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Ergonomic Mechanical-Switch Keyboard?
dotancohen writes "As wear and tear on my hands builds up, I find that I need an ergonomic (split) keyboard. It seems the vast majority of available ergonomic models are either crippled with dome-switches or have unusual designs, which place many critical keys under the thumbs (I cannot use my right thumb). The one normal-appearing contender, the Northgate Ergonomic Evolution, seems to be noisier than even the Model M — in fact, it echoes! Programmers and hobbyists geeky enough to be here today: what do you type on?"
I don't type on a freakin' iPad touchscreen keypad.
Normal keyboard. Been doing it for 35 years now with no problems. Hate 'ergonomic' keyboards.
I hate to point you elsewhere rather than provide an answer, but the GeekHack forum is a very rich source of information and reviews from people who know what to look for in a keyboard (or any input device), and they've probably reviewed every keyboard out there (and modified them). I don't use ergonomic keyboards, but I am very adamant about mechanical-switch keyboards that have just the right amount of tension and tactile/audible response.
Check out the forum here:
http://geekhack.org/forumdisplay.php?f=31
There are also some interesting vertical keyboards like the SafeType and the Kinesis Freestyle Ascent, but they're kinda expensive and might take a bit of relearning.
Here's a survey of ergonomic keyboards: http://nsx.underbase.org/db/kbd/keyboard-survey.htm
Personally I use a DSI ASK-6600 and a Scorpius M10, and I like them both very much. The DSI keys need a bit more force to push, and it has the large "Enter" key I like from old Keytronix keyboards (as opposed to a large Backspace key and a repositioned backslash character, like the Scorpius and Model M have).
These two keyboards probably don't appeal to you because they're not curved/natural keyboards. I avoid wrist problems while using a regular (straight) keyboard because I have a custom typing style, wherein my wrists are not angled when they rest on my "home row" (e.g. index fingers rest on V and N instead of F and J). This limits my upper bound of typing a bit (under 100wpm), but fast continuous typing will only get you so far in programming and sysadmin work, whereas wrists that don't hurt are quite nice... I also remap my CapsLock key to be another Ctrl, for easy one-handed reach to Ctrl+F1-F5/etc.
While you're at it -- upgrade your mouse too! I found all my wrist problems went away when I moved to a Logitech Cordless Trackman (wish it was corded, but whatever). This has a finger-operated trackball and a thumb-operated left-click, which I find MUCH more accurate and comfortable than a thumb-operated trackball (e.g. most trackball mice on the market now). Trackball mice are usually considered to be more accurate than regular mice anyways. One of the big benefits here is the fact that your wrist isn't as twisted as with a regular mouse... if that's your main goal, there are also some expensive ergonomic vertical mice that might be comfortable.
Ergonomic Model Ms exist, but are incredibly hard to find. You may want to ask around, though. An old workplace of mine had one sitting around in the storage.
I haven't done it in a long while but I did have a machine that was very well trained and in a quite room that go about 85% right with code. Maybe the technology has improved to get it closer to 90-95%?
Natural Ergonomic keyboard (from Microsoft)
http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mouseandkeyboard/productdetails.aspx?pid=043
The best a man can get...
I use text to speeches you looters. It is the rest! No worrying about miss-wiping the wrong bird and spit is always 1000 percent immaculate!
'We are trying to prove ourselves wrong as quickly as possible, because only in that way can we find progress.' RPF
Myself, I'm on a Belkin model that I love but is no longer sold. I'm screwed because it has the key layout I prefer but no one makes any more.
50% of the poor keys are now blank from wear. Good thing I can type in the dark.
Yeah, I know, not that helpful, just need to vent. :)
Anything is possible given time and money.
It's not ergonomic per se, but the Filco Majestouch Tactile Touch Keyboard w/ Cherry MX switches is a great keyboard.
Elite Keyboards is a good place to buy them at.
You can read more about Mechanical Key switch keyboards here: Mechanical Key siwtch keyboards demystified
The one normal-appearing contender, the Northgate Ergonomic Evolution, seems to be noisier than even the Model M — in fact, it echoes!
Isn't that a good thing?
IMHO the louder the better. Keyboard noise level is the only metric my boss uses to measure my productivity since he's code illiterate. Thanks to my trusty model M, I have one of the best job in the world - cybering for a living.
If you really want an ergonomic keyboard get one with a negative slope, I find this does more to relieve strain than just splitting the keys. Years ago Logitech use to resell one that you could get as various off brands that had flop tabs under the hand rest. These days, the only thing I can find in the microsoft natural series of keyboards. I have the wireless one at home, but the mouse is a bit clunky and I've already had to replace it once (one drop on the floor is all it took to render the scroll wheel unusable). I have the wired USB one at work, and just wish they'd make one without a faux leather wrist wrest as it can get a bit grimy.
I have my minions type for me, so i dont care bout the keyboard
It sounds like you are looking for this. Truly Ergonomic Keyboards
I like the Microsoft 4000 keyboard. I use it at home and work. I do get a lot of pinky finger cramps from a lot of copying and pasting. My only real gripe with it is that the 1-5 buttons across the top are not fully programmable. You can pick from a list of actions on what you want them to do.
Get a Das or something with some cheery browns. They are a light lighter (require less force) and you only have to press about halfway down. They are also one of the quietest mechanical switches--just don't bottom out and it will feel and almost sound like you're typing on a cloud. They have ergonomic browns, too.
I have been using them for over 15 years now. They saved my career. The only drawback is they are rather tall. I have thumb issues too, you could type right-thumbless on this keyboard easily. They are also programmable if you want to do something nonstandard with the layout.
In a similar vein, I'd love to find a keyboard that matches the contours, layout, and tilt of the modern MS natural keyboard, but with laptop style half-height keys. I almost considered building one.
Logitech Wave, seriously best keyboard I've owned.
I've used the Microsoft Natural Wireless Multimedia Keyboard for a very long time, and before that I had the nasty Microsoft Natural Keyboard Elite. I just got the Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000 at work and aside from the faux leather (which I don't think is going to hold up very well) it types rather nicely. I couldn't find any ergonomic keyboards that looked sexy, sadly there's not much market for sexy keyboards =(
"seems to be noisier than even the Model M — in fact, it echoes!"?... yes please! :>
One that hath name thou can not otter
It's even louder than a Model M? Uh...neato?
Man, anyone with a Model M that works in an office environment deserves a swift kick in the nuts. It's incredibly inconsiderate to the rest of your coworkers.
Go ahead and make all your 'but teh ergonomics of clicking', 'but my RSI'...at the end of the day you're a loud, distracting jerk that only considers yourself.
Like to use a Model M at home? Sweet...rock on.
