Indian Police Using Facebook to Catch Scofflaw Drivers

ah this will be fun by Dyinobal · 2010-08-02 03:07 · Score: 3, Insightful

Just make a copy of a government officials plate put it on your car and runs some red lights while a friend takes pictures to post.

Re:ah this will be fun by Jeng · 2010-08-02 03:09 · Score: 1

Photoshop would be easier.

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Re:ah this will be fun by The+MAZZTer · 2010-08-02 03:11 · Score: 1

Yeah, unless you have the same car model and color as the gov't official this won't work.
Re:ah this will be fun by Peter+Mork · 2010-08-02 03:21 · Score: 5, Interesting

This type of shenanigan is already being done in Montgomery County (Maryland). High school students first find a teacher that owns a vehicle that resembles one they own. They then print out a fake license plate, tape it over their own license plate, and blow through a speed camera at a high velocity. It shouldn't take long for Indians to replicate this game.
Re:ah this will be fun by BangaIorean · 2010-08-02 03:24 · Score: 2, Insightful

You'd need the same make of car, same color, same dents and bruises on the car body (if any), and so on. I doubt if traffic violators would bother to take the trouble.
Stuff like this is the only way to get indisciplined Indian drivers to fall in line. In Indian cities like New Delhi, Bangalore and Mumbai around 1000 new vehicles are added on the road EVERYDAY (and that's in each city). Imagine the tremendous pressure on the cops to maintain order. Given the statistics, it's a wonder that traffic even runs normally on the roads!! I am all for this extremely innovative use of tech.
Re:ah this will be fun by socz · 2010-08-02 03:41 · Score: 0, Flamebait

I think your easy fix solution to a very difficult problem might not work!

I, like others, believe it's a cultural issue. Living in Los Angeles, we live with many people - from all over the world! One thing my friends have told me is that "certain orientals feel they have the right of way." It's a cultural thing, where they don't have to give the right of way to someone else. This is why, for example, yesterday pulling into a parking lot with a woman walking in the middle of my lane kept walking even when she saw me. She felt no need to move to the side. As a matter of fact, it would have seemed like she WANTED me to stop, but of course that was not the case.

Most people would move out of the way of a moving vehicle, but not all. This is also demonstrated by a car a day earlier, who cuts off all FAST moving traffic while practically stopping after making a left turn. This is also why insurance rates are also extremely expensive where I live and cheaper the further east you go.

Like I tell everyone, people in Mexico don't really respect 'traffic guide lines' (I don't call them laws because in theory, people respect the law). But it works for them, because everyone has the same mentality (and if you don't, you'll hear about it REAL QUICK and hopefully learn to "go with the flow"). But here, we have both people who follow the law, those who break it knowingly, and the rest who just don't care because they believe they have the right to do what they like. And that's why we have so many problems HERE.

So, if you think giving tickets in India is going to fix the problem, then we should start fining 'terrorists' in Afghanistan, because that'll surely solve that issue.

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My abilities are only limited by my imagination
Re:ah this will be fun by jgagnon · 2010-08-02 03:51 · Score: 1

Bonus grades for creativity?

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Re:ah this will be fun by gnasher719 · 2010-08-02 04:10 · Score: 1

Just make a copy of a government officials plate put it on your car and runs some red lights while a friend takes pictures to post.
When you think the police anywhere is just a bunch of idiots, that is called "projection".
Re:ah this will be fun by BangaIorean · 2010-08-02 04:13 · Score: 4, Insightful

"I think your easy fix solution to a very difficult problem might not work!"
It does work. I drive almost 54 kilometers daily in Bangalore, and I have seen the result of the traffic police's punitive drives. One can literally see a difference. Your argument essentially is on the lines of, 'Orientals' are culturally disposed towards rule breaking, and Afghans are culturally disposed towards terrorism. I call BS. Singapore is full of 'orientals' too - in fact, one in three Singaporeans is a first generation Indian. Singapore traffic and discipline is much better than the US. What about Japan? Taiwan? South Korea? In India too, various cities have different levels of traffic indiscipline - how would you explain that?
Re:ah this will be fun by Kitkoan · 2010-08-02 06:16 · Score: 3, Informative

For those curious, here is the article about that. 2

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Re:ah this will be fun by socz · 2010-08-02 07:06 · Score: 1, Insightful

Now, before anyone thinks of getting upset at me, let me point out that Chinese, Vietnamese, Loation, Pakistani and Indian people have all told me the same thing.

Ok,so let me put it this way: we have a LOT of speed traps here because we have some pretty cool roads to drive on. Even though we see people pulled over EVERY DAY, that doesn't convince enough of the driving population to actually drive 35 or 40 MPH. Or even slow down in front of the school zone marked area with 2 motorcycle cops (whose primary duties are to give out tickets).

On another note, I honestly, honestly, don't know of many other places that have as much diversity as we have here in Los Angeles and in New York (for example), and that language is a huge barrier. Remember, in North America, we have a total of 3 "main" languages, English, Spanish & French. Most people don't care to learn more than 1 unfortunately. So when you go to the DMV (Department of Motor Vehicles), you can take your DMV test to obtain your driving license in probably over 20 languages. Now, the main argument people make (I call them racists) as to why it should only be in English, is because it's great they can pass a test, but if they can't understand the signs such as "School Zone" then they shouldn't be driving.

Now, I'm GUESSING, but most in Signapore are going to be local. As much of those in India are. So driving shouldn't be as much of an issue as they understand the "local driving." But mix in those who are locals, with those who aren't and it gets pretty crazy. I literally pay twice as much in insurance by living in the L.A. area than if I live 30 mins away (which is about 35 miles). Why is this? Well, for those of you local, you'll know about the City of Monterey Park. I don't think anyone who is honest will say the contrary.

But if what is going on is working, than good for you! I hope it gets as good as it can. But with the #1, #2, and #3 police departments in the state that give the most tickets, with all the cameras that take your pictures in intersections when you run the light or make illegal turns, and even with traffic officers, it's not that much better.

So you can see where I'm coming from, a street I used to cross now has a stop light and intersection where it just used to be a pedestrian crossing. You would think that's good right? And I agree. But the reason it was put there was because too many people kept running over kids. Yep, I could have been one. But the traffic signal hasn't STOPPED the problem. In other places speed bumps have been introduced, but THAT hasn't stopped their problems too.

And finally, where you say: "Your argument essentially is on the lines of, 'Orientals' are culturally disposed towards rule breaking," that's incorrect. My argument is that "Orientals," as told to me by themselves (Asians including Pakistanies), "Have a feeling of entitlement. Such as driving and cutting others off or driving as if they are alone on the road so they go extremely slow and create dangerous situations." This isn't without saying that only THEY do this. But like I tell people, sometimes stereo types exist for a reason. And when you call BS, please read my sig.

Oh and just to touch on the Afghans being terrorists... a lot of people confused my Pakistani friends (family really) as terrorists after 9/11. They were scared and started carrying bats in their cars in case they had to defend themselves. One experience they had with a family member was they were surrounded in their car and had their windows bashed out. Why? Because they "looked the way they did." Another story is they started putting up all kinds of things they *thought* might help them escape similar situations by putting american flags and stickers on their cars. So no, I don't think like everyone else as I grew up knowing many families from that area of the world. A lot of them we helped out because they were decent people and hard workers. And when we've needed help, they did the same.

