Slashdot Mirror
Pot Grower's Privacy Challenged
damaged_sectors writes "A map marking what are supposed to be secret locations of 60 warehouses and other buildings where medical marijuana is grown in Boulder has accidentally been made public by the city. Officials say an 'oversight' led them to publish the map on the city's Web site. Kathy Haddock, Boulder's senior assistant city attorney who advises the council on medical marijuana issues, said Thursday that the map would be removed from the city's Web site. No conspiracy here folks. In other news the council will decide at its Jan. 18 meeting whether Boulder should circumvent the open records act exemption for cultivation centers by requiring applicants for medical marijuana business licenses to waive their right to privacy. The council could force all growing centers to sign such a waiver as a condition of receiving a city-issued business license. While the risk this would make it easier for Federal authorities to raid grow-ops might not concern council members and others opposed to medical marijuana — I have to wonder what sort of mentality thinks exposing growers to the very real risk of armed robbery by criminals is justifiable."
Governments should't be keeping secrets
i want some medical crack and heroine... better stuff
But let's compare to some other businesses. Banks, for instance, are businesses that are often targeted by criminals. They - OH MY GOD - list their addresses publically! I feel the bank's right to privacy has been violated here. Not only that, but how can the banks survive now that the criminals know where they are?! OMG!
Seriously, people. If you legalize the growing of marijuana, it's just like any other product now. You want to run a respectable business, then do it. If you are concerned about security, do what any other company concerned about security would do, put down the pipe, and GET SOME SECURITY.
Should we hide the locations of diamond distributors? Electronics makers? Lots of people deal in valuable merchandise, and they hire security and pay for insurance to cover the risks.
Will growers be liable to patients when they contract lung cancer from their medical marijuana? Will tenants of apartment buildings be able to sue their neighbors due to the effects of second hand medical marijuana smoke? May I smoke my medical marijuana as prescribed at my workplace?
I support medical cannabis -- indeed, I support the end of all drug prohibition laws. But how is there a "right to privacy" any more than for any other pharmacetuical? Every pharmacy has stuff with more street value than weed, yet the locations of licensed pharmacies are public records, aren't they?
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
"Medical marijuana" is just a scam. 60 "grow facilities" in Boulder, Colorado? Four times as many "dispensaries" in San Jose as 7-11s?.
If it's to be treated as a medical treatment, it should be moved to Schedule II or III, prescribed by doctors, and distributed through pharmacies. Some people need to be on full-time pain relievers, but not that many. And in real treatment, you try to get people off medication.
That's funny... Seems to be a lot of that going on these days
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
At most, one attempted theft from each one, followed by an obituary in the following days' paper. Solve three problems at once: 1) no trial expenses for the attempted theft, 2) dead thieves stop stealing permanently, 3) dead addicts are free from addiction. And Halliburton gets a bounty per head.
As a former Boulder resident, I challenge anyone who thinks this is a privacy issue to find any address in Boulder where they aren't growing pot. It's as "legal" there as it is anywhere.
Let's be clear - this is a business license. The city is well within their right to place requirements on a business as part of a business license application. Now, the term used here was waive their "right to privacy", but this is almost certainly not what the city ordinance will say. The ordinance will likely say that inspections can be done to ensure compliance with state law as well as for public safety reasons to make sure that there isn't a fire danger.
I'm not sure what the intentions of Boulder are, but we just got done crafting our own city ordinances for our small town in Montana. I think we did a fantastic job and one of the key objectives of writing it was to set up the guidelines under which the business license could be issued. The other major concern was zoning. At no time did any of us think, "Oh, we gotta collect all this information so we can do a raid." We collected it because a) it's the same information we collect for other businesses and b) there are some special concerns related to public safety and it would be completely irresponsible to to ignore those. For example, we require a security system and an inspection to make sure one was installed.
----- obSig
You want to argue for legalization of marijuana? Fine, argue for the tax potential. Or take a philosophical perspective to liberty and how severe ill effect should the be before we limit that. Or argue based on actual data about countries where it is legal. Or argue that we shouldn't criminalize something that we can't really control. I still won't agree with your conclusion but those are all valid views on which reasonable arguments can be based upon.
But the "It's a plant" and "You can't criminalize a plant, man" are just stupid. If you are saying that everything natural should be legal just because it is natural, you are arguing for cannibalism, murder, incest and numerous other things that do occur in nature but we prefer to keep illegal. When arguing whether substance X should be legal or illegal is really quite irrelevant from whether it is created by growing plants or synthetizing it in a laboratory (aside from the "difficult to control" thing, which is whole another argument)
The danish can:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/denmark/1499735/Taxpayers-foot-bill-for-disabled-Danes-visits-to-prostitutes.html
In a move that has provoked angry protests but has delighted the country's legalised sex industry, the Danish government has launched an information campaign advising the disabled how best to go about obtaining erotic services.
...
In Aarhus, the second-largest city, disabled residents have been told that they may visit a brothel or call a male or female prostitute to their home once a month and pass the bill - which can be up to £300 - on to the state.
You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
Medical Marijuana is a scam. "Medicine" doesn't come in "joints".
There have been numerous busts of people with Med Licenses selling on the street... then there's this... http://www.denverpost.com/news/marijuana/ci_17040253
Grow Houses using Medical as a cover for illegal sales.
Legalize it
Control it
Tax it
of those banks. Or to the big money distribution center that transports money from and to the banks, ATMs and all that.
I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
That's great, but it's NOT legal. Not anywhere in the US. Hence, there is still a black market, and all the violent crime that comes with a black market.
Until the day when one doesn't have to petition authority to purchase marijuana, there will be a black market, and there will be violent crime as a result. Until then, the destructive side of prohibition (aside from oppression) hasn't been solved at all.
Classic propaganda from someone who obviously has no direct contact with anyone who actually consumes the stuff. The people I know who do consume it are more caring and intelligent than those I see constantly opposing it's existence. but.... haters gonna hate.
Never say never. Ah!! I did it again!
As opposed to the very real risk of armed robbery every business and person faces? This is a red herring.
And this becomes a non-issue. After all liquor stores publicize their locations. After all liquor is a more addictive, more harmful drug by orders of magnitude yet it is regulated and legal.
Oh, look... he's advocating security through obscurity. Haven't we already agreed this isn't security? I guess not.
The way to FIX this is to legalize it. Then anybody can grow it - it's not that hard or expensive - and they'd have no reason to send squads of armed thugs to someone else's house to raid their stash. Then security wouldn't even be an issue. Diamonds and gold are valuable because they're relatively scarce (hard to mine), but marijuana is valuable ONLY because it's been arbitrarily made illegal.
I'm anxiously waiting to hear the decision. If they start posting this information I'll expect a call from my insurance carriers announcing a rate increase or cancellation. Either way I'll have to hire real security until I can move shop.
It should be moved away from Schedule I, and eventually it will be, but that has to be done federally. Many people are pushing for that change, but simply because the people in those states weren't willing to wait until the federal change was made does not make it a scam.
A) Those with a chronic disease or disorder will self-medicate. Branches of psychology and physiology are dedicated to its study. Examples are easily found for all chordates.
B) The correlational association for a period of six years can be monstrous. We're talking thousands of degrees of freedom. Need to see the original study to see how they are controlled for. Really large freedom for selection errors such as 'Those that have been arrested for pot possession will more likely admit to pot use' That statement may not be true but gives example for what you have to control for, or you might end with a conclusion that jail causes crime.
C)...this study builds off other studies... is an awfully hand-wavy statement. What are these studies?
D) As far as finding about "Association Between Cannabis Use and Psychosis-Related Outcomes Using Sibling Pair Analysis in a Cohort of Young Adults" I wish I wanted to spend the $30 and read the actual paper, but meh, the abstract leaves me with a few questions as the study is about 228 sibling pairs but the business week article is stats about a subset of 1594 of 3801 subjects that make up the core data of the study.
...just government ineptitude. Idiots of the world.
I do not think that anyone can sign away provisions of a State law? The Colorado Medical Marijuana Code specifically requires licensing authorities to keep location information of optional premises cultivation operation confidential.
12-43.3-310.Licensing in general.
14) THE LOCATION OF AN OPTIONAL PREMISES CULTIVATION OPERATION AS DESCRIBED IN SECTION 12-43.3-403 SHALL BE A CONFIDENTIAL RECORD AND SHALL BE EXEMPT FROM THE COLORADO OPEN RECORDS ACT. STATE AND LOCAL LICENSING AUTHORITIES SHALL KEEP THE LOCATION OF AN OPTIONAL PREMISES CULTIVATION OPERATION CONFIDENTIAL AND SHALL REDACT THE LOCATION FROM ALL PUBLIC RECORDS. NOTWITHSTANDING ANY PROVISION OF LAW TO THE CONTRARY, A STATE OR LOCAL LICENSING AGENCY MAY SHARE INFORMATION REGARDING THE LOCATION OF AN OPTIONAL PREMISES CULTIVATION OPERATION WITH A PEACE OFFICER OR A LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY.
