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Big Brother In the School Cafeteria?
AustinSlacker writes "An Iowa school district's lunch program asks children as young as 5 years old to memorize a four-digit PIN code so it can monitor what they eat in the school cafeteria - prompting some parents to claim it's an unhealthy case of 'Big Brother.' An over reaction by parents or an unnecessary invasion of privacy?"
Obviously the fnord agency is trying to get our youth preprogrammed and conditioned to accept monitoring as a normal part of membership in our society.
Was told so by others, but kind of supprised how fast they got slavery back into America.
Guess Iowa's potentates want to make sure there property is properly fed.
I predict that at the end of next month, little Debbie Povunktuk will be recorded as eating 500,000 calories all in mashed potatoes.
C'mon... kids that age share all sorts of things... they won't understand that sharing their secret PIN is wrong. Mainly because their mom&dad said to report anyone that tells them "it'll be our little secret"
Karma: Excellent. 15 moderator points expire sometime.
Perhaps an interesting point if the data is accessible to parents and the kids themselves. Some adults I know would pay for this service in the real world... It's time to teach kids what they're eating affects their health.
That being said, it should be opt-in.
Belief? Hope? Preference?The Existential Vortex
Schools really should be more mindful of what [i]they[/i] serve. If a kid wants to bring their own lunch that's fine, but the school provided meals should be healthy and balanced. Let's get rid of the candy and soda machines while we're at it. Not only does it promote unhealthy lifestyles, but is a disgusting display of consumerism within a so-called institute of education.
"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
Does this mean they don't eat?
Maybe it's training them for air travel - bizarre and excessive punishments for simple infractions.
This type of stuff really trips my “who cares” switch. Aside from slippery slope arguments and general “right to privacy” statements I find it hard to think of a scenario where I would really care if “the man” or “the corporation” knew what I was eating.
Hell, even if they attached my name to it and sold it to every market research company in the world, I can’t think how this negatively impacts me. Even less so what I ate as a kid.
I know I sound like a shill here.. but I’m a consumer. I buy and consume stuff. Corporations profit by selling me stuff. I generally don’t mind corporations trying to figure out how to better provide (or dupe me into buying) stuff. They profit, I (usually) benefit.. etc.
Most of the arguments against these “invasions of privacy” revolve around delusional dystopian worlds where the government uses market data to hunt down people counter to their objectives and drag them from their homes to be put to work in the acid mines.
We live in reality here people! And your buying habits are not that interesting! There is so much data out there and such a diversity of people, you have to be into some really weird stuff for anyone to take notice. Chances are you are just “person with sexual fetish for office supplies #21342” in aggregate set 143.
Yet these same parents willingly sign up for loyalty programs at their local grocery store, tractor supply store, or mega-chain. They don't think those are tracked?
"We're making sure that as they're leaving the lunch line that the menu items they've selected match up with state law, so they're selecting a meal that has all the basic [components] of good nutrition," said school district spokesman Jarrett Peterson. "We're not tracking what each individual child eats."
If that were true they would not need a PIN, just a pass/fail for whatever is on their tray. Pass you get to go and eat, fail you get back in line and get your vegetables.
When I was in public school we didn't even have a choice - everybody's meal was exactly the same. Other than outliers with food allergies, why aren't they doing that? No need for any of this technology crap (which, I'd be surprised if it weren't a sweet-heart corporate socialism deal for some company that is owned by a member of the school board) and they probably save money by streamlining preparation and purchasing too.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Yeah, like 5 year olds should have the right to decide their consumption of tobacco, liquor and drugs, engage in sex, as well as eat whatever they want, because, dangit, we don't want those who are responsible (parents or en loco parentis) to look after them--that would be an infringement of their obviously informed consent to live free and party.
Keep Doing Good.
1984 here we come! This is absolutely outrageous. They say it is for ensuring that what the school feeds the kids comply with sate laws. My question is that is this statement implying that the students MAY receive meals that go against these new laws? Wouldn't the better and less intrusive way to ensure the food served is "nutritious" is to only ship certain foods to the schools to serve? That sounds a whole lot less expensive than setting up an electronic system that DOES track what each individual student eats.
"We’re making sure that as they’re leaving the lunch line that the menu items they’ve selected match up with state law, so they’re selecting a meal that has all the basic [components] of good nutrition,” said school district spokesman Jarrett Peterson. “We’re not tracking what each individual child eats.”
