Slashdot Mirror
Drunken Employee Shoots Server
Target Practice writes "A drunken mortgage worker at RANLife Home Loans decided for unknown reasons to take out the company's $100,000 server with a .45-caliber automatic, blaming the damage on an imagined assailant who: mugged him, assaulted him with his own weapon, drugged him, and then broke into his office to shoot said server. According to acquaintances, he had threatened earlier that day to shoot the server and maybe himself."
Police did find a knife on the floor, corroborating his account that the server came at him first.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Alcohol. Is there anything it can't do?
If libertarians are so opposed to effective government, why don't they all move to Somalia?
Is there a sysadmin among us that hasn't, at one time or another, wanted to shoot a server?
"Automatic" probably does not mean what you think it means.
"Automatic" weapons are typically ones that fire continuously as long as the trigger is pressed.
It can also mean "automatic" as in it resets for you. This second usage is a little archaic and is now commonly called 'semi-automatic'.
They always try to blame it on the hardware.
Has anyone considered that maybe the server deserved it?
I shot the server
(but I did not shoot the disk array)
"He's lost in a 'floyd hole"
A $100,000 server? At a loan company? Damn, $100,000 is a LOT of box for a Physics department at a large university.
No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
He could have had a MAC-10 or a Thompson....
Rumor has it that the server was seen holding what the mortgage officer thought was a weapon. The officer drew and repeatedly fired his weapon, pausing to reload 15 times because he believed his life was in danger. The server was fatally hit by 87 rounds, most of them entering through the rear of the chassis. No other weapon was found at the scene. The mortgage officer has been put on temporary desk assignment while an investigation is held.
taken one step further.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
To the layperson, automatic can mean either semi- or full-. Austin Powers said, "I've got my 9 milli automatic!" If you're referring to a belt-fed weapon though, most people don't say it's an automatic. They said it's fully-automatic or full-auto.
Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
You're supposed to shoot the server, THEN grab 2 beers and leave. This guy will fail at becoming the folk hero Steven Slater became. Now his post-mortgage plans of reality TV, book series, and magazine interviews are no more...
People not familiar with firearms tend to get confused on the difference between "automatic" and "auto-loader".
Automatic=1 trigger pull (and hold) and it fires until the clip is empty Auto-loader=1 trigger pull (and release) means one shot fired and the next round loaded in the chamber
I think it's a holdover from the "Roaring Twenties" - I don't think any reasonable person familiar with firearms has used that term in North America, in the last twenty years. The problem is that the media professionals (either intentionally or unintentionally) use the term to describe a particular firearm, neglecting to understand the ramifications of using an archaic term. I do believe that it's more a case of laziness more than overt anti-gun alarmism; but who knows. Think Edward G. Robbinson.
But some sysadmin just ends up shooting that pile of crap Dells until you buy him Sun^H^H^HOracle instead.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Netcraft confirmed it.
In better news, several banks of surviving ram and couple of hard drives have been salvaged and donated to a server that needs some upgrades.
The article didn't even mention if the server was ok or not.
As there was either a Panther, Tiger or some type of Leopard inside.
Should of had a HP sever
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFyXlb26ihs
If he has a CCW permit and the business he was at does not have a posted sign or policy and he was following local laws and ordinances, it's fully within his right to carry if he feels the need to. Why does it matter if he was at his desk job or anywhere else? He may live in a very bad part of town, or the business he's works at could be in a high crime area. You don't fully know the details and asking "why does he need X" is no different than asking "why does this person need privacy if he's not doing anything wrong" or any asking why anyone would be doing any activity that you yourself might not agree with or may find questionable, even if it is fully within his rights under the law.
You tread a slippery slope...
What about a handgun that, when no more rounds are chambered, the slide stays back with the breech open so that when a new mag is popped in you can simply release the slide to chamber another round? As opposed to a pistol that needs to be cocked for every new mag inserted? Is there a name for that?
I just noticed that the story was submitted by user "Target Practice". Coincidence? I think not.
$100k isn't that much really.
Sure it is a bit more beefy then the average Server but not to outrageous.
A virtualization server, with a lot of ram and storage can get really expensive really fast.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
What could actually go wrong with that?
ich bin der musikant
mit taschenrechner in der hand
kraftwerk
The Colt 1911 Govt model is usually referred to as a "single-action automatic". It is chambered for .45ACP, the ACP being "Automatic Colt Pistol". It's the traditional term associated with this weapon.
