25 Years of Super Mario Bros.

harrymcc writes "On September 13th 1985, Nintendo released Super Mario Bros. for the Famicom (NES) in Japan. It went on to become the best-selling video game of all time, a title it only recently lost. Over at Technologizer, Benj Edwards is celebrating the anniversary with a look at some of the weirdest variations, spinoffs, and tributes the game has inspired over the years, from edibles to art projects." The Guardian's games blog adds a bunch of Mario-related trivia, and CVG attempts to explain the history of Mario games. Nintendo is capitalizing on the anniversary by announcing an upcoming collection of classic Mario games (Japanese site, English explanation) that have been ported to the Wii.

Comments

Twenty-five years?

[MyLongNickName]

Twenty-five years? Really? Damn... I'm old.

Re:Twenty-five years?

[Pojut]

The original is still a tough as nails game. There are plenty of harder Mario games out there, but Super Mario Bros. is still crazy brutal.

Re:Twenty-five years?

[commodore64_love]

You think that's old? It's been 33 years since I first laid hands on an Atari console (still one of my favorite machines) with its Commodore-produced 6502 CPU and TIA sound/graphics chip (with an amazing 30x20 resolution).

The Famicom was released in 1983 so we're talking about 27 year old technology! Its contemporaries were the Intellivision, Colecovision, Atari 5200 SuperSystem, Apple IIc/e, and C=64. (The Mac and Amiga didn't even exist yet.) Ancient, old, ancient technology. But hella fun.

Re:Twenty-five years?

[Hatta]

It's not as hard as you remember it. Anyone with a little aptitude and practice can beat SMB. Compared to other games on the NES (Ninja Gaiden, Castlevania, etc) it's a walk in the park.

Re:Twenty-five years?

[Pojut]

Never said it was the most difficult game, just still difficult.

I'd also like to point out that the two games you mentioned (Ninja Gaiden and Castlevania) were notorious for knocking you back when you got hit...the cause of the vast majority of deaths associated with both of those games :-)

Re:Twenty-five years?

[jandrese]

Also, because unlike Mario, Ninja Gaiden started you out with fairly high difficulty. There were boxers on the very first level where if you mistimed your sword swing even a little bit (easy, because the sword was very short), then they could stunlock and kill you. Level 1, first stage. That's how you tell your players that you're not screwing around.

Re:Twenty-five years?

[Anonymous Coward]

25 years later, I'm still trying to get to the end.

1-1 to 1-2
1-2 to 4-1 via warp
4-1 to 4-2
4-2 to 8-1 via warp
8-1 to 8-2
8-2 to 8-3
8-3 to 8-4
Be careful
Run under the king
Grab the axe
game over.

If you still can't do it, use savestates. Once you've done it once, the next few times are a breeze.

Do it with a few friends and drinks to make it even more fun.

Re:Twenty-five years?

[Alexandra Erenhart]

Zelda: The Adventure of Link I dare you name a harder game than that.

Re:Twenty-five years?

[irwtdvoys]

The trouble with warp whistles...

Re:Twenty-five years?

[ProppaT]

The Adventure of Link wasn't all that hard, honestly.

You want difficult? Play Battletoads. I think that's the game that invented controller throwing.

Re:Twenty-five years?

[Sancho]

Easy. Superman 64.

Re:Twenty-five years?

[Khashishi]

Battletoads

Re:Twenty-five years?

[mattack2]

I think the Mega Man games also "tell your players that you're not screwing around." I have only played them on the PS2 collection, but the first one is very difficult (I haven't even gotten to the later ones).

Re:Twenty-five years?

[mattack2]

Are you talking about the 2600? The 2600 uses a 6507, not a 6502. Also, was its production outsourced to Commodore? I have never heard that and don't see confirmation in a brief skim of the wikipedia article.

Re:Twenty-five years?

[Globe199]

I'll second this. Good lord, I remember spending hours and hours getting thru Death Mountain to find the hammer. Then fighting, fighting, fighting thru that awful path that led to the final palace. Then trying in vain to beat that god damn blue/red Thunderbird (and failing, until 2002 when I could use an emulator and cheat codes). I finally got to see the ending, which was lame, but at least I finished the game.

I'll also second the comments about Ninja Gaiden, which, come to think of it, was much harder than even Zelda II. All the Ninja Gaiden games were great, but horrendously difficult to the point that I never finished any of them without a game genie.

Re:Twenty-five years?

[theaveng]

The Famicom was released in 1983 so we're talking about 27 year old technology! Its contemporaries were the Intellivision, Colecovision, Atari 5200 SuperSystem, Apple IIc/e, and C=64.

I would have modded this +1 Informative myself.
Or interesting. Or insightful. Definitely not "troll" Mr. Moderator.

Re:Twenty-five years?

[Alexandra Erenhart]

LOL I remember that one, stupid game. I still find Zelda harder :)

I also had Snake: Rattle&Roll. I was never able to reach the last stage and I consider myself a pretty good gamer. Then some months ago I saw a youtube video where someone beats it in 11 minutes. I hated each and every minute of it, that game was a bit of a child trauma for me haha.

Re:Twenty-five years?

[Alexandra Erenhart]

Old 8 and 16 bits games beat the crap out of most recent games when it comes to difficulty. Nowdays it seems it's all about eye candy (cough cough I'm looking at you FFXIII), but the games never last more than 20-30 hours unless they're mmorpgs or really good rpgs/adventure games. And even then they're rather easy and you go through content without much problems. Kids and teenager gamers have no idea what they missed.

Re:Twenty-five years?

[Ethanol-fueled]

Have you played marble madness? I think it was from the same company that did Snake Rattle and Roll. Both games had that kinda 3-d thing, and both were tough as hell.

Re:Twenty-five years?

[Tetsujin]

I think the Mega Man games also "tell your players that you're not screwing around." I have only played them on the PS2 collection, but the first one is very difficult (I haven't even gotten to the later ones).

I think the first Rockman was a little less forgiving than the sequels. It was certainly a lot less polished overall. Then again, it could just be that since I started the series with Rockman 2, it may be that I think the first game is harder just because I haven't played it as much.

Re:Twenty-five years?