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My abilities are only limited by my imagination
Re:ah this will be fun by Anonymous Coward · 2010-08-02 07:38 · Score: 1, Insightful

Singapore is full of 'orientals' too - in fact, one in three Singaporeans is a first generation Indian. Singapore traffic and discipline is much better than the US.
Well, DUH. "He'll just wait for me" works perfectly fine when the other driver is placidly thinking "I'll just wait for her". And from one car's driver to another, that doesn't actually work half bad, if you weren't in a hurry.
When it causes problems is when some pedestrian thinks for some reason that they have the same status in this arrangement as all of the cars do. That works really great for the pedestrian until somebody can't stop, or doesn't see them in time, at which point the moron on foot discovers that only the insurance companies care about who is at fault... in an accident between a pedestrian and a car, the pedestrian loses by default.
Re:ah this will be fun by Monchanger · 2010-08-02 07:52 · Score: 1

It would work great except for the fact that you don't even need an alibi to contest the ticket- reasonable doubt will more than do the trick. I doubt Maryland courts too stupid to realize that contested tickets from the camera right outside the school are common among school staff & parents and that it's probably one of the kids in the class. Or one of their friends stupid enough to risk framing a teacher. And if a cop sitting outside the school notices you driving with a fake plate you can kiss the license you just got goodbye.
I keep seeing this thing posted on Slashdot as if it's a serious problem. But this isn't news, nor is it anywhere near foolproof enough to make it commonplace in a student body. What's the first thing cops on TV ask victims? "Do you have any enemies who would do this?"- HS kids know this and will figure out it's a bad idea. This doesn't come close to the problem of kids shoplifting, and posting about it isn't the best way to argue that traffic cameras are a violation of privacy rights, which seems far too common.
Re:ah this will be fun by socz · 2010-08-02 08:18 · Score: 1

Last night on my way home, something similar to that almost happened! So I'm at a 4 way stop, I want to turn right. The car on the right wants to go straight (straight to my left side). So a guy with his family walks into the cross walk without even looking at me.

Just to avoid some confusion, the car that wanted to go straight had just let another car go. So they were JUST ABOUT to move when this guy stepped in. I was about to go to because in my mind, "I'd rather let the cars go and wait 5 seconds than making the cars wait 30 seconds and possible upset them and hit someone as they speed by us." But then again, not everyone is very considerate.

It's really amazing to me (though it shouldn't be) how people don't take care of their family. I can understand when they're alone, but with wife and small children??

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My abilities are only limited by my imagination
Re:ah this will be fun by operagost · 2010-08-02 08:24 · Score: 1

It would work great except for the fact that you don't even need an alibi to contest the ticket- reasonable doubt will more than do the trick.

Really? The red light cameras wouldn't generate the needed revenue if they allowed a silly thing like due process.

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Re:ah this will be fun by Monchanger · 2010-08-02 09:08 · Score: 1

Nope.
You don't contest the tickets with the money grubbing rent-a-cop corporation. You do that in court before a real judge like plenty of people already have. Sure the ticket vendor won't stop issuing false tickets (which it really has no way of detecting short of more expensive car identification technology. Would you rather have a transmitter with a unique ID installed in your car?), but they're not responsible for challenges (so get your local officials to fine them for false positives). A judge who isn't payed per violation does.
It's convenient to not bother thinking the situation through and just complaining about government. Fact is, excess revenue from this system happens for two reasons:
1) People actually break the law.
2) Even when they haven't, they've neither the smarts nor balls to challenge it.
Clearly, both are big bad local government's fault.
Re:ah this will be fun by mrmeval · 2010-08-02 09:43 · Score: 1

It's marvelous. In Indiana if you're a government employee and you get a ticket for speeding and several other infractions you lose the car. You can lose the car for other reasons such as moral turpitude so please try to catch a gov't vehicle (non-police) at a bar, titty bar, massage parlor or any other place of ill repute.

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Re:ah this will be fun by Anonymous Coward · 2010-08-02 12:58 · Score: 0

uhh no...
When your girlfriend is cheating on you but always worries/accuses you of cheating on her, that is called "projection"
not what you said.....
Re:ah this will be fun by Agyani · 2010-08-02 19:39 · Score: 2, Insightful

The only way you explain that is because, in India (I live here) in the end people just say "everything goes" they don't care about anything more then themselves. This selfish attitude as well as bad time management is the cause of all the traffic problem. Take for example, the roads will be free till 8.00am but by 9.00am when mostly everyone should be in office, you will find the road is congested like it was this way forever (at least in Delhi and NCR region) Stop getting worked up because someone calls us (Indians) the way they are, the fact is we have created a mess and we should be humble to accept it instead of talking about being Orientals.
Re:ah this will be fun by BangaIorean · 2010-08-02 20:23 · Score: 1

Not that I didn't accept it, read my posts above. But I have a strong feeling you didn't understand what this entire 'oriental' discussion is about. Either you didn't read what's written, OR you were unable to comprehend.
Can you let me know what you understand from the Grandparent's post?
Re:ah this will be fun by socz · 2010-08-03 03:10 · Score: 1

Actually, I think you can't understand since you don't live *here.* I didn't mean to offend, really... and to most people here, oriental means chinese, vietnamese, japanese etc... (Because they don't know who "orientals" really consist of.

So no offense meant to you. In talking with a co-worker yesterday, he said this to all of this:

It's like in mexico, if you try to make a complete stop, the person behind you will probably hit you because no one really stops at a stop sign, they just roll through it.

That's just how it is there, laws are guidelines and most people don't respect them - which is fine. Because everyone has an understanding of this. Now, if everyone did respect, it would be MUCH better. But it's a cultural issue now. I always tell people, the Aztecs had been around for thousands of years. Their city was constructed without cars or transportation in mind. They didn't have horses or donkeys. Now mexico city is one of the cities on earth that has most cars in the world. So all that adds up and contributes to the problem. And in case you didn't know, in mexico, you can't drive everyday, depending on what your license plate ends in, is what days you can drive (that's the last i heard of that anyways, i'm sure someone will correct me if i'm mistaken).

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My abilities are only limited by my imagination

Deputies by Anonymous Coward · 2010-08-02 03:08 · Score: 0

The lot of them.

In America by qoncept · 2010-08-02 03:08 · Score: 3, Funny

There are photos of people on motorcycles without helmets, cars stopped in crosswalks, drivers on cellphones, drivers in the middle of illegal turns and improperly parked vehicles.

I can't even imagine seeing all that!

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Whale

Re:In America by Lumpy · 2010-08-02 03:47 · Score: 1

dude I saw all that at the same time on my drive into work today...
add to that, 2nd motorcyclist on the sidewalk going around traffic, car not stopping for pedestrian (yes that's a law here) and a Semi truck in a no trucks zone.
This is life in a tiny 150,000-225,000 town in the midwest... In NYC I bet I can get 50 laws visibly violated in a single photograph os an intersection.

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Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Re:In America by GlowinOrb · 2010-08-02 03:51 · Score: 1

Are you blind?
Re:In America by powerlord · 2010-08-02 03:54 · Score: 1

There are photos of people on motorcycles without helmets, cars stopped in crosswalks, drivers on cellphones, drivers in the middle of illegal turns and improperly parked vehicles.
I can't even imagine seeing all that!
Hmmm, and here I saw all of that on the way to work this morning.

