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In-Car Technology Becoming More Important Than Horsepower
Gunkerty Jeb writes "It seems, and I think a lot of people have prophesied this for some time, that in-car features like internet radio and assisted driving technologies are surpassing horsepower, handling and design as automotive selling points. I just hope manufacturers have put in the time to consider all the security dangers that exist in owning internet synthesized cars."
Well that explains why Acuras suddenly became so damned ugly.
"I disagree with you" does not equal "flamebait."
And what's wrong with assisted driving technology? It saves lives!
The technology that assists the driver of a modern car drive it safely is amazing. Radar assisted cruise control helps avoid driver frustration because their speed doesn't match the speed of the car ahead of them. Blind spot systems that watch the corners of your vehicle you can't see out the windows and in the mirrors. Backup cameras to avoid running over your children in the driveway. Collision avoidance warning indicators flash a simple red light bar and sound a tone to startle the driver in the event of an impending collision. Head up displays help to keep eyes on the road. Traction control helps avoids spinouts. Stability control helps avoid rollovers. Antilock brakes help stop shorter and quicker. Pre-charged brakes help stop suddenly if the driver isn't assertive enough when attempting to avoid a collision. Voice control to operate the technology without removing your hands from the wheel or eyes from the road.
And then there are the tech features designed to improve survivability of an accident. Pretensioning seat belts. Adaptive airbags. Autodialing 911.
All those mean much more to Soccermom Sally than the difference between 225HP and 235HP. Yes, the gearheads want their superchargers, and they're available too. But the market sells to everyone, not just the Top Gear enthusiasts. And a lot more paying customers value safety and comfort over raw horsepower numbers.
John
In the short run, this leads to distracted drivers, which is bad... ...but in the long run, this takes us ever closer to self driving cars and removing humans from behind the wheel.
Whoever wants to drive manually in my utopian future can do so on a track, for what I care. People kill too many innocent other people by being stupid behind the wheel.
.: Max Romantschuk
You think a normal person cares about horsepower? Or top speed for that matter? Even handling is a bit borderline. You're going to be as driving as fast as you feel comfortable in that situation. If I live in a built up area I don't need an engine that could accelerate a car to lightspeeds.
But the 'techy' stuff is cool.
They need to just focus on smartphone integration. The people craving these features are the early adopters that already have a smartphone. You can get navigation and internet radio with that already.
Im a gamer, not a grammer major. This post is full of spelling and grammer mistakes.
I won't be buying any cars with Onstar in them.
Big, fat, 25" rims... as in, "yo, we herd u like rimz, so we put rimz inside your rimz" rims.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Horsepower? Sure, I've never cared much about that (most cars are "good enough" for my needs). Handling and "design", though? Not so much. Somehow I can't picture handling being less important than dicking around on twitter, or whatever.
sic transit gloria mundi
I get uncomfortable when things approach too much tech, like Gunkerty Jeb notes. Over the life of this relationship, I have learned a lot that I should have known anyway about vehicles. Like "the good old days" when a wire went to a switch that controlled a solenoid or a motor, instead of going to a computer that controls everything until it doesn't and you still have a switch and a motor to replace when they die.
Him, horsepower is king. He cares about the shine, heat and AC in his trucks and is always messing with something to get more horsepower.
Home of The Suki Series
I always thought cars had more to do with sex than getting from A to B, ergo we've just found some more socially acceptable and ecologically friendly way to get laid.
My bicycle works quite fine, except for the not-having-a-girlfriend part.
The first car to add Farmville support will become the best selling car in the country.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
I want to see the sources of all mobile phone use within 100 ft of my car. Of course, ideally I would want a head's up type projection on the windows, showing all the morons using their phone (texting or voice - hands free or regular), in red. But I would settle for a 30 ft warning telling me that the guy in the next lane was doing stupid, dangerous stuff.
One simple way to know which idiots to be extra careful of.
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
I rather have a vehicle with great handling and horsepower; cause in point Porsche GT3 it does with any standard feature such as radio or AC/Heat just pure raw horsepower and handling.
Having recently purchased a car, I can't tell you how many really nicely equipped, horribly underpowered tin boxes I got to drive. Most of them had the option to upgrade the gizmos, but did not even offer a usable engine size. I don't know if this will keep up for long, though -- they sell you "keyless entry" for $1000 (when you can clearly see that the "base model" has everything needed except the remote already built in), a nav system for $2000 ($1000 actually, but it ONLY comes with the leather seats), and the ever insulting "alloy wheels" (like anyone has ever cared) etc. The electronics can't be _that_ expensive to produce, and I think a couple of the Asian manufacturers will end the game and call everyone's bluff by giving these features out for free (Hyundai seems to be going this route).
With parts made by the cheapest Chinese no-name bidder and slapped together by minimally trained clock watchers in Detroit, you can be sure that while the Car of Tomorrow may not fly, it will become obsolete, broken down and uneconomic to fix quicker and more efficiently than ever before. Recycling essentially roadworthy cars with a couple of busted black boxes is certainly going to be a growth industry - unfortunately, it'll all be done in China as well.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Manufacturer automotive electronics are a ripoff. For example, look at an OEM GPS unit. On a new car, it will cost you $1000 - $3000 vs. $200 for a top-end Garmin aftermarket (external) unit. Even the in-dash aftermarket units are substantially less.
Now that cars have aluminum VVT engines, heated seats, anti-lock, and traction control, car manufacturers are running out of shinny new mechanical features to market. Solution? Cram shit like Microsoft Sync into cars.
I don't want any more infotainment technology in vehicles; I deal with enough assholes tapping at their smartphones during my commute.
You might think that I would enjoy a technology-rich driving experience; I'm a software developer, after all. However, my ideal driving experience involves a close connection between me and the road. I want to be in control, and I don't mean I want a lot of LED readouts telling me what the car is doing for me... I want the smooth mechanical feel as I change the gears. I want to feel the engine roar responsively as I press the accelerator. And why would the need for great handling even be questioned?
I definitely don't want another big gadget to keep synchronized with my others.
One might argue that competing on Horsepower is a path to mutual destruction - as cars get bigger and more aggressive, accidents are more dangerous. On the other hand, if people are more concerned with enjoying the time in their car, than driving fast and aggressively, it could be a net improvement in safety.
BTW nothing you do will make people pay more attention to driving - they will always pay only as much attention as is necessary 95% of the time.
I hope they HAVEN'T thought through all the implications! I look forward to the quickly approaching day when all of us have more power than mechanics because we're the only ones who can root & customize our cars. Not like the rest of the suckers on the road with mandated speed caps, GPS tracking, and so on... :)
...so long as you can turn them off when you get to a track.
As a geek I like my car to be...geeky but I also want it to give me a facelift when I stomp on the gas; the Nissan GTR and Audi R8 come to mind (personal favourites).
My point is that for those of us who can actually handle a car and know when it is OK -- and legal -- to cross the line we should be allowed to do so.
It's a car; it's transportation, not a lifestyle. If you're treating it as a lifestyle, you're doing it wrong.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
"I just hope manufacturers have put in the time to consider all the security dangers that exist in owning internet synthesized cars."
They haven't, not even with the wireless sensors to measure tyre pressure. 'twas on this very forum not too long ago.
No wonder people buy the ugliest, slowest, most marketed crap the roll off the assembly line. I'll stick with the BMW, best of both worlds. Looks good, drives good and next gen will use Nvidia tegra2 chips :P
The only electronics I need in my car is an easy to use, powerful interface to my smart phone. It has everything I need to play music, check email, message, surf the web, navigate, etc.
Say good-bye to battery life. Turn on the stereo and wifi and the mileage drops by half.
Your door is ajar
No, it's a door
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
Why is anyone surprised by this?
I'm a lapsed car enthusiast (I wrench on mountain bikes and my home now) and this is pretty obvious for a few reasons:
1) The average consumer doesn't care about additional handling and power. Never has.
2) Nowadays car groups handle about the same.
3) Kia would blow to doors off a 50s sports car on moguls and be right behind it in a straight line.
We are at the point of 'good enough'. Much like CDs have become good enough. Why push for more when you don't need it?
I call it 'The Aristocrats'
The only electronics I need in my car is an easy to use, powerful interface to my smart phone. It has everything I need to play music, check email, message, surf the web, navigate, etc.
I'd settle for a law requiring all car stereos to have a $0.30 headphone in jack to cut the absurd waste of resources and money that goes into adapters, new stereos, and FM transmitters in order to get the audio output all of a foot and communicating with the stereo.
If you get factory gizmo. Only factory rep is authorized to fix it. If a part breaks you have to replace the whole thing.
Let me keep my component system. When a part breaks, I replace the part. The only good upgrade lately is allowing input jack on radio.
Then I can carry my tunes and play them in the car. I don't want to pay a 2nd charge to upload them to the car's disk.
Perhaps OnStar crash calling, a service I hope I never need.
Keep the doors locked, no matter who calls. Don't let the car drive without a real key.
Protect real assets from cyber hackers.
I kind of wonder if this is because horse power has reached a point where more becomes moot. The difference between a 250HP car and a 400HP car is negligible to the average daily driver. So since more doesn't mean much and efficiency is always on everyone's minds, is that why tech has become more important?
Tiger Blooded Bi-Winning Machine
I'll be getting a new car this summer and I've been doing a lot of research. So many cars have a host of engine trims, then a host of interior feature trims. This would seem to vastly over complicate their manufacturing process. One vehicle I was looking at has a base price of about $26K, but can run up to $40K+ once you build it out with the works!
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
Actually, ABS does not provide better braking, except in situations where the driver panics and misuses the breaks. The most common problems solved by ABS are over-braking, where a driver panics, plants his foot in the brake, and puts the car into an uncontrollable skid; and under braking, where the driver is so afraid of skidding the vehicle that they do not apply the brakes as hard as is possible. With a qualified driver on clean roads, who is capable of properly modulating the brakes, ABS provides no benefit over traditional braking systems - in fact, in those conditions traditional braking systems have been demonstrated to provide slightly shorter stopping distances.
ABS is beneficial in that the driver need not be qualified; they need only stomp on the brake pedal to get near the absolute limits of braking under control. Likewise, ABS is a huge benefit in adverse conditions, especially for motorcyclists. In several real world tests, it was demonstrated that professional motorcycle racers could not match the performance of ABS on wet ground.
With that said, although I am experienced enough to ride without ABS (I race motorcycles) I do strongly prefer having it. I've never used it in dry conditions, but in the wet it has literally been a lifesaver.
I'll take power and handling over tech any day...
Horsepower is in-car technology. I'll race my 1993 Civic against your 1893 Mercedes any day.
The great thing with cell phones used to be that you were able to call with it and be called. Then they added a clock, then music, then the rest and they will be adding more.
Cars used to be about bringing you from A to B. Then they added the look, safety, and all the rest and they will be adding more.
So indeed all these new things are more important. However they are important to the people who sell them, because that is the trick to let consumers think they need it and buy a new one every year, long before its real end of life.
And these are not the only things that companies want us to buy new before its end of life. Clothes is another and even food (how much do you trow away or not actually need?) and almost everything else.
Wether this is a good or a bad thing is something else, but do not be mistaken that the importance is driven by the companies, not by the consumers. That is only what they WANT you to think.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Personally there are a lot of people out here that do not think of their cars as an extension to their living room, and the actual driving expirence is what matters. Even power steering is frowned upon.
Too bad the automakers that cater to that audience these days is way out of the price range of us mere mortals :(
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Something that we don't normally get a lot of here is ice / snow. Except for this year we had lots. May by something more useful for it instead of stupid features would have been a limited slip diff!
I'mm afraid when it comes time to purchase my next vechicle I won't be able to get a new car that lacks features I DO NOT WANT.
I personally have no problems with safety features: traction control, rear cameras, blindspot sensors, abs..etc. Bonus points if they can be switched off when needed but not a deal breaker.
If safety features are implemented in a way that promote maximum driver responsibility rather than contributing to laziness (such as a tendancy to forgo head checks due to the presence of blindspot sensors) they stand a real chance to make a positive contribution.
I do not want a car with a cellular radio of any kind. I don't want remote controls or "intelligent keys". I don't want an EDR unless I can clear it by resetting the MIL.
I do not want LED *anything* unless it is a backlight for a display.
I would prefer my next car not run exclusivly on gasoline. Leaf needs to at least triple range and for crying out loud get serious about battery management. They need to be climate controlled!!!
What I really hate is ALL cars (except pickups, crown vics and Cadillacs) have this big divider down the center. I'm a radio guy and I'd love to find a car that has open dash space, I once had a 1970 Plymouth Valiant (Dodge Dart) and then later a 1982 Mercury Zephyer (Ford Fairmont). The Zephyer had a lot of leg room both front and back seat, and a huge trunk too. I wasn't much into 2-way radios at the time but if I wanted I could easily have a radio console in the center. And this car had a 20 gallon fuel tank, at 22 mph, I had easily 400 mile range. I was able to top off the fuel tank, drive straight from SF bay area to LA area and still had fuel to shuttle around (of course that was back when I could "hold it" longer than now).
Another gripe I have of new cars is limited visibility, especially Acuras. Windows all around are shorter in height, rear view mirror seems more "tunnel vision" which makes changing lanes as much work like changing lanes driving a bus or a van. I have the smaller car for manuveurability and good windows is essential.
On subject of older cars vs. newer cars, movie Back To the Future Part II, Marty suggest to Doc they can fly down and stop Biff. Doc says, "he's in a 47 Dodge, we're in a 84 DeLorean. We'll be cut to pieces!" (or a similar quote to you get the idea). But then lighter materials give better handling so use the brain to avoid accidents. But then new cars will not work very well in demolition derbys.
mfwright@batnet.com
I talked to my insurance company about this, and they said it's a wash. Fewer cars going out of control in a skid is pretty much directly balanced by cars rear-ending the ones in front because of increased stopping distance, or intentionally swerving to avoid the car in front and hitting something else.
On my last car, the ABS could be easily disabled by pulling a relay under the hood. It was a 4 wheel 1 channel system, which meant that if any one wheel lost traction the ABS system would affect the braking on all four wheels.
I took it to a parking lot after we got about 4 inches of snow, and did some panic stops with the ABS on and with it off. Stopping distances with ABS off were consistently shorter, although the car tended to stay in a straight line with ABS on and tended to yaw with the ABS off.
This is in line with expectations. ABS is intended to avoid skidding and improve vehicle control. It is an urban legend (or whatever the term is for something a large number of people believe that isn't true) that ABS decreases stopping distance.
Some ABS systems are worse than others. In general, the more the channels, the better. Four channel four wheel systems are optimal for cars of course. This type of system used to be only found on luxury cars. I don't know what's being sold now days but I suspect that low end cars still have low end single channel ABS systems, which significantly increase stopping distance because the brakes for all four tires cut out if any one tire loses traction.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
There are upward of 70 microprocessors, 20 million lines of code (if you include multimedia tech) and hundreds of I/O ports in a typical upscale modern car. Manufacturers are moving towards in-car wireless networking to replace the enormous amount of cabling that current exists. Researchers have already demonstrated to seize control of the engine and brakes by hacking a couple of 2009 model year cars. http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18901-modern-cars-vulnerable-to-malicious-hacks.html Considering that they won't let me use my ipod on an aircraft during takeoff and landing because IT MIGHT CRASH (tell me about it), yeah, count me worried about automobiles and other transportation as well.
There's no sense in being precise when you don't even know what you're talking about. -- John von Neumann
who wouldnt have seen this coming? the horsepower war is long over. when your standard 4 banger has as much oomf as a v8 from the 60's and 70's, but the speed limits have pretty much remained the same, then your gonna look for other things besides horsepower and 0-60 mph. when was the last time that you have pushed your car to the limit, and really was able to run it there for a while? cant? yeah, kinda figured. so what are you gonna spend your $30,000 on? something that can go fast quick? or something thats gonna comfort you on the way? 15 years ago, cup holders were far from standard. these days, cars are being sold cause there is 3 cup holders per passenger, rear entertainment systems, and airbags. soccer moms dont need to get up to speed in 6 seconds, nevermind the fact that cars do that pretty well as is these days.
But I don't want technology driving my car. Assistance is okay - if I can disable it, but the driver needs to be in control of operating the vehicle.
I feel every time some committee in some conference room thousands of miles away makes decisions for the driver of the car, the driver looses control over operation of the car which means operating that car becomes less safe for the driver and everyone around him.
Technology is no substitute for knowing how to drive the car.
You mean "regular" people would rather do anything other than pay attention to actually driving?
Impossible!
I think the GP's point still applies: if you're spending that much time in your car every day and it's not your job, you're doing it wrong. I have a 15 minute commute each way and would move if it ever went over 30 minutes. There are better things to do with your time than having your butt heated while listening to traffic reports for an hour.
If you commute for 10 hours a week, you're looking at 500 hours in a year, assuming a 2 week vacation. That's over twelve 40-hour weeks of commuting. You could spend that time at work earning extra money, or spend it on hobbies or sports, or with your loved ones. I don't know anyone who would pick sitting in a car, no matter how comfortable, over at least one of those options.
Reccently I had an epiphany while driving an old volkswagen kombi van I borrowed for a weekend - it made me a safer driver, because it was everything a modern car was not, noisy, unstable, harsh, and no power-assisted anything. I did something unusual ... I held on to the steering wheel with both hands, and - get this - I anticipated the road ahead because I needed to change gears myself - and even more crazy, I didn't follow slow drivers 10 feet behind. I know! right!?
So what do I want in a car now? I want a car to not be a flying couch and a sensory deprivation tank. No wonder people are driving like idiots and no wonder when kids get in a car these days they go nuts -- In the van the neices and nephews were entertained by the ride itself.
Give me, steering that feels like it's connected to something, and doesn't take one finger to turn and the other hand to talk on the cellphone with.
Brakes and that have more feel, accelerator more progressive and not so light and easy to be over zealous with.
MPG-aware cruise control... please.
For kicks, I want a proximity warning sensor - no, not for me, for the tailgaters. Something that flashes a light or illuminated sign at the guy behind
"Watch your following distance / your asking for an accident." in scrolling text.
Please.
After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
Most normal people drive used cars. The problem is the category of people who buy new cars who get catered to. The rest of us buy cars which were once what someone else wanted. Given the average age of vehicles on the road in a developed nation is something between 7-14 years, really, we do not get the reliable economical fun machines we need (you can have those, but they are so sought after they are not cheap). The manufacturers are just not anticipating what the national fleet needs to be in 5-10 years. We will have to put up with cars that have every trending hipster gizmo we don't need.
My car has a mini disc player in it's sound system, because that what was hot in 1999 when someone bought it new.
That means in 5-10 years time, pretty much every car will have a bloody iPod dock, despite that iPods won't exist anymore except as e-waste.
After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
There's no substitute for cubes or pubes ( and a 4 gear )! Y'all are becoming just passengers.
MADD's "alcohol-related fatalities" count accident in which the driver had no impairment from alcohol. MADD is a sick organization. If a passenger was intoxicated, it was alcohol-related. If there's a beer in the car, it was alcohol-related. They are progressively lowering the BAC level to a point where you're not even impaired if you are just over the line. They promote the use of "breath alcohol" machines that are notoriously inexact, which have put innocent people in jail and deprived them of the right to drive. I would trust NHTSA's statistics much more than MADD's.
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
Down under it is considered a no-no for advertisers to list features on products that can be use taken as law breaking.
High power -> speeding -> not allowed.
Hard thing to talk about when everycar can do the speed limit.