[Sancho]

Interestingly, I think a lot of the old 8- and 16-bit games were difficult because of poor programming. Bad collision-detection and poor controls are high on the list of what made a lot of games hard. Super Mario Bros. head pretty bad controls--far from the worst on the NES, but probably the worst out of the entire series.

Then you have bad design patterns that were repeated over and over throughout the industry--enemies that respawn if a particular tile goes offscreen, being knocked back uncontrollably by enemies (often into pits), enemies which simply can't be avoided or killed no matter what you try... It's really a combination of these three which made Ninja Gaiden (and many other games) super hard. Difficulty without frustration is hard to achieve, but modern games do better at it.

Of course, death and repetition are what made games last any reasonable amount of time in the early NES days. Before you had passwords and saves, forcing you to master every level to get to the end was part of the experience. That's not universally true--some games like Metroid had an explorative element that extended playing time.

Re:Twenty-five years?

[Tetsujin]

Zelda: The Adventure of Link

I dare you name a harder game than that.

You know what I found really hard in that game?

One of the towns you can access at the very beginning of the game, there's a kid who tells you to go West. He tells you this even if you haven't been to the first castle yet - which is really annoying because you need to beat the first castle in order to get the jump boots you'll need if you go West...

I spent some time this year replaying Zelda II from the beginning. I made it to the final palace but I haven't beaten the game (in this run) yet. I got frustrated and switched to Castlevania III. XD

Re:Twenty-five years?

[Tetsujin]

I never played much Super Mario Bros., but go all the way back to Mario Bros. (without the "Super"), and I remember dumping $20 into that machine in a single afternoon— and $20 was an outrageous amount of money for an 11-year old in 1983.

You know, one of the truly great things about Mario Bros., one of the reasons I still play it today, from time to time... The two-player mode is great if you want to be a vindictive bastard to your friends. :)

Re:Twenty-five years?

[Sancho]

I started with Mega Man, and I agree. Try playing them one right after the other, and you'll notice that the controls tightened up significantly with the sequel--which is a huge improvement and makes the platformer much easier.

Re:Twenty-five years?

[mirix]

I'm rather surprised I didn't break any of my controllers or TV after playing that dirty bugger.

I did have a friend that claimed to be able to beat it. Forget if I ever witnessed anyone do it, though.

Re:Twenty-five years?

[Anarki2004]

Easy. Superman 64.

That wasn't the hardest game ever, just the shittiest.

Re:Twenty-five years?

[Anonymous Coward]

I smashed an NES over that fucking game. Imagine the scene from "Office Space" where the printer gets a gang beatdown. That was me, at age 10. Hell, I tried *cheating* my way to finally beating it a couple of years ago.

I couldn't beat it with an emulator. That game is the hardest game I ever attempted.

Re:Twenty-five years?

[theaveng]

The 2600 uses a 6507, not a 6502

You are correct but it's the same difference really. Just as my 386SX laptop is still a 386, just minus some data lines. Or a 486SX4 is 486 but clocked three times faster. It's the same basic CPU, and yes Commodore owned the company (MOS) that made the 650x, 850x, and 65816. They basically got their PET, VIC20, C64, C128, Plus/4 and other computer CPUs for free (at cost).

Re:Twenty-five years?

[mattack2]

WDC made/makes the 65816, not MOS.

You're right, I hadn't realized that Commodore bought MOS (in 1976). ...and I realize I'm nitpicking about 6502 vs 6507, but for something like the Atari 2600, it makes a difference since the added limitations (smaller address space, no interrupts) are significant.

Re:Twenty-five years?

[mattack2]

I guess I should try the subsequent ones again. I think I misspoke earlier.. I think the first one is the only one I played significantly, but I at least played one or two others for a few minutes, and they seemed at first to be just as difficult.

Re:Twenty-five years?

[Alexandra Erenhart]

Yeah I guess what you say is true. But there are still a lot of inherent difficulty in old games that isn't related to poor programming/designing/other, but just pure, raw difficulty. I remember some Megaman (Rockman for the purists) games, where you had to actually jump in the last pixel of the platform you were in, because the jump wasn't long enough to reach the next one if you didn't do it. I guess you master it through trial/error and lots of repetitions, but isn't everything in life like that? Maybe I'm going too far in it, but old games looked more like real life than new ones heh. They taught you patience!

Re:Twenty-five years?

[Ailure]

Atari made the orginal Marble Madness, I think Rare ported it over to NES.

I suspect the Marble Madness engine was either reused (very uncommon back in those days), or experience from it was reused in the Snake Rattle n Roll game later on.

Re:Twenty-five years?

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Old 8 and 16 bits games beat the crap out of most recent games when it comes to difficulty.

Do a search for the "Angry Video Game Nerd" or "Angry Nintendo Nerd" and watch the videos. That'll shed some light on the difficulty of those old games.

Re:Twenty-five years?

[Globe199]

I think you may be right; I never thought of it that way. Still, as you alluded to, the games were enjoyable despite their poor development.

Then of course there was Rygar. Ridiculously difficult and no save feature.

Re:Twenty-five years?

[Anonymous Coward]

You know, one of the truly great things about Mario Bros., one of the reasons I still play it today, from time to time... The two-player mode is great if you want to be a vindictive bastard to your friends. :)

Heh heh. You mean like bumping a turtle onto its back, waiting for your friend to come along to give it the boot, and then at the last second bumping it back upright? Naw, I'd never do a thing like that. ;)

Re:Twenty-five years?

[Alexandra Erenhart]

I have, and I laugh so much at them because I feel so related to what he says and the problems he has with the games

Re:Twenty-five years?

[teslar]

being knocked back uncontrollably by enemies (often into pits)

What, as opposed to being knocked very uncontrollably onto a health pack? Why would an enemy want to do that? Surely knocking you into pits or at least making sure you lose control is pretty high up on the enemy's to-do list, so while I agree with the rest of what you say, this is a strange criticism.