Of course, on a military system I saw something in the software requirements about how the system software had to protect the computer from kinetic penetration. I asked if having the software raise Shields was an adequate software solution (leaving it to the hardware people to actually build those Shields: "Implementing this API in hardware is not a software problem....")
In the same document, by the way, was this tid-bit under environmental considerations: "The software shall recycle bits and shall make use of recycled bits to the maximum extent possible." In This Case, I found who wrote that requirement, and he admitted it was a joke he inserted to see if anyone was actually reading it. No owner for the 'kinetic damage' requirement was ever found (it was probably cut-and-paste from an unrelated system specification.)
I honestly wasn't trying to flame, I'm legitimately curious as to whether he shot a single $100,000 machine or that's just a number the authorities are throwing out there as the "intrinsic worth" of the machine, e.g., includes the cost of recreating the data stored, etc.
At that price it just sounds more like a huge Sun SPARC system or something, I'm just curious what.
actually, the gun manufacturers still use the terminology. several of my weapon's manuals have titles such as "Colt Automatic Pistol .45 ACP"
That's what slashdot wants to know.
associated with many other weapons too, as there is .25 ACP, .32 ACP, .380 ACP, etc.
You're probably right, I just don't deal with anything that big so it's foreign to me. Heck, I have to max out a Dell R910 to get anywhere close to 6 figures and I'm still short, and that seems like overkill for whatever this company would need. I only pick on Sun cause they're one of the few where I've seen preconfigured systems (SPARC systems) starting in the 6 figure range. I sure haven't seen it in the X86 world. Thanks for the info.
As an aside, Why does a mortgage worker have a conceal and carry permit and a need to pack heat at his desk job?
Because the US Constitution says he can. If you require another reason, you should find another country in which to live.
Its a free country. He has a right to be an idiot. He has a right to own and carry weapons. Unfortunately he used both of his rights at the same time.
I would imagine that that would be the amount for the hardware and software setup and configuration. They probably got everything from a vendor, set up and ready to go, and if the money value has any bearing on real life, it's probably the replacement cost of everything ready to go again. It could be the cost of the entire system project, but that would be extremely cheap for server, set up, software, vendor time, training, etc.
That's not exactly what I meant. I meant what is it called when, upon firing the last round in the magazine, the slide stays back, allowing you to load another magazine, and then hitting a button to release the slide forward, chambering another round?
More to the point, I got the impression that this was after hours, so he wasn't necessarily carrying "at work". He essentially went to some local "Concert at the Park" deal that evening, got drunk, and went back to work specifically to shoot the computer. At least that's how I read the story.
I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
> He could have had a MAC-10 or a Thompson....
He could have had a Tommy Gun too but in all likelihood he just had M1911 pistol or something similar.
Between anti-gun/anti-prole liberal media and the tendency to overhype stuff, there will likely never be an accurate account when it comes to firearms.
"automatic" just sounds more exciting.
Nevermind that it really doesn't conform to the vernacular understanding of that term (in guns or anything else).
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Booyakasha! That's the Law Of Karma for you, in form of a Crazed, Drunken Gunman/Sysadmin. Didn't they learn from the case of State Of California trying to get passwords from a Lonely Sysadmin, Terry Childs ? Sysadmins Are Crazy! They have to be, to make sense out of all that Chaos! Don't mess with them or be prepared to take the occasional bullet in your servers! ;) Anyway, a Loan Company probably deserved this after what they have done to drive people into economical crisises.
Relating to Terry Childs, http://www.networkworld.com/news/2010/042710-admin-who-kept-sf-network.html:
"One of the reasons it was so expensive for the City to recover control of its network is because Childs had set routers to store configuration information in memory instead of on their hard drives, so any disruption of power would have wiped out this information. This made it very difficult for the city to reset the routers and recover administrative control of the network without reconfiguring the entire system." San Francisco spent about US$900,000 cleaning up the mess caused by Childs' actions, according to Assistant District Attorney Conrad Del Rosario."
Im Lak'Ech Sakari, A Proud Sysadmin
GeoKone.NET
It's not "laziness". It's intentional and overt manipulation. They want to sex up the article.
"Man fires pistol into computer" just isn't sexy enough.
It sounds more like Alexander Hamilton losing his temper than Rambo. It's not exciting enough.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Was it german? You can't fault the guy for shooting a de-server.
