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Sony Gets Nasty With PSBreak Buyers
YokimaSun writes "The war between hackers and Sony over the PlayStation 3 has now taken an even more sinister turn, with Sony going after not just shops but actual buyers of the PSBreak dongle, threatening them with fines of many thousands of Euros and forcing them to sign cease-and-desist letters. It seems Sony will use any means necessary to thwart both homebrew and piracy on the PS3."
"Sony is now requesting every buyer to transfer the rights to request the package back from customs over to Sony Computer Entertainment and to agree on the destruction of the device." Only happening in Germany, and likely has to do with lenient laws there that would allow it.
I am scientifically inaccurate.
A PS3, I mean.
It's not really a principled stand, but it could become one.
I don't believe in time. It's a grand conspiracy designed to sell watches.
I'm selling - cheap - kits for creative ways to eliminate lawyers (and best selling kit so far is all chainsaw + jason mask)
It's only me who have the impression that lawyers are going crazy? What most lack happen, someone wanting to sue humanity to breathe without a contract for this?
Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
Are Sony seriously going to sue people for not handing over their legal property to Sony?
What is it with this company? Just how far up their own arses can they go?
How do they expect this to work?
Sure you can sue if they use trademarked names like "Sony" or "PS3", but a dongle with a name like "Freedom" and containing no code or hardware copyrighted by Sony cannot be stopped.
Yes, it is a device to circumvent copy protection but far from all European countries have laws banning such devices, and once they're in a European country the device can be moved freely to other countries.
I would buy such a device, mostly just to spite Sony and their megalomania.
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) --
This rash of crazy lawyer stories leads me to believe we are in a law suit Bubble. Eventually garbage law suits, Cease and Desists, threats, extra will come to an end bursting the bubble lawyers have grown so accustom to.
If Sony didn't plan for this in the beginning, then I understand why they have resorted to this as a last gasp. That means there was a major hole in their business plan.
Sony once held the mindshare Apple has now. For me, so many Sony items have had problems, that they are off my radar.
The world moves on and a major player must move ahead of it, or at least with it or it dies. I just don't get the concept of a company suing the retail consumers of its hardware.
Why oh why is it so difficult for companies to allow the end user to use their devices to the fullest extent possible?
So that they can squeeze more money out of developers. If homebrew were easy, or even as easy as it is on iPod touch, iPhone, and iPad, major labels would develop and sell their games through the homebrew path to market to cut overhead.
HOW ABOUT THIS: why not allow for home brew, but prevent media copying?
Allowing homebrew will inevitably result in media copying. This could be through cloning of patented games (such as Dance Dance Revolution), through cloning of games on whose rules the developer makes a flimsy copyright claim (such as Tetris), or through infringing ROM images that run on homebrew emulators.
It's only me who have the impression that lawyers are going crazy?
Behind every sleazy lawyer is a sleazier client. Blame Sony, and vote with your money. That's one reason why I have a Philips TV, stereo, and DVD recorder in the room where I'm typing this.
Sure you can sue if they use trademarked names like "Sony" or "PS3", but a dongle with a name like "Freedom"
And in countries with sane trademark law, nominative use to specify compatible products made by other companies is not an infringement: "FREEDOM service tool by TropeCo, for use with PLAYSTATION 3 console by Sony".
and containing no code or hardware copyrighted by Sony
Sony can claim non-literal copying. But even in the U.S., whose Digital Millennium Copyright Act is widely thought on Slashdot to be stricter than its European counterparts, copying small pieces of code solely for interoperability has been shown not to infringe. Sega v. Accolade; Lexmark v. Static Control Components.
What Sony should do is open up a sandbox environment in the PS3 in which homebrew developers can run their own software without problems.
It did, until the slim PS3 came out and Sony left out the Other OS drivers to cut cost. Then the first hints of cracks came out with the stated goal of reenabling Other OS on the slim PS3, and Sony pushed out PS3 system software 3.21 to shut them down on the original PS3. Then the cat and mouse game started in earnest.
