Sony Gets Nasty With PSBreak Buyers

YokimaSun writes "The war between hackers and Sony over the PlayStation 3 has now taken an even more sinister turn, with Sony going after not just shops but actual buyers of the PSBreak dongle, threatening them with fines of many thousands of Euros and forcing them to sign cease-and-desist letters. It seems Sony will use any means necessary to thwart both homebrew and piracy on the PS3."

Comments

Missing from the summary

[millennial]

"Sony is now requesting every buyer to transfer the rights to request the package back from customs over to Sony Computer Entertainment and to agree on the destruction of the device." Only happening in Germany, and likely has to do with lenient laws there that would allow it.

Re:Missing from the summary

[fnj]

Sign zzzze paperzzzz or elttttttzzzz.

Re:Missing from the summary

[sakdoctor]

Ooo, forbidden hardware. I sort of want one now.

Re:Missing from the summary

[MikePikeFL]

Me too! I don't even own a PS3 and I want to buy one... just to see what Sony would do.

What grounds could they have against me if I own a bypass device without owning the device for which to bypass? :-)

But in the end, I'm too lazy, and cheap. *sigh*

Re:Missing from the summary

[stephanruby]

The Germans wanting to destroy your "freedom". That's not good PR. Also, that doesn't sound like Germany is being "lenient" with its laws here. This request implies that all those dongles were stopped (or are going to be stopped) at the border by custom officials. Also, I would like to know how they got the names and addresses of the people who ordered those dongles (did the custom officials give it to Sony)? It sounds like there was a serious breach of privacy as well.

Re:Missing from the summary

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, I want to order the stick with the PS3 Break label on it even though I don't own a PS3 nor do I intend to buy own. I just think it would be cool to use. Imagine the looks when you stop by a computer lab, or computer store with that thing. Toll! (translate it from German yourself)

Makes you wonder if you labelled a soft sided lunch box "Lock Picking Tools" could you get in trouble?

Then again, I guess if I wrapped a can of beans with jalapeno peppers with duct tape and stuck a label saying "High Explosive" on it, I'd just be asking for trouble.

Re:Missing from the summary

[index0]

Only happening in Germany? Out of sight, out of mind, right?

Re:Missing from the summary

[AdamWeeden]

At first they came for the Germans, and I said nothing because...it's the Germans. Who cares? ;)

Re:Missing from the summary

[KDR_11k]

AFAIK customs can check back with manufacturers to make sure the imported goods aren't counterfeit. I guess they expanded that to cover EUCD violating devices.

Re:Missing from the summary

[CarbonShell]

Isn't it normal in any country that products shipped from abroad first go through customs?

Also just because it is in Germany does not mean anything. Basically it is just a cease and desist order. You can do that anywhere.
Just a bunch of bullying that is semi-legal in Germany. If someone does not sing Sony has to take them to court and that might blow up in their face.
So they try to strong-arm the people.

Re:Missing from the summary

[RockDoctor]

and I said nothing because...it's the Germans. Who cares? ;)

The Sudetenlanders?

Well, I'm not buying one

[guyminuslife]

A PS3, I mean.

It's not really a principled stand, but it could become one.

Re:Well, I'm not buying one

[somersault]

I'm unsure how to feel about this. I think Sony are going about it the wrong way. If they have security holes in the system they should patch them up, and if the holes are in the hardware then I suppose they should just make sure to fix them up in the PS4. I am however happy for them to remove as much possibility as possible that there will be people cheating on online games. That's one of the few real benefits over playing on my PS3 as opposed to PC gaming online.

Re:Well, I'm not buying one

[Anonymous Coward]

"Just making sure to fix them up in the PS4" is never going to fly. The hardware for the PS4 likely won't even remotely resemble that of the PS3, anyhow. Patching shit up to stop the cheaters is practically a non-issue at this point; from what I can tell, Sony is targeting the homebrew and pirate crowds considerably more than the cheaters. Why? Because they believe they're losing money.

Re:Well, I'm not buying one

[Eraesr]

You're right in that they're going about this the wrong way. However, I think the closed nature of the console is exactly what causes these cracks and hacks to appear. What Sony should do is open up a sandbox environment in the PS3 in which homebrew developers can run their own software without problems. I don't see why piracy and homebrew are always treated as one by these console developers. I do understand that it's probably harder to combat piracy if homebrew is allowed, but if this is taken into account when designing the system, the problem is probably much smaller. At least you take away the incentive of the homebrew communities to crack your system. That just leaves the pirates and you can continue fighting them while supporting the homebrew community.

Re:Well, I'm not buying one

[Gaygirlie]

I am actually rather tempted to buy a PS3 now and one of these dongles, and then take several pictures of me using the said dongle and send those over to Sony. Oh, and advertise the pics and the dongle on my website, too. Sony wouldn't have any legal leg to stand on if they tried to sue so I'd just get to laugh and annoy the hell out of them :]

Oh, sometimes I'm just so glad to live in Finland :]

Re:Well, I'm not buying one

[richwillal]

I've been avoiding products from Sony for years. It started with the whole CD rootkit debacle, but Sony continually makes short-sighted decisions related to how it treats its customers (in some cases, breaking the law to do so). If people stand for this kind of treatment, companies will continue it.

Re:Well, I'm not buying one

[PopeRatzo]

Well, I'm not buying one

Actually, now that there's a PSBreak, I might finally be convinced to buy my first PS3.

Re:Well, I'm not buying one

[somersault]

The USB system that they're using to do this hack probably won't be that different from the PS4's USB setup, and whether the rest is similar or not, they can still learn from past mistakes. They probably shouldn't be allowed to go after people doing hardware mods, but if it's within their legal rights to do so then I won't complain about their actions yet, though I will complain about the laws allowing them to do so..

Re:Well, I'm not buying one

[somersault]

Offtopic? Seriously? Could they have not just gone with "overrated" to at least try to hide they're just downmodding me for the sake of it?

Re:Well, I'm not buying one

[PopeRatzo]

Oh, sometimes I'm just so glad to live in Finland

Many of us envy those of you who live in First World countries.

Re:Well, I'm not buying one

[Anonymous Coward]

Is there no other place you rather be?

Re:Well, I'm not buying one

[vadim_t]

Don't reward those assholes by paying for one of their products.

If you really want to annoy them, do something to publicise the existence, and improve the distribution of things like PSBreak. Having something like it fully documented so that anybody can assemble it from components and then posted everywhere would annoy Sony quite a bit more than a couple of photos on a website.

Re:Well, I'm not buying one

[slackbheep]

I've got one with a dead DVD drive, and a friend that's offered me the corpse of another with a dead...something else, he insists it's the ASIC. Anyhow, I've not cared enough to go get a new one but now that they're doing this crap part of me wants to try and Frankenstein them together just so I have a platform to piss them off with.

Re:Well, I'm not buying one

[Pikoro]

[HOWTO] Arduino Duemilanove Playstation 3 Jailbreak - Part 1: Hardware Build

That should do it right there.

Re:Well, I'm not buying one

[loafula]

I agree with GP. Buy the PS3, but buy it used.

Re:Well, I'm not buying one

[Engeekneer]

I am actually rather tempted to buy a PS3 now and one of these dongles, and then take several pictures of me using the said dongle and send those over to Sony. Oh, and advertise the pics and the dongle on my website, too. Sony wouldn't have any legal leg to stand on if they tried to sue so I'd just get to laugh and annoy the hell out of them :]

Oh, sometimes I'm just so glad to live in Finland :]

Actually, according to the article, the letters were sent because the dongles are devices to circumvent copy protection. And with our abomination of a law, Lex Karpela, devices to circumvent strong copy protection are also banned in Finland. So they might be able to go after you on the same grounds.

That said, I think I'm done with Sony for good. It's almost a shame that I already have a PS3.

Re:Well, I'm not buying one

[stephanruby]

Fuck that. Take the money you would have used for a PS3, and buy as many dongles as you can.

Re:Well, I'm not buying one

[AmonTheMetalhead]

Obviously you never met Finnish girls

Re:Well, I'm not buying one

[Gaygirlie]

I wasn't planning to buy a dongle at all, I own a Nokia N900 which can be used as a dongle if I just install PSFreedom on it.

Re:Well, I'm not buying one

[Gaygirlie]

Actually, according to the article, the letters were sent because the dongles are devices to circumvent copy protection. And with our abomination of a law, Lex Karpela, devices to circumvent strong copy protection are also banned in Finland. So they might be able to go after you on the same grounds.

But on the other hand for example circumventing CD or DVD copy protection is perfectly fine if you have legally bought the disc due to fair use rights. I'd argue that on the same grounds I'd just be exercising my fair use rights by doing whatever I wish with my hardware.

Besides, it doesn't even require any kind of modification of the system or its software at all. You're just triggering functionality on that is already present in the system.

Re:Well, I'm not buying one

[mcgrew]

I won't buy anything from Sony, and principles have nothing to do with it. They rooted and vandalized my computer, I would be insane to trust them again. It's not a boycott, it's a matter of wanting to own what I pay for. It's a matter of not letting thieves and vandals in my house.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Re:Well, I'm not buying one

[tlhIngan]

Don't reward those assholes by paying for one of their products.

If you really want to annoy them, do something to publicise the existence, and improve the distribution of things like PSBreak. Having something like it fully documented so that anybody can assemble it from components and then posted everywhere would annoy Sony quite a bit more than a couple of photos on a website.

The PSGroove people are facing lawsuits over PSGroove, the open-source Jailbreak. Though, even that's been ported to iPhone-Linux, Android phones, Nokia phones, TI calculators, Atmel AVR dev boards )original port), etc. Porting it to anything and everything, mirroring the code, and even patching it to support backups (most of the PSGroove ports use the original code which disables Blu-Ray) would be far more effective.

Re:Well, I'm not buying one

[Anonymous Coward]

Pirated games and non-Sony produced/royalty collected ones both compete with their product, and we can't have that, can we?

Re:Well, I'm not buying one

[Anonymous Coward]

Better yet, why don't you manufacture several thousand of them and print "PS3 Circumvention Device" on one side and your home address and telephone number on the other, and then sell them at cost on ebay?

Re:Well, I'm not buying one

[couchslug]

It should. The PS3 isn't a necessity, it's a TOY. Games are toys. Attractive toys, but don't forget that.

Toys are fun, but there are many different toys so not having a particular toy shouldn't matter much.

Re:Well, I'm not buying one

[elrous0]

Because the U.S. and Finland have an extradition agreement?

Re:Well, I'm not buying one

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm still likely to buy one when the price gets a bit lower, but then I'm only interested in playing commercial games on it for now. When Sony drops all support for the PS3 however, I'll see what's left available for hacking in homebrew support.

Seriously, homebrew for a system should never start until the commercial life is gone from the system. It makes all the backlash and cat and mouse games far less likely to even occur (And makes it far far FAR harder for the company to justify bricking your no-longer-supported console at that point.)

Re:Well, I'm not buying one

[Transkaren]

For me, it is a principled stand. I refuse to purchase any Sony or Sony-family products. I also refuse to purchase anything from Target due to their poor choice in candidate to support, I refuse to eat Domino's Pizza due to the owner's support for Proposition 8, and I refuse to purchase things from companies I think are doing greater than necessary evil. I also refuse to support the music industry through primary channels: That is, I won't buy CDs or buy electronic music via iTunes. I will support Pandora, and I will support radio stations.

Re:Well, I'm not buying one

[Blakey Rat]

You're right in that they're going about this the wrong way. However, I think the closed nature of the console is exactly what causes these cracks and hacks to appear. What Sony should do is open up a sandbox environment in the PS3 in which homebrew developers can run their own software without problems. I don't see why piracy and homebrew are always treated as one by these console developers.

Xbox 360 supports homebrew officially. There's a small fee, though, $99 IIRC.

That said, the Xbox has probably been cracked anyway (I don't know for sure.)

Re:Well, I'm not buying one

[Anonymous Coward]

"Don't reward those assholes by paying for one of their products."