The 1911 pattern .45 ACP is still produced today and is still one of the most popular and commonly-used pistols on the market.. Not archaic, just a classic.
My blog
An M-16A1 is described by the USMC as a "semi-automatic". So clearly this generic use of the term "automatic" is probably a bit archaic as well as not being sufficiently precise (even for back in 1911).
THIS is the sort of nonsense that's killing them and has been since before the rise of the Internet Blogger.
OTOH, simply refering things to what that are (pistol,rifle,machine gun) goes a long way to clear this sort of stuff up. Journalists are supposed to be providing that information rather than obscuring it.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
What's the SNMP trap for "Oh on! I've been shot!" ?
There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
I could see him taking out 100k in servers if he hit the rack at the right angle. Even lower end Servers can easily cost 5k per U. And I bet a bullet could go through most or all of a 40U rack.
The police who responded immediately called for backup.
Intron: the portion of DNA which expresses nothing useful.
Really? Because the A1 was a select-fire rifle with safe-semi-full modes. The A2 has safe-semi-burst modes, where one trigger pull fires 3 rounds.
Keltec p-11?
Haven't we?
Generally, the media will call a semi-auto an automatic. It's much more sensational.
And it happens to be that the caliber in this case was .45 ACP, which stands for Automatic Colt Pistol.
Ruger lcp as well
When it comes to aggression versus servers, you can't beat the Gallery of Exploding Servers. Some serious mayhem inflicted upon hardware.
"Automatic" is a superset including selective fire, and semi-automatic weapons.
I doubt a single .45 bullet would get through more than 5 or 6 1u rackmount servers. I don't intend to try, but perhaps we can convince Mythbusters to try it? They always seem anxious to destroy things.
I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
Funny... I was just hearing from George Lucas that the server shot first.
FYI, a "Thompson" is a Tommy Gun. They are both references to the Thompson Sub Machine Gun. I agree, a 1911 (or a Glock, as they are common too) is probably more likely.
>He could have had a Tommy Gun too Sorry to be a pendant, but a Tommy Gun IS a Thompson.
Yes, but a tiger is only efficient if someone's coming at you with a basket of raspberries.
It's a little wrong to say a tomato is a vegetable. It's a lot wrong to say it's a suspension bridge.
Captain Ramius: Hey, Ryan, be careful what you shoot at. Most things in here don't react too well to bullets.
"You killed my yogurt!" --Fred Fredburger
A .45 round won't go through a single hard drive. But aim away from the drives and you might get one to penetrate a couple of 1U enclosures.
Eloi are stupid, throw morlocks at them!
My dad has an old Walther PPK/S, and I think it may not. That could be a problem with the gun though. I have never shot any other PPK/S to know.
My favorite is how they usually describe the gun on the news as "black". "The man in the ski mask threatened the store owner with a black semi-automatic handgun" BINGO! I'VE GOT (scary buzzword) BINGO!"
As if the gun being chrome or blue or purple or pink makes any difference.
The irony. A guy bitching about accuracy in gun stories screwing up what a "Thompson gun" is.
This sysadmin is a HERO of our times!
He helped a server who wanted to die quick to relieve its pain, shame, and suffering!
Seriously, can you imagine spending your life operated by SCO/Unix ?
R.I.P buddy
@neonux
Actually, I believe it was "killall -45"
He's about to be convicted of a felony. They will revoke his ability to own firearms. It isn't a right if it can be taken away from you. It's a privilege (like driving).
So, things like being able to walk around in the open, and go where you want, is also a mere privilege, granted to you by the State?
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Except that I wasn't boozed up. And luckily didn't have a gun.
That would have been cool if he had shot at the server with a MAC-10 like Jason Mewes shot at a winged Ben Affleck in "Dogma" yelling "Suck a duck!". Of course, you really don't need a reason to machine-gun Ben Affleck. Hey, maybe the guy looked at the server but saw Ben Affleck?
Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
"The full precipitating causes may never be known, but one February night in 1970 a McDonald Observatory employee (not a Texan, but an Ohioan newly hired from another observatory!) suffered a breakdown and carried a pistol to the observing floor of the 107-inch telescope. He fired a shot at his supervisor, and then unloaded the rest of the clip into the primary mirror. Happily, fused silica is more resilent than ordinary glass, and the big mirror did not break. The craters have been bored out and painted black to reduce any light-scattering effect, and the end result is simply a slight reduction in the efficiency of the telescope. It is now the equivalent of a 106-inch telescope. The incident made the national television news..."
