Slashdot Mirror
Spray-On Liquid Glass
bLanark writes with news of a new substance that can be sprayed on for a durable, easy-to-clean film on almost any substance, hard or soft. The liquid glass is essentially pure silicon dioxide, and it goes on in a layer 15 to 30 atoms thick. It is breathable and flexible, but waterproof and resistant to bacterial growth. The patent is held by a German company, Nanopool, which is in discussion with many parties about a wide range of uses: keeping public spaces sanitary, keeping restaurants clean, and keeping cars or trains clean. "The spray forms a water-resistant layer, meaning it can be cleaned using only water. Trials by food-processing companies showed that sterile surfaces covered with a film of liquid glass were equally clean after a rinse with hot water as after their usual treatment with strong bleach."
we pour a gallon of that crud down the sink to kill 16 germs. not that a strong base like bleach is great for mother earth either.
slashdot: where everyone yells sarcastic metaphors to themselves to understand the issue
Can I now avoid costly windshield replacements by simply spraying this stuff on my windshield after a ding storm, or crack?
Because that'd be nice.
Support FSF: Stop thinking with your wallet, and think with your imagination. (cc/non-commercial)
Not sure how breathable glass is, I would limit my exposure. If its a durable surface (not prone to cracking), this could be an amazing breakthrough. I wonder what the durability is, how often between applications. Well, off to rtfa!
Too bad "ManInTheWhiteSuit" is too long of a tag.
What a great movie.
Technicaly all glass is liquid. IAAC (I am a chemist)
Doctors do Massage in Longview WA now, who knew?
Let me be the first to say...
sprayed on for a durable, easy-to-clean film on almost any substance, hard or soft.
bow-chicka-wow-wow!
So, now, where is my liquid spray on diamond coating. That's what I'm waiting for...
I've been using a product called Knot Wax (from a company called LoPresti) for years on my airplane. It's a two part spray on process that coats the airplane in a glass shell.
I'm not so sure this is any different, or new for that matter.
Bill
It's my Sig and you can't have it. Mine! All Mine!
If it's that thing of a layer, wont it be prone to breaking off and becoming airborne? Sounds like silicosis-fun-times to me.
I always wanted waterproof lungs.
The Blaster Master Fighting for Truth, Justice, and Evil Pie since 1979
Ah now i can finally keep my touchscreen from getting greasy...
(Or does it interfere with its operation?)
If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
Inhaling finely divided crystalline silica dust in very small quantities (OSHA allows 0.1 mg/m3) over time can lead to silicosis, bronchitis or (much more rarely) cancer, as the dust becomes lodged in the lungs and continuously irritates them, reducing lung capacities (silica does not dissolve over time). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_dioxide
Just as asbestos is a great product *for select applications* so is "glass." IMO, this sounds like a horrible idea.
Have the inventors never heard of Silicon Fibrosis? Due to abrasion Si fibers go airborne, where they imbed in the lungs and abrade, causing eventual cancer. Go have a look at the MSDS sheets. It's a nasty way to die.
I wonder if this could help make graffiti removal easier. Spray this on a clean road sign, and then just wash it with water if it gets tagged. Sure could help new drivers in Los Angeles.
If nothing sticks to it, how does it stay on?
It reminds me of the old joke: a young man comes back from his first year as a college chemistry major. His father asks him what he is working on. "We're trying to create the universal solvent."
"What's that?"
"It's a liquid that will dissolve anything."
"What're ya gonna keep it in?"
If a sheet of glass 15 to 30 atoms thick breaks, I'd expect it to be extremely hazardous to clean up. The pieces would be incredibly sharp.
Forget your windshield, think YOUR ENTIRE CAR!
