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Four Outrages Techies Need To Know About the State of the Union

Mr.Intel writes "Last night's State of the Union Address contained ten things (and four outrages) technical professionals need to know about the President's plans, and how his policies might affect you, your employer, and your family well into the future."

489 comments

  1. Blah blah blah by mark72005 · · Score: 1

    The same old tired promises we've been hearing since 2007. Where's the beef?

    1. Re:Blah blah blah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...Or, rather, where's the cream filling?

    2. Re:Blah blah blah by Talderas · · Score: 1

      Creme-filled beef?

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    3. Re:Blah blah blah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...Or, rather, where's the happy ending?

    4. Re:Blah blah blah by corbettw · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The same old tired promises we've been hearing since 1790.

      FTFY.

      --
      God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
    5. Re:Blah blah blah by Lumpy · · Score: 0

      More importantly where is the Crème fraiche!!!

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    6. Re:Blah blah blah by c0d3g33k · · Score: 4, Funny

      The same old tired promises we've been hearing since 2007. Where's the beef?

      Not at Taco Bell, apparently.

    7. Re:Blah blah blah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      there are other forums where you can see and post beef with cream filling.

    8. Re:Blah blah blah by magarity · · Score: 1

      The same old tired promises we've been hearing since 2007. Where's the beef?

      There's enough beef already, not to mention pork, with several mentions of "new investments" and the like, ie: more government spending of money that doesn't exist. I want to know 'where's the lean?' Small percentage cuts in the small percentage of the budget that is discretionary spending? Let me know when that adds up to a noticeable percentage of the whole of federal spending.

    9. Re:Blah blah blah by Brett+Buck · · Score: 1

      Same old promises from about 50,000 years BCE.

    10. Re:Blah blah blah by deepershade · · Score: 1

      The same old tired promises we've been hearing since 2007. Where's the beef?

      in a barrel next to the pork.

    11. Re:Blah blah blah by treeves · · Score: 0

      Well, there's creme filling (what's the difference between creme and cream anyway?) inside an Oreo cookie.
        Hmmm, that might actually be on-topic.

      --
      ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
    12. Re:Blah blah blah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      /*
        * State of the Union Address
      */
      void nothing(void) {}

      For those who forgot C or don't know it, I meant to say that the whole thing is just a bunch of unnecessary words while the implementation is empty.

    13. Re:Blah blah blah by slick7 · · Score: 1

      Same old promises from about 50,000 years BCE.

      Out-educate, out-innovate, out-blah blah blah, this obviously goes with out-source.

      --
      The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
    14. Re:Blah blah blah by jd · · Score: 1

      I think the 1 may be unnecessary.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    15. Re:Blah blah blah by Hotawa+Hawk-eye · · Score: 1

      So are we going to see a Jewish candidate in 2012 running under the slogan "The government's going kosher -- no more pork"?

    16. Re:Blah blah blah by Bigbutt · · Score: 1

      I used to like Taco Bell. I could snag a couple or three tacos and a bean burrito and be good. But when they changed their beef to some adulterated beef, I stopped going, mainly due to the flavor. Nice to find out that they're only using 36% beef (allegedly) with the rest fillers and such.

      [John]

      --
      Shit better not happen!
    17. Re:Blah blah blah by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      That's yet another good reason to only eat chicken at fast food restaurants (as though the health reasons aren't enough).

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    18. Re:Blah blah blah by Rei · · Score: 5, Informative

      Just to shed some facts on the rhetoric: PolitiFact tracks all of the promises Obama made during the campaign and categorizes them. At present, the results are:

      http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/

      Promise Kept: 134
      Compromise: 34
      Promise Broken: 34
      Stalled: 71
      In The Works: 220
      Not Yet Rated: 2

      "Promise Kept" means he promised it, and has already delivered it largely in-tact (example: Lily Ledbetter Fairl Pay Act). "Compromise" means that he promised it, and managed to get it through congress, but had to compromise or water it down to get it passed (example: a lot of the stuff related to Healthcare). "Promise Broken" means that he promised it, but didn't even try or gave up (example: having a public review period for all bills before signing them). "Stalled" means he's still supporting it, but hasn't been making much progress (difficulties in implementation, congressional obstruction, etc) (example: closing Guantanamo). "In The Works" means that he's pushing it, but it hasn't yet made it to through congress (example: eliminating oil and gas tax loopholes).

      Consider that net result as positively or negatively about him as you prefer.

      --
      ... in Siberia, where Putin killed a fish with a speargun. He later claimed it was killed by Ukrainian separatists.
    19. Re:Blah blah blah by Loether · · Score: 1
      --
      TODO create witty sig.
    20. Re:Blah blah blah by DeVilla · · Score: 1

      I'd consider stalled to be awful similar to broken. If he went into office making promises without considering implementation details or the fact that he had t work with the legislature on some things, then he was making promises he couldn't keep.

    21. Re:Blah blah blah by caluml · · Score: 1

      Never heard that about McDs, but yes, it's all about clever wording.

      "Made with 100% chicken" - it's true - they can mix 100% chicken, with other stuff, and end up with 44% chicken. (Made from is different, if I remember rightly)
      Homecooked food is another good one. Made elsewhere, heated up at "home".

    22. Re:Blah blah blah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      That link is pretty goofy.

      That's two flammable ingredients in "chicken" nuggets from McDonalds. I'm starting to suspect that McDonalds is responsible for alleged cases of spontaneous human combustion.

      Funny. He didn't count the fats!

    23. Re:Blah blah blah by jhoegl · · Score: 1

      He isnt out of office yet... so he cant have any "Promise Broken", "Stalled" seems more logical at this point.

    24. Re:Blah blah blah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't forget retroactive immunity for telecoms (AT&T and Verizon) complicit in warrantless wiretapping: http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2008/02/12/amnesty_day

    25. Re:Blah blah blah by scheme · · Score: 1

      None of the statements in that article are backed up and based on how he seems to think tertiary butylhydroquinone is some from of lighter fluid (butane), I'd say that the author doesn't know what he's talking about. Saying tertiary butyl (t-butyl) is like n-btuane is similar to saying the nvram for holding bios images is like ddr ram. It's sort of in the same class but the structure and properties of each is radically different.

      --
      "When you sit with a nice girl for two hours, it seems like two minutes. When you sit on a hot stove for two minutes, it
    26. Re:Blah blah blah by DaleSwanson · · Score: 1

      He isnt out of office yet... so he cant have any "Promise Broken", "Stalled" seems more logical at this point.

      Yes he can. A promise with a time limit "I will do X within one year of taking office", or a promise to always do something "I will do Y before signing any law".

    27. Re:Blah blah blah by PyroMosh · · Score: 1

      No, it makes sense to have a "stalled" category. Look at repealing Don't Ask, Don't Tell. Nothing happened for the first year and a half he was in office. Then progress happened quite rapidly. He didn't break the promise, it passed. But it took a damn long while.

      I'd say that that was "stalled" then moved to "Promises Kept".

      I'm not sure DADT is the best example for this, but sometimes the political realities mean you can't do things right away.

      On the other hand, as others have pointed out, if he said "I'll do X in my first year in office" you can call that broken, perhaps. Though this seems nit-picky to me.

    28. Re:Blah blah blah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      These numbers don't tell a story. Obama campaigned on delivering the country from the worst recession since the early 30s and he specifically said he would walk into the white house on January 20 with executable plans and shovel ready jobs. Instead of focusing his huge popularity among the power holders on putting people back to work, he spent billions on things like state bailouts of teacher union pensions, auto worker pensions, and corporation takeovers.

      One has to ask: did you know he was promising that which he could deliver? Or was he just the simpleton [that most think he is] believing the sky would turn blue because he took office? Given either perspective, the result is the same. He needs to go.

  2. Huh? by iONiUM · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I read the article, I don't see anything specific to techies. Actually that whole article headline sounds like an article out of People magazine. What's going on here?

    1. Re:Huh? by mark72005 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      We got a president out of People magazine.

    2. Re:Huh? by ornil · · Score: 1

      Hear, hear! Complete waste of time.

    3. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I just loved the fact the headline was written as if they were facts, and then it was really just that guy's take on things. Blah not worth the time to click all 3 short pages

    4. Re:Huh? by plopez · · Score: 2

      The speech is just an abstract. A brief synopsis of where the country has been and where he wants to see it go. To drill down you need to do a large amount of research.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    5. Re:Huh? by GrumblyStuff · · Score: 1

      The only decent part is #8 on the third page.

      He points out that what Michele Bachmann (yes, that crazy, crazy bitch) made sense or at least one sentence out of her whole response did.

      "We need to start making things again in this country."

      And then there's some other stuff but mostly that. Promoting broadband access without mention of Net Neutrality, joked about high-speed rail not needing TSA grope-a-thons, and that old bullshit line about energy independence (by 2035, 80% of energy will be clean).

    6. Re:Huh? by vvortex3 · · Score: 0

      What an amateur and failed attempt to affect my opinion.

    7. Re:Huh? by Beelzebud · · Score: 1

      Sarah Palin was only running for VP and she lost.

    8. Re:Huh? by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Not to mention that his final "outrage" was a dude's tie. Seriously? It's a fucking tie. It's fucking cosmetic. If someone wears a tie that wouldn't have been your choice, shut the fuck up and dislike their tie in quiet. Considering that the author previously (and correctly) picked on the immaturity of Congress members, the immature action of calling someone's tie an "outrage" is highly ironic.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    9. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He said "People." You're thinking of "Jugs."

    10. Re:Huh? by DudeTheMath · · Score: 3, Insightful

      TSA pat-downs are less necessary for trains than planes simply because trains can't be redirected into, say, large office buildings or nuclear plants. They're kind of stuck on the rails.

      The above is not to say there can't be plenty of trouble a dedicated terrorist can cause with a passenger train (I could probably come up with a couple of dozen "train hijacking" films), but external damage is a bit more limited. High-speed trains, in particular, are going to need dedicated rail lines, so it would be hard to even crash them into freight trains with hazardous chemicals, say.

      --
      You save only 59 seconds over 8 miles by going 75 instead of 65. Do you really have to pass that guy? Do the Math!
    11. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If that one minute is the difference between clocking in on time, or late, i'll do it.

    12. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, at least the author made a comment about the speaker's tie. That is important stuff! And he got bent out of shape by this:

      “Without the pat-down” was a deeply inappropriate statement on the part of the President.

      How dare the president point out something we all think?

      Talk about a junk article.

    13. Re:Huh? by Golddess · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Oi, on the new /. interface, I couldn't even tell there _was_ a link in TFS until your comment made me double-check.

      --
      "I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
    14. Re:Huh? by epine · · Score: 1

      That's only the beginning of the difference. Trains are hard to depressurize. Trains are hard to divert to Cuba. On a train, the engineer can hit the kill switch and grind to a controlled stop, at which point the terrorist is at a distinct disadvantage: you have helicopters, and they don't.

      Until the invention of the Noisy Cricket, the helicopter problem won't be solved by anything smuggled onto a train between a pair of hairy gonad ears.

      For NBC scenarios, we've already got the pat-free subway system, with a lot more sardines on ice.

      Gewirtz obviously diverted too many brain cells dealing with the Tea Party sentence that compiled -Wall warning free.

    15. Re:Huh? by jfengel · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm not sure that's a problem, though. You can't fly a plane into a building any more. The door is locked, and neither passengers or pilots will ever again believe you're merely looking to head to Cuba. By the time you get through the door, they've either landed, crashed, or been shot down. It would be horrific, but no more horrific than blowing up a crowded train. You might even manage to kill more people on the train, especially if you derailed a crowded one at rush hour.

      Both al Qaeda and the TSA seem to have an unhealthy fixation on planes, rather than turning their attentions elsewhere. Until recently, I think a lot of Americans had joined them on that, though I think that "don't touch my junk" has finally caused a backlash.

    16. Re:Huh? by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      I was thinking the same thing. Worse still that he juxtaposed the two. Of course, you alway have to love commentators looking down their noses at "immature politicians", while calling them "nutty".

      Here, a local talk radio host was making these compassionate and heartfelt calls for civility in public discourse, and to support his point he called on none other that the Master of Civility himself, Howard Stern, who went on a diatribe calling Sarah Palin stupid. It made my brain hurt.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    17. Re:Huh? by nedlohs · · Score: 2

      Not only that but clearly his tie color is what you get when you mix red, white, and blue. So he was being extra patriotic.

    18. Re:Huh? by tekrat · · Score: 1, Troll

      Better than the last one that came out of a drug rehab ward.

      --
      If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
    19. Re:Huh? by SnarfQuest · · Score: 2

      Is it just me, or something to do with the new layout, but I cannot find any links in this article. How do you RTFA when there isn't one to read?

      --
      Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
    20. Re:Huh? by BBTaeKwonDo · · Score: 1

      I agree that the tie was not worthy of mention, but to be fair, the ZDNet writer didn't call the tie an outrage. The outrages were in point 8, but the tie was point 10.

    21. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not that I like Boehner, I can't stand him. But i would like to see more politicians wear ties that aren't red or blue. It gets boring after a while. BTW Dick Cheney wore almost that same color tie a couple of years ago.

    22. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He's only half 3/5 of a person.

    23. Re:Huh? by theaveng · · Score: 0, Troll

      Michelle Bachman is one of the few politicians I trust (along with Ron Paul). Your comment that she is a "crazy bitch" is not only teeny-bopperish, but also sexist and displays your own low IQ.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    24. Re:Huh? by jayme0227 · · Score: 1

      I thought that rather than be "extra patriotic" he was trying to show a display of bipartisanship. Maybe that's just a deep-seated hope and really he's just a nutter, but seeing as he was being reasonably respectful, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

      --
      But then I realized the cable was blue, so I only gave it one star. I hate blue.
    25. Re:Huh? by Vectormatic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Both al Qaeda and the TSA seem to have an unhealthy fixation on planes

      i think the only reason al qaeda still even targets planes is just to keep the TSA alive, knowing that all the scanning/pat-downs are just a miserable experience, basically playing the "if you are scared, the terrorists have won" game, rather then genuinely trying to kill people.

      --
      People, what a bunch of bastards
    26. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you missed the part where the tie was pink. Pink for god's sake. Do you even realize what can happen to our governmental infrastructure if people start wearing pink ties all the time? Soon someone will wear a brown tie, or a green tie. And when that happens, our entire society will crumble. So please get your head out of your ass. This is serious business we're talking about here.

    27. Re:Huh? by maxume · · Score: 1

      Redirecting planes into buildings stopped working almost 10 years ago.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    28. Re:Huh? by Jesus_666 · · Score: 1

      No. If you have anything to do with American politics you must only wear red, white and blue. Ideally all of your clothes have a stars-and-stripes pattern. Also, whenever you're not talking, eating or sleeping you must whistle the Yankee Doodle or chant "USA! USA!" so that everyone knows you are, in fact, an American. From America.

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    29. Re:Huh? by jalefkowit · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's not sexist to observe that a woman who has a long history of saying and doing crazy things may be crazy.

    30. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      to be fair, this guy wasn't elected to help lead the free world. him being childish is different than a congress person being childish. And I hope you are wearing your American flag pin while typing that.

    31. Re:Huh? by Americano · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The point he was making was that the president was trying to score funny points on it - and "pointing out something we all think," when it's his own administration that has foisted these new rules on us that he's cracking jokes about.

      If Pres. Obama feels that these pat-downs are ridiculous and laughable, perhaps he should... oh, I don't know... direct his administration to change the requirement that calls for them?

    32. Re:Huh? by Bemopolis · · Score: 1

      In the 1980s we got one out of Variety.

      --
      "I guess the moral of the story is, don't paint your airship with rocket fuel." -- Addison Bain
    33. Re:Huh? by Ksevio · · Score: 1

      You also don't need to be on a train to blow it up. It would be easier to just place a bomb along the track triggered by the train passing over.

    34. Re:Huh? by c_jonescc · · Score: 1

      We actually do manufacture a shit-ton of things in this country. It's just that we don't have humans doing the menial tasks any more. Our innovation has destroyed a lot of low level factory jobs, but it's a myth to claim that we no longer make things.

      http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2010/10/08/130436221/the-friday-podcast-buttons-and-other-connectors

      --
      Getting diabetes AND salmonella would be a bad weekend.
    35. Re:Huh? by HiMorons · · Score: 1

      Unless those things aren't actually crazy. You lefties sure like to demean the women of the Republican party. Don't think we haven't noticed. :)

    36. Re:Huh? by Aryden · · Score: 1

      "You save only 59 seconds over 8 miles by going 75 instead of 65. Do you really have to pass that guy? Do the Math!" Yes because on the 800 mile trips I make monthly, it saves me an hour and 40 mins each way.

    37. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can't fly a plane into a building any more.

      Maybe if they start allowing electronics to be turned on in planes someday, there will be an App For That

    38. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The people who did Digg 3.0 (or whatever it was called that recently ruined it) were behind the /. redesign?

    39. Re:Huh? by GrumblyStuff · · Score: 1

      I don't really consider moving operations to places with lower standards of living and lower environmental requirements, lowering quality, and paying people cents while still selling products at, or nearly at, full price to be particularly innovated. Seems more like a race to the bottom.

    40. Re:Huh? by Aryden · · Score: 0

      What is not crazy in normal everyday life is absolutely crazy when you are one of the people that is trying to run the government.

      "I can see Russia from my backyard" -- Palin (R) ALaska

      I can see Mars and Venus as well, does that make me an expert on foreign affairs in regards to Martians and Venutians?

    41. Re:Huh? by Aryden · · Score: 1

      If our colors are Red, White and Blue... where are the white ties at?

    42. Re:Huh? by treeves · · Score: 1

      But "crazy" was only one of the two words mentioned.

      --
      ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
    43. Re:Huh? by BearRanger · · Score: 1

      Not only that, the tie was purple, not pink. You know, the color you get when you mix red and blue?

    44. Re:Huh? by man_of_mr_e · · Score: 1

      You certainly can fly a plan into a building still. The door is not that secure, and is in fact designed to break free for depresurization situations. Also, many pilots still open the door during flight, I see it all the time. And many pilots have relationships with their attendants, and threatening to kill them could convince some pilots to open the door.

      Finally, one can think of many scenarios that don't need entrance into the cockpit to cause lots of havok. Gassing the pilots, for instance.

      Many of these situations would require someone to have infiltrated the airport and placed equipment either behind security, or on the plane itself. For instance, how many foreign nationals do you see working in the shops and restaurantes inside security? Lots. Yes, they have to go through security as well, but they get deliveries, and other means that could allow someone to sneak things in.

      Basically, all that's prevented is someone who hasn't planned too well.

    45. Re:Huh? by tragedy · · Score: 2

      Planes aren't really all that easy to depressurize either. People believe all kinds of stupid things about depressurization. Like the idea that one bullet hole in the side of the plane would kill everyone on board. Just dumb. If the plane loses pressure, everyone breathes emergency air and the plane lands. Trains are hard to divert to Cuba, but they're really, really, really easy to derail. They are absolutely dependent on their tracks. They also have huge amounts of mass behind them, far more than any plane with just a few loaded cars. Not to mention that they can be carrying some really nasty stuff. Once they're derailed, the brakes don't do a lot of good either.

      The difference between trains and planes is that you don't need to be in the train to attack it or use it in an attack. Even if you want to board the train, you don't need to get on at the station, you can board it while it's in motion a number of ways. The same is even more true for buses, which is why the recent trials of TSA style pat-downs for buses were so pathetically ridiculous. Of course, the proper response to the 9/11 hijackings have already taken place. That response is a change in public education on plane hijackings. It used to be that the proper thing to do in a hijacking was to comply with the hijackers and wait to be rescued by professionals. Now the proper thing to do is overwhelm the hijackers with superior numbers. A small group of hijackers with boxcutters and a fake bomb aren't going to be able to take over a plane again. If they hadn't been pushing the "don't be a hero" line on fliers for years, the World Trade center towers would probably still be standing.

