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Apple, Startup Go To Trial Over 'Pod' Trademark
suraj.sun writes with this excerpt from Ars Technica: "Apple is scheduled to go to trial with a startup to fight over a three-letter word: Pod. The trademark battle centers on independent entrepreneur Daniel Kokin, founder of startup Sector Labs, and his video projector in development called Video Pod. Apple had previously filed oppositions against Kokin's usage of 'Pod,' alleging that it would cause customers to confuse it with Apple's iPod products. ... Names that have come under fire include MyPodder, TightPod, PodShow, and even Podium. Sector Labs is the only company to go to trial with Apple over using the 'Pod' branding. Ana Christian, Kokin's lawyer, says the fight is about more than allowing small businesses to use 'Pod' in their product names. She noted a trend in the tech industry, in which large corporations have been attempting to assume ownership of ordinary words."
I say this with all due respect:
Fuck Steve Jobs.
Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
Nothing new to see here.
"There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
I wonder how much money is wasted everyday by these useless unethical corporate bullshit lawsuits. Clearly, things are completely out of control when people waste money fighting over common usage of common words. Hey Mr. Jobs, are you proud about all the money you waste?
Let's face it - an all-in-one smartphone called the UniPhone would be cool. Opps - too late again!
A few years ago, beer companies in Canada were suing each other over thinks like putting photos of water droplets on their boxes, and using really common plain language terminology. Utterly pointless and all it did was buy BMWs for the lawyers on retainer.
The defendant should submit Invasion of the Body Snatchers as prior art.
will they go for iKea?
Just change your product from Pod to Pad, and Apple will leave you alone.
Yes, but Apple stole that from the iPaq, so they don't have a leg to stand on there.
They went after Podium? /usr/share/dict/words
grep -i pod
Hmm, I bet they'd sue over "chiropodist" too.
US patents, trademarks, gun laws, drug laws. When is the stupidity going to stop?
When we can have the utter perfection of both the government and economic systems that Europe, Canada, Asia - especially Japan - have achieved.
After all, they live in a utopia, don't they?
RIP America
July 4, 1776 - September 11, 2001
And the test
Don't forget that the whole point of the thing is consumer protection - your average person being able to buy a thing with a reasonable sureness about its origins. As in all things tech related the mom-test is probably best: If your mom was out shopping and found a VideoPod on the shelves would she assume it was an Apple product and make her purchasing choice accordingly.
Will apple sue apple picking places with apple in there name?
Dont laugh, Apple has already tried and lost ie stop a supermaket selling vegetables using an apple shaped logo.
They'll have a tough time proving that "pod" is a valid trademark when it's been a part of the English language for several centuries before the existance of anything remotely resembling a portable recorded music player. They'll also have a tough time arguing that "pod" is seen as equivalent to "iPod", regardless of the context. And lastly, they'll need to explain why if "pod" is a trademark they haven't gone after all those obviously infringing gardening suppliers with their seed pods, or the PODS moving equipment company, or the Pipeline Open Data Standard (code for managing oil and gas lines), or the gazillions of other uses of the word that they've failed to defend.
My guess is there's another reason for this suit, perhaps that the defendant refused to sell an invention of his to Apple.
I am officially gone from
Do they also get Phone, Tunes, Photo, Sight, Movie, Book, Life, Chat, DVD, Web, Work, and Pad?
I'll give them Mac, but what does that mean for Shakespeare's Macbeth? Or MacLisp? Or Emacs?
I don't believe in time. It's a grand conspiracy designed to sell watches.
She noted a trend in the tech industry, in which large corporations have been attempting to assume ownership of ordinary words.
Um, hate to break it to you, Ms High Priced Layer, but that thing you're describing there is called "trademarks" and is a practice that can be found in many industries and is not exclusive to the tech industry nor large corporations.
I'm just sayin'.
Trademark law was not designed to give power to corporations to forbid competition, rather it was to prevent misleading claims. I don't see how this misleads consumers in any way.
