How a Leather Cover Crashes the Kindle

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How a Leather Cover Crashes the Kindle

Posted by ryuzaki0 on Tuesday December 21, 2010 @07:49AM from the still-no-antennagate dept.

An anonymous reader writes "Amazon has started offering refunds to Kindle owners who own the unlit leather case who claim that it causes their Kindles to reboot, but are playing dumb on the cause: "our engineering team is looking into this." People have been wondering how a leather cover could possibly crash an electronic device, and why is Amazon offering money back if they don't think there's a problem? It seems that some of the folks over at Connectify have figured it out, and it's a doozy!"

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Yikes! by Iphtashu+Fitz · 2010-12-21 07:51 · Score: 1, Insightful

Wow. That's a pretty major design flaw.
1. Re:Yikes! by yincrash · 2010-12-21 07:56 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  It looks like a flaw on the part of the cover maker. Amazon could put some amperage limiting circuitry, but I imagine it would raise the cost.
2. Re:Yikes! by skids · 2010-12-21 07:56 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  ...Also a good reason why you shouldn't post a list of "57 Lamest Tech Moments of 2010" before 2010 is over.
  
  --
  Someone had to do it.
3. Re:Yikes! by PIBM · 2010-12-21 07:57 · Score: 1
  
  Well, it`s not the cover which is at fault, but rather the jumper between the power and ground when putting it on ;)
4. Re:Yikes! by flaming+error · 2010-12-21 07:59 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Maybe they can substitute the metal now connecting the hooks with extremely fine steel wool. Then everyone will remember it's the Kindle.
5. Re:Yikes! by microcars · 2010-12-21 08:01 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  not owning a Kindle I don't understand why there is even a need to have the two "hooks" connected in any way by a piece of conductive material.
  They are not powering a lamp, they just keep the Kindle attached to the leather case.
  
  --
  I like microcars
6. Re:Yikes! by by+(1706743) · 2010-12-21 08:04 · Score: 1
  
  Seeing as the cover causes the Kindle to reboot (and not burst into flames), there's likely a current-limiter of some sort on the Kindle -- small current limiters are pretty simple to make. I suspect a shorted out Li-Ion could cause a lot more damage than a simple reboot...
7. Re:Yikes! by camperslo · 2010-12-21 08:05 · Score: 1
  
  Wow. That's a pretty major design flaw.
  Yeah. At least it doesn't start a fire? Hopefully there's something between the battery and the terminals to limit the current to a safe value. I wonder if people could cut the strap or whatever is connecting the two hooks? I suppose then they might fall out or something. At least an external cover is easily replaced and they're willing to do it.
  I suppose later some may complain that the occasional shorting of the power shortened the battery life so it should be replaced for free...
  Queue the people ready to flame on other vendors' hardware.
8. Re:Yikes! by RollingThunder · 2010-12-21 08:05 · Score: 1
  
  Or they could just have the two hooks not part of the same piece of metal.
  Get a sufficient air gap, and there's no circuit.
9. Re:Yikes! by MoonBuggy · 2010-12-21 08:05 · Score: 2
  
  I'm assuming it was done simply for price - the case with the light uses the hooks for power, so rather than having two entirely separate designs they just left out the light and painted over the conductive parts (and apparently didn't do a very good job of it...). Probably cheaper to mould 10,000 pairs of hooks out of metal and then paint over half than to make 5,000 out of metal and 5,000 out of plastic.
  It's a problem with the case design, not the Kindle, as far as I can see.
10. Re:Yikes! by commodore64_love · 2010-12-21 08:05 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah they're lucky the leather didn't catch on fire, but I suppose 12(?) volts isn't enough to make the metal hooks/jumper heat up to ignition point.
  
  --
  "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
11. Re:Yikes! by Ephemeriis · 2010-12-21 08:06 · Score: 1
  
  It looks like a flaw on the part of the cover maker. Amazon could put some amperage limiting circuitry, but I imagine it would raise the cost.
  That'd certainly be a more permanent and universal fix...
  But I think something easier would simply be to require that manufacturers use plastic for those clips instead of metal.
  
  --
  "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
12. Re:Yikes! by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2010-12-21 08:08 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  The flaw is certainly in the cover(using two physically separated hooks, rather than a single piece of metal, would not have been rocket surgery and would have provided dielectric strength high enough to resist pretty much any voltage that wouldn't also kill the user.) However, we really have no way of knowing whether the cover maker failed to follow amazon's orders, whether amazon failed to issue the correct orders, or who was responsible for considering the situation where the + hook and the - hook are not separated by an LED and current limiting resistor.
  
  If amazon didn't think about it, or naively thought that a thin layer of cheap paint would do, they fucked up. If the cover maker looked at a design document that said "Connecting hooks must be electrically separate" and said "eh, one painted part is cheaper than two physically disconnected parts, paint'll do." then they fucked up.
13. Re:Yikes! by wed128 · 2010-12-21 08:10 · Score: 2
  
  1 volt is enough if you can source enough current....
  remember folks, VOLTAGE != POWER
14. Re:Yikes! by biryokumaru · 2010-12-21 08:11 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  If you RTFA, you'll see the hooks are totally different. You're in the right vein, though. The unlit case looks like it uses a single strip of cut metal for the attachment hooks, a pretty simple design, and much cheaper than making hooks that aren't shorts.
  My guess is the only reason they're painted black is because they were aware of this problem and thought that would fix it good and cheap. Or the paint is simple corrosion prevention and they didn't know...
  
  --
  When you're afraid to download music illegally in your own home, then the terrorists have won!
15. Re:Yikes! by The+MAZZTer · 2010-12-21 08:12 · Score: 1
  
  No biggie, it's not like it's a round number so they can always up it to 58.
16. Re:Yikes! by fucket · 2010-12-21 08:14 · Score: 1
  
  On one version of the cover, they apparently are powering a lamp.
17. Re:Yikes! by petes_PoV · 2010-12-21 08:15 · Score: 1
  
  Then it would have to be 58 lamest tech moments
  
  --
  politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
18. Re:Yikes! by mikeee · 2010-12-21 08:17 · Score: 2
  
  But that case was designed for the Kindle 2, which (I think?) *doesn't* put power across those pins. If that's the case, this is mostly a Kindle 3 design flaw - they should have made the slot spacing different so you couldn't use a Kindle 2 case.
19. Re:Yikes! by tgatliff · 2010-12-21 08:19 · Score: 1
  
  I think Amazon (or the vendor) is realizing now that a $0.02 resistor is cheaper than using paint as a resistor.
  I am biased I admit, but this also might be what you get when you engineer products using the lowest paid bidder. I mean by the time you get thru all of the layers of middlemen down to the designer, it ends up being a kid just out of college saying "oops.... Sorry about that boss. I never thought about what would happen if the paint came off"...
20. Re:Yikes! by mangu · 2010-12-21 08:20 · Score: 1
  
  Steel wool will catch fire with any battery. When I was a kid I used to do it with 9 volts because the terminals are both on the same side, but I experimented with a 1.5 V C cell and a bit of wire and it worked.
21. Re:Yikes! by vlm · 2010-12-21 08:21 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  It looks like a flaw on the part of the cover maker. Amazon could put some amperage limiting circuitry, but I imagine it would raise the cost.
  Look closely at the dudes meter, its 2 megohms not 2 ohms. Lets guess its a single cell li-poly at 3.7 volts. Thats a smokin' current of 74 microamps. What, a quarter of a milliwatt, something like that?
  Good luck building a 74 microamp fuse. I once built a microwave preamp in the 80s and static fried the active device, that probably was a 74 microamp fuse, in a weird sort of way.... Active current limiting at that level is kind of a mystery to me... I suppose you'd need a mosfet off resistance in the hundreds of megohms since the load impedance is in the single megohm range, but PC board leakage currents are going to be a problem at that level. Leakage currents thru the plastic kindle case would probably be in the microamp range?
  
  --
  "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
22. Re:Yikes! by 140Mandak262Jamuna · 2010-12-21 08:21 · Score: 1
  
  But it is actually 59. 58 th is the Kindle metal hooks. 59th is slashdot posting 57 lamest moments before the year is complete.
  
  --
  sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
23. Re:Yikes! by Cwix · 2010-12-21 08:21 · Score: 1
  
  Instead of physically changing things, I wonder if they could use a software tweak to determine if there is a short, and just shut off the power to the connections if there was.
  
  --
  You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
24. Re:Yikes! by Dunbal · 2010-12-21 08:23 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah sure blame the cover maker - but someone had to approve it.
  
  --
  Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
25. Re:Yikes! by Khyber · 2010-12-21 08:24 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  You suppose wrong.
  We used AA batteries in prison to light cigarettes when they took away access to the wall sockets.
  
  --
  Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
26. Re:Yikes! by Jeff+DeMaagd · 2010-12-21 08:27 · Score: 1
  
  I don't know if software can solve this problem if it pulls down the voltage rails so much that the CPU doesn't operate reliably, remember, it is causing stalls and reboots. They probably would have to change hardware to add more robust power protection to those connectors.
27. Re:Yikes! by morari · 2010-12-21 08:28 · Score: 1
  
  Ha, my Nook just keeps looking better and better! :P
  
  --
  "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
28. Re:Yikes! by Mr.+Freeman · 2010-12-21 08:31 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  That's actually a terrible idea. Limiting the current through the hooks would still result in lots power being wasted, just not enough to crash the device. Over time this will cause the battery to discharge completely, which results in the owner charging it, which leads to greatly reduced battery lifetime.
  
  If you run your batteries between 20% and 80% charge, you get orders of magnitude more life out of them compared to running them between 10% and 95% charge.
  
  --
  -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
29. Re:Yikes! by harrkev · 2010-12-21 08:33 · Score: 1
  
  I am confused (being a Nook owner). Does the Kindle have contacts on the side, so that a light can leech power from the Kindle itself? If the case on the Kindle is simple, solid, unconductive plastic, this should NOT happen...
  
  --
  "-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
30. Re:Yikes! by NoahsMyBro · 2010-12-21 08:37 · Score: 2
  
  I've got a Kindle and case from before the new version, with the possible lighted case, existed. Obviously I can't know whether or not the lighted version had been conceived when my case was designed.
  But the hooks on my Kindle cover ARE metal, and ARE painted black. I assumed (& still believe) they were metal instead of plastic due to the increased strength of the metal hooks, and that they were coated/painted for esthetic reasons - the hooks feel more comfortable if you touch them, there is less chance they'll scratch the Kindle as you attach it to the cover, and they look more elegant, all perfectly reasonable reasons.
  I don't think this is a case of anybody taking a shortcut somewhere to lessen the cost of anything.
31. Re:Yikes! by biryokumaru · 2010-12-21 08:37 · Score: 1
  
  Yes.
  
