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Banknotes Go Electronic To Outwit Counterfeiters
suraj.sun writes "Modern banknotes contain up to 50 anti-counterfeiting features, but adding electronic circuits programmed to confirm the note's authenticity is perhaps the ultimate deterrent, and would also help to simplify banknote tracking. From the article: 'A team of German and Japanese researchers created arrays of thin-film transistors (TFTs) by carefully depositing gold, aluminum oxide and organic molecules directly onto the notes through a patterned mask, building up the TFTs layer by layer. The result is an undamaged banknote containing around 100 organic TFTs, each of which is less than 250 nanometres thick and can be operated with voltages of just 3V. Such small voltages could be transmitted wirelessly by an external reader, such as the kind that communicates with the RFID tags found on many products.'"
Why do we still carry money anyway?
It's hard for me to imagine any security measure economical enough to implement in $20 bills could not be replicated by a really well-funded forger, such as a foreign intelligence agency. If there is any "ultimate" deterrent, it would involve tracking the movement of funds from one individual to another, i.e. marginalizing the use of cash, or making it equivalent to electronic banking, so Big Brother can keep an eye on it.
Now my wallet can use an RFID reader to tell me it doesn't have any money in it? Fantastic.
What could POSSIBLY go wrong?
All that money won't be worth the paper it's printed on in a few years anyway.
Supporter of the +1 Over Dramatic mod option. In memory of apk.
I wonder if their new banknotes will survive the US money test.
:)
Assuming it does and gets adopted by countries, it'll be time for the shielded wallets that are RFID proof.
I figure a flame war will start over this somewhere
Here are just a few of those sites you can get those shielded wallets from for the more paranoid amongst you : )
http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/security/8cdd/
http://www.idstronghold.com/
http://www.tamperseal.com/rfid-blocking-leather-wallet-p-332.html
http://rfidwallet.org/
Buy silver and Gold coins :)
... publish the secret salt bits added to the hash to sign the note digitally and we will be back to square one.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
You should check out Bitcoins. http://www.bitcoin.org/ The mathematics behind it are genius. I wander how long it will take before governments try to shut it down.
And how durable is the circuitry? Abrasion, water, folding, chemicals (ex. laundry soap), etc are usually hazardous to circuitry. Seems like there will be a few false positives, assuming of course they could even manufacture such notes in a cost effective and reliable manner. The US is already having problems printing its own money.
This is nothing a few seconds in the microwave won't fix.
Of course, I had to use a hammer to fix my passport's problem.
Part of the problem, particularly in the US, is there isn't a good person-to-person electronic payment system that is easy to use, secure, and low cost. So let's say you pay for lunch on your credit card, how do I pay you back? Paypal requires we both have accounts, go to a computer, transfer, incur a fee, wait, and so on. Unless you happen to be a business owner you yourself don't accept credit cards. So cash is the only easy way.
Can also apply to businesses. Like when I had a local plumber come out to fix a broken faucet. They would take a credit card, of course, they have to in this day and age, but they didn't want to pay the retardedly expensive fees to have a full on wireless, battery powered, unit in their trucks. So I would have had to call their office and give them the number, they run the card, call back the plumber and tell him "It's good write him a receipt." Or, I could do what I did, get some cash and just pay him on the spot.
We need a some more advances in electronic currency before it'll be feasible to not need paper anymore.
At the moment, cash is basically the only (mostly) anonymous means of payment available. Since when is less anonymous is a good idea?
seriously though, once cash is traceable, it ceases to be useful. unless they only use it on very large bills and they reinstate the higher denomination bills
Archimedes' principle. The Fisch implementation is pretty good.
Set your phasers on "funky"!
Poorer countries such as Nicaragua, Nigeria, Bangladesh and Kuwait use them, so why have other countries not caught up?
This isn't just the US, but the EU and UK as well. Why stick to paper when much more advanced tech has been around for over 20 years and is being used by third world countries?
If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
Privacy is the opposite of Security.
Good is the opposite of Evil.
Thought crime is when you admit that having Three Wars of Foreign Adventure against Iraq, Iran, and Afghanistan when al-Qaeda isn't in any of those three countries and hasn't been in any of them for five years ... is a bad idea.
Did anyone else watch the cool Castle episode where the Burlesque club owner led a gang of counterfeiters?
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
...but adding electronic circuits programmed to confirm the note's authenticity is perhaps the ultimate deterrent...
Because everyone knows it's impossible to spoof electronics.
XKCD:Xeric Knowledge Comically Dispen
Sure you could do that... but you might have a problem exchanging them for real goods at most places. No place is obligated to accept legal tender in exchange for goods.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
What happens when the note has been exchanged continuously from person to person for several years? The note will start to wear. How will those circuits hold up? I don't want to be arrested for suspected counterfeiting because the circuits in the note happened to fail while it was in my wallet.
