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Sony Gets Nasty With PSBreak Buyers
YokimaSun writes "The war between hackers and Sony over the PlayStation 3 has now taken an even more sinister turn, with Sony going after not just shops but actual buyers of the PSBreak dongle, threatening them with fines of many thousands of Euros and forcing them to sign cease-and-desist letters. It seems Sony will use any means necessary to thwart both homebrew and piracy on the PS3."
"Sony is now requesting every buyer to transfer the rights to request the package back from customs over to Sony Computer Entertainment and to agree on the destruction of the device." Only happening in Germany, and likely has to do with lenient laws there that would allow it.
I am scientifically inaccurate.
A PS3, I mean.
It's not really a principled stand, but it could become one.
I don't believe in time. It's a grand conspiracy designed to sell watches.
dongle or wii?
Why oh why is it so difficult for companies to allow the end user to use their devices to the fullest extent possible? There were multiple stories today on this subject alone. Makes me wonder why bother? Sure a few people might steal the games, BUT HOW ABOUT THIS: why not allow for home brew, but prevent media copying? I mean that's why Sony doesn't them doing this, correct? If the music industry is any indication, the companies that don't adapt to the way the world is moving are the companies that seem to "lose all the money" so to say.
I'm selling - cheap - kits for creative ways to eliminate lawyers (and best selling kit so far is all chainsaw + jason mask)
It's only me who have the impression that lawyers are going crazy? What most lack happen, someone wanting to sue humanity to breathe without a contract for this?
Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
I have a good idea how to boost sales, let's sue all customers in advance and also anyone who doesn't buy our stuff, they surely need it, so their refusal to buy it is proof enough they pirated it at some point!
Are Sony seriously going to sue people for not handing over their legal property to Sony?
What is it with this company? Just how far up their own arses can they go?
How do they expect this to work?
Sure you can sue if they use trademarked names like "Sony" or "PS3", but a dongle with a name like "Freedom" and containing no code or hardware copyrighted by Sony cannot be stopped.
Yes, it is a device to circumvent copy protection but far from all European countries have laws banning such devices, and once they're in a European country the device can be moved freely to other countries.
I would buy such a device, mostly just to spite Sony and their megalomania.
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) --
This rash of crazy lawyer stories leads me to believe we are in a law suit Bubble. Eventually garbage law suits, Cease and Desists, threats, extra will come to an end bursting the bubble lawyers have grown so accustom to.
Oooh, so that means that Sony are implicitly agreeing that I have a right to that device, because they require that I agree to surrender that right?
If Sony didn't plan for this in the beginning, then I understand why they have resorted to this as a last gasp. That means there was a major hole in their business plan.
Sony once held the mindshare Apple has now. For me, so many Sony items have had problems, that they are off my radar.
The world moves on and a major player must move ahead of it, or at least with it or it dies. I just don't get the concept of a company suing the retail consumers of its hardware.
Why oh why is it so difficult for companies to allow the end user to use their devices to the fullest extent possible?
So that they can squeeze more money out of developers. If homebrew were easy, or even as easy as it is on iPod touch, iPhone, and iPad, major labels would develop and sell their games through the homebrew path to market to cut overhead.
HOW ABOUT THIS: why not allow for home brew, but prevent media copying?
Allowing homebrew will inevitably result in media copying. This could be through cloning of patented games (such as Dance Dance Revolution), through cloning of games on whose rules the developer makes a flimsy copyright claim (such as Tetris), or through infringing ROM images that run on homebrew emulators.
Why are people doing this?
I Mean..
1) Buy PS3
2) Buy dongle
3) Get sued
4) ???
5) PROFIT! (for sony)
I think it's obvious that the problem is in step 1.
It's only me who have the impression that lawyers are going crazy?
Behind every sleazy lawyer is a sleazier client. Blame Sony, and vote with your money. That's one reason why I have a Philips TV, stereo, and DVD recorder in the room where I'm typing this.
I don't own a PS3 nor any other Sony product, but now I want to hop over the German border and openly buy this dongle there. Would be fun to be sued, since there would be no connection between me and Sony except for the dongle. I have some very good lawyers with a good sense of humour among my friends (yes, such guys & gals do exist) who might be interested to pull this.