No more clear coats, no more waxing, no more "rubberized under coating". If it is cheap, and light enough, you could coat every body panel and frame member with the stuff, virtually guarantying a rust proof existence.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
I saw this news item as well, albeit at PhysOrg, which has linked a few interesting related articles. From the comments, it struck me that a concern is indeed the possibility that stray particles from applying this stuff might get into your lungs or on your eyes, causing all sorts of problems since it apparently binds well to organic substances. Also, one wonders what happens if the coating is degraded on food-handling surfaces. Do fragmented microparticles rip up your insides after being carried into your body within contaminated food?
Even with these concerns, of course, I'd love to test this stuff on various less risky surfaces, such as bathroom tiles and shop tools, with appropriate respiratory and eye protection. Being able to use it on a kitchen countertop would just be a welcome bonus if it turns out to be safe for that use after all. (As an aside, I think that use wouldn't breed resistant bacteria since it simply discourages any bacteria at all from growing on the protected surfaces).
A truly excellent pizza parlor is a delight unto the heavens. Treasure the sauce and the toppings!
Well, Knot Wax is silicon free, for starters. Not sure if that makes much difference aeronautically.
1. Just spray this in my lungs to prevent me from ever getting a cold again!
2. ???
3. Profit!!!
This product reminds of the one years ago that could provide a thin but very hard layer for vinyl records thus preventing wear (and the noise/distortion that goes with it).
If this material doesn't come off or splinter, maybe it would be good for protecting glasses with plastic lenses?
Anybody else notice that the article has essentially no information on what the stuff is? One thing that it isn't is "we extract molecules of SiO2, and then we add the molecules to water or ethanol," which is what the article tries to imply-- you can't just "add" molecules of silicon dioxide to water, nor to alcohol. So, just exactly what is it?
The actual press release from which this article seem to have been drawn is here.
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
what happens when a piece of it is chipped off and put into the human body?
im not one of those ultra health nuts that walks around with a respirator (do such people actually exist?), but, i do try to avoid the use of certain types of pots and pans if i can help it (as in, those pans that have non stick teflon type surfaces breaking apart into peoples foods as they cook which, if im not mistaken, have been shown to cause cancer--- is this a wild conspiracy theory or is it as well known as it seems to be?)
either way. i dont expect that any testing of this nature will be done (seeing as how we have become so painfully backwards as a race that we would rather potentially harm humans than feed a couple of rats and dogs some tasty food with a few of these 'chips' in it).
Or entire -train- cars. In europe, they all seem to be coated in stupid spray paint logos from lazy taggers.
Several organisations are said to be testing the product, including a train company in Britain, which is using liquid glass on both the interior and exterior of the train,
I'm guessing they're hoping this will prevent idiots from vandalizing trains, since why would you care about dirt being on your freight train. Then again, shipping companies might not care much about vandalism anyway.
Gain no calories from your dessert with our secret hardening spray on topping! Disclaimer: may cause minor irritation of gums, tongue, esophagus, stomach, intestines and whatever else is left.
MSDS sheets.
You're one of those douchebags that says "ATM machines" and "SPG guns", aren't you?
Burn in flames.
Cracks up to a few inches long can be sealed already with existing resins that windshield replacement/repair companies use, and most insurance policies (at least here in the US) cover repair for free with no deductible; only full replacements incur such.
"What're ya gonna keep it in?"
In a magnetic field, as is done with plasma.
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
Think of the fun to be had spraying this stuff on the battery terminals of ipods, cell phones and other electronic devices of those you want to annoy. It's a party in can!
Finally, I can make my life size cut out of Colonel Sanders white-board marker safe.
Somewhere, Clark Griswold is smiling.
You can spray it? "They called it misted glass!"
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
I call it "Can o' Glass". Kids love glass, and kids love sprayin' stuff. We just give the kids what they want.
Don't forget the dreaded Saccharosis, also known as Sugar Lung, caused by consuming Pixy Stix too fast.
