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Apple Support Company Sues Customer For Complaint
tekgoblin writes "An Apple authorized Service Provider called System Graph is suing a customer who complained online about poor service from them. The customer Dimitrios Papadimitriadis took his iMac to them because he was seeing gray spots on his LED panel. The Greek company System Graph recommended a full interior cleaning of the iMac and performed the service for Dimitrios. He then got his iMac back and noticed moisture behind the screen and that it still did not work properly and took it back to the repair center. System Graph then told him that they needed to keep his iMac to replace the LED screen and he would be without it for another week.
LCD SCREEN
f i r s t
That is one way to keep customer care costs down.
Goes to show that the customer isn't always the brightest or reasonable when it comes to thinking about the customer service he is complaining to, and how they use their resources.
"Fast friendly service and if you say it wasn't we'll sure you". Apple needs to ship him a new computer and cut off ties with the service company. It'll cost them a 100X as much in the long run.
But no, even worse: We're destined to entwine the legal system throughout every facet of our lives until we reach stasis between wanting to act and fearing to act and then entropy will take over and we'll just...stop.
Orwell: "In a Time of Universal Deceit, telling the Truth is a Revolutionary Act"
You don't even read the stories you post, do you?
The company is called System Graph.
It may be 7 digits, but at least it's a semiprime
A process and method to publicly lodge a complaint about customer service received using publicly accessible media, internet sites, or email distribution lists.
(fill in the rest).
So now anyone who files a complaint is using a patented process and is liable for license fees.
..why can't the gov't just give us the money.
counter sue for court costs + a GOOD attorney + cash for your time + the cost of a new mac.
You're allowed to sue anyone you like for any reason you want. I could sue every single person reading this post in a John Doe lawsuit because I believe that the gray aliens told me that people who read my slashdot posts are making the value of my stamp collection drop, so I want a million dollars from every one of you. Plus expenses.
Here, read up on this guy.
See? You can sue anyone you want for any reason you like. Stories like these are really non-stories. About the only value is in letting you know "hey don't use these guys, they're litigious jerks."
You can sue anyone for any reason, sure - but winning your suit is of course another matter. Let these guys bringing the suit win, then you've got a story.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
After the moisture issue, he sent it back to the company, they told him it'd be a week, he demanded a full replacement of the machine according to some Greek law, the company refused since they weren't the original retailer, he posted about it online, and now the company is suing him. Blah blah blah.
I already have a similar patent. Perhaps you lawyer should contact mine and I will work out a licensing deal for you to cover the parts you are infringing on.
Wouldn't that be the outright dumbest thing in the world. Needing to get a patent license just to patent a stupid Idea?
It's illegal in 26 states, and can sometimes make a nice countersuit.
The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
Remember No Press is Bad Press Even Online?
Could this be a copycat effort to boost pagerank ultimately by posting comments containing their domain name?
... suing your customers if they aren't happy with your efforts/products/lies ?
I smell profit!
It cost money to defend yourself from a lawsuit if it is not dismissed outright, and from the description, it is not one which will be. Case in point, JREF/James Randi had to defend themselves agaisnt scammer because they had shown that the scammer were offering a bogus item. They won naturally, but they did not get any money back (and it was rather expansive 4 zero non trivial amount). So this guy you are saying a non story, it could ruin his life, and if the greek law are the same as in the US, worst case scenario he doesn't get a pip money back once he won.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
The title of this summary, while technically correct, is deceptive. I read it as "Apple's support sues customer for complaint."
I'm gonna sue!
Pulp Audio Weekly - Geek News and Reviews
that he can't just hook up a loaner monitor to his computer while he sends in for a RMA replacement.
My God! It's full of eval()'s.
So I didn't accept it and after 200 or 300 pixels, I just disassembled my Sony Vaio 16.4 inch panel made in North Korea (yeah..) by Sharp and cleaned it, it took about 4 hours of my time but its perfect now.