You should also add bad English to the list of things that make some games difficult. What were supposed to be helpful hints become mere cryptic messages. I'm looking at you, original Zelda.
Then there were things that simply made no sense. Why could the blue candle only be lit once per screen, forcing you to exit and re-enter it until you've checked every damn bush (or several of them at once, but still) for something shiny? Things like that just made the game longer not by making it harder but simply by increasing the legwork you had to do. I think those were the things I hated most. Bad controls and so on, I could live with - eventually, you learned how to master them. You figured out what the actual collision detection was rather than what it should have been. You understood where a particular enemy would throw you and could use it to your advantage if the guy was really unavoidable. But spending 5 mins on burning bushes just cos the blue candle is rubbish? Please.

Re:Twenty-five years?

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

Difficulty without frustration is hard to achieve, but modern games do better at it.

I disagree. There can be no real difficulty without some degree of frustration. In order for a game to be truly enjoyable, the player needs to be challenged; forced to improve their gameplay and overcome the obstacle. This can't be done with infinite re-spawns/liberal checkpoints. If you take that route, the game becomes a forgettable "story" experiencing and you've lost the essence of the medium.

Which isn't to say that masochism for its own sake makes for a better game either--Ninja Gaiden is one of the worst offenders in modern times. You see, there's a difference between a Hard Game and a Stupidly Hard Game. Many designers miss this point.

In a Stupidly Hard Game, the computer is incredibly cheap and can essentially hit/kill you at virtually any time no matter what you do. Your fate is largely up to luck. In a simply Hard Game--while things might be difficult--every time you are hit/killed, it will be clear to the player that this occurred because they made a mistake/omission which could have been (reasonably) avoided. The difference is that in one game the difficulty is an ever present obstacle, and the game becomes an exercise in flagellation; in the other, the player is afforded the control and freedom to overcome and ultimately master the difficulty, opening up the true potential of the game.

A good example of a hard game which forced players to improve themselves was Devil May Cry 3. In the beginning, the player had their ass handed to them at every turn, and faced seemingly impossible odds. However, by improving their play and rising to the challenge, the game allows players to complete entire levels on the highest difficulty setting without even being hit, and indeed requires them to in order to obtain the highest level rank. This is a game which was designed to force the player to improve, and it is a better game for it.

Super Mario is such a game, particularly if you consider the Lost Levels. The player faces ever more challenging levels which force them to improve their gameplay, all while staying within the relatively simple initial framework. Though composed of simple elements, the gameplay is in fact quite deep and forcing the player to improve themselves and explore this depth improves the game immensely. Consider for example the Star and Special levels in Super Mario World. Without these (at times nigh impossible) levels, the game would not hold the charm it does for many, and unofficial expansions like Kazio and Infinite Mario would probably not exist because people would be unaware of the depth on offer in the game.

But open up such depth, the player must be challenged, and that means they must place themselves at risk and yes, experience some degree of frustration. There's a balancing act here, but lean too far away from frustration and you end up with a game like Dead Space which, while technically difficult, gave checkpoints so freely that it could conceivably be reduced to a game of trial and error.

Re:Twenty-five years?

[Sancho]

I think it must depend upon the degree of frustration, or the type of person you are.

I don't often get frustrated by games unless I feel that luck has a huge role, or if a particularly difficult move is required and I have no ability to practice that particular move unless I spend ten minute getting to a particular point in the game.

Ninja Gaiden has the latter in spades. I consider it frustrating.

Mario Kart Wii has the former in spades. Damned blue shells.

Re:Twenty-five years?

[Sancho]

I'm not talking about realism, or "what the enemy would want." It's about game design. What's the point of a health bar if the enemy can stun-lock you until you die? What's the point if there are so many pits that a single hit is instant death unless you are very lucky? These things, in my opinion, make a game very frustrating.

Re:Twenty-five years?

[Sancho]

I think it was both. I knew many people who couldn't make it past the first stage. One eventually threw the game away in disgust.

Re:Twenty-five years?

[Sancho]

Don't get me wrong--they're all hard. But I think that the sloppy controls in 1 made it a bit hard.

Re:Twenty-five years?

[Sancho]

I agree that many old-school games had these characteristics. Most of the ones I remember were the ones which also had very good mechanics.

Re:Twenty-five years?

[Sancho]

There's a special Hell for the developers who designed the Rygar port.

I left that one on pause once overnight, and came back to an overheated (and locked up) NES. I think that's the last time I played the game until I got a Game Genie.

Re:Twenty-five years?

[ProppaT]

I have a friend who claims to have beaten Battletoads as well. IMO, this game is a "pics or it didn't happen" situation. When I was a kid, I actually had a disposable camera to take pictures of games I'd beat. Other kids just wouldn't believe you beat some of these game otherwise. I beat some bad games, too...but in the 80s, you played what was available.

Re:Twenty-five years?

[gauauu]

Zelda: The Adventure of Link I dare you name a harder game than that.

Are you even serious? Other than the thunderbird at the very end, that game was quite easy. Some games that are harder:

Battletoads
Blaster Master
Ghosts n Goblins
Snake Rattle n Roll
Ninja Gaiden 3 (the hardest of the series)
Kid Icarus
Castlevania 3

Of those, contrary to popular belief, I think that Snake Rattle n Roll is the hardest. It's the only one I wasn't able to beat on the actual NES....

Re:Twenty-five years?

[Alexandra Erenhart]

Eastmost peninsula is the secret!

Re:Twenty-five years?

[Alexandra Erenhart]

But you can't beat the lady that invites you over her house to "recover you". Link can't wait around for Zelda forever!

Re:Twenty-five years?

[Tetsujin]

But you can't beat the lady that invites you over her house to "recover you". Link can't wait around for Zelda forever!

That's true! And if you're into it, you can even spend some time getting "replenished" by the old lady, too!

But Link doesn't have to wait around for Zelda - this time around he knows exactly where she is. All he needs to get to her is those jump boots...

Re:Twenty-five years?

[lenwar]

How can knowing your age be modded as Insightful?

Re:Twenty-five years?

[Globe199]

Probably no one will see this reply, but I'm looking at the Ninja Gaiden video on AVGN now.

Holy christ does this bring back memories. Stage 6-2 is giving him the biggest problem, and I remember the exact spot in the game where he loses it. Keep in mind this is almost 20 years ago that I played thru it, but it's burned in my mind. Wow.