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Re:In America by Anonymous Coward · 2010-08-02 04:22 · Score: 0

I wouldn't be surprised to see all that in one picture.

Drivers using their cellphones... by Fishead · 2010-08-02 03:08 · Score: 3, Funny

What about pictures of drivers using their cellphones to take pictures of drivers using their cellphones to get first post on Slashdot?

Re:Drivers using their cellphones... by jgagnon · 2010-08-02 03:54 · Score: 1

That needs to be clearly spelled out in a law.

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Remember to maintain your supply of /facepalm oil to prevent chafing.
Re:Drivers using their cellphones... by Arthur+Grumbine · 2010-08-02 04:01 · Score: 3, Funny

Yo dawg, I heard you liked bad drivers so we've instituted a new policy to encourage bad driving to catch bad drivers who are trying to catch other bad drivers.

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Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure everything I just said is completely wrong.
Re:Drivers using their cellphones... by rainmouse · 2010-08-02 04:01 · Score: 1

What about pictures of drivers using their cellphones to take pictures of drivers using their cellphones to get first post on Slashdot?
You are allowed to use hands free phones while driving.
You are also allowed to use hands free cameras. http://gadgets.boingboing.net/handsfree.jpg

Good idea but I see too much chance for abuse by g0bshiTe · 2010-08-02 03:14 · Score: 1

Who is to say that people won't photograph someones vehicle that they don't like and photoshop it into a situation that it doesn't belong in? What kinds of safeguards do they have in place to prevent that type of abuse? And would it be possible for someone to beat the accusation by claiming it was a photoshoped photo?

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Re:Good idea but I see too much chance for abuse by Tom · 2010-08-02 03:17 · Score: 2, Insightful

Because everything is bad if there is the theoretical possibility that it could potentially be abused?
So, logically, you should shut down your firewall and disable the virus scanner. There's a chance they might not help. And they diminish the performance. Someone could even abuse them.
Look, this is what the court system is for. Yes, there will probably be a few abuse cases. The vast majority will be found out quickly and easily, very few people have really good photoshop skills.

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Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Re:Good idea but I see too much chance for abuse by delinear · 2010-08-02 03:23 · Score: 1

This seems like it would be trivially easy to abuse, I can't believe they are actually using this as a basis for sending out tickets to drivers. Fair enough if the whole purpose was a "name and shame" affair but legal action still required evidence from a trusted source (traffic officer, speed camera, etc), but relying on whatever pictures users post to punish other members of the public is asking for trouble.
Re:Good idea but I see too much chance for abuse by Jeng · 2010-08-02 03:24 · Score: 1

The vast majority will be found out quickly and easily, very few people have really good photoshop skills.

So, what safeguards are they employing to make sure that the vast majority of abuse cases would be found out quickly and easily?

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Re:Good idea but I see too much chance for abuse by leuk_he · 2010-08-02 03:26 · Score: 1

Eeeuh, you can go to the police now and accuse people of the worst crimes you can imagine. The accused will be taken in for questioning. After that YOU will be taken in for questioning.
This is not much differenf in facebook. You are traceable after all, also a posting made on facebook is not anonymous. And facebook, of all websites, does not care much about your privacy and will turn over your data in a whim to the police.
Re:Good idea but I see too much chance for abuse by TheCarp · 2010-08-02 03:40 · Score: 0

Um no. There is huge difference here. In one case (the firewall) I am junking traffic sent by others, to my machine. I reject it at my machine. I am not rejecting traffic thats not destined for me. I am just deciding what can come through my network connection to my machine. If I want to allow no packets at all, thats all on me.
This system is another story. This is the system for determining who should be fined by the government. Often that fine goes along with other penalties, who might lose their license. Who might have wages garnished or be thrown in jail. We are talking about using the machinery of the state to harass and abuse a person into compliance.
Its one thing to filter packets to my own machine, which may or may not help. Worst case is, I, the person who made the decision, doesn't get packets that I want. In the other case, someone decides to put fake pictures up, a third party is being encouraged to use harassment and violence against someone. I don't see how you equate them AT ALL.
In short, arbitrary rules and even bad ones are fine when there are no real world consequences for other people, but, even a small window of opportunity for abuse in a system with real world physical and financial consequences for people other than the abuser should NEVER be based on anything so easily abused.
Its better to let infinite numbers of the guilty go free than to allow even a handful of the innocent to be punished.
-Steve

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Re:Good idea but I see too much chance for abuse by nospam007 · 2010-08-02 03:41 · Score: 2, Interesting

"Yes, there will probably be a few abuse cases. The vast majority will be found out quickly and easily, very few people have really good photoshop skills."
You don't need much to waste a civil servant's time. Just thousand of false positives and images with cars in it.
Re:Good idea but I see too much chance for abuse by Anonymous Coward · 2010-08-02 05:50 · Score: 0

This isn't as practical in the US. If you snap a picture of me breaking the law and I go to court the picture taker might potentially need to go to show up in court also.
The sixth amendment guarantees my right to be faced by my accuser, the picture taker. Because of this, the police won't be able to act on photos without reliable information on who the photo taker is.
Who would fake a photo of a law breaker knowing that they will also need to go to court and face the person they're trying to set up? When the fake pictures status is know they'll be arrested for lying under oath, making a false statement to police, etc.
On top of all of that. Who would want the hassle of taking time off work to defend a picture they took of someone violating a traffic law?
This is no different than me witnessing a crime and making a "citizens arrest". Yes I can do this, Its legal under the "powers of arrest", but am I going to do it knowing the hassles it will cause me?
Re:Good idea but I see too much chance for abuse by zmollusc · 2010-08-02 05:55 · Score: 1

Duh! Rich people can afford lawyers who will get photoshopped or suspected photoshopped pictures thrown out of court. Fuck poor people.

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They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.
Re:Good idea but I see too much chance for abuse by Kitkoan · 2010-08-02 06:30 · Score: 1

Because everything is bad if there is the theoretical possibility that it could potentially be abused?
In this case, yes. And it doesn't always need Photoshop to cause havok. This kind of thing has been done before 1 2. The difference here is that the person is the one to make the photo from any angle instead of the single angle that the speed camera takes. You can make a faked violation and then send the photo to the website and they get the fines. And I can easily see people doing to people they don't like (others have done worse). In the end, if something can be potentially abused you have to take that into consideration and try to implement safeguards against it. Otherwise if you don't, someone will be more then happen to abuse it and others will join when they see just how easy and non-traceable it can be.