Products like Knot Wax are more like a plastic shell than a glass shell. The process takes two parts because first a coating of a resin is laid down (usually either a polyepoxide or polyurethane), and then an amine is applied to cross-link the resin molecules, leading to a very tough coating. The product discussed here appears to be a solution of short chains of silica, which when applied deposit actual glass on the surface. I'm curious about the strength of such a coating; there doesn't not appear to be any suggestion that the glass is bonded to the surface by anything stronger than van der Waals forces.
"FDA staff reviewers expressed concern about the number of patients who were left out of the study because they died."
i win
"these are not the grits you are looking for..."
I can feel my lungs beginning to itch, ahhh Silicosis - how nice that EVERYTHING will be covered in a fine layer of silicon that *WILL* wear away and add some lovely fine powdered glass to my daily breathing.
meh
"Do not process silicon dioxide with remaining kidney."
So what happens when you get a fraction of a 30 atom thick splinter from this crap in your finger? or worse all over your body? I don't even want to imagine what would happen if the surface were to shatter or splinter.
"i lost my dignity on a slippery wiener"
I can't wait for all the hippies to start telling us this stuff causes cancer and crap. They'll ban it in Seattle, there will be protests to have restaurants put up signs if they use it, it's going to be hilarious.
www.gelest.com has about a gazillion diff silane compounds, if the std ones from dowcorning or degussa are good enough for you
In the presence of atmospheric moisture, silanes form silicone dioxide like networks...
>"The spray forms a water-resistant layer, meaning it can be cleaned using only water."
Last time I checked, that is NOT the definition of water-resistant. "Water-resistant" means just that- it resists being dissolved by or being penetrated by water. It does not mean it can be "cleaned using only water." ("Water-proof", means it can NOT be dissolved by or penetrated at all by water.) Who writes this stuff??
... welcome our transparent waterproof 15 to 30 atoms thick overlords.
If you were to use tap water where I live (hard water area), you would quickly end up with a smear of limescale on the surface. So you would need to clean (or at least rinse) with distilled water.
Can it prevent the transmission of HIV?
I'm curious about the strength of such a coating; there doesn't not appear to be any suggestion that the glass is bonded to the surface by anything stronger than van der Waals forces.
If the short-chains bond to each other, some of them might bond to the surface (if its structure is appropriate).
Even if not, unless the surface is mirror-smooth it will have irregularities. A liquid that cross-links into a solid will wrap such irregularities and form a mechanical interference bond - like a surface wrapped under a rivet, a mushroom-shaped extension into a void, or a root into a crack.
Van der Walls forces are not trivial - especially between form-fitted irregularly-shaped solids. And if the "glass" and its substrate have any charge asymmetry the setting glass will also tend to settle into place with opposite charges nearby, forming something like a hydrogen bond.
This might stick on to many surfaces very well.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Pure silicon dioxide, in its glass form, is quartz. This is a scheme for putting a thin quartz film on other materials. That's useful, but not revolutionary. The big improvement here is that it's apparently applied as a liquid solution in air at room temperature, rather than having to be applied at molten quartz temperatures or in vacuum.
I first saw this reported here:
http://www.physorg.com/news184310039.html
at the end there was this drivel:
Liquid glass spray is perhaps the most important nanotechnology product to emerge to date. It will be available in DIY stores in Britain soon, with prices starting at around £5 ($8 US). Other outlets, such as many supermarkets, may be unwilling to stock the products because they make enormous profits from cleaning products that need to be replaced regularly, and liquid glass would make virtually all of them obsolete.
It doesn't quote a source, so maybe it's just bad, really bad, reporting, but it sure has the sound of a snake oil sales pitch converted into copy.
This stuff sounds like it has obvious applications as a repair medium for scratched compact discs. As long as the scratches are not uber deep (or have been buffed off really well with a disc buffer), this stuff should be able to fill very tiny and superficial scuffs and scratches, and return the disc's surface to a nice transparent gloss.
As an added bonus, it should make the surface less prone to being scratched again.
