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Apple's HTML5 and Standards Gallery Not Standard
snitch writes "Apple has created an HTML5 Showcase that presents its vision for the next generation of the WWW. The fact that this page is only accessible using the Safari browser, while Apple advocates about web standards, has caused many to criticize the company's lack of broader platform support. The showcase demonstrates several HTML5 capabilities and features that have to do with video, typography, transitions, audio, etc. Further, on the front page the company states that 'Standards aren't add-ons to the web. They are the web. And you can start using them today.' The latter statement falls short by the fact that the featured examples only work with the Safari browser, and in the case of the CSS 3D transforms demonstration, require Mac OS X Snow Leopard (Safari PC or plain Leopard won't do)."
Worked for me in Chrome.
Disagree != mod troll.
Apple is Microsoft 2.0
Yeah, HTML5 is the future and as soon as we get rid of flash the better, but if you are going to try and show how its done, then do it right or don't do it at all, Apple.
Have a look at this: http://apirocks.com/html5/html5.html#slide1
This is a very nice demo that doesn't tell you to get XYZ browser. Sure, some parts might not work at all if you are not running on the latest chrome or webkit browser, but most demos work and I find it to be a nicer way of doing things (IMHO).
(This was part of a presentation done by some googlers about HTML5 a few months ago)
Uh, yeah Apple considering you can't even access the demos with anything other than Safari. Repeat, you cannot even try them because it gives you a Download Safari popup. It won't let you in. So it's not that other browsers aren't HTML5 compatible (Chrome) it's that Apple won't even let you try.
HTML5 is still a work in progress. They could have made a demo that only uses those features which are already widely supported, but it wouldn't have been as impressive. Or they could have made a demo that uses the latest bleeding-edge proposals for HTML5, and let it fail on most people's browsers - perhaps even worse.
Given that it's meant to be a showcase of things to come, it makes sense to require you to use the one browser that currently works with it. Even Mozilla sometimes releases demos that require the latest Firefox beta to test. Using browser sniffing to enforce it is certainly bad form, but they probably thought that otherwise people would just click through, see a broken demo, and not even realize they aren't seeing what they're meant to see. Hopefully they'll relax the restriction once (if) more browsers implement support for these proposed new features.
Apple tends to take standards that are in their infancy, and make them mainstream.
I don't see anything wrong with this, other than it making other browsers like FF3 look like they haven't been innovating.
Some of this (about a third) worked for me in Firefox with the user agent switcher add on. The default user agent switcher doesn't include safari but you can import them from the following URL. http://techpatterns.com/forums/about304.html
1) Select the Typography demo
2) Select "Pincoya Black fonts"
3) Enter a couple of lines of lower case "o" (they are underlined)
4) Rotate slowly so you see the step by step motion
What you'll see: spacing between each "o" varies at each rotation step, and you can see "steps" in the underlining. That wouldn't happen with flash.
Basically while the fonts are anti-aliased, the position of each letter is computed as an integer. In flash, every coordinate is computed in floating point.
Welcome back to pixel world.
If that were true you might have a point. But this is just Apple being the biggest company in IT. I checked the canvas pixel manipulation and the 360 deg demo on Linux x86_64 with firefox by faking a safari 4 user-agent string.
I'd say Microsoft 2.0 is quite to the point.
Once again Slashdot jumps to conclusions. The showcase is to promote Safari not web standards. The way the write up reads is that these are the web standards, and these are what they can do. Its blatant in the second paragraph, "The demos below show how the latest version of Apple’s Safari web browser, new Macs, and new Apple mobile devices all support the capabilities of HTML5, CSS3, and JavaScript." that they are promoting Safari and not web standards. This our toy and this is why it works better then yours is the message. Its Apple. If Apple were not so full of themselves all the time I'd think they were not following their mission statement. Showing me web standards that no one has implemented yet and only works on your browser is akin to giving me a 100 GHz processor writing a really graphics heavy OS (that only you sell), and has no application base, when the rest of the world has Windows 3.1.
