Details of Android 3.0, SIP, Video Chat

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Details of Android 3.0, SIP, Video Chat

Posted by CmdrTaco on Tuesday October 19, 2010 @08:50AM from the we-are-the-robots dept.

dkd903 was one of several folks to note that a bunch of details about Google's Android 3.0 are beginning to leak out. The platform is codenamed Gingerbread; it includes video chat to compete with the iPhone, and a graphical overhaul to try to make it look a bit better compared to its rivals.

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Sense (or Sense inspired) all the way by Pojut · 2010-10-19 08:53 · Score: 3, Interesting

I gotta say, after messing around with Sense, I can't freakin' STAND the stock Android OS look. I'm currently running xtrSense on my Eris, which is a freakin' GREAT rom...but yeah, stock Android is just fugly.
Looking forward to a system-wide visual update.

--
Living With a Nerd
1. Re:Sense (or Sense inspired) all the way by catbutt · 2010-10-19 09:00 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Aside from the end user experience, as an Android developer (in the process of porting iphone apps) I can tell you that android sure makes it difficult to do the slick effects that on iPhone are practically free. For instance, the transitional animations that make the iPhone seem so slick are a nightmare to accomplish on Android. I hope they do a lot of work in this area.
2. Re:Sense (or Sense inspired) all the way by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-19 09:03 · Score: 0
  
  Funny, after messing around with vanilla Android, I can't freakin' stand Sense. Running CM6 on my Hero now.
3. Re:Sense (or Sense inspired) all the way by shadowrat · 2010-10-19 09:11 · Score: 1
  
  i always hear about how awesome sense is. as a developer, can one support sense? I would imagine if you could, you would need to download additional sdks from htc, then your stuff wouldn't run on anything other than an htc sense phone.
4. Re:Sense (or Sense inspired) all the way by AuMatar · 2010-10-19 09:29 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  As someone who uses his phone and complains about the battery life constantly- I'd rather that any dev who thinks these are a good idea gets his hands smashed with a hammer so he can never code again.
  
  --
  I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
5. Re:Sense (or Sense inspired) all the way by Tumbleweed · 2010-10-19 09:33 · Score: 0
  
  as an Android developer (in the process of porting iphone apps) I can tell you that android sure makes it difficult to do the slick effects that on iPhone are practically free.
  As an end user, I sure hope you make it really easy to turn off said 'slick effects.' That bullshit is the first thing I turn off when I get a new app.
6. Re:Sense (or Sense inspired) all the way by RyuuzakiTetsuya · 2010-10-19 09:41 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  bitblit operations and other 2D graphical effects are nearly free in terms of CPU and battery life.
  or should be, at any rate.
  
  --
  Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
7. Re:Sense (or Sense inspired) all the way by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-19 09:52 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  As someone with a visual impairment and education in human-machine interactions, I'd rather that anyone who thinks transition animations are just for show get their face smashed in with a hammer so they can understand why they're an important visual cue for performed actions.
8. Re:Sense (or Sense inspired) all the way by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-19 09:54 · Score: 0
  
  Also an Android developer here. I'd prefer they focus a lot on their API than making the UI look good, though I suppose the two aren't mutually exclusive as you pointed out. There are a lot of things which are incredibly cumbersome to do. I've seen several Arabic keyboards which use pictures for each key because you can't set the typeface in a KeyboardView (although strangely you can in a TextView and several others). Since almost every variable is marked private without getters or setters and these classes depend on the internal Android generated R.java file making it difficult to rewrite the class from scratch it's actually easier to use pictures for each key. This is a terrible compromise.
  
  I've discovered tons of things like this in Android where it just doesn't make sense why they decided to write a certain class like they did. I honestly don't know if iOS is any better, I've never developed for it as I quite dislike objective-c, but developing for Android can be frustrating to say the least. Having said that it does depend on what you want to do I suppose.
9. Re:Sense (or Sense inspired) all the way by phil4 · 2010-10-19 09:55 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  Sense is slick - but I switched to CM6 ( Cyanogen Mod 6.00, an Android Open Source Project based rom ) and was surprised that I didn't really miss anything that Sense had given me. I had already switched away from the very nice weather/clock widget because its weather was not very current and everything else is nearly equivalent. ( Sprint HTC Hero, not the newest/fastest phone but very snappy with CM6 and only slight overclocking )
10. Re:Sense (or Sense inspired) all the way by shmlco · 2010-10-19 09:57 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  People don't get it. UI animations -- done correctly -- aren't just bling. They tell people what happened, where things went, and where they're at in the application. The classic example is minimizing a window to an icon in the dock. The zooming rects reinforce what happened, where the window went, and where to find it again.
  On the iPhone such things are implemented as GPU effects, with a totally insignificant impact on battery life. If you're on Android, firing up the 3G radios for a single background check on Twitter posts burns through more power than all the daily UI animations on your phone combined.
  And if your battery life is really that bad, then buy a better phone next time...
  
  --
  Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
11. Re:Sense (or Sense inspired) all the way by poetmatt · 2010-10-19 10:04 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  really? ever seen touchwiz? ADW? What slick effects magically exist on iphone that aren't on android?
  I really hope you have actual examples in your next post, not just "wah iphone is better than android"
12. Re:Sense (or Sense inspired) all the way by PopeRatzo · 2010-10-19 10:08 · Score: 1
  
  I'd rather that anyone who thinks transition animations are just for show get their face smashed in with a hammer
  
  This is why we never let developers have hammers.
  
  --
  You are welcome on my lawn.
13. Re:Sense (or Sense inspired) all the way by david.given · 2010-10-19 10:26 · Score: 1
  
  Oddly enough, after using both stock Android and Sense, I can't stand Sense and would much, much rather have the standard Android UI. I think Sense is clunky and ugly and full of pointless changes (such as replacing a lot of the standard Android tabbed activities with strange ones with the tabs at the bottom and icons instead of textual labels).
  You may be interested to know that a colleague of mine recently reflashed his HTC Desire with a standard Froyo setup using the HTC drivers. He's now getting almost twice the battery life that he was with the HTC firmware.
  (Developer rant: Also, HTC just plain broke a lot of stuff with Sense; the different colour scheme, for example, has brightened the background colour of selected tabs so much that any third-party Android application that has designed its icons according to the Froyo style guide is now showing the user white icons against an off-white background, which is not user friendly.)
14. Re:Sense (or Sense inspired) all the way by imgod2u · 2010-10-19 10:37 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  I believe, as a developer of apps, he means the API's he has available to use those effects in *his app*. Not just the UI overlay that Samsung or HTC provides.
  But go on knee-jerking.
15. Re:Sense (or Sense inspired) all the way by AuMatar · 2010-10-19 10:48 · Score: 1
  
  No, they are exactly that- just bling. I know what happens when I minimize a window. Showing an animation only serves to slow me down and waste my time. I turn them off on any app and OS which allows it for precisely that reason. They're not a feature, they're a bug and a fucking annoying one at that.
  
  --
  I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
16. Re:Sense (or Sense inspired) all the way by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-19 10:55 · Score: 0
  
  If you find 0.28 second animations annoying then you're too stressed out to begin with.
17. Re:Sense (or Sense inspired) all the way by h4rr4r · 2010-10-19 10:57 · Score: 1
  
  I feel the exact opposite way. Sense is annoying and just clutters things up. CM6 for the win.
18. Re:Sense (or Sense inspired) all the way by TheRaven64 · 2010-10-19 11:01 · Score: 1
  
  Those operations are actually very cheap on the iPhone. They are implemented with CoreAnimation, which uses a layer model. Each view that has a layer renders to a texture. The GPU then composites them together. Sliding one layer over another typically uses less power than redrawing a single moderately complex view. It uses more RAM, because it does extra buffering, but it saves CPU cycles.
  
  --
  I am TheRaven on Soylent News
19. Re:Sense (or Sense inspired) all the way by binary+paladin · 2010-10-19 11:11 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  No. They're not. Those visual cues are important to A LOT of people.
  Of course, you're probably the kind of person who shuts off text anti-aliasing too.
20. Re:Sense (or Sense inspired) all the way by shmlco · 2010-10-19 11:13 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  If you're all that, perhaps I can interest you in Microsoft's new MS-DOS Command Line phone?
  No graphics whatsoever.
  