Sure you can sue if they use trademarked names like "Sony" or "PS3", but a dongle with a name like "Freedom"
And in countries with sane trademark law, nominative use to specify compatible products made by other companies is not an infringement: "FREEDOM service tool by TropeCo, for use with PLAYSTATION 3 console by Sony".
and containing no code or hardware copyrighted by Sony
Sony can claim non-literal copying. But even in the U.S., whose Digital Millennium Copyright Act is widely thought on Slashdot to be stricter than its European counterparts, copying small pieces of code solely for interoperability has been shown not to infringe. Sega v. Accolade; Lexmark v. Static Control Components.
What Sony should do is open up a sandbox environment in the PS3 in which homebrew developers can run their own software without problems.
It did, until the slim PS3 came out and Sony left out the Other OS drivers to cut cost. Then the first hints of cracks came out with the stated goal of reenabling Other OS on the slim PS3, and Sony pushed out PS3 system software 3.21 to shut them down on the original PS3. Then the cat and mouse game started in earnest.
I don't see why piracy and homebrew are always treated as one by these console developers.
I explained the rationale against homebrew in another comment.
I don't own a PS3 nor any other Sony product
I find that highly unlikely. Search your CD collection for Columbia Records or Epic Records, then search your VHS and/or DVD collection for Columbia Pictures or TriStar Pictures.
Really? After so many years of producing shit that they can't even sell TV's (something Sony used to be famous for making the best) under their own name anymore, why do people still buy ANYTHING Sony?
The premise of threatening OWNERS of a piece of hardware for doing with that hardware whatever they please, which they have the absolute right to do (including burning it or running over it with the car) is ridiculous. And if someone is finally going to be stupid enough to sue a customer over violating a shrinkwrap, unilateral, "we reserve the right to change anything at any time at our SOLE discretion" EULA, please, PLEASE for the love of God let it be a company as stupid, corrupt and intellectually bankrupt as Sony.
Threatening end users who make modifications to the console that they PURCHASED is as ridiculous as Ford suing me for buying one of their cars then changing the rims so I can put a different size of tire on them...
Corporatism != Free Market
When Sony removed the "Other OS" option from the PS3 they locked people out of a legitimate and relatively safe homebrew environment. Somewhere that people could play with the device without voiding their warranty. It was an option that really "sold" the device to many people who now own one.
While someone would have eventually jail-broken the device, I doubt it would be as widely used as these dongles are; if Sony had (a) left the "Other OS" option in, and (b) possibly added said-option to the "slim" PS3 consoles. The way to combat people jail-braking a device is to give them a safe way to homebrew without the possibility of bricking their consoles or voiding the warranty.
I bought a PS3 to run linux and play around with cell programming...
Sony broke my ps3 by updating the firmware to 3.30, so i bought a dongle which i intend to use to repair the otherwise broken system:
http://www.ps3hax.net/2010/10/asbestos-running-linux-as-gameos/
All i'm doing, is fixing advertised functionality which was present in the ps3 when i bought it.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
You make it a sony!
why do people still buy ANYTHING Sony?
Sony owns RCA Records, the record label that published a song by Rick Astley. Sony also makes movies, including the Spider-Man movies. (And before you object that these are separate divisions, the division that makes TV sets is likewise separate from the Computer Entertainment division that makes PlayStation products.)
what everyone seems to be forgetting is that there is a multiplayer component to consider.
So you've connected four SIXAXIS or Dual Shock 3 controllers to your PS3, and you've invited friends over. If you turn on a cheat that boosts all players, then everyone cheats with you. (Compare the built-in cheats in Goldeneye 007 for Nintendo 64.) If you turn on a cheat that helps you over the other players, you get punched in the face.
I don't know if any of these hacks can or are being used in any online components of any games
Would it be cheating to add a custom map to all players' machines and then play on that map?
PS3break.com has a splash telling you not to buy the fake PS3break.
It's mine, I bought it, Now go fuck yourself assholes! Who the fuck do they think they are? To fuck with stuff you bought legally? Come to my house plaaaeeze. Truspassers wull be shot!
Use to think that Microsoft was the evil company and I'd never buy a 360. Glad I didn't buy either the 360 or the PS3. Though if I was a hardcore gamer, I'd have to say that this makes the 360 look a heck of a lot more enticing than the PS3. Congratulations Sony, you managed to find a way to kill off the PS3 faster than any would-be hacker
Will sony sue the air force over there use of ps3 for non gameing / PS3 media use?
Will sony try to say you are braking the EULA by not installing the update that removers other os?