Go go gadget secondhand market?

Re:Well, I'm not buying one

[Engeekneer]

But on the other hand for example circumventing CD or DVD copy protection is perfectly fine if you have legally bought the disc due to fair use rights. I'd argue that on the same grounds I'd just be exercising my fair use rights by doing whatever I wish with my hardware.

Besides, it doesn't even require any kind of modification of the system or its software at all. You're just triggering functionality on that is already present in the system.

I think there was a court decision that at least CSS encryption was not considered strong. and according to wikipedia the law is not clear on when it is ok to break strong encryption.

I do agree with you that it's idiotic to ban things like this, but since the law isn't clear enough, I wouldn't wonder if Sony would slap an "infringer" with a lawsuit just in case.

Re:Well, I'm not buying one

[StikyPad]

Since they're losing money on each console sold, I don't think that qualifies as a reward. Just make sure to buy secondhand games too. Of course, they'll just chalk up the lost sales to piracy, but that's their problem.

Re:Well, I'm not buying one

[Anonymous Coward]

i have a play for you : http://www.1thcasino.com

Re:Well, I'm not buying one

[Anonymous Coward]

>>Oh, sometimes I'm just so glad to live in Finland

Since the EU is one of the ACTA Treaty members, you can continue to laugh only up to the point when the ACTA Treaty is finally ratified by the EU. A sinister part of ACTA is that future changes can be made to ACTA by the ACTA representatives, so chances are that ACTA will continue to evolve to prevent circumvention by using the "Chilling Effect" of criminal prosecution.

The ACTA Treaty (see wikipedia) dealing with intellectual property (IP) issues is nearly finalized; the last negotiated draft has now been released and no more negotiation sessions are planned. This treaty does many things, one of which is making it a criminal prosecution situation instead of a civil lawsuit. While civil lawsuits will still occur to set the level of monetary compenstion, instead of a C&D letter in the mail, it can now be either a police summons to go to the local police station or an officer knocking on your door. Your use of the dongle to either modify or circumvent Sony's IP or violate the terms of the IP agreement that came with using the PS3 means that you can be taken in by the police when Sony notifies the ACTA department in your country.

ps3

[Anonymous Coward]

dongle or wii?

Reminds me of the phone wars.

[Anonymous Coward]

Why oh why is it so difficult for companies to allow the end user to use their devices to the fullest extent possible? There were multiple stories today on this subject alone. Makes me wonder why bother? Sure a few people might steal the games, BUT HOW ABOUT THIS: why not allow for home brew, but prevent media copying? I mean that's why Sony doesn't them doing this, correct? If the music industry is any indication, the companies that don't adapt to the way the world is moving are the companies that seem to "lose all the money" so to say.

Re:Reminds me of the phone wars.

[AlecC]

Their business model is to sell the console at a loss or break-even, then make their profits from license fees on the games. If people buy consoles to convert into homebrew computers, but never buy any games, tbey make a loss. the are not particularly worried about people who buy lots of games /and/ use it for homebrew, they are worried about people who buy it for homebrew only.

Re:Reminds me of the phone wars.

[stokessd]

I'm all for using my products as I see fit, but there's a dark side to the PSBreak for me, and that's cheating on online games. I don't really care about the piracy or Sony's bottom line. But I do know back in the dark ages of online play when people got aimbots in Quake3, online play really started to suck, and I lost interest in the game really quickly. That undermining of the level playing field that makes online play fun is a bigger threat to Sony's bottom line than piracy or people doing protein folding when the console is idle.

Sheldon

Re:Reminds me of the phone wars.

[Dan Ost]

Has Sony ever confirmed that they lose money on the console and hope to get it back from games?

Re:Reminds me of the phone wars.

[AlecC]

There was a news item about two months ago of a senior figure saying that they had finally stopped losing money on the console. Logically, we can deduce that they lost money for three years, and that their margin is still probably very small. Furthermore, that saving is probably over manufacturing and distribution cost, and makes no contribution to marketing costs or recouping development. So it is reasonable to think that are at best breaking even on the console. However, they profit massively from games.

Re:Reminds me of the phone wars.

[Anonymous Coward]

Because it is a fundamentally intractable technical problem. If they allow enough system access that useful homebrew is actually possible it would be extremely difficult to prevent the unwanted software.

Kill-A-Lawyer, cheap

[TheDarkMaster]

I'm selling - cheap - kits for creative ways to eliminate lawyers (and best selling kit so far is all chainsaw + jason mask)

It's only me who have the impression that lawyers are going crazy? What most lack happen, someone wanting to sue humanity to breathe without a contract for this?

Re:Kill-A-Lawyer, cheap

[uncanny]

Crazy? Yeah, those dumb RICH bastards!

Re:Kill-A-Lawyer, cheap

[nunojsilva]

If you breath close to their console, they may claim you're using part (the air) of the lincensed (not owned!) property (the console) in a way it was not licensed for.

Re:Kill-A-Lawyer, cheap

[IBBoard]

But if you breath on it and it goes in the cooling intake then couldn't you claim that they hadn't licensed your breath to be used as cooling in their machine? See how they like that frivolous law suit!

Re:Kill-A-Lawyer, cheap

[ultranova]

It's only me who have the impression that lawyers are going crazy?

"There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do." - Terry Pratchett, Small Gods.

Re:Kill-A-Lawyer, cheap

[Anonymous Coward]

The lawyers are only doing it because someone is paying them to, just like most of the rest of us. The real enemies are the ones initiating all of this bullshit. No, I'm not a lawyer, but I am friends with a few and they are not the ravenous fiends that they're made out to be.

Re:Kill-A-Lawyer, cheap

[Anonymous Coward]

Breath: Noun
"It's so cold, I can see my breath"

Breathe: Verb
"It only hurts when I breathe"

Re:Kill-A-Lawyer, cheap

[Anonymous Coward]

No one gives a fuck. Please come back if you have something to ADD to the convo.

Re:Kill-A-Lawyer, cheap

[Anonymous Coward]

Meh ... that's probably handled in the EULA. You know, the thing you don't get to see until you've already paid for the product :D

Re:Kill-A-Lawyer, cheap

[mischi_amnesiac]

In Germany everyone of legal age can send a cease-and-desist-letter to anyone, even if the plaintiff is not even your client. You either pay the fee or you can fight it and if you go to court and you loose, you have to pay a lot more. So most people get scared, don't take a lawyer and just pay. We have a lot of well known lawyers who live on this kind of harassment.

This guy http://www.stum.de/2010/02/22/lawyer-von-gravenreuth-commits-suicide/ used to be very big in this line of work, but eventually he got caught and committed suicide.

Re:Kill-A-Lawyer, cheap

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, like OMG!

WTF is his problem! Can't peeps jst lv us aln? ... ... Get a life, and learn to spell.

Re:Kill-A-Lawyer, cheap

[Anonymous Coward]

n0 u, mi spalling & grammer si prefect!

On right

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a good idea how to boost sales, let's sue all customers in advance and also anyone who doesn't buy our stuff, they surely need it, so their refusal to buy it is proof enough they pirated it at some point!

And what if they refuse?

[Viol8]

Are Sony seriously going to sue people for not handing over their legal property to Sony?

What is it with this company? Just how far up their own arses can they go?

Re:And what if they refuse?

[Anonymous Coward]

Damn, now I want a PS3 just so I can break it, load on another OS and share mp3s of Sony artists on a hacked restaurant connection nearby.
I won't cease or desist till Sony lies in ashes.

Re:And what if they refuse?

[Drakkenmensch]

Far enough that Ouroboros itself will think they're pushing it up a few inches too far.

Re:And what if they refuse?

[Anonymous Coward]

That clearly depends on how the device stands legal in a given country. The DMCA and it's offspring around the world has very intended consequences. Strange coming from a country where it's fine to have firearms designed to kill, yet we mustn't have a device that *may* allow copying entertainment media.

Re:And what if they refuse?

[countertrolling]

Just how far up their own arses can they go?

The question should be, Just how far will the customers let Sony put its foot up their arses? Despite all this from Sony, and Apple too, they just keep on coming back for more. Must be something seductive about the abuse.

Re:And what if they refuse?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sure Sony are quaking in their boots.

Re:And what if they refuse?

[elrous0]

Just how far up their own arses can they go?

Viol8, I'd like you to meet Sony. Obviously you two have never met before, so I'll just let you talk.

Re:And what if they refuse?

[mcgrew]

What is it with this company? Just how far up their own arses can they go?

As far as they want; XCP showed them that. Root and vandalise people's computers (including mine) and have no repercussions whatever -- nobody went to prison, even jail, they not only didn't go bankrupt it didn't affect sales at all. I can't for the life of me figure out why ANYBODY, especially nerds, would buy computer equipment from a company with a history of rooting their own paying customers' computers.

If there is anybody who still buys stuff from Sony, please tell me how you can trust them any farther than you can throw a car?

Re:And what if they refuse?

[morari]

Uh... They apparently are, didn't you read the summary?

Re:And what if they refuse?

[mcgrew]

Must be something seductive about the abuse.

It makes me think of some women I know who keep getting into abusive relationships. Hell, one lady I was dating said I didn't act like a boyfriend, I guess I should have slapped her around some, but I don't need that kind of relationship.

Re:And what if they refuse?

[AmonTheMetalhead]

I still use & buy sony gear, and i'll probably continue to do so in the foreseeable future, however, the gear i do buy is not hindered by drm, rootkits or whatsoever (sofar they''ve not figured out how to stop camera's from working during concerts etc), and as long as those bits work as advertised, and well, i'll use & buy them.

Re:And what if they refuse?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because they are the only competition to the Microsoft Empire that offers a console that's not made of cheap last generation technology.

And since I was never affected by the whole root-kit ordeal (since I don't buy music I can hear for free on several services and use Linux mainly) it's a total non-issue for me.

It's like politics. The lesser of two evils... and Sony has done less to me personally than Microsoft.

Re:And what if they refuse?

[commodore64_love]

>>>Just how far up their own arses can Sony go?

They saw a sign that said, "Microsoft and Apple just ahead," and decided to keep going.

Re:And what if they refuse?

[tlhIngan]

They saw a sign that said, "Microsoft and Apple just ahead," and decided to keep going.

Except I don't think Apple and Microsoft have gone that far yet. Apple and Microsoft have done lots of evil things, but so far, they haven't gone after jailbreakers (Apple hasn't even done anything with the iPhone-dev team), and neither has Microsoft gone after Xbox360 modders (to play pirated games - that's all you can do with the mods). Both do play cat-and-mouse games between modders and jailbreakers, but that's just par for the course.

And I don't think either has gone after customers who've done it. They've gone after the stores who do it as a service, yes, but not the customers.

What Sony's done is like what DirecTV's done - get customer lists and start going after the customers themselves.

Re:And what if they refuse?

[TrancePhreak]

I think Apple did try to go after the iPhone-dev team. However, it was found in a court of law that jailbreaking is legal. http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/07/feds-ok-iphone-jailbreaking/

Re:And what if they refuse?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's what the people who bought the rootkit-containing CDs probably thought. Hell, it's probably what the people who bought a PS3 for OtherOS thought, before Sony remotely removed it after they'd not only taken their money, but I'd guess in most cases were also outside any kind of warranty period. I wouldn't go so far as to say avoid their products (although I do personally), just tread very carefully lest you get burned too. After all, if having already bought what you thought was a good piece of hardware only to have it messed about with post sale isn't beyond them, what is?

Re:And what if they refuse?

[Anonymous Coward]

Indeed, the way I see it, MS largely make trouble for other companies (okay, their inability or negligence makes trouble for customers, but nothing that can't be avoided by a little technical understanding) while Sony seem to make as much trouble for their paying customers as they do for other companies. While I disagree with MS's approach morally, and will avoid their products if there is a suitable alternative, pragmatically, if I need to use their products, I know they won't turn around and bite me. I can't say the same for Sony, who have demonstrated what I can only call disdain for their customers in the past, and where it's most certainly not the case that a little tech savvy would have averted the issue (nobody saw rootkits coming, for instance, and all the tech savvy in the world wouldn't have stopped them ripping OtherOS out of the PS3). In the case of Sony, I will avoid their product even if it means going without - I don't care if it hurts the company or not, it's purely a self preservation thing.