The bouillon ownership will be banned like it was pre-1975.
When you bring this note back in after 25-30 years and they sorry the note doesn't check out.
1. You just lost money.
2. You look like a criminal.
3. Bank profits as usual.
Beware of those who profit off the docile and persecute the unbelievers.
The author didn't included the ending paragraph of the article, which is: Although the researchers have yet to work out how the organic electronics could be harnessed as an anti-counterfeit measure [hey, but this stuff is really cool], the circuits are able to perform simple computing operations [yes, they have etched a perfect circuit board that looks like a $20 bill].
Noone tries to counterfeit Zimbabwean dollars anymore, because counterfeit money would actually be more valuable than real ZWD...
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
Actually, legal tender IS what they're obligated to take. They can take legal tender AT FACE VALUE, or forgive the debt. They don't have to pay the actual value of a silver dollar (about $23 just in bullion right now).
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
I do not like to have all of my transactions tracked, analyzed, scrutinized, questioned, etc... Also, electric transactions do not work in the vast majority of the world, money does.
I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.
Wrong. Lots of places refuse to take certain denominations of currency, and it's fully legal for them to do this (I've checked). They risk annoying a certain percentage of potential customers as a result, but the places that do this get enough business from people that comply with the restrictions that they don't seem to mind alienating what appear to be a minority.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
... but adding electronic circuits programmed to confirm the note's authenticity is perhaps the ultimate deterrent, ...
Right. Of course. Electronic stuff has never, ever been counterfeited. "Ultimate deterrent" is, I suspect, a hyperbole here deserving of a Princess Bride style rebuke.
Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
Ah yes, the famous crush test, which is why we use color-shifting dyes instead of holograms. You know why they have that test? So that agents can swallow a large amount of US currency in special capsules, carry it across borders undetected, crap it out, and have it still be in good enough condition pay off informants.
At least, that's my theory. And why I doubt they'll ever use a method that would reveal the amount of hidden currency you're carrying that they can't themselves defeat (if the circuitry survives the crush test, somehow the capsule will shield it without tripping metal detectors).
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
If I have an RFID reader, will I be able to tell how much cash the mark is holding?
There are explosive ramifications w/ regards to IED construction (awful pun, sorry), much like the probably proverbial "american passport RFID proximity detonator" for artillery shells.
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
A team of German and Japanese researchers created arrays of thin-film transistors (TFTs) by carefully depositing gold, aluminum oxide and organic molecules directly onto the notes through a patterned mask...
Well I'll be damned - if they have gold in them now this little bit of otherwise worthless paper actually has a minuscule bit of value...
Deja Moo: The distinct feeling that you've heard this bull before.
Actually, legal tender IS what they're obligated to take. They can take legal tender AT FACE VALUE, or forgive the debt.
No. A sale does not involve debt because it’s a single equal-sided transaction. If they don’t want to take my money, they don’t have to make the transaction. This is well-established legally.
If a debt exists, they have to accept legal tender, but this does not apply to sales unless they’re selling things on credit (which would be a debt, and they’d have to accept any form of legal tender).
Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
If I accidentally zap it with a static electric discharge, is it now worthless?
Paper money can be scrunched up, rubbed against other paper and much more. I doubt this TFT thingamo will survive some of the rougher treatment that current paper money can go through.
John_Chalisque
The key phrase is "debt". They can refuse to sell you something in exchange for legal tender. They cannot refuse to accept legal tender for a debt.
as long as it's impossible to make an electronic circuit without government help.
Why would I need to be anonymous to buy cigarettes? And who the hell pays for porn?
I see the fnords!
Seems to me it would be pretty easy to scan people as they crossed borders, got on airplanes, or entered a building with RFID scanners. Couldn't this type of tech tell big brother whose money you have and give an idea of where you got it.
I don't like it. Not one bit. Groups like the NSA, TSA, CIA, etc are already going way too far. I hope this doesn't catch on.
"...and would also help to simplify banknote tracking. "
Cause the government doesn't have enough ways to track us already.
The paper bill itself is essentially worthless. It is merely a piece of paper to say the government owes you the value printed; a promissory note.
By adding in electronics, you're adding value to the note itself. Now the note will have value, but you lose that value when you redeem it. How will we offset the value lost in the possession of these notes? Will my electronic note be worth more than your simple paper note? Will I be paid less when given electronic-filled notes?
With gold prices generally going up, and the value of the promise of an American Dollar going down, is it possible that the note itself will be worth more than the promised redeem value from the government?
You do know that Barter is against the US tax code, right?
Up until now (!) the govt had better things to do than track chickens, but conceptually it's in the category of unreported revenue.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
There is no longer any redemptive value. Nixon completely freed the dollar from its linkage to gold and/or silver in 1973. The dollar now represents only an IOU to return it to the Federal Reserve. In other words, it is worthless.