Don't ask me how the hell the dust got between those two layers.
minor correction, it's not stemgraph but SystemGraph.
source:
http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.systemgraph.gr%2F&lp=el_en&btnTrUrl=Translate
other than that, the real issue is that Apple doesn't have apple stores in Greece but rather authorizes retailers and "service points" with really loose terms and no supervision.
They're tards for leaving crud inside the glossy panel. Yes, the glossy panel is a pain in the butt to clean, but you'd better be sure it's clean when the computer leaves or you'll have more fun on your hands. In addition, be sure you properly test it once you've installed replacement hardware.
He's a tard for thinking that they have any obligation to replace the computer under these circumstances. As they rightfully pointed out, they are not Apple, just a company authorized to service Apple computers. Having worked for an independent Apple service provider in the past, this is a maddening mistake that many customers make, especially irate ones who don't want to listen to a thing you say. The bottom line is that if he didn't buy it from them, then they have no obligation to refund the item. If he wants a refund, THEN TAKE THE ISSUE STRAIGHT TO APPLE.
It doesn't help that this guy has been throwing an utter tantrum to everyone within possible earshot about the issue. It's impossible to say if this is a justified suit as there are no details about what he's said to a ton of other parties about this. If he has indeed lied (and from the grotesque levels of butthurt coming out of the guy, it's possible), then it's a justified lawsuit. We just don't have enough information, and I think too many people are kneejerking in favor of the guy. Having seen some truly idiotic, angry customers, I'm going to reserve judgement here until more comes out.
Everyone knows that apple products 'just work' and never break or ever have problems. Just look at all the mac fanbois comments everytime something is said about apple.
I am a Greek and when I see such stories I keep remembering the situation in my country. On the other hand where there is shiny expensive products you see such attitudes. Apple please make us a favor and start releasing Darwin CDs at cheap prices to boot the OS on commodity hardware. 50$ sounds a good price. Not everybody needs Quartz or Quicktime.
Apple products have a very low penetration rate in Greece due to the absymal support and commercial channels we have to put up with. Greek users have begged SJ in the past to get rid of the local reseller that up to a year ago worked under an exclusivity contract. There was no way to get an Apple computer directly from Apple, you had to get it from them and they would charge something like 50 or 100 euros more for the greek support.
It's easier now to get an Apple computer from big consumer electronics stores but it's still a nightmare when it comes to support quality... so yea, people complain but Greek law allows companies to take people to court for libel and since the courts do not follow the spirit but the letter (the one that best suits the guy that bribes more or has better connections) of the law, if this guy wrote something wrong among 10 valid complaints, he might get the shaft...
End result: apple products in greece will still remain a niche and I will still provide them to my parents through the Italian Apple Store :(
Dammit Apple, you will never learn, will you?
I'm just gonna spread the news everywhere I can.
You're obviously not aware of the fact that the world does not use the Anglo-American court system or laws.
It's a natural cultural bias, preconceived notions on how a legal system works, most of the world uses the Civil Law system (Roman).
I don't know the Greek legal system in details myself, in some systems you cannot sue for non-economical damages, you can however be awarded court costs.
= Waste a bunch of time and money, probably losing the case anyway because your lawyer isn't good enough OR winning and then having to go to court again and again and again when they sue again until they win.
--> Huge waste of time, effort and money.
See also: SLAPP
I was thinking of my next laptop being a MAC. It won't be now, unless Apple takes action here in favor of the customer.
This will cost Apple more in lost sales than it would have cost to replace the laptop. And letting a company like that continue as an authorized service center is certain to have adverse impact on the Apple name.
Mac OS X is not BSD.
Many buzzwords are associated with Mac OS X: Mach kernel, microkernel, FreeBSD kernel, C++, 64 bit, UNIX... and while all of these apply in some way, "XNU", the Mac OS X kernel is neither Mach, nor FreeBSD-based, it's not a microkernel, it's not written in C++ and it's not 64 bit - but it is UNIX... but just since recently.
This video and powerpoint clears up the confusion by presenting details of the Mac OS X kernel architecture, its components Mach, BSD and I/O-Kit, what's so different and special about this design, and what the special strengths of it are.