The position of the arrow keys is unsuitable for the OP's stated requirements.
I like old-time keyboards with function keys on the left. Why are they discontinued? If you are talking about ergonomic kb, they are more ergonomic than the ones with function keys on top. Try to hit Ctrl-F5 100 times a day...
Jeff Atwood had a post on a remarkably similar subject last Friday:
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2010/10/the-keyboard-cult.html
that references the geekhack site.
And the worms ate into his brain.
Before even owning a laptop/netbook, I fell in love with the low-depth, nearly silent click of laptop keyboard keys made for the full size keyboard. However, there's quite a number of people who like this, so it's not entirely easy to find them anymore.
Counterintuitive? Definitely. You see, once all the millions of keyboard manufacturers noticed the trend, they started making short/shallow keys with the exact same switch as standard keyboards. So, while it looks like a laptop keyboard, they're quite frequently normal crap keyboards whose downward press, if slightly off-angle, produces a scrape within the switch that slows/messes up typing or completely blows a gaming experience.
I can't buy keyboards online anymore because I just need to test it out myself. "Slime" and "Laptop style" just isn't enough to convince me.
I've found that minimal key travel to be more beneficial and comfortable. The Apple USB Aluminum is dead on for that.
http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/contoured.htm
Granted, by default they have stuff done with your right thumb, but I believe the keyboard is fully remapable, so you can fix that. They don't say what kind of switches they use, but they are very clicky, with a nice feel. I have used them for years, and really like them.
Plato seems wrong to me today
I have used a kinesis advantage for years. it's $300 and i love it and can't use anything else. it has replaceable mechanical buttons. of the two improvements, vertical rows and separated hands, vertical rows make a much bigger difference. typematrix.com sells vertical-row-only keyboards, but if you can spring for it, the kinesis advantage is the best kybd on the palent.
i love das keyboard, got the ultimate without characters printed on. noisy but my hands like it very very much. not ergonomic, so probably nothing you would buy... try data hands http://www.datahand.com/ are said to be the best, but require a little practice...
http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/advantage.htm
Best money I've spent.
Check out the Veyboard, a Dutch chorded keyboard with an ergonomic layout that uses Cherry keys. I'm mentioning it only as a curiosity, because the learning curve is fierce. But those who have mastered it can type at conversational speeds. The system works by splitting words into syllables and then keying them in with both hands, a syllable at a time. It exploits the fact that every syllable consists of zero or more starting consonants, one or more central vowels, and zero or more ending consonants. On the Veyboard, the starting consonants are keyed with the left hand on the left side of the board, the center vowels in the center of the board with fingers from both hands, and the ending consonants on the right hand side with the right hand. You "spell out" a syllable across the board, from left to right, with both hands. I own one of these things (though I can hardly operate it, sorry to say), and it's actually quite natural-feeling. The tricky part is getting all fingers of both hands at the right place at the right time and doing it really fast, but in theory that's just practice...
Certain combinations of keys produce certain letters, or entire strings. The system is really neat in that it produces plain text straight from the machine, not abbreviations, and the input fully defines the output. Apart from some simple rules ("T and J make D"), there is no interpretation layer or dictionary. You can even do special keys, or a single letter per chord; but not that you'd want to. Can be handy when you need to spell something funny. Alas, the Veyboard (or Velotype as it used to be known) is a famous futuristic flop from the 1980's, and these days finds traction mostly with live captioners and deaf interpreters. But I think it's still quite neat.
I liked the feel of the Amiga 4000 keyboards back in the day. I wonder what key mechanism that used. I'm pretty sure it was responsive and tactile, but mercifully quiet.
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The GoldTouch, from KeyOvation (www.keyovation.com). Mine's a Mac, I assume they have non-Mac keyboards. Its design sound exactly what you are looking for.
"Don't blame the log for the fire." --Andrew Ratshin
You could get a cherry G80-3000 in one of the 3 characteristics (hard-click, soft-click or linear) in a layout of your choice. It has individual switches of excellent quality.
Then arrange them on solder-dot epoxy PCB's just the way you like and wire them to the controller in the original matrix. This may take a day or two of work, but it will give you exactly what you need/want, and these cherry switches keep forever. For most keys, you should be able to keep the original key-caps, but standard-sized key-caps are also available for these switches.
End result may not be too pretty and this is significant effort. On the other side, you would get exactly what you think you need and could even change things later.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
9 year old logitech keyboard. there is borderline intelligent life growing under the keys.
If you have the money and don't mind a bit of a learning curve, datahand is definitely the way to go. Although, I wouldn't buy a new one myself at the current price. But you can find used ones on ebay occasionally, that go for about half of what a new one costs. Which is admittedly still a pretty big chunk of change for a keyboard. But they are much, much, much easier on your hands.
Also, if you want to geek out on it, you can check out my alternative firmware - http://github.com/JesusFreke/DHFirm
Best of luck.
I'm using an MS Natural at the moment. I made the mistake of getting the 4000 or whatever it was called, but it's a serious POS. It died in a month's time, but I disliked it so much I bought a new keyboard instead of exchanging it. Sadly, this is no longer the rich market of the 1990s. It seems like there are only 3 kinds of ergo keyboards in the $20-50 range, and none of them can seem to last more than a year. The next bracket starts around $250 and goes up to $2000. My favourite out of the whole bunch was a black Belkin that lasted almost 8 years, but it's no longer being made.
Meanwhile, all the cheapie $20 ones I bought in the mid to late 90s seem to work just fine, but I only have one computer I can physically plug them into.
do() || do_not();
i know this is going to sound strange - you asked one question but get an answer to another, but the root cause of the problem isn't the keyboard, it's the fact that you're hunched over it, tensed up, locking out the blood supply from your arms and screwing up your hands.
to fix that, you should AT LEAST be doing the overarm stretch: stick hand straight up, bend elbow so that hand goes behind head with elbow still up in air, then take other hand onto elbow, pull and lean geeeently sideways so that entire side stretches
you should also be doing "horse stance" from tai-ji, which is really quite complex to describe, but imagine that you're sat on a horse: your legs are apart, knees bent, and hands outstretched imagine holding reins _but_, the actual tai-ji "horse stance" has some quite complex and specific positions and purpose. the primary purpose is to stretch tendons on the *underside* of your arms and in fingers (forearms as well) as well as elevating the heart-rate.
so, you have to push your elbows outwards so that your upper arms are 45 degrees from vertical, but forearms are absolutely horizontal. hands you have to imagine that you are holding two basket-balls, one in each, palms down but slightly elevated a fraction, fingers splayed as far wide as you can go.