  --
  When you're afraid to download music illegally in your own home, then the terrorists have won!
32. Re:Yikes! by DreamArcher · 2010-12-21 08:38 · Score: 1
  
  Good call, but it still indicates a problem and will certainly vary depending on the amount of paint scratched off. I assume he's using a cover that has not yet started causing problems.
33. Re:Yikes! by bws111 · 2010-12-21 08:38 · Score: 1
  
  Looking at the closeup of the hook you can clearly see the leather cover under the hole, so it doesn't look like the two hooks are connected with anything at all.
34. Re:Yikes! by jamesh · 2010-12-21 08:43 · Score: 1
  
  Look closely at the dudes meter, its 2 megohms not 2 ohms. Lets guess its a single cell li-poly at 3.7 volts. Thats a smokin' current of 74 microamps. What, a quarter of a milliwatt, something like that?
  You do have to look pretty closely (and RTFA in the first place of course :) but there's definitely an M there. That doesn't seem enough to induce any sort of fault in the thing, especially if it's a power output to drive a light where the resistance of the light bulb would be much less. Maybe scraping more paint off lowers the resistance significantly...
35. Re:Yikes! by jgagnon · 2010-12-21 08:47 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Breakdown: The lighted case gets its power from the connectors that hold the Kindle in the case. The unlit case has these two connectors physically connected even though there is no light. Putting the Kindle into the unlit case where the metal contacts are clean causes a short between the two connectors.
  The ability to get power through those connector points was by design in the Kindle or the lighted case never would have been able to be designed the way it was.
  It sounds to me like the engineer(s) involved with the unlit case did not communicate well with the Kindle engineers or vise versa.
  
  --
  Remember to maintain your supply of /facepalm oil to prevent chafing.
36. Re:Yikes! by pclminion · 2010-12-21 08:50 · Score: 2
  
  "If you can source enough current..." as if you have any control over the current. It's a simple damn equation, people. V = I*R. For a given conductor, if you put one volt across it, a current V/R will flow through it. No, you can't magically wish for a higher current at the same voltage. Nor could you achieve an arbitrary voltage at a given current. If you can control both current and voltage, then BY DEFINITION you are changing the resistance.
  Another one of my least favorites: "It's the current that kills, not the voltage." Actually, it's the stoppage of your heart that kills you, along with possibly the boiling and cooking of your internal organs. People take these sorts of sayings and end up making stupid decisions.
37. Re:Yikes! by jgagnon · 2010-12-21 08:52 · Score: 1
  
  Or... blame both?
  
  --
  Remember to maintain your supply of /facepalm oil to prevent chafing.
38. Re:Yikes! by bws111 · 2010-12-21 08:52 · Score: 1
  
  But that would be a completely different design. Not only would they have to put paint on the hooks, but they would intentionally have to tie the two hooks together with a piece of wire or something, which obviously is not done in the lighted version. That makes no sense.
39. Re:Yikes! by Sanat · 2010-12-21 08:53 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  His fingers appear to be touching both metal probes of the meter so 2 meg-ohms seems about right for his internal resistance.
  
  --
  And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make
40. Re:Yikes! by spun · 2010-12-21 09:15 · Score: 1
  
  Oh man, I thought "That can't be right, no one who actually owns a multimeter would be that dumb." But then I went and looked at the pictures, and sure enough, dude is touching the metal probes.
  
  --
  - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
41. Re:Yikes! by sjames · 2010-12-21 09:23 · Score: 1
  
  That's 2 meg with poor contact. With a larger contact surface and as the paint wears (as it certainly will) the resistance probably goes down. Worse, it probably reaches a point where minor jostling makes and breaks a good connection causing voltage spikes. That's why the report is that it crashes rather than the battery goes dead fast (if there's a current limiter) or it catches fire (if there's not a current limiter).
42. Re:Yikes! by sjames · 2010-12-21 09:25 · Score: 1
  
  Huh? So it's better for the battery if it's a dead short?
43. Re:Yikes! by sjames · 2010-12-21 09:28 · Score: 1
  
  Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
44. Re:Yikes! by neerolyte · 2010-12-21 09:29 · Score: 1
  
  The Kindle 2 and 3 do have different slot spacings. The devices themselves are actually different sizes despite having the same size screens. You can't put a leather case from a Kindle 2 on a Kindle 3 anyway.
  The above is based on observations I've made on the Kindle 2 & 3 + matching leather cases that my partner and I have.
  I'm guessing someone somewhere had actually though through making them physically different for this reason, but when it came to manufacturing them that little gem of an idea got lost somewhere.
45. Re:Yikes! by gravis777 · 2010-12-21 09:34 · Score: 1
  
  The question is, does the metal strip need to be there? I mean, it sounds like a quick fix would be to get out some handy-dandy metal cutter and cut the strip. Yeah, it might make the inside look like crap, but no one is going to see the inside, as the cover will be on the case. So, cut out the metal strip, leaving the hooks, and problem should go away.
46. Re:Yikes! by alanthenerd · 2010-12-21 09:39 · Score: 1
  
  I bet he gets lots of readings at about 2 meg-ohms. Reminds me of this guy I know who when he got his first multimeter thought the thing was faulty when he got sparks trying to test the voltage of a battery "with it on the A setting."
47. Re:Yikes! by mysidia · 2010-12-21 09:53 · Score: 1
  
  It looks like a flaw on the part of the cover maker. Amazon could put some amperage limiting circuitry, but I imagine it would raise the cost.
  And it would still hurt the battery life. How about a little switch on the Kindle to "turn the light off" that is set to 'off' by default?
48. Re:Yikes! by icebike · 2010-12-21 10:20 · Score: 1
  
  Yup. Measuring himself. Lol
  How to make a fool of yourself on the internet and post photos of the process.
  Two meg-ohms wouldn't constitute either a short or a battery drain to the kindle's whimpy 3.something volt battery.
  
  --
  Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
49. Re:Yikes! by icebike · 2010-12-21 10:25 · Score: 1
  
  Except that the pictures do not show any connection at all.
  The meter readings are the in Mega-ohms, and he is measuring his own body. That is a typical reading on the 200Meg setting on any multimeter, measuring from one hand thru the body to the other hand.
  Resistance that high still represents an OPEN circuit (not a short) as seen from the kindle's 3+ volt battery.
  The guy proved nothing more than his incompetence with a basic meter.
  
  --
  Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
50. Re:Yikes! by volpe · 2010-12-21 10:27 · Score: 1
  
  What were you in for?
51. Re:Yikes! by RobertLTux · 2010-12-21 10:55 · Score: 1
  
  a suggestion for folks that want to know this kind of stuff
  http://www.allaboutcirctuits.com/
  download and read the books (yeah all each like 500 pages) and you will land up knowing this kind of stuff
  (hint you want to read the DC books first)
  
  --
  Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
52. Re:Yikes! by Khyber · 2010-12-21 10:59 · Score: 1
  
  Conspiracy to Witness Auto Burglary.
  
  --
  Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
53. Re:Yikes! by mweather · 2010-12-21 11:16 · Score: 1
  
  The lighted version may very well safely bleed any static charge, precisely because it is electrically connected to the cover.
  Technically speaking, this is also electrically connected to the cover.
54. Re:Yikes! by cdrguru · 2010-12-21 11:35 · Score: 1
  
  As a Kindle 2 owner I can tell you the same hooks exist on the Kindle 2 cover. It is the same design and the construction of the cover is such that it would be very, very difficult to electrically isolate the two hooks and continue to have the hooks firmly attached to the cover.
  Now the new K3 lighted cover is a completely different animal and it sounds like they decided to address the lack of a light with the K3 by having it power an external light. Unfortunately, the K3 unlighted cover is pretty much the K2 cover design - makes sense because the two devices are nearly identical.
  Except someone missed the part about the power being connected through the cover hooks. I'm leaning towards the black coating being intended as an insulator and it is failing. As expected - the cover hooks get a huge amount of wear.
55. Re:Yikes! by MrQuacker · 2010-12-21 11:51 · Score: 1
  
  How is that a prison worthy offense? Or is it just lawyerese for "getaway lookout"?
56. Re:Yikes! by by+(1706743) · 2010-12-21 12:06 · Score: 1
  
  Get a sufficient air gap, and there's no circuit.
  There's still a circuit -- it just looks like this: ---| |--- ;)
57. Re:Yikes! by element-o.p. · 2010-12-21 12:32 · Score: 1
  
  I used to have a Gerber Multitool with a chunk of metal missing from a) naively trying to remove the positive terminal first on a 24V airplane battery and b) unintentionally touching the Multitool to the aluminum frame of the airplane in which the battery was installed. The missing metal mysteriously appeared on my jacket almost simultaneously. Weird :) Also curious is how I never, ever removed the positive terminal first on any automotive or aircraft battery after that experience.
  
  --
  MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
58. Re:Yikes! by dgatwood · 2010-12-21 12:48 · Score: 1
  
  Exactly. Conductor-insulator-conductor is the very definition of a capacitor.
  
  --
  Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
59. Re:Yikes! by julesh · 2010-12-21 13:04 · Score: 1
  
  1 volt is enough if you can source enough current....
  remember folks, VOLTAGE != POWER
  No, but P=V^2/R. In this situation, R is fixed.
60. Re:Yikes! by mkiwi · 2010-12-21 13:29 · Score: 1
  
  That's actually a terrible idea. Limiting the current through the hooks would still result in lots power being wasted, just not enough to crash the device. Over time this will cause the battery to discharge completely, which results in the owner charging it, which leads to greatly reduced battery lifetime.
  I feel compelled to reply to this post, because with modern power distribution methods, it is simply incorrect.
  On board power systems on laptops, idevices, kindles, etc. typically have a power distribution chip on their batteries. The chip senses what the resistance outside the battery's terminals is (as in an ohm-meter), and adjusts a special type of power regulator to match the specification that is coded inside the power distribution chip.
  Thus, a good product will turn off its outputs if it senses a short circuit. Adding the extra circuitry costs pennies for mass-produced units like Kindles, since the power sensing and distribution circuit can be implemented on a single chip.
  (IAAEE)
61. Re:Yikes! by Kagura · 2010-12-21 14:08 · Score: 1
  
  You mean the Good Samaritan Law, that thing they got George, Jerry, Elaine, and Kosmo on.
62. Re:Yikes! by bhartman34 · 2010-12-21 14:09 · Score: 1
  
  Can't they simply change what they make the hooks out of to something non-conductive, or put a coating on the hooks that won't wear off easily?
63. Re:Yikes! by Simon80 · 2010-12-21 14:41 · Score: 1
  
  You seem to be blissfully unaware of the difference between a theoretical, ideal voltage source, and any voltage source in the real world. A real voltage source cannot provide unlimited current, and as the current drawn by a load goes up, the voltage across the source will drop.
64. Re:Yikes! by noidentity · 2010-12-21 15:46 · Score: 1
  
  Also a good reason why you shouldn't post a list of "57 Lamest Tech Moments of 2010" before 2010 is over.
  