  --
  Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
21. Re:Sense (or Sense inspired) all the way by Fast+Thick+Pants · 2010-10-19 11:50 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Ah, fond memories of ECHO ATDP 63489 > COM1...
  (Greybeard three-fer: Dialing from the MS-DOS command prompt, pulse dialing no less, and, God as my witness, I actually used to be able to dial my uncle by using only five digits.)
  (Holy crap, I just remembered that my first modem was an acoustic coupler job that couldn't even dial, and I used to hand-dial into the BBS using a rotary phone. And for kicks I practiced pulse dialing by rapidly clicking the receiver button. I guess it's about time I got a lawn...)
22. Re:Sense (or Sense inspired) all the way by DigiShaman · 2010-10-19 12:11 · Score: 1
  
  Oh hell, why not go all out CLI with your phone. Sheesh.
  
  --
  Life is not for the lazy.
23. Re:Sense (or Sense inspired) all the way by mrawhimskell · 2010-10-19 12:59 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  We know you know and we acknowledge your geekiness. But I believe we are referring to the general populace which may not be as enlightened as you are. Give noobs a chance
24. Re:Sense (or Sense inspired) all the way by Oscar_Wilde · 2010-10-19 15:06 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  I know what happens when I minimize a window.
  You, sir, are not a typical user then. I know us geeks like to think we are a huge market segment that can dictate how things should be done but that is fantasy.
  Alas! We nerds are but a small pimple on the market's arse.
25. Re:Sense (or Sense inspired) all the way by poetmatt · 2010-10-19 16:45 · Score: 1
  
  I don't suppose it'd hurt for an actual example, not just saying that magically API's aren't capable? It's not like these people are programmers who can create their own functions or anything.
  *facepalm*
26. Re:Sense (or Sense inspired) all the way by Bu11etmagnet · 2010-10-19 17:33 · Score: 1
  
  I guess it's about time I got a lawn...
  
  Don't forget the matching M1 Garand and Ford Gran Torino.
  
  --
  Life is complex, with real and imaginary parts.
27. Re:Sense (or Sense inspired) all the way by Anne+Thwacks · 2010-10-19 19:18 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, I had one too, And the pulses had to go up hill, in the snow, both ways!
  
  --
  Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
28. Re:Sense (or Sense inspired) all the way by Anne+Thwacks · 2010-10-19 19:25 · Score: 1
  
  The obvious answer is to smash Steve Jobs with a hammer, then we can have a choice whether to use Sense or not.
  Actually, the person who needs smashing is the scumbag responsible for locking up my Desire, so I have to root it to remove Sense if I want to. (I like Sense, but I hate the phone being locked down - we are not forced to have the bonnet of our cars welded shut).
  However, Steve Jobs should probably still be hammered for suggesting consumer choice is bad, while not actually going to live in a communist country.
  
  --
  Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
29. Re:Sense (or Sense inspired) all the way by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-19 21:26 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  As someone who uses his phone and complains about the battery life constantly- I'd rather that any dev who thinks these are a good idea gets his hands smashed with a hammer so he can never code again.
  Most people don't understand how battery life is related to application behavior, unless there is one particular app that is extrememly bad about it. They most certainly wouldn't understand that turning off animations might help. What they DO understand, is that if your app looks like trash they'll ignore it and go with a flashy application which drains the battery, even if they bitch about the short battery life the entire time they are downloading the rival application.
  So as a dev, you can either add the 'bling' and have your app used, or remove it and watch everybody else use the competition's bling-heavy product. They will still bitch about battery life either way, since to most users battery life is a problem with the phone, not the application.
30. Re:Sense (or Sense inspired) all the way by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-19 21:36 · Score: 1, Interesting
  
  No, they are exactly that- just bling. I know what happens when I minimize a window. Showing an animation only serves to slow me down and waste my time.
  Great. What about the other 90% of UI effects? After all, you know where in the document you are, so get rid of the scroll bar position indicator, it's just bling. And using smooth scrolling within a file window, well you know what files you have so might as well shut that off too, after all you can use the 'search' function to find what you're looking for. And automatically changing icons based on file extension, well you know what kinds of files are what so no need for that either.
  In fact, the entire idea of a GUI is really just 'bling', so how about you just go back to using a CLI, then you'll be happy and we don't have to listen to you bitch.
  Or you could try installing your video card drivers, since most UI effects are hardware accelerated and don't actually slow anything down.
  
  They're not a feature, they're a bug and a fucking annoying one at that.
  Now you're just being a fucking drama queen. It might not be a feature you like, but that doesn't make it a bug, and the vast majority of people find them useful so you can piss off.
31. Re:Sense (or Sense inspired) all the way by GreyWolf3000 · 2010-10-19 21:58 · Score: 1
  
  As someone who uses his phone and complains about the battery life constantly- I'd rather that any dev who thinks these are a good idea gets his hands smashed with a hammer so he can never code again.
  Seriously, what world do you live in where you don't have to develop your application against a design specification?
  
  --
  Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
32. Re:Sense (or Sense inspired) all the way by bemymonkey · 2010-10-20 01:20 · Score: 1
  
  Are you freakin serious? As a Desire owner who's swapped the stock Sense interface for CyanogenMod's stock Android look and Launcher Pro, I couldn't agree less. Stock Android looks awesome, IMO, and I'd be extremely sad if Android 3.0 looked like ugly-ass HTC Sense. The curved dock at the bottom of the screen alone is... well, horrible.
33. Re:Sense (or Sense inspired) all the way by markkezner · 2010-10-20 05:28 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  You don't normally have to do anything to write an arbitrary app for an Andriod phone that happens to have Sense. You just write your app using the regular Android SDK and don't worry about it. Sense and other skins are just not relevant factors for almost any app you would want to write.
  
  --
  Dangerous, sexy, turing complete: Femme Bots
34. Re:Sense (or Sense inspired) all the way by Dog-Cow · 2010-10-20 06:27 · Score: 1
  
  I hope you die. Really, your waiting for your impending death must be agonizing. Why not stop waiting for your life to finish and just kill yourself? Thanks.
35. Re:Sense (or Sense inspired) all the way by imgod2u · 2010-10-20 10:08 · Score: 1
  
  Given an option between an API that gives me optimized graphical UI functions and one in which I'd have to create myself, I think I know which one to go with.
Video chat to compete with the iPhone by TheKidWho · 2010-10-19 08:55 · Score: 3, Insightful

How about video chat that works with the iPhone as well?
Would be nice to use my Epic to video chat with a friends iPhone.
1. Re:Video chat to compete with the iPhone by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-19 08:58 · Score: 0
  
  Fring.
2. Re:Video chat to compete with the iPhone by froggymana · 2010-10-19 08:58 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  I would like to know if the video chat for android will actually work over 3G (or 4G) then in comparison to the iPhone only working over wifi.
  
  --
  "To prevent this day from getting any worse, I'll just read ERROR as GOOD THING" 1GJU8xLuDKDxEs4KLf8fAGyptoDsqvEsBT
3. Re:Video chat to compete with the iPhone by Jugalator · 2010-10-19 09:06 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  How about video chat that works with the iPhone as well?
  I hope so too, but I fear that there's a penis size contest about to begin here. :-(
  I'm afraid Google would feel that following the FaceTime standard would risk giving away users to Apple.
  
  --
  Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
4. Re:Video chat to compete with the iPhone by Xtravar · 2010-10-19 09:09 · Score: 1
  
  Well, Apple's specification is open, so... hopefully?
  
  --
  Buckle your ROFL belt, we're in for some LOLs.
5. Re:Video chat to compete with the iPhone by shadowrat · 2010-10-19 09:12 · Score: 1
  
  probably not on AT&T
6. Re:Video chat to compete with the iPhone by roc97007 · 2010-10-19 09:15 · Score: 1
  
  > I'm afraid Google would feel that following the FaceTime standard would risk giving away users to Apple.
  I think you're right that they would feel like that. I see it as an opportunity to take users from Apple.
  
  --
  Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
7. Re:Video chat to compete with the iPhone by funkatron · 2010-10-19 09:16 · Score: 1
  
  I would like to know if the video chat for android will actually work over 3G (or 4G) then in comparison to the iPhone only working over wifi.
  It would surprise me if it didn't. 3G was launched with video calling, it was advertised back in the day. The technology to put the feature in shouldn't be a problem.
  Having said that, someone would still need to figure out why video calling didn't take off last time and how to stop that happening again.
  
