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Astronauts Having Trouble With Tranquility Module
Coldeagle writes "Astronauts ran into trouble while trying to connect up the new Tranquility module onto the ISS. A critical insulating cover didn't fit quite right: 'The fabric, multilayered cover is supposed to go between Tranquility and its observation deck, but the metal bars are not locking down properly because of interference from a hand rail or some other structure at the hatch.' One has to wonder if this is another imperial/metric snafu."
Metric is better than Fahrenheit, and USA should get on with the times. But Fahrenheit is more accurate. But Celsius can be just as accurate, if you take decimals into the play.
Atleast in scientific application there is no reason to use Imperial. Metric makes all calculations simpler, and is accepted by a much larger portion of the world, and should be the standard in all science.
-EL
Tape? SS wire (what's used for tying down hoodpins on racecars and securing critical bolts) or aircraft cable (used with crimping connectors for tamperproof seals), some velcro bands, rope?
Didn't they learn anything from the apollo missions?
Please help metamoderate.
it can fix anything!
One has to wonder if this is another imperial/metric snafu.
Uh, why? Yes, NASA made that mistake once, ten+ years ago. Aren't there plenty of other mistake categories that are just as if not more likely?
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The Hubble misfocusing problem wasn't due to English-metric stuff. A contractor was assembling an optical apparatus and was supposed to be adjusting the focal length to a point inside some hollow cylindrical cap with a hole bored in its center. When adjusting their eyepiece they missed the hole, and centered instead on a shiny point near the edge of the cap that was also reflecting laser light, because the paint had been scratched there. They couldn't get the focus knob to rotate far enough as they would need to get this paint scratch into focus, so they drove out to a hardware store, bought some flat washers, inserted them on the threaded rods holding up the laser, and elevated the focusing section out a bit so they could dial the focus length to properly get the length to the scratch right.
Don't they have mock ups on the ground and quality control for these issues?
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
you arent a mechanical designer if you dont say atleast once a day: "but it looked perfectly fine in the cad!"
thats the regular excuse to lack common sense where i work anyway
If you read the article, you'd see that there's no problem.
They aren't talking about Hubble. The classic example of an imperial-metric snafu is the Mars Climate Orbiter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter which was lost because the software measured force in pounds while the thrusters gave results and throttled accordingly by newtons. This is not the only time an Imperial-Metric screwup has occurred but this is the most expensive. There have been multiple minor issues in the past on the ISS related to units issues.
One has to wonder if this is another imperial/metric snafu.
Probably not. From the article:
The $27 million, Italian-built observation deck sports the biggest window ever flown in space. In all, there are seven windows that will offer 360-degree views.
The 11 astronauts aboard the shuttle-station complex opened the door Friday to the $380 million Tranquility, also made in Italy for the European Space Agency. The door leading from Tranquility into the observation deck was opened soon afterward, and that's when shuttle pilot Terry Virts and Kay Hire encountered the cover problem.
So, now even submitters aren't reading the article? Damn...
Show me on the doll where his noodly appendage touched you.
After further analysis of the center disk cover interference issue, the teams determined that there wasn't an issue with relocating the cupola. The crew will spend time today preparing the cupola for its relocation. Source: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/shuttle/main/index.html
The problem has been fixed, it was interference by some bolts.
"Late Saturday, the space station's commander, Jeffrey Williams, reported that bolts seemed to be causing the interference. He removed all eight bolts, saying the clearance would be tight but that the cover likely would fit. It did, with some coaxing Sunday."
http://apnews.excite.com/article/20100214/D9DS3UOO1.html
Here's another mystery. Why does the headline link to a story at USATODAY.COM ?
You wanna know whats up with some peculiar internet routing? OK, we get quotes from the guys with hands on the SSH session keyboards right off the NANOG mailing list.
You wanna talk about apple stuff, Woz himself posts here, although all he talks about is his Prius accelerating.
You wanna talk about amateur space exploration, John Carmack himself posts here about his peroxide motors.
You wanna talk about star trek, you get CleverNickName posting, although not since October.
I figure Don Knuth, linus, and RMS probably post here too, although AC.
Here is a very interesting spacecraft story, and we get a hyperlink to USA-freaking-today.com. USA-freaking-today.
Slashdotters you should be ashamed of yourself for slashdot linking to USA-freaking-today, I know theres a genuine NASA console jockey out there whom can post the real goods, AC at least...