      Overall, I would say that TSA style pat-downs aren't necessary at all simply by looking at the numbers. The potential payoff in saved lives just doesn't seem worth it. Not even US society has traditionally been that risk-averse, but people are strange. It's like child disappearances and murders. Some of them get days, weeks, months or years of media coverage. But when they show you the statistics, you realize that those are just the tip of the iceburg. The reason is that people can't care about everything, there's just too much, they have to instead focus on certain representative cases and pour their emotion into those. Then there's a concentrating effect as that sort of thing travels up the layers of power driven partly by normal human principles as well as by cynical manipulation for personal gain (but I repeat myself).

    46. Re:Huh? by tragedy · · Score: 1

      Maybe it's just me, but it looked more like a crosshatched pattern of purple and white to me in the picture. Not pink.

    47. Re:Huh? by Tragek · · Score: 1

      Damn I wish I had mod points.

      Hear hear!

    48. Re:Huh? by tragedy · · Score: 1

      Probably because the little humorous "I'm on your side" comment falls a little flat from the person heading the executive and who is therefore, provided the buck actually stops there, the one responsible for it. If the President needs to get a pat-down or be irradiated before getting on a plane, it's news to me. Similarly, we don't appreciate comments about how expensive it is to shop for the holidays from the boss who just cut our Christmas bonus. It's in really poor taste.

    49. Re:Huh? by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      Unless those things aren't actually crazy.

      She apparently thinks Intelligent Design should be taught in science classes and wants a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage because homosexuals are "targeting children".

      Crazy. Doesn't look to be any crazier than most of her right-wing peers, but still crazy.

    50. Re:Huh? by man_of_mr_e · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'm not sure if you're from Minnesota or not, but those of us who are have a long history with her saying stupid shit. For example, she advocated criminal action by refusing to fill out census forms and refusing to answer census takers questions. This was even more stupid (for her), since her very job depended on census results as Minnesota was close to losing a congressional district, and hers was the likely one on the chopping block. Nevermind that that taking a census is a constitutionally mandated activity... so much for her beliefs in the founding fathers intentions.

      Oh, and her recent claim that the founding fathers were against slavery, and "worked tirelessly" to get rid of it were another one. Hell, she even claimed John Quincy Adams was a founding father, which would be kind of difficult since he was 9 years old when the constitution was signed, although it's possible he may have used his father as a puppet to do his bidding....

      All politicians occasionally make off the cuff remarks that wrong, but this wasn't one of those times.. it was part of her rehearsed speech. She *INTENDED* to say these things that were not only flat out wrong, but so ignorant of the very thing she's claiming to represent... history and the constitution.

      You don't have to be liberal to think she's a kook. I'm not. At all. You do, however, have to be fucked in the head to admire her, other than her uncanny ability to get re-elected.

    51. Re:Huh? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      We demean everyone in the Republican Party. You just object more when we are demeaning the women. Why are you hiding behind women? Afraid to fight your battles yourself?

    52. Re:Huh? by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      The potential payoff in saved lives just doesn't seem worth it.

      Particularly when that payoff in saved lives A. hasn't materialized, and B. results in a commensurate loss of lives due to elevated cancer risk resulting from the use of full body X-ray scanners.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    53. Re:Huh? by Rei · · Score: 2

      Agreed completely.

      For example, his criticism of Obama's admission that a lot of the old manufacturing jobs are gone and are never coming back, and that we need to lead through tech and innovation:

      ---
      If you think about it, this is the biggest outrage of the speech, because America used to make our living by manufacturing. I liked how this sounds, but on further consideration, it feels like we’re conceding manufacturing prowess to other nations. Since manufacturing fuels jobs, that’s a serious problem.
      ---

      America "used" to make our living by manufacturing because America was one of the few places in the world that had the factories and manufacturing/transportation infrastructure needed to produce things effectively. China was a land of starving peasants scratching away at the land with handmade tools. But third-world countries today have started building up the necessary infrastructure (power, water, roads, communication, etc) and buying the necessary equipment for mass-production (augmenting it with a bountiful, cheap labor supply). Nowadays, the limiting factor on low-tech production is wages. So sure, we could "make a living by manufacturing" those goods, but we'd have to compete with China and India on wages. Anyone here really support that idea? Dropping our wages to China and India's level?

      Now, what we can do is exactly what the president said: innovation and technology. And this can even be applied to manufacturing. Wherein we can scale up production rates and decrease production costs using technology as opposed to manual labor sufficiently, we can actually bring back production to the US. But simply trying to force it back to the US with trade policies isn't going to work well. We may not be able to compete in the field of manually screwing the caps on tubes of toothpaste any more, but we can compete in the field of making toothpaste cap-screwing machines. This applies to other things we've been losing as well, such as mining and agriculture.

      Now, an interesting thing to think about is the long-term picture. As China and India's wages rise, they become less competitive in the low-tech manufacturing field versus the slower-to-develop third-world nations. They're already starting to feel the force of this, and have been making a push to get into higher tech production. *That* is real competition for the future. And that is what we have to face head-on.

      --
      ... in Siberia, where Putin killed a fish with a speargun. He later claimed it was killed by Ukrainian separatists.
    54. Re:Huh? by operagost · · Score: 0

      I did like the author's take on the energy independence statement. He compared it to Kennedy's vow to put a man on the moon by the end of the decade. He wasn't around to see it, of course, but with a timeline of ten years he remained accountable for the results and in fact we achieved the goal he set by 1969. Weasels set knowingly unattainable goals out in the far future so that if everything goes to hell, they can blame it on their successors. Meanwhile, we have to suffer with ridiculous subsidies and policies that just kill our economy and ruin people's lives without achieving anything.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    55. Re:Huh? by lgw · · Score: 1

      Planes can't be redirected into office buildings either - not ever again (not even the last time it was tried on 9/11, but the stronger cockpit doors were an improvement). TSA groping serves no security purpose at all. Basic pre-TSA metal detectors and baggae X-Ray prodives all the security we're going to get. The rest is just totalitarianism for the sake of totalitarianism - which sadly most people seem to be OK with.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    56. Re:Huh? by lgw · · Score: 1

      China is losing jobs to robots faster than we are losing jobs to China, and many of those robots are back in America. We do still have a significant manufacturing base, even though far too much is still made overseas we make quite a bit here. What we don't have is a lot of manufacturing jobs here, and that's just the inevitable march of progress.

      Also, Walmart isn't popular for their high quality products - they're very cheap. America as a whole saves far more from cheap imports than we lose in offshored revenue.

      That's just what "technology" looks like: products get cheaper, becuase fewer people are employed in making them, so we invent more new products to sell. We will eventually reach the point where almost no one is employed in growing or making things, and almost all the jobs are in design, service, and entertainment. That won't be a catastrophe.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    57. Re:Huh? by Rei · · Score: 1

      Oh, and who could forget:

      "President Obama seemed to be drawing the lines in the illegal immigration fight. He says he wants to work with Congress to deal with the illegal immigration issue once and for all, to secure our borders and handle the problem. But he says he wants to “stop expelling talented young people” who come from other countries (legally or not), got degrees here, and then take them back home.

      My take: It’s a point, but then those people compete against Americans right here for our jobs"

      They're Taking Our Jooobbbs!!!!! ;)

      Why don't we require Economics 101 of our youth? The economy is not a zero-sum game. Money is an IOU, given to you to secure the outputs of your labor, that entitles you to the outputs of someone else's labor (aka, a quality of living). Work creates jobs. People spend their "IOU" on the output of others' labor, creating additional demand for that kind of labor.

      Now, one can critique immigrants on a variety of grounds -- for example, that they often send some money home to help their families elsewhere rather than spending it all here. But the overall economic impact of a well-educated and/or hard-working immigrant on our economy is very positive. We don't want people coming to our shores or crossing our borders to leach off of the labor of others. But to work, hard? That *helps* us.

      Plus, Obama's main criticism wasn't even what the author portrayed. In addition to trying to retain people who come here on F1 student visas (aka, educated people -- good economic drivers who, by the way, are NOT illegal immigrants), Obama was pushing the DREAM act: supporting the naturalization of *children* of parents who crossed the border illegally with them when they were little. These people grew up here and are generally fully Americanized, have family here, friends, work, etc, but don't have citizenship. I know one family who came to the US legally on a work Visa with their young children, but it eventually expired. The family they had everything up here (a house, a job, friends, etc) and nothing to go back to. They stayed, hoping for the day they'd get the chance to be naturalized. The kids grew up in the US and know nothing of their home country apart from what their parents told them. The kids are as American as anyone else here. Except on paper.

      --
      ... in Siberia, where Putin killed a fish with a speargun. He later claimed it was killed by Ukrainian separatists.
    58. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a techie, I am outraged by ties. They make no sense whatsoever.

    59. Re:Huh? by Degro · · Score: 1

      Didn't you see the headline? You don't have to read anything, just be outraged as a techie!

    60. Re:Huh? by Totenglocke · · Score: 1

      Exactly. People always want to talk about how "evil" businesses or politicians outsourced manufacturing jobs, but it was really the workers themselves demanding too high of wages. Sure, 60 years ago manufacturing was a decent paying job compared to other options. Now though, it's not because high paying jobs require skilled labor, not unskilled labor. Expecting a job on an assembly line to pay as much as a job that required several years of extensive education in math and other sciences is ludicrous, but that's what the people demanded - so they took the jobs to people who were more reasonable about their pay. Long term, as poor countries grow and see increased wages, we'll eventually see a balance where wages are pretty much the same all over the world - and yes, that does mean that wages in the US will likely come down (by how much is too early to say).

      It actually parallels the American auto industry very well - decades ago they have virtually no competition so pay was high because they could afford to inflate prices due to consumers lack of options. Once there was competition though, wages couldn't stay at that high of a level because other companies would undercut them on price and take their business. Two of the three US car companies couldn't adapt to the new market and went bankrupt. The same is going on with manufacturing in general - you either have to adapt to the new competition or lose out.

      --
      "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
    61. Re:Huh? by Americano · · Score: 2

      "I can see Russia from my backyard." -- Palin (R) Alaska

      You're either misattributing that quote, or you're intentionally lying about what she said in an attempt to discredit her - a task which, to be fair, she does adequately without requiring misquotes to do so. I'll be charitable and assume it's the former, and FTFY:

      "I can see Russia from my backyard." -- Fey (Comedian), Saturday Night Live

      Now, if you're interested in what Ms. Palin actually had to say in her interview with Charlie Gibson, then that quote would read:

      GIBSON: What insight into Russian actions, particularly in the last couple of weeks, does the proximity of the state give you?

      PALIN: They're our next door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska.

      Ms. Palin's actual answer to his question was vague, uninspired, and showed no grasp of the issue he was quizzing her on, but if you're going to sling around quotes with your insults, at least get the fucking quote right.

    62. Re:Huh? by tragedy · · Score: 1

      Yes, I actually intended to put "theoretical" before that "potential".

    63. Re:Huh? by Urban+Nightmare · · Score: 1

      If any of you think that the TSA won't wiggle their way into secure zone of a trans station, think again. All it will take is just a small mention of a pending attach and bang... TSA will be scanning you at Grand Central. The only reason they are not doing sub ways is because they are controlled by the city and don't cross state lines. They don't do freight trains because there are no passengers to feel up. And finally they can't justify using the TSA on current passenger trains because they just aren't popular enough. The TSA only exists for one reason. To create more TSA employees. They have no interest in keeping people safe.

      --
      Trains good...Planes bad.

    64. Re:Huh? by Velex · · Score: 1

      We don't want people coming to our shores or crossing our borders to leach off of the labor of others.

      What I have never understood about this whole hysterical debate about illegal immigration, or immigration in general, is why doesn't anyone ask this: what loopholes are these illegal aliens exploiting? Why can't we just deny hospital service, welfare, food stamps, etc to illegal aliens? Perhaps I have a bit inhumane suggestion as far as hospital service goes, and rather arbitrary in a "capitalist" medical system, but who's letting them leech?

      --
      Join the Slashcott! Stay away entirely Feb 10 thru Feb 17! Close all tabs to prevent autorefresh!
    65. Re:Huh? by Velex · · Score: 2

      I hate to reply to my own comment, but doesn't Lady Liberty say (figuratively), "Give me your tired, your poor/Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free?"

      I mean, in a free market, don't you want all the actors you can get? Why do we even have social services that WE can leech off but we must deny to THEM? Why do we even have welfare, food stamps, etc?

      That's a serious question. I used to know the answer when I was a young man, but now I don't know anymore.

      --
      Join the Slashcott! Stay away entirely Feb 10 thru Feb 17! Close all tabs to prevent autorefresh!
    66. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One final thought, if I might.

      When you left the house this morning wearing that tie, perhaps your wife stopped you in the doorway. Perhaps she told you how good you look in that tie, how handsome it was.

      Now, while I’m sure you love your wife, might I suggest you have many reasons to distrust her judgment about that tie. Maybe she has a fond memory of another time you wore it, a sentimental attachment. Or perhaps she knows your tie collection and she’s simply glad you didn’t choose one of the ties she dislikes. Perhaps she just sensed you were feeling a little fragile; she felt like bucking you up a bit.

      Now, imagine for a minute, you sit down here with us, and I say to you how much I admire that tie. Instantly, you have another opinion, but you don’t know me. There’s nothing personal between us. We have no sartorial history, no emotional attachment.

      Whose judgment are you going to trust? Mine or your wife’s?

    67. Re:Huh? by HereIAmJH · · Score: 1

      These people grew up here and are generally fully Americanized, have family here, friends, work, etc, but don't have citizenship. I know one family who came to the US legally on a work Visa with their young children, but it eventually expired. The family they had everything up here (a house, a job, friends, etc) and nothing to go back to.

      I was just reading a local story like that. A man was brought to the US by his parents at age six, and has lived here for 20 years. He is married, has three kids, a steady job and owns his home. And is now scheduled to be deported to a country he has never known. He's not a legal citizen, but seems to be a better example than some prominent Americans. I say we keep him and his family and deport the entire Westboro clan.

      --
      Another day, another update to a Google android app.
    68. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why can't we just deny hospital service, welfare, food stamps, etc to illegal aliens?

      We do, genius.

      Undocumented immigrants cannot get welfare, food stamps or anything beyond education for their kids (because educating illegal immigrants' kids is preferable to having them running the streets). We don't punish kids for the criminal acts of their parents.

      As far as hospital services, there is a social benefit to treating sick people. Having folks drop dead in the street is not really healthy for the rest of us.

    69. Re:Huh? by Falconhell · · Score: 1

      Actually as an outsidie observer it seems to me that republican women do a fine job of demeaning themselves without any assistance.

      They all sound like raving loonies!

    70. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "'We have trade missions back and forth. We-- we do-- it's very important when you consider even national security issues with Russia as Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where-- where do they go? It's Alaska. It's just right over the border. It is-- from Alaska that we send those out to make sure that an eye is being kept on this very powerful nation, Russia, because they are right there. They are right next to-- to our state." - Sarah Palin, Governor of Alaska and Republican vice-presidential nominee.

      Palin was quoted in an interview for CBS speaking Thursday about her foreign policy experience and the proximity of Russia to Alaska.

      She's also said:

      "But obviously, we've got to stand with our North Korean allies." --Sarah Palin, after being asked how she would handle the current hostilities between the two Koreas, interview on Glenn Beck's radio show, Nov. 24, 2010

    71. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "He said "People." You're thinking of "Jugs.""

      I'll take a pair of "jugs" over "ears" with nothing between them except how to spend other people's money and remove their freedoms along with the nation's sovereignty anytime.

    72. Re:Huh? by vux984 · · Score: 1

      TSA pat-downs are less necessary for trains than planes simply because trains can't be redirected into, say, large office buildings or nuclear plants. They're kind of stuck on the rails.

      So what. You get the people on the trains, and the destroying the rail infrastructure itself is highly effective.

      The local commuter train "West Coast Express" carried 2970 people in a single load during the recent Winter Olympics. That's more people than died in total in the 9/11 attacks (not counting first responders who have died since). Granted that's not a particularly fast train, and a 100% fatality in a wreck might not be likely.

      But the Japanese Shinkasen high speed train has a capcity of 1634 *seated* passengers and double that at max 'standing room' capacity. That's 3200+ people at 200km/h...

      Seriously. You DON'T have to hijack multiple jumbo jets and fly them into sky scrapers to kill lots of people.

    73. Re:Huh? by Totenglocke · · Score: 1, Troll
      I know I'll get flamed to hell for this and modded down, but fuck it, I've got more than enough karma and it needs to be said.

      Obama was pushing the DREAM act: supporting the naturalization of *children* of parents who crossed the border illegally with them when they were little. These people grew up here and are generally fully Americanized, have family here, friends, work, etc, but don't have citizenship. I know one family who came to the US legally on a work Visa with their young children, but it eventually expired. The family they had everything up here (a house, a job, friends, etc) and nothing to go back to. They stayed, hoping for the day they'd get the chance to be naturalized. The kids grew up in the US and know nothing of their home country apart from what their parents told them.

      So? They're still illegals and should be deported. It's laughable that in any other country you're looking at (minimum) a rather unpleasant stay in jail for being there illegally, yet the US is supposed to hug illegals and make them citizens. The parents knew full well what they were doing and the kids (if they're late teens or older) are well aware that they are illegal and could have either voluntarily gone back or turned themselves in and explained the circumstances. Claiming that they (the older ones) shouldn't be held responsible for willingly going along with a crime is absolutely not an excuse.

      The family you're talking about knew perfectly well that they wouldn't magically be made citizens by overstaying their visa and were well aware it was a crime. Now you think they should be rewarded for it? Imagine if this was any other crime - say theft. Would you think it's OK for them to keep stealing and hoping for the day the statue of limitations runs out or for the President to pardon all thieves? I doubt so.

      The kids are as American as anyone else here. Except on paper.

      And also except for the fact that they don't pay taxes (and never will), have to steal someone else's Social Security number to get a job / go to college, etc. I'm all for allowing educated immigrants to follow a vetting process (to make sure that they're not a criminal and such) then after they're here a naturalization process to educate them on our laws and language, all of which has minimal paperwork and short queues. However, telling people who intentionally violated the US Constitution and often committed several other severe crimes as well that they're forgiven and everything is good because "it's mean" to send them back where they came from is ridiculous.

      --
      "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
    74. Re:Huh? by theaveng · · Score: 1

      >>>For example, she advocated criminal action by refusing to fill out census forms and refusing to answer census takers questions.

      Ditto Ron Paul and most Libertarians.
      Why?
      Because the census questions violate the Bill of Rights, sections 9 and 10. The only legal question is, "How many people live at this address?" for the purpose of enumeration. Any other questions about your income, color, sex, and so on violates our 9th and 10th Amendment rights. (Rights are reserved to the People... Congress shall not exercise powers never given to it.)
      .

      >>>her recent claim that the founding fathers were against slavery, and "worked tirelessly" to get rid of it were another one.

      But that's true. Slavery was outlawed in every State north of Maryland immediately in 1776. The first president of the Congress was a black man. And down south, Thomas Jefferson and James Madison submitted numerous bills to have slavery banned in Virginia.

      Even in the Constitution itself, slavery states were punished by only counting slaves as 3/5th people... thereby giving these states fewer votes in the central government. It was also a way to encourage the slave states to free blacks and thereby increase their Congressional representation by +20% (approximately). As black man Frederick Douglas observed: The Constitution is an ANTI-slavery document.
      .

      >>>All politicians occasionally make off the cuff remarks that wrong, but this wasn't one of those times..

      They sure do. For example President Obama said "corpsemen" on multiple occasions. Does that mean he's stupid? No. Neither does it mean Bachman is stupid. As you say, sometimes politicians make mistakes.