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Re:Good idea but I see too much chance for abuse by sirdude · 2010-08-02 07:10 · Score: 1

From the Delhi Police Facebook page: "Uploading of Fake/Morphed Photo: When it is found that a member has uploaded fake / morphed photo, DTP will take legal action with the help of Cyber Crime Cell - Delhi Police, Inernet/Telecom Service Provider, Facebook (Now they have a office in India), under IT Act. Members are warned not to attempt any misadventure on this account as we take this act very seriously."
Re:Good idea but I see too much chance for abuse by Anonymous Coward · 2010-08-02 08:14 · Score: 0

The vast majority will be found out quickly and easily
If it’s really a vast majority, it will be neither quick nor easy to deal with. Even if most of the fakes are obvious you could still waste hundreds of hours screening them out.

very few people have really good photoshop skills
How many people with really good photoshop skills would it take to seriously screw up the system? For that matter, how many people with really bad photoshop skills does it take to seriously screw up the system?
It reminds me of the traffic law that allowed you to get a lawyer and have your moving violation (e.g. speeding ticket) reduced to a non-moving violation, for about double what the original moving violation would have cost. Originally it was intended to keep insurance companies from screwing over people who got moving violations, since a non-moving violation won’t make your insurance premiums go up. But some principled politician decided that moving violations shouldn’t be reduced to non-moving ones ever, for any reason, and they got the law changed so that you couldn’t any more. Problem: getting a ticket reduced was a simple, painless process. Your lawyer goes to court, it gets rubber-stamped, you pay the lawyer. So now that they took away that, guess what? All the lawyers (who were making lots of money off this arrangement, naturally) decided to simply contest all of the cases since they couldn’t have them reduced any more. Instead of going to court and getting a rubber-stamp reduction, now the courts were hopelessly clogged with months worth of backlogged cases being contested. Great idea.
Re:Good idea but I see too much chance for abuse by Tom · 2010-08-02 18:03 · Score: 1

If it's really a vast majority, it will be neither quick nor easy to deal with.
Understanding references and contexts is not something they teach anymore, do they?
The vast majority of something may be quite small if the population size is small. If there are 50 fakes, 48 of them would be "the vast majority". Likewise, if there are 6 fakes, 5 of them. Or if there are 5000 fakes, 4800 of them. "Majority" is a relative size, not an absolute.

How many people with really good photoshop skills would it take to seriously screw up the system? For that matter, how many people with really bad photoshop skills does it take to seriously screw up the system?
If they have the manpower to go through the photos reading licence plates, then they have the manpower to sort out the obvious photoshopped ones.
As for the others - we already have a court system that can deal with things like that. Do you really think no eye witness ever misremembers a license plate? Or no license plate was ever dirty in a way that made it look like a different number (say, the W looked like a V)?
These things happen. With large enough base numbers (and India is pretty large, four times the population of the USA) the unlikely becomes common.
It doesn't take photoshop to create imperfections, you know?

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Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Re:Good idea but I see too much chance for abuse by Tom · 2010-08-02 18:05 · Score: 1

You don't need much to waste a civil servant's time. Just thousand of false positives and images with cars in it.
They apparently have the time to manually go through all the photos looking for the license plate numbers. How much additional time does it take to sort out the obvious fakes? One second each?

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Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org

Oh god no by ZeroExistenZ · 2010-08-02 03:16 · Score: 3, Interesting

They opensourced policing!

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I think we can keep recursing like this until someone returns 1

gross by Anonymous Coward · 2010-08-02 03:22 · Score: 0

It will be a wild ride when we start reporting each other here in the good old USA.

Which is worse..... by adeft · 2010-08-02 03:24 · Score: 1

I assume the majority of these uploaded photos are from other drivers? How is it more dangerous to speak on a cell phone while driving than it is to take a picture of someone while driving. Take a picture of that and get two birds with one stone?

I did this after my last ticket... by 2obvious4u · 2010-08-02 03:25 · Score: 1, Interesting

I has stopped in traffic and got a speeding ticket. I was so upset that I started a log of all the police I caught breaking traffic laws. I started calling 911 and their supervisors whenever I caught one doing over 90 MPH traveling out of county. I had about 4 pages full of incidents in my log book before my court date. I even thought about getting front and rear dash cams in my car (still wish I had those I watched a car slam into the guard rail and roll 3 times in my review mirror the other day on the way home). Didn't need to use the logs because the ticket got thrown out.

Re:I did this after my last ticket... by FinchWorld · 2010-08-02 03:32 · Score: 2, Insightful

Thats quite lucky, judges take a dim view of people trying to pin something on the police. Remember, the police cannot be seen to do wrong, else no one will respect them, or so judges rule anyway.
And in anycase, your defence seems to admit you were speeding, but thats ok because other people do, those other people aren't the ones being charged though. If you were in traffic whilst speeding the only real defence I know that has worked was the "Keeping with the flow of traffic" as to avoid wild overtaking by other people and some such.
However, I am not a lawyer.

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"I may be full of crap about this game, and I may be wrong, and that's fine." -Jack Thompson
Re:I did this after my last ticket... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-08-02 03:36 · Score: 0

This sounds like something a 12 year old with a chip on his shoulder would do. Do you go around pointing the blame at others for all the failures in your life too? You seriously need some kind of professional help.
Re:I did this after my last ticket... by 2obvious4u · 2010-08-02 03:53 · Score: 1

Only Hypocrisy. You can be a sheep if you want, but some laws are horrible and/or horribly enforced. Most Interstate speed limits are set to low, and speed traps are for generating revenue, not for public safety. If they wanted safer traffic they would be ticketing tailgaters and weavers.
Re:I did this after my last ticket... by frodo+from+middle+ea · 2010-08-02 03:55 · Score: 1

This sounds like something a 12 year old with a chip on his shoulder would do. Do you go around pointing the blame at others for all the failures in your life too? You seriously need some kind of professional help.
Well Steve Jobs did it too. Now what does it say about his mental age ?

--
for the last time people, I am "frodo from middle eaRTH", not "middle eaST".
Re:I did this after my last ticket... by socz · 2010-08-02 03:56 · Score: 1

You were very lucky! When law enforcement officials have "ask us questions" day, I asked why can police officers drive AND talk on cell phones while we, non law enforcement can't? They said:

Law enforcement can drive and use the cell phone for work related reasons. For example, sometimes it's easier to communicate with someone over their cell phone than through the radio. It's also possible that they're getting information about....

When asked, "but I saw one in particular laughing it up. That couldn't have been someone in need?" "Well, it could be he was talking to another officer and they shared a story about something funny that happened" was the response.

But what YOU need to realize, besides (Who watches the watchmen), is that they do not like and will not tolerate your mentality. Just last week there was a story about a dude who was pulled over with a cam and it all went south for him. While working at a fast food joint many years ago, I used to see the Sheriffs drag race from light to light. But who's going to say anything? (Meaning, you'll have more problems than it's worth to most).

On a side note, I do go out of my way to stand up for what I believe in. A long while back, I had a pretty cool car in yellow. So, a Sheriff decided to follow me. That wasn't a problem, but after a while, it became annoying. My friend who was with me said I was paranoid, but I knew better as I took all back streets and most, even them, don't take those streets. I knew they had NOTHING on me, so there was no need for this harassment. After my plates came back they should have go on about their business. So, I pull into their station. When I parked, they pulled their cruiser up on my ass. Having my cajones well placed, I stepped out and so did the Sheriff. I asked "Is there a problem, officer?" He replied: "did I pull you over?" So I just smiled and walked into his station while he just stood there like an a-hole and stared me down. I could feel the tension, it was exciting! (I was majoring in Political Science at the time and wasn't oblivious of my rights). So I walked in and reported to the on duty supervisor that I wanted to complain. They asked about what, and I explained. So they told me to wait a min until they were available. Big surprise that they never showed up right?

Now what was the point of all that? Well, that's a story for another day!

