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Google Fires Back About Search Engine Spam

coondoggie writes "The folks at Google are taking issue over spam and the quality of Google searches, which some claim has gone down in recent months. Today on Google's official blog, Principal Engineer Matt Cutts said, 'January brought a spate of stories about Google’s search quality. Reading through some of these recent articles, you might ask whether our search quality has gotten worse. The short answer is that according to the evaluation metrics that we’ve refined over more than a decade, Google’s search quality is better than it has ever been in terms of relevance, freshness and comprehensiveness. Today, English-language spam in Google’s results is less than half what it was five years ago, and spam in most other languages is even lower than in English.' Cutts also explained that the company has made a few significant changes to their method of indexing."

270 comments

  1. Pshaw by biryokumaru · · Score: 3, Funny

    My anecdotal evidence trumps your empirical evidence any day!

    --
    When you're afraid to download music illegally in your own home, then the terrorists have won!
    1. Re:Pshaw by AvitarX · · Score: 2

      More like, bullshit agregators that link you to a search for your google search on their site could be considered "fresh", "comprehensive", and maybe even "relevant", or could be considered SPAM.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    2. Re:Pshaw by mwvdlee · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It would, if Google include an option to filter out entire domains from search results. Google could then simply monitor these domains and try and figure out why people take the trouble of filtering them out.

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    3. Re:Pshaw by martin-boundary · · Score: 5, Insightful
      There's no way to know what kind of empirical tests they do. So your anecdotal evidence may well measure a different aspect that is being ignored in their tests.

      Empiricism is all about saying "Here's what I did, and those are the results.". It's not empirical to say "Trust me, I did something I can't tell you about, and the results are really good".

    4. Re:Pshaw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just use hotbot. I found them through gopher on my bad-ass lynx account.

    5. Re:Pshaw by Zerth · · Score: 3, Informative

      if you add -site:example.com it removes all hits from that site. I have noticed recently that I no longer have to exclude sites that I used to, such as those that just copy excerpts from other message boards.

      Perhaps they are watching.

    6. Re:Pshaw by alostpacket · · Score: 2

      They used to but they took it out in favor of only allowing people to star items. Why they did this is beyond me. Maybe it gave too much of a chance to game the system. But honestly, it was the only thing that made my searches relevant again. It was the only truly useful feature they've added since, well ever.

      When I search for a few coding terms I dont want 10 different sites that have scraped their contant from stackoverflow, I dont want 10 representations of the same unanswered email, or 10 experts-exchange copy-cats. I dont want sites that just show you your own google search terms and some related terms. I want the not-so-well known blogs that people dont always link to.

      If we could ban that stuff we'd be so much better off. Google could crowdsource spam control and search quality. They do it for Gmail so why not results. It's not that hard really. I have much more of an inclination to ban something than to pollute my favorites list with stuff i think is ok-ish. Even if it became too easy to game (ala page rank did?) then they could make it not count except for that one user.

      --
      PocketPermissions Android Permission Guide
    7. Re:Pshaw by Galestar · · Score: 1

      Would be nice if you could set something in http://www.google.ca/preferences?hl=en once, and then you would never see these sites though. If someone knows a setting that I'm missing that will let you do this, please let me know here.

      --
      AccountKiller
    8. Re:Pshaw by jack2000 · · Score: 1

      Not enough, damned expert's exchange! I had to download a grease monkey script and everything, seriously screw those guys. And have you tried searching for a name of an executable? "HURRR CLICK HERE TO FIX XYZ.EXE RELATED ERRORS"
      NO! I just want relevant information on the damn executable not traps for computer illiterate people and the shovel ware the sites are peddling.

    9. Re:Pshaw by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Speaking of anecdotal evidence, just now I was going to google something about the Nyquist Limit, but I couldn't remember the "Nyquist" part. CD limit, CD 22kHz limit, digital sound limit... I finally gave up. Without the word "Nyquist" or knowledge of the Nyquist Limit, you just can't google to find out why you can't record a frequency higher than 22kHz on a CD.

      So Google, get working on it.

    10. Re:Pshaw by ShavedOrangutan · · Score: 1

      Not enough, damned expert's exchange! I had to download a grease monkey script and everything, seriously screw those guys.

      If you set your user-agent to the Google Bot, you can see the actual page from expertsexchange.com.

      When a site feeds a different page to the bot than to a user, it should be black listed entirely from results.

      --
      Godaddy is a scam and a ripoff.
    11. Re:Pshaw by Scrameustache · · Score: 3, Funny

      Perhaps they are watching.

      Oh please, you make it sound as if google had vans full of surveillance equipment roaming the streets, spying on everyone! Just more of the usual tin foil haberdashery from the conspiracy theory crowd.

      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    12. Re:Pshaw by Serious+Callers+Only · · Score: 1

      Would love to see this come back - I too was happy with the feature they introduced to downvote results.

      There should be some way for users to down-vote these scammer parasites like efreedom.com which just serve content from other sites with adverts. Just as we collectively downvote spam, which ensures most people never see it, we should be able to do the same with search results.

    13. Re:Pshaw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I have the following AdBlock Plus filters (copy and paste works in the filter list, too):
      experts-exchange.com##*.relatedSolutions
      experts-exchange.com##*.squareSignUp
      experts-exchange.com##div.qStats+a
      experts-exchange.com#div(blurredAnswer)
      experts-exchange.com#div(sectionFour)
      experts-exchange.com#div(startFreeTrialEcho)

      Plus a RefControl rule that says for experts-exchange.com always send "http://www.google.com" as the referer.

    14. Re:Pshaw by LearnToSpell · · Score: 1

      If you set your user-agent to the Google Bot, you can see the actual page from expertsexchange.com.

      You can click the cache button too and see it that way. Still annoying though. I hate those assbandits.

      When a site feeds a different page to the bot than to a user, it should be black listed entirely from results.

      Agreed.

    15. Re:Pshaw by RussellSHarris · · Score: 1

      That's the one that says that the sampling rate has to be twice as fast as the maximum limit frequency you want to detect, right?

      http://www.google.com/search?q=twice%20the%20frequency%20limit

      Maybe you used a different Google.

    16. Re:Pshaw by lfp98 · · Score: 1

      Really? Seems to me if anything it has gotten worse. Often several of the first 10 hits are aggregators like bizrate or nextag. And often they don't even have anything resembling the item you were looking for but they somehow have created a bogus content phrase to make it look like they do.

    17. Re:Pshaw by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      In this case, it does. I don't care how well Google does by some relevance metric. I don't even care how good it is at returning useful results to you, let alone their virtual search user. I care about how good Google is at returning relevant results to the things that I search for. If it returns 100% accurate and useful results to the 100,000 most common search queries, but useless results to things I search for, I won't use it.

      As it stands, Google's results for my searches are:

      • Noticeably worse than they were a few years ago. This is by a simple metric: how often I need to click through to page 2.
      • Not noticeably better than their competitors.

      The latter point is more important - If they were significantly better, I might have stuck with them. As it is, I switched to a competitor that provided a better UI and a better privacy policy.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    18. Re:Pshaw by Unequivocal · · Score: 1

      Yeah really - and next some paranoid crackpot will be saying that Google is *scanning the air* recording electromagnetic signals from inside of people's houses. We need to get this population on better meds.

    19. Re:Pshaw by Unequivocal · · Score: 1

      You've got me thinking of what an "adblock" for google searches would look like. Hmm. If every google search POST is intercepted in the browser by this adblock tool and then stuffs a bunch of additional commands onto it:

      So the search "maytag washing machine broken" would get turned into:

      "maytag washing machine broken -site:junkadvice.com -site:bottomfeeder.com -site:priceaggregator.com"

      I wonder how many of those you can ship to google and still have it pay attention to them?

      I guess alternatively you could suppress those results via CSS/Javascript when they are displayed, so you don't always see 10 results per page but sometimes only 5 or 6, b/c the others are bullshit sites..

      Good idea? Already exists?

    20. Re:Pshaw by dremel · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I use a Google Customized Search Engine (CSE) configured to promote StackOverflow and block ExpertSexchange. Here, you can try it out: www.google.com/cse/home?cx=007350804174195462206:7etfz1pyl-s . I've set it as my default search engine in Chrome and never have to think about it again.

    21. Re:Pshaw by whitehaint · · Score: 1

      just type -site.com An example would be a search for "how to" First hit is ehow, re enter the search "how to -ehow.com". Problem solved.

    22. Re:Pshaw by LSDelirious · · Score: 1

      Google used to (2008-2009) have a "dont show again" little x button next to search results if you were signed into your Google account. It only worked for specific pages, but I did notice after a while the domains I kept x'ing out came up less frequently in other results where I had yet to block any returns. Not sure why but it just disappeared one day, although I still see the "You have removed results from this search, (click here to) show them" for terms I'd blocked some results on.

      --
      Slavery is the legal fiction that a person is property; A Corporation is the legal fiction that property is a person.
    23. Re:Pshaw by Surt · · Score: 1

      But my empirical evidence trumps their flawed analytics.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    24. Re:Pshaw by mikestew · · Score: 1

      Great idea. I've been meaning to spend a few hours learning how to write a Safari extension to do just that. But I'm busy right now and perpetually lazy, unfortunately. And as far as I know it doesn't exist for Safari, and I don't think Firefox when I looked.

    25. Re:Pshaw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That would be the part he mentioned about knowing what the nyquist limit is before you searched.

    26. Re:Pshaw by DDLKermit007 · · Score: 1

      Eh...wake me when they start downranking pay for info sites like Experts Exchange. Such a crock when you're solution is hidden behind a well placed paywall and the one without a paywall elsewhere is on page 2 or 3.

    27. Re:Pshaw by eugene+ts+wong · · Score: 1

      Which competitor?

    28. Re:Pshaw by Unequivocal · · Score: 1

      Thanks - at first it seemed crazy to me that google doesn't do this already for us, but then their definition of spam and ours seems pretty different (overlaps on the obvious ones). Experts-exchange to me is the best example of this -- to me it's useless. I'm not paying for advice, so why show that one to me ever? We need SearchBlock (tm). Maybe I'll toy around this weekend..

    29. Re:Pshaw by russotto · · Score: 1

      So Google, get working on it.

      Wow, you're good. I just searched for "CD 22khz limit" and result #6 now mentions Nyquist on the results page!

    30. Re:Pshaw by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 1

      You can add it to your search bar's URL.

    31. Re:Pshaw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the Google Bot, you can see the actual page from expertsexchange.com.

      What now? They have a Google Bot doing ExpertSexChange.com?

      What will those googlies think of next?

      -@|

    32. Re:Pshaw by AlienIntelligence · · Score: 1

      Yeah really - and next some paranoid crackpot will be saying that Google is *scanning the air* recording electromagnetic signals from inside of people's houses. We need to get this population on better meds.

      Lol... whoosh?

      He means, that the people in charge of refining results
      probably use searches with the boolean (-) to figure out
      why people are trending to (-) a site.

      You do know that Google studies the searches made
      on their site right? I worked on this one project for Google
      9 years ago. I was given a CRAPLOAD of data that I
      had to manually mine for correlations. Cool thing is,
      I see the results of that project everyday when I do a
      search.

      -AI

      --
      For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion
    33. Re:Pshaw by Unequivocal · · Score: 1

      I think you think that I replied to Zerth - possibly /. was hiding the comment from Scrameustache which was who I was responding to. His comment was pretty funny..

    34. Re:Pshaw by trawg · · Score: 1

      Wow! I knew you could do site:example.com but didn't realise you could use it as an exclusion modifier as well. Thanks!

    35. Re:Pshaw by Firehed · · Score: 1

      Scroll down. WAY down. EE serves the same content to google, they just don't make it obvious. That said, I completely agree about blacklisting.

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
    36. Re:Pshaw by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 1

      That's the method the guy at Give Me Back My Google was using, but it apparently he can no longer get it to work reliably across all of Google's servers and he's given up updating. To bad too, it was a useful service and one Google should be offering themselves.

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    37. Re:Pshaw by the_womble · · Score: 1

      Do you log into Google or leave Google cookies? You might be seeing those sites excluded from your personalised search.

    38. Re:Pshaw by awyeah · · Score: 1

      I'd also like to know which competitor.

      --
      Why, no, I haven't meta-moderated lately. Thanks for asking!
    39. Re:Pshaw by yahwotqa · · Score: 1

      Result #5 for me as of now. I clicked it to help promote it. Let's make it #1, everyone! :)

    40. Re:Pshaw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      DuckDuckGo, which he likes to remind us of in nearly every article about search engines.