      Of course at this point you'll probably explain why it's okay for Obama to make a mistakes because he's Democrat, but is his name was Bush you'd compare him to a chimp.

      BTW both parties suck.
      I joined a third party long ago.
      Only fools pledge allegiance to the liars in the Republicrat Duopoly.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    75. Re:Huh? by theaveng · · Score: 1

      Michele Bachmann (yes, that crazy, crazy bitch)

      Michelle Bachman is one of the few politicians I trust (along with Ron Paul). Your comment that she is a "crazy bitch" is not only teeny-bopperish, but also an anti-woman sexist remark (comparing a woman to a dog). It says more about the SPEAKER than the target - i.e. you're immature.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    76. Re:Huh? by theolein · · Score: 1

      David Gerwitz was getting outraged by a speech by Barak Hussein Obama. How surprising.....

    77. Re:Huh? by Miamicanes · · Score: 2

      Not to mention, passengers in a train have self-help options in the event of catastrophe that passengers in a plane lack. They might or might not be useful, but as a practical matter, if you're on a 747 that gets blown in half 3 miles up, and by virtue of being in the rear tail section that gets blown away, well... you'll get to have 3-5 terrifying additional minutes of life that your fellow passengers didn't. Ultimately, though, you're as screwed as the rest of them. In contrast, if you're a passenger on a train that gets blown in half and your part skids away from the rest... well, you might actually live to tell about it.

      There's also the fact that American passenger trains are slightly unique. By law, they have to be rolling bank vaults capable of surviving a head-on collision with a mile-long freight train. 99.9% of the time, that's stupid and bad, but when things like explosives get involved, it *does* tend to come in handy.

      The main problem with recent (past year or two) HSR proposals is that they take a generally good thing, then ruin it by demanding an expensive level of immediate perfection that will ultimately keep it from ever really succeeding by virtue of both cost and limited scope. Take Florida. By all means, build the tracks between Orlando and Tampa to 220mph HSR standards. They're going to be around for a really long time, and it's worthwhile to do that particular job right the first time around. It won't raise the cost by much, and it'll seriously reduce the construction misery 25 years from now when the higher-grade of trackwork is *really* needed. On the other hand, fuck the electrification and trainsets that do 180mph, but can ONLY run on their dedicated, purpose-built tracks like a big amusement park ride. By all means, design the tracks to be electrified *later*, but for now, stick with diesel. You *don't* electrify a rail line that has one train per hour in each direction. It's economically insane. Not even the former Soviet Union was *that* crazy (at least, on a large scale; I'm sure there were a few tracks here and there that were electrified for the sake of politics, but I'm pretty sure the Trans-Siberian Railroad STILL isn't fully-electrified all the way to the Pacific). Instead, connect the new track (which HAS to be built for any kind of meaningful passenger service to Tampa from either Orlando or Miami, because the last 20 miles of existing track into Tampa ARE very, very intensively used by CSX for freight) to the existing CSX tracks from Auburndale down to West Palm Beach (which are almost commercially useless for freight), build a second, new track alongside it, and use the cash that WOULD have gone to run semi-useless 180mph trans back and forth between Tampa and Orlando to build a useful passenger rail network with 100-110mph average speeds between Miami, Orlando, and Tampa... maybe even Jacksonville a year or five later. FDOT has studies dating back to before most of us were born that have credibly concluded that 80-110mph passenger service in Florida wouldn't just pay for itself... it would make a real, honest to god outright *profit*. Those same studies invariably conclude that "real" HSR would hemorrhage money forever, mostly because the interest on the construction bonds used to finance the staggering up-front construction costs would crush any hope of it ever achieving financial viability. Florida's politicians need to realize... trainsets are a 20-30 year investment, but trackbed and right of way are forever. It's easy to electrify an existing rail line 25 years later. It's damn hard and expensive to try and straighten out curves after the fact.

      Put another way:

      * No-compromise "True" HSR between only Orlando and Tampa: crushingly expensive and minimally-useful.

      * No-compromise "true" HSR between Miami, Orlando, and Tampa, built NOW: very, very nice... but it would bankrupt FDOT, and would more or less forever write off service to Jacksonville and southwest Florida, let alone Tallahassee (Tallahassee's problematic, just because it's so freakin'

    78. Re:Huh? by Americano · · Score: 1

      Thanks for providing some other quotes from Ms. Palin. I'm sure you can find numerous silly statements, she gets a lot of press, and she's not exactly known for her deeply insightful commentary.

      None of which change the fact, however, that she never said, "I can see Russia from my backyard." That comment was made by a comedian, Tina Fey, on a tv show, Saturday Night Live. It was a funny bit, and I enjoyed it thoroughly. I also am able to distinguish between Ms. Fey's impressions of Ms. Palin, and the things Ms. Palin has actually said.

      Ms. Palin's comments about Alaska's proximity to Russian soil are technically accurate, even if they don't address the point of the questions she's answering: some parts of Russia *are* quite close to some parts of Alaska. That fact doesn't do anything to suggest that she has some sort of foreign policy experience or expertise in diplomatic dealings with Russia, but her statement is an accurate representation of geography. This is something even the most green Slashdotter should know, as here on Slashdot, we value pedantic correctness above just about anything else.

      The problem is, rather than address the very real shortcomings she has as a politician, people just smugly repeat this catchphrase that she never said. This distracts from any message which is critical of her in much the same way that attributing Dave Chappelle's "I'm Rick James, bitch!" catchphrase to Pres. Obama wouldn't add anything interesting, substantial, or factual to any debate about his qualifications or capabilities as a presidential candidate, or as the President.

    79. Re:Huh? by bankman · · Score: 1

      Not to mention that his final "outrage" was a dude's tie. Seriously? It's a fucking tie. It's fucking cosmetic. If someone wears a tie that wouldn't have been your choice, shut the fuck up and dislike their tie in quiet. Considering that the author previously (and correctly) picked on the immaturity of Congress members, the immature action of calling someone's tie an "outrage" is highly ironic.

      Dude! The tie was pink...

      --
      I feel so sig.
    80. Re:Huh? by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      And if you'd read the fine article, you would have realized that's a quote from the article.

      That's not the parent to your post who wrote that, it's David Gewirtz, the author of the piece of crap article.

      But to directly address your point... I don't know if Bachman is a bitch, I don't know her personally. I do think she's off the wall... Crazy? Maybe. Out in left field on a lot of things? Certainly.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    81. Re:Huh? by Aryden · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry, I was making what should have been worded more correctly as a humorous rejoinder to HiMorons' comment.

    82. Re:Huh? by bored · · Score: 1

      Now, what we can do is exactly what the president said: innovation and technology.

      Strange, but I find the raw difference in population in China or India vs the US, to basically translate to the fact that for every single smart driven person here in the US innovating something there will be 10 of them in india/china doing exactly the same thing. Just given the shear number of engineers that china has been graduating vs the US, its an unstoppable reality that within a few years they will be doing the design work too. While our politicians blow smoke up our asses, the Chinese have been gaming the system. As long as that lasts, I believe the sucking sound in the US will continue.

    83. Re:Huh? by bored · · Score: 1

      Bah, go watch the transportation oversight meeting in the senate last year. The TSA has already said that they intend to start implementing more security on subways/trains similar to what is in airports. I watched it live, and I have yet to hear a single person in the traditional news point out what was actually said in that meeting.

    84. Re:Huh? by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Trains are hard to divert to Cuba, but they're really, really, really easy to derail.

      They're not THAT easy to derail. If terrorists taking control of a train is a problem, this is easily solved by putting an override in the system, so that operators at a central control station can take over the train when necessary and make it slow down.

      For obvious reasons, this isn't such a great idea with aircraft (long-distance wireless links and all), but with trains it's pretty easy to do since it's confined to the rails, and probably gets power from the rails too.

      What's more, even if a train derails, there's only so much damage it can do. Mostly, it's just going to mess up the train. High-speed trains don't usually run very close to buildings. Remember in 9/11, the terrorists' goals were not to destroy planeloads of people, but to destroy entire large buildings. Destroying the planes was just a small bonus. There's no way train hijackers could ever do such a thing.

      Now the proper thing to do is overwhelm the hijackers with superior numbers. A small group of hijackers with boxcutters and a fake bomb aren't going to be able to take over a plane again. If they hadn't been pushing the "don't be a hero" line on fliers for years, the World Trade center towers would probably still be standing.

      Exactly.

    85. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Undocumented immigrants cannot get welfare, food stamps"

      Hey, "genius".

      Why do you think there's such a huge underground document-forging industry associated with illegal aliens? If a cop can't even check anyone's immigration status except under very limited circumstances, how much follow-up checking work do you think is done by some social worker at the local social services office?

      Progressives pose as being sooo concerned with the poor, yet they encourage & defend a system that allows illegal immigrants to effectively become a slave-class, being paid a fraction of legal wages, living in squalid conditions, and victimized by those "employing" them, as well as those coyotes that bring them in for labor exploitation.

      This is simply a continuation of their history of policies like opposing civil rights legislation for blacks, defending school segregation, rounding up in concentration camps those of other races, arresting political opposition, and on and on. This is all a matter of historical fact. I lived through some of it.

      To Progressives, livestock is livestock whether they have four legs & hooves or two legs & an anchor-baby. Being complicit in turning an impoverished and desperate population into second-class labor and fighting to maintain their status quot for decades is not protecting their rights.

      It is exploitation most foul of the poor, desperate, and starving people of another race for their own economic and political gain.

    86. Re:Huh? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      The speech is an advertisement and a political statement. Because it is the most-watched presidential speech of the year, it has become nothing more than political posturing. This has been true recently for both Democratic and Republican presidents.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    87. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "TSA pat-downs are less necessary for trains"

      Probably not THAT much less necessary in the TSA's eyes for much longer if this video taken at a rail station is any indicator.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2taqlvOlzx0

      The TSA goons refuse to give out their names, badge numbers, business cards (even though the video reveals one officer with a card in his notebook) or any reasons for why they're there.

      Do really believe that the TSA's current powers and jurisdictional areas will remain static?

      Yay for mission-creep, more public-sector union jobs, and taxpayer-funded public-sector union pensions, not to mention an expanded market for future production runs of the latest & greatest full-body scanners!

    88. Re:Huh? by tombeard · · Score: 1

      Then why search bags on the NYC subways? Don't bother answering, we all know why. Same reason they will harass train passengers and set up check points on the interstate. In 50 years not even the hiking trails will offer free passage to american sheep. Keep your internal passport handy and don't try to leave w/o an exit visa.

      --
      The reason we subjugate ourselves to law is to better procure justice. If law does not accomplish this purpose then it m
    89. Re:Huh? by tragedy · · Score: 1

      For anyone willing to put the effort in, trains obviously are very easy to derail. All it takes is cutting out a section of rail on a curve which can easily be done by anyone with power tools. Someone putting in more effort could even bend the rails or insert a pre-bent section of rail that they brought with them.

      As for a remote override on the system, that could be done, but would probably be just as likely to be exploited as to be useful. Same reason a remote override on planes might be a bad idea. As for powered rails... That only happens in subway systems. Trains can consume a heap of power, sending enough along the rails means that touching them is fatal, so it's not something you can use everywhere. There's overhead power wires like in trolley systems, but you need a lot of power like I said. You'd need really thick cables and a short would be very bad. Pretty much all trains that go a decent distance have big diesel engines. From what I've heard, the rails often do have a current run through them in places regardless, but it's just enough so that an approaching train will break the circuit and make the barriers drop. Although, systems like that may be outdated. They probably all use pressure sensors and/or wireless signaling now.

      A terrorist takeover of a train would be easy, but it's also true that there's not much that they could do with it once they've got it except take hostages, which they could do in something that isn't moving. So, as a target, the more likely thing is derailment or blowing up some particularly nasty and/or valuable cargo. Although, if they were aiming for derailment, they might want to sabotage the brakes and ramp up the speed.

      As for the damage a derailed train can do, don't forget that trains towing a hundred cars aren't that unusual. Loaded up, that's in the neighborhood of 10,000 tons. A moving train has a tremendous amount of energy behind it and could probably be made to go a very long distance without rails. They also travel through lots of sensitive industrial areas, etc.

      Overall a plane is certainly much more versatile than a plane. For simple acts of terrorism, however, a train is probably a much softer target since the rails are so vulnerable.

    90. Re:Huh? by Noughmad · · Score: 1

      Actually, that one successful attempt from almost 10 years ago is still working.

      --
      PlusFive Slashdot reader for Android. Can post comments.
    91. Re:Huh? by scheme · · Score: 1

      And also except for the fact that they don't pay taxes (and never will), have to steal someone else's Social Security number to get a job / go to college, etc.

      Most undocumented pay taxes but never file tax returns to get refunds or claim social security benefits/unemployment/etc. The net effect is to pay much more in taxes than services that they used. If you think about it, you contradict yourself in your statement. If someone is using someone else's social security number to get a job then FICA/social security/payroll and other state and federal taxes are being paid. Of course, the person won't ever try to claim the benefits to avoid being caught.

      --
      "When you sit with a nice girl for two hours, it seems like two minutes. When you sit on a hot stove for two minutes, it
    92. Re:Huh? by mcvos · · Score: 1

      So sure, we could "make a living by manufacturing" those goods, but we'd have to compete with China and India on wages. Anyone here really support that idea? Dropping our wages to China and India's level?

      It's possible to make labour a lot cheaper without reducing the income of workers. Remove tax on labour, and replace it with tax on the use of scarce resources (natural resources, land, clean air/water, etc). Everything that by using it, you deny to others (including future generations), should be taxed. Use that tax to replace income tax, and also levy that same tax on goods imported from countries that don't tax the use of scarce resources.

      China and India will still be cheaper, but not by as much as they currently are. And at the same time, you're rewarding sustainable energy, production, etc, not just in your own country, but all around the world.

    93. Re:Huh? by phlinn · · Score: 1

      We aren't losing manufacturing capacity, just manufacturing jobs.

      --
      "Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny! Free men pull in all sorts of directions" -- Havelock Vetinari
    94. Re:Huh? by operagost · · Score: 1

      I did like the author's take on the energy independence statement. He compared it to Kennedy's vow to put a man on the moon by the end of the decade. He wasn't around to see it, of course, but with a timeline of ten years he remained accountable for the results and in fact we achieved the goal he set by 1969. Weasels set knowingly unattainable goals out in the far future so that if everything goes to hell, they can blame it on their successors. Meanwhile, we have to suffer with ridiculous subsidies and policies that just kill our economy and ruin people's lives without achieving anything.
      Reposted due to an even worse weasel modding it down.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    95. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Read the top line, ZDNET Politics. It was not a technical article. It was a tech pundit's take on what might be important.

    96. Re:Huh? by man_of_mr_e · · Score: 1

      Because the census questions violate the Bill of Rights, sections 9 and 10. The only legal question is, "How many people live at this address?" for the purpose of enumeration. Any other questions about your income, color, sex, and so on violates our 9th and 10th Amendment rights. (Rights are reserved to the People... Congress shall not exercise powers never given to it.)

      The 9th and 10th ammendments? Are you serious? All those ammendments state is that rights given by the constitution shouldn't be deemed to limit other rights. The 10th ammendment makes no mention of rights, but refers to congressional powers. A "power" is, for example, the power to collect taxes, or the power to enumerate the people.

      The problem with your interpretation is that it's unconstitutional. Yep, that's right. Section 8, clause 18 of the constitution says "The Congress shall have Power - To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.", which basically says that congress can specify the way, and manner of which all powers can be executed, which includes making laws that ask about pretty much anything they want that doesn't expressly violate the constitution (that is, things that are specifically denied).

      You can't take any fragment of the constitution (or any law for that matter) at face value, alone in a vacuum. Everything is influenced by other laws or constitutional sections.

      Oh, and the really stupid part, was that those questions you refer to.. were actually removed from the census several years before Bachman suggested boycotting the census because of them. They were moved to the American Community Survey, which is optional. But hey, don't let the facts get in the way of a good argument (or chance to get your face on TV).

      But that's true. Slavery was outlawed in every State north of Maryland immediately in 1776. The first president of the Congress was a black man. And down south, Thomas Jefferson and James Madison submitted numerous bills to have slavery banned in Virginia.

      Thomas Jefferson owned slaves, until his death. For someone that was so against it, why did he continue to own them? The answer is that he wasn't anti-slavery, he was actually anti-black. He believed that slavery should be ended, because he wanted all blacks to be sent back to africa. While he was vocal about ending slavery from about 1778 to 1785, after 1785 he never brought it up again. Ever.

      See: http://www.monticello.org/site/plantation-and-slavery/thomas-jefferson-and-slavery

      This certainly does not paint a picture of someone that "worked tirelessly" to end slavery, and he was basically one of the very few founding fathers who ever did anything about it.

      And the first president of the Congress was Peyton Randolph, a white plantation owner that owned slaves. Where the hell did you come up with that one? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_Continental_Congress

      Also, your history of the states "north of maryland" is creative to say the least. For instance, New York did not abolish slavery until 1785, and it had nothing to do with the founding fathers. Even then, it wasn't completely abolished, as only children of slaves born after 1785 were emancipated, leaving their parents and siblings born before 1785 to continue in slavery until they died. Even worse, slavery was not ended in New Hampshire until 1857! Although it was generally considered unacceptable to own them it was still legal until then.

      I'm sure you won't believe me, but here is the reference anyways http://www.slavenorth.com/ne

    97. Re:Huh? by man_of_mr_e · · Score: 1

      By the way, regarding the "first black man", I think you meant "The first President", not the first president of congress. However, this is a myth. The myth is that John Hanson was a black man (A moor), but he was not. He was a white man.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hanson

      The confusion seems to come from Senator John Hanson, who was a black man, but lived 100 years later.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hanson_(Liberia)

    98. Re:Huh? by commodore6502 · · Score: 1

      I have a right to privacy - i.e. Not tell the government how much money I make, per the 9th amendment.

      And the 10th Amendment gives the US power to ENUMERATE i.e. count for the purpose of giving every ~300,000 persons 1 representative in the House. Nothing more. It has zero power to demand how much cash I make, my skin color, and so on. Per the 10th.

      Your interpretation would give the US Government unlimited power and place us under a tyranny with no bounds. You are a fool to embrace such a philosophy. Have you learned *nothing* from history?

      During the last hundred years, over 150 million citizens were killed by their *own* governments, because the governments had no limits on their power to execute, spy, or enslave the people underneath them.

      --
      Information wants to be expensive AND wants to be free. So you have Value vs. Cheap distribution fighting each other.
  3. Re:The Prince by mark72005 · · Score: 1

    tldr

  4. Yeah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Too bad the Slashdot redesign didn't include new story editors.....

  5. Riduculous by X_DARK_X · · Score: 0, Interesting

    Wow, I didn't even bother to read past the first page. You Mr Gewirtz is an idiot. The era of being able to provide for your family by standing all day pushing a button, getting off at 4pm and drinking all night with buddies is over, Industrial revolution, is over. Your ideology is stupid. I think you are afraid that with out mfg jobs everyone will be a geek like you, and you wont be soo freaking special, you looser.

    1. Re:Riduculous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least he's special enough to spell "loser".
      (-:

    2. Re:Riduculous by stoolpigeon · · Score: 0

      loser
      looser is an adjective

      --
      It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
    3. Re:Riduculous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe he's an advocate of loose things. You know, loose women, loose clothes, making him a "looser."

    4. Re:Riduculous by skids · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You have an awfully low opinion of assembly line workers. I would encourage you to meet one. Then you'd appreciate the physical effort required to meet an extremely strict work schedule, and maintain attention and energy for an entire work day in less than comfortable conditions.

      Sure, it's not an intellectually demanding field, and we suffer an intelligence deficit as a result of most jobs not stimulating intellect, but these people worked hard for their meager pay.