The scenario that trademark law was designed to prevent is people walking into a store and walking out with a product that isn't what they expected. In none of these cases were people expecting to get an iPod and ended up not getting one.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
The point isn't about the origins but the actual product. It shouldn't matter if your mom thought that VideoPod was made by Apple or not, what should matter is whether she thought a VideoPod was an iPod video. THAT is the point of trademarks, not to give corporations the power to change the English language. If something was called a VideoPod and was a generic MP3 player, Apple might have a case, but if it was something like... a VHS player you hook up via USB to rip your old VHS tapes into a digital format, it doesn't matter what the name is, Apple has no offering similar to it so the name should stay.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
Stanley Kubrick and 2001... "Open the pod bay doors, HAL" Sounds like ol' Stan's in for a buttload of money!
Don't forget about a certain board game.
Porpoises, etc ...
Or come up with a different collective noun. Shoals? No, that's fish.
"The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes" - Winston Churchill
If apple can patent any word with a lowercase i infront of it, AND that implies copyright on the original word... Couldn't they patent every noun and verb in the dictionary?
aisuyu.
They'll just sue you over the ipad - and that thing doesn't even have wings.
This is known as TLT (The Lawyer Tax). Lawyers, not having any technical competency nor skills, want a piece of the action^Wmoney from the high tech industry. So the lawyers devise rules, regulations, and guidelines, that force Apple to pursue any and all things that the lawyers feel necessary to, well, protect the lawyers. It's a vicious cycle, the lawyers feeding themselves lawyers. In the end it's the human consumer who loses.
The logo is here for comparison. According to the article, it sounds like standard due diligence was done by apple. I dont think they wheeled in the lawyers. But who knows. I guess the secondary issue was of more interest. Many New Zealanders took it as another "attack" by a US corporation. A david and goliath media portrayal. Keep in mind NZ is anti-nuclear and forbids nuclear weaponeed ships ins its waters(for which the US despises us for). So really it was a storm in a tea cup.
In post Patriot Act America, the library books scan you.
Lawyers inform their clients of the legal options available to them. Lawyers may file and try the case but I assure you the decision to do so rests with Apple (aka: Steve Jobs).
...Apple going after people using the word 'Phone', because it might be confused with their iPhone products?
Nope. Steve honestly had no choice in this. His hands are tied by the BoD and the Shareholders, for which (wait for it...) the lawyers define the operating guidelines and goals.
I say go for broke and call it "Olympic Pod." Trademark Madness
Three Squirrels
.
Very true. Look how 3M Corporation stole the name Scotch® Tape, or how Chesebrough-Ponds stole the name Q-Tips®.
Actually, we just despise you for your redundant prepositions.
I go to French conversation table at our local university, and I was struck by this event:
A young man said, "I'm going to move to Europe when I graduate. I don't like all the racism in the United States... I'm going to move to France where there's no racism."
*facepalm*
Does anyone in the US actually stop to think about what people in other countries are going through, or do we all just sit and complain about our situation from our perceived moral high ground, not realizing just how much we take for granted?
Fair points all, although I would point out that the term "podcast" is said to be derived from ipod's "pod" and therefore probably works against your argument.
As for I-Carly - Trademarks are not protected against Fair Use. I imagine Apple hasn't got the stomach to go against Viacom over a children's program that is most problably perfectly permitted.
LMI claims to have introduced the Bod Pod body fat measurement pod in 1994. You sit inside the egg shaped bod pod while a loudspeaker increases and decreases the volume of the pod. The change in pressure inside the pod as the volume of the pod is changed, determines the airspace remaining inside the pod after your body fills the pod up part way. The less airspace left inside the pod, the faster the pressure will rise as the loudspeaker pushes into the pod. The airspace remaining in the pod minus the volume of the pod gives the volume of your body. A scale determines your weight. Your weight and volume determine your density, and that is used to estimate your body fat. Fudge factors have to be used to account for the varying characteristics of the air in your lungs and the layer of warm air near your skin and especially trapped between your clothes or bathing suit or hair. This system is less trouble than the traditional method of determining body density by weighing a person while under water. See bodpod.com
Really I thought it was just all the hillbillies jealous for their over over abundance of sex toys, I mean sheep.