So, no one thought of serving only nutritious food that meets the guidelines? Instead they spent (I'm sure a fortune) on an electronic system to track this stuff. And you just know that the school district is or will have budget problems and it won't occur to them as to why.
I so fucking disgusted right now.
RIP America
July 4, 1776 - September 11, 2001
I predict that at the end of next month, little Debbie Povunktuk will be recorded as eating 500,000 calories all in mashed potatoes.
C'mon... kids that age share all sorts of things... they won't understand that sharing their secret PIN is wrong. Mainly because their mom&dad said to report anyone that tells them "it'll be our little secret"
But sharing is evil! The RIAA told me so...
And remember to say that when politicians ask for money...
How can they possibly justify the need to monitor what children eat. When they are either eating what their parent gave them or what the school gives them. This is has no purpose other than to get kids used to being monitored. For crying out loud, if you're worried they're eating too much junk, stop giving it to them.
recording what our children eat in school is not a bad idea, I don't see it as big brother and the school's response is completely reasonable: "The program is intended to provide the children with more food options while ensuring compliance with new and stricter state-mandated nutrition requirements."
I would appreciate it if my kid's school would tell me what he was eating or if he was eating.
Makes sense to me, wonder if these parents complain when their children take state mandated tests.
Also why is the parent making a huge deal about memorizing 4 numbers? Don't these children know their 7-digit home phone numbers?
I feel very sorry for whatever teachers and administrators that have to deal with Garry Howe, the parent making a big deal about nothing, hate to see what happens when one of his kids bring home a B!
my karma will be here long after I'm gone
They know what they sell in their cafeteria. Who will they sell the data to?
Protest by having all the kids use the same PIN.
That's a huge school !
Nullius in verba
...in my kids' school district, each child receives a 6-digit PIN, in kindergarten. The children are expected to memorize their PINs in kindergarten, where they must use the PIN to purchase lunch. So there's really nothing new under the sun here. Identification numbers are a fact of life: You'll get one in primary and secondary school, you'll get one in college, and then you'll get an employee ID when you get hired on. Every aspect of one's life is dictated by an identification number.
My kid's school gives them credit card like objects with their picture on them so they can do the same thing but it works great because I can log in and see that my kid ate what I told them to eat.... or at least purchased what I told them to.
I used to take $1.25 to school every day for lunch. Today a kid would get robbed and killed for that much. I'm guessing this setup is to monitor food inventory and how much to charge parents' for each kid's food.
I don't really see the huge deal here. A lot of it can be technically done already with pre-existing technologies. I remember that my school had lunch cards where they scanned in what you ate with a bar code, granted it only told the prices but once the technology improved I figured that inventory management would be the next thing. I understand the root of the problem, the government should never mandate what someone can and can't eat, on the other hand, its something easy to implement technically and essentially something I did in elementary school, you scan in your lunch card and it has your lunch account balance on it. College was the same way. I don't see whats too shocking other than what they use the data for.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
Miami public school system has had the PIN code system for cafeteria purchases since 1990 at least.
Whatever happened to the days when there were no choices for lunch at school. You ate the slop they served or you went hungry. Worked just fine when I was a kid (~30 yrs ago). The food wasn't even that bad and we got all milk refills we wanted (was served from cafeteria-style dispensers not tiny cartons).
There were no kosher menus, no vegetarian menus, no alternates if kids didn't like something, no alacarte line, and no salad bars. Kids with food allergies had to bag it when they couldn't eat that day's lunch (menus were posted monthly so parents could keep track). The only food served other than that day's menu was PB&J (with milk and some sort of fruit), which was always available, even for kids who couldn't pay and weren't on free lunch program.
A simple menu would be cheaper to serve, both in terms of food costs and labor (kitchen and serving), and easier to track who ate what: (a) school lunch, (b) bag lunch, or (c) PB&J.
Nutrition tracking in the middle of an obesity epidemic isn't a privacy issue, it's a small step in the right direction.
That doesn't really sound like the best way to implement it though. On the other hand, it should at least sort of work, which is better than nothing.
Seriously! My elementary had a PIN code to pay for lunch over 20 years ago. It was a very helpful system that allowed parents to deposit money into the lunch account. Kids didn't have to worry if they had money or not in the account either. The account would go negative and a letter would be generated to be sent home reminding the parent to deposit money into the account.