get it right and you should feel loots of tendons stretching under your armpits, at your elbow-forearm _and_ wrists _and_ the thumb and little finger tendons! and that's exactly what you need - to stretch out that which you've utterly cramped out and damaged.
the horse-stance itself results in quite seriously elevated heart rate: you're bending your knees and staying there, so you should be breathing deeply and fully. stay there for as long as possible, increase until you get to 5 minutes. you will be surprised: horse stance for 5 minutes is one hell of a long time.
the other one is the yoga position where you sit on the floor, put one leg bent into your crotch and the other straight out, then lean over and grab ankle (or as close as you can get it). with each breath out, go down a little further. DO NOT "shake". if you feel yourself shaking, BACK OFF.
what i do with this yoga position is, rather than stay going down straight is i roll _sideways_ after a while, so that i get more stretch on the insides of my arms and side, which is exactly where you need the circulation increased, to get bloodflow back to your arms and fingers. repeat on the other side but come up SLOWLY - don't just try to jolt yourself out because you _will_ pull a muscle that way, especially at full stretch.
all of these exercises are designed to increase the circulation on the _underside_ of your arms (at the top) as it's here which is actually causing the blood flow to decrease, toxins to build up, tension to happen and damage to occur.
so - yeah. fuck the keyboard - get your health sorted out.
Mindblowing statement: Your hands don't need to be close to each other for you to type.
So try this:
Take two keyboards you like (If there is a compact model, get one of those for your left hand), and place both on the desk, side-by-side. Your left hand goes on the left keyboard, and your right hand goes on the right keyboard. Angle the keyboards so that you're comfortable typing. ~~TaDa~~
Added bonus: Tell your boss that you've doubled your productivity.
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on a straight model M from unicomp. I havent found the design to be painful, then again i never learned "the correct way" to type with fingers gingerly wadded against the home row keys.
Good people go to bed earlier.
I have CVT Avant Stellar keyboards on the two PCs I use most. They're not the "ergonomic" style (I don't think I have whatever problem those solve) but they're supposed to be designed by whoever did the original Omnikey keyboard (which I have on another machine and love), and indeed they have the same wonderful clicky feel and metal back. I like them so much that I bought a spare (even though it was $189) since I didn't want to go through withdrawal when one of these dies, but it's never happened. Once in a while a key will get flaky (stubborn and/or bouncy) but then I'll just pull off the keycap (tool is included), dribble some 91% rubbing alcohol into the switch, and then I'm back in business.
Besides the reliability, nice feel, duplicate set of pre-EKB F-keys on the left (I've been using the same editor since 1983 and pressing those keys is involuntary at this point), I *really* like the fact that they included extra keycaps (and that tool I mentioned) so you could put Ctrl to the left of ASDF (as God intended, or anyway, all the non-PC keyboards I ever use) even though the Ctrl and CapsLock keycaps aren't the same size and so aren't swappable. There seems to be a slight bug in the firmware though -- obviously I programmed the keyboards to exchange those two keys, but once in a while they get confused and what's now the Ctrl key ends up working as CapsLock anyway (so the LED comes on and I'm shouting until I notice and fix it). It doesn't happen often enough to affect my loyalty, but it's weird.
ANYWAY so if the Northgate name on this ergonomic thing means it's in any way similar to the earlier Omnikey and Stellar KBs, definitely definitely buy one.
http://www.keybowl.com/ You could also try the Frogpad but I don't know how ergo that is.
When I started getting wrist pain from typing I learned to type on the dvorak layout. Your problem is probably less with the keyboard itself and more with what you're doing on it.
I also use a Model-M IBM at work and don't really care how noisy it is.. they're the greatest keyboards ever produced.
I have an 1990 model M at work and a 1994 one at home. The 94 is sadly one the the inferior lexmark ones.
I have a stack of at least 20 good model m keyboards, not sure I will ever get to use any of my spares. They are built like a abrahms tank so the chances of me breaking one are pretty close to nil.
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I try to have the staff I support choose from a variety of keyboard because one size does not fit all (I'm looking at you, Microsoft). The one the works best for the most people has been the "Kinesis Freestyle Solo Ergonomic Keyboard". You will also need the "Kinesis Freestyle VIP Keyboard accessories kit" (the "kit" is the wrist rest and adjustable stand) and optionally the "Kinesis Low-Force Numeric Keypad". It's not cheap, but it can be adjusted to suit your seating and body position. You can find these products with a quick search on Amazon.com.
I use a selectric 251.
If they ask why, then they brought up the conversation.
And it's just at the edge of being passive aggressive.
Though I find that treating people with equality garners more respect.
Storm
> which place many critical keys under the thumbs
You can remap keys in software - my hands would be long gone by now if I couldn't. Hint: try "man xmodmap".
Mechanical keyboards are not so ergonomic. The pressure required to trigger a key is part of ergonomics, in addition to shape. IN fact a 4000 has different pressure for different keys. It is slight, but it matters.
Really the original poster needs to ask what they really want: A mechanical keyboard for fun/geek cred, or a keyboard designed for the best ergonomics?
If ergonomics are key, the MS 4000 is the way to go.
get a 10 to 20 pound weight (it should feel light but tire you after 20-30 reps) and do forearm curls.
Don't overbend the wrist.
Part of your issue may be tendonitis in your forearms (which these exercizes exhaust and release).
Also upright rowing (a lot of "wrist" issues are really shoulder/back issues) gain with medium weights (feels light- but tires you after 20-30 reps).
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
I use a normal ol' IBM something or other, but I don't do any programming these days - mostly just normal writing, which a flat keyboard and good posture works fine enough for.
My husband, though, has two Kinesis Advantage Pros that he picked up about a year ago - one for home, one for work. It looks really strange, but he swears by them. They're fully programmable (he's loaded a different layout onto his, though damned if I can recall the name of it), handle key-activated macros, and have footpedals too.
It's not split, but the mechanical switches in the ABS M1 (USB) have nice rebound. I was happy with it at $70 but have seen it as low as $20 on Newegg. As a bonus, people on the phone can hear it so they know when I'm doing terminal work and they don't keep interrupting. It reminds me very much of the Apple Extended Keyboard II, for those for whom that means something.
Make sure your hand/arm positions and wrist rest are configured properly first before going looking for exotic keyboards, though. I've had friends with RSI who practically type with their wrists at a 90 degree angle.
Typing teachers must not slap wrists the way piano teachers do. Keep your tendons straight, or "wrists up"!