24-72-202. Definitions. As used in this part 2, unless the context otherwise requires:
(6) (b) "Public records" does not include:
(XI) Information security incident reports prepared pursuant to section 24-37.5-404 (2) (e) or 24-37.5-404.5 (2) (e); or
(XII) Information security audit and assessment reports prepared pursuant to section 24-37.5-403 (2) (d) or 24-37.5-404.5 (2) (d); OR
(XIII) STATE AND LOCAL APPLICATIONS AND LICENSES FOR AN OPTIONAL PREMISES CULTIVATION OPERATION AS DESCRIBED IN SECTION 12-43.3-403, C.R.S., AND THE LOCATION OF THE OPTIONAL PREMISES CULTIVATION OPERATION. (emphasis theirs)
Even if a cultivation operation waved their rights to privacy the city would still have to keep their locations confidential as per State Law. The poster's last comment about allowing law enforcement access is moot because that have access under part 14 of 12-43.3-310
So... where is a link to the map?
This is more toward Cryptome.org territory as its was accidentally posted as part of a memo then publicly stated for withdrawal by the city government for secrecy reasons.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:0VB_QrXYauUJ:www.bouldercolorado.gov/index.php%3Foption%3Dcom_content%26task%3Dview%26id%3D12380%26Itemid%3D22+http://www.bouldercolorado.gov/index.php%3Foption%3Dcom_content%26task%3Dview%26id%3D12380%26Itemid%3D22&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a
The map was included in the PDF for Jan 14 weekly updates to the city council
http://www.bouldercolorado.gov/files/City%20Council/WIPS/2010/Jan_14_WIP/Medical_Marijuana_WIP.pdf
The memo has not even a classification nor mark stating it is secret, confidential, restricted, eye only ,etc yet will be withdrawn because it is "Secret."
The memo is _Still_ reachable as of Jan 9... the fast wheels of city government
Don't want to break the law?
Don't want to get robbed?
Don't grow, sell, or use drugs.
No sympathy for criminals. If you are stupid enough to grow pot and put yourself and your neighbors at risk of armed robbery, it's your fault and nobody else's.
Study Finds No Cancer-Marijuana Connection
To quote:
"People who do drugs are not *criminals*. They might be *sick*, but I don't think jail is gonna heal 'em. Yep, thank God they caught me. What was I doin' ruinin' my life with that marijuana? I wanna thank Bubba, my rehabilitator back there. I would not want to come out of jail wanting to do less drugs, I would wanna come out mainlining heroin into my fucking eyeball. I don't know the case yet that jail healed anybody. K? K, America? Wake up from you rlaw enforcement fucking fantasy, and shut up. It ain't gonna work, K? It's not gonna work. So let's move on to a plan that *might* work. Isn't that simple? Feels good, too, don't it?"
In sake of not being partially off-topic, my two cents boils down to *safe* integration of medical marijuana into our society. Are the local cops willing and able to legally protect these cultivators if said address(es) are made public? Are the cultivators able to protect themselves legally if necessary? Should a single marijuana plant be grounds for public announcement if said grower is unable to protect themselves from what could potentially be life or death situations?
I do not pretend to know the answers to these questions, nor do I wish to live in a fantasy land that cannabis cultivators are in a fair or safe world today when it is *still* federally illegal to possess such, even though, in my opinion, it is unconstitutional for such to be enacted by the federal government and not on a case by case basis via state level. Let the states decide as it were meant to be in the first place. Either way, we *must not* continue ignoring these issues as we have been and enact policies that show compassion towards fellow human beings.
Drugs nor people are inheritedly safe even when proper moderation and education is exercised. We must accept this but also accept that drugs have been and will continue to be in our society for the foreseeable future to come. The drug policies today are not keeping us safe from drugs whatsoever. Is safety not what matters to us? We cannot stop the universe from turning just as we cannot stop chemical reactions from occuring.
Believe it or not, but sometimes the usage of a drug does indeed outweigh the costs of not doing so for an individual and all others concerned. The federal nor sometimes state governments can decide this for us. We must integrate the decision making process peacably and compassionately; sharing roles between the patients, physicians and pharmacists on a local level.