      Of course, DuckDuckGo simply scrapes Bing results and gives them to you, with a bit of sugar from Wikipedia and a few other sources. The sole benefit over using Bing directly is that it strips your IP from the query to Bing (however if you include personally identifying information in your query, obviously that gets passed on to Bing).

      You can get similar results with an anonymizing proxy or Scroogle. Ask.com also has an enhanced privacy mode that you can select.

      http://ostatic.com/blog/duckduckgo-a-new-search-engine-built-from-open-source

    41. Re:Pshaw by krou · · Score: 1
      Urm, to be fair to DuckDuckGo, they don't just scrape Bing. From their FAQ:

      How do you get your results?

      From many sources, including DuckDuckBot (our own crawler), crowd-sourced sites, Yahoo! "BOSS", "embed.ly", "WolframAlpha", "EntireWeb" & "Bing".

      Also, the reason people (like myself) promote DuckDuckGo is because they're getting better success using it.

      --
      'If Christ had tweeted the sermon on the mount, it might have lasted until nightfall.' - John Perry Barlow
    42. Re:Pshaw by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      I intentionally avoided naming it in this post, because anyone who endorses a search engine other than Google on Slashdot gets accused of being a shill, but the other reply correctly pointed out the one that I use.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    43. Re:Pshaw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      His post is now the 7th Google result for "CD 22kHz limit" (no quotes).

    44. Re:Pshaw by MattCutts · · Score: 1

      Google does have this in Google News, e.g. see http://news.google.com/news/settings?pz=1&cf=all&ned=us&hl=en if you're logged into a Google Account, but web search doesn't have a way to do this right now.

    45. Re:Pshaw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why not share the love and tell us which competitor you switched to - bing, duckduckgo, givemebackmygoogle...?

    46. Re:Pshaw by badkarmadayaccount · · Score: 1

      Something similar to refcontrol but for query string/POST parameters would be nice.

      --
      I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
    47. Re:Pshaw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Add to this that Google likely tries to do the best they can to stop SEO poisoning/spam... so if their tools can't do it, they're unlikely to detect that they/ve failed either.

    48. Re:Pshaw by gabec · · Score: 1

      ExpertsExchange has an extremely misleading UI, starting with a question, followed by graphics that imply it's hiding the answer and you must register to see it... but all the text google thinks is there, is really there... you just have to scroll down to the bottom of the page.

      (You may know this and block them simply because they're being intentionally misleading... OTOH, you may not. I actively railed against them for years before noticing.)

  2. We rock!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    According to our own tests we are 100% awesome. We have tested you and you are not :( --Elgoog

    1. Re:We rock!! by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 1

      According to our own tests we are 100% awesome.

      Oh Come on Google, with all your money you couldn't eve pay a disinterested third party to... oh... nevermind.

    2. Re:We rock!! by tacktick · · Score: 2

      Yep Google's search results are totally fine and relevant, fresh, yadda yadda. In fact they are even better than they were years ago!

      Oh Btw,
      ".. we’re evaluating multiple changes that should help drive spam levels even lower, including one change that primarily affects sites that copy others’ content and sites with low levels of original content."

      Like Jon Stewart says "Whabba wha?"

    3. Re:We rock!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What aré these metrics? Their incomes???

    4. Re:We rock!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hah! I'm 110 % more awesome than you! - Bing

  3. To big to fail by said213 · · Score: 1, Funny

    Trust google. Trust everything about them.
    "Don't be evil" = "Eh. That's good enough."

    --
    help me fix this "Terrible" karma, please!
    1. Re:To big to fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Alright, let's compare:
      • Google: other search engines are now approaching Google in search result quality. There may now be some competition again in the search engine business instead of the entirely one-sidedness we saw for basically 5 years.
      • Banks: Received trillions of dollars after negligently screwing over everyone... including themselves. We decided they were too big to fail.

      Are you really comparing these two?

    2. Re:To big to fail by said213 · · Score: 0

      Actually, I'm failing to see the abstract which you're asserting here, so; why not compare the two?

      But, more to the point of the title, Google is too big to fail. If they're feeding you spammy search results, odds are you will move on to page 2 rather than switching to an alternate search engine. It is because of this that they can claim that their metrics match their objectives and defy public opinion. The public, having received an answer, continues to utilize the service. That makes them too big to fail.

      --
      help me fix this "Terrible" karma, please!
    3. Re:To big to fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Too big to fail refers to organizations that, if they collapsed, would cause severe economic harm rather than simply being replaced by competitors. It implies that such entities, even if private, require protection by the government. Are you suggesting that the government is protecting Google's interest in the same way that the banks were given trillions of dollars?

      Or, are you using the words "to [sic] big to fail" in an entirely unconventional and confusing way?

    4. Re:To big to fail by said213 · · Score: 0

      In plain english, "Too big to fail," is a fairly simple statement. Google is simply too big of a company for any complaint to bear genuine relevance... And just like any other monolithic corporation, they have problems. And; they'll fix them, when they can... when they have to. It's a major shift in going from "Don't be evil" to "Move along, nothing to see here" which demonstrates that they, too, know that they are too big to fail... And, not in a bailout sense. It's far more potentially insidious; They're too big to fail and there's virtually nothing that anyone can do about it.

      When a company becomes too big to fail, they begin making statements and taking stances such as those which we are referring to here. "Too big to fail" isn't a banking or industry term any more than "Mission Accomplished" is a declaration of victory.

      --
      help me fix this "Terrible" karma, please!
    5. Re:To big to fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In plain english,[sic] "Too big to fail," is a fairly simple statement. Google is simply too big of a company for any complaint to bear genuine relevance...

      "Too big to fail" could be a simple statement by some metrics. I propose a metric which enumerates obvious meanings and ranks them by popular use in recent time. I will leave the determination of recent time and ranking algorithms for the reader. First, let us enumerate the meanings. One could be that the entity is too big to be able to fail; it is impossible for the entity to fail. Another could be that the entity's failure would be catastrophic in some manner and it should not be allowed to fail; it is possible to fail but we must prevent it. Which of these two meanings has been used more often in our society in recent times? Again, I will not take the time to determine ranking or time-frame, but will put forth that I feel it is obviously the other meaning, that we should not allow said entity to fail. This subjective opinion comes from reporting about entities we have saved from failing for the reason that they are "too big to fail" and no use of the meaning that an entity has no possibility of failure in my exposure to our society's communications. I would propose, with no way to measure, that many other readers on this site at this time have had similar exposure to society's communications and may also come to the same meaning. Now, what you can do, to avoid ambiguity, especially if intending a meaning other than the one used most often most recently by our society, is to clarify what you mean. You have done that, as I quote above. Hence, the original statement "too big to fail" is not quite as simple in plain English, as you assert.

    6. Re:To big to fail by said213 · · Score: 0

      It's okay, AC. I'm wearing my "WWMD" bracelet today (What Would Miley Say?) so that I, too, can keep up with the nonsense catch phrases of the moment.
      It's fracking english.

      "Too big to fail" isn't a banking or industry term.
      "Mission Accomplished" isn't a declaration of victory.
      "Fair and Balanced" isn't a viable news source.
      I get it.

      In hindsight, I do see your point and would like to apologize for using the phrase "too big to fail" to describe a company which is too big to fail.

      --
      help me fix this "Terrible" karma, please!
    7. Re:To big to fail by unitron · · Score: 1

      Actually we didn't decide that those banks were too big to fail. If they were, they wouldn't have needed help.

      The phrase is actually "to big to be allowed to fail".

      If enough people decide they like other search engines better than they like Google, Google will fail no matter how big they are (unless they've already sufficiently diversified into other income-producing endeavors that don't depend on the demand for their search services).

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

  4. By their metric, there is no problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A typical problem companies have is measuring the quality of their products: By their metric, it's great! But per the user experience it's not. The users must be wrong.

    The metric doesn't always capture the things that the users care about. Also, expectations can change. Better than five years ago may not be good enough

    Based on my experience, Google's search quality is insufficient to make it useful for most purposes. It's plan B now. No search engine is much better, but plan A is to use better resources: Wikipedia, knowledge written or compiled by an expert, etc.

    1. Re:By their metric, there is no problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indeed. "No problem."

      Sort of like not too long ago, reCAPTCHA "wasn't cracked"... which, incidentally, they announced shortly before they added a filter that randomly replaces black pixels with white ones in a vertical stripe somewhere in the image. See? (It does, however, make it incredibly easy to tell which word is the "challenge" word and which one isn't.)

    2. Re:By their metric, there is no problem by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      The whole 'user experience says one thing but we say another' is a pretty good way to kill your business. I mean it worked for AMC...very well infact.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    3. Re:By their metric, there is no problem by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      The metric doesn't always capture the things that the users care about.

      Google’s search quality is better than it has ever been in terms of relevance, freshness and comprehensiveness.

      I hate how searches with a word that has recently been in the news get flooded with crap from the newscycle. I wish I knew a way to tell google's filters that stale results are fine and/or better than fresh ones.

      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    4. Re:By their metric, there is no problem by adolf · · Score: 1

      I hate how searches with a word that has recently been in the news get flooded with crap from the newscycle. I wish I knew a way to tell google's filters that stale results are fine and/or better than fresh ones.

      There is, sort of:

      Compare this current news-ish search to this other search with the same terms. The former is very much crapfested with redundant articles from today's news, while the latter is not.

      It only works for recent news, of course. And I agree: A method to avoid searching news sources and frequently-updated blogs would be very welcome. I mean, FFS: If I wanted to search news articles, I'd be at news.google.com, wouldn't I?

    5. Re:By their metric, there is no problem by CAIMLAS · · Score: 1

      From my observation, there are two kinds of searches:

      * Stupid Searches
      * Professional Searches

      The former provides some of the best material since the inception of the web. This category of searches is, by far, the largest category: things like "weather 90210", "what is pi", "how to boil eggs", "am i pregnant" and so on: the results on these are, in all likelihood, close to scientifically perfect.

      More complex searches, however, are failing at rates which have not been seen since before AtlaVista. I can't search for a thing

      Like you say: I more often just go to wikipedia now, for anything remotely technical, and use the included external links for more information. It's more consistently not-shitty. With google, in my field, I'm more likely to find an 9-year-old mailing list post than I am anything modern or useful.

      For the vast majority of searches for the vast majority of people (myself included) the results are good. For anything that matters, it's become increasingly frustrating: I can't imaging getting to where I am now, professionally, without the google of earlier times. It helped me figure out hwo to "ask" intelligent "questions" and to be succinct in what I was looking for. Today? Good luck finding anything much at all, never mind useful.

      It's great for porn image searching, though.

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
  5. The Freshness Metric by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Inherited from Mentos, The Freshmaker

  6. hmm by edxwelch · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "spam in most other languages is even lower than in English."

    this is definately not true for Spanish. There has always been a higher level of spam results for Spanish

    1. Re:hmm by franciscohs · · Score: 0

      I second that, I was just going to post that when I saw your post.

    2. Re:hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      lol...no comment.

    3. Re:hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? I find less spam on Spanish searches. Are you sure you understand what they are talking about? I guess part of it depends on what you are searching for...

  7. Except that it isn't... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Bottom line is that their 'metrics' are faulty. Who gives a damn about freshness when the content is irrelevant. Bottom line is that in recent memory its actually more difficult to find good results using google.

    PS. No one cares about forum postings that barely scratch the surface of a subject, contain incomprehensible grammar, or just contain questions about your topic rather than relevant information. But if google doesn't even want to recognize that it is doing things that customers don't like they will eventually go the way of the dodo bird as well.

    1. Re:Except that it isn't... by sexconker · · Score: 1
  8. When you're losing, just change how you keep score by Zeek40 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    the evaluation metrics we've refined over the past decade

    In other words, as long as they keep changing the evaluation criteria, they always pass them!

    I've seen more parked domains in google results than I have actually content recenty.

  9. "less than half" answers the wrong question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    If I do a search for something "easy" to find, I don't care that much whether there are 30% spam results or 15% spam results. What I care about is how often I do a search for some obscure information that's surely out there but 95% or more of the results are spam and I have a lot of trouble finding what I'm looking for.

    In my purely anecdotal experience, that's definitely up in the past couple of years, but it's something that I suspect is rather difficult for Google to quantify.

  10. Sorry Google by stox · · Score: 3, Informative

    But it is becoming increasingly difficult to find the information I really want/need in my searchs.Maybe it is time to change your metrics.