Yes, because the grass is all "the same color" in France... :)
I'll go with choice B - we all just sit around and complain. And, almost 99% of the time, we complain without thinking. It's simply amazing that being aware that France, Belgium, England, Russia, and every other nation on earth has their problems with bigotry, taxes, gangs, immigration, and all the other problems we have in the US sets a person apart from the masses. Ooops - I meant "ignorant masses".
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
The next they are going to want to do is go to trial over anything that starts with 'i". Sooner or later all of the iPolice are going to be coming to knock on your door to insure that you still believe in Lord Jobs.
"To prevent this day from getting any worse, I'll just read ERROR as GOOD THING" 1GJU8xLuDKDxEs4KLf8fAGyptoDsqvEsBT
in usa.
they tried to claim the letter 'i' in australia before. some said it was an overboard decision by apple's local execs. and now apple claims a WORD in usa.
is there any fool who still can come up and defend trademarks, patents still ? or, will you wait to change your mind until simple logic operators like 'and' and 'or' is claimed by some corporation ?
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no amount of money thrown into marketing can award a company or a person ownership of a generic group name for objects, like pod, or pad, or plane, or car, or tool or chair.
anyone claiming otherwise, are either brain dead, or witless.
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all the examples you gave, are AMERICAN brands. america, the place in which ownership of words, even, recently, basic logic axioms are allowed.
america's stupidity and faults, do not make a justified case for letting people own GENERIC names for objects. its morondom.
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The lawyers are also in a position where they have the expectation of 'expert knowledge' in the area of law. So, when the lawyer recommends that they must pursue a lawsuit or the company risks losing the trademark, the company executives will generally follow their recommendation. It's not as if Steve Jobs is going to study up on the intricacies of every legal case that Apple is involved with and override his own legal department.
It may have happened when certain design decisions were being weighed up against the engineering ramifications (eg. the iPhone 4 antenna issue), but I doubt he'd risk his company's trademark(s) so Apple could feel a little bit more community loving.
Fearing litigious douchebaggery, the farming industry has voluntarily renamed the "Bean pod" to "Bean hammock". Rumours surfaced that Apple was designing a new pointless touchscreen gadget named "iHammock", as well as a smaller and more useless variant "iBean".
The Cupertino-based designer of the "iSue" declined to comment.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
Though, with this number of frivolous lawsuits, I'm missing out on big bucks!!!!!
and in further news Apple lawyers have asked The Dept. of Agriculture to destroy all vegetables that grow in a group covering and The Dept. of Wildlife to disband any Killer Whales from gathering in a group .
"it sounds like", "I don't think", "who knows", "I guess" - for such an ignorant man, you came up with "So really it was a storm in a tea cup" pretty fast. Amazing how drinking the kool-aid can purge you of all the ignorance in no time!!
Redundant: We're already discussing Apple.
Have gnu, will travel.
I don't know when Line6 put out the first POD guitar amp/effects modelers, but they have an entire line of music-related products that use the POD name. More recent versions can attach to computers via USB even. The name and shape (red kidney bean) are pretty iconic in the guitar world- even the people who hate them will recognize them instantly. No idea why Steve isn't suing them, unless it's because Line6 used the name first.
"Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
Do you think Apple would go after someone who renamed the Pad Thai in their restaurant ThaiPad?
If I ever write an autobiography about my time as Programmer On Duty way back when at Concordia University, I'm going to have to title it "I, POD".
Or not.
-- Alastair
I'm throwing away all my moderations to post this but no one said it: why would anyone want to call their device the Video Pod? Google Video Pod and all you get is iPod Video and Video Podcast references, how difficult would it be to knock all those links out of google?
Guy's wasting his money, even if he wins he loses because no one will ever be able to find his product online, and "Video Pod" is a horrible name for a video projector. He claims "it took us years to go from prototype to funded" and now he's wasting that funding on fighting Apple? If I was one of his investors I'd pull my funding immediately because he's wasting money.... unless he's doing all of this to get publicity and he's planning on backing out the last minute. I did that ten years ago, chose a similar name to a famous existing product and was sued. I even had a story that ended up on slashdot and sales shot through the roof.
my karma will be here long after I'm gone
I hope they don't come after me and my pseudopod.
Without their tripods?