What exactly is wrong about any of this?
Sony: 90% of the people who buy this will copy games. You bought one, so you must copy games. We will fine you and take the dongle from you without a trial. If you want to fight it, that will cost at least $10,000 in legal fees.
Car Analogy -
Police: 90% of the people who drive down this street buy drugs, you drove down this street, so you must have bought drugs, we will fine you and take your car without a trial. If you want to fight it, that will cost at least $10,000 in legal fees.
See the problem?
What EXACTLY should they have done?
Design an open system without copy protection, raised the price of the console slightly and drop the price of the games to $20.
In my humble experience, 3 out of 3 pieces of Sony kit I bought were pieces of shit and ended up in a landfill. I have bought other pices of junk kit from other manufacturers too, but they did not have the overblown price and brand name and not 3 from the same brand were bad either. So I don't buy Sony kit anymore. Nuff sed.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
Buying one of these devices is stupid when there are ways to accomplish exactly the same thing from any number of devices that Sony can't ban, restrict or block including at least one model of calculator.
I'm going to buy a dongle now! And I don't own a PS3. Eat that Sony!
I'm just "this guy", you know?
I have a PS-ONE, you insensitive clods!
There were no jailbrakes until shortly after they pulled "Other OS"
So, instead of restore that feature and see how it effects the motivations of jailbrakers, they spend millions on lawsuits.
This is EU, people are not afraid of these stupid actions in here. Nobody goes bankrupt for having to go to trial to defend themselves in here. So if they want to sue, let them sue. In the end most of the courts in here will force Sony to pay the court and representation fees to the persons they are suing when they lose.
I only bought a PS3 so that I would not have to run games on Windows. There have been many issues, including three returns for repair of defective components, two just out of warranty. The operating system is limited and buggy. The browser sucks beyond belief. Sony has been horrible to deal with at every step. PS3 hardware now falls well behind budget PC hardware. After this PS3 it is back to PC gaming for me, and exclusively on Linux. By the time this PS3 is ready for the scrapheap there will be plenty of A list titles available on Linux, and plenty of mature free and open projects.
Byebye in advance, Sony.
Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
Sharpie markers can be used to "enable piracy".
Should we ban Sharpies? Sony has been freaking out over ridiculous stuff for years, and it's high time they get punched in the mouth for it (figuratively speaking, of course).
As for "OtherOS" enabling piracy, it wasn't until after it was removed that the various hacker groups really started trying to crack the PS3.
I blame Sony for everything they have done, whether it was "in reaction to those hackers", or just their own dim-witted execs trying to come up with ways to steal more money from their customers.
When are consumers going to learn? Sony has a long track record of screwing their customers... When Amazon ganked books from the Kindle, there was a public outcry. When Blizzard starts banning people from single-player mode for using cheats in single-player mode, there is an outcry. When Sony fucks their customer base over and over again, some stupid Sony apologist comes out and says "What did you expect?" I agree; What did we expect? Sony has proven over and over again that they cannot be trusted, that they cannot be ethical, and that they do not deserve our money.
And yet morons like you continue to hand it to them. I hope you like how far they're bending you over, and I hope you like the treatment you receive for trying to use one of their products (regardless of whether it's the "intended use").
(Side note: The warranty disclaims that there even is an "intended use".)
For myself, I just refuse to knowingly give them any money. I don't buy DVD movies anymore, in case Sony has their fingers in the producing company. I don't buy CD audio anymore, because I don't want to wonder if I'm going to be infected by the "DRM" on the disk. I don't buy Sony electronics products, because I can't trust them to perform as advertised - and even if they do what they're supposed to today, Sony has proven that their products may not operate that way tomorrow.
I would cheerfully watch Sony go down in flames. I hope their executives starve.
Disclaimer: I am not advocating violence against anyone, merely enraged that Sony still exists, after all the legal shenanigans they have pulled. I might actually be persuaded to knowingly piss on a Sony executive, were he or she actually and visibly on fire.
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported License.
After Sony put out their rootkit, I vowed never to buy from them again. And I have not.
Design an open system without copy protection, raised the price of the console slightly and drop the price of the games to $20.
Wait....what? Are you serious? So developers are no longer allowed to recoup the millions of $ they are spending developing games? Either the company that made it, the company that published it, or the company that sold it are going to make no money if you try and sell the game for that cheap, or at least not enough to justify it.