Re:And what if they refuse?

[kenshin33]

It's like politics. The lesser of two evils... and Sony has done less to me personally than Microsoft.

That is precisely what is wrong with politics.

Re:And what if they refuse?

[cpghost]

Are Sony seriously going to sue people for not handing over their legal property to Sony?

Welcome to the wonderful world of ACTA... even before ACTA became reality. A glimpse into the future, proudly presented by SONY.

Re:And what if they refuse?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why throw a car, when you can drive one through the window of their corporate offices attached to about 500 kilos of C4, lovingly timered with a digital clock.....manufactured by Sony! (cue evil laughter) ...not that I actually ADVOCATE such a thing, of course.

Re:And what if they refuse?

[Anonymous Coward]

I love Sony products and do my best to only buy Sony.

But I dont play videogames.
I never have and have never understood why anyone would play videogames.
On a sidenote how do people have the time to play games anyways?

Sony is just doing what it needs to do to protect its profits.
No different than any company or government or any of us for that matter.

Sony for me is #1 and I am not the only one who feels this way.

Of course Apple is #1 to most people but thats a whole other story.

Re:And what if they refuse?

[Docboy-J23]

I recently worked on a customer's Sony VAIO laptop. The system wasn't cooling properly and was shutting down hard with increasing frequency.

Sony support advised backing up the user's data before shipping it to them. Duh. However, I couldn't pull the drive to retrieve the data without voiding the warranty. The damn thing wouldn't stay powered up for more than 10 minutes. By the time we actually (hopefully) transferred everything we needed, it wouldn't boot the OS because it had been scrambled by so many hard crashes.

They should have been responsible for the customer's data with such a draconian policy. Not that I'd trust them to do it properly (or at all).

Re:And what if they refuse?

[Lotharus]

Interesting. You respond by promising illegal acts (dissemination of copyrighted works). (As an aside, for the sake of this argument, who fscking cares about the sense behind the law, it is law.)

I respond by not wanting to buy another Sony product, ever. I bought an Xbox 360 for the Indie development opportunity. I figured the next current console I'd buy would be a Wii simply because it's less expensive. This behavior of Sony cinches it. I will never(*) own a PS3.

(*) Never say never...

Re:And what if they refuse?

[mcgrew]

I still use & buy sony gear, and i'll probably continue to do so in the foreseeable future, however, the gear i do buy is not hindered by drm, rootkits or whatsoever

How do you know? One of the characteristics of rootkits is their invisibility.

Re:And what if they refuse?

[mcgrew]

Not with politics, but with the way the corporate media has convinced the public that a third party vote is wasted. I'm of the opinion that a vote for a candidate who's in the corporations' pockets is wasted; I want my representatives to represent ME, not the RIAA or banking industry.

Useless

[xenobyte]

How do they expect this to work?

Sure you can sue if they use trademarked names like "Sony" or "PS3", but a dongle with a name like "Freedom" and containing no code or hardware copyrighted by Sony cannot be stopped.

Yes, it is a device to circumvent copy protection but far from all European countries have laws banning such devices, and once they're in a European country the device can be moved freely to other countries.

I would buy such a device, mostly just to spite Sony and their megalomania.

Re:Useless

[Anonymous Coward]

They expect it to work because it works. They may not be illegal in every European country, but in the one this article talks about they are. The devices were intercepted in customs. They'll never be handed over to the buyers, regardless of any cease-and-desist letters Sony may or may not send out. How do you think they got the adresses of the buyers in the first place?

Re:Useless

[Anonymous Coward]

All European countries have a law against devices that circumvent copy protection. This is actually an European Law.

Re:Useless

[elrous0]

It's American law too.

Re:Useless

[mischi_amnesiac]

Germany has a law that prevents you from hacking any and all encryption and protection. So even programs circumventing CSS encryption on DVDs are technically not legal.

Bubble

[kurtis25]

This rash of crazy lawyer stories leads me to believe we are in a law suit Bubble. Eventually garbage law suits, Cease and Desists, threats, extra will come to an end bursting the bubble lawyers have grown so accustom to.

Re:Bubble

[WCMI92]

This rash of crazy lawyer stories leads me to believe we are in a law suit Bubble. Eventually garbage law suits, Cease and Desists, threats, extra will come to an end bursting the bubble lawyers have grown so accustom to.

Lawyers who practice this sort of "law" are not productive members of society but are parasites. There will be tort reform eventually. Or the lawyer class (which dominates Congress, btw) will come face to face with the pitchfork and torch class. There are so many opportunities that have been lost or are never tried for fear of the broken legal system and parasite lawyers.

Re:Bubble

[Anonymous Coward]

You're funny. Lawyers are the dominant profession in most countries' legislative. They'll do anything to keep this up.

Re:Bubble

[Anonymous Coward]

If it hurts society, why aren't we erecting laws against this practice?

Re:Bubble

[Anonymous Coward]

If it takes a law to fix a law, then we are probably not going to make any progress.

Re:Bubble

[Anonymous Coward]

The bursting of this bubble can only lead to one outcome - Gene Simmons coming over and ripping divots from your lawn, until you comply.

Re:Bubble

[Anonymous Coward]

That's why the whole works needs to be cleansed. Rout them all out, top to bottom. Replace with honest folk and a warning that if they don't stay honest, it'll be time to clean house again.

Re:Bubble

[exomondo]

If it hurts society, why aren't we erecting laws against this practice?

Because those laws would be made and enforced by lawyers.

Re:Bubble

[Anonymous Coward]

a warning that if they don't stay honest, it'll be time to clean house again.

Why do you think "democracies" all around the world - particularly America and the EU - reduce civil liberties and bolster police and law enforcement with laws, procedures and equipment aimed at surveillance, riot control/suppression?

There will be an attempted house cleansing due to the fact that everybody but the rich suffers from declining quality of life. Governments know this and instead of fixing issues they are preparing to stay in power - by force.

That's one warning that won't work because they have the power to subvert the system and the general voter is too stupid to do anything about it.

Implicit Agreement?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oooh, so that means that Sony are implicitly agreeing that I have a right to that device, because they require that I agree to surrender that right?

Re:Implicit Agreement?

[Anonymous Coward]

a lawyer....get him!

Is Litigation all Sony Has?

[BoRegardless]

If Sony didn't plan for this in the beginning, then I understand why they have resorted to this as a last gasp. That means there was a major hole in their business plan.

Sony once held the mindshare Apple has now. For me, so many Sony items have had problems, that they are off my radar.

The world moves on and a major player must move ahead of it, or at least with it or it dies. I just don't get the concept of a company suing the retail consumers of its hardware.

Re:Is Litigation all Sony Has?

[drinkypoo]

The answer to your question is yes. Litigation is all Sony has. You don't sue your customers unless you otherwise lack a viable business model. Sony is the SCO of computer gaming. The same is clearly true of Blizzard today. People don't want to play their game the way they want it played, and they are willing to shit on them to try to stop them. This is what happens when the hands and the brain are disconnected.

Re:Is Litigation all Sony Has?

[Anonymous Coward]

In general I agree with you, but what everyone seems to be forgetting is that there is a multiplayer component to consider. I don't have a PS3, but if I did I would be pissed if some douchebag was cheating against me. I don't know if any of these hacks can or are being used in any online components of any games, but if they are then Sony has an obligation to the rest of their customers to do something about it. Of course actually bringing suit against their own customers is not the way to go; I don't know if Sony has the capability, but Microsoft regularly bans consoles (which have unique identifiers) when they catch cheaters (and modders in general, which is unfortunate but understandable).

Re:Is Litigation all Sony Has?

[jimicus]

Yesterday's interview with John Sculley compared Sony with Apple, and I think was quite appropriate here.

Apple think about the experience as a whole and work their way down to the components that are necessary to deliver that experience. Sony start with getting the components and build that up to an experience.

Which worked fine back when we were using analogue or mostly-analogue products for home entertainment. I include CD players in this list because 99 times out of 100, they go from digital to analogue using discrete electronics quite early on in the process of listening to them.

It doesn't work so well when we're using essentially embedded computers to provide it all.

Re:Is Litigation all Sony Has?

[andydread]

I am a former Sony reseller and former Sony fanboy. Lived the Sony Style life etc. We have installed and recommended tens of millions of dollars worth of Sony equipment (pro and consumer) over the decades from the 80s-late90s. Sony at one time used to be an electronics company and therefor was more on the side of the electronics consumer rather than the content creators who want control over all electronics. They fought a battle with the MPAA/RIAA back in the 80s for the right of the consumer to record video with the VCR. They battled all the way to the supreme court and won. It all went south when Sony became a content company. When that happened, Sony's Draconian side reared its ugly head. They became major members of the US lobby groups RIAA/MPAA and their attitude towards the consumer changed from pro-consumer to anti-consumer. I got off the Sony bandwagon around this time and we eventually moved away from recommending their products. Then came the rootkit fiasco and the constant lobbying and lying to congress and the constant corruption. Their relentless pursuit to proprietize the electronics industry and control the media format industry has never changed. From the early days of the Betamax to the Minidisc arguably better formats at the time? to the memory stick and other failed ventures. Sony has now become one of the most Draconian companies on the planet and I cannot consider giving them one more penny or recommending Sony to anyone ever again.

Re:Is Litigation all Sony Has?

[Raenex]

You don't sue your customers unless you otherwise lack a viable business model. [..] The same is clearly true of Blizzard today.

You'd have a point if Blizzard wasn't making truck loads of money.

Re:Is Litigation all Sony Has?

[Theoboley]

You really don't have to worry about this, as there's not a way (yet) to connect up with Sony's PSN with a jailbroken PS3. Get your knickers out of a twist.

Re:Is Litigation all Sony Has?

[znerk]

You'd have a point if Blizzard wasn't making truck loads of money.

... right this second? Sure.

In another couple months, when they've disconnected and shut down all their users for cheating in single-player mode? Hmm... Might not be such a good idea for them to have all this negative publicity at the same time as they're losing players in droves over the Cataclysm gameplay changes.

To get back on topic, I don't own a PS3, but if I did, I would have sued Sony for false advertisement and fraud when they removed the ability to run OtherOS on it (it was an advertised feature, thank you very much); stopping me from purchasing whatever this hardware addon is just more of the same, expected behavior from Sony, which is why I haven't knowingly purchased a Sony product in years (ever since they showed how ethical their company wasn't by installing rootkits on PCs by using virus-like methods on audio CDs).

Sony simply hasn't given me any reason to trust them at all, while showing me constantly that I shouldn't trust them.
Easy decision, there; They don't get my money.

Re:Is Litigation all Sony Has?

[Raenex]

In another couple months, when they've disconnected and shut down all their users for cheating in single-player mode?

I bet you Blizzard will be doing just fine.

To get back on topic, I don't own a PS3, but if I did, I would have sued Sony for false advertisement and fraud when they removed the ability to run OtherOS on it

People have sued Sony over that. There's a class action lawsuit going on as well as individual lawsuits.

Sony simply hasn't given me any reason to trust them at all, while showing me constantly that I shouldn't trust them.

I respect your decision. Personally, I bought a PS3 because I wanted a next-gen gaming console and there aren't very many choices. Even Nintendo is aggressive with anti-piracy measures.

Re:Is Litigation all Sony Has?

[__aailob1448]

At this point in time, anyone with an old PS3 can use this and pirate any PS3 game already released offline.

The PS3 firmware can and will be updated to patch this exploit. Sony is quite safe from piracy and homebrew enthousiasts will have to choose between homebrew software and firmware upgrades + online play + new games.

Re:Is Litigation all Sony Has?

