A Windows Phone 7 For Every Microsoftie

theodp writes "So, how can Microsoft guarantee its Windows Phone 7 devices will enjoy broader adoption than the ill-fated Kin? By giving every Microsoft employee a free one, that's how. A Microsoft spokesman confirmed the move, explaining that the idea is to thank employees for all their work, and make sure that they have experience with Windows Phone 7 devices. Microsoft has nearly 90,000 employees worldwide."

Comments

But it's mnade out of PEOPLE !!

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't buy WP7. It's made out of PEOPLE !!

Re:But it's mnade out of PEOPLE !!

[tomhudson]

" Don't buy WP7. It's made out of PEOPLE !! "

I could be worse - it could be made out of KINs instead of next of kins.

Hot new item @ microsoft - cases that make your iPhone look like a WP7 phone - complete with BSOD screen-saver.

The Balminator: "Hey - is that an iPhone?

Employee: "I wish - blue-screened again!"

The Balminator: "Okay, I guess I can find someone else to throw this chair at."

Re:But it's mnade out of PEOPLE !!

[Philip K Dickhead]

Total Bullshit, Cynical Move by MS. Really worthy of some spleen and bile.

They stopped giving a damn about "their people" at least 5 years ago. For instance, last month, as the old fiscal year ended, they pulled all the soda cases from every office - replaced with vending machines. That's 1 year after they stopped all the regular food-service and snack items.

Any tech company in California or Western Europe has done the calculation. The expense on these things returns a fantastic benefit in the morale, productivity and retention of their best people. Cutting these "extravagances" ultimately costs them money. Microsoft are joined with Cisco, who practice similar false-economy, in a race to the bottom.

"Are You People Ready?"

They really should change that to:

"The Beatings Will Continue, Until Morale Improves. Oh, Here's Your Shitty Phone."

Re:But it's mnade out of PEOPLE !!

[Anonymous Coward]

Uhh... That's nonsense. MS may be a shitty company to the rest of the world, but to their employees, they're pretty damn good. Dunno where you got that vending machine claim, but I suggest you stick it back from whence it came.

Re:But it's mnade out of PEOPLE !!

[mark72005]

Based on my previous experience with Windows Mobile, it's probably made out of the shattered pieces of my soul and an ocean of my tears.

Re:But it's mnade out of PEOPLE !!

[cgenman]

The pessimist in me wonders if these are just for the dwindling permanent staff members, or if the permatemps are getting one too.

Re:But it's mnade out of PEOPLE !!

[Anonymous Coward]

last month, as the old fiscal year ended, they pulled all the soda cases from every office - replaced with vending machines

Care to point to which offices make up 'every office' or where you get your facts? I work on campus and have not seen such things, nor even heard rumors of it.

Re:But it's mnade out of PEOPLE !!

[TheVelvetFlamebait]

I love the way that a free phone is a "cynical move", while free food and drink "returns a fantastic benefit in the morale, productivity and retention of their best people, and how cutting these things is a "false economy". I particularly enjoyed the way you seem to know much more about what is good for the company than the trained accountants whose job it is to know these things better than anyone else. On the face of it, it would appear that the economy of free food and drink was a little more false than the alternative.

Re:But it's mnade out of PEOPLE !!

[Anonymous Coward]

What Microsoft office are you in?

I'm sitting here as a Microsoft FTE in Redmond drinking my free soft drink.

Re:But it's mnade out of PEOPLE !!

[Anonymous Coward]

I call bullshit on your call of total bullshit. I don't know where you got your info but the soda cases are still there. The purchasing was standardized so that the drinks would be the same in all MSFT offices which resulted in some options going away in some offices but were replaced with new options. MSFT also introduced some new nice automatic Starbucks coffee machines which is a huge step up from the crappy coffee we used to have.

Yes IWFM.

Re:But it's mnade out of PEOPLE !!

[tomhudson]

3 replies saying it ain't so - but all anonymous.

Hey everybody - Steve Ballmer is trolling slashdot!

The free phone thing is a bad idea for several reasons:

1. Why would someone want to replace something that they know works with a first-out-the-gate phone from Microsoft? Even Microsoft admits it takes AT LEAST 3 tries to get it right.
2. Why would someone want to pay the costs of canceling their contract, as well as losing the functionality of any apps they bought? It's called "vedor lock-in" - and it hurts now that the shoe is on the other foot, doesn't it?
3. Why would anyone want a Windows phone when Microsoft is exiting the mobile market in 2012, a year after Ballmer is kicked out?

Re:But it's mnade out of PEOPLE !!

[recoiledsnake]

What Microsoft office are you in?

I'm sitting here as a Microsoft FTE in Redmond drinking my free soft drink.

This is Slashdot and we don't let facts get in the way of M$ bashing karmawhoring.

Re:But it's mnade out of PEOPLE !!

[bsDaemon]

If Coke were to give their employees free Coke just to increase their own market share and make their product look like it was doing better, then that would also be a cynical move. Basically forcing 90,000 to have the phone, whether they use it or not, just to make it not look like as big a failure as the Kin, is what's cynical -- not giving free schwag to employees. But then, its perhaps not the move itself which is cynically motivated, but the summary. Not that such a thing would ever happen...

Re:But it's mnade out of PEOPLE !!

[CohibaVancouver]

Why would someone want to replace something that they know works with a first-out-the-gate phone from Microsoft?

1) Because if someone is using something like a Nokia 7020 it might be nice to get a smartphone. I didn't have a smartphone under my employer "gave" me one. (No, I don't work for MS)
2) How many lemmings queued up overnight to buy the first iPhone? People were willing to go first-gen (with their own nickel) go get a nifty smartphone. I'm sure many would be more than willing with someone else's nickel.

Why would someone want to pay the costs of canceling their contract

If the phone is supported on your network you're not penalized to change the handset. People do this all the time when they lose/smash their phones. They just get a new one from somewhere and light it up on their old account, with no penalty.

Re:But it's mnade out of PEOPLE !!

[Score Whore]

Didn't Google do this? Gave every employee a G1 with the suggestion that they might want to make apps for it? And called it a Christmas bonus as well?

Re:But it's mnade out of PEOPLE !!

[Runaway1956]

So, let me try to get this straight. Microsoft is a bad company, because they don't provide free carbonated beverages? Damn.

I suppose you have lots of facts and figures to cite, showing just how many companies in the world DO supply free soda pop for their employees?

I don't drink much soda. I much prefer my caffeine to be hot, black, and sweet. Maybe I should take my company to court for not providing the coffee that I drink all day? Worse - I had to buy my own coffee pot! Oh - wait. The company does allow me free water to make the coffee with. Maybe I should shut up, while I'm ahead. They COULD make me buy my own bottled water to make coffee!

Re:But it's mnade out of PEOPLE !!

[recoiledsnake]

3 replies saying it ain't so - but all anonymous.

And logged-in users speak the Gospel truth right? Anyways

Many people maintain two phones, one for business use and one for personal use. If they don't want to, then they can hand it to a family member or friend. Or maybe it'll lie in a desk drawer unused. I don't see a reason for all the vitriol directed at them for this.

Re:But it's mnade out of PEOPLE !!

[Runaway1956]

Would you like some cheese with that whine?

Always remember - you get what you pay for. You paid for marketing, bling, and glitz. That's what you got. If you wanted a telephone, you would have bought something without Microsoft on it.

Re:But it's mnade out of PEOPLE !!

[shutdown -p now]

Microsoft is always big on "dogfooding" of anything and everything - running beta versions of Windows and Office in day-to-day work is routine, for example (when 7 was in beta, I've probably seen as many screens with it around as I've seen Vista), and is supported by IT. I think this case is just the logical extension of that to hardware products. It's expensive, to be sure (though then again, given typical salaries in MSFT, probably not as much as it initially seems to be), but then this product is a very major milestone for the company, so such extra attention is well-deserved.

Another thing is that owning a phone entices one to write apps for that phone, and a large proportion of MS employees know how to code...

Re:But it's mnade out of PEOPLE !!

[recoiledsnake]

If Coke were to give their employees free Coke just to increase their own market share and make their product look like it was doing better, then that would also be a cynical move.

It's worse than that.

http://money.cnn.com/2003/06/13/news/funny/coke_pepsi/

Re:But it's mnade out of PEOPLE !!

[Anonymous Coward]

Free sodas (and a good selections too) at the various field offices I've visited this year. I don't get to HQ very often, but I've been to a number of local offices around the US, and was freely caffinated at all.

(No, I'm not SteveB)

Re:But it's mnade out of PEOPLE !!

[seibai]

Oi, feeding the troll and all that, but parent is a straight-up lie. Free soda, coffee, hot chocolate, and various other beverages still avaialble at every MS office I've ever been in (and my own as of yesterday).

Honestly, MS is a fair sight better to their employees than Google is (spoken from first-hand experience here).

Re:But it's mnade out of PEOPLE !!

[mark72005]

Of course. It was my fault because in those days I didn't know any better and I didn't do my homework.

In other words, I was like 99% of mobile consumers who today just want an iphone, or a droid.

I just wanted something I could check my corporate email and calendar on. I didn't see the bucket of water suspended above the other side of the door.

The average customer won't either, until they are locked in.

Re:But it's mnade out of PEOPLE !!

[drsquare]

They stopped giving a damn about "their people" at least 5 years ago. For instance, last month, as the old fiscal year ended, they pulled all the soda cases from every office - replaced with vending machines. That's 1 year after they stopped all the regular food-service and snack items.

Oh noes, not the free junk food! Out of all the things to whine about, is fizzy sugar water really too expensive for someone on an IT salary?

Re:But it's mnade out of PEOPLE !!

[tomhudson]

I don't see a reason for all the vitriol directed at them for this.

You must be new here ... :-)

Seriously, the reason is simple - we're all happy to see the bully get his ass kicked.

And then there are those creepy ads - not just the Gate+Seinfeld ones - the KIN stalker loser taking pics of his ex-girlfriend - which would get him arrested, charged, convicted, a criminal record, and a fine + community service if he were to pull that sort of stunt here.

And the products that are always late, buggy, clunky, and always a few steps behind the competition. Windows 7 is only now adding some of the features that KDE users have enjoyed for years - and it still has a long way to go. Must be nice living in that walled garden.

And the overblown hyping of non-features. Like the current page at Microsoft talking about how now, with Windows 7, you can use a touch device if you have one, in addition to a mouse and keyboard. What utter BS. Touch support is a hardware, not OS, feature - I was doing that back in 1993 witn WFW 3.1. "Oh, but we've added a new API and new hooks." Big deal - it's still dependent on the hardware manufacturers and their drivers - and they don't need Microsoft to add features like multi-touch.

I could go on, but what's the point? Microsoft has lost more than half it's value under Ballmer. There's no reason to expect that trend not to continue.

Q: "How do you create a $200 billion dollar company?"
A: "Take a $600 billion dollar company and put Steve Ballmer in charge."

Azure is Hazure compared to the competition. AdCenter is BadCenter - a money pit. Bing got no bling. PC gaming was thrown under the bus to support/divert customers to a money-losing XBox. WinMobile is more like WinCementShoes - to be phased out over the next 2 years as Microsoft retires from the mobile game completely. High Performance Computing is another perennial money-loser.

If it weren't for the vendor lock-in with Office, business wouldn't be buying either Office or Windows - and that's changing.

Microsoft will lose another 50% in market cap as people realize that they have 10 more years, and then it's game over, so the stock can only be based on revenue, not growth prospects, and that revenue not only will not keep pace with the competition, but will start declining on an absolute basis.

After all, business isn't going to upgrade Office if they can continue running XP - and now they can until 2020 by which time other alternatives will be firmly entrenched.

Re:But it's mnade out of PEOPLE !!

[Sivar]

That's funny, I was just in several of the buildings in Redmond last week and found that all drinks -- even those in the cafeteria, are gratis. Paying isn't even an option -- there's simply nowhere to put the change.

For any personal issues you may find with Microsoft as a company, I have seen and heard nothing but good things from their employees.

Re:But it's mnade out of PEOPLE !!

[Anonymous Coward]

i don't get it.

Re:But it's mnade out of PEOPLE !!

[hviniciusg]

I'm in 2007 my friend, do you have any harder shit? because this Office 2007 shit does not makes me high any more.

Re:But it's mnade out of PEOPLE !!

[R4nneko]

Not just the G1, they also did a similar thing with the Nexus One.

Re:But it's mnade out of PEOPLE !!

[Anonymous Coward]

Quit whining. We haven't had free soda at Apple in at least 10 years, and I've never been here where we had free junk food all the time. Though the building I'm now in does have soda in the vending machine for only $.25/can (the junk food vending machine is $.25/item too).. so if they actually had good types of soda, I'd use that instead of bringing it in.

Re:But it's mnade out of PEOPLE !!