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OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Surprise not many people mentioned this one: http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/contoured.htm
Yes, the layout is a bit weird. I was in and out for 3 times before I finally settled on it (in between, I spent around $1000 on various boards, like Happy Hacking Pro, Topre, and Model-M. Geekhack.org is addictive, be aware). Kinesis wins in the end (after about 1-month to get use to it). Now I have one in office and one at home. It is super well designed, Cherry Brown switch, as well as has the best customer support (once poured water in, emailed customer support, they sent me half of the key-well free of charge). If you are looking for Ergo Mechanical board, this is the only choice.
learn how to type on a Dvorak keyboard, and quit complaining about pains and lack of ergonomics.
You can buy a hardwired Dvorak for $95 at http://www.fentek-ind.com/kbdvorak2ub.htm
You could try something completely different, like the orbiTouch.
Personally, I like the Adjustable keyboard . Ball adjustment locks in place. Standard QWERTY, no thumb keys (no big transition to flat QWERTY). Possibly membrane, but I don't mind even though I've used Model "M"s for decades.
For me, the big deal is reducing wrist angle. I adjust kbd up as high as possible to make my wrists more vertical, and somewhat apart to keep arm-middle-finger phalanges in line. This kbd goes much higher than most others.
The Maltron -- http://www.maltron.com/. It's been a lifesaver -- not only a better shape (curved, to match your hands) but a better layout of letters (to avoid "single-finger hurdles" and other problematic movements). See also http://www.red-bean.com/kfogel/maltron.html.
http://www.red-bean.com/kfogel
Although it lacks any special sort of strange shape that promotes ergonomic use of a keyboard, this keyboard is mechanical-switch, very large and sturdy, and a pleasure to type on: Customizer 104/105.
I am thinking of trying the alphagrip keyboard. http://www.alphagrips.com/ I was looking for the "gripped in your palm" type keyboard and ran across this.
It is your bodies way to say "STOP DOING THAT!!!!!" Take a break, do something else. After all your hands have to last you a lifetime.
Undetectable Steganography? Yep, there's an app fo
Remember all the beef the original eee-pc keyboards got? I switched all the keys around & typed in Dvorak, & was able to get up to my standard wpm on it in no time! Many switch to Dvorak because the ass-hattery that is the QWERTY layout has given them RSI. I, on the other hand, enjoy it's simple ergonomic layout that doubles as anti-retardation.
http://www.datadesktech.com/desktop_base.html
It's a bit of effort and not quite what you were looking for, but I've found that the absolute best decision I ever made to reduce RSI and other such effects was to switch to the Dvorak layout with an IBM Model M. It's actually pretty easy to learn Dvorak with an M too since it's so easy to rearrange the keycaps. But yea, it's more of an investment (in terms of time), but I would say it's worth looking into.
I tried one of these for two weeks. Keys are in alphabetical order and it has some other neat innovations. One small problem is that at the time it would not generate CONTROL+SHIFT+RIGHT ARROW which I use in the code editor a lot to select a word. I suppose this could be remapped in the editor.
Seriously though, can't you use your right pinkie on the right control and alt keys?
I found that my wrist pain got worse when I switched to a crappy keyboard that was marked "ergonomic" just because it was split, but healed for good when I switched to a nice "non-ergonomic" scissor-switch keyboard. These mechanical keyboards have a nice, solid clicky feel, but the keys take less effort to press, and don't travel as far, compared to the classic buckling spring switches.
I used the Kensington SlimType, and my wrists felt better quickly. It looks like they've recently stopped production, but you can still get a new one for ~$25 -- really cheap for the quality IMO.
Real programmers have evolved on to see in dimly lit caverns typing on the QWERTY keyboard. I have to wear special corrective lenses to see in daylight. I get arthritis just thinking about typing less than 220 WPM, and walking upright may cause a herniated disk.
So you know someone who has?
I kinda doubt it as the thing seems to be unreleased at this point. As such recommending it is rather premature. Until it is on the market, and has been tested saying "This is the thing to use," is misleading. Maybe it is a brilliant design. I'll look at it for sure. However you really don't know that at this point.
Illuminated Keyboard - Logitech
I hacked together a glove consisting of 10 leads with an accelerometer attached to each palm. By rotating the angle of the glove, I am able to control the specific characters being typed. It works well, keeps me productive, and gives me a lot more space on my desk. Plus I can fit it into my pocket!
Yeah, I wish something like this existed. Ergonomic keyboards, for all their supposed benefits, still take up a lot of space and demand repetitive actions on a frequent basis. You can try one, but I don't think they are any better or worse than anything esle.
Sure I could have bought a G11 and gotten roughly the same result but for my programming I rely on having the keys just a pinky reach away. Programming the keys to give excactly what I want, when I want with tons of profiles for whatever it is I'm doing from a paint by numbers LINQ expression (you know the one, var x = y from s where y.ToString() == "Something" select y) to a monsterous 300 line class that I seem to use way too much in all of my programs. Press one button and I have it instead of finding something that already does and copying it over.
People think of this as a gaming tool and yes I did buy it for that reason. But the more I started using the thing for other stuff did it really come alive just what I can do with it. The keys are soft but after repeated use will become loud especially if you slam the keys. Ergonomic? Not even close. Useful? Certianly.
For those who seek perfection there can be no rest on this side of the grave.
i prefer durex featherlite (non-latex) oh wait, not that size? right, right _keyboards_, riiight. hey, do you mean the microsoft ergonomic one with the full-sized up/down/left/right arrows? those are brilliant, i got 2 of them because i actually wear keyboards out within 2 years. if you can find a MS keyboard (with full-sized arrow keys) GET IT because they're gorgeous. avoid the ones with the 3/4-sized arrow keys like the plague. see? smaller _isn't_ better. okay, now i'm really confused. what are we talking about, here, again?
Get yourself dual wireless programmable keypads, put them on the arms of your chair, embed a trackball into the arm of the chair.
Wireless USB connector dongle and go.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Colemak. Designed with 21st century software, for the 21st century keyboard. Typing is fun again.
Not ergonomic per se, what with the curves and separation and what not, but still the most awesome keyboard ever made. I lost mine in a move, and while the new Apple keyboards are pretty darn sweet, they still can't hit that old Extended Keyboard II feel.
Someone made a post above about some similar keyboard to the Extended Keyboard II, but due to a weird display bug, I can't tell who made it. Please enlighten me.
Why switch keyboards when you can switch the layout to dvorak and get a 92% movement improment, 50% faster, and 50% less mistakes? It is the "ergonomic layout."
I currently type this on a MacBook Pro (likeable keyboard for a laptop) and have a 1988 Model M and a Kinesis Advantage Pro (with the triple action footswitch) on my desk. I've used Microsoft Naturals (which were probably acceptably well made for a year or two), and well, lots of crappy keyboards on various servers, sites and a few generations of (mostly) mac laptops.
