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Rumor — AT&T Losing iPhone Exclusivity Next Week
MojoKid writes "An inside source over at HotHardware reports that AT&T will lose their iPhone exclusivity on 1/27, coincident with Apple's upcoming press event next week, though it's not yet clear what other carriers will be stepping in to pick up the iPhone. For anyone who has followed the saga, you may notice that you haven't seen AT&T fighting to extend their original exclusive agreement as of late. In fact, they have spent most of their time fighting Verizon's negative ad campaigns. This may not be all that surprising. Inside of AT&T, word is that the iPhone is causing more trouble than ever before. On some level, having the iPhone is hurting AT&T's image. Do you remember hearing about AT&T's 'horrible network' before the iPhone? The iPhone itself doesn't really handle the switch from 3G to EDGE very gracefully, so calls that are in-progress tend to fail whenever 3G connections aren't optimal and the phone attempts to step down to EDGE. It seems that AT&T may finally be tired of taking the heat."
"iPhone, you phone, we all phone for iPhone"
Well, maybe before AT&T's woes.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
...a fair amount of other countries already have multiple carriers for the iPhone. Let's hope this stirs up some competition.
Of course I didn't RTFA.
If Verizon gets the iPhone, I'll be there next week.
That's GSM's fault, not the phone's.
I work in NYC and have the choice between Verizon and ATT for my "company" phone service. I use the data features fairly frequently and when our group of 40-50 folks sits down and chats (we're pretty equally divided between ATT and Verizon users) it seems to me that ATT data service is usually faster and more reliable. Of the people who are most vocal about their Verizon support there, they seem to be mostly voice users and only casual data users.
As far as the iPhone goes, I'd MUCH rather have a Nexus One if I was in the market for a fancy smart phone.
exactly. although i would really like to see them disband the whole "tying certain phone to certain carriers" bs. just make everyone pay for the phone and have them choose whatever service. as for service, now if they could all just start offering unlimited plans at a decent rate (less than $50/month).
...
My AT&T contract is up on July 12th. I tell you, I am going to have a very difficult decision on that date if a Verizon version of the iPhone hasn't been announced or released by then. While I love my iPhone, the AT&T service is just not reliable at all in my experience in New Hampshire, especially if you get out of the major cities. You pretty much have to be in a deep cave to not have a Verizon cell phone signal here.
My thinking is if there is no sign of a Verizon version of the iPhone by July 12th when my contract is up, I may very well switch to a Nexus One or Droid. It is sure going to be tempting.
Howdy, I worked with AT&T/Cingular right at the release and that is when "it" happened. From what I was told, AT&T reduced the range of their network to make data transmission more "reliable" for the iPhone, and in so doing, they pissed off a number of end users. We had so many complaints from people about their service no longer working in their homes, work, etc. I was there for the switch to 3G in OH and though the service is fast, the batteries don't last (heh); my phone(s) would be dead with very limited surfing. Oh well, maybe AT&T will rebrand again - back to Cingular and become completely Open Source... and monkeys might flight out of my butt. Bye iPhone.
In Soviet Russia, road forks you!
The iPhone itself doesn't really handle the switch from 3G to EDGE very gracefully, so calls that are in-progress tend to fail whenever 3G connections aren't optimal and the phone attempts to step down to EDGE.
Given that carriers test phones on networks, it would not be the least surprising to learn that AT&T technical staff evaluated the iPhone (or already had experience with the 'modem' it uses), told management about the problems, and management decided what was more important was the couple of years of revenue from people who wanted iPhones regardless of the network.
I've been a customer of AT&T since the "AT&T wireless" days (pre AT&T, pre "cingular", etc.) and I can count the number of dropped calls on one hand. I currently have an original iPhone, jailbroken/unlocked, on a very old AT&T Wireless account. $30/month for a regional plan = awesome (as is having one device to surf the web where I can get Wifi, play games, listen to music, and make phone calls.)
Living in New England, I also haven't heard many complaints from 3G iPhone users. Seems to be mostly NYC where people are screaming (yes kids, NY and NYC are not "New England.")
Please help metamoderate.
AT&T hates the iPhone now? Why?
Perhaps because they know Apple does not intend to renew its contract with AT&T?
Have you actually tried both?
Android's fine for geeks who don't like fuild usability, but it'll take another generation or two for Android to catch up.
Because they are the only company to carry it, and it's such a data hog, it's largely to blame for AT&T's network troubles. We don't remember hearing about AT&T's "horrible network" before the iPhone--do you?
Doesn't matter. AT&T made an agreement with Apple, they made contracts with users - really one sided contracts - to handle this. To blame a product and consumers for AT&T's short sightedness, mismanagement, and desire to squeeze every last penny out of their subscribers and their system is ridiculous.
AT&T got the business and they didn't live up to their end of the bargain.
Period.
Man you are dumb.
For one the market share for iPhones is still much much larger then all the Android based phones out there. It is second only to RIM Blackberries.
Most mobile application/web development is primarily tested for the iPhone So right now iPhone as more apps.
The iPhone is the standard that all the other phones need to set the bar against.
It isn't about features or technology it is about mindset. Right now the iPhone is still the winner (next year who knows bur right now they are the winner)
AT&T got a lot of new customers just because people wanted the phone... For the most case this is opposite... People search for the plan they want and get the phone. If AT&T looses iPhone exclusivity it would really heart them. Well lets go with the other ones instead they may have better coverage or faster network. Spring G4 iPhone would be cool. Perhaps Verizon my have a cheaper Service. Perhaps t-mobile will allow tethering.
Android is still second fiddle... I for one like to see it grow and give apple a good run for its money however you have to be an idiot to think the iPhone is irrelevant.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
So why didn't you wait till next week to publish a verified fact?
I wonder if it'll finally be possible to get an unlocked iPhone(in USA) without paying $600+ for it now.
Have you tried the HTC phones with the sense UI (which, by the way, has multitouch)?
Serious question.
It is absolutely brilliant. I was certain that it would be some trashy vendor attempt at being unique, to be quickly disabled, however it is actually extremely decent.
The "Android is a geek's phone" meme is baseless. It is only true from the perspective of "if by geek we mean people who aren't just mindlessly following the crowd".
Was thinking the same.
This bit from the post: he iPhone itself doesn't really handle the switch from 3G to EDGE very gracefully, so calls that are in-progress tend to fail whenever 3G connections aren't optimal and the phone attempts to step down to EDGE. It seems that AT&T may finally be tired of taking the heat.
That is enough for me to delay my purchase until I see something really good.
Home of The Suki Series
My fiance works for an AT&T reseller and just verified that they are losing exclusivity this week.
It isn't about features or technology it is about mindset.
Oh how right you are about that. However, the point you bring up in you post directly runs opposite of the point that you are trying to make.
The biggest thing about cell phones is that most people change out phones every two to three years. The iPhone is no different. I've seen many of friends ditch the iPhone after their contract was up. It's no different than when I ditched my LG last year as soon as my contract was up. People's "mindset" as you would call it is to junk the phone they've got every time their contract is up. iPhone is no different. It's not about apps or technical merit. It's about advertising. Right now Apple has got word of mouth on their side and Google is doing its best with their TV ads to counter that. AT&T dropping the exclusive part of iPhone sounds like Apple try to make their phone more like the Driod. Everywhere. Beside, the iPhone has shown how shit the AT&T network is and AT&T is fighting an uphill battle with that. So, yeah I think the honeymoon between AT&T and Apple is over, burned, and now they are tossing bricks at each other. Soon we may see them fighting over custody of the kids but who knows?