What DRM? Do you have movies on it from the iTunes store?
Which in turn was given to us by an Apple engineer with a time machine.
Take that, causality!
Not the popular opinion, but think about it. M$ started out the same way.
- Get people hooked on the new-exciting-and-different (windows 3.1)
- you were a Luddite if you weren't adopting it
- People that new almost *nothing* about computers could "use" a computer
After the customer base was established, Microsoft Works came in and locked everyone into a proprietary format (they didn't know better). This was followed by Excel, Word and Access, and then Exchange.
Apple is taking the same road and once again people who don't know they don't know, don't know.
boycott slashdot February 10th - 17th check out: altSlashdot.org
The hypocrisy can be summed up on that single page:
Apple CEO Steve Jobs explains why iPhone, iPod touch, and iPad do not support Flash and why open standards are the future of the web.
This demo was designed with the latest web standards supported by Safari. If you’d like to experience this demo, simply download Safari.
The next keynote should just have two massive murals of Stalin flanking the podium while Big Brother Steve tells you what you'll be allowed to do with your own equipment. And when he announces that they are no longer preventing you from running certain applications, that will become a feature. I guess he did learn a thing or two from Mr. Gates.
Not that odd, really. Developers want to bang on things until they break. End users just want things to work. Ergo, the dev site lets you try the demos in any browser, while the end user site makes sure you have a browser that supports the demos 100%.
Why this is a story I have no idea. Mozilla, Google, and the WebKit team have been adding non-standard features and making tech demos that only work on specific versions of their own browser for years, but no one thinks they're trying to fragment the industry. Apple puts a browser detect on a page to ensure an end user demo works without a hiccup and geeks everywhere are up in arms. Go figure.
How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
Yeah, like it's possible to do. But just think about it - WebKit was forked from KHTML is 1998. Were you using a web browser in 1998?
I was using Mosaic on Linux back when you had to have Motif and build it yourself.
It should be ENTIRELY possible to figure out where the code came from in WebKit. But keep in mind that it first started with KHTML and further has received significant contributions from a variety of sources. Apple claims only to have done the "majority" of work since the fork. The WebKit Wiki in fact credits other developers for many major features.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Shock! horror! Apple are using their own website to push Safari and claim that their own browsers are ahead of the game on standards support? The bastards!!!
In large friendly letters on the page in question (my emphasis):
The demos below show how the latest version of Apple’s Safari web browser, new Macs, and new Apple mobile devices all support the capabilities of HTML5, CSS3, and JavaScript. Not all browsers offer this support. But soon other modern browsers will take advantage of these same web standards — and the amazing things they enable web designers to do.
Note how that doesn't say "Here's a handy resource to allow you to objectively compare different browsers' HTML 5 implementations"? That is because you are looking at an advert for Safari! As is traditional in these "adverts" it is trying to get you to download and try Safari, not find out how close the competition comes. In other news, if you go to a Mercedes dealership they're not going to offer you test drives in a BMW...
Wake me up if anybody smart enough to spoof their browser ID finds out whether Apple's demos use undocumented or non-standard features (rather than ones which don't work in Firefox, yet).
In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
That's not DRM.
The device is vertically integrated, and tied to iTunes, but DRM is a very specific term that relates to the "protection" of media content.
But it's ok, because copyright infringement is the same as piracy right? It's ok to play fast and loose with the definitions when it suits you.
At the bottom of every page, there is a link to
http://developer.apple.com/safaridemos/
On this page, there are duplicates that are not UA restricted, which you can test with whatever browser you like, and download the implementation code.
User agent detection is appropriate on the consumer (www.apple) page, since that's an executive summary. Most people on that page are not going to understand why it isn't working, since they don't even know what browser they're using, unless Apple actually bars the door.
So DRM has gone the way of "bricked" and "literally" then.
Maybe the French were on to something with managing their language.
http://i.imgur.com/cT08B.png Well, seems like Chrome is more compatible with HTML5 than Safari is, so why limit the demo to Safari only?
