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BP Buys "Oil Spill" Search Term

technology_dude found an unsurprising but amusing little story that BP is buying keywords on Google and Yahoo for things like "Oil Spill" to help spin some damage control. I guess if you can't plug your spill, the least you can do is try to clog the flow of information.

439 comments

  1. have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by swschrad · · Score: 3, Insightful

    how about they concentrate their efforts a mile down instead?

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
    1. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by lennier1 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Before you know it they'll buy other applicable terms like "criminal negligence" as well.

    2. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Pojut · · Score: 1

      It's all about the publicity.

    3. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Leebert · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Good question. I mean, I hear that the janitors are still cleaning the toilets in BP headquarters! Where are their priorities?!

      Seriously, they're a big company, they can focus on more than one thing at a time... It's like the Mythical Man-Month -- Just throwing resources at the problem isn't necessarily going to make it better, and could well make it worse.

    4. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Yvan256 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Don't give them ideas.

    5. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Yvan256 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's not that they're doing more than one thing at a time, it's that they're trying to get the top results for "oil spill" so that real news are pushed down the list of results.

    6. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by PhilHibbs · · Score: 2, Interesting

      How exactly can the PR and marketing department assist a mile underwater? Answer, they can't. BP has to survive as a company in order to be able to fix the problem and make amends. They could go bust, but how would that help anyone?

    7. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Kell+Bengal · · Score: 1

      And there's no such thing as bad publicity, right?
      ...
      Right?

      --
      Scientists point out problems, engineers fix them
      altslashdot.org: The future of slashdot.
    8. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Leebert · · Score: 1

      That's not what I was replying to. The OP was criticizing their allocation of resources. Your criticism has merit, I agree.

    9. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "It's like the Mythical Man-Month -- Just throwing resources at the problem isn't necessarily going to make it better, and could well make it worse."

      What a load of toss! The cleaning of the gulf is an embarrassingly parallel problem, lots of people can work at the same time as they work on different parts of the land. The Man-Month is not applicable here, as the source code and the system is a shared resource. I would bet a lot of money that you can't do concurrency very well, as you don't seem to understand it!

    10. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Boycot Arco stations!

    11. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by symes · · Score: 0

      As it happens, I'm increasingly impressed with what they are doing... Obama is unfortunately victim to the US press while BP, bar a few ludicrous statements by their CEO, have been focussed on getting what is a pretty difficult situation under control. When you think back over oil spills in history I don't think there's been a more proactive response. For once, those affected are getting compensation early (usually victims have to go through lengthy court processes), they are putting up the cash for the clean up, and so on. And no, I'm not a shill. So I'm not surprised that they are also buying up keywords so that their voice stands a chance of being heard over the US media hysteria.

    12. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Lumpy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How exactly can the PR and marketing department assist a mile underwater?

      use their bodies to plug up the well?

      Honestly it's the best use for marketing and PR people....

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    13. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's not like anybody is going to confuse a site on bp.com with real news.

      Probably the reason is that reporting of the oil spill cleanup efforts are riddled with inaccuracies and falsehoods. I was reading several news organizations reports on the "top hat" approach a month or so ago and the amount of variability was insane, given that all they had to do was accurately re-print what BP Engineering had published. Some papers actually claimed it was "ice" clogging up the device for goodness sake.

      People like to make out that corporate PR is some kind of money-based mind control mechanism. And a small amount actually is that (typically the dedicated PR firms). But having seen in-house corporate PR men do their work first hand, it became apparent that 99% of the effort is just trying to ensure journalists don't screw up basic facts.

      Now if BP are publishing things on their landing pages that are verifiably false then my argument doesn't stand, but I doubt that. Even the how-much-oil-spills debacle seems likely to be genuine disagreement rather than a real attempt to mislead.

    14. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      Seriously, they're a big company, they can focus on more than one thing at a time

      you forgot the word successfully. The reason is because although some companies can focus on spreading out their efforts, BP is not doing so in an ethical/good way.

      searching for oil spill inforrmation pertaining to BP is now harder to find legitimate results. I hope someone runs a bot to up their costs per click a whole ton.

    15. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by six11 · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's like the Mythical Man-Month -- Just throwing resources at the problem isn't necessarily going to make it better, and could well make it worse.

      I'm not sure about that. While Brooks was talking about software and computer hardware engineers, I'm sure you weren't literally talking about plugging the hole with BP engineers. It would be more logical to use BP executives, since they know more about oil flow than computer nerds. Just a hypothesis to test: We would have to actually try stuffing the pipe with BP executives to see if that would stop the flow. And unlike Brooks's theory, I suspect using more BP executives would improve improve the pipe somewhat linearly. Once you run out of C-level and VP-level BP people you could move on to Haliburton.

      I suppose getting past IRB on that little science experiment would be rather difficult, however.

    16. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2, Funny

      Just a hypothesis to test: We would have to actually try stuffing the pipe with BP executives to see if that would stop the flow.

      They already tried that - remember the 'junk shot'? They even let the execs bring their golf stuff along.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    17. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Leebert · · Score: 1

      I would bet a lot of money that you can't do concurrency very well, as you don't seem to understand it!

      As a matter of fact, I absolutely loathe concurrent programming. But I'm not stupid, I do certainly understand parallelism.

      My response was to the OP who was complaining about "focusing their efforts a mile down", which clearly is a criticism about killing the well, not mitigating the environmental damage.

      Regardless, even THERE I'm not convinced that just throwing people onto beaches and saying "OK, start cleaning up!" is necessarily helpful. I don't think you've ever experienced having a hoarde of people show up to "help" do something that they don't know how to do. Try working a rock concert load-in some time and see what happens when lots of inexperienced people show up to "help". It can (and does) take more time than just the experienced people doing it, and can result in damage to equipment and facilities.

      If loads of untrained people are in fact somehow useful, then that's a great application for our military (what's left of it, anyway), where there is an existing command structure, support structure, equipment, etc. and thus probably the best place to start.

      Please kindly restrict your responses to discussions of the issues, and not ad hominem attacks about my programming abilities.

    18. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      how about they concentrate their efforts a mile down instead?

      Because the trouble didn't start until something got opened up down there!

    19. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by diablovision · · Score: 1

      Sorry to burst your bubble, but ads do not influence Google search results. Search results are computed and ranked completely independent of ads. It doesn't matter how much you pay Google for your ad campaign, it won't influence what is shown in the search results. Search engine optimization on the other hand....

      --
      120 characters isn't enough to explain it.
    20. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by AnAdventurer · · Score: 1

      rarely does the throwing of real resources at a problem "well make it worse". Perhaps you are from the BP PR department feeling a bit defensive (It's OK, it appears that's the job over there)

      --
      6.8SPC TR of 550, l xwind at 6, drift rt at 26" drops 77". AT has 503 ft-lbs at 1403 fps. FT 0.86
    21. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by jda104 · · Score: 1

      How exactly can the PR and marketing department assist a mile underwater?

      use their bodies to plug up the well?

      Honestly it's the best use for marketing and PR people....

      Only on /. would this be rated as "Insightful" instead of "Funny"...

    22. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would prefer then use their bodies to plug the whole. It would be more valorous.

    23. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by meerling · · Score: 1

      At a company I used to work for (I was in tech support) we were always going down to marketing to yell at them to stop lying to the customers.
      I swear those douchebags would have told people our software would make instantly transform your feces into solid 24 karat gold it they thought it would get them a chance at 1 sale.
      Trying to clean up after their B.S. was a full time job, and then some. Imagine how ticked off a 28,000 seat customer can get when you have to tell him that no software on the planet can do that specific action, especially since it breaks the laws of physics.

      Now I'm sure there are good and honest people in marketing and maybe even PR, but I've never seen them.

    24. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by meerling · · Score: 1

      sorry, forgot about some exceptions I have seen. Small companies can be absolutely fantastic and completely honest. I've worked with one such company. It's total personnel was under 30 people. They even have a greeter dog in the front. Great folks, and they really care about their customers, even to the point of completely rewriting part of their software because another company was changing their license to something that would burden this companies customers with extra stuff they'd have to deal with. (Compare that to the large company that wouldn't fix an obvious problem that was going to snowball because they didn't want to crack open the kernel...)

    25. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by TheLink · · Score: 1

      I don't see how that will help.

      Maybe it's about finding out how many people in the world are really interested in "oil spill".

      --
    26. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Leebert · · Score: 2, Insightful

      rarely does the throwing of real resources at a problem "well make it worse".

      Forgive me, but that is kind of a naïve position to take. We're talking about marketing people, here. They are otherwise useless. ;)

      But seriously, you want BP to send marketing people down to the Gulf to help shut off an oil well? Or even to help clean up the spill? (which is likely more resource and equipment constrained, than people constrained) When it comes to certain tasks, you CAN'T just throw unequipped, inexperienced/untrained resources at it. I admit to not knowing for certain that this is the case here.

      Perhaps you are from the BP PR department feeling a bit defensive

      Look, BP deserves to be crucified for this. More than they will be, and we all know that. But that doesn't mean I'm going to shut off my capability to use logic and reason.

    27. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The are not concentrating on the spill because they know as they already knew that there was little to nothing they could do. Even the relief wells are no guarantee either.
      Last time we had a gusher in the gulf, the Ixtoc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ixtoc_I_oil_spill) oil continued to flow for three months after completing the first relief well.

      And generally, one's got to wonder if there is any relationship between the ending of the gusher and the effort applied to cap them. I mean that the 100% success option is to wait for the pressure to naturally subside to a more reasonable rate or drill holes around the other attempting to suck some of the pressure away from the original drill spot. But in the end... we can only wait and hope this is not long lived.

      When I compare this spill response to that of Ixtoc, I am suddenly aware that a large portion of the capping effort is really about delaying. I feel the company is well aware that all of their options are low to nil percentage of success... still when run in succession, they do pass time and eventually the flow will stop on its own.

    28. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Firehed · · Score: 1

      Most people don't recognize that the first one or two results are paid advertisements, despite them being wrapped in a fairly obvious yellow box. So while it doesn't affect the organic search results, buying google ads most certainly does affect the overall results.

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
    29. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Leebert · · Score: 1

      You fail to understand that BP has been doing major spin control since day one.

      And that has what to do with this thread? The original poster complained about BP not focusing on fixing the well, I said they certainly could be focusing on fixing it while also doing marketing work to repair their image. I made no judgment as to the ethics of the marketing effort.

      moron.

      Yeah, I think I'm done with this thread. You'd think after 12 years or so of /., I'd be used to people floating ad hominem attacks for no reason, but I always forget and end up trying to have a grown-up discussion. I'm sure I'll make that mistake yet again at some point, but I've definitely learned my lesson (again) today.

    30. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Shoe+Puppet · · Score: 1

      Sometimes, the BP ad is shown quite prominently just above the regular results, though.

      --
      (+1, Disagree)
    31. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you click the link? The site is providing factual information on the spill and public and private efforts to solve the problem.
      They aren't selling products.

      I give BP kudos for trying to keep the public informed on their efforts to fix this serious problem.

    32. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The fact that this was modded insightful made me laugh out loud. Awesome.

    33. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by QuantumRiff · · Score: 1

      Not really. Their is no blood to freeze, and no spine to jam up the pipe. They would just leak back out the top. In fact, with the near freezing temperatures, their heart would be in its most ideal temperature zone. Putting them under that kind of pressure would just cause them to make up new features,and dump them on engineering anyways.

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    34. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by eth1 · · Score: 1

      If we're lucky, someone at Google will give them those for free

    35. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by dominious · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Listen. Yesterday i did type "oil spill" in google search and got into the bp website, where i found that they have a suggestions page and a volunteer page and I could actually participate for solving this problem. I think it is much more helpful for everyone if bp handles these search terms.

      Or do you prefer to get a massive amount of hate webpages from bloggers that would actually do no difference to the actual problem?

    36. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      RIAA Lawyers too. Their rhetoric could curdle water. My guess is that the rate at which they file vexatious and frivolous lawsuits could easily overpower the 150,000 psi the oil is gushing out at.

    37. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by PingPongBoy · · Score: 1

      It's like the Mythical Man-Month -- Just throwing resources at the problem isn't necessarily going to make it better

      Here's an idea that's been spinning in my head for the last couple of days. But of course BP is flooded with ideas so I'll just post it on Slashdot to see if the world hypes it or tells me how stupid it is.

      And maybe we'll have a Reality Man Month - so here goes: The riser pipe has be cut so the whole thing sticking out of the sea floor is vertical. The situation has been simplified. While the Top Hat is funneling some oil up, they should throw some very simple resouurces like rocks and sand all around the blowout preventer, to make a mound. The mound is to ensure that the blowout preventer doesn't topple over. After this shoring up, lower a large "cork" on this bottle of champagne, and clamp it down. Finally, put the Top Hat back on to catch the crap leaking out the edges. This will significantly reduce the flow rate. This task wouldn't take more than a week, and the situation would be highly improved even as the ships on top need to scurry away during hurricanes.

      --
      Know your pads. One time pad: good for cryptography. Two timing pad: where to take your mistress.
    38. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by rhsanborn · · Score: 3, Informative

      The problem is, apparently, that the well is incredibly unstable. They had a list of other ideas in the event that their "top kill" method didn't work. They didn't even try them because they were seeing pressure numbers and other signs that the well was unstable. They are, reportedly, afraid that if they try to stop the flow completely at the blowout preventer that the pressure will destroy the blowout preventer and the well creating a huge, uncontrolled leak that is coming out of many more places and at a higher volume than is currently coming out of that riser pipe.

    39. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by lymond01 · · Score: 1

      Meh. Try a Google search. The purchased results are clearly marked in yellow, similar to product placement results. News is directly under their two results. I'm not bothered.

    40. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Fnkmaster · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If by "real news" you mean "more media hype" then yes. We get it - the oil spill is an environmental disaster. It's bad for BP, it's really bad for fisherman in the Gulf, and it's generally bad for the economy in all the Gulf states, and it's definitely bad for the marine ecosystem.

      BP has already suffered a near crippling blow. They have lost *100 billion* dollars in market cap. The CEO is going to be toast along with quite a few other people as soon as they have the situation calmed down - the board just doesn't want to toast him until things quiet down a bit. The other companies involved, Transocean, Andarko, etc. have suffered proportionally similar blows, accounting for 10s of billions of dollars in additional market cap wiped out.

      And the sad thing is that the "punish BP" bloodlust is just going to result in thousands of decent Americans who work in the energy industry losing jobs in the inevitable restructurings that will come, and those jobs will end up going elsewhere, since we still will be consuming the oil here.

      The only worse penalty BP as a corporate organization could pay at this point is a firesale takeover (because their successor will have to eat the huge contingent liability here). If somebody or somebodies at BP were negligent or actively broke safety regulations, then by all means, they should be criminally prosecuted for their actions. Top execs will already pay the price when they get the boot from their cushy jobs for the poor oversight they have exercised. If they did something criminal, they should be prosecuted too.

      But this ... obsession ... with personalizing "BP" as some sort of entity that has committed an evil act that we can "punish" in any way further than has already been done is baffling to me. People - it's *been* punished. There are a bunch of marketing and PR weenies on staff at BP and they are just trying to do their jobs here. There's nothing wrong with them promoting the site they put up as a source of information for the public about the oil spill.

      What's more, at this point, more economic damage is actually being done by media hype than by oil itself. The damage to the Florida tourism industry isn't being caused by a few tar balls that washed up, it's being caused by panicked morons canceling their vacations because of what they saw on the news. While I'm all for BP and friends covering the costs of actual damage from their oil spill, I don't think it's reasonable to hold anybody other than the media accountable for the damage from their hype machine, and I can't blame BP's PR people for trying to do what they can to get their side of the story out there (as long as they aren't simply lying about it).

    41. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by zill · · Score: 1

      Some papers actually claimed it was "ice" clogging up the device for goodness sake.

      Ice
      2 : a substance resembling ice; especially : the solid state of a substance usually found as a gas or liquid

    42. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by blair1q · · Score: 1

      Well, all they get is the one top result, an the other 950,999,999 are pushed down by all of one slot thereby.

      And the result they get is in a box of a different color, so my ocular scanning firmware skips right past it thinking it's a banner ad (which it is).

      So the only effect is that the 10th result shows up on the second page instead of the first (or in my case, the 100th gets pushed past the jump, because that's how i configured google to roll).

      So your cynicism is misplaced. They're not trying to hide anything of significance (or if they are, they're not doing it at all well).

      What they actually paid for was to have their PR site at the top of the results, so that it doesn't disappear into the pile, and at least a few people will see it, preferably those with access to replicators of visibility, like, say, people looking for an easy submission acceptance from /. ...

    43. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's absolutely awesome that parent post is moderated +5 Insightful and not Funny :D

    44. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by AGMW · · Score: 1
      Yep ... what this guy said!

      Now where are my mod points ...

      --
      Eclectic beats from Leeds, UK
      handmadehands.co.uk
    45. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by shentino · · Score: 1

      Yeah, someone doing a search on "oil spill" is going to be pointed right at BP.

      Nice way to get the publicity machine running completely bass ackwards.

    46. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by russotto · · Score: 1

      But seriously, you want BP to send marketing people down to the Gulf to help shut off an oil well? Or even to help clean up the spill?

      Just toss them in the oil-fouled water as entertainment for those doing the cleaning up. Should improve morale tremendously (among the workers, not the marketing people).

    47. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by gringofrijolero · · Score: 1

      Seeing as how they're fucking the rest of us, they are now part of the mile down club,

      --
      Todos mis movimientos están friamente calculados
    48. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Too much pressure, damaged (internally and externally) blowout preventer might not be able to handle the pressure, even if we "shore it up". If it does fail again it could blow the blowout preventer entirely off the (probably damaged) pipe it sits on, and judging from the track record on this so far.. (Top hat, top kill, junk shot, cutting the pipe, not to mention the originally series of events that brought us here).

      If the blowout preventer gets knocked off the pipe it sits on, we could have a much larger flow of oil into the ocean, as its believed the blowout preventer is slowing the flow somewhat. The oil is pouring out of the preventer.. even though there is a mile's worth of water pressure pushing down.. thats a LOT of pressure pushing up.

    49. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by OakDragon · · Score: 1

      Quite being so reasonable!

      Another funny thing - apparently public opinion wants to push Obama to be "more angry" about this thing. God help him, the poor guy is trying. I think in another week he'll be ripping his shirt off behind the podium.

    50. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by DriedClexler · · Score: 1

      They could go bust, but how would that help anyone?

      I believe the term is "pour encourager les autres".

      --
      Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
    51. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by sshir · · Score: 1
      I agree with your main point, but...

      They could go bust, but how would that help anyone?

      Actually it would help. For example as a lesson in corporate governance (proper risk assessment etc.)

    52. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by ildon · · Score: 1

      Clearly the marketing department should be driving the ROV's and engineering new ways to capture the leaking oil.

    53. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by AGMW · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Yep ... that seems to cover it.

      Oddly, the situations is somewhat more complex than the army of armchair deep sea drilling experts suspect. LMAO @ "... lower a large cork ..."! You'll be suggesting they just put a tray under the sump plug and drain it from there next!

      Anyone who honestly thinks BP isn't doing E V E R Y T H I N G in its power to stem the flow is a fool. Apart from the pollution considerations, the bad PR, and of course not forgetting the clamour from the large cork manufactures now wanting a slice of the action, if they're now pulling 10000 barrels a day from that well and a barrel runs at around 70 bucks ... well, I'd say you do the math(s) but someone might suggest I lower a cork on it so I'll do it for ya - $700000!
      That they are also trying to stem the flow of bad publicity is totally understandable too, because people keep posting asshat ideas like "lower a large cork" and all the numbnuts dolts read that and nod saying, "yer ... why dontcha just lower a large cork BP? Eh? Why dontcha?". And people cheering when buffoons suggest that the whole company should concentrate their efforts a mile down instead - does he expect every PA, secretary, programmer, lorry driver, pump attendant, etc, to all be controlling their own ROV at the site?

      Now I'm not saying BP are squeaky clean in this - my guess is that BP suspect that capping the well is nigh on impossible without the relief wells easing the pressure though obviously they'll keep trying - but to think they don't want to stop the oil flow is frankly as ludicrous a concept as having every BP employee lowering their very own large cork!

      As Fnkmaster (89084) wrote: (on Tuesday June 08, @01:49PM (#32499016)) ... the "punish BP" bloodlust ... is crazy when so many Americans work in the industry as all you're doing is shooting yourselves in the foot! If BP doesn't do the deep drilling someone else will and maybe the next company to do it won't be hiring so many Americans and pumping so much money into the US economy?

      --
      Eclectic beats from Leeds, UK
      handmadehands.co.uk
    54. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here's the solution: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=125721827457718

    55. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The CEO is going to be toast along with quite a few other people as soon as they have the situation calmed down - the board just doesn't want to toast him until things quiet down a bit.

      He'll be very rich toast. We should all be so unlucky as that asshole.

    56. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by AndersOSU · · Score: 2, Informative

      People reading newspapers don't know what methyl hydrates and clathrates are. Ice is a reasonable description for something that is liquid under STP, but solid at the bottom of the ocean.

    57. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Foobar+of+Borg · · Score: 1
      That's not an ad hominem, you goddamn idiot. It is an insult.

      For example, if someone says 2 + 2 = 4, they would be correct. But, by your "logic", if they said "2 + 2 = 4, moron!" they would be wrong.

      Please, go die in a fire. You fail at logic and you fail at life.

    58. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The CEO is going to be toast along with quite a few other people as soon as they have the situation calmed down

      I'd like to be toast like that. I bet he retires with a wonderful golden parachute and extra bonuses for ending his contract early. These guys face very little downside.

    59. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by AndersOSU · · Score: 1

      *snort*
      BP may be working diligently to resolve the matter, but they've showed no interest in keeping the public informed - other than to say we're trying everything we can think of.

      Really, it doesn't matter how much oil is flowing.

      We think there is 1000 barrels a day.

      There's no underwater oil plumes

      Etc. etc.

    60. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      @Fnkmaster
      I think this applies to you..

    61. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Chris+Burke · · Score: 5, Insightful

      BP has already suffered a near crippling blow. They have lost *100 billion* dollars in market cap. ... 10s of billions of dollars in additional market cap wiped out.

      Oh noes, not market cap! That's the thing about market cap -- it can be wiped out instantly, but it can come back too, and the only people who lose anything are the ones who sold while it was down. If BP was planning on buying out a smaller oil company using shares of their stock, well, now would be a bad time to do that. Oh noes!

      In the meantime, BP continues to make real profits to the tune of tens of millions per day.

      I'm not saying it's not a blow, but it's hardly crippling. Companies can continue to operate and make substantial profits even after tremendous stock price drops. And if BP does continue to make money, then their stock price will recover.

      And the sad thing is that the "punish BP" bloodlust is just going to result in thousands of decent Americans who work in the energy industry losing jobs in the inevitable restructurings that will come, and those jobs will end up going elsewhere, since we still will be consuming the oil here.

      It's an odd mentality, where the cause-and-effect here wouldn't be the obvious "Executive negligence in their company losing many jobs", but rather "the public caring that the executives cut corners and ignored signs because it would cost time and thus money resulted in this disaster, and subsequent job loss".

      Yes, obviously the solution is that we should not care!

      No. If people attributed cause and effect correctly, maybe we'd get some real change around here.

      Top execs will already pay the price when they get the boot from their cushy jobs for the poor oversight they have exercised. If they did something criminal, they should be prosecuted too.

      Oh noes they'll be fired from their cushy jobs! They might have to lay low living off their scant millions for a while before getting a cushy VP job somewhere else because the last thing the incestuous network of corporate executives and board members want is to raise standards.

      Nothing short of criminal prosecution will be any kind of real punishment. I'm not holding my breath on the end result, but at least one thing is going right.

      But this ... obsession ... with personalizing "BP" as some sort of entity that has committed an evil act that we can "punish" in any way further than has already been done is baffling to me. People - it's *been* punished.

      Yeah, by only making half as much net profit -- estimates of BP's efforts at cleanup and stopping the leak per day are about half of their net profit per day.

      Oh, the punishment! Their Q2 and Q3 earnings statements will be less glowing! They may be penalized in the market, until the expected profits return! Please. Call me when they go into the red, even for a single quarter.

      By the way, the obsession with personalizing a corporation as some sort of entity unto itself has been the obsession of the corporate executives since early last century. Is it any wonder that we have bought into the delusion that "BP" can do anything on its own? "Corporate personhood" is their baby.

      If you want to end that delusion, I'm all for it. But realize that the executives themselves are on the other side of this one from you, as is for that matter the law.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    62. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Chowderbags · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Top execs will already pay the price when they get the boot from their cushy jobs for the poor oversight they have exercised.

      Yeah, where's the sympathy for those poor executives. How will Tony Hayward survive without his 2.5 million pound compensation package? If he gets fired and can't find another job, he might have to live in only semi-luxury for the rest of his life! The horror!

    63. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by suomynonAyletamitlU · · Score: 1

      No, I'm pretty sure it would happen in lots of places where otherwise intelligent people are sick and fucking tired of being "sold" a bad situation--and lies.

      PR and Marketing are most useful when you don't have good news--for "hard sells". It's not their only use, but it's a big one. The problem is that the easiest way to do hard sells is to lie, cheat, and evade.

      For instance, if BP had jumped on this situation and fixed everything in a week or two, PR and Marketing could have run an ad campaign that said, "Hey, when something threatened to become a crisis, we jumped on it, because we're not a shitty company that would just let things fall to shit around us." It would only have run a couple weeks or something though, because nobody would know about it or care. The few people that did might be impressed, though.

      However, they DID let things fall to shit around them. Now they have to explain why BP itself should not be seen forever after as the Gulf Oil Spill Disaster Company. But they should be seen as the Gulf Oil Spill Disaster Company--until such time as every single part of the company that was responsible for the disaster (where the disaster is the poor effort, not the actual well breakage) is purged from it and run outta town, and then they can be allowed back at the dinner table. They shouldn't even be trying to sell themselves as responsible (in the good sense of the word) right now, but that's what PR/M is for. And it IS gonna be a Hard Sell.

    64. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by AscianBound · · Score: 1

      By far the best thing about this comment is that it's listed as "Insightful" instead of "Funny"

    65. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by colourmyeyes · · Score: 1

      Your rock concert load-in is a great example. I worked as a stagehand for several years (still hold an active union membership) and I know precisely what you're talking about. Five hands who know what they're doing are so much better, and safer, than 15 who don't. I don't really have anything to add, just wanted to say that from experience I found your example interesting and apt.

      --
      My grandmother used anecdotal evidence all the time, and she lived to be 120 years old.
    66. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the psycological term for what you're doing is called "projection". Have fun in your mom's basement.

    67. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by skids · · Score: 1

      No doubt. Now when I need to buy "oil spill" they'll be listed right at the top of providers of "oil spill."

      They are after all the leading provider of "oil spill."

    68. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by GreyWolf3000 · · Score: 1

      A sign of the times is that posts like this and Fnkmaster's would attract intelligent posters to rebut and engage in intelligent, fruitful discourse. Now, people steer clear of responding to posts they disagree with, and the people that disagree are stuck writing "me too" posts in the "BP must burn in Hell" threads.

      Does anyone else notice the trend towards people only engaging in discussions with people they agree with?

      --
      Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
    69. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Xyrus · · Score: 1

      No they have not been punished. The company remains practically unscathed. The notional stock value has not impacted their profits. They're still raking in money hand over fist. At their profit margins the cost of this spill won't make any serious dent. And even if it did, they'll pull an Exxon-Valdez and tie up any judgment in court for so long that they pay a fraction of what they should.

      Anyone who had critical oversight or decision making power over what was going on should be brought up on criminal charges. The excuse of "I was just following orders" has no legal standing. People KNEW there were problems (almost a year in advance), and did nothing about it. At best, that's criminal negligence.

      You are seriously deluding yourself if you think BP has been punished. Those responsible have not been punished. BP has so far suffered no lasting harm (perhaps a name change in a few years to sweep all this under the rug). It wouldn't be the first time.

      --
      ~X~
    70. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by kumma · · Score: 1

      I love the sound of you words: it would had been economically beneficial to care about security and environment. Yes. Sounds nice.

    71. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Fnkmaster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nice rant. I'll only bother with addressing the parts with content.

      It's an odd mentality, where the cause-and-effect here wouldn't be the obvious "Executive negligence in their company losing many jobs", but rather "the public caring that the executives cut corners and ignored signs because it would cost time and thus money resulted in this disaster, and subsequent job loss".

      I don't know how you got this from what I said. I never suggested that the public caring about the environment is to blame for lost jobs - I said that panicked vacation cancellations are to blame for more damage to local economies than the *actual* damage from the oil spill up to this point. And that a media frenzy contributes to this panic reaction.

      Oh, the punishment! Their Q2 and Q3 earnings statements will be less glowing! They may be penalized in the market, until the expected profits return! Please. Call me when they go into the red, even for a single quarter.

      Well they already have been penalized by the market. I realize that reflects expected future losses that haven't been realized yet, and that those losses in any given year probably won't be larger than their profits, but what's your point? This all reflects their assumption of a large contingent liability from this mess they created.

      You are suggesting by repeatedly using the diminutive phrase "oh noes" that this isn't *real* punishment, but you fail to make clear what you think *real* punishment for a corporate entity is. Expropriation of assets by the Federal government and transfer to a state-owned oil corporation? Forced liquidation of the firm? I put forward the suggestion that these would all fail to create additional deterrence and principally have lots of negative consequences for people that weren't at fault in this incident.

      I suggested in the first place that criminal negligence should be fully prosecuted against relevant individuals. I stand by that. Of course, many corporations would love to be able to operate under the corporate veil and never have the individuals involved assume responsibility for criminal behavior, but that doesn't mean we should let them and then run around tearing up corporate stock certificates, wringing our hands in fury, and trying in vain to make a legal fiction pay the price in a moral or retributive sense.

    72. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by ultranova · · Score: 1

      But having seen in-house corporate PR men do their work first hand, it became apparent that 99% of the effort is just trying to ensure journalists don't screw up basic facts.

      And so, just to make sure no one would have any false impressions about their business, BP paid Google so that their website would be the first result for the search term "oil spill".

      Gotta admit, that is admirably honest...

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    73. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by ultranova · · Score: 1

      Top execs will already pay the price when they get the boot from their cushy jobs for the poor oversight they have exercised.

      They'll be booted straight to another cushy job with a golden parachute worth millions as a failsafe.

      Personal responsibility is for the serfs, not for the nobility.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    74. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Fnkmaster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No they have not been punished. The company remains practically unscathed. The notional stock value has not impacted their profits. They're still raking in money hand over fist. At their profit margins the cost of this spill won't make any serious dent. And even if it did, they'll pull an Exxon-Valdez and tie up any judgment in court for so long that they pay a fraction of what they should.

      They have spent $1.25B. The market estimates that the total cost to BP of this fiasco will be around $100B. Now, you can argue the market is right or wrong, I personally don't think it will be quite that expensive to clean this mess up, but my point is that BP has accepted responsibility, is shelling out tons of cash, and expects to continue doing so for years to come and the most conservative estimates of that amount still are in the tens of billions of dollars.

      The only real "punishment" you can inflict on a corporate entity is costing it cash and this is costing BP dearly. You can't beat its head into the ground, you can't embarrass it, you can't tickle its feet until it cries. Beyond money, which they have already agreed to spend a shit-pot of, if something criminal went on, you have to punish the individuals responsible for the criminal activity. The threat of jail time for negligence with other people's lives is much more effective as a deterrent for individuals engaging in illegal behavior than the any fines/forced reorganization/expropriation of assets on a corporate level will ever be.

    75. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

      The only worse penalty BP as a corporate organization could pay at this point is a firesale takeover (because their successor will have to eat the huge contingent liability here).

      Shows what you know.
      The firesale will be of BP's assets.
      The leftover shell of BP will end up with all the liability and none of the money to pay for it.

      GM did the same thing when it went through liquidation bankruptcy.
      The old GM aka "Motors Liquidation Company" ended up holding
      all debt and liability while the new GM is free and clear.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    76. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      BP has already suffered a near crippling blow. They have lost *100 billion* dollars in market cap.

      That's a drop in anticipation of a real drop in worth, when they pay a substantial fine at some point in the near future. If we fail to levy one, that sends a very bad message to the markets.

    77. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Top execs will already pay the price when they get the boot from their cushy jobs for the poor oversight they have exercised.

      Really? Really? Let's see, the Gulf is pretty much crapped up for several years to come, sea life is dying faster than we could ever kill it with guns and ammo, millions of people will suffer, and you're concerned that they'll have to live off of less than $150,000 a year?

      Holy fuck on a shingle, just how many stupid pills did you take this morning?

    78. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Xyrus · · Score: 1

      BP's gross operating profit is $47.4 billion according to their earnings statement released at the beginning of the year. $1.25 billion so far or $100 billion over the course of the next 10 or more years is hardly a painful penalty.

      Eleven people died because of their negligence. There's a chain of people there that still need to feel some handcuffs and a little prison love.

      --
      ~X~
    79. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by maxume · · Score: 1

      Liquidation might be the only way to deal with entrenched cultural problems, consequences be damned for the bystanders (but say, Korean Air managed to do it by training their pilots in English).

      It isn't particularly clear that the problems at BP are pervasive, but it wouldn't be real shocking if it came out that there were short cuts being taken when the blow out happened (in addition to the apparently poor maintenance of the BOP and their willingness to drill this well with so few disaster management resources standing by (I would say they are working pretty hard to deal with the thing, but their capabilities back on April 30th were pretty limited compared to the risks they took and the damage they have created)).

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    80. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Dhalka226 · · Score: 1

      Top execs will already pay the price when they get the boot from their cushy jobs for the poor oversight they have exercised.

      I agree with some of what you said, but this one made me stop in my tracks.

      You seem to be under the impression that getting fired has the same negative effects on executives of some of the biggest companies in the world that they do on the average working joe. It simply isn't the case.

      Yes, some top executives will likely be fired -- and they'll be sent on their way with huge severance packages to ultimately join the board of some other massive corporations. After all, "CEO of BP" is an impressive resume bullet and he can quite easily make a strong case that it wasn't really his fault.

      I also strongly disagree with your premise that BP has already been punished. Of course they lost market cap; this is a horrendous PR disaster in addition to the environmental disaster, and share prices are going to reflect that.

      However, that does not mean that the market cap will not bounce back some time after they get this thing fixed and the PR disaster part starts to abate. It also doesn't mean that people thinking your company is worse now than they did yesterday is a suitable punishment even if the loss stuck. The only REAL loss I've seen so far is the actual oil. It's unfortunate for them, and it is a real loss -- but it is not a punishment. Reports I've seen leaking out that they may have know there were problems weeks before the accident and chose to ignore them--now to the tune of billions of dollars of various types of damage due to their negligence--makes me believe that they do need to be punished. I don't always possess that attitude toward accidents, but in this case it seems appropriate.

      And ultimately, why should anybody other than BP pay for the damages they've caused and the money they've cost other people from their mistakes?

    81. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by jwhitener · · Score: 1

      Your first paragraph was great. The rest of it was complete bullshit.

      BP makes 24 billion "real" dollars per year. The stock drop/marketing cap is illusionary money. No workers are going to be losing their jobs because of a stock drop. The CEO might though.

      BP hasn't paid out any real damage money at all yet. Small checks to people who file a claim. That isn't even remotely approaching punishment, nor is it setting things right. At most, you could consider it a bare minimum act that at least is in the realm of decency.

      What needs to happen, is actually determine who is directly at fault, and that person or people need to go to jail. And concurrent with that, civil lawyers should be suing for damages (they already are, 100's of them).

      If I, as a private person, intentionally or accidently dumped tons of waste into a river, I'd be in jail, and fined. Just because its a corporation doesn't mean it gets to avoid any culpability.

    82. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by WNight · · Score: 1

      You mean by mentioning that British Petroleum is criminally negligent?

    83. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by WNight · · Score: 1

      The CEO is going to be toast along with quite a few other people as soon as they have the situation calmed down - the board just doesn't want to toast him until things quiet down a bit.

      Oh yeah! This is what I've come for - the scapeing of the traditional goat.

      What's the tradition again? When a company does this all its sins and its shareholders sins are forgiven? Do they get a bailout as well?

      And the sad thing is that the "punish BP" bloodlust is just going to result in thousands of decent Americans who work in the energy industry losing jobs in the inevitable restructurings that will come

      That's what welfare and unemployment benefits are for - to keep the people afloat during industry shifts, etc. And it's not like the new employers wouldn't need to hire. As you point out the demand is still there.

      panicked morons canceling their vacations because of what they saw on the news.

      And yet I'm sure you'd totally buy it if a company said something like "While the reported storms might not reach our factories we've decided to reroute these items through overseas distributors for the time being."

      Why should these consumers suffer more risk than they need to?

    84. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get your Karma to Excellent then metamod a page of comments. You should have points within a few hours.

    85. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Foldarn · · Score: 1

      What was that you said? You said British Petroleum is criminally negligent?

    86. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by PingPongBoy · · Score: 1

      They are, reportedly, afraid that if they try to stop the flow completely at the blowout preventer that the pressure will destroy the blowout preventer

      Are the drillers #()That should be simple enough to fill up with something solid.

      A partial fill would still help to reduce the flow. The problem may be that a partial flow would be a high velocity flow, which would erode the cap. The flow has to be practically slammed shut - stuff it up and then lower a heavy slab or maybe a stack of slabs on top. Brute force is what is needed here, not golf balls.

      --
      Know your pads. One time pad: good for cryptography. Two timing pad: where to take your mistress.
    87. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by PingPongBoy · · Score: 1

      Damn - that doesn't display well. The nonalphabetic chars for profanity killed a lot of my text.

      They are, reportedly, afraid that if they try to stop the flow completely at the blowout preventer that the pressure will destroy the blowout preventer

      Are the drillers fucking insane????

      Using the blowout preventer destroys the blowout preventer - Therefore, may as well never have installed a blowout preventer. It's useless anyways. Is that how they figure it? More evidence that the drillers don't know how to drill safely.

      Even if the blowout preventer is a wimpy piece of shit, in spite of the fact that it is a 400 ton mechanism, propping it up with surrounding sand and rock would leave nothing but a hole on top of a hill. That should be simple enough to fill up with something solid.

      A partial fill would still help to reduce the flow. The problem may be that a partial flow would be a high velocity flow, which would erode the cap. The flow has to be practically slammed shut - stuff it up and then lower a heavy slab or maybe a stack of slabs on top. Brute force is what is needed here, not golf balls.

      --
      Know your pads. One time pad: good for cryptography. Two timing pad: where to take your mistress.
    88. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by WNight · · Score: 1

      Nice rant. I'll only bother with addressing the parts with content.

      Wow, that's like the pot calling later-days Gandalf black.

      I never suggested that the public caring about the environment is to blame for lost jobs

      Nor did anyone else.

      What you suggested is that [...] the sad thing is that the "punish BP" bloodlust is just going to result in thousands of decent Americans who work in the energy industry losing jobs [...].

      That's like blaming the courts for punishing a criminal rather than blaming the criminal for doing the crime.

    89. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by k8to · · Score: 1

      The correct response is to dissolve the corporation. Only by applying this totally legitimate and completely reasonasble and acceptable measure with extensive precedent will we return to an era of corporate responsibility.

      --
      -josh
    90. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by johndoejersey · · Score: 1
      Having just searched for oil spill on google.co.uk

      BP Oil Leak Response
      www.BP.com/OilLeakResponse
      Info about the Gulf of Mexico Leak. Learn more about how BP is helping

      Right next to the words "Sponsored Links"

      Your making it out like they bought top spot in some underhanded way, if you've got the funds outbid them and you can have top spot too!

    91. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Xest · · Score: 1

      "It's an odd mentality, where the cause-and-effect here wouldn't be the obvious "Executive negligence in their company losing many jobs", but rather "the public caring that the executives cut corners and ignored signs because it would cost time and thus money resulted in this disaster, and subsequent job loss"."

      The question really needs to be why the executives cut corners and ignored signs, were they unique in the oil industry in doing this? were they just unfortunate that they were the ones it came back to bite? Is this a bigger problem across the oil industry in general that has gone ignored because of the American government and American people's lust for cheap oil?

      I suspect that's very much the case. I suspect no amount of punishment will matter in the long run if the underlying problem isn't resolved, because some time down the road, that lust for cheap oil will have chiselled away at industry standards and government oversight enough to allow this sort of accident to be repeated yet again. Sure punishment will make it okay for a few years as the industry is much more closely watched, and they all have to play the good little oil company for a while, but it wont last, the cutting corners to keep profits high and cost of oil low will come back to bite again.

      Hell, Iraq was pretty blatantly about oil contracts at the end of the day, and look how many people including American soldiers and contractors suffered over that. It's not like we even have to go all the way back to the Valdez disaster to find the last great example of how the lust for cheap oil in the US causes massive problems.

      Don't get me wrong, the US is hardly unique in this respect, but it is almost certainly the worst offender.

    92. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      You said British Petroleum is criminally negligent?

      ... for operating in a country with a criminally negligent government?
      Remember, BP may have requested for exemption from repairing the BOPs in February (that's standard "reduce costs, pay more to stock holders" business ethics), but it was the American government that granted the exemption (that's standard "protect the people from the ravages of untrammelled business ethics" governemnt ethics).

      But then again, with a major politician telling them to "Drill, Baby, drill!" because the proles want cheap fuel for inefficient transport, what sort of government oversight would you expect? Oh, sorry, does that make you feel just a tiny bit concerned about your own actions in the years leading up to this mess? I'll see if I can find the world's smallest violin to play you a serenade on.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    93. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by mike2R · · Score: 1

      BP's gross operating profit is $47.4 billion according to their earnings statement released at the beginning of the year. $1.25 billion so far or $100 billion over the course of the next 10 or more years is hardly a painful penalty.

      So it is a massive company. One able to manage the costs of the cleanup operation. Why is that supposed to be a problem? You'd prefer them to be bankrupt and pick up the costs in your tax bill?

      --
      This sig all sigs devours
    94. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by rhsanborn · · Score: 1

      I don't think it's blowout preventers in general, but this blowout preventer. The golf balls were originally used to force the mechanisms in the blowout preventer to work properly and close the thing up. I do believe, however, that the stability issues aren't just with the blowout preventer. I'm not sure on the details exactly, but they need to get concrete in that hole a good ways to seal the thing up. A rock on top won't do.

      This is what they were trying to do with "top kill". They would pump drilling mud into the hole to get the flow of oil to reduce enough that they could then follow it with concrete to seal the well. It didn't work. That's why they are going to drill the relief well. It will reduce the pressure on this well, so they can seal this well, and then they'll do a proper seal up of the relief well. Or that's how I understand it.

    95. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, that's exactly what I said, "won't you please think of the execs". Way to fail at reading.

    96. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Lonewolf666 · · Score: 1

      You are suggesting by repeatedly using the diminutive phrase "oh noes" that this isn't *real* punishment, but you fail to make clear what you think *real* punishment for a corporate entity is. Expropriation of assets by the Federal government and transfer to a state-owned oil corporation? Forced liquidation of the firm?

      It is often theorized that large companies are like socipaths, devoid of ethics and only interested in maximizing profits.

        Assuming this is true (and i believe so), the appropriate punishment would be massive fines that exceed any savings the company has realized by skimping on necessary safety measures. If that results in chapter 7 liquidation because the company cannot pay the fine, so be it. Only if the wrongdoing is more expensive than responsible behavior, the goal of maximizing profits will also create acceptable behavior in corporations.

      --
      C - the footgun of programming languages
    97. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Elbowgeek · · Score: 1

      And I think that this debacle will send a big message to other oil companies that will hopefully make the wary of cutting corners as BP and it's contractors clearly did.

      --
      Who is this delectable creature with an insatiable love of the dead?
    98. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by dominious · · Score: 1

      but they've showed no interest in keeping the public informed

      there is a freakin public website with online streaming from the ROVs showing LIVE what happens underwater

    99. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Xyrus · · Score: 1

      You'd prefer them to be bankrupt and pick up the costs in your tax bill?

      Who said anything about us footing the bill? BP has more than enough assets to sell off to other "more responsible" companies. Or better yet, keep BP running as a government controlled company until everything has been taken care of, and then sell it off to "more responsible" companies.

      The original poster contended that BP has been punished enough. They haven't. They killed 11 people and made an ecological disaster in the process. The cost of cleanup, even if they foot the entire thing, will barely make any impact. Shareholders might get a couple cents less in their dividend payments. The people in charge (and the company itself) need to be held accountable.

      --
      ~X~
    100. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Boomshadow · · Score: 1

      We proles don't want inefficient transport. We want efficient transport, of course. However, the only options we have are all inefficient, so while those are the only options available, we want them cheap. Hope this helps. If you have a more efficient option, of course, now would be a good time to bring it to market.

    101. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd agree except the "real news" seems to be pretty distorted and as if it's already been bought to frame BP into being banished by US legislators from the USA.

      So in short it might be wrong on BP's part if the reporting were balanced. It amazes me how anyone thinks they are really doing anything less than the maximum to fix a problem that is clearly threatening the entire companies future.

    102. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sponsored links push real news/search results out? What search engine are you using, Bing?

    103. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by mike2R · · Score: 1

      Which is fine if you are looking at BP shareholders as a load of nasty foreign speculators making money by ruining America's environment.

      However when you are one of those nasty foreign speculators (ie you're British and have a pension fund), for some reason you take a rather different view :)

      You can't just go around force-nationalising companies because you are pissed off with them. Yes of course BP has to pay to sort out this mess, and presumably will also be hit with some punitive fines. And if there were criminal offences then of course they should be pursued. But to seize BPs assets because destroying the company would make Americans feel better... It is simply not acceptable.

      BP has lost about half its net worth. It will probably be forced to cut its dividend (for political rather than financial reasons), which makes up about 15% of the dividend income on the average UK pension. The company and it's shareholders are being and have been punished.

      Remember US companies (ie your pension fund) are also active internationally. And also annoy the locals from time to time. Setting precedents here is unlikely to be beneficial for America in the long term.

      --
      This sig all sigs devours
    104. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Xyrus · · Score: 1

      Make Americans feel better? No, that isn't reason.

      Companies like BP apparently need to learn a serious lesson. You don't just cut of the hand that commits the crime. Unless these companies see that crap like BP pulled results in serious repercussions, there will continue to be incidents like this. Worse, their shareholders will still not pay attention as long as they make money. Perhaps those investors and pension managers should pay more attention to how the companies they OWN are behaving? Nah, that's just crazy talk.

      And who says shareholders would not get compensated if such an action were to take place?

      Point being punitive damages do not work unless it forces the company into bankruptcy. Exxon demonstrated quite effectively that as long as you tie something up long enough in legal proceedings you can whittle away those huge damages down to a pittance.

      --
      ~X~
    105. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by mike2R · · Score: 1

      Unless these companies see that crap like BP pulled results in serious repercussions, there will continue to be incidents like this. Worse, their shareholders will still not pay attention as long as they make money. Perhaps those investors and pension managers should pay more attention to how the companies they OWN are behaving?

      The company value has dropped about 80 billion USD. If you think that shareholders are sitting pretty than you're insane.

      Point being punitive damages do not work unless it forces the company into bankruptcy.

      Why does it only apply to foreign countries operating in the US, while US companies operating abroad are protected from similar sanction by the full weight of the US government.

      One of the reasons this is causing resentment in Britain is that with the Union Carbide compensation finally (after 20+ years) being paid for the Bhopal tragedy in India, the rank hypocrisy of the US government is obvious. Somewhere between ten and twenty thousand dead, long term heath problems for hundreds of thousands. Compensation paid, after DECADES of wrangling... less than a billion USD. Oh and a CEO who initially admitted responsibility, then changed his mind and fled home to the US which refuses to extradite him.

      Now you want to bankrupt BP because you're pissed with them? Sorry no. Make them pay to clear up the mess they made certainly, but you do not have the right to break the company simply because people are angry.

      --
      This sig all sigs devours
    106. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by WNight · · Score: 1

      There seems to be evidence suggesting that BP knew about significant risks, beyond what they'd described initially, and should have spoken up.

      And no, the whole point of our non-democratic system is supposed to be so that the smart politicians can do what needs to be done instead of what the idiot masses want. You know, we'd vote for drilling, or breaded circuses, or to tyranize the minority, and our leaders would do the right thing.

      If our politicians instead only pander to this and amplify it we should get rid of them and implement direct democracy.

    107. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Leebert · · Score: 1

      So I wanted to wait a couple of days and let this thread die off before asking this.

      What exactly makes you so hostile here? I actually appreciated that you pointed out where my logic was flawed, but I don't get why it had to be so standoffish.

      I'm asking this as a genuine question.

    108. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      If you have a more efficient option, of course, now would be a good time to bring it to market.

      The bicycle has been available for decades. A century even. Use it.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    109. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Boomshadow · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A few problems with bicycles: 1) Range. Granted, I live in the Tampa Bay Area in Florida, where commutes are typically rated worse than anywhere else in the US, but I commute 16.9 miles each way to work--and that's with six miles on I-75, where nothing under 5 BHP is allowed (even the strongest riders average 1/2 to 1 BHP). Dropping I-75 from the route would add 1-2 miles to the run. If my boss had a shower at the office, or didn't mind me arriving in a pool of sweat, I'd consider it. 2) Passenger capacity. 99 percent of bikes have a passenger capacity of, well, one. Granted, I don't have kids, but if I want to give someone a ride--say, a client to lunch, it's a no-go. 3) Cargo space. Panniers and other saddlebags can improve cargo capacity from basically zero to at most 1 to 1.5 cubic feet. Not enough for a grocery run. I could get a trike, of course, with up to 2 cubic feet, but that would slow the commute even further than a typical road bike.

    110. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      Move closer to work, or change jobs for one closer to home?

      Also, it's easy enough to tie one of those folding shopping carts to the back of your bike, balanced on 2 wheels, and it holds a lot more than 2 cubic feet. And you won't even notice it's back there.

    111. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Boomshadow · · Score: 1

      It's a nice idea in theory, but in theory, Gozilla's just another lizard. ;) Seriously, changing jobs in the current U.S. economy and changing houses when one is upside down on the mortgage are nontrivial. Believe me, I wish I were that adaptable, but no. As far as the shopping cart idea, that sounds like a great way of radically increasing stopping distance and turning radius--and of slinging canned items all over the road when one hits a decent bump or pothole. There's also the fact that even though there are now signs up in parts of the city reminding people that Florida Statutes 316 and 317 contain a section that requires auto drivers to give cyclists a three-foot berth, the combination of drivers using cell phones, drivers just plain oblivious to their surroundings, and drivers who seem to actively hate cyclists make bicycling a nonstarter in most of eastern Hillsborough County. And no, bike routes are not available in most of the area--the same oblivious drivers who run over cyclists also don't want to pay the additional taxes. I'm not defending the system, mind you; just advising you what I'm up against when I complain of the difficulty of implementing your ideas in my area. Seriously, Google "worst walking city in the US," "worst commuting city in the US," and "worst bicycling city in the US," and I guarantee you you'll get hits on the Tampa Bay area. Let me sum up: bicycling does not work everywhere.

    112. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      Seriously, changing jobs in the current U.S. economy and changing houses when one is upside down on the mortgage are nontrivial

      It's easy - millions of people are walking away from underwater houses.

      As far as the shopping cart idea, that sounds like a great way of radically increasing stopping distance and turning radius--and of slinging canned items all over the road when one hits a decent bump or pothole.

      Not at all. The turning radius is unaffected, and it actually improves the front-rear balance on breaking, with less weight transfer to the front wheel. I did it last week.

    113. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Boomshadow · · Score: 1

      I don't walk away from my financial commitments. I hope that's not how you do business.

    114. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      I don't walk away from my financial commitments. I hope that's not how you do business.

      1. It's a contract - rad it - it provides for doing exactly that. p. 2. I sold a long time ago ...

    115. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Boomshadow · · Score: 1

      1. It often specifies serious penalties when you do that too, and doesn't mention what it does to your credit rating (hint: usually around -200 points); 2. I'm happy for you. Good on ya. Seriously. That doesn't make your advice any good for me.

    116. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      The 200 hit on your credit score is temporary - the extra $200,000 that a homeowner is underwater already has the same effect - they're locked out of the credit market as a bad risk - they have a huge negative worth.

      And when you consider that anyone who stops paying their mortgage is going to be living rent-free for almost 2 years, that's a chance to pay down every other bill, get out of debt, and 4 years from now, everything is back where it was, except that they're not upside-down for an additional 5 to 10 years (because there will be no housing recovery this decade).

    117. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Boomshadow · · Score: 1

      Yes, technically 7 to 10 years of reduced credit availability and much higher interest rates still qualifies as "temporary," but it still does not make the prospect of biking to work very attractive. Again, to sum up here, you're basically suggesting that, for the privilege of biking to work, I either: a) change jobs in a down economy; or b) take a massive credit hit by walking away from my mortgage to move closer to work. For that privilege, I can look forward to inattentive or even hostile motorists putting my life in danger; the need to shower--and use extra water, thus meaning I'm still using lots and lots of resources (and I just know you'll insist I only use the absolute lowest flow shower, thus guaranteeing I'll still carry street funk afterward); the need to change clothes, increasing my laundry loads every week (using both more power and water!); and no protection from rain. The funny thing is, I LIKE bicycling, but it's just not feasible for me to use for commuting, for all the reasons stated above and more. I'd rather save money and simply have my car retrofitted with the latest efficient-energy technology when it becomes readily available.

    118. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      1. You qualify for a house 2 years after you're discharged. Make the payments for 1 year and you're good.

      2. Millions of people are doing it - in fact it's keeping California's economy afloat.

      3. Lack of job mobility (because houses are now totally illiquid) is harming the economy. The only way to fix this is for everyone who is underwater to walk away.

      4. You need to shower anyways - and since you'll be healthier, you'll use fewer medical resources down the road.

    119. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Boomshadow · · Score: 1

      You either aren't getting it, or you're among the most sophisticated trolls in Slashdot history. 1. I. don't. want. a. different. house. I don't want the financial and legal entanglements that come with walking away from a mortgage. And where am I supposed to live during those two years while qualifying for a new house? An apartment? Who's going to rent to someone who welshes on a mortgage? You? I hope so, because every other landlord checks credit, and I don't see them handing out rental agreements to people who dump their mortgages. 2. Millions of people like American Idol too, but that doesn't make it a great idea. As Chris Rock says about single parenthood: "Yes, you can do it, but that don't mean it's to be done." 3. Even if your logic weren't one great big huge nonsequitur, what are all the people who walk away supposed to do for housing and jobs? Employers aren't suddenly going to look at walk-away people and say, "Oh, these people are doing something good for the economy! Let me ignore my HR department and hire them right away!" 4. I shower plenty now, thank you. That was a stupid and mean personal attack from you, and you should be ashamed. Seriously, if you want me to give up my car, you've got to stop coming up with bad ideas and terrible excuses, and start rebuilding the entire infrastructure of this country so that cars simply aren't necessary. I'll help, but I'm not just going to dump my current life and obligations because some would-be Internet Thoreau says I should.

    120. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      1. I. don't. want. a. different. house. I don't want the financial and legal entanglements that come with walking away from a mortgage.

      So forget about changing jobs for the next 10 years, because that's how long it will take for housing prices to recover.

      And where am I supposed to live during those two years while qualifying for a new house? An apartment? Who's going to rent to someone who welshes on a mortgage? You? I hope so, because every other landlord checks credit, and I don't see them handing out rental agreements to people who dump their mortgages

      People owning rental properties have found they can't afford to be as fussy as they used to be, because if they are, then THEY will end up with vacant units that end up being repossessed. The market has changed - and we're only about half-way through the house repossessions - if that.

      2. Millions of people like American Idol too, but that doesn't make it a great idea. As Chris Rock says about single parenthood: "Yes, you can do it, but that don't mean it's to be done."

      Millions are doing it and reporting less stress, more money for essentials like food and clothing, increased job mobility, and they're able to clear off their other debts while living basically rent-free. They will be the future consumers, not someone who owes twice what their current house is worth.

      3. Even if your logic weren't one great big huge nonsequitur, what are all the people who walk away supposed to do for housing and jobs?

      They'll be able to take jobs where the work is (and be able to live more comfortably on a lower salary), instead of competing for the same job everyone else is competing for. It opens doors.

      Employers aren't suddenly going to look at walk-away people and say, "Oh, these people are doing something good for the economy! Let me ignore my HR department and hire them right away!"

      Employers aren't going to look at someone who's qualified and say "don't hire them - they walked away from an under-water mortgage".

      4. I shower plenty now, thank you. That was a stupid and mean personal attack from you, and you should be ashamed. Seriously, if you want me to give up my car, you've got to stop coming up with bad ideas and terrible excuses, and start rebuilding the entire infrastructure of this country so that cars simply aren't necessary. I'll help, but I'm not just going to dump my current life and obligations because some would-be Internet Thoreau says I should.

      You need to learn some reading comprehension. I never said you didn't shower. Here's, word-for-word, what I wrote - "You need to shower anyways - and since you'll be healthier, you'll use fewer medical resources down the road." The "healthier" was obviously in reference to riding a bike on a daily basis. Duh. The benefits aren't just saving energy.

      You're the one who should be ashamed, for lying so brazenly, not me.

      There are only two ways to fix the mortgage problem - either everyone walks away, or we get a cram-down mechanism. Nothing else will work. Printing trillions and giving it to the banks isn't working - they're not making loans to people who are under-water (not that I blame them - but they shouldn't have made the original loans either).

      The US is just repeating Japan's lost decade. The only difference - and this makes it worse - is that more US debt is held outside the US and has to be rolled over. Think "Chinamerica".

    121. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Boomshadow · · Score: 1

      1. I. don't. want. a. different. house. I don't want the financial and legal entanglements that come with walking away from a mortgage. So forget about changing jobs for the next 10 years, because that's how long it will take for housing prices to recover. If I continue to make payments on the house, it won't have any negative effect on my job prospects. You're now arguing against yourself. People owning rental properties have found they can't afford to be as fussy as they used to be, because if they are, then THEY will end up with vacant units that end up being repossessed. The market has changed - and we're only about half-way through the house repossessions - if that. And I'm sure they can be convinced of that...eventually, but probably not by someone walking into their office looking for an apartment because they've just walked away from a mortgage. It would be about like the proprietor of a fruit stand selling fruit to someone on a net-30 invoice on the strength of that buyer's previous orders, which include a huge pile of unpaid papayas left rotting on the side of a road. Millions are doing it and reporting less stress, more money for essentials like food and clothing, increased job mobility, and they're able to clear off their other debts while living basically rent-free. They will be the future consumers, not someone who owes twice what their current house is worth. Show me these millions. Name me a few hundred thousand and show me sworn affadavits. And as for the "They will be the future consumers, not someone who owes twice what their current house is worth," ...prove that too. I'll wait. Until then, it's just rhetoric from someone who wants me to rebuild my entire life around a bicycle. Employers aren't going to look at someone who's qualified and say "don't hire them - they walked away from an under-water mortgage". You haven't tried to get a job in finance or with the government, have you? Money problems are a HUGE red flag to US employers, especially in industries where financial responsibility is part of the organization's reputation. So, basically, you're wrong. You need to learn some reading comprehension. I never said you didn't shower. Here's, word-for-word, what I wrote - "You need to shower anyways - and since you'll be healthier, you'll use fewer medical resources down the road." The "healthier" was obviously in reference to riding a bike on a daily basis. Duh. The benefits aren't just saving energy. You're the one who should be ashamed, for lying so brazenly, not me. Bite me. I haven't lied one bit. I misinterpreted your little comment as an insult, which given the fact that I'm increasingly of the opinion that you're a pissant troll, would be easy to do. "You need to shower anyway" can be interpreted two ways, and if you can't see the other one, well, that's consistent with your "my way or the highway" narrative so far. Screw you. It's people like you that annoy people like me into going out and getting BIGGER cars.

    122. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Boomshadow · · Score: 1

      "Lust for cheap oil"?! We just want to work to earn money to feed our families and have a place to live! You're attacking the wrong people.

    123. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      Owing more on your house than it's worth has a negative impact on your credit rating, whether you're current on your payments or not. So any employer who does what you say ("checks credit ratings") will view you negatively.

      Rental prices are down compared to last year. Also, it's been 2 years now that landlords have taken tenants who have gone through the foreclosure route. You've been living in la-la land if you haven't noticed it. Landlords are settling for a lot less than they used to.

      As for the rest, it's all been in the news for the last year. Just look for it. Or don't you know how to search?

      http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Mortgage-Defaults-May-Be-cnbc-1964280202.html?x=0
      Mortgage Defaults May Be Driving Consumer Spending

      http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/01/business/01nopay.html
      Owners Stop Paying Mortgages, and Stop Fretting

      You haven't tried to get a job in finance or with the government, have you? Money problems are a HUGE red flag to US employers, especially in industries where financial responsibility is part of the organization's reputation.

      The person who walks away, does a short soale, forecloses, whatever - is less of a risk. They've taken their medicine, whether it was a short sale, foreclosure, deed in lieu, or a bankruptcy. They won't be tempted to take a bribe to hold onto their underwater house. Your thinking is naive.

      Why would I want to bite you? You've shown you're stupid, and it might be contagious. http://www.mybudget360.com/mortgages-non-payment-10-billion-dollars-month-free-thanks-bailouts/
      $10 Billion a Month Freed up Each Month from People not paying their Mortgage. $1.9 Billion of That is in California so People can continue Leasing their SUV Mercedes and Getting Tans. Thanks Bailouts!

      http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-04-22/honey-i-lost-the-house-now-it-s-time-to-party-caroline-baum.html
      Honey, I Lost the House. Let's Party

    124. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Boomshadow · · Score: 1

      Owing more on your house than it's worth has a negative impact on your credit rating, whether you're current on your payments or not. So any employer who does what you say ("checks credit ratings") will view you negatively.

      Unless I'm not looking for work because I like my current job and don't have any respect for your opinion.

      Rental prices are down compared to last year. Also, it's been 2 years now that landlords have taken tenants who have gone through the foreclosure route. You've been living in la-la land if you haven't noticed it. Landlords are settling for a lot less than they used to.

      Yes, insulting me further is just about guaranteed to win me over to whatever it is you're saying. Did you miss the part about me not wanting to change houses OR jobs?

      As for the rest, it's all been in the news for the last year. Just look for it. Or don't you know how to search?

      I never had the need to search. The burden of proof was on you. Yes, your facts are lined up so that if I wanted to do something I don't want to do, I could do it with somewhat less of a negative impact than I thought. Of course, if I moved, I could keep my job and still change over, but I still don't want to move, because I like my house, underwater as I currently am on the mortgage. So yes, I know how to search. Do you know how not to be obnoxious? Please prove it.

      Again, I don't want to move or change jobs just so I can risk my ass on Hillsborough County streets. In fact, because you've been so irritating about insisting that I change my lifestyle to suit you and ride a bike everywhere I go, I'm not saving up for a %^&* black Cadillac Escalade with 22" spinners, extra chrome, Truck Nutz® and your $%^&* email address printed in 400-point type across the back.

      And a matching one for my wife in gold.

      My lifestyle may be carbon-neutral even without the twin GMT-820s, but at least I'm not an Internet Environmentalist(TM) who goes around imposing his lifestyle on others. I'm not here belittling you because you can't drive. I'm here belittling you because you're too thick to understand that a)Hillsborough County roads are not safe for cyclists; b)I'm not ready to change residences; c)I'm not ready to change jobs; and d)when someone gets obnoxious about wanting me to do something, no matter HOW good it would be for me and the universe, I have a tendency to do the exact opposite. So how about you get on your kitted-out touring bike or whatever and pedal down to your natural food store and buy a nice tall glass of completely organic, animal-suffering-free, carbon-neutral STFU?

    125. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Boomshadow · · Score: 1

      I've got a solution: Upon conviction, sentence ALL of BP, Transocean, and Halliburton upper management to clean up the Gulf. Duration: Until it's at least as clean as it was before April 20. Take whatever BP owed them under their contracts before their convictions, PLUS all their current assets and split it up among the cleanup crews who aren't there on a chain gang. They get basic food, shelter, and medical care--and neon pink, orange and yellow HAZMAT suits so they're harder to lose track of. It's for their protection, after all; we wouldn't want them to get lost. After they're done cleaning up the Gulf, they're free to save up to buy property along the Gulf Coast.

    126. Re:have they bought "Beyond Pitiful" yet? by Boomshadow · · Score: 1

      Personally, I seriously doubt that the individual shareholders had too much to do with the gundecking of the safety protocols that led to this debacle. Solution: we find those responsible, which most likely will include the current occupants of the head offices at BP, Transocean, and Halliburton, put them out in the Gulf and let them come back when they've properly cleaned up their mess--not before.

  2. Who Cares by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

    At this point does BP actually think they can buy their way out of this with good PR?

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    1. Re:Who Cares by qoncept · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is a pretty ignorant, if rhetorical, question. Along the lines of asking what good replacing a 100w incandescent light bulb with a 23w CFL is in the grand scheme of things. The answer? The single light bulb and the single PR marketing action make virtually no impact. Are they pointless?

      BP obviously wants to continue operating and overcome this disaster. Regardless of what other actions they take, do you think that is possible WITHOUT trying to boost their image through PR?

      --
      Whale
    2. Re:Who Cares by GameMaster · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes. It worked, for the most part, for Exxon and Union Carbide. They'll, probably, just try to play by the play-book those two companies used. History shows that the public has a short memory/attention span.

      --

      Rules of Conduct:
      #1 - The DM is always right.
      #2 - If the DM is wrong, see rule #1
    3. Re:Who Cares by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Given that they've been at the "warmer, fuzzier, more baby-seal-loving, oil company" PR game for something like a decade now(I'm guessing that they might be doing a little less advertising in National Geographic in the near future; but they were all over the place with their "Beyond Petroleum" spin) I'd assume that they have an entrenched internal culture that is convinced of exactly that.

      Given the public's relatively short attention span, and the fervor of the ostensibly-libertarian-but-basically-authoritarian-corporatist wing, which blithely asserts that any state interference in the sovereign right of corporations to do whatever the fuck they want, or even say mean things when the inevitable consequences occur, is socialist fascism; they may well be correct.

    4. Re:Who Cares by MightyMartian · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The Valdez incident was in a fairly unpopulated part of a state with a very small population. Union Carbide was in India, and thus not only a long way off, but impacting foreigners.

      This is literally happening in a very populated, economically important region of the Continental United States. I mean, these people still talk about Hurricane Andrew, so no, I don't think they'll be forgetting how BP poisoned the Gulf Coast.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    5. Re:Who Cares by cusco · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I think they do.

      I heard the other day again the ridiculous meme that "the Internet will always be free" and "you can't control information on the Internet". Wrong.

      Since most people can't find information without a search engine they're only going to find the information that BP wants them to find.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    6. Re:Who Cares by MightyMartian · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm saying at this point I don't think they can boost their image. Wasting money on PR seems like throwing money down the toilet. There's a point at which you're so reviled that any attempt to make yourself look less despicable only feeds into the negative view the public has of you.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    7. Re:Who Cares by MightyMartian · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I just typed "gulf oil spill" in Google. What I came up with is three stories; one about Obama trying to deflect criticism about his handling of the spill, one about the confirmation of oil plumes (and once again BP is caught lying, BTW), and one about the fight to contain the oil spill to last months.

      About the only really questionable one is a site obviously put up by BP called gulfoilspill.com, and it's a helluva laugh to read.

      Google is not giving BP good PR. In fact, because of its news scanning, it's putting negative news stories at the top of the results.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    8. Re:Who Cares by delinear · · Score: 5, Informative

      You do realise that they've bought an ad space, they're not paying to bury all the other organic search results. It's one ad that appears in the clearly marked sponsored area and links to a page that gives some information about how they're trying (and failing) to do anything, with some webcams and a pitiful "have you got any ideas to help?" request. It's hardly preventing people finding the information they want, any more than Dulux are trying to destroy our cultural heritage by preventing us accessing information on the great artists because they show an ad when I search for "painting".

    9. Re:Who Cares by phyrexianshaw.ca · · Score: 1

      Wasting money on PR seems like throwing money down the toilet.

      what else can they do? (trust me, I'm not trying to support them, most of the global oil companies can go sit on the bottom of the ocean as far as I'm concerned.)

      as a business, you can't just "suck it up and close your doors". you HAVE to move on. as much as people may not like the oil industry, they haven't ONCE said:
      "buy from us. because if you don't, you can't f'in go anywhere."

    10. Re:Who Cares by phyrexianshaw.ca · · Score: 1

      as much as I agree that people shouldn't forget these things:

      we still depend on oil, and don't have the ability to mine/refine it ourselves.

      people will continue going to work on monday mornings with a full tank of gas, and will soon forget about it.

    11. Re:Who Cares by MightyMartian · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well of course we need oil. We need gold too, but would you just shrug your shoulders if they were mining it in your backyard and managed to poison your property with mercury? That we need various commodities doesn't mean that we should give companies free passes on damage.

      I never understand the sort of equivocation posters like you put forth. What does that even mean? Oh well, we've got to put up with the destruction of economically important fisheries and tourist areas because WE NEED OIL! I mean, that's the justification of a drug addict, not of a sensible individual.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    12. Re:Who Cares by MightyMartian · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They have tried to minimize the spill. They're estimates were bullshit. They're claim that there were no plumes is bullshit. Their claim that they're fully funding the cleanup is bullshit. They got called out very publicly by a group of Gulf coast mayors who literally had to crash a press conference where their reps were coating themselves in all sorts of nauseating platitudes to reveal that BP hasn't even returned these guys' phone calls.

      What BP should do is apologize about fifty times a day, do what it's claiming it's doing, stop trying to bullshit everyone about the extent of the damage, and goddamn well take what's coming to it. I mean, these are oil patch guys, but they're behaving like a bunch of stupid pissy prissies.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    13. Re:Who Cares by aicrules · · Score: 4, Informative

      While it may be good PR for them to have what they have on the Oil Spill link, it actually IS a very helpful link versus the rest of the results. Have you actually looked at what they have on that page? While the highlighted area is basically to let people know what they are doing, there is a bunch of very useful information and links also on that page. Important phone numbers, links to the four State response websites, ROV footage...stuff that they don't HAVE to put on a "Damage Control" link. They may only have done it because that was the only way to have any hope of repairing their image once this is over, but it's a better source of information that most of the other links you'll find in the results. AND it's in the sponsored link section, clearly pointing out that it's not just a run of the mill search result.

    14. Re:Who Cares by Bakkster · · Score: 1

      What BP should do is apologize about fifty times a day, do what it's claiming it's doing, stop trying to bullshit everyone about the extent of the damage, and goddamn well take what's coming to it.

      In other words, they still need to do PR, they just need to do it better. For example, actually being helpful and letting word of that get out, instead of just putting out word of promised help.

      --
      Write your representatives! Repeal the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics!
    15. Re:Who Cares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "We need gold too"

      What? I'm pretty sure I don't need gold. The things that gold is used for could be replaced with something else. Plus, it is recyclable.

      But your argument still stands... we need oil.

    16. Re:Who Cares by Plekto · · Score: 1

      There's a point at which you're so reviled that any attempt to make yourself look less despicable only feeds into the negative view the public has of you.

      Yet we still buy their gas because we have no other practical alternatives. And you wonder why they don't care...

    17. Re:Who Cares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know that the money they spend on PR could be spent on something tangible, like cleaning the f'ing Gulf. Environmental concern in the US is half-hearted at best as far as I'm concerned. We damn the corporations doing it when almost everything is in place for them to avoid violations, yet we will continue to financially support them. Hypocrisy doesn't begin to describe the apathetic attitude that has flourished here. Ultimately, we're all damned for this disaster, in one way or another.

    18. Re:Who Cares by GreyWolf3000 · · Score: 1

      Given that they've been at the "warmer, fuzzier, more baby-seal-loving, oil company" PR game for something like a decade now(I'm guessing that they might be doing a little less advertising in National Geographic in the near future; but they were all over the place with their "Beyond Petroleum" spin) I'd assume that they have an entrenched internal culture that is convinced of exactly that.

      Given the public's relatively short attention span, and the fervor of the ostensibly-libertarian-but-basically-authoritarian-corporatist wing, which blithely asserts that any state interference in the sovereign right of corporations to do whatever the fuck they want, or even say mean things when the inevitable consequences occur, is socialist fascism; they may well be correct.

      This problem isn't about any conservative belief that corporations should be allowed to do as they wish, it's about Americans unwillingness to care about where their gas comes from, and how "they" go about getting it.

      You really can't fix this problem without reducing demand for oil, and neither political party seems willing to stand up to big oil companies.

      --
      Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
    19. Re:Who Cares by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      Energy extraction is, certainly, a dirty business at the best of times; but BP has among the worst records in the industry(at least by the standards of outfits that have operations in US jurisdictions).

    20. Re:Who Cares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      BP obviously wants to continue operating and overcome this disaster. Regardless of what other actions they take, do you think that is possible WITHOUT trying to boost their image through PR?

      Most definitely *YES*?

      Give me an example of *any* *single* *multinational* company that was shut down because of an environmental disaster it has caused? Anyone? No??

    21. Re:Who Cares by AtlantaSteve · · Score: 1

      I'm not the biggest BP fan right now... but this is probably the only intelligent comment in the whole thread thus far. If they HADN'T set up some sort of highly prominent web page with information on what they're doing, people would have criticized that too.

    22. Re:Who Cares by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There's a point at which you're so reviled that any attempt to make yourself look less despicable only feeds into the negative view the public has of you.

      Damn, and I just ran out of mod points.

      This is the feeling I and everyone I know gets when we see BP commercials about how they're fixing stuff. "STFU and get back to work." No one wants to hear BP talk about how hard they're working. The only thing anyone is interested in hearing is "The leak is plugged, the oil has been skimmed, and life is returning to normal." Anything else just backfires and makes BPs image worse.

      If I were in BP's shoes, I'd buy ad space and show a live 30-second feed of the rovers, the meetings and engineers cranking away in cubicles and on boats.

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
    23. Re:Who Cares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We need gold too, but would you just shrug your shoulders if they were mining it in your backyard and managed to poison your property with mercury?

      If I cared about my backyard I wouldn't give gold miners permission to work there.

      I never understand the sort of equivocation posters like you put forth. What does that even mean? Oh well, we've got to put up with the destruction of economically important fisheries and tourist areas because WE NEED OIL! I mean, that's the justification of a drug addict, not of a sensible individual.

      Yes, it's a bullshit justification, but that's the choice America made. If you drill for oil a mile under the sea there will very likely be accidents. If you situate the wells in "economically important fisheries and tourist areas" then they are going to suffer when the accident happens. BP got a license to drill. Rather than kvetching about BP everyone should be asking who gave it to them.

    24. Re:Who Cares by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

      "I'm pretty sure I don't need gold."

      You are typing this on a computer, right?

    25. Re:Who Cares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, they can stop trying to spin the situation and actually devote some time to fixing and cleaning up the problem. PR has NOTHING to do with actually getting the job done. In fact, their PR is routinely telling lies overestimating the magnitude of the oil spill and making claims about clean ups that aren't happening.

      Last week BP sent millions to the state of Florida to provide ADVERTISING that their beaches were open and clean but had not yet released a dollar for cleanup even as the oil was barreling down on the panhandle.

      People need to realize that words mean nothing and action means everything.

    26. Re:Who Cares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes they are pointless as you need to add 80w of heating go get the damned lamp to glow according to the specs

    27. Re:Who Cares by snowwrestler · · Score: 1

      But the rest of the country, who largely ignores the Gulf Coast during most times, might more easily forget. I'm in DC and couldn't tell you a thing about Hurricane Andrew or why anyone down there would remember it.

      I do remember the Valdez spill but I'm personally interested in the outdoors and wilderness in general. Have to admit it does not affect my decision of where to fill up though.

      --
      Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
    28. Re:Who Cares by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

      But according to the Newsmax RSS spam Slashdot gets paid to show, this BP spill is Obama's fault.

    29. Re:Who Cares by UnknowingFool · · Score: 3, Interesting
      While both incidents were unfortunate, I'd have to put BP in a different class than Exxon and Union Carbide. For the most part the two companies haven't had many major disasters or accidents in their long history. BP on the other hand have had 2 other major incidents in the last 5 years. Over the last 3 years, BP has recorded 760 OSHA safety violations. Their competitors:
      • Sunoco, 8
      • Conoco-Phillips, 8
      • Citgo, 2
      • Exxon, 1

      In order words, BP has almost 40x the incidents than all their competitors combined.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    30. Re:Who Cares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, the "Beyond Petroleum" campaign got killed when the petroleum side of the company objected that BP's attempts to rebrand itself as an "energy company," and doing PR on their efforts to develop alternative energy sources, were marginalizing the division that made BP what it was. I wouldn't be shocked if it turned out that some of those same objectees were among those responsible for the shoddy safety practices that led to this mess.

    31. Re:Who Cares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We kill sand niggers to get oil. We start wars to get oil. Who gives a fuck where it comes from? The spill will be old news as soon as it is capped.The only bitching will be from the Gulf States effected and people who eat a lot of Gulf shrimp. And said to say, most people don't give a fuck what a bunch of spics in florida, or black and white nigger delta trash have to say.

    32. Re:Who Cares by ThrowAwaySociety · · Score: 1

      The Valdez incident was in a fairly unpopulated part of a state with a very small population. Union Carbide was in India, and thus not only a long way off, but impacting foreigners.

      This is literally happening in a very populated, economically important region of the Continental United States. I mean, these people still talk about Hurricane Andrew, so no, I don't think they'll be forgetting how BP poisoned the Gulf Coast.

      This. Also, the fact that Bhopal and Exxon Valdez were one-shot accidents that were over by the time the camera crews got there (or didn't, in Bhopal's case.) The BP spew has live streaming video of the situation getting worse by the minute.

    33. Re:Who Cares by lymond01 · · Score: 1

      Well, in the grand scheme of things, oil companies are producing a product that, at this point, we pretty much require to survive. Take away oil and you take away cars and plastics. That pretty much changes the entire world. I'm pretty certain about two things:

      1) There are people who are putting money acquired today over the future of our survival. They twist the process to make it difficult to live without certain items. Electric cars, taller buildings, more parks, fewer roads: all possible, but all rejected because we're not offered those choices on an affordable scale.

      2) Technology will likely solve many of our "harmonizing with nature" issues. Telecommuting, green cars, green power. Get us off the roads and keep us in our communities. Better city building would be nice too. People CAN walk if they try. I just hope that we change our ways somewhat before resources do become a problem and the population stabilizes not by choice, but by war for oil or water.

    34. Re:Who Cares by radtea · · Score: 1

      Yet we still buy their gas because we have no other practical alternatives

      That depends entirely on what you consider "practical".

      I choose to live within walking distance of where I work. I consider that "practical" even though it means I live in a small house, have no yard to speak of (although I live across from a park, so big deal) and sometimes the street theatre can get loud (although I find drunks being screamed at by their girlfreinds kind of amusing most of the time.)

      I get all of that, and fill my car up once every two or three months. I still haven't quite given up my car, but I'd be the last person to claim that I don't have practical alternatives: they just aren't quite convenient enough for me to pursue them yet.

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
    35. Re:Who Cares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're estimates ... They're claim ...

      I fucked you're mom

    36. Re:Who Cares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You didnt hear, he paid the environmentalists to blow up the oil rig. The environmentalists have been speaking to sea life for YEARS now, they had a team of dolphins install explosives on the Blowout preventer, and then had the porpousises and (friendly) killer whales evacuate the gulf. SO no animal life is really dieing, its the animals, enviromentalists, and of ocourse Obamas fault. Did you also hear the Obama has been in secret discussions with communist coutries around the world, they will invade us soon and bring their socialist policies with them THE WORLD IS ENDING.. THIS IS ALL A SIGN OF THE LAST DAYS...

      Im sorry Rambling troll will go away now.

    37. Re:Who Cares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How do you use a form of "there/their/they're" three times in a row, all in the same manner, and still manage to use different versions?

      They're teaching must have not been up to par with what their supposed to do.

    38. Re:Who Cares by cycleflight · · Score: 1

      They're estimates were bullshit. They're claim that there were no plumes is bullshit. Their claim that they're fully funding the cleanup is bullshit.

      There there... third time's a charm.

      --
      "...And who wants to make buttprints in the sands of time?" ~Bob Moawad
    39. Re:Who Cares by blackraven14250 · · Score: 1

      Also, they need to deliver on the promises they're not currently making.

    40. Re:Who Cares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The Valdez incident was in a fairly unpopulated part of a state with a very small population. Union Carbide was in India, and thus not only a long way off, but impacting foreigners."

      Nice racist remarks.

    41. Re:Who Cares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a drug addict I find that offensive. I have a stable job, a family, and an opiate habit. Contrary to popular opinion being addicted to a substance does not instantly make one a raving lunatic.

    42. Re:Who Cares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      stupid pissy prissies.

      They aren't Texans, they are acting like typical British people.

    43. Re:Who Cares by AndersOSU · · Score: 1

      I agree with Robert Reich.

      BP North America ought to be placed in temporary receivership.

    44. Re:Who Cares by AndersOSU · · Score: 1

      If I cared about my backyard I wouldn't give gold miners permission to work there.

      You don't actually think you own the mineral rights to your property do you?

      Yes, it's a bullshit justification, but that's the choice America made. If you drill for oil a mile under the sea there will very likely be accidents. If you situate the wells in "economically important fisheries and tourist areas" then they are going to suffer when the accident happens. BP got a license to drill.

      How long ago was it that anyone who questioned the wisdom of "Drill Baby Drill" was branded as unpatriotic?

      How is it that the people responsible for oil safety are the same people collecting oil revenue?

      How is it that once employees of the regulatory agency in charge of regulating oil drilling were caught snorting crystal meth off toasters with mining representatives the entire fucking agency wasn't turned inside out and beefed up?

      It's not a question of "a choice america made." It's the fact that the people at the highest levels of government with conflicts of interest out the wazoo placed the lowest priorities on environmental risk, and placed untoward amounts of faith in private industries to regulate themselves.

      FWIW I think the US ought to be harvesting it's own oil, but first we need to demonstrate that we're not only competent in enforcing safety regulations, but also if the unexpected does happen there are contingency plans already in existence.

    45. Re:Who Cares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where were you guys at when the Exxon Valdez was spewing massive amounts of oil in Prince William Sound? Exxon took a massive image hit and faced long term litigation issues. How many people today are outraged at Exxon still? How many people boycott Exxon? Time has a wonderful way of making things like this oil spill fade from memory. I seriously doubt BP will even come close to paying out $100 billion due to this spill yet their market cap has already lost that much.

      And before anyone gets silly, repeat after me, you can not successfully boycott a company that produces a commodity item like oil. If you don't go to BP gas and service stations, BP will sell their commodity products on the open market to other stations. The city bus might be using BP gas. The food you eat might have been fertilized with BP crude byproducts. There's no way for you to know if the plastic products you get were from BP crude. You might try to avoid their products, but you will inevitably get them indirectly.

    46. Re:Who Cares by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      What BP should do is apologize about fifty times a day, do what it's claiming it's doing, stop trying to bullshit everyone about the extent of the damage, and goddamn well take what's coming to it.

      Doesn't sound right to me - I don't see "jump off a bridge" anywhere in there. ~

    47. Re:Who Cares by treeves · · Score: 1

      "No one wants to hear BP talk about how hard they're working. The only thing anyone is interested in hearing is "The leak is plugged, the oil has been skimmed, and life is returning to normal." Anything else just backfires and makes BPs image worse."

      \And yet, if they did exactly that, we would NOTHING from them, and what do you suppose would be the reaction to that? They can't win.

      --
      ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
    48. Re:Who Cares by treeves · · Score: 1

      darn. should have been "*hear* NOTHING from them".

      --
      ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
    49. Re:Who Cares by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      At this point does BP actually think they can buy their way out of this with good PR?

      Since they are the target of civil and criminal probes that will no doubt be in progress (investigation plus litigation) beyond at least the next presidential election and quite possibly the one after that -- and since the President appoints the Attorney-General, other top Justice Department officials, and ultimately sets law enforcement policy -- there is very little reason to doubt that both PR (to mitigate the degree to which public anger is directed at them, limiting any politicians ability to intervene in their favor) and political activity would be a key part of any effort to contain the direct damage.

      Will it eliminate the damage that it will do, especially in the short term? No. But in terms of strategy for mitigating the potential long-term damage, its a pretty obvious near term step.

    50. Re:Who Cares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It takes a special kind of fuckwad to going around throwing out spelling flames. Now bugger off you pile of worthless shit.

    51. Re:Who Cares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Yes. It worked, for the most part, for Exxon and Union Carbide."

      oh really. In the news yesterday. Criminal convictions. Although the sentences seem ... weak. And insanely long in coming.

      If the Bhopal disaster is any indication people won't forget, but we'll still be trying to get justice 25 years from now.

    52. Re:Who Cares by Frenchman113 · · Score: 1

      They're estimates were bullshit. They're claim that there were no plumes is bullshit. Their claim that they're fully funding the cleanup is bullshit.

      You're attempt at trolling is quite poor.

    53. Re:Who Cares by maxume · · Score: 1

      Some assholes are even making plastic out of corn.

      Other ones are improving batteries (there is a market for electric cars, but it isn't very big, the batteries are mad expensive for the capabilities they actually provide, so anyone who has to choose the most practical vehicle (rather than the one that makes them feel swell) is going to choose one that runs on hydrocarbons (this is even true in Europe where they have those significant taxes on gasoline and all that scary socialism...)).

      The problem isn't that choices are being suppressed, the problem is that they often are not attractive, and that they don't make any sort of short or medium term economic sense (even though they may make loads of sense over longer periods).

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    54. Re:Who Cares by Titoxd · · Score: 1

      Andrew? These guys are still ranting about Camille and Betsy for God's sake!

  3. Sign Sign Everywhere a Sign by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Maybe they should pay attention to their own rules: http://www.flickr.com/photos/therachelmaddowshow/4667450260/?

    1. Re:Sign Sign Everywhere a Sign by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2, Informative

      Hey, be fair! They didn't leave their pumps unattended. 11 of the attendees died.

    2. Re:Sign Sign Everywhere a Sign by hedwards · · Score: 1

      The problem is that they weren't leaving the pump unattended, they were interfering with what the operators thought needed to be done and skimping on materials. Had they just been leaving it unattended, we probably wouldn't be in the current mess. But then again BP has a substantial history of fucking things up, and has yet to actually learn anything from past experience.

    3. Re:Sign Sign Everywhere a Sign by kimvette · · Score: 1

      <Bender>That is irony!</Bender>

      /ObligFuturamaReference

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
  4. What else? by CasualFriday · · Score: 1

    Did they purchase "gargantuan+fuck+up" too?

    --
    Raters gon' rate.
    1. Re:What else? by MalHavoc · · Score: 1

      I wonder if other folks can buy those terms for them? Is "colossal mistake" taken?

  5. In the US. by leuk_he · · Score: 4, Informative

    If i google "oil spill" here (Netherlands) it does not show sponsered links.

    1. Re:In the US. by markass530 · · Score: 1

      not for me, here in cali, i google OIL spill and nothing like thats mentioned, I even googled "BP Oil Spill" and no sponsored links

    2. Re:In the US. by alphax45 · · Score: 1

      Same here in Canada. I get typical search results. In fact the top result is a news story about how bad a similar spill would affect Canada's coast.

      --
      K Man
    3. Re:In the US. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      here in IL I googled "oil spill" and the two sponsored links were:
            1.
                  BP
                  www.BP.com/OilSpillNews Info about the Gulf of Mexico Spill Learn More about How BP is Helping.
            2.
                  Latest Oil Spill Update
                  google.com/crisisresponse/oilspill Watch live video of the oil spill cleanup effort.

      copy/pasted without editing from google search.

      The BP link has a ton of video links, including direct links to the ROV video feed.

      If nothing else, this will be the best documented screwup ever.

    4. Re:In the US. by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 1

      Also in Canada. Nothing on Google, but Yahoo has sponsored links.

    5. Re:In the US. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm in Florida and it is working as advertised. First sponsored link on google for "oil spill": BP
      www.BP.com/OilSpillNews Info about the Gulf of Mexico Spill Learn More about How BP is Helping.

    6. Re:In the US. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      got them here in the UK

    7. Re:In the US. by kaptink · · Score: 1

      In the UK we get a link to www.BP.com/OilLeakResponse - quoted as "Info about the Gulf of Mexico Leak. Learn more about how BP is helping"

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who cannot, sue.
    8. Re:In the US. by AndrewNeo · · Score: 1

      They could have used a better choice of words. "How BP is helping"... make it worse?

    9. Re:In the US. by imakemusic · · Score: 1

      Same here (UK). BP.com isn't even on the first page.

      --
      Brain surgery - it's not rocket science!
    10. Re:In the US. by smitty97 · · Score: 1

      I tried it on bing and the first couple results told me that Windows 7 is 150% cleaner and installs in less time than it takes to cap a well

      --
      mod me funny
    11. Re:In the US. by ShinmaWa · · Score: 1

      Really? I got a sponsored link right off the bat on "oil spill"

      1. Sponsored link

                  BP
                  www.BP.com/OilSpillNews Info about the Gulf of Mexico Spill Learn More about How BP is Helping.

      --
      The /. Effect: Thousands of users simultaneously accessing a site to not read its content.
  6. Actually, that's surprisingly competent by rwa2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'd have expected less of them... But I guess they're doing pretty well so far with their coverage on bp.com and using dispersants to keep most of the spill at depth and keeping away science vessels so they're free to misunderestimate the true magnitude.

    Wonder what their PR budget is compared to their recovery budget.

    1. Re:Actually, that's surprisingly competent by lwsimon · · Score: 1

      I'm certainly no fan of Rachel Maddow, but I think she hit it on the head with the idea that BP is underestimating the spill amount minimize fines by the EPA.

      I don't really have a problem with that, actually, so long as they hold true to their promise to pay for cleanup and lost business for those whose livelihood they've disrupted.

      --
      Learn about Photography Basics.
    2. Re:Actually, that's surprisingly competent by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      The problem is that they're minimizing basically took a spill that apparently is puking out 12,000 to 20,000 barrels a day and claimed it was only 5,000 (we know now that they have it partially contained that the spill was at least over twice as much per day as they were claiming). They also, even as late as a week ago, were claiming that there was no evidence for vast plumes, and that too has been falsified.

      BP has pretty much lied about everything from the very beginning. I can't see at this point how they hope to limit liability.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    3. Re:Actually, that's surprisingly competent by rwa2 · · Score: 1

      I'm certainly no fan of Rachel Maddow, but I think she hit it on the head with the idea that BP is underestimating the spill amount minimize fines by the EPA.

      Quite true, in this culture of litigation, you never admit fault to anything, because doing so only increases the punitive damages a jury could award. Almost to the point where, if you cause a car accident, it's sometimes advantageous to back over the victim to make sure they're dead, since it's easier to defend a case and limit liability against the deceased than the merely horribly mangled / crippled for life. So in that respect, BP could be responding in a much more evil fashion than they are now (maybe if Cheney was still in power :P ). At least they haven't simply pinned all the blame on their dead workers yet.

      So they have a lot of impetus to lowball everything and make things seem less serious, so when this hits the civil and criminal courts in a few months, they can justify their not-so-quick response and decisions over the past few months to try to recover the well.

    4. Re:Actually, that's surprisingly competent by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      most of the spill at depth and keeping away science vessels so they're free to misunderestimate the true magnitude.

      Finally someone who agrees with me. I've been saying since the beginning of this thing that all they need is to get a few science vessels down there and hit it with a defense matrix or irradiate and the whole thing would be solved. Maybe stuff it with some biologics or something.

      --
      Qxe4
    5. Re:Actually, that's surprisingly competent by AndersOSU · · Score: 1

      How do you not have a problem with that?

      If the Coal plant down the street minimized (read: falsified) the amount of cadmium it was discharging into the local aquifer to avoid fines is that ok?

    6. Re:Actually, that's surprisingly competent by AndersOSU · · Score: 1

      There's a difference between not admitting fault and lying.

    7. Re:Actually, that's surprisingly competent by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      Quite true, in this culture of litigation, you never admit fault to anything, because doing so only increases the punitive damages a jury could award.

      Admitting fault is unlikely to increase the maximum available punitive damage award; it may increase the probability of a finding of liability. OTOH, concealing fault -- particularly if doing so increases the harms resulting from the act at the basis of the claim of liability -- can both increase the amount of compensatory damages, and make punitive damages more likely (punitive damages often not being available for simply negligent conduct, but being available for knowing misconduct producing the same kind of harms, such as is evidenced by active concealment.)

  7. It may seem egregious and offensive by idontgno · · Score: 4, Insightful

    but this really isn't news. Money has a voice. More money has a louder voice. Lots of money can shout out all other voices.

    I hope the search providers enjoy their windfall. I hope the states, the Feds, and the individual victims of this disaster take careful note of how much money is being spent on non-productive spin control, rather than actually fixing the problem and cleaning up the aftermath.

    --
    Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    1. Re:It may seem egregious and offensive by sheph · · Score: 1

      Obama made this point yesterday as well. It's a rare occasion that I find myself agreeing with him, however in this particular instance I think he's dead on. If they're going to spend all this money on PR, then they better have no problem paying to clean up the mess and compensate those affected.

      --
      I don't believe in karma, I just call it like I see it.
    2. Re:It may seem egregious and offensive by LWATCDR · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I hate to even ask but have you gone to the site they linked to their ad? http://www.bp.com/bodycopyarticle.do?categoryId=1&contentId=7052055&nicam=USCSBaselineCrisis&nisrc=Google&nigrp=Non_Branded_Crisis_Management-_General&niadv=General&nipkw=oil_spill
      It isn't a terrible site. It is clearly marked as a BP site as well.
      No Astroturfing just a site about what they are doing.
      Totally expected and frankly people would be screaming if they had not done it.
      They also have live feeds from the ROVs which seems pretty cool
      This is so not a story but hey what do you expect?

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    3. Re:It may seem egregious and offensive by jeffmeden · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If anything, every dime they put toward stupid commercials and other PR stunts should be matched (by them) and put into a "Future of the Gulf Coast" fund where it can be used solely for long term needs to be determined at a later date. Then, in 10 years when the fisheries still are in a terrible state and BP is in a legal battle over how the cleanup was handled and what government did what without BPs consent they will have a little money to put toward rebuilding the ecology of the coast.

    4. Re:It may seem egregious and offensive by SleazyRidr · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but we really don't care about how hard they're working to get everything under control, we just want to get angry.

    5. Re:It may seem egregious and offensive by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Never said don't be angry. Just trying to see that people are only angry with cause.
      There are things that BP is doing worthy anger but this isn't really one of them.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    6. Re:It may seem egregious and offensive by bkeahl · · Score: 1

      It would be foolish for BP to not do some PR work. Setting aside most folks ignorance of business for a moment, people are invested in BP (as with most corporations) and the company has an obligation to do everything it can to promote a good public image to ensure the shareholders get a return on their investment. There are pile of people who have BP in their retirement fund portfolio. There are BP employees who would like to have a job tomorrow, not to mention contractors and vendors. They'd be idiots to no try to put their message out.

      I haven't heard President Obama say he wants to kick the collective asses of government officials who put together the a response plan that has yet to be implemented, suddenly changing the dispersant BP can use, and generally changing the pre-planned rules of engagement the government REQUIRED the oil companies to prepare for. No, Obama and the propagandists in the media won't talk about the bungling of all this from the government's side.

      Obama and the news-hounds won't talk about the government decisions that forced oil wells to be drilled five miles underwater where dealing with a problem is nearly impossible. Nor will they mention this problem could have been resolved in hours if it had been in 50 or 500 feet of water. Or maybe even on land in the midwest or Alaska.

      Nope, we'll just all jump on the last guy to touch the ball regardless of all the fumbles committed along the way by all the other players and then complain about gas prices.

      Then folks want to trash BP for trying to put their message out. Who knows, it could even be the truth. I'm sure someone besides our a** kickin' president can be the messenger of truth every once and a while.

    7. Re:It may seem egregious and offensive by blind+biker · · Score: 2, Informative

      They also have live feeds from the ROVs which seems pretty cool

      They have those feeds because the government forced them to!. BP wasn't going to provide those feeds, it took an explicit order by the US government to achieve this "kindness".

      --
      "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
    8. Re:It may seem egregious and offensive by KlausBreuer · · Score: 1

      "BP to Donate Net Revenue from MC252 Well Leak to Protect and Rehabilitate Wildlife in Gulf States"

      A pure PR site. Looks like you can actually find some capable PR people ;)

      I do apologize, but... who are you?

      --
      Free PC version of ChipWits at http://www.breueronline.de/klaus/chipwits/
    9. Re:It may seem egregious and offensive by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Yea it is a pure PR site. To me this is totally expected and none issue.
      I mean really what would expect from a BP site? "WE TOTALLY SUCK AND YOU SHOULD HATE US!"
      They had two real choices.
      They could have put up nothing and pretend it wasn't happening or put up one that puts a positive spin on the disaster.

      Just not news IMHO just normal. Nothing to get up in arms over unless something on the site is not true. Spin while annoying is just tell the truth that you want people to hear and is how everybody works.
      This is nothing to get worked up over. Other things that they have done are but this... Just not really a story since it is a total duh.... of course they did.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  8. Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by eldavojohn · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The worst part of this oil spill is that you can't even boycott BP effectively without also boycotting the local gas station owner and the whole refinery chain. Say that this shady keyword purchasing damage control made you so upset that you went down and picketed the BP station in your neighborhood. Well, you might be affecting BP a little but you're having a much larger impact on the guy who owns that station. A huge impact if you're there all day appealing to people's empathy for the Gulf.

    What can I do? Write my senator demanding what exactly?

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by oh-dark-thirty · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Perhaps demand your share of relief from this spill. This will have a ripple effect on the economy for years to some, and we will all be paying for it in some way or another.

    2. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by batquux · · Score: 4, Interesting

      What can I do?

      Go to google, search for 'oil spill', and click on all the ads. Each click costs them money, and I'm sure they're bidding high for placement.

    3. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Create a bot that repeatedly searches Google and Yahoo for oil spill then clicks on the links.
      Since you cant boycott them cost them as much money as you spend on them.

    4. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by clickety6 · · Score: 1

      use less petrol/gas

      take public transport

      buy an electric car/hybrid

      get on your bike

      car share

      move closer to work

      use less petrol/gas

      --
      ----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
    5. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by AdmiralXyz · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You could ask the owner of the local gas station to switch to a new franchise. Most of those places are run like fast-food chains: Joe Citizen signs a multi-year renewable contract with the Company X in which he gets to use their branding, in exchange for buying gasoline from them and forking over some percentage of his revenue. Abandoning the contract early would probably cost the owner a great deal of money, though, and those guys are struggling enough as it is with the wild fluctuation in gas prices (the more it changes, the worse off they are). It would all depend on just how angry he was at BP.

      Not pretty, but convincing enough of them to switch would be the real way to harm BP. Just boycotting BP stations is pretty much useless.

      --
      Dislike the Electoral College? Lobby your state to join the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact.
    6. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by lwsimon · · Score: 1

      How exactly is their buying keywords shady? They are leading the cleanup/damage control efforts, as it is their responsibility. They're doing everything they can to get information out, to the point of paying for keywords to point you to their updates.

      Say what you will about BP's operations, but their corporate communications seem to be top-notch. Those folks are doing all the right things.

      --
      Learn about Photography Basics.
    7. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by Fujisawa+Sensei · · Score: 1

      The worst part of this oil spill is that you can't even boycott BP effectively without also boycotting the local gas station owner and the whole refinery chain. Say that this shady keyword purchasing damage control made you so upset that you went down and picketed the BP station in your neighborhood. Well, you might be affecting BP a little but you're having a much larger impact on the guy who owns that station. A huge impact if you're there all day appealing to people's empathy for the Gulf. What can I do? Write my senator demanding what exactly?

      I don't know what the BP stations look like in your area, but around here they're as dirty and sleazy as they get. I didn't like getting gas there before the spill.

      --
      If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
    8. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep. The correct reaction is not a knee-jerk boycott that doesn't impact BP (they'll just sell to China for the same price, while you'll purchase your oil from another company that follows exactly the same practices), but rather to take a long run view of reducing your consumption of that resource.

      No blaming the White House either... ever notice the same people blaming the White House for the oil spill are the same people that were blaming for gas prices increasing so they could drive their Escalades?

    9. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by FatSean · · Score: 0, Troll

      I don't see a problem with boycotting the whole chain. Each link contributes and each link takes profit.

      I'm planning to move to natural gas for home heat. Yeah, there are still problems with nat gas drilling but over all much lower environmental impact than oil.

      --
      Blar.
    10. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by DreamsAreOkToo · · Score: 1

      Oh, come'on, what a lame argument. Your local gas station owner could always switch companies (especially if he's environmentally responsible). Also, he's probably a millionaire and can afford to lose some business. Finally, even if all of us "morally outraged" people quit buying BP gas, we're such a small segment of the overall population they'd only see a small dip in their profits anyways. Basically, you're demonstrating the classic example in psychology of a narcissistic personality, "If I stop buying gas from them, they'll go out of business." Also, you're acting like a victim. "There's nothing I can do about this that won't hurt me more than I'll hurt them."

    11. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by drachenfyre · · Score: 1

      The worst part of this oil spill is that you can't even boycott BP effectively without also boycotting the local gas station owner and the whole refinery chain. Say that this shady keyword purchasing damage control made you so upset that you went down and picketed the BP station in your neighborhood. Well, you might be affecting BP a little but you're having a much larger impact on the guy who owns that station. A huge impact if you're there all day appealing to people's empathy for the Gulf.

      What can I do? Write my senator demanding what exactly?

      Actually, odds are that none of the gas you are buying at a BP station actually came from BP. The stuff all comes from the same local distributors who pass it back and forth like it's water. Local stations (none of which in the US are actually owned by BP) just pay for the right to use the name. To boycott BP you'd need to track their shipments in and out of places and then find out where things went. Unless the local distributors boycott BP (not likely) there isn't anything you'll be able to do as a customer. And besides, if BP goes under, who then will pay for the spill.

    12. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by oh-dark-thirty · · Score: 1

      BP owns many brands, including Castrol. They also own the 'am-pm mini mart' brand and some cafe chain that I can't remember. You'd have to boycott them too.

    13. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They have ownership/assets that could easily be liquidated for massive amounts of money. The US should do that to send a message in no uncertain terms that major problems will be dealt with swiftly... er wait, too late for that.

    14. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by royallthefourth · · Score: 1

      Tell your senator that you want more transportation options besides automobiles.

    15. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by Iyonesco · · Score: 1

      Why boycott BP? Do you think the other oil companies would do anything differently? Do you think "I'll buy from those nice ExxonMobil people because they care far more about the environment than profit"?

      It's a bit like boycotting a particular hard disk manufacturer because one of your drives failed. The exact same thing would happen with any other manufacturer so there's no point boycotting one when they're all the same.

      That is, of course, unless we're talking bout Samsung. They really do make the most unreliable shit. I'd never buy any of their fucking drives again! Bastards! :)

    16. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by mea37 · · Score: 1

      "Oh, come'on, what a lame argument. Your local gas station owner could always switch companies (especially if he's environmentally responsible). Also, he's probably a millionaire and can afford to lose some business"

      You're missing the point: Oil is fungible and is traded several steps up the supply chain from you buying gas. You cannot affect demand for BP oil. When GP says you'll have a minimal impact on BP, he's wrong; in fact you'll have none at all.

      If your local station owner switched to a different franchise - in fact if every station owner did so - the impact on BP's oil operations would be... none at all.

      See, it's not that the collateral damage to the gas station is to high; it's that the collateral damage is the only damage that will occur. The only way you can contribute a penny less to the fortunes of any given oil company is to use less petrol-based products.

      Oh, and I find your assumption that gas station owners are swimming in cash amusing.

      'Finally, even if all of us "morally outraged" people quit buying BP gas, we're such a small segment of the overall population they'd only see a small dip in their profits anyways. Basically, you're demonstrating the classic example in psychology of a narcissistic personality, "If I stop buying gas from them, they'll go out of business."'

      So what exactly is your point? Just arguing for the sake of it? Because a minute ago you were saying his arguments against a boycot were bunk, and now you're saying a boycot is a dumb idea - which was his point.

      'Also, you're acting like a victim. "There's nothing I can do about this that won't hurt me more than I'll hurt them."'

      Funny, it read to me as "the things I've thought of won't work; what are some ideas that will?" Not sure how asking for ideas is "acting like a victim", but I guess it's easier to criticize than contribute.

    17. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Make a bot to click all the ads all the time through Tor.

    18. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by AnonymousClown · · Score: 1

      Abandoning the contract early would probably cost the owner a great deal of money, though, and those guys are struggling enough as it is with the wild fluctuation in gas prices (the more it changes, the worse off they are).

      I have a relative that used to manage a gas station (Mobile before Exxon). The contracts are so one sided that the station owner is more of an indentured servant than a business owner. Gas sales paid the bills - break even - the car wash was what enabled the station owner to actually take something home and feed the kids (grossed a million a year but after expenses take home was about $50K). Car wash and repair services and then maybe you can actually save money for the future.

      Of course those figures were for his area. I'm sure a gas station in Beverley Hills probably does a little better.

      --
      RIP America

      July 4, 1776 - September 11, 2001

    19. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I saw a good quote at the end of a video the other day :

      "You aren't angry enough to stop driving your car."

      So. What's it gonna take?

    20. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by mea37 · · Score: 1

      "Write my senator demanding what exactly?"

      I'd suggest demanding a reasonable application of individual accountability. This isn't just about oil drilling, it's about corporate behavior. Corporations behave irresponsibly because the people that decide how the corporation will act are not accountable for the consequences of those actions; only the imaginary legal entity of the corporation itself is accountable.

      To an extent, this is intentional; when you form a corporation you get a shield against personal liability because otherwise any form of business would be too risky. But IMO it goes too far today. It's one thing to be able to say "uh oh, I lost millions of dollars and can't pay back my investors; good thing I'm not personally liable". It's something else to be able to say "uh oh, my stupid orders got 11 people killed and caused vast environmental damage..."

    21. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by Jeng · · Score: 1

      Here is why BP needs to be boycotted beyond what the other oil companies deserve.

      http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/index.php/news/content/view/full/91000

      --
      Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
    22. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by penix1 · · Score: 1

      Those folks are doing all the right things.,/blockquote>

      That would be true if the information they were putting out wasn't intended to limit liability. Grossly underestimating the amount of crude spewing forth was a liability reduction scam that I hope lands someone in jail. Using weasel words like "legitimate claims" means a huge multi-year legal fight trying to get some sort of compensation out of them.

      --
      This is a sig. This is only a sig. Had this been an actual sig you would have been informed where to tune for more sigs.
    23. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by jDeepbeep · · Score: 1

      How exactly is their buying keywords shady? They are leading the cleanup/damage control efforts, as it is their responsibility. They're doing everything they can to get information out, to the point of paying for keywords to point you to their updates. Say what you will about BP's operations, but their corporate communications seem to be top-notch. Those folks are doing all the right things.

      How much did you get paid to write that?

      --
      Reply to That ||
    24. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by xaxa · · Score: 1

      Natural Gas platforms can go wrong too. Granted, the environmental impact was small, but people died because of bad decisions made by the energy company.

      The best thing would be to use less energy to heat your home -- add extra insulation, solar panels for heating water, etc.

    25. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by delinear · · Score: 1

      I don't see the moral ambiguity. So the guy at the gas station is struggling? He's still earning his living on the basis of a company whose practices you are ethically opposed to. If a toy company tries to shave a few cents off their product by using toxic components, do you still buy one for your kid because you want to support the mom and pop stockist down the road?

    26. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by technology_dude · · Score: 1

      Send them a message in the search terms, e.g. "Eat Shit and die BP", "oil spill" It won't do any good but it might make you feel better.

    27. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by kimvette · · Score: 1

      A lot of station managers (they often lease the businesses from big oil) only make one or two cents per gallon - their real profits are obtained through merchandise (the attached convenience store), partnerships with Subway, Dunkin Donuts, and other fast food restaurants, and car washes. Switching to another brand is often not possible, and sometimes the brand changes against the will of the lessee.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    28. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by Firehed · · Score: 1

      About $1.50/click with 2.4M monthly searches, according to Google's keyword tool. No idea what the translation of searches to clicks is, but for a company with that much money, you're really not going to be doing a whole lot of damage.

      I'm sure you'll please Google and Yahoo though.

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
    29. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      those guys are struggling enough as it is with the wild fluctuation in gas prices (the more it changes, the worse off they are).

      That doesn't seem to be the case here, where they jack up the prices as soon as the price of a barrel of oil goes up, but it takes a while to go down after oil does. Plus, they make most of their revenue from convenience sales like beer, chips, tobacco, etc.

      Just boycotting BP stations is pretty much useless.

      An effective boycott of BP stations might get the franchise owners to switch suppliers.

    30. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by QuantumRiff · · Score: 1

      Or, that local owner could get so fed up, that he switches to an Exxon, or Chevron station, or whatever.

      And if several stations in your region start switching from BP, then thing really, really start to add up.

      really, your argument is about as silly as "but my vote only counts as one, so why vote" or whatever..

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    31. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Make a bot to click all the ads all the time through Tor.

      Waste of time. Google will just drop all your clicks and ban Tor when counting clicks (if they haven't done so already).

    32. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by batquux · · Score: 1

      That's a pretty good point. It's mind boggling how much money they have, and how much continues to flood in despite this mess.

      I wonder if something like conficker could actually tilt a close election using similar means.

      A big limiting factor in both cases is the fact that google requires you to prepay a budget for your adwords.

    33. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Say what you will about BP's operations, but their corporate communications seem to be top-notch. Those folks are doing all the right things.

      Say what you will about BP's truth, honesty and integrity, but their corporate communications seem to be top-notch.

      Their communications are lies deep fried in crap emitting the putrid smell of incompetence.

    34. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by magarity · · Score: 3, Informative

      Tell your senator that you want more transportation options besides automobiles
       
      Yes, because there aren't enough empty buses and light rail trains rumbling around town.

    35. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by DigitAl56K · · Score: 1

      Who is going to turn down cheap oil?

      The worst you're going to do is force BP to sell some oil to another company who will sell it to you through their stations playing a little arbitrage. You're going to be buying their oil no matter what.

      What damage do you hope to do beyond the PR damage that's already done and whatever fines/suits the government and those impacted slap them with? And while you're boycotting BP, maybe it's worth remembering that if this hadn't been BP it probably would have been someone else.

    36. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by bhtooefr · · Score: 1

      Well, you can boycott them.

      100% biodiesel.

      (Of course, the most that you can buy at a pump, here in Ohio, is 20%, and the closest station that sells B20 is a BP station.

      As for ethanol, so much petroleum is used in its creation that you might as well just be getting gasoline.)

    37. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by AGMW · · Score: 1

      You could ask the owner of the local gas station to switch to a new franchise. ... Not pretty, but convincing enough of them to switch would be the real way to harm BP. Just boycotting BP stations is pretty much useless.

      Not forgetting that oftentimes a filling station will get new supplies from whichever oil producer has oil closest - it's not unusual, for example, to see a BP tanker refilling a Texaco gas/petrol station (and vica versa), esp. if yer in the middle of nowhere.

      --
      Eclectic beats from Leeds, UK
      handmadehands.co.uk
    38. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those local gas stations make most of their money from snacks, sodas, cigs, and whatnot. The fuel pretty much breaks even, and is designed to get customers in the door. What can you do? Buy a pack of gum, but fill up the tank somewhere else.

    39. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by lwsimon · · Score: 1

      If that happens, then my opinion of them will change. You can't expect them to pay everyone with their hand out, though - some court claims are to be expected.

      --
      Learn about Photography Basics.
    40. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by lwsimon · · Score: 1

      I just admire their communications folks, is all. It's like if you discovered that Dr. Evil's network is composed entirely of Gentoo systems that are maintained through a single, enormous Perl script.

      You'd be impressed :)

      --
      Learn about Photography Basics.
    41. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Boycotting BP only starves them of cash, cash they need to pay for the oil spill clean-up & compensation to the various victims in and around the Gulf...

    42. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      The worst part of this oil spill is that you can't even boycott BP effectively without also boycotting the local gas station owner and the whole refinery chain.

      That's usually the case with boycotts. But the middle men choose to do business with BP, and the pressure can encourage them to either (1) disassociate from BP, or (2) put pressure themselves to BP to take action that would get the boycott to end. So I'm not sure I see the problem here.

    43. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > You cannot affect demand for BP oil

      Sure you can. You can affect how much money BP makes from it. They're making more money licensing their name to franchise gas stations than they would selling the same quantity of gas to someone else. Hurt the franchise and you directly hit some of BP's profits.

      Further, fungibility is not a binary state. It's not like every well in the world is pumping at max capacity right now; far from it, actually - a large percentage of them use quotas to regulate the supply (and thus insure more stable prices against a downward price war). Boycott one supplier, and the other suppliers will pump a little more out of the ground in the short term, and drill more wells in the long term. And on the flip side, if BP has to sell its oil for less in order to keep its business, then, well, that hurts their income too.

      I might as well address the standard rant of "fines never hurt a corporation! they pass the price on to the consumer!" too while I'm at it. Note the distribution of wells among different owners. If BPs franchises suffer and BP has to sell its oil to other companies - and has to mark it up a bit to counter cleanup costs - the same situation plays out between oil companies as it does between people at the pump; everyone prefers to buy the cheaper oil first, and that's a rather large incentive for everyone else to pump more oil at the same cost to grab more market away from the competition.

      If we extend this into Evil Mastermind territory, I'm sure all the other giant oil companies are salivating at the prospect of cleanup costs driving BP into the red, such that they may have to sell off some part of their business. I'm sure Exxon, Shell, and so on would gladly enlarge their fortunes at the expense of a competitor. Business has no concept of not kicking a competitor when they're down...

    44. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How much did you get paid to write that?

      Purely for your information (I'm sure you don't give a shit), but not all the world views this as you do.

      In Britain we see a corporation (which just happens to be a major part of all our pension funds), that is doing everything it can to stop the leak. Has made it clear that it will pay whatever it costs, and is behaving as well as you can expect a corporation to do in the circumstances. We also see British flags burned on the street and a US president who seems determined to loot the corporation for all he can. And we think, when American corporations cause disasters in other countries, what would be the reaction of the US government if that other country treated the American corporation this way?

    45. Re:Can't Even Boycott the Bastards by FatSean · · Score: 1

      My furnace is old and in need of replacement so It makes more sense to replace the aging device than to pile other systems on top of it.

      My major concern is environmental impact. The workers get paid well for the risks they take and they can quit if they wish. We can't quit from an oil spill.

      --
      Blar.
  9. Brings a tear to my eye... by Psiren · · Score: 3, Funny

    Suddenly I'm proud to be British. God save the Queen!

    1. Re:Brings a tear to my eye... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Suddenly I'm proud to be British. God shave the Queen!

      There... fixed it for ya.

    2. Re:Brings a tear to my eye... by lennier1 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Where's The Doctor when you need him?

    3. Re:Brings a tear to my eye... by drachenfyre · · Score: 1

      Time can be rewritten. He'll come back. Fix deepwater horizon, prevent the disaster and then none of this thread would have ever existed. I just wonder if my mod points would survive the change :)

    4. Re:Brings a tear to my eye... by Mercano · · Score: 1

      Taking Amy to art galleries, apparently.

      --
      #include <signature.h>
    5. Re:Brings a tear to my eye... by AnonymousClown · · Score: 1

      Time can be rewritten. He'll come back. Fix deepwater horizon, prevent the disaster and then none of this thread would have ever existed. I just wonder if my mod points would survive the change :)

      But someone will have to sacrifice their life and ram their submersible into the well head deep below the water to seal it off.

      --
      RIP America

      July 4, 1776 - September 11, 2001

    6. Re:Brings a tear to my eye... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Doctor... Who?

    7. Re:Brings a tear to my eye... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? BP = British Petroleum.

    8. Re:Brings a tear to my eye... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      BP = British Petroleum.

      Used too. The name was changed years ago. The only person who still uses the old name is Obama.

  10. Obligatory twitter quote by jeffmeden · · Score: 3, Funny

    @BPGlobalPR

    By the way, we made it so if you google image search "oil spill" or "bp" you'll see some great celeb sideboob pics. #bpcares

    Ah, the fun we poke.

    1. Re:Obligatory twitter quote by eulernet · · Score: 1

      Oily breasts ? Finally, something exciting !

  11. Not necessary.... by d474 · · Score: 1
    I follow BP on twitter @BPGlobalPR to quench my thirst for oil spill info. Their latest tweet:

    By the way, we made it so if you google image search "oil spill" or "bp" you'll see some great celeb sideboob pics. #bpcares

    --
    Authority questions you. Return the favor.
  12. The Tubes by outriding9800 · · Score: 1

    Are filled with oil... Nothing to see here just move along.

  13. BP - "One of the World Leaders in Oil Spills" by statusbar · · Score: 3, Funny

    BP - "One of the World Leaders in Oil Spills and Public Relations Damage Control"

    Have you spilled oil today? Our P.R. team can help!

    --
    ipv6 is my vpn
  14. So... I can transfer money from BP to Google? by localman57 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    So let me get this straight... I can go to Google, type in "oil spill" then click on one of BP's sponsored links. And in the act of doing this, I can magically transfer money, real money, from a company that fucked up the environment to one that gives me free software like Chrome, and Google Earth, and Android?

    Hell yeah!

    1. Re:So... I can transfer money from BP to Google? by RivenAleem · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Now what we need is a press release from Google saying that all revenue generated from the BP add goes towards helping clean the spillage.

      Then we can just sit back while BP goes bankrupt (though I suspect there's an upper limit to the cost of the add...)

    2. Re:So... I can transfer money from BP to Google? by RKThoadan · · Score: 1

      I've tried to get a sponsored link a few times just to do this and I can't get one. Where's my advertising?!

    3. Re:So... I can transfer money from BP to Google? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No they are BUYING the keywords. Meaning they are paying for it TOO google...

    4. Re:So... I can transfer money from BP to Google? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I kinda feel like writing a little bot that would do those clicks for me, oh, 1000 times / second. Too bad that's not so legal, click-fraud would be a nice way to fight a bunch sea-killing frauds.

    5. Re:So... I can transfer money from BP to Google? by CODiNE · · Score: 1

      Sounds cool til you type in "bp top hat" and find clothing.

      --
      Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
    6. Re:So... I can transfer money from BP to Google? by AnonymousClown · · Score: 1
      Son of A Bitch! You have a brilliant point!

      EVERYONE! Click on the links, transfer money to Google and bankrupt BP!

      --
      RIP America

      July 4, 1776 - September 11, 2001

    7. Re:So... I can transfer money from BP to Google? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had to turn off Ad Block Plus in order to get sponsored links. Then I didn't get BP, but I got some ambulance chasers trying to profit of the oil spill. I'd forgotten there's worse scum than oil execs.

    8. Re:So... I can transfer money from BP to Google? by AndrewNeo · · Score: 1

      I believe Adwords (and most internet ad systems) work by you putting a certain amount of money in, then each click takes it out of that amount until you're empty.

    9. Re:So... I can transfer money from BP to Google? by XorNand · · Score: 1

      You can set a daily spend limit, but the ads aren't prepaid. Google charges your credit card at the end of the month.

      --
      Entrepreneur : (noun), French for "unemployed"
    10. Re:So... I can transfer money from BP to Google? by Jainith · · Score: 1

      Actually as far as I know it is completly legal for you to write a script to instruct your computer to request the document located at a given URL.

      1000 times a second, or whatever...It would be stupid for the provider to actually respond to all of your requests. And in fact Google has click-fraud checking mechinisms to prevent them from billing for things like this.

      Immoral != Illegal

      The definition of immoral (and illegal if you want to be technical) depends upon intent.

    11. Re:So... I can transfer money from BP to Google? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm pretty sure that would be illegal. That would basically be Google stealing money from them.

    12. Re:So... I can transfer money from BP to Google? by blair1q · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No it wouldn't. BP contracted with Google for visibility and clicks. Google contracted with BP for payment. BP gets its visibility and clicks, and Google gets its payment.

      It's no business of BP's how Google drives traffic to BP or what Google does with the money, unless the contract itself contains limitations on those things.

      Moral: when selling your soul, make sure you read what you sign.

    13. Re:So... I can transfer money from BP to Google? by StormReaver · · Score: 1

      though I suspect there's an upper limit to the cost of the add...

      I believe it's no more than 1 clock cycle.

    14. Re:So... I can transfer money from BP to Google? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's no business of BP's how Google drives traffic to BP or what Google does with the money

      It is, because...

      unless the contract itself contains limitations on those things.

      ...it does.

  15. check out BPGlobalPR by RockGrumbler · · Score: 1, Redundant

    People should check out BPGlobalPR on twitter. It is some guy in his underwear parodying BP spin control. He posted this last night - "By the way, we made it so if you google image search "oil spill" or "bp" you'll see some great celeb sideboob pics. #bpcares"

  16. Speaking of which... by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 3, Funny

    I guess if you can't plug your spill, the least you can do is try to clog the flow of information.

    Related: http://digg.com/comedy/Massive_Flow_Of_Bull****_Continues_To_Gush_From_BP

    1. Re:Speaking of which... by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 1

      Whoops, I suppose I should have linked to the actual article. Oh well, sorry about that.

  17. I get 2 sponsored links right now by Rockoon · · Score: 4, Informative

    One is to:

    www.BP.com/OilSpillNews "Info about the Gulf of Mexico Spill Learn More about How BP is Helping."

    The other is:

    Tar Ball Burner(tm) "Collect free tar balls from beaches and turn them into unleaded gas!"

    Please slashdot both of them.

    --
    "His name was James Damore."
    1. Re:I get 2 sponsored links right now by oranGoo · · Score: 0

      I wish I had mod points!

      Btw, it is one down, one to go

    2. Re:I get 2 sponsored links right now by jeffmeden · · Score: 1

      OMG lol.

      You almost had me, then I saw this on the side of the page almost at the bottom:

      Almost every home in Tokyo uses an Electronic Bidet to spray water at their butt.

      Why don't we?

      As if that weren't enough, right after it there's an ad for an $800 Ethernet tap...

    3. Re:I get 2 sponsored links right now by PhilHibbs · · Score: 1

      www.BP.com/OilSpillNews "Info about the Gulf of Mexico Spill Learn More about How BP is Helping." ...
      Please slashdot both of them.

      The BP link is a blank page to me. Also I don't get any sponsored links here in the UK, I guess the keywords are regional. I wonder if the BP page is regional.

    4. Re:I get 2 sponsored links right now by e9th · · Score: 1

      For those who don't know, Mike Sandman has lots of hard to find things for POTS phone installation and support. Among other things, I replace older PBX systems with asterisk, and sometimes he is the only source for the parts I need.


      Having said that, my favorite Sandman product is the Taseler(tm).
      "You'll have the best dressed and most respectful children in your neighborhood, or Your Money Back!"

    5. Re:I get 2 sponsored links right now by Ksevio · · Score: 1

      The Tar Ball Burner(TM) is protected under US Patent 5,870,779, and other pending US and International Patents.

      Hmmm and that patent would be?

      Undergarment with a testicle pouch and genital space

      Ah it all makes sense now...

  18. Ha, jokes on them by harris+s+newman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Wait till they declare a profit this quarter. The whole country will draw and quarter them.

    1. Re:Ha, jokes on them by Ironchew · · Score: 1

      Wait till they declare a profit this quarter. The whole country will draw and quarter them.

      Yeah, just like we did with Goldman Sachs. Oh, wait.
      These corporations are acting with impunity simply because they know the legislators are fully behind them. Any attempt from the public to demand accountability (like revoking their corporate charter or seize all their assets in the United States) will immediately result in a media blitz where "the country is on the brink of socialism". If grassroots activism can't push past this point, BP will get away with this now and in the future.

    2. Re:Ha, jokes on them by maxume · · Score: 1

      Public opinion of Goldman Sachs is far worse than any malfeasance that occurred there should inspire.

      They are perhaps uncomfortably crossed up with a bunch of government positions, but 'competent millionaire' isn't such a bad description when you are looking at whether someone is a good choice as a high level public servant, they are not a moron and are may have slaked their moneylust (I suppose it might be a bad description for people that believe anyone with money is a corrupt asshole).

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
  19. Apparently the only thing BP can plug up... by Drakkenmensch · · Score: 1, Funny

    ...is the flow of information, amirite?

    1. Re:Apparently the only thing BP can plug up... by steelfood · · Score: 1

      And they say information wants to be free. I guess oil wants to be free that much more.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
  20. Keeping Science Vessels Away by Bananatree3 · · Score: 1

    I would have brought in a fleet of NOAA research vessels accompanied by a full-flotilla of Coast Guard or Navy accompaniment, just to show BP no-one owns the ocean.

    1. Re:Keeping Science Vessels Away by FuckingNickName · · Score: 1

      You've obviously not been watching the last 20 to 30 years of military engagement. BP know exactly who owns the ocean - it's you who doesn't.

    2. Re:Keeping Science Vessels Away by SleazyRidr · · Score: 1

      There are enough BP vessels around out there trying to limit the damage that it's already a big issue for them to manage the traffic. Your solution is to bring in even more boats and hamper their efforts even more?

    3. Re:Keeping Science Vessels Away by JumpDrive · · Score: 1

      What vessels?
      What kind?
      how many vessels?
      What are the vessels doing? spraying dispersants? Dispersants don't remove the oil from the water.
      This spill stretches from Louisiana to Florida.
      I don't think they have enough ships out there now doing what they need to be doing, which is removing the oil from the water, not hiding it under the water.

    4. Re:Keeping Science Vessels Away by SleazyRidr · · Score: 1

      I don't know the names of every vessel out there.

      There are vessels spraying dispersants, which doesn't remove the oil from the water, as you correctly mentioned, but does keep it down where the oil eating bacteria lives.

      There are also the skimming operations removing the oil from the surface of the water.

      There are also vessels monitoring the level of volatile organic in the air. You see, there is gas in the oil, and if too much vapourizes into the air, that'd be a big problem.

      There are a few ships drilling relief wells.

      There's the ship that's capturing the oil from the cap they now have in place, and all the offloading vessels that are needed for that.

      Then you've got all the supply vessels needed for all the other vessels out there.

      I don't think they have enough ships out there now doing what they need to be doing, which is removing the oil from the water, not hiding it under the water.

      How did you come to this conclusion?

    5. Re:Keeping Science Vessels Away by JumpDrive · · Score: 1

      here's a report on what scientist have been talking about for the past 2 weeks. Where did they think all this oil was going?
      And if they think that microbes are going to eat up all this oil, well they haven't been reading the studies. Yes eventually it would, but it would be well after severe environmental damage.

  21. They really ought to save their money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    they will come in handy when it's time to pay the bill for what they have destroyed.

    1. Re:They really ought to save their money by ProdigyPuNk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're out of your mind if you think they are going to get the bill for "what they have destroyed". I'm sure they'll be fined an amount that SEEMS like a lot to everyday joes, but is in fact next to meaningless to a huge corp. like BP. A big enough fine should preclude them from declaring any profit for that quarter - wait and see, I'm sure they'll be declaring plenty of profit...

    2. Re:They really ought to save their money by blair1q · · Score: 1

      I have faith that they will end up paying for the cleanup. Mr. Obama is taking an undeserved pasting for being the supervisor instead of the RPV operator on this, and that's got him pissing and nuking mad.

      Fortunately for Fox News, the President of the United States is not a king, and can't just waltz in and start lopping off heads. Justice for corporate infractions takes time, as does capping and cleaning up, and lawyering only makes that take longer and the amount of money available to lawyers only makes them multiply like tribbles. That gives Fox "News" an opening to spin Obama's inability to act capriciously as a weakness. Of course all they're doing is criticizing the democracy, but they won't tell you that, they'll just act indignant and fill their Hummers up at the Arco on the way home each night.

      But in the end, the gummint is the biggest lawyer there is, and wins when it wants to.

      We'll be seeing reports of totalizations of BP's recompense to the treasury on this for decades, and zeitgeist reruns of the footage of billowing plumes under the sea for a century or more. If there's oil then, BP will probably be selling it in the BP store next to the Apple store at the mall.

    3. Re:They really ought to save their money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Personally, I hope that this "sours the milk" so to speak with professionally owned congress critters, and gets spun to facilitate replacement/repair of our aging power infrastructure, and to create sustainable "green" //*god i hate that word..*// energy sources.

      Seriously: Here in Kansas, we have enough predictable and consistent wind energy (as measured by the meteorological societies in the area) to power not only our whole fucking state, but also 3 others.

      Yet, windmills are 'Tacky', and "they kill birds that fly into them", and "They clutter up the landscape", and $FarcicalRebuttalHere.

      In addition to that, if we DID build the windmills, we would have to replace the inter-state power grid, because that grid was designed by very early electrical engineers, nearly a century ago, and it barely carries the inter-state load we currently pass through it as-is. It is leaky, inefficient, and susceptible to unspeakable numbers of potential failure situations. (not the least of which is the danger from solar weather.)

      So, again, I hope that the unconscionable loss of economic stability in the Gulf coast area wakes up a few congress critters, and gets them to sign on board with the kinds of massive overhauls of our power delivery system that has caused this run-away demand on early completion of this well-gone-mad, and gets them to reconsider their loyalty to big oil. (re-election *IS* just around the corner...)

  22. Surprisingly Competant for an Evil Villain by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Interesting

    But I guess they're doing pretty well so far with their coverage on bp.com and using dispersants to keep most of the spill at depth and keeping away science vessels so they're free to misunderestimate the true magnitude.

    Science vessels? According to Newsweek, it's photographers and people looking to document the damage that BP is turning away. Now that's some unadulterated bullshit "damage control."

    I heard on NPR that some people looking to investigate beaches were turned away by policeman and when they asked the policemen who was paying them to do that the policeman said they were off duty police officers employed by BP. I don't know if that's true or if the people are lying but the stinks worse than crude if it's the truth and I hope the US AG criminal investigation gets to the bottom of that.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:Surprisingly Competant for an Evil Villain by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Actually here is the NOTAM
      http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_0_2957.html#restrictions
      Yep flight restrictions from surface to 3000 ft.
      But dudes that is what telephoto lenses are for.
      3000 ft isn't that bad of a restriction but it is still a restriction.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    2. Re:Surprisingly Competant for an Evil Villain by rwa2 · · Score: 1

      Science vessels? According to Newsweek, it's photographers and people looking to document the damage that BP is turning away. Now that's some unadulterated bullshit "damage control."

      Ostensibly all that gawker traffic could just get in the way. But earlier on there were some science vessels offering to drop in and help measure the progress of the oil plume in the region, and they were turned away. Though now it looks like just last week, NOAA's started deploying a fleet of research vessels to start measuring
      http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/06/01/95170/noaa-research-ship-to-search-gulf.html

      Anyway, just another lame episode of politicians vs. scientists vs. politicized environmentalists where the scientists are kind of caught in the middle again.
      http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/deepwaterhorizon/7011584.html

    3. Re:Surprisingly Competant for an Evil Villain by 2cb · · Score: 1
      I did a lookup for "offduty police and BP" and fond this link: http://www.cityofpascagoula.com/news/continued-prep-for-oil-spill-1540/
      supporting quote:

      Tuesday, May 18: The City Council passes a resolution authorizing off duty police officers to wear their uniforms and use side arms when employed by BP or their sub-contractors for security purposes within the city limits of Pascagoula. The presence of these officers at the staging areas has facilitated movement of equipment and personnel while keeping disturbances at a minimum.

    4. Re:Surprisingly Competant for an Evil Villain by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 1

      I heard on NPR that some people looking to investigate beaches were turned away by policeman and when they asked the policemen who was paying them to do that the policeman said they were off duty police officers employed by BP.

      What defines the scope of authority that BP has in a sitation like this? And are there any limitations on their power?

    5. Re:Surprisingly Competant for an Evil Villain by AGMW · · Score: 2, Informative

      I heard on NPR that some people looking to investigate beaches were turned away by policeman and when they asked the policemen who was paying them to do that the policeman said they were off duty police officers employed by BP. I don't know if that's true ...

      ... but I'm going to spread the rumour anyway because it shows BP in a bad light and BP are the current people we love to hate.

      A friend of mine said BP wanted to use mashed up baby dolphins to try and plug the leak, but I don't know if it's true ...

      --
      Eclectic beats from Leeds, UK
      handmadehands.co.uk
    6. Re:Surprisingly Competant for an Evil Villain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I dunno, I hear a lot of things on Fox that aren't true and they still seem to be saying it.

    7. Re:Surprisingly Competant for an Evil Villain by k8to · · Score: 1

      Journalism and rumor mills are not equivalent. Repeating news reports is not gossip.

      The repeat may be inaccurate, but your insinuation is pathetic.

      --
      -josh
    8. Re:Surprisingly Competant for an Evil Villain by mike2R · · Score: 1

      Journalism and rumor mills are not equivalent. Repeating news reports is not gossip.

      It is an allegation that is only sourced to an unidentified news broadcast, which was itself hearsay. WTF is that if not gossip?

      --
      This sig all sigs devours
    9. Re:Surprisingly Competant for an Evil Villain by springbox · · Score: 1

      An "NPR news story" is not unidentified. They even post their news programs for free online if you want to listen to them again.

  23. Re:Oh, I;m sorry, I didn't notice it... by lowrydr310 · · Score: 1

    People need to learn how to properly use search engines and interpret their results. SPONSORED LINKS are exactly that - people pay to have their links appear when certain terms are searched; that's how search engines make money. Sponsored links aren't the best and most relevant result for your search (and are likely the exact opposite).

    I have a friend who does affiliate marketing, and makes a lot of money off of people's dumb search habits, specifically their willingness to click sponsored links, believing they're actual search results that link to the retailer they're looking for.

  24. Have they bought "Bitch Please"? by webweave · · Score: 0, Troll

    The president should temporarily take over BP's Gulf operations. We have a national emergency on our hands. No president would sit by and watch a privately owned nuclear reactor melt down and the gulf spill is the environmental equivalent.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/why-obama-should-put-bp-u_b_595346.html

    1. Re:Have they bought "Bitch Please"? by Leebert · · Score: 1

      And how, pray tell, would he do that constitutionally? And what exactly would he do to kill the well that BP isn't already doing?

      I'm personally convinced that if I walked up to the BP CEO this very second and said, "I can shut off the oil spill right now if you write me a check for $2 Billion", I wouldn't even have finished the sentence before the check would be written. It is absolutely, positively in BP's best interests to have this well shut down immediately using any means possible, and I for one am convinced that they are working toward that end. Having the President unconstitutionally nationalizing their company would change what? Perhaps the environmental mitigations, yes. But the President already has access to the entire Navy and Coast Guard, and working to contain the oil spill is certainly within their capability. Leave BP alone and let the engineers do their work, shutting down the well in the safest way plausible. You can crucify them for their atrocious risk management later.

      I'm open to being convinced that BP isn't doing everything in its power to shut down this well, and that the U.S. government can somehow make that better. Convince me, I'm willing to listen.

    2. Re:Have they bought "Bitch Please"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      THE IXTOC 1 OIL WELL (June 1979 - March 1980)... I'm not sure what Carter did to cap it, but I don't remember him "taking over".

    3. Re:Have they bought "Bitch Please"? by SleazyRidr · · Score: 1

      What the fuck does Obama know about oil drilling? What could he possibly do any differently to what BP is already doing?

      Also, what the fuck does he know about nuclear reactors? What could he do if one was melting down?

      He's the president, not Superman.

    4. Re:Have they bought "Bitch Please"? by AndersOSU · · Score: 1

      It's not about what Obama could do differently it's about responsibility.

      BP's primary responsibility isn't to clean up the Gulf, it's to preserve shareholder value. There is a great deal of overlap, but they are not the same.

      If BP North America were placed into temporary receivership we could be assured that decisions are being made by people who's primary responsibility is to the country, not to BP's investors.

      Receivership wouldn't mean that the well would get capped any faster, but it would probably mean that people who were economically impacted would be more likely to be made whole.

  25. Clog the flow of information? by mea37 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Relax, dude, I'm pretty sure we can all find plenty of things to blame BP for without pretending that buying keyword impressions is somehow harmful.

    Go google "oil spill". Sure enough, the top sponsored link will be the BP oil spill site. The other sponsored link will be... yet another partison point of view from someone who was willing to pay to get a message out. That's what sponsored links are.

    Right below them - right where they always are - you still find the real search results. How that squares with the flow of information being "clogged" is beyond me.

    I'd find more to complain about if BP wasn't trying to present a strong media presence. You know, saying "I'd like my life back" or something like that.

  26. Somebody should buy BP by dward90 · · Score: 1

    For any company with an extra $40B lying around, a takeover of BP while trumpeting "We will fix this collosal disaster because BP can't!" would be a PR goldmine. Use BP's equipment and personel to keep working on the spill, then reap the massive profits that the company will continue to make after this mess is all but forgotten by society's collective ADHD.

    --
    My other sig is clever.
    1. Re:Somebody should buy BP by cowscows · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The only problem is that there's no good solution here. BP's people aren't the only ones trying to stop the leak, you've got engineers from all of the big companies working on this. They all see the damage that this spill is doing to their industry and want it stopped. The point is that nobody knows how to stop this, short of relief wells. There's already a ton of uncertainty about how much oil has leaked, how much more is going to leak, what's going to happen to all that oil under the water, what happens when a hurricane tears through the gulf, whether or not the oil will find its way around florida and up the east coast, and who knows what else is going to happen in the next 6-8 weeks before the relief wells have drilled deep enough.

      There's just way too much uncertainty about when the leak will be fixed, what the actual ecological and economic damage will be, and how hard the government will eventually come down on BP. I don't think that anyone who really looks at the situation could reliably predict what sort of financial liabilities you'd be purchasing if you bought BP. You'd be insane to seriously consider buying them right now.

      --

      One time I threw a brick at a duck.

  27. How much does it cost BP when I click their link? by wonkavader · · Score: 1

    Cause I have a mouse, here, and I could click it a LOT.

  28. This Should Be A Fun Thread by BJ_Covert_Action · · Score: 1

    Hmmmm, a story combining the ever-inflammatory idea of censorship with the, 'greatest environmental disaster of our time,' delivered right to our internet front-door here on slashdot. I have my money on more than 400 comments in the first 4 hours.

    This should be fun. =)

    /popcorn

  29. Well said. by FatSean · · Score: 1

    I share your optimism. I hope that the victims never tire of reminding us what happened in the Gulf. We as a nation have a pretty short attention span.

    --
    Blar.
    1. Re:Well said. by AGMW · · Score: 1

      We as a nation have a pretty short attention span.

      Er ... about what dude?

      --
      Eclectic beats from Leeds, UK
      handmadehands.co.uk
  30. Its pretty straightforward actually by retardpicnic · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Completely BS writeup of the article. This is a straightforward and common tactic used by companies in situations like this. Yes, with all the band-wagoning and rhetoric surrounding the issue its not even a bad idea. The spill is obviously a tragedy of incredible proportions, which invites entirely too much disinformation, half truth and anecdotal evidence. No matter what BP did here they would be crucified for either having no strategy, or (like the poster did) assuming the strategy was a CYA move. Everyone is so busy hating right now must forget that BP was a darling until this happened. They gave 7 million to politicians last year, testified before congress, were given one of the largest tax breaks in history by the bush regime. we all helped create this monster. live with it.

    --
    sig loading.......
    1. Re:Its pretty straightforward actually by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      The spill is obviously a tragedy of incredible proportions, which invites entirely too much disinformation, half truth and anecdotal evidence

      Like "it's only leaking 5,000 barrels a day" or "there is no evidence for oil plumes".

      Oh wait, that was BP. What were you saying about disinformation, half truth and anecdotal evidence?

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    2. Re:Its pretty straightforward actually by gmack · · Score: 1

      Exactly, I've seen a ton of commentary saying it should be easy to just plug the leak and they are letting the leak continue because they want to keep collecting oil from it etc.

      Most of the solutions I've seen offered are covered by the saying "Anything is easy if you don't know what your talking about"

      To be sure it seems BP messed up badly before the accident by skimping on technology that may have prevented this but the conspiracy theories don't help at all.

    3. Re:Its pretty straightforward actually by retardpicnic · · Score: 1

      SO BP didn't tell the entire truth , or the higher ups were getting best case figures? Wow, ALERT!! The guy with the funny sig has BREAKING NEWS! OMFG! Corp full of shit.. on right after the Jesus moped story!

      --
      sig loading.......
  31. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  32. Is this really news? by not+already+in+use · · Score: 1

    Yes, if you search for "oil spill" in google, there is a single sponsored link (and identified as such) before the search results. About 6 results down, there are image results with oil covered birds and such. Is it news that one of the most profitable companies in the world is spending a relatively piddly amount on damage control? It's not as if they are buying out search engines.

    --
    Similes are like metaphors
  33. They should probably save they're money by jimmyfrank · · Score: 1

    Stop wasting it on stupid stuff like this and save it for the cleanup.

  34. Cost them money!!! by nweaver · · Score: 1

    Search for "Oil Spill" and then click on the ad, then close the browser...

    --
    Test your net with Netalyzr
  35. Worked great for me by sunking2 · · Score: 1

    Personally I thought it was great as it made it nice and easy for me to find their ROV camera page which I love. So what's the problem here?

  36. Some Perspective by Anne_Nonymous · · Score: 1

    The last figure I heard for PR money spent was $50 million. The last figure I heard for potential cleanup costs was $25 billion (about the same as their 2009 profits). While spin control on a hideous accident may not be in good taste, I don't think advertising expense is what's going to stop them from fulfilling their remediation obligations.

  37. they've been spinning this all along by Locutus · · Score: 1

    they've been under estimating the leaking oil, telling us things are progressing fine and then telling us they failed, etc etc so I hope this bit about them purchasing search terms is not a surprise. They, like Exxon before them, plan on surviving this and moving on with business of making billions in profit every year from oil sales. They might have to change their name in the US though because the Gulf is not Alaska and it's likely that this could spread up the easter seaboard too. All area which are far more populated than where the Exxon Valdez mess occurred.

    I don't think this will be the last bit of spin we'll be seeing from them. I've already noticed that their public relations people are spinning the leak estimation numbers as US government defined estimates. My guess is that if they put a real cap on this and therefore have a measured amount of flow, the numbers will have to be made public. Changing the perception that the under estimated values were government estimates cover there asses when the real numbers come to light. There's more spin to come.

    LoB

    --
    "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
    1. Re:they've been spinning this all along by captain_dope_pants · · Score: 1

      It's standard practice to try and spin a story. They're just trying to pour oil on troubled waters... err...

      --
      while (true != false) process_more_stupid_code();
    2. Re:they've been spinning this all along by Locutus · · Score: 1

      good one!

      LoB

      --
      "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
  38. Not a problem. BP more expensive by AnonymousClown · · Score: 1

    In metro Atlanta, BP stations charge on average 11 cents more than everyone else for gas; which apparently isn't a local problem.

    --
    RIP America

    July 4, 1776 - September 11, 2001

  39. Am I the only one... by hort_wort · · Score: 0, Troll

    who wants to watch the Alien movies again? Think about it for a moment: if Weyland-Yutani was practicing business today, is there a better way to be evil/deceptive than this? Don't answer that -- you might give them ideas.

    1. Re:Am I the only one... by hort_wort · · Score: 1

      That was labelled as a troll? Wow. I was on topic and made a comparison to a well known fictional corporation that a lot of folks here adore. Let me help you guys out: /. sucks because if the first person to read something doesn't get your reference, then no one else reads it at all. Buncha nerdholes. That's a troll.

    2. Re:Am I the only one... by bunnyman · · Score: 1

      That was labelled as a troll? Wow. .

      Somehow, BP got mod points.

  40. Do you drive a car? This is your fault by cryfreedomlove · · Score: 0, Troll

    I drive a car to work each day. I create demand for gasoline, which creates demand for off shore drilling. My next car will be electric. I'm waiting for the Chevy Volt to come out. Then I won't have oil soaked birds or the blood of young soldiers in Iraq on my conscience.

  41. The wrong tack... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If this pisses you off, do something. Click on A LOT of ads, and ignore the propaganda. Adword-wastage: it's the new boycott!

    1. Re:The wrong tack... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah! Let's all click on those ads!

      All those clicks could cost BP the equivalent of ten, maybe barrels of oil. That'll hurt their business.

      For a tech savvy website there sure is a lot of innumeracy here.
      Let me guess, you're all web designers, right?

  42. Want a Millionaire Mate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Post your profile on " R i c h C h a tS .c o m" and contact with millions of quality members now!

  43. Missed opportunity by copponex · · Score: 1

    After 9/11, we could have easily used the national will to ditch foreign oil like Carter tried to do in the late 1970s. Unfortunately, we were told to get back to work and keep shopping, while the terrorists were "brought to justice."

    Nearly ten years later, we have no high level convictions in any court, only dead suspects. Our economy has been wrecked by tax cuts during a time in which we spent an extra three trillion dollars or so on military expenditures. We've doubled the death toll of Americans, maimed thousands more, killed at least one hundred thousand civilians, and we are still happily sending cash directly into the pockets of the people who fund Al Qaeda.

    Oil is also mainly responsible for the looming climate change that may spur even more resource wars across the world, not to mention the simple catastrophic effects of having it spill anywhere.

    They don't call oil the devil's excrement for nothing.

  44. The Onion's take on the spill by millwall · · Score: 1

    According to The Onion BP hasn't just caused an oil spill...

  45. spill baby spill by jDeepbeep · · Score: 1

    but you're having a much larger impact on the guy who owns that station

    Sometimes when you do business with the devil, you get burned.

    --
    Reply to That ||
  46. Local businesses are just going to have to suffer by Benfea · · Score: 1

    Eventually, they'll go out of business and be replaced by vendors selling oil from a more responsible company. That's how capitalism works, or at least that's how it's supposed to work.

  47. click click click by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I say we get a campaign going to get as many people to constantly click on these ads. They will end up getting quite a bill!

  48. Greenpeace's Design New Logo For BP Contest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  49. I honestly don't blame them by LBArrettAnderson · · Score: 1

    The media hasn't exactly been objective with its coverage, either. If you'll actually do some research on most of these BP stories, you'll find that the media will do anything to paint BP in a more negative than deserved light. Negative story == more pageviews and more money. BP couldn't possibly offset the biased news coverage of the situation, so I see no problem with them buying ads.
     
    And don't get me wrong, I don't think BP is perfect, and they've done plenty of things wrong, but I see a lot of "screw BP" and very little reason for it (relative to how much it's said).

    Just google search oil spill and you'll see what I mean!... (sorry, I had to make that joke, but the first part of my comment is not sarcastic at all).

    1. Re:I honestly don't blame them by MightyMartian · · Score: 2, Informative

      Ah yes, the ol' "the media is evil vs. the just-a-little-evil-company/politician/organization".

      Whatever the media has been doing, it's BP whose spinning is making things worse. They lied about the amount of oil leaking. They tried to deny there were oil plumes, basically calling a number of experts alarmists. They've bullshitted about the amount of aid they've been providing, the amount of work they've been doing on the cleanup.

      BP isn't just "not perfect", it's a pack of self-serving liars who, on top of everything else, are too fucking stupid to realize that every line of bullshit they try to foist on the public gets them in even more trouble.

      The truth may not set you free, but sometimes it at least can mitigate the damage. If they had said three or four weeks ago "we could be leaking up to 20,000 barrels a day", yes, they would have gone a lot of bad press, but at least the bad press wouldn't have involved "you're lying bastards". The same with the oil plumes.

      The people that caused this disaster were BP. The people who are creating a fair amount of the bad PR is BP. As the old saying goes, "blaming the press is like a captain blaming the sea".

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    2. Re:I honestly don't blame them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah yes, the ol' "the media is evil vs. the just-a-little-evil-company/politician/organization".

      The media has more power to misinform than any company in existence. And they often abuse that power. If we don't call them out every once in a while it's only going to get worse.

    3. Re:I honestly don't blame them by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      BP is pretty much the sole source of information on key aspects of the spill. The media is not to blame for what has happened. You're full of shit.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    4. Re:I honestly don't blame them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where do you hear that information from? The media. They put their own spin on everything that they get. I never said the media is to blame for what has happened, only that they will skew any and all details just to get a story.

    5. Re:I honestly don't blame them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where's your source saying they knew they were lying about all of those things? It's much different if they think they're telling the truth. You could maybe blame them for not allowing a more thorough analysis, but that still isn't anywhere near the same level as lying.

    6. Re:I honestly don't blame them by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      Yes, poor BP. Imagine having reporters interested in the fact that your fucking up the Gulf of Mexico through greed and incompetence. Perhaps we should get rid of the media, that way BP can spread its lies without anyone to say "um..."

      For the record, it is BP who openly lied about the amount of oil being puked out into the Gulf. It's BP that lied about the existence of oil plumes. It's BP that's still lying about employing fishermen. It's BP that isn't returning the calls of most, if not all, Gulf Coast mayors.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  50. Media outrage against Google and Yahoo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have a slightly different outlook. I actually think this is a good thing as every time someone clicks on a sponsered link BP looses money and your favorite search engine gets money.

  51. Re:How about they take that money by cowscows · · Score: 1

    PR is still important. It's important because the anger of the citizens does effect how hard the government comes down on BP. It makes a difference on how much BP ends up paying in monetary damages. It makes a difference in how stringent the inevitable new drilling regulations are. It makes a difference on whether or not the government feels compelled to press criminal charges against the executives.

    --

    One time I threw a brick at a duck.

  52. Greenwashing. An example. by jackpot777 · · Score: 1

    Greenwashing: the practice of companies disingenuously spinning their products and policies as environmentally friendly. For example - if your company spends more in a year on redesigning and distributing its logo to look like a Spirograph green sun than it spent on solar power development in a six year period, that's greenwashing.

    --
    Shiny. Let's be bad guys...
  53. Leak, not spill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They are calling it a 'leak'. It does sound less negative that way...

  54. Why are we supposed to be angry again? by unjedai · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So BP is spending their money on ads for a relevant search term and when you click on the ad you are lead to information on what they are doing with the oil spill. And we're supposed to be angry at them for doing this? Huh? Maybe their info is bogus or they should be providing more info. Maybe they have totally botched the oil spill. But it would make more sense to me if people were outraged if they DIDN'T buy ads that lead people to information.

    1. Re:Why are we supposed to be angry again? by KlausBreuer · · Score: 1

      I am sorry if I seem to misunderstand something, but... who are you? And who gave you "+3, Insightful"?

      Yes. They buy a search term, to try and put a spin on the news. Of course this is irritating. And no, we're not interested in news from them as we know that they have a very large and currently exceptionally busy PR department, making news from them quite worthless.

      Again, sorry if I seem paranoid or something, but... who are you? I keep finding very positive entries, protecting BP, writing positively about them. Seems a bit weird, especially seeing that they're trying to keep 3rd-person data away from this.

      --
      Free PC version of ChipWits at http://www.breueronline.de/klaus/chipwits/
    2. Re:Why are we supposed to be angry again? by unjedai · · Score: 1

      I am sorry if I seem to misunderstand something, but... who are you?

      Not sure how to answer that. I prefer my limited privacy.

      And who gave you "+3, Insightful"?

      No clue.

      Yes. They buy a search term, to try and put a spin on the news. Of course this is irritating. And no, we're not interested in news from them as we know that they have a very large and currently exceptionally busy PR department, making news from them quite worthless.

      Again, sorry if I seem paranoid or something, but... who are you? I keep finding very positive entries, protecting BP, writing positively about them. Seems a bit weird, especially seeing that they're trying to keep 3rd-person data away from this.

      I'm a computer programmer, not a BP employee or apologist. I just think this whole story is upside down. I'm a skeptic by nature and although I love Slashdot I hate groupthink and a lot of Slashdot postings qualify as groupthink in my opinion. I think it's appalling what BP has done to the Gulf, but if I was a responsible company I would do just what they are doing with the Google ads.

    3. Re:Why are we supposed to be angry again? by KlausBreuer · · Score: 1

      >I'm a computer programmer, not a BP employee or apologist.

      Again, my apologies. I just keep getting good news about BP, and sniffing closer at it, I keep running into the PR industry...

      Oh, well. Guess I should trust Slashdot more.... oops. Probably simply need more sleep ;)

      --
      Free PC version of ChipWits at http://www.breueronline.de/klaus/chipwits/
  55. Re:Do you drive a car? This is your fault by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Energy is energy, your electric car will need it. Granted, it will likely be lighter and more energy efficient than current offerings, but if you are trying to make a statement about social responsibility and environmentalism, you need to focus on bicycles (self/human propelled vehicles). Also, bear in mind, that if we (G8/G20) all shift away from oil, that makes it easier/cheaper for developing nations to consume it, so the tide you are stemming at home likely won't reach beyond your borders.
    I'm looking forward to the Nissan Leaf, which will almost certainly be built well, and perform as Nissan claims it will.

  56. If I were President, here's how I'd respond: by mmalove · · Score: 1

    I'd make an example of BP the way we made an example of Philip Morris with cigarettes. Take a portion of BP and all other oil companies profits, and from that drive for renewable energy sources like solar/wind. Make the oil companies fund anti-oil commercials like tobacco revenue funds anti-smoking ads, have them research/subsidize into solar, etc. And make all technologies developed from any think tank funded by these revenues be forever patent free.

    --
    You can get 15 minutes of fame, but you can go down in history for infamy.
  57. I'm feeling lucky by buckadude · · Score: 1

    "I'm feeling lucky" sends me to the wiki for oil spill. USA dude here.

  58. Re:Do you drive a car? This is your fault by night_flyer · · Score: 1

    do you use anything with plastic?
    do you use anything that was transported?