[znerk]

I respect your decision. Personally, I bought a PS3 because I wanted a next-gen gaming console and there aren't very many choices.

For the money they were asking for the PS3, I bought another gaming PC. Plenty of options for low-cost or no-cost gaming, and when I need to do "serious" things, I don't have to switch "appliances".

If you purchased a gaming console because it suited your needs, that's fine. If you purchased it because of the additional features (for instance, a friend of mine bought one because he considers it to be a BLuRay player with bonus features), then that is fine.

My argument is against giving Sony money (essentially subsidizing their dirty tactics), not against playing games on the console of your choice.

Re:Is Litigation all Sony Has?

[Raenex]

For the money they were asking for the PS3, I bought another gaming PC.

Not to get into a PC vs. console war, but there are advantages to a console that I enjoy. Mainly I like that it's a static target for the developers, I like the "couch" aspect, and the Blu-ray was a minor bonus. I didn't buy my PS3 until the Slim came out for $300, so it was a pretty good deal in my eyes compared to a gaming PC.

My argument is against giving Sony money (essentially subsidizing their dirty tactics), not against playing games on the console of your choice.

I understand, but there is no such thing as a 100% clean company, so we all make compromises to some extent. As I said, I respect your decision.

The anti-homebrew stance explained

[tepples]

Why oh why is it so difficult for companies to allow the end user to use their devices to the fullest extent possible?

So that they can squeeze more money out of developers. If homebrew were easy, or even as easy as it is on iPod touch, iPhone, and iPad, major labels would develop and sell their games through the homebrew path to market to cut overhead.

HOW ABOUT THIS: why not allow for home brew, but prevent media copying?

Allowing homebrew will inevitably result in media copying. This could be through cloning of patented games (such as Dance Dance Revolution), through cloning of games on whose rules the developer makes a flimsy copyright claim (such as Tetris), or through infringing ROM images that run on homebrew emulators.

Re:The anti-homebrew stance explained

[tgd]

The problem is less homebrew and more that the ways homebrew tends to be done opens the system up to cheating.

They don't care about cheating in a single-player game, but rampant cheating in online games will drive gamers to another platform.

Re:The anti-homebrew stance explained

[tepples]

The problem is less homebrew and more that the ways homebrew tends to be done opens the system up to cheating.

Then why did prior consoles without thorough online support have either no or quickly discontinued (Net Yaroze, PS2 Linux) official homebrew?

They don't care about cheating in a single-player game

Yes they do. It screws up the trophy system. Blizzard is suing.

Re:The anti-homebrew stance explained

[Anonymous Coward]

Not to mention, all kinds of hacking/cheating seems possible on the 360 and yet that remains a popular multiplayer platform. Oh, people complain, but nobody's leaving over it. No, I suspect that's a smokescreen Sony are using to disguise what they're really up to.

Ughhh WHY?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why are people doing this?

I Mean..

1) Buy PS3
2) Buy dongle
3) Get sued
4) ???
5) PROFIT! (for sony)

I think it's obvious that the problem is in step 1.

Kill-A-Client, more effective

[tepples]

It's only me who have the impression that lawyers are going crazy?

Behind every sleazy lawyer is a sleazier client. Blame Sony, and vote with your money. That's one reason why I have a Philips TV, stereo, and DVD recorder in the room where I'm typing this.

Re:Kill-A-Client, more effective

[WCMI92]

Behind every sleazy lawyer is a sleazier client. Blame Sony, and vote with your money. That's one reason why I have a Philips TV, stereo, and DVD recorder in the room where I'm typing this.

I've been boycotting Sony since SOE (their MMO publisher) destroyed Star Wars Galaxies in a sleazy bait and switch (announced the day after they charged us for an expansion half of which was being rendered useless two weeks later). I am speaking of course about the NGE.

I am in a position of influence in electronics purchasing in my company. Guess who got crossed off the bid list as "does not meet spec" when we spent a quarter of a million on videoconferencing? Sony. I go out of my way to make sure that I cost them as much money as possible. The only reason why I'd not do this hack is that I would never own a PS3 in the FIRST place...

Re:Kill-A-Client, more effective

[suomynonAyletamitlU]

Behind every sleazy lawyer is a sleazier client. Blame Sony

I disagree. There is no single client which could possibly be the cause of this entire screwed-up sue-happy culture, but as long as the sue-happy culture persists, clients can be enticed to become twisted, sleazy companies.

Blame the country/countries involved. They're the ones who are supposed to be making sure it doesn't happen. The lawyers are within their rights, and that's the real problem.

I want a dongle, but no PS3

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't own a PS3 nor any other Sony product, but now I want to hop over the German border and openly buy this dongle there. Would be fun to be sued, since there would be no connection between me and Sony except for the dongle. I have some very good lawyers with a good sense of humour among my friends (yes, such guys & gals do exist) who might be interested to pull this.

Re:I want a dongle, but no PS3

[Lumpy]

Do you watch TV? then you support sony as almost ALL tv shows are produced with either a Sony editing system (Sony OWNS the live TV editing market... Daily Show and Colbert Report are on Sony gear for live editing and switching...) shot on Sony cameras or are on cameras that use the Sony AVCHD format. Most of Discovery Channel now shoots on AVCHD cameras as digital delivery to cheap sd cards is better than the tape alternative.

So stop watching TV as well, as that supports Sony. (a different division that has nothing to do with the others, but it's still "Sony")

Re:I want a dongle, but no PS3

[drinkypoo]

So stop watching TV as well, as that supports Sony. (a different division that has nothing to do with the others, but it's still "Sony")

There is no such thing as a different division that has nothing to do with the others. They're all Sony. Criticising all of Sony for the actions of any of its portions is as rational as criticising a person for the actions of any of their limbs. People who don't have control over one or more limbs have a responsibility to keep them under control by any means necessary... straps, chains, whatever.

Re:I want a dongle, but no PS3

[znerk]

Sounds like a plan, except I don't watch "broadcast programming" to start with. Perhaps those of you who decide to *completely* stop supporting Sony should write letters to the TV stations and TV shows that you care for/about, and let them know of your decision - which includes boycotting TV because they use Sony products to produce it.

Send letters to advertisers whose commercials you see on those shows, as well, telling them the same thing.

Hit the middlemen (the TV producers) in the pocketbook for their equipment manufacturers' misdeeds...

Ok, yeah, I'm going over the top with this. However, at what point do we stop letting the major corporations step all over us, and start stepping back? What is the best method for getting this ridiculous kind of behavior stopped?

Not actually expecting an answer, just trying to jump-start some of those brains.

Re:I want a dongle, but no PS3

[Anonymous Coward]

But there are very distinct divisions that act very distinctly. It's not many limbs under control of one body, it's many individual people living under one house's rules. SOE is a game developer, SCE makes gaming hardware, Sony/BMG enable deals with the devil, another division exclusively focuses on televisions, others on professional video hardware, and I'm sure the guys making ACID and AVID and so on have little connection with the guys making games and music deals.

Recent actions of SCE are despicable, which is unfortunate because I always considered them the "cleanest" part of sony. The PS3 had been the most open and out-of-the-box capable console compared to any other that had come out yet. Of course the slashdot crowd saw BMGs shitty actions take it out on SCE/PS3 when news were slow coming out of BMG. Consider using one? Its failure rate is quite low, considering how many of you are using the "Sony TVs are unreliable" argument against it. Unlike the 360, it plays dvds and blu ray out of the box. It has media center functionality out of the box, was quite expandable (used to have all those SD/MMC slots back in the day, now just usb-- still better than the other consoles). The PS3 doesn't use a proprietary hard drive, unlike a certain competitor; it had webbrowsing, unlike a certain competitor; and the option of full backwards compatibility.

Is it awesome-super-godly-great? No. I, for one, like streaming my music and movies to it from my pc without having to set a single piece of software up beforehand. I like plugging in a usb stick with media on it when I don't stream. I also don't buy any mainstream albums, much less sony/bmg ones. I haven't bought a tv in a long time, but I will be avoiding Sony's. That being said, the ps division has generally, up until recently, at least, been good to us.

Maybe it was just a "given" that Microsoft's offering was going to be extra-proprietary, so no stories focused on it. And maybe it was a given that the wii intended to be a toy and not much more, so no stories focused on it. But I've heard gaming fanboys use more fact-checking in attacking consoles than most /. stories do concerning the ps3.

Re:I want a dongle, but no PS3

[Anonymous Coward]

You realize they would only be replaced with another, equally repressive yet technologically inferior, company's products, don't you?

Re:I want a dongle, but no PS3

[drinkypoo]

But there are very distinct divisions that act very distinctly. It's not many limbs under control of one body, it's many individual people living under one house's rules.

A corporation is a legal construct and legally, all those divisions are part of the same corporation. That means it very much is many limbs under control of one body. Indeed, the word "body" has a sense which can mean a group or collection, so you are wrong whether you examine this from a logical standpoint or indeed from one of language.

Recent actions of SCE are despicable, which is unfortunate because I always considered them the "cleanest" part of sony.

What's unfortunate is your inability to understand that Sony is a single entity. That's how they want it, and therefore, that is how they get it. They put the same logo on everything, so they clearly wish you to consider them a single entity. Only a fanboy would imagine them to be separate entities so that they can feel good about their purchases.

The PS3 had been the most open and out-of-the-box capable console compared to any other that had come out yet.

We could argue about that all day. I would put the 360 ahead of the PS3 due to the relative ease of becoming a developer. Since Sony took away the most open part of the console (which was itself locked down to prevent it from being very useful) I guess we know which company values openness more. Sony has always sought to force you into doing things their way. Microsoft tries to cajole and harass you into it instead, but they know which side their bread is buttered on... the side on which the developers reside. Sony has been downright hostile to developers with their very choice of architecture. The Saturn died for a lot of reasons but part of it was that making cool games was just easier on the Playstation. Then Sony turned around and made two consoles in a row that require you to master a special Sony martial art to even utilize the hardware fully, and made it possible for Microsoft to enter the market meaningfully. The second of those was even priced way too high, which was the OTHER main mistake made by Sega with the Saturn. Sony is apparently incapable of learning, but we'll see when the hardware behind the PS4 is announced. If it's another Cell processor then they have no fucking clue.

Is it awesome-super-godly-great? No. I, for one, like streaming my music and movies to it from my pc without having to set a single piece of software up beforehand. I like plugging in a usb stick with media on it when I don't stream. I also don't buy any mainstream albums, much less sony/bmg ones. I haven't bought a tv in a long time, but I will be avoiding Sony's. That being said, the ps division has generally, up until recently, at least, been good to us.

I see you have forgotten about Sony's destruction of Lik-Sang. Those who forget the lessons of history are doomed to look like a dipshit on public fora.

Maybe it was just a "given" that Microsoft's offering was going to be extra-proprietary, so no stories focused on it. And maybe it was a given that the wii intended to be a toy and not much more, so no stories focused on it. But I've heard gaming fanboys use more fact-checking in attacking consoles than most /. stories do concerning the ps3.

There are all breeds of fanboys. I am an anti-fanboy, I trust no one. I have a 360 but not a PS3 only because when I went to get a PS3 they didn't have GTA4 in stock, and then I saw a used 360 with a bunch of games including GTA4 for sale on Craigslist. The evil bastards would have had my money if not for the incompetence of Kmart, true story. Since then I've become even more incensed — removing Linux from the PS3 was for me the final straw and I will no longer buy anything from Sony new or even refurb'd. Some wireless headphones are destined to be my final Sony purchase. In addition, wh

I don't own a PS3

[digitaldc]

And after reading this, I probably never will.

Trademarked names

[tepples]

Sure you can sue if they use trademarked names like "Sony" or "PS3", but a dongle with a name like "Freedom"

And in countries with sane trademark law, nominative use to specify compatible products made by other companies is not an infringement: "FREEDOM service tool by TropeCo, for use with PLAYSTATION 3 console by Sony".

and containing no code or hardware copyrighted by Sony

Sony can claim non-literal copying. But even in the U.S., whose Digital Millennium Copyright Act is widely thought on Slashdot to be stricter than its European counterparts, copying small pieces of code solely for interoperability has been shown not to infringe. Sega v. Accolade; Lexmark v. Static Control Components.