  Ahhh, but in the tech tradition, we can simply claim that "57" was in base 11, thereby raising the count by 5.
65. Re:Yikes! by Mr.+Freeman · 2010-12-21 17:06 · Score: 1
  
  That won't work. The kindle runs off of the battery too. If the battery supplies ANY power then it will all go through the metal hook (a metal bar having a resistance close to 0) and none through the kindle. Even if the metal hook had a resistance high enough to allow a non-zero voltage across the actual circuits of the kindle, you'd still be wasting power.
  
  Long story short, if the battery cuts power then the kindle stops working. Thus, this really isn't a solution to anything.
  
  The real solution would be to make a cover that DOESN'T SHORT OUT THE BATTERY.
  
  --
  -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
66. Re:Yikes! by MichaelSmith · 2010-12-21 20:39 · Score: 1
  
  Then there was this blind guy who tested every component he used with a meter and found that his designs would never work in production with normal tolerance resistors.
  
  --
  http://michaelsmith.id.au
67. Re:Yikes! by Neil+Boekend · 2010-12-21 21:48 · Score: 1
  
  Assuming the design is the same (except for the light) the lighted version would not work if the contacts were short circuited. Combined with the info that he connected the leads with his hands and the 2M Ohm measured (not a short circuit. Even if he didn't connect the leads) my guess would be this is not the cause.
  3.7 V over 2MOhm (The DX battery voltage) is 0.00000185 A. This would cause a 0.5Ah (I doubt they would put something that low into it) battery to drain in 250,000 hours. Not a short.
  
  --
  Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
68. Re:Yikes! by Neil+Boekend · 2010-12-21 21:52 · Score: 1
  
  But somewhere in my education they told me a capacitor would not conduct DC current very well.
  
  --
  Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
69. Re:Yikes! by Neil+Boekend · 2010-12-21 21:55 · Score: 1
  
  Blame Canada!
  
  --
  Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
70. Re:Yikes! by Neil+Boekend · 2010-12-21 22:01 · Score: 1
  
  Stealing AA batteries of course!
  
  --
  Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
71. Re:Yikes! by disi · 2010-12-21 22:01 · Score: 1
  
  Kindle 3 here and the leather case with lights.
  Using it for a month now and never had any problems. It's just genius to read in bed :) I never remove the Kindle from the leather case...
72. Re:Yikes! by Peet42 · 2010-12-22 00:15 · Score: 1
  
  I once used a friend's meter and returned it to him on the "A" setting. (It was a cheap meter, and switching from "V" to "A" involved moving one of the probe leads into a different socket) He didn't notice, and later stuck it across the mains in a terminal to see if the fuse had blown. Apparently it was very (albeit briefly) pretty, and I owed him a new set of probes. :-/
73. Re:Yikes! by hazydave · 2010-12-22 02:39 · Score: 1
  
  Actually, its worse with a Lithium battery. Yes, a partially cycles Lithium cell seems to last much longer, just as the NiMh cells used in hybrid cars. iPhone owners experience this with their non-replaceable iPhone cells... if you run the iPhone down all the way each day, it won't last out your AT&T contract. If you charge it regularly, it does.
  The big problem is that completely discharging a Lithium cell can damage it. One of the contacts typically acts as a parasitic reverse-polarity battery and consumes itself, below a certain level. Most Lithium-cell gear will shut off power entirely before this happens. No idea if the case contact on a Kindle run though power management, or just off the battery though a current limiter (resistor or some other device).
  
  --
  -Dave Haynie
74. Re:Yikes! by hazydave · 2010-12-22 02:43 · Score: 1
  
  It's not a continuous metal bar... that's why finding this is kind of tricky.
  There are two clips, and they slide against each other, with a spring tensioning the top clip to its resting position. I think you have see wear on the hidden metal parts (within the case), not just on the contact tabs, before any significant current will flow. And even this, it's only when things are held just-so. These cases are blamed for crashing the processor, not taking the whole Kindle down, exploding batteries, or other evil you'd expect if this were a constant short circuit.
  
  --
  -Dave Haynie
75. Re:Yikes! by hazydave · 2010-12-22 02:47 · Score: 1
  
  The ultimate current-limiting circuitry -- an open circuit -- is nearly free. That seems to be the intended purpose of the paint, and it works, as long as the paint stays in place.
  I think the problem is that they're re-using metal parts from the Kindle2 or some other cover, where this didn't matter. So changing that in any significant way isn't free. In particular, going to plastic. The plastic itself is very cheap, but making a mold for it will runs in the tens of thousands of dollars. They certainly have the volume to justify that, but apparently, a little paint seemed like a simpler idea.
  
  --
  -Dave Haynie
76. Re:Yikes! by hazydave · 2010-12-22 02:49 · Score: 1
  
  Actually, R is variable. As shipped, R is very, very high....to high to measure with a conventional ohmmeter. As the paint wears off, R is decreasing. It seems to vary according to how the whole assembly is held, too, just worn pain may not be enough to cause problems.
  
  --
  -Dave Haynie
77. Re:Yikes! by ultranova · 2010-12-22 03:13 · Score: 2
  
  Wow. That's a pretty major design flaw.
  
  I wouldn't know, since the earlier blog entry has been retroactively changed to advertize Connectify, censoring the original content. Whether doing this on an article about the aptly named Kindle for Remote Book Burning is purposeful irony or not I cannot say.
  
  --
  Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
78. Re:Yikes! by Khyber · 2010-12-22 03:19 · Score: 2
  
  Yep, in Mississippi, basically I was charged for having a cell phone and not reporting a crime I was present for because I was too goddamned drunk and passed out in the back of their truck.
  What's fucked up is if I had actually stolen something from the vehicle in question, my charge would be dropped down by 3 years.
  Mississippi needs to be nuked from orbit, just to make sure such obvious problems never happen again. Wipe out Sheriff Riley in Hernando County, Wipe out Judge George B. Ready for his corruption. He knew my lawyer wasn't qualified to represent me, and he let her do so anyways. He needs to feel at LEAST *ONE* of the TWO deaths I had to experience due to his ass.
  
  --
  Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
79. Re:Yikes! by Khyber · 2010-12-22 03:39 · Score: 1
  
  BTW, when i say we outnumber them by double, that means by any tested and counted city population.
  They can't possibly pacify us wherever we spring up without risking full civil war.
  
  --
  Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
80. Re:Yikes! by pclminion · 2010-12-22 04:31 · Score: 1
  
  Wow, you've learned that batteries have internal resistances, congratulations. Once again, V = I*R. Always.
81. Re:Yikes! by npistentis · 2010-12-22 05:16 · Score: 1
  
  I've been noticing this for about a month, and haven't had the time to research the cause. It sucks the most when it crashes after you've read a few hundred pages, and the thing forgets where you are in the book. Good to know I'm not alone and that there's apparently some sort of remediation available...
  
  --
  Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!
82. Re:Yikes! by Simon80 · 2010-12-22 05:19 · Score: 1
  
  Actually, I knew this already, but I chose to give you the benefit of the doubt about whether you were merely ignorant, or being condescendingly pedantic. Now I see it's definitely the latter.
83. Re:Yikes! by Phoghat · 2010-12-22 09:23 · Score: 1
  
  I was going to buy that cover and did some investigating. It's all over the Kindle forums how it causes the Kindle to reset itself very often. I researched it because of the way it attaches itself to the kindle: 2 metal tabs are inserted into 2 holes in the device. It didn't sound like a good idea to me.
  
  --
  Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
84. Re:Yikes! by Nyder · 2010-12-22 10:01 · Score: 1
  
  If you RTFA, you'll see the hooks are totally different. You're in the right vein, though. The unlit case looks like it uses a single strip of cut metal for the attachment hooks, a pretty simple design, and much cheaper than making hooks that aren't shorts.
  My guess is the only reason they're painted black is because they were aware of this problem and thought that would fix it good and cheap. Or the paint is simple corrosion prevention and they didn't know...
  Wish i could read the original article, seeing as both the links don't say anything like this.
  
  --
  Be seeing you...
85. Re:Yikes! by Mr.+Freeman · 2010-12-22 10:54 · Score: 1
  
  The problem here is that the contacts already have safeties. They're shielded contacts that are only accessible by sticking thin strips of metal into the device. This is much safer than, say, a car battery with exposed terminals. You suggest that, rather than tell people not to stick thin strips of metal into shielded electrical connectors, we should redesign the entire kindle to put in circuitry that limits the power draw to safe levels in the even someone goes completely out of their way to defeat the safety feature. Ridiculous.
  
  Personally, I think it's stupid that power is being supplied by these mechanical connectors, but more circuitry is still a stupid idea. If you really want to redesign the kindle then a much better solution would be to make an electrical connector to supply power to the cover separate from the mechanical hooks.
  Of course, this still wouldn't solve the problem because there's already a lot of kindles out there with the current electrical connectors.
  
  Amazon is already issuing a refund for the cover, so it's much easier to redesign the cover and exchange it via the current program. Redesigning the kindle would take a lot longer and then amazon would have to set up an exchange system for that as well.
  
  I'm all for safety features. I'm one of the biggest safety "nazis" with regard to safety around electromechanical devices. (Particularly robots, as that's where I do most of my work) But at some point it's no longer "safety first" and it becomes "safety for the purpose of seeing how many times we can say the word 'safety'".
  
  --
  -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
86. Re:Yikes! by sjames · 2010-12-22 17:34 · Score: 1
  
  A small resistor would be adequate. There may BE one for all we know since the devices did NOT have an extreme reaction to the intermittent short.
  I'm not claiming Amazon needs to do a massive redesign or recall or anything, it's just a bit of thinking out loud.
87. Re:Yikes! by biryokumaru · 2010-12-24 02:38 · Score: 1
  
  Well then, don't use links. The hooks are shown with jpegs.
  
  --
  When you're afraid to download music illegally in your own home, then the terrorists have won!
88. Re:Yikes! by Hognoxious · 2010-12-24 06:41 · Score: 1
  
  I did a quick back-of-a-napkin calculation. If the battery's voltage and capacity (in ampere-hours) are equal it would drain it. In about two centuries.
  Some are mentioning below that he's touching the terminals. If there is a decent connection between the hooks that that won't make any difference. When you have a large and a small resistor in parallel, the larger one can be more or less ignored.
  
  --
  Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Not unprecedented by betterunixthanunix · 2010-12-21 07:54 · Score: 4, Interesting

Lest we forget:

http://ftp.sunet.se/jargon/html/magic-story.html

--
Palm trees and 8
1. Re:Not unprecedented by spun · 2010-12-21 07:55 · Score: 2
  
  That really was "magic" compared to this, though. This is just a plain old short circuit.
  