Ever since that rootkit crap Sony pulled some years ago I will not buy any Sony products. Here's yet another example of essentially illegal activity on their part. We have options to buy non-Sony products for most of the electronics and optical computer drives we use so join the boycott.
"Hell, one lady I was dating said I didn't act like a boyfriend, I guess I should have slapped her around some, but I don't need that kind of relationship."
Allow me to interpret. What she really was saying was, "You're bad at sex, and not attentive enough to my moods to make me forgive you for it." Mystery solved.
Don't you think Sony has seen what happens to a platform when it gets broken open like happened on the PSP?
Like more people buying PSPs than would have otherwise?
They've found that if you let people have access to a moderate level of "Home Brew" creation ability, some assholes will use that ability to enable massive piracy, just because they can.
If you don't let people have access to a moderate level of home brew creation ability, some assholes will enable massive piracy just because they can. Since piracy is going to happen either way, might as well let people use the devices they own the way they choose.
Live with it.
Exactly what Sony should be doing.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
from about 10 years ago? It was a personal MiniDisk recorder with a USB interface to allow you to transfer mp3 files from your computer to minidisk? I had bought one and found that it implemented a particularly mindless form of DRM, and was sloooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwww as well. Needless to say, it went back and I got a Sharp device instead (no USB, but I'd gone off the idea completely by then!).
What I mean to say is that I stopped buying Sony then; the rootkits and anti-consumer attitude of the company just makes it easier and easier to say NO.
Developers are not compelled to invest in creating any specific game, and they are not entitled to profit if they choose to. I am however entitled, if not by law by any reasonable sense of justice, to full and complete control over my own property. My right to actual property that I own is not trumped by their desire to profit. If that means no more mega million dollar blockbuster games, that's OK. Securing a little extra profit for some developers today is not worth destroying the meaning of the property rights we've enjoyed for centuries.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
See http://www.lik-sang.com/. Sony lied about the the products they were importing and sued them in multipul courts at the same time to stop them from selling a product (The PSP before Sony started selling it in Europe) that they really didn't have a legal right to stop, so this is old hat to Sony. Thats right, I'm still bitter 4 years later as no site has come along that is half as good for imports then Lik-Sang was. Screw Sony.
http://fathertom.net/hardwii - My Wii Hardware Centric Website
Sony's kneejerk reaction seems quite dramatic in contrast to the reaction (or lack thereof) by nintendo to homebrew on the Wii:
The Twilight Hack was blocked by them in firmware 4.0+, but they actually ADDED the ability to install the Homebrew Channel (which can run various backup launchers that run gamecube and wii backups. There is also the Wad Installer that can install Wiiware games.) without having to own a copy of Twilight Princess (Bannerbomb). Nintendo Wii piracy and homebrew has been rampant for years, and they seem to have turned a blind eye on it. (The bannerbomb exploit has been available since May 2009, and still works on the latest firmware. (despite multiple firmware updates from nintendo since the initial release) Wiibrew, Hackmii and Bannerbomb websites are still online.)
Design an open system without copy protection, raised the price of the console slightly and drop the price of the games to $20.
You know, if there actually was a demand for this in the marketplace, and a way to do what you describe profitably, someone would have done so by now.
Then I compare FreeCiv to Civilization V and know why not.
This is what you idiots get for wasting your money on game consoles, then wasting even more money and valuable time fucking around with them. Spend that money on a gym membership, some decent clothes, and a social life instead.
Design an open system without copy protection, raised the price of the console slightly [...]
Slightly?!? You ARE aware that the only reason consoles are as cheap as they are is because the rest of the cost they eat (Wii excluded) is effectively subsidized by developers paying licensing fees, right? And that developers wouldn't pay said licensing fees if the parent company didn't give any assurance of protecting their IP, which would remove the discounted nature of the console, right? And that without said deep cost reduction, these consoles wouldn't be any cheaper than equivalent PC hardware, which, in turn, already IS an open system insofar as game development is concerned? And can already be hooked up to a large-screen TV (HDMI outputs exist for computers now) and can have multiple controller inputs via USB or BlueTooth if you want?
I'm not saying I wouldn't want an open-system console to mess with. I'm saying we already have one, and it's called your computer.
Thanks Sony! I didn't know about this USB stick until now. I was just searching for something like this yesterday. Epic fail
You know, if there actually was a demand for this in the marketplace, and a way to do what you describe profitably, someone would have done so by now.