I have this social disability called "marriage" - can your government send me ideas on how to best go about to obtain erotic services?
equals Epic Fail. If finding such a list is as easy as a trip to Google, then simply post the results and be done with it. Your response to the challenge makes it pretty obvious no such public FDA list exists...
Do you still use the "I'm rubber and you're glue" response too?
I came into this story just to see all the pro-marijuana conspiracy theories posted by the pothead slashdotters... I wasn't disappointed, surprise surprise.
Big Pharma.
How many people died last year in America from bad reactions to prescribed medications? How many people died last year from abusing "safe" prescription medications. Sounds like maybe you'd have a different stance so long as pot be sold with a small booklet listing possible negative reactions, like prescription meds are.
Your use of the word scam is specious at best.
"Dustin's not here, man."
A 300 pound hooker doesn't sound like such a great plan.
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
joggers would be at the top of on my list of people who should not get medical treatment!
So, in prohibitionist America, not only can people wind up in psych wards because they use recreational drugs, but we also wind up with a larger prison population than China by arresting millions of drug users who do not wind up in the hospital as a result. Sorry, but I do not really follow your logic here; I would rather live in a country where people were free to put themselves in a psychiatric hospital by abusing drugs than one in which people who are perfectly sane are sent to prison for the crime of possessing drugs.
Palm trees and 8
Perhaps you could get 3x 100 pound hookers.
You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
If the problem here is that the growing factories will attract unwanted attention, the growers (assuming they were private citizens) can just quadruple their growing output and prepare bags for armed robbers. It's insane to assume they could somehow prevent them. Heck, that could be a new industry; those with medical conditions can grow their pot and those with firearms can purchase them. I mean, growing pot is pretty cheap, guarding against armed villains isn't.
If the city officials don't approve firearm-purchases, perhaps they should provide all the sites with constant police guards.
These smokers don't believe that they are doing enough harm to have the government interfere. And I think that most juries would agree with that point of view. If juries were working correctly, by only punishing when they are convinced that the defendant did something wrong, not simply the defendant breaking the law. I think we would have a system that would have more sanity.
Prohibition has always worked out so well, I'm sure that it *must* be the right answer.
Prohibition (drugs/alcohol/prostitution/gambling) is the right answer if your in organized crime, otherwise your left with protection rackets and robbery style work. These make people upset in 99.9% of all transactions.
The danish can:
Amsterdam is NOT in denmark.
My bad, I was orignally gonna post a different article. The article I found came from the daily fail, so I didnt really want to post it. I changed articles w/o changing the title.
Here was the article I had originally planned to post.
http://findarticles.com/p/news-articles/daily-mail-london-england-the/mi_8002/is_2010_August_16/disabled-visit-amsterdam-prostitute-taxpayer/ai_n54807855/
You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
Your argument sounds compelling. I'm sure it is in large part correct, if not completely so.
However, I myself don't want to follow nor lead. How's that? I just want to be left alone by (most) other people. How do I fit in this scheme? Or maybe I'm just a sociopath, who knows.
Seriously, I'd like to know what my place is in all this. Would you care to expand on your theory? I'd appreciate it if you did.
What a business is engaged in is a matter of public record. Do we really want gov't involved in hiding what various businesses are doing?
Until the governments of the united states hold a truth and reconcilliation comission to deal with the opression of pot heads, I don't see why pot heads should forgive them for 70 years of oppression.
What, they change a few laws and pot heads are supposed to just forgive, forget, and fall in line? Why the hell is that exactly?
I say, until they stop talking about allowing medical use, and start talking about reparations and expunging criminal records, then we have nothing to talk about with them.
Stay underground and.... overgrow the nation!
-Steve
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
Should TOTALLY change business title! "It's like, whoa, good stuff. Mannn."
Seriously though since when does personal privacy laws apply to businesses?
A: They don't.
Issued solved.
If you are using your personal information in the context of running a business, then it no longer constitutes as personal information, and as such is not subject to privacy legislation. Isn't Kathy a lawyer or something? Maybe doing too much marijuana advising....
From the article:
The timing of the incident is fortuitous in that the council will decide at its Jan. 18 meeting whether Boulder should circumvent the open records act exemption for cultivation centers by requiring applicants for medical marijuana business licenses to waive their right to privacy.
Accident? Maybe I've been watching too much of The Wire, but maybe it wasn't an accident at all.
http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1932290&cid=34749168