--
My abilities are only limited by my imagination
Re:I did this after my last ticket... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-08-02 03:58 · Score: 0

Sadly, in the US (Illinois specifically), it is ILLEGAL to record cops. At any time and for any reason. No matter how illegal their actions ... YOU will be the one thrown in jail. No joke. Fucking ridiculous...
Re:I did this after my last ticket... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-08-02 04:11 · Score: 1, Insightful

And in anycase, your defence seems to admit you were speeding,
Ummm, no. The guy said:
"I has stopped in traffic and got a speeding ticket."
(I presume he means I was stopped in traffic)
At no point did he say he was exceeding the speed limit. Later on he says:
"the ticket got thrown out."
This guy was clearly pissed that he got a ticket, however the facts of the case aren't clear, aside from the fact that he didn't confess in his post.
Re:I did this after my last ticket... by chinakow · 2010-08-02 04:47 · Score: 3, Insightful

Who gives a shit what others where doing? Where you speeding or not? If yes, you are guilty of speeding, if no, then why the hell do you care what other people are doing? A ticket doesn't say you where the only one breaking the law, it says you where caught. Grow a pair and pay the ticket. If you still have that chip on your shoulder, then by all means, call in the police who break the law. You are still entitled to being an ass. Just don't blame others for the you own actions.
Also, Tu quoque. I linked it so you could get an edumacation. This is why the judge would laugh at your log book as a defense.
Re:I did this after my last ticket... by witherstaff · 2010-08-02 05:10 · Score: 1

You know that is a good facebook group idea right there. Or more likely a web page that doesn't involve having to use your real name.
Re:I did this after my last ticket... by 2obvious4u · 2010-08-02 05:16 · Score: 1

Yeah the "has" was a "was" typo. In that case I wasn't speeding and pulled google maps to show where the officer was and where I was stopped in traffic and how I could not have been speeding since I was stopped in traffic. The officer after writing my ticket pulled back into the stopped traffic and pulled someone else over, it was total BS. But what can you do? Nothing, they are the boys in Blue.

Over memorial day weekend I got a speeding ticket where I was actually speeding and I just wrote a check and mailed it in. I do speed a lot if I'm actually speeding I pay the fine. I normally do 84 in a 70 because we have "super speeder" fines in my state. Basically 15 over and you get hit with a big fine. The state troopers ignore the non super speeders because there are to many of those and it costs to much to prosecute them. My memorial day ticket I wasn't in my normal commute area where I know all the speed traps and didn't notice that the speed dropped to 55. The officer was polite and didn't hit me with the super speeder so I counted my blessings and just paid the fine. I've been driving for about 20 years and I get about 1 ticket every year or every other year. They are infrequent enough that the points don't stay on my license and the time I save on my commute daily is worth the extra $80 ever other year.
Re:I did this after my last ticket... by system1111 · 2010-08-02 06:12 · Score: 1

pretty sure cops go faster than traffic purposely not to cause traffic jams / accidents on the highway.. People often drive much slower/stupider (paying more attention to the cop rather than the road in general) than required when a cop just sits in the lane next to them.
Re:I did this after my last ticket... by dwinks616 · 2010-08-02 06:32 · Score: 1

Tailgaters and weavers wouldn't exist if everyone was doing the speed limit...
Re:I did this after my last ticket... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-08-02 06:48 · Score: 0

You weren't speeding where you were pulled over. Were you speeding ten miles back? Was traffic stopped due to construction, and two miles back you'd not noticed the 45 MPH temporary limit? An officer on an overpass might have been radioing descriptions to the officer which you saw. If you'd gotten the officer's full story in court you might have discovered whether the error was his or yours.
Re:I did this after my last ticket... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-08-02 07:01 · Score: 0

A while ago, a popular magazine did a comparison of the police-model cars from major manufacturers. This involved a lot of driving on public roads in cars with generic "POLICE" paint and top-mounted lights. Several times each hour the reporters would pull off the freeway so the accumulated backlog of traffic could go past. Incidentally, a few times they did chat with local deputies who were wondering what business they had with a police car without recognizable agency markings.
Re:I did this after my last ticket... by spamking · 2010-08-02 07:21 · Score: 1

And if those freakin' slowpokes would get out of the left lane and let the rest of us by . . . quit camping out in the left lane just because you are going the speed limit.
Re:I did this after my last ticket... by clone53421 · 2010-08-02 08:18 · Score: 1

A bit hard to be speeding while you are “stopped in traffic”.

--
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
Re:I did this after my last ticket... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-08-02 08:38 · Score: 0

Now what was the point of all that? Well, that's a story for another day!
Oh come on!
Re:I did this after my last ticket... by VJ42 · 2010-08-03 00:54 · Score: 1

Sadly, in the US (Illinois specifically), it is ILLEGAL to record cops. At any time and for any reason. No matter how illegal their actions ... YOU will be the one thrown in jail. No joke. Fucking ridiculous...
If true, then this is retarded. If not the citizenry, then Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

--
If I have nothing to hide, you have no reason to search me

Quit snitchin' by AndyAndyAndyAndy · 2010-08-02 03:27 · Score: 1

The Quit Snitchin' movement takes yet another hit.

--
It's always confirmation bias!

Slippery Slope by gbrandt · 2010-08-02 03:27 · Score: 2, Insightful

That sounds like a very slippery slope.

Re:turn people against one another... by retech · 2010-08-02 03:28 · Score: 4, Insightful

So India is a communist block country now?

And in case you have not heard, people of been reporting their neighbors forever in the US.

stating the obvious.. by spiffmastercow · 2010-08-02 03:29 · Score: 1

Come on, aren't people who photograph other drivers while driving breaking the same law they're supposed to be helping to enforce? And do you really want a bunch of idiots with a license to tweet while driving?

Re:stating the obvious.. by BangaIorean · 2010-08-02 03:32 · Score: 2, Insightful

And why, exactly do you assume that the persons who photograph other drivers should necessarily be drivers? Ever heard of 'pedestrians'? Or maybe, drivers waiting at a red light?
Re:stating the obvious.. by VortexCortex · 2010-08-02 03:43 · Score: 1

And why, exactly do you assume that the persons who photograph other drivers should necessarily be drivers? Ever heard of 'pedestrians'? Or maybe, drivers waiting at a red light?
Or perhaps even passengers?
Re:stating the obvious.. by Lumpy · 2010-08-02 03:50 · Score: 1

Or this very rare thing called......
Passengers....
I know it's a stretch and they are incredibly rare, but I have seen them in the wild....
I actually saw 2 people in a Hummer H2 yesterday! No really! I did!

--
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Re:stating the obvious.. by spiffmastercow · 2010-08-02 03:56 · Score: 1

Um, because a pedestrian's relative velocity does not allow them to whip out a camera and take a picture of a speeder, or even to memorize their license plate?
Re:stating the obvious.. by spiffmastercow · 2010-08-02 03:57 · Score: 1

And also, a driver tweeting at a red light is still a driver not paying attention.
Re:stating the obvious.. by BangaIorean · 2010-08-02 04:02 · Score: 1

"And also, a driver tweeting at a red light is still a driver not paying attention."
But it is NOT illegal (in India at least, it isn't). And well, why talk about just speeding? There are hundreds of other offences that a pedestrian can capture!