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
Yes
There are two valid solutions to the classic problem of accidentally mixing imperial and metric.
One solution is to use only metric.
The other solution is to use only imperial.
I blame the rest of the world for trying to force their system of measurement upon us.
"His name was James Damore."
You are the lost generation. If you can't figure out how long a kilometer is, who cares? Think of the children. Or would you rather have them say, "Well, I have no sense of how long a kilometer is" and hope your grandchildren will straighten it all out?
Have gnu, will travel.
Yet another reason why America should only use the metric system. It's taught in the classroom, but rarely is it used instead of the Imperial system. The most well-known example is a 2-litre bottle of soda. Units: ...perhaps more?
Volume/Capacity - ounces, cups (8 ounces), pints (2 cups or 16 ounces), quarts (2 pints or 4 cups or 64 ounces), gallons (4 quarts or 256 ounces),
Length - inches, feet (12 inches), yards (3 feet or 36 inches), miles (5280 feet or 176 yards)
Weight - ounces, pounds (16 ounces), short tons (2000 pounds - often referred to simply as a "ton" with no idea that there is in fact a long ton which is 2240 pounds, nevermind knowing about the metric ton that is equivalent to 1000 kg and is often known simply as a "tonne")
I don't mind knowing that stuff by heart, but I wish it was as simple as the metric system. Capacity/Volume reminds me of the powers of 2, so it isn't too terrible, but the units of length are annoying. Give me centimetres and kilometres any day! Vehicles already have km/h on the speedometer, so it would just be a matter of getting people used to it. Of course, now is hardly the time for the change. The country would need to replace so many road signs, which costs a lot of money, and the country already has no money. >_
Even if this gets modded up to +5, it's going to be buried under a dozen pointless and irrelevant posts about imperial vs. metric ...
From the ISS Flight Director briefing on NASA TV at 1:30pm today:
http://www.space-multimedia.nl.eu.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5693:sts-130-iss-flight-director-update-fd-7-8&catid=1:latest
[transcribing] "Crew was able to use their eyes and hands and gave good info on interference along with photos, Jeff has had a lot of hands on the hardware and he's given us the best info. His info allowed us to validate what he's seeing with our records on the ground. Actual interference is just a bolthead, that caused us to question our clearance analysis. We went back and looked at it since we don't want clearance issue when we install Cupola on nadir, and found that we have more clearance than originally expected."
From the Flight Day 8 "execute package" sent up around 3pm to the Endeavour astronauts:
( http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/426345main_FD08.pdf )
"Because of your excellent work in checking interferences, we are now comfortable with
proceeding with cupola depress and relocate today!!! Thanks so much!!!"
From the NASA TV schedule, Tuesday:
CUPOLA MLI REMOVAL 10:39 PM EST / 03:39 UTC
After that the windows can be opened, which is what we're all waiting for!
One simple rule for its versus it's
You're already using the metric system. It was an actual, global standard before the "imperial" units were standardized. This is why, for example, the definition of an inch (as currently used in USA) is exactly 25.4mm. When you say "inch" you actually mean "25.4mm".
---
Space Colonization Feed @ Feed Distiller
"Houston, this is Tranquility Base here, we have a problem."
Actually, when Apollo 11 landed and announced, "Houston, this is Tranquility Base, the Eagle has landed", mission managers were initially confused because they'd never heard the phrase "Tranquility Base" in training. Neal threw that in as a surprise. That teaser, Neal.
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I worked at a machine shop inspecting oilfield parts. We would get drawings from all over the world. Texas, Saudi Arabia, Pennsylvania, Egypt, you name it. The drawings from the US were always imperial (inch), and the drawings from everywhere else were in metric (usually millimetre). Not a problem. Because our biggest customers were American, we would normally make all parts in inches, but if a drawing from somewhere else came along, one of the first things done was to convert it from millimetres to inches. Every dimension was converted prior to doing anything else. There are 25.4 millimetres to the inch, or 2.54 microns per ten thousandth of an inch. Never, ever had a problem converting. The only problem we ever had was tolerences. In inch, they were usually always there. In metric, usually none were given. You had to guess at what was an acceptable amount of deviation from perfection. You can banter all you want about conversions and whatnot, but from what I saw, if there was a problem with the part, and it doesn't fit, then both the guy who made the part and also the guy who inspected the part screwed up. Whenever we would ship anything out of country, 3rd party inspectors would inspect the part too. Assuming shipping to space is much more expensive than shipping by rail or truck, I would assume that 3rd party inspectors would, for insurance reasons at least, inspect the part as well. If after that, it still doesn't fit, either the engineer who designed it screwed up badly, the drawings on hand are wrong and the previous engineer screwed up, or the guy who made the part (and all of the quality control people) screwed up. There are reasons why you put infrastructure in place to avoid these kind of screwups. You make sure only as-built drawings are on hand, you make sure subcontractors destroy old drawings (so they only build the part as required), and you test-build an exact copy of the iss on the ground out of plastic (or some other cheap, easy to machine material), so you can be certain that this kind of screwup doesn't happen.