  --
  - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
2. Re:Not unprecedented by nomadic · 2010-12-21 07:56 · Score: 1
  
  WHOA the ftp.sunet.se server is still around? I haven't seen that in years...
3. Re:Not unprecedented by Anonymous Coward · 2010-12-21 08:02 · Score: 1
  
  That really was "magic" compared to this, though. This is just a plain old short circuit.
  That story isn't all special either. The switch was there to discharge static buildup on the case. Something inside the computer wasn't properly grounded and flipping the switch made the connection to ground complete, thereby discharging any static. This would also cause the computer to crash given a large enough potential difference, and where the static buildup was.
  This would make sense had it been a fault of the power supply.
4. Re:Not unprecedented by tacktick · 2010-12-21 08:05 · Score: 1
  
  Did you have a "Get off mah lawn!" moment?
5. Re:Not unprecedented by mswhippingboy · 2010-12-21 08:22 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  Reminds me of an incident I encountered back in the late '70s in Pensacola, Fl. We had an IBM 4341 mainframe in our data-center that would just shut down regularly every Friday night, around the same time. We had IBM SEs come in and pour over the logs, week after week, but they could find nothing wrong and no indication of why it was shutting down. They installed monitors to check for power surges - nothing. They replaced parts - still nothing. We were in discussions with IBM to have the entire machine removed and replaced with a new machine - something IBM said they had never had to do before. After months of pulling our hair out, we discovered (not sure who made the connection - but it seemed to be a long shot at the time) the shutdown coincided with the approach of the USS Lexington (aircraft carrier) coming into port (some 10 miles or so away) from it's regular training missions. Apparently the radar from the ship was strong enough to play havoc with the circuitry causing it to trigger a shutdown. The SE installed RF shields within the box and the problem occurred no more.
  
  So much for magic.
  
  --
  Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is the headlight of an oncoming train.
6. Re:Not unprecedented by mangu · 2010-12-21 08:31 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  I have a similar experience when we were installing some computers in a hydro power station control center. The old control system used electromechanical relays, so it was quite robust, but the digital computers kept crashing. There were some 500 kV lines right going over the control center, so it was assumed they were causing enough interference to crash the computers.
  After months of studies, it was decided that shielding the control center was the only solution. However there was a problem, the large glass window to the observation hall. Someone mentioned that there existed a transparent conductive paint, so they called a paint supplier:
  -"Hello, I'm looking for some invisible paint, to paint glass"
  They hung up without an answer at the other side...
7. Re:Not unprecedented by Red+Flayer · 2010-12-21 08:32 · Score: 1
  
  We had IBM SEs come in and pour over the logs
  Well there's your problem. They must have spilled some of the liquid they were pouring over the mainframe.
  
  The RF shielding obviously had the side effect of waterproofing the circuitry case.
  
  --
  "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
8. Re:Not unprecedented by nomadic · 2010-12-21 08:55 · Score: 1
  
  Yes I did. Well, a get off my server moment.
9. Re:Not unprecedented by rcamans · 2010-12-21 09:09 · Score: 1
  
  Well, the Lexington is moored permanently on the Texas coast, so I guess that can't be my problem...
  
  --
  wake up and hold your nose
10. Re:Not unprecedented by mswhippingboy · 2010-12-21 09:30 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, they were pretty upset around here when Lady Lex got sent to Texas.
  
  --
  Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is the headlight of an oncoming train.
11. Re:Not unprecedented by mangu · 2010-12-21 10:24 · Score: 1
  
  Hard disks have enough shielding to be immune to external magnetic fields, but floppy disks were a different story.
  There was a meeting room where I worked that had a steel white board. The eraser had a magnet behind the felt surface, so it stuck to the board. It happened quite often that someone left floppies on the table and then distractedly put the eraser over them. The result: instantly reformatted disks.
12. Re:Not unprecedented by puppyfox · 2010-12-21 10:34 · Score: 2
  
  Not quite as exciting, but I had the same problem with a sizable desktop laser printer occasionally disabling the wired USB mouse/keyboard in the nearby computer. After months or replacing hardware, moving the computer to the other side of the monitor fixed the problem.
  
  --
  The cookie told me to.
13. Re:Not unprecedented by blind+biker · 2010-12-21 11:32 · Score: 1
  
  -"Hello, I'm looking for some invisible paint, to paint glass"
  What an abysmal failure to communicate. Traceable back to a failure in the brain? Even a 7-year old would have been able to formulate the correct request - conductive, transparent paint (for glass). Instead, the bozo you asked to make the phonecall, asked for "invisible paint", and failed to mention the most salient feature of the paint, i.e. conductivity.
  The story is funny because it's so stupid.
  
  --
  "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
14. Re:Not unprecedented by SineCosine · 2010-12-21 17:06 · Score: 1
  
  Wow, so no one there had ever heard of a window screen? How do they keep bugs out at home?
15. Re:Not unprecedented by index0 · 2010-12-21 18:03 · Score: 1
  
  low e glass can conduct
16. Re:Not unprecedented by Imrik · 2010-12-21 19:11 · Score: 1
  
  Yea, you could formulate a request that would explain a bit of why you wanted it, but how often do you get to ask for invisible paint to paint glass?
17. Re:Not unprecedented by blind+biker · 2010-12-22 07:00 · Score: 1
  
  Is "transparent paint" called "invisible paint" in the school for retards? I didn't know.
  
  --
  "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
Something we need more of by QuantumBeep · 2010-12-21 07:59 · Score: 3, Insightful

We constantly hear about needing to "program defensively" and test for "can't happen" conditions.
Here's one for defensive engineering.
1. Re:Something we need more of by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2010-12-21 08:13 · Score: 1
  
  I would hope, for any remotely adequate mechanical engineer or industrial designer, (or heck, even an interior designer) "potential wear, degradation, and derating of the surface coatings on parts in mechanical contact" wouldn't even fall into the category of "reacting to a 'can't happen' condition; but simply count as standard diligence.
  
  Now, I can imagine the organizational dysfunction where the guy speccing finishes might be told "low cost, attractive, applies to metal and aesthetically compatible with leather", without being told that his finish really has to be dielectrically stable for the lifetime of the product, while, at the same time, the guy who knows that the hooks must not short the device has no say in the finish selection...
2. Re:Something we need more of by MBCook · 2010-12-21 08:41 · Score: 1
  
  Shouldn't there be something (like a current limiting resister) so that even if a mistake like this DID happen, it couldn't draw too much current and cause these kind of problems? Surely you could detect how much current is being drawn and shut it off if it's too much. Other devices do that.
  Also, if the brownouts are the problem, why doesn't the Kindle notice the voltage getting low and complain? At this point, why would any electronic device be able to get to such a low voltage point where it can't continue to guarantee it's operation without warning the user.
  
  --
  Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
3. Re:Something we need more of by dangitman · 2010-12-21 09:36 · Score: 1
  
  Now, I can imagine the organizational dysfunction where the guy speccing finishes might be told "low cost, attractive, applies to metal and aesthetically compatible with leather", without being told that his finish really has to be dielectrically stable for the lifetime of the product, while, at the same time, the guy who knows that the hooks must not short the device has no say in the finish selection...
  I doubt it even got to that level. You're probably over-thinking it. I think it's more likely that the people making the case had no idea that there was electrical power being supplied to those hooks, and thought it was merely a mechanical connection. It's not like people who make leather covers usually have anything to do with electronic engineers.
  
  --
  ... and then they built the supercollider.
4. Re:Something we need more of by Lehk228 · 2010-12-21 11:26 · Score: 1
  
  because the voltage sensing circuits are pointed at the battery and power supply, typically there would be no reason to have one reading the internal electrical system.
  
  --
  Snowden and Manning are heroes.
more tags by Anonymous Coward · 2010-12-21 07:59 · Score: 1

facepalm
Metal hooks? by 93+Escort+Wagon · 2010-12-21 08:00 · Score: 1

It seems to me the design flaw is with the cover rather than the Kindle. Who in their right mind would put a metal hook into an electrically "live" slot unless they intended to draw electricity? Polycarbonate would do the job, or even hard rubber.
But I have to admit I had never even noticed those side slots on my Kindle 3 - until I read this story.

--
#DeleteChrome
1. Re:Metal hooks? by gander666 · 2010-12-21 08:25 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Being a product manager, I would guess that whomever wrote the spec for the cover latch, specified dimensions, and what is required for it to be a sturdy fit. But that they forgot to specify that there was to be no electrical connection or conductivity between the tabs.
  The Winning bidder probably chose to make the bracket out of brass (guess here) to ensure dimensional integrity, and because a plastic mold for a thermoplastic injected part would be a couple tens of thousands of dollars.
  But, I would bet my last dollar that someone at QA at Amazon figured this out, and specified that the bracket had to be painted with a non-conductive paint as a band aid.
  This is how trivial, serial bad decisions come back to bite you in the arse
  
  --
  Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress ... but I repeat myself. - Mark T
2. Re:Metal hooks? by MBCook · 2010-12-21 08:43 · Score: 1
  
  Or, you could design the product not to have connections to it's battery exposed like that. How about a simple physical switch (not unlike those in headphone jacks) that prevents power from going through the latch slots unless a little switch is pressed in.
  That way, if the latches are full you could have the current on, and if they had a little cutout slot in them or a notch, the power could be off. Then you could use a piece of metal, even without paint, and it wouldn't cause this problem so long as it has the right notch.
  
  --
  Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
3. Re:Metal hooks? by 93+Escort+Wagon · 2010-12-21 09:34 · Score: 1
  
  That's a good point. Alternatively the switch could be in a separate opening located between the two power connections, or a smallish opening in the back. Cases designed to pull power would have a nub to trip the switch; the rest wouldn't.
  
  --
  #DeleteChrome
4. Re:Metal hooks? by Lehk228 · 2010-12-21 11:33 · Score: 1
  
  if you are going to add a contact point you may as well make both hooks the ground and the contact point the power source, that way you don't have a switch to fail or get stuck
  
  --
  Snowden and Manning are heroes.
EE101 by TheL0ser · 2010-12-21 08:01 · Score: 1

Apparently the designers of the cover skipped the lesson on not putting short circuits into a device.
1. Re:EE101 by kbielefe · 2010-12-21 08:15 · Score: 1
  
  Probably because they never took that class. I can imagine management saying, "This one doesn't have a light, so we don't need electrical engineering to approve the design, only mechanical." That sort of thing happens at my work more often than I would expect, going both ways.
  
  --
  This space intentionally left blank.
Wow by RightwingNutjob · 2010-12-21 08:03 · Score: 5, Funny

a malfunction in a high tech device that actually can be fixed with duct tape
1. Re:Wow by willutah · 2010-12-21 10:25 · Score: 1
  
  or nail polish!
2. Re:Wow by dgatwood · 2010-12-21 13:02 · Score: 1
  
  Or black cloth gaffer's tape. You can fix anything with gaffer's tape.
  
  --
  Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
He's got it all wrong by specialperson · 2010-12-21 08:04 · Score: 5, Informative

First, his meter's reading 2 Megaohms, not 2 Ohms. I guess he's not much of an "Electronics Person". Second, it would appear that he's measuring conductivity though his body to achieve that number. Both of his fingers are touching the probe tips.
1. Re:He's got it all wrong by bruce_the_loon · 2010-12-21 08:09 · Score: 1
  
  With a multimeter with only one ohm setting, no frequency, HFE or cap tester, he's just a glorified plug-tester.
  Now, can someone with a Kindle cover and a proper meter please test for us to settle it.
  