Re:snitches.... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-08-02 03:30 · Score: 0

This is actually a pretty damn good ACFP.

Re:turn people against one another... by ZeroExistenZ · 2010-08-02 03:37 · Score: 1

And in case you have not heard, people of been reporting their neighbors forever in the US.

I believe in the US it's because people are selfish and want to fuck eachother over.

In communists countries, people fear imprisonment or "dissapearing", being checked or whatever by not doing your "duty".

Simularly, there are "government informants": say you have a goverenmt informant living in your building, you wont know he or she works for the government, you just see the people "doing crime" being taken away.

I've been in Belarus, the absence of crime was staggering, just by the fact "everybody could be an informant". And not "because everybody doesn't care about others and want to fuck them over". It might sound utopian, but it's control and inducing fear of retaliation.

--
I think we can keep recursing like this until someone returns 1

I'd like to report the cops... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-08-02 03:39 · Score: 0

I live 2 blocks from a police station. I routinely see them driving in to the parking lot in their personal vehicles to start their shift.

However, westbound traffic has to perform an illegal left turn to do so. I've been temped to set up a camera...

Police by tanderson92 · 2010-08-02 03:39 · Score: 1

I can't wait to see pictures/videos of police officers flouting the law, which is what this will surely turn into.

I like it by Anonymous Coward · 2010-08-02 03:40 · Score: 0

This is definitely the sort of thing that the U.S. should emulate. Get rid of the automatic ticket issuing traffic cameras and just issue tickets when citizens actually complain about, and have evidence for, the offending behavior.

Re:turn people against one another... by bhagwad · 2010-08-02 03:42 · Score: 1

They report you on Facebook? Whatever happened to anonymous tattling?

Crowdsourcing by Nushio · 2010-08-02 03:47 · Score: 2, Interesting

Is the term you were looking for, I think.

Crowdsourced police? Sounds similar to those "Neighbors on Watch" signs I see on the streets.

--
Check out Unsealed: Whispers of Wisdom! http://unsealed.k3rnel.net It's an action-RPG about Open Sourcerers.

Re:Crowdsourcing by e4g4 · 2010-08-02 07:22 · Score: 1

My question is whether they untag photos depicting violations by the police department. If they had this in NYC, I'd submit a photo of every cop I see driving while talking on a cell phone (without a hands-free) - I'd be able to submit at least 10 a day.

--
The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. - Albert Einstein

Re:snitches.... by jgagnon · 2010-08-02 03:50 · Score: 1

But that doesn't mean much considering the bar is set so low for AC...

--
Remember to maintain your supply of /facepalm oil to prevent chafing.

A Beastly Ticket by VortexCortex · 2010-08-02 03:53 · Score: 1

[...] the Delhi Traffic Police have issued 665 tickets.

They're saving the very next ticket for Zuckerberg.

Come on, this is a GOOD thing... by BangaIorean · 2010-08-02 03:53 · Score: 1

The potential for misuse is not as great as would appear at first sight. This is a techie forum so guys tend to think from a techie perspective - hence the 'photoshop fear'. Just think, on an average street in any country, how many guys would know how to photoshop images? Hell, even I, being a 'techie' have never bothered to learn photoshopping till date - I'm just not interested.

Among that miniscule minority who actually do know how to 'photoshop' images, how many would actually bother to do something like that? How many would have the time for that? How many would have enemies whom they'd want to get into trouble with the law?

And finally, if there is indeed some jerk who tries to misuse the system, the person who gets the ticket isn't going to sit quiet - he's going to protest. And then, the police will, in case of such a dispute investigate the person who posted the complaint (it's facebook, remember). And after that, the jerk is in BIG trouble. I wouldn't want to be in the shoes of the guy who tried to pull that stunt of framing an innocent man

Re:Come on, this is a GOOD thing... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-08-02 04:28 · Score: 1, Interesting

Oh, well since you don't know photoshop, naturally that means that very, very few people know how to use it. Just because you don't know photoshop clearly means that there is absolutely no potential for misuse of this system. Please don't ever learn photoshop, because if you do, we will all be in a world of trouble.
Re:Come on, this is a GOOD thing... by BangaIorean · 2010-08-02 04:34 · Score: 0, Troll

"Oh, well since you don't know photoshop, naturally that means that very, very few people know how to use it."
I didn't say that - read the complete post next time. Anyway, what's your point? That a majority of people on the street know photoshop? Really? Try this: talk to two random truck drivers, two random shopkeepers, two random cabbies, two random pedestrians and tworandom guys dressed in a business suit. Ask them if they can photoshop images. In a big city in the US you might find one person out of those who answers in the affirmative. In India it'd be more like 1 out of 20 in a big city. Are you disputing this?
Re:Come on, this is a GOOD thing... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-08-02 05:25 · Score: 0

Again, following me around and modding me Troll - really, some people need to grow up. Have you nothing better to do in life, whoever you are?
Re:Come on, this is a GOOD thing... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-08-02 08:21 · Score: 0

And then, the police will, in case of such a dispute investigate the person who posted the complaint (it's facebook, remember).
Because they will, of course, have used their own personal Facebook profile with their home address, phone number, and nice message to the cops "here guys now you know where to find me".
Unthinkable to even consider that someone would register a fake Facebook profile. That's against Facebook's rules, ya know.
Re:Come on, this is a GOOD thing... by BangaIorean · 2010-08-02 15:30 · Score: 1

And you're deluded if you think the police cannot trace someone through facebook. Create a 'false' profile, a 'real' one, whatever. Are you aware that the police have traced terrorist e-mails and made arrests based on the same? The terrorists obviously didn't leave their real home address around, did they?
Re:Come on, this is a GOOD thing... by BangaIorean · 2010-08-02 15:33 · Score: 1

And then, From the Delhi Police Facebook page:
"Uploading of Fake/Morphed Photo: When it is found that a member has uploaded fake / morphed photo, DTP will take legal action with the help of Cyber Crime Cell - Delhi Police, Inernet/Telecom Service Provider, Facebook (Now they have a office in India), under IT Act. Members are warned not to attempt any misadventure on this account as we take this act very seriously."

Hmm. by Anonymous Coward · 2010-08-02 03:56 · Score: 0

To photoshop! :)

Parking brake? Parked my car on the roof? Danger to pedestrians?

Left Arm? Meet Right Arm. by Maarx · 2010-08-02 03:59 · Score: 3, Insightful

I imagine this is going to stop working so well when they turn off everyone's Blackberries next month.

neighbors reporting on you by circletimessquare · 2010-08-02 04:05 · Score: 4, Insightful

is how the ideal society works

it means people are invested in and care about their societies to make sure nobody violates it

you are thinking of east germany, where the state, not average citizens, maintained a network of neighborhood agents to exert control. this is top down control, not bottom up control

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stasi#Stasi_operations

remember when rodney king's beating was videotaped in la in the early '90s? this is "little brother": citizens reporting on injustice, whether done by fellow citizens, or even by the state itself, to maintain their society. it's the ideal. no, it's not "mob rule". the state still exists, and mob justice is not tolerated

perhaps you would prefer the sort of "stop snitching" mentality that goes on in neighborhoods rife with crime. a combination of people not caring about their own communities (and therefore not fighting crime that goes on around them, becoming collaborators in their own misery, out of distrust of the police, deserved or not), and criminals ruling by intimidation and fear to bully witnesses of crimes, results in a hellhole that in my mind, is even worse than east german stasi

--
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it

Re:neighbors reporting on you by horza · 2010-08-02 07:11 · Score: 1

Reminds me of the street poster in Red Dwarf ("Back to Reality"), where they enter a Stasi-like society, which says "INFORM ON YOUR FRIENDS AND FAMILY" and then underneath in smaller letters "win great prizes".
Informing on your neighbours is not how the ideal society works. Talking to your neighbours is how the ideal society works.
Phillip.