      The real issue with manufacturing jobs is labor rights -- in other countries. By allowing manufacturing to go overseas we lose control over employers and they are free to create sweatshop conditions. There have been some good signs in that this issue is becoming an item often addressed in trade agreements, but keeping a manufacturing base here in this country is important so that we can continue to be good example of how to employ physical/dexterity labor without abusing workers.

      If we just let other countries with low standards completely take over manufacturing, there will be no progress towards more complex automation. Slaves are still cheaper for most tasks than either autonomous or piloted robot labor -- automation itself has not reached the economy of scale needed to truly end the need for "industrial revolution" style jobs. And AI will take longer than scaling up robot production, so there will be a need for piloting, and the world won't starve for lack of a few good "button pushers."

    5. Re:Riduculous by Aryden · · Score: 1

      I like how the European Union is handling bringing in employees from outside the EU. I recently applied for a position with a company in the EU and was denied due to the fact that they would have had to submit a nearly 800 page brief explaining why they were hiring an American instead of an EU citizen. In addition to some countries slapping some serious taxes on companies that are outsourcing labor. Tax it till they cant afford to hire outside labor anymore and it will either end, or they will leave that country which will make room for someone to take their place.

    6. Re:Riduculous by westlake · · Score: 1

      "You have an awfully low opinion of assembly line workers. I would encourage you to meet one. Then you'd appreciate the physical effort required to meet an extremely strict work schedule, and maintain attention and energy for an entire work day in less than comfortable conditions. Sure, it's not an intellectually demanding field, and we suffer an intelligence deficit as a result of most jobs not stimulating intellect, but these people worked hard for their meager pay."
       

      The pay wasn't always meager.

      "In 1914, believing that well-paid laborers are the best consumers, Henry Foird hiked his employees' wages from $2.34 for a nine-hour day to $5.00 for an eight-hour day. The move proved to be highly profitable. Instead of constant employee turnover, the most expert mechanics flocked to the company, raising productivity and reducing training costs. Ford called it the "wage motive." By 1916, as the price of the Model T fell to $360, sales reached 472,000

      By 1918, half of all the cars in America were Model Ts. By 1924, 15 million had been sold, Ford had become a multimillionaire, and Detroit was the auto-manufacturing capital of the United States. In 1928, Ford created the Model A to replace the Model T, and four years later introduced the V-8 engine. By 1932, Ford was producing one-third of all the automobiles in the world."

      You owe a lot to the assembly line worker:

      Shorter hours, the four and five day work week, paid vacations, health care and other employee benefits.

      There can be "intellectual stimulation" beyond work --- particularly when you aren't working yourself to physical and mental exhaustion.

      Ford's workers owned homes. Raised families. Played ball. Went fishing.

      Off the line they could be hobbyists or craftsmen. Who do you think built all those projects published in century-old magazines like "Popular Mechanics?"

      The Ford worker could afford a Ford of his own. With all the new-won independence that implies.

    7. Re:Riduculous by X_DARK_X · · Score: 0

      Yes they led a good life as the america's coffers were overflowing with gold coming from the European refugees, however, their life style was unsustainable. What ever achievements they made were insignificant to what could have been done if the culture was evolving into intellectually arousing direction instead of the car-crazy-burger-swallowing head-bashing-sports-a-rama which made Americans look like idiots to the rest of the world for.. well still are. So F*** the old timeys and their "American Dream", this is a new age, and I got a new American Dream, and in that dream, other countries get to form unions, and fight for equality, while we, as the "more mature" nation, develop the intellectual prowess needed for the next century.

    8. Re:Riduculous by cmarkn · · Score: 1

      The conditions of workers in sweatshops are not significantly different from the conditions in English and American factories at the beginning of industrialization. To get from those conditions to the ones we have now, the workers had to stand up for themselves against the bosses and the government. It was bloody business.

      I think it is important that the workers empower themselves, not have their workplace conditions dictated by government, their bosses, or, worst, a foreign government. Where you get the revolution part of the industrial revolution is when the workers realize that each of them have goals that may not be the same as their society's goals, and that their own goals matter.

      The only way someone can improve their life and work conditions is by seizing the power to make changes themselves, not by having change dictated. Only people who have taken power are people who are able to rule themselves. People who accept conditions given them, no matter how sweet those conditions are, are still working for the man and not living their own lives.

      --
      People should not fear their government. Governments should fear their people.
    9. Re:Riduculous by tombeard · · Score: 1

      luser, a noun
      FTFY. Please remember where you are posting. Someone my have a lart.

      --
      The reason we subjugate ourselves to law is to better procure justice. If law does not accomplish this purpose then it m
    10. Re:Riduculous by skids · · Score: 1

      Yes, so everyone seizes power, and then what? Bunches of uncoordinated individuals with power realize there's a better way to go about things than constantly stepping on each other's toes all day, decide to standardize things a bit, and suddenly -- government and/or union policies are born.

      Either that means we just cycle back to where we started, or you have an overly cynical view of the role of government.

      Just like the "bloodless revolution" we as a society should be growing out of the need to entirely destroy our own workplace protections and build them back from the ground up after we realize what we have done. I'm sure the more exploitative "business leaders" would love us all to throw off the "tyranny of the unions" so that they can have a monopoly on tyranny for however many years they get before the house of cards falls down.

      It's nice to go around idolizing rugged individualism, but the true heroes are the ones that can heal a sick system, not just wipe it out to start anew.

  6. How can we out-innovate? by gr8_phk · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How can we out innovate when large corporations are selling technology to foreign countries? Think GE selling jet engine designs to China so they can get some short term profit. True, that's stuff that's already been "innovated", but unless you can know and sustain your rate of innovation you should not help the competition.

    1. Re:How can we out-innovate? by crumbz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The logic that we need to compete with workers who are poorly paid, who live and work in an environmental nightmare, is ridiculous.

    2. Re:How can we out-innovate? by plopez · · Score: 1

      Not mention China making components for wind turbines. Alternative energy will enrich China.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    3. Re:How can we out-innovate? by mark72005 · · Score: 1

      I agree. How about we try to employ people in emerging, leading edge industries instead of wasting time and effort propping up mature, minimally skilled ones?

    4. Re:How can we out-innovate? by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 1
      How can we out innovate when large corporations are selling technology to foreign countries?

      Innovation has little to do with selling what you've already innovated. Being proprietary might increase the learning curve for a while to give you a bit more time but it's like security through obscurity - it's not a sustainable strategy.

      The sad thing is that this is the same stuff (i.e., innovation and education) that's been said by each President since the days of RW Regan. We still don't have a coherent nationwide industrial or education policy to back the drive for either. The thing that's never mentioned is that "innovation" is not a sustainable advantage. And it's not clear that "innovation and education" leadership is a sustainable strategy either. To think it is, you have to assume that either (1) people not in your country are, for some reason, more stupid and less creative than your people are; or (2) that your particular country is a special little snowflake that is better than the 200+ other little snowflakes competing against it on the world stage and it has a way of keeping itself being special. I really don't see either of those being true at this point.

      --
      That is all.
    5. Re:How can we out-innovate? by vbraga · · Score: 1

      Do you think that jet turbines, or manufacturing, as a whole is something "mature, minimally skilled"? It takes a lot of skill to use special welds, operate machinery designed for competitive grain growth for turbine blades, and so on. I don't know why people look at factories with prejudice.

      --
      English is not my first language. Corrections and suggestions are welcome.
    6. Re:How can we out-innovate? by benjamindees · · Score: 1

      And apparently we need to do it by selling out US tech workers and subsidizing dangerous, low-skill manufacturing*.

      *hamburger manufacturing

      --
      "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
    7. Re:How can we out-innovate? by stoolpigeon · · Score: 1

      Asia is going to push ahead sooner or later - it's a pretty simple numbers game. Because you are right, the West doesn't have a monopoly on intelligence and creativity.

      It seems to me that we would do well to plan with this in mind, rather than trying to think that somehow we need to stay "number 1". Plans need to be based on reality if they are going to have any chance of succeeding.

      I thought it was interesting that you bring up a nationwide education policy. I think an argument could be made that local control is important to successful education. In fact I would argue that our largest problem is that people now look outside and up for standards and solutions. There isn't a high level of involvement where it counts most, with those directly in contact with the students.

      --
      It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
    8. Re:How can we out-innovate? by CaptSlaq · · Score: 1

      I don't think that's the point at all.

      I think that the UAW (and its ilk) people who are ACTUALLY button pushers (or bolt/nut spinners, name your actually low skill job here) that get paid more than $15/hour to do so is what most people take away from any discussion about factory workers.

      Anyone here who think a welder or machinist who is good at their job doesn't generally earn their check is DEEPLY mis-informed.

    9. Re:How can we out-innovate? by labradore · · Score: 2

      China has set its tariffs, exchange rates, rules and standards to tilt the game in favor of employing Chinese labor for producing manufactured goods and for making exporters selling to China pay to compete. We aren't doing that. We protect the big native industries like agriculture which have real political clout and can't be outsourced and we consciously knock down any and all barriers to outsourcing our manufacturing because this feeds the bottom line of multinational manufacturers (in the short term).

      By the way, those big Ag. industries also employ hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants, which keeps their costs down. This also is intentional. It's why we don't have real immigration reform. We have huge oil subsidies and expensive health care because all of the laws are written to make profits flow up. It's not a conspiracy. It's just a reflection of the fact that money naturally concentrates at the top and it is so easy to buy the type of legislation (or lack thereof) that can distort markets and help the money keep flowing up. Add in the hidden tax of inflation on everyone, the enormous tax on investors of the privileged super-connected Wall Streeters and the huge money sink that is the military-industrial complex and it's fairly easy to see that we're vacuuming cash out of the politically powerless middle and lower classes into the pockets of the politically connected upper class. All of the economic data of the last 30 years supports this. The richest 10% owns over half of all assets. Working class wages have fallen down a hill for the past 35 years (especially when you count that we've nearly doubled the available labor pool by putting women to work!). Our standard of living has fallen while our personal, government and corporate debts have ballooned. Big business thrives by setting the rules in favor of itself and against the smaller up-and-comers.

      I used to believe that this just wasn't the case. I used to believe 100% in the unregulated free market. Perhaps I still do, but the reality today is that we're regulating and lawyering ourselves into oblivion. To get back to the original point: if we hadn't spent the last 30 years outrageously inflating the cost of our own labor (see all the reasons above) and knocking down every obstacle to outsourcing it abroad, our stores would be more than half-full with goods that are made in USA. Even with all the ridiculous overhead that we've imposed on ourselves, US labor isn't completely uncompetitive. We have more skilled workers than anywhere in the world. If the cost of healthcare for employees were to be cut from 17% of GDP to the perfectly adequate 7%; if we didn't pay outrageous insurance rates at every turn because of a legal system gone mad; if we didn't have huge unnecessary tax rates to pay for ridiculous military boondoggles, big industry subsidies and misguided regulation; if we didn't spend so much money just in transaction costs and debt maintenance imposed by Wall Street leeches, we'd have much cheaper labor and capital. We'd have competitive labor and capital. All of these things are costs in and of themselves and they compound each other.

    10. Re:How can we out-innovate? by Znork · · Score: 1

      The thing that's never mentioned is that "innovation" is not a sustainable advantage

      And for the purpose that the politicians intend to use it it's definitely not an advantage. Innovation doesn't create jobs, it removes them. The majority of the time, the whole point of innovating is reducing labour needed to accomplish a specific purpose, ultimately making accomplishing that cheaper, all the way to the end game when there's barely any human labour needed at all in the production chains.

    11. Re:How can we out-innovate? by TopSpin · · Score: 1

      emerging, leading edge industries instead of wasting time and effort propping up mature, minimally skilled ones

      What makes you believe we must pick one or the other? From whom did you learn that the former was even viable without the latter? People that know more than you say it isn't:

      Andy Grove on evacuating the 'mature' bits to asia: "Not only did we lose an untold number of jobs, we broke the chain of experience that is so important in technological evolution. As happened with batteries, abandoning today's 'commodity' manufacturing can lock you out of tomorrow's emerging industry."

      This vision you and Obama share where we do all the neato high value stuff and leave the dirty bits for China is a fiction that exists exclusively inside your heads; the real world doesn't work like that.

      --
      Lurking at the bottom of the gravity well, getting old
    12. Re:How can we out-innovate? by PeeAitchPee · · Score: 1

      Interesting. Let me add on a real-world example of one case where offshoring has driven an IT segment out of the country, and it's not coming back:

      A US company, at volume, can obtain relatively low-skilled image manipulation and data entry rates as low as $0.50 - $0.75 / hour by sending work overseas to various countries in Southeast Asia. These aren't slave kids chained to a desk and beaten with rubber hoses in some sweat shop -- they're ordinary, relatively poor but bright people given a shot to do something IT-related in a normal office environment. Next step up is India and China -- $1 - $3 / hour. As the owner of a startup, I currently pay US workers $9-11 / hour to do the same thing because our company haven't yet achieved the necessary volume of work to offshore. Once we do -- you guessed it -- we will offshore as well, because all of our competitors, both at home and abroad, do it, and if we don't join them, they'll kill us on price in the long term. Some are suggesting an isolationist / nationalist policy of forcing US companies to stop offshoring -- "stop sending jobs overseas!" While that may seem like a fix, it won't affect our out-of-US competitors selling into the international markets (or even into the US), and we along with other US companies will be simply priced out of deals. Additionally, the higher costs will just get passed on to the customers, resulting in less work getting done because the funds budgeted for projects don't go as far.

      The bottom line is that our standard of living in the US relative to much of the rest of the world is quite high, and it requires a certain wage scale. You can't find anyone here to work for $0.50 / hour because no one can live on that here. But $0.50 / hour is more money than the average person makes in certain other countries, so it's easy to find people to work there for such a wage. In 2011, offshoring is a requirement for doing many kinds of business in order to compete at all. There is no fix.

    13. Re:How can we out-innovate? by Remus+Shepherd · · Score: 1

      But that's the reality.

      Yes, for high-end manufacturing, we can compete with skilled, well-paid workers in Germany or Japan or wherever. But that's not the bulk of international trade. The vast majority of trade is in low-end manufacturing -- clothing and shoes and childrens' toys. Those objects are manufactured by 6 year olds working for twenty cents a day. There's no way we can compete with that without dismantling our middle class and handing the country over to the oligarchs.

      Can we base an economy as large as ours on just high-end manufacturing? Can we offer some low-end item that's innovative enough that it can be produced by our unskilled workers yet can't be replicated in Singapore or China? Or should we accept that we're a western nation and enact socialistic safeguards to protect the health and jobs of our middle class like they do in Germany?

      We can be like Singapore, or we can be like Germany. For decades America has tried to split the difference and stay in the middle between those two extremes, but we can no longer compete with half-assed capitalism and half-assed socialism. We're going to have to choose one or the other.

      --
      Genocide Man -- Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass murder can be hilarious.
    14. Re:How can we out-innovate? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunately that's exactly what we're doing on a daily basis. Outsourcing of jobs is one of the reasons most people are out of a job currently. Competition is competition no matter the price they're paid or where they do their work.

    15. Re:How can we out-innovate? by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      The logic that we need to compete with workers who are poorly paid, who live and work in an environmental nightmare, is ridiculous.

      - but it's not that you need to compete.

      You don't need to compete.

      You are competing.

      So the logic is this: you are competing and you are losing. Now, is that actually ridiculous as logic? No. It is perfect logic and I am not sure why your comment has this high moderation, but anyway.

      You are competing, you are spending on consumables, much more than those 'poor' people, with who you are competing (I hope you didn't actually feel dirty typing the description of 'those' people, poor you.)

      You are competing with those people, they are winning, you are spending the money you borrowed from them.

      How about this logic: you are BORROWING MONEY from THOSE POOR PEOPLE.

      Then you are BUYING PRODUCTS MADE BY THOSE POOR PEOPLE.

      I actually disagree that they are poorly paid people. They are paid what the market is setting for them, it is you, who is probably overpaid and thinking that you are OWED that for some reason.

      Here is a clue: if you didn't borrow money from those people and didn't buy the consumables to the net tune of -50Billion USD/month (that's your monthly deficit), if that number was at least 0 instead of -50Billion, THEN that logic would have been 'ridiculous'.

      As it is, your comment is ridiculous.

    16. Re:How can we out-innovate? by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      China has set its tariffs, exchange rates, rules and standards to tilt the game in favor of employing Chinese labor for producing manufactured goods and for making exporters selling to China pay to compete.

      - China has a tariff that the gov't of China collects on imports.

      It's 25%, right? More or less, something like that, without looking at any specific case by case situation.

      US has that at about 2.5%, again, no case by case analysis, just overall number.

      You think you can produce SOMETHING in USA that you can export into China, and even if they had 0% tariff you'd be able to compete on price with the goods that are produced in China?

      Good luck.

      Think about this: the USA produces some stuff, but it really mostly assembles parts that come from other countries, specifically mostly from China and maybe Germany and Japan, but mostly China.

      So with the 25% tariff on import of RAW materials into China, and then after exporting the parts into USA and paying maybe 2.5% tariff on import into USA, then with all the assembly costs added in USA, you think you could then ship this item back to China to sell it there?

      Why do you think that? Even if the tariff on import to China was 0, again, the cost of assembling the part in USA is crazy compared to that cost in China.

      In reality the USA cannot export anything into China and compete on price even with 0% tariffs on Chinese side, it's simple - in USA cost of organizing labor/corporation/regulations/taxes is too high, that's all there is to it.

      You can't compete this way with China at all.

      For USA to become actually competitive in production ALL US business regulations must be abolished, all capital and income taxes must be abolished, all US departments must be abolished, all gov't subsidies to everybody, from a corporation to any one individual, all of that has to stop and the US gov't must stop printing money.

      I asked the question here - why aren't people outraged at the state of the Union in USA? Perhaps it's because they want to pretend that things can continue the way they used to be, but it's just not going to continue that way.

    17. Re:How can we out-innovate? by benjamindees · · Score: 1

      There is no fix.

      Bullshit. People making $0.50/hr do so because the states in which they live have utterly failed. They have too many people, and not enough resources. Workers in the US make ten times as much because we have ten times as many resources per capita. It is that simple.

      The fix is simple too: CLOSE THE BORDERS. We keep our resources, our high living standards, and a citizenry devoted to mostly-functional government instead of some third-world kleptocracy. The rest of the world can 'compete' over everything else. Who cares if we get priced out of the opportunity to do more work? We're already better-off than nearly everyone on the planet. Why should we work to dilute that wealth when the only direction we can go is down?

      --
      "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
    18. Re:How can we out-innovate? by mark72005 · · Score: 1

      Depends on the factory. I know numerous people who have worked for Ford making big salaries doing things that are definitely minimally skilled.

    19. Re:How can we out-innovate? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have to agree with the parent as I have been one person displaced intially by lower wage IT. I was working at a software company a few years ago when a foreign company came in with a better product and was able to sell it for 1/3 we were selling ours. They beat us out on labor costs alone and customers switched. The owners eventually closed the doors.

      I don't know if closing the borders would help. Those companies still setup shops in the States and charge a premium for native English tech support and on-site support. We seem happy to take those positions and run. The only way may be down. Hopefully, the prices won't kill us before we can all adjust.

    20. Re:How can we out-innovate? by cmarkn · · Score: 1

      I agree, there is no fix, but there is a way to reduce the advantage of foreign competitors: the Fair Tax. It would eliminate all corporate income taxes and replaces them, and all other taxes, with a tax on consumption. This erases the advantage foreign companies gain from US companies paying what even the President admitted in his speech are among the highest corporate taxes in the world, and it reduces many other costs, eg, money wasted in record keeping for tax purposes.

      Fair Tax doesn't fix everything, but it sure would help a lot.

      --
      People should not fear their government. Governments should fear their people.
    21. Re:How can we out-innovate? by bored · · Score: 1

      Well, said. Especially as there are 10 smart, educated, innovative, and driven people in china for ever one in the US.