"Die endgueltige Teilung Deutschlands - das ist unser Auftrag." - Chlodwig Poth
It's a demo of Safari's HTML 5 capability. Of Course you need safari to use it.
Frankly that's the equivalent of Microsoft doing an HTML4 showcase on IE6. If you're locking out other browsers you're indeed missing the point of what a standard is for.
This was the executive summary for general public consumption.
If you wanted to look at the demos on other browsers, all you had to do was go to the http;//developer.apple.com/safaridemos/ link. Again, not everything will work on non-safari browers but most of them will work on the latest chrome.
This is all about presenting the technology to the average user in the best light when other browsers are still playing catchup.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
That page does't do useragent checking, all it does is fail(maybe) on other browsers.
All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
See http://www.seamonkey-project.org/doc/2.0/geolocation for a description of the how & why. In short, yes, the geolocation info comes from Google.
When you visit a location-aware website, SeaMonkey will ask you if you want to share your location.
If you consent, SeaMonkey gathers information about nearby wireless access points and your computer's IP address. Then SeaMonkey sends this information to the default geolocation service provider, Google Location Services, to get an estimate of your location. That location estimate is then shared with the requesting website.
If you say that you do not consent, SeaMonkey will not do anything.
The English word fart is one of the oldest words in the English vocabulary.
Back when the iPhone first came out, and people were shrieking for native development, Steve Jobs announced his "sweet spot", which was the ability to write web apps for the thing (??). To support this position, Apple posted on their development site guidelines on best practices for modern web apps. These guidelines specifically advise against using browser sniffing (except under certain rare conditions which are not met here). One should instead use object detection.
Here are those guidelines. The document lists at length all the reasons not to engage in browser sniffing which are rehashed here. Basically there may be low or no correlation between the information in the user agent string and the browser's abilities. For example all browsers claim to be Mozilla, but it doesn't mean they all have the same feature set as Mozilla's Firefox.
Apple's developers who wrote this gallery appear not to have read this document, or more generally to understand the purpose of web standards at all. Apple's new HTML5 gallery touts standards, but it flouts all the goals of standards. The point of standards is that we can target a standard, rather than a browser. Apple violates the entire purpose, and deserves censure for this hypocrisy.
By far Apple ain't biggest in IT, they are way smaller compared to some other companies. Say, HP, Dell, Microsoft, Nokia.
Apple is the largest company, by market capitalization, from the ones you mentioned.
After the customer base was established, Microsoft Works came in and locked everyone into a proprietary format
And how is Apple doing this? The webkit tags they are using, work in pretty much any up-to-date webkit browsers - which included Android or just about any other popular mobile device.
Apple is explicitly not locking you in, instead of going down that road they are strongly promoting a standard (HTML-5) and a powerful rendering engine (Webkit) that anyone can use.
Where's the locki-n?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
So Microsoft Internet 5 cannot do HTML 5? Damn, who woulda thunk it...
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
It was odd seeing a Mozilla dev talking about them fully supporting HTML5. They may support almost as many features, but they all run like ass. Seriously, most HTML5 demos I see on Firefox aren't unusable because some feature isn't implement, but that they are just far too slow.
Safari's and Chrome's JavaScript engines are running circles around Firefox right now. I don't know why anyone interesting in HTML5 would even bother with Firefox. WebKit is eating their lunch.
The fact that you claim the developer link doesn't require UA spoofing, even though any attempt to actually view the demo through that page brings up the very same "You’ll need to download Safari to view this demo" message, shows how absolutely blinded you are by your need to defend Apple. Slashdot isn't the evil one here.
Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
On a Mac, Safari gets 120 and Chrome gets 142... Strange.
Although why any browser supports Geolocation worries me. Maybe it's just because Google makes Chrome.
I vote that someone makes a standards-only-compliant browser. No site-specific hacks, so that web designers can just test the page once in that, and if it works there, it should work in any standards-compliant browser.