  --
  Trying to become famous by taking photos. Visit my homepage please.
2. Re:He's got it all wrong by vlm · 2010-12-21 08:12 · Score: 1
  
  First, his meter's reading 2 Megaohms, not 2 Ohms. I guess he's not much of an "Electronics Person".
  Second, it would appear that he's measuring conductivity though his body to achieve that number. Both of his fingers are touching the probe tips.
  He would get about the same resistance if he skipped the whole leather cover thing and just held the meter probes. You'd think they'd notice something like that.
  And Connectify earns their spot on "57 Lamest Tech Moments of 2010"
  seriously though pretty much any tightly fitting leather case will probably put the device under some continuous strain, probably leading to something internal flexing, then a reboot. With those nice strong metal clamps gripping the case tightly, I could imagine it.
  
  --
  "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
3. Re:He's got it all wrong by pz · 2010-12-21 08:18 · Score: 1
  
  First, his meter's reading 2 Megaohms, not 2 Ohms. I guess he's not much of an "Electronics Person".
  Second, it would appear that he's measuring conductivity though his body to achieve that number. Both of his fingers are touching the probe tips.
  And unless the metal we assume exists between the hooks were exceedingly thin, or the spots where the paint was rubbed off exceedingly small, 2 ohms would not be a reasonable resistance for a wire of that length. If the spots where the paint was rubbed off were small enough that the contact resistance was 2 ohms, then they would be difficult to find with the probes. Metal at macroscopic sizes conducts quite well. A quick check with my handy Fluke 179 shows that a clip lead, roughly the same length as the distance between the two hooks in the Kindle cover, has a resistance that is below the threshold of measurability on the meter (0.1 Ohm).
  While this fellow might have discovered the actual problem, the photo and text from the linked article do not suggest he's done it the way he thinks he has.
  
  --
  
  Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
4. Re:He's got it all wrong by BlitzTech · 2010-12-21 08:24 · Score: 1
  
  His left finger looks like it's touching, but I'm not entirely convinced the right one is.
  
  Regardless of that nitpick, it is still showing 2 MOhms, which shouldn't draw nearly enough power to do anything he thinks it's doing.
  
  Purely speculation, but does it look like the black probe is even touching the metal...?
5. Re:He's got it all wrong by Khyber · 2010-12-21 08:28 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  It's the hooks. I just took my fiance's mother's Kindle and pulled her non-lit leather cover off.
  Paint worn to SHIT, metal exposed. Metal is brass.
  I didn't even use a multimeter, I just used some new equipment from Nichia's yesterday visit to see if it would actually work as a full conductor.
  Lit the LED up without any problem.
  Quite conductive.
  
  --
  Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
6. Re:He's got it all wrong by makomk · 2010-12-21 08:32 · Score: 1
  
  He would get about the same resistance if he skipped the whole leather cover thing and just held the meter probes.
  He may well effectively be doing just that. Given how difficult it is to make reliable electrical contact with a small area of metal using standard multimeter probes, together with the general level of competence displayed, I wouldn't be surprised to find the probes aren't in contact with the metal at all.
7. Re:He's got it all wrong by mrjatsun · 2010-12-21 08:32 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  My son's Kindle has this problem... I removed the cover the other day and it has not had it sense. I just broke
  out the multimeter, I was unable to get an electrical path even when scraping the paint on the hooks.
8. Re:He's got it all wrong by vlm · 2010-12-21 08:33 · Score: 1
  
  If the spots where the paint was rubbed off were small enough that the contact resistance was 2 ohms, then they would be difficult to find with the probes. Metal at macroscopic sizes conducts quite well. A quick check with my handy Fluke 179 shows that a clip lead, roughly the same length as the distance between the two hooks in the Kindle cover, has a resistance that is below the threshold of measurability on the meter (0.1 Ohm).
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge
  Lets assume the metal wire in the kindle case is copper and a foot long (makes it simpler), you'd need a wire gauge quite a bit below 40 AWG to get 2 ohms in a foot. seeing as thats about as small as commercially available, yet is till way too big, and yet is only 3 thousandths of an inch across... doing some reasonable extrapolation thats a piece of copper about a thousandth of an inch in diameter. That will snap before it falls off the assembly line.
  I suppose if the Chinese used nichrome or stainless steel its not so bad, but its still .. unrealistic.
  
  --
  "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
9. Re:He's got it all wrong by blair1q · 2010-12-21 08:38 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Reminds me of the Garmin Edge reboot and USB connectivity problems. They didn't use a flex to connect the rear case electronics to the front case electronics, they used a riser with flexible fingers. Fair enough, but they integrated this riser with the mini-USB port jack, and because of that surrounded the case opening with a thick gasket of stiff rubber. See what's coming? When the case is closed, the gasket puts a high spring force between the two circuit boards right where the fingers are mounted, reducing the spring force the fingers can apply to their mating contacts. When using the unit in a vibrating situation (you know, like on a bike, especially an MTB in typical MTB terrain), intermittent loss of contact results in power-bus glitches, which results in inadvertent power-cycling. And these things boot slower than a netbook running Windows Vista, so not only is it wearing on your data-gathering sensibilities, it's fracking boring waiting for the thing to come back to usable state so you can sweat while you wonder if it'll blow itself out again.
  Also, repeated insertion and removal of the USB connector leads to loose USB connectivity, and reboots while plugged into the computer.
  It took Garmin nearly a year to "figure it out", while everyone online who knew what the insides looked like knew within seconds what was going on. And Garmin's solution was to introduce the next model (at 3X the price). People owning the buggy model were offered a chance to mail in the device for a fix, but most were out of warranty, and the fix was not reputed to be a sure one.
  Moral: Never -- ever -- trust a corporation when the potential for money flow is negative to them.
10. Re:He's got it all wrong by bruce_the_loon · 2010-12-21 08:39 · Score: 1
  
  Thanks for the confirmation. Glad I didn't buy one with my Kindle.
  Now, did he stumble onto the real problem or was he just recreating the scene for the pics?
  
  --
  Trying to become famous by taking photos. Visit my homepage please.
11. Re:He's got it all wrong by Anonymous Coward · 2010-12-21 08:40 · Score: 1, Interesting
  
  Ahh Khyber, you still around? Mods Khyber is a troll, who claims crazy stuff, please see his previous posts before modding him up!
12. Re:He's got it all wrong by hazydave · 2010-12-21 09:01 · Score: 1
  
  Flaws in measurement aside, it's not a continuous wire. The clips are actually part of two metal rails, presumably painted, which slide against each other, with a spring in-between. You would probably get some real current flowing if the [presumed] paint wore off internally; wear on the clips is not enough to cause a problem.
  Now, I just looked at one of these owned by a co-worker -- he wasn't going to let me take it apart. It's possible the metal gives way to plastic under the leather cover, but I have no evidence of that -- sure seems like metal all the way. Stripped of paint and held just so, I'm sure it's less than 2 ohms. But you're probably going to get trouble with significantly higher resistance than that. Ok, not 2 megaohms :-)
  
  --
  -Dave Haynie
13. Re:He's got it all wrong by mangu · 2010-12-21 09:02 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  First, his meter's reading 2 Megaohms, not 2 Ohms. I guess he's not much of an "Electronics Person"
  Maybe he's not much of a "Photography Person". It's not easy to snap the shot while holding two probes in contact with the metal hooks. The photo is there to give an idea of how it went, it's not supposed to be an accurate document of the measured value.
  The "non-electronic" persons are those who calculated the electric resistance of the metal hooks. I got my EE degree in 1979 and have been an electronic hobbyist since 1969 and I know that 2 ohms is typical of what you may get from measuring a short circuit. There's always some dirt and oxide around, it's not usual to read the true resistance of the metal itself.
14. Re:He's got it all wrong by Sir_Gimpy · 2010-12-21 09:19 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  I just tested with my kindle case and a Fluke 73III meter. I've had a few restarts, but I figured they were due to the new software or the fact that I dropped it a while back. I have tested the hooks as well as I can. They are NOT connected as far as I can tell in my Kindle3 Case. I scratched the paint off and I was able to get a connection between two points on the same hook, but never anything across the hooks. (What I am trying to say is that I verified that my meter was making a connection to the metal) Maybe there are some that conduct, but judging by the picture mistake (guy doesn't know how to use a meter), I have NOT seen any evidence that it is a problem yet.
15. Re:He's got it all wrong by geekoid · 2010-12-21 10:15 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, it conducts. is it the problem? That has not been determined.
  
  --
  The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
16. Re:He's got it all wrong by pz · 2010-12-21 10:26 · Score: 1
  
  My son's Kindle has this problem... I removed the cover the other day and it has not had it sense. I just broke
  out the multimeter, I was unable to get an electrical path even when scraping the paint on the hooks.
  I would suspect, then, that the cause is static discharge from the cover through the insulated hooks on the cover that are mechanically intimate with the power contacts on the kindle.
  
  --
  
  Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
17. Re:He's got it all wrong by Khyber · 2010-12-21 11:02 · Score: 1
  
  Brass is stronger than copper and conducts about as well. This is why it has some uses in cheap lighting connectors, and also as, surprise, HINGES.
  
  --
  Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
18. Re:He's got it all wrong by mangu · 2010-12-21 11:23 · Score: 1
  
  You said "2 ohms is typical"....
  Parent you replied to has pointed out - 2 MEGAohms is what's clearly shown on the meter.
  You should go back to school - you need a literary degree.
  No, YOU need a literary degree. What I said is that the photo is merely illustrative, and does not pretend to be an accurate rendering of the measurement.
  He wrote: "It's hard to get a good reading, without scraping all the paint away. But that's a connection... remember that's how it powers the light. Depending on your contact you can see some pretty low values"
  Two megohms isn't usually what's called "pretty low", so the conclusion is that what the photo shows is not the lowest he got. Please note that he mentioned "depending on your contact", so it's not always he saw low values.
  It's not easy to get correct measurements in very low resistances, that's why my Fluke 189 multimeter has an option to display the lowest value read during a given interval.
19. Re:He's got it all wrong by davidbrit2 · 2010-12-21 12:00 · Score: 1
  
  You know, I've had two Garmins (various eTrex models) and both of them have had issues with powering off under a small amount of G-forces, and the rubber gasket around the outside coming unglued and ruining both the waterproofing and aesthetics. Garmin wanted me to pay $60-80 to have the rubber replaced.
  Maybe it's time to try a Magellan.
20. Re:He's got it all wrong by blair1q · 2010-12-21 12:32 · Score: 1
  
  Apparently, your smartphone can do everything they can do, and of course a whole lot more.
  Except cadence.
  Unless you're willing to wear it like a tart's derringer.
21. Re:He's got it all wrong by davidbrit2 · 2010-12-21 14:12 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, but my smartphone can't take a thorough dunking in a river, and walk away completely unharmed. It also won't run for the better portion of a day on a pair of easily-replaceable AA cells. So I needs me a nice rugged GPS.
Three words. by OmniGeek · 2010-12-21 08:05 · Score: 1

Phaser on overload. (Depending on the short-circuit current capacity of the Kindle's battery and the resistance of the shorting bar,that is.)