[Philip K Dickhead]

That's the new campus - put to compete with Google for college hires. Get out to the other buildings - and the field offices in Bellvue and Silicon Valley.

Re:But it's mnade out of PEOPLE !!

[Philip K Dickhead]

These "trained accountants" sign off on MSFT spending 5-8 BILLION a year, since 2001, on research - with ZERO to show for it in ROI.

All Microsoft product advances have come out of imitation/derivation or acquisition for over 10 years. The business is still paid for by two profit centers in Windows desktop and Office. Server just carries its own weight.

Re:But it's mnade out of PEOPLE !!

[Philip K Dickhead]

Where's the TalkingRain gone to?

7 kinds of Corn Syrup or Aspartame.

Re:But it's mnade out of PEOPLE !!

[TheVelvetFlamebait]

Right. And think about how much worse things would be under someone untrained and without access to all the relevant information!

Re:But it's mnade out of PEOPLE !!

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe if you could spell Bellevue correctly someone might care what you had to say. In reality, they all have free pop, including the offices in Bellevue and Silicon Valley. The bellevue ones are nice since there's a movie theater in the area. I often grab a free pop from there before going to movies. (Yes, I work for MS)

Re:But it's mnade out of PEOPLE !!

[Anonymous Coward]

s/bellevue/Bellevue/

:: runs around limp-wristedly ::

"Maybe if you could capitalize Bellevue correctly someone might care what you had to say"

:: minces like a faggot ::

Re:But it's mnade out of PEOPLE !!

[Phoghat]

BUT, my niece`is married to a man who works for MS on "campus". I asked him if he could get me a discount on a Zune and was told that he doesn't get any kind of a discount on any Microsoft products any more. The company has been cutting back on any benefits like that for the last 5 years

Re:But it's mnade out of PEOPLE !!

[Anonymous Coward]

Why am I not surprised that change has no role at Microsoft?

It'll be interesting...

[Anonymous Coward]

The number of iPhones at MS is crazy; probably around 20% of the people have them. (There are phone stores on campus; they aren't allowed to sell Androids or iPhones).

I suspect if you whip an iPhone out in front of Ballmer after, say, November or so, that he'll be a little more than a little upset at you.

This is a good move to get people to dogfood and internally develop for the thing. (And I was going to ditch my iPhone anway).

Re:It'll be interesting...

[Aladrin]

I'll agree that 'eating your own dogfood' is good for the phone's development team, but do you really think everyone else has any real input into it? Real customers don't even get real input unless there's an antenna-gate or something.

I've been wondering for a while why companies seem to be so inept at listening to their customers. I understand the concept of 'vocal minority' and all that, but certain things should just be obvious when someone complains about them. Like lack of 'cut and paste' functionality on a 'smart phone'. I'm sure someone at Apple said 'What about cut and paste?' and someone shrugged it off. I'll even admit that I don't see why it was a big deal. But it -was-. And even after thousands of people started mocking the iPhone for not having it, Apple continued to ignore the complaints. That's the part I find so hard to believe.

Re:It'll be interesting...

[bashibazouk]

I wonder how long before someone designs an iphone case that makes it look just like a common Windows phone 7 model?

Re:It'll be interesting...

[tomhudson]

I wonder how long before someone designs an iphone case that makes it look just like a common Windows phone 7 model?

"Common"? Never gonna happen. They were practically giving KINs away at the end, and still nobody wanted them.

WP7 is Ballmer's last swing at bat. Within the year, he;s thrown his last chair.

Re:It'll be interesting...

[vijayiyer]

It's because every bit of development takes resources, and it's well established that you can't just add more developers to get things done faster. I'm sure copy and paste wasn't a novel feature that the development team somehow forgot. More likely it just didn't make the cut for release.
I think it's very fundamental to why Microsoft hasn't been able to release compelling products - they worry about what every customer asks for and in the process deliver what no customer wants. It's _hard_ to avoid the kitchen sink mentality.

Re:It'll be interesting...

[Anonymous Coward]

From this data it surely looks like a larger than average percentage of gay people works for Microsoft.

Re:It'll be interesting...

[Archangel Michael]

There are two kinds of product managers out there.

The first one is the Rah-rah sales person who only wants to see "good" news about product. They tend to ignore problems (minimize), while extolling worthless features (maximize). They don't want to hear what is wrong, they want it buried.

The second product manager is often indistinguishable from the first at first glance. However, they are always looking at what is "wrong" with a product to make it better. They may want to hide problems, but only until they have them solved.

When you see a problem or when you get a report, if you bury it, you're an idiot. it is far to hard to keep things hidden today. A vocal dissatisfied customer means you've got several others out there that aren't being vocal. Address the problem.

I've said it before, if I was a product manager, I'd want to hear about problems because I view things like that as opportunities in disguise. Resolving problems is hard, but fixing problems has its own rewards.

Re:It'll be interesting...

[Anonymous Coward]

apple.com/feedback

Also, they put a lot more effort into it than some engineer coming into work and being like "hmm,
Copy and paste? Boring!"

From my experience dealing with iPhone users as part of my job, most of them don't know how to use copy and paste, or care. Yeah, super important feature. For nerds, maybe.

Re:It'll be interesting...

[Whalou]

More likely it just didn't make the cut for release.

It got cut but not pasted.

Re:It'll be interesting...

[Infonaut]

And even after thousands of people started mocking the iPhone for not having it, Apple continued to ignore the complaints. That's the part I find so hard to believe.

Apple has a better grip on consumer psychology than most companies. Promise and don't deliver, and you get lambasted. Far better to quietly work on improving the product without responding to every request from customers. Apple's sales figures show that the initial lack of copy and paste was not a game-ending omission on their part.

Re:It'll be interesting...

[shrimppesto]

And even after thousands of people started mocking the iPhone for not having [cut and paste], Apple continued to ignore the complaints.

Apple continued to ignore the complaints ... by implementing it?
*confused*

Re:It'll be interesting...

[Dexy]

I see wut you did thar.

Re:It'll be interesting...

[Aladrin]

Don't confuse the present with the past. They have finally implemented it. It was at least 2 years after the first complaints, which means that a new version of the device was released while they continued to ignore it.

Re:It'll be interesting...

[Mr_Silver]

I'll agree that 'eating your own dogfood' is good for the phone's development team, but do you really think everyone else has any real input into it? Real customers don't even get real input unless there's an antenna-gate or something.

To be honest, it depends on the company and how good the Product Manager is.

I've Product Managed a number of mobile phones in my time and we handed out large number of testing samples to anyone in the company who was prepared to swap their existing device (for a period of time). We then took every single persons feedback, went through it line by line and determined what to do with each one. That was a hell of a lot of work.

Some of the responses were clearly dumb ("This phone does not lock like a Nokia", well duh, it's not a Nokia), some were completely impossible to implement due to technical reasons or timescales but others were really insightful and accurately reflected the way people use their phone.

In addition, I used to seek information from key bloggers and maintainers and members of major websites dedicated to mobile phones.

To be fair, this was over 5 years ago and the mobile space has changed quite a bit since then.

I've been wondering for a while why companies seem to be so inept at listening to their customers. I understand the concept of 'vocal minority' and all that, but certain things should just be obvious when someone complains about them. Like lack of 'cut and paste' functionality on a 'smart phone'.

Agreed. I see no reason why a company cannot put out a public bug tracker and feature suggestion website that allows people to register, post things up and vote on them. Google has something like that now although I have no idea how much they actually look at it.

Re:It'll be interesting...

[Anonymous Coward]

"I've said it before, if I was a product manager, I'd want to hear about problems because I view things like that as opportunities in disguise. Resolving problems is hard, but fixing problems has its own rewards."

And your hands would be tied because you were given a budget. And that budget does not include the expense of improving the product until the next generation and barely any for fixing emergent problems.

Re:It'll be interesting...

[Anonymous Coward]

Office is dogfed by a large portion of the company and the Office teams get quite a bit of good out of it.

They should expand the program

[drinkypoo]

I'll use a Windows Mobile phone, too... if it's free. Sure as hell never paying for another device running WinCE, the most pointless operating system ever.

Re:They should expand the program

[tokul]

I'll use a Windows Mobile phone, too... if it's free.

The first one is always free.

Re:They should expand the program

[pckl300]

I remember wanting to get a Windows CE phone when James Bond had one. That feeling ended rather quickly

Re:They should expand the program

[PolygamousRanchKid]

I'll use a Windows Mobile phone, too... if it's free.

Yeah, the phone is free, but the replacement printer cartridges are really expensive. That's where they are going to get their employees.

I think . . . or something like that . . .

Re:They should expand the program

[kervin]

I'll use a Windows Mobile phone, too... if it's free. Sure as hell never paying for another device running WinCE, the most pointless operating system ever.

Wow, this is the entire content of a +5 Insightful post.

Could you at least give us a single piece of technical evidence to back that up? However anecdotal?

Re:They should expand the program

[eyrieowl]

Insightful, not informative. ;)

Re:They should expand the program

[CAIMLAS]

When was the last time you touched WinCE? 1.0?

A hell of a lot has changed since then. Sure, it wasn't as awesome as Palm or Qtopia back then, but that was a decade ago.

There are a lot of truly useful apps on WinMo which are not available on the App Store. The phones work better (longer battery life, typically better signal, better hands free, etc.) and typically, they're able to interface with your desktop tasks better (file/media sharing/copying, tethering, mail, browsing, GPS). With the HTC frontend (can't recall what it's called - SenseUI?) you can't readily even tell it's a WinCE derived device.

And no, I don't own a modern WinCE (6.x) device, but I have handled a couple which are superior examples. Not only are the 6.5 phones difficult to find, but I don't have GSM coverage here. Microsoft is largely to blame for the lack of availability.

Re:They should expand the program

[Anonymous Coward]

There are a lot of truly useful apps on WinMo which are not available on the App Store.

Is that so? Name three. I don't think you can.

Re:They should expand the program

[ericspinder]

Well, it's only 'insightful' in the meaning of 'I was thinking the same thing', which kinda works, but only in the absence of a proper choice.

Re:They should expand the program

[Shompol]

I actually have a WinMo 6 phone lying around. It is free, kind of. After being on Android for a few months, I will never use WinMo again, even if they pay me -- its user interface is that ugly.

Re:They should expand the program

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll use a Windows Mobile phone, too... if it's free. Sure as hell never paying for another device running WinCE, the most pointless operating system ever.

Wow, this is the entire content of a +5 Insightful post.

Could you at least give us a single piece of technical evidence to back that up? However anecdotal?

Have you ever used a Windows Mobile based phone?

Slow. Crashes frequently sending text messages, browsing the web, opening the calendar, starting the phone...

Re:They should expand the program

[larry bagina]

slashdot really needs a "me to1!!!" moderation option.

Re:They should expand the program

[MozeeToby]

That only applies if your product is so enjoyable (or addictive) that you'll make it up in future sales. I don't know, this could easily back fire on them. Having a semi-cohesive population of 90000 people all using the same product (a significant portion of which is forced or at least pressured to do so) is going to bring any problems straight to the front very quickly. Now, if they all report them to the dev team and start working on apps that's a win, but if they go to the press (probably throwing away their job but you know that someone will do it) it could get ugly.

Re:They should expand the program

[Chapter80]

I always thought "wince" was the worst product name since "Nova" was being sold to Spanish speaking countries (the car that "will not" go?).

But Windows Mobile Phone 7 (WiMP 7?) can join the pack.

Re:They should expand the program

[shutdown -p now]

That's pretty much the only way Insightful mod is actually ever used, which is why I hate it with a passion. It could just as well be renamed to "Agree +1".

Re:They should expand the program

[TomXP411]

Are you kidding?

Windows CE is still possibly the most powerful mobile OS, and it's the easiest to develop for, since you can use the same tools you do for Windows development. It's still being used in Enterprise mobile devices because it has some great Enterprise features that still aren't in Android or iOS.

I'm only disappointed that Microsoft dropped the ball and let Android and iOS eclipse it. Don't get me wrong: I love my Android phones; I have three of them, but I will always have a soft spot for Windows CE.

You can call Windows CE and its derivatives ugly, buggy, slow, and even hard to use. But you cannot in fairness call it useless.

Now Windows Phone 7? I think that's a mistake.

Re:They should expand the program

[Atzanteol]

Enterprise!

Re:They should expand the program

[drinkypoo]

Windows CE is still possibly the most powerful mobile OS,

Android 2.2 makes it look like the slow kid.

and it's the easiest to develop for, since you can use the same tools you do for Windows development.

That only makes it easiest for people who are already familiar with those tools. If you're familiar with Java then perhaps you'll prefer Android.

It's still being used in Enterprise mobile devices because it has some great Enterprise features that still aren't in Android or iOS.

So you mean it has the most integration with Microsoft applications? That's not the same thing as having more features, unless it actually has more features. My understanding is that Android has options to connect to things that existing Windows Mobile or WMP7 doesn't as well.