The only difference between then and now is that school districts are watched under a microscope about what food is being fed to the kids. So now the lunch lady records what food you eat so the school can use that data to improve the food and prove they are meeting state/federal guidelines. Where is the harm in that?
I'd certainly like any school to stop my kid from draining his lunch account by buying nothing but Twinkies!
Keeping track of food consumption, and maybe supplying that information to parents, sounds like a good idea. It is not like a school, especially in the lower grades, don't already know what kids eat.
This is clearly an attempt by the fast food people to stem this rise of healthy eating that the schools are trying to promote. 'Let the kids eat whatever they want so we will have fat happy customers in the future. Keeping track of what your child eats is facism. They want the fruit roll ups and skittles. If we fortify them with vitamins and minerals can we serve those for lunch. Sure if nobody is looking.'
The rational person might assume that new options are to try to give kids choices so it is more likely that they will eat the food instead of throwing it away. Since the diet is not preplanned to insure it meets federal requirements, such data must be taken to insure that the lunch program meets guidelines.
It is like the customer affinity card at your supermarket. If you don't want them to know what you eat, then don't use the card.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
I don't know whether school lunch programs actually increase student performance or not. It is unconscionable that children go hungry while others eat in front of them, so I consider the programs necessary.
The three of my four kids who are in school take a lunch box. One of them is overweight, and we found out he was spending his allowance on a la carte junk food in the cafeteria line, particularly ice cream bars.
Frankly, there isn't any reason for the junk food to be there in the first place. I was astonished to find out that the school policy is to not enforce parents' requests to not allow children to buy junk food in the cafeteria.
It's not realistic for most parents to be with their kids all the time. It takes a village to raise a child. I don't think secret PIN numbers are necessary to help kids eat better in school. I think we just need to get the junk food out of the cafeteria. If parents *want* their kids eating crap, put it in the lunch box, but don't try to sell it to my kids while I'm not looking. I don't think we should expect teachers or lunch workers to be food police. Get the bad food out so they don't have to deal with it and parents don't have to worry about it.
Check out the source of the story, folks. It says at the top of the page that it's coming from an organisation called "Fox News, Fair and Balanced".
Just thought you should know.
Drill baby drill - on Mars
At my old high school the card system did not work that well at times.
This was years ago but what I saw was Power over Ethernet cash registers / POS with 2? Line mini LCD's that did not work that well. Some student said they were getting over billed on their cash / free lunch card. The systems when down many times and lunch stuff had to write the card numbers down and the cost of the food. Some times when paying with cash they would ring it up look at the price (to high) says that's not right and have to start over. It seemed like it had a poor keyboard that doubled press at times.
I know that, in my school district, pretty much all students are required to input a 7 digit student id # when buying lunches or breakfasts. This isn't to monitor what children are eating per se (they do provide the option to parents, though it's an opt-in only), it is simply because the FDA's food subsidy only pays for one meal per student per day.
No, the creepy part is this: Many people above pointed out that students might share ID numbers. This system pulls up the student's yearbook photo so that the lunch staff can visually verify the student's identity.
File this one under parents complaining about privacy, in response to the solution to their earlier complaints about high lunch costs.
Most schools already issue student ID cards with bar codes on them, why not just scan that? If the school doesn't already have a student ID system then it sounds like the perfect time to start. For the younger aged students who would be less likely to remember their ID every day perhaps the cards can be stored in the classroom; the teacher can issue them prior to lunch and collect them after.
unhealthy foods are cheaper then healthy stuff and schools don't have the funds to have good healthy food. Also some of fatty foods / vending make cash for the schools.
I was born in 1990 and every single meal I purchased while I was in public school was through a computer system that kept track of when we ate, and later, what we ate. The excuse was that our state school system subsidizes only one meal per day per student (or two if they eat breakfast, at a different rate), so if you bought two meals, you had to pay about double the normal price for the second one. It's a sad realization that the school district is actually raking in $6 or more per every single tiny and disgusting portion they sell to students.
Training kids to eat poorly and to select the wrong foods is a form of child abuse. I do realize that our society has wrecked the idea of mom being at home to instruct children properly and many people simply do not take care of their kids. A school using technology to catch these problems sounds like a great idea to me.
Those sniffers that can spot drug use of parents in the home from the child's clothing are also fine with me. Let the light shine in!