I don't see why piracy and homebrew are always treated as one by these console developers.
I explained the rationale against homebrew in another comment.
I don't own a PS3 nor any other Sony product
I find that highly unlikely. Search your CD collection for Columbia Records or Epic Records, then search your VHS and/or DVD collection for Columbia Pictures or TriStar Pictures.
Really? After so many years of producing shit that they can't even sell TV's (something Sony used to be famous for making the best) under their own name anymore, why do people still buy ANYTHING Sony?
The premise of threatening OWNERS of a piece of hardware for doing with that hardware whatever they please, which they have the absolute right to do (including burning it or running over it with the car) is ridiculous. And if someone is finally going to be stupid enough to sue a customer over violating a shrinkwrap, unilateral, "we reserve the right to change anything at any time at our SOLE discretion" EULA, please, PLEASE for the love of God let it be a company as stupid, corrupt and intellectually bankrupt as Sony.
Threatening end users who make modifications to the console that they PURCHASED is as ridiculous as Ford suing me for buying one of their cars then changing the rims so I can put a different size of tire on them...
Corporatism != Free Market
When Sony removed the "Other OS" option from the PS3 they locked people out of a legitimate and relatively safe homebrew environment. Somewhere that people could play with the device without voiding their warranty. It was an option that really "sold" the device to many people who now own one.
While someone would have eventually jail-broken the device, I doubt it would be as widely used as these dongles are; if Sony had (a) left the "Other OS" option in, and (b) possibly added said-option to the "slim" PS3 consoles. The way to combat people jail-braking a device is to give them a safe way to homebrew without the possibility of bricking their consoles or voiding the warranty.
Their business model is to sell the console at a loss or break-even, then make their profits from license fees on the games. If people buy consoles to convert into homebrew computers, but never buy any games, tbey make a loss. the are not particularly worried about people who buy lots of games /and/ use it for homebrew, they are worried about people who buy it for homebrew only.
Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
I bought a PS3 to run linux and play around with cell programming...
Sony broke my ps3 by updating the firmware to 3.30, so i bought a dongle which i intend to use to repair the otherwise broken system:
http://www.ps3hax.net/2010/10/asbestos-running-linux-as-gameos/
All i'm doing, is fixing advertised functionality which was present in the ps3 when i bought it.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
why do people still buy ANYTHING Sony?
Sony owns RCA Records, the record label that published a song by Rick Astley. Sony also makes movies, including the Spider-Man movies. (And before you object that these are separate divisions, the division that makes TV sets is likewise separate from the Computer Entertainment division that makes PlayStation products.)
what everyone seems to be forgetting is that there is a multiplayer component to consider.
So you've connected four SIXAXIS or Dual Shock 3 controllers to your PS3, and you've invited friends over. If you turn on a cheat that boosts all players, then everyone cheats with you. (Compare the built-in cheats in Goldeneye 007 for Nintendo 64.) If you turn on a cheat that helps you over the other players, you get punched in the face.
I don't know if any of these hacks can or are being used in any online components of any games
Would it be cheating to add a custom map to all players' machines and then play on that map?
Do you watch TV? then you support sony as almost ALL tv shows are produced with either a Sony editing system (Sony OWNS the live TV editing market... Daily Show and Colbert Report are on Sony gear for live editing and switching...) shot on Sony cameras or are on cameras that use the Sony AVCHD format. Most of Discovery Channel now shoots on AVCHD cameras as digital delivery to cheap sd cards is better than the tape alternative.
So stop watching TV as well, as that supports Sony. (a different division that has nothing to do with the others, but it's still "Sony")
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
PS3break.com has a splash telling you not to buy the fake PS3break.
It's mine, I bought it, Now go fuck yourself assholes! Who the fuck do they think they are? To fuck with stuff you bought legally? Come to my house plaaaeeze. Truspassers wull be shot!