You can call Windows CE and its derivatives ugly, buggy, slow, and even hard to use. But you cannot in fairness call it useless.

There is really no reason for it to exist. A stripped-down version of NT can be used, as seen in the Xbox 360. The interface would be different, scaled to the level of the underlying hardware as it is today, through the development of custom interfaces. Perhaps this is the plan for their next generation phone OS, whenever that should show up. Since Microsoft's plan is often to copy Apple poorly, and Apple is using modified OSX on the iPhone &c, perhaps Microsoft will follow suit.

Now Windows Phone 7? I think that's a mistake.

At least we're in agreement somewhere.

Re:They should expand the program

[TomXP411]

That only makes it easiest for people who are already familiar with those tools. If you're familiar with Java then perhaps you'll prefer Android

I'm sorry, but the Eclipse GUI development environment (I don't mean Eclipse's GUI, but the environment for building GUI's) can't hold a candle to Visual Studio for ease of use.

Re:They should expand the program

[Anonymous Coward]

Not the OP.. but Evidence? Have you actually tried to use WinCE? It's like asking evidence for water being wet.

As for an anecdote... do you remember how many versions FORCED you to go through that damn copy/paste tutorial on device reset. That bit of absurdity sums up my Windows CE experience in a nutshell. Unneccessarily annoying for no good reason. Task manager - nope. Need 3rd party app to actually close a running program - yep.

Re:They should expand the program

[m50d]

How so? It's a multitasking OS that I can develop software for, for free, and distribute on the internet without needing to pay anyone anything - just download the .cab and run it. It can play every video I've come across, it'll run a decent IRC client, and there are emulators for game systems I've never even heard of. And it was doing all this in '03. What've you got as an alternative in that space?

Re:They should expand the program

[ericspinder]

Wow, this is the entire content of a +5 Insightful post.
Could you at least give us a single piece of technical evidence to back that up? However anecdotal?

The question is "Do you feel vindicated or victimized by the +5Insightful rating for your post?". As you must realize that your completely common place observation has been 'agreed to' as being 'Insightful'. Congratulations man, you're part of the 'problem' :)

Re:They should expand the program

[CAIMLAS]

Office? Chromium? Exchange connectivity/Outlook? Arkon Map?

Did I mention I've only barely touched a WinMo phone and I realize these apps are available, yet not on the iPhone?

Nevermind the agitating inherent limitations of the iPhone.

Re:They should expand the program

[blai]

WinCE is awesome. But if we are talking about WinMo (the user layer) instead, it doesn't really know what "closing a program" means.

Who pays for the

[AHuxley]

calls to the south pole?
http://games.slashdot.org/story/10/06/01/0145232/Mobile-Game-Trojan-Calls-the-South-Pole?from=rss
Would the undocumented feature payment from MS go to the phone company?

Gir's Analysis: Doom, Doom, Doom

[eldavojohn]

It's absolutely mind-boggling that Windows Phone 7 is missing some very fundamental features, like copy/paste, third-party multitasking, and universal search.

Absolutely mind-boggling you say? How about absolutely doomed?

In the past, competitors like Apple were lambasted by the public for not having such features, so you'd think Microsoft would take precautions not to repeat such mistakes.

You don't understand, Microsoft is adept at watching Apple do something right or make progress and then totally just think that they're different and special and therefore won't suffer from those problems.

What's worse, the rest of the smartphone world isn't slowing down, and with Windows Phone 7 not scheduled to launch till the holidays, the divide could get deeper.

It's called releasing a phone that's already behind the curve. So, unless you have a product name that causes people to hemorrhage cash regardless of the features, you're doomed. Like the release of the Zune. Except it appears Windows Phone 7 doesn't even have an exclusive 'squirt' functionality.

Criticisms aside, there's a lot we like about Windows Phone 7. The Zune integration is killer, and the core apps are much improved.

Zune integration is 'killer' you say? That's going to do it, huh? Well, everybody who owns a Zune now has the option to integrate it. All five of them. And the core apps are much improved? After suffering from the ailments of IE6 you think I want any version of Internet Exploder on my goddamn mobile device? You're insane. I don't care how refined it is.

We also commend Microsoft for being able to acknowledge that its old OS wasn't working and taking a chance on rebuilding something from the ground up.

Really? You're telling me that Microsoft owned up to and acknowledge its old OS wasn't working? I've never known Microsoft to tell their customers that something is wrong.

Long story short this product is doomed with a 97% confidence of certain doomage.

Re:Gir's Analysis: Doom, Doom, Doom

[alphax45]

Wish I had mod points as I agree 100% with everything you said here.

Re:Gir's Analysis: Doom, Doom, Doom

[mdwh2]

Absolutely mind-boggling you say? How about absolutely doomed?

Indeed. Whilst people may have criticised the Apple Iphones for lacking these features (rightly so - just as we criticise any product lacking features, especially that other far cheaper bog standard products have had for years), there has also been plenty of defence of "But no one cares about these features" (or even, spinning it as a "good thing because it saves battery life" - event though the Iphones seem to guzzle battery life faster than other phones like Nokias), and in particular, the media seem to hype the Iphones at every opportunity, despite these lacking features.

Whether it matters from a consumer point of view, who knows - lacking these features may work for Apple, but then that's only if MS are also happy with a few per cent market share. But I find it interesting if the media are now going to criticise Microsoft because their phone lacks these features, when the Iphones got praised for it.

It's called releasing a phone that's already behind the curve.

It certainly works fine for Apple. As long as a company makes profit, why should it matter - that's what people say for Apple. If Apple can spend years adding features like 3G, copy/paste, multitasking etc, why the hurry for Microsoft?

Long story short this product is doomed with a 97% confidence of certain doomage.

Well, if they get 100-97=3% of the market, they're as "doomed" as Apple :)

Re:Gir's Analysis: Doom, Doom, Doom

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't care how refined it is.

In other words: I don't care how much MS does to step up their technology. I hate them and anything they do will not be good enough for me. I'm a raving fanboi with a chip on my shoulder and if you want an honest opinion of a product from a company that I hate you're not going to find it here.

I really wish they had an ignore button around here.

Re:Gir's Analysis: Doom, Doom, Doom

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft is adept at watching Apple do something right or make progress and then totally just think that they're different and special and therefore won't suffer from those problems.

More like they realize expectations are so much lower for them than for Apple that they just don't have to care about such problems.

Re:Gir's Analysis: Doom, Doom, Doom

[sammy baby]

But I find it interesting if the media are now going to criticise Microsoft because their phone lacks these features, when the Iphones got praised for it.

Okay, wait a minute. The iPhone didn't get praised for lacking copy/paste, it got panned for it. There were apps springing up on Cydia to hack the support into it. Blackberry users were calling the phone a bad joke. Apple did what it always does, which was to insist that it wasn't a big deal, right up until they released an OS for the phone that supported native copy/paste, and most people conceded that the debate was over.

The thing is, that OS update was over a year ago now, and the debate has now been over for a year.

Microsoft just doesn't have the kind of market goodwill that Apple does. If it releases a phone that is lacking that basic functionality, people will want to know what the hell MS has been doing all this time.

Re:Gir's Analysis: Doom, Doom, Doom

[Mr_Silver]

It's absolutely mind-boggling that Windows Phone 7 is missing some very fundamental features, like copy/paste, third-party multitasking, and universal search.

Absolutely mind-boggling you say? How about absolutely doomed?

Whilst I agree with everything you say, for some bizzare reason lack of cut and paste doesn't seem to be as much of a deal breaker as we make out. It's implementation within the HTC Desire is a complete and utter disaster (tapping and holding can do at least 3 different possible things) and there is no cut and paste within the dedicated Gmail application and SMS.

For hilarity, text "the number is 07921 123456 bye" to someone with an HTC Desire and challenge them to call the number without resorting to memorising it or writing it down somewhere. Excluding the fact that you cannot copy the number, even if you could there is no way to paste it into the dialer.

Now I, like you, think this is an absolute deal-breaker and a shocking oversight (especially considering everyone else has managed cut and paste for years - even Apple has in the last two) yet the device still got rave reviews despite these fundamental flaws.

Re:Gir's Analysis: Doom, Doom, Doom

[LordLimecat]

I've never known Microsoft to tell their customers that something is wrong.

In their defense, I think they actually did once. After years of denying that anything was wrong with Vista, they basically came out with 7 and said, "Ok, we know we screwed up before. Truth time: Our new OS is better, we promise."

Its not much, but they DID admit that vista sucked.

Re:Gir's Analysis: Doom, Doom, Doom

[qortra]

Zune integration is 'killer' you say? That's going to do it, huh? Well, everybody who owns a Zune now has the option to integrate it. All five of them.

Hah, that reminds me of a quote from Chuck:

Chuck: "Morgan, hey, uh, buddy do we carry any Rush CDs in the store?"
Morgan: "No need, I got 'em all on my Zune"
Chuck: "You have a Zune?"
Morgan: "Are you kidding me? No, no, I'll grab my iPod"

Re:Gir's Analysis: Doom, Doom, Doom

[Eponymous Coward]

I have a hard time understanding why they are using the Windows brand for their phone OS. Does it share anything with their desktop OS? At this point (especially on a phone), the Windows brand has negative value. At least they didn't tack on a .net or live.

Re:Gir's Analysis: Doom, Doom, Doom

[JanneM]

"Long story short this product is doomed with a 97% confidence of certain doomage."

Well, perhaps avoid doom if it gets rooted, then people can load Android on it. Make it a good phone.

Re:Gir's Analysis: Doom, Doom, Doom

[qazwart]

There is a concept in the marketing industry called "The Delta". The Delta is the thing your product has that not only distinguishes it from other products, but will get consumers to choose your product over the others -- despite other possible short comings.

The original iPhone came out without copy/paste, but it still offered some unique features that allowed people to "forgive" Apple on that aspect. The web browser, the interface, the coolness factor, etc. Apple claimed they didn't include copy/paste because they were trying to work out the way to have copy/paste on a touch interface without any menuing system. When the iPhone finally came out with copy/paste, most people praised it as simple, intuitive, and easy to use.

One problem with Windows 7 Phone is that the copy/paste issue has been solved. We know how to have a nice copy/paste interface. The other issue is that the Windows 7 Phone isn't unique. What's the "Delta" over the iPhone and Android phones? This isn't saying that Windows 7 Phone isn't competitive, but that whatever advantages it has must make people decide to buy the device over the iPhone which does come with copy/paste, 100K+ apps, a wide consumer environment, and its coolness factor.

If the Windows 7 Phone came out two years ago, it would be extremely competitive and people would be rushing out to buy it. As it stands now, it is just another app phone missing features that other app phones already have.

Re:Gir's Analysis: Doom, Doom, Doom

[stewbacca]

You keep going on about Apple and features. I was involved with developing user training for the first gen iPhone and I can tell you, what features YOU want didn't make version one based on very careful market research and engineering tradeoffs.

It's not like Apple said, "nobody wants remote wipe so we aren't going to do it". Instead, they said, "we have X amount of schedule and Y amount of budget, so we have to decide what is more important to our target audience: a great iPod interface, or some dorky enterprise tools." And it's not like they just accidentally forgot to include copy/paste in the OS either--they practically invented copy/paste (they were the first to map them to their current keyboard shortcuts of command C and V, respectively).

In short, if you needed a business phone with enterprise features, you most likely already had a blackberry. If you wanted a consumer device that would suffice as a business phone (with limitations), then you might have bought an iPhone.

Re:Gir's Analysis: Doom, Doom, Doom

[qortra]

Does it share anything with their desktop OS?

The Silverlight and .NET frameworks, for starters. Even if it didn't share anything with the desktop OS, there is likely still value in making people think it does.

At this point (especially on a phone), the Windows brand has negative value.

Certainly, the 'Windows Mobile' moniker on a phone is kind of like the 'Titanic' moniker for a boat or the 'Hindenburg' moniker for a dirigible. That being said, I don't think the 'Windows' brand as a whole has "negative value". It is the most widely deployed desktop OS in the world. As I said above, there is some utility in making people believe that it shares traits in common with the desktop OS. This might lead people to assume that, for instance, there will be strong integration with the Desktop (something most smartphone users appreciate). It might also lead people to assume that, as smartphones go, the device will have a shallower learning curve for those familiar with the Windows series of desktop OSes. As far as I can tell, this is false; but since when do marketing departments care about truth?

Re:Gir's Analysis: Doom, Doom, Doom

[Xarius]

And does it even have "windows" at all?

Re:Gir's Analysis: Doom, Doom, Doom

[hey]

This is Slashdot, we know that "delta" means difference... from Calculus. Just like marketing to take a clearly defined term and turn it into something vague. "What's your delta?".

Re:Gir's Analysis: Doom, Doom, Doom

[Anonymous Coward]

At least there will be somewhere close to 90,000 of them available used soon to drive down prices, while Microsoft's employees continue to walk around with Androids and iPhones!