Other OS was shut down

[tepples]

What Sony should do is open up a sandbox environment in the PS3 in which homebrew developers can run their own software without problems.

It did, until the slim PS3 came out and Sony left out the Other OS drivers to cut cost. Then the first hints of cracks came out with the stated goal of reenabling Other OS on the slim PS3, and Sony pushed out PS3 system software 3.21 to shut them down on the original PS3. Then the cat and mouse game started in earnest.

I don't see why piracy and homebrew are always treated as one by these console developers.

I explained the rationale against homebrew in another comment.

Re:Other OS was shut down

[marcansoft]

They didn't leave Other OS out to cut the cost, as Linux has been proven to run on the Slim pretty much exactly the same way as it does on older consoles. It was deliberately disabled because they felt like it; there is no good technical reason.

Re:Other OS was shut down

[Anonymous Coward]

I heard on somewhat good authority that it was disabled due to pressure from companies wanting to sell emulation packs on the PSN store. The Linux support made this business model nonviable because MAME and other emulators had already been ported to the open source Linux platform on the system. Sony were only bowing to pressure from their corporate peers.

Re:Other OS was shut down

[Lumpy]

Yes.

Why has everyone IGNORED the glaring fact in the room.

None of this crap was going on with any strength until sony became idiots and shut down the OtherOS function.

It's their fault. They caused it, and they will lose.

Re:Other OS was shut down

[CronoCloud]

Actually, Geohot caused it, Sony was just being paranoid and overestimated his abilities.

Re:Other OS was shut down

[Moryath]

Bullshit. Geohot's hack required inserting a fucking wire into the console after taking it half apart, then slamming a switch like mad to cause the console to glitch.

This is ENTIRELY $ony's fault for being a bunch of paranoid-delusional morons. I wonder if the people responsible for this debacle are the same morons $ony poached from Nintendo who were responsible for the mind-bogglingly stupid design idiocy of cartridges on the N64 and mini-dvds on the Gamecube.

Re:Other OS was shut down

[gorzek]

That certainly makes Sony sound like an innocent victim or at worst a hapless bystander, which is laughable. Seems more likely some companies approached Sony about their ideas to sell emulated games on the PS3, and pointed out that the Other OS feature significantly reduces the sales potential of emulated games. "Don't worry," Sony said, "We'll take care of it." After doing the math and figuring up how much more they'd make in license fees, of course.

Re:Other OS was shut down

[AltairDusk]

People are still blaming Geohot for Sony's actions? Let Sony be responsible for their own decisions.

Re:Other OS was shut down

[Anonymous Coward]

You are wrong, Geoshit should have kept quiet instead of doing a half assed attempt at hacking the system. He is just an attention whore who got his 15 minutes of fame. Nobody remembers him anymore.

Re:Other OS was shut down

[index0]

Does the phrase "stop hitting yourself" have any meaning to you? HINT: Most of the time, it is not you hitting yourself, but a big bully.

Re:Other OS was shut down

[idontgno]

I heard on somewhat good authority that it was disabled due to pressure from companies wanting to sell emulation packs on the PSN store. The Linux support made this business model nonviable because MAME and other emulators had already been ported to the open source Linux platform on the system. Sony were only bowing to pressure from their corporate peers.

And someone go gives in to peer pressure to smoke PCP-laced pot and goes on a slashing rampage isn't a victim of peer pressure, but a drug-crazed violent criminal who should be fairly tried, swiftly convicted, and sternly punished both for criminal drug abuse and violent assault with intent to kill.

I sincerely hope you're not trying to defend Sony's position on the basis of "peer pressure". It's the oldest, and least credible, cop-out in existence.

Of course, you're posting AC, so you probably either (A) realize it's not a defensible position, or (B) are trolling. Oh, well.

Re:Other OS was shut down

[Anonymous Coward]

Ignored? It is brought up as the main point in every single PS3 related thread since they dropped Other OS support.

Re:Other OS was shut down

[guyminuslife]

You know, whatever the content of your post, it's a really silly idea to replace the letter "s" with a dollar sign, as an epithet. For one, epithets are much louder than solid arguments, but they're also less effective at making a point, and reflect poorly upon the speaker. For another, that particular formulation is a very tired old cliche, never a clever one and worn out long past its welcome.

I call troll, on general principle.

Re:Other OS was shut down

[Anonymous Coward]

Or it could be once someone managed to get into the system (like say Geohot through the OtherOS exploit) it became much easier for people to ruffle around through the rest of the system looking for more convenient holes to exploit.

A, then B doesn't mean A caused B.

Re:Other OS was shut down

[wallsg]

They didn't leave Other OS out to cut the cost, as Linux has been proven to run on the Slim pretty much exactly the same way as it does on older consoles. It was deliberately disabled because they felt like it; there is no good technical reason.

The reason is that Sony is in the PS3 business to sell $60 games, not provide a Blu-ray player that you can run Linux on. They must feel the ill will is worth the benefit of not only disabling it from future buyers but for their entire installed base. It was a stupid marketing move, IMO.

Sony Music and Sony Pictures

[tepples]

I don't own a PS3 nor any other Sony product

I find that highly unlikely. Search your CD collection for Columbia Records or Epic Records, then search your VHS and/or DVD collection for Columbia Pictures or TriStar Pictures.

Re:Sony Music and Sony Pictures

[Anonymous Coward]

>Buying Music

Re:Sony Music and Sony Pictures

[groslyunderpaid]

You may get me yet, but I own ZERO cd's or dvd's.

People still buy shit from Sony?

[WCMI92]

Really? After so many years of producing shit that they can't even sell TV's (something Sony used to be famous for making the best) under their own name anymore, why do people still buy ANYTHING Sony?

The premise of threatening OWNERS of a piece of hardware for doing with that hardware whatever they please, which they have the absolute right to do (including burning it or running over it with the car) is ridiculous. And if someone is finally going to be stupid enough to sue a customer over violating a shrinkwrap, unilateral, "we reserve the right to change anything at any time at our SOLE discretion" EULA, please, PLEASE for the love of God let it be a company as stupid, corrupt and intellectually bankrupt as Sony.

Threatening end users who make modifications to the console that they PURCHASED is as ridiculous as Ford suing me for buying one of their cars then changing the rims so I can put a different size of tire on them...

Re:People still buy shit from Sony?

[Lumpy]

Why do I buy SONY?

Because nobody makes a better Professional HD camcorder.
Because nobody makes a better Windows Video editing platform outside of AVID. (No Adobe's products are not pro level)
Because nobody makes a LIVE video production suite that is as capable...
Because nobody makes a digital Video recording format that is as good as AVCHD or XDCAM.
Because nobody makes a better digital video stream processor like Sony's.
Because nobody makes a pocked field editing system like the PDWHR1.. I can have only 2 guys in the field to shoot and edit a small event and upload the thing before they pack up the car and leave, the thing will DIRECT SFTP the files to the server as they drive down the road.

That's why. SONY OWNS the commercial production video market hands down. Because the other choices are mediocre or half assed with bad work-flows. Panasonic and JVC utterly suck in workflow.

Re:People still buy shit from Sony?

[tophermeyer]

Threatening end users who make modifications to the console that they PURCHASED is as ridiculous as Ford suing me for buying one of their cars then changing the rims so I can put a different size of tire on them...

Sony doesn't mind if you open up your PS3 and start soldering bits yourself. Sony is actively trying to stop the distribution of these dongles. It sounds like a petty distinction, but it is an important one. Ford wouldn't have sued you for modifying the rims. He would have sued you for purchasing third party rims whose sole reason for existence is modifying one of his cars.

I'm not saying it's right. I'm just saying that Sony isn't pursuing the physical modifications themselves as much as they are pursuing the market of modification enabling devices.

Re:People still buy shit from Sony?

[jimicus]

Erm.... actually, I think they could probably do this in the US as well.

Four letters for you: DMCA.

Re:People still buy shit from Sony?

[Anonymous Coward]

And you represent who? An extremely small segment of their customer base, that's who.

My last sony device was the ps3. I very seriously doubt i'll ever buy sony again. Their LTs are engineered to break every six months (from my personal experience) and they've become increasingly hostile toward a community that they helped create - alternate oses for the ps3. Now this.

Sony is, imho, morally bankrupt.

Re:People still buy shit from Sony?

[L4t3r4lu5]

Just how many of those examples of professional video creation and editing equipment are in any way comparable to the consumer PlayStation 3 game console?

This isn't apples and oranges, this is 12w food blender electric motor and Ferarri Type 056 2.4L V8 petrol engine.

Re:People still buy shit from Sony?

[znerk]

They also own YOU, and don't have any qualms about taking you to court to prove it.

You're obviously ok with that, and that's your choice to make. The rest of us think it's stupid to respond to someone spitting in your face by saying "Thank you, please keep making the gear that my livelihood depends on."

Re:People still buy shit from Sony?

[znerk]

Ford wouldn't have sued you for modifying the rims. He would have sued you for purchasing third party rims whose sole reason for existence is modifying one of his cars.

Logic and reality failure.

Car manufacturers don't sue you for purchasing aftermarket modifications, nor do they sue the parts suppliers for those modifications. They may not honor your warranty if you modify your car with aftermarket parts, and your insurance company won't insure aftermarket modifications, but they don't sue you for doing silly things to your car.

Now, if you were leasing the car, I could see an issue... but this is a purchased product.
Similarly, when you run down to the store and purchase a game console, it belongs to you.

Re:People still buy shit from Sony?

[AXE7540]

FWIW, I own a PS3 and I'm happy about it. No annual fees, easy access to new movies, high def discless Netflix with 5.1 sound, a blue ray player, web browser, streaming music and video from my PC and games. My PS3 has worked for 3 years without a hitch. All for a few hundred bucks. I understand the frustration the home brew community has with them. Its was a bait and switch to pull the other OS but the other consoles never even offered the option. They are definitely barking up the wrong tree if they are attacking the purchasers of the dongles. They may have some agreement with software developers to enforce that requires them to use ever means available to prohibit piracy. Not to mention if the dongle or other OS were to facilitate cheats that would ruin the gaming for me. I'm for shutting it down if it makes cheating easier.

Re:People still buy shit from Sony?

[Anonymous Coward]

... and your insurance company won't insure aftermarket modifications unless you pay more...

FTFY

Re:People still buy shit from Sony?

[ADRA]

*shrugs*

I think you're really really angry over not much. Sony TV's still rock for me. They may be a tad expensive, but I never look at my peers and think wow, that TV is mo much better than mine.

"which they have the absolute right to do"

I was under the impression that the broken DMCA (in the US anyways) gives them the right to sue companies and individuals for circumventing their copy protection mechanisms. Since this product clearly facilitates the ability to run pirated PS3 games, I don't see how they don't have a legal leg to stand on. If YOU don't like it, then get the DMCA repealed or at least stripped back. You live in a democracy, live with it.

"Threatening end users who make modifications to the console that they PURCHASED is as ridiculous as Ford suing me for buying one of their cars then changing the rims so I can put a different size of tire on them..."

Your argument here is completely inconsequential. The fact of changing the rims has basically no functional impact on the operation of the vehicle. Lets take a new scenario: a computer mod being sold by "HotttCarz" Inc. increases the speed of Mustangs by 10%. All the Mustang speed lovers get out and install it. All of a sudden, Ford gets a raft of inexplicable Mustang accident reports finding that the engines are catching fire at high speeds. Tracking down the problem to this mod, would you say that Ford has the right to sue HotttCarz for making the modification, or even customers who foolishly installed (and refuse to uninstall it) the piece of software given that they could still hypothetically be liable for it in a court case? Yes this is not the same as piracy, but where exactly do you draw a moral line between what is acceptable, and which isn't?