  --
  "Welcome to our world. We are the wasted youth. And we are the future too." Yes, I know these are stupid lyrics.
8. Re:Video chat to compete with the iPhone by mrsteveman1 · 2010-10-19 09:16 · Score: 1
  
  What specification? All I see are a bunch of phones and iPods being sold that can video call each other. I see no specification that anyone else could follow even if they wanted to, even Google.
9. Re:Video chat to compete with the iPhone by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-19 09:22 · Score: 0
  
  http://tango.me
10. Re:Video chat to compete with the iPhone by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-19 09:24 · Score: 0
  
  Video calling didn't take off last time because nobody really cares about seeing the other person's face, or having the other person see their face, when they're calling them. Good luck fixing that one.
11. Re:Video chat to compete with the iPhone by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-19 09:25 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  How about video chat that works with the iPhone as well?
  I hope so too, but I fear that there's a penis size contest about to begin here. :-(
  I'm afraid Google would feel that following the FaceTime standard would risk giving away users to Apple.
  How the fuck is FaceTime a standard? It was first mentioned on June 7, 2010. I've been using Skype to video chat on my N900 for about a year. And people in Europe have been video chatting using some other Nokia thingamajig for a year or two before that. May have been using Gizmo or something.
  Really. Apple didn't do anything impressive with FaceTime. Just use the Google Voice or Skype apps to video chat. They've been around long enough to be mentioned as a standard without people laughing in your face.
12. Re:Video chat to compete with the iPhone by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-19 09:29 · Score: 0
  
  The spec isn't open yet. Facetime is known to use lots of standard technologies (sip, h.264 etc) but it has an extra encrypted stage of call setup that hasn't been published yet.
13. Re:Video chat to compete with the iPhone by Anaerin · 2010-10-19 09:29 · Score: 1
  
  I was under the impression that "FaceTime" was just an implementation of Video over SIP, which has been around for a long time now.
14. Re:Video chat to compete with the iPhone by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-19 09:30 · Score: 0
  
  You can do it now with tango. (http://tango.me)
  Works on iPhone too...
15. Re:Video chat to compete with the iPhone by AvitarX · 2010-10-19 09:33 · Score: 1
  
  Funny how my experience with people using skype doesn't match yours.
  With skype it's how everyone I know does it, and it probably has a lot to do with the fact that everyone has a laptop with camera, mic, and speakers, so there is no need to buy a special device.
  It's also way better quality than stuff was back then. Even as phones get enough resolution, I would be someone surprised to see video take off there, because of shaky hands holding it, and not a particularly large screen, but video chat in general is alive and well with everyone I know that has friends in different continents (note, I just IM, so not me).
  
  --
  Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
16. Re:Video chat to compete with the iPhone by EXrider · 2010-10-19 09:34 · Score: 1
  
  Already exists. Check out Tango.
  
  --
  grep -iw skynet /etc/services
17. Re:Video chat to compete with the iPhone by Gerald · 2010-10-19 09:34 · Score: 1
  
  The calls themselves are STUN and SIP. FaceTime server registration is another matter apparently.
18. Re:Video chat to compete with the iPhone by Fast+Thick+Pants · 2010-10-19 09:43 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Just use the Google Voice or Skype apps to video chat. They've been around long enough to be mentioned as a standard without people laughing in your face.
  Presumably you mean Google Talk, which uses the Jabber/XMPP messaging standard. The Skype protocol is spooky and mysterious, but I guess it's a defacto standard. FaceTime on the other hand is such a non-standard that it doesn't even work on Macs yet.
19. Re:Video chat to compete with the iPhone by JonySuede · 2010-10-19 09:51 · Score: 1
  
  what facetime standard ? Face time is a mix of h.264, SIP, RTP, and a whole other list of alphabet soup standards brewed according to a proprietary recipe pretty that pass as a standard pretty much like what IMS is...
  
  --
  Jehovah be praised, Oracle was not selected
20. Re:Video chat to compete with the iPhone by bhcompy · 2010-10-19 10:13 · Score: 1
  
  That's not how any of my friends use skype unless we're having a conference call/rolemaster session. Then it's just one webcam on the hex board. I don't need/want to see people when I call them
21. Re:Video chat to compete with the iPhone by Nadaka · 2010-10-19 10:26 · Score: 1
  
  My friends EVO can do video calls over 3g if you have a relatively strong signal with a little frame dropping. Where I live, the signal is pretty low (max out around 300kbps) so I have not had a chance to test my new Epic that well, and we both don't live in 4g areas. You will notice an improvement in video quality and stability if you use wifi though.
22. Re:Video chat to compete with the iPhone by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-19 10:31 · Score: 0
  
  Your friends are anti-social nerds. Dilemma solved.
23. Re:Video chat to compete with the iPhone by Altus · 2010-10-19 10:36 · Score: 1
  
  I enjoy being able to see my friends who live in distant countries when I am chatting with them. Sure its not necessary, and I would probably never use it with someone I see every day, but in some ways, it is kind of nice.
  
  --
  "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson
24. Re:Video chat to compete with the iPhone by Xtravar · 2010-10-19 10:40 · Score: 1
  
  Apple announced it would be an open spec; I have no idea if they released it yet or not. Just going off of what Steve Jobs said during his key note address at WWDC.
  
  --
  Buckle your ROFL belt, we're in for some LOLs.
25. Re:Video chat to compete with the iPhone by TheRaven64 · 2010-10-19 11:07 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Presumably you mean Google Talk, which uses the Jabber/XMPP messaging standard.
  Specifically, it uses Jingle for voice and video. Jingle originated at Google, but they published it as a standard (actually, a family of standards), in the form of a set of XEPs. In contrast, Steve Jobs said that FaceTime would be published as a standard, but I have yet to see any documentation of the protocol from Apple.
  
  --
  I am TheRaven on Soylent News
26. Re:Video chat to compete with the iPhone by cynyr · 2010-10-19 11:23 · Score: 1
  
  Not only that, is there facetime for linux, windows, or mac? Google does more than just phones, and the linux support is usually pretty good, even when it is only "works with wine"
  
  --
  All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
27. Re:Video chat to compete with the iPhone by camperslo · 2010-10-19 11:29 · Score: 1
  
  Since Steve said that FaceTime specification will be open, and we have access to Android source, can't others just take the source, add FaceTime support, and make the modified binary/source available? (sometime if not today)
  If Google wants to add support for something else fine... why not keep support for both?
  I'm assuming that people can actually do useful things like this with the Android source.
  Did I miss something? Have any here modified/built/installed the Android you're running?
28. Re:Video chat to compete with the iPhone by Americano · 2010-10-19 12:28 · Score: 1
  
  Maybe you should get better looking friends.
29. Re:Video chat to compete with the iPhone by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-19 12:32 · Score: 0
  
  Not until tomorrow anyway.
  If it didn't bother Google to use Apple's webkit for Google Chrome it won't bother them to use the Facetime standard.
  Oh and Google also uses Grand Central which is another open sourced Apple technology.
  Plus they have huge numbers of Mac Book Pro's since thats what people at Google prefer.
30. Re:Video chat to compete with the iPhone by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-19 14:07 · Score: 0
  
  How about video chat that works with the iPhone as well?
  Would be nice to use my Epic to video chat with a friends iPhone.
  There is an app' that does that, called "Tango".
  I use it on my Epic to chat with HTC Evo's, other Epic's, and iPhone's...You can also use Qik to video chat with other Android phones (HTC Evo or another Epic for example). Works on 3G and pretty dang well too. Last time I checked FaceTime required wifi.
31. Re:Video chat to compete with the iPhone by mr100percent · 2010-10-19 17:14 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  FaceTime is using open, unencrypted protocols and is looking to share it and make it interoperate with others. Skype is proprietary closed-source that blocks competitors (like Fring).
  FaceTime uses H.264, AAC, SIP, STUN, TURN, ICE, RTP, and SRTP. All open standard protocols that someone could make work with iPhones/iPods. I'm surprised nobody put together a Windows app to connect to them. Imagine how popular Oovoo would be against Skype if they had this feature
32. Re:Video chat to compete with the iPhone by mr100percent · 2010-10-19 17:19 · Score: 2, Informative
  Apple showed the list of protocols in FaceTime during the keynote.
  H.264 and AAC, its ISO/MPEG video and audio codecs (just like iChat).
  SIP (Session Initiation Protocol), the open IETF signaling protocol for VoIP used by iChat AV.
  STUN (Session Traversal Utilities for NAT), an IETF standard for dealing with lots of different kinds of NAT.
  TURN (Traversal Using Relay NAT), an IETF standard for allowing a client behind NAT to receive incoming requests like a server.
  ICE (Interactive Connectivity Establishment) an IETF standard which helps set up connections through NAT firewalls.
  RTP (Real-time Transport Protocol), an iETF standard for delivering media streams in VoIP.
  SRTP (Secure RTP) an IETF standard designed to provide encryption, message authentication and integrity for the data streams.
  They said they want it to be an open standard. It's not an encrypted protocol.
33. Re:Video chat to compete with the iPhone by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-21 16:29 · Score: 0
  