Taken from http://www.astr.ua.edu/keel/telescopes/mcdonald.html
"I shot the server, but I didn't shoot no DVD"
No, the P-11 9mm locks back. The Kel Tec P-3AT .380 doesn't. The P-3 .32 ACP does, but when they made the .380, there wasn't any room for the slide lock.
Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
Please tell me that you meant to say 'Pendant' while you were being pedantic about the Tommy Gun. It makes it that much funnier for those that catch the flub.
Probably just happened the be the max. amount they were insured for on their computer equipment?
I'm just saying ... when crazy stuff like this happens and the accused is clearly in the wrong, they sure don't tend to go to lots of trouble to report accurate figures of what the cost of damage really was.
I mean, ok, it COULD have really been a $100,000 server, but everyplace I worked, our rack mount servers were more like $5,000 - $14,000 each. You might double that if you've got an external drive array in there attached to it. But shoot, even the big Oracle database server we purchased in the late 90's at a previous employer was around $60K, if I recall correctly. $100K should buy you quite a nice server configuration -- and seems like more than a typical home loan place would need?
I'm impressed that he shot the actual server instead of just the monitor, thereby avoiding a classic rookie mistake.
With reasonable men I will reason; with humane men I will plead; but to tyrants I will give no quarter. -- William Lloyd
The racks would be thin mild steel and the motherboards are low density. It would depend a lot on what kind of bullet is used and the angle of attack, but I think you may be underestimating the penetration of a .45 ACP.
A .45 ACP can penetrate something like 5 or 6 insulated drywall walls and be deadly or up to two people.
I would actually like to see this on myth-busters like someone else mentioned.
The slide staying back is referred to as "lock back".
As far as the reload I think you are referring to a "slide-lock" reload. Meaning you are manually disengaging the slide lock to allow the slide forward to chamber another round as opposed to the slide being in the forward position, putting in a clip and "racking" (pulling back and releasing) the slide to reload.
The forefathers didn't have access to semi-automatic handguns which could fit in their pockets.
The forefathers had access to fucking artillery pieces. Cannons were available to private ownership and use throughout the first century of US history, and were especially common on the frontier where they were an important force multiplier for small settlements vs. natives. For that matter, you could own and operate your own private warship during the same period if you could afford it, with as many cannons as you could fit on it.
I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
It was a preemptive strike to take down Skynet.
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
"The Service you requested is currently unavailable. Please try again later. "
I am sure it had more than one core.
Sometimes companies get so greedy that they pressure workers and over work workers until the ugly jumps out and takes control. Give the man a vacation!
Your definition of a right is awful. Everything and anything can be taken away from you. You think you have the right to live but then someone can just go over to you and shoot you. Under your definition there are no rights and everything is a privilege. On the other hand, I do agree with the whole "love it or leave it " comment. If you love something enough you fix it when it is being destroyed.
BROADCAST MESSAGE FROM USER root: The system will be shot down now!
umm...since when? I spent 6 years in the Marines and at no time was an M16 ever referred to as a semi-automatic. It was and is a select-fire assault rifle and believe me they drilled that shit into our skulls. The A2 was capable of burst mode, but was also a select-fire weapon. I don't know where you got the idea the USMC thinks an assault rifle is a semi-automatic, but whoever it was is dead wrong.
Horatio: Looks like this server...(takes off his sunglasses)...has been shut down.
using System.Awesome;
The feature you are referring to is "slide-lock". Most modern semi-automatic pistols have it with the exception of some smaller "pocket" pistols. Some guns will release the slide and put a new round into battery automatically when the next magazine is inserted, and some require the slide release to be flipped to release it.
They are including the cost of running and maintaining Windows on it.
... and were especially common on the frontier where they were an important force multiplier for small settlements vs. natives. ...
So are you are saying that is a good thing? Using guns to slaughter the indigenous people you are stealing land from? That is why we have the second amendment?
Times change - I agree with the GP. "Love it or leave it" is weak - why can't there be a thoughtful discussion of gun rights that focuses on the circumstances of today?
It's traditional, at least in the US, to call a semi-automatic pistol an automatic. Does confuse laypeople sometimes, though.
I don't think people generally refer to their semi-automatic rifles as automatics, just pistols.
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
No, your second example is actually in very common usage. Nobody I know calls their 1911 types (Kimber, Colt, etc) a "semi-automatic" unless they're being pedantic.