    22. Re:How can we out-innovate? by cmarkn · · Score: 1

      Tthe point of having less human labor in work that machines can do is that you have more human labor involved in work that machines can't do, things that make the world better. It gives us the luxury of worrying about kids in Africa getting bitten by mosquitos and being able to do something about it.

      Look at your “end game”. Barely any labor needed at all. I do not think it means what you think it means. If there is barely any human labor needed at all, then you have realized the Star Trek economy of plenty for everyone. Can you tell me how that could possibly be a bad thing? Nothing to go to war over, no starving kids in, uh, anywhere, no need for anyone to steal. We’d still need doctors and astronauts and teachers. Hell, we might not even need lawyers.

      --
      People should not fear their government. Governments should fear their people.
    23. Re:How can we out-innovate? by lennier · · Score: 1

      How can we out innovate

      If the question being asked is hwo to out-innovate the entire world - ie, how to win a zero-sum contest - then it seems like we've already lost touch with reality. If the global economic game requires any one party to 'out-' another, then it's set up by design to force all except one of those parties, be they nations or individuals, to lose.

      What's wrong with good old innovation, production and self-sufficiency for and by the people, and not anyone trying to force anyone else into loserdom?

      --
      You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
  7. Outrage 8? by robthebloke · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Outrage 8: I was outraged at Outrage 2 (and some other stuff!)? Is this guy serious? The whole article just seems to be some incoherent and ill-constructed rant. As a Non-US citizen, is there some deep and meaningful message in the drivel that I'm not understanding?

    1. Re:Outrage 8? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please excuse his incoherent and ill-constructed rant article. He's a product of the US education system.

    2. Re:Outrage 8? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope. This is just political drivel in response to political drivel. A complete waste of time.

    3. Re:Outrage 8? by WrongSizeGlass · · Score: 1

      The whole article just seems to be some incoherent and ill-constructed rant.

      So what you're saying is that it's a perfect post on /. ?

    4. Re:Outrage 8? by Goldsmith · · Score: 1

      We have a long tradition of incoherent ranting in this country! The deep and meaningful message here is that people here still base their view of the country's future around 1) their wallet and 2) an arbitrary party affiliation that really has nothing to do with actual personal views.

      Business as usual.

    5. Re:Outrage 8? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Considering number 10 was complaining about the speakers pink tie... it was definitely an ill-constructed rant.

    6. Re:Outrage 8? by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Yes there is.

      It's that most magazines and ":news outlets" hire people that know absolutely nothing about what they speak of, yet are given print space and an air of authority so they sound like they know something.

      In reality they don't. This is some dolt that has a Journalism degree and knows absolutely nothing at all about "techie stuff". Most 13 year olds would eat the man alive in a technology discussion.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    7. Re:Outrage 8? by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      As a Non-US citizen, is there some deep and meaningful message in the drivel that I'm not understanding?

      As a US citizen, I can answer that for you:

      No. He's a self-absorbed moronic douche bag.

    8. Re:Outrage 8? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, the deep meaning is that incoherent and ill-constructed rants are what pass for deep and meaningful political discussion over here in the USA, at least these days.

    9. Re:Outrage 8? by Bieeanda · · Score: 1

      As clearly evinced by that godawful glamour shot photograph pinned above his name.

    10. Re:Outrage 8? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, the author wants non-US citizens to stop making things which are useful and buy shiny things made in America which won't start.

    11. Re:Outrage 8? by Kohath · · Score: 1

      Don't you have a variety of petty hatreds that need to be satisfied? Aren't you greedy to receive (or spend) money you didn't earn? Aren't you socialized to feel the emotions you're "supposed" to feel on demand?

      No? Then you'll never understand American politics.

    12. Re:Outrage 8? by tverbeek · · Score: 1

      As a Non-US citizen, is there some deep and meaningful message in the drivel that I'm not understanding?

      Only that artificial outrage is what has been passing for political discourse in this country for the last few years. The good(?) news is that it's gradually being overtaken by the real kind.

      --
      http://alternatives.rzero.com/
    13. Re:Outrage 8? by emurphy42 · · Score: 2
      "Outrage 8" is itself a misnomer. Here's how TFA is actually structured:
      1. 1. Overall theme of the speech
      2. 2. Innovation and education (and outrage over implicit concession of manufacturing)
      3. 3. Clean energy
      4. 4. Oil subsidies
      5. 5. Health care
      6. 6. Immigration
      7. 7. Deficit
      8. 8. Outrages
        1. a. #2, as mentioned
        2. b. TSA security theater
        3. c. Net neutrality
        4. d. One thing from #3 being too far in the future to be politically meaningful)
      9. 9. Opposition response (and fluff about who sat where)
      10. 10. Fluff about Boehner's clothes
    14. Re:Outrage 8? by epine · · Score: 1

      This is some dolt that has a Journalism degree and knows absolutely nothing at all about "techie stuff". Most 13 year olds would eat the man alive in a technology discussion.

      Spoken with the air of confidence of someone too lazy to even check Wikipedia. There is no lower rung of authority, excepting perhaps the hippie hot tub at my local swimming pool.

      From David Gewirtz

      David Allen Gewirtz is an American journalist and author who has written more than 700 articles about technology, competitiveness, and national security policy.

      I've read some of his stuff. He's not a stupid man, but sometimes he plays to his persona of a man straddling both sides of the fence far enough to set off the tilt detector.

      He set himself up for a fall by parsing Obama's speech as if small deviations from saying nothing at all were tea leaves of predestination, whereas any competent 13 year old would have gone into instant vapour-lock and headed for the nearest six exits (simultaneously).

      Long ago I briefly played a text MUD where you would type the verb "con" (consider) before picking a fight. There was this chick character I recall as the bartender at a pub where all the useless newbies hung out looking for a quick level up.

      > con bartender
      You wet your pants!

      > Google "David Gewirtz"
      You jostle your martini and nearly spill some.

      Try it some time.

    15. Re:Outrage 8? by sakonofie · · Score: 1
      Yeah outrage number 2...

      Her line: “We need to start making things again in this country.” When I start agreeing with Representative Bachmann, you know we’re in Bizarro World.

      Nevermind that the US has never stopped making things.

      The United States is the world's largest manufacturer

      (citation).
      Lets go out and find some more of those fact thingies shall we. Sstatistics for 2002 and 2007. (for pretty pictures of 2002)
      Only two data points, but it beats the pants off of the article's zero. Lets see total manufacturing sales beat beats inflation. Salary per worker roughly matches inflation. The first derivative on manufacturing jobs is negative.
      And by the by, if you want to increase manufacturing jobs in the US, you are going to need to increase the [already high] worker productivity given the rather high labor cost in the US. This is a form pf innovation. Just saying.

    16. Re:Outrage 8? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And we want to nationalize health care...

    17. Re:Outrage 8? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but we can't tell. If we do, the TSA will come touch our wieners.

    18. Re:Outrage 8? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ohhhhhhh 700 articles!

      Call me when he can write one that has content.

    19. Re:Outrage 8? by jd · · Score: 1

      Yes. The message is that most Americans have their brains in 1810, imagine the Wild West actually existed (and should be reproduced as much as possible, whether the rest of the population enjoys breathing or not), hate the idea that school should involve learning things - and, indeed, hate school. The President is no genius but has figured out that perhaps this isn't the ideal direction.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    20. Re:Outrage 8? by Tailhook · · Score: 1

      And by the by, if you want to increase manufacturing jobs in the US, you are going to need to increase the [already high] worker productivity given the rather high labor cost in the US. This is a form pf innovation. Just saying.

      We could hope for some heretofore unimagined order of magnitude productivity increase. For that to actually work China will have to not tap their 700+ million reserve peasants to match our productivity by continuing to supply endless cheap, expendable, risk-free labor that precludes the necessary investments. Good luck with that.

      Or we could just do what prosperous nations do and protect out domestic industry with tariffs and regulations that drive up the cost of foreign labor.

      Finally, and most probable since our president failed to even mention industry during his show last night, we could continue as we are, allowing our industry to evacuate with no consequences. It's what US businesses want. It's what Obama's nimb^h^h^h^h environmental constituency wants as well (that and 'low low' walmart prices.) Thus we have an opportunity for bi-partisanship; just do nothing and everyone that actually matters is happy.

      How many guesses will you need?

      --
      Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
    21. Re:Outrage 8? by jazcap · · Score: 1

      No.

    22. Re:Outrage 8? by sjames · · Score: 1

      As a Non-US citizen, is there some deep and meaningful message in the drivel that I'm not understanding?

      "Look at me and bow to my awesomness" followed by a Tarzan yell perhaps?

    23. Re:Outrage 8? by FoolishOwl · · Score: 1

      As a Non-US citizen, is there some deep and meaningful message in the drivel that I'm not understanding?

      The message is that some journalists are bad writers with superficial knowledge, working under tight deadlines.

    24. Re:Outrage 8? by pinkushun · · Score: 1

      Yes. He's just trying to "Win the future".

  8. Why do I care? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Sorry, but why should I care so much about David Gewirtz's take on the state of the union? But thanks for that deep insight on Boehner's choice of color for his tie.

    1. Re:Why do I care? by HarrySquatter · · Score: 2

      Sorry, but why should I care so much about David Gewirtz's take on the state of the union?

      Because if you don't care you won't help drive up his page hits and the ad revenue for zdnet?

  9. Re:The Prince by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    wat

  10. Link to article by Jaxim · · Score: 5, Informative

    I must be blind b/c I couldn't find the link to the article. I googled the post's title and found this article: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/government/10-things-and-4-outrages-techies-need-to-know-about-president-obamas-state-of-the-union-address/9930 In case someone is equally blind as me, I hope that helps.

    1. Re:Link to article by prof187 · · Score: 4, Informative

      The link is on "ten things" and is to the link you found, but the link color is apparently the same as the text color so there really isn't an indication...

      --

      My other sig is an import.
    2. Re:Link to article by Relayman · · Score: 1

      Thanks. I thought that maybe something in the new design wasn't working in my browser.

      --
      If I used a sig over again, would anyone notice?
    3. Re:Link to article by Jaxim · · Score: 1

      I totally didn't see that. Thanks. There really out be a "Source" link at the bottom of the blurb to highlight where the URL is and to make it consistent among the many slashdot postings.

    4. Re:Link to article by Megane · · Score: 5, Informative

      but the link color is apparently the same as the text color

      That's a "feature" of The New Slashdot.

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    5. Re:Link to article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The new design is, in fact, deliberately broken under all browsers, because the /. overlords know what a sense of smug self-superiority we get when we use our ultra-low marketshare, standards-compliant, boutique web browser and find broken pages. They wanted to bring users of all browsers those same happy feelings.

    6. Re:Link to article by jd · · Score: 1

      It *is* a feature. Since nobody RTFMs, actually having the link invisible saves on eye muscle movement.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    7. Re:Link to article by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      There is something that isn't working. Link Indications aren't working, except when you hover your mouse.

      This is basic UI design, you have to distinguish something is different by making it clear

      I mean is it really that hard to add an Underline to the CSS?

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    8. Re:Link to article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      how obnoxious

    9. Re:Link to article by pla · · Score: 1

      Add the following to your userContent.css file:
      a:link { color: blue !important; text-decoration: underline !important;}
      a:visited { color: cyan !important; text-decoration: underline !important;}

      Though if you can explain how I can get back my damned italic text (and tt or code), I'd certainly appreciate it...

    10. Re:Link to article by Fallingcow · · Score: 1

      Oh, god, I just got done complaining about some moderately bad things about the redesign in the linked-to thread, but I hadn't noticed the link color/no-underline stupidity. That's like web design 101--you don't fuck with basic text link style unless you've got a damn good reason to do it, and take special care to ensure they remain recognizable. Usually a rookie mistake, and one that even newbies don't tend to repeat after the first time; how long's their web designer been doing this sort of work?

    11. Re:Link to article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I got it pretty short: "TSA job requirements. 1. enjoy molesting passengers 2. give illusion of safety"

    12. Re:Link to article by Spencer+Drager · · Score: 1

      I could find it either. After scanning the page for the link I gave pause... determined to find it, I slowly moused over every element on the page til I found it in the text. It's #002F2F nested in #000000 text. Seriously? If you're going to have such a subtle color difference, keep it underlined.

  11. One Outrage I agree on... by chispito · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...was the President's jest that a benefit of high speed rail was the absence of a pat down. If he realizes this bothers people... why not actually address privacy rights and the out-of-control TSA in his SOTU speech instead of bringing it up and throwing it aside?

    --
    The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
    1. Re:One Outrage I agree on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      actually, in the last 10 years, security on Amtrack has increased a lot.
      the only reason we don't have patdowns yet is because we havn't had an attack. Day after some nutcase kill someone on a high speed train, we will ahve patdowns and all the rest...

    2. Re:One Outrage I agree on... by Seumas · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      Actually, the *entire* rail thing is a fucking joke. It's ridiculously expensive and isn't all that fast. It does have to, you know, make plenty of stops. It's essentially more corporate welfare for specific companies. Americans like to talk about "high speed bullet trains", because it makes them feel all sophisticated and European, but they have no fucking clue what's really supposedly so great about it.

      Also, they've already proposed greater attention to bus and rail travel, as far as security. The idea that they would somehow not impose the same violations of your liberty on trains is absurd. (And they already flag you for paying in cash for a train ticket).

      The real outrage of the whole fucking thing is the idea that we're going to cut spending by spending lots of money. Fucking ridiculous. Also, no politician will ever have the balls to make the cuts needed. Dont' dare piss off anyone and their precious little programs. here's an idea. Everyone takes a 30% cut across the board. Period. And the bullshit programs get a 100% cut.

    3. Re:One Outrage I agree on... by TreyGeek · · Score: 1

      My thought to his "avoid the pat down" by taking the train was that will only work until trains/high-speed rail become a popular method of transportation. Then the government and the TSA will see fit to put themselves between the terrorists and the train terminals, resulting in pat downs for everyone taking the train as well as the plane.

    4. Re:One Outrage I agree on... by flaming+error · · Score: 2

      I agree. I think the reason he doesn't reign in TSA might be that most Americans like having the illusion of security to counteract their illusion that flying is dangerous.

      Until somebody figures out how to explain risk management sanity in a way that fits on a bumper sticker, I fear voters will readily sacrifice their freedom for the security facade.

    5. Re:One Outrage I agree on... by mark72005 · · Score: 2

      I looked into Amtrak for a regular trip I make, which by car is 7 hours.

      It would take more than 12 hours for me to go by Amtrak, and a ticket would cost more than the gas my car consumes on the same trip. That's not even including the fact that if I take a train, I won't have a car when I get there and will have to pay more for additional transport.

      Long distance rail transit currently offers nothing attractive for most of us.

    6. Re:One Outrage I agree on... by mikestew · · Score: 1

      I nearly drove the car off the road when I heard him throw that little "joke" out there. "Take the train, no pat downs! Hahaha, whoo boy!"

      "Umm, yeah Mr. President, about those pat downs. If the lack thereof is your selling point..."

    7. Re:One Outrage I agree on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The difference is that 3 guys cannot commandeer a train and drive it into the Pentagon or Superbowl

    8. Re:One Outrage I agree on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because that would require him to actually do something. His role is not to act, but to entertain people long enough for democrats to find a real candidate (and regain control of the house).

    9. Re:One Outrage I agree on... by Applekid · · Score: 1

      The difference is that 3 guys cannot commandeer a train and drive it into the Pentagon or Superbowl

      Of course. TSA keeping "us" safe is really about the TSA keeping the government safe, both literally (Pentagon) and figuratively (Superbowl / World Trade Center): safe from embarrassing events which involve loss of life of the mere commoners, not necessarily the lives themselves.

      --
      More Twoson than Cupertino
    10. Re:One Outrage I agree on... by stoolpigeon · · Score: 1

      When I was a student in Chicago, I took the train regularly to visit family in south-west Michigan. It was affordable and I didn't have a car.

      I enjoyed it so much I thought I'd take the train home to Arizona for one of my breaks. It would take days and cost 3 or 4 times as much as flying. (This was in the early 90's - I don't think it's changed much.) So even if I didn't mind the time problem, I couldn't afford it.

      I think a decent rail system would be great, but I'm skeptical it will happen in my lifetime.

      --
      It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
    11. Re:One Outrage I agree on... by pablodiazgutierrez · · Score: 2

      That's why high speed railway is an improvement for the medium distance commute. Faster than flying, takes you straight to the city center where you can walk out or take a bus to your final destination. On board, you can sleep, read, work or walk around. I for one am looking forward to CA's first line. It would make my life so much nicer for my frequent SF-LA weekend trips.

    12. Re:One Outrage I agree on... by CAIMLAS · · Score: 1

      Exactly!

      Never mind that the absence of a pat-down on high speed rail is a bit of a misdirection/misnomer/outright lie. They're pushing for patdowns on everything from border crossing to Amtrak. What would make HSR any different, exactly?

      Fucking politicians. (Can I say that, still, or does this put me on a list?)

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    13. Re:One Outrage I agree on... by Microlith · · Score: 1

      Except that the TSA has already expressed a desire to add scanners and pat downs to things like bus routes, ships, and rail.

      The TSA will not stop with their power grab until the agency is destroyed.

    14. Re:One Outrage I agree on... by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      How about "You are 72000 times more likely to die in a car accident on the way to the airport than you are to die on a plane"

    15. Re:One Outrage I agree on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If people are going to take offense so easily, how could Obama have raised this point as an advantage of rail? Does this go on the long list of things that can't be mentioned in public?

    16. Re:One Outrage I agree on... by ocdscouter · · Score: 1

      Actually, it is his role to act. Just not in the sense that most people assume.

    17. Re:One Outrage I agree on... by IronChef · · Score: 2

      Even worse, TSA is ALREADY expanding its scope to rail travel. His joke was disingenuous because he darn well knows this is happening already. There is no pat-down, though... not yet anyway.

      It's hard to find news coverage of TSA scope expansion but it's easy to find personal reports on forums like this.

      http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-security/1173803-tsa-suburban-chicago-train-station.html

    18. Re:One Outrage I agree on... by chispito · · Score: 1

      I voted against the original high speed rail initiative, but have since come around. Eventually our cheap oil won't be available (it will be there for a long time, but not necessarily cheap), and I'm already tired of traffic. Rail makes a lot of sense for densely populated regions, or travel therebetween.

      --
      The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
    19. Re:One Outrage I agree on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the answer is exemplified by one of the immediately following lines:

      "First, if Americans are traveling in volume via high-speed rail, then those systems will need as much security as air travel."

      This is amazing to me... People can get on busses, subways, ferries, low speed trains, enter malls, go to the movies, etc. and not need pat downs or security of any kind. But all of a sudden they get into a high speed vechicle and they can't be trusted to carry a damn bottle of water? Why? Is the speed going to suddenly make someone go crazy and try to kill everyone with a nailclipper?

      Security started on planes because one could hijack them and get a ride to somewhere without extradition. That's it. That got expanded because of 9/11 and the notion that planes could be weapons. I think that's a stupid response, but whatever: it at least makes sense. This? You can't hijack it, and if you want to blow it up you could simply take out the tracks.

    20. Re:One Outrage I agree on... by Reverberant · · Score: 1

      Day after some nutcase kill someone on a high speed train, we will ahve patdowns and all the rest...

      It already happened and yet rail security here hasn't been changed.

    21. Re:One Outrage I agree on... by flaming+error · · Score: 1

      That's pretty good, but the numbers might lose the target audience.

      Maybe we could get the desired result with something like "Fear God Not Bombs" or "WWJD: Scan Naked, or Get Groped?"