I guess I don't see any validity to this monitoring. Unless I am missing something. The school should already know what they are serving the kids. And if they are ringing up the kids at a register, they know what they are selling. So they know what the kids are eating. They can track ALL of that WITHOUT having to identify each kid individually.
Where my kids go to school, you (optionally) put money on a card / account for your child. And your child swipes it. And they track everything. If you just want to monitor every kids purchase, follow that pattern. So one kid in line doesn't over hear some other kids number, and spout off other kids numbers throwing off meaningful statistics. I'd give a different number everyday until they catch me. (Being the mischievous kid I used to be)
...in Memphis schools the lunchroom PIN is the last four of their Social Security number (nice, right??) and all students are _required_ to wear a laser-scan (and RFID-embeded?) ID badge around their necks at all times with heavy penalties for non-compliance with a long list of rules about them.
Oh, and guess who has to pay for the badges...
And it only happened 15 years ago!
They need to be using biodegradable RFID tags instead. If we can make edible underwear, why FFS can't we make edible RFID tags? Think of the (unhealthy) children!
You know, I scanned the first 75 replies or so and I cannot recall a single one being from someone who actually claimed to have a kid in a school. So here's my take on the situation, as someone who has had 5 kids in school.
1) This isn't news. This has been going on for a long time now, as school districts strive to stop handling money. As a parent, I would *FAR* rather write a check every few months (or, better yet, this year they take Paypal!) to pay for my kids lunches, than try to find the exact damn change every day for my six year old.
2) I have a child who has struggled with weight issues from birth. Seeing as how she has two rail thin sisters (and they eat the same things), we have been working with her for about a year to emphasize better food choices and controlled portions. However, the simple fact is that schools do have choices in the cafeterias, especially starting in middle school. As such, I consider it a good tool for me to keep track of all my kids *SPENDING* and eating habits. I can tell if my high school freshman is guzzling down four packages of twinkies a day, or eating a real meal.
3) What, exactly, does anyone believe the schools will do with this information? They are already legally restricted in terms of dietary requirements (by state and federal regulation) and they are already legally restricted from divulging personal information of students. So, does anyone her seriously believe that they will start selling Hostess the names and eating habits of every child? Or that they will start writing contracts with companies simply to, what? Increase profit margins? Violate laws by bringing in unhealthy foods? Sorry, it won't happen.
I think that the bottom line here is that this really isn't a privacy violation. It's a tool to allow parents to control diet and spending of kids who might not be able to make the best decisions about such issues.
Bill
My girlfriend from Iowa said they were doing this in her middle school(different school district) 10 years ago.
10 years ago we had to use our Student ID card everytime we bought lunch at the school. So identifying the student with what was bought for lunch isn't new in any way shape or form here. Though I don't believe they compared it with some nutrition guideline back then, they still had the data.
If you tag them with subcutaneous microchips, they can't trade pins! Also, you could put their social security number on it and they'd be able to access accounts with a simple swipe for the rest of their lives! And if they're ever horribly dismembered, they'd just need to find the body part with the chip in it to figure out who they were! It's a win-win!
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
In some ways, this was genius. While you couldn't control (or tell) exactly what they purchased, you at least had control over how much they spent. Also: there was no risk of lost or stolen lunch money.
On the other hand, it was a privacy nuts worst nightmare - scanning kids. There were assurances that the ID gathered from the thumb was reduced to datapoints which could NOT be used to produce a new image, so no larger database concerns, but still creepy.
In the end, we just had our kids bring their lunches. The school lunches were high-fat crap, usually something fried or made entirely of cheese. Best estimates from our kids was that over half the kids brought lunch, and this was a reasonably affluent town. Crud, if they would just throw in an apple or something once in a while, they'd get more takers.
This was my school district when I was growing up! Back when I went, we had to have punch cards to eat lunch. If you didn't have a punch card, you didn't eat lunch. You also did not get a choice in lunch (unless you took your own). I dont see why this is required if they just go back to offering 1 lunch per day - the kids either take that or they dont. As long as you offer a lunch following the guidelines of the state law you are fine!
Also a PIN? Why a PIN!? Just give each kid a magnetic card to scan! Like I said, they already had to have punch cards before, so every kid is used to taking a card with them for lunch.
Wow, you just named a lot of allergens!
I know someone allergic to lettuce. I dated someone who was allergic to fish. A lot of people are allergic to legumes. Almonds are a common allergen, as are most tree nuts.