I could easily see this being sold as an optical media repair fluid.
That should either be "doesn't" or "does not," and not my indecisive combination of the two, which alters meaning somewhat. On another note, I can't figure out how this liquid glass stuff is supposed to work as a product. The "liquid glass" manufacturers suggest it can be made into a spray in water or ethanol, but it apparently dries to form a waterproof coating. They claim to use no additives, but I'm not sure how aggregation of suspended silica is prevented- how is it stored in bottles without having a big slug of glass form at the bottom?
"FDA staff reviewers expressed concern about the number of patients who were left out of the study because they died."
Nitpick: bleach is not a strong base, it's a strong oxidizer.
You're thinking about NaOH (which is a base) - good stuff as well.
Let's say we have 8 different antibacterial products. Would it be wrong to think of a bacterium developing resistance to 7 of them, then losing one of those resistances in order to pick up the last one? I am assuming it is more accurate to think of it as a computer under attack, where it can be patched and potentially immune to all attacks.
The only way I can see for us to "win" the war against germs is to have more antibiotics/antibacterials etc. than they can possibly be immune to, but the cynic in me is assuming that is not how the science works.
My webcomic
the concept of spray-on glass is mind-boggling
The concept of spray-on breasts is mind-boggling. The concept of spray-on glass is merely interesting.
That would be Billy Mays.
Say hello to my little sig.
I have a genuine concern about the influx of all these consumer grade products which contain Nano materials (as we all should). I get the distinct impression that corporations are putting the benefits of these materials way ahead of the potential health risks (surprised?). Just off the top of my head...Apple's iPhone has a coating comprised of nano materials, many skin creams and make up now contain nano particles, etc. Where are the real studies that show there are no risks in using these materials directly with your skin and body? How can there be any credible tests that show long term results? The sad thing is that 99.9% of the people don't know or care about this. I fear that these materials will be the Asbestos of the 21st century that people of the future will look back on and shake their heads. Can any Slashdotters provide some good feedback or linkage on this matter? Appreciate any feedback.
silicon di oxide is a common ingredient in many things we ingest. Notably non dairy creamer. But I have seen it in so many common food items surprisingly.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Think of this over screens and on cases and on cheap sunglasses and regular plastic lenses.
I know this was meant as a joke, but the way wind shields are repaired is essentially spraying in some clear liquid which hardens. It might be difficult to use this spray to get a clear windshield, but the key thing which causes cracks to run is the sharpness of the crack. If this could be sprayed in soon after the crack forms, it may keep the crack from running by blunting the crack tip.
That would be my immediate need.
-=[ place
I just want to say, in all honesty, that this discussion is exactly what I want to read on Slashdot.
Thank you.
Window glass used to be made by blowing giant glass discs and cutting rectangles or diamonds out of them to piece together to make leaded windows. The method of blowing the glass discs resulted in glass that was often thicker on one side than the other. The person building the window would naturally orient the thicker side of each piece to the bottom of the window, to work with gravity to make the window stronger and longer-lasting.
If the glass were really a flowing liquid, then the edges of the pieces would be rounded and deformed, but they are not. They are as sharp and straight as the day they were cut.
Is ecotech the new asbestos?
How about we test radical new substances first before selling them instead of using the population as guinea pigs?
Enough about Glass!
Maybe we coud talk about Holden Caulfield for a change?
- Ecsad Essemal
The Hexadecimal TV-REMOTE!
That's all nice and well, but it's over-simplifying the problem.
Laminated glass is actually two layers of tempered glass; one on the inside and another on the outside. The laminate (plastic sheet) is sandwiched between the glass layers. You can brush-up on it here.
A crack doesn't normally form on its own with such glass, except in extreme heat/cold situations. The most common cause of cracks in tempered-glass laminates is “punctures” from high-speed flying debris. The puncture occurs as the debris breaks the outer glass layer. Even if the laminate isn't punctured, the inner glass may crack from the impact.