If every bill is accountable to you, and has to be checked for validity before the transaction can be completed,
then all the cash in your pocket can effectively be turned off, at any time.
If the government doesn't like you, you can't buy anything... not even food.
<blockquote><i>The bouillon ownership will be banned like it was pre-1975.</i></blockquote>
Then how will I make soup?!
I know my country has already gone electronic.
If it rhymes it must be true.
Don't believe that it is a measure to stop counterfeits. The majority of the world's counterfeit notes come from North Korea, Iran and Colombia. They can keep up with the technology. The days of some retired printer making bills in his basement are mostly gone. Counterfeit is a miniscule per cent of the world economy. What governments are more interested in is the underground cash economy. Large segments of society works off the books.This means they don't pay taxes. These tags make it easier to track the flow of money. The tags can be read by portable readers smaller than a paperback. These tags are the same kind that are appearing in credit cards. In a recent report a guy walking within a few feet of people on the street was able to read their credit cards.... including account numbers. Now they will also know how much cash and where it came from. Anyone think these readers aren't going to soon be at the entrance to every government building? Good news is that you can already by a sleeve for your cards that blocks the signal. I guess now someone will market blocking wallets.
Oh, so NOW there's gold in our money.
The eternal struggle of good vs. evil begins within one's self.
...I (meaning the government funded Russian counterfeiter) can do better....
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
"Mr. Petersko, we have a record of you receiving this bill at 5:00 p.m. from the ATM. At 5:40 p.m. a marijuana dealer was arrested and he had possession of that bill. Can you explain that?"
"No, sir, I cannot. From 5:00 p.m. until 5:58 p.m. I was fucking your mother in the alley by the ATM. I can't count it as an alibi because she'll deny it, but if you'll examine her anus you'll find some compelling evidence. Alternatively, take your suspicion and go away."
And then I'll pray the L.A.-style cop beating will be caught on cell phone.
Your belief is incorrect.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
One does not necessarily follow from the other. At most, it means that barter is a type of revenue that should be reported. Do you know how one might report such revenue? Do you know if there are systems in place to pay taxes in kind? Do you have any references on these issues?
This is only legal if it is made known before the transaction, once something is rung up a merchant has to accept any legal tender offered.
A sale is a debt, once an item is rung up you are indebted to the retailer for the full price of the sale.
This is exactly what is going to happen. Mark my words, if we go purely electronic we will then be owned by the banks, purely.
I'm sure that he'd be happy with 10% of the home computer callout maintenance business of the entire US. He might be a tad busy though, and would probably need to hire some assistants. And a private jet.
Actually, a merchant has the right to refuse a person's business at any time, and for any reason, so long as the reason does not amount to a human rights violation.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
I am curious as to what banknotes are really for...?
Are they for being able to carry large amounts of money (millions) easily in your pocket
from one bank to another where you want to avoid the possibility of getting robbed....
could one bank manager just be able to contact another and make a transfer from one account into another...
if anyone has any insight, I would really appreciate it....would help me understand the scenario more clearly.
The only true money is the kind of stuff that has been used as money for thousands of years and can always be traded for.
Gold, silver, platinum, nickel, copper, uranium, all of it is good.
But I prefer gold personally, it doesn't rot.
You can't handle the truth.
No, you can always cancel the order and leave. Plenty of people do... “stop... how much is the total? ok, that’s too much... take this and this and this off... now how much...”
Until you have paid, the item isn’t yours.
Distributed Denial of APK: It takes 15 seconds to reply to him anonymously, but wastes tons of his time if we all do it.
Weed. The new currency for the 21st century.
Don't make it optional. When you stop printing paper bills in favor of polymer, and remove all the paper bills from circulation as they return to banks (same process that happens now with existing bills), people will use them.
And I have approximately zero sympathy for the argument that we should give up on a solution that's more economical and harder to counterfeit because "people don't like the way they feel".
Where would the black market be without cash?
Barter? There will always be commodities that many or most people will be willing to accept as exchange. At various times and in various different places alcohol, cigarettes, gold, silver, diamonds, drugs, weapons and all sorts of other things have served as "money" for black market transactions. Cash makes things more convenient, but the black market would function almost just as well without it.
Yes, I meant "unreported Barter" is against the US tax code. Broadly speaking, the US code runs on the starter principle "report any revenue of any kind anywhere". As for precisely where, I'm expecting some major tax code changes will float through within the next couple of years because President Obama has been involved with that area recently, but it usually takes another year for Gov action to show up on actual forms. Roughly, for "scam-barter" attempts like thousands of dollars of swap it shows up in one of the "other income / non-cash transaction" rules on the various forms like schedules C for small biz, D for stocks, and E for Rental.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Fortunately for you, there is also a Gift clause that lets you escape happily as an untracked AC for small amounts like that.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine