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iPad Will Beat Netbooks With "Magic"
entirely_fluffy writes "In a talk intended to woo investors, Apple Chief Operating Officer Tim Cook said the iPad will win over potential netbook buyers, but not because of specs or features. No, Cook said, the iPad's magical properties will seal the deal. 'The netbook is not an experience people are going to continue wanting to have,' Cook said, according to Macworld. 'When they play with the iPad and experience the magic of using it ... I have a hard time believing they're going to go for a netbook.'" Another thing that would help would be a camera and a $100 discount, but hey Magic is cool too, provided they have enough mana.
Given mages constant grieving towards hunters, they will most likely stay away from this.
I hope he knows I've got the patent on magic, and the magic blue smoke in devices.
Om, nomnomnom...
""When they play with the iPad and experience the magic of using it... I have a hard time believing they're going to go for a netbook.""
So your sales strategy involves a free trial for everyone?
Operator, give me the number for 911!
Everyone was estimating $999 based upon the foolish assumption that it would actually be a useful piece of gear as opposed to a glorified e-reader.
How much magic is left in the Apple Lisa?
I wouldn't depend on *that* for long.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
apple only beat estimations versus itself. In reality, you can get significantly more functionality for less if you compare it to any other company that exists.
So yes, if you look through rose tinted glasses, the situation looks rosy. who would have known?
To a regular netbook person the magic is price... They are barking up a wrong tree, if the intend to compete with netbooks without competitive price.
So many people treat computers like a black box that I wouldn't be surprised if this does give netbooks a run for their money. It's doubtful that it will take hold in the more technically oriented community (closed as it is,) but in the "I don't care I just want it to work" arena it may do quite well.
As for what the hell the magic is, above and beyond being a giant iPod/iPhone, I do not know.
Netbooks aren't very resistant to magic. If they party with a PC for tanking, then it'll be a different story.
Nothing lasts forever but the certainty of change.
NetBook > ipad
Why
1: netbook has actual keyboard
2: netbook is a actual pc Ie it runs windows or linux
3: netbook can multi task
4: nebook can be had for as cheep as 200$
5: netbook can close to protect screen.
I can keep going but sorry netbook is a real system, the ipad is just a oversized iphone.
Apple already beat all estimations on what it'd cost. I think everyone on /. was estimating around $999 (as was everyone else on the net). All of the closest competitors are around that price point.
Why not just ask for it for free?
A camera would be nice.
Freescale has a similar device that they're targeting for the $199 price point. The Smartbook comes with a camera and USB ports, and is a 7" touchscreen tablet.
Or, in business terms, "we could sell poop in a box and people would buy it because of their trust in Apple, also know as brand equity, which we will burn in exchange for cash with this product."
This is reflected in the framing here as well. The ipad can beat netbooks? Well, for the money I can get something better than a netbook. But that comparison wont be as flattering so the bar is pushed lower.
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
"Magic" is really a good description for trying to create the maximum user experience.
As a happy owner of the iPad Nano (aka iPod Touch) for over a year now, Apple has real potential here in the scaled-up version, and this really is a good description of why the iPad may sell and the iPhone has sold: a cohesive user experience.
And here's one of the big uses: VNC. Have the iPad be the remote desktop to your "real" computer.
Test your net with Netalyzr
What's wrong with netbooks?
I got one for $300 a few months ago, and it does pretty much everything I'd ask it to. Office applications, internet, chat (and it does have a webcam and microphone, something I believe the iPad doesn't), and it even does (some of) the games on my Steam account. Not to beat a dead horse, but it doesn't hurt that the netbook has a faster processor, four times the storage of the biggest iPad, Flash, and USB support, either.
I'm not going to deny that the iPad can do things my netbook can't and that it's a much sexier piece of hardware, but I don't think there's anything intrinsically wrong with "the netbook experience."
Goo goo g'joob.
Maybe they could get Penn & Teller?
I can see it now ... ... ::crickets:: ... at least he does impressions ... but not of the iPad ...
Penn: Hi, I'm an iPad
Teller:
Penn: Don't mind him, he's a slate device. They don't have much to crow about.