A crack will form over a span of time—sometimes days, sometimes months—due to a combination of environmental extremes and torsion strain. These cracks form in both panes of glass simultaneously, since a crack in one half leads to a structural vulnerability in the other half. The crack will eventually “race” paths across the windshield until it finds an edge. Such cracks are not inherently dangerous, but the windshield is no longer as strong as it should be.
So, there's two problems with this proposed spray-on “fix”: (1) The fluid may not actually penetrate into the crack, and even if it does, the laminate prevents it from filling to the other side; and (2) the dust, particles and residues would become permanently trapped in the shallow layer, only to reflect more light and make the windshield worse than before. (like dust/smears you can't wipe off)
Best solution; just take your windshield to an on-the-spot crack repair. They use a pressurized applicator that injects fluid at the original “puncture”. It's cheap, it saves you from replacing the windshield in a year, and many comprehensive insurance policies actually cover it.
As for the “liquid glass”, the purposes listed in TFA sound utterly sensible; a surface treatment that's easy to disinfect, durable and practically germ-proof. I can't wait to have my counter-tops done!
This post © Copyrite Duggeek, all rights reversed.
Forget your windshield, think YOUR ENTIRE CAR! [...]
-Rick
You're on to something, but the other respondents have a point. It's just a few-dozen atoms thick, and I don't think it's going to stand-up to 50mph gravel being thrown at it.
Still, there's huge potential for the “invisible bra” and clear-coat treatments. With a bit more R&D, I bet they could make a more abrasion-resistant form of the stuff for undercarriage.
Keep thinkin' big!
This post © Copyrite Duggeek, all rights reversed.
So light you won't feel they're on !!!
In this field no matter how much you know, You still don't know anything.
Goodbye condoms!
Hivemind harvest in progress..
Spray your graffiti on a clean road sign, and then just spray this on your graffiti.
For many years this company http://www.adsil.com/ has been applying 5-35 micron (depending on the application) 'glass' coatings to a variety of surfaces using contractors who typically spray it on using an isopropanol solvent. I live in FL and had had a bad problem with mold on the walls of my new house (probably due to drywall that was stored under moist conditions). After removing the mold and repainting, I had the adsil product applied to almost the entire interior of my house (they also do exterior applications and many other surfaces). 9 years later not a bit of mold and the walls look like they were painted yesterday. Smudges and splattered goo wipe right off. I am quite happy with the product. It was also applied to my fiberglass shower stall and, while it helps, it was not the miraculous protection against staining by high iron well water that I was hoping for. I was originally inspired to trust the process by my chemistry research experience with silanizing glassware. Something like this process has been around a long, long time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silanization
Silicon dioxide's bulk density is 2200 kg/m^3. Let's assume the density of this coating is comparable.
One square meter of silica, one meter deep, masses 2200 kg.
One millimeter deep, 2.2 kg.
One micron deep, 2.2 g.
One nanometer deep, 2.2 mg.
If you dispersed a square meter of this coating uniformly into the air, you'd need to dilute it into a column 22 meters deep to meet the OSHA limit. But how are you going to disperse that much all at once? A crack or a scratch would likely disperse much less than a square millimeter worth of the stuff, and that wouldn't be enough to pollute half a shot glass full of air. (1 m^3 = 1000 L; 22000 L / 1000000 = 22 ml)
More to the point, that volume is about 1/20 of a typical breath. In other words, you'd need to scrape the hell out of the surface in order to get one lungful of air above the OSHA limit -- and that limit is for chronic exposure (8 hours/day), not a one-shot acute exposure.
Why bother with shingles.. just leave the plywood/chipboard exposed and spray it with this glass stuff... (paint the boards white/black/whatever for aesthetic purposes obviously.)
So I hope they have a mask included with this product. Inhaling nano particles that stick to surfaces may not be so good for you.
-Eric