Google can find you examples of famous people with allergies to every one of those things you mentioned.
-- Terry
So the plan is to allow a 5 year old to pick whatever he wants, a la carte, for his lunch, then you are going to see if it matches state guidelines? Here's a hint. It won't. Ever. Then what, you send him back to start over? Best of all is that somehow they expect this to make things go faster. I don't think so.
My children each have a seven digit code, given to them in kindergarten. Its sole purpose is to track money on their account so they don't have to carry cash and the school doesn't have to make change. As for meals, they have a choice of two preplanned meals, pb and j, or they can pack. There is no a la carte and each meal costs the same. In addition, the school takes a count of each type of meal at the beginning of the day so that they have a good idea of how much to prepare. It would seem to me that a la carte choices would really complicate things.
'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
Program website:
http://ankeny.schoolfusion.us/modules/cms/pages.phtml?pageid=190047&sessionid=5df71ce111dfbc72890cf7f887fa1c5c
More info:
http://ankeny.schoolfusion.us/modules/cms/pages.phtml?sessionid=5df71ce111dfbc72890cf7f887fa1c5c&pageid=64839&sessionid&sessionid=5df71ce111dfbc72890cf7f887fa1c5c
Maybe instead of quoting/directing to "Fox News", interview the person in charge (page 1, bottom). /. can do better.
My children have had this set up in their school since my daughter started 4 years ago, but we don't use it. We pack our kids' lunches. Not really that expensive to do if you want to ensure your kids are eating healthy.
-- Stu
/. ID under 2,000. I feel old now.
Ftfa: the number will pull up the child's photo so the cashier can verify the identity.
That little check is in place at least.
That said children can go and purchase meals for each other. But it's pretty hard to purchase meals on someone else's account.
Make them take it doesn't mean that it will actually be eaten...
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
I scanned the first 75 replies or so and I cannot recall a single one being from someone who actually claimed to have a kid in a school.
It's quite understandable to miss when skipping, but here's one:
http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1781340&cid=33516052
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
My High School used to be able to track your consumption and cost by your school ID, the same ID you used to buy your parking pass and use the library. Parents could see how much money their children spend in a pseudo-credit account. The school would trend what the students would eat, and phase out the tasty "unhealthy" treats. By the time I graduated, all we had were baked fries, which could NOT be purchased without a meal, and soup. No more snack cakes, no sugary carbonated drinks, no sugary breakfast foods, nothin.. you got eff'd.
Mainly because their mom&dad said to report anyone that tells them "it'll be our little secret"
I can't quite put my finger on it, but there's something creepy about your post.
I was in grade school longer ago than that, and I had a great system I used all the way through high school. (also meaning to back up your comment on "one thing served, eat it or not". That's how it was, no choice.
My mom always made me a good bag lunch, plus one extra sandwich. The extra was a "food multiplier", as in 1,2,3...4 profit!. Now I am skinny but have always had a voracious appetite. What I would do is every day, I would find some kid who just couldn't stand whatever was on the cafeteria menu that day, and swap him or her that extra sandwich for a whole plate of food! Worked a charm!
The only exception was days my mom made me left over meatloaf sammies..damn..the best, I never swapped on those days. Every other day though, always found some kid to swap with.
My school had a pretty simple system. You had a choice of a meal or a salad bar. The meal got you a choice of Main A or B, Side A or B, and then you had a small choice of little desserts - cupcakes, etc. The main course choice was one item that changed daily, or a hamburger. (More like soyburger.) The side choice was one "healthy" choice which changed daily - broccoli and cheese, jello with fruit, corn, etc; then you had your staple french fries. It was a simple setup, and easy enough to keep track of. A person either usually got the circulating items 99% of the time, or a burger and fries 99% of the time, or a salad/baked potato 99% of the time. You were also allowed to purchase everything a la carte, all items cost $1 that way. The meal purchasing was $1.75, or $1 for a baked potato and toppings from the salad bar. You had the options of paying cash, or purchasing a "lunch card". You paid $10 on monday and got a little paper card, and it had 5 spaces on it. Each time you got the basic lunch, they punched a hole in one of the spaces. If you were on a free or reduced-lunch system, they had a big book full of names, and they would scan the appropriate barcode. It worked fine, and there certainly weren't problems with it. The lunch ladies would make polite, helpful suggestions during the junior high lunch hour, but during the other two lunch hours, they shushed and let the high schoolers make their own choices. And it worked. My graduating class had all of 3 overweight people, and *I* was the only one considered "obsese". I'd like to point out that my weight was solely from eating at home - I had anxiety issues and wouldn't even go into the school lunchroom. Therefore, I have doubts about this entire system in the first place. Using the book of barcodes and pictures was the only system throughout elementary school, and that was perfect then as well. Memorizing PINs just seems like a useless idea, no matter the grade of the student.
then of course, there's the human factor of being able to choose wtf we want to eat. sometimes, it's ok to say 'fuck science, I want a burger and fries.'