    --
    "To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
    1. Re:Sorry Google by nicholas22 · · Score: 1

      Have you TRIED any other search engine? These guys have been working hard to claw a 0.1% from Google. And along the way they have actually managed to produce some pretty nifty search algorithms. I have stopped using Google for 2 years now and have seldom been let down by my new search engine.

    2. Re:Sorry Google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would you mind giving an example or 5?

    3. Re:Sorry Google by bonch · · Score: 5, Insightful

      My favorite part is how searching for something that happens to appear in a Stackoverflow question returns dozens of sites that copy and paste the Stackoverflow content surrounded by ads.

    4. Re:Sorry Google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which ones?

      (Genuinely curious; post anonymous if you must.)

    5. Re:Sorry Google by nashv · · Score: 1

      That is simply because search algorithm and related technology progresses slower than technologies allowing morons to put crap onto a machine and connect it to the internet.

      --
      Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.
    6. Re:Sorry Google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed... I think they are defining "spam" as useless ad pages. However, most people go for the original definition: crap that drowns out the useful stuff. Useless ad pages represent a small fraction of this anymore, and I believe they did decrease. These days, however, search results are loaded with even more useless crap. If you search for an uncommon science topic, you get 90+% pay walled journal articles. Search for a programming topic and most of the pages are just forum aggregators. This is pretty common for most searches... Just because the results are relevant doesn't mean they are at all useful.

    7. Re:Sorry Google by Dishevel · · Score: 1

      The sig would be more accurate if it said...
      If Google can scan unprotected WiFi networks, then I can listen to you scream at the top of your lungs to your neighbors.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    8. Re:Sorry Google by gilbert644 · · Score: 1

      The obvious solution is to have the ratio of ads vs content affect the sites ranking, but when you are in the business of selling ads that's not very desirable.

    9. Re:Sorry Google by RobDude · · Score: 1

      I can't speak for the OP; but when Bing first came out I found a website that would perform your search on Yahoo, Google and Bing; displaying the results in an identical format on either the left, center, or right of your screen.

      The catch was; you didn't know which was which until after you clicked indicating which had the best results.

      I used it for a good three weeks. Prior to that, I was a Google fanboy. After that, I realized Google's search results weren't any better for me. They were all remarkably close; Yahoo was my #1, followed by Bing, followed by Google.

    10. Re:Sorry Google by Ash+Vince · · Score: 1

      Have you TRIED any other search engine? These guys have been working hard to claw a 0.1% from Google. And along the way they have actually managed to produce some pretty nifty search algorithms. I have stopped using Google for 2 years now and have seldom been let down by my new search engine.

      Naming your new one would have been useful, especially if its so great. By not naming it I just assume you are a an anti-google troll. Sorry if that is wrong but we all know there is an anti google campaign paid for by AT&T and MS.

      http://www.publicknowledge.org/node/2741
      http://techrights.org/2009/06/15/microsofts-whisper-campaign-goog/
      http://www.businessinsider.com/what-an-anti-google-whisper-campaign-looks-like-2009-6

      --
      I dont read /. to RTFA, I read /. to offend people in ignorance.
    11. Re:Sorry Google by hajus · · Score: 1

      There is duckduckgo.com. I don't know how good it is cause I hardly use it.

    12. Re:Sorry Google by dAzED1 · · Score: 1

      wish you could link the website...

    13. Re:Sorry Google by __aatirs3925 · · Score: 1

      lycos, angelfire, hotbot, dogpile, and askjeeves... oh wait...

    14. Re:Sorry Google by __aatirs3925 · · Score: 1

      Google tries to find the original source and penalizes any copycats. Stackoverflow screwed up by not addressing that their information can't be used outside their website unless it's within a specified quoting guideline.

    15. Re:Sorry Google by RobDude · · Score: 1
    16. Re:Sorry Google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I blame it on fuzzy search. There is simply no way to tell Google to do a literal search anymore.

      It also seems that they have reduced the total number of results per search. I'm getting more "zero results" than a year ago.

      And spam - there is more spam than before. Try searching for reviews of some less popular movie. All you get is adfarms and roboblogs with fake rapidshare links.

    17. Re:Sorry Google by nametaken · · Score: 3, Informative

      Consider yourself lucky if Experts Exchange isn't showing up like a plague in your search results.

      That crap where they show the googlebot one thing and regular visitors something very different (and awful), makes me wish Stackoverflow, etc. will end up putting the final nail in their coffin. In a pinch I've used the google cache to get at the information, but what they're doing is a shitty google cheat and they should've gotten the ban hammer a long time ago.

    18. Re:Sorry Google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hear hear

    19. Re:Sorry Google by higuita · · Score: 1

      www.dogpile.com also do multi-search-engines lookups and combines them... i use it sometimes

      --
      Higuita
    20. Re:Sorry Google by swillden · · Score: 1

      My favorite part is how searching for something that happens to appear in a Stackoverflow question returns dozens of sites that copy and paste the Stackoverflow content surrounded by ads.

      The article mentions that Google recognizes this problem and is deploying some algorithm changes to reduce it.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    21. Re:Sorry Google by theCoder · · Score: 1

      I just tried a search on this and surprisingly (to me at least) the column I selected as better was actually Bing. Then I decided to double check, and I pasted the exact same query into Google, and I got different results. But their weird thing is that the first three results that Google gave me weren't in this comparison thing and were also completely irrelevant to what I was searching for, so the Blind Search for Google was better than Google itself! Though in Google's defense, they actually were good hits to what I had put in the search terms, just not what I was looking for.

      So I'd say take that site with a grain of salt. The main page does say the author of the site works for Microsoft, but I suspect that the difference is more of a case of Google trying to personalize the search results that it cannot do with a general site than any malfeasance on the part of Blind Search.

      --
      "Save the whales, feed the hungry, free the mallocs" -- author unknown
    22. Re:Sorry Google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you report that to google?

      It's not all automated - they do nerf results for pages that are showing the users different content to the bots, but that's done manually and someone needs to actually report the offending pages to them in the first place.

  11. Google is history... by FrankSchwab · · Score: 5, Insightful

    " according to the evaluation metrics that we’ve refined over more than a decade, Google’s search quality is better than it has ever been in terms of relevance, freshness and comprehensiveness. "

    And thus begins the downfall of Google. Once you start drinking your own lemonade and stop listening to the people who use your product, you're on a greased downhill slope.

    --
    And the worms ate into his brain.
    1. Re:Google is history... by Dishevel · · Score: 1

      Or maybe the put this out so that the masses say "Um yeah. I remember now he is right." and go on using Google and at the same time they may actually be looking how to improve the results.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    2. Re:Google is history... by brunes69 · · Score: 2

      Google's product is not searching, it is advertising. The people who "use their product" are advertisers, not searchers.

    3. Re:Google is history... by Facegarden · · Score: 5, Funny

      " according to the evaluation metrics that we’ve refined over more than a decade, Google’s search quality is better than it has ever been in terms of relevance, freshness and comprehensiveness. "

      And thus begins the downfall of Google. Once you start drinking your own lemonade and stop listening to the people who use your product, you're on a greased downhill slope.

      That's not lemonade.

      --
      Worldwide Military budgets: $2100 billion. Worldwide Space Exploration budgets: $38 billion. Really, world? Really?
    4. Re:Google is history... by noidentity · · Score: 1

      B to A: Hey A, you're doing things you don't want to be doing. Mentioning this in case you hadn't notic.

      A: I don't see evidence that I am, therefore I am not. You must be imagining it.

    5. Re:Google is history... by Missing.Matter · · Score: 1

      The phrase is "drinking the kool-aid".

    6. Re:Google is history... by FrankSchwab · · Score: 1

      Perhaps, but the lemon tree in my backyard is just about to break from the weight of fruit on it.

      Drinking Lemonade is much closer to my heart at the moment than drinking kool-aid.

      --
      And the worms ate into his brain.
    7. Re:Google is history... by DragonWriter · · Score: 2

      And thus begins the downfall of Google. Once you start drinking your own lemonade and stop listening to the people who use your product, you're on a greased downhill slope.

      Discounting claims in the press is not the same as stopping listening to the people who use your product. I've seen no evidence presented that google has stopped listening to the people who use their product. AFAICT, your argument proceeds from an unjustified assumption.

    8. Re:Google is history... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get on my horse.

    9. Re:Google is history... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would concur that Google doesn't listen. Many times I have supplied information regarding the illegitimacy of my search results, and bugs in their algorithm and even logic. Not one reply. I gave up a few years back, and just started doing my own crawling.
       
      What would be nice is to have some independent crawlers that could aggregate their findings and then allow a third party API to plug into this, so others can use the data with their own specially formulated algorithms.

    10. Re:Google is history... by rta · · Score: 1

      Have you ever tried to contact google about anything ever? It's near impossible whether as a user or a webmaster. You can't even send them an email or report a bug. If you buy advertising from them the experience is a little better, but not all that much (based on the experience a previous company had with them. Our monthly spend w/ them was in the mid four figures iirc). That's not huge, but it meant that we'd occasionally get our emails acknowledge even if they never answered why our site would occasionally drop entirely from their index for certain terms and then return to the first results page a few weeks later when there was absolutely no change to the page or our server set-up or anything else and there was no indication of anything different on the Webmaster Tools pages). On two occasions we dropped out of the results entirely for our own site name even though people linking to us were still there. A few weeks later we were back. No explanation or indication of what, if anything had happened.

      Basically google does whatever it does and they don't want to hear from you because they know better. Sometimes it does it well (e.g. spam filtering), sometimes it doesn't (e.g. indexing any type of DHTML, allowing for flexibility in search results, dealing with non-RESTful urls etc). Your choice of interaction with google is primarily to use what they offer (which is sometimes excellent) or not to. Same as with other large companies like Facebook and even Comcast, AT&T, T-mobile etc.

      The ones that you give money to seem to be a bit more responsive in that they at least will give you someone to talk to but that's about the only difference.

    11. Re:Google is history... by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 1

      Mmm, tastes just like raisins

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    12. Re:Google is history... by MattCutts · · Score: 1

      What were some concrete searches that didn't work for you?

    13. Re:Google is history... by r7 · · Score: 1

      according to the evaluation metrics

      Evaluation metrics, yea, that's the ticket. The reason Google sucks of late is partly because spam filtering is difficult but in this case it is especially difficult as they actually profit off of much of what we see as search spam. That is to say that our metrics (results) are different from theirs (profit and results). Of course they'll tell you that Adwords customers are shown no preference in search listing, but what else are they going to say...

      This is no different than what happened at DEC's Alta Vista, whose search results used to be better than Google's are now. That was before the bean counters^H^H^H^H stock holders made a stink about the lack of "value appreciation". Sucks to have owners whose short term interests conflict with your (long term) business model.

    14. Re:Google is history... by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      Have you ever tried to contact google about anything ever? It's near impossible whether as a user or a webmaster. You can't even send them an email or report a bug.

      Yeah, its pretty hard to click the "Give us feedback" link, choose a category of issue, and then provide your feedback.

      And even harder to use the publicly accessible bugtrackers for many of their non-search properties.

  12. Dear Google by Charliemopps · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Perception is reality.

    Anyway, I think the argument is: The spammers are gaming your Metrics. It's not that there's 50% less spam in your search results, it's that you're detecting 50% less spam in the first place.

    1. Re:Dear Google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bingo.

      Although Googles top hits are usually pretty good, if your target is the least bit obscure, you have to proceed to the second page. And there all hell breaks lose.

  13. google is... by Biggseye · · Score: 1

    Google does not have spam, Google is spam.

  14. Believing their own press by MMORG · · Score: 2

    See, this is where Google goes off the rails and starts to believe its own press. Cutts said, in effect, "Our search engine tells us that our search engine is doing just fine." Yeah, well, ultimately Google's search engine isn't the center of the universe and the ultimate authority on everything. The users are. If the users say that the quality of search results are going down, then they're going down. Period. Google better figure out how to change their evaluation metrics to reflect what users are seeing rather than attempt to change user's opinions to match what their evaluation metrics say.

    1. Re:Believing their own press by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      See, this is where Google goes off the rails and starts to believe its own press. Cutts said, in effect, "Our search engine tells us that our search engine is doing just fine."

      No, actually, he didn't. "Metrics" don't have to be automatically generated. If their search engine could identified spammy results internally, it wouldn't keep metrics of how many spammy results it produced, it just wouldn't show any. Clearly, the metrics are external to the search engine unless they've deliberately engineered the search engine to identify but still display spammy results, which makes no sense from any perspective.