The Model M was primary my work keyboard for 15 years. It became the home desktop and gaming keyboard for a decade after that. I am a big guy, I seriously can't explain the type of hammering that this thing has taken over the decades. The keycaps pop off (dishwasher=perfectly clean), allowing easy spill cleaning, and I am convinced I could both defend and attack with it. It brings me great amusement to have a keyboard older than most the people I've gamed with, that works as well as it did when I found it under a pile of old pc's in the 90's (perfectly).
I firmly believe that if your seating/desk position is correct, that a standard keyboard like this can be used 'ergonomically', and the spring action allows for perfectly predictable keytravel->actuation without bottoming out, which seems less stressful than pressing at mush->stop. The fact that it accepts up to 12 simultaneous inputs makes it great for gaming, or crazy emacs macros. I've heard good things about the better model m clones, but .. I think anyone who spends serious time at a keyboard should find/acquire at least one real model M.
The Kinesis Advantage Pro is an excellent keyboard - I bought it to replace the M. The overall build quality seems quite high (expensive, it should be) I like the button feel (damnit model m is better) but *it* is quieter. Obviously the layout takes some getting used to, and with the footswitch might actually work for you. I am still a slower typist with the Kinesis but for some operations it might be faster given all the macro possibilities. I use the pedal for ctrl-alt-shft and have mapped them to macros/other functions. I actually find using this keyboard quite relaxing and still slightly weird some part of me wants a much bigger row of foot switches, and a split level desk with multiple keyboards to 'play'
Other than for the most verbose languages (cobol?) I don't find my typing speed the rate determining factor for coding, so pick something comfortable! I also don't think that keyboards alone can make a significant impact in RSI problems without making certain that the rest of your ergonomic details and posture are correct, and that you get enough variety of exercise and stretching.
Piggybacking on this subject, does anyone have a favorite alternative keyboard? Has anyone actually used the FrogPad, AlphaGrip, or the OrbiTouch?
The ______ Agenda
I developed major wrist problems when writing my PhD dissertation, which involved coding (some 20,000 lines of Python) and writing lots of text. I had started off on an IBM Thinkpad X60 keyboard, which while good as laptop keyboards go, is not ideal for coding.
What made the problem go away for me was four things:
In addition I used a keyboard remapper to assign extra functions to the Windows keys (there is an extra set of Windows keys in the key column left of the keyboard). I remapped them into extra Enter and Backspace keys to be used with the left hand.
With the combination of the four, I went from having constant pain in the wrist to writing 140,000 words within six months without major issues, Your mileage may vary, but in my case it has definitely worked.
As a state gets corrupt, its laws multiply; the most corrupt states have the most numerous laws. (Tacitus, Annales 3:27)
One of the best things you can do is to reduce the pressure needed to activate the keys. The IBM M's for example need a pretty heavy press to activate. If get an older mechanical keyboard with ALPS mechanical switches, you can trim about 30% off the spring, dramatically reducing the pressure needed to activate the switch.
And keep in mind that you won't have to slam down to the bottom - the switch activates about half way down. This alone dramatically helps reduce finger strain. There are lots of good unused old stock ALPS 'boards out there on Ebay for around $20 which you can use with a ps2 to usb adapter, don't think you need to pay a lot. They may not be the best for gaming since there are a limited number of simultaneous keypresses that can be sent over a ps2 connection, but for work, the quality is beyond anything you can buy today. For more info, definitely go to geekhack.org.
I use a Keytronic ergoforce keyboard that I like.
i type on a custom isotonic pointing keyboard. i have total control of the computer screen all while my fingers on the home row. i can point, click, type, and scroll in any order all while my fingers are on the home row. the pointing performance is the same as an optical mouse. from my phd research and testing an integrated isotonic pointing keyboard is the fastest and most efficient pointing and typing device for total computer screen input and control.
I also liked the MS keyboards. But I got a sore arm from reaching out to far to the right to reach my mouse.
I opted to get rid of the numeric keypad and after a long search I found the Fujitsu Siemens KBPC E.
It looks kinda wierd, but it has good keys and you can keep the mouse closer at hand.
http://uk.shopping.com/Fujitsu-Siemens-KBPC-E-S26381-K261-L165/info
I am from Denmark and thus need three keys to type our three extra vowels.
The national danish keyboard layouts has gone around that by moving the [ ] ; keys to wierd Alt Gr positions.
That works well for most people, but if you are a java programmer you need your curly braces and your semicolons.
I fixed that by getting the US version of the keyboard. I then downloaded this program:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/goglobal/bb964665.aspx
And modified my layout so I was able to make the danish vowels Æ, Ø, Å in way that uses caps lock as an modifier.
I've been using "borrowed" IBM 101 keyboards from my first job almost 20 years ago. They were in the bin to be thrown out, so I grabbed a couple. Good thing I was able to get adapters to convert the plug into a PS/2 keyboard plug .... and again in to a USB converter so I can keep using these wonderful input devices. Every 10 yrs or so, a key starts sticking, so I wash the entire keyboard in the bath tube. Let it dry out and it is as good as new. Both keyboards are still working.
Before the IBM keyboards, I used a Norton keyboard - just the right feedback and zero click noise. It wasn't possible to find a replacement at the time for less than $80 - entirely too much for a $5 need.
Good thing that first company has been "merged" 2 times and inventory all forgotten. I was starting to feel guilty.
For the people that don't know how to use a keyboard without a "windows key" - you don't need it. cntl-esc does the same thing.
I love my Apple Adjustable Keyboard. It has ALPS keys, and is split. with a ADB to USB adapter it's usable with today's hardware. the only bad thing is the location of the F keys
Best keyboard I have found, totally modifiable when it comes toe tilt, split and hight:
www.comparestoreprices.co.uk/images/fu/fujitsu-siemens-fujitsu-kbpc-e--keyboard.jpg
It has soft keys, that sound strange to my coworkes, but I has cured my hands (My thumbs was hurting, but they are much better now)
I have large hands. Size L dish gloves look like latex paint. My choice boils down to one X or two. For the longest time I had the jumbo Mouseman Wheel. Used it until the teflon feet wore off. It's highly sculpted. 45mm to the top of the arch along the inside (left) ridge. Beauty. Unfortunately, very coarse wheel, no side scrolling, no side buttons. Replaced with an MX-500, which is just barely big enough. More buttons, less sculpted. This is good, because I've been mousing left handed for years now. My mouse position is 22cm to the left of the GH divide. On my aging Compaq keyboard, 22cm to the right side of the GH divide reaches the outer edge of the page down/page up keys. My mouse position on the right would be another 18cm further displaced from my centerline, after clearing the numeric keypad.