So, I would not say that Apple has a better phone because of apps, or what have you. They just have better marketing. Also, most apps are tested for the iPhone because it has the most market share at the current time, but some, it is a slow growing trend, commercial API for cellular devices are becoming cross API. Think of it like the toolkits that people like EA use to code for PS3 and XBOX 360 at the same time. Eventually that's exactly what we will see in the mobile market. At that point it is pretty moot about the apps issue and who is building what for what.
When it come to cellphones be damned the technical merit. Most people buy whatever looks cool on the TV. You'd be an idiot to think otherwise.
In theory, you could take an AT&T iPhone to T-mobile, as they are also based on GSM, but I remember a couple weeks ago when the Nexus One launched, people pointing out that AT&T and T-Mo use different frequency bands for their 3G service, and so the Nexus One could only be used on AT&T with the slower 2G data channel. I'm guessing the same issue would be in play here, going the other way? That is, you could use an iPhone on T-Mo, but you'd not be able to get 3G data speeds?
Admittedly, it is easier to design a simple fluid interface when you can only run one application at a time. It removes one level of complication that most of the other smartphones need to deal with.
I have a Droid on Verizon and my girlfriend just got an iPhone on at&t. Nearly all my friends have iPhones and honestly I've always wanted one. However I didn't want to carry two att phones, as my work provides me a phone. So I've stuck with alltel/verizon for my personal phone. As a self proclaimed nerd I really enjoy what I can do on my android device and I see a ton of potential in the future but as far as end to end experience goes, the iPhone's interface is a lot cleaner/smoother. As far as apps go on android I've found just about everything I want as far as apps go. Even most of the ones my friends have on iPhone. One thing I really like about my droid is the quality of the calls both on speaker and on the hand set. Sounds really nerdy but I have a friend who works for a bank and he also has a droid, before he got it if he was in his server room on the phone I could hear the noise from all the servers and other equipment...Not with his droid, it sounded DEAD quiet. I kept asking him if he was really in the server room and he kept laughing at me saying he was. I like at&t and the iphone, I also like android and verizon. When it came down to it for me I wanted something new, not what everyone else had.
You sure can smell it can't you? The smell of troll bait in the morning ...
/. as many have pointed out ... but most of the replies are trolls who feel it's their duty to point out how much the iPhone sucks, the users are idiots, or if only it ran Linux wouldn't the world be a whole lot better?
The iPhone is fine, so fine it's sold 10 million units. It works just fine.
Before the iPhone we had the choice between crap and crappy and a decent RIM device. Please don't tell me about your Treo.
After the iPhone we have a few choices of very good, very smart devices.
The post is a rumor which doesn't suit
I can't wait for the announcement to see what new device or new services are potentially opened up. I don't care to prognosticate but it'd be nice to have open carrier choices among all handsets -- but this has never really been the case. Thanks to innovation and a little more pressure from Google openly stating this as their goal it may happen. Just like DRM and iTunes where so many needed to blame Apple, call the service shit, call the device shit, it's happening with ATT, carrier lock-in, and the iPhone.
Troll bait hoo-ha-ha!
Maybe due to the US-implementation of GSM, but GSM can handle this just fine.
You don't see this problem in Europe.
The iPhone launched in the UK as exclusive to the O2 network. In the last few months it's become available on two of the other four biggest networks Vodafone and Orange (who have announced that they will merge with the other big four, T-Mobile). The pricing and plan are practically identical.
To get the iPhone, I would need to sign up for a VERY expensive and long term contract. There is no way I'm spending a thousand dollars a year for a friggin phone. To get the Nexus One I can buy a prepaid sim from T-mobile and pay $100/year, using WiFi for network connectivity. This price advantage alone is enough to give the Nexus One an enormously larger market than the iPhone.
I have an iPhone and it's OK in the Boston area, but I'm fairly often in central New Hampshire, and AT&T sucks big time. A few months ago, I had to take my wife to the emergency room, and wait for several hours. Inside the Laconia hospital, my iPhone signal was zero, zippo, nada. My wife's Verizon phone had a 4-bar signal strength. While both AT&T and Verizon have dead zones, AT&T's seem to be much more prevalent.
I laugh when I see AT&T's claims of having the "fastest" network. It's not very fast when you have NO SIGNAL AT ALL!
I believe Telstra in Australia has both 3G and EDGE or something very similar and i've never had a dropped call on any of my 3 different gen iphones.. (granted the first went from edge to 2g but still). I dont think its an iphone specific problem and i think Telstra coverage (which is nigh on perfect) here might be just a tad better than AT&T from what i've read on the intertoobs.
You definitely could have been more eloquent with that, but I agree.
Anyway, as of the Nexus One, Android has definitely caught up to the iPhone in terms of usability.
The whole point of this is not everyone wants to pay $500 for some phone. It wasn't that long ago that even low end phones would have been several hundred dollars without a contract that is how we got into this.
Apple should start selling iPhones optionally unlocked, at a higher price if need be. People will STILL queue up to buy it, that's how popular it has become. Those who may have shunned it because of AT&T and who also couldn't be bothered with the jailbreak hassles would return to buy it.
And they have no hope in hell of significantly penetrating other more open markets(like mine, India where we've long since been accustomed to buying our phones at full price independent of any operator restrictions) unless they do so.
"..One hosts to look them up, one DNS to find them, and in the darkness BIND them."
"Most mobile application/web development is primarily tested for the iPhone So right now iPhone as more apps. The iPhone is the standard that all the other phones need to set the bar against." But at the end of the day, its still a phone, and if you don't have reliable service, what good is everything else?
I have wondered if ATT is a victim of their own success with 3G congestion. They largely sold the iPhone on the merits of all the cool data features and these users consume a lot of wireless data. 3G networks aren't designed to handle many concurrent heavy users. So I wonder, if Verizon gets the iPhone and folks make the switch, will the situation just naturally improve for ATT? Will Verizon suddenly feel the pain of all those heavy users?
I don t hear about this nonsens.
My contract is set to renew, and I wanted to get a new iphone 3gs, and the ATT site doesn't even offer the iphone as an option.
I suspect that not only did they lose exclusivity, they may not even be worthy of distributing iphones anymore.
I am open source, and Linux baby!
When your friends dumped their iPhones (and perhaps the ATT contract), what hardware/carrier did they switch to..and why, besides the "cool" factor like you were mentioning. There must be at least some technical specification thought go into their next phone purchase, even if it is secondary to new and shiny.
Just wondering, especially on the handset switch, I do prepay only, no more long term contracts, I don't want to feed that particular telco business model, for the same reason I stick to OTA TV broadcasts and won't go to satellite (or cable, which I can't get anyway). Just don't need nor want more long term contractural debt. I can either pay for something right then, or not interested.
Another point which I rarely hear about in discussions of the iPhone is how it is fundamentally marketed differently. We have had an iPhone for many years now. It hasn't been the exact same hardware this whole time, but it has been an "iPhone" the whole time. Now think about other mobile phones. Ask someone what phone they have and it is either "LG", "Motorola", etc. Mobile phone models change so often than no one can remember what model they have currently, because there is a good chance that you can't even buy the model anymore. Apple has won the marketing game because by keeping the same name, they don't have to scrap all of their previous marketing whenever the model changes.
I have the option to switch from my blackberry to the iphone... the only thing holding me back is whether or not a new one will be announced next week... Would you buy now or wait? If the rumors are true, OLED, 5MP camera, flash but the ship date wasn't until June would you wait or just get it now?
"Thanks to the remote control I have the attention span of a gerbil."
> The iPhone itself doesn't really handle the switch from 3G to EDGE very gracefully, so calls that are in-progress tend to fail whenever 3G connections aren't optimal and the phone attempts to step down to EDGE.
since the voice and data decks are separate; the voice isn't *going* over the data connection, so a roam there shouldn't affect a voice call.
Now, that doesn't mean that it's not having *other* problems roaming from cell to cell; I just don't expect that to be the cause.
The iPhone launched in the UK as exclusive to the O2 network. In the last few months it's become available on two of the other four biggest networks Vodafone and Orange (who have announced that they will merge with the other big four, T-Mobile). The pricing and plan are practically identical.
So buy a second hand phone on ebay, unlock it and stick a PAYG SIM in it (or whatever contract works for you)...
http://blog.nexusuk.org
Time to buy Apple and short AT&T.
Don't you guys have some sort of deal where you just have a SIM and a call plan of some kind? I thought most countries did. That way, you can buy whetever phone suits your needs. You can't buy a Rolls-Royce for the price of a Morris Minor, but if you only use a phone to make calls and send SMSs, then you can get a phone for about $20 pretty easily.
If you need every bell and whistle under the sun, and expect the device to be shiny and groovy, then expect to pay more. Simple.
"you may notice that you haven't seen AT&T fighting to extend their original exclusive agreement..."
When did we EVER see AT&T fighting to have or to keep the iPhone?
"We don't remember hearing about AT&T's "horrible network" before the iPhone--do you?"
YES, I do. AT&T uses the world standard GSM technology. GSM was rolled out much more slowly and less uniformly in the USA than was Verizon's CDMA. However, for years, both Verizon's and AT&T's networks used to suck. In January 2007, when the iPhone was introduced, people were already complaining about AT&T. And if the shoe had been on the other foot, they would have been complaining about Verizon instead.
Because people would rather have the instant gratification right now and make future self suffer by paying $700 for the same device spread over a couple of years. No matter how you swing it, it is cheaper to buy your phone outright. In the early 1990's all phones were cutting edge and expensive, these days companies can literally sell phones for $15 and still make some profit.
I live in the Philippines (Australian, not that this matters) I pay $25 USD per month (Smart) for completely unlimited data with tethering. No caps. My N97 cost about $520 USD outright. 200 kilobytes per second downloads are not uncommon, though perhaps not as regular as I'd like either. You can buy an unlocked iPhone here for about the same price. If you don't quite want cutting edge, then you can opt for stuff a little older - the Nokia 5800 costs about $270 and does practically everything the N97 does. I think the only difference is the lack of an FM transmitter.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I was merely making an observation regarding how Apple are evidently keeping such tight control over the iPhone that there is no room for the networks to compete on pricing.
I'm aware of the alternative options of acquiring an iPhone, but my desire to own one is negligible. You can buy one with a PAYG SIM legitimately on Tesco Mobile.
That was very charitable of you. I often wonder what it is about this forum that brings out the most juvenile attitude in posters. Maybe it's simply the fact that he's a pre-pubescent juvenile.
I live in Atlanta, where AT&T Wireless' headquarters is located. Before it was AT&T, it was Cingular -- and it was always terrible.
I have a friend who took a picture of him holding an AT&T branded phone in front of AT&T's headquarters. No bars. His friend with Verizon, and his other friend with Spring, held their phones. Full bars.
This was before the iPhone.
The iPhone is not the cause of AT&T's poor network, The iPhone exposed the poor network.
Nevertheless, while living in England my wife and I owned iPhones on O2's network. I will say I had a much better time running it in EDGE mode than 3G, so I would not be surprised if the transition between 3G and EDGE was a problem. (It always seemed to have more problems when I would dip in-and-out of 3G coverage. This was the 3G phone.)
Still, while I am excited about the iPhone coming to other networks, I'm no fool. The iPhone will expose other networks' flaws. The only question is whether those flaws are as bad as AT&T's.
"Regress towards the mean".
AT&T is in the mindshare chart because of the iPhone. I went from T-Mobile and zero service, to Sprint with terrible service, on a brick phone that did nothing interesting and still clunked the battery.
I wanted to be part of the GSM theme, even though I knew Verizon was reputed to be slightly better service in my area.
So I switched to AT&T and the iPhone. My service went from "Terrible" to "Yucky". I decided that my usage habits for phones were opposite than the desktop, so I with with the current "game changer".
So to reverse my above reasoning, someone will have to uncork something new and exciting.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
I had a Motorola phone on Verizon that was crippled when compared to the same phone on other networks. It couldn't play non-Verizon mp3s unless you hacked it, it could use non-Verizon ring tones unless you hacked it, wouldn't sync contacts unless you hacked it. I hate to think what they'd do to the iPhone.
I haven't seen much talk about this, but it seems pretty potentially ground shaking to me that they could use something like this GSM/CDMA chip that has been in testing since 1998. Even though some articles suggest availability of the Qualcomm chip wont be until 2011, do any of you think this shines light on the possibility of Apple pulling something like this off early?
No one in the US (except for TMobile customers?) gets a discount on the actual service if they buy their phone outright. From recent postings on other cell phone threads - and my own personal experience with ATT - once your "contract" is up, where the subsidy should disappear... it doesn't. We get to pay the same rates as if we were still subsidizing a phone.
Karnal
I have run over 10 apps in the background on my iPhone (jailbroken of course) and it lost not a single iota of its smooth fluid handling.
It's easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
OK, I know I am not the typical slashdot cellphone user, I keep a phone for 4-7 years and have been with T-Mo since voicestream days. I have a moto razr version 2 and transfer music all the time to it from the usb connection. Do phone companies really restrict this simple capability?
Why do you think that anytime you walk into an at&t store, you can't go 3 feet without running into something associated with the iPhone? AT&T is trying to get as many customers (suckers) to opt for a long term contract, because they know there will be a hoard of people going to t-mobile or whoever else sells the iphone.
replying to correct mod
"Have you tried the HTC phones with the sense UI (which, by the way, has multitouch)?"
Yes, I have an HTC with the sense UI - it's an incredibly lackluster interface, and it's only skin deep, all the guts of the thing are still WinMobile trash. You don't know what you're talking about.
I have never, ever had this problem on my iPhone, and I live in an area of the UK with mixed 3G and Edge/2G coverage - my house is in an area with no 3G, and driving a couple of miles down the road gets you into the 3G zone due to the town nearby. I have never had an issue with dropped calls due to going in and out of 3G coverage.
Whether this is due to the network (I am on O2 in the UK), or the phone I am not certain.
Put it this way, that sentence makes an assertion about what the iPhone does when it tried to fall back to Edge. My own experience is different. The truth is therefore likely somewhere in between, and the call issue may just be related to AT&T and may affect android phones in the same way.
I also think that the "who cares?" post is a little bit naive - clearly a lot of people *do* care, since they are selling iPhones hand over fist. I welcome the introduction of the Android phones - more competition will drive the market (hopefully) to be better for all consumers, but outside of the most hardcore of geeks who have some sort of axe to grind about Apple, the iPhone is still a long way from a "who cares?" device. Proponents of Android that treat the competition that way would do well to be careful (and vice versa - Droid-based phones are going to offer some serious competition to iPhone).
WebOS phones (Pre, Pre +, Pixi, Pixi +) are designed around multitasking.
My Sprint Pre can run around 10 apps simultaneously without batting an eye. It starts to slow as I hit the 11th app and maxes out at around 13 apps.
The new Pre Plus (Verizon) has more RAM and can handle about 50 apps max, around 30 - 40 smoothly.
Android has limited multitasking that isn't terribly intuitive to use, and even the iPhone3Gs can only multitask with Apple apps.
Personally I just don't get the sudden obsession among /. readers with the Android. It's really not THAT good of a phone OS. It's doesn't have full multitasking, there are MASSIVE versioning problems with it (HOW many different iterations of the OS are out there now? 10? MORE?) and it's generally difficult to develop for. About the only things it has going for it are that it has been put into some nice handsets, and it's semi-open source.
WebOS is head and shoulders better than Android. It multitasks better, has more core features, is easier to develop for, and is smoother and easier to use, even on the 1.0 handsets with less RAM.
Yet all I hear on /. is "iPhone, Android, iPhone, Android" ALL FRACKING DAY LONG. It's like WebOS isn't even on your radar, despite being better in almost every conceivable way to BOTH the Android OS and the iPhone OS.
I just don't get it.
Official Heretic from the "Church of Global Warming". Proven right thanks to whistle blowers. AGW = Flat Earth Theory
The other providers have Android, which is probably harder on the network than the iPhone since everything is tied into Google and other providers.
Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
Actually, I'm not even sure this counts as a rumor. I mean jeez, somebody's speculation about what somebody else didn't say?
Why is it that "we have been led to believe by an inside source" gets the same kind of headline for Apple as hard news about any other company? Rhetorical question: we all know it's because of the fanboy culture that surrounds all things Apple.
Apple has its good points (and its bad ones), but this endless "What did Bradgalina have for breakfast" tone really gets old.
As an owner of three blackberry devices before the iPhone came out, my reason for not complaining about the network was twofold...
1) Blackberry devices weren't good enough to be anything better than the bottleneck. They didn't do video, streaming audio, and until the 8830, couldn't even render a fucking <table>.
2) I was too busy complaining about Blackberry itself with its terrible speed problems, UI problems and interface inconsistencies. (Tip to the 8830 users: you can set the side button to go to the app switcher, which can function as a "get me the fuck out of this back-button-loop" button.)
....The iPhone itself doesn't really handle the switch from 3G to EDGE very gracefully, so calls that are in-progress tend to fail whenever 3G connections aren't optimal and the phone attempts to step down to EDGE..
Seriously, this makes no sense at all.
Your voice connection is not over IP, thus EDGE has nothing to go with it. InterRat handovers (3G - 2G) are not an easy thing to do. All phones implement this in more or less the same way. That way would be what the core spec says!
EDGE is only for data. Just like GPRS.
It's obviously related to signal strength, the capacity of the network or how the handovers from one tower to another are handled. It always surprises me how people think the size of the surrounding nation affects things like broadband availability and cell phone coverage. Don't give your carriers a free license to suck based on some misplaced nationalistic pride.
When starting on 3G and moving out of 3G coverage area, it will try to keep a signal by shifting to a less optimal signal.
However, it may not work the same in the opposite direction. If it starts a call on Edge/2G and moves into an area where both 3G and Edge are available that it might *not* try to switch to the better service, but instead stay with what it's currently on.
This is, of course, just a guess, but it would explain the behavior.
Everything I need to know I learned by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Actually, Tmobile's new unlimited plans do provide a break to those who pay up front. Their plans are $10/mo more with a subsidized phone with a 2 year contract compared to paying for the phone and having a month-to-month plan. If you look at their phones and the amount of the downpayment with a subsidized plan, it's clearly a better deal to just buy the phone and go MTM.
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
Would there have been an Android phone if there wasn't an iPhone?
it'll take another generation or two for Android to catch up
I suspect Apple and the iPhone won't be just standing still while that happens....
Q: What does the "B." in Benoit B. Mandelbrot stand for? A: Benoit B. Mandelbrot
I should say that since I have owned the phone I have never experienced the call dropping, regardless of whether I start in a 3G area, or an Edge one or vice versa. The fact that I live right on the fringe of a 3G area would suggest that I'd be constantly plagued by the problem if it happened. I think it is an issue with At&T if the problem is so apparent in the US, or a bad interaction between AT&T and the iPhone if it only occurs on the iPhone there - it really doesn't seem to be an issue in the UK.
NEWS FLASH: New England is a sparsely populated area, and EVERY carrier has about the same coverage- many of them are on the same fucking physical tower. Also, if you place your phone in a cradle or use a bluetooth handset and put the phone on the seat or the center armrest, it shields it quite a bit from the car. There are also car windshield heaters and aftermarket tint that is murder on RF.
Do what my father did: buy an RF amplifier/booster with a rooftop antenna. It works great with any phone- there is a transceiver that faces the backplate of the phone. As long as I could get ANY signal without it, putting the iPhone in the cradle gave me almost 5 bars- and in areas where there was no service, I'd often get plenty to make a phone call. In both cases, crystal-clear calls with no cutouts in the conversation, instant reception of text messages, etc.
Please help metamoderate.
Hear hear (and it was true when the first Apple phone first came out, as there's long been plenty of other phones from bigger companies in the market, such as Nokia, LG, Samsung, Motorola, RIM).
Imagine if we got a story every single time that one model of phone appeared on one particular network! There'd be no end of stories. No, this clearly isn't newsworthy.
Remember that story when an Iphone was the number one phone, for one particular month, in one particular company (right after that model had been released)? If you think about it, it's a ludicrous premise for a story - there's going to be a number one every month, for every country.
And indeed, as I predicted out at the time, we've never had a story since then telling us what the number one phone is in that country anymore, or indeed, any other country.
What is this? News for nerds? Or Random Trivia About The Iphone? Still, I guess we should be glad we've managed to go a whole day about the istale vaporware rumours.
Your wireless account has nothing to do with network quality. Secondly, you have illegally voided your contract, ruling you out from any legitimate apples to apples comparison.
Yeah, that's it, I meant that my account affected network quality and I'm a complete moron, hey did you know that planes fly because angels push up on the wings?
Or I could have been saying that, gosh, I've been a customer for almost A FUCKING DECADE and haven't noticed any major problems compared to all the emotechtards that bought iPhones and expect to magically be able to place (and continue) a telephone call anywhere on the planet.
So you're saying that between New England and NYC, your user report has been that more people that you have seen have been complaining in NYC than New England. Again, not a great statistical analysis which networks truly need.
http://www.google.com/search?q=NYC+iphone
Idiot.
Please help metamoderate.
For one the market share for iPhones is still much much larger then all the Android based phones out there. It is second only to RIM Blackberries. ... Android is still second fiddle...
And RIM is second only to Motorola.
And Motorola are second to only a few companies like LG and Samsung.
And all of them, well they're second only to Nokia.
So yeah, Apple are only second place, second after almost everyone else in the market. But they are ahead of Google at least.
Right now the iPhone is still the winner
*splutter*
Do you seriously believe the mobile phone market consists of just RIM, Apple and Google? I'd assume this was a joke, except I repeatedly see posters under this delusion here - this used to be a place for geeks, now it's overrun by people who have less clue about the tech market than ever a random person on the street.
however you have to be an idiot
Quoted for the irony. Now go up and read some factual market share data on phones.
Why do people insist this is carrier specific? I had a friend who had Verizon and lived in NH. When he was driving he'd regularly say "I'm going to lose you in the next minute or so." Sure enough, bam, gone. And Verizon supposedly has awesome coverage.
NEWS FLASH: New England is a sparsely populated area, and EVERY carrier has about the same coverage- many of them are on the same fucking physical tower. Also, if you place your phone in a cradle or use a bluetooth handset and put the phone on the seat or the center armrest, it shields it quite a bit from the car. There are also car windshield heaters and aftermarket tint that is murder on RF.
Do what my father did: buy an RF amplifier/booster with a rooftop antenna. It works great with any phone- there is a transceiver that faces the backplate of the phone. As long as I could get ANY signal without it, putting the iPhone in the cradle gave me almost 5 bars- and in areas where there was no service, I'd often get plenty to make a phone call. In both cases, crystal-clear calls with no cutouts in the conversation, instant reception of text messages, etc.
I wish I had mod points to give you a 5 Insightful. The fact of the matter is you sound around my age [40] and grew up with Radio Shack, Frys and other electronic places that once held Hamm Radios and much more to adapt your products when the retail product wasn't adequate. Today's kid thinks all that crap comes in a pocket size case as if it's going to pick up signals from China.
My 5800 is fine for anyone. And it took Apple generations to catch up, even compared with bog standard phones from years earlier (copy/paste, Java, MMS, video, multitasking, running 3rd party applications without the company's permission, tethering - in fact, I believe shockingly they're still playing catchup on some of these things).
Not a single one has done any running while they were in the background. The only exceptions to this are the phone and iPod "apps", which allow for running in the background. Otherwise, your apps all go into a sort of sleep mode every time you change to another one, and resume when they are reopened.
Rumors about AT&T losing it's iPhone exclusivity have been circulating for a couple of years now and still, if you want an iPhone, you have to sign up with AT&T. Since Apple has repeatedly said that they have no interest in building a phone that will operate on the soon-to-be-obsolete CDMA networks and it will be at least two more years before any other U.S. carrier will roll out a next generation LTE network, AT&T will retain it's U.S. exclusivity by default.
These rumors could very well be FUD circulated by some other carrier (Verizon) in an attempt to cause people considering switching to AT&T for an iPhone to wait just a little bit longer.
This ain't rocket surgery.
Not a single one has done any running while they were in the background. The only exceptions to this are the phone and iPod "apps", which allow for running in the background.
Don't look now, but you just contradicted yourself. Stating absolutely that "not a single one has done any running while they were in the background" does not allow for exceptions.
I don't have an iPhone - I have an iPod Touch - but I will often start to load mail, then go and do something else while the new messages are loading (the wifi on our trains is lousy). The iPod beeps once all the new messages (okay, headers - it's IMAP) have been downloaded.
#DeleteChrome
Android's fine for geeks who don't like fuild usability, but it'll take another generation or two for Android to catch up.
There's this running joke that geeks hate ease of use; that it's an anathema to the technical-minded ego or eliminates the gate that kept the non-technical riff-raff out of the technician's playground / club. However, I can't think of too many geeks that really do hate ease of use per se. There's aggravation when ease of use features eliminate control or otherwise get in the way of doing something. But in itself, a slick design is usually appreciated. I would challenge you to find someone who's looked at an iPhone and complained that it's too easy to use or the interface is too fluid.
What I do see is a differing weight scale assigned to the importance of the interface. I, myself, don't care if the iPhone is more fluid or not. I find the Android environment to be slick in it's own right. If it's not as fluid as the iPhone, then so be it (I've never sat down with the devices side-by-side so I don't have an opinion on the accuracy of this claim). I don't find that as important as some of the other things you find in the Android environment. And so my personal weight scale puts Android devices in general far above the iPhone. YMMV.
On a somewhat related note - usability has often been introduced as some holy grail of market domination. But it isn't. Apple fans always grated at Wintel domination despite their choice's superior interface (and having never owned a Mac, I was surprised to find something to these claims when I was forced to fix the darned things years ago). Wintel owned a market despite the supposedly glaring inferiority. Ironically, you now have Windows fans claiming domination on the same point. The two interesting things here is that the geeks that would launch impassioned tirades about operating systems would include usability in their arguments despite the contrary stereotype and that actual market history demonstrates that there are plenty of other factors involved.
You suck at math.
The G1 with a 2 year plan is $50 down (initially, it was $200, but the phone cost $550 then, as prices have dropped, so has the prepayment). Add in the 10 bucks a month for 2 years and the total is 290 (200 + 10*24). Buying the G1 without subsidy is between $400 (from t-mobile) and $470 (amazon). Whoops, its at least $100 cheaper (on the phone itself) if you don't buy the phone outright.
I have run over 10 apps in the background on my iPhone (jailbroken of course)
And for those of us who *don't* want to void our warranty and potentially fuck over the phone...
If you're going to hack one device and then compare it to another that isn't hacked, you might as well start comparing a factory-bought Chevy truck with a Ford truck that you mounted a fully-functional warp drive on. There's no point to it.
Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
Finland, for example, has two times lower population density than the US. And they beat you handily when it comes to coverage.
So, also, I can imagine one carrier can easily be better than the rest, if the generally cut corners as much as they can get away with.
One that hath name thou can not otter
My iPhone is tight, I don't want AT&T to make it loose.
If I lose it I will get another.
I can confirm this. I was winter backpacking with my father last weekend in the White Mountains of NH. Normally, with AT&T, I get no cellphone reception whatsoever there (with the one odd occurrence of 5 bars near Wildcat-- but I suspect that both Mt. Washington and Wildcat have antennas on them), so upon reaching the parking spot in Franconia Notch and confirming that I had no signal, I just left the phone in my Jeep. However, that night at our campsite at Kinsman Pond, my father realized that he had forgotten to leave his phone in the car. For fun, he flipped it on, and, hey-- three bars! My mom was treated to a MMS picture of a deep woods winter wonderland. My dad has Verizon.
When you consider that the trees around us were covered in nearly a foot of ice and snow, and we were sleeping in a shelter with several feet of snow on top of it, we really were in a cave. Amazing.
No matter how you swing it, it is cheaper to buy your phone outright.
No it's not. If I want an iPhone, and I want to use it completely like an iPhone, I have to use AT&T and pay for their iPhone plan. This is true whether I buy their subsidized iPhone, or buy an unlocked one and just sign up with it on AT&T without a contract (if that's even an option). And as I understand it, unlimited data is actually cheaper on the iPhone than on other phones (at least, at the time of the launch) due to the fact that the iPhone really needs it and Apple demanded it.
What's more, I could just buy the iPhone, buyout my contract immediately, and still come out spending less than an unsubsidized iPhone. But then I'll still have to buy the service, which costs the same either way.
Unless I'm happy just using some generic plan, which I'm not. That's why I bought the iPhone in the first place. If I wanted generic, I'd just have a simple phone and an iPod touch.
Actually, Tmobile's new unlimited plans do provide a break to those who pay up front. Their plans are $10/mo more with a subsidized phone with a 2 year contract compared to paying for the phone and having a month-to-month plan. If you look at their phones and the amount of the downpayment with a subsidized plan, it's clearly a better deal to just buy the phone and go MTM.
Of course this is T-Mobile, not AT&T, so no iPhone, but using the same math on AT&T, the iPhone is subsidized for $400. $10/month x 2 years is only $240.
These are orthogonal things.
Carriers to not need exclusive access to a handset in order to subsidize it. For example, the Motorola RAZR phones were available on all US carriers [in various versions, with the OS crippled in various ways], and all the carriers provided subsidizes for them.
You would still see carrier subsidizes with customer contracts for iPhones if every carrier [with a compatible network] could sell them.
In all likelyhood, the one thing you would see in this case is lower prices, because that's what they would have to compete on. Now, AT&T can charge higher monthly fee's because the iPhone is a desirable phone that nobody else in the US can offer.
I'd like the FCC to step in and:
1) require handsets to be unlocked either when it is paid for in full OR once the subsidy period for the handset has passed. Right now, even if you have completed your 2 year contract for the original iPhone, AT&T and Apple both refuse to unlock it and if you resell it, the next person has to sign a new 2 year contract with AT&T as if they have to pay off the subsidy on it again.
2) require carriers to have a 'subsidy' line item, indicating how much you are paying for the handset each month, and how much 'subsidy' is remaining. If you wish to break your contract early, you only need to pay the remaining subsidy amount.
3) only permit carrier exclusivity for a very short period of time, like say only a few months, certainly less than six months. Not like the current exclusivity period for the iPhone line.
Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
Part of the problem is that when other companies have something big to announce, they shout it from the rooftops months in advance. (see: Microsoft) News about Apple, by contrast, has to be gathered from elsewhere, sometimes by uncooperative means, like mining access logs and scrutinizing parts orders.
Add to this the usual collection of attention-mongers and black-hats trying to get a good laugh, and the end result is what the phrase "media circus" was invented to describe.
No mod points, or they would be yours.. Android phones are not geek phones.. they are not difficult to use.. (mine came without a manual, and I haven't needed one).. If there is a person on the planet who is intimidated by an Android phones UI, they are going to have the same problem with an iPhone, and probably any cell phone in general.
waiting for ad.doubleclick.net
My ATT / Blackberry Bold actually drops a call every single time I walk into work and move from a 3G network to a 2G one. Pretty annoying.
that everybody had given up on them. Used to be the 'leader' by a long shot - My first phone was a 6110i (I think). Then a 8210 - "so so small". 6310 - "Indestructible and a battery that lasted forever". Then it all went a bit wrong.. the Nokia UI aged. I switched to Sony Ericsson (T28, P800, K800 - maybe some others I've forgotten about) and then to HTC windows devices right up until my current Nexus One. I was a 'Nokia person' and then other companies took the lead. For a while I could ignore the features, I 'liked Nokia' - but eventually I took the plunge and jumped ship. Load of other people I knew remained Nokia people for longer - e.g. my Mum and Dad. Eventually it reached the point when I didn't know anybody who actually went to look for a new phone with 'Nokia' anywhere on the requirement list (OK, they still have one of my sisters).
N900 is lovely (ish) - the problem is that the market they're trying to sell it to isn't even thinking about Nokia any more. Majority split between Blackberry/IPhone. Minority with bit more geekery in their pocket are currently deciding between a re-skinned WinMo (e.g. HD2) or Android (Nexus1, Droid).
There are still a large number of people wanting Nokias, the problem is that the people they've left themselves with just want a phone that makes calls. N900 is lovely, just I can't think of a single Nokia in the last 5+ years I've even considered purchasing. If anything the blind loyalty of the die-hards and 'premium' they've charged for their handsets has tainted the brand. I've had many conversations over the years trying to convince people to try some new brand when I've been asked for advice and the Nokia love has driven me up the wall. No idea how to illustrate this further, but I guess it's like your aged relative continuously buying the same brand of 'previously good' car, merely on the name and ignoring the plummeting quality of the car (Cadillac for Americans?).
Google is doing its best with their TV ads to counter that
i've never seen a google TV ad. i've seen ads for the droid and mytouch, but i don't think they even mention google. all of the nexus one hype came from tech publications.
You forgot about text messages. They are included in the Even More Plus plan, but are an additional $10 in the Even More plan.
We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
They were talking about HTC sense on an Android phone. I don't know why you think HTC Sense on a WinMobile phone is relevant. I can guarantee you none of what you call WinMobile trash is on the Android phone.
We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
Typically once you've finished the two years or whatever it is specifically on that plan, you're then eligible for another subsidy. The only advantage you get for buying your own phone is that you're able to get service without the contract.
If AT&T looses iPhone exclusivity it would really hurt them
I disagree. Actually the loss of exclusivity would help AT&T a lot, as a number of people might well jump ship to other carriers - thus freeing up bandwidth and ending the perception of AT&T as less reliable than other carriers, because the data load would be spread out more equally.
The damage to AT&T was one of lost opportunity, if they had put everything they had into expansion of network they might have been able to keep on top of growth and not had so many people chomping at the bit to get out. Nothing they can do about that now, so the best thing for them is to get immediate network relief for the network they have.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
If you look at a population map of the US you'll notice that the south-east third of New England is very densely populated. In fact Rhode Island, Mass, and Connecticut are the second, third, and fourth most densely populated states. Even including the less densely populated areas the overall population densely is pretty close to California's.
So no I would not call New England a sparsely populated area, not by any measure.
We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
And as I understand it, unlimited data is actually cheaper on the iPhone than on other phones (at least, at the time of the launch) due to the fact that the iPhone really needs it and Apple demanded it.
I'm pretty sure you didn't quite understand it correctly then. When the original iPhone was launched, the data plan was $20/month. When the 3G launched, it jumped to $30/month. No change when the 3GS hit the shelves. I've been paying $15/month for unlimited data on AT&T for years now.
The unsig!
Yes..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(operating_system)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(operating_system)
Check the dates.
waiting for ad.doubleclick.net
Yawn. Unless someone has T-mobile, I don't see what the fuss is. Iphone is a GSM phone. Verizion is not going GSM till LTE, which would be doubtful to see this year. Spring is not GSM. Apple went with AT&T because no one's GSM network was big enough in the USA. I'm not saying it's not going to happen, but unless you're carrier is GSM, you won't be using an iphone any time soon.
I'm cheap and have had Bellsouth/AT&T for years and never had any major problems with AT&T and people I know with it don't seem to have any problems, my take is I guess it's where you live. Our company sells equip to multiple vendors and the story we're getting is AT&T has the bandwidth, it's the backhaul from the base station to the RNC that's the problem. A lot of steps from your handset to the network, it's a moving target.
4) punish carriers for crippling features on devices
...
My main complaint with using my iPhone with AT&T is that they force you to pay for an unlimited plan. If you read the contract AT&T defines unlimited as free usage as long as it is not excessive.
www.dictionary.com defines unlimited as: not limited; unrestricted; without any qualification or exception; unconditional.
This is the definition I have been raised to use for the word unlimited. I don't think it is ethical, or even legal, to be able to redefine a word in contract.
Even with AT&T's restricted use of the word unlimited they are still complaining about how much data iPhone users are using. I'm sure there are many AT&T/iPhone users that would not be using as much data if they were not forced to purchase an "unlimited data plan".
But, I'm going to wait and see which providers, if any, start supporting the iPhone. If any of them allow for true unlimited data, at a reasonable rate, I will likely go with them if their coverage area is adequate in my area. Also, I do think unlimited data should not restrict tethering but I would be willing to pay a nominal fee for the ability to tether with a true unlimited plan.
A similar situation happened in the early introduction of commercial Internet services. Monthly plans were restricted by time, then by bandwidth, and then even the big players were forced to provide TRUE unlimited access at a reasonable rate. You do have your bandwidth hogs and power users but when you look at the big picture the majority don't even use a moderate amount their unlimited service. It's the law of large numbers.
I'm glad AT&T is suffering from iPhone usage. I didn't like the exclusive deal in the first place. If I could have my wish answered then on Wednesday Apple would allow any carrier, that uses a sim, to use and sell the iPhone and that AT&T allowed people to get out of their contract periods to get the iPhones off their network.
But, if wishes were horses begers would RIDE!
Nick Powers
Encryption: I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend your right to encrypt it...
But pointing the finger at others was traditional at Ma Bell in the old days and it has not changed. In my years in radio and networking prior to the AT&T breakup, no outage was EVER their fault.
Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer, Retired
Checking the current pricing on the t-mobile site, the subsidy for a G1 is $270. There is a mandatory $30 a month data plan though. On the even more plus plan, mandatory data is only $25. The difference is actually $15 per month. A $270 loan for 2 years at $15 a month is a nominal annual rate of 29.3% or an effective annual rate of 33.6%. Since this is quite possibly worse than what you could get on a credit card, its a pretty shitty deal.
LOL. But did you lose any data?
Seriously now. Any multi-tasking solution in which apps randomly crash and lose data due to memory pressure cannot be said to have "smooth fluid handling".
I can guarantee you aren't using that $15 ulimited data plan with an iPhone or any other smart phone either.
As far as I know, AT&T's and just about everybody else's smartphone data plan has always been around $30 per month. They reduced it by $10 as a pro-mo for the iPhone. When the 3G came out they did not extend the promo (as the iPhone was apparently really stressing their network, why would they?). If you had bought a Blackberry at any time during the iPhone promo you would have paid $30 per month, because that was their smartphone rate.
There's unlimited data, and there's smartphone unlimited data. They are different, they are sold separately, and it depends one which type of phone you have which plan they will sell you. This has been true for Blackberries and Windows Mobile phones long before the iPhone came out. The typical smartphone data plan is an extra $30 per month compared to $10-15 for a non-smart phone, and I am pretty sure it used to be a lot higher than that. This is because non-smartphones are simply not capable of pulling as much data as a smartphone, regardless of how fast the network itself is.
They also expect you to use the internet much more for things like email and general browsing, which just aren't possible (at least, not easily) on a standard phone. So, they charge more. With my local carrier I can actually get unlimited data for $8 a month (not including texting), but if I switch to a smartphone that jumps up to $30 a month. That's pretty much how it works everywhere, AT&T isn't exactly known for their low prices.
Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
That's actually not true, Nokia's apple share has always been much higher than Apple's. Apple's profit margins are rather substantial, though, compared to their percentage of the market.
You are right on. We have 3 iPhones we use, and 1 since they 1st came out. We can run virtually all the Apps we want, even w/o 3G.
If you have WIFI and EDGE, 3G is just a luxury you pay more for (not worth it for us). Our phones continue to be up-to-date with the
just fine GPS, videorecorder, 5MP camera, iCam and hundreds of Apps, none of which existed when we bought our iPhones. However,
it may be time to more to a iPad (iTablet) next week, but our 3 iPhone will just "Keep on Truckin" just fine for a lower monthly fee than
others on 3G. Yes! so far Apple has made a product that continues to be upgradable, which is like a gift that continues giving.
What's past is NOT ALWAYS prologue for the future!
That's just a reason to get a carrier with better 3G coverage.
As others here have said, I'm in the UK on O2 and I have zero problem with this issue at all. Zero. My coverage jumps from 3G to 2G regularly and I never ever have a dropped call.
AT&T's 3G network is a proven joke, but not a funny one. These 'unprintable' 'unprintable' are charging for 3G service but under-delivering a measly Edge 5 times a day, in the 21st century, in America. The Attorney Generals should be taking action and clawing money back from these crooks.
Hallowed are the Ori
I'm pretty sure you didn't quite understand it correctly then.
No, I understand it completely. The OP stated that "no matter how you swing it, it is cheaper to buy your phone outright". He is wrong.
When the original iPhone was launched, the data plan was $20/month. When the 3G launched, it jumped to $30/month. No change when the 3GS hit the shelves.
That's because the data service is different. 2G/EDGE was $20/month, 3G is $30/month.
I've been paying $15/month for unlimited data on AT&T for years now.
Grandfathered? On a smart phone? On an iPhone?
Blasphemy surely.
Was informed a week ago when I was canceling my Sprint contract. Spring has been really hurting wih the 'get out of contract ETF-free' thing. The reason for the contract change is to accommodate the launch of the iPhone.
It's part of the Jan 27th announcement by Apple.
based on my personal experience and that of people immediately around me. Even then I don't consider my phone purchases to be in any way representative of the majority of purchase dollars.
I guess if I had to make some points:
I think Nokia have lost the clear lead they used to have in 'Making the best phones'. I've been collared by a few market survey things over the last year which were clearly paid for by Nokia and seemed to acknowledge as much (and seemed hell-bent on making me think Nokia were some world leader in hand-held GPS). That's not to say Nokia make bad phones - just can't really think of many that stand out/push the envelope like that 8210 I got oh so many years ago.
What a smartphone is has massively changed over the last few years. I don't actually know myself. Pretty sure it's not a twitter or facebook client. Maybe Exchange Support... An RDP client.. GPS? I've really no idea. There's a pretty smooth gradient of features served over all price points, with no clear mark as to where the phone becomes smart.
Oh and I was wrong - I did nearly buy an N95. Wasn't the features that put me off, but seemingly was a little bit buggy at first (guy who lent it to me to play with, tried to offload it on me).
is they seem hell-bent on making things 'around' the phones. Ovi, music subscriptions, that god-awful games console thingie etc etc.
They're clearly absolutely rubbish at it - and I'd just wish they'd stop trying (or at least burn all their money trying).
In my mind Nokia should make phones - that's where their skill lay. I remember those god-awful early Samsungs and the other Korean phones made out of silver plastic. I remember the lousy interfaces on them (and Motorola phones). Nokias stood out then. Now they don't. I guess maybe it's just Nokia were out the gate first and kept ahead for a while, now everybody else has caught up and has better PR.
As someone who actually has a G1, I can assure you that the required data plan is only $25 a month. The difference is only $10 a month, which means that if the tmobile subsidy was 270, it would be cheaper to get the contract, not factoring inflation.
Granted, the difference only exists if you are not getting the unlimited minutes plan. $50 a month for unlimited talk means no price difference between contract and not contract. If you use your phone an hour a day, it would be stupid not to get the unlimited plan. If you aren't using the unlimited plan, its a little silly to put any money into your phone in the first place. Head over to walmart and get straight talk - 1000 minutes, 1000 texts, 30 mb of data, $30 a month, no contract (ie you pay, then you get the month).
Text messages are not necessary from the even more (plus) plan because the G1 requires a data plan that includes text messages.
Also, the even more plan is 60 for just unlimited talk and 70 for unlimited talk, text, and wen., while the even more plus is 80 for talk, text, and web.
I have also forgotten to include that with the contract, there is no activation, but with upfront purchase (talk to the manager at your local tmobile store, and if they wont waive activation, buy your contract from another tmobile store more than likely within walking distance), you are out another $35.
You would think they would waive the activation fee on upfront purchased phones, since you don't have a contract, but oddly enough, employees get bonuses for selling contracts, not phones.
Wait a year; not only Qt will remain available for Symbian and Maemo (as it is now), but their UIs will actually be built around it. Then ignoring them on /. will get really funny...
One that hath name thou can not otter
Your voice connection is not over IP
Who's to say he didn't mean VoIP calls?
Change happens fast. I stay on the bleeding edge of like seven year old tech. Looking forward to my cheap smart...err..will be dumb phone soon.
They could still do this, I imagine, even with freedom of choice of sorts.
Let's say you buy a phone from a wireless store. This store supports three carriers, AT&T, Verizon, and Sprint. They'll tell you Phone X works on all three. You buy your phone, you pick your carrier, and the phone is financed (like a new car is) by being spread out over the bill of whatever company you pick.
Random Thoughts From A Diseased Mind (Not For Dummies)
Precisely why I give 0.5 of a shit on how much the new phone costs when I sign a new contract. Regardless, the phone will be outdated (features/apps, carrier bandwidth, etc.) at the end of the contract anyway. Had a T-Mobile MDA (HTC Wizard) that was outdated a year after I bought it, although the rates never changed with my carrier for my plan. The phone finally died after three years, and now I have an Omnia with Verizon. The retail price vs. the subsidized price is drastic with these phones today...