This suit has about as much merit as McDonald's suing a scottish business some time back for use of the name "McDonnalds".
As an aside, I personally dislike those that use such words as "podcast" and "blogosphere" it is saddening that their use has become so prevalent among the young.
Earlier there was a dust up because Apple claimed it own the iPhone brand name because although there were other phones, they weren't iPhones.
Now it claims rights over the marketing of iPod, claiming that it is the stem "pod" is attached. The defendant's lawyers are going to have a field day with Apple, probably with damages for being forced to hire lawyers to defend themselves against a frivolous lawsuit
This is what happens when you have lawyers on retainer and they haven't got anything useful to do to remind their employers of why they need to pay them more..
I think they cannot win this one (Apple that is). There are pods all over the place. For mere money one can be placed on your driveway. I have a number of logic analyzers that have what I call USB pods from which many wires emit. It is clear that iPod means something in particular, and can be protected, but what is next, Suing GOD about the seed pods in plants?
it has none.
Anyway, I think that was an "eye phone", which I guess was a combined HUD and ... phone? Well it doesn't make any less sense than the rest of the movie. It was a fun cheesy movie though.
"They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
Podcast is used as a generic term though so selling a product and advertising it as "plays podcasts" would not be trademark infringement. If Apple wanted to avoid that they should have killed the podcast term.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Peapod founded in 1989 by Andrew and Thomas Parkinson, both of whom are still executive officers. Its original name was IPOD for Information and Product on Demand, but as they were creating their business cards they changed it to Peapod on a whim. Before 1996, it provided an on-line grocery shopping service in partnership with Jewel in Chicago and surrounding towns; Safeway in San Francisco, California; Randall's in Houston, Texas; and Kroger in Columbus, Ohio.
In 1996, it launched its website and became one of the earliest internet start-ups; the company made the Inc. 500 list of fast-growing privately held US companies. It parlayed this success and good press into an IPO on NASDAQ. Between 1997 and 2000, Peapod expanded into Boston and Watertown, Massachusetts, Long Island, New York, and Norwalk, Connecticut in partnership with Stop & Shop. In late 2000, they entered Washington, DC and surrounding towns with Giant Food.
The year 2000 also saw a fundamental change in Peapod's corporate structure. Worldwide grocery giant Royal Ahold bought 51% of Peapod's shares in June 2000. In August 2001, Royal Ahold bought out the entire company. As a result, Peapod cancelled its contracts with all grocery companies except for Royal Ahold's two main American chains, Stop & Shop and Giant Food. This caused Peapod to abandon San Francisco, Houston, and Columbus entirely, but the company maintained service, albeit with some interruptions and inconveniences, everywhere else.
The iPod in comparison was launched in 2001.
This is why there can be a Firebird database, and also a Firebird automobile. Same name, but nobody is going to confuse one for the other. Nobody is going to say "Man, I thought I was going to get a car but it turns out I have a database server instead."
While both products in this case are technology, that seems to be where the similarities end. The iPod is, of course, an MP3 player. The Video Pod looks like it is going to be a digital cinema projector. Not really that similar. Also, Apple's branding has been around the "i" thing. Their iPod is their only "Pod" thing so saying someone is trying to create confusion by calling a projector a "Video Pod" is a real stretch.
While anything can happen in court, I can't see Apple winning this if it is properly litigated. A trademark doesn't mean you own any and everything relating to the mark. It means companies can't try and use a mark or one like it to confuse people. this does not at all seem confusing.
Next up: Suing the estate of H.G. Wells, because his Tripods are giving Apple bad publicity.
Mind you "Micky Mouse" is a trademarked character of Disney. Not "Mouse". And Disney wouldn't bother wasting money to try to claim that common word. Even-though they could try to get money from all the computer companies because of their peripheral devices. The word is commonly used to describe a household pest or reptile food (Rodent). Likewise a comic book company failed to obtain a claim on the word "Omega" because it is a letter of an alphabet, a universal symbol, and commonly used.
On the other hand Paramount was at one point claiming trademarks on lots of things to do with Star Trek. Including character and ship names.