"The .45 ACP (11.43x23mm) (Automatic Colt Pistol), also known as the .45 Auto by C.I.P."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/45_ACP
A *lot* of people call them a 45 auto. It's because there was also a 45 single action in popular use at the time, often called a Colt 45.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Single_Action_Army
Example: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=45+automatic
A large majority of the hits show that most 1911s are referred to *still* as the 45 automatic (or 45 ACP)
An operating system should be like a light switch... simple, effective, easy to use, and designed for everyone.
As an europen i say :
WTF ??? the right to carry concealed weapons ???
Yes, I'm left. You have a problem with that?
I always assumed 'automatic' simply referred to the action used to chamber another round, to differentiate from manual operations like levers and pumps.
Highly doubtful this fellow was carrying any automatic weapon at a bar and around on the street. While it is a Constitutionally protected right to do so, it is illegal in many states to open carry automatic firearms. More than likely he used some sort of 1911 based pistol which he was probably legally carrying until the point of intoxication, at which point he should have no longer been carrying.
Apple make servers with panzers inside? I KNEW Jobs was out for world domination!
Moderation Total: -1 Troll, +3 Goat
He's about to be convicted of a felony. They will revoke his ability to own firearms. It isn't a right if it can be taken away from you. It's a privilege (like driving).
It wasn't that long ago that felons were handed a weapon, some bullets, and some coins to allow them to fend for themselves. Why? Because people could read AND understand the US Constitution.
I agree with your point, but its a right. Period. Not a privileged. Period. Don't confuse unconstitutional gun laws with rights and/or privileges. All you've really argued is that people in power, and many ignorance people of the general population, can't understand the easiest to comprehend legal document with the most power over this land.
My cheap 9mm plinker is a HiPoint and it does not do what you describe. It's not a bad gun but its cheap so you get what you pay for.
The question wasn't "why is he allowed to pack heat" the question was "why does he _need_ to pack heat." Of course people are allowed to carry guns if they feel it is necessary for protection, but many people would consider themselves more "free" if they can live a life that doesn't require a deadly weapon to stay safe.
Utah is a CCW state. You would think that if he didn't have a permit, they would have thrown that charge at him as well. I guess the housing market is a lot scarier than I thought.
In Utah, CFPs are only required for concealed carry. Open carry requires no permit, though it must be at least two actions away from firing (ie. two trigger pulls or slide+trigger).
Oh, and Utah is the only state with a brady score of 0, something many people consider to be a good thing.
The cartridge is called .45 ACP, Automatic Colt Pistol. It is understood by gun people that an automatic pistol is not full, but semi-automatic.
he was actually aiming for one of the VMs...
I don't why it matters if he had a PC or an Apple server? Or why the Media Access Control address of the device is important.
Times change
But ignorance does not, which is exactly what such statements prove. You seriously need to learn some extremely basic history before you respond further.
The first amendment has maintained its power exactly because the second amendment exists. The only reason the second amendment isn't first is because they wanted it understood the new country they created was built first on the pen and second on the sword; only after the pen has failed. Furthermore, they specifically granted the power to ensure a corrupt government can be overthrown.
Any gun laws which effectively prevent the potential overthrown of the government (I'm not advocating) is completely unconstitutional. Period. Anyone who says otherwise is either ignorant of history or pushing an agenda. Both are extremely common. If you don't like the rights provided under the Constitution, advocate the change of the Constitution and along with it, restriction and removal of your rights. Because that's exactly what you'd be doing; or if not your rights, the rights of our children and children's children.
You need to understand, police are in now way legally obligated to save you from anything at all; assuming they are even there. Its extremely likely, whenever you actually need police, they will only be there after the need is gone. The "Protect And Serve" expression makes for great marketing but is nowhere near accurate. An accurate creed is, "Observe And Report", because that's exactly what they do. Which means, if you want protection, you must have the rights granted under the second amendment. To argue otherwise is to argue people deserve no protection from harm or injury from others.
The legitimate reasons and the specific reasons why the second amendment exists are almost endless. Every time I see someone make your statement, in my head, its always translated into, "duuh?", because you are ignorantly advocating almost everything bad humanity has to offer - and don't even realize it. Your ignorance is specifically advocating the death and injury of innocent people and even more government corruption.
Seriously. Our forefathers are extremely well documented. I encourage you to go learn about them, why specific choices were made, and why the US Constitution was written the way it was. Once you do that, you'll realize how many insanely stupid and ignorant people we have in power, including the power over your rights, privileges, freedom, and life. If you're not frustrated and at least a little bit concerned, you've not learned enough. Seriously.