      Further, Cutts didn't say they are doing just fine. He said that their internal measurements show the trend in spammy results being downward, contrary to the criticism that it has increased, but that they see and accept demand from their user community for even better results, and that they "we can and should do better", and also lists several improvements they are working on so that they will do better in the future than they do today (it also lists improvements that have been made recently.)

      Google better figure out how to change their evaluation metrics to reflect what users are seeing rather than attempt to change user's opinions to match what their evaluation metrics say.

      I suspect that Google has correctly identified the source of the perception: quality expectations increasing faster than actual quality, rather than decreasing quality. Whether or not that's true, rather than modifying the metrics so that they match what critics claim to be the trend, they should do exactly what they claim that they have been doing and continue to work to reduce actual spam results as much as they can, whether or not their metrics show the trend as being in the right direction or the wrong direction.

  15. I call no-way by synthesizerpatel · · Score: 5, Informative

    Every time I search for something these days I get some ridiculous set of non-results due to the fuzzy matching. I search for "TIPC layer3" google nicely finds me results about TCP Layer3 because google thinks I must have typo'd something. This happens constantly with one or two letter off searches where the search results I get are adjusted because the alternative ranks higher.

    Google's search is not getting better, it's getting more and more 'Clippy' every year.

    1. Re:I call no-way by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And I'm out of moderator points. Between the "oh, you're looking for something obscure... here's something that's spelled similarly" mentalality, and constantly returning pages from 2003 about technical subjects, it's pretty hard to find anything on Google that I care about. Except for using them to find large corporate sites.

      Add the fact that spam copies are constantly higher than the original, and I see no solution.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    2. Re:I call no-way by jeek · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yeah, I had the same issue searching for scrotwm, a window manager I was checking the man page for.

      --
      If you want to be seen, stand up. If you want to be heard, speak up. If you want to be respected, sit down and shut up.
    3. Re:I call no-way by Damek · · Score: 1

      I search for "TIPC layer3" and I get a bunch of links about tips for things like layer 3 switches, layer 3 audio, etc. No TCP correction, but a tips one. What were you actually looking for?

    4. Re:I call no-way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, I had the same issue searching for scrotwm, a window manager I was checking the man pages for.

      FTFY

    5. Re:I call no-way by calmofthestorm · · Score: 1

      There is a classic story told to students of statistics about drunk man who is looking for his car keys under the street lights. When a passer by asks him if he dropped his keys by the street lights, the drunk answers ‘no, but the light is better here’.

      --
      93rd rule of Slashdot: No matter how obvious my sarcasm is, my comment will be taken seriously by someone.
    6. Re:I call no-way by chad_r · · Score: 1

      Sometimes it's necessary to add the plus sign to force an exact match. "+TIPC layer3" may give you better results.

    7. Re:I call no-way by synthesizerpatel · · Score: 1

      If TIPC can be routed. I figured out my answer, it's more of a general example of the dumbification of search..

      I know you can do +TIPC to force it not to look for TIPS or TCP.. It's more of a general criticism that google more and more is catering to sheeple without making it easy to not be a sheeple.

    8. Re:I call no-way by synthesizerpatel · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You bring up other great points.. Spam copies are maddening.

      There needs to be a 'never show me results from this domain' button to blacklist this garbage and keep people from gaming the system.

    9. Re:I call no-way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you know, there's date filtering out to the left.

    10. Re:I call no-way by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

      Here's a data point.

      Try the simple word "Advanced".
      Purpose is to find the engine's Advanced Search, without cheating from hardlocked results.

      Advance Auto Parts is #1 on both Google and Yahoo, proudly claimed as an Ad/Sponsored. Then they get a bonus listing about #2 as well. Is it "fresh" or "spam" if it's a paid result?

      But here's TehAwesum:
      AltaVista Advanced Search is #6 and Yahoo Advanced Search is #10 on Google.
      (Google advanced search is #9 on Yahoo.)

      Your Move, Matt Cutts!

      --
      My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
    11. Re:I call no-way by synthesizerpatel · · Score: 1

      Yep. I know. I wrote some javascript that automatically puts a plus sign in front of every word in non-quoted searches I do.

      Too bad they don't have a real API.

    12. Re:I call no-way by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      I search for "TIPC Layer 3" and get your post as result 1, something about tips on a 3 layer cake second, and the wikipedia entry for TIPC third.

      I search for "scrotwm" and the home page is result 1 and the man page result 2.

      If I search for "TPC Layer 3" I get stuff about "closed loop transmit power control" with a "Did you mean: TCP Layer 3" at the top acting as a link to that search. So no changes in the actual search done, but a hint that I might have spelled something wrong.

      We are talking about entering stuff in http://www.google.com/ right?

      I'm pretty sure I have seen it automatically make the spelling correction in the past (with a notice that it did so), but the original search was returning 0 results...

    13. Re:I call no-way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mod parent up...to +10 if possible, I would love to have some google option I could turn on in a cookie to say ALWAYS only search for my exact term and not include anything "similar" or tangentially related...I know you can format queries for that but you end up with something that almost looks like a regex just trying to do a simple search, and it's a royal pain.

    14. Re:I call no-way by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 1

      Seems to me that you need to refine your queries. I think people have come to expect Google to find relevant stuff with an almost magical and eerie accuracy. Now that Spammers have caught on, it's time to understand how Google can help you refine queries. Use +, -, ", site:, intitle:, etc.

      The other thing is that while Google does have some issues with spam (specifically around rebroadcast content), I'm not sure the other search engines are better. Bing has its own set of issues, Yahoo is Bing, and none of the new search engines are useful. The only problem I'm considering switching over is that Google Maps is regularly having issues with proper placement and finding the right route. Again, I've gotten used to an almost magical quality to direction searches and I'm trusting Google maps more than I trusted any other map software before. But there is definitely the feel that its usefulness has taken a step back.

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
    15. Re:I call no-way by ian_from_brisbane · · Score: 1

      I completely agree with you and GP; both the 'clippy' remark and the 'regex' remark are spot on.

    16. Re:I call no-way by Sentrion · · Score: 1

      I was really irritated by the "similar" word results, but I found that if your put your querry in quotes you actually get the exact spelling on the search returns.

      As for spam sites, the more seemingly unrelated the search terms the more likely you are going to be lead to spam, especially as you add terms to be included within the search.

    17. Re:I call no-way by JAlexoi · · Score: 1

      I was trying to find the screenshot for the same scrotwm using Image Search, imagine my surprise!

    18. Re:I call no-way by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      Actually, I didn't. I just tried it. Here's what it found for (random letters) in the past month: http://www.11news.us/01/asiasoft-passport.html On the first page. Yes, it's about an upcoming event in June 2010.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    19. Re:I call no-way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Every time I search for something these days I get some ridiculous set of non-results due to the fuzzy matching. I search for "TIPC layer3" google nicely finds me results about TCP Layer3 because google thinks I must have typo'd something. This happens constantly with one or two letter off searches where the search results I get are adjusted because the alternative ranks higher.

      Google's search is not getting better, it's getting more and more 'Clippy' every year.

      You should try searching for "TIPC layer3" now. I wonder if you would fnd the result relevant.

    20. Re:I call no-way by Alrescha · · Score: 2

      "Every time I search for something these days I get some ridiculous set of non-results due to the fuzzy matching."

      This. The one unforgivable sin that Google has been guilty of since day one was taking something given in quotes and screwing with it. Unforgivable.

      A.

      --
      ...bringing you cynical quips since 1998
    21. Re:I call no-way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Did you try including the word "man" in the search? Also try using image search. That will make it easier to filter through the results you don't want.

    22. Re:I call no-way by garyebickford · · Score: 1

      Agreed. I'm regularly surprised by how specifically my search results in just what I'm looking for - along with a bunch of cruft, but something has to fill the page. Maybe it's my amazing talent for search terms, or maybe Google has trained me like a Pavlovian dog. :)

      I'm probably going OT here, but Google Maps consistently gives me better routing than either my smartphone or my Garmin GPS. It also gives me the top three alternatives, and allows me to drag points around to try other routes. And the user interface is better than any GPS I've used. Garmin's UI is particularly sucky, especially since its major use is in a car, where minimizing the finger touches would seem to be a primary objective. Also Garmin wants me to pay an exorbitant amount to update the maps, which weren't good to start with.

      --
      It's easier to be a result of the past, but more fun to be a cause of the future! http://www.spacefinancegroup.com/
    23. Re:I call no-way by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      Every time I search for something these days I get some ridiculous set of non-results due to the fuzzy matching. I search for "TIPC layer3" google nicely finds me results about TCP Layer3 because google thinks I must have typo'd something.

      Aside from your post, most of the results I get have "tips" highlighted; if I use "+tipc layer3" instead of "tipc layer3" those are excluded. (And its not one of the "Did you mean?" searches that I am used to, it seems to be an odd corner case of a search with so few real results that fuzzy matching results almost completely drown them out. OTOH, I would expect that most of the time, a search like that would actually be a typo, so its not necessarily a misfeature, though when you are doing such a search it is a problem; it might be useful for Google to have a strictness toggle control of some sort.)

    24. Re:I call no-way by asvravi · · Score: 1

      You sabotaged your own search... now searching for "TIPC layer 3" returns this slashdot article as the first link!

    25. Re:I call no-way by synthesizerpatel · · Score: 1

      Scorched earth search results!

    26. Re:I call no-way by eugene+ts+wong · · Score: 1

      I've always wondered about the results. I couldn't figure out why Google would show certain results that weren't on topic, and that didn't contain the word at all. I could forgive Google for showing me a page that was related but didn't have the exact word, but some of the results are just ridiculous.

      Thanks for your explanation.

    27. Re:I call no-way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if your put your querry in quotes you actually get the exact spelling on the search returns

      (You don't want that... scnr) It doesn't work. Quotes used to work, plus signs used to work, but not any more. It always does fuzzy.

    28. Re:I call no-way by k.a.f. · · Score: 1

      There needs to be a 'never show me results from this domain' button to blacklist this garbage and keep people from gaming the system.

      You mean there is absolutely no way to have a personal domain blacklist for searches? Wow, that is near-unbelievable. I would have thought that was the very first thing to be implemented on a per-user basis. I mean, what's the point on having a personalized identity for Google? (For me, I mean. I'm aware that they make money from generating targeted ads for me. But why should I play that game when there's nothing in it for me?)

    29. Re:I call no-way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They'll get around to it. Took 'em a while to figure out that "gimp" was a graphics app and stop returning hardcore fetish sites. Pretty sure they hard-coded that one.

    30. Re:I call no-way by EETech1 · · Score: 1

      You could always click on Advanced Search. There is a search for the exact phrase,search for all the words, none of the words, and other useful fields on the page. They mostly generate complex queries that could be entered in the simple search field, but it seems to do a better job (IMHO) with the exact phrase field in the advanced search page than putting the same terms in quotes on the simple search page.

      YMMV (as Google uses custom search results for everyone!

      Cheers :D

    31. Re:I call no-way by MattCutts · · Score: 1

      What do you want when you do the search [advanced]? There's a conference called AdvancED that we show at #1. I see our advanced search help pages at #2, Advanced search from AltaVista at #3, SMX Advanced (a conference I've spoken at before) at #4, and Advanced Auto Parts at #5. That's a pretty darn good set of search results for an ambiguous query like [advanced].

    32. Re:I call no-way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hate it, too. Put quotes around each term.

    33. Re:I call no-way by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

      What do you want when you do the search [advanced]?
      There's a conference called AdvancED that we show at #1.
      I see our advanced search help pages at #2,
      Advanced search from AltaVista at #3,
      SMX Advanced (a conference I've spoken at before) at #4,
      and Advanced Auto Parts at #5.

      That's a pretty darn good set of search results for an ambiguous query like [advanced].

      Hi Matt.

      First of all let me commend you for being gracious enough to reply to my post.

      My memory is a little haze, but there seem to be more small Advanced Search links on the top right of pages, both the home page and on the first results page. That feels right, it's a "special" answer to the question. However by importantance it needs to be highly accessible, because all of my searches are "include all of these words" at minimum, never again the "OR" syntax, so Advanced Search is the fastest way to get there.

      Now onto the article/topic of results themselves:

      The first situation is we're not even getting the same results! I took the liberty of reformatting your post above for aesthetic purposes.