How long until they start suing whichever studio made this movie? Either that, or until they make their own version: "Invasion of the iPod People"
Hyperbole: I use it liberally!
Now that Apple has an internet web-related / social networking product named 'Ping'..... I wonder how long before they start going after software such as fping, and Smokeping, or World Wide Web / Web2.0 / Blogging products such as Ping-O-Matic, or Pingler
And some OSes even include a command called ping. Think of all the settle to get $$$ and licensing / additional stream of revenue opportunities.....
Stop fucking with small startups. Patents are founded as a - protection - for small startups against the big corporations. That is not however the case today (as a patent may cost several millions...). Patents today - limits - innovation for the small inventor, and brings big money for the big corporation, which is the opposite of the original intent with the founding patents.
compared to u.s., europe does indeed live in an utopia.
Not really. I live in Europe, and while I wouldn't want to visit the US because of their recent draconian limitations to civil rights, things have been going seriously downhill over here too.
Maybe I'll move to Sweden some day. They seem to be taking civil rights and freedom pretty seriously over there.
This is bad news for pod people :(
US business and lawyers - just like peas in a pod. Better sue the Oxford English Dictionary while you're at it.
iPedantry
"Pod" isn't the part of the brand I associate with Apple. It's the preceding "i" (lower-case) which is the defining characteristic.
iPod
iPhone
iMac
iTunes
It they released the PodPhone, or PodMac, or PodTunes I'd have a little sympathy, but I can't help but think that he's gotten this one all backwards.
Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
Why apple hasn't sued Disney over I-Carly is beyond me.. as it's apparent to me anything I-"name" is supposed to be from Apple. .
I guess Apple must be afraid of Intel as well (i7, i5, i3), or have they come to some sort of agreement?
But there can't be a firebird web browser...
People STILL want to forget firebird (the database) being complete dicks over this, but I won't let them.
>As an aside, I personally dislike those that use such words as "podcast" and "blogosphere" it is saddening that their use has become so prevalent among the
Ha. The war is lost on that front.
If you used "video multicast" or "web log" talking to somebody, there'd probably be quite a few confused looks.
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
Nice work. I'd never heard of you before Video Pod, but seeing as now Apple is suing you..
This is about trademarks not patents. Could you provide a source for your assertion that '[p]atents are founded as a - protection - for small startups against the big corporations'. Thanks.
Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
...back in the day when MacBasic, MacPascal, MacForth, etc., were the expected names of compilers, and MacLisp was by-Ghod already taken!
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
And what about iRiver that was founded two years before the first iPod was released?
Brain surgery - it's not rocket science!
The English alphabet has 26 letters, mind you, giving 26^3 = 17576.
There could be more! Eg. the Estonian alphabet has 32 letters (including "foreign ones"), thus 32768 combinations. For more, you could mine Chinese characters. A dictionary called "Yitizi Zidian" is said to contain 106230 characters, giving 1198785674367000 three-character sequences.
(source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_character#Number_of_Chinese_characters )
So all the idiotic stuff you have in the US is OK because nowhere's perfect?
Great argument.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
We do scanning and imaging work and called an early product "Pixel Perfect". Oops, wrong name - Word Perfect (bigger at the time than they are now) came down on us like a ton of bricks. To be fair, they weren't total dicks about it, they simply strongly suggested that we find a name that didn't lead people to think this was a product that *they* had put out. We carefully evaluated the likely size of their bank account against the known size of our testicles, and this comparison somehow seemed to open the doors to wisdom and we were able to quickly come up with what we felt was a much better product name :-)
If you got the money and you got the lawyers, you can get what you want. Scrotal size just doesn't enter into the equation much. ...and truth be told, the only reason we picked Pixel Perfect to begin with was the prior existence of a popular software product that used the word Perfect in its title. Lesson learned. Do your research a pick your product names carefully.
www.pods.com
They have NOTHING to do with audio or video, and I'm sure they predate the iPod.
Their product is "Portable On Demand Storage" (of your physical crap, not data).
"My story begins in nineteen-dickety-two. We had to say dickety because the Kaiser had stolen our word twenty. I chased that rascal to get it back, but gave up after dickety-six miles."