For an adult I completely agree...but as an adult you are deemed to be aware of the consequences of your actions whereas children are not. It is reasonable to expect an adult to know that it they eat a burger and chips every day there will be health consequences and so this is likely to temper the enthusiasm of most adults. However a 5 year old is extremely unlikely to be that restrained and will quite likely reason "I like burgers so I'll order one" every single day.
To me this school program sounds enlightened. It lets the kids choose what they want but still monitors them so that if they do make bad choices like burgers every single day they can take corrective action. This is EXACTLY what schools should do: let them make their own choices and then catch them if they make bad ones and the teach them about why the choices are bad. That way when they do become adults they are used to making decisions and, being aware that those decisions have consequences, their decisions will be informed ones.
I'm old enough that there weren't any lunch choices when I was in school. You got whatever the day's meal was. The military was like that back then, too. Federal prisons still work that way; the menu repeats every 35 days.
"Some adults I know would pay for this service in the real world..."
In the 60's we had a thing called a "lunch order". The parent would write the lunch order on a plain envelope and put the money inside. This was given to the teacher in the morning and at lunch time the lunch would be delivered to class with your name on it.
The results were; Kids didn't spend half their lunch time waiting in line, nor could they blow their money on sweets. Parents knew exactly what their kids were getting for lunch, and bullies had little opportunity to steal the money.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
My kids lunch code is 10 digits.
Seriously he's 6 years old and needs to enter a 10 digit PIN to spend $2.20 on his lunch...
Why can't Johnny just give his name to the cashier?
Technology blah blah blah tracking food habits blah blah blah but you can do it all by just asking the kid's name.
When I was in grade school, we had lunch tickets and milk tickets to take care of this money-handling problem. It worked out fine.
If the child forgets the PIN, it will go hungry that day?
45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
I predict that at the end of next month, little Debbie Povunktuk will be recorded as eating 500,000 calories all in mashed potatoes.
Then she must have gotten a lot of food from her friends or packed lunch from home. 500 kcal is not really that mush, it's literally a kids lunch.
This is about my 1st-grade child. I want to know what she eats. I, in fact, DO look over the report and check out what is happening with her. This is not about her right to privacy. This is about my knowing what she is up to.
Now, if the feds take this info and use it to apply individually to my daughter, THAT is big brother. But if I apply it, that is simply good parenting. And to be honest, I HOPE that the feds will take that same data, clean all the names and then make good use of it.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
I have a sale on SCUBA apparatus to sell you sir.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
As an actual parent who's kids have a PIN system I can tell you this is actually a good thing. Where we just came from, it let me load funds against their account, and tracked what was bought with it (i.e. school lunch or something from the snack line or ice cream). It did not go into nitnoid details about what was on their plate. For us, this was a great tool. When suddenly extra snacks started showing up on the chart every day, it let us have that responsiblity discussion with our daughter, because frankly kids don't make great choices some of the time. It's also a pretty good tool to introduce budgeting for a younger set where you can help them start to make the right decisions on their own.
They started at 5 years old as well. It allows me to see whether they purchase a meal, and whether they purchase something extra. What does the OP think is going to happen, the school is going to berate my kid about what they eat? That's my job.
A four-digit PIN is not "Big Brother" - not by any stretch of the imagination.
How can a parent avoid the glare of Big Brother in this case? Pack a lunch. Or pay with cash.
Would these parents have been happier if the school district asked each parent to fund a lunch account without ANY security? I doubt it.
Would they be happier with three digit PINs? Two? One?
I work in IT for a public school district (K-12), and we have a similar system in our cafeterias - many, many kids have PINs of 1234, 1111 and the like - and that works just fine.
As for checking the composition of a child's lunch, I'm certain it was either asked for or cheered for by a vocal minority of parents. That is how most changes occur in public schools, and they get away with it because most parents are complacent, trusting that the professionals they hired and elected to run the schools know what they are doing.