  H264 is a licensed product. Since you are encoding video, their no-royalty web decryption promise doesn't apply. It's blocking of competitors involves charging a possible obscene licensing fee (or jacking it up after you commit your resources).
  If it's so open, why don't you link for us the specifications to all necessary components?
  Nice try. =P
  Also, wouldn't you WANT your video chats encrypted (especially for business)?
  Incidentally, good luck establishing routing between two clients when UPnP is turned off the router. I don't want viruses randomly using my computer as a server of some sort.
34. Re:Video chat to compete with the iPhone by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-23 16:39 · Score: 0
  
  FaceTime is simply IMS, the part of the 4G standards that does calls/sms/etc. IMS is based on SIP and other VoIP standards. Unfortunately it specifies some proprietary codecs (AAC, AMR, H.264 etc).
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_Multimedia_Subsystem
Excellent by MonsterTrimble · 2010-10-19 08:57 · Score: 1

Now, how soon can I get this on an Archos 4.3?

--
I call it 'The Aristocrats'
1. Re:Excellent by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-19 12:02 · Score: 0
  
  If you read correctly what was the upgrade path of other Archos devices, you'd know the answer : NEVER ! (but with lots and lots of fanboys claiming the contrary...)
Open System by codepunk · 2010-10-19 08:57 · Score: 1

Awesome, who is going to download and install the upgrade?

--

Got Code?
1. Re:Open System by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-19 09:00 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Everyone who was smart enough to get a Nexus One rather than locked down Motorola garbage.
2. Re:Open System by mark72005 · 2010-10-19 09:09 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  Shouldn't be flamebait - taking an accurate shot at a company like Motorola for being evil is not flameworthy.
3. Re:Open System by Drathos · 2010-10-19 12:07 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  My Motorola Droid isn't locked down. I probably would have gotten a Nexus One if it had made it to Verizon, but it didn't. And switching to AT&T or T-Mobile wasn't an option, since Verizon is the only network with halfway decent coverage where I spend most of my time.
  Unless things change drastically, however, my next phone will not be a Motorola.
  
  --
  End of line..
4. Re:Open System by tepples · 2010-10-19 12:13 · Score: 1
  
  Everyone who was smart enough to get a Nexus One
  The key word being "was", past tense. As of now, you have to be a registered Android application developer to get one.
5. Re:Open System by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-19 12:38 · Score: 1
  
  And everyone who was smart enough to buy a Nokia N900, which doesn't even come with Android, but gives you enough control over the device you bought to install it anyway...
  There's certainly a good handful of phones that you can install anything on right now, but AFAIK the N900 and Nexus One are the only ones that were released that way intentionally.
6. Re:Open System by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-19 21:06 · Score: 0
  
  They don't include the root password in the box. How can you call that anything but locked down?
7. Re:Open System by YouWantFriesWithThat · 2010-10-20 01:21 · Score: 1
  
  Unless things change drastically, however, my next phone will not be a Motorola.
  no kidding. i have a droid 1 and can pretty much root it and do whatever i want to, and it runs the standard android OS. i played around with my warranty and got a droid 2 as a replacement, which was a piece of garbage. the custom motorola skinned OS was terrible, the custom gallery was laggy and crashed, and the custom SMS app was buggy and really, really ugly.
  
  i kept my droid 1 with the crackling headphone jack and returned the brand new droid 2. i hope someone comes out with a new android phone that is not locked down and with a physical keyboard. in a year or two i am going to be trying to find an upgrade, and it is looking dismal right now.
8. Re:Open System by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-20 02:03 · Score: 0
  
  Everyone who was smart enough to get a Nexus One
  The key word being "was", past tense. As of now, you have to be a registered Android application developer to get one.
  Which is a whopping $25 USD by the way.
9. Re:Open System by tepples · 2010-10-20 02:24 · Score: 1
  
  As of now, you have to be a registered Android application developer to get [a Nexus One handset].
  Which is a whopping $25 USD by the way.
  One-time, or recurring like the iPhone developer program?
10. Re:Open System by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-20 05:10 · Score: 0
  
  One-time.
Just in time... by skuzzlebutt · 2010-10-19 08:59 · Score: 1

...for AT&T/Motorola to delay upgrading my Backflip to 2.1 again.
Worst purchase ever.

--
My debut novel AMITY now available: http://jeremydbrooks.c
1. Re:Just in time... by FreonTrip · 2010-10-19 09:04 · Score: 1
  
  My Cliq XT's been no picnic, let me tell you. The update to 2.1 was promised back in the second quarter, and we're still waiting. It would be swell to receive a surprise around Christmas... and there's a very slim chance that might happen, since there was a freak unexpected update pushed out last week. Any sign of life is, at this point, welcome.
2. Re:Just in time... by denis-The-menace · 2010-10-19 09:17 · Score: 1
  
  Thank you Google for the fragmentation.
  I've see some posts of users claiming *they* upgraded to 2.2 without waiting for their MFR to lockdown their own.
  Can you brick the Phone if you try to upgrade to 2.2?
  
  --
  Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
3. Re:Just in time... by roc97007 · 2010-10-19 09:24 · Score: 1
  
  > Can you brick the Phone if you try to upgrade to 2.2?
  Can you? Sure. Will you? Probably not.
  
  --
  Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
4. Re:Just in time... by paziek · 2010-10-19 09:39 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah. My G1 is running 2.2. Its nice to have USB tether, but apart from that there isn't anything worth it tbh. At least not for me. Also, when I playback music whole phone is laggy. But its first Android phone and hardware ain't really that good anymore... tho keyboard and trackball are just perfect.
5. Re:Just in time... by AvitarX · 2010-10-19 15:57 · Score: 1
  
  Agreed on the keyboard and trackball.
  Especially the keyboard. By far the best phone keyboard I've ever used.
  1.6 was a huge leap, and it looks like apps are starting to be 2.1+ now (skype for example) so there is that too. Also, sync to FB, and sync to multiple accounts are nice features. Really motorola should drop blur and use plain old android if it is causing issues. Most of what blur offers on 1.5 is now in android (soft keyboard, facebook integration, outlook email).
  The 1.5 in the cliq is a real pain, can't even use google navigation.
  
  --
  Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
6. Re:Just in time... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-21 14:29 · Score: 0
  
  Then you'll be happy to hear this: 2.1 (update1) upgrades on Cliq & CliqXT are almost finalized. Hang in there.
We already have video chat by Superken7 · 2010-10-19 09:01 · Score: 5, Insightful

but google wants to compete with google talk video chat with the rest of video providers.
They better have API support for front cameras and all that new stuff, because thats something that is clearly missing in todays API, while there are already several phones with front-facing cameras in the market.
Its possible to interact with them by setting the appropiate parameters in the API, but those parameters are not consistent across devices.
Overall, I think the biggest 3.0 change should be look&feel.
And I hope they don't just overhaul the UI and write beautiful google apps. I hope they do a complete UI tools overhaul so develpers can effortlessly create beautiful apps. Im not buying any of that fragmentation nonsense crap. The real issue is a lack of a "Interface builer" so we can build beautiful apps with no extra effort.
Combine a really good "interface builder", "default layout settings" or whatever it might be with Android's customization and we got a clear winner in the UI and UX space.
Thats my 2c
1. Re:We already have video chat by Superken7 · 2010-10-19 09:05 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Speaking of effortless nice Android UIs:
  In an effort to make creating a nice Android UI less painful I started this small project called Android Theme Samples.
  Its just like the Android Samples, where many examples are combined into a single downloadable app so you can browse it, try it and get those parts that better fit your own app.
  Its up in github for anyone to take and contribute: http://github.com/pllopis/AndroidThemeSamples
  I just got started and only a "light" theme and an "Action Bar" UI pattern are included. (Mind the design, I am not a designer).
  Would be really great if others contributed their own design :)
2. Re:We already have video chat by mrsteveman1 · 2010-10-19 09:18 · Score: 1
  