Heads up on that Mario collection

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

it's just a Wii port of Mario All Stars that came out in the US for SNES, same graphics and all.

The booklet and the soundtrack seem interesting packins though.

Re:Heads up on that Mario collection

[eln]

The included games (other than possibly Lost Levels) are also already available on the Wii's Virtual Console for about 5 bucks each. I guess this could be an interesting collector's item for Mario enthusiasts, but for the average schmo just looking for a trip down memory lane, the virtual console route seems like a cheaper and easier way to get these particular games.

Re:Heads up on that Mario collection

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

The package is 2,500 yen, which is about 5 bucks a game with a 5 buck CD and booklet.

Plus SM All Stars isn't on Wii Virtual Console either.

Re:Heads up on that Mario collection

[AndrewNeo]

There is a difference though, where the games on VC are NES games, and Super Mario All Stars is an SNES game. The graphics and sound are a higher quality.

Re:Heads up on that Mario collection

[bonch]

The All-Stars version of Super Mario Bros. has inaccurate physics when jumping and breaking a brick, unfortunately. Mario keeps rising in altitude instead of immediately falling down, which sounds minor but affects you if you're used to running and hitting bricks without stopping like in the original.

For years, I thought I was the only one who ever noticed this, but I see that it's mentioned at TMK.

Re:Heads up on that Mario collection

[Waffle Iron]

The All-Stars version of Super Mario Bros. has inaccurate physics when jumping and breaking a brick

I think that *all* Mario games have inaccurate physics when jumping and breaking a brick. If they used accurate physics, Mario would fall to the ground unconscious immediately after whacking his head.

Re:Heads up on that Mario collection

[Stormwatch]

With accurate physics, the blocks wouldn't be floating in the first place.

Re:Heads up on that Mario collection

[Tetsujin]

The All-Stars version of Super Mario Bros. has inaccurate physics when jumping and breaking a brick

I think that *all* Mario games have inaccurate physics when jumping and breaking a brick. If they used accurate physics, Mario would fall to the ground unconscious immediately after whacking his head.

First, Mario punches the bricks with his fist when he jumps.
Second, he's saying that All Stars' version of Super Mario Brothers is an incorrect reproduction of the original game. Basically when you jump up and break a block, you keep moving up instead of getting bounced back down. It's kind of an annoying bug once you notice it. But yeah, his word choice was incorrect. :)

Personally I think the NES games didn't look so great on the SNES, particularly the first two. (Super Mario 1 and the game that was released in Japan as Super Mario 2) The simple soundtrack and graphics don't lend themselves well to embellishment IMO. The SNES version of the overworld theme in particular, with the different instruments and stuff, to me it sounds almost like a parody.

Re:Heads up on that Mario collection

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

SMB3 All Stars version is worth the SMB1/2 quirks TBH. It's even better than the GBA Mario Advance 4.

Re:Heads up on that Mario collection

[QuantumBeep]

I want you to go back and read what you just said.

Re:Heads up on that Mario collection

[bonch]

Mario doesn't hit the bricks with his head.

You just got SERVED.

Re:Heads up on that Mario collection

[DrugCheese]

I think that *all* Mario games have inaccurate physics when jumping and breaking a brick. If they used accurate physics, Mario would fall to the ground unconscious immediately after whacking his head.

He breaks the bricks with his fist, not his head.

really?

[xenapan]

mario is older than me by a month and a day!

Re:really?

[MyLongNickName]

Get off my lawn!

Re:really?

[damn_registrars]

mario is older than me by a month and a day!

Although I suspect it took you a bit longer before you could throw fireballs out of your nose...

What will google do?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm already looking forward to the google doodle... Mario in js would be awesome...

Re:What will google do?

[froggymana]

My guess would be that they would do it in HTML5 like they have been doing a lot of things in.

Re:What will google do?

[Dragonslicer]

Super Mario Crossover. Not quite JavaScript, but still pretty damn fun.

And today is also...

[The MAZZTer]

Programmers' Day, the 256th day of the year. Quite a coincidence.

The Best-Selling Video Game of All Time...

[Monkey]

For anyone wondering, the "best-selling video game of all time" is Wii Sports.

Re:The Best-Selling Video Game of All Time...

[AndrewNeo]

35 million Wiis sold in the US since launch, every copy bundled with Wii Sports. (Wikipedia (I know, but it's sourced)) I'm not including Japan (wasn't bundled) and rest-of-world (because I don't know if it comes bundled) but that still beats your Atari number.

Re:The Best-Selling Video Game of All Time...

[radish]

Well you could try this. It lists Wii Sports at over 66 million, which is over twice the total number of 2600's sold (according to this). It's kind of in a league of it's own, but then it was also bundled with the console which disqualifies it from the list in some people's eyes. The highest selling unbundled game is Wii Play AFAIK.

Re:The Best-Selling Video Game of All Time...

[AndrewNeo]

Oops, wrong anchor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii#System_sales

Re:The Best-Selling Video Game of All Time...

[Pojut]

May we have a citation for your claim that Wii Sports is the best-selling?

Here you go.

Re:The Best-Selling Video Game of All Time...

[Binestar]

I bought Wii Play because it came with an extra wiimote, the game itself sucked =/. Same price for wiimote vs Wii Play so figured I'd get the game with my wiimote.

Re:The Best-Selling Video Game of All Time...

[hansamurai]

If we're including pack-in games (which Wii Sports is in North America, but not in Japan), then wouldn't Solitaire be the best selling game of all time? It was "sold" with hundreds of millions of copies of Windows.

Re:The Best-Selling Video Game of All Time...

[The MAZZTer]

What if we don't count bundles but only stand-alone sales?

Re:The Best-Selling Video Game of All Time...

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

What if we don't count bundles but only stand-alone sales?

What if people bought the system because they wanted that game?

Re:The Best-Selling Video Game of All Time...

[lgw]

If we don't count bundled games, I suspect Bejeweled wins with >50 million units.

If we do count bundled games, I suspect the games bundled with Windows XP win.

Re:The Best-Selling Video Game of All Time...

[vux984]

What if we don't count bundles but only stand-alone sales?

You can't really.