Of course there's a demand, the problem up until about 2009 was distribution. That's slowly changing for the PC market, but it's much more difficult for the console market. You want to sell at GameStop or WalMart, you have to deal with a major player. So, your title shows up with EA or someone similar.
Why do you think Apple wants to totally control ipod/pad/phone distibution?
Then I compare FreeCiv to Civilization V and know why not.
Yes, because an open market without restrictions means a small project like FreeCiv and not something like World of Goo. Which sells for $20 and did damn well.
You ARE aware that the only reason consoles are as cheap as they are is because the rest of the cost they eat (Wii excluded) is effectively subsidized by developers paying licensing fees, right?
Subsidization is a mistake. I think having a console with a low entry point to development would bring in money as well.
I'm saying we already have one, and it's called your computer.
The 12 year old who wants to play xbox games doesn't want a computer. That would require thought.
The console has two advantages, the platform doesn't change for the life of the console and the interface is consistent.
I'm guessing that you don't buy movies or cd's anymore... but you probably can't live without them completely... so it's likely this is your 'reason' for downloading them off of bittorrent. Stick it to the man, I don't support your ways!! Oh, new Thundercats episode!! Awesome... steal....
Subsidization is a mistake. I think having a console with a low entry point to development would bring in money as well.
I think that was tried with things like the many iterations of the GP32X (or whatever it was called), and that never got out of really really niche use. Sure, it has its passionately devoted fanbase, but outside of that, nothing much to speak of. No audience, no money to be had, nobody wants to make stuff for it. Afraid that path's been traveled.
The 12 year old who wants to play xbox games doesn't want a computer. That would require thought.
Try playing online PC games where you can communicate with the other players sometime. You will find there is absolutely no shortage of 12-year-old brats who wish to show off both their desire and ability to avoid as much cerebral activity as possible on that platform.
The console has two advantages, the platform doesn't change for the life of the console and the interface is consistent.
I'll grant you the consistent interface part, as will anyone who has had to put up with crappy PC ports of console games, but the "platform doesn't change" part is just as much a liability as it is an advantage. "You always know what you're coding for" is one side of the argument, and "you CAN'T improve the hardware without a major revision" is another.
...are getting far fetched. You can legally hack on your apple products, but if you do the same *exact* thing on a ps3 you get sent to court? This law either needs to get pulled or fixed to say, you can "Jailbreak" any hardware device you can buy regardless of EULA/TOS/Whatever. Telling me how to use something in my house though doesn't get me to buy your product personally. Xbox 360 banned around 1 million 360's over christmas and still get hacked. They don't bring the users to court, and they have a pretty huge user base. Instead of spending all R&D time on dropping features and setting up ways to sue people, they let you hack your system, and if you decide to get caught in the ban wave, you get your box banned (though not your live account). You buy a new box and start it over again, so a huge base buys new consoles every so often. I personally did "mod" my old xbox1 just to run gentoox (gentoox.shallax.com) and xbmc on it, and I bought about 45 games for it to play on the side for around 50 a piece on it. Didn't pirate one game. But the pirates ruin it for the rest of the homebrewers. I'm almost pretty sure that if otheros was patched to stop the exploit that was being worked on instead of ripped out, all those people wouldn't be mad enough to try to hack their machines to perhaps find a way to downgrade their firmware or find a way to run linux without restrictions. I personally gave up on the console scenes though. I don't like to affiliate with people that are only out to steal software when all I want to do is mess around with homebrew or something. And since I picked up a pretty decent laptop, I can do all the hacking on source I want in real linux and not have to be accused by some company of being a thief or worry about the sony ninja's trying to sue.
> Design an open system without copy protection, raised the price of the console slightly and drop the price of the games to $20.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3#Sales_and_production_costs and understand the idiocy of Sony's business model for the PS3. There was no way they could have raised the price "slightly".
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3#Sales_and_production_costs and understand the idiocy of Sony's business model for the PS3. There was no way they could have raised the price "slightly".
Yes, there's no way Sony could have done that with the design of the PS3. I didn't say 'design the PS3' I said 'design an open system'.
The Wii doesn't follow the Sony model, is very successful and nets Nintendo a profit on every unit sold.
> on every unit sold
and even more if you include all of the specialty controllers. A much better business model until matter duplicators come around. :-)