"why does he _need_ to pack heat."
That's a completely ridiculous question. Why do we need police? Keep in mind, police have no legal obligation to actually help you in any way. None. Which leaves us with only one sane question, "Why does he _not_ need to pack heat."
And just so you know, I don't carry.
I don't understand why troubleshooting is OK at work but regular shooting is frowned upon. (Courtesy: Twitter)
Love me or leave me. Hey, where's everybody going?
A .45 round won't go through a single hard drive.
Who told you that? A hard drive is nothing more than two thin pieces of sheet metal and some glass or aluminum platters. The .45 will go through it without any problems and the .45 isn't even a particularly good round for penetrating cover (it's a low velocity subsonic round).......
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
The forefathers didn't have access to semi-automatic handguns which could fit in their pockets.
They didn't have the internet either but somehow I doubt an argument that claimed the 1st amendment doesn't apply to Daily Kos would hold any water.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
WTF ??? the right to carry concealed weapons ???
So I guess you've never been to the Czech Republic then?
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
Correction: it is a privilege granted to you by the state through virtue of the Constitution, which was written by a collection of people who agreed on a basic set of operating principles for a human society.
I'll never understand why people argue that the Bible is just a book, but the Constitution is the physical embodiment of some higher, unalterable truth. Maybe they're the same? I don't know. Either which way, the Constitution can be changed as quickly as it was created. If enough people agree on its amendments, or even its scrapping, it will be changed.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
I'm going to submit the details of this new DoS exploit to Microsoft if there isn't already a KB article on it.
My theory is that the guy was reading the current /. poll and got some crazy ideas from the comments on the poll.
http://www.acetonestudio.com
Really the CountryWide Loan worker who was angry during the collapse of that bank. They just settled the class action lawsuit on this. I get free credit monitoring for years and years. No evidence any has been used yet.
Automatic could also refer to the bullet likely used: .45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol)
Check again buddy. The base price on a Dell (m|R)910 server is about $28K. Fully maxed out these can approach 6 figures. Now consider a chassis pupulated with m910 blades...
Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
The first amendment has maintained its power exactly because the second amendment exists.
The usual means of securing 1st amendment rights is going through the court system and following the rule of law established by the constitution. Laws are passed by the legislature, vetted by the judicial branch, and enforced by the executive. The people involved are in their positions by a democratic process - either directly voted in or by the appointment of elected people, etc. No guns are involved in this process.
Now I am not, nor did I in my previous post, advocate repealing the second amendment - I just asked "why can't there be a thoughtful discussion of gun rights that focuses on the circumstances of today?" Your response is why - it is an absolutist position where you see any revision as the "slippery slope" that will lead to the inevitable downfall of western civilization.
It is very clear that the founding fathers did not intend the constitution to be an immutable document for all time. We are allowed to amend it, and I believe we would be remiss in our duties as citizens if we did not continuously examine, test, and improve it. Certainly we should be able to discuss it!
It may very well be that part of the cost of our freedom is suffering some of the effects that the modern proliferation of handguns has brought - after all, to be free is to be free to do good and the freedom to do bad. But maybe there are ways that can mitigate some of the negative consequences without taking away rights? So far the track record of gun safety and gun storage programs/laws hasn't been that great, but there is some (debatable) evidence that accidental gun death rates have been diminishing since the 30's or so. Why wouldn't we want to look at the data and see if we can improve?
And don't bother trotting out Franklin's security vs freedom quote - I agree with it. Levels of security and freedom are NOT a zero-sum game - we can have both.
That's called semi-automatic
"Automatic" typically refers to (a) 3-round-bursts or (b) where you hold down the trigger and out comes a constant stream of bullets. You'll occasionally hear "automatic" referring to a semi-auto but not very often because of its ambiguity.
Correction: it is a privilege granted to you by the state through virtue of the Constitution
No, no, no. The Constitution does not grant any rights. It is there to limit the government's ability to infringe on the rights you naturally have. That is the entire point of how the founders set things up.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
I doubt an argument that claimed the 1st amendment doesn't apply to Daily Kos would hold any water.
But.......it would be funny if someone started that meme.