Re:Gir's Analysis: Doom, Doom, Doom

[Aqualung812]

As an Xbox 360 owner (but not a Zune owner), "The Delta" for me is Xbox LIVE integration. I don't know if it will be enough to replace my iPhone, but from what I can see, it would be the only reason I'd consider it. That said, while I might forgive copy & paste to get to Xbox LIVE, I won't give up multitasking for it.

Re:Gir's Analysis: Doom, Doom, Doom

[theun4gven]

It certainly works fine for Apple. As long as a company makes profit, why should it matter - that's what people say for Apple. If Apple can spend years adding features like 3G, copy/paste, multitasking etc, why the hurry for Microsoft?

So a new car company shouldn't have to worry about including things like air conditioning, radio, anti-lock brakes, etc. because older car companies spent years adding features such as those?

But I find it interesting if the media are now going to criticise Microsoft because their phone lacks these features, when the Iphones got praised for it.

The media are going to criticize Microsoft for lacking these features because they also criticized Apple and because they are now common and expected features on a smartphone. Mentioning that some people defended Apple's choice to initially leave out these features does not mean they weren't criticized by the media. This isn't interesting, it's expected.

Re:Gir's Analysis: Doom, Doom, Doom

[nschubach]

I still assume a mass of settled dirt or triangle when I hear delta.

Re:Gir's Analysis: Doom, Doom, Doom

[Archangel Michael]

Well see, that's a problem for me.

My three year old Blackberry sees a phone number, in just about every app, and if you highlight it (single click), it pulls up a menu asking what you want to do with it, including DIALING it (SMS, Add to phonebook, copy, etc).

Email addresses, web addresses and whatnot all have similar options. Anything less in my next phone will be a deal breaker.

Re:Gir's Analysis: Doom, Doom, Doom

[cgenman]

Windows may have negative value to people here on Slashdot. But if you're an executive for whom computers isn't your core business, Windows = business and Apple = schoolkids. Windows implies solid integration with Outlook, your windows shared files, doc files, etc. When you try to open that 30MB excel spreadsheet containing 5,000 separate sheets and every aspect of your business, it will open fine. (I've seen people with these. I accidentally erased one once.). Meeting invites will get through just fine, unlike that hippie kid in marketing with the Macintosh. And since you already know Windows thanks to that training seminar you went to, you should be fine with this.

Really, the competitor for a "Windows" based smartphone is the Blackberry, not the iPhone. And while RIM has been doing an all around good job, if you've been using a blackberry for years there are enough quirks that you'd probably want to switch to something easier to use and better.

Re:Gir's Analysis: Doom, Doom, Doom

[flyboy974]

This is absolutely the correct answer. I run a large development organization and we constantly have to go back and forth with our business team to talk about the cost of a feature.

Features, although great, cost you time and money (It's time and labor or T&L in my world). T&L represents development, QA, documentation, training, support, and long term maintenance from those teams as well.

Once you have a feature, you expect to have it forever. From Waynes World, Garth said it right. "We fear change. Change is Evil!". We can give you a different way to do it, or take away a feature. But who wants that?

BTW, the original comments ability to get some Invader Zim into a topic. Classic. Love JTHM.

Re:Gir's Analysis: Doom, Doom, Doom

[gbjbaanb]

Really? You're telling me that Microsoft owned up to and acknowledge its old OS wasn't working?

Yep. happens all the time. Usually immediately after they've got something new for you to buy that replaces it.

Re:Gir's Analysis: Doom, Doom, Doom

[Anonymous Coward]

The copy paste issue solved? For me, it made double-tap to zoom nearly unusable on the iPhone.

Re:Gir's Analysis: Doom, Doom, Doom

[Anonymous Coward]

Mod that +1 Stoned, for being entirely quoted.

Re:Gir's Analysis: Doom, Doom, Doom

[Anonymous Coward]

"What's your delta?"

Calculus, apparently.

Re:Gir's Analysis: Doom, Doom, Doom

[Mr_Silver]

Well see, that's a problem for me.

Don't get me wrong, I totally agree with you.

What I find so bizarre is that despite these glaring flaws and omissions, websites that review the products don't call it out on that failing and still give it a glowing (often maxium 5* or equivalent) review.

The first three sites from this list are classic examples.

Re:Gir's Analysis: Doom, Doom, Doom

[NightLamp]

WinPhone 7's killer app: makes AND holds actual phone calls.

On a serious note I think the combination of 3rd party hardware with minimum specs and an itunes-like sandboxed app store could be a real challenger. Let's not underestimate the traction of Office either - the '97 bailout of Apple by Microsoft wasn't just about the $150 million after all. Office Mac truly gave Apple room to breathe and it continues to do so.

Re:Gir's Analysis: Doom, Doom, Doom

[MachineShedFred]

Microsoft always admits that their products are flawed, after they release new versions. It's one of the ways they get people to get the next version.

Every version of Windows since 1995 have had what I call "purchase reassurance messages" during the install where they say "This is the best version of Windows yet!"; which is actually a backhanded way of saying "We know the previous version had many flaws and sucked out loud, but this one doesn't as much!"

Windows 95 is great! It will change everything! >>> Windows 95 is terrible! Windows 98 fixes all the problems! >>> Windows 98 has deep and serious flaws. Windows ME fixes that for the home user, and Windows 2000 is the ultimate answer for business! >>> Windows ME is shit! Windows XP will save the world! >>> Windows XP is old and outdated - just look at the UI. Windows Vista is the new way to do everything faster, and more reliably! >>> We realize that Windows Vista wasn't the best we could do, but Windows 7 is!

They've been doing this for decades, and people just keep buying in.

Re:Gir's Analysis: Doom, Doom, Doom

[Rayonic]

Zune integration is 'killer' you say? That's going to do it, huh? Well, everybody who owns a Zune now has the option to integrate it. All five of them..

I presume he's talking about the Zune Pass music service, which got good reviews but is pretty much doomed due to poor marketing.

Re:Gir's Analysis: Doom, Doom, Doom

[Anpheus]

My Android phone (Droid X) sees "the number is 07921 123456 bye" as containing a number. The number is underlined, and if I press it it opens up the dialer. I'm using Google Voice for SMS though so I don't know if that would affect it. I can also press and hold to copy the entire message text, which I can then paste into the text field and edit, and then re-copy if I want just the number. Finally, I tested pasting into the dialer's entry field, and pasted in just fine as "07921 123456".

Re:Gir's Analysis: Doom, Doom, Doom

[selven]

Maybe the Windows brand has negative value to you, but unfortunately most people aren't computer experts and will go for Windows because that's all they know.

Re:Gir's Analysis: Doom, Doom, Doom

[unix1]

Well see, that's a problem for me.

Problem if you start trusting some random comments and bashing.

My three year old Blackberry sees a phone number, in just about every app, and if you highlight it (single click), it pulls up a menu asking what you want to do with it, including DIALING it (SMS, Add to phonebook, copy, etc).

Works the same on pretty much every version of Android. I'm not sure if the GP was referring to that specific number or its format, or that specific phone model's default messaging app + number combination - I don't know. I can easily dial any number from the default text messaging app, or pretty much any app with similar text fields/components. Besides, there are other choices for messaging apps you can install with more options, if you like others better.

Email addresses, web addresses and whatnot all have similar options.

Add physical addresses (for maps/directions/navigation) and bunch of other things to that too.

Re:Gir's Analysis: Doom, Doom, Doom

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't understand, Microsoft is adept at watching Apple do something right or make progress and then totally just think that they're different and special and therefore won't suffer from those problems.

I never understood why this is a 'bad' thing? If you see someone doing something that is making them money. Should you do something TOTALLY different? No you will mimic them and try to make money too.

That every product out there has to be absolutely unique is crazy. I like 'similar' things. Then I can contrast what is good and bad on different platforms.

WinCE failed because of the very reason iPhone became a huge success, applications. It was a pain to get any app onto a wince device (ANY wince device). iPhone has the store you download and you are ready to rock. Developing for the iPhone is fairly straight forward, while on wince it is mishmash of 6 different cpu types and 8 screen factors. Then hope for the best that the dlls you are linking against will exist on your target platform. WinCE was a myriad of dll/cpu hell. It became little better than a glorified personal organizer. MS will need to get past the 15 years of failed wince stigma to become a success with *ANYTHING* phone related.

Re:Gir's Analysis: Doom, Doom, Doom

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows 95 - suckfest. Windows 98, better, and lasted until 2000 when Windows 2000 came out to replace the suckfest that was NT4 on a desktop (It was OK on a server) then XP polished Win2K enough that it lasted 8 years as MS's best desktop OS (For me, it was still a suckfest - I moved on to Linux and OS X in 2008). Windows Vista was complete bloatware that made perfectly good machines (running XP of course) run like crap. Nothing wrong with the OS says MS, but then a couple of years later, Win7 comes out, fixing most of the real performance killers in Vista.
Then there is IE, admittedly on their own they could see no problem with it until Mozilla started eating their lunch. BTW, it was the Mozilla and OpenOffice 1-2 punch that made it possible for me to wean myself of MS product.
But Windows Mobile - I have never seen a product actually get worse and still keep selling every generation. Mobile 7 might finally get there, but it will still be crippled into the MS software architecture, only synch with Activesynch sources, only talk to MS Office Comms and Unified Messaging, and If they could get away with it, only MS operated social sites, but this one might be harder to force.

Interesting that on a completely closed platform like iOS I can do the following:
Synch with Activesynch to my work Exchange System for mail, And ActiveSynch with Google for Calendar and contacts, and iMap to Google and my own home server for personal email, Synch music and podcasts through iTunes on Windows or OS X, and access the media from Ubuntu 10.4 - a really nice surprise.
A Win7 Mobile will have one purpose for MS, to get you to buy the MS server and desktop suites. Being a usable mobile OS is only a secondary consideration.

Re:Gir's Analysis: Doom, Doom, Doom

[Mr_Silver]

Works the same on pretty much every version of Android. I'm not sure if the GP was referring to that specific number or its format, or that specific phone model's default messaging app + number combination - I don't know.

From my, somewhat limited, research, it looks to be an issue with HTC's modifications to the Android user interface. Essentially they've modified the SMS and dialer application and forgotten cut/copy/paste. The lack of same functionality within the Gmail app appears to be universal to all Android devices though.

Whilst the "copy a number via SMS and then call it" issue isn't Google's fault, the problem is that a lot of people think that HTC's modification are indicative of the whole Android experience.

Re:Gir's Analysis: Doom, Doom, Doom

[Mr_Silver]

My Android phone (Droid X) sees "the number is 07921 123456 bye" as containing a number. The number is underlined, and if I press it it opens up the dialer. I'm using Google Voice for SMS though so I don't know if that would affect it. I can also press and hold to copy the entire message text, which I can then paste into the text field and edit, and then re-copy if I want just the number. Finally, I tested pasting into the dialer's entry field, and pasted in just fine as "07921 123456".

I added an update here which, I think, explains the issue. In short it looks like Motorola haven't mucked up the SMS and dialer application!

Re:Gir's Analysis: Doom, Doom, Doom

[Anonymous Coward]

But if you're an executive for whom computers isn't your core business, Windows = business and Apple = schoolkids.

In 1995-2000, perhaps, but not today.

But only to true employees

[ion]

But only to true employees, not to temps and interns.

Re:But only to true employees

[tomhudson]

But only to true employees, not to temps and interns.

Actually, true employees get a WP7 phone.

Temps and interns get 2 WP7 phones, and a dozen KINs

Re:But only to true employees

[Anonymous Coward]

Or contractors.

Remember, out of that 90k employees, about 99% of them - the people that actually do the work while the FTE's drink all day and sexually molest the cute underage interns - are contractors or other forms of "dash trash", as the FTE's call us.

Re:But only to true employees

[Anonymous Coward]

This is the 21st Century version of "Oh, so you *didn't* get the memo?" aka "I'm an employee, and you're not"

Re:But only to true employees

[donutface]

As far as the interns goes its pretty short sighted not to give them one of these phones. Odds are theyll be going back to university and have a much larger group of people looking at what theyre using than the FTEs inside Microsoft who will all already be converts. What I'd like to see is how many of those employees will actually give up their iPhone.

Re:But only to true employees

[IICV]

This sort of thing actually backfired on them a while ago - when I interned at Microsoft, we all got a free old-generation Zune. A year later, an entire generation of Microsoft interns got a free present: all our Zunes crashed. Just think about how horrible that was for PR: that entire crop of interns, who in theory are the future of the technology industry, got a first-hand look at how shitty Microsoft's products can be.

Re:But only to true employees

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny that when Apple does it, it is hailed as a great move and that the company cares for its employees and every slashdotter wishes he was working in Apple
When MS does it, its because of ulterior motives like they want to show increased sales and increase user base and force employees to develop apps.
Seesh!