--

"My strength is as the strength of ten men, for I am wired to the eyeballs on espresso."
2 Ohm or 2 Megaohm? by Danh · 2010-12-21 08:06 · Score: 5, Informative

The linked article at Connectify says they measured a resistance of 2 Ohm, but on the picture I read 2 MOhm!
Check yourself with the large version of the picture.
1. Re:2 Ohm or 2 Megaohm? by RightwingNutjob · 2010-12-21 08:23 · Score: 2
  
  Careful inspection of the picture leads me to conclude that the air gap between the negative probe and the hook probably does have a 2 MOhm resistance
2. Re:2 Ohm or 2 Megaohm? by Gunstick · 2010-12-21 22:05 · Score: 1
  
  is the linked article still there?
  Because now it just has the "crash" and "leather case" tags, but for the rest it talks about where and how to use connectify.
  
  --
  Atari rules... ermm... ruled.
The upside by willoughby · 2010-12-21 08:06 · Score: 2, Funny

Well, as long as it's rebooting that gives you at least a few moments while Amazon cannot delete your files...
The line starts there by Duradin · 2010-12-21 08:06 · Score: 1

The line starts over there to bash on Amazon and/or the Kindle.
Don't worry, you don't need a valid or even sensible reason to get your chance. Just be frothing mad and they'll let you in.
1. Re:The line starts there by jeffmeden · 2010-12-21 08:17 · Score: 1
  
  Where is the line for bashing the "expert" at Connectify who in the same sentence derides anyone who doesn't know what an ohm is, and demonstrates that he doesn't know how to use a multimeter... That's the line *I* want!
2. Re:The line starts there by Duradin · 2010-12-21 08:35 · Score: 1
  
  Next door over and there appears to be no waiting.
KaWow by Charliemopps · 2010-12-21 08:10 · Score: 1

Whomever designed the case should be fired with extreme prejudice. They're lucky they didn't fry a significant number of very expensive ebooks with something this stupid. If I were a victim of this I'd demand a replacement kindle while I was at it... no telling what long term affect this had on the device.
1. Re:KaWow by vlm · 2010-12-21 08:27 · Score: 1
  
  Whomever designed the case should be fired with extreme prejudice. They're lucky they didn't fry a significant number of very expensive ebooks with something this stupid. If I were a victim of this I'd demand a replacement kindle while I was at it... no telling what long term affect this had on the device.
  The article pic shows about 2 megs not 2 ohms of resistance. Thats not too unlikely for a persons dry skin. If you think about what leather is made out of, it makes sense that a human body and a leather case would have about the same resistance. I think it would be safe to assume the kindle engineers designed it to survive dry skin contact, so the case designers building their case out of dry animal skin is not exactly the dumbest intersection of the fashion designer and electronics world I have ever seen.
  
  --
  "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
2. Re:KaWow by anUnhandledException · 2010-12-21 08:38 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  How exactly do you fry an ebook?
  A demonstration for you:
  1) Purchase Kindle
  2) Purchase and download 1000 ebooks to Kindle
  3) Throw kindle into incinerator
  4) Purchase new Kindle and click "Sync"
  5) 1000 ebooks "magically" appear on new kindle and more remarkable show no signs of fire damage.
3. Re:KaWow by Jtheletter · 2010-12-21 08:44 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  Fahrenheit 404?
  
  --
  -- I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist. It's not my fault that life sucks so much. --
4. Re:KaWow by Nocuous · 2010-12-21 09:01 · Score: 1
  
  How exactly do you fry an ebook?
  A demonstration for you: 1) Purchase Kindle 2) Purchase and download 1000 ebooks to Kindle 3) Throw kindle into incinerator 4) Purchase new Kindle and click "Sync" 5) 1000 ebooks "magically" appear on new kindle and more remarkable show no signs of fire damage.
  Dammit, I can't resist! Even though I have owned the Kindle 2 and DX for over a year and a half (my wife grabbed the Kindle 2), and we couldn't love them more, I have to point out that your step 5) should really be;
  
  5) up to 1000 books "magically" appear on new Kindle
  
  I was willing to give Amazon the benefit of the doubt when they had to recall "1984" because they accidentally sold an edition to which they did not have the rights. However, they are arbitrarily now removing multiple works from their store and from customers' online archives(!) by multiple authors in an inconsistent fashion, because the subject matter is incest. They didn't spell out that objection prior to publishing, and refuse to give any clarification of the policy now.
  
  Still love my Kindle, Amazon not so much. Now my threshold for switching eReader in the future based on features/price/policies is a little bit lower.
  
  Bezos you clown, if you aren't rampaging through Amazon terminating people with prejudice over this, you're an idiot.
  
  --
  Don't take it personally, but I'm not going to read your pithy response to my post.
5. Re:KaWow by geekoid · 2010-12-21 10:22 · Score: 1
  
  Yous should be shot. You know nothing about the situation, yet you do on blaming people.
  Maybe the original spec had a limiter in it so it wouldn't matter? maybe is was removed before manufacturing.
  Maybe Amazon gave the wrong specs? Maybe the designed didn't know there would be power? Maybe the desire called for plastic clips but was overridden by management?
  Maybe it's not this at all?
  Or, maybe, the designer completely fucked up. We can't know.
  Knee jerk conclusions and over board punishments is something we need less of. The only difference between your post, and a Glen Beck nonsensical rant is that your post has less tears.
  
  --
  The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
6. Re:KaWow by marcosdumay · 2010-12-22 12:39 · Score: 1
  
  Of all the books, they recalled 1984?!? That is nice, and sensible.
  Me? I don't trust DRM, and won't give money to people offering me data they can recall.
  
  --
  Rethinking email
Every other person who commented is dumb by jeffmeden · 2010-12-21 08:10 · Score: 2, Informative

First, his meter's reading 2 Megaohms, not 2 Ohms. I guess he's not much of an "Electronics Person".
Second, it would appear that he's measuring conductivity though his body to achieve that number. Both of his fingers are touching the probe tips.
That was the first thing I thought of when seeing the picture as well... Thank goodness he posted the full res version of that so we can very clearly see the M on the meter. What a maroon.
1. Re:Every other person who commented is dumb by martin-boundary · 2010-12-21 08:55 · Score: 1
  
  Rabbit season.
2. Re:Every other person who commented is dumb by dgatwood · 2010-12-21 13:05 · Score: 1
  
  Duck season.
  
  --
  Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
3. Re:Every other person who commented is dumb by complete+loony · 2010-12-21 13:11 · Score: 1
  
  He's using small probes vs the kindles much larger surface area sockets and he's posing for the camera. Plus would a sweaty palm on the outside of the case make any difference?
  Meanwhile, the page has been updated;
  
  There's been a stunning amount of feedback from the slashdot audience on the original post. Seems we need to go test some things. Clearly, metal is getting exposed, and making contact inside the Kindle. Which circuit is being closed is less clear. More testing is needed. We'll get back to you... Thanks.
  
  --
  09F91102 no, 455FE104 nope, F190A1E8 uh-uh, 7A5F8A09 that's not it, C87294CE no. Ah! 452F6E403CDF10714E41DFAA257D313F.
4. Re:Every other person who commented is dumb by DavidRawling · 2010-12-21 15:40 · Score: 1
  
  Rabbit season!
5. Re:Every other person who commented is dumb by dgatwood · 2010-12-22 02:04 · Score: 1
  
  Rabbit season!
  
  --
  Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
Dumb Design by bylo · 2010-12-21 08:12 · Score: 1

What an incredibly dumb design. A pair of plastic hooks would likely be cheaper and work better.
2 ohm is not a ahort circuit. by MatanZ · 2010-12-21 08:12 · Score: 2, Insightful

If it connects directly to the battery at about 4V, it will only draw 2A, or 8W. This should be enough to warm the case, but not to make it or the device burst into flames.
1. Re:2 ohm is not a ahort circuit. by Anonymous Coward · 2010-12-21 08:39 · Score: 1
  
  Actually, I don't think it's a huge design flaw. There have been far bigger ones. Not realising that the insulation layer would be subjected to repeated abrasive events and then cause a current draw should leave an engineer sheepish, but given that it involves two independently engineered pieces of kit, I'll forgive it given that a) the result is pretty minor and b) Amazon are giving refunds quickly and c) not pulling a Jobs and suggesting that users are somehow at fault.
2. Re:2 ohm is not a ahort circuit. by by+(1706743) · 2010-12-21 08:59 · Score: 1
  
  Sure, but 2 Ohms was just one measurement -- from the blog post:
  
  Depending on your contact you can see some pretty low values, which imply a pretty good connection between the two.
  In any event, I really doubt that there's not a current limiter in there, though I of course could be wrong.
3. Re:2 ohm is not a ahort circuit. by VxSote · 2010-12-21 09:03 · Score: 1
  
  In addition to that, it looks like he's touching the probes with his fingers. He could be seeing that reading without touching the hooks at all. On the other hand, maybe he really did find low resistance between the hooks, and the picture is simply a poor illustration.
4. Re:2 ohm is not a ahort circuit. by i_b_don · 2010-12-21 09:41 · Score: 1
  
  LOL... if you look at the picture closely, the multimeter is reading 2 MEGA ohms, not 2 ohms. Now maybe he's just showing off for the picture and in reality he can sometimes see much smaller values, but if it's really just 2Mohms then he's stupid for jumping to this conclusion. 2 Mohms means the for a 4V batter you're only drawing 2 uA of current... that's 0.000002A, a negligible amount for a kindle.
  However if this was designed for the LED, it could pass through the voltage regulator and a 2 ohm load on the voltage regulator could be enough to drop the output voltage, thus resetting the kindle. 2A of current is a SHITLOAD of current for something like the kindle. It's not designed for anywhere near that amount of load. I would guess it's typical operating current is somewhere less than 0.250A typically.
  Making intelligent estimates: i would guess the kindle's batteries are somewhere between 1000mAh and 2000mAh at the 4V mark someone threw out in an earlier post. Given the 250mA current draw, you would then be able to use the kindle for somewhere between 4 and 8 hours on a charge. That sounds about right to me. If anything I thought the kindle would last somewhere between 10 and 15 hours between charges, but I don't know since I don't have one. But that puts my estimate in the ballpark.
  For a battery of this size, 2A is likely to brown it out even if it wasn't going through a voltage regulator, however like I said, the picture doesn't show that 2A of current will flow, it shows that 0.000002A of current will flow.
  d
  
  --
  all language nazi's will burne in heil!
5. Re:2 ohm is not a ahort circuit. by cheater512 · 2010-12-21 09:57 · Score: 2
  
  Chances are it was just difficult to get a stable reading for the photo?
  To crash a kindle, it just needs to be low for a faction of a second.
6. Re:2 ohm is not a ahort circuit. by Kagura · 2010-12-21 13:57 · Score: 1
  
  Just thought I'd say... I was taking a trip to Japan, and ordered some gifts from Amazon to give to my friends when I met them in Tokyo. Two of the books were damaged. I got on the internet customer support they have on Amazon, and explained they were damaged but that I didn't have time to wait for replacements... they gave me full refunds on the two books (about $30 total, I think.)
  