    --


    Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
    Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
  59. Re:Do you drive a car? This is your fault by TechnoFrood · · Score: 1

    I just had to do some reading up on the Volt, you do realise after the first 40 Miles it has to switch to a petrol powered engine to generate electricity to drive the motor/charge the batteries.

    I will admit it does have a higher MPG than most petrol cars, and is similar to most Diesel car's MPG.

    I wonder if all the plastics in a Volt are recycled, and on that subject (but perhaps less importantly) if the lubricants it uses are made from crude oil?

    Disclaimer: I should probably be doing things to reduce my use of oil, my car only gets around 35 MPG, and I drive the mile to work each day, and I guess I could probably shop a bit closer to home instead of the 40mile weekly round trip to Tesco.

  60. Oh come on. by lilfields · · Score: 1

    Of course BP is going to do this, of course they are going to do damage control. You honestly think their PR department should be a mile down plugging a hole? or that a few million in advertising is really going to help with the clean up? Give me a break. People have taken their newly found hatred for BP and turned it into something absolutely ridiculous, so ridiculous in fact that it ignores that...PR and advertising departments have...nothing to do with engineering. Not only that, but the story itself is blatantly bias, as buying advertising is hardly "stopping the flow of information." BP got what's coming to them, but that is hardly a reason to make up fairytale business practices and be completely bias in our narrative about the spill. The crap people are spewing about BP is about as bad, if not worse, than the PR campaign BP is running trying to salvage their brand equity.

  61. Orwellian by catchblue22 · · Score: 1

    Does this not indicate that corporations such as BP, when under the gun will result to Orwellian bending of reality to serve their interests. I must admit I am disturbed by the recent comments by the BP CEO that minimize the environmental impacts of the spill.

    Their apparent strategy:

    Understate the amount of oil erupting from the well.

    Apply dispersants so much of the oil stays underwater.

    Implement a PR strategy to deny the impact of the invisible underwater oil.

    --
    This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when first he appears as a protector - Plato (423 to 327 BC)
    1. Re:Orwellian by russotto · · Score: 1

      Apply dispersants so much of the oil stays underwater.

      That's not the purpose of dispersants, nor, I believe, is it the effect thereof. The dispersants are intended to increase the surface area of the oil, allowing chemical and biological processes to break it down more quickly.

    2. Re:Orwellian by blackraven14250 · · Score: 1

      If you've seen the images, dispersant-laden oil ends up as globs in the water column and not on the surface of the water.

    3. Re:Orwellian by AndersOSU · · Score: 1

      That's not the purpose of dispersant ... when applied at the surface.

      When applied at 5000', the hope is that the oil never shows up.

    4. Re:Orwellian by Diantre · · Score: 1

      When he said "surface area", he meant that the surface of the oil itself is in contact with more water (tiny particles, as opposed to a big giant glob of oil) not with the ocean's surface. (same principle as stranded wires giving a better connection than solid wires)

  62. Transocean by bigjools · · Score: 1

    What I'd like to know is why Transocean, the US company that owned and operated the rig is apparently blameless for this yet BP is being vilified. Transocean is also seeking to use an 1851 law to restrict its liability for economic damages to $26.7 million whereas BP is not. More here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/7806200/Gulf-of-Mexico-oil-spill-Transocean-silent-as-BP-bears-the-brunt-of-anger.html

    1. Re:Transocean by maxume · · Score: 1

      If you lease a vehicle from GM and use it to mow down pedestrians, would you expect GM to be on trial with you?

      The contract between BP and Transocean almost certainly favors Transocean in this circumstance. That shouldn't protect Transocean if they were doing something criminal, but it isn't particularly controversial that BP is otherwise responsible for the liability.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    2. Re:Transocean by bigjools · · Score: 1

      That's not an equivalent analogy. If it were, then GM would be driving their own car. BP only owned the rights to drill and the oil, when found.

  63. I get non-BP results by Wokan · · Score: 1

    Not sure what's different about my searches, but oil spill returns Wikipedia, Huffington Post, NY Times, Yahoo news, etc. I don't actually see a BP site in there and no sponsored ads at all. Maybe we Slashdotted their ad budget. Hooray for our team if so.

    1. Re:I get non-BP results by societyofrobots · · Score: 1

      Same here. Seems no one checked before posting =P

    2. Re:I get non-BP results by yotto · · Score: 1

      I sadly did not take a screencap this morning, but I saw with my own eyes the BP site as the #1 result when I typed "oil spill."

      It was not an ad. It was not a "sponsored link." It was a search term. too have AdBlock installed and don't see those links.

      I am also now seeing what you are all seeing. Google changed their mind, apparently, and shied away from being evil again.

  64. I hoped they paid billions for the keyword by herojig · · Score: 1

    I hoped they paid billions for the keyword 'cause typing that into google gives you the first page with no BP propaganda whatsoever, unless you include what is being said in newspaper articles and wikis. Ha!

    --
    I think therefore I can't be ~TTNH
  65. Watermarked gas? by TiggertheMad · · Score: 1

    Well, you might be affecting BP a little but you're having a much larger impact on the guy who owns that station. A huge impact if you're there all day appealing to people's empathy for the Gulf.

    very true, but when do boycotts NOT hurt the middle man? It is kind of rare that you can directly target a company's bottom line without collateral damage. The real problem with boycotting local BP stations isn't that you might destroy a few local businesses, its that BP has a product that cannot be tracked. If BP cannot sell its product via retail, it can just sell it's product to other companies to resell, and you will never know.

    --

    HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
  66. Junk shot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    BP is now trying to fill the inter-tubes with junk in an effort to stop the uncontrolled flow of information...

  67. BP is a failure of corporate responsibility. by webweave · · Score: 1

    A company does not plug a poorly managed leaking hole in the sea, the employees plug the hole. This would not change under receivership.

    BP is only a corporate facade, the government used to have the power to remove this facade if it no longer has this power then American has become a Fascist nation where foreign corporations have more power that "we the people".

    From what I'm hearing BP has avoided proper safety methods in favor of protecting shareholder value. This has caused the loss of 11 lives, people were killed on that platform! Remember back to the Exxonvaldez, Exxon repeatedly and continuously fought in court to reduce its responsibility and receivership would prevent BP from putting the interest of its management and shareholders ahead of the damage they caused like Exxon did.

  68. OMG they still have budget to buy something ?!?!? by DrLov3 · · Score: 1

    What BP is still a company?????

    First we need to fine the board of directors sooo much money that they'll have to go to China sell some kidneys on the black market to pay up.

    Then we need to lock them up in jail in Yemen for criminal negligence. I mean we do have the memo proving it : http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/archives/2010/05/leaked_bp_memo.php

  69. containment vs capture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The big unreported tragedy here is how much effort BP is putting into capturing the oil, vs. stopping the flow. They are still, despite the historically unprecedented damage they are causing, more concerned with how to maximize their profit rather than minimize the damage.

  70. Spin Baby Spin!!!!!!!!! by mikeskup · · Score: 1

    Was drill baby drill,
    But I think now it's

    Spin Baby Spin!!!!!!!!!

    --
    locked out of this slashdot account for 10+ years... Im back
  71. I'm actually somewhat impressed by blair1q · · Score: 1

    BP's PR campaign has been a bit late, but, at least for me halfway across the country from the first-person impact of the sludge, it's making fine use of available media and hitting the notes it needs to hit.

    Of course, I'm tone-deaf and have sources of factual information available to me, so I'm all for boiling Tony Hayward in light sweet crude, but he's getting his money's worth from his image folks.

  72. Re:Do you drive a car? This is your fault by xaxa · · Score: 1

    An electric car is still two tonnes of metal and plastic, with a high production cost and a detrimental effect on the environment, even if you buy only non-fossil-fuel electricity to run it.

    It would be better to drive your existing car less, and walk, cycle or use public transport instead. If you don't already, why not walk all journeys of less than 1 mile, cycle anything less than 5-10 miles, and take a train for your next longer distance trip?

    I still share responsibility (sort of) for the Gulf and Iraq, although according to this site, my carbon footprint is 53% of the British average:
    * House 1.20 tonnes of CO2
    * Flights 0.95 tonnes of CO2
    * Car 0.00 tonnes of CO2
    * Motorbike 0.00 tonnes of CO2
    * Bus & Rail 0.18 tonnes of CO2
    * Secondary 2.94 tonnes of CO2
    (With very little estimation. I have the last 12 months of gas and electricity bills online, and also receipts from buying train tickets and flights online. The website for London's public transport records the last few months of bus/tube journeys using my card, so I've extrapolated that to the whole year.)

  73. AdBlock to the rescue by hacksoncode · · Score: 1

    Yet *another* reason to install AdBlock... reduced propaganda!

  74. How, exactly... by kenh · · Score: 1

    How exactly does buying advertising space around search engine results "clog the flow of information"?

    All it does is give them a hook to ensure their information/spin is included in the mix - for better or worse, it doesn't do anything except block out lower-paying advertisers on related search results...

    --
    Ken
  75. Re:Do you drive a car? This is your fault by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A 13 mpg sports car baby!

    Fuck your hippy ass!

  76. Opportunity by phiz187 · · Score: 1

    So, by clicking on the sponsored links we can cause BP to pay money to Google? (Presuming that AdSense charges for click-throughs as well as page-impressions.) Okay, I'm there.

    --
    Pretend I said something meaningful or insightful here.
  77. Stopping the spread of embarrassing information by psithurism · · Score: 1

    while opening themselves to click fraud.

  78. Cool you jets sparky. by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

    Actually these are from the ROVs and not from the camera at the well head. You can pick from the different ROVs which is kinda cool. Even if it is government mandated it is cools to pick from the ROVs.
    Dude I didn't call it a kindness so stop being universally mad at everything BP does.
    This is at worst a so what they are trying to put the best spin on this they can. Which is totally to be expected. You can be mad all you like at them not following safety regulations, using the BOP that had a known hydraulic leak, and even keeping the press at a distance.
    But getting mad over this is like getting pissed that they are spending money on toilet paper in their offices and not using the money for the cleanup.
    Good grief folks as I said this is such a none story and the venom that is being shown dilutes the justifiable dislike of the real issues BP has caused.
    In other words people need to not be mindless flaming hate machines. Instead say this is what they did wrong and this is what they need to do.

    --
    See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  79. Been Punished, eh? by swschrad · · Score: 1

    that isn't what I hear from relatives on the gulf.

    incidentally, do you have any really good plans for million-volt stun guns that are about two feet long and under a couple pounds? promised I'd look around.

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
  80. Re:They should probably save. They're money. by mcgrew · · Score: 1

    Yes, they are.

  81. Re:They should probably save. They're money. by jimmyfrank · · Score: 1

    whoops, "their", posting from a mobile is bleh

  82. Key words! by b4upoo · · Score: 1

    Rope, stalk, hunt, torture, hang, midnight, home addresses, BP, get, kill, destroy

                              BP, we want to share some things with you.

  83. Well, almost everything... by Chris+Burke · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Anyone who honestly thinks BP isn't doing E V E R Y T H I N G in its power to stem the flow is a fool.

    I believe that BP has every incentive to stop the leak.

    I also believe BP has every incentive to do so as cheaply as possible. For instance, they originally wanted to only drill one relief well until Congress insisted they start on another one. Why? Well because a relief well is not a guaranteed fixe. Sometimes the first one you drill doesn't do much, assuming you even succeed in hitting the foot-wide hole with the other foot-wide hole you're drilling at an angle through miles of rock.

    I am not about to second-guess the engineers who are busting their ass working on fixes. I fully realize that what they are trying to do is exceedingly difficult -- I mean, that's part of why it's such a big problem. However that also applies to the relief wells. With the problems that keep coming up in all the other attempted solutions, just assuming that a single relief well will work on the first try seems ludicrous. Could the extra cost possibly outweigh the impact if the relief well fails and oil spews until they can go through the whole process of drilling another? Could you, as an engineer, justify that lack of redundancy when solving a problem of this magnitude?

    But those decisions aren't made by engineers. Engineers quantify the risks as best they can, and executives make the decision off the summary middle management hands them. For them, maybe the cost vs risk works out? Maybe a mentality that you cut corners and do the minimum (or less) and just hope things work out is so entrenched that they would still try it even after things had already failed to work out?

    And not that I don't think their Top Kill attempt was anything but sincere, but that's exactly why it strikes me as odd that you'd mention that $700000/day figure for siphoning oil as some kind of incentive for plugging the well. When they really fix the well it won't be usable anymore. So no more oil. Which gives them the opposite incentive. Again, this is just the thought train your observation led me down.

    --

    The enemies of Democracy are
    1. Re:Well, almost everything... by maxume · · Score: 1

      They can back up and cement with the relief well, so they can try repeatedly through 1 hole. And they have magnetometers and practice since the Ixtoc days, so they can get a little closer (apparently, they used to drill the relief well 'close' and then start pumping cement in with the hope it would clog things up, nothing like the penetrate the bore and fill it with mud that they claim to be doing here).

      Also, if you take the net from the oil that they are capturing and subtract off their overall costs from that, I doubt you would accuse them of having the opposite incentive (rents on the 3 drilling rigs they have out there are probably pushing at least $1 million a day total (Deepwater Horizon was $500,000 all by itself), never mind all the other shit they have going on).

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    2. Re:Well, almost everything... by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      I'm very glad to hear they've improved the technique. The whole "never been done at this depth before" aspect means I'm still glad they were forced to start two. There's no reason not to except for economic. Specifically BP's economics.

      And yeah, I really don't think it's in their interest to prolong the leak even if they are collecting oil. Obviously if oil is leaking and can be collected, it's better to collect it, but it's hardly an economical way to harvest oil. That's why it seemed weird to point out how much money the oil they're collecting is worth in an argument about why they're doing all they can to stop it.

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      The enemies of Democracy are
  84. Coming soon... by mollog · · Score: 1

    Joe Wilson buys "You Lie!"

    Bill Clinton buys "I did not have sexual relations with that woman"

    Palin buys "Drill, baby, drill"

    Blagojevich buys "pay to play"

    Larry Craig buys "wide stance"

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    Best regards.
  85. Tony, dear Tony by theolein · · Score: 1

    You could just register like the rest of us, you know?

  86. BP owns Arco, AmPm, and Castrol by whistlingtony · · Score: 1

    Hi all,

    So, if you don't like BP, don't sit here griping at a screen. Vote with your dollar. It seems to have more effect than our political votes.

    Look up BP on wikipedia and don't shop at their subsidiaries.

    BP seems to own Arco, AmPm, and Castrol. Looks like Conoco and Amoco too. I suggest that the next time you pull in to get gas, or get an oil change, you take a look at who you're buying from. :D

    -Tony

    1. Re:BP owns Arco, AmPm, and Castrol by maxume · · Score: 1

      China will buy their oil.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
  87. one more by zogger · · Score: 1

    That's why we need corporate death penalties, combined with making their existing stock worthless. Yes, worthless, from something to zero market cap in one second.

    And I'll tell you why, and I have read it numerous times here right on this forum from "investors". Too many times have we read the mindset of stock holders, that the corporations only interest is and should be "making money". Nonsense, they should also be of the public interest and benefit, making money is not necessarily always in the public interest, as this latest massive ongoing oil spill proves. There's no amount of money in the world that can clean an ocean, it doesn't exist. Shortcuts taken, questionable practices, all in the name of "making money" in the fastest way possible. We the public who live in the environment are MORE interested in tactics that would make corporations "not do that" before they screw up, not really offer them some fine to pay for that which can't even be fixed. No, you can't "fix" an environmental screwup this big, not even your "100 billion" can fix it.

      The stockholders are supposed to be closely supervising their employees so stuff like this doesn't happen in the first place, and time and again, it is proven they are not, in fact I think it is safe to say that corporations and their practices are the *last* thing most stockholders are concerned with, as long as that monthly statement comes in and they see "positive results". This is what is wrong and broken and needs to change. Most stockholders spend more time watching TV or other pursuits than they do watching their corporate employees. And they won't until such a time as they all realize that THEY are responsible and can't just pass it off saying "well, we hire the board to do this for us". Nope, stockholders need to monitor their boards closer, and they haven't been, and neither have the government "regulators" who are just in and out again corporate shills.

      The only way to get stock holders attention in the market, and get real effective market and investment reforms and practices as a whole is for a few million of them to wake up one morning and find out they "invested" in short sighted greedy incompetent jerks, and that that was a bad idea. The corporate death penalty would do this. If they can use "three strikes" to throw an individual in jail for life, they can use "three strikes" against corporations, no matter how big they get. Three screwups, that's it, dissolved instantly, and at the first inkling of the third screwup, the stock is frozen, no more trading, and if they are found guilty of negligence or other crime, tough noogies, instant dissolution and the stock declared worthless.

        This will make stockholders pay closer attention, like maybe that "big game" or "american idol" or the "trip to the bar" might be postponed as they study the books closer if they want to "make money". And this would also make lower ranking employees more amenable to saying NO, I AM NOT GOING TO DO THAT to stupid orders from their "superiors" in the organization, like if they are ordered to "cut corners" or anything like that.

    1. Re:one more by Fnkmaster · · Score: 1

      Not sure if you are aware of this, but there already is something that works somewhat like what you describe - it's called bankruptcy. In a bankruptcy, the equity shares of a company are generally declared worthless. In some cases, strict priority is violated and a small amount goes to equity holders, but generally they get nothing to speak of.

      So if the government fines a company an amount greater than the equity value of the firm, it is highly unlikely that most companies will be able to take on that much incremental debt, and the company will be forced into a bankruptcy filing, the bondholders will be paid back and the excess liquidation value will go to pay the fines, and that's that.

      There are of course complicating factors and reasons this doesn't generally happen to large multinational firms (mostly that their large size makes them usually able to shrug off such fines, and that fines are usually proportional to the offense rather than the size of a company). But it's possible in theory.

      A complicating issue here is that BP isn't actually a US-based firm, nor is it natively listed on a US stock exchange. It trades through ADRs on NYSE - it is natively listed on the London Stock Exchange, I believe. So... if ADRs are subject to seizure but shares on foreign exchanges aren't, capital just flees to foreign exchanges and nobody wants to list on NYSE and NASDAQ anymore. That wouldn't be a good thing.

      Seizure of US-based assets of a firm is at least a more plausible method of punishment. I'm not sure what BP's domestic assets are worth in the US, but it seems like the damage to the company's market value is probably already on par with the value of its US assets. So if you seized them and sold them off to other oil firms as punishment for this, the likely result would just be the remaining foreign assets would be acquired or merged into another company, and those are probably worth something on the order of the $109B market cap left in BP right now, or at least aren't worth much less (that's just a guess based on what I've read about BP's operations).

      The net result of all that would be the equity shareholders would probably end up *better off* than they are right now in the event of an asset seizure, or at the least, they wouldn't be much worse off than they are now. Another way of putting it is that the stock market has basically discounted the value of the US assets of BP to nothing already, because if they were spun off, they'd most likely have to be bundled with the huge liability from this oil spill.

      Now, let me take issue with one point you made that's just wrong:

      The stockholders are supposed to be closely supervising their employees so stuff like this doesn't happen in the first place

      No. That's what a Board of Directors is supposed to do. These guys get paid hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in even a moderate sized company to represent the shareholders and supervise the executive team of a company. Joe Shmoe who invests his savings in a mutual fund or buys stock in a bunch of companies can't realistically be expected to know when malfeasance is going on in the corporate offices of a firm. But the Board can and should, at least up to a point.

      Sarbannes-Oxley put a lot on the shoulders of the CEO of a publicly traded company in terms of personally certifying accounting and reporting results. There's relatively little out there that holds Boards of Directors responsible for really managing and overseeing the executive team, so this has turned into a bullshit cushy position often held by people who really don't have the interest or knowledge to oversee the executive team of a company. I fully support making Boards of Directors as responsible for overseeing the CEO and executive team as the CEO is supposed to be for overseeing the rest of the firm.

  88. Fuck You G.I. Is now Fuck You BP by gamecrusader · · Score: 1

    just like one of the most famous phrases ever created (you may not be familiar with) Fuck You G.I. it now should be Fuck You BP

  89. buying the term "oil spill" by dogzdik · · Score: 0

    How about they invest in others like "Lying arseholes" and "Cover up's".

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    .

    Voting up, Voting down - If I really gave a fuck about your approval or not, I'd come and ask you.

  90. Make BP Pay! by rcharbon · · Score: 1

    Do the search, click on the link. Make BP pay for the ads.

  91. BP buying Google ads by urudot · · Score: 1

    BP buying Google ads shows that giants such as BP are beginning to understand how powerful the Internet has become for brand building.

    I feel that BP could be much more effective, though. If you search “oil spill” on Google you will see that BP gets only one ad spot on top of that page. They would be paying about £2.74 million per month if everybody looking for that search term would click on their ad.

    Google surely will donate the money made from the BP ad to help clean up the gulf region, won’t they ;-) and use it as a publicity stunt?

    BP could get better results at less cost by occupying more natural search listings for the term ‘oil spill’ and many related terms, quickly establishing themselves as an authority in the field. Over 80% of all information seekers don’t click on ads, they click on ‘natural | organic’ listings. Natural listings are ‘free’, if you don’t count your time AND preserve your brand value at the same time.

    There are several ways for BP to search engine optimise for the term ‘oil spill’ and related ones, namely article marketing and online press releases. The most obvious one is video marketing: Video marketing can gain top search engine rankings fast. Just see the two videos on Google’s ‘oil spill’ search results page.

    Video can also work very well for brand building and reaches an immense audience. After all YouTube has already become the 2nd largest search engine.

    Plus video allows you to market to the two second largest search engines at the same time!

    This at a fraction of a fraction of what BT is spending now since BP has most of the ‘marketing’ material anyway, whereas a Google ‘oil spill’ ad, they need to continue to buy to make an impact.

    Additionally social media would allow them to participate in ‘oil spill’ discussions in real time, thus reaching a much more targeted audience and being able to interact right then and there when opinions are formed – free.

    BP facing even more financial and brand damage won’t help anyone, so besides cleaning up the gulf region I hope they will use the Internet even more to rebuild. I guess the better position BP is in, the more it can and will do.

    kind regards,
    Karl zu Ortenburg

    http://internet-experts-live.co.uk/