Ken
After reading the fucking article, it seems to me this is an attempt to comply with a stupid law which, while it sounded good on the ballet, has unintended consequences such as this.
I predict that at the end of next month, little Debbie Povunktuk will be recorded as eating 500,000 calories all in mashed potatoes.
C'mon... kids that age share all sorts of things... they won't understand that sharing their secret PIN is wrong. Mainly because their mom&dad said to report anyone that tells them "it'll be our little secret"
I don't know how this notion could have even been considered...
It's true kids do like to share. Food lunches are portioned. Everyone that has a pin will all get the same portion as everyone else, and what happens to the portions after that is anyone's guess.
I remember a commercial once where a kid was auctioning off a sandwich. Anyone else remember this commercial? I think it came from a brown bag lunch.
To spend money on a system like this is ludicrous!
Parents, teachers, data miners, if you want to know what your kids eat...go have lunch with them at their school.
Oh, yeah, and take the vending machines out while your there.
It reminded me more of a concentration camp move than big brother.
Especially since last year they had a card they showed and about an hour after lunch I could log into the parent portal and
see what they got for lunch. So it's that much different than last year.
Whether this is Big Brother or not, one can't deny that something needs to be done to address the obesity epidemic among America's young. It would seem that tracking what they eat would be a sensible step in that direction. In this case, as in many others, it might be reasonable to say that parents in the U. S. have largely defaulted on their part of the responsibility.
Given the source, I feel your pain.
To teachers I'm just another child,
To IRS I'm another file,
Just another statistic on the sheet.
I fell like just a number,
Spoke in a great big wheel.
Just a tiny blade of grass in a great big field.
Free Martian Whores!
The PIN number is for an account which is billed for their food. It's not to monitor what they eat, it's to monitor that they have actually payed for what they eat!
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
I never ate the crap pretending it was food in school.
I ate breakfast before and diner after but I never ate the tasteless, over-processed, artificially-flavored, artificially-colored, overcooked, salt-laden glop that they would slop on the plates.
YEEEWWW!
I am now a healthy, (apart from having contracted MS somehow,) svelte, muscular 56 year old.
I eschew all processed foods and monitor my blood pressure daily. I will NOT go like my 'rents after popping and artery in my brain.
I will go into my grave after all my friends have gone into theirs. Will I enjoy the wait though? Maybe. (Some of their daughters are cute. :-)
At least, I'll look healthy when I eventually do...
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
My kids' school has had this system for over 5 years. It's how their lunch is paid for. I pay into an online account, and they input their PIN to use the money for their lunch. I can monitor their purchases from the account online. I don't know (or care) if someone else can see or use the data. It's not like they're buying heroin with it.
Well, at least the bullies will only have to beat up the other kids once, instead of chasing them down for their lunch money every day. I'm sure they can think of other reasons, though.
They do have the money, and they have additional federal funding on top of that. What happens is it gets spent on other things (uniforms, facility improvements). Then Joe Vendor comes along and offers a tidy sum to 'handle' their lunches. Vendor pays for exclusive access, prices to match or exceed existing prices, then cuts their costs by 50% or more by serving crap. People complain but they have a 5+-year contract ironclad, and besides we already spent the money they paid us.
Some places don't do exclusive deals (like my high school). They contracted each weekday to a different local food service company. Tuesdays was pizza by Little Caesars, for instance. You were required to leave the line with every item on the menu, but you were not required to eat it. Aside from the main course, the food was actually pretty ok for bulk canned goods. It was a simple system: [ ] school meal [ ] home meal [ ] second serving.
Why are we offering so much choice that it's possible to eat nothing but junk food? I think that is the real problem, and if it was addressed there would be no need for dietary tracking. I could understand a choice of menus, maybe three, with one being vegetarian and avoiding common allergens. Many of the same benefits of a single menu system would apply, and students would still have a bit of a choice. No complicated tracking required, not even for account management.
-1 raving lunatic; +6 subGenius... Things even out...
This is not a case of Big Brother. This is a case of some random parent's paranoia. My daughter has had a 4 digit pin since she started school 8 years ago. Nothing of this program has to do with monitoring what the kids eat. The school has a set lunch, they know what they serve during the week. So they know what meals have what nutritional value already without having to monitor each individual child.