I work for Boeing (the main contractors for the ISS) and the problem is that the cover will not retract over one of the CBM (common berthing mechanisms) where they wish to install the Cupola. It is actually no impact to Tranquility which is working wonderfully so far. This issue has at this time already been resolved and the Cupola is being relocated to this area, while PMA-3 (Pressurized Mating Adapter #3) is being relocated to where the Cupola used to be. This was done so that the Cupola could face the earth and create all those fantastic views everybody envisioned from the ISS, while being able to be launched in the shuttle payload bay.
One thing that Imperial units have going for them is that they better divide by 3 and 4. 12 and arguably 60 make a "nicer" unit base mathematically. Ten is merely a happenstance of tetrapod evolution. A "smart" god would have given us 12 digits instead of 10.
Table-ized A.I.
One thing that Imperial units have going for them is that they better divide by 3 and 4. 12 and arguably 60 make a "nicer" unit base mathematically. Ten is merely a happenstance of tetrapod evolution. A "smart" god would have given us 12 digits instead of 10.
By that argument a power of two should surely be best, but I expect that fourteen fingered aliens would favor base fourteen anyway.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
Did anyone else glance at the headline and think they were talking about the Apollo mission, then feel a fool when they read the story properly? ;-)
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
The rest the world has to deal with english, American technical terms, corporations, IP laws, military bases, a hysterical anti-terror crusade and occasionally our messed up measurement system. Yet Americans can't handle having to transition to metric because it would be too hard and too difficult. The greatest generation could have done it, but not the current ones - its beyond their abilities.
Legacy parts? live with it. Eventually, they stop being produced anyhow. It can take decades to move hardware but a ton of stuff can be moved quickly.
Bunch of wimps. I know, I live here.
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All space craft have trouble with them.
If we have a weighting system that gives the lowest integers the higher weights and also gives credit to the lowness of the number (5 is better than 500 as a base, for example), then 12 and 60 will likely be top candidates. We as humans do a lot of division by the lower integers (2, 3, 4, etc.). A base that reflects this would make life easier.
Table-ized A.I.
No, because you can't divide those by 3.
14 even less so, divisible only by 2 and 7.
Trust me, after 3 months you'll be as intuitive in using metric like riding a bike/ using GPS while driving/ learning CSS. I don't find myself to be a genius but around the average intelligence, and I could pickup Imperial System after living with metric for 12 years. Really, don't sell yourself short. The chaos would be inhibited by the dire idiot who can't even properly tie his own shoes. The fact that you have a slashdot acct, and can probably setup your own email account on gmail/ hotmail/ whatever, the world is not going to end.
Why do I hate IS? The conversions make no sense at all - from ounces to cups to teaspoon; inches to miles to acres - makes no sense. I love cooking and industrial design/ architecture, and I always setup the system in metrics because it's easily scalable in the head, whereas with IS I'd need to have the calculator handy. It just adds unnecessary hurdles.
Live with metric for a few months and it'll be more than just "logical" - it'll be intuitive.
I'm pretty sure we don't want them to open the windows. I would rather they just open the window covers. If they open the windows, it will be very, very windy....for a little while.
--- Space Craft Feed @ Feed Distiller
"Take that NASA!"
Stephen Colbert's revenge!
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they're sick and tired of having to learn new things just because some asshole decides they have to, they just want to live their lives in the environment they grew up in
So what I gather is that the cover is a temporary protection for Tranquility's port between the time the lookout is moved and when a permanent docking adapter is installed.
But then you get gems of sagacity from the article such as:
The fabric, multilayered cover is supposed to go between Tranquility and its observation deck
which make it sound like it's a permanent item for a lookout that isn't being moved.
Houston we got a problem...in our news writers.
I guess pre-testing before flight of space qualified components is now considered over-rated and being anal.