Human rights

[Thanshin]

I truly hope they aren't forced to actually use them.

I can imagine the poor microsofties (I wonder what their gfs and wives think of the name) having to hide in the bathroom to use their Android phones.

Amnesty international should investigate this.

Hey! A solution would be to open the w7phones, empty them and put an old htc inside! That way not only they'd reduce employee suicide but it may become marketable!

Re:Human rights

[zlogic]

Old HTCs are Windows Mobile-only, they only started making Android phones last year. And Windows Mobile is the wost mobile phone OS out there.

Re:Human rights

[Anonymous Coward]

WinMobile may be one of the worst smartphone OS's for non-technical consumers for a lot of reasons, including instability, hardware variability, poorly thought out UI standards such that touch screens are almost wasted on the devices, etc. -- and on the other end of the spectrum the iPhone is the obvious "best of class" in that regard.

But WinMobile provides the least barrier to entry for programmers who enjoy playing and experimenting with their electronics. C# is a great programming language which I'll take over Java anyday. .NETCF is a top of the line mobile class framework. I run Python on my WinMobile phone, and I didn't have to "jailbreak" it first. Here, the iPhone represents one of the very worst of class, being a walled garden. But WinMobile is one of the best smartphone OS's -- for the narrow case of programming enthusiasts who want to treat their smartphone like a computer.

Which raises the question, what are your values here? When you say that Windows Mobile is the "wost [sic] mobile phone OS out there", I'm going to hazard a guess that you're speaking as a consumer of iFart apps.

Re:Human rights

[Anonymous Coward]

I had a Palm Treo 650 - with Pam OS it was nice. Then it broke after I dropped it, and insurance would only replace with the current Pam phone available in NZ, a 750W - ummm, this is like telling an OS X user that even through you have insurance for replacement, you'll have to replace it with this HP here! This was my first Winmobile, and it lasted in my pocket 2 months before being sold and I bought an iPhone instead. That Win mobile Treo was hopeless, crappy battery, no wifi, poor memory management, low res screen, and Win Mobile would of course not synch with my Mac, or my GNU/Linux machines. To install apps, you had to run windows .exe files, and even then 80% of the apps I did try didn't work. Did I need an app for WinCE, mobile 5, mobile 6? what?? Oh, my screens the wrong size - or the app just crashed... a lot!
The Apple app store was just like a Linux repository, software I knew had been tested for the OS I was running, that just downloaded, and in most cases worked like it said in the description.
In fact, I think Linux distros should cash in on the name "appstore", now people actually know what it's for, and just call the repositories - Free-AppStores!

Eating your own dog food?

[Drakkenmensch]

Microsoft's strategy sounds good in theory, but if in practice their own employees ends up not liking or using their free phones, how would that look for them? Only time will tell.

Re:Eating your own dog food?

[east coast]

Maybe Microsoft is interested in finding out who uses it, how and why and likewise from the non-users. I don't understand what the big stir is about a company using it's own product and looking for employee feedback.

Re:Eating your own dog food?

[Keebler71]

Maybe MS just wants to find out if there are any major design flaws before releasing it to the public... say... like an antenna design flaw... booyaa!

Re:Eating your own dog food?

[Drakkenmensch]

Good point. The last thing Steve Ballmer wants is to lose a call and have Steve Jobs pop out from behind a tree, pointing as he yells a Nelson Monts style "HA HA!"

Re:Eating your own dog food?

[Bert64]

Apple tried that too, but it seems their employees weren't able to keep their iphones for long enough without losing them...

Re:Eating your own dog food?

[0123456]

I'd rather eat dog food than use a Microsoft phone.

Re:Eating your own dog food?

[glebd]

Those not liking or using their Windows Phone 7 will be fired.

Re:Eating your own dog food?

[MachineShedFred]

The real question is if Microsoft will have some of their legendary pressure applied to people that already have competing smartphones to drop them in amnesty bins or suffer the social consequences of the Redmond zealotry for being seen with an Android phone, or an iPhone around campus...

It will be ridiculed here

[Anonymous Coward]

but, I think the interface is very sleek and my company develops business applications to Mobile devices and I am in the group to develop applications for Windows Phone 7. The application interface is pretty good and we recently got couple of those Samsung devices to test our applications and it does do a good job. No doubt this current version of OS do not provide support for SQL-CE DB or multi-tasking or even copy & paste. But .net provides pretty good infrastructure to concoct a rudimentary in-memory db for our case. Other things would have been really useful for what we do. Despite these deficiencies I think, this is a pretty good OS and good UI from MS.

Re:It will be ridiculed here

[Anonymous Coward]

The interface looks totally impractical to me. Microsoft appear to have concentrated on producing something visually flashy at the expense of usability.

With the iPhone's grid of icons you can access functionality very rapidly and it's instantly apparent to the user how it works. With Windows Phone 7 virtual desktop it's much slower to access functionality as you're required to scroll around the desktop. I also don't think it's going to appeal to the average user simply because it looks so slow and cumbersome compared to a simple grid of icons.

User interfaces used to be Microsoft's greatest strength, now it appears to be their greatest weakness.

Re:It will be ridiculed here

[Missing.Matter]

The UI is identical to the Zune HD, which I find far superior to the iPod in terms of usability. The grid of icons fits a single-app centric UI nicely, but that's not what microsoft is going for here. The metro UI is task-based, where similar tasks are grouped into hubs, and each page of the hub acts almost like an independent yet related app. Personally, I feel like interaction with the metro UI is very fluid (you flow from one task to the next), whereas the iPod UI is very isolated (you start and stop tasks continually)

Re:It will be ridiculed here

[ratboy666]

Gasping, laughing...

What you said was:

The phone supports a .NET infrastructure, and does not have in-memory and in-device datasets/databases with keyed retrieval and SQL?

The phone supports a .NET infrastructure, and does not allow multitasking (even though it is a network device)?

Are you serious? Not being .NET, Windows or related developer, I couldn't comment on it.

I did install "mono" to allow some stuff to run -- I assume that the .NET run-time is comparable.

[user@ariel ~]$ du -h -s /usr/lib/mono
59M /usr/lib/mono
[user@ariel ~]$

Anyway, I am sure it's "sleek" and "pretty good".

True Test

[Anonymous Coward]

This is one of those "lead a horse to water" things. You can give your employees a phone, but you can't make them actually use it. If it's a crappy device no one will use it, no matter how cheap.

Far from certain

[Wovel]

They will put it in a drawer and keep using their iPhones.

Re:Far from certain

[Walterk]

That's harsh. I'm sure they'll put it on ebay or craigslist before hiding it in a drawer.

Re:Far from certain

[gbjbaanb]

that depends on how embarrassed you are to admit owning a Win7 phone, even one you're selling.

Its the new buyer who will put it in a drawer :)

It isn't even real Windows CE

[tepples]

Windows Phone 7 isn't even real Windows CE. The user can't load and run apps designed for previous versions of Windows Mobile, only apps designed from Silverlight or XNA, and even then only from the official app store. Want to make your own apps? 99 bucks a year, just like iPhone. (To be fair, iPhone copied this app store model largely from Microsoft's XNA Creators Club and Xbox Live Indie Games.)

Re:It isn't even real Windows CE

[jisatsusha]

It's actually worse than that. It's $99 per year, plus $99 per application.

Re:It isn't even real Windows CE

[arndawg]

And thank god for that. Have you seen androids marketplace lately? It's flooded with stupid soundboard apps and other shit.

Re:It isn't even real Windows CE

[Anonymous Coward]

What are you smoking? $99 a year if you develop and sell more than 5 applications through the marketplace. the first five are free

Re:It isn't even real Windows CE

[tepples]

Have you seen androids marketplace lately?

An advantage of Android over WP7 and iOS is that the owner of the phone can turn on "Unknown sources" without paying an annual fee. So as long as you didn't get your phone from AT&T, you don't need the Market for free apps if the author provides an APK for download.

Re:It isn't even real Windows CE

[arndawg]

Yeah I agree that's nice. But a fee for access to the market where everything should be safe is a good idea. If someone wants to manually download .apks thats fine. I've done it time to time. But the market place should not be riddled with stuff i'd only compare with spam.

Re:It isn't even real Windows CE

[Missing.Matter]

Which sound like a much better model that "All apps are free." This lowers the barrier of entry for the one-off app dev, but makes it very expensive for the cookie-cutter app devs to operate.

Re:It isn't even real Windows CE

[Anonymous Coward]

The XBLIG creator's club fee has nothing to do with WP7 development at the moment. They aren't even integrated in anyway.

Re:It isn't even real Windows CE

[nschubach]

I actually find that sorting by ranking tends to weed out most/all of that... I can't think of a time within the past month I went to find something and ran across a sound board or some stupid app without digging down a few pages.

Re:It isn't even real Windows CE

[poetmatt]

guess what? at least the good apps are also free.

have you seen apple's store lately? It's all premium fart apps.

Re:It isn't even real Windows CE

[poetmatt]

tell that to apple, android, and windows 7. Don't think win7 isn't going to have spam equivalents. They'd have to raise it to $1000/app if they wanted to try to prevent such.

Also, this guarantees that nobody is going to release *any* applications on it for free. Everyone's going to demand that they recoup their $99 in the same fashion that the RIAA/MPAA demands their money.

Re:It isn't even real Windows CE

[Anonymous Coward]

wrong. The first $99 gets you 5 app submissions, beyond the first 5 it is $19 an app.

Re:It isn't even real Windows CE

[larry bagina]

Or ad supported. I'm sure ActiveAd (requiring silverlight) will be here soon.

Re:It isn't even real Windows CE

[Anonymous Coward]

So far I've only been able to find documents on the annual subscription fee of $99 with unlimited paid apps and 5 free apps. Any additional free app costs you about $20.

Re:It isn't even real Windows CE

[Anonymous Coward]

I was told by a little birdie that this will very likely drop to 0, ie; the certification and testing process will be optional, there will be no need to register as an ISV, and there will be either a category in marketplace, or a seperate "app source" for free-for-all content. They seem to realize that this has to happen to put them on equal footing with android. But, like Apple, they don't want it to launch with crappy apps. They also want the real world experience to make sure apps are appropriately sandboxed before they open the floodgates.

My first complaint with my android when I got it, back in the day, running 1.x, was that the marketplace was jammed with dogshit until it was airtight, and there was no good way to filter out the stuff you might actually want. The "games" section was particularly craptacular, with a hundred million tic-tac-toe, guess-the-number, and other such helloWorld.java-ish creations. They've improved it somewhat.

Re:It isn't even real Windows CE

[Rogerborg]

Have you seen androids marketplace lately? It's flooded with stupid soundboard apps and other shit.

Spoken like a true... consumer.

Re:It isn't even real Windows CE

[wilsonthecat]

It's actually worse than that. It's $99 per year, plus $99 per application.

But the first 5 application submissions are free. After that you pay which arguably keeps their appstore free of complete rubbish like the iPhone appstore has become.

Re:It isn't even real Windows CE

[owlstead]

It is only flooded with it if you cannot wade through it, and you can.

Re:It isn't even real Windows CE

[tepples]

Also, this guarantees that nobody is going to release *any* applications on it for free.

How does the Windows Phone 7 developer program fee kill $0.00 apps any more than the iOS developer program fee?

Re:It isn't even real Windows CE

[tepples]

The XBLIG creator's club fee has nothing to do with WP7 development at the moment. They aren't even integrated in anyway.

I was trying to say that even though they are separate programs, they share similar fee structures.

Watch out ebay

[javilon]

There will go straight to ebay and the money from the sale used to buy android terminals :-)

Re:Watch out ebay

[Alex Belits]

You mean, someone will buy those phones on ebay?

Re:Watch out ebay

[Crudely_Indecent]

You beat me to it!

Coming soon: 89,999 windows phones on eBay. All except the one from the guy that actually likes windows 7 mobile.

I wouldn't like that.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd prefer a Rolex like Domino's issued for good employees:
Look here

GM did something similar in the late 90s

[DG]

One of the perks of working for an auto company is the ability to lease a car at a drastically reduced rate. And once you reach a certain salary level, the auto company "pays" the lease so the car is effectively free.

There are controls - Chrysler, for example, wouldn't give employees Vipers or Prowlers - but there was a pretty broad selection of cars to choose from.

Except for a period in the late 90s/early oughts where the only GM company car was the Pontiac Aztek.

I'd drive past their plants/offices in Detroit and the employee parking lot was solid Azteks.

<NELSON>Ha-ha!</NELSON>

DG

Re:GM did something similar in the late 90s

[SonnyDog09]

Those upper level auto employees are "evaluating" the vehicles, so that doesn't count as part of their compensation. They don't pay tax on the value of the vehicle, because they are "evaluating" it. Of course, when I was at Ford, the big shots were all "evaluating" Jags and Land Rovers, while lesser mortals got to evaluate Tauruses. If the company was really mad at you, you got to "evaluate" a lime green Escort.