  Interface builder is needed, i'm tired of trying to write UI's in relational XML.
3. Re:We already have video chat by kozchris1 · 2010-10-19 09:31 · Score: 1
  
  Using the interface builder that ships with X-Code as a template should give Google a great starting point as to what it should do. They should copy the instrumentation capability from X-code while they are at it.
4. Re:We already have video chat by robmv · 2010-10-19 09:49 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Android UI Utilities, it is no interface builder but good for prototyping before building the XML UIs
5. Re:We already have video chat by Makzu · 2010-10-19 10:01 · Score: 1
  
  Do you mean something like this?
6. Re:We already have video chat by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-19 11:24 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  Why not contribute to the existing project instead of making your own?
  I think this is where Android is failing, developers ego's
7. Re:We already have video chat by Superken7 · 2010-10-19 20:16 · Score: 1
  
  Well put, i agree with that.
  But the way this samples are structured makes it difficult to directy contribute to aosp:
  I think at most you could contribute some xmls and 9patches but the idea is to have a lot of themes and pngs and different resources put together into a samole activity so others can actually (and effortlessly) see whay it looks like.
  It could be cobtributed as a new project as a whole maybe.
  Either way, i think this isnt mature enough to be contributed. I agree that excellent themes could/should be contributed to aosp.
Maemo by bcmm · 2010-10-19 09:03 · Score: 2, Interesting

Maemo already does SIP calls and video chat.

--
# cat /dev/mem | strings | grep -i llama
Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
1. Re:Maemo by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-19 09:19 · Score: 0
  
  thought the same thing. the only thing that maemo misses are better handsets. i hope meego will change that.
Encryption please! by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-19 09:04 · Score: 3, Interesting

Waiting for manageable full disk encryption, plus capability to encrypt the SD card. Android will never be fully accepted into the enterprise if this doesn't happen. Touchdown is ok, but doesn't really scale well across a huge client base.
1. Re:Encryption please! by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-19 09:07 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  Touchdown sucks.
  It is fugly and outdated. There are *far* better options out there now. Try going into the Android market once in a while....
2. Re:Encryption please! by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-19 09:52 · Score: 0
  
  Such as? Something that is able to be managed across the enterprise?
3. Re:Encryption please! by gnu-user · 2010-10-20 09:35 · Score: 1
  
  RIM has that market sown up.
  But... that markets peaked. Most companies will end up with cell phone allowances.
  Only a small slice of companies need the control RIM offers.
SIP would be great by jonescb · 2010-10-19 09:08 · Score: 3, Insightful

Unfortunately, I think SIP support in Google Voice is going to be gutted in the US like how the Skype app works. I'm sure everybody in Europe will be free to make calls over SIP, but all us Americans will be stuck with Wifi only. Even if we could make calls over 3G, it's fairly difficult to find a carrier that will sell you only a data plan at a reasonable rate. For example, Sprint will sell you a 3G plan, but it's $50 a month, which is only $10 a month less than the data+voice bundle.
1. Re:SIP would be great by Wonko+the+Sane · 2010-10-19 09:19 · Score: 1
  
  I'd like to know if other users of Google Voice will get SIP access, or only mobile users.
2. Re:SIP would be great by mrsteveman1 · 2010-10-19 09:31 · Score: 1
  
  There are already full SIP apps in the market, you're saying Google is going to cripple their own Voice app to make carriers happy?
3. Re:SIP would be great by ickleberry · 2010-10-19 09:53 · Score: 1
  
  It would be interesting to see how good they implement it.
  
  I've been using SIP since 2007 on my Nokia E61, E51 and now E63 and it has always been that bit finnicky. Very finnicky compared to a proper decent Cisco IP phone anyway
4. Re:SIP would be great by priegog · 2010-10-19 10:08 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  What I'm really looking forward about this is that the current (to my knowledge) most battery efficient app on the market today (Sipdroid) absolutely DEVOURS my battery, making it impossible for me to leave it running in the background. I'd really love a completely "virtual" phone in the sense that I could use it as a full time SIP phone, but so far, it's either take a charger everywhere I go or just use it for outgoing calls. Hopefully (probably?) Google will make an awesome app that doesn't use a lot of battery, making it usable.
  Google providing a SIP account would be great too. One less thing to configure.
  And yes, I'm in Europe, and yes I pay less than 15 Euro/month for my calls + internet. It's even a prepaid "plan", so I didn't sign anything. /bragging (I DID however have to pay 150 Euro for my free {as in freedom} HTC Magic {yay eBay!}.)
5. Re:SIP would be great by Sark666 · 2010-10-19 11:55 · Score: 1
  
  I agree but from what I've read, isn't 3g bad with latency?
6. Re:SIP would be great by ic3p1ck · 2010-10-19 15:30 · Score: 1
  
  Get and support CSipSimple! It's much better even in alpha.
  I'm still waiting for a SIP client that does G729, I'm hoping they provide that in CSipSimple soon (even if it costs $$)
7. Re:SIP would be great by priegog · 2010-10-19 18:45 · Score: 1
  
  Thanks for the tip, will check it out!
8. Re:SIP would be great by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-20 03:32 · Score: 0
  
  T-Mobile offers their Unlimited 3G data plan for smartphones for $39.99 with no requirement for a voice or texting plan.
OpenVPN without root by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-19 09:10 · Score: 3, Interesting

The only thing that I need is to be able to connect to my office OpenVPN without having to root the freakin' phone.
My N900 does it, but I'm stuck with IPSec on the Desire which fails completely because of damnable NAT from the telco (Vodafone and O2 in my case!)
Our sales droids would love to have an Android!
1. Re:OpenVPN without root by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-20 13:23 · Score: 0
  
  Vodafone here (.NZ) has an APN that will give you an Internet IP address, just ask your Telco account manager.
AT&T/Moto by mark72005 · 2010-10-19 09:11 · Score: 1

I bet that soon you get to hear it will stay on 1.5 "for best hardware and software experience" (aka, we can't be bothered to waste labor on figuring out how to get it to work with our POS phone)

I feel your pain... I got one of those initially, but eventually (as many have done) paid full price for a no one just to not have to use an AT&T/motorola android phone anymore
Catch up by DeionXxX · 2010-10-19 09:16 · Score: 3, Insightful

It's disappointing that they are now playing catchup again. How about some features that the iPhone doesn't have that it would want to copy? Android may have some great devs behind it but they surely don't seem to have anyone that is trying to come up with new and interesting things to put on the Android (like some sort of "idea man"). Everything they seem to do is to make it more and more commoditized and more generic. I'm not saying they shouldn't work on things like Video Chat, but I think they should also try to come up with that one "great new shiny thing" at least once a release. Flash was a complete bomb since it took months and months for it to roll out to everyone and then it was super buggy and slow. Pretty soon, phone manufacturers aren't even going to advertise "This phone is using Android"... because there's no buzz about it anymore. Consumers could hardly care less about building in "me too" features 6-12 months after a competitor's phone has it.
This is from a long time Android user.
1. Re:Catch up by tknd · 2010-10-19 13:15 · Score: 2, Informative
  I don't think they're playing catchup. They've already described some of the upcoming features like C2MD (cloud to mobile device) and there are a lot of things in iOS land that don't exist in Android land. For example bluetooth file transfers are enabled in 2.x androids while iOS doesn't have it. Similarly Android still has a lot of design that hasn't been copied by iOS (yet) like fully replaceable components such as keyboards and clients (SMS, email, etc). Multitasking still makes more sense in Android from a dev viewpoint and the notification bar actually is useful as it prevents a lot of unnecessary popups that steal attention or focus.
  There's only a few areas that I think are actually important/useful in iOS that Android is still lacking: hardware graphics acceleration (by default), screenshots, a certain missing UI widgets (for developers).
  That doesn't mean there are things I wish android had. One of them is bluetooth HID in the stock firmware for connecting keyboards and other input devices. But will iOS ever support this? If Jobs had his way, it wouldn't ever support that because that would mean random company or business making crap hardware for his products without paying royalties or being blessed by Apple first.
  Here's some other things that android has that iOS still doesn't have:
  
  3rd party application installs (without a market)
  built-in wifi hotspot
  home-screen widgets
  3rd party home-screen/launcher customization
  emulation
  Google Voice integration
  hardware keyboard models
2. Re:Catch up by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-19 13:55 · Score: 1, Interesting
  