--Abe Simpson
Just substitute "Steve Jobs" for "the Kaiser" and "pod" for "twenty", and there you go! History repeats itself.
I really hope that Apple doesn't come and take away my TRI Pod... :(
California voters are likely to legalize and tax small amounts of pod at this november's election, polls say.
How about iRack, iRan,iCecream? Are those within the scope of apple's trademark?
There is no idea stupid enough to deter a lawyer, an accountant or a two year old.
Listening to and reading about this kind of "NO! MINE, MINE, MINE!" petulance over the ownership of sounds is very much like listening to two year olds debate over who owns a gun, never mind the facts that it doesn't belong to them and that they didn't create it.
Its language folks. NOBODY OWNS WORDS! It defeats the purpose of language when anybody own a word. It then becomes something that only initiates can "grok"(1), for "Chthlu"(2) sake.
In fact, and this should delight them, lets require that ALL legal documents the world over be embossed in copper/aluminum alloy sheets in Kligonee (and set in that typeface too,) to differentiate any legal scribblings from any earth language.
This would make learning of Klingonee mandatory for all lawyers. (Trekkies would have a leg up on taking over.)
I would also not be averse to strength trials where "two men enter, one walks out" types of legal debates (complete with batleths as arguments.)
Accountants at least know how to do arithmetic. But they should not be allowed to make any decisions.
Two year olds should be spanked when they refuse to STFU.
1) Contributed by Robert Heinlein. (3)
2) Contributed by H. P. Lovecraft. (3)
3) This is not a primer on etymology. Dig up where, when why and by whom the words were created yourselves.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Did the maker of polo shirts with alligators on them sue Warner Bros. Pictures over Superman II?
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
If it was iProjector, maybe. But Video Pod? Apple has no other Pod products, and no video projector.
How many of you young'uns remember when the Beatles sued Apple?. Jobs learned his lesson early - the wrong lesson
World Triathlon Corp has been successfully defending its Ironman tradmark (which is actually leased from Marvel Comics) for years against any and all Iron+gender and Iron+anything products regardless of the type of industry (i.e. Iron Woman Tea brand). http://www.slowtwitch.com/Features/The_trademark_272.html
things are going 'downhill' there, due to the pressure u.s. centered groups are putting on your governments through subsidiaries they own in your own countries. however still, had you really been there, you would know what kind of utopia you are living in, still, even in this state.
sweden is also in europe by the way.
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with your logic, if i start using the word car in a 'flying car' brand i generate, and spend marketing on it, this will associate the word 'car' with my flying car brand, and then will award me the rights to the word 'car'.
it doesnt matter what do you use to describe, an existing word, is an existing word, period.
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Senna pod tea, anyone?
http://www.acetonestudio.com
So if someone makes a product called "Video Phone" will Apple sue? After all, they have a trademark on "iPhone". What about "Video Tunes"?
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
The pods have already been distributed. They're waiting the signal to activate.
there goes my multimedia sunglasses idea
...
sweden is also in europe by the way.
It is, but not all of Europe is like Sweden. Most of it isn't.
indeed it isnt. but if you put sweden, norway, finland, denmark, netherlands together, they pretty much make a huge percentage of europe.
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I'm not convinced Netherland is in the same league. It's where I live, and I tell you: we're headed towards hell in a hand basket here. Just take a look at the new government coalition they're forming here.
I have similar doubts about Denmark, but I know too little of Danish politics. Or Norwegian or Finnish, for that matter. But Sweden keeps sounding better and better.
you wont see the difference until you live in some other place in the world.
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Yeah, those nations are really nice to live in if you happen to be a member of the preferred ethnicity and culture; otherwise, you're an outsider that's politely tolerated but never accepted. Many of those governments are also quite intrusive and restrictive. And with those nations, you picked off the handful of best examples in Europe, it's downhill from there, down to active and violent ethnic and religious conflicts in many parts of Europe. Even that kind of Europe only exists because the US spent trillions defending it against the USSR. Some utopia indeed!
irrelevant. it is totally the opposite. you have much easier time and approval if you are ethnic in those countries. maybe this can be counted as a handicap.
the 'handful' you speak of constitutes at least 5 countries in entire europe. even if the situation declines from there, it is not as horrible as usa.
and, us got that trillions which it used for 'defending' europe from ussr by exploiting and monopolizing everything in the countries it was 'defending' during the cold war. through pressure, it killed local industries and exported american goods. from aircraft to cars. my country has only recently been able to establish an auto industry, for example, because it was being used as a colony for american industry, through military (thanks, soviet threat) and political pressure. and even gladio.
not to mention 12+ puppet dictators america installed around the world in 3rd world countries, who have committed worst crimes against humanity in the last 60 years.
excuse me, but, you are still in the hands of brainwashing propaganda.