So stop watching TV as well, as that supports Sony. (a different division that has nothing to do with the others, but it's still "Sony")
There is no such thing as a different division that has nothing to do with the others. They're all Sony. Criticising all of Sony for the actions of any of its portions is as rational as criticising a person for the actions of any of their limbs. People who don't have control over one or more limbs have a responsibility to keep them under control by any means necessary... straps, chains, whatever.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I'm all for using my products as I see fit, but there's a dark side to the PSBreak for me, and that's cheating on online games. I don't really care about the piracy or Sony's bottom line. But I do know back in the dark ages of online play when people got aimbots in Quake3, online play really started to suck, and I lost interest in the game really quickly. That undermining of the level playing field that makes online play fun is a bigger threat to Sony's bottom line than piracy or people doing protein folding when the console is idle.
Sheldon
Use to think that Microsoft was the evil company and I'd never buy a 360. Glad I didn't buy either the 360 or the PS3. Though if I was a hardcore gamer, I'd have to say that this makes the 360 look a heck of a lot more enticing than the PS3. Congratulations Sony, you managed to find a way to kill off the PS3 faster than any would-be hacker
Will sony sue the air force over there use of ps3 for non gameing / PS3 media use?
Will sony try to say you are braking the EULA by not installing the update that removers other os?
What exactly is wrong about any of this?
Sony: 90% of the people who buy this will copy games. You bought one, so you must copy games. We will fine you and take the dongle from you without a trial. If you want to fight it, that will cost at least $10,000 in legal fees.
Car Analogy -
Police: 90% of the people who drive down this street buy drugs, you drove down this street, so you must have bought drugs, we will fine you and take your car without a trial. If you want to fight it, that will cost at least $10,000 in legal fees.
See the problem?
What EXACTLY should they have done?
Design an open system without copy protection, raised the price of the console slightly and drop the price of the games to $20.
In my humble experience, 3 out of 3 pieces of Sony kit I bought were pieces of shit and ended up in a landfill. I have bought other pices of junk kit from other manufacturers too, but they did not have the overblown price and brand name and not 3 from the same brand were bad either. So I don't buy Sony kit anymore. Nuff sed.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
Buying one of these devices is stupid when there are ways to accomplish exactly the same thing from any number of devices that Sony can't ban, restrict or block including at least one model of calculator.
Has Sony ever confirmed that they lose money on the console and hope to get it back from games?
*sigh* back to work...
There was a news item about two months ago of a senior figure saying that they had finally stopped losing money on the console. Logically, we can deduce that they lost money for three years, and that their margin is still probably very small. Furthermore, that saving is probably over manufacturing and distribution cost, and makes no contribution to marketing costs or recouping development. So it is reasonable to think that are at best breaking even on the console. However, they profit massively from games.
Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
Sounds like a plan, except I don't watch "broadcast programming" to start with. Perhaps those of you who decide to *completely* stop supporting Sony should write letters to the TV stations and TV shows that you care for/about, and let them know of your decision - which includes boycotting TV because they use Sony products to produce it.
Send letters to advertisers whose commercials you see on those shows, as well, telling them the same thing.
Hit the middlemen (the TV producers) in the pocketbook for their equipment manufacturers' misdeeds...
Ok, yeah, I'm going over the top with this. However, at what point do we stop letting the major corporations step all over us, and start stepping back? What is the best method for getting this ridiculous kind of behavior stopped?
Not actually expecting an answer, just trying to jump-start some of those brains.
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported License.
This is EU, people are not afraid of these stupid actions in here. Nobody goes bankrupt for having to go to trial to defend themselves in here. So if they want to sue, let them sue. In the end most of the courts in here will force Sony to pay the court and representation fees to the persons they are suing when they lose.
I only bought a PS3 so that I would not have to run games on Windows. There have been many issues, including three returns for repair of defective components, two just out of warranty. The operating system is limited and buggy. The browser sucks beyond belief. Sony has been horrible to deal with at every step. PS3 hardware now falls well behind budget PC hardware. After this PS3 it is back to PC gaming for me, and exclusively on Linux. By the time this PS3 is ready for the scrapheap there will be plenty of A list titles available on Linux, and plenty of mature free and open projects.
Byebye in advance, Sony.
Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
Sharpie markers can be used to "enable piracy".
Should we ban Sharpies? Sony has been freaking out over ridiculous stuff for years, and it's high time they get punched in the mouth for it (figuratively speaking, of course).
As for "OtherOS" enabling piracy, it wasn't until after it was removed that the various hacker groups really started trying to crack the PS3.
I blame Sony for everything they have done, whether it was "in reaction to those hackers", or just their own dim-witted execs trying to come up with ways to steal more money from their customers.
When are consumers going to learn? Sony has a long track record of screwing their customers... When Amazon ganked books from the Kindle, there was a public outcry. When Blizzard starts banning people from single-player mode for using cheats in single-player mode, there is an outcry. When Sony fucks their customer base over and over again, some stupid Sony apologist comes out and says "What did you expect?" I agree; What did we expect? Sony has proven over and over again that they cannot be trusted, that they cannot be ethical, and that they do not deserve our money.
And yet morons like you continue to hand it to them. I hope you like how far they're bending you over, and I hope you like the treatment you receive for trying to use one of their products (regardless of whether it's the "intended use").
(Side note: The warranty disclaims that there even is an "intended use".)
For myself, I just refuse to knowingly give them any money. I don't buy DVD movies anymore, in case Sony has their fingers in the producing company. I don't buy CD audio anymore, because I don't want to wonder if I'm going to be infected by the "DRM" on the disk. I don't buy Sony electronics products, because I can't trust them to perform as advertised - and even if they do what they're supposed to today, Sony has proven that their products may not operate that way tomorrow.
I would cheerfully watch Sony go down in flames. I hope their executives starve.
Disclaimer: I am not advocating violence against anyone, merely enraged that Sony still exists, after all the legal shenanigans they have pulled. I might actually be persuaded to knowingly piss on a Sony executive, were he or she actually and visibly on fire.
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported License.
But there are very distinct divisions that act very distinctly. It's not many limbs under control of one body, it's many individual people living under one house's rules.
A corporation is a legal construct and legally, all those divisions are part of the same corporation. That means it very much is many limbs under control of one body. Indeed, the word "body" has a sense which can mean a group or collection, so you are wrong whether you examine this from a logical standpoint or indeed from one of language.
Recent actions of SCE are despicable, which is unfortunate because I always considered them the "cleanest" part of sony.
What's unfortunate is your inability to understand that Sony is a single entity. That's how they want it, and therefore, that is how they get it. They put the same logo on everything, so they clearly wish you to consider them a single entity. Only a fanboy would imagine them to be separate entities so that they can feel good about their purchases.
The PS3 had been the most open and out-of-the-box capable console compared to any other that had come out yet.
We could argue about that all day. I would put the 360 ahead of the PS3 due to the relative ease of becoming a developer. Since Sony took away the most open part of the console (which was itself locked down to prevent it from being very useful) I guess we know which company values openness more. Sony has always sought to force you into doing things their way. Microsoft tries to cajole and harass you into it instead, but they know which side their bread is buttered on... the side on which the developers reside. Sony has been downright hostile to developers with their very choice of architecture. The Saturn died for a lot of reasons but part of it was that making cool games was just easier on the Playstation. Then Sony turned around and made two consoles in a row that require you to master a special Sony martial art to even utilize the hardware fully, and made it possible for Microsoft to enter the market meaningfully. The second of those was even priced way too high, which was the OTHER main mistake made by Sega with the Saturn. Sony is apparently incapable of learning, but we'll see when the hardware behind the PS4 is announced. If it's another Cell processor then they have no fucking clue.
Is it awesome-super-godly-great? No. I, for one, like streaming my music and movies to it from my pc without having to set a single piece of software up beforehand. I like plugging in a usb stick with media on it when I don't stream. I also don't buy any mainstream albums, much less sony/bmg ones. I haven't bought a tv in a long time, but I will be avoiding Sony's. That being said, the ps division has generally, up until recently, at least, been good to us.