      I am receiving:

      0: Ad placement ; Advance Auto Parts. (Ad Placements are "above" regular results.)
      1: advanc-ed.org ; An interesting result, but still part of my growing frustation, to be seen below. Remember the dash - that's key.
      2: shop.advanceautoparts.com ; I like your ad for them. That's what ads are. However this result feels wrong. "There is no d in advanceautoparts.com". To my understanding this is a crisp example of feeding me something I didn't ask for. According to Firefox Edit/Find there is no such word as "Advanced" anywhere on the visible page.
      3. Advancedcell.com ; Advanced Cell Technology - interesting result.
      4. Google Search Help - very interesting. However, let's begin to notice the as yet user-unstated question of whether I want "things called advanced____ or Advanced versions of ______". I tend to go for more adjectives. But should your search help be one of those "always on small links" at the top right? I'd think this would go well right below Advanced Search in the top right.
      5. Advanced Composition for Native Speakers ... another fair and interesting result.
      6. AltaVista Advanced Search. Cute. AltaVista?! Really?!
      7. Yahoo Advanced Search ; This one I expected and feels fair.
      8. Advanced Twitter Search ; Great result. The best results change lives - "I didn't know Twitter had an advanced search, much less where to find it." Except - It's #8.
      9. Advanced.com ; Advanced Interconnections. They paid for the domain name, they deserve to be here. Interestingly missing is Advanced.org. From what little I know of PageRank, if no one likes Advanced.Org, maybe they didn't deserve to be top 10.
      10. Advanced Bash Scripting Guide ; This feels like a classic result, and I'd want more like that.

      Thought - what is your opinion of Wikipedia's famous Disambiguation pages? That changes a list from a potluck fight for results into category. I'd seriously recommend a setting on the Advanced Search page (isn't that what it is for?) of Result Category. If I'm cruising for info on a TV show, I don't want pages of Fringe theories.

      P.s. Way at the bottom is what looks very useful - Advanced Search, which seems to pull in a page full of advanced searches, which feels useful. But again what if that were somewhere more visible at the top? I'd rank it higher than "Advanced Ninja" in that same bloc of after-results.

      Once again, thank you for your time.

      --
      My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  16. What is considered spam anyway? by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

    What is considered spam anyway?

    I mean, I'm sure I'd like to have an "expert" perform my "sexchange" if I want one, but I was just looking for help solving a programming bug.

    I also appreciate that some sites try to help me with my searching, but I'd rather have them provide answers instead of giving yet more search results.

    --
    Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    1. Re:What is considered spam anyway? by mbone · · Score: 3, Informative

      In this context, spam means web sites that don't actually contain any real content, just junk text, lists of keywords, etc., together with paid links or banner ads and the like. They won't answer any question you may have, unless you are asking to see more spam. There is more and more of this crap, and it dominates some web search queries.

    2. Re:What is considered spam anyway? by ottothecow · · Score: 1
      expertsexchange results are actually pretty good (or well they used to be...have not used them in a while).

      The key is realizing that if you scroll to the very bottom of the page...all of the answers they are asking you to sign up and pay for are already there. Maybe they have changed it but you used to be able to get the full text of the answers by just scrolling down or using google cache (or a user agent switcher to pretend you are google)

      --
      Bottles.
    3. Re:What is considered spam anyway? by Facegarden · · Score: 1

      What is considered spam anyway?

      I mean, I'm sure I'd like to have an "expert" perform my "sexchange" if I want one, but I was just looking for help solving a programming bug.

      I also appreciate that some sites try to help me with my searching, but I'd rather have them provide answers instead of giving yet more search results.

      Yeah, when you could customize searches, I always removed "experts exchange" results from my searches, but I don't think google got the hint. They still come up all the f'ing time, and I don't think you can customize searches anymore. Never mattered anyway.
      -Taylor

      --
      Worldwide Military budgets: $2100 billion. Worldwide Space Exploration budgets: $38 billion. Really, world? Really?
    4. Re:What is considered spam anyway? by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      In this context, spam means web sites that don't actually contain any real content, just junk text, lists of keywords, etc., together with paid links or banner ads and the like. They won't answer any question you may have, unless you are asking to see more spam. There is more and more of this crap, and it dominates some web search queries.

      I think that according to google, these days, Spam is defined as advertising not profiting google itself :(

      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    5. Re:What is considered spam anyway? by awyeah · · Score: 1

      and I don't think you can customize searches anymore.

      You can... with Google custom search. Once you set up the basics through the wizard, go into the configuration page.

      I have mine set up so it searches the whole internet, but promotes certain sites (like stackoverflow, superuser, wikipedia, etc) to the top for more relevant results. It also excludes anything from experts-exchange.com.

      --
      Why, no, I haven't meta-moderated lately. Thanks for asking!
  17. Can Google afford to stop spam? by Animats · · Score: 5, Informative

    Google has a dilemma. If their search engine takes you directly to the place you want to go, they don't make any money. For a good analysis of this, see "Google Sucks All the Way to the Bank", by Jill Whalen She is, unfortunately, right. It's essential for Google's success that some of their own ads be more relevant than their search results. Part of their revenue comes from sending users on a side-trip to AdWords-heavy pages. We've measured this, using a browser plug-in which reports AdWords appearances to us. About 36% of domains with AdWords (counting domain names, not traffic) are what we consider "bottom feeders", junk sites with a commercial purpose but no identifiable business behind them.

    On the local search front, spam in Google Places is even worse than in their main search results. This, though, appears to be due to ineptitude, not malice. Google added a business search system to Google Maps a year or two ago; that's what Google Places really is. You've been able to go to a Google Maps page and search for businesses for some time now. Few people knew this.

    Then, in October 2010, Google merged the map search results into their main search results. "Places" results suddenly got top billing in Google. The "search engine optimization" (SEO) industry swung into action, and began spamming Google Places on a massive scale. (We have a paper on this, which has been mentioned by Techdirt, the New York Observer, etc. It's an amusing read.) Recommendation spamming, which had been going on for a while at a low level, grew substantially once recommendations started affecting Google search results.

    This, incidentally, is why Blekko won't work. If they get enough market share to matter, techniques will be developed to spam them into meaninglessness.

    Stopping web spam is technically quite possible. We do it by finding the business behind the web site, and doing some automated due diligence. We check business records, SEC filings, BBB ratings, and Dun and Bradstreet to verify business legitimacy. We down-rate most of the junk. We try to err in the down-rating direction, taking the position that it's the job of a company to demonstrate their legitimacy by using their real name and address on their web site, which has to match real-world business records. Our demo site demo site for this shows what search is like if you take a hard line on spam.

    Our approach requires more of a hard-ass attitude than Google's business model can perhaps afford. With Bleekko making Google look foolish, though, and Bing slowly improving, Google may have to actually do something that works, even if it cuts into revenue from the spam.

    1. Re:Can Google afford to stop spam? by masterwit · · Score: 1

      Blekko is more about indexing non-spam sites: the slashtag feature is set by users. A site becomes relevant to a slashtag by feedback and a bit of automation hybrid. That said there is still a lot of work to be done on Blekko on their current model and how it will scale efficiently and without Facebook.

      --
      We should start a new Slashdot and return control to the geeks. It actually wouldn't be that hard to get some users to
    2. Re:Can Google afford to stop spam? by snookums · · Score: 1

      Three backlinks to your domain from a PR 8 site. Nice going.

      That said, your site seems to work as promised. Getting any kind of decent product reviews out of Google is next to impossible these days, and sitetruth actually found some for me.

      --
      Be careful. People in masks cannot be trusted.
    3. Re:Can Google afford to stop spam? by kaiser423 · · Score: 1

      Very interesting and information post. Thank you.

      I have one counter to your point about their ads needing to be better than their search. I buy lots of stuff for our company, a lot of little things here or there, one-offs, etc. Everytime I'm looking for something new, I put some words into Google, click all the relevant search results on that page, and NEARLY EVERY SINGLE AD. They're selling something, I'm trying to buy, why wouldn't I click on them?

      This feeds into your point about a company demonstrating that their legitimate. For most consumer items, the ads that come up in a Google search are from reputable, good companies. It's almost exactly like your filter.

      The big problem with Google is not that searching for "Widget Type X" produces too good of results. Because the ads will always produce good results also. The real problem is in searching for "something" that is not a product invariably wants to get gamed by taking the information from another site, but surrounding it with ads that they get paid for rather than the original content site, flooding the search results.

    4. Re:Can Google afford to stop spam? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I tried out sitetruth quickly to see how it works. It appears to favor companies far too heavily for any topic in which I would not actually want to buy something. For instance I looked up 'triangle mesh' and the most obvious flaw is that the wikipedia article is marked as questionable.

    5. Re:Can Google afford to stop spam? by Hatta · · Score: 2

      Stopping web spam is technically quite possible. We do it by finding the business behind the web site, and doing some automated due diligence. We check business records, SEC filings, BBB ratings, and Dun and Bradstreet to verify business legitimacy

      And what if the non-spam result I'm looking for is not a business?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    6. Re:Can Google afford to stop spam? by stuckinphp · · Score: 0

      Blekko won't work

      There is one other thing in this world that search engines take care of other than advertising. Do that right, and you win a whole load of market share relatively easily.

      The funny thing is, Blekko is doing a hell of a lot better than Google is in this regard. Links NSFW.

      These Slashtag things aren't a new idea. Just a new name to the tagging system of old. Applying it to a search engine and mashing it with twitter @'s and facebook Likes isn't even that innovative, at least not something we didn't see coming. The fact is Google is too busy trying to take over the social aspect of the internet instead of simply integrating with the existing systems in place. They probably dropped the ball on this one and are starting to look a lot more like Microsoft these days.

      People in power with all the information in the world are control freaks. Whuwuldathunkit. News at 11 I guess.

      --
      if only
    7. Re:Can Google afford to stop spam? by Peeteriz · · Score: 1

      Stopping web spam is technically quite possible - get the common web queries that people are complaining about, have a couple grunts check the sites, and if they are link-farms, then manually add a permanent negative infinity to the pagerank of these sites. THe fact that they are not doing this despite their ability indicates that they are not so interested in that.

    8. Re:Can Google afford to stop spam? by Rakishi · · Score: 1

      Google doesn't need to show better ad results than search results because people are idiots. The first ad can be identical to the first search result and people will still slick the add in droves. People are idiots and they'll clicks ads no matter what. No idea why.

      Attempting to put some sort of malicious view onto google in terms of ads pretty much shows your ignorance of how they work. Google shows very few ads compared to what they could show and as a result they sacrifice a massive amount of money. They block bad ads and don't promote bad ads to the top of the page. If one of their now dead competitors showed that few ads they'd have been bankrupt years ago.

      The bottom feeders likely provide crap revenue to google and google would probably gladly kill them all. I wouldn't be surprised if google was discounting those bottom feeder click payments to insane levels. The damage to advertiser revenue from essentially worthless (ie: non converting) clicks (which means the advertiser's aren't willing to pay as much for clicks overall) is likely much greater than the pittance they make on those ads being clicked.

      Then again your agenda (ie: it pays you to do so) is making google look bad so I have no idea how much of that you really don't know and how much you simply ignore mentioning.

    9. Re:Can Google afford to stop spam? by Rakishi · · Score: 1

      Do you realize how many search terms there are and how many websites there are out there? The major search terms are probably human checked but that still leaves I'd guess a billion unique search terms left over. So there are probably millions of spam websites operating over tens of millions of search terms. That's not counting the unsuccessful spam sites, Blekko claims there's a million spam pages created every hour. So basically, you nuke one and they make twenty more in it's place.

      Then again I suspect if they did what you wanted and in the process took out some random guy's legitimate website (ie: nuked his search rankings) you'd be the first one complaining about how evil google is for doing something like that.

    10. Re:Can Google afford to stop spam? by Animats · · Score: 1

      So basically, you nuke one and they make twenty more in it's place.

      Right. That's what clobbered Craigslist. Crowdsourced "flagging" vs. Craigslist Auto Poster: Auto Poster wins.

      Craiglist tried email verification. They tried phone verification. They tried CAPCHAs. Nothing worked. Google Places uses the same techniques. Google tried postcard verification, and there are at least three known schemes for getting around that.

    11. Re:Can Google afford to stop spam? by Firehed · · Score: 1

      Depending on what you're searching for, ads can actually be the most relevant result. While I generally avoid clicking ads, if I'm looking for products, then I'm looking for a store, and dicey review aggregator sites are of no help to me, but the company willing to spend a dollar to get me as a customer happens to be exactly what I need. I'm going to click what appears to be the most relevant result, which on occasion actually is an ad.

      And it's in their best interest to ensure the ads are as relevant as possible, not because they get clicked more (earning them more money), but because it makes the search results appear more relevant. If the search results appear to suck because crappy ads are bubbling to the top, people will take their searches elsewhere. From what I hear, it's very difficult (and expensive) to fix that bad reputation as an advertiser with Google - that's to say that wasting ten grand on lousy ads will cost another 20-40k in lower-ranking but good ads before Google will start to trust you again and let your stuff make it to the top of the page.