  They run a decent service over at Amazon...
They're lucky it ONLY crashes by petes_PoV · 2010-12-21 08:14 · Score: 1

This arrangement effectively shorts the power supply - the users are lucky that it doesn't destroy their devices. They're even luckier that the problem seems to go away once the shorted power supply has crashed the Kindle, and presumably turned the power supply off. A shorted battery with all its power flowing through a nice, flammable animal product would be even worse - either for the leather or the battery.
Disclaimer: not a Kindle owner, just sowing a bit of FUD.

--
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
1. Re:They're lucky it ONLY crashes by RightwingNutjob · 2010-12-21 08:26 · Score: 1
  
  It's probably not the power bus directly. Most battery packs and I would assume these devices with exposed leads have built-in current limiters that shut down on an overcurrent condition. I recall seeing a news story a while back about knock-off cell phone batteries that didn't have this circuitry being a fire/safety hazard.
Had an interesting issue with my iPad cover by wfolta · 2010-12-21 08:29 · Score: 3, Interesting

I got a Marware cover for my iPad and love it. One issue it had though, was that the iPad's compass simply never worked. It always gave me the Figure-8 Shake warning, and I eventually thought that perhaps my iPad was defective... Then one day I noticed that the flip out "foot" in the cover is held in place by two magnets. Whoops. Really only an issue if you use a compass app or if you want to figure out directions while not moving, but an interesting design issue none-the-less.
And also break off. by maillemaker · 2010-12-21 08:43 · Score: 4, Insightful

Plastic has the virtue of being non-conductive, but my guess is that such a tiny part made in plastic could be problematic in terms of strength.

--
A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
full write up with experiences and descriptions by alecm · 2010-12-21 08:57 · Score: 1

i've been suffering this and writing it up at my blog:
http://dropsafe.crypticide.com/article/4633
- for 2 or 3 weeks now, it's good to see it getting some press at last. Since my kindle no longer takes a full charge after these shenanigans, I am pressing for a full replacement of the Kindle, and a better solution for the cover.

--
perl -nle 'setpwent;crypt($_,$c)eq$c&&print"$u=$_"while($u,$ c)=getpwent'
The old AS400 and the Elevator by HockeyPuck · 2010-12-21 09:16 · Score: 4, Interesting

I used to work on an old IBM AS400 which provided about 150 terminals (5250) to a bank. At random times, all of the terminals would lose connection to the AS400 which was located in the datacenter which was located in the floor below where everyone sat. The connections would only drop during the daytime, we could hook up all sorts of diagnostic equipment at night and almost never saw a drop.
After about 2 weeks of troubleshooting we determined that every time the elevator passed the cable infrastructure which was run down the elevator shaft, it would cause the terminal sessions to drop...
Imagine everytime you left the building at 2am after not being able to find a problem; to have someone call you and say "just as you were leaving the terminals reset..."
Outsourced to Elbonians by xanthos · 2010-12-21 09:18 · Score: 1

I am sure that the original engineering was perfectly fine, it was just outsourced to someone who "improved" it.

--
Average Intelligence is a Scary Thing
Free lit case? by Gothmolly · 2010-12-21 09:22 · Score: 3, Funny

So all you have to do is scrape the paint, and wire in a little LED and resistor, and you have a free lit case? Thanks Amazon !

--
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
1. Re:Free lit case? by mysidia · 2010-12-21 10:21 · Score: 2
  
  So all you have to do is scrape the paint, and wire in a little LED and resistor, and you have a free lit case? Thanks Amazon !
  I'm still working out how I can use this feature to attach a strip of metal to the outside of my cover, so if someone tries to steal my Kindle, they'll get zapped when they try to touch the case.
  I'm also trying to work out a method of stuffing some higher-capacity SLA or Lithium ION batteries in the case, so I can keep the Kindle running for longer, and make sure it can deliver the mAh required to stun a would-be thief
2. Re:Free lit case? by geekoid · 2010-12-21 10:24 · Score: 1
  
  The funny thing is, Amazon could probably raise the price 5 dollars, ONLY have lit cases and make more money.
  
  --
  The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
3. Re:Free lit case? by waives · 2010-12-21 11:19 · Score: 1
  
  Yep.. and just slap in a cpu, flash, battery, e-ink panel and some assorted chips and you don't even need to buy the kindle!
Re:Reminds me of my PowerBook G4 by gblackwo · 2010-12-21 09:26 · Score: 1

Actually, as an owner of an aluminum MacBook Pro and mechanical engineer, I believe this is actually an effect of having a poorly grounded outlet/home. My fiancees house is not grounded, and that is where I've had it the worst. This effect is also present when using a two prong transformer abroad. I experienced this in Russia, and on a ship I worked on. When using a well grounded AC outlet, the current dissipates from the shell. Also- if you unplug your laptop, you can then plant your feet firmly and rub your palms over the shell and dissipate the charge in less than a minute.
Re:Reminds me of my PowerBook G4 by psergiu · 2010-12-21 09:27 · Score: 2

It's not a small current, it's the "Magic" (TM) :-)

--
1% APY, No fees, Online Bank https://captl1.co/2uIErYq Don't let your $$$ sit in a no-interest acct.
Only on one side by Comboman · 2010-12-21 09:30 · Score: 2

It looks like his finger might be touching the negative (black) probe, but on the positive (red) probe his fingers are all above the plastic ridge.

--
Support Right To Repair Legislation.
1. Re:Only on one side by geekoid · 2010-12-21 10:10 · Score: 1
  
  No there not.His middle finger is clearly below the plastic ridge.
  Not that eh is wrong, but if they where connected, it would show around 0 ohms. Assuming it's set up correctly.
  
  --
  The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
Amazon press release? by Caerdwyn · 2010-12-21 09:35 · Score: 3, Funny

Jeff Bezos: "You're reading it wrong."
:)

--
Everybody gets what the majority deserves.
It's a doozy by wjousts · 2010-12-21 09:48 · Score: 2

The paint on the hooks wears off and shorts out the device!
There now was it so fucking hard to put that in the fucking summary?
Re:Reminds me of my PowerBook G4 by Soft+Cosmic+Rusk · 2010-12-21 09:56 · Score: 1

It's quite common on metal-chassis laptops. I've also experienced it on Dells and HP's.
Could be worse... by greentshirt · 2010-12-21 10:18 · Score: 1

Like say if you had to buy a bumper of some kind to stop the device from turning off if you held it in your left hand.
Mine Works Fine by levinsontodd · 2010-12-21 10:51 · Score: 2, Funny

This never happens to my paperback version.
You overlook something we've discussed here... by DragonWriter · 2010-12-21 10:53 · Score: 3, Insightful

How exactly do you fry an ebook?
A demonstration for you:
1) Purchase Kindle
2) Purchase and download 1000 ebooks to Kindle
3) Throw kindle into incinerator
4) Purchase new Kindle and click "Sync"
5) 1000 ebooks "magically" appear on new kindle and more remarkable show no signs of fire damage.
1000 minus, of course, the number of those ebooks that Amazon has decided can no longer be downloaded since the time they were downloaded into the old Kindle. Now, depending on how your tastes in ebooks line up with Amazon's whims in maintaining their public interest, that difference might be zero, or 1000, or anywhere in between.
Simple fix, plastic hooks by Fallen+Kell · 2010-12-21 11:11 · Score: 1

Who what have thunk it? Or how about not completing the circuit between the two hooks!!!!

--
We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
AA batteries light cigarettes by handy_vandal · 2010-12-21 11:36 · Score: 1

Details, please -- how does one light cigarettes with AA batteries? Thanks!

--
-kgj
1. Re:AA batteries light cigarettes by screwzloos · 2010-12-21 12:01 · Score: 2
  
  Put a few of them in series and you can get a pretty strong current. Touch a wire from either end on either side of the rolling paper and it should ignite if it's dry enough.
  
  The contents of alkaline batteries are poisonous and potentially explosive though... If a prisoner is too dangerous to be given a lighter or a wall socket, why would they have access to batteries?
2. Re:AA batteries light cigarettes by Monkeedude1212 · 2010-12-21 12:03 · Score: 2
  
  http://www.metacafe.com/watch/866007/how_to_light_a_cigarette_with_batteries/
  I don't know if you've heard of this website, it's kind of up and coming, called Google. You just type in something you don't know, and in about 10 minutes, you'll know it.
3. Re:AA batteries light cigarettes by handy_vandal · 2010-12-21 12:13 · Score: 1
  
  I'm interested in Khyber's reply. Your sarcasm makes me tired.
  
  --
  -kgj
4. Re:AA batteries light cigarettes by Iskender · 2010-12-21 12:25 · Score: 2
  
  While the ex-inmate above hasn't replied so far, I'd take his story above your Google result video any day.
  Some things are best left to Google ("What's the capital of Assyria" etc), but turning that into "anything should just be Googled" is pretty counter-productive.
  The thing about humans is that while they're slow they tend to give context and other random details quite readily. In this case I could perhaps get information on how to get the necessary steel wire/wool in prison, how to smuggle batteries, how to make the equipment last as long as possible...
  Your Googled video does show how it's done (or at least one way of doing it.) However, it's terse, it provides no background on where this information came from and it just assumes you magically have the necessary equipment but not a lighter. It's a pointless party trick story vs. a story of something that was actually useful in prison.
5. Re:AA batteries light cigarettes by Monkeedude1212 · 2010-12-21 12:35 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Some things are best left to Google ("What's the capital of Assyria" etc), but turning that into "anything should just be Googled" is pretty counter-productive.
  I've never disagreed with a sentiment so much before online. The internet is an incredibly vast wealth of knowledge and I feel that any time you have any question, it should be used accordingly.
  It's amazing how much information you have access to, it is not difficult to self teach yourself computer programming, car mechanics, advanced physics, art techniques, or almost anything else using just internet information sources, and supplies at home to get you started. Obviously if you want to do car repair you should have a car and the tools necessary for the job, but understanding what to do and whats needed can easily be found online, with step by step guides!
  The simple question "How does one do something" is the BEST kind of question the internet handles. There is even a popular site dedicated to it, howto.com - and Youtube will have tons of videos on topics like that.
  The problem is that handy did not ask for backgruond information on where it comes from, he did not ask how to acquire those materials in prison, he did not ask about smuggling or manufacturing equipment - he merely asked how to light a cigarette with batteries. The video addresses that.
  If, perhaps, he's interested on how to Smuggle items into prison - he should google "How to smuggle items into prison" and he can see the news reports on how people have tried to smuggle things in before.
6. Re:AA batteries light cigarettes by Iskender · 2010-12-21 15:03 · Score: 1
  