After at least four years mousing on the left, I'm pretty ambidextrous for mouse work. It's a bit annoying that my thumb buttons are turned outward, but I can live with that. For detail work (pixel touch-up in GIMP, which is a rare task) I reach across with the right hand and drive the mouse tilted. This isn't bad and actually stretches the shoulder in a direction where it could use more work.
It takes a lot of stress off the shoulder and upper arm to keep the mouse tight to the keyboard's home position. At the end of a long day, When your shoulder gets tired, it cooks up a bad deal with the spine: tilt a little bit to the right, please. Any tilt in the spine requires *three* lateral bends, because the ears have this strange idea of keeping the head vertical. You get one tilt out, one tilt back, and a third kink to restore the neck to the vertical axis. That final kink is up in the shoulder or the base of the neck. A very effective method to discover how much you fall into this kind of bad habit is to tape a giant X onto your bare back. Every time you tilt, the tape pulls. It's a shock at first how often this happens. You soon lose some hairs. In fact, it was the only really useful thing I got out of a back therapy program that was too oriented to worker's compensation.
I'm hard on my hands when keyboarding, but rarely experience discomfort. When I do, I cease typing fairly immediately. When I have experienced pain, it's always due to typing with the wrist kinked upward. This especially happened with my first laptop, which wasn't especially thin at the front bezel. Keeping the monitors high enough helps prevent stooping and upward compensation in the wrist. Never had a problem with lateral flex at the wrist. Average width of ribcage with longish forearms and fingers are an advantage I guess. The downside of large hands is that I have to employ the Steve Jobs finger file just to type on the average laptop these days. Ergonomically, most laptop users are completely hosed. The base of my desktop screen is half a meter from the back of keyboard. Larger than average fonts reduce craning. The laptop form factor would be a perfect fit for Yoda, but given his hand structure, he probably uses a Blackberry.
One theory of monitor height is to position the center of the monitor at eye level. Few people do this. The deep reason is that it forces the eyelid to open a bit wider, and this can lead to eye fatigue. The usual recommendation is top of the monitor at eye level. This is high enough to keep the neck and back upright, but low enough not to stress the eyes.
All these things work together to reduce stress on the hands. It's not just a matter of optimal tactile feel. Ergonomics is great place to practice the five whys. Many people latch onto a solution halfway down the why tower, especially when shopping displaces thinking.
Only recently (in the last 4 years) have I quit the desktop thing and moved onto only laptops, but I have to say that the ergonomics are horrid on the last 3 I have bought. I have been typing daily for years now and do not get pain on a desktop with either dvorak or qwerty touchtyping, but on laptops it's easy for me to use bad ergonomic practices. The best thing you can do with ergonomics though has little to do with keyboard, and more to do with desk and adjustable chair height from my experiance. Basically make sure your chair is high enough that your elbows are right on the plane of your keyboard. For neck pain though make sure you aren't looking down at your monitor, or up (like when I tried to use my 42" lcd as a desktop monitor... or way back when I had a tiny monochrome monitor) and you should be good. Mouse pain is the most I get now, but that's because from time to time I use a touchpad, which is murder on my wrists for some things like drag and dropping files.
I've long been a fan of the old IBM M's, but I found that they were making my wrists and hands hurt. A lot. I still have a stack of them all boxed up in one of my closets at home... About 5 or 6 years ago, I bit the bullet and switched to a softer-touch MS Natural Ergo 4000 keyboard. It took me a few weeks to become accustomed to the split, humped keyboard layout. But now, I think it's perfect and perfectly comfortable. I have one here at work on my Mac, one at home on my Mac there, and another on my gaming rig.
There is *no* tactile feedback. In fact, the keys barely make any noise whatsoever, and the feedback is somewhat like pressing your fingers into Jell-o. It's a *HUGE* departure from the old Ms, but I can't say enough good things about these keyboards.
One complaint: I wish MS would make this *exact* keyboard in a Bluetooth model. But they won't, for some reason. They do have a wireless USB version, but it's absolute trash and often has problems with interference. So I stick with the cabled/tethered version.
Good luck in your hunt.
Jason Van Patten
Seriously, get a keyboard with Topre switches. I have a RealForce 86U, and it's the most ergonomic keyboard I've ever used. The switches are silky smooth and even, and actuate long before they bottom out. You can type effortlessly with a feather light touch, no need to hammer on the keys at all. The switches on the Realforce 86U keyboard are also individually weighted for touch typing: the keys that you hit with your pinky fingers only have 30g resistance, the common fingers 45g and keys you tend to hammer harder like space and escape 55g. If you're okay with a japanese layout (with the smaller space bar and euro-style enter key) there are also keyboards with 30g for every key.
I'd also recommend learning to type on Dvorak, it's a lot more comfortable for your hands. No more awkward contortions to type common character combinations, and a lot less finger travel overall. Your typing speed won't change much (ignore that argument for Dvorak) but the increased typing comfort is very well worth it.
Unfortunately the subject is a little misleading, because of how hard it is to get the particular keyboard I'm talking about. I'm lucky enough to have family and friends in Korea, and there was a company (which looks like it went out of business) called ARON Tech or ARON Digital that made mechanical keyboards. One of their models was an ergonomic (split middle) one, which I managed to snag. I love it. When I purchased mine, it ran for about $60 after the exchange rate. The USB version (which is what I should have gotten) ran for about $80, IIRC. Unfortunately it is supposedly tough to find these keyboards in Korea now.
You can see a photo of the keyboard here: http://fv521.egloos.com/2791639
Web archive also has a good set: http://web.archive.org/web/20030202083656/http://arontech.com/
The reason I mention this is because it looks like ARON just farmed out their manufacturing to a Chinese firm, and it appears that you can still get these keyboards:
http://www.diytrade.com/china/2/products/3290484/%E8%AF%9A%E6%8B%9B%E6%B8%B8%E6%88%8F%E9%94%AE%E7%9B%98_%E6%9C%BA%E6%A2%B0%E9%94%AE%E7%9B%98_%E8%A5%BF%E5%8D%97%E5%8C%BA%E5%9F%9F%E4%BB%A3%E7%90%86%E5%8A%A0%E7%9B%9F.html
OR
http://www.fzsky.com/aron/us/Pro_Show.asp?ArticleID=91
I'm also interested in a mechanical ergonomic, specifically for the USB interface. My current mechanical ergo is PS/2, and while it works great, and will for the foreseeable future, I'd also like to have a USB one.
This one-handed chorded keyboard used to be a Slashdot favourite:
http://www.handykey.com/
Probably not incredibly ergonomic, but I've always had it in the back of my mind for situations where I'd need a one-handed keyboard. If people weren't so paranoid about texting, I'd try to replace my car's stickshift knob with one of these ;-P
Here is what you need.