  What are you talking about...flash on Android is a complete bomb? I use it daily to watch videos from NyTimes, Aljazeera, etc. My web browsing experience is complete with this plugin. So what if a few finger gestures are missing...it works and plays videos flawlessly for me.
3. Re:Catch up by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-19 14:03 · Score: 0
  
  I don't care who comes up with an app first. I credit those who come up with a better and usable app.
4. Re:Catch up by DeionXxX · 2010-10-19 15:54 · Score: 1
  
  I don't know about you, but my experience is MUCH worse. Flash ads on a desktop might be a bit annoying but on a Droid, they completely make the site unusable. Also, I am a Flash and Android dev and the performance if you want to do any normal "Flash" stuff is horrendous. Try doing anything that involved drawing to the screen. Unless all you have is a static app you can't make a performant Flash app on Android yet. It's just not possible.
5. Re:Catch up by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-19 15:59 · Score: 0
  
  Have you used Google Voice Actions?! I think it's the most exciting feature in computing in years. I would love to see Apple try and implement that.
  Oh and what about Navigation?!
6. Re:Catch up by MorpheousMarty · 2010-10-20 03:16 · Score: 1
  
  Android may have some great devs behind it but they surely don't seem to have anyone that is trying to come up with new and interesting things
  
  Catching up quickly is a strength of open source. Highly refined innovative features are a strength of a closed, leader driven team. IMHO Android should focus on being compatible with everything, and remaining nimble, not paving the way. When Apple announces something in the summer, I want a working Android equivalent by the holidays, that is compatible with as many similar solutions as possible. Case in point, Apple created Face Time, Android 3.0 should have Google Talk Video chat working, compatible with every open Video chat standard that they can this year.
  After implementing a feature from a competitor, Android can build on it very quickly, which Apple always fails to do. Conversely, great new ideas on Android often have too many rough edges to be really usable.
  Bottom line, I love innovation happening in as many places as possible, but I feel that Android is probably not an efficient place to do it. They focus on technical details more than user experience, and I love them for it.
FIX BUGS! by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-19 09:20 · Score: 0

They'd better start fixing bugs:
http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/list
"video chat to compete with the iPhone" by MobyDisk · 2010-10-19 09:25 · Score: 2, Funny

includes video chat to compete with the iPhone
Great! So Google intends to release a completely proprietary chat application that only supports WiFi and only works with people who have the same exact model phone as you? Oh wait, this is Google... Hmmmm.... somehow, I don't think that's what they will do...
1. Re:"video chat to compete with the iPhone" by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-19 10:12 · Score: 0
  
  Google will develop a great new video chat system that works across multiple devices. Then their ADD will kick in and they will move on to something else while the feature is in the "functional, but not very polished" stage. Then the carriers will get their hands on it and lock down the feature so that it only works when you pay an additional fee to activate it and use it with their special proprietary app that is uninstallable, always runs, and introduces a bunch of new bugs. And it will be loudly defended as the greatest thing ever and better than anything that Microsoft or Apple or RIM ever comes up with because it's "open".
2. Re:"video chat to compete with the iPhone" by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-19 16:53 · Score: 0
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FaceTime - the plan is it is headed towards open standardhood. Nothing else makes sense really, phone communication that doesn't work with all phones is kinda stupid.
Nice by binarylarry · 2010-10-19 09:25 · Score: 0

In response to Steve Job's tirade, Google would like to paraphrase Ghandi in saying
First we own you,
Then you laugh at us,
Then we own you again,
Then we win

--
Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
1. Re:Nice by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-19 11:01 · Score: 0
  
  @binarylarry Who wins? Google? check. VERIZONTMOBILEATTSPRINT? Check. Users? Nope.
What The Fuck Are You Babbling About? by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-19 09:25 · Score: 0, Insightful

Android is completely destroying all other cellphone OSes on the market.
Android sales are accelerating at an insane rate quarter after quarter.
Android is selling so well that Steve Jobs just embarrassed himself with an angry tirade after Google dumped his cellphone into third place in sales.
Yeah, dipshit, "there's no buzz about it anymore."
1. Re:What The Fuck Are You Babbling About? by DeionXxX · 2010-10-19 10:56 · Score: 1
  
  Great troll. I believe the numbers posted on TechCrunch yesterday say it all... both platforms are accelerating neck and neck ... iOS devices had 300k/day activations in the past month. Which is similar to Android.
  Also, these numbers are getting inflated because lower end phones are being sold with Android now. So it's not like people are picking between Droid and iPhone so it's apples to apples... it's more like iPhone 4 vs Crappy $50 Android Phone. Those aren't technically direct competitors.
  On the other hand, iOS activations could iPod Touches and iPad's which isn't quite fair either.
  Lastly, suck a dick.
2. Re:What The Fuck Are You Babbling About? by FauxPasIII · 2010-10-19 11:45 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  So it's not like people are picking between Droid and iPhone so it's apples to apples... it's more like iPhone 4 vs Crappy $50 Android Phone. Those aren't technically direct competitors.
  If you're an app developer and your app isn't CPU or GPU intensive, the "crappy" $50 Android phone is just as much another potential customer as someone with an Evo or Epic or Droid is.
  
  --
  25% Funny, 25% Insightful, 25% Informative, 25% Troll
3. Re:What The Fuck Are You Babbling About? by exomondo · 2010-10-19 13:23 · Score: 1
  
  it's more like iPhone 4 vs Crappy $50 Android Phone.
  Out of interest what $50 android phones are there?
4. Re:What The Fuck Are You Babbling About? by DeionXxX · 2010-10-19 15:51 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dwireless-phones&field-keywords=android&x=0&y=0
  A bunch of phones are on that list and under $50.
  When I got my phone, my wife got hers (Droid Eris) for free. There were a bunch of other promotions like buy a Droid X and get any other phone for free etc... It's stuff like this that inflates the numbers. My wife probably wouldn't have gotten an Android based phone and she doesn't download apps in the marketplace or anything like that. So I don't think developers are benefiting from these low-end android phones.
5. Re:What The Fuck Are You Babbling About? by exomondo · 2010-10-19 16:04 · Score: 1
  
  http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dwireless-phones&field-keywords=android&x=0&y=0
  A bunch of phones are on that list and under $50.
  They only seem to go at that price with a service plan, and the iphone4 is free on service plans here in australia.
Audio Pipeline API!! by jbuck · 2010-10-19 09:29 · Score: 1

Oh, please add audio pipeline API so sound processing and EQ apps can be created to effect (read: improve) all media audio out. Like SRS Wow and similar.

--
-whoa, I'm jones'ing for a sig right about now...
1. Re:Audio Pipeline API!! by priegog · 2010-10-19 09:58 · Score: 0, Offtopic
  
  *affect
  Seriously: the difference between those 2 words is abysmal. And about 80% of the times I see one of them written online they really meant the other one. This cannot be explained by simple ignorance/randomness! The other pair of similar words that are written wrong about 85% of the time are to/too.
  Some insight into the phenomenon would be greatly appreciated.
2. Re:Audio Pipeline API!! by stoanhart · 2010-10-19 10:08 · Score: 1
  
  I'm pretty sure a few months ago at some conference, the Android team did Q&A with the audience and this came up. They explicitly said that this is a feature they are working on.
3. Re:Audio Pipeline API!! by Chees0rz · 2010-10-19 10:09 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  I to hope your post has effected the masses to provide a positive affect on they're children in relaying this all to important information that will someday determine weather or not there SAT scores will be effected.
4. Re:Audio Pipeline API!! by the_brobdingnagian · 2010-10-19 10:20 · Score: 1
  
  Observational bias?
5. Re:Audio Pipeline API!! by jbuck · 2010-10-19 10:28 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, yeah, I meant 'affect' there. Er, no wait, I meant "effect signal shaping of all media audio out"
  irregardless, I hope my PCM101-Intro to Communications students don't see this post!
  