Qxe4
Just going on assumptions here, but if he wasn't charged for carrying a concealed weapon that means one of two things: he has a CCW or Utah is an open carry state (which looks to be true). If he was carrying openly, I hope that a bar tender would not have served him. If he was carrying concealed, he is one of those few irresponsible dolts who decide that guns plus mind-altering substances are a-okay.
This also includes devices such as a shoe string or rubber band.
Behold, the yellow thing is a registered machine gun
ATF decision here
Forgot to mention about those shotguns.
After US vs Olofson Precedent was set that even if a firearm that was manufactured as a semiautomatic and malfunctioned so that more than one round was fired with a single pull of the trigger deemed the firearm to be an automatic machine gun. This also follows suit such that a shotgun that fires both chambered shells through the means of one trigger pull is thus an illegal machine gun. Yes, the ATF is on record saying that.
You COMPLETELY missed the point. What I said has no bearing on what you are saying. In the end, what you consider your natural right depends fully on enough people around you agreeing with you that it is a natural right - making it not a natural right, but a privilege.
The Constitution is a document that documents what some people at some point in time thought to be a rational way to organize a society. It may define things as limiting what government can do, but it doesn't change the fact that in the end, the only rights you naturally have are the ones you can defend yourself. Sort of like the idea that the only thing you truly own is what you can carry while running at full tilt.
Just to repeat: there are no universal rights. Merely rights people agree on. This means that the constitution is a historical document codifying said agreement. Not a sacred artifact of worship.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
Just to repeat: there are no universal rights. Merely rights people agree on
Nope, sorry. Just because someone can beat you into state of not being able to enjoy/pursue your natural rights doesn't make them less valid. Just difficult to exercise. Having your liberty denied to you doesn't change the actual, rational definition of liberty. It just means it's being denied to you.
There are "universal" rights in the sense that if you actually use reason in the process, they are naturally derived. It's as simple as that. That doesn't mean they are universally embraced, because of course many people choose not to use reason or rational processes to inform their world view.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
I'm afraid that most competition shooters would disagree with you about the "faster" part.
Uh, they start at $5k and the most I could get one to cost without going to 1TB of ram (64* mega expensive 16GB DIMM's) was $87k which is admittedly kinda close to 6 figure).
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
I've also heard it called "last-shot hold open". The context was in a tube fed rifle (Marlin Model 60).
Utah is also an open carry state. So he may not have been carrying concealed.
In some respects he may have even been transporting from wherever to his office. Which means that the gun is not on or about the person rather stowed in a container that is generally inacessible. Specifics vary state to state, some do not consider the glovebox 'on or about' others mandate locked containers, ammo separate from the gun, etc.
http://www.opencarry.org/ut.html
I would respond that you haven't practiced that release method long enough. Or, favorably, that the "slingshotting" method is easier to learn.
Pulling a trigger and thumbing the slide release are similarly fine motor skills that no one seems to think are impossible to do under pressure.
Also, the Glock's slide release is notoriously difficult to hit under the best of circumstances. Some other designs do not have this issue.
If you've practiced to the point where you can do as quick of a reload as I have seen using the slide lock, I very much doubt you're going to suddenly lose those trained motor skills in a firefight. That said, I am entirely willing to believe you that if you haven't practiced, you're going to flub the whole thing up and be slower.
Glock doesn't care about how easy it is to hit the slide release because they feel that there is no reason to need to manually operate it under most instances. The only reason I can think of to manually manipulate a slide lock is when you need to lock the action open prior to setting a gun down on a table at the range.
The trigger is not a "similarly fine motor skill". You can operate the trigger without having to change the grip on the gun. Many people can not reach the slide lock on the typical handgun without changing their grip on it. Fine manipulation of the trigger does not come into play for self-defense with a handgun at typical ranges. Hell, most people interviewed after a self-defense shooting don't even recall seeing the sights, much less gently squeezing the trigger as a hunter or target shooter would do.
You keep doing it your way if you want. I'll keep doing it the way that I was trained. Pulling the slide back is a natural motion that's also used to clear malfunctions. It's much easier than trying to manipulate a small slide lock, particularly on those gun designs where the manual operation of that lock is not considered essential.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
and as stated in the Gospel According to John*
if the other guy has a 1911 all other things being equal YOU WILL BE JUST AS DEAD
* note not Saint John but the Other John (MB)
Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
You sure the p-11 locks back automatically? I'll have to try it later but I've got access to a P-40 I can use.
I had one for several years, so I'm pretty sure. Here's a pic. The slide release is the big button.