I see you have forgotten about Sony's destruction of Lik-Sang. Those who forget the lessons of history are doomed to look like a dipshit on public fora.
Maybe it was just a "given" that Microsoft's offering was going to be extra-proprietary, so no stories focused on it. And maybe it was a given that the wii intended to be a toy and not much more, so no stories focused on it. But I've heard gaming fanboys use more fact-checking in attacking consoles than most /. stories do concerning the ps3.
There are all breeds of fanboys. I am an anti-fanboy, I trust no one. I have a 360 but not a PS3 only because when I went to get a PS3 they didn't have GTA4 in stock, and then I saw a used 360 with a bunch of games including GTA4 for sale on Craigslist. The evil bastards would have had my money if not for the incompetence of Kmart, true story. Since then I've become even more incensed — removing Linux from the PS3 was for me the final straw and I will no longer buy anything from Sony new or even refurb'd. Some wireless headphones are destined to be my final Sony purchase. In addition, wh
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Design an open system without copy protection, raised the price of the console slightly and drop the price of the games to $20.
Wait....what? Are you serious? So developers are no longer allowed to recoup the millions of $ they are spending developing games? Either the company that made it, the company that published it, or the company that sold it are going to make no money if you try and sell the game for that cheap, or at least not enough to justify it.
Ever since that rootkit crap Sony pulled some years ago I will not buy any Sony products. Here's yet another example of essentially illegal activity on their part. We have options to buy non-Sony products for most of the electronics and optical computer drives we use so join the boycott.
Don't you think Sony has seen what happens to a platform when it gets broken open like happened on the PSP?
Like more people buying PSPs than would have otherwise?
They've found that if you let people have access to a moderate level of "Home Brew" creation ability, some assholes will use that ability to enable massive piracy, just because they can.
If you don't let people have access to a moderate level of home brew creation ability, some assholes will enable massive piracy just because they can. Since piracy is going to happen either way, might as well let people use the devices they own the way they choose.
Live with it.
Exactly what Sony should be doing.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Nice bit of shaming language you did there, unfortunately we're wise to that kind of thing now....
The Catalogue of Anti-Male Shaming Tactics:
Charge of Unattractiveness (Code Tan) – The Ugly Tan Charge
Discussion: The target is accused of having no romantic potential as far as women are concerned. Examples:
* “I bet you are fat and ugly.”
* “You can’t get laid!”
* “Creep!”
* “Loser!”
* “Have you thought about the problem being you?”
Response: This is another example of “circumstantial ad hominem.” The target’s romantic potential ultimately does not reflect on the merit of his arguments.
No the "lady" in question wasn't talking about the guy, she was admitting she's a typical bitch in search of another "bad boy" who is willing to slap her around. Most real men aren't desperate enough to do that sort of thing and find it repulsive. They walk away.
The same thing that seems to be happening with Sony come to think of it...
Have a Virgin Mobile USA smartphone? Give VMRoms.com a try!
Developers are not compelled to invest in creating any specific game, and they are not entitled to profit if they choose to. I am however entitled, if not by law by any reasonable sense of justice, to full and complete control over my own property. My right to actual property that I own is not trumped by their desire to profit. If that means no more mega million dollar blockbuster games, that's OK. Securing a little extra profit for some developers today is not worth destroying the meaning of the property rights we've enjoyed for centuries.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
See http://www.lik-sang.com/. Sony lied about the the products they were importing and sued them in multipul courts at the same time to stop them from selling a product (The PSP before Sony started selling it in Europe) that they really didn't have a legal right to stop, so this is old hat to Sony. Thats right, I'm still bitter 4 years later as no site has come along that is half as good for imports then Lik-Sang was. Screw Sony.
http://fathertom.net/hardwii - My Wii Hardware Centric Website
Design an open system without copy protection, raised the price of the console slightly and drop the price of the games to $20.