Re:People still buy shit from Sony?

[innot]

...V8 petrol engine.

which incidentaly makes a very nice replacement for a

...12w food blender electric motor...

Re:People still buy shit from Sony?

[BigSes]

My 52" 240hz Bravia Z series was a pretty damn nice tv until a Wii-mote cracked the LCD. I wanted to blame Sony or Nintendo, but in the end, had to blame Captain Morgan.

Re:People still buy shit from Sony?

[Anonymous Coward]

Your Ford analogy works great when referring to cars but to the console it is completely idiotic.

The new rims you put on your car do not give you free access to every other product that Ford puts out during the lifecycle of your car. You can't just walk in to the Ford dealership rent an engine from their display for $4.99, then walk over to your car and clone it, then return the engine to Ford the next day.

It would be a great world if developers could trust us to only use our hacked consoles for playing sweet homebrew games but that is just a pipedream. There are always going to be a metric ass-ton of people who are going to use it for piracy. Heck, that might not even be that bad... except the company that developed the game will now have to also provide support to the X number of users who stole their game.

Re:People still buy shit from Sony?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes. the PS3 is awesome kit. Easilly the best console out. Most Sony products are substantially better than their competitors products. Sure you may pay a little more, but quality costs.

I have been through 7 Xbox360 consoles, and it was a truely abysmal experience. My PS3 is 10x the hardware and the exclusives are 10x better.

You get what you pay for in life. You buy a cheap trailer-trash K-Mart 360 console, you get crap.

Re:People still buy shit from Sony?

[Anonymous Coward]

I love that everyone is complaining about Sony, first let me say I am the biggest open source lover on the planet, but I didnt go get a ps3 for developement, or to run Linux, or to jack with the hardware, I bought it to play games. Look dude, for the typical consumer that is not trying to "code" or "hack" their ps3, that has no intent to pirate games, the ps3 is a excellent home entertainment device, it plays blu-ray and the games are excellent, it streams netflix, plays videos, browses my family photos and plays music, plus its surfs the web "kind of " for 300$, and you complaining that its not an open platform that will let you do whatever you want. I love the question "do people still by from sony" , umm yeah what other console are you going to buy M$ or Nintendo? As if they are any more open in their consoles, I don't know too many people writing "code" or running linux on their WII,

If you wanna jack with stuff go get PC, your complaints just sound like a whiner who got busted pirating games.

Re:People still buy shit from Sony?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's true, because there's _so_many_other_ companies producing consoles equivalent to the PS3.

Oh wait. Only the leviathan Microsoft has managed to do it. What was your point again?

What did they expect?

[lemnik]

When Sony removed the "Other OS" option from the PS3 they locked people out of a legitimate and relatively safe homebrew environment. Somewhere that people could play with the device without voiding their warranty. It was an option that really "sold" the device to many people who now own one.

While someone would have eventually jail-broken the device, I doubt it would be as widely used as these dongles are; if Sony had (a) left the "Other OS" option in, and (b) possibly added said-option to the "slim" PS3 consoles. The way to combat people jail-braking a device is to give them a safe way to homebrew without the possibility of bricking their consoles or voiding the warranty.

I bought a psjailbreak device to repair my ps3

[Bert64]

I bought a PS3 to run linux and play around with cell programming...

Sony broke my ps3 by updating the firmware to 3.30, so i bought a dongle which i intend to use to repair the otherwise broken system:

http://www.ps3hax.net/2010/10/asbestos-running-linux-as-gameos/

All i'm doing, is fixing advertised functionality which was present in the ps3 when i bought it.

Re:I bought a psjailbreak device to repair my ps3

[CronoCloud]

All i'm doing, is fixing advertised functionality which was present in the ps3 when i bought it.

Show me an actual SCEfoo paid advertisement featuring OtherOS.....you can't. While the feature got mentioned in a few interviews with tech journalists and got mentioned on sites like Slashdot and Joystiq it was never "advertised".

Re:I bought a psjailbreak device to repair my ps3

[Anonymous Coward]

Here you go, current and a copy from 2006

Re:I bought a psjailbreak device to repair my ps3

[Vanderhoth]

Word of mouth is advertising. If a Sony said the PS3 had the capability to run another OS in a TV commercial, an interview, a magazine article or otherwise. That's advertising the feature.

I bought my PS3 partly because I could run Linux on it. However, it doesn't matter anymore, I kept my Other OS and I'm not buying anything else from Sony.

Re:I bought a psjailbreak device to repair my ps3

[Pikoro]

Sony OtherOS Manual

Re:I bought a psjailbreak device to repair my ps3

[Anonymous Coward]

.. except on the box, as a bullet point, under Features.

Re:I bought a psjailbreak device to repair my ps3

[Erinnys Tisiphone]

I couldn't agree more. They ought to have *rented* the boxes out like 1970s telephones if they wanted to attempt this business model. Its funny. I had intended to buy a PS3 until the Other OS lock down. I considered it again once that was dealt with. But now, their heads are so far up their arses I don't want to give them a dime. Glad to hear their market share is still terrible.

Re:I bought a psjailbreak device to repair my ps3

[Anonymous Coward]

Why does Slashdot allow some poster to submit a corrupted, virus haunted link?

Re:I bought a psjailbreak device to repair my ps3

[Anonymous Coward]

Show me an actual SCEfoo paid advertisement featuring OtherOS

It's right on the box mine came in.

Re:I bought a psjailbreak device to repair my ps3

[Anonymous Coward]

It was clearly listed on the box and in the PS3 manual.

Re:I bought a psjailbreak device to repair my ps3

[Ant P.]

The malware-on-audio-CDs debacle was enough for me. I had no intention of ever buying a PS3 knowing the sort of people behind it.

Re:I bought a psjailbreak device to repair my ps3

[xero314]

I bought a PS3 to run linux and play around with cell programming...Sony broke my ps3 by updating the firmware to 3.30

I'm not going to defend Sony, because really I think what they are doing is stupid, but lets be honest here. Sony did not break your PS3. You were not forced to update your firm ware, you chose to. You broke your PS3. Now had you purchased the PS3 to play games and run linux you would have some argument, but even then it was your choice.

I bought my PS3 to play PS1, PS2 and PS3 games. Because my launch unit broke, not by any choice of my own but by poor craftsmanship, and I chose not to pay for a refurbished unit, I now can't play PS2 games. Is that Sony's fault? Not really. The unit lasted way past the warranty period and I chose not to pay to keep the feature. Sure the Other OS is different, but lets be honest, it was still your choice to lose the Other OS option, which is pretty stupid since you bought your PS three "to run linux and play around with cell programming".

Re:I bought a psjailbreak device to repair my ps3

[Erinnys Tisiphone]

Absolutely. They just create PR disaster after PR disaster at their customers' expense.

Re:I bought a psjailbreak device to repair my ps3

[Anonymous Coward]

I bought a PS3 to run linux and play around with cell programming...

Sony broke my ps3 by updating the firmware to 3.30

Every other person who bought a PS3 should go sue the company for blocking an advertised feature. That should teach them a couple of lessons. Including "DONT PLAY WITH THE GEEK'S HEART".

Re:I bought a psjailbreak device to repair my ps3

[Bert64]

Actually, it was my brother who updated the machine by trying to play one of his games...

But it's far from unreasonable that someone would want to use a machine they bought to carry out the features it advertises (on the box no less).

Re:I bought a psjailbreak device to repair my ps3

[theaceoffire]

See it is crap like this that pisses me off.

"SONY BROKE MY CONSOLE, THEY ARE EVIL!"

"Oh well, if I was being honest, they only restricted it if I wanted to use newer games and or online services, and my brother agreed to those terms and upgraded, but everyone was ranting on Sony and I thought hey, it is THEIR fault that I let my brother do that!"

Slashdot is so willing to bash Sony, it is ridiculous. Sony is the ONLY CONSOLE MAKER to EVER allow install your own OS, and they let you do anything on that... until a hacker started bragging about how he was going to make it easy to copy $60 video games, video games that are the ONLY REASON the console is being sold at such a loss.

Does Microsoft allow custom OS installation? No. Would Microsoft delete features that allow you to copy games? Yes. Would Microsoft lie to customers for years as their consoles die at 33% or higher rates until forced to fix it? Yes. Yet I don't hear the same outrage at "I sold you shit in a box and tried to keep the money" as I do with "I am trying to keep you from stealing my only source of profit on this damn box.".

Seriously, some of you guys need to get your priorities back in check. Remember the PSP? Hacked 99 ways to Sunday? Since then games being released for it have plummeted because of how easy it is for non-techies to hack. If hackers make game backup easy and simple, EVERYONE loses EXCEPT for hackers and home-brewers.

So yeah, sorry that your brother upgraded your console and you are pissed at Sony for it.

Go back to your hating.

Re:I bought a psjailbreak device to repair my ps3

[Bert64]

When the device was originally bought, we had no reason to believe that at some point in the future you would need to make a permanent irreversible choice as to which of the systems features you want to keep using. I've never been forced to make such choices with any other device. Noone is complaining that ps3 firmware 3.42 blocks the current jailbreak exploit either, that was just a bugfix, intentionally disabling advertised features which were present when the unit was purchased and could have influenced that purchasing decision is quite another.

MS just sell a shoddy product, thousands of companies do this and MS is well known for selling shoddy products, at least the xbox offers a warranty unlike most of their other products - if it dies during the warranty period you just return it, i've had this happen and had no problems getting the unit replaced. If it fails out of warranty you're on your own, just like you would be with any other product.

MS have not removed features, they have fixed bugs which facilitated homebrew but that's entirely different, those bugs were never meant to be there in the first place.

As for the PSP, the nintendo DS is even easier to hack (just buy a $20 cart for it, slot it in) and yet seems to be doing just fine, the iphone and android are easy to hack and pirate games on, and yet mobile gaming is a fast growing market. The argument that piracy hurts the platform is a shaky one at best, for instance the amiga was hugely successful as a gaming platform in europe precisely because the games were easy to pirate... Compared to their counterparts on other platforms (eg cartridge based consoles) where piracy was harder, amiga owners typically had a similar number of purchased games and an additional large stack of pirated ones. Without piracy, amiga owners would have had a similar number of purchased games, but there would have been a lot less amiga owners. As i recall, the psp has a rather poor marketshare and is therefore unattractive to games publishers.

Speaking of "bragging about how he was going to make it easy to copy $60 video games", well that seems to have happened anyway, the ps3 is now much easier to hack than the xbox and its much easier to copy the games (and far more convenient because you don't have to mess with burning media).

Re:I bought a psjailbreak device to repair my ps3

[Bert64]

Put it another way - an obligatory car analogy, if ford sold you a car 3 years ago and now came back and said "You must make a choice, either you can keep your current gearbox but it will only let you drive in reverse, or you can upgrade to the new gearbox which will let you drive forwards but won't let you drive in reverse ever again." how would you feel?

And yes this situation is ridiculous, because noone would stand for this kind of shit from a car manufacturer, and noone would think twice about installing an aftermarket transmission to restore full functionality... Why should games consoles be treated any differently?

Remember,

[Anonymous Coward]

You make it a sony!

The public is Never Gonna Give Sony Up

[tepples]

why do people still buy ANYTHING Sony?

Sony owns RCA Records, the record label that published a song by Rick Astley. Sony also makes movies, including the Spider-Man movies. (And before you object that these are separate divisions, the division that makes TV sets is likewise separate from the Computer Entertainment division that makes PlayStation products.)

Re:The public is Never Gonna Give Sony Up

[WCMI92]

Sony owns RCA Records, the record label that published a song by Rick Astley [wikipedia.org]. Sony also makes movies, including the Spider-Man movies [wikipedia.org]. (And before you object that these are separate divisions, the division that makes TV sets is likewise separate from the Computer Entertainment division that makes PlayStation products.)