      Bottom line is that you're right - ad results don't need to be better than the search results. People expect to click around a bit to find what they want. But consistently having crap at the top of the page would drive people to try other search engines, so the ads still need to be reasonably well targeted.

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
    12. Re:Can Google afford to stop spam? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And what if the non-spam result I'm looking for is not a business?

      Then there's less of a motive for anyone to spam it out. (Hopefully.)

    13. Re:Can Google afford to stop spam? by Rhaban · · Score: 1

      I just tried a few searches... a lot of relevant results on non-business sites are tagged as spam, while junk results on business sites are tagged as relevant.

      Looks like you need a little more work.

    14. Re:Can Google afford to stop spam? by Peeteriz · · Score: 1

      I don't see fly-by-night autocreated sites overtaking great sites in #1 spot - these are permanent, long established spam sites as it does take some time and 'reputation'/link building to get there, so manual whacking would definitely get some use. Noone cares if there are spam sites as such somewhere in the listings - the problem is that they get allowed to grow larger ratings over time than good sites.

  18. A Poor Google Experience by ChaoticCoyote · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've switched to other search engines; from my experience, Google provides too many tangential and corporate references when I do research.

    Also, how does Google "know" that their search results were valid? I'll often do a Google search, click a couple of links, and after being disappointed, I'll go to another search engine where I get more useful results.

    What bugs me the most are searches on technical or medical topics, where Google give me a dozen "harvester" results -- e.g., I get sites that have stolen conversations from other message boards, and reported them along with tons of ads. Yuck! There must be dozens of hundreds of sites, all with broken answers to questions about JavaScript and/or medicines.

    Just because evidence is anecdotal doesn't mean it should be blithely discounted. If I say "Ouch" at being cut, that means the injury hurt me; the pain is quite real even if no one else has felt it.

    1. Re:A Poor Google Experience by I8TheWorm · · Score: 2

      I'm kind of like you, only I "know" beforehand which engine I want to use.

      • Bing is pretty concise, but obviously limits a lot of choices.
      • Blekko is pretty interesting, and I use it so far as a novelty.
      • I use Google when I want a metric assload of results that I know I'll have to sort through myself.
      • I use Indeed for job hunting.
      • I mainly use Pricewatch for shopping.
      • And Wolfram Alpha is kind of fun for niche stuff and automatic answers.

      The reality of it all is Google is not the optimal search engine.... nobody's search engine is.

      --
      Saying Android is a family of phones is akin to saying Linux is a family of PCs.
    2. Re:A Poor Google Experience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm kind of like you, only I "know" beforehand which engine I want to use.

      • Bing is pretty concise, but obviously limits a lot of choices.
      • Blekko is pretty interesting, and I use it so far as a novelty.
      • I use Google when I want a metric assload of results that I know I'll have to sort through myself.
      • I use Indeed for job hunting.
      • I mainly use Pricewatch for shopping.
      • And Wolfram Alpha is kind of fun for niche stuff and automatic answers.

      The reality of it all is Google is not the optimal search engine.... nobody's search engine is.

      Using Bing just puts you in the Microsoft Shill category.

    3. Re:A Poor Google Experience by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      I've switched to other search engines;

      Which, and why? Seriously, aside from Bing (the greater evil), what's our options?

      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    4. Re:A Poor Google Experience by noidentity · · Score: 1

      Please share a list of the other sites that you find more useful for technical/medical uses.

    5. Re:A Poor Google Experience by laktech · · Score: 1

      So from your list, unless you're job hunting or shopping you use Google. Google must really suck.

    6. Re:A Poor Google Experience by swillden · · Score: 1

      What bugs me the most are searches on technical or medical topics, where Google give me a dozen "harvester" results -- e.g., I get sites that have stolen conversations from other message boards, and reported them along with tons of ads. Yuck! There must be dozens of hundreds of sites, all with broken answers to questions about JavaScript and/or medicines.

      Google calls these "content farms", and TFA says they're taking steps to remove them from search results.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    7. Re:A Poor Google Experience by I8TheWorm · · Score: 1

      Did Bing, Wolfram Alpha, and Blekko not show up on your monitor? They show up on mine.

      --
      Saying Android is a family of phones is akin to saying Linux is a family of PCs.
  19. The spammers are winning (for now). by mbone · · Score: 2

    I think that the solid consensus among the people I know that track such things is that the spammers are winning and the quality of search is going down. I know that this is my own experience. That may or may not mean that Google is slacking off, but I don't think that perception comes from thin air.

  20. Whew! by bonch · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Our tests say we're better than what our customers are saying!"

  21. Re:When you're losing, just change how you keep sc by MarkGriz · · Score: 1

    Exactly. Who gives a rat's ass if your spam is 1/2 what it was 5 years ago.
    Does anyone really remember results from 5 years ago?
    It's certainly much more than it was 1 year ago.

    --
    Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.
  22. FUD by wiredlogic · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm seeing less spam than a few years ago when link farms and Wikipedia clones were showing up everywhere on the top results pages. This smells like Microsoft funded FUD.

    --
    I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
    1. Re:FUD by I8TheWorm · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't think it is. I (and apparently quite a few responders here) am seeing worse results now than ever before. Anything remotely close to what I search for tends to start around the third or fourth result (not including sponsored results).

      --
      Saying Android is a family of phones is akin to saying Linux is a family of PCs.
    2. Re:FUD by micheas · · Score: 2

      Out of curiosity, what do you typically search for that you see worse results?

      I ask because I have noticed a noticeable improvement in the last year, after about two years of the spammers consistently causing me to alter my search patterns, but I mostly search error messages.

    3. Re:FUD by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I (and your mom) have typically found what I am looking for in the first page of results. I've posted two such recent searches here. I am not a guru of search terms, although I have some small skill in this area. Perhaps you could post some example searches?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:FUD by I8TheWorm · · Score: 1

      It really varies. IT and development, portal implementation, musical gear, something interesting my kids brought up, etc...

      I did have a conversation here on /. recently about how I search. I refuse to do full text questions, and rather search using keywords I know will get me the results I want. Maybe that's the way google has been improving lately?

      FWIW, when I search something very specific (error messages with quotes around it) google is spot on for me.

      --
      Saying Android is a family of phones is akin to saying Linux is a family of PCs.
    5. Re:FUD by I8TheWorm · · Score: 1

      A quick example is googling the following
      "fender 5 string american jazz bass"
      The first link is one for sale on musiciansfriend, the second is a link to fender's site. This one doesn't shine as me having to sort through several responses, but is the first I tried.

      "sharepoint implementation" gets a little more interesting. The first link to synergyonline is for consulting services. The second is a blog post with top 10 pitfalls. The third is a best practices article from techtarget. The fourth, a pdf from another consultant. Finally on the fifth you at least get an MS blog post. None of this would be solved by adding Microsoft to the search terms.

      Just the first couple of examples that come to mind.

      --
      Saying Android is a family of phones is akin to saying Linux is a family of PCs.
    6. Re:FUD by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Try "implement sharepoint". you need to use root words when talking to google unless you specifically only want variants. You're getting too tricky.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    7. Re:FUD by I8TheWorm · · Score: 1

      That makes sense, but the results are similar. It's not that big a deal though, like most /.ers I can weed through the crap pretty quickly.

      All in all it's still leaps and bounds better than the days of altavista and the like.

      --
      Saying Android is a family of phones is akin to saying Linux is a family of PCs.
    8. Re:FUD by fremsley471 · · Score: 1

      Maybe it is FUD, but I'm just a humble user sitting on a sofa, who this month has changed search engines [my new one quacks] in my firefox browser; feels odd, but the results jut have less noise. I'm happily sold on Google through and through otherwise (wish calendar would have more public apps) and can't beat the cost of docs. Just fed up with the SNR lowering so much.

    9. Re:FUD by Tim+C · · Score: 1

      For my part, almost any search for reviews of products will see results heavily dominated by price comparison and shopping sites, all of which allow user-posted reviews, almost none of which actually have any reviews.

      From time to time searching on error messages and related tech stuff throws up pages of mailing list/forum/Usenet archive sites reposting identical copies of mostly or wholly useless threads. Not spam per se, but definitely not useful.

  23. Quality searches? HA! by countertrolling · · Score: 1

    Just try to find XP drivers without going some spammy "driversdownload.com". Google is good for one thing...barroom trivia and shopping.. okay two things...

    --
    For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    1. Re:Quality searches? HA! by micheas · · Score: 1

      Ah. I am not a windows user, and don't help that many problems on windows, but I remember that garbage site the last time I had to rebuild a windows computer, IIRC I wound up finding the manufacturers website and using "site:devicemanufacturer.com my device" as the search string. Otherwise I got nothing but malware and spam.

      I knew people were not making up their stories about the horrible results, I just haven't been hitting them.

      Linux system admin has gotten a lot better over the last couple years, and mysq and postgres searches normally take me to the official documentation instead of some random howto that is mostly wrong.

    2. Re:Quality searches? HA! by Zelgadiss · · Score: 1

      I searched "ati drivers xp" got "ati.amd.com/support/driver.HTML"

      What's the problem?

  24. That's what I tell my girlfriend by Moraelin · · Score: 1

    That's what I tell the missus. Her anecdotes can't be true, according to my metrics, my sexual performance is not just great, it improved by an order of two in the last 5 years.

    Of course, I can't tell you or her what my numbers are, or what I measured, or how, because it's proprietary and a trade secret.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
    1. Re:That's what I tell my girlfriend by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's what I tell the missus. Her anecdotes can't be true, according to my metrics, my sexual performance is not just great, it improved by an order of two in the last 5 years.

      Of course, I can't tell you or her what my numbers are, or what I measured, or how, because it's proprietary and a trade secret.

      Number of orgasms she fakes of course.

  25. To me it looks like search engine spam is going up by linebackn · · Score: 3, Informative

    I've certainly noticed the quality of searches going down recently, at least for less common searches. I regularly search for oddball system files, software, drivers, etc, the first few pages of results are often very scammy looking sites devoid of actual content and what I am looking for is a dozen pages in. Often these results trump even official big company web sites. Heck while half asleep I used Google to search for OpenOffice, clicked the first link, clicked a big download button, and when trying to install it later I realized whatever I downloaded was certainly *NOT* OpenOffice. (Don't know what it was, I deleted it quickly)

  26. Three word search should give exact results! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Google's biggest mistake is that when I search three words, for example "kontact outer space", I don't get the result of those three words. I don't want google to outsmart me. Sure, they might suggest that I misspelled "kontact" and that it should be "contact", but I know better (kontact is a KDE PIM suite you know). Now I have to add those "+" in front of all words. Annoying. Other than that, google really sucks at searching exact phrases that include punctuation, such as programming code. But that's another story, and pretty OT...

  27. Excellent Idea by Timmy+D+Programmer · · Score: 1

    I would sooo use that feature!

    --


    (If at first you don't succeed, do it different next time!)
    1. Re:Excellent Idea by _0xd0ad · · Score: 1

      It seems like it would be pretty easy to write a GreaseMonkey script to add a pre-defined set of search terms to every search, so you could write out a list in the form -site:spamsite1.com -site:spamsite2.com etc.

      You could also probably edit the Firefox search engine definition to do it automatically when you search from the search bar.

    2. Re:Excellent Idea by badkarmadayaccount · · Score: 1

      Nice idea - though I've had problems with javascript links - any ideas?

      --
      I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
    3. Re:Excellent Idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was thinking more along the lines of automatically appending the blocklist to the &q= search query string before submitting the form on Google. I'm not sure how javascript links would relate to that.

  28. Content Mills & Bad Metrics by jambarama · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In the last few years, I've found search results have been dominated more and more by content mills like associated content, ehow, hubpages, about, and others; or some low quality Q&A page, like yahoo answers. The pages are hastily written and edited, and low content. The articles are also typically written by someone without any relevant knowledge or experience - so the information is common knowledge or wrong.

    If google's metrics say quality is up, but their users think quality is down, then google's metrics need to be revised to match user experience more closely. I've started using duck duck go because they block content mills, and thus I think their results are as good or better than google, even without the complicated algorithms and all the data google has accumulated.

    1. Re:Content Mills & Bad Metrics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you look at those spam pages superficially, the look real. Sure, the obvious content mills have been filtered out,
      but that just caused them to mutate to avoid the filters. They look much more like real blogs now.