Re:GM did something similar in the late 90s

[L4t3r4lu5]

Pontiac Aztek

Barfy McBarfson, Batman! That looks like someone glued a Prius onto a Hilux.

Re:GM did something similar in the late 90s

[DG]

You should see one in pea green....

A puke-green Aztek is pretty much the perfect storm of automobile ugly.

DG

Re:GM did something similar in the late 90s

[Anonymous Coward]

A puke-green Aztek is pretty much the perfect storm of automobile ugly.

That would be an avocado AMC Gremlin with orange shag interior!

Re:GM did something similar in the late 90s

[glebd]

So you're basically saying Microsoft is really mad at their employees.

Who's going to pay for the service plan?

[ClaraBow]

I'm sure employees aren't going to use the phone without service, and if MS is going to pay for all of their service plans, it's going to cost them quite a bit!

Re:Who's going to pay for the service plan?

[benjymous]

They'd be unlocked phones, though, so presumably people could just stick the SIM from their existing phone into it.

(At which point the phone's death claws grab hold of the SIM never to let it go again! Mwahahaaha!)

Re:Who's going to pay for the service plan?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's actually brilliant:

1. Give the windows 7 phone to all your employees

2. Downscale because of economic crisis and sack half of them

3. The (now ex-)employees want to keep in touch with their ex-colleagues so will continue to produce revenue, in the form of phone bills

4. ???

5. Profit!

Re:Who's going to pay for the service plan?

[Sockatume]

Right, but then Microsoft's corporate partners would throw a decoupling of service and hardware exception and MS'd have to send out a bunch of spokespeople to reassure T-Mo and the rest that no, Microsoft isn't about to advocate people buying phones off-contract.

Re:Who's going to pay for the service plan?

[LWATCDR]

Not in the US.
You would be stuck with AT&T or TMobile but...
Most phones only support 3G on AT&T or TMobile. Very few phones support it on both carriers including the iPhone.

My guess is you will be stuck with it on a launch carrier or you will get to pick your carrier.
Maybe these are company phones?
So they pay for the plan as well?

Re:Who's going to pay for the service plan?

[Keith111]

The phone is not going to be unlocked, it is going to be a carrier bloated phone and employees will have to choose which carrier they receive it from. Microsoft will not be paying for the service, only the phone.

Call the employee daily

[tepples]

You can give your employees a phone, but you can't make them actually use it.

Call the employee on each day when the employee is scheduled to work. If the employee doesn't pick up, record it as an absence.

Re:Call the employee daily

[jellomizer]

What are you saying the Windows 7 mobile phone doesn't support call forwarding either?

Re:Call the employee daily

[Bert64]

Take the simcard out and put it in a different handset..

Re:Call the employee daily

[tepples]

Take the simcard out and put it in a different handset..

I thought of two ways for Microsoft to work around that. For one thing, Verizon and Sprint don't use a removable CSIM; instead, the subscriber identity is hardwired into the phone. For another, the communication could be made through a WP7-exclusive app instead of a voice call.

Re:Call the employee daily

[kaiser423]

Huh? Talk about illegal. "If you don't answer this phone when I call, I get to void all 8 hours you worked today!" I don't see that going over well in a courtroom.

Re:Call the employee daily

[kimvette]

So, when the WP7 phone they hand out proves to have reception worse than the iPhone4+"deathgrip" employees will be recorded as absent and docked one day's pay per missed call. Nice!

One of the very best things about Windows Mobile up to now was the lack of locking it down. You could install any damn app you want, or code your own, and very easily install it. It is very easy to integrate into corporate environments and to develop tools for deploying app updates. This new locked-down WP7 completely destroys any remaining advantage Microsoft had over Apple.

Re:Call the employee daily

[tepples]

Reception isn't a problem. Someone who lives in a poor reception area but who has Internet at home can confirm possession of the phone over Wi-Fi.

Re:Call the employee daily

[Anonymous Coward]

That's a great way of having an employee quit and start working for Apple instead.

Re:Call the employee daily

[selven]

And if the employee happens to be going to the washroom / sleeping / driving at the time?

Re:Call the employee daily

[hexadecimate]

You, sir, are a genius.

An evil, twisted genius.

Eat their dog food.

[xtracto]

This is a good move, at least in that people at Microsoft will get to eat their own dog food (at least while they are at MS campus) and hopefully they can show some issues with the interface.

OTOH, I can imagine the majority of them will just leave their phone laying on their desk.

To thank their employees, heh

[noidentity]

A Microsoft spokesman confirmed the move, explaining that the idea is to "thank" employees for all their work, and make sure that they have experience with Windows Phone 7 devices.

I bet they can't wait to receive this gift.

Re:To thank their employees, heh

[L4t3r4lu5]

Unless they run paperless offices, or have non-opening windows, there will always be one use for a Windows phone...

I can't wait ......

[Chrisq]

I can't wait until someone jailbreaks them and comes up with a way of running Android

Re:I can't wait ......

[MikeBabcock]

Hey Steve, this phone's great, did you know it runs Linux really smooth?

*ducks chair*

Re:I can't wait ......

[LWATCDR]

Wish they would do that with the Kins.
Really what is Microsoft going to do with all those Kins?
They are really good hardware. Wish they ran Android.

Stupid

[Mr_Silver]

So, how can Microsoft guarantee its Windows Phone 7 devices will enjoy broader adoption than the ill-fated Kin? By giving every Microsoft employee a free one, that's how

I'm sorry but this is a stupid statement and a stupid article. Apple gives a large number of it's employees an iPhone and Google gives a large number of its an Android phone. It's call "eating your own dog food".

In addition they get a friendly pool of testers who can give them instant feedback (and probably quite detailed given that they'll naturally try to use it with the products they are managing) on the devices in real world situations (such as bugs, issues, integration with web services, exchange support) and can also simulate some scenarios (such large scale remote activation, wipe and locate) far better than a couple of devices in a lab can.

Finally, if you're a manufacturer of a product, it doesn't look very good if your employees all use your competitors does it? Whenever I've dealt with a Samsung, Sony Ericsson, Apple, HTC or LG rep I've never seen them use anything but their own phones and I'd be concerned about the statement they are making if they did.

Re:Stupid

[Mongoose Disciple]

It's call "eating your own dog food".

It's boggling to me that this seems to have gone over the head of most of the people responding to this article.

In addition to everything you said being true, they're also giving their phone to (mostly) a bunch of developers. It wouldn't surprise me if some of them end up writing (as hobby/side projects) whatever key apps are available for Android/iPhone that Windows phone doesn't have -- and I assume there are a lot of them.

Re:Stupid

[ukyoCE]

It certainly makes sense as a company to do this.

It's only funny because unlike Google and Apple's devices, no one wants a W7 phone. Not even for free.

Re:Stupid

[Just Some Guy]

Whenever I've dealt with a Samsung, Sony Ericsson, Apple, HTC or LG rep I've never seen them use anything but their own phones and I'd be concerned about the statement they are making if they did.

A rep, sure, but I'd like to think that rank-and-file employees wouldn't be discouraged from using competitive products. How else are you going to know what the competition is doing? Something like "Hey, boss, have you seen how the iPhone handles ${whatever}? That's pretty slick and I think it works better than the way we're doing it." should be considered valuable feedback.

Re:Stupid

[Anonymous Coward]

The kin sold roughly 8,000 phones so by giving the 90,000 employees a Windows Phone 7 phone the user base is automatically greater than 10 times the kin user base. Hence broader adaption.

The statement was a joke.

Re:Stupid

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree!
You don't see people at Coca Cola drinking Pepsi Cola either..
I would make a big thing about it if I would see an employee use a product from my competitors (if I owned a business that is :)).

Re:Stupid

[Mr_Silver]

A rep, sure, but I'd like to think that rank-and-file employees wouldn't be discouraged from using competitive products. How else are you going to know what the competition is doing? Something like "Hey, boss, have you seen how the iPhone handles ${whatever}? That's pretty slick and I think it works better than the way we're doing it." should be considered valuable feedback.

Totally agree and that sort of thing happens all the time.

Having said that, most companies I know prefer that an employees primary phone is one of their own. Quite often it's one that is incomplete and not yet released because it's a good way to weed out bugs - and employees generally love getting shiny new toys that no-one else has.

For years my primary phone was my next product. As soon as it was launched, I changed my phone. My friends always found it amusing that I didn't like having a phone that everyone else had.

Re:Stupid

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the original statement is more of a jab against the KIN than WP7. The KIN sold anywhere between 500 and 10,000 units. Giving a WP7 to all 90,000 employees guarantees it'll be used more than the KIN. :P

Re:Stupid

[Taxman415a]

So, how can Microsoft guarantee its Windows Phone 7 devices will enjoy broader adoption than the ill-fated Kin? By giving every Microsoft employee a free one, that's how

I'm sorry but this is a stupid statement and a stupid article.

No, you really missed the point. They seriously sold like 500 to 1000 kin phones, so handing out 90,000 of these phones is two orders of magnitude greater. Guaranteed greater marketshare. Of course MS used to be able to sell Windows phones before there were things that were much better and easier to use, but that's in significant doubt now. Sure, they'll be able to sell some, but I'd be extremely surprised if they crack significant market share. If they do it will be by one of two ways: actually creating one of the best products they ever have in order to compete, or the same old dirty business tricks that made dos, windows, exchange, etc successful.

Hah!

[Diabolus Advocatus]

Even to its own employees Microsoft has to give its new phone away ;)

Marketing Ploy?

[TheRedDuke]

You don't suppose this is a genius marketing strategy to get their devices into as many people's hands as possible, blow them away with the features, get them dependent, that way they'll want to buy a Kin2?

Oh right. This is one of those "real" failures. Never mind.

Oblig

[should_be_linear]

I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if 90,000 voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.

Re:Oblig

[jo42]

...and 90,001 winPhone7 auctions appear on eBay...

Re:Oblig

[Anonymous Coward]

lolololol ... now that was funny

Front-end and shared back-end?

[tepples]

What is the best practice for writing a cross-platform smartphone application?

I understand that an app will need a different front-end playing to the strengths of each platform. But one of the advantages of the model-view-controller or multitier pattern is supposed to be that that platform-specific front-ends can share one generic back-end containing all the business logic. But it appears that the runtime environments don't share support for popular programming languages that could be used for the back-end. Apps for other major smartphone platforms are written in Java (BlackBerry, Android), standard C++ (Maemo/MeeGo), or Objective-C++ (iPhone). Standard C++ and Objective-C++ do not compile to verifiably memory-safe CIL, and J# is no longer updated. Silverlight apps are expected to be written in C#, Visual Basic, C++/CLI with the /clr:safe switch (whose syntax for handles is incompatible with standard C++'s syntax for pointers), or another .NET language.

Oh, I get it. Microsoft wants apps to be developed for and only for WP7.

Re:Front-end and shared back-end?

[benjymous]

Android supports C++ too, so your best bet is to develop the core in C++, with java and obj-c frontends for Android and iPhone, and just pretend that the MS platform doesn't exist.

Or go mad with #define trickery to make your C++ code compile under CLI

Re:Front-end and shared back-end?

[Anonymous Coward]

...and just pretend that the MS platform doesn't exist.

I am fascinated by your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Re:Front-end and shared back-end?

[Anonymous Coward]

Model View Controllers and support of multiple platforms are great in theory, but, in practice, don't hold up. At least, that's the results I've seen in, probably, four major applications.

It's great for maintenance of an application, but it's highly overrated when using it for multiple platforms.

Talk about low expectation mother-f@ckers.

[tomhudson]

So, 90,000 phones will be a "success"?

Well, sure, it's more than 10x the number of KINs that were sold - but at least those were actual sales, even if they lost $100,000 per sale. Not some "here, use this phone - your job review is coming up."

You're an employee and you want to sue Microsoft? Refuse to give up your iPhone. Microsoft can no more tie your job review to you giving up an iPhone than GM can fire you for driving a Ford.

1. Get fired for refusing to give up iPhone
2. Litigate
3. PROFIT!

Of course, it's all moot - Ballmer won't be at Microsoft much longer.

Re:Talk about low expectation mother-f@ckers.

[recoiledsnake]

Things never change at Slashdot. The summary is needlessly incendiary and posters just jump the shark on the strawman without regards to reality. Or maybe it's karma whoring for mod points, but it usually works on here.

Apple supplies iPhones to employees and Google did the same with Nexus one:

http://googlemobile.blogspot.com/2009/12/android-dogfood-diet-for-holidays.html
http://gps.about.com/b/2009/12/12/prototype-google-phone-released-to-employees-gps-features.htm

And who the hell talked about "success" in giving phones to employees and where did you get the news about job reviews and employees being forced to give up iPhones?