I've never seen the Spiderman movies (superhero turned into love story doesn't appeal to me at all), and I don't own very much music made after 1993, as pretty much everything that's been coming out the last 15+ years (and especially recently) is creatively bankrupt crap.

So, no, Sony doesn't get much, if any of my money.

Re:The public is Never Gonna Give Sony Up

[Narishma]

So?
You asked why are people still buying from Sony and he gave you a few reasons. They make popular movies, music and games. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant.

Re:The public is Never Gonna Give Sony Up

[Anonymous Coward]

...and I don't own very much music made after 1993, as pretty much everything that's been coming out the last 15+ years (and especially recently) is creatively bankrupt crap.

Ha, no, you just got old. Ask your parents about your choice in music.

Re:The public is Never Gonna Give Sony Up

[Anonymous Coward]

[I don't own very much music made after 1993, as pretty much everything that's been coming out the last 15+ years (and especially recently) is creatively bankrupt crap.]...

And this is why we have all the "rock" stations which are owned by Clearchannel playing the same 50 songs, the last of which was made in 1995 over and over again.

1993 is long past. Kids born back then are graduating high school, and in a couple years will be legally able to drink in the US. There are a lot of new bands worth listening to. It is just that the big radio conglomerate which owns every station in most cities won't bother playing them because it means paying license fees.

Expand your mind a bit; hit Pandora, type in some of your moldy oldies and make a station. See what new albums are out since 386 DX machines were the dream of all PC people.

Not all musicians are all record label shills these days, and there are a lot of bands worth listening to.

Re:The public is Never Gonna Give Sony Up

[karnal]

You forgot to tell me to get off your lawn.

You cheat, you get punched in the face

[tepples]

what everyone seems to be forgetting is that there is a multiplayer component to consider.

So you've connected four SIXAXIS or Dual Shock 3 controllers to your PS3, and you've invited friends over. If you turn on a cheat that boosts all players, then everyone cheats with you. (Compare the built-in cheats in Goldeneye 007 for Nintendo 64.) If you turn on a cheat that helps you over the other players, you get punched in the face.

I don't know if any of these hacks can or are being used in any online components of any games

Would it be cheating to add a custom map to all players' machines and then play on that map?

Re:You cheat, you get punched in the face

[Narishma]

He was obviously talking about online play. And yes it could be cheating in some games where you earn ranks or whatever by playing. If you make a custom map for earning them easily that's cheating. Just look at what happens with Team Fortress 2 on the PC with all the leveling maps out there.

Re:You cheat, you get punched in the face

[tepples]

He was obviously talking about online play.

In the case of online play, where you have a separate machine for each player, what advantage does a PS3 have over a PC?

Re:You cheat, you get punched in the face

[Anonymous Coward]

Just look at what happens with Team Fortress 2 on the PC with all the leveling maps out there.

Perhaps you could choose a better example, as there's no "leveling" to be done in Team Fortress 2. There might be achievement grinding servers, but given the amount of stuff that can't be earned through achievements, the fact that they lowered the barrier to obtaining items by achievements significantly over the years, and how you can still get those items by random drops anyway, those servers are more than a bit useless nowadays.

You ARE aware the "Level X Weapon" indicators on the weapons is nothing more than a joke, right?

Re:You cheat, you get punched in the face

[Narishma]

I meant grinding for achievements.

Re:You cheat, you get punched in the face

[Narishma]

I (and the guy you were replying to) didn't say anything about the PC so I don't know where that came from. It's off-topic, but if you want to discuss that the PS3, like the other consoles, has the advantages over the PC that it's cheaper and has fixed hardware so you know any game you buy for it will work.

Re:You cheat, you get punched in the face

[tepples]

I (and the guy you were replying to) didn't say anything about the PC so I don't know where that came from.

I think it has something to do with suggestions in comments to past articles that people who want to use homebrew on a modern console should vote with their money against consoles and instead make and use programs for the PC because it's open.

irony much?

[kj_kabaje]

PS3break.com has a splash telling you not to buy the fake PS3break.

I don't own a PS3 but MY responce would be...

[BlackBloq]

It's mine, I bought it, Now go fuck yourself assholes! Who the fuck do they think they are? To fuck with stuff you bought legally? Come to my house plaaaeeze. Truspassers wull be shot!

What is with you losers?

[Anonymous Coward]

What exactly is wrong about any of this? Don't you think Sony has seen what happens to a platform when it gets broken open like happened on the PSP? You think they'll just sit back and not do anything while it happens to the PS3? Get real... They've found that if you let people have access to a moderate level of "Home Brew" creation ability, some assholes will use that ability to enable massive piracy, just because they can. So now there's nothing. Live with it.

The PS3 isn't perfect by any means, but at least Sony allows a lot more concessions than MS does...

Blame people like Geohot for fucking this all up and springing the mousetrap, not Sony for trying to meet you fuckers half way and not being such super geniuses to allow home brew but not piracy at the same time.

It saddens me that /. is so quick to jump on Sony for this. What EXACTLY should they have done?

Re:What is with you losers?

[Joe U]

What exactly is wrong about any of this?

Sony: 90% of the people who buy this will copy games. You bought one, so you must copy games. We will fine you and take the dongle from you without a trial. If you want to fight it, that will cost at least $10,000 in legal fees.

Car Analogy -
Police: 90% of the people who drive down this street buy drugs, you drove down this street, so you must have bought drugs, we will fine you and take your car without a trial. If you want to fight it, that will cost at least $10,000 in legal fees.

See the problem?

What EXACTLY should they have done?

Design an open system without copy protection, raised the price of the console slightly and drop the price of the games to $20.

Re:What is with you losers?

[znerk]

Sharpie markers can be used to "enable piracy".
Should we ban Sharpies? Sony has been freaking out over ridiculous stuff for years, and it's high time they get punched in the mouth for it (figuratively speaking, of course).

As for "OtherOS" enabling piracy, it wasn't until after it was removed that the various hacker groups really started trying to crack the PS3.

I blame Sony for everything they have done, whether it was "in reaction to those hackers", or just their own dim-witted execs trying to come up with ways to steal more money from their customers.

When are consumers going to learn? Sony has a long track record of screwing their customers... When Amazon ganked books from the Kindle, there was a public outcry. When Blizzard starts banning people from single-player mode for using cheats in single-player mode, there is an outcry. When Sony fucks their customer base over and over again, some stupid Sony apologist comes out and says "What did you expect?" I agree; What did we expect? Sony has proven over and over again that they cannot be trusted, that they cannot be ethical, and that they do not deserve our money.

And yet morons like you continue to hand it to them. I hope you like how far they're bending you over, and I hope you like the treatment you receive for trying to use one of their products (regardless of whether it's the "intended use").
(Side note: The warranty disclaims that there even is an "intended use".)

For myself, I just refuse to knowingly give them any money. I don't buy DVD movies anymore, in case Sony has their fingers in the producing company. I don't buy CD audio anymore, because I don't want to wonder if I'm going to be infected by the "DRM" on the disk. I don't buy Sony electronics products, because I can't trust them to perform as advertised - and even if they do what they're supposed to today, Sony has proven that their products may not operate that way tomorrow.

I would cheerfully watch Sony go down in flames. I hope their executives starve.

Disclaimer: I am not advocating violence against anyone, merely enraged that Sony still exists, after all the legal shenanigans they have pulled. I might actually be persuaded to knowingly piss on a Sony executive, were he or she actually and visibly on fire.

Re:What is with you losers?

[Khisanth Magus]

Design an open system without copy protection, raised the price of the console slightly and drop the price of the games to $20.

Wait....what? Are you serious? So developers are no longer allowed to recoup the millions of $ they are spending developing games? Either the company that made it, the company that published it, or the company that sold it are going to make no money if you try and sell the game for that cheap, or at least not enough to justify it.

Re:What is with you losers?

[Hatta]

Don't you think Sony has seen what happens to a platform when it gets broken open like happened on the PSP?

Like more people buying PSPs than would have otherwise?

They've found that if you let people have access to a moderate level of "Home Brew" creation ability, some assholes will use that ability to enable massive piracy, just because they can.

If you don't let people have access to a moderate level of home brew creation ability, some assholes will enable massive piracy just because they can. Since piracy is going to happen either way, might as well let people use the devices they own the way they choose.

Live with it.

Exactly what Sony should be doing.

Re:What is with you losers?

[Hatta]

Developers are not compelled to invest in creating any specific game, and they are not entitled to profit if they choose to. I am however entitled, if not by law by any reasonable sense of justice, to full and complete control over my own property. My right to actual property that I own is not trumped by their desire to profit. If that means no more mega million dollar blockbuster games, that's OK. Securing a little extra profit for some developers today is not worth destroying the meaning of the property rights we've enjoyed for centuries.

Re:What is with you losers?

[toriver]

Design an open system without copy protection, raised the price of the console slightly and drop the price of the games to $20.

You know, if there actually was a demand for this in the marketplace, and a way to do what you describe profitably, someone would have done so by now.

Then I compare FreeCiv to Civilization V and know why not.

Re:What is with you losers?

[Anonymous Coward]

Design an open system without copy protection, raised the price of the console slightly [...]

Slightly?!? You ARE aware that the only reason consoles are as cheap as they are is because the rest of the cost they eat (Wii excluded) is effectively subsidized by developers paying licensing fees, right? And that developers wouldn't pay said licensing fees if the parent company didn't give any assurance of protecting their IP, which would remove the discounted nature of the console, right? And that without said deep cost reduction, these consoles wouldn't be any cheaper than equivalent PC hardware, which, in turn, already IS an open system insofar as game development is concerned? And can already be hooked up to a large-screen TV (HDMI outputs exist for computers now) and can have multiple controller inputs via USB or BlueTooth if you want?

I'm not saying I wouldn't want an open-system console to mess with. I'm saying we already have one, and it's called your computer.

Re:What is with you losers?

[Joe U]

You know, if there actually was a demand for this in the marketplace, and a way to do what you describe profitably, someone would have done so by now.

Of course there's a demand, the problem up until about 2009 was distribution. That's slowly changing for the PC market, but it's much more difficult for the console market. You want to sell at GameStop or WalMart, you have to deal with a major player. So, your title shows up with EA or someone similar.

Why do you think Apple wants to totally control ipod/pad/phone distibution?

Then I compare FreeCiv to Civilization V and know why not.

Yes, because an open market without restrictions means a small project like FreeCiv and not something like World of Goo. Which sells for $20 and did damn well.

Re:What is with you losers?

[Joe U]

You ARE aware that the only reason consoles are as cheap as they are is because the rest of the cost they eat (Wii excluded) is effectively subsidized by developers paying licensing fees, right?

Subsidization is a mistake. I think having a console with a low entry point to development would bring in money as well.

I'm saying we already have one, and it's called your computer.

The 12 year old who wants to play xbox games doesn't want a computer. That would require thought.

The console has two advantages, the platform doesn't change for the life of the console and the interface is consistent.

Re:What is with you losers?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm guessing that you don't buy movies or cd's anymore... but you probably can't live without them completely... so it's likely this is your 'reason' for downloading them off of bittorrent. Stick it to the man, I don't support your ways!! Oh, new Thundercats episode!! Awesome... steal....

Re:What is with you losers?

[Anonymous Coward]

Subsidization is a mistake. I think having a console with a low entry point to development would bring in money as well.

I think that was tried with things like the many iterations of the GP32X (or whatever it was called), and that never got out of really really niche use. Sure, it has its passionately devoted fanbase, but outside of that, nothing much to speak of. No audience, no money to be had, nobody wants to make stuff for it. Afraid that path's been traveled.

The 12 year old who wants to play xbox games doesn't want a computer. That would require thought.

Try playing online PC games where you can communicate with the other players sometime. You will find there is absolutely no shortage of 12-year-old brats who wish to show off both their desire and ability to avoid as much cerebral activity as possible on that platform.

The console has two advantages, the platform doesn't change for the life of the console and the interface is consistent.