  The problem is that handy did not ask for backgruond information on where it comes from, he did not ask how to acquire those materials in prison, he did not ask about smuggling or manufacturing equipment - he merely asked how to light a cigarette with batteries. The video addresses that.
  That's the thing though, you only get answers that way.
  If you're ignorant (note, no value judgement implied here!) then you usually lack both answers and questions. A large part of the value of asking a person is that you often get answers to related questions you didn't ask.
  Take the article this discussion is filed under as an example. Posit that you Google "Kindle fault electricity" and you get the linked multimeter show. If you've never used a multimeter you will be very unlikely to ask "what's the correct way of using the probes on a multimeter". And yet if some of the above posters are to be believed that question changes the article and its conclusions from insight to junk! Google is good at what it does but it has insight only if it has happened to trawl insight into the results that day.
  In addition, nothing stops anyone from both asking people and Googling. Why not ask both? If you're personally annoyed by questions asked then don't reply, but I don't see why you would have to butt in and force your information gathering techniques on others.
  There's also something of a contradiction in arguing against asking questions in a discussion thread - if Google really had all the answers for us humans there wouldn't be a thread here.
7. Re:AA batteries light cigarettes by hazydave · 2010-12-22 02:51 · Score: 1
  
  Actually, in series you get a pretty strong voltage, but exactly the same current you get with a single cell. Put them in parallel to increase the current.
  
  --
  -Dave Haynie
bare facts in summary by handy_vandal · 2010-12-21 11:46 · Score: 1

But if editors put the bare facts in the fucking summary, how would editors fool themselves into thinking that they're being clever by witholding the bare facts?
Seriously: the editor is being deliberately coy with us. Pisses me off, too.

--
-kgj
While you were wasting both our time ... by handy_vandal · 2010-12-21 12:15 · Score: 1

... this other guy posted a useful reply to my question.

--
-kgj
Thanks! by handy_vandal · 2010-12-21 12:16 · Score: 1

Useful info -- thx!

--
-kgj
Another IBM/Radar story. by Ungrounded+Lightning · 2010-12-21 12:18 · Score: 4, Interesting

IBM 4341 mainframe in our data-center that would just shut down regularly every Friday night, around the same time ... shutdown coincided with the approach of the USS Lexington ... Apparently the radar from the ship was strong enough to ... trigger a shutdown.
Another IBM radar story (Third hand: CE involved -> my brother -> me.)
Shortly after the "Foreign Attachments" suit required IBM to allow other companies' equipment to be directly connected, there were a number of multivendor projects, of which this was one.
Each component worked fine in the respective labs. But the first integration of the whole system took place at the final site. (Why rent some space, hook it all up, get it running, tear it down, move it, and hook it up again, when you can do it once at the final site?) So they hooked it up and nothing worked right.
Several weeks of hair-tearing and finger-pointing by exasperated CEs from several companies ensued. At one point my brother's buddy had time on his hands and decided to fix the really annoying flickering fluorescent tube. He turned off the lights - and the tube kept flickering. WTF?
He called the other CEs over and demonstrated this. Then they all took a quick look around the environment to see what might be causing it. It was a short look: The wooden building was right next to the antenna for the airport's search radar.
Lined the room with conductive material. Everything started working just fine. Handshakes all around, exit stage left.

--
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
1. Re:Another IBM/Radar story. by Ungrounded+Lightning · 2010-12-22 10:34 · Score: 1
  
  Sounds like the light saturated the receiver and this triggered the "tamper" alarm. ("I can't communicate - so I'll assume somebody's trying to bypass me. I'll report an alarm condition for every sensor I can't hear".)
  
  --
  Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Blog owner has face palmed by scdeimos · 2010-12-21 12:20 · Score: 3, Informative

As already mentioned above, the multimeter in the picture is reading 2.164 megaohms which is quite a high resistance and would make no difference at all to the operation of the Kindle.
It seems that the blog owner has realised their mistake and replaced their blog entry with the content of another, but not before it made it's way into Google Cache
For those interesting in seeing the high-resolution "Oopsie" image, it is here.
1. Re:Blog owner has face palmed by ogl_codemonkey · 2010-12-21 13:08 · Score: 1
  
  Seems the cache link you provided has unfortunately also been updated. There's still the tell-tale 'leather case' tag on it, but that seems to be the only remaining reference.
  TFA deleted. Seems to still have the old tags though...
  
  POSTED BY CONNECTIFY AT 1:33 PM
  LABELS: AMAZON, CONNECTIFY, CRASH, KINDLE, LEATHER CASE, NON-LIGHTED
And my Toshiba Tekra M2 and HP EliteBook 8530w by Ungrounded+Lightning · 2010-12-21 12:43 · Score: 1

If your power supply doesn't have a three-prong plug and some "drain" connection from the ground pin to the power supply output, or the protective ground pin of your wall outlet isn't hooked up, stray capacitance through the power brick will cause your computer to be "floating" at about half the line's AC voltage. This is enough to feel - especially if you run your hand lightly along a metal surface. But it (usually) doesn't have enough current available to electrocute you if you also happen to touch a good ground - or to start a fire or blow a fuse if you ground the case.
Grounding something on it (like the shell of a video cable connector) will typically pull the case down to ground potential and solve the problem. (It may also blow a very sensitive ground-fault detector. And if the connection is a defect rather than stray capacitance you're back to the blown fuse / fire starts / something burns out scenario.)
Ran into the same phenomenon on a Toshiba laptop with a two-prong power brick and a docking station. The 60ish volt float caused the microphone to pick up AC hum, wrecking it for VoIP applications.
First step of the solution was to hook up the dock to the desktop's monitor's VGA cable. Upside: No hum. (Dell monitor had a three-prong power plug and grounded its frame and cables.) Downside: Screen blanked on the laptop because it saw the desktop's monitor and switched the video to it. Second step: Got a couple extra of the nuts that hold a DBnn connector to the chassis and serve as landing for the strain relief screws on the cable. Used 'em for conductive standoffs, so the cable shell was connected but the pins were not. Good ground so no hum, laptop didn't "see" the monitor so video stayed active.

--
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
1. Re:And my Toshiba Tekra M2 and HP EliteBook 8530w by dgatwood · 2010-12-21 13:23 · Score: 1
  
  Poorly designed laptops with floating grounds are a very common problem, and are the bane of the audio recording world. This problem seems to come up on recording bulletin boards about every couple of weeks. I usually just suggest wiring up a pass-through audio cable with a plug on one end, a jack on the other, and the ground on the plug end wired to the building ground. It's quick, cheap, easy, and gets the job done.
  
  --
  Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
Don't Slam The Book! by Ungrounded+Lightning · 2010-12-21 12:52 · Score: 1

I have the nice leather-bound hardcover edition, and it randomly slams shut when I'm trying to read it.
Don't slam the book! Something Bad might happen.

--
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Am I going blind? by McPierce · 2010-12-21 13:21 · Score: 3, Informative

I'm on the Connectify blog and I don't see anything about leather cases or flaws. When I search the page for "leather" I only see the tag and nothing else.

--
Darryl L. Pierce "What do you care what people think, Mr. Feynman?"
1. Re:Am I going blind? by RealGrouchy · 2010-12-22 04:08 · Score: 1
  
  At the top of the page is this text in italics:
  
  There's been a stunning amount of feedback from the slashdot audience on the original post. Seems we need to go test some things. Clearly, metal is getting exposed, and making contact inside the Kindle. Which circuit is being closed is less clear. More testing is needed. We'll get back to you... Thanks. Meanwhile enjoy what the original post was going to say in the first place:
  -RG>
  
  --
  Hey pal, this isn't a pleasantforest, so don't waste my time with pleasantries!
Re:Page has been removed? by fluffy99 · 2010-12-21 14:00 · Score: 1

Try the Coral Cache http://connectify.blogspot.com.nyud.net/2010/12/why-leather-cover-crashes-kindle-3.html
And yeah, the picture shows him measuring his fingers at 2-megaohms. Those hooks still might be electrically connected, but this picture clearly shows him measuring incorrectly.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_qwDDaztb5sk/TRDc7rIwy3I/AAAAAAAAAC4/aTEHhpsNf2Y/s1600/IMG_0662%255B1%255D.JPG
They changed the page by WD · 2010-12-21 15:10 · Score: 2

But you should be able to view a cached copy here:
http://connectify.blogspot.com.nyud.net/2010/12/why-leather-cover-crashes-kindle-3.html
Not sure if the change was intentional or what.
1. Re:They changed the page by X0563511 · 2010-12-21 16:04 · Score: 1
  
  There's been a stunning amount of feedback from the slashdot audience on the original post. Seems we need to go test some things. Clearly, metal is getting exposed, and making contact inside the Kindle. Which circuit is being closed is less clear. More testing is needed. We'll get back to you... Thanks. Meanwhile enjoy what the original post was going to say in the first place:
  Yep. The actual content has been swapped for some lame "review" type stuff.
  
  --
  For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
Down the memory hole by noidentity · 2010-12-21 15:49 · Score: 1

I love it when someone completely changes a post, causing links to it to become incorrect. I went to the linked page about how it was a "doozy" yet saw nothing about a leather case or anything. Anyone got a cache of the old page so I can see what the hell everyone is talking about?
Re:Is the article gone? by arb · 2010-12-21 16:47 · Score: 1

I thought it was just another spammy article that made its way onto the Slashdot front page. I'm especially wary of "anonymous" contributions here - I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't submitted by Connectify just to get traffic and once they got anough traffic, swap out the original article for some more ads. 8^/
No by fishexe · 2010-12-21 19:08 · Score: 2

It's not just your eyes, the article is no longer on the blog at the time I'm writing this. Don't know why. Hopefully they put it back up so we can read it, though.

--
"I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
I'd kind of like to read this by serutan · 2010-12-21 19:34 · Score: 1

Anybody know where the article went? The linked blog entry is tagged "leather case" and "crash" but says nothing about either.
1. Re:I'd kind of like to read this by wgibson · 2010-12-21 23:35 · Score: 1
  
  My guess: they realized they didn't know how to use a multimeter, and because of that, messed up...
EEVblog Video Investigation by altzone · 2010-12-22 13:26 · Score: 1

I have investigated this, and it is almost certainly NOT the metal tabs at fault. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lypYZxIDBDs From: http://www.eevblog.com/2010/12/23/eevblog-135-kindle-case-mythbusting/ Investigations continue... Dave.
I am so disappointed by NotQuiteReal · 2010-12-22 17:18 · Score: 1

The does not appear to have anything to do with electric eel-skin. I was rooting for a good urban legend come-back.

sigh

--
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.