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it is totally the opposite. you have much easier time and approval if you are ethnic in those countries. maybe this can be counted as a handicap.
Being an ethnic curiosity is not the same as tolerance, approval, or acceptance.
the 'handful' you speak of constitutes at least 5 countries in entire europe. even if the situation declines from there, it is not as horrible as usa.
Even according to the UN development index that you linked to, the EU as a whole is doing worse than the US, and the EU represents only the most developed nations of Europe as a whole.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index
my country has only recently been able to establish an auto industry, for example, because it was being used as a colony for american industry, through military (thanks, soviet threat) and political pressure. and even gladio.
So what? You whine and complain as if America owes you anything. If you're not willing to do what it takes to defend yourself, don't complain when the people that do attach strings.
not to mention 12+ puppet dictators america installed around the world in 3rd world countries, who have committed worst crimes against humanity in the last 60 years.
So what? America's politicians are elected to ensure the safety and protect the interests prosperity of the American people, nothing more. Most of the time, the US prefers to help countries democratize and develop, because that's the cheapest and most effective strategy. But if that's not feasible, the US will install dictators if it is vital to US interests, no apologies.
Furthermore, European nations have done and still do the same things if it suits them: massive weapons shipments, deals with undemocratic regimes, and holding on to colonies until near bankruptcy.
excuse me, but, you are still in the hands of brainwashing propaganda.
No, you are in the hands of brain-washing propaganda. Europeans like you have eaten up the same propaganda of supposed European moral, intellectual, and educational superiority for centuries, all the while they were slaughtering natives around the globe, bleeding other nations dry, and killing each other at home over religion and ethnicity. Free yourself from the propaganda you have been subjected to all your life in your ideologically biased, government-controlled educational system and media and start actually learning something about the world beyond your borders.
you have said that america was the 'best', or, at least 'next best' country to live on earth.
it turned out there are THIRTEEN countries topping america, and almost all of them are the countries you have said to have 'tradeoffs'. doesnt matter whether they are smaller in population, or larger. you cannot go changing the criteria if it doesnt fit your argument. united nations considers those nations at the top, and that's that.
thirteenth place is not 'the next best', first being 'canada'. thats american morondom to believe that. its your own self-produced propaganda. moreover, you dont know shit about the situations of ethnic minorities in those 13 countries you speak of. had you know, you would be crying how you were being treated in us as a us citizen.
Furthermore, European nations have done and still do the same things if it suits them: massive weapons shipments, deals with undemocratic regimes, and holding on to colonies until near bankruptcy.
there are 2 european nations which employed puppet dictators in the last 60 years. you dont know shit about history, dont make up. in the thirteen counted there, there is only one of them.
about american peoples's interests; fuck them. if you take creating secret organizations to assassinate, kill, remove political opponents, install puppet dictators, kill industries, bribe people 'democratization', fuck you too. read the below about 'democratization' and 'defense'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio
So what? You whine and complain as if America owes you anything. If you're not willing to do what it takes to defend yourself, don't complain when the people that do attach strings.
excuse me, i didnt know i was discussing with an 12 year old brainwashed moron that has the word 'whine' to use in serious discussions in his vocabulary. that would be my mistake.
....
yes, america owes A LOT of countries a lot of things. enslaving people directly and enslaving people indirectly through usage of a 'democratic' storefront behind which organizations like Gladio go rampant, along with installing puppet dictators, and then profiting for 50 years over that and then shamelessly coming up and talking about 'american people's interests', and 'defense' and 'democratization'
this is why the world hates america. and they are right. with your self centered bigotry, you have just added to that animosity. thankfully, america is basically a bankrupt chinese puppet now, with 2 other superpowers to offset its military dicta.
i wont be replying to a bigoted moron like you any longer. if you want to be taken seriously, drop that shitty ignorant nationalism and your right wing bigotry, and talk like an enlightened person. 'good day'.