In October 2007 a friend bought a $240 Samsung 205BW LCD monitor from Fry's Electronics, with a $30 three-year Performance Service Contract (PSC). She ended up not getting a computer until July 2009, when she first truied the Samsung. Occasionally it would go black and stop responding. The same problem occurred on my computers. Smartly, she delegated repair to me.
In July 2009 I took it to Fry's and brought the original box for protection, but Fry's didn't want it. It was ready in September, but still had the same problem. The screen now had a scratch in the middle and a very visible lint ball INSIDE the LCD. I returned it to Fry's for service, along with a page-long problem description to be sure they fixed it this time. I picked it up in November, but it still had the problem. Both times, "lamp failure" was listed as the (non-)issue. I also noticed more damage: a smashed corner, cracks in the stand, and pry marks around the edge of the case. At least the lint ball had been removed from inside the LCD.
In November, I returned it to Fry's a third time. On Thursday, February 18, 2010 I went to pick it up. I had them test it in the store, and it went black in less than five minutes. The PSC specifies replacement after three unsuccessful repairs, but the manager told me that the second and third didn't count because they were "reworks", since both times I had returned it within 30 days of picking it up. He confirmed that this literally meant that they could keep "repairing" it over and over and never have to replace it, if they deemed that the most cost-effective approach. For each repair to count, I had to keep the broken monitor 30 days in between. The PSC offers you a loaner monitor during repair, which you wouldn't be able to keep during these 30 days. Defeated, I left the Samsung there for yet another "repair".
In March I received a certified letter stating that since I hadn't returned the loaner, they were charging me for it and involving their legal department, even though they still had the Samsung and had said in February to keep the loaner. I panicked because I didn't have enough in my account to cover it at the time. I called and was told to ignore the letter. This pushed me past my limit; it was time to make them follow their PSC and provide a replacement. I contacted Fry's corporate customer service and my local Fry's called back with the same "most cost-effective approach" line about continuing to "repair" instead of replacing. After faxing them a copy of my PSC, their legal department finally agreed that they had to replace the Samsung.
Two weeks later they offered a replacement Asus 20" 1600x900 that "meets and exceeds the specs of your unit", even though the Samsung 205BW is 1680x1050. I couldn't understand why their replacement had 18% fewer pixels, and was another brand, even though they had a 20" Samsung model in stock. I explained this and several days later they offered an Acer 22" 1680x1050. The HP loaner monitor had been working perfectly for 6 months, and I didn't want to have any more surprises with another monitor, so I took store credit and paid $32 more to buy the HP. They pointed out that the remaining 7 months of the PSC wouldn't apply to the HP, so I wouldn't be able to take it in to Fry's for repair. As if I'd ever bring another LCD there for repair.
This was frustrating and took many hours of visits to Fry's, troubleshooting, and phone calls. Though they finally replaced it, we're not very satisfied with what we had to go through. Clearly we made mistakes. My friend shouldn't have gotten the PSC, as Samsung already has a 3-year warranty. And we should have tested the Samsung immediately, rather than waiting almost two years. These don't excuse what happened, though. I'm also left with questions. How did they fail to repair it after three attempts? If they had finally repaired the original problem, would the other damage done during repair just have to be put up with? Fry's told me that their technicians are Samsung-authorized. Would I have gotten the same poor service if I had sent this directly to Samsung for repair? A final note, Fry's current PSC apparently does have a "rework" clause, unlike the one from 2007 when the Samsung was bought, so beware.
One of the unwritten issues here is that in the Greek society, the idea that the customer is always right does not hold true. Customers can, and often are, berated by the stores, not because of any inherent evilness, but because that's just the way things are. In Greece, where the economy, before it collapsed recently, was still primarily cash-based, most transactions were between individuals. Stores are primarily mom-and-pop operations, although that is changing, and the mentality between a customer and the seller is still very much one individual to another. Couple that with a society where macho-ness (manga in slang Greek) is valued, it's easy to imagine a shopkeeper and an individual getting their horns locked.