    22. Re:One Outrage I agree on... by spinkham · · Score: 2

      Acela is the only "high speed"(still pitiful by international standards, but faster than driving) rail in the US, and coincidently the only part of Amtrack that actually turns a profit.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acela_Express

      --
      Blessed are the pessimists, for they have made backups.
    23. Re:One Outrage I agree on... by LordKronos · · Score: 1

      I don't know how much security may have increased, but a month ago I took my first train trip ever, and from my point of view the security was pretty transparent. I bought my ticket at amtrak.com, printed out the receipt with barcode, went to the station, scanned the barcode on a computer, got my printed ticket, and waited in the lobby with everyone else. When the train rolled up, I got aboard the train. As I stepped on, one of the employees was there to greet me, and that was the very first person I interacted with. That interaction lasted 1/4 of a second and I was on the train without him even looking at my ticket. His main purpose there seemed to be to help old people get the baggage up the steps.

      Once on the train, we departed and it was 5 minutes before someone even came around to look at my ticket. If I had wanted to do anything, I could have easily put anything in the luggage area with noone even taking note. I probably could have even hid out in the bathroom, wandered up to the snack area, etc, and completely avoided anyone seeing my ticket before getting off at the next stop (unless the employees were counting the number of people that got on, counting how many tickets they saw from new passengers, and then comparing notes with each other). Security on the Chicago Metra trains was even more lax, in that tickets are bought anonymously with cash, not for any specific train (I think a ticket is good for 1 year), nobody watches you board, and the conductor simply punched your ticket while the train was in motion, sometimes more than 1 stop after you boarded.

      Is that a security problem? Well, yes and no. It's a security problem in that anybody could have easily done something malicious. It's not a REAL problem from the fact that all the security in the world would be power against anyone who wants to do damage. With a plane, your attack vectors are 1) get something on board the plane, 2) get access to the restricted area outside and on the runway, or 3) collide with the plane mid air, either in another plane or using a missile. The first two can be reasonably secured, and the third is a quite difficult attack vector to exploit. With a train, the attack vector is easy and limitless. Simply walk up to anywhere on the thousands of miles of unsecured track and plant your bomb and wait for the train. It's impossible to protect. You don't even need to buy a ticket or set foot on a train in order to attack with even the most primitive explosives.

    24. Re:One Outrage I agree on... by SargentDU · · Score: 1

      Because he is TSA's big boss and he could change that without making any statement. It is all in his lap.

    25. Re:One Outrage I agree on... by jd · · Score: 1

      Oh, that's easy. "If you're close enough to read this, you're in a deathtrap".

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    26. Re:One Outrage I agree on... by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      It is worse than this. If you have to drive 7 hours, chances are, you cloud take a plane to your destination for the cost of gas or train ticket, and be there in two hours. That is, if you want to put up with the TSA (Touch Someone's Ass) molesters.

      There is no compelling reason to use Train for most trips, except commuter style ones.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    27. Re:One Outrage I agree on... by Choad+Namath · · Score: 1

      Actually, the *entire* rail thing is a fucking joke. It's ridiculously expensive and isn't all that fast. It does have to, you know, make plenty of stops. It's essentially more corporate welfare for specific companies. Americans like to talk about "high speed bullet trains", because it makes them feel all sophisticated and European, but they have no fucking clue what's really supposedly so great about it.

      Our *current* rail system does suck, which is the entire point of building a new high-speed rail system. We like to talk about it because if it actually ever happens, it will be better than flying for a lot of domestic travel: more legroom, power outlets, not having to show up 2 hours before departure, the ability to use mobile data plans for the majority of the trip, etc.

    28. Re:One Outrage I agree on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And not to mention... who truly knows whether there will be pat downs at the high-speed train stations?

    29. Re:One Outrage I agree on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't really think the main concern is the lives of the passengers ON the plane. It's the tens of thousands of gallons of jet-fuel and the ability to crash it into pretty much anything near the planned flight path. ie, the thing is one hell of a kamikaze bomb.
      If the people on the plane were the main concern, then there would be grouped masses of people waiting to get into the security line, as that's the obvious place to target them. Just as Moscow has recently had to deal with.

      And so trains really shouldn't* have the same issue, as they're kinda limited in their mobility.

      *except, of course, for the fact that we're talking about the TSA here....

    30. Re:One Outrage I agree on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or that government can't even meet that promise on EXISTING metropolitan rail/subway systems, while there are not TSA check points (yet, god forbid a metro should be attacked) police are doing searches of civilians and their possessions.

    31. Re:One Outrage I agree on... by xclr8r · · Score: 1

      This is my hypothesis on why rail doesn't get pat Downs and Air Travel does. An Airplane can be used as a weapon and once it is in the air you don't know what /where and how critical of a system it will hit. On the other-hand you can do two things with a train, move hostile units and two blow it up.

      A. You know the path a train is going to take and can stop it at nearly any spot on it's predefined path. Just blow up the tracks. The explosion can at most take out the area of a neighborhood.

      B. The pat down's are not for the passenger's safety (They are just casualties), it's for the safety of the infrastructure.

      --
      Beware of those who profit off the docile and persecute the unbelievers.
    32. Re:One Outrage I agree on... by xclr8r · · Score: 1

      Sorry for the capitalization atrocities.

      --
      Beware of those who profit off the docile and persecute the unbelievers.
    33. Re:One Outrage I agree on... by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      How about "Worldwide, more die of seasonal flu annually than have died in terrorist attacks since 1970."

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    34. Re:One Outrage I agree on... by mark72005 · · Score: 1

      It might be particular to my trip, but for me the gas costs about $60-70 each way, while a plane ticket typically runs $250-$300 (before all the extra fees and add-ons).

      It might only be a two hour flight, but transit to and from the airport along with wait times stretch it out to not being any faster than car, or only an hour or two faster.

    35. Re:One Outrage I agree on... by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      Fucking politicians. (Can I say that, still, or does this put me on a list?)

      Yes, you can. However, asking if you will be put on a list, puts you on a different list.

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
  12. Not a pink tie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Boehner’s tie was purple. As in red and blue mixed.

    I read nothing that should cause "outrage".

    1. Re:Not a pink tie by HarrySquatter · · Score: 1

      Your outrage should come from the fact that this is lame ass blog spam.

  13. sigh by hb253 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I am troubled by the wording of the headline. Am I alone in this regard?

    --
    Self awareness - try it!
    1. Re:sigh by Mr.Intel · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, the submission title char limits prevented me from using the whole thing. Or were you referring to the article's headline? Yeah, it's troubling. Gewirtz is a nutjob and I really didn't think Taco and co. would go for it. Silly me. Besides, the fine folks here on /. can handle it, right? Even nutjobs spur meaningful conversation.

      --
      ASCII tastes bad dude.
      Binary it is then.
    2. Re:sigh by The+Moof · · Score: 1

      I think he's referring to the fact that there's nothing really techie related in the entire article, despite the headline here.

    3. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, I misread it as "Four Outraged Techies Need To Know..."

      And it made more sense.

    4. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am outraged by the wording of the headline. Am I alone in this regard?

      Fixed that for you. No you're probably not. I'm here for you.

  14. Meh. by orphiuchus · · Score: 1

    The speech was fine I guess. Nothing that made me want to vote for him in 2012.

  15. let's each make our own stuff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    3d printers and open source hardware designs will make cheap labor irrelevant.

    1. Re:let's each make our own stuff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But then what do you do with the irrelevant people? If we're all actually honest about the situation, we have too many people and not enough for them to do.

    2. Re:let's each make our own stuff by arb+phd+slp · · Score: 1

      But then what do you do with the irrelevant people? If we're all actually honest about the situation, we have too many people and not enough for them to do.

      This has been my question. You can't run a country like a business, because in a business you can lay off redundant people and they go away. Because of productivity gains, GDP is back where is was before the crash, but we still have 9% (really more like 17%) unemployment. We just don't need those millions of people we laid off back in 2008 for anything, but they stubbornly continue to exist.

      --
      There's a perfect xkcd for my sig but I'm too lazy to look it up. sudo someone go find it.
  16. David Gewirtz? Who? by Kohath · · Score: 2

    Why do we care what David Gewirtz thinks?

    His big ideas seem to be "smart" power (or smartness in general) and clean energy. In other words, the same nonsense fluff you've heard 10000 times.

  17. Outrages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I cannot wake up in the morning with the same amount of outrage this guy seems to have. Seriously, just take a breath and relax

    1. Re:Outrages by Mr.Intel · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up. I'm glad my fellow /.ers recognize him as a nutjob.

      --
      ASCII tastes bad dude.
      Binary it is then.
  18. How about a global view? by Tuan121 · · Score: 1

    We need to out-innovate, out-educate, and out-build the rest of the world

    Can't we just try to work with the rest of the world to try to make things better for everyone? I don't care if America is #1 in x y or z if the world as a whole is not advancing.

    1. Re:How about a global view? by PPH · · Score: 1

      "It's not enough to succeed. Others must fail."
                                                    -Gore Vidal

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    2. Re:How about a global view? by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Out-Educate... I agree. Our education system from grade 1 to 9th year College graduate is a utter joke compared to other countries. It needs to be overhauled hard and increase the quality AND accessibility. China kicks our ass hard because ANYONE can get a masters degree. In the USA you have to be rich or have good credit to get one.

      Why any child graduates high school and not have the ability to do algebra, geometry, has basic computer skills and can speak and write in 2 languages is a disgrace. There is ZERO reason to have a summer break, our kids dont need to work the farm all summer to prepare for winter. YEAR long school is long overdue.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    3. Re:How about a global view? by vlueboy · · Score: 1

      Can't we just try to work with the rest of the world to try to make things better for everyone?

      Interesting. It's a matter of economically-useless nationalism and more importantly, lack of logistics savings. The US has no land-reachable superpower nearby to export cheaper goods than China's own. Brazil is economically growing, but it is no power like the EU and is halfway across the continent; it also doesn't speak English very well, so it's not an outsource-ready territory. If Mexico next door weren't a political mess (drugs cartels assassinating their cops, and illegal migration to the US.,) USA would save some money through shorter import routes... corps might even set shops there and move jobs they can't pay for on US soil. The English-indoors, Spanish-outdoors language barrier is still something of a problem with all of Latin America, and most English-speaking populations have strong Caribbean accents (think Jamaica) that are not friendlier than India's now-better-trained-to-imitate-English callcenters.

      So working with the rest of the world means going to Europe, wait, their EU competes with them. What about Asia? population density, predominantly non-occidental views and extremely different wages make it harder to ally with beyond unfair advantage of foreign-manufacturing and outsourcing rates. What does the US have left? Africa.

      Ugh. Looks like Uncle Sam will be going it alone till Latin America somehow yields a China-like superpower, forcing the US to cooperate with it. If that doesn't happen in a year or two, the recession pains and need to work together will stop being important. Worst case scenario, as China keeps rising, the US will be forced into cooperating more with it to catch proverbial breadcrumbs off their table (e.g: bending over backwards politically to push China's trade influence into less-cooperating territories like Europe and the Middle East.) Oh, forgot to mention how the US can't count on the Middle East for help either. It's over for them.

    4. Re:How about a global view? by TheEyes · · Score: 1

      We need to out-innovate, out-educate, and out-build the rest of the world

      Can't we just try to work with the rest of the world to try to make things better for everyone? I don't care if America is #1 in x y or z if the world as a whole is not advancing.

      The average American worker makes twenty times what the average Chinese worker does. Unless we want to all be making $3,000/year, we need to have some sort of edge to out-compete them. Obama and the Democrats think that is science and infrastructure; the Republicans apparently think that edge is the military.

    5. Re:How about a global view? by bored · · Score: 1

      And the part the Republicans miss is that without science and infrastructure you can't have an advanced military. Without a large manufacturing base you cant win with the zerg rush either (aka WII where we (and the Russians) flung tons of crappy hardware at the germans). Frankly the whole military (/police) spending just makes me sick. I've seen graphs where people point out that a huge part of the current national debt is directly attributable to past military expendtures. With that kind of logic instead of investing in infrastructure and education we basically waste fsck tons of money on a military that already costs more than nearly all the remaining militaries in the world. The current budge discussions make me sick, we fight over all the little shit while, no one will bring up serious military cuts without referencing Eisenhower, as if that somehow makes even having the discussion ok. Its like having the clean energy discussions without even talking about the N word.

       

  19. Dubious content, poor UI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can't decide if the new /. UI is more distracting or the dubious article selections today. Kind of a lose-lose situation.

    1. Re:Dubious content, poor UI by stoolpigeon · · Score: 1

      the fact that you don't think it's a loose-loose situation makes it win-win for me.

      --
      It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
    2. Re:Dubious content, poor UI by jgtg32a · · Score: 1

      The green boxes are a bit too large and the thread boarders are too thin, but as far as I can tell the site is a lot more responsive so I'm loving it.

  20. This isn't news by jjohn · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That article is an opinion piece. Just because that crap is on ZDnet doesn't make it news of nerds.

    1. Re:This isn't news by Pedant · · Score: 0

      Slashdot's "News for Nerds" slogan seems to have disappeared with the new look.

  21. The most important question from TFA... by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 1

    Our nation's colors are red, white, and blue. So what's with Boehner's tie?

    I agree! It really clashed with his orange face.

    --
    That is all.
    1. Re:The most important question from TFA... by Kymermosst · · Score: 1

      Whether he can keep that new position after wearing a very, very pink tie ... Our nation's colors are red, white, and blue. So what's with Boehner's tie?

      Obviously the author didn't bother to consider what happens when you mix equal parts of red, white, and blue.

      Here's a hint: it's very, very pink.

      --
      "Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives" should be a convenience store, not a government agency.
  22. Not tech focused. by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · · Score: 1

    I don't agree with his politics and absolutely none of his "outrages" were that outrageous. The speech is long and boring as it is, to include enough info so the author wouldn't be "outraged", it would be a month long speech. I hope he at least has some broken pieces of furniture or hole sin his walls where he can point to as evidence the he's really outraged. Otherwise it sounds like he's mad a s hell and not going to do anything about it except write about how mad as hell he is.

    --
    Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
  23. A modest proposal by MikeRT · · Score: 5, Interesting

    At 27, I'm a "millennial." My generation and Generation X are looking at a bleak future because of what is being done by the Boomers.

    I have a simple solution: take away the Boomers' Social Security and Medicare. All of it. Keep the Boomers' parents on it. They paid in and didn't give us this situation. They passed on the baton of leadership to the Boomers around Bush Sr. and the Boomers hit prime time in the Clinton and Bush years.

    I say "f#$%" them, as a generation. They want to be able to default $500k mortgages and enjoy generous pensions and Social Security when they won't even let my generation discharge a few 10s of thousands of dollars in student loans **in bankruptcy court**. They want to turn Generation X into beasts of burden to fund their benefits while my generation wallows in disproportionate unemployment?

    Screw them. The revenues from taking them off the potential Social Security and Medicare rosters would more than pay off our debt in under a decade.

    1. Re:A modest proposal by Beelzebud · · Score: 2

      You need to read up on how the Social Security program is actually funded, because right now you sound like an uninformed jackass.

    2. Re:A modest proposal by carpefishus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As a late boomer I love that idea. Just pay back to me what I put in adjusted for inflation, of course. I could then retire right now. If that doesn't work for you get your lazy ass back to work and pay for my retirement as I paid for your grandpas.

      --
      Facts take all of the premium out of arm waving - T. Reynolds
    3. Re:A modest proposal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At 27, I'm a "millennial." My generation and Generation X are looking at a bleak future because of what is being done by the Boomers.

      No your generation is looking at a bleak future because you don't vote (and then you whine about it and blame everybody but yourself).

    4. Re:A modest proposal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Why does he sound like a jackass? I quote funding of Social Security from wikipedia: "In 2009 the Office of the Chief Actuary of the Social Security Administration calculated an unfunded obligation of $15.1 trillion for the Social Security program. The unfunded obligation is the difference between the present value of the cost of Social Security and the present value of the assets in the Trust Fund and the future scheduled tax income of the program.". This mean, if I read it correctly, that the amount that will be paid out, most of which is going to Boomers, far exceeds the assets in the trust fund. In fact, it exceeds it by so much that even future scheduled tax income will not cover it. The assets in the trust fund of course do not completely represent the amount of money that the Boomers paid in, since some of that money was used to pay for those before the Boomers. However, given the magnitude of the unfunded obligation, this suggests to me that the amount that has been paid in by Boomers is not sufficient to cover the amount owed to Boomers.

      Even if the amount that has been paid in were sufficient to cover future obligations to that given generation, this would not at all imply that the Boomers were "owed" the money in Social Security. For years, the government has spent more than it has received. It's fine to say "but this money that is being spent (the obligations) is covered by this patch of money that is received (the OASDI taxes)", but money is totally liquid, you can account it how you like. The fact is, not enough was paid, and the younger generation is and will pay for it.

    5. Re:A modest proposal by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

      Please don't draw these clear "generation" lines that don't really exist. If you don't like entitlement programs, join the constitutionalists and the libertarians against the problem in general, instead of blaming some overly broad group. No one should be able to default on mortgages they can't pay then sit around collecting Medicare for the rest of their lives - it doesn't matter if they are Generation X, Y, Z, or whatever.

    6. Re:A modest proposal by Kohath · · Score: 0

      Anger and fantasy are your solutions then? Congratulations. You can be a useful idiot for someone's agenda.

    7. Re:A modest proposal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Got news for you. Boomers are paying for their parents Social Security and their own Social Security. The much beloved (not by me) President Ronald Reagan raised SS taxes so that baby boomers pay for their parents and themselves. Recall that SS is not a retirement plan, it's a redistribution plan; the current working generation pays for the current retired generation. So before you start taking anything away, make sure you know the situation.

      Secondly, SS is just fine. It's running a surplus and can pay full benefits for the next 27 years. It can easily go further if they raise the top level of income for contribution to $200,000 or higher. Bu then, we can't tax the rich, can we?

      I'm a Jones generation (late babyboomer). I followed the main crest my whole life. When I got to the schools, they were run down and out of money. When I looked for a job, the boomers held the high positions (I'm now I'm too old for many of those jobs). College is too expensive, but I saw my tuition rise from $300 a quarter to $1200 a credit.

      Blame that on the big business who wants to recruit the "cream of the crop" from the world. That's just another way of saying, "We don't want to invest in our country, its infrastructure or its citizens." No jobs is more due to off-shoring than boomers not retiring (which is kind of what you want to prevent by taking away SS).

      You, as a "millennial" actually have it better. I've seen that many boomers have been willing to invest in public schools when you were attending. You'll see more boomers retire or die than I will.

    8. Re:A modest proposal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You need to read up on how the Social Security program is actually funded, because right now you sound like an uninformed jackass.

      Well, gender-undetermined informed jackass, please enlighten us with actual information on this subject that supports your view rather than expecting that the gaggle of retards you're accustomed to speaking to are the majority or even the outspoken minority of Slashdot.

      I'm so fucking sick of people trying to make a point not to debate them by calling the other party inferior and not actually providing any information - my guess is your part of the baby-boomer generation (or perhaps a bleeding-heart idiot hypnotized by the liberal elites) who has found a great deal of merit in the baby-boomer ideals of such political tactics over ACTUALLY DOING/SAYING/KNOWING ANYTHING WHATSOEVER.

    9. Re:A modest proposal by ptbarnett · · Score: 2

      I have a simple solution: take away the Boomers' Social Security and Medicare. All of it. Keep the Boomers' parents on it. They paid in and didn't give us this situation. They passed on the baton of leadership to the Boomers around Bush Sr. and the Boomers hit prime time in the Clinton and Bush years.

      The Boomer's parents paid a fraction of what they received (and are still receiving) from Social Security and Medicare.

      The Boomers will be lucky to receive a fraction of what they paid into Social Security. What they get from Medicare will largely depend on their personal medical situation.

      My mortgage is paid was full, after 10 years. I don't have a pension, generous or otherwise. My retirement assets are in IRAs and a 401(k) -- and are substantial despite the gyrations of the market, because I have been contributing the maximum allowed on top of contributing to Social Security and Medicare.