Many of the best selling games sales numbers have been boosted due to being part of bundles for at least part of their run. Around here Halo 3:ODST, and Forza 3 were part of an xbox bundle a while ago. Today Futureshop is advertising a barebones xbox, and an xbox with 2 wireless controllers and a hard drive bundled with Halo:Reach. When it was launched in Brazil, you could ONLY get the Premium package with Perfect Dark 0, Kameo:EoP, and PGR3...

There becomes no realistic way to really separate out the bundles from game sales.

Re:The Best-Selling Video Game of All Time...

[Monkey]

Not counting console bundled games like #1 Wii Sports (41.65m) #2 SMB (40.24m),and #4 Tetris ( bundled with original Gameboy, 30.26m), #5 Duck Hunt (included in the NES bundle that came with the orange gun, 28.31m), you might be surprised to find out that Pokemon games are the top contenders with the #3 overall spot held by Pokémon Red, Green, and Blue (31.38m) and #6 Pokémon Gold and Silver (23.11m).

Some other titles are #7 Nintendogs (21.60m), #8 Super Mario World (bundled with the SNES, 20.61m) and #9 Wii Play (20.30m).

Re:The Best-Selling Video Game of All Time...

[HelioWalton]

Same. I think in the end though, I bought around 25 of them. Reselling the set parted out (wiimote, and game individually) netted a nice profit...

Re:The Best-Selling Video Game of All Time...

[Patch86]

Super Mario Bros. was bundled with the console originally too. Presumably we weren't disqualifying that.

Mine was a SMB/Duck Hunt twin-pak, and was awesome I might add.

Re:The Best-Selling Video Game of All Time...

[Jiro]

I think for bundles the question is whether someone is likely to buy it for the bundled items rather than the game. Therefore, Wii Play shouldn't count since a lot of people buy it mainly for the remote and don't want the game. On the other hand, the Halo bundles mentioned above pretty much all go to people who would be buying Halo anyway if there was no bundle.

If you go by the Wikipedia article and ignore this sort of bundle the top games are Nintendogs (23.26M), Wii Fit (22.61M), Mario Cart Wii (22.55M), New Super Mario Bros (22.49M) and Pokemon Red/Blue (20.68M). However, Pokemon is tricky because Pokemon games normally come out with an updated version a while later. Does Yellow count as Pokemon Red/Blue or a second title? Using Wikipedia's sources gives 20.68 + 3.16 (Japan Yellow) + 5.10 (US Yellow) = 28.94. And then there's the fact that the list which has Pokemon at 31.38 is from a different source. Which source is right? (It's not that one source is more up to date--those early Pokemons are from years ago and don't have recent sales updates.)

Re:The Best-Selling Video Game of All Time...

[Tetsujin]

What if we don't count bundles but only stand-alone sales?

Then your mom would probably win.

What, are you saying his mom hasn't had a substantial number of pack-in sales?

Re:The Best-Selling Video Game of All Time...

[FiloEleven]

Wii Play is overall not so good, but I found both Laser Hockey and Tanks (especially co-op Tanks) to be quite fun. Mine was $10 more than just a Wiimote, but those two games contained within ended up being worth more than $10 to me.

Re:The Best-Selling Video Game of All Time...

[SnarfQuest]

If you count Solitaire as a game, then the last 20 years of my, as well as many others, working lives will be counted as nonproductive! You cannot do that to us minions!

Re:The Best-Selling Video Game of All Time...

[guyminuslife]

Not to mention every deck of cards!

Sims or Tetris

[tepples]

Probably The Sims series (125 million) or authentic Tetris games (70 million).

Re:Sims or Tetris

[Tetsujin]

Probably The Sims series (125 million) or authentic Tetris games (70 million).

Yeah, but the SMB record was for one game...

By a Large Margin

[bigspring]

The answer to your question is: Wii Sports.

Re:By a Large Margin

[Pojut]

For anyone about to dispute this due to Wii Sports being a pack-in, might I remind you that Super Mario Bros. was also a pack-in title.

Re:By a Large Margin

[bluefoxlucid]

Super Mario Bros 3 was the best selling video game of all time that wasn't a pack-in lol....

Re:By a Large Margin

[c 0xFF]

Also, a lot of people buy the console because of the pack-in games. I suspect that's especially true with the NSES and Wii.

Re:By a Large Margin

[Pojut]

Super Mario Bros 3 was the best selling video game of all time that wasn't a pack-in lol

You sure about that? The Challenge Set disagrees with you.

Re:Sounds doubtful

[mark72005]

Probably counting the game coming as a pack-in with the system a "sale"

Re:Who's #1 then

[Anonymous Coward]

According to the SMB Wikipedia article, its Wii Sports. Purportedly because it comes bundled.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Mario_Bros.#cite_note-3

Dangerous Dave in Copyright Infringement

[Anonymous Coward]

The PC Mario game that went on becoming Commander Keen.

Re:Dangerous Dave in Copyright Infringement

[hedwards]

Erm, what? You do realize that the same group of developers that did Dangerous Dave did Commander Keen, right? And that further more apart from being platformers, they really didn't have that much in common.

Re:Dangerous Dave in Copyright Infringement

[Tetsujin]

With special guest stars, The Great Giana Sisters!

Re:Dangerous Dave in Copyright Infringement

[g_rampage]

That's what (s)he is saying. Dangerous Dave in Copyright Infringement was a PC clone of Super Mario Bros (3, I think). After Nintendo rejected their offer to port it to PC they made Commander Keen.

One of Commodore's best sellers

[commodore64_love]

..... I'm talking about the 8-bit 6502 of course. ;-) Okay yes it was second-sourced but Commodore still made money off the patent/license times 50 millions NESes sold. They also made-out well on the 16-bit 6502 variant inside the Super Nintendo
.

Re:One of Commodore's best sellers

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

I thought the 6502 was a Motorola reference design?

Re:One of Commodore's best sellers

[jandrese]

Motorola charged too much for the chip, that's why Commodore released a (nearly) pin compatible replacement for much cheaper and made a killing.

Re:One of Commodore's best sellers

[theaveng]

Commodore had nothing to do with the 6502

MOS was owned by Commodore. i.e. Same company. In fact one reason Commodore VIC-20 and 64 was so much cheaper than the competition was because they charged Atari, Apple, et cetera thrice the price that Commodore charged itself, so they could sell computers at only $150 each. Atari/Apple couldn't even get close.

Re:One of Commodore's best sellers

[mattack2]

..... I'm talking about the 8-bit 6502 of course. ;-) Okay yes it was second-sourced but Commodore still made money off the patent/license times 50 millions NESes sold. They also made-out well on the 16-bit 6502 variant inside the Super Nintendo

Umm, Ricoh made the Ricoh 5A22 for the Super Nintendo, which is a variant of the WDC 65c816.

Re:One of Commodore's best sellers

[flydpnkrtn]

That's not really the complete story though... Commodore bought out MOS after they'd already made the 'lawsuit compatible' 6502...

"MOS Technology, Inc was a microprocessor manufacturing company founded by entrepreneurs leaving the Allen-Bradley company, most famous for its creation of the ubiquitous 6502 processor. It was acquired by Commodore International in September of 1976, and was brought into Commodore's umbrella subdivision Commodore Semiconductor Group (CSG)."

http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/MOS_Technology (which is sourced from the book 'On the Edge: The Rise and Fall of Commodore')

Re:One of Commodore's best sellers

[theaveng]

If we're not allowed to give credit to Commodore for the technologies it bought from others (6502, Amiga, etc)

then that means we can't give credit to Microsoft for..... well anything really. Likewise Apple deserves only about 1/4 the accolades it receives.

Re:Who's #1 then

[Pojut]

Super Mario Bros was also a pack in title, for quite a long time.

How are so many people forgetting this?

Re:Sounds doubtful

[blair1q]

Everyone bought the console to get the game. Didn't you know that?

Nowhere near that long

[Itninja]

I warped to World 8 and for me it's only been like 5 years.

Re:Who's #1 then

[hedwards]

I'm guessing that most of them either weren't into gaming or aren't old enough to remember. Personally, I remember that, I also remember the championship edition, which came with the track game and pad. I also remember that crazy robot thing that could play games, the power glove and that awesome light gun. Too bad it doesn't work on non-CRT televisions.

Re:Who's #1 then

[jandrese]

Yeah, turns out the best selling game is the one that's the pack-in for the best selling console. Go figure.

Re:And yet...

[DIplomatic]

...games released this year will be based on the same characters, plot devices and game mechanics as that title a quarter century ago. It's all summed up in Nintendo's motto: Why create when you can copy?

And yet I would rather play 100 games that feature Mario unnecessarily than yet another greyish-brown FPS where the protagonist is some sort of grizzled space marine. Say what you will about Nintendo and Mario games, but by and large they are fun.

Interesting product but not economical

[damn_registrars]

So they are offering the first 4 Super Mario Bros games on one disc for around $30. The same 4 games can be purchased for your Wii through the virtual console for $5 each - totaling $20. I guess if the disc, manual, and soundtrack are worth another $10 to you, then go for it. Otherwise just buy the ones you want (or all 4 of them) as downloads and enjoy the savings.

Re:Interesting product but not economical

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

So they are offering the first 4 Super Mario Bros games on one disc for around $30. The same 4 games can be purchased for your Wii through the virtual console for $5 each - totaling $20.

The disc has the Super Mario All Stars (16-bit) versions of the games. Unless SMAS is on the SNES Virtual Console, you're not getting the same games, you're getting the versions with much better graphics and sound.

On an un-related note, I worked at Funcoland back when the original Playstation and N64 came out. We dealt primarily with used games and we could not keep Super Mario All Stars in stock to save our lives. They'd actually pay up to $30 in store credit to get that collection and nobody wanted to give it up. I don't blame them. It was a nice upgrade and they even retained the glitches that made the first one so charming.

Re:Interesting product but not economical

[Joe Tie.]

I will never understand why something like mario all stars wasn't more popular among game companies. There's so many old nes properties that were fun, loved by everyone, and could have gotten a huge benefit from a graphical makeover and collection. You'd even see things like the mega man collection for the mega drive, or the snes ninja gaiden collection. But they'd miss the opportunity and make only the most minor of graphic upgrades.

Re:Interesting product but not economical

[damn_registrars]

I will never understand why something like mario all stars wasn't more popular among game companies. There's so many old nes properties that were fun, loved by everyone, and could have gotten a huge benefit from a graphical makeover and collection. You'd even see things like the mega man collection for the mega drive, or the snes ninja gaiden collection. But they'd miss the opportunity and make only the most minor of graphic upgrades.

You mean like Battletoads?
Br

Re:Interesting product but not economical

[mattack2]

But I suspect that the (majority of the) people who would want such a collection wouldn't *want* "graphic upgrades". They'd want the games as they originally came out (at least optionally).

I've bought various game collections (e.g. for PS2), sometimes even of games I hadn't played previously (e.g. Mega Man), and I'd want the original game.

(It's similar to people not wanting DVD releases that have changed music (too may to mention), the various Star Wars re-releases, etc. At least supposedly some of the Star Trek disc sets let you watch either the original or the updates. I'm fine for the updates, and will watch the updates, if you can choose to see the originals too.)

Re:Interesting product but not economical

[DavidTC]

Indeed. If I wanted to play a modern video game, I'd play a modern one, dammit. If I'm playing Super Mario Bros, I am, by definition, playing something with shitty graphics. That's the point.

I really need to fix and hook back up my NES. Stupid tray loading design, have to take the damn thing apart every five years and fix the metal contacts.

Re:And yet...

[Sancho]

Say what you will about Nintendo and Mario games, but by and large they are fun.

I assume that the people replaying the same FPS with a slightly different skin think that they're having fun, too.

But yeah, all FPS all rely on almost exactly the same mechanics as Doom, and if you consider them merely 3D extensions of 2D mechanics, then they're "using the same mechanics" as e.g. Commander Keen. If it's fair to say that Super Mario Galaxy uses the same mechanics as Super Mario Bros, then my comparison of an FPS to a 2D shooter is fair.

Re:And yet...

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

And yet games released this year will be based on the same characters, plot devices and game mechanics as that title a quarter century ago.

Yeah, the difference between Mario Bros. and Super Mario Galaxy is very subtle. It's just an expansion pack!

I always preferred playing with my Willie...

[pandrijeczko]

...that of course being Miner Willie from the ZX Spectrum classics Manic Miner & Jet Set Willy.

I'm not criticising anyone's love of the Mario franchise of games but having gamed for 30-odd years from the ZX Spectrum through the Commodore Amiga and now to PCs, I think I've only ever played one Mario game for a short period of time on a friend's NES.

So my platform gaming heroes were Zool, Superfrog, Manic Miner and Wally Week (from Automania & Pyjamarama).

Re:I always preferred playing with my Willie...

[bogjobber]

Really? I find it astounding that a person that's gamed that long has never been interested in Mario games. You're missing out my friend. Up until the Gamecube, Mario was a flagship, genre-defining game. You should really try some of them out, especially the 2-D versions. Other than a couple duds and some weird gameplay quirks they're mostly still great fun. Certainly worth checking it out on emulator at least.

What the collection *should* be...

[Digital Vomit]

Here's what the Super Mario collection *should* be:

• Super Mario Bros
• Super Mario Bros 2 (US)
• Super Mario Bros 2 (Japan)
• Super Mario Bros 3
• Super Mario All-Stars
• Super Mario World
• Super Mario 64

Price: $20

That's the bare minimum acceptable product celebrating the 25th anniversary of Super Mario Bros.

For a few dollars more they could include the various GameBoy incarnations of Super Mario Bros, and maybe throw in the old Mario Bros for good measure.

Twenty-five years and all they do is re-release Super Mario All Stars? Please.


Of course, most of these games (along with their source) should belong to the Public Domain by now, but that's another story.

Re:What the collection *should* be...

[SnarfQuest]

Shouldn't they include the movie too? Keep the bad along with the good.?

Re:What the collection *should* be...

[Bill, Shooter of Bul]

Wasn't super mario brothers all stars just another collection of previous games?

I remember it containing

• Super Mario Bros
• Super Mario Bros 2 (US)
• Super Mario Bros 2 (Japan)
• Super Mario Bros 3

Re:What the collection *should* be...

[bogjobber]

I would kill to have the Mario gameboy games updated to Super Mario World quality graphics and put on a console. Especially Super Mario Land 2. That was an excellent game.

And I really wish Yoshi's Island got more acknowledgment from gamers. I think it's because of the cutesy style. It wasn't on par with 3, Super Mario World, or 64 but it was a really fun game.

I'd also really like to see the original tabletop Mario Bros. arcade game in console form. It's like the embryonic form of Super Mario Bros. Anybody that hasn't played that original game should check it out if you can. I had one in my local pizza place growing up, and that's the first Mario game I ever played (although it was many years later).

Re:Who's #1 then

[Patch86]

Twin-pak with Duck Hunt, ftw!

Ah, childhood.

SM Allstars is not an accurate representation

[Mr EdgEy]

I don't really like the fact SM Allstars is on this disc instead of the originals. It's kinda like playing Doom1 on the Crysis engine... takes away the magic in some way.

Tetris is harder

[tepples]

Zelda: The Adventure of Link I dare you name a harder game than that.

Not NES era, but close: Tetris The Grand Master 3: Terror-Instinct. Fast forward to 5:00. Or try reaching level 30 on the official Tetris game for NES.

They made 2 real pinball games as well!

[Joe The Dragon]

They made 2 real pinball games as well!

http://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?any=Super+Mario&search=Search+Database&searchtype=quick#3427
http://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?any=Super+Mario&search=Search+Database&searchtype=quick#2435

Interview with Miyamoto Shigeru

[kumanopuusan]

There are some pages in Nintendo's Super Mario 25th Anniversary Campaign web site that might be of more interest to gamers. One that caught my eye was an interview with Miyamoto Shigeru. I'll do my best to translate it here. It's remarkably long, so please excuse me for making multiple posts (and doing so slowly).

Introduction
Iwata: Hello everyone. I'm Iwata for Nintendo.
Today is the 25th anniversary to the day of September 13th, 1985 when the first generation of Super Mario Brothers for the Family Computer [NES] went on sale. Even today, after 25 years have passed thanks to our customers all over the world, Mario continues to jump energetically on game screens. Passing a quarter of a century, we truly thank you, our worldwide patrons.

Re:Interview with Miyamoto Shigeru

[kumanopuusan]

At Nintendo we're commemorating "Super Mario 25th Anniversary" with a promotion, but at the same time we're planning to release "The CEO Asks" pertaining to Super Mario's history in several installments.

Obviously, we thought to start by bringing to all of you word from the parent who gave birth to Super Mario, Miyamoto Shigeru, but thus far Mr. Miyamoto has appeared in "The CEO Asks" as a guest more than anyone else, and to me, who has asked Mr. Miyamoto the same questions many times, the more I thought about it the more I began to feel that in order to bring fresh questions to you all it was perhaps best to have someone else conduct the interview.

The initial impetus for "The CEO Asks" was when, as I was interviewed by Itoi Shigesato for the Hobo Nikkan Itoi Shinbun [Almost Daily Itoi Newspaper], I was moved to the following realization: "When people are asked skillfully, they can speak in detail as rich as this!"

Mr. Itoi and Mr. Miyamoto are already old friends, so to commemorate this 25th anniversary, I thought Itoi Shigesato most qualified to give a different perspective than mine in asking Mr. Miyamoto about his creation.

So saying, the opening move of the plans for 25th Anniversary Memorial will be Itoi Shigesato's interview "Super Mario 25th Anniversary." It truly became a long and rich interview. Enjoy!

Re:Interview with Miyamoto Shigeru

[kumanopuusan]

Things That Can't Be Put Into Words

Miyamoto: (While watching Super Mario Brothers [The first Super Mario action game, released 9/13/1985.] on a big screen TV.) To see it in such detail is a little embarrassing, don't you think?

Itoi: Oh, really? What about it?

Miyamoto: Long ago, things like the brown pipes [?] and the blurriness weren't displayed so clearly. That and the things that were sort of fudged, when they're displayed in so much detail, it's a somewhat [embarrassing]. (Laughs)

Itoi: For example, things like drawing the lines on the mountains in the background more correctly?

Miyamoto: No, lines and such were limited by the technology of the time, so in that sense it's not embarrassing.

Itoi: The things that were properly apparent when you created it aren't embarrassing.

Miyamoto: Right. (Laughs)

Itoi: I think I understand that. But how to fix it, that's difficult, isn't it. Me, too, when I read the books I wrote long ago, they are embarrassing.

Miyamoto: Yeah, that happens, doesn't it.

Itoi: It does. It does. They're always full of things that the person I am now wouldn't write. That includes everything from style to the use of kanji or hiragana. However, when I've considered changing things, I thought "But if I change it, it just feels something will be lost."

Miyamoto: Ah.

Itoi: Even things that one absolutely wouldn't create now, if they were changed, regrettably, something would be lost.

Miyamoto: That's true, isn't it.

Itoi: Yep.

Miyamoto: Well, when porting a game I made long ago, sometimes I'm uncomfortable with the port and I ask myself "There's no way it was like this, right?" Usually, I can answer "No, it was like this." (Laughs)

Itoi: I see. (Laughs)

Miyamoto: To think they shouldn't be changed now, that these kind of rough spots are also part of games... that's properly appreciating them, isn't it?

Itoi: In short, one's body [?] at that time requested that it should be made that way, right?

Miyamoto: Right, right.

Itoi: So, for example, when the director's cut for a hit movie is released, the version in which the director has redone all the details is not always better, right?

Miyamoto: Yep, yep.

How Nintendo should really celebrate

[lyinhart]

In recognition of the anniversary, it would be great if Nintendo promised to stop making any more Mario Party games. And Mario sports games too.

Or, failing that, at least made all their staff Do the Mario.

Polishing old turds

[Tetsujin]

I will never understand why something like mario all stars wasn't more popular among game companies. There's so many old nes properties that were fun, loved by everyone, and could have gotten a huge benefit from a graphical makeover and collection. You'd even see things like the mega man collection for the mega drive, or the snes ninja gaiden collection. But they'd miss the opportunity and make only the most minor of graphic upgrades.

One problem with this approach is that, in terms of development, QA, and (to some extent) art resources, you're basically remaking the entire game. You have to rewrite all the software, redraw all the sprites, rearrange the music, and make sure it all works right in the end. If you're going to do all that, why not make a new game featuring the popular old character instead?

Look at Super Mario All Stars, for instance. You'd think it would be pretty hard to screw that up, right? And yet, they did... Somehow they managed to screw up the game mechanics for smashing bricks.

Besides which, giving an old game a simple face-lift isn't always enough to attract a new audience, and maybe the old audience would rather have their old favorite stay the way it was...

Of course, that's not to say good things can't come from this kind of approach. I'm generally quite happy with Street Fighter HD Remix, for instance. I never played the PSP versions of Rockman and Rockman X, but I think they look fun, too...

Re:And yet...

[carlzum]

I'd say Mario is an example of an iconic character that is used to showcase new styles of game play. Arcade platformer, co-op play, 2D scroller, puzzles, 3D console, racing, etc. Most "franchises" regurgitate the same game, adding little more than gimmicks for a new platform.

FOSS alternative

[Compaqt]

Secret Maryo Chronicles

http://www.secretmaryo.org/

Click here to install in Debian/Ubuntu

Re:And yet...

[Draek]

Say what you will about Nintendo and Mario games, but by and large they are fun.

No, they really aren't, at least since Mario 64.

Isn't subjectivity wonderful?

The brick bug

[Dwedit]

Super Mario All-Stars has the infamous Brick Bug, where when you break a brick, your vertical velocity is pushed upward instead of downward.

Re:And yet...

[SpaghettiPattern]

...games released this year will be based on the same characters, plot devices and game mechanics as that title a quarter century ago. It's all summed up in Nintendo's motto: Why create when you can copy?

And yet I would rather play 100 games that feature Mario unnecessarily than yet another greyish-brown FPS where the protagonist is some sort of grizzled space marine. Say what you will about Nintendo and Mario games, but by and large they are fun.

And, diverting a bit, I say Super Mario Sunshine captures the shooting urge of FPS games. That is, you almost always have the Flash Liquidizer Ultra Dousing Device to shoot. The difference is that instead of killing enemies you rather clean up and/or save the world. Sometimes pretty tricky but always fund and friendly. The friendly shooting to me makes Super Mario Sunshine one of the best Mario games.

ROM Mods

[Anonymous Coward]

I think one of the best tributes to the Mario brand was the geeks of the world figuring out how to emulate an NES, download their games to a ROM format and then modify the sprites to whatever images they wanted.
Because of them, locked away on one of my old hard drives are classic variations of Super Mario Bros: Toilet Mario, Wheelchair Mario and my favorite: Rabid Dog Mario.

I noticed none of those made the list. Pity.

Re: fuck that laughing dog!

[MRe_nl]

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/11439

Unscrupulous Plug

[don_carnage]

How fitting to include my tribute in this tribute to tributes. Sorry for the unscrupulous plug: http://www.instructables.com/id/Princess-Peach-Pointillism

All-Stars, Hooray!

[lainproliant]

The NES originals are available on Wii Ware, but its nice to see that SMAS is coming to Wii.

Re:And yet...

[tehcyder]

If you take things back far enough, all games are just variations on throwing a rock at a tree.

Re:And yet...

[yanos]

> greyish-brown FPS Oh god, please make them stop! I think I'm beginning to be allergic to brown and grey. Why can't I have a clear blue sky once in a while? Having the impression that your eyes are hurting because of all the beautiful light? Why does it always have to be a post apocalypse murky boring world? Even the daytime scenes in Alan Wake where never truly bright and sunny, a fact I can't get my head around. I don't think it would have ruin the atmosphere, quite the contrary: when you have a beautiful, normal setting, it can actually be more troubling because everything *looks* normal, but you know so well that it isn't. Half Life 2 really nailed it, IMO.

Re:And yet...

[ImprovOmega]

The friendly shooting to me makes Super Mario Sunshine one of the best Mario games.

And also the game with the most sadistic level design. That plinko red coin level where you never have enough water to levitate to where you to go was the first time I remember rage-quitting a console game.