  --
  -whoa, I'm jones'ing for a sig right about now...
6. Re:Audio Pipeline API!! by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-19 10:39 · Score: 1, Informative
  
  Seriously: the difference between those 2 words is abysmal. And about 80%...
  When a colon introduces two or more sentences, or when it introduces speech in dialogue or an extract, the first word following it is capitalized.
  -Chicago Manual of Style
7. Re:Audio Pipeline API!! by Max+Littlemore · 2010-10-19 18:53 · Score: 1
  
  Obviously the mods could care less about language nazis
  
  --
  I don't therefore I'm not.
Welcome to 2004, Google by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-19 09:54 · Score: 0

Symbian ever since 2004, has SIP and video chat built in.
And yet ppl hate it so much just cuz it’s not coming from the company that is allegedly not “evil”.
1. Re:Welcome to 2004, Google by JonySuede · 2010-10-19 10:02 · Score: 1
  
  no, it is just that before qt coding for the particular dialect of C++ used by sybian was a pain in the ass
  
  --
  Jehovah be praised, Oracle was not selected
2. Re:Welcome to 2004, Google by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-19 12:40 · Score: 0
  
  sybian was a pain in the ass
  If your Sybian is hurting your ass, get off it!
Obilgatory C.J. quote.... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-19 09:56 · Score: 0

The biggest software company on the face of the planet didn't get where they are today by wasting time fixing bugs.
Hint: They continuously replace versions and force customers to repurchase the software on a never-ending upgrade treadmill. History has proven that the customers will actually put up with this shenanigans, and keep running back waving handfuls of money, shouting "Thank you sir, may I have another" again and again. Google will no doubt follow Microsoft in this manner (as has Apple done also) because it has been proven a very successful strategy over time.
FIX. THE. FUCKING. DATEPICKER.. by ckaminski · 2010-10-19 10:02 · Score: 1

FIX. THE. FUCKING. DATEPICKER..

Goddamn it.

+/- keys are not appropriate in a touch/drag interface. Dials are better.
1. Re:FIX. THE. FUCKING. DATEPICKER.. by lightversusdark · 2010-10-20 05:30 · Score: 1
  
  This!!
  As well as crap interaction, the UI objects are damn ugly, and don't scale nicely.
  Date and time together don't fit on a single line of a regular screen.
  After using the iOS UIDatePicker I thought the Android offering was a joke.
  The first time I read the API docs I was convinced it must be a joke.
  I scrolled around expecting it to say:
  "Obviously, developers should be using class X in preference to this steaming mess."
  There is absolutely no consistency between the DatePicker and TimePicker classes.
  The DateView takes its listener in an init method (WHY??), the TimeView has a set method.
  The DateView is updated with a single call (or when you want to set the listener LOL), the TimeView has separate methods to set hours, minutes and AM/PM.
  Actually making use of them is a massive headache.
  Come on guys, I probably want to handle my date/timestamp in UTC and as a localized string, at a bare minimum.
  It's pointless building on what's in the API because it doesn't even work properly!
  Time.format doesn't implement strftime options correctly, with no information about what is actually supported at all from the man page it refers you to. At least developers on Windows won't be misled.
  App development for Android takes extra work handling these sort of things, because even if things are fixed in future versions not all devices will get the upgrade.
  The issue of fragmentation becomes more serious when such basic elements of the platform are left neglected for so long. This should have been put right after the first public release at the latest.
  
  --
  "There is nothing nice about Steve Jobs and nothing evil about Bill Gates." - Chuck Peddle
Try Google App Inventor by IYagami · 2010-10-19 10:02 · Score: 4, Informative

> The real issue is a lack of a "Interface builer" so we can build beautiful apps with no extra effort.
> Combine a really good "interface builder", "default layout settings" or whatever it might be with
> Android's customization and we got a clear winner in the UI and UX space.
Try Google App Inventor, an official tool from Google itself
http://appinventor.googlelabs.com/about/
1. Re:Try Google App Inventor by TooMuchToDo · 2010-10-19 14:01 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  As someone who just started using App Inventor, it's AWESOME. For someone who doesn't have time to learn how to code Android deep down, it works wonders.
2. Re:Try Google App Inventor by Superken7 · 2010-10-19 20:20 · Score: 1
  
  Yep, already did.
  I think appinventor is great, but i dont like the ui semi-wysiwyg part at all.
  I find it easier to just code the xml than to use appinventor to produce a really nice ui (if thats even possible with the tool, it didnt work well for me)
3. Re:Try Google App Inventor by Belial6 · 2010-10-20 06:09 · Score: 1
  
  I tried that a couple of months ago, and still don't have access. Anyone know how long it takes to actually get access to it?
This irks me by stimpleton · 2010-10-19 10:14 · Score: 4, Interesting

I have a Samsung Galaxy S (Epic, Fascinate in some markets) which it a top of the range phone. It has broken GPS (like most every other Galaxy S owner) and no official Samsung Android Froyo 2.2 update is forthcoming, and 3.0 is leaking?

I feel aggrieved to be honest. I suspect this isnt a software problem and it may be hardware now.

I was visiting another town the other day, and collegues from another org, were giving me gip as they all had IPhones and merrily pointed out locations, as mine couldnt get a lock at all. "Well, you have your Live Wallpaper. I guess thats something."

If you like a bit of corporate show boating I would advise against a Samsung Galaxy S.

--

In post Patriot Act America, the library books scan you.
1. Re:This irks me by Nadaka · 2010-10-19 10:34 · Score: 1
  
  Whats broken about your GPS?
  My Epics GPS seems to work fine most of the time, but with all the military bases around here any GPS/cellular device will go out of service in some parts of town.
2. Re:This irks me by imgod2u · 2010-10-19 10:45 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  The problem is Samsung in this case. Most if not all HTC and Motorola high-end phones have 2.2 already and have no GPS issues.
  I agree with a lot of the Android criticism but those issues you listed are specific to Samsung.
3. Re:This irks me by stimpleton · 2010-10-19 10:51 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Galaxy S GPS-Gate: http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/17/samsung-galaxy-s-gps-gate-two-problems-not-one-and-what-to-do/
  
  Wikipedia entry(under Issues): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_i9000_Galaxy_S
  
  YouTube(dozens, if not hundreds of videos): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmIx6SR9lXo
  
  The EPIC issue: http://www.gadgetvenue.com/galaxy-gps-problems-fixed-samsung-epic-4g-08190515/
  
  I could paste links till my 6gb ram is full but just google "Galaxy S GPS problems"
  
  Oh yes, plenty of "A fix in september" rumors" but the originator was from a samsung forum post on Samsung India website. No official statement to date.
  
  --
  
  In post Patriot Act America, the library books scan you.
4. Re:This irks me by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-19 11:26 · Score: 0
  
  I have a Galaxy S and the GPS is flawless, and Google Navigation has totally replaced my Garmin for daily duty. Whenever I hear about broken GPS on a SGS I have to wonder if user error is at fault - like, aren't the idiots complaining all the same bunch who are flashing Norwegian firmware on a Canadian phone?
5. Re:This irks me by hey! · 2010-10-19 11:59 · Score: 1
  
  Well, that's the downside of "open". Sometimes a hardware manufacturer delivers dud. The upside is that you can change handsets without any fuss.
  For the record, my Motorola Droid's GPS works perfectly. If your problems *are* a software problem, it's still a Samsung issue.
  
  --
  Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
6. Re:This irks me by mrawhimskell · 2010-10-19 13:07 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  hmm. keyword:"most of the time" - I for one wouldn't like something like my brakes to work "most of the time" Just thought i'd chip that in. while i'm a huge fan of android. I think we have to grow up from the geeky mentality and deliver solutions that are excellent, stable and consistent. People want stuff that works. period.
7. Re:This irks me by phorm · 2010-10-19 14:03 · Score: 1
  
  2.2 has been out for awhile. If your phone isn't firmware-locked, then you could probably update to 2.2 yourself, and there's probably an image online to do so.
  If like me (a sad Milestone owner), your phone is locked (motorola SUCKS), then you'll have to wait for your phones creator - in your case Samsung - to provide the update. Google working on 3.0 has nothing to do with Samsung, Motorola, or others being dicks about not releasing the updated 2.2, and a lot more with them not caring much about existing handsets as the release their new models...
8. Re:This irks me by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-19 16:48 · Score: 0
  
  I just updated my Galaxy S to Froyo last week. Appears to have fixed the GPS issues as well.
9. Re:This irks me by jeffrey.endres · 2010-10-19 17:34 · Score: 1
  
  Flashing Norwegians? Pics or it didn't happen.
10. Re:This irks me by wrook · 2010-10-19 19:48 · Score: 1
  
  The Froyo 2.2 update has already been released and includes a GPS fix according to http://androidcommunity.com/samsung-galaxy-s-froyo-update-released-20101015/
  It may take some time to get to you.
11. Re:This irks me by fisuk · 2010-10-19 20:48 · Score: 1
  
  I updated my Galaxy S to 2.2 few days ago with Kies, but it actually made things worse. My GPS worked just fine on 2.1, never had any of the problems people have been complaining about. After the update my GPS is completely useless.
12. Re:This irks me by L4t3r4lu5 · 2010-10-19 21:30 · Score: 1
  
  After sales support from Samsung's mobile division has a reputation for being lackluster. Once you've bought it, it's yours and they don't give half a monkey's, let alone a full one.
  