Most likely as with my kid they 4 digit pin is tied to his kids lunch account. Rather than having to take in money each day for lunch, I send my daughter with enough cash for the week, and at lunch it's just deducted from her account. The good thing about this system, is that it any surplus at the end of the year rolls over into her account the following year. So this year her account was already credited with $30. I know cause we received a statement from the school prior to the start of the school year. Her pin hasn't changed in all this time.
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
Honestly, if this was the case of my kid's school, I would be pretty angry. Doubly so if I were the kid. My reasoning is, roughly, as follows:
1. It is just another implementation of an all-seeing eye that sees all "sins" and reports to some higher authority. This is, in my opinion, a serious threat. Freedom is a real freedom only if it allows an option that can be self-destructive. Without it, we are no longer human beings, just slaves under supervision. Do we really want to teach our kids to be less than humans, to always rely on a higher supervision?
2. The current focus on "healthy" food starts to look like a twisted religion, pretty unhealthy in itself. People seem to believe that just "healthy lifestyle" will protect them against everything, exactly like old Catholics believed that spiritual purity is a key to eternal life. But this is simply not true; there are enormous numbers of illnesses that attack people regardless of what they eat; and finally we all will fall ill and die. Yes, of course the diet makes *some* difference, but it is not a panacea, and it is deeply unfair to poison kids' minds with pretending otherwise.
3. None of us, not even the school board, not even the state, is omniscient. Everyone can make mistakes. And the science of wellness and healthy life is an essay in mistakes; every few years it is revised, sometimes substantially, and every decade or so it is completely turned upside down. What if *we* are wrong and the kid's instincts are right?
4. Finally, every human is unique and slightly different in metabolism. Who is wise enough to decide what is the best for him/her? With problems like this, I always remember the Tales of Pirx the Pilot: "Ground control has no right to muck with the decisions of the captain. The situation may look different from the ground than in the commander's seat." Let the kid, as any other human, be in the commander's seat. It is their body, not ours.
C'mon... kids that age share all sorts of things...
Like their lunches. Sure, the school may know what the kid purchased, but since when does that mean that's what they ate? It's an invasion of privacy that will not get them the results they're looking for.
So let me see if I can get this right. This school wants to monitor what the kids are eating by making them memorize a four digit pin code. Lets see when I was five I was in Kindergarden, I was just starting to learn how to read and write. I had a hard time remembering which stop to get off at on the bus which is why I had a tag for the bus monitor to read and let me know I had to get off at the next stop.
This program has to be costing a fortune in public funds. A four digit pin code means that they are tracking each individual students dietary habits. Which of course requires more record keeping and analysis, for what purpose? Are they going to institute the fat police and call the student into the principal's office if they discover little Jimy isn't eating right and give him detention because he wanted a hamburger, fries, ketchup, and chocolate milk? Or do they intend to call a parent teacher conference to discuss their child's unhealthy eating habits? Or perhaps they are going to stop them in the lunch line, and tell little Suzzy that she can"t have that brownie because she's too fat?
If they really are concerned about the child's eating habbits they can monitor that by simple inventory control and observation of the caffeteria trash cans. They can even set up trash cans so that certain items go in certain cans. Milk cartons here, food there, etc. Much simplier, less expensive and less invasive upon the students. This isn't rocket science, hell it isn't even science. Maybe if we put a rocket scientist in charge of the school lunch program then they can get it all straightened out.
But this is in response to a new law.
We need to read the law and then read the
"type definitions" behind it.
As Jamie Oliver discovered the rules behind
the obvious are key. He discovered that
French fries were classified as VEGETABLES
and so are mashed potatoes.
When I went to elementary school I had a four digit pin code I used to access my lunch account. Your parents could restrict you from buying candy. This is nothing new.
My point is... that a state or committee-dictated healthy diet is impossible to arrive at universally, even if you throw out Kosher/Halal and other cultural and religious considerations out the window. Dictating the foods kids do or don't eat because of some arbitrary opinion on what constitutes "healthy" is doomed to failure.
-- Terry
On the surface its "iffy". If there are no other ulterior reason other than gathering info and not disclosing it to anyone (even the parents) I see not real objection.
HOWEVER many many many times an idea like this has been turned around into a highly intrusive scrutinizing and the data is allowed to go out into the wild with asome sort of child ID that is one of the big issues. Of course this always depends on the school and if they are honest and do not disclose anything to any outside interest then it is probably OK, IMO.