      If I had the opportunity to invest my contributions to Social Security alone into the prevailing long-term US Treasury Bonds (the same as the "trust fund") each year, I've calculated that I would have $730,000 right now, and nearly $1.5 million by the time I turn 65. You want me to give all that up? What are you offering in return?

      Before you were even born, people like me were pointing out the problems with Social Security. We saw the train wreck coming, but the reason the Boomer's haven't done anything about it is because the Boomer's parents made the issue politically radioactive.

      We were told to STFU. So, 30 years later, I have the same advice for you: STFU, at least until you come up with an exit strategy that spreads the pain equally over every generation.

    10. Re:A modest proposal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hi, Gen X here. Quit your whining, and never lump our generation with yours.

    11. Re:A modest proposal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With you 100% of the way. They sold our future for plasma televisions and McMansions. They fucked up the economy for their benefit, leaving us to face recessions and unemployment. From the greatest generation came the least and we're left to pick up the pieces.

      Save the planet - kill a boomer.

    12. Re:A modest proposal by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I say "f#$%" them, as a generation. They want to be able to default $500k mortgages and enjoy generous pensions and Social Security when they won't even let my generation discharge a few 10s of thousands of dollars in student loans **in bankruptcy court**.

      First, most of us have not yet had the pleasure of "default[ing] $500K mortages". Check the percentages of defaults nationwide (it's under 20%) and my assumption is that it was not us boomers that did most of the defaulting - look a little closer upstream at the X'ers for that. Second, most boomers don't have pensions - just fairly crappy 401K's that are usually underfunded and insufficient to maintain a person in this country - not that relatively meager SocSec payments are much better. Finally, I don't really give a rat's ass whether or not you discharge your debts, as long as my tax dollars aren't backing them. Let the lenders take the haircut and I'd be fine with it.

      As for the Congresspeople who don't seem to care about you, all I'll say is that you have a chance to vote, too. You're also young and energetic enough to run about banging on doors and getting your fellow young people elected. In my state, we have quite a few Gen X's in the state legislature (many with many Gen Y's on their staff), many of whom will probably be in the US legislature in a few years. Of course, not many of them go about spouting idiocy like "Take away Social Security and Medicare" and everything will be great for me!!!

      In fact, as for your "modest proposal", if you did try to do that, remember that boomers are in generally better health than the elderly of previous generations, we outnumber you, firearms take away strength advantages, and I bet you'd taste really good, once roasted.

      --
      That is all.
    13. Re:A modest proposal by Goldsmith · · Score: 2

      I know you're going to get some Boomers calling for your head about this post, but they should realize that this is not some fringe opinion. There are US cities (San Diego comes to mind) that are considering declaring bankruptcy simply so they wont have to pay any Boomer pensions. Financially, it is impossible for us to pay for their retirement with the jobs we have available. The math simply does not add up. What choice do they have? It's either have a city government or pay Boomer pensions. They can't do both in the next 15 years, so the Boomers in power may choose to keep their political positions and sacrifice the city pensions. There's a tricky problem in there.

      Completely cutting them off will not work. We need those guys to retire and get out of the way. They will never leave the workplace, and never leave positions of power if we don't make things nice and easy for them. Why should they leave if there's no retirement and no medical care?

      I'm not really sure what we can do, but it would be nice if people in positions of power didn't pretend like the Boomers are "the most vulnerable" part of our society. What a joke.

      We can't just wait for them to spend themselves out of business like is happening in local government. The federal government will last a lot longer before debt forces them to fold or succumb to inflation, so they won't live long enough at the top to face the same choices places like San Diego face.

    14. Re:A modest proposal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hi, Gen X here. Quit your whining

      /irony meter assplodes

    15. Re:A modest proposal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Read up on it, we are paying at the bottom of the pyramid scheme. You sir are the Jackass.

    16. Re:A modest proposal by sabt-pestnu · · Score: 2

      You missed the classical reference.

      Tongue, meet cheek.

    17. Re:A modest proposal by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      The social security department collects money, lends it to the government, which the government then spends on various things. It exists now only in that it is part of the $14tn national debt that the federal government has to pay back.

    18. Re:A modest proposal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do know that Swift's original "Modest Proposal" was that the Irish eat their children, so I'd be careful if I were invoking generational warfare.

      Here's a better modest proposal: how about we harvest your organs with a wooden spoon?

      It's like you don't know that your juvenile ramblings will be preserved into perpetuity.

    19. Re:A modest proposal by jimrthy · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The biggest problem with this is that we've already spent it all on other projects, to make the deficit look like a mere catastrophe. There's pretty much nothing left in those accounts except IOUs. And last year they fell into the red.

      Like every other Ponzi scheme, social security was doomed to go broke from the day they implemented it. That's why it was only intended to be a temporary emergency program.

      They only have two options. 1) Cut the budget completely to the bone (as in, quit doing pretty much anything else) to pay back the IOUs or 2) Crank up the printing presses, which means more inflation.

      So far the rest of the world's willing to keep extending our credit. Mainly because the global economy's all hitched together...when we go over the cliff, we're taking everyone else with us. Except possibly China.

      Grandpa thanks you for being stupid enough to pay for his retirement. I feel obligated to keep contributing to the people who were stupid enough to trust the government to keep the scam going...as long as we can start talking very seriously about bringing the government back under control. Anyone Gen X or younger who counts on seeing a penny of that tribute money deserves what he gets.

    20. Re:A modest proposal by MaWeiTao · · Score: 2

      I'd be inclined to say the same thing about millennials. "Fuck them" as a generation.

      They're self-centered and think they're entitled to the kinds of things everyone else has had to work for. I've come across a few millennials who seem to confuse ambition for wanting more stuff. They have this pretentiousness about them, that they're smarter than everyone who's come before, merely because they've played with more gadgets; and they're delusional, convinced they've got all the answers to fixing the world, like nobody in the history of the world hasn't already thought of all their ideas and have realized that they aren't necessarily practical or effective.

      It's great to be idealistic, but the real world is usually far more nuanced than too many people seem to think it is. I can't stand boomers myself; I agree that they're responsible for some of the crap we're dealing with now. And they're way too eager to pat themselves on the back for the 60s, even though they've violated some of those principles a million times over since. They do also have an attitude of entitlement, but I'd say that's more of a cultural problem and a generational one.

      And why should I be concerned about your student loans? You made the decision to take out those loans yourself, so own up to them. In fact, I dont get why people are upset over student loans at all when what they should really be complaining about is how outrageous college tuition is. Students should be taking to the streets to protest yearly tuition increases and more management of finances. Instead, they stupidly take to the streets to demand more government assistance which will only serve to perpetuate the problem. Not that government assistance is bad, but it wont fix the problem.

      But that's just one example. Nobody is willing to do what needs to be done because nobody wants to sacrifice or work a bit harder. There's no sense of pride. Everyone has to choose sides on every damn agenda. You can't have a rational discussion with people because most refuse to accept that perhaps conservative principles are would work better here and maybe liberal principles would work better there.

    21. Re:A modest proposal by ptbarnett · · Score: 1

      I know you're going to get some Boomers calling for your head about this post, but they should realize that this is not some fringe opinion. There are US cities (San Diego comes to mind) that are considering declaring bankruptcy simply so they wont have to pay any Boomer pensions. Financially, it is impossible for us to pay for their retirement with the jobs we have available. The math simply does not add up. What choice do they have? It's either have a city government or pay Boomer pensions. They can't do both in the next 15 years, so the Boomers in power may choose to keep their political positions and sacrifice the city pensions. There's a tricky problem in there.

      You're blaming the irresponsibility of local and state governments on Boomers?

      I've got news for you: only a small fraction of "Boomers" have a cushy state or city pension. A small percentage of the rest have a fixed pension which will be rapidly diminished by even modest inflation. Everyone else might have a 401(k), if they invested wisely.

    22. Re:A modest proposal by mugnyte · · Score: 1

      Wow, a less informed rant is hard to find.
        You better get ready to service all your own medical needs, since hospital emergency rooms will be full once your plans starts.
        What ages/qualifications are you drawing lines? The devil is in the details, or as I suspect, you're just blowing smoke and have no real plan.

      Here's a better idea:
        You know how you can help get costs down? Ask an elderly person to rent a room from you and help take care of them.

    23. Re:A modest proposal by Notyourpapa · · Score: 1

      Great idea...so many of us would have an amazing nest egg! Imagine...all of it from money that we actually earned.

    24. Re:A modest proposal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know that social security doesn't work via "they paid in", right? Currently paid out benefits are funded by the people currently paying in. The only way to do this would be to require boomers to keep paying, for their parents, then refuse to pay out for them, even though they paid in. This is the sort of plan that risks riots.

      The government doesn't bank your money and invest it and give it back to you later. They take it from you now and hand it right back out to your parents and grandparents.

      There is allegedly a mountain of money that is the difference between what they collect today and what they owe today, but in practice they just spend that on non-social security things and replace the money with an unfunded I.O.U. note, and that yearly difference is rapidly vanishing.

    25. Re:A modest proposal by zeroshade · · Score: 1

      Hmm, I seem to remember the fact that Obama got elected because of the influx of this generation's 18 - 28 year old voters who went and voted for him.......

      Now, if you said the republicans got control of the house because he didn't vote, then I might agree since there was a HUGE dropoff of voters for the mid-terms.

    26. Re:A modest proposal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So tell me, why does gen X have to pay the boomer's way when we have no hope of ever getting even a "fairly crappy 401K?" I'm going to be working my ass off until I'm 80 to pay your pension unless I win the salary lottery (or, more likely, the actual lottery) and my retirement plan is my future children's salaries. You, on the other hand, gotta grow up when the American dream was an actual (yet unsustainable) reality. Jobs were plentiful, the US was on top, and nowadays you can actually gripe about your shrinking retirement fund and pensions. We won't have those luxuries. My generation's motto is simply "get out of our parent's debt."

      Seriously, your generation is why we have this steaming pile of debt and an dismal foreign relation record.

    27. Re:A modest proposal by ScientiaPotentiaEst · · Score: 3, Informative

      Secondly, SS is just fine. It's running a surplus and can pay full benefits for the next 27 years.

      Actually not. SS is now entering the phase where more is being drawn than being contributed (somewhat ahead of schedule - http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/TRSUM/index.html). Further, there is no surplus - there hasn't been for many years. Federal law prohibits it ( http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/51264.pdf). Any surplus must by law be rolled into the general fund (referred to in the document as "borrowing from the Social Security trust fund"). Given that the federal government is currently in debt to the tune of approximately $14Trillion, there is no actual SS money accumulated anywhere.

      The situation is dire. Not only is the debt not being reduced, but the deficit is accelerating. Extra taxes aren't going to cover it (they'll probably make the situation worse). Medicare/Medicaid are in even worse shape - and the prior administration made that worse still by signing into law the Medicare Drug Prescription Act.

      Bleak indeed.

    28. Re:A modest proposal by Hamo · · Score: 1

      Wow, a less informed rant is hard to find.

      No it's not, just turn on Fox News and wait 5 minutes!

    29. Re:A modest proposal by Bill_the_Engineer · · Score: 2

      What do you mean sound like an uninformed jackass?

      I'm tired of people trying to start a generational fight. It's almost as bad as playing the "race card".

      He acts like the Baby Boomer's created social security. They didn't, their parents did. He acts like those of us that are not in our twenties anymore haven't paid a significant amount of money to social security already and don't mind losing all that money. We do.

      The reason social security is killing us is because the politicians used it as a piggy bank to borrow against to fund their pet projects. Not to mention, social security was expanded to fund people who are disabled regardless of age or work history (even children). Don't blame the retirees that are using social security as it was originally intended. On the other side of the equation, we are allowing our tax base to shrink. Politicians signed free-trade agreements that exported our jobs overseas. We are having a brain drain because of our broken immigration system that doesn't provide incentives for foreign students that graduate with a professional degree to stay. That same broken immigration system prevents migrant workers that are already in the country from getting work visas so they could not only work for a legal wage but to pay taxes (including FICA). This is insane. We expanded the outflow of money WHILE limiting the inflow of money into social security. While we all stand around and pretend we don't know why and just place blame on someone else. Newsflash! It is all of our faults.

      Then he starts his rant, which makes him sound more like a moron. For instance, the overwhelming majority of people old enough to draw a social security check are also old enough to have the original mortgage on their home already paid off. The seniors that I've seen foreclosed on were the ones who placed a second mortgage on their home because they were either conned into some financial scheme, or used it to pay off their or most likely their kid's credit card debt. Also these second mortgages don't even come close to the $500K that he throws around. Not to mention, banks usually love these types of foreclosure since the amount being foreclosed is almost always significantly less then the market value of the home. This is why senior citizens are the primary targets of predatory lenders.

      The people who are defaulting on their $500K mortgages are the 20-40 year olds who insist in purchasing a home that they can not afford. As for your student loans, you got an education from them (or you should have) and you should be required to pay them back. If you need someone to blame, then blame all the people that were your age that defaulted and created the requirement for this exception from bankruptcy protection to keep the student loan program around. Better yet, blame yourself. You agreed to the loan and maybe you should have considered community college.

      --
      These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
    30. Re:A modest proposal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You my friend are a complete idiot you need to get your sorry rear back in school. As a baby boomer I worked and paid into SS for 35 yrs as did the most of my generation. It's your sorry "millennial generation" that won't work and wanting a free ride like (Welfare & Medicaid) that is helping to hurt SS. Also did you even know that at one time that there was a SS surplus gathered during the baby boomer era that the Gov decided to borrow and spend the entire surplus and was never replaced. As to the politicians that were voted into the Gov It was you dumb down 27 yr old's that voted them into office simply because you know nothing about the past..

    31. Re:A modest proposal by coolmoose25 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Disclosure: I was born in the last year of the Baby Boom - 1964. I had the same argument you're making here with my dad 30 years ago. I could see the writing on the wall even then... I knew that Social Security would not "be there" for me like it was for him. I told him that I thought the way to fix the problem was pretty much what you're saying... The boomers should pay in until his generation died off. Then Social Security should have a stake put through it. It is a ponzi scheme, but not called that because it's government run. I still subscribe to this belief. I think when it's time for me to collect, they should kill the system for everyone. Then you and I can both stop paying, but I'll have sacrificed for the greater good. I still believe this. My dad's generation grew up in the depression, then had to fight WWII (which my dad did personally, flying B-17's over Europe). They lived under the threat of nuclear annihilation for most of the rest of their lives. They deserve their social security. Me and the rest of the boomers? Not so much. We grew up with relative wealth and security (except for that nuclear annihilation thing) and have had it pretty good. Most of us are baby heads. We're debt leveraged to the hilt. We're relative losers when compared to our parents. We don't really deserve Social Security. Perhaps our only saving grace would be to do as I describe and free you from the burdens of Social Security. Maybe then we can be a great generation after all. That'll leave you "millennials" to figure out how you can leave the world a better place. From the way you talk, you'll do worse than us. Crap... you're not even polite about screwing an entire generation!

      --
      Brawndo: It's what plants crave!
    32. Re:A modest proposal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > firearms take away strength advantages, and I bet you'd taste really good, once roasted.

      HAhahilarious. Real cute. Who will pay for your social security and medicare then?

      > just fairly crappy 401K's that are usually underfunded and insufficient to maintain a person in this
      > country - not that relatively meager SocSec payments are much better

      Do you realize that social security and mediacre 12.4% are 2.9% of your income respectively? And that's the lowest bracket. Oh sure, it looks like less, but that's just because your employer pays half out of your paycheck. How well do you think your 401k would look if you put that kind of money into it?

      > I don't really give a rat's ass whether or not you discharge your debts, as long as my tax dollars aren't backing them

      See, that's a funny sentiment... What if, instead, I were to say "I don't really give a rat's ass whether or not you saved for retirement properly..."? Oh wait, would probably trigger the same rant because that's basically what the parent said. But guess what social security is? Not that I really blame you too much; how can you save for retirement when the government takes all your money?

      Regardless, for all your grandstanding, you've got your hand out like everyone else and are willing to let this country fall apart (and kill and cannibalize too apparently) to get it. Go to hell.

    33. Re:A modest proposal by Mr.Intel · · Score: 1

      Here's a solution that hurts everyone equally: Pull the plug now. Stop making SS payments and stop collecting it from taxpayers wholesale. The older generation gets the pointy end of the stick and their kids get to clean up the blood on the floor while the grandkids try to salvage their careers when the economy tanks. The bright side of all that mess is that in a single generation, retirement becomes personal again and this wealth redistribution mumbo-jumbo looms over future generations no more. People can lampoon libertarians and constitutionalists all they want, but they have one thing right: people should take care of themselves. Failing that, the family infrastructure and private charities will suffice. The government has no business playing Robin Hood between the middle class and the poor/unfortunate.

      --
      ASCII tastes bad dude.
      Binary it is then.
    34. Re:A modest proposal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow. 27 and still that ignorant of how the world works? Jesus Christ on a cracker...

      You want to help the country? Slit your wrists and raise the average national intelligence a hair.

    35. Re:A modest proposal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed! You GenY'ers are on your own. We Gen X'ers hold no allegiances whatsoever.

    36. Re:A modest proposal by datsa · · Score: 1

      Exactly. What's the cutoff between "responsible" and "irresponsible" exactly? This proposal would make a lot more sense if you said that you should lose your benefits if you took out a $500K mortgage you couldn't afford (or approved one). Even that's a little rich, since a lot of people who got mortgages they couldn't afford were swindled and didn't realize their interest rates would shoot up the way they did.

    37. Re:A modest proposal by phantomcircuit · · Score: 1

      Actually you have that backwards the baby boomers payed into social security which was immediately payed out to their parents generation who never paid anything into the system. The entire thing is basically a pyramid scheme targeting the boomers.

    38. Re:A modest proposal by Goldsmith · · Score: 1

      Ah, so I shouldn't blame the people who were voted into office, nor the people who put them there. It was a blameless mismanagement? There was someone who decided to not only give themselves hefty pensions, but also grossly under-fund the pensions.

      Yeah, it is a remarkably small number of people with cushy government pensions. It's really hard to imagine how they could bankrupt local governments paying for that tiny, insignificant number of people. Yet somehow we managed to do it!

      There are cities in New Jersey and California which have had their governments removed due to crushing debt and corruption. Now, some people don't get to vote for their local (now court-appointed) government. Why is that? Who put those terrible, terrible administrations in power? Who was part of them?

      When the Boomers were the ones running the country, why weren't there better people around willing to serve?

    39. Re:A modest proposal by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1

      Buddy, You are conveniently forgetting YOU elected them politicians. Did I vote for the politicians who promised you heaven and earth for some trivial payroll tax? Did I ask you believe in that? I did not make the promise. You promised yourself by electing such politicians. So it is your problem. All of us will vote for the politician who promises to defund social security. You know damn well that it is a ponzi scheme. That is why you fight tooth and nail the simplest thing like exempting children not yet working from this social security mess. Or making it optional.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    40. Re:A modest proposal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're not familiar with Joathan Swift, are you?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal

    41. Re:A modest proposal by ptbarnett · · Score: 1

      Who put those terrible, terrible administrations in power? Who was part of them?

      Every voter did. Or at least a majority of them.

      You want someone to blame? Look in the mirror.

    42. Re:A modest proposal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am a "boomer", and I agree, though I am a late boomer, born in 1961. Thus, I'm in the group most likely to have the difference between what we contributed and what we'll receive in SSI be the worst it can be if SSI is scrapped. But, I agree that we have to scrap it: like all Ponzi schemes it is simply unsustainable where population growth levels off and life expectancy increases. A Ponzi scheme can only work with an exponential increase in new contributors.

    43. Re:A modest proposal by Goldsmith · · Score: 1

      Ok, I couldn't vote at the time, but I'm looking in the mirror...