  With Samsung mobile phones, it's very much Caveat Emptor. I'm waiting for the release of the Desire HD before I upgrade. At least then I know there's a huge crowd at xda-developers who can assist with any issues I have, if HTC decide to turn Samsung on me.
  
  --
  Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
13. Re:This irks me by L4t3r4lu5 · 2010-10-19 21:41 · Score: 1
  
  If it's an HTC Android phone, it has 2.2 in at least an unofficial capacity at XDA Developers. Hell, some Windows Mobile phones have it too (I run 2.1 on my Touch Diamond 2 / Fuze / Topaz ).
  
  --
  Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
14. Re:This irks me by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-20 01:48 · Score: 0
  
  I wouldn't complain too much, try Sony! I have the Xperia which is still stuck on 1.6!!!
15. Re:This irks me by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-20 03:02 · Score: 0
  
  Exactly, welcome to owning a Samsung device. The Galaxy phones look nice but lack of support after the sale is why I went with HTC and the Evo 4G.
  This having been said, the aftermarket developers (XDA) will probably port Froyo to the Galaxy phones before Samsung makes it available (if they make it available).
16. Re:This irks me by Nadaka · 2010-10-20 03:10 · Score: 1
  
  When I say most of the time, I mean when I am not near Eglin AFB, Tyndal AFB or the Navy seal training facility where every civilian gps stops working.
  My tom tom gps looses signal in other locations at least 5 times more often than the gps in my Epic.
17. Re:This irks me by Zebedeu · 2010-10-20 04:05 · Score: 1
  
  Well, consider it an expensive lesson learned: never buy a Samsung phone.
  I learned the same lesson shortly after buying the original Samsung Galaxy. We got our update to 1.6 after 2.0 was out, and even then the software was riddled with bugs.
  Fortunately, the open source community jumped in to fix the broken stuff, and now we have a functional 1.6 and a semi-functional (getting better by the day) 2.2 (for those interested: search for Galaxo or GAOSP).
  Browse the market someday, and notice how many apps' descriptions say that they are having problems with some Samsung device or other. Samsung is fond of using quirky hardware and software configurations, and then -surprise- things break.
  It's too bad, too, because they have some of the best hardware around.
  Still, I'm going with HTC for my next buy, and I don't think I'll ever buy a Samsung smartphone again in my life.
18. Re:This irks me by wulfhere · 2010-10-20 05:08 · Score: 1
  
  FYI, I have the Vibrant (T-Mobile variant), and received an OTA update last week. It resolved my GPS issues, and I'm pretty happy with the phone. I just saw a post yesterday that the Galaxy-S phones are rolling out 2.2 (Froyo) in the Scandanavian region now, with updates for the rest of the world coming. Just hang in there...
  
  --
  -- Sent from a computer.
19. Re:This irks me by mrawhimskell · 2010-10-20 08:18 · Score: 1
  
  I stand corrected then. It's good to have a balance of opinions. cheers.
20. Re:This irks me by Nadaka · 2010-10-20 10:24 · Score: 1
  
  You know, it could be a hardware problem and I just happened to get lucky.
21. Re:This irks me by stimpleton · 2010-10-20 19:17 · Score: 1
  
  Thanks. I am hanging in there. Still a nice phone. Could be soon thenn eh?
  
  --
  
  In post Patriot Act America, the library books scan you.
Blurb is (potentially) wrong by Daetrin · 2010-10-19 10:49 · Score: 1

A lot of details about _Gingerbread_ are beginning to leak. One of the things that is not confirmed, about which there has not even been a substantive leak, is that it will be version 3.0. A lot of people are assuming that, but it hasn't been confirmed and some people think that Gingerbread will actually be 2.5 and Honeycomb will be 3.0.

--
This Space Intentionally Left Blank
OpenGL consistency by Terazilla · 2010-10-19 11:22 · Score: 1

All I can say is I really hope they shore up their OpenGL support in 3.0. Creating OpenGL apps with wide handset support for Android is a painful experience, with driver bugs and inconsistency all over the place -- even things as simple as mipmapping are touch and go with some handsets. If they ever want their games to seriously compete with iPhone games, they need to get some real consistency between manufacturers. A benchmark style scene that exercises every feature and has expected results defined could go a long way here, assuming they have some way to get the handset manufacturers to actually test with it.
It's an option by Namarrgon · 2010-10-19 12:15 · Score: 4, Informative

Android has an All/Some/None setting to turn off UI animations, in Settings/Display/Animation, so once again it gives people the choice.
It's been there since 1.6 at least.

--
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
Try before buy by tepples · 2010-10-19 12:17 · Score: 0

Maemo already does SIP calls and video chat.
In the home country of Slashdot, the advantage of Android over Maemo is that Android is available to try in stores. In May, I walked into three different stores; none of them had a Nokia N900 for me to try.
1. Re:Try before buy by Anonymous Coward · 2010-10-19 13:16 · Score: 0
  
  Get thine ass over to talk.maemo.org, register a username (sufficiently different from your other online IDs), and post your location, asking if there's any N900 owners in town who would care to meet you someplace and let you have a spin with their N900. Yeah, it might cost you the price of lunch, but IMO not that big a deal. It's a great community, and I'm sure you'll find someone...
2. Re:Try before buy by Flushdot+Is+Bad · 2010-10-20 02:18 · Score: 0
  
  yeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, no
Galaxy S GPS fix released 10-13 by sys_mast · 2010-10-19 13:35 · Score: 1

I can't confirm if this really is a fix, but it claims to be. That Samsung has release a firmware update that fixes the GPS issue. Per the link the update is being pushed over the next few weeks, posted 6 days ago, so it's not been weeks yet.\
http://ars.samsung.com/customer/usa/jsp/faqs/faqs_view_us.jsp?SITE_ID=22&PG_ID=2&PROD_SUB_ID=557&PROD_ID=558&AT_ID=339171

--
Those who can, do.
1. Re:Galaxy S GPS fix released 10-13 by sys_mast · 2010-10-19 14:17 · Score: 1
  
  I guess I'll kill the rating on my post now...looks like this is just an FYI on the update that was over the air about a month ago...nothing to see here move along. (unless you need the update over PC then it's good directions to manually install)
  
  --
  Those who can, do.
But its fragmented! by ic3p1ck · 2010-10-19 15:28 · Score: 1

I hope they're including a defragmenter in 3.0... ;)
DONT FIX. THE. FUCKING. DATEPICKER.. by mjwx · 2010-10-19 19:57 · Score: 3, Insightful

+/- keys are a lot better then pull down menus and dials will get ridiculously annoying with 30 days in a month, 24 hours a day and 60 minutes in an hour.

+/- is very scalable, if I want the count to go faster I just hold the button down, moving your thumb around in a circle is a very unnatural motion even for someone who's been playing video-games for 25 years. The wheel interface needs to die.

Further more, if the +/- arent up to the task, I'll just type in the fucking date/time.

If Google want to improve it, I'd suggest adding a few buttons for common usages or perhaps even a dial-pad (12 key interchangeable between 0-9 and months). On 800x400 screens, this should be easily doable.

--
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
1. Re:DONT FIX. THE. FUCKING. DATEPICKER.. by MrCrassic · 2010-10-21 16:53 · Score: 1
  
  I can see that, but how about they fix the audio? The 2.2 release deployed to my Nexus One had shitty, shitty sound while streaming because they used a codec that wasn't ready. There isn't a universal volume control, nor is there an officially supported equalizer. Sound still completely stops when a notification comes in instead of dimming down like the iPhone does. Worse, sounds will play on top of each other if multiple resources are streaming (iOS will turn off a stream to allow another). Of course, the big one is that I'd be lucky to get more than 10 hours of listening time on my N1 before it dies; I had it die in 5 with everything off! I love my N1 and I love using Android, but its weaknesses with the sound (which aren't that minor) make me miss my iPhone sometimes. On top of that, there really isn't a good keyboard for Android...