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"Furthermore, European nations have done and still do the same things if it suits them: massive weapons shipments, deals with undemocratic regimes, and holding on to colonies until near bankruptcy."
there are 2 european nations which employed puppet dictators in the last 60 years. you dont know shit about history,
Non-sequitur. It's the democratic European governments that have been massive weapons exporters and supporters of undemocratic regimes. Democratic European governments tried to hold on to their colonies with massive military spending and democratic European governments created the messes in the Middle East and Asia.
Of course, over the last 60 years, there were dictatorships in Spain, Portugal, and Greece, a massive civil war and genocide in Yugoslavia, half of Germany and most of Eastern Europe was governed by (sometimes vicious) communist regimes. Etc. Nice little continent you have there.
thankfully, america is basically a bankrupt chinese puppet now, with 2 other superpowers to offset its military dicta.
Indeed, deploying its troops around the world is bankrupting the US and can't go on. So, get ready for when Russia and China start calling the shots. The just have such a soft spot in their hearts for Europe given the tender mercies Europe has bestowed upon them in the past, and how can they not be anything but happy to slow down their own economic development to make sure that European seniors get the large pensions and health care they deserve!
this is why the world hates america. with your self centered bigotry, you have just added to that animosity
Good! Translate that animosity into action to kick those evil American bastards out of Europe and start fending for yourself already!
'good day'.
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im not european. and arrogance, ignorance, are found in your earlier posts. to the extent of having 'whine' in your vocabulary.
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So why are you so ashamed to admit where you are actually from? What is the track record of your glorious nation on human rights, tolerance, and peace?
would the track record of my country change the track record of america ? unfortunately my country hasnt been able to dominate the world, installing 12 direct puppet dictators, and setting up gladios in 20 other countries and instigating coups, assassinations and industry takeovers.
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unfortunately my country hasnt been able to dominate the world, installing 12 direct puppet dictators, and setting up gladios in 20 other countries and instigating coups, assassinations and industry takeovers.
Yes, that's quite unfortunate for you. I'm glad my country has the power to do this when it is necessary to protect itself and others.
I see no alternative to installing puppet dictators when a nation threatens the US and has been incapable of forming a peaceful democracy; what's your bright idea for how to deal with such nations?
would the track record of my country change the track record of america?
It would mean that you take responsibility for your own country, history, and citizenship, instead of blaming others and being evasive.
Yes, that's quite unfortunate for you. I'm glad my country has the power to do this when it is necessary to protect itself and others.
I see no alternative to installing puppet dictators when a nation threatens the US and has been incapable of forming a peaceful democracy; what's your bright idea for how to deal with such nations? It would mean that you take responsibility for your own country, history, and citizenship, instead of blaming others and being evasive.
despicable bullshit. justifying drug dealing by cia, genocides, assassinations, violation of democracy, dictatorship, infecting locals with diseases deliberately.
/. history, i will put someone in foe list. hopefully the system wont show droppings from your rotten mind afterwards.
and it is being dubbed 'responsibility'. nauseating.
that kind of rotten mind is the reason this planet is in knee deep shit. right wing indoctrination, nothing else. not to mention that your country doesnt have the power to do any of that anymore, bankrupt and isolated. good for everyone.
probably for the first time in
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you cant let go of me, and come back for more, arent you. however, i had enough. 'good day' for the last time.
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probably for the first time in /. history, i will put someone in foe list
More fabrications; you already have half a dozen people on there.
that kind of rotten mind is the reason this planet is in knee deep shit
This planet is a lot better off, in large part because the US first fought fascism, then rebuilt Europe, and staved off communism. Mistakes come with the territory; you show me a superpower in world history that has done better.
despicable bullshit. justifying
Americans don't have to justify anything to a nitwit like you who won't even come clear on what totalitarian hellhole he escaped from.