You know, if there actually was a demand for this in the marketplace, and a way to do what you describe profitably, someone would have done so by now.
Then I compare FreeCiv to Civilization V and know why not.
What she really was saying was, "You're bad at sex, and not attentive enough to my moods to make me forgive you for it."
You can fake an orgasm, but you can't fake a pussyfart.
No the "lady" in question wasn't talking about the guy, she was admitting she's a typical bitch in search of another "bad boy" who is willing to slap her around. Most real men aren't desperate enough to do that sort of thing and find it repulsive. They walk away.
The same thing that seems to be happening with Sony come to think of it...
My point exactly.
Free Martian Whores!
You know, if there actually was a demand for this in the marketplace, and a way to do what you describe profitably, someone would have done so by now.
Of course there's a demand, the problem up until about 2009 was distribution. That's slowly changing for the PC market, but it's much more difficult for the console market. You want to sell at GameStop or WalMart, you have to deal with a major player. So, your title shows up with EA or someone similar.
Why do you think Apple wants to totally control ipod/pad/phone distibution?
Then I compare FreeCiv to Civilization V and know why not.
Yes, because an open market without restrictions means a small project like FreeCiv and not something like World of Goo. Which sells for $20 and did damn well.
You ARE aware that the only reason consoles are as cheap as they are is because the rest of the cost they eat (Wii excluded) is effectively subsidized by developers paying licensing fees, right?
Subsidization is a mistake. I think having a console with a low entry point to development would bring in money as well.
I'm saying we already have one, and it's called your computer.
The 12 year old who wants to play xbox games doesn't want a computer. That would require thought.
The console has two advantages, the platform doesn't change for the life of the console and the interface is consistent.
...are getting far fetched. You can legally hack on your apple products, but if you do the same *exact* thing on a ps3 you get sent to court? This law either needs to get pulled or fixed to say, you can "Jailbreak" any hardware device you can buy regardless of EULA/TOS/Whatever. Telling me how to use something in my house though doesn't get me to buy your product personally. Xbox 360 banned around 1 million 360's over christmas and still get hacked. They don't bring the users to court, and they have a pretty huge user base. Instead of spending all R&D time on dropping features and setting up ways to sue people, they let you hack your system, and if you decide to get caught in the ban wave, you get your box banned (though not your live account). You buy a new box and start it over again, so a huge base buys new consoles every so often. I personally did "mod" my old xbox1 just to run gentoox (gentoox.shallax.com) and xbmc on it, and I bought about 45 games for it to play on the side for around 50 a piece on it. Didn't pirate one game. But the pirates ruin it for the rest of the homebrewers. I'm almost pretty sure that if otheros was patched to stop the exploit that was being worked on instead of ripped out, all those people wouldn't be mad enough to try to hack their machines to perhaps find a way to downgrade their firmware or find a way to run linux without restrictions. I personally gave up on the console scenes though. I don't like to affiliate with people that are only out to steal software when all I want to do is mess around with homebrew or something. And since I picked up a pretty decent laptop, I can do all the hacking on source I want in real linux and not have to be accused by some company of being a thief or worry about the sony ninja's trying to sue.
> Design an open system without copy protection, raised the price of the console slightly and drop the price of the games to $20.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3#Sales_and_production_costs and understand the idiocy of Sony's business model for the PS3. There was no way they could have raised the price "slightly".
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3#Sales_and_production_costs and understand the idiocy of Sony's business model for the PS3. There was no way they could have raised the price "slightly".
Yes, there's no way Sony could have done that with the design of the PS3. I didn't say 'design the PS3' I said 'design an open system'.
The Wii doesn't follow the Sony model, is very successful and nets Nintendo a profit on every unit sold.
> on every unit sold
and even more if you include all of the specialty controllers. A much better business model until matter duplicators come around. :-)
Wait, you can buy a social life now? Where do you shop for those, I'm interested.