--
Property for sale in Nice, France
Re:neighbors reporting on you by xmvince · 2010-08-06 02:54 · Score: 1

Certain laws should not be in place. I agree that people should report violent crimes, but there are many laws that violate one's natural freedom, such as the prohibition of marijuana. If my neighbors reported me for that, it would be very unfair and you have to remember that freedom is more important than anything else. People getting locked up and killed for consuming a natural plant is just draconian.

Photoshop! by idji · 2010-08-02 04:07 · Score: 1

just wait until the add Photoshop to the mix. Then the whole thing dies.

Re:Photoshop! by kaptink · 2010-08-02 06:01 · Score: 1

Exactly, how on earth can this type of evidence collection be considered valid when anyone with a grudge or a twisted sense of humour can simply doctor the license plate in an image to incriminate somebody else? What a joke.

--
Those who can, do. Those who cannot, sue.
Re:Photoshop! by moortak · 2010-08-02 10:11 · Score: 1

People lying and fabricating evidence has always been an issue. If they have a good vetting process I can see it being very useful.

--
Xavier Rabourdin for president 2012

And the actual page by slack_prad · 2010-08-02 04:16 · Score: 4, Informative

The facebook page of the Delhi police where pictures are being posted and challans issued.
All this hullabaloo is due to the Common Wealth Games that are fast approaching. Once that's done, this facebook fiasco will die a slow death.

--
Sent from my desktop computer

Re:turn people against one another... by the_hellspawn · 2010-08-02 04:17 · Score: 1

Yep [picks up phone to call FBI on retech for supporting communist ideals] Seriously, people in the US do dime others out and quick.

--
"The laws of science be a harsh mistress." --Bender

Oh, next someone sends the same picture 200 times by tp_xyzzy · 2010-08-02 04:58 · Score: 1

How many tickets will they get if someone submits the same pic several times?

ticket cost? by hierophanta · 2010-08-02 05:13 · Score: 1

i once got a parking ticket out there & i was beggin the guy to not tow the car (as it was not even mine) - he wouldnt even take my bribe of 500 rupees ~10(USD) (which i thought was plenty).

Well they towed the car literally around the corner and asked for the 150 rupee fine. Thats uhh...3 USD, i pay 10x that to park legally here in the states.

and ok, before someone berates me for the difference in cost of living out there - the 1$ - 50rupees is about right (a meal for 4 adults can easily cost 2000+ rupees, and comic book 50)

Millhouse quote by houghi · 2010-08-02 05:27 · Score: 1

"Sure, we have order--but at what price?"

--
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.

Wonderful! by Anonymous Coward · 2010-08-02 05:33 · Score: 0

So now, part of your criminal record too is online forever for everybody to consume. We're on our way to paradise all right!

Note, this comment says nothing about a government using failbook...

ReportAReallyBadDriver.com by IronChef · 2010-08-02 05:48 · Score: 1

Because nothing can make a person more angry than other drivers, I often daydream about starting a web site like this. You'd need a license plate, and then you could rat on them for crimes against humanity like merging on to the freeway at 30 MPH. Ad revenue would be used to pay for getting contact info for the worst drivers, and sending them a letter.

(I almost got killed the other day when the car in front of me did not get up to freeway speed, and at the same time the massive truck behind us declined to slow down, forcing me and Mr. Slow onto the shoulder. After pulling off the shoulder and back on to the freeway, Mr. Slow continued to drive on at about half the speed limit. #@*!$ I realize my story is not special or even particularly interesting but I had to illustrate the point.)

I am not *really* a big fan of everybody spying on everybody, though. And I figure that there would be some kind of huge legal hassle in running a web site like that. So I won't. But I wish there was something you could do about seriously bad, unsafe drivers other than follow them and shake your fist, which never works out the way you'd hope.

Old Robin Williams' bit by R3d+M3rcury · 2010-08-02 06:06 · Score: 4, Interesting

This makes me think of an old Robin Williams' bit. To paraphrase, the idea was that every driver on the road is issued a gun that will shoot a flag that says "Asshole." When you see someone do something stupid, you fire the gun at the car and they end up with a little flag that says "Asshole" on their car.

One advantage of this is you'd be able to tell who the idiot drivers are and give them a wide berth. Kind of like a few years ago back in Florida when all the rental-car license plates started with 'Y'--if you saw a car with a 'Y' license plate, there was a good chance they didn't know where they were going and might change lanes at any moment.

Also, it would make it easier for the police to eventually catch these people. Heck, just make a law that says if you have more than 5 "Asshole" flags on your car, you get a ticket for being an asshole.

(Obviously this wouldn't really work--it's a comedy bit. But one can dream...)

Uhm... by Wh15per · 2010-08-02 06:31 · Score: 1

It looks like most of the posts are from a guy named Ladi Sharma...

Re:turn people against one another... by Red+Flayer · 2010-08-02 07:14 · Score: 1

So India is a communist block country now?

WTH is the "communist block"? You are conflating "Eastern Bloc" and "Communist".

2. India still has a lot of Communist relics in their government -- they only moved away from Communism in the 1990s, and the Communist Party still has a lot of influence, particularly in the poorer states.

And in case you have not heard, people of been reporting their neighbors forever in the US.

Yeah, that's pretty much global human nature, I think.

--
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai

if your neighbor punches his wife by circletimessquare · 2010-08-02 07:46 · Score: 1

you report on him, because you care. you can't do anything about it yourself, you can't talk to him, and you can't have a human conscience and say nothing. so you report him. anything else is logical failure and the road to a rotten hellhole of a society

--
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it

Re:if your neighbor punches his wife by clone53421 · 2010-08-02 08:29 · Score: 1

That only works when you are under the impression that the police will handle it in a way that benefits most of the involved parties.

--
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
Re:if your neighbor punches his wife by circletimessquare · 2010-08-02 09:14 · Score: 1

Yes, distrust of the police
A genuine problem
But there are two kinds of distrust:
1. Due to police misconduct. Rare in western industrialized nations. So your default assumption should be trust
2. Due to poverty of character or defect of psychology. Some people tend to paranoid schizophrenia or have a bad family background. This is distrust not due to anything the police did, but just because someone is psychotic
And even if the police are distrusted, they still would tend to do a better job intervening them some random asshole who assumes authority, no?
So is it 1 or 2 with you?

--
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Re:if your neighbor punches his wife by clone53421 · 2010-08-02 10:24 · Score: 1

Police misconduct is different in western industrialized nations. I would not call it rare. Only different.