      I think Google is badly mistaken. They better figure that out because billions of dollars are on the line and I
      am quickly tiring of the spam pages google is serving up (and I consider myself a google fan).

    2. Re:Content Mills & Bad Metrics by kaiser423 · · Score: 1

      Exactly. The problem here is that user opinion and google's opinion of what's working is diverging.

      This is starting to feel like AltaVista just before the Google revolution hit...I know that at least 50% of my tech friends would immediately switch to a new search engine that solves the problem. That should scare Google very, very much.

  29. Re:In the meantime, Google is busted! Re: Java cod by I8TheWorm · · Score: 1

    Did you miss this earlier today?

    --
    Saying Android is a family of phones is akin to saying Linux is a family of PCs.
  30. Morons @ Google... by WaffleMonster · · Score: 2

    In my own experience spam on google is constantly getting worse and more fustrating to deal with ... I expect it for searches where there is not likely to be any hits but it is also starting to creep into top spots in situations where there is more dense information available.

    I remember back in the day people working logistics used to run algorithms to maximize profits for store supply chains but their efforts actually lost a great deal of revenue as algorithms did not understand human factors and how people having to go somewhere else to get an objectivly less profitable item would impact their sales.

    It is a complex space and to think you can simply throw algorithms at detecting and characterizing a problem you can't detect and quantify in the first place (Unless they actually can but are choosing not to for obvious evil reasons) seems more than just a little bit naive.

    If I were google I would conduct a survey and see what real humans think about the problem rather than playing the part of a foolish statistician.

    I also take exception to Matts message.. don't tell someone whos pissed off about the amount of spam that it is getting better. This is an amature hour loosing proposition. Just tell us what you plan on doing to fix it or don't say anything at all.

    1. Re:Morons @ Google... by MattCutts · · Score: 1

      I tried to say that spam had gone up recently, and tried to talk about what we're planning to do about it.

  31. Re: too helpful? by synthesizerpatel · · Score: 1

    Typing things in correctly apparently is harder. Why should I play on hard-mode because I know how to search correctly?

    You can't argue that google wants to limit 'bad' searches -- the search-while-you-type feature obliterates that argument. They don't care about the number of searches you do, and seemingly less and less about the quality.

  32. Google groups by Arlet · · Score: 1

    They should also take a look at the Google groups interface to Usenet. It's nothing but spam.

    1. Re:Google groups by gblackwo · · Score: 1

      Earth to Arlet, most of usenet is spam nowadays- are you saying that is googles fault?

    2. Re:Google groups by Arlet · · Score: 1

      Yes, it's Google's fault for not filtering it. Other Usenet providers already do that, and if I read Usenet through them, I rarely see spam. I'm sure Google has all the spam filtering technology, so it's not really that hard for them to add it to groups.

  33. To find what you want by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Always use advanced search and the filters.

  34. Re: too helpful? by adunstan · · Score: 0

    Yeah... because one extra click on "Search instead for TIPC layer3" is too hard?

    When it adds up to 5000 extra clicks because you find yourself having to do it for almost every other search... yes. I preferred how they used to do it by actually searching for the term you type in and suggesting the term they think it should be, rather than how it is now where they automatically redirect you to what they think it should be and make you click to search what you actually typed.

  35. By the power of logic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We have been accused of having a trash detector that has started to fail at detecting trash and therefore that our content has a lot of trash in it.

    This is false. You see, we carefully analyzed our content using our trash detector and it detected 50% less trash than before, showing that our content is now cleaner than ever.

  36. man I miss the [x] by spottedkangaroo · · Score: 1

    Remember the olden days when you could [x] kill a domain that didn't ever want to see again?

    Why did they ever get rid of that?

    I've taken to using this instead, works great. http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/33156

    --
    Imagine if you weren't allowed to use roads because a bus company complained about your driving 3 times. --skunkpussy
  37. Re: too helpful? by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 2

    What about an "Elite" search engine? "Made by geeks/nerds for geeks/nerds."
    (I lost track of the political correctness, pick either or your own.)

    The guy who wants drivers, the guy who wants the KDE results, the guy who wants the scrotwm, my advanced search examples, on and on. We don't want to buy things. We're out to search for ruthless hard info.

    Google took a cute step with the "reading level". It sorta helps.

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  38. Re:Blekko by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

    You're right. Blekko is neat.

    Google Advanced Search is #1 on Blekko for term Advanced.

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  39. Nah, that wouldn't be objective by Moraelin · · Score: 1

    Nah, if it depended on her reactions, it wouldn't be objective any more. And besides, it wouldn't fair to downgrade _my_ rating just because on some days _she_ can't fake quickly enough ;)

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  40. Google results don't contain searched for terms. by harl · · Score: 4, Informative

    Here's a great example of returning pages that don't contain what you're searching for.

    Search for +open +cat +mug +frame

    The first link only contains 2 of the 4 terms.

    Returning a page that does not contain a required search term is a failure state.

    --
    I find being offended by me offensive.
  41. Does Matt Cutts have money in NextTag or BizRate? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I suppose if you're surrounded by a bunch of top geek talent, when you have a question on, say, some feature of Linux or networking or something, you just ask the person in the cubicle next to you. Me, I have to use things like Google, and I rarely find answers 'fresher' than 2007, which might as well be 1997 for all their worth with the pace of most OSS projects.

  42. Re: too helpful? by stobbard · · Score: 1

    In some cases, they don't show a "Did you mean ...". It happens that search term are just silently chenged to what Google thinks you really mean. I've seen this depend on the context, the other terms you enter for the same search. On example, for me (using encrypted.google.com, logged in with my account. No idea if that changes anything) if I search for "worf" I get results about Worf the klingon (Wikipedia at #1). But if I search for "keylar worf" (I was trying to find out what the name of that gal was that he boinked on the Holodeck), the terms "keylar" and "word" and "work" are bold in the results but not "worf". Screenshot. There's no notice at all of the change.
    Combine that with the problem that nowadays you have to add a "+" in front of half your search terms so they won't get ignored, and you get some seriously irritated users.

  43. I have to ask.. by uberjack · · Score: 1
  44. filter squatters and I'm happy by lordbeejee · · Score: 1

    One thing that needs to be handled though is the cybersquatters at the top of many searches, It can't be impossible to filter if they compare searches worldwide.

  45. Re:Does Matt Cutts have money in NextTag or BizRat by whitehaint · · Score: 1

    It has that option, search tools on the left of the screen.

  46. Re:Does Matt Cutts have money in NextTag or BizRat by AvitarX · · Score: 2

    Well a real article from 1997 would be better than what I was describing (though I find adding an Ubuntu version (as that's what I've been using) works wonders.

    e.g. Blah don't work 10.10 ubuntu

    My point is that the "fresh" sites I get are all paragraphs of the same article, in a site called techwizbang.com or some such, with my exact google search appended as a search query on their site.

    I wouldn't even be offended if it was the front page of a blog, but when it's some clearly (I hope) robot generated blog full of ads, often linking to other blogs, I would call it SPAM, even if "fresh", "Comprehensive", and "relevant". It is true they have pretty much halted SPAM in the sense that a porn site comes up when looking for something else, but these search pages, or keyword pages, on crappy robot generated blogs are pissing me off.

    --
    Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
  47. Google is full of crap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I love Google, compared to Yahoo it is light years ahead, BUT, back in the late 90's, early 00's it was easy to do advanced searches and pinpoint specific information quickly. Now the only way to pinpoint specific information is to restrict searches to specific websites where useful information is available. Google's search seems to be much more focused on consumer shopping than anything else these days. Google is becoming less useful as a general search engine and more useful as a consumer search engine and in that very limited function I could agree with Principal Engineer Matt Cutts.

  48. Meeting specifications but not reaching goals ... by perpenso · · Score: 1

    My anecdotal evidence trumps your empirical evidence any day!

    They are not necessarily reaching their goal of better searches, they are simply meeting their design specification. Their metrics are a model, a guess, at what better search results *may* be. If the metrics are off, then their results will probably also be off.

  49. Expert Sex Change by LSDelirious · · Score: 1

    hopefully that shouldn't be a problem anymore: "As of December 18th, 2010 experts exchange stopped displaying solutions to search engines" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experts-Exchange

    --
    Slavery is the legal fiction that a person is property; A Corporation is the legal fiction that property is a person.
  50. Re:Google results don't contain searched for terms by creativeHavoc · · Score: 4, Informative

    Actually it does, the description text is hidden until some user actions are taken. A ctrl-f on the page may not return results for the terms, but viewing source and ctrl-f does.

    --
    insight through the mind
  51. Re:Google results don't contain searched for terms by zxsqkty · · Score: 1

    Your example link returns all four search terms if you grep the source of the page, so your search was actually 100% successful in terms of keyword occurrence.

    Keyword relevance, however, is in the eye of the beholder. Look to the comments on that page for occurrences of 'open' and 'frame'...

    --
    Caution: May contain nuts.
  52. Re:Google results don't contain searched for terms by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Two of your terms are in the page content (cat and mug)

    One of them is in the pull down menu on the left (frame)

    The missing one is used in a link that points to that page and so Google thinks it might still be relevant.

    Not that I'm dismissing your point. You didn't get the results you expected...

  53. Read their blog post: That's not what they said by DragonWriter · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Actually, if you read the blog post from Google linked in TFS, they aren't saying that "there is no problem" (as parent post's title suggested) or that "it's great" (as parent post's text suggested.)

    They did say that their own metrics don't show the trend that various, mostly anecdotal, critics have claimed. But they also said that they view the spam that does exist as a problem, and they announced several steps to address it:

    As we’ve increased both our size and freshness in recent months, we’ve naturally indexed a lot of good content and some spam as well. To respond to that challenge, we recently launched a redesigned document-level classifier that makes it harder for spammy on-page content to rank highly. The new classifier is better at detecting spam on individual web pages, e.g., repeated spammy words—the sort of phrases you tend to see in junky, automated, self-promoting blog comments. We’ve also radically improved our ability to detect hacked sites, which were a major source of spam in 2010. And we’re evaluating multiple changes that should help drive spam levels even lower, including one change that primarily affects sites that copy others’ content and sites with low levels of original content. We’ll continue to explore ways to reduce spam, including new ways for users to give more explicit feedback about spammy and low-quality sites.

    As “pure webspam” has decreased over time, attention has shifted instead to “content farms,” which are sites with shallow or low-quality content. In 2010, we launched two major algorithmic changes focused on low-quality sites. Nonetheless, we hear the feedback from the web loud and clear: people are asking for even stronger action on content farms and sites that consist primarily of spammy or low-quality content. We take pride in Google search and strive to make each and every search perfect. The fact is that we’re not perfect, and combined with users’ skyrocketing expectations of Google, these imperfections get magnified in perception. However, we can and should do better.

    This is not a company denying that there is a problem because their internal metrics don't match the problems being reported. It is a company acknowledging that there is a problem and committing to take action on it, even though their own internal metrics don't agree with their critics on the size of or trend in the problem.

    1. Re:Read their blog post: That's not what they said by CAIMLAS · · Score: 1

      Spam isn't the problem. If someone's scraped content is useful to me, I'll use it.

      The problem is that whatever they're doing to eliminate the so-called spam is also making the use of exacting search terminology useless - literally, 100%, useless. Good luck finding anything useful from a line of output from `dmesg` - you'll find a dozen unanswered messages from Ubuntu forums from 4 years ago, and not much else.

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    2. Re:Read their blog post: That's not what they said by SnowZero · · Score: 1

      The problem is that whatever they're doing to eliminate the so-called spam is also making the use of exacting search terminology useless - literally, 100%, useless. Good luck finding anything useful from a line of output from `dmesg` - you'll find a dozen unanswered messages from Ubuntu forums from 4 years ago, and not much else.

      So exact string searches are useless because they turn up those exact strings, but it doesn't have the answer you want? I like searching for error messages too, but sometimes there simply isn't an answer online. Google can't fix that. We as users can help though, by posting to forums, blogs and whatnot when we do find a solution.

      I know it's pretty non-obvious, but quoting a string and adding a + in front will make Google much more strict about string matching all of the words. It does strip out some symbols and numbers, but it is really hard to build a search engine without making some simplifications like that.

      Let's try an example. Looking at my dmesg, I see this error:
          ACPI Error (psparse-0537): Method parse/execution failed [\_SB_.PCI0.LPC_.EC__.PUBS._STA] (Node ffff88007cb2e0e0), AE_TIME

      Searching for that yields no results. With some search/computer skill, I look and notice that Node is a number that might simply be a memory location, and thus make it nearly impossible to find a full string match. If I drop that, I get a few results:
          ACPI Error (psparse-0537): Method parse/execution failed [\_SB_.PCI0.LPC_.EC__.PUBS._STA] AE_TIME

      That gets a couple of results, but probably not enough to find a good answer. Now I try dropping the strange path-looking thing:
          ACPI Error (psparse-0537): Method parse/execution failed AE_TIME

      This gets lots of results that seem to be related. Now, I may not find my answer there, but the search engine has done its job IMHO.

  54. Santorum by Katchu · · Score: 1

    Manipulated results example: Google search for Santorum

    --
    Keep Doing Good.
    1. Re:Santorum by dargaud · · Score: 1

      Yes, but that's manipulated by a lot of willing people, so it's perfectly adequate that google should return it. And honestly I have difficulty distinguishing between the two main definitions of the word...

      --
      Non-Linux Penguins ?
  55. "Blithely discounted"? by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

    Just because evidence is anecdotal doesn't mean it should be blithely discounted.

    True, but irrelevant. Google, even though they say that their measurements don't support the trend that certain media articles have suggested, is not blithely disregarding comments about too much spam or the perception that it is increasing. If you read the blog post linked in TFS, you'll see that they do several things:
    1. State that their metrics show that spam in results is decreasing,
    2. Identify recent steps they've taken to decrease spam,
    3. Acknowledge that they are aware of concerns about the quality of results,
    4. Suggest that they believe that the perception of a trend toward less satisfying results is a result of their improvements not matching the pace at which expectations of Google are increasing,
    5. Acknowledge that, despite the improvements they believe they have made, they "can and should do better",
    6. Present steps they are in the process of implementing to decrease spam further,
    7. Specifically deny that their algorithms and delisting policies for the search engine are friendly to spammy sites that have Google Ads.

    1. Re:"Blithely discounted"? by rudy_wayne · · Score: 1

      1. State that their metrics show that spam in results is decreasing,

      Except that spam results have not decreased. Google's so-called "metrics" are wrong, or broken or measuring the wrong thing.

      2. Identify recent steps they've taken to decrease spam

      Except that they have only "decreased spam" by adopting a very narrow definition of spam. See #1

      3. Acknowledge that they are aware of concerns about the quality of results

      We're aware of your concerns. How nice. But meaningless.

      4. they believe that the perception of a trend toward less satisfying results is a result of their improvements not matching the pace at which expectations of Google are increasing

      Wrong, wrong, wrong, and bullshit. Quality of search results has deteriorated. It's not a perception, it's a reality.

      5. Acknowledge that, despite the improvements they believe they have made, they "can and should do better",

      More meaningless platitudes

      6. Present steps they are in the process of implementing to decrease spam further

      "decrease spam further" implies that they have already reduced spam, which they haven't.

      7. Specifically deny that their algorithms and delisting policies for the search engine are friendly to spammy sites that have Google Ads.

      OK.

  56. Re:Google results don't contain searched for terms by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This has annoyed me to no end. I search for a page which contains at the very least some specific words. You go to the page, hit CTRL+F, type in on of the words you are searching for and get 0 results. The way I search I want it to return pages ONLY with those words in it if I put a + in front of something. Don't try to outsmart me google! Don't try to "know" what I "meant to search for". Just give me a result which has the content I asked for. Maybe for the everyday user google is easier to use as they have poor search terms and this works for them, but power users really hate this kind of thing.

    Google is becoming the Windows of search engines, they protect you from yourself, and don't deliver what you actually ask for.

  57. If you're searching for obscure things... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How do you know that information actually exists out there somewhere?

    I mean, if you search for something where no legitimate content exists, doesn't it stand to reason that the results you get, if any, are 100% spam?

  58. Re:Google results don't contain searched for terms by TheCanadianCoward · · Score: 1

    Try searching for a review on any say computer tech hardware item. First page of results will be garbage redirect sites that have spidered other websites and cloned their prices and tried to present it as their own. Google is slowly turning into complete shit, this probably has more to do with investors having more say, and growing too large too fast. Does anyone remember how really great their search results were when it was just a research project?

  59. Re: too helpful? by SpammersAreScum · · Score: 1

    If I only needed to do so once in a while, it might be OK. But when it happens dozens of times a day, the aggravation and wasted time start to add up. Coincidentally, I just posted a complaint about this to the Google Search forum a couple days ago, asking for a profile setting to prevent this behavior.

    Oh, and I agree about the domain blocking. Google used to allow this, and they really ticked me off when they took it away. The -site: hack becomes rather cumbersome when there are dozens if not hundreds of sites you want to block.

  60. Prefix a + by rosvall · · Score: 1

    Prefix every word or quoted string with a plus. It works, even if it's really annoying.

  61. Charles Bucolicowski by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Google's results have become utter crap. Color me duckduckGONE, baby!

  62. Re:Google results don't contain searched for terms by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, and this is a problem.

  63. Fed up with Google by Ozoner · · Score: 1

    I frequently search for Engineering data sheets.

    In the past, Google would give you the wanted pdf in the first few hits.

    Now you get pages and pages of spam sites who don't actually have the file you want.

    I'm desperately hoping for a Google replacement. Blekko comes close, but not yet.

  64. Ah, great... by BillX · · Score: 1

    Despite the "no, we're perfect" attitude, I'm sure all this publicity will find them cranking up the sensitivity on their infallible (sarcasm intended) webspam detector algorithm. Ever try to get in touch with a live human to report a misclassification, or even find out what triggered it? As someone who had his entire (noncommercial, ad-free, and 100% original material) site misclassified as a spam site and delisted from Google for about a month last year, I can confirm that the procedure for getting a potential Algorithm issue addressed by a live human involves knowing someone who is Facebook friends with Matt Cutts.

    I eventually got this resolved (with approximately a month of trial and error; I'm not facebook friends with Matt Cutts) - it turned out the webspam algorithm was keying on a text file from an extensive dossier of published anti-malware research, documenting the list of keywords a particular piece of spyware used to trigger popup ads over webpages. For that, entire domain blocked, including subdomains. Censoring the keywords got us unbranded as spammers, but I really shouldn't have to do that.

    (PS. I even dumped Google and tried using Bing for a few weeks out of protest...believe me, the view over there isn't any prettier.)

    --
    Caveat Emptor is not a business model.
    1. Re:Ah, great... by MattCutts · · Score: 1

      Actually, if you're talking about cexx.org, we detected that your main root page was hacked. Because of the hacked content, we removed the site from our index and tried to contact you at abuse at cexx.org. Here, check out this archive.org link and view the source yourself: http://web.archive.org/web/20091027195941/www.cexx.org/main.htm

  65. my metrics by synapse7 · · Score: 1

    Well google fails my metrics. Usually the top 5 results of most searches consist of content farms or articles around 5 years of age. Why are older articles weighted more than new articles, I want relevant info!

  66. I've noticed that it is getting worse by dave562 · · Score: 1

    My primary use of Google is to research system and application error messages that I come across while at work. A few years ago searching for an error message would yield some valuable results. These days it seems like the same kind of searches often turn up other people looking for the same information. Those search results usually take the form of forum postings and Usenet postings. Almost every single time, there will be one or two other results in the same result set that are exact same question, just copied into another forum. It's like spammers are simply taking Usenet postings, mirroring them, and then putting AdWords links on the mirrored pages.

  67. Just a thought by Zamphatta · · Score: 1

    Saying "spam in Google's results is less than half what it was five years ago" could be their way of hiding something like "it was 20% then but just 10% now", and if spam has risen at such a rate during this time that 10% now, is greater than 20% then, well... the total spam would be higher even if the percentage itself was cut in half. And acting like there can't possibly be a problem and that everyone is somehow suddenly perceiving a problem that isn't real, makes me think they might be losing touch with improving their search algorithms. Since I love Google, that comes across scary. I'd hate to use Bing. Please don't make me think Bing might be a viable option.

  68. Trust Google or your Own Lying Eyes by alcmaeon · · Score: 1

    Yeah, I have to agree with you. We have to trust Google. Our eyes lie. Are minds are warped. Only Google is TRUTH. Queue the fanboi choir.

  69. Re:Google results don't contain searched for terms by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From the point of the user, being present in the source isn't sufficient - it needs to be displayed on the page itself. Being displayed on the page after the user takes some actions is somewhere between these two - it should be weighted lower than an appearance on the raw page.

  70. Re:To me it looks like search engine spam is going by 0137 · · Score: 1

    wow, that sounds like incredible bullshit, or /at best/ incompetence on your part. it's certainly not reproducible; unlike most of the anecdotal fud filling the comments we can at least verify that what you claim is not currently the case. good thing you deleted it quickly, if you had only been able to delete it slowly /god knows/ what would've happened to your computer.

  71. Re:Google results don't contain searched for terms by Tim+C · · Score: 1

    Actually in the past I've seen a lot of pages that don't contain one or more of the terms, then on viewing the cached version of the page it turns out that the missing words only appear in links to that page.

    I don't know if that's changed recently though.

  72. Re:Google results don't contain searched for terms by dargaud · · Score: 2

    If I was at google, the very first thing I would implement would be a double robot:
    - the classic one, identified as googlebot
    - another discreet one, identified as IE7 (or whatever is the most common browser at the time), with the page rendered by IE7, blurred a bit and then OCRed.
    The two are then compared, and if they are far from matching, dump the pagerank in the bit bucket. This way you eliminate hidden text, white on white and see text in GIFs.

    --
    Non-Linux Penguins ?
  73. I'm the author of that blog post by MattCutts · · Score: 1

    Hey everybody, the intent of the blog post wasn't to say "everything is hunky dory." Spam on Google is up compared to a few months ago, which is why I said there had been an uptick in spam. Our overall relevancy is better than in the past, but not the part of relevancy related to spam. The rest of the post was trying to say that we hear the complaints and we're working on improvements. The revamp to our doc-level classifier launched in the last few weeks, and a change related to scraped content was approved this week and will launch soon. We're testing other ideas to improve things too.

  74. Really? by hkmwbz · · Score: 1

    The short answer is that according to the evaluation metrics that we've refined over more than a decade, Google's search quality is better than it has ever been in terms of relevance, freshness and comprehensiveness.

    When I search for stuff, I usually get a bunch of "find best price" crap, or nonsense from eHow and other useless sites like that.

    --
    Clever signature text goes here.
  75. Re:When you're losing, just change how you keep sc by JustinOpinion · · Score: 1

    It's not like they win a prize or even get a cookie based on their internal metrics. There is no business advantage for them to have their internal metric of "good user experience" not correlate with actual user experience.

    The metric they are using may be non-optimal or even plain wrong. But the idea that they are intentionally gaming their own internal metrics just so that they can claim "we pass our self-made tests of awesomeness!" is laughable. Google is not that stupid. They want valid metrics because they know that at the end of the day only by making users happy can they can they make money (through advertising, etc.).

    I think one of the points Google is making is that objective and subjective measures are very different. People's perceptions very often are not an accurate measure of real trends. For instance there was a time when the quality of Google search results was decidedly better than competitors; everyone was aware of the quality and lauded them. Nowadays, we're totally accustomed to high-quality search results: from Google and its competitors. Thus we tend to be more critical, noticing flaws that we would have previously ignored (because we were so happy for any improvement over previously abysmal search tools). Thus, we feel that there is a local trend of "Google getting worse" when it really has more to do with our standards progressively getting higher. You can see similar trends at other levels of society: e.g. people often feel that crime is on the increase (even though, statistically, the long-term trend has been a decrease in crime in most developed countries), because recent and extreme news reports of crime are over-weighted compared to the numerous (and easily forgotten) days where nothing bad happened.

    Of course, for Google to keep its users happy, their metric in some sense should account for people's shifting standards, emphasis on short term events, poor statistical intuition, and so on. In other words, to keep users happy, you have to take into account the foibles of the human mind. (E.g. status bars seem to be going faster if they include motion within them, and people will also report a status bar that starts slow and ends fast as "faster" than one which starts fast and ends slow, even if they take the same amount of time...) But just because you or I feel like the search results have gone downhill doesn't mean that they objectively have gotten worse.

  76. Re:Google results don't contain searched for terms by harl · · Score: 1

    So you're saying Google can't tell the difference between what is important to the browser and what is important to the user.

    How's that not a failure state?

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    I find being offended by me offensive.
  77. Re:Google results don't contain searched for terms by harl · · Score: 1

    I don't care about the source. Do you read the source of every page you go to?

    Google can't tell the difference between what is important to the browser and what is important to the human. That's a utter failure to understand your market and what to provide them.

    --
    I find being offended by me offensive.