I've experienced this myself (BTW, I'm of Greek descent, living in the US) when dealing over the net with Greek companies; I found a reasonably serious bug in a company's web site, provided a solution (without being asked), and suggested they might send me one of their magazines (USD $10) as a thank-you. Based on the vitriol spewing forth from the site owner, you would think that I was trying to rob them and had caused the bug myself (the bug was that their shopping cart wasn't detecting if javascript was running, and when it was disabled still produced a valid cart order, but with incorrect values)
Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
He's only being sued because he didn't swallow the Jobs cock fast enough, and for expecting his toy computer to keep working after 2 months.
SLAPP is never enforced. It is a nice law in theory, but in reality, a judge never allows it. If you have a good legal staff, one can just keep piling on lawsuits, in YOUR jurisdiction of choice (east Texas for patents), and the defendant now has to fly to whatever bumpkin town you as a plaintiff chose to present your case.
I'm just waiting for companies to have web crawlers to automatically grab data and automatically sue for libel. This was something out of a Piers Anthony book, but I'm sure this is coming. We already have people doing this with dubious P2P data; it is only a matter of time before we see motions of discovery to places because someone posted "blahblah company sucks".
original story appeared in http://www.avclub.gr/forum/showthread.php?t=67483 start your translators if it sounds all Greek to you
Part of the problem here is that the repair centers/techs don't apparently *already have* the parts they needed for repairs. This has become common in recent times, and it just guarantees that huge amounts of time are wasted shipping one part at a time, they call it "just-in-time" but it's really "never-in-time". Imagine what that 3-week cycle would have been if their had been local parts available? What took 3 weeks might have taken 2 or 3 days.
But, companies don't want to keep an inventory of spare parts on hand for repairs, because it's 'too expensive', so they end up wasting a lot of time shipping one or two parts at a time.
Is about about slanderous as you can be. Mission accomplished, Apple Service Dudes! Seriously, this like getting an apology from my mother, e.g. "I'm sorry you're such a jerk!!!" Gee thanks mom. I think I'll take back that car I let you use for free now.
Apple is performing inception?
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe. -- Carl Sagan
This has nothing to do with Apple. It's a third party company certified by Apple. Customer can file complaint formally with Apple against service provider, but don't write headlines to sensationalize.
I hope Apple wakes up and does damage control (like calling off the legal dogs in this fight and making it right with the product). People already pay extra for Apple. What this demonstrates is that Apple's so-called partners are rip-off thugs. This story is going viral and Apple will get the black eye on this.
Not only the XEL-1 anymore. LG now has a 15" OLED screen (actually a television), the 15EL9500 / 15EL950N (the latter variant includes media player features).
The annoying part is that this company has nothing to do with Apple. It's a third-party repair shop with a certification to work on Apple hardware and purchase spare parts. It would be like treating MSCEs as Microsoft employees. But since the submitter is plugging their site, they intentionally used a provocative title to rile up the usual peanut gallery of Apple-bashers, and it's going to get a bunch of attention here.
There are already misinformed comments acting as if this involves Apple. Fucking Slashdot and its intentionally misleading headlines.
these aren't the post your looking for
We have idiots running around blaming Unions, regs, and high labor/power costs.
Not all unions, but Public Unions. They are a monster which should not exist. What capitalistic entity are they fighting against? the taxpayer! they help the politicians and the politicians help them at our cost.
If you look at the budget crisis of California for example, you will see that pensions and other public employee entitlements are already taking more than it's coming in in taxes and by 2012 the state will have to pay four times as much as it takes in taxes.
Why do these entitlements even exist - the public "servant" makes more than an equivalent private employee and has more benefits - what is the reasoning behind the generous "defined-benefit" retirement plans for entire families because one member was public employee ?
What do you give up by being a public employee ? NOT having a guaranteed cushy job with guaranteed pay raises and making more than private employees ? NOT getting health insurance for entire family for a pittance (if at all) ?
Suing your own customers is soo 2010.
FCKGW 09F9 42