--
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
Re:if your neighbor punches his wife by alexo · 2010-08-04 02:53 · Score: 1

Police misconduct is different in western industrialized nations. I would not call it rare. Only different.
It starts with small things.
For example, police are only allowed to break the speed limits when they have their flashing lights and sirens on.
How many police cars do you see speeding? (I see a lot) How many are ticketed by their peers? (Effectively zero).
Then the team spirit carries over to situations of manhandling suspects, planting evidence, etc. Whether it is an "us against them" mentality or peer pressure, the fact is that cops fall into 3 broad categories: those that are corrupt, those that actively protect the corrupt and those that keep silent about it.
Police are given the power to ruin your day (or even your life) with practically no accountability, especially with new laws that are being passed. Here's an example of something just begging to be abused:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2008/06/09/street-racing.html

Wait so...this uses photos from users...? by Kireas · 2010-08-02 20:51 · Score: 1

Forget attaching fake license plates, I'm pretty sure a fair portion of people submitting will have access to Photoshop or even GIMP. My first thought was "Why don't you just shop the image..."

I think perhaps the authorities over there will be swamped with complaints about the system soon enough.

--
To much anime is bad for the brain...desu.

Sorry. Couldn't help it.

police misconduct always exists by circletimessquare · 2010-08-02 23:15 · Score: 1

and always will

but the majority are actually paid to serve you, and do the job well

why it is so important to you to see the people meant to protect you from crime as something to fear or distrust says more to me about deficits in your psychology and character than anything about reality

--
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it

Re:police misconduct always exists by clone53421 · 2010-08-03 02:00 · Score: 1

police misconduct always exists and always will
see[ing] the [police] as something to fear or distrust [indicates] deficits in your psychology and character
reality
Heh. Your naivety is amusing. Who exactly has just given a perfect example of an alternate reality? (Hint: it wasn’t me.)
The police are paid to find city code violations so that the city can generate revenue from fines and to arrest lawbreakers and put them in jail. Only indirectly do they protect you, probably, if you make the crap-shoot assumption that the guy committing that crime isn’t doing it to you. If someone is committing a crime against you, assuming that the police will protect you is another crap-shoot assumption – that they’re close enough and respond quick enough and are able to keep the crime from occurring even if they do get there soon enough to watch it happen.
Why it is so important to you that a blind faith and trust is needed for the people meant to put you in jail if you break the law – yet have admitted that there will always be corruption within their ranks – says to me that you understand reality ... and choose to live somewhere else, because reality is too unpleasant.

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Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.

hilarious by circletimessquare · 2010-08-03 02:26 · Score: 1

what happens to your community when there is no police?

i admit to every single criticism of police that you can list (or imagine in your paranoid schizophrenia)

and yet society without police is obviously much worse

welcome to reality, moron

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intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it

Re:hilarious by clone53421 · 2010-08-03 02:57 · Score: 1

Nice straw-man. I never said that I want a society without police.
I said that in order to preserve one’s rights, the police need to have their authority properly limited and need to be held accountable for their actions.
The founders of our country happened to have agreed with this sentiment as they created the court system as a check on the executive branch (the executors of justice: i.e. the police).
The police exist to execute the law – to put criminals in jail. The court system exists to protect you from them – to keep innocent people out of jail.
The more you trust someone, the easier it is for them to violate your rights if they so wish. I choose whom I trust, and if you violate that trust, you lose it. The police are not my friends. I respect their authority, but I do not trust them to execute it perfectly because they are human just like anyone else.
I want a society with police. I want a society which has a distrust of police that forces them to be honest.

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Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.

there are two kinds of distrust here by circletimessquare · 2010-08-03 04:21 · Score: 1

1. healthy reserved distrust based on positions of power and that potential to abuse them

2. paranoid schizophrenic broad spectrum distrust based on defects of character and psychology

i think you will find most vocal loud distrust of the police is the latter, since of the former, nothing is spoken, because everyone, including the police, expect it, and it is perfectly normal and not in any way in dispute or controversial

so when i attack the latter, don't defend the former. unless you like changing the subject matter of a conversation and think that that somehow makes you have anything fucking valid to say

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intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it

Re:there are two kinds of distrust here by clone53421 · 2010-08-03 04:32 · Score: 1

You don’t get to attack any arbitrary idea of your choosing. You get to attack what I said, and what I said was:

That only works when you are under the impression that the police will handle it in a way that benefits most of the involved parties.
Now, if your neighbour punches his wife, there’s a pretty good probability that the police will handle it in a way that helps everyone. Not a certainty, just a good probability, and the particular situation is such that if you neglect to act, people are going to get hurt. So, once again, it is probably right to call the cops. A double-parked car, on the other hand, is probably not going to hurt anyone and I, for one, am not getting paid to do the police’s job for them.
I’m arguing the aptness of your analogy by pointing out that it depends on whether or not you think that calling the cops will be beneficial. Calling the cops on your neighbour will probably benefit his wife, you would hope, and people will probably think you were doing the right thing. Calling the cops on your neighbour’s illegally-parked car is just going to cost him the fee of the ticket, and makes you appear to be an asshole.

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Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.

Insightfull my ass! by alexo · 2010-08-04 03:08 · Score: 1

Who gives a shit what others where doing?

Many do. When the people in charge of upholding the law routinely and blatantly break it themselves it shows that the system is broken and corrupt.

Where you speeding or not?

He said he was stopped in traffic. Draw your own conclusions.

If yes, you are guilty of speeding, if no, then why the hell do you care what other people are doing?

Because their actions directly affect him in particular and society in general. You'd care if someone raped your sister, he cares when somebody rapes his rights.

Grow a pair and pay the ticket.

Seems to me that he actually has a pair as he was doing something to at least bring awareness to the situation, as opposed to some that consider "growing a pair" synonymous with "bending over".

You are still entitled to being an ass.

Where are you from? The US? If so, keep in mind that your country wouldn't exist if not for people "being asses" to his majesty's gang.

Re:Insightfull my ass! by chinakow · 2010-08-14 14:26 · Score: 1

I am way late to this party but a rebuttal is in order.
>>Who gives a shit what others where doing?
>Many do. When the people in charge of upholding the law routinely and blatantly break it themselves it shows that the system is broken and corrupt.
Here I was actually refering to who using his log of others actions as a defense for his own. Because others do wrong things does not entitle one to do wrong things.
>>Where you speeding or not?
>He said he was stopped in traffic. Draw your own conclusions.
It was a rhetorical question, not meant to be answered out loud.
>>If yes, you are guilty of speeding, if no, then why the hell do you care what other people are doing?
>Because their actions directly affect him in particular and society in general. You'd care if someone raped your sister, he cares when somebody rapes his rights.
Once again, others actions do no excuse our own we are talking about the proper response to a speeding ticket, not society here, stay on subject.
>>Grow a pair and pay the ticket.
>Seems to me that he actually has a pair as he was doing something to at least bring awareness to the situation, as opposed to some that consider "growing a pair" synonymous with "bending over".
Seems to me this guy is whining about the world being unfair. We all knew that already, start the previously mentioned blog already. Once again stay on topic, you know, the speeding ticket and defending against it.
>>You are still entitled to being an ass.
>Where are you from? The US? If so, keep in mind that your country wouldn't exist if not for people "being asses" to his majesty's gang.
I am from the US and that is exactly why I said he was allowed to complain all day long. It is just that he shouldn't feel that his logical fallacies are going to get him(or her) out of a speeding ticket.

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