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg181-e.htm
Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
If he had to use an Apple server, he could easily claim temporary insanity.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Actually I was going to go with he has a small penis, Napoleon syndrome and anger management issues.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Top down, I doubt a .45 could go thorough more then 2 servers, those things aren't made out of paper you know. If he hits a heat sink then it might not even go through one. .45's are not normally armour piercing.
This is probably a dodgy insurance claim. 6-8K worth of server, maybe 20K MAX worth of downtime but that equates to a 100K insurance claim. I guess they hired Hollywood accountants.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
It's all about energy dissipation. Drywalls are brittle and weak, insulation is soft and you can push through it with your finger. People are also soft and squishy. None of these are good at dissipating kinetic energy.
.45.
Servers or more specifically server cases on the other hand are made out of metal, metal is quite strong, hard yet malleable. The mailable part means that a lot of energy is expended in stretching the metal before it is penetrated which means the bullet loses a lot of energy (speed) by distributing that across the casing (which is being stretched).
To get multiple servers, you need to go through the heavy, metal top and bottom of the case, PCB's will break like glass because they are extremely brittle but metal (steel and aluminium) are very malleable. Kevlar is so effective because it can distribute kinetic energy, not because it's hard enough to stop a bullet.
But hey, if you want to test this, just bring a couple of Xserves down to the range, I'll pay the A$20 to hire a
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
It's only a slippery slope because idiots are using dangerous tools as the equivalent of a patriotic t-shirt. In nearly every case it makes as little practical sense as carrying a harpoon around. :) ), but it just looks dangerous and incredibly stupid to people outside of the USA.
I know it's in the spirit of Valley Forge (and a way to pretend the French didn't give you the country
The "rough area" defence has zero credibility in a server room.
Ok buddy, I did by flipping to the page where I just built one for a MSSQL server that will be serving only 10,000 clients. Oh lookie UNDER $28,000. When was the last time you actually built a server? I ordered 2 of these things last month. a 910 is pretty darn cheap nowdays.
P.S. dont try the BS of giving it 1TB of ram.. Windows Server and all the server apps CANT use that much ram, so it's a waste. It would be useful IF we installed a linux on there and ran a bunch of VM's but then that would be stupid, running a rack full of blades is cheaper and higher performance than a single machine running VM's.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
If people outside of the USA think that allowing people to make their own decisions regarding their personal safety is stupid then it must be! Oh wait -- are those the same people who banned their citizens from carrying pocket knives? Clearly the dude in question is not playing with a full deck, but you are making some dangerous and misinformed generalizations. On the subject of the 'French giving us the country' horseshit, seems like your attitude towards the US is, shall we say, close-minded?
>He could have had a Tommy Gun too
Sorry to be a pendant, but a Tommy Gun IS a Thompson.
>implying slashdot is a futaba board
I actually carry a revolver, so if fine motor skills are out the window and I have to do a reload I am *completely* screwed :)
I've seen a .22lr go through a disk(top -> platters -> bottom) no problem. A .45 would have no problem doing the same.
If you tried from a different angle (say, end-to-end, or maybe side-to-side), you might have trouble going through the thicker sides, and the platters would offer more resistance when struck on edge. They would almost certainly deflect the bullet to the side, and likely fragment it as well.
I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
That's no server, that's a space station.
Well, that's one way to do it. I would carry a revolver if I was any good at shooting them. I'm much better with pistols though. The weight distribution on a revolver feels all wrong to me.
Don't worry too much about the reloads. Statistics say that the vast majority of civilian self-defense encounters involve 3-5 shots. I only carry a spare magazine because of Murphy's law -- if the one in the gun fails for whatever reason I'm SOL without a spare.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
"Drunken Employee Pops Cap in Server" By Lester Haines
http://nyewin.org http://nyexug.com http://nycsqlusergroup.com http://nylug.org
I thought the little smiley thing explained everything.
Of course it was neither a few antique musket owning civilians freezing in the woods in the woods or the French assistance alone that won a country - IMHO it's as ridiculous to say gun owning won the country as it is to say the French gave it to you.
Now do you see what I mean?
Also gun owning is one thing and wearing it out and about is another. Too many idiots have a gun to wave as a symbol of patriotism instead of treating it as a tool that should be locked up seperately from the ammo when not in use. Did he think a grizzly bear was going to come out of the office lift or something?
My attitude to people like that, as an owner of a rifle myself, is very much disbelief and close-mindedness.