I'm guessing when you guys say, "mandatory data plan" this is something T-Mobile employees insist on selling you. The G1 itself can function without a dataplan. It can get it's internet connection via wifi. Obviously if your out of range for wifi you won't have internet access but you can still do everything else like make calls just fine. I've been using my G1 this way on prepaid for months. Another advantage of buying your phone without a contract.
Less to pay if you drop the service?
I've been paying $15/month for unlimited data on AT&T for years now.
And where exactly did you get this deal? Unlimited data on AT&T has been costing me $30/month since I got my Blackberry 2 years ago.
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
Correlation != Causation.
Just because you see the little menu bar icon change doesn't mean thats whats actually going on.
Rapid signal drop as you walk into a building would not just effect 3G/Edge transition but also your phone trying to find a new tower with enough signal to actually stay in contact.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
A) there would be no reason to tell her anything
B) Unless they are breaching their contract, the 5 year deal isn't over yet so this is all just bullshit.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
Daily commute switches from 3G to EDGE, never dropped a call during that time.
Grammer Nazis - I mod you "troll" unless you actually add something on-topic. Yes, I know I have mispellings in my sig.
I haven't looked recently, but they used to hit you with higher monthly rates if you aren't in a contract. So not only are you not getting a $200+ phone from them, you're paying an extra $10-$20 to do so.
That may only be during the initial signup, as I don't recall contract rates ever going up on the day the contract ends.
Google doesn't need TV ads. Half the websites I visit have a very visible Nexus ad. I see Nexus online way more than I see iPhone TV & web combined.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
The biggest problem I have is that I can't develop for the iPhone without drinking the Apple kool-aid. I don't want a Mac. I want Eclipse on my Ubuntu VM, or at worst, Eclipse on my Windows VM.
Palm gives me the best of both worlds - an emulator in a VirtualBox image, and pretty much any choice of IDE/Platform I want. Android? Same deal.
Seriously, you couldn't possibly have a g1. You read a message board somewhere claiming someone didn't have a data plan, but that person is also a liar. Apologize to /. immediately.
You need the data plan in order to set up wifi in the first place, because you have to be logged into the phone by signing in to your gmail account on your g1. It doesn't come with wifi enabled (and it doesnt stay enabled if you don't have a data plan; if your gmail would log out, your phone will too). Tmobile employees do not insist on selling you a data plan; legally they have to sell you the phone outright without services if you insist on such. Its really, really stupid that they do, since no one else provides services for the phone. They will happily sell you a g1 without a data plan, and then laugh at you when you can't use the phone (no wait, that's me laughing at you, tmobile employees get paid to make sure you understand that the phone won't work without a data plan), not even to googlechat (I guess you can SMS, but why bother when you can email to SMS). You would have bought a $600 shiny slider phone with tons of capabilities that you don't use (since you have had it for months, technically today you can get a $400 brick).
This would be equivalent to buying a 5 bedroom house, boarding up all the rooms that you do not personally sleep in, blocking off the swimming pool, steam room, home fitness center, and finished basement, and then telling me that I'm a sucker for remodeling because your house is just fine for sleeping in by yourself, and that you did so while buying the house outright because it was one of the advantages of not getting a mortgage.
On the other hand, you will not have wifi access without a data plan. Its exactly like how you wont have phone call access without a calling plan (yours is prepaid). No browsing, no apps, and no googlemaps.
Congratulations, you are either a liar or a blathering idiot who apparently paid more money than someone with a contract (for the phone itself) so that you can't really use it. You bought an expensive niche phone so that you could make phone calls just fine? Why not get a $20 flip phone? Perhaps something from the free section on craigslist?
Tell us, o non-dataplan using g1 owner, why on earth did you choose a g1 when you don't use it?
AT&T has a Go-Phone service without a contract. Granted, it's pricey - ($1 at 20 cents per minute or $3 a day for unlimited minutes), but it's there...
So this is non-news in the U.S., because GSM = AT&T and T-Mobile. T-Mobile isn't good enough to handle an onslaught of iPhone users.
Unless there's a CDMA chipset/RF section version of the iPhone in the works. That would get Verizon, Sprint, and others into the fray.
+++OK ATH
Your right, I don't have a G1, I have four of them.
Your also right that you need a dataplan to activate the phone. That's easy to work around; Stick in a SIM card with a dataplan, activate the phone, then put in your prepaid SIM.
Not only will the phone work without a dataplan, it will work with no plan at all! If you have a SIM card that has no service, on a completely stock G1, you can still connect to the internet via wifi and download apps and use Google Maps and Street View and everything. You just have to activate the phone first. Obviously you can't make calls like that, but wifi works 100% fine.
Here's one of my phones running with no service.
Look at the status icons. No bars at all, but I've got wifi and GPS.
Now to answer your questions:
I bought an expensive (actually mine cost me about $90) niche phone because it has a full keyboard and HTML web browser. Texting on a numeric pad is a pain in the ass. Which is why I didn't op for one of the newer Android phones. It's all about the keyboard.
I didn't get a $20 flip phone because I already have a working RAZR V3i which now serves as a backup. I can use either phone with the same prepaid SIM card.
I use my G1 constantly.
Well with the phone companies saying what they can do compared to the next company and vice versa. I don't see the iPhone or any phone achieving it's full potential in the US until either one or several carriers decide to provide coverage in the US like the carriers are able to do in Japan. Both AT&T and Verizon have big faults when it comes to their abilities. Verizon says their 3G coverage covers the entire country but their speed stinks. AT&T claims their speed is tops, but their coverage stinks. The companies are still trying to get 3G coverage throughout and until that happens the latest smartphone will always not run at its full capabilities.
First, if you are an existing T-Mobile customer, you typically don't qualify for the lowest subsidized phone price. I did a Google search, and as best I can tell, existing customers who are no longer under any subsidy period pay $179 for the G1 as of just a couple of weeks ago. (I'm not a T-Mobile customer, so I can't verify this definitively.) Therefore, if you don't switch phone companies after your contract period is up, your second phone will still be cheaper to buy outright with the $10/month discount than to buy under contract.
Second, unless your plan drops by $10 when the subsidy period ends, it's not just $290. It's $50 + ($10 * n) where n is the lifetime of the phone in months before you replace it. What this means is that if you don't replace your phone at least every three years, you're better off buying it outright. And if you replace it after two, on your next phone, you pay $10 more than the equivalent of another year worth of subsidy. Thus, if you replace it exactly at the end of the subsidy period, you just lost at least $10 of your savings from the first phone. And that's for upgrading to an older phone.
Your best deal is probably to switch phone companies every two years. If you aren't willing to do that, you're probably better off buying your phone outright with the T-Mobile discounted service rate in the long run. You can bet your bottom dollar that those discounts are calculated based on the average number of years a person remains a T-Mobile customer, and that on average, T-Mobile gets the better end of the deal. Actually, they probably get the better end of the deal either way.... :-)
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
The problem is that the phone and/or tower drops the call too quickly. Almost inevitably, you have a strong signal within a second after dropping a call, so the problem is a failure in the call handoff. If the towers would just hold on a little longer, you'd experience a couple second glitch and then you'd be talking again.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
You don't see this problem in Europe.
yeah, but you do see a lot of Europeans there.
Android has limited multitasking that isn't terribly intuitive to use
You don't "use" multitasking on Android at all; it's completely transparent to the user, since all activities can be fully stopped and resumed.
Yet all I hear on /. is "iPhone, Android, iPhone, Android" ALL FRACKING DAY LONG. It's like WebOS isn't even on your radar,
I tried WebOS and I like neither the hardware, nor the software, nor the programming model. In addition, it looks to me like the company is going to die. Why would I care about WebOS?