Teller: (makes sour face)
Penn: He looks like some guy who bought a slate device
Apple does good when they're modifying existing markets. They tend to fall flat when they're trying to create new ones (cf. Newton).
My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
The iPhone offered new things in a phone, things the average consumer didn't realize were possible. The iPad offers... what? I just don't see it. The only significant difference between the iPad and an iTouch is the screen size. Yes, that will give developers more that they can do, but only up to a certain point, especially if all apps are suposed to be compatible with the iPhone. It can't even be used as a proper web browsing machine given that amount of sites that are to a greater or lesser extent powered by flash.
The article doesn't really add anything new, it's just spouting the general opinion that's been floating around since the launch.
I would say Apple's own logo and buzz will make people want it. We have to keep in mind it isn't the geeks that make these gadgets popular, it's when the soccer moms are buying them for themselves and their husbands, or the middle-age blue-collar worker who can have all his Steven King novels with him where ever he may be. These are the people that make up the sales, they're the middle-class. It doesn't matter to them if you can 'alt-tab' to an already running program. Camera or not, it's still a great device that is priced to sell to a large audience. I would have never though of buying a Kindle after seeing one, E-Ink doesn't offer enough for the price. Now there's a easy-to-use E-Reader/Netbook that would fit a lot of people, it's as simple as that.
Then again maybe I should just blog my opinion and put it somewhere where I can make revenue for ads like this site.
[J]
And where can I buy that? All I keep seeing is references to a "Design Reference."
Of course every company has a few "well this is what we 'could' do." Apple could have shown demos of the iPad a year ago.
I'm still waiting on my ARM laptop that is 'just around the corner'.
In reality, you can get significantly more functionality for less if you compare it to any other company that exists.
This one looks promising imho.
Reply to That ||
Apple reallllllly need to stop mentioning netbooks.
The cheap, gimped, version of the iPad is twice as expensive as a netbook. Every time they say netbook it reminds people that there's a perfectly adequate device that is in many ways more capable than their device for far less money. Everyone was initially amazed that Apple had produced a tablet computer for $500, their amazement waned when they realised Apple hadn't produced a computer.
Puzzle Daze is now my job
Yes, because we assumed it would be a useful machine -- USB ports, disc space, webcam...
Palm trees and 8
A glorified ereader... without the epaper.
Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
This is such crap.
I'm sure the iPad will find an audience and will sell by the truckload, but come on...are they really claiming that people won't pay for a netbook, but they will pay the same price for something with half the functionality and none of the openness, just because it's pretty?
"The netbook is not an experience people are going to continue wanting to have," Cook said, according to Macworld. "When they play with the iPad and experience the magic of using it... I have a hard time believing they're going to go for a netbook."
This is as close as we will ever get to Apple admitting their cult of personality is the primary (but not only) driver of their sales, not their products.
Living With a Nerd
More evidence to prove my case calling for Apple to be burned at the stake!
This is such crap.
I'm sure the iPad will find an audience and will sell by the truckload, but come on...are they really claiming that people won't pay for a netbook, but they will pay the same price for something with half the functionality and none of the openness, just because it's pretty?
You've never met a woman, have you...
That may not describe the average consumer, but it certainly describes the average Apple fanboy, who would buy a turd with an Apple sticker on it and defy you to find a better one anywhere.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Well Apple is calling it "MAGICAL."
I'd say glorified is an apt description.
Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
A couple points:
First, touchscreen technology has come a long way in recent years (largely thanks to the iPhone showing what's possible in a consumer device), so provided the screen is just large enough to fit both hands on it I could see touch typing working out fine - my little HTC Hero picks up my keypresses amazingly well, and I have fat sausage fingers. Lack of actual keys will be a bit unfamiliar, perhaps, but consumers will get over any initial difficulty with the "coolness" factor.
Second, keeping the first point in mind, touchscreen PC's have been around for years and have always been a niche device precisely because of its form factor. They just aren't that useful except in certain circumstances. For example, they are easier to use while standing, but much more awkward while sitting at a table, and quite frankly a bit absurd while resting it in your lap. They are great for hand writing notes and drawing, but no matter how well they do an on-screen keyboard typing will never be as good on a tablet as on a laptop or even a netbook, for the simple fact that the screen will be in a much more awkward position.
That's not to say it won't do well, I'd just be very surprised if an iPad style touchscreen class of devices became anywhere near as popular as the netbook has been.
Now, if they were really good they'd ship it with a stand and a built-in projector keyboard. That wouldn't fix the lap-issue, but it would do a lot to make it a more versatile device like the netbooks are, and it would have massive coolness factor.
Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
- Arthur C. Clarke, "Profiles of The Future", 1961 (Clarke's third law)
My guess is that Apple is betting that they can advance tablet technology far enough to make it indistinguishable from magic. I don't think I'm alone when I say that I feel extremely skeptical of this claim. We'll see when it's released how "magic" it seems.
Personally, I think a magic tablet would be one that is holographic AND can do everything my computer can, plus everything I would like it to do.
A tall order, but that's what you get when you start making claims about magic.
It's amazing how dense the majority of the Slashdot audience is.
For the wide majority of people, the functionality of an iPad and a netbook are exactly the same.
Can you browse the web?
Can you email?
Those two questions make up a huge percentage of most netbook users experience.
Factor in the app store and it is no contest.
Cult of Personality? Puhleaze. The "magic" he is talking about is the same "magic" that most users see when comparing a command line interface to a well designed GUI.
"This isn't the netbooks you are looking for. Move along."
Amazingly enough, this is why the average Slashdotter isn't a millionaire.
The iPad is a perfect kitchen computer. I could easily give it to my halfwit mother and she'd be entirely comfortable with it. There are more people in the world like her than there are people writing code.
Most computer users want their hardware and software to work like appliances and having an outstanding UI is a part of that. Let me give an example that is probably near and dear to the hearts of everyone here.
You're in bed, surfing porn. Now, you can do it with a notebook that requires a trackpad and keyboard to use, or you can use the iPad.
Your call.
iPad doesn't support flash, which means no redtube, youporn, etc.
My call is for the netbook. ;-)
Living With a Nerd
I guess you should ask them again once they have used the ipad to type in twenty email messages or blog comments.
Me and my business partner have been running a small coffee shop near a college for a couple of years now. I used to be a programmer, and he used to be a DBA, in our past lives. So we're familiar with technology.
Anyway, due to our location and business we get a lot of the so-called "hipster" crowd at our establishment. Don't get me wrong, they're great for business. There's little better than selling a specialty coffee at an 800% markup to these fools. But it's hilarious to hear them discuss Apple products.
When the iPad was first announced, you wouldn't believe the excitement these hipsters harbored. Some of them were literally crying when Jobs first showed it. My and my partner thought it was sort of fucked up how our customers were reacting to a pretty dismal product announcement. To these freaks, it's a religion.
You guys bashing don't get it. Your Netbooks will do more. That's the point. Apple is all about giving you the 50% of functions you need, and polishing the hell out of it.
My grandmother won't get a netbook. She will get an iPad. She's not encroaching on your geek demographic.
For you logic types, iPad potential customer base > Netbook targeted customer base.
It will win because it does less.
Until you understand that concept, stay in your sheltered Netbook world. Oh, and update your virus definitions. And defrag your disk. Be sure to reboot today. Oh, update those drivers, too.
I'm engaged to one that is pretty, very functional, AND low in cost ;-)
Living With a Nerd
One year ago - Slashdotters complaining about Flash on websites.
Now - Slashdotters complaining that Apple doesn't support Flash on products they'll never buy.
All this confusion! Which side do I root for? Apple or Flash? It's enough to make my head explode!
On the one hand, I want to criticize Apple's products for lacking features, and because of all those snobby hipsters wearing turtle necks. Heh heh heh, so smug with their cappucinos and art galleries!
On the other hand, its lack of features will help destroy my arch nemesis (Flash) and move the web toward standard ways of delivering video and interactive experiences.
It's enough to tear my Asperger's/semi-autistic mind in half!
Buckle your ROFL belt, we're in for some LOLs.
Yep. That's why Apple TV is such a success. My local stores can't keep 'em in stock.
Oh, wait.
Back on topic, why would anyone buy a netbook? I'd say 95% of netbook buyers fit into one of two categories. The first just wanted to buy the cheapest computer looking thing possible, the rest just want a cheap device to surf on.
The people who want the cheapest computer possible won't be satisfied with the iPad. This seems to be the /. crowd. "I can't install Linux". "But it won't play Borderlands." "I need Eclipse, Putty, and a keyboard at all times." The iPad doesn't cut it for these uses, it's not designed to be a normal computer. Of course, many people who buy netbooks just because they are so cheap get mad when the little 1 GHz Atom processor can't edit 1080p video or play complex games. Netbooks are not full laptops at $400 off, they're a different category.
If you just want a device to surf on, read your email, and maybe play a few games, the iPad seems to really fit the bill. I know of a couple of my relatives (not young) who this thing would be PERFECT for. No complicated filesystem. No confusing "where'd my program go" 30 window multitasking. The web works, email works, you can type up little things to email people either on screen or with the keyboard dock.
The thing really sounds like what most people want for a computer. If I didn't keep my laptop next to my couch for surfing, I'd buy one of these and it use it for that use. That alone would be enough to get me to buy it. Since it looks so different, Apple won't have the "this computer is way underpowered" problem, because I don't think anyone will see it as a MacBook Jr.
I find the iPad really interesting. It may take off like a rocket and change the industry (like the iPhone and iPod) or it could be and interesting thing that sits around but doesn't make a huge impact (like the Apple TV, although that wasn't nearly as groundbreaking, or MS's tablets, which survive but haven't really made a big difference for most people). Either way, this should be fun to watch.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
Doesn't hatin' on your own customers kind of put you in a similar moral position as those business owners who catered to the gay community in California but then turned around and voted against their equality? 'We'll take your money, but secretly we think you're pathetic...' No wonder you're posting as AC... ;-p
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you completely, it just seems disingenuous.
I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
What makes you think that once Youtube, Vimeo and other sites are comfy with HTML5 the pr0n industry won't follow?
Of course most of the people here don't get it. To most geeks, who suffer a minor form of stockholm syndrome when it comes to using computers (if you don't suffer, you're not a true power user), a user interface is a handful of UI buttons which postpend the correct command-line switches to the underlying command-line application.
Actually using a usability designer is foreign to most developers. And creating an environment which my mother can grok without a Ph.D. in Computer Science? Magic. Black fsckin' magic.
The sad part is that most developers I know don't have any interest in learning this form of magic, despite direct evidence (in Apple's growing coffers) that connecting to your users (and not calling them 'lusers' behind their backs) causes your users to want to throw gobs of money at you.
What the hell is all that crap? I just want to browse the web and update my facebook status from the couch without looking like a nerd.
Apple does not produce computing devices for nerds. They produce computing appliances for people.
For every action your normal joe wants to do, there is a relatively stable, secure, and predictable application to do it, which integrates well across the entire Apple platform. They deliver a candy coated information experience, not a platform for geeking out. I despise some parts of their business model, but it does seem to work out well for them.
She isn't low cost because she is cheap, she is low cost because she makes more money than I do :p
Special Ed teachers make more than mail merge programmers in Maryland, apparently.
Living With a Nerd
The people that buy netbooks already have other computers, but want an extremely portable way to do all of the above, and do it using the same software they use on their 'main' computer.
The thing really sounds like what most people want for a computer.
Sorry, but I have to disagree. It comes close to being what most people want. However, most people want the full internet and lack of Flash on the iPad prevents that. Most people want to be able to install any program they might choose in order to do task XYZ and unfortunately, that's just not happening with the way the iPhone / iPod Touch / iPad are locked down. Look around the App Store sometime, most of it is utter crap (I have an iPhone and love it, but I can count the number of worthwhile apps on my fingers). Most people also want to be able to easily copy over movies, pictures, and other files - the iPad only allows that for pictures (with the SD reader attachment). The hardware of the iPad is great (well, most people would also like to have a webcam), but the software side of it being so locked down hamstrings it.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
You know, I'm probably going to get modded down for this, but i have to say it anyway. To all you people keep saying how horrible the iPad is and how it's going to fail. You are wrong. Way wrong. Not only is the iPad going to totally succeed, but it's probably going to change computing as we know it. As people start using the closed iPad architecture, Apple will introduce more and more gadgets that use this architecture until they completely replace windows machines for most users. Sure they'll always be us geeks that prefer an open architecture, but for most users (my mom, your mom, etc.) the iPad does enough. You shouldn't stand in the way of this transition. It means no more tech support calls. No more 'my computer is full of viruses, can you fix it?' questions. This is the best thing that could ever possibly happen. Oh, and the iPad has a keyboard add-on, so all you people that say it has no keyboard, shut your holes. Disclaimer: No, i don't have a mac, No, I don't have an iPhone. I do however have an iPod touch and love it. However, nothing could ever replace my blackberry.
nothing says "I have a small penis" like owning something from Apple.
I don't want to be thinking things like that about my girlfriend...
Why not? As long as he doesn't call them fools to their faces, the hipsters will never know, and they'll never care.
And Latte's really are marked up that much, I mean seriously, it's about 2 tablespoons of moderate to high grade coffee, which will run you about $0.26 at retail prices, and probably less than that given you'll be buying in bulk. Add in two cups of milk (maybe $0.50 again), a couple shots of syrup, and bam! $6 drink. It takes all of 30 seconds for a professional Barrista to make, at $10 per hour that's $0.08. Of course you've got overhead and such, but depending on the volume you do that can be extremely low. Rough guestimate I'd say it costs between $1 and $2 to make a large double-shot latte, and those sell for $5-$6.
My rough guesstimate there puts it at anywhere from 300% to 600% markup (as long as you are doing good volume, if your coffee or location sucks it won't work no matter what), and I was probably a little high on materials cost for most places. Pretty good, I'd say.
Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
Doesn't hatin' on your own customers kind of put you in a similar moral position as those business owners who catered to the gay community in California but then turned around and voted against their equality? 'We'll take your money, but secretly we think you're pathetic...'
Coincidentally, that sounds a lot like Apple themselves.
"You don't know how to use a computer and wouldn't be able to manage most basic tasks. Here, try this iPad. It's not a computer, it's magical."
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Where can I buy an iPad?
OT but...
I don't see any logical incongruity with having a business that caters to the GLT community AND voting against equality. Under the law a business is a distinct entity, as is a private citizen. So it would be perfectly compatible to have a business catering to a demographic that you PERSONALLY do not approve of.
You do realize all of those complaints except multi-touch apply doubly so to the iPad, right? It is a less powerful machine that requires a dock for a keyboard, which isn't very portable.
This netbook with the keyboard is also about $100 less expensive than an iPad without the keyboard. The screen is only slightly smaller, and a bit lower resolution. Playing video full screen was a problem for the iPad as far as quality goes from the review I read, so I don't think that is as big a bonus as they would like it to be.
Plus, if you really dig the mobile OS's, with the touchbook you can put Android on it, which IMO is better than the iPhone OS.
In two months we'll be using something else...
Uhh, you know the iPad isn't even going to be released for another month at least, and given the way new device releases go you probably won't get your hands on one for another two or three months after that, minimum. Yet again you've listed something that's worse for the iPad and somehow implied it's a positive.
Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
One of the reasons Flash video took off so well over Real Player, Quicktime, and Windows media player is the players themselves were far lower footprint, worked, and seem to stream more seamlessly than any of their competitors - the user experience was better plain and simple (something most Apple people should recognize).
Every one of us has probably had the displeasure of a Real movie that just buffered and didn't play, windows media player that only works in IE, or Quicktime plugin that didn't quite buffer right and would play, then stop and then play and then stop constantly.
The reason Flash won was because it did none of these things, scaled to the speed of the client better, support a lot of different codecs, and worked on all a ton of platforms and devices (Flashlite has been supported for example on Windows Mobile, S60, Android, PSP, PS3, Maemo etc etc) - many of all these devices don't even support HTML5.
HTML5 - while it works, just doesn't offer the same user experience yet (at least in Firefox where I've tested it) - controls are clumsy for instance. And I've had several cases where the video never did come up.
I think content providers will continue to use what works and Flash still works better.