I'll grant you the consistent interface part, as will anyone who has had to put up with crappy PC ports of console games, but the "platform doesn't change" part is just as much a liability as it is an advantage. "You always know what you're coding for" is one side of the argument, and "you CAN'T improve the hardware without a major revision" is another.

Re:What is with you losers?

[Mathinker]

> Design an open system without copy protection, raised the price of the console slightly and drop the price of the games to $20.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3#Sales_and_production_costs and understand the idiocy of Sony's business model for the PS3. There was no way they could have raised the price "slightly".

Re:What is with you losers?

[Joe U]

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3#Sales_and_production_costs and understand the idiocy of Sony's business model for the PS3. There was no way they could have raised the price "slightly".

Yes, there's no way Sony could have done that with the design of the PS3. I didn't say 'design the PS3' I said 'design an open system'.

The Wii doesn't follow the Sony model, is very successful and nets Nintendo a profit on every unit sold.

Re:What is with you losers?

[Mathinker]

> on every unit sold

and even more if you include all of the specialty controllers. A much better business model until matter duplicators come around. :-)

Guess that make my decision easier

[HunterA3]

Use to think that Microsoft was the evil company and I'd never buy a 360. Glad I didn't buy either the 360 or the PS3. Though if I was a hardcore gamer, I'd have to say that this makes the 360 look a heck of a lot more enticing than the PS3. Congratulations Sony, you managed to find a way to kill off the PS3 faster than any would-be hacker

Will sony sue the air force over there use of ps3

[Joe The Dragon]

Will sony sue the air force over there use of ps3 for non gameing / PS3 media use?

Will sony try to say you are braking the EULA by not installing the update that removers other os?

Sony == POS consumer hardware

[flyingfsck]

In my humble experience, 3 out of 3 pieces of Sony kit I bought were pieces of shit and ended up in a landfill. I have bought other pices of junk kit from other manufacturers too, but they did not have the overblown price and brand name and not 3 from the same brand were bad either. So I don't buy Sony kit anymore. Nuff sed.

Buying one of these devices is stupid

[jonwil]

Buying one of these devices is stupid when there are ways to accomplish exactly the same thing from any number of devices that Sony can't ban, restrict or block including at least one model of calculator.

Re:Buying one of these devices is stupid

[Theoboley]

Which is well and good, if you have these devices. I've got no use for the T-84 calculator that is touted to be able to jailbreak the ps3, outside of the fact that it can do so. I already have a cellphone, which isn't capable of doing it. I've got an MP3 player, once again, not capable.

My option would be to either A. Buy one of these Keys, or B. Buy an AMTEL board, and program it myself with PSGroove.

Overall Point - The Key is a cheaper option, unless you already have the items that are PS3 jailbreak capable.

1 Dongle for me please

[deadcrow]

I'm going to buy a dongle now! And I don't own a PS3. Eat that Sony!

This is totally unfair

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a PS-ONE, you insensitive clods!

Coincidentally.....

[Anonymous Coward]

There were no jailbrakes until shortly after they pulled "Other OS"

So, instead of restore that feature and see how it effects the motivations of jailbrakers, they spend millions on lawsuits.

Like if this stuff would work in EU

[jbssm]

This is EU, people are not afraid of these stupid actions in here. Nobody goes bankrupt for having to go to trial to defend themselves in here. So if they want to sue, let them sue. In the end most of the courts in here will force Sony to pay the court and representation fees to the persons they are suing when they lose.

Last round for Sony

[Daniel Phillips]

I only bought a PS3 so that I would not have to run games on Windows. There have been many issues, including three returns for repair of defective components, two just out of warranty. The operating system is limited and buggy. The browser sucks beyond belief. Sony has been horrible to deal with at every step. PS3 hardware now falls well behind budget PC hardware. After this PS3 it is back to PC gaming for me, and exclusively on Linux. By the time this PS3 is ready for the scrapheap there will be plenty of A list titles available on Linux, and plenty of mature free and open projects.

Byebye in advance, Sony.

Re:Last round for Sony

[ADRA]

"three returns for repair of defective components, two just out of warranty"
Ouch, I feel for you. That's a real shame.

"The operating system is limited and buggy"
I've never really experienced bugs (I'm a relatively new PS3 owner through), but limited is by design. It's not a general purpose computer.

"The browser sucks beyond belief. "
It sure does --> Horrible, abomination that might as well be removed at how poor it is

"Sony has been horrible to deal with at every step"
*shrugs* I can't really say how they'd be better at things. DLNA support in the PS3 is realtively solid for my uses these days, so that makes me happy. They've also released new BluRay features for free instead of charging for them, so they've done that right.

"PS3 hardware now falls well behind budget PC hardware"
That was bound to happen by its nature. The fact that PC gaming's level of innovation has cooled somewhat means that this happened a lot later than I would have expected.

Re:Last round for Sony

[Daniel Phillips]

The fact that PC gaming's level of innovation has cooled somewhat means that this happened a lot later than I would have expected.

Don't confuse the slowdown in PC game innovation with advances in PC graphics hardware. The latter has continued at its usual pace, or faster if anything. Microsoft's control of the PC game software development toolchain has been a huge wet blanket. Expect that to change in the not too distant future with the resurgence of OpenGL in the cross platform development segment. Another emerging factor is the indie segment, long suppressed by the market dominance of industry giants like EA, it now has access to distribution channels that can't be blocked by the usual axis of compliant retailers and Microsoft toadies.

Stay away from Sony

[Anonymous Coward]

After Sony put out their rootkit, I vowed never to buy from them again. And I have not.

Yet another reason to boycott ALL Sony products

[m509272]

Ever since that rootkit crap Sony pulled some years ago I will not buy any Sony products. Here's yet another example of essentially illegal activity on their part. We have options to buy non-Sony products for most of the electronics and optical computer drives we use so join the boycott.

Re:Yet another reason to boycott ALL Sony products

[ilsaloving]

I've done so as well. However, there are so many people out there who continue to buy sony, that a boycott will never happen. So I've resigned myself to schadenfreude instead.

Sony has been in the news regularly as a result of their hostile behaviour. Anyone who buys a Sony product and then has the audacity to be indignant about it, are not deserving of sympathy.

Allow me to Explain.

[Petersko]

"Hell, one lady I was dating said I didn't act like a boyfriend, I guess I should have slapped her around some, but I don't need that kind of relationship."

Allow me to interpret. What she really was saying was, "You're bad at sex, and not attentive enough to my moods to make me forgive you for it." Mystery solved.

Re:Allow me to Explain.

[bornagainpenguin]

"Hell, one lady I was dating said I didn't act like a boyfriend, I guess I should have slapped her around some, but I don't need that kind of relationship."

Allow me to interpret. What she really was saying was, "You're bad at sex, and not attentive enough to my moods to make me forgive you for it." Mystery solved.

Nice bit of shaming language you did there, unfortunately we're wise to that kind of thing now....

The Catalogue of Anti-Male Shaming Tactics:

Charge of Unattractiveness (Code Tan) – The Ugly Tan Charge

Discussion: The target is accused of having no romantic potential as far as women are concerned. Examples:

* “I bet you are fat and ugly.”

* “You can’t get laid!”

* “Creep!”

* “Loser!”

* “Have you thought about the problem being you?”

Response: This is another example of “circumstantial ad hominem.” The target’s romantic potential ultimately does not reflect on the merit of his arguments.

No the "lady" in question wasn't talking about the guy, she was admitting she's a typical bitch in search of another "bad boy" who is willing to slap her around. Most real men aren't desperate enough to do that sort of thing and find it repulsive. They walk away.

The same thing that seems to be happening with Sony come to think of it...

Re:Allow me to Explain.

[mcgrew]

What she really was saying was, "You're bad at sex, and not attentive enough to my moods to make me forgive you for it."

You can fake an orgasm, but you can't fake a pussyfart.

No the "lady" in question wasn't talking about the guy, she was admitting she's a typical bitch in search of another "bad boy" who is willing to slap her around. Most real men aren't desperate enough to do that sort of thing and find it repulsive. They walk away.

The same thing that seems to be happening with Sony come to think of it...

My point exactly.

Remember the Sony NET MD recorder...

[Anonymous Coward]

from about 10 years ago? It was a personal MiniDisk recorder with a USB interface to allow you to transfer mp3 files from your computer to minidisk? I had bought one and found that it implemented a particularly mindless form of DRM, and was sloooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwww as well. Needless to say, it went back and I got a Sharp device instead (no USB, but I'd gone off the idea completely by then!).

What I mean to say is that I stopped buying Sony then; the rootkits and anti-consumer attitude of the company just makes it easier and easier to say NO.

Sony is just up to it's old game

[ften]

See http://www.lik-sang.com/. Sony lied about the the products they were importing and sued them in multipul courts at the same time to stop them from selling a product (The PSP before Sony started selling it in Europe) that they really didn't have a legal right to stop, so this is old hat to Sony. Thats right, I'm still bitter 4 years later as no site has come along that is half as good for imports then Lik-Sang was. Screw Sony.

Re:Sony is just up to it's old game

[IronSight]

Sooo right. Lik-sang was a great retailer. They didn't sell the illegal stuff at all. Legit import games you couldn't buy in other countries and specialty hardware for linux users. Last thing I bought from them was a set of xbox usb cables so I could use my keyboard and mouse in linux. Luckily there is playasia now to fill their shoes if you want your imports, but lik-sang didn't deserve that treatment at all.

Nintendo is cool about this stuff

[Anonymous Coward]

Sony's kneejerk reaction seems quite dramatic in contrast to the reaction (or lack thereof) by nintendo to homebrew on the Wii:

The Twilight Hack was blocked by them in firmware 4.0+, but they actually ADDED the ability to install the Homebrew Channel (which can run various backup launchers that run gamecube and wii backups. There is also the Wad Installer that can install Wiiware games.) without having to own a copy of Twilight Princess (Bannerbomb). Nintendo Wii piracy and homebrew has been rampant for years, and they seem to have turned a blind eye on it. (The bannerbomb exploit has been available since May 2009, and still works on the latest firmware. (despite multiple firmware updates from nintendo since the initial release) Wiibrew, Hackmii and Bannerbomb websites are still online.)

Neener

[Anonymous Coward]

This is what you idiots get for wasting your money on game consoles, then wasting even more money and valuable time fucking around with them. Spend that money on a gym membership, some decent clothes, and a social life instead.

Re:Neener

[neminem]

Wait, you can buy a social life now? Where do you shop for those, I'm interested.

epic fail sony!

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks Sony! I didn't know about this USB stick until now. I was just searching for something like this yesterday. Epic fail

The law's double standards...

[IronSight]

...are getting far fetched. You can legally hack on your apple products, but if you do the same *exact* thing on a ps3 you get sent to court? This law either needs to get pulled or fixed to say, you can "Jailbreak" any hardware device you can buy regardless of EULA/TOS/Whatever. Telling me how to use something in my house though doesn't get me to buy your product personally. Xbox 360 banned around 1 million 360's over christmas and still get hacked. They don't bring the users to court, and they have a pretty huge user base. Instead of spending all R&D time on dropping features and setting up ways to sue people, they let you hack your system, and if you decide to get caught in the ban wave, you get your box banned (though not your live account). You buy a new box and start it over again, so a huge base buys new consoles every so often. I personally did "mod" my old xbox1 just to run gentoox (gentoox.shallax.com) and xbmc on it, and I bought about 45 games for it to play on the side for around 50 a piece on it. Didn't pirate one game. But the pirates ruin it for the rest of the homebrewers. I'm almost pretty sure that if otheros was patched to stop the exploit that was being worked on instead of ripped out, all those people wouldn't be mad enough to try to hack their machines to perhaps find a way to downgrade their firmware or find a way to run linux without restrictions. I personally gave up on the console scenes though. I don't like to affiliate with people that are only out to steal software when all I want to do is mess around with homebrew or something. And since I picked up a pretty decent laptop, I can do all the hacking on source I want in real linux and not have to be accused by some company of being a thief or worry about the sony ninja's trying to sue.