1. Two identical keyboards
2. Latex.
3. Mold release
4. Paintbrushes (low-ish quality)
5. Superglue
a) Put mold release on KB1 (get in all cracks etc).
b) Paint latex on KB1 with an even coat. Do not touch up. Do each area then move on and don't let the brush air dry at all (as it will turn sold).
c) Wait for latex to dry completely (one day should be safe)
d) Check for thickness. (If some parts are way too thin then paint over lightly, as you may wish to see the keys through the latex.
e) Carefully remove the latex skin from KB1.
f) Fit on KB2. Use very small dabs of super glue here and there if it moves around.
This should effectively mute your keys and, make the whole KB more welcoming to the hands.
I use a Goldtouch split keyboard. Nice keys - the split design has a lockable ball-and-socket joint to allow the two halves to be adjusted independently to any angle. There is no numeric pad - if you need one, get a separate USB numeric keypad...
http://www.goldtouch.com/ ...the only downside...$129.
I'm confused. He says "loud" like it's a bad thing?
I'd sell what's left of my soul for an unholy hybrid of a Model M and a Logitech G11/G15 (Gamer keyboard with macro buttons).
Choosing between them sucks.
this one is great!
http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/
The Kinesis ergo contoured is a split concave keyboard that uses cherry brown mechanical key switches. The key layout is programmable, ex to move the right thumb spacebar. This is my work keyboard. I do not know what key switches the other kinesis keyboards use.
In the non split variety that I have and use,
The white ALPS switches in the Northgate Evolution do have a "clack" when you bottom out. You could replace the white sliders with the "cream" rubber-dampened sliders from an Apple Extended Keyboard II. The AEKII is quite inexpensive and easy to find.
First you will learn how to open and reassemble ALPS switches and get (or make) yourself a keycap puller. There are instructional videos on Youtube and info on geekhack.org.
The mod takes a few hours to do, but it is totally worth it.You will still hear the rattle of the key caps and the clicks.
To further cut down on noise, you could put foam inside or under the keyboard. The simplest noise cancellation device would be a large mouse pad under the keyboard.
"We mustn't be caught by surprise by our own advancing technology" -- Aldous Huxley
I used to be an 'exclusive Model M typist'. I started to find that my fingers would be numb after lengthy typing - particularly the outer fingers (pinky and ring finger), or when I was programming (lots of {} [] |, etc.)
Then I got a Thinkpad, and I can't stand any keyboard but the UltraNav. I found out that half my problem (wrist discomfort) wasn't due to the keyboard, but due to having to use a mouse. The Trackpoint/keyboard nipple helped immensely with that.
The key layout on the Ultranav is somewhat shallower than on a typical 104 key keyboard. It's just as wide, but contains more keys in the same space: I've found this to add to efficiency. Specifically, the F keys are about 2/3rds as deep and are closer to the number keys (I can rest my palms and not have to move my wrists to touch them). The navigation block (home/end/delete/pgup/pgdn/insert) is directly above the backspace key, shrunken in a similar fashion to the F keys. prtsc, scrlk, pause are above the F9-F12 keys. The arrow keys are underneath the right shift key.
I should note that I've got relatively large hands - not beefy ones, just large palms and long fingers. It's not cramped. The tactility of the key strokes is, while not similar to a Model M, still somewhat tactile due to the plastic key buckles (similar to the M design, but with plastic). I no longer have the day-end numbness unless I'm doing something stupid, like perl. :P
Anyway, the UltraNav is highly recommended.
As an added note, I also typically have this keyboard in my lap when typing. I've got longer arms and shoulder elevation isn't quite right if I'm using a desk. YMMV, of course, but at 29 this works very well for me for day-in, day-out use.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Ultimately, this is a highly personal choice. What works for one person won't work for another. What Eepok posted above,
I can't buy keyboards online anymore because I just need to test it out myself.
is probably the best advice on the forum. Go the the local computer store and place your hands on some of the keyboards. Even type a few phrases to see how it feels. I will type out a paragraph on the sample keyboard just to see how it feels to type for an extended period. This will really give you an idea how it will feel. You asked a good question, because that may help you narrow down the possible choices. But in the end, you must still try out any given keyboard to see if it works for you.
Slifox also had good advice about looking for an alternative to your mouse. I found using the mouse caused more problems for me than typing ever did. I switched to a large, Kennsington trackball and that worked well for me. But, better than the trackball was the touchpad on my MacBook Pro. I would even suggest giving Apple's Magic Trackpad some consideration. (I don't know if it would work with a non-Apple PC.)
I've gone through several keyboards over the years. I did use one of those ergonomic keyboards for a couple of years, but I really didn't find it all that much of an improvement. I did switch to using a Dvorak keyboard layout, which I have found over the years to be preferable for myself than using the Qwerty layout. My favorite to date? The low-profile keyboard on my MacBook Pro. It's fairly quiet and doesn't require too much force to depress a key, yet offers enough mechanical feedback so you know you have made the keypress. Contrary to this, I know several people who complained that they don't like the Mac keyboard. I haven't tried Apple's newest keyboard style extensively, but I admit it worked better than I thought it would.
Whew! This water sure is cold!
I have a couple of these ergo keyboards, they are some of the best that I've worked with. I have one at work and one for my home office.
I really like this design for a couple of reasons.
The key impact and feedback is a good "medium". I was originally concerned about this since I like a good bit of feedback when I type, but I've come to like it. Its a whole lot better then a lot of the soft spongy cheap keyboards out there.
I have had problems with my wrists for over 10 years. I've especially done a lot of abuse to my right wrist as well with all night FPS games, grappling (martial arts), carrying a large serving tray loaded past the brim one handed at a restaurant, and injuring it while hiking among other things. I've had to wear a brace with restrictive splints a few times over the years. I do invest in quality mice that forms my hand well to not aggravate it. However, I really can't give up my Model M; nothing comes close to the tactile feedback, spacing, and key travel. I've tried to use ergonomic keyboards, but I was never able to find a comfortable position.
The key I have found for my condition and topics on CTS, RTS, and the like is to have your arms strait with your wrists. If there is one thing you take away, do whatever it takes to keep your wrists strait with you arms. There are a combination of things I do that let me do this with a regular keyboard:
1. The keyboard is at least one foot away from the edge of the desk. This makes me stretch out my arms and make them straighter with my wrists.
2. Depending on the angle my arms and wrists are with my keyboard, I adjust my fingers accordingly so they are still on the home row. As a reference, I position everything so my thumb can comfortably strike the spacebar with the edge of the bar making contact halfway between the tip and first knuckle of the outside part of my thumb.
3. Recline my chair to stretch out my arms my arms further to get them closer to a right-angle with my keyboard. I know that this isn't the healthiest approach for the rest of my body nor is it the most professional looking, however it's a small price to pay for being able to use my right hand in daily life without pain, a brace, and drugs.
I know desk space can be at a premium and having the keyboard so far away seem impossible. Get creative with the space and resources you have to achieve a better typing environment. Sometimes HR can be helpful in requisitioning monitor stands to eek out those last six inches or they may just stick you with a useless ergonomic keyboard or worse, a full ergonomic desk and chair; either I wasn't comfortable at all or I kept falling off.
At one company I had a very small cube with a desk that was <=1.5ft. deep. I got a measuring tape and measured out the dimensions needed to elevate my monitors to a comfortable height and would span the width of my little desk. I went to Home Depot and found a laminated board that was sturdy and deep enough; they were nice enough to cut off the ends to my measurements so it would fit width wise and there would be posts on each end to hold it up to the height I needed. For less than the cost of lunch at Taco Bell, I had a solution my employer would never come up with and I didn't even have to use any tools, just some physics and gravity.
I use the Microsoft Natural and added a pair of SmartGlove and the pain is gone.
I've had this keyboard. In fact I had two in 6 months time and both broke down. :P
An no, I don't abuse keyboards - my previous ergonomic keyboard (made by Chicony) lasted 8 years and the only reason I stopped using it was the fact I didn't want to have DIN5->MiniDin6 and MiniDin6->USB adapters at the same time
As far as the 4000's ergonomy goes I liked it.
... Teensy Chordite.
I can't recommend a keyboard but I do know joint pain my Dr diagnosed me with carpal tunnel earlier in the year.
I discovered that Cod liver Oil capsules really help relieve joint pain. I didn't realise how effective it was till I stopped using it for a fortnight and my joint pain returned since then I have been pain free.
I've been recommending it to friends and it seems to be effective.
As treatments go it is cheap and worth trying a daily capsule for a month.
Blarney Quality Restaurant, Plants
There are actually some old Model M keyboards with built-in trackpoints and mouse buttons. I happen to have one downstairs, and it's pretty well executed. The trackpoint doesn't get in the way at all. With that thing, you never have to take your hands off the keyboard at all.
Like most ergonomic questions, this question is pretty hard to answer without you posting your physical dimensions.
The place I used to work for had a ergonomics expert employed full time. She said that most people gravitate to a keyboard that matches their body frame, and that is a good thing. If you have wide shoulders, then a split keyboard is probably best for you.
Free unix account: freeshell.org
A couple of things:
1: Treat the charger carefully. The contacts on it too easily drop into the case.
2: The battery in the MX is the same as one of the other cordless ones, just that its battery isn't removable.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
* Microsoft Natural Keyboard 4000 (the one nice thing they ever made)
* with the riser that tilts the keyboard _up_ at the front, down at the back
* armrests so elbow & wrists are aligned
* apt-get install rsibreak
* use j/k for scrolling text
* put goo onto arms & hands at night; optionally leave it on over the week-end (in Germany, Enelbin works best for me)
DON'T USE A TOUCH-PHONE WITH ONE HAND, ONLY. NEVER EVER. Hold with one hand, touch with the other. Do _not_ use thumb across device.
Hope some of this helps someone who suffers the same fate.
"Truly Designed for Human Comfort and a major update to the computer keyboard in over 140 years."
Whenever people Use Lots of Capital Letters for no good reason as part of a sentence that doesn't parse at all, it makes me rather uncomfortable with the prospect of committing $200 for something that might never materialize. Yes, of course I can decipher what the message was supposed to have been here, but the copywriter or editor failed utterly on this one.
The layout looks pretty severely obnoxious too. It would take a long time to get used to these key positions, and it would be difficult to move to a conventional keyboard smoothly.
I'll stick with my Microsoft Natural 4000. I used one of the original, early '90s Naturals until this thing came along, and they have finally offered a worthy successor. I think mechanical switches are over-rated anyway. Yes, the Natural felt squishy in the beginning, because I, too, was a big fan of clicky keyboards. This used to be the one thing about the Natural that really disappointed me. I got used to it, and I got 8-10 million words out of my original Natural before I finally wore it out.
So far, so good. I have to wear night splints, and I'm definitely having problems with my wrists, but I haven't had to have the surgery yet. I'd just as soon not have a surgeon sever a major ligament in my wrist if I can possibly avoid it.
Keyboards are cheap. Find one you like, then buy 2, and use 1 with each hand. They will be much cheaper than 1 "ergonomic" keyboard. Position them wherever is appropriate for each hand. Move them around regularly if you like. You can hit the spacebar with the thumb that works. Having 1 keyboard for each hand lets you open your arms as wide as you want and open up the body and shoulders, which can give great relief to the nerves. If you put your hands in front of you comfortably, you will probably find that they are too far apart to use the same keyboard.
The Apple Wireless Keyboard is small (no number pad) and thin and is easily positioned low, e.g. in your lap. And of course it is wireless, so positioning 1 for each hand may be easier with it. They are lightweight and extremely rigid (1 piece of aluminum) so you could attach them vertically to the sides of a chair or almost anywhere. You can also use 1 of them and 1 MacBook at the same time and that is 2 identical keyboards in a very portable setup.
I find the position of the modifier keys on the Mac to be more ergonomic than with a PC and Windows. Using Command for common shortcuts instead of Control encourages you to hit Command with your thumb, not pinkie, as with Control. So even if you are using Windows, you can swap the Control/Windows key keycodes and your shortcuts for New, Open, Save, Cut, Copy, Paste, etc. all become the original Mac shortcuts and hand positions, so you can do them with left thumb and forefinger.
I also prefer the huge Mac trackpad to a mouse in every way. The large trackpad lets you open your hand up, not scrunch it up as with a mouse. The gestures are very natural. Scrolling with 2 fingers is especially natural. You change hand positions naturally as you work, you don't have one clenched hand position the whole time.
Anybody suffering from pain or problems from typing need to examine their situation instead of looking for miracle keyboards. I know several people that complain of wrist pain after typing, and when I watch them type it is very obvious. Some people feel the need to drive their fingers down with such force its as if they are trying to push the keys through the desk. Others try to type as fast as possible all the time. Biggest thing to do is lighten up on the key presses and realize you can probably type more content in the long run by slowing down so you don't have to stop rub your hands or wrists frequently from short periods of aggressive spastic typing. Read several guides on proper posture and techniques to eliminate RSS an actually follow their suggestions before blowing $300+ on some "ergonomic" keyboard.