Re:Talk about low expectation mother-f@ckers.

[tomhudson]

The whole "eating your own dog food" thing is a bogus excuse for making desperate noises about WP7 after the 2 billion dollar KIN failure (right now, it's "more than a billion, less than 2 - but there are still some serious bills to be negotiated).

The problem isn't the giveaway - the problem is that the WP7 is a piece of crap software compared to what's out there right now - even Microsoft's own employees admit it - and will be even more of a piece of crap by the holiday season.

Doesn't matter - Ballmer is on his way out. The replacement will make Neutron Jack look like the fairy godmother. 50%.

Re:Talk about low expectation mother-f@ckers.

[dissy]

Microsoft can no more tie your job review to you giving up an iPhone than GM can fire you for driving a Ford.

Microsoft (and Ford for that matter) both can do those things.

What is illegal is telling you why they fired you, not the act of firing you for a illegitimate reason.
Yes the law is worded different to imply that isn't the case, but you can't look at the written law alone, you must look at the outcomes of the court cases.

Literally not a single company has ever gotten in legal trouble for firing someone and NOT stating the reason why.
It is only the ones that give a reason for being fired to the ex-employee, and a court decides that reason is a bad one.

From the outcome of all such cases, I can only conclude that firing someone for a crappy reason is not illegal, only telling them why you fired them is, as that is all that has ever been punished.

Re:Talk about low expectation mother-f@ckers.

[tomhudson]

Microsoft (and Ford for that matter) both can do those things.

Literally not a single company has ever gotten in legal trouble for firing someone and NOT stating the reason why.
It is only the ones that give a reason for being fired to the ex-employee, and a court decides that reason is a bad one.

The courts say otherwise. Plenty of people have gone to court over, for example, constructive dismissal, where the company not only doesn't give a reason, but doesn't even fire the person.

Re:Talk about low expectation mother-f@ckers.

[dissy]

The courts say otherwise. Plenty of people have gone to court over, for example, constructive dismissal, where the company not only doesn't give a reason, but doesn't even fire the person.

Hmm, I haven't heard of 'constructive dismissal' before. What do you mean by the company doesn't fire them?

In that case, pretty much my entire post should then be qualified with 'when your employment is terminated by the employer'.

I guess the misunderstanding is because I incorrectly used the word 'fired' as a synonym for 'employment termination'.
The other two methods I am aware of are generally not considered being fired, ie being laid off work, or quitting.

Between those two, if you are laid off then you are granted some benefits such as unemployment, and still having your employee contract fulfilled (Assuming any severance package or similar is in the contract in the first place)

When a person is terminated (fired) with reason, then generally you do not get such benefits, at least without intervention of a court. So between the two, being laid off is preferable to being fired for those reasons alone.

However I still have to stand by my assertion. The only cases I have ever seen where a company got in any legal trouble for firing someone, is when they tell the employee why they were fired, the employee sues, and a judge agrees the reason was bullshit.

So to stop that from happening, a company will simply inform you that your employment has been terminated, and if you ask why the answer is a generic 'employment is at-will from both parties, and we do not have the will'
In every single case I've seen, the courts side with the company that it is their right to do that, and I have enough friends out of work whom that very thing happened to (some of which have been through court) and got nothing.

Of course there are shady companies that just out right lie about the reason, but that has a risk of getting caught in the lie, and that Does carry huge fines and penalties.
Similarly, there are a handful of reasons defined as discriminatory, which if the company said is the reason for firing you, or even if they didn't say it but you can prove that is the case, the company will get in trouble for doing so.

But these days short of gross incompetence, that just doesn't happen. It's safer to keep their mouth shut, so that is the behavior many follow as a matter of course now.

Re:Talk about low expectation mother-f@ckers.

[tomhudson]

Constructive dismissal is the illegal practice of changing the working conditions of the employee such that they have no real alternative but to quit. When the job conditions are changed too much, it's no longer the job you were hired for, so in effect the employer has terminated your original job, and instead silently substituted another one on a "take it or leave it" basis.

It's the employment equivalent of "bait-and-switch."

It can be anything from social ostracism (in one case, the employee was moved to a desk away from everyone else, and everyone else was instructed not to talk to them), to changing job tasks, pay cuts above a certain amount, sexual or other harassment, or simply not giving the employee the tools to do the job they were hired for.

Assumptions Assumptions

[eldavojohn]

I don't care how refined it is. In other words: I don't care how much MS does to step up their technology.

Not true. I own an XBox360. I have a partition with a legit copy of Windows XP at home on one of my desktops. But I will never ever use IE again. I even get a little sick when I have to use IE to update XP. Firefox, Chrome, Opera I'll take anything over IE. Having had to develop to support IE6 for the longest time, I am jaded. I am biased. But if you get burned by something, you usually don't reward the company by continuing to use that product. This is how I feel about IE. I don't want it on my phone.

I hate them and anything they do will not be good enough for me.

No, I'm critical of them and everything they do. Similar to when I tear apart Google or Apple. They are big players with big resources and bigger responsibilities. They do get things right once in a while, this phone and the Zune were not done right in my opinion.

I'm a raving fanboi with a chip on my shoulder and if you want an honest opinion of a product from a company that I hate you're not going to find it here.

Well, to use either-you're-with-us-or-against-us-black-and-white extremes, I can't criticize anything around here without being accused of being a raving fanboi. And who am I a fanboi of exactly?

I really wish they had an ignore button around here.

Yeah, it's called your foes list. Log in, change your relationship with me to 'foe' and then add a foe modifier of -6. As long as you're logged in, you'll never see my posts again. Please, do us both a favor.

Re:Assumptions Assumptions

[qortra]

But I will never ever use IE again. I even get a little sick when I have to use IE to update XP.

At one point, I memorized an FTP address for Mozilla so I wouldn't have to load IE to download Firefox on new installations.

Re:Assumptions Assumptions

[TheSpoom]

When I was doing tech support for HP desktops, I memorized the FTP address to download Ad-Aware via Windows' command line FTP client.

It wasn't out of a dislike of IE, more that if they were calling in, there was a 50% likelihood that their IE simply would not work due to spyware.

Re:Assumptions Assumptions

[Anonymous Coward]

Really? I just kept a copy of the latest Firefox installer on a flash drive.
Talk about dedication!

Re:Assumptions Assumptions

[Bryansix]

To be fair have you even used IE 8? I avoided it when it came out too. The reports that it broke the Internet, didn't work on Microsofts own website, etc. But now I use it all the time and sometimes don't even bother with Firefox. Know why? It actually works better most of the time. It's not constantly getting hijacked. It loads pages correctly but also features compatability mode for incorrectly coded sites. The best feature though is InPrivate browsing which actually works better then Firefox because you can have both InPrivate and normal browsing sessions with seperate cookies and seperate logins going at the same time. Seriously, give it a try because I think you will like it.

Microsoft Marketing

[helix2301]

This is a great move by Microsoft. They are getting the phone exposure while giving employees incentive. Plus this is great PR for Microsoft on the employee side and on the public image side.

Well deserved.

[Anonymous Coward]

After all the good work they've done, I think it's only a matter of justice that they receive a product as good as the ones they make.

Windows Mobile is a pain in the ass!

[JakFrost]

I've been using this so-called OS for a while and I am quite positive that when Microsoft made the move from the unstable, bluescreening, freezing, and crashing Windows 95/98/ME 16-bit kernel to the stable Windows NT 3.51/4.0/XP/2000 32-bit kernel they had to do something with the 16-bit operating system developers so they made them all work on Windows Mobile! This is the only logical explanation as to why Windows Mobile sucks so bad, freezes so often, crashes every week, and manages to screw up my phone ever few months on its own corrupting all data... for the last three Windows Mobile phones that I owned. All builds of Windows Mobile 6.5.5 are so horrible from one to another with major changes to the GUI and lack of stability that I have had to downgrade my phone back to 6.5.0 to get some stability and usefulness out of the phone.

Windows Mobile 7 is now made incompatible with 6.5 and earlier versions just sounds like Microsoft is trying to push OS/2 on people by calling it better than Windows 3.11 without the compatibility shims.

I'm just looking for a new Google Android based phone to come out on a CDMA (US - Sprint, Verizon) network that has GSM capabilities with a SIM card and a full-size keyboard, such as the HTC Touch Pro 2 that I currently have to use and endure the Windows Mobile crap. Once that is out I'm ditching Windows Mobile forever!

Re:Windows Mobile is a pain in the ass!

[shutdown -p now]

from the unstable, bluescreening, freezing, and crashing Windows 95/98/ME 16-bit kernel to the stable Windows NT 3.51/4.0/XP/2000 32-bit kernel

Win9x kernel is not 16-bit.

Re:Windows Mobile is a pain in the ass!

[Blastercorps]

I'm not really following you here. Why don't you just get a straight up GSM phone? Why is CDMA a requirement?

Re:Windows Mobile is a pain in the ass!

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows Mobile was developed as a "general purpose" OS (much like the desktop Windows), and was meant to be a framework in which Handset makers would optimize for their hardware (open standards).

Well-- that didn't work out too well because manufacturers focus on hardware, not software and the result was evident. This is why the change to a more dedicated OS, where Redmond does ALL of the work, and the phone manufacturers can only add apps or content to.

For example, I've used the Tmobile Dash (HTC Excalibur) for about 3 years now. The Tmobile images just sucked, and the phone sucked as a result. However, a trip over the the xda-developers yeilded Windows Mobile 6.5 images that are not only clean, but current, fast, and better than anything Tmobile ever produced.

Re:Windows Mobile is a pain in the ass!

[Anonymous Coward]

Breathe. Just relax. You're still here.

Philosophical question

[elrous0]

If a MS employee leaves his MS phone prototype in a bar and no blogger considers it even worth stealing, does it make a ring?

Better deal than Barnes and Noble

[GarryFre]

Their stupid ad offered a free cappuccino if you bought their overpriced reader and organic roach killer - Hold six inches over roach, release, repeat as needed.

Re:Better deal than Barnes and Noble

[Just Some Guy]

Their stupid ad offered a free cappuccino if you bought their overpriced reader

Yeah, but the difference is that people actually want nooks.

JUST ANNOUNCED!

[iplayfast]

Google has just announced it will be giving away a free DROID system to any person who uses google.

Take that MS!

Re:JUST ANNOUNCED!

[recoiledsnake]

Google gave out Nexus Ones to their employees. http://gps.about.com/b/2009/12/12/prototype-google-phone-released-to-employees-gps-features.htm

I think we are hasty here...

[HerculesMO]

Honestly, I think the phone has potential. They don't fix their problems and as stated, it's dead on arrival.

But it's got a 50/50 shot out of the gate, and depending on the hardware vendors and things... that's a huge part of the battle. Android did well because they have some really good hardware partners.

I'll have my Samsung Vibrant (T-Mobile) next week or so, so I'll be waiting it out as well. Not dying for a WinMo7 phone, but I am interested to see the launch products.

I think it is great

[rinoid]

But why is this news? I mean, go figure, a company gives it's own employees a device it makes in house. Does this warrant discussion at /.?

Re:I think it is great

[glebd]

Because in this case it's a cruel and unusual punishment.

Poor sods.

[miffo.swe]

After reading this article i guess 90.000 people will cry out in pain once they get to know their phone. Its far beyond repair unless Microsofts postpone the launch by years.

http://www.infoworld.com/d/mobilize/windows-phone-7-dont-bother-disaster-211?page=0,0

Re:Poor sods.

[recoiledsnake]

Paul's take on that "review" http://windowsphonesecrets.com/2010/07/16/dont-bother-with-this-blog-post-disaster/

A more nuanced summary of the reviews: http://reddevnews.com/blogs/redmond-review/2010/07/wp7-and-the-court-of-pundit-opinion.aspx

Re:Poor sods.

[miffo.swe]

It doesnt matter if you call it biased. The facts are still the same, Windows Mobile 7 is dead just as the Kin. A big waste of money for no gain.

Cruel and unusual punishment

[thegarbz]

Seriously call your union reps. No one should be treated in this way in a modern workplace.

MS history of releasing products behind the curve

[Anonymous Coward]

It's called releasing a phone that's already behind the curve.

When MS released Internet Explorter, it was way behind the curve where Netscape's browser was dominating.

Now look where IE sits in the "market".

Never underestimate MS's ability to turn a product's market stance around.... especially if the 800 pound gorilla chooses a way to shove it forcefully down everyone's throats.

Both Apple and Google did this with their phones

[kervin]

Apple gave away the original IPhone and Google did so as well.

I'm sure the other phone makers have similar employee incentives.

How exactly is this news? Or some sought of new idea by MSFT?

Windows 7 mobile

[Anonymous Coward]

This means that the actual market size of the Windows 7 phone will be exactly 90,000 phones!