Not to mention that thermal exhaust duct that's only supposed to stretch from the exhaust port at the surface 621/1000s of the way down to the main reactor.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Please clarify. Where did you get 14? The more root integers a candidate matches, the higher the score. 14 ain't match much in terms of quantity.
Table-ized A.I.
Ok. I read it. According to what you linked to, other problems occurred also. In particular, they ignored initial evidence that something was wrong. This, and the initial failure to find the problem resulted, in according to that piece, systemic problems at NASA. I fail to see how anything in that piece justifies responding to the statement that the craft was lost due to software working on imperial and throttle as working under metric is at all "wrong" given what you've stated, much less "WRONG."
So they need decimal points they can move around. That is 20 decimal points if they take their socks off.
MODERATE THIS FUCK NUT.
Poop stinks and so do you=:)
A gallon is 128 ounces, not 256.
All things being equal, the latter solution is inferior to the former. Metric is logical and much easier (powers of ten, same decimal prefixes in all units). The only thing holding the imperial system is legacy; it has no inherent advantages.
17779 eligible voters in a district, 17779 'vote' as one. This is Russia.
Um, 2 * 16 = 32, as in oz in a quart. Fail. Ditto for 4 * 8 which is also 32. Double fail.
Similarly
5280 / 3 = 1760 yards in a mile. Triple fail.
I guess "no student left behind" didn't work out so well.
Having worked with lots of cable assemblies, this sounds like someone spec'd *just* enough length for the sheath on the bill of material, instead of allowing a bit extra for trimming errors.
If you want a refutation that uses facts, why don't you try making an argument worthy of one instead of drooling all over your keyboard and parroting meaningless bi-partisan cliches?
Both the Tranquility unit and the observation deck are Italian built
So it is not very likely this is a Metric / Imperial mixup problem, as Italy uses Metric only and built both objects.
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem delendam esse
Tranquility, Cupula AND the insulation were all made in Italy.
Basically, Italy should have tested this in a low atmosphere chamber. Had they done so, then they would have found this issue. This is going to turn out to be BAD QC on Italy's part.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
"One has to wonder if this is another imperial/metric snafu."
I am wondering if its a postage stamp vs metres snafu.
On a long enough timeline. The survival rate for everyone drops to zero. Chuck Palahniuk, Fight Club, 1996
It's not a matter of just "getting on with the times". Yes, the SI system is easier to work with, but there are immense costs in converting every system in use to another system.
True, but every other country in the world has already paid those costs. The metric system isn't terribly old. The longer the US waits the more expensive and difficult it becomes to switch.
You also need to consider that every piece of software and every table of elevations and distances that engineers use when building such systems are not in metric.
Most of those bits of software are already capable of metric (or easily made so) and generating new tables is trivial. Most engineering companies are quite capable of working with metric. Any company that does business outside the US (which is a LOT of them) already deals in metric whether they want to or not. It's a global economy and the US is intentionally incurring an unnecessary cost and burden on its own businesses.
Yes, the conversion would have some significant difficulties but the real difficulty is getting people to just accept metric as the standard. The biggest obstacle is simply people (older people especially) not wanting to bother - not the financial cost.
When my government is over $12,300,000,000,000 in debt, "getting on with the times" is the last thing on which I'd want it to waste more money.
As a percent of gdp the US has been in more debt as recently as 65 years ago. The conversion costs of going to metric, expensive as it would be, would be tiny in comparison. You could pay for the whole thing with a relatively modest cut in your choice of Defense, Social Security or Medicare. Of course good luck getting that done...
Consider it from the other side: why doesn't the world convert to Impirial Units? I'm sure no country wants to incur the cost of converting everything to another system.
Because the other 95% of the world's population has grasped the concept that using standard units saves money in the long run and makes it easier to communicate as well. Are you seriously arguing that 95% of the world's population should switch to a measurement system that even you admit is more difficult to work with? That's a bizarre way to convince someone...
He was addressing the person that suggested 14-fingered aliens would prefer base 14, much the way that we as 10-fingered aliens prefer base 10.
Ten is merely a happenstance of tetrapod evolution. A "smart" god would have given us 12 digits instead of 10.
Your god gave you 12 knuckles on the grasping fingers of each hand. Egyptian and Babylonian children were taught this at an early age. It seems his children are the idiots here.
Dozenal or bust.
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Nothing a hatchet can't fix.
Table-ized A.I.