Just another Anonymous Coward

[Anonymous Coward]

Cool so that means windows can claim they have over 90,000 phones in use. I bet more than half of them end up on ebay... Its sad how poor Windows products are these days.

Obligatory

[augi01]

But will it run Linux?

This is a great business strategy

[Wiarumas]

This is an awesome business strategy - with this many Microsoft workers seeing how flawed this device is will hopefully prevent future... ehh who am I kidding... they are there for the paychecks... not to create quality products.

Preprocessor to handle C++ vs. C++/CLI

[tepples]

Or go mad with #define trickery to make your C++ code compile under CLI

I'm interested. Can you recommend a web page that describes how to set up a suitable header file to make a single C++ translation unit compile in /clr:safe and unmanaged modes?

Re:Preprocessor to handle C++ vs. C++/CLI

[benjymous]

I don't know if there's anything out there already, but I'd've thought it'd be possible with lots of #define insanity - basically #define around all the differences between the languages and end up writing in effectively a higher level language that abstracts down into the right language for a particular platform.

(So you'd still have to rewrite most of your existing code to fit your new syntax, but once that was done, you'd have code that could be compiled in multiple languages)

The code would end up ugly as hell, and, as I said, it'd probably drive you loopy, but it should be possible in theory.

(I can't find the link atm, but there's a great site somewhere that talks about multilingual code - basically having a source file that's valid under multiple languages by tricking the compiler into thinking the other language's code are just comments / defined out, etc)

Re:Preprocessor to handle C++ vs. C++/CLI

[benjymous]

Or just use something like Unity ;-)

Re:Zune Haters

[stewbacca]

Have any of you Zune haters actually used them??

Here's the problem. Unlike the iPod, where I can go to any electronics store and try one out, Zunes are always in a box, behind a glass case, or there's a fake one used for display. And since I don't know anybody who actually owns one, I've never been able to try one out.

A little late

[Anonymous Coward]

Probably a lot of them already have iPhones and Android phones.

In other news...

[jjl]

Microsoft reports over 90,000 preorders already for its new forthcoming Windows Phone 7.

will they give up their iphones?

[Anonymous Coward]

I went to PDC last year, 80% of the microsoft people i met there were using iphones as their personal phones, would they require a switch?

Zune integration isn't a bad thing.

[LWATCDR]

Frankly Microsoft's Zune Pass is really cool. The Zune HD is also a really nice device.
With the Zune Pass for $15 a month you get all the music you want.
You can then download $10 DRM free songs each month.
Not a bad deal at all. If I just wanted a music player I would really be tempted to get a Zune.
I wish that they offered it for my Android phone.

Yes I do not have a lot of hope for WinMo7 or WinPho7 or what ever they are calling it but in a way that is really too bad.
They have some good ideas and can produce good stuff.

No

[achurch]

It's the beer glasses set on top of it that make the ring.

Repeat of Zune?

[Avatar8]

Didn't Microsoft do this with their Zune's a year or two ago? I seem to recall a blog from a MS employee of how everyone went back to their iPods. I'm sure this will be the same result.

use the staff as beta testers

[Anonymous Coward]

They could try and give the phones to their staff before they are released to the public. That way they get to do a massive testing phase before it goes public. If they had a decent feedback system you'd hope that software engineers would be able to give reasonable feedback and help avoid a post launch disaster. Of course this relies on two key things, first the phones have to be considered "finished" before they are given out to staff and they have to pay attention to the feedback. I'm not sure Microsoft is particularly good at either of these!

Minimum wage or lockout

[tepples]

If you don't answer this phone when I call, I get to void all 8 hours you worked today!

If you think that's illegal, how about "If you don't answer this phone when I call or check your voice mail, I get to bill you at minimum wage today!" or "If you don't answer this phone when I call or check your voice mail, I get to lock you out of the office today!"

Re:Minimum wage or lockout

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsofties are salaried. You can't "bill them" at minimum wage and locking them out when they are willing to work is free vacation (although they may just use remote desktop and work from home).

There's a problem here...

[XB-70]

When a product sucks so badly that you have to give it away to your own employees, you're starting off on the wrong foot. Just watch - now, there will articles about M$ employees getting shit for having BlackBerries or iPhones. Richard Nixon said it best: "The way I got elected was to know my opponent's track record better than my own." This is true of any product - and this product is doomed to failure.

Re:There's a problem here...

[Missing.Matter]

Apple gave their employees free iPhones.

Google gave their employees Dream phones as a holiday bonus:

So according to you I suppose all these phones suck so much that they had to give them away.

Re:There's a problem here...

[PipsqueakOnAP133]

Oh come on.

When Apple gave out a free iPhone to almost all their employees, most of them tried it out and enjoyed it. You're always going to end up with one or two people like my coworker who sold hers and bought a $400 ladder. (pretty fancy ladder)

When Google gave out a G1 to all their employees, I know of several people who still have those. And I had a friend give hers away cuz she just didn't want to use it.

Whether or not the company gives them away isn't an issue. The real question is how many of the employees hang onto theirs before the next rev gets released.

Windows Mobile is not a pain in the arse.

[dunkelfalke]

I've used a lot of Windows Mobile phones with Windows Mobile 2003 to 6.5.3 (HTC Wallaby, Himalaya, Blue Angel, Magician, Universal, Athena, Diamond, Blackstone and now Leo, also TT7000 and four or five different Windows CE devices)
Only Windows Mobile 5 prior to AKU3.5 sucked (it was very slow and A2DP was broken), the rest worked as intended, although I've also downgraded from 6.5.3 back to 6.5 because I don't really like the new UI.

adoption

[Tom]

They have 90,000 employees - so this phone will have ca. 91,000 users? ;-)

Re:adoption

[selven]

Well, some of the employees will either destroy their phones or try to ebay them and, failing that, give them away to those other 1000 people. I predict 70-75k users total.

Re:adoption

[eexaa]

They have 90,000 employes.... so ebay is gonna have 89000 search results for WP7.

iPhone, Android, WP7

[igadget78]

For starters, I am a little biased since I program primarily in C# and Silverlight so take it as you may.

I have always told people about my dislike for Apple products because they were so closed and tight and when the iPhone came out, I was like absoluetly not. I will never get one of those. (and to this day that has held true). However, about 6 months ago, I won a 32gig iTouch and I started to use it. To my surprise it was simple, elegent and worked. it was incredible. I have to admit that was impressed. I still wouldn't buy an Apple computer, but I have always been a PC guy and thats what I understand.

I have never used the Android phone so I can't say for sure one way or another if it is cool as well, however my friends say that they love it so that has to count for something.

Regarding the WP7, I am very excited about it, and not just as a fan boy. I have written apps for my windows mobile 6 phone but there did not seem to be a market for any of them, now with the new Marketpalce they are going to have on the phone, I am extatic to be able to put my games and apps up on the store to sell. What I ultimately would like to do, is make a multiplayer turn based game that is cross platform between the 3 systems so that my family (Who currently mostly have the iPhone) and my friends (Who currently mostly have the Android) can all play together. The big one that they love playing is 'Words with friends' and I must admit, I enjoy it as well with my iTouch.

I believe that Microsoft will get most of it right with this new phone OS because they are mimiking to an extent, Apple's App Store and Apples closed loop of what can be on the phone, i.e. XNA and Silverlight. While I would still like to be able to just write something and put it on my phone without going through the hastle of going through the app store, it might actually work out to be fine, because who knows, maybe one of the 3 games I am writing at this moment, will make me some money instead of it being just a hobby.

wtf slashdot

[Tibor the Hun]

How does a completely substanceless comment by an AC get to a 5 informative?

an AC thinks the interface is very sleek, and that is enough to save the phone the riducule? wtf mods?
Here's the summary of AC's post:

application interface is pretty good
it does do a good job
current version of OS do not provide support for SQL-CE DB or multi-tasking or even copy & paste .net provides pretty good infrastructureto concoct a rudimentary in-memory db
Other things would have been really useful
Despite these deficiencies I think, this is a pretty good OS

In a world dominated by iPhone and it's mighty App Store, Android and it's openness and Blackberry and it's enterprise qualities, in your opinion a "pretty good" phone from Microsoft is a contender?
This is why young people don't take slashdot seriously anymore.

Microsoft's employee motivation strategy

[Anonymous Coward]

You didn't read the fine print. Productive employees will be given a WP7, the waste of space employees will be given TWO WP7s.

But...

[Anonymous Coward]

can it run Linux?

Coincidentally

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

Coincidentally, this will give a marvelous boost to their initial sales figures.

Preloads

[lwriemen]

Watch out for every Windows PC coming preloaded with a Windows 7 mobile phone. I would put a smiley, but based on Microsoft's history ...

It worked for bing

[nurb432]

They padded the numbers by making all searches on their pages as a 'bing search' so as to pad the acceptance numbers.

+1, informative!

[Anonymous Coward]

hey! I learned something today! Time to go home...

Can I get a tin foil hat with that?

[eegad]

Hmm... an employer "gives" employees a gps-enabled device with audio and video recording equipment inside. Sure. Why don't you just staple a plastic tag through their ears too?

Biased summary and posters

[recoiledsnake]

Please don't try to inject reason into what's essentially a 'hate on M$' session.

Do NOT, I repeat DO NOT mention that Apple spent $12M to give free iPhones to all their employees. It will be just too much for the cognitive dissonance on here. http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/28/jobs-pulls-an-oprah-12m-in-iphones-for-all-apple-employees/

Just like iPhone then

[recoiledsnake]

http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/28/jobs-pulls-an-oprah-12m-in-iphones-for-all-apple-employees/

the irony ...

[da5idnetlimit.com]

"I particularly enjoyed the way you seem to know much more about what is good for the company than the trained accountants whose job it is to know these things better than anyone else."

FYI, trained accountants knows what is better for the ACCOUNTS.
If they knew what was good for the company they would be ... managers ? on the Board ? not at accounting...

BTW, how often do you consult your own accountant about your morale ?

Re:the irony ...

[TheVelvetFlamebait]

FYI, trained accountants knows what is better for the ACCOUNTS.
If they knew what was good for the company they would be ... managers ? on the Board ? not at accounting...

So, what you're saying is that I'm wrong when I say that the accountants at Microsoft have more of an idea of what's financially good for the company than what I can, at best, assume is a random disgruntled employee of Microsoft? Just checking.

BTW, how often do you consult your own accountant about your morale ?

Several times per second. I'll leave you to figure that one out.

Wrong titles

[hobbestcat]

They are called Microserfs not Microsofties. Microsofties are little tiny ShamWows.

Voice mail

[Anonymous Coward]

He mentioned voice mail three hours before you posted.

First day Win Phone 7 Sales...

[Anonymous Coward]

90,000.

Sometime in the future

[MadGeek007]

Microsoft reports that 90,000 Windows Phone 7 devices have have been used during the first week they were sold.

Made available, not necessarily free

[Anonymous Coward]

The internal email actual merely said a Win7 phone would be made available to every (FT) employee.
It didnt actually say it would be given for free...

Ballmer doesn't know what he's talking about ...

[tomhudson]

Ballmer doesn't know what he's talking about ... but that's nothing new.

Because if someone is using something like a Nokia 7020 it might be nice to get a smartphone. I didn't have a smartphone under my employer "gave" me one. (No, I don't work for MS)

Fact: 20% of Microsoft employees have an iPhone. They could have bought a Win-based phone, but chose not to. Why would they switch? Because it's free? Here - I've got an old Stinkpad that I'll give you for free if you switch from whatever you're using now.

Then again, like always, Ballmer doesn't know what he's talking about

"There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance," said Ballmer. "It's a $500 subsidized item. They may make a lot of money. But if you actually take a look at the 1.3 billion phones that get sold, I'd prefer to have our software in 60% or 70% or 80% of them, than I would to have 2% or 3%, which is what Apple might get."

Guess who is quickly rushing to the bottom to be the new 2-percenter. Hint - it's not Apple or Android or RIM or Palm. Of those, Microsoft is only ahead of Palm in new sales, and that will change once HP does their thing. HP has great corporate presence, as well as heavy lines into consumer sales (that comes from selling a lot of laptops and printers through retailers). Microsoft will be out of the mobile market in 2012, when their new market sales, already under 8% , drop below 1%.

How many lemmings queued up overnight to buy the first iPhone? People were willing to go first-gen (with their own nickel) go get a nifty smartphone. I'm sure many would be more than willing with someone else's nickel.

And we called them lemmings - it's not the same as being not so subtly forced to use a crappy, already-outdated-before-its-even-released POS like WP7 when you have something better.

kick ass excuse to not work.

[bronney]

Oh sorry, oh you called? Oh Sorry it didn't ring. I guess it hanged again. Oh yeah I get my emails on that too but it hanged so I couldn't get in touch with you. lol. I can't wait.

Out of thanks?

[DaVince21]

the idea is to thank employees for all their work

You mean the idea is to have less employees use a certain competitor's phone.