    44. Re:A modest proposal by corbettw · · Score: 1

      Thank you for showing just why people under 30 are not to be trusted with important decisions. Now, go back and play with your XBox while the adults talk.

      --
      God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
    45. Re:A modest proposal by lgw · · Score: 1

      While I mostly agree with your rant, student loans for fresh graduates are a different deal than they were in our day - heck, they may be larger than a mortgage was in our day. The education bubble is next in the bubbble queue.

      While its easy to say "you should have known better than to take on crushing debt to get some degree that might not even help your earning power", it's also a bit unfair, since those entrusted with teaching them lied to them with near uniformity about this. It's fine to expect critical thinking, but when those who are supposed to be teaching critical thinking are the same ones screwing them, bit of sympathy is not misplaced.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    46. Re:A modest proposal by Paracelcus · · Score: 1

      Little boy, I worked and paid into the SS fund starting in 1960, and ending in 2002, I'm technically NOT a "boomer" but not a WWII gen either, I fought in Vietnam, I voted for Humphrey, I watched everything I believed in get turned into SHIT by the obscenely corrupt criminal cabal we in the USofA call a government!

      Take away the Social Security I and millions of others worked and paid for? Sonny Boy, I'll see you and all your spoiled punk brethren in HELL first!

      --
      I killed da wabbit -Elmer Fudd
    47. Re:A modest proposal by judoguy · · Score: 0
      I'm 57 and I'd love to get rid of SS and Medicare.

      I have kids. For me to collect, they will have to become tax slaves.

      If (most) everyone's income went up 16 percent, the economy wouldn't be an issue.

      --
      Peace is easy to achieve, just surrender. Liberty is much harder get/keep.
    48. Re:A modest proposal by buybuydandavis · · Score: 1

      Make it *insurance* and needs test it. It was always an entitlement program, not a pension program. Let's be honest about it, and stop a huge entitlement program which transfers wealth from the relatively poor, working young, to the relatively rich, idle old. Entitlements for the elderly are largely just preserving the inheritance of middle and upper middle class people. Let's means test and go after the estate when a person dies.

    49. Re:A modest proposal by digitalPhant0m · · Score: 1

      As a Gen X'er....

      Most of the people I know defaulting on $500k (or more) mortgages were/are people my age. People too stupid to see the writing on the wall, and made an idiotic investment.

      As for taking away SS and Medicare, sure. But when you do, who's going to feed, clothe and care for the old bastards? The Gen X'ers will, because the boomers are our parents.

    50. Re:A modest proposal by digitalPhant0m · · Score: 1

      I'd be inclined to say the same thing about millennials. "Fuck them" as a generation.

      They're self-centered and think they're entitled to the kinds of things everyone else has had to work for. I've come across a few millennials who seem to confuse ambition for wanting more stuff. They have this pretentiousness about them, that they're smarter than everyone who's come before, merely because they've played with more gadgets; and they're delusional, convinced they've got all the answers to fixing the world, like nobody in the history of the world hasn't already thought of all their ideas and have realized that they aren't necessarily practical or effective.

      I couldn't agree more!

    51. Re:A modest proposal by RicktheBrick · · Score: 1

      The Vietnam war had 58,245 Americans killed. That is at least 9 times what the combined total deaths from both wars we are now involved in. The vast majority of those casualties from the Vietnam war were boomers. How long would the present wars last if Americans lost over 16,000 deaths like they did in 1969. Are you forgetting all the major advancement made during the boomers time? The value of the integrated chip alone would support the retirement of all of the boomers. The parents of the boomers would all have to be in their late 80's at least so the vast majority of them are already dead. There is no way anyone can say that the boomers did not contribute to the welfare of this country and do not deserve their retirement or Medicare.

    52. Re:A modest proposal by Fallingcow · · Score: 1

      It's not actually that hard to fix Social Security. Bumping up the level of income that the tax applies to would fix it.

      Medicare's the real problem. Take a look at data on the projected increasing costs of both and you'll see that it's far, far worse off. It'll probably take several more rounds of healthcare reform to bring that under control--we simply can't afford to let our already-highest-in-the-world health care costs continue to increase at a greater rate than inflation.

    53. Re:A modest proposal by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      Just because you did it, he does not have to.

      He can leave the country, that makes much more sense than to go down with this ship.

      I don't want to copy paste my comment, but I can link to it - where I question why there isn't more outrage about the state of the Union.

      The other comments are also related but for a reason that is a bit different. Those threads do display the tendencies that are overwhelming on this forum. It's not good when so many people understand so little (if anything at all) about economics, there must be more discussions on this.

    54. Re:A modest proposal by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      All things considered, I believe the best course of action for all the people who are in this position - 20-40 is to seriously start thinking about what I did and move out of the country, stop paying all taxes in it, move all assets out of US dollars, skip it, start a business somewhere in Asia.

      It is much easier for any foreigner to start a business in Asia, than for a foreigner to start business in USA.

      Given your solution to his problem, I think my solution sounds much more enticing.

    55. Re:A modest proposal by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      There are only harsh solutions left. For the guy in his 20s-30s, 40s maybe it just makes sense to leave the country and start a business somewhere else, maybe in Asia.

      As to the problem with SS, it can be solved like so:

      means testing and switching people who genuinely need SS to survive to welfare

      Cut off everybody immediately from SS, also abolish all SS collecting taxes. Have people reapply for welfare if they must have this money to survive. Anybody who can survive without this money, they cannot have it.

      SS is welfare anyway, it's not a real savings account for example, there is no money there, so call it what it is and deal with it. Means testing has to be very strict as well: you own your house and have no mortgage payments? You can't have welfare. Sell your house, use the money to rent, etc.

      Sorry if people don't like it, but it's not like the 20-30-40 year olds do not have an OPTION. They do - they can LEAVE the country. Why pay into this?

    56. Re:A modest proposal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, that would be a great idea! Give you a reasonable interest rate (compounded) equivalent to U.S. Bond rates. The taxpayers will save BILLIONS! Whether you know it or not, what you paid in won't even touch what you'd likely get out under S.S., Medicare, etc.

    57. Re:A modest proposal by martin-boundary · · Score: 1
      No, it's not.

      In a pyramid scheme, the number of contributors grows exponentially. So for example 1 guy gets money from 4 guys. Then each of the 4 gets money from 4 others, for a total of 4x4 = 16 guys giving money to 4 guys. At the next level, it's 4x16 = 64 guys giving money to 16 guys. This is unsustainable because the number of guys contributing grows without bound.

      In a social security scheme, the number of guys contributing year in year out is approximately the same fraction of the total population, as is the number of guys receiving. This is therefore sustainable forever (barring political games etc).

      Think about it: even in 50 years, the fraction of old people in America will be roughly the same as today, and the fraction of young people will be roughly the same, so each of those young people would have to pay for roughly the same number of old people as today, or even as 30 years ago.

      Except for wars and such, there will never be a time in America where the fraction of young people will shrink enough and the fraction of old people will grow enough to turn this into a pyramid scheme.

      The real problems with SS are entirely political (and those problems are much harder to solve than pretending that SS is a pyramid scheme).

    58. Re:A modest proposal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you aren't seeing the writing on the wall. The Millenials outnumber the Boomers. And the Boomers population is only decreasing with time.

    59. Re:A modest proposal by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      “Nobody can be so amusingly arrogant as a young man who has just discovered an old idea and thinks it is his own.” - SJ Harris.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    60. Re:A modest proposal by florescent_beige · · Score: 1

      The system is pay-as-you go, which as far as I can tell the boomer generation never agitated to change. It means that the boomer bulge will have to be paid for by the current working generation. The boomers never had to fund a bulge which is why pay-as-you go was their selfish preference as was a low birth rate which compounds the problem.

      --
      Equine Mammals Are Considerably Smaller
    61. Re:A modest proposal by Totenglocke · · Score: 1

      No, the reason Social Security is killing us is because it was originally intended to supplement those who couldn't save much for when they could no longer work. Then it morphed into being "don't bother saving for retirement, Social Security will pay for your retirement". THAT is what killed it. Also, it was originally set up as a scam with the minimum age to collect being higher than the average life expectancy at the time - they never intended for many people to ever collect from it. I'm not saying that politicians taking money isn't exacerbating the problem, but it's not the main cause.

      --
      "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
    62. Re:A modest proposal by bar-agent · · Score: 1

      Dammit, where's my "Like" button? Dude's already modded up to 5, can't show my appreciation that way.

      (Not that we're supposed to mod on that basis, but who are we kidding here?)

      --
      i'd hit it so hard, if you pulled me out you'd be the king of britain [bash.org]
    63. Re:A modest proposal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a late boomer I love that idea. Just pay back to me what I put in adjusted for inflation, of course. I could then retire right now.

      I can see the argument, and as an individual citizen, you're absolutely entitled to what you've contributed.

      In reality, though, socking away $x dollars in your 'retirement drawer' every week, while also ringing up (2 * $x) on the credit card isn't going to balance in the end. The numbers have been well known for decades, and the fact that the politicians YOU'VE ELECTED haven't had the guts to confront them isn't an excuse.

      . If that doesn't work for you get your lazy ass back to work and pay for my retirement as I paid for your grandpas.

      You were able to pay for Grandma's retirement quite easily due to there (a)being vastly less of them than you guys and (b)the inheritance of an extremely wealthy, export-led driven economy. This time around, the ratio of workers to retirees is not so large, and a large percentage of 'workers' you count on to support your healthy retirements are, in fact, the extremely low paid immigrants that, for better or worse, were allowed into the country on your watch. Also, the economic situation we'll be inheriting from you is not quite as nice as what Grandma left for you.

    64. Re:A modest proposal by bored · · Score: 1

      Yah, and no one is willing to actually propose a solution because none of the solutions fit anyone's ideals. What I don't understand is how we can get into this completely fsked up situation where the government basically pays anything the "capitalist" society demands for health care and no one points this out. Its totally the worst of both worlds, no wonder it costs so much here, and the outcomes are so bad. At least they fixed the student loan fiasco. If the financial industry can't just caused a huge recession you can bet that would have been as big a fight as the health insurance reform bill was.

    65. Re:A modest proposal by bored · · Score: 1

      Well it also covers younger people who are unable to work, hence why its called "social security". It was suppose to keep grandma from living under a bridge. It was never meant to be a retirement plan. Why its been morphed into that I have no idea, but I'm pretty much in the camp that it should be more like a welfare program. You have a disability (if thats being to old to move well, then so be it) and you don't have any money then you get social security. I guess the original problem is that they even set a single "retirement" age rather than setting up some fairly basic tiers and medical guidelines. I'm skeptical of the simple, raise the retirement age argument, although the idea is basically right. I don't believe there should be a large portion of the population, that is fully capable of working for another 20 years siting around and not contributing to society (course there is always the argument that a lot of these people are providing valuable social services). Instead SS shouldn't kick in until it becomes apparent that someone probably doesn't have another 5-10 years to live. For that matter there are a number of 50 year olds that probably qualify.

    66. Re:A modest proposal by realperseus · · Score: 1

      As a late boomer I love that idea. Just pay back to me what I put in adjusted for inflation, of course. I could then retire right now. If that doesn't work for you get your lazy ass back to work and pay for my retirement as I paid for your grandpas.

      Nodding head.. .

      --
      "Trusting every aspect of our lives to a giant computer was the smartest thing we ever did.." Homer Simpson
    67. Re:A modest proposal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Polite about screwing an entire generation is relative.

      Someone raised us. Behavior is learned.

    68. Re:A modest proposal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck you.

      You're the sort of Boomer that has that sense of entitlement that makes me want to puke.

      The current generation busts ass, oftentimes at notable fractions of what your generation made. I started my position at 75% (Non inflation adjusted) of what some of my colleagues started making back in the 80s with associates. I couldn't even get the position without a bachelors that cost me tens of thousands of dollars.
      But heaven forbid we cut Medicare or Social security so you decrepit fucks can't get your gold plated diabeetus strips and whatnot.

      Your generation didn't stand up in the 80s and realize that getting things cheaper in China was a bad idea. You wanted your cheaper shit so you could keep living the dream. Now you want to keep living the dream on -our- backs too?

    69. Re:A modest proposal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your 401k investment is funded by national debt. Trilions of dollars were spent so the stock market is stable and assure that itgoes up. We have shipped our manufacturing overseas to keep it going up, waged wars and compromised our freedoms. If you still don't see it I refer you to banking stocks performance.

      MR

    70. Re:A modest proposal by tombeard · · Score: 1

      Well, right up till the 2007/8 crash. Or did I miss the /s

      --
      The reason we subjugate ourselves to law is to better procure justice. If law does not accomplish this purpose then it m
    71. Re:A modest proposal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then hire me like my grandpa hired you.

    72. Re:A modest proposal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      27 eh?

      Your generation has generally been the least likely to vote over the years. So, the people who are in power in government are doing the things (more or less) their constituents asked them to do. That's how it is supposed to work, more or less. We know it isn't working in your favor, but let's just take the general case for example.

      The point is, your "fucked" generation doesn't hardly vote. Maybe your generation is starting to wake up and will take your angst to the polls rather than spit out some utter bullshit about taking away hard-earned benefits. I earned them benefits, pal. I worked my ass off fishing for crab, washing dishes, and cleaning floors, and selling you kids gas when you were mooching off your parents and stuff your fat faces on McDees. Meanwhile, I picked and earned a degree that actually would lead to employment. Why would I turn my benefits over to you? What did you do to deserve them?

      You want to take away what I earned? Go ahead and try.. reach for my benefits pal and...maybe my generation will just vote in the people who will reform things in our favor, yet again.

      I have not, never did, and never will default on anything, friend. Do you think these boomers actually wanted to default? And since when did Social Security become synonymous with "generous".

      You forget that our generation is paying for your loans that you defaulted on. So who's fault is it that your student loans were wasted? Mine? I didn't tell you to go learn JavaScript.

      Vote, or shut the fuck up. I've looked up the other crap you post. Par for course.

    73. Re:A modest proposal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      .. blame yourself. You agreed to the loan ...

      I think that just about sums it up.

    74. Re:A modest proposal by YetAnotherBob · · Score: 1

      That's how Social Security has worked from day 1 (in 1934). The Feds have always spent the excess. They still do. There is still an excess, and one is expected for around 5 more years. What happens after that is the rub.

      Yes, it always was a Ponzi scheme. I expected in the 1970's that it would be bankrupt before I retired. That still looks about right.

      But for your modest proposal, do you really want to starve your parents to death? If so, you are one seriously deranged individual. I am sure they have a free room and board situation for you in Leavenworth Kansas. Enjoy!

      --
      Everybody knows 3 people with my name.
  24. First, he tangled with the health care industry by countertrolling · · Score: 1

    and now he’s going after big oil.??

    Oh puleeeze! Pull the other one.

    So much bullshit... And the zombies nod their heads... *GAG!*

    --
    For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    1. Re:First, he tangled with the health care industry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you didn't read the piece in full. What he said was more like, he tangled with the Healthcare Industry, he effectively lost, to our detriment. Now he is targeting the Oil Companies, we are screwed.

    2. Re:First, he tangled with the health care industry by countertrolling · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I read the rest. It's all bullshit. His "tangling" was nothing more than media dramatics. It is much more accurate to say he is entangled with the industry.

      --
      For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
  25. "outrages" by Lumpy · · Score: 1

    Yeah that reminded me why I dont pay attention to anything published by ZD or "tech republic" anymore. 0% content and 20% opinion that is designed to get ad clicks.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  26. Legalize Marijuana by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is he legalizing marijuana yet? I haven't listened to him since his election speech where I went from "the voice of a new america" to "one of those crazy on-line people".

    I know, wacky idea, right? It's not like we could legalize it, tax it at a dollar a gram, and have 7.5 billion dollars in extra tax income. Plus a reduction of costs in fighting the "war on drugs". Plus, if Amsterdam-style coffeeshop laws are implemented, it would revitalize businesses. No, none of that would happen.

    Wake me up when we are a real civilization. (Type 1 or above.)

    1. Re:Legalize Marijuana by Steauengeglase · · Score: 1

      We are already on the road to de-criminalization, but you will never see the Amsterdam-style coffeeshop widespread in the US. At lest not until Pfizer and Starbucks merge and you really do have medical records available from any terminal on Earth.

    2. Re:Legalize Marijuana by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Imagine every empty shopping center in america. Now imagine there's a coffeeshop in each one. Now imagine all the other businesses that will come. What idiot would turn down the business loan to the folks who want to open a sub shop next door? Or a music store? Or any number of other stores? Stores which can sell to other people in the area besides coffeeshop customers. Now imagine all those new, small businesses getting loans. And all the employees they'll need. All of whom will need houses or apartments in the area, as well as products and services of other businesses...

      Yes, if it's legal but anyone can sell it, that won't help anything. It'll just end up in Wal-Mart. But coffeeshops which only sell marijuana and need a license (oops, more revenue for the state) - those will be small businesses, all of which will need products, services, and support from other businesses to grow.

      Decrim is a joke. Imagine video games were "decriminalized" - nobody can make or sell them legitimately, but under-the-table stuff was ignored, maybe, if they felt like it. Right up until someone gets a hair up their butt over you having fun, and busts your game collection.

    3. Re:Legalize Marijuana by Altus · · Score: 1

      It is my belief that you could tax Marijuana at as much as $10 a gram successfully. If an oz of good pot costs $400 bucks right now and people buy it and the cost of producing that oz is mere dollars (even with grow lights and hydroponics its not that expensive, most of the cost goes into the black market, smuggling costs, security ect...) then you could likely tax the hell out of it and still have a thriving industry because people would pay that.

      --

      "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

  27. idiot author by hyperion2010 · · Score: 1

    The author of this is an idiot. He may have said something reasonable in the rest of the article but:

    "First, if Americans are traveling in volume via high-speed rail, then those systems will need as much security as air travel."

    Anyone who thinks this is a fucking idiot and needs a strong dose of Bruce Schneier.

    1. Re:idiot author by TheEyes · · Score: 1

      The author of this is an idiot. He may have said something reasonable in the rest of the article but:

      "First, if Americans are traveling in volume via high-speed rail, then those systems will need as much security as air travel."

      Anyone who thinks this is a fucking idiot and needs a strong dose of Bruce Schneier.

      Well, in one sense he is right; it's just in the wrong direction. What needs to happen is for air travel to lower their silly security theater until it matches more sensible rail security.

  28. Using Education as an Economic Scapegoat by eepok · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Education has two functions:

    (1) Give children sufficient information to make them better (as people and citizens of communities, cities, states, nations, and the world) than the prior generation.

    (2) Give children the information required to enter the job market.

    Education, and the children and teachers within, are not nor have they ever been tasked with shouldering the burden of the most in-debt and luxury-addicted nation in the world. They way education is being sold today, and now solidified by a president who's desperate to get support from the money-minded, is that we can create a Uber-WorkForce by hyper-educating, hyper-tracking, and hyper-testing our children.

    "Invest in the most profitable areas of education now and we'll be rich in the future! MONEY!!!! LUXURY!!!"

    This is genuinely impossible. Education cannot be treated as a competition ("Race to the Top", "Pay According to Results") and be expected to stay honest. Without honesty, we can't tell if new ideas are working. Moreover, children will eventually become normal, ordinary people with interests in love, humor, entertainment, politics, history, music, and so on... their K-12 over-education in science, technology, engineering, and math will not change them into a new generation of work-slaves.

    Putting the pressure, money, and focus on such a goal will be a complete waste. Focus on making them good *people* first and foremost (education in *real* history, philosophy [including religion], sociology) while also educating them in the various ways they can earn sufficient money to live their happy lives and the rest takes care of itself.

    And for the sake of cutting off some argument at the pass, I'm not advocating the cutting of STEM funding-- I'm saying that STEM subjects should not be over-invested... particularly at the cost of the education that is there to create a better society. Maybe one that doesn't allow itself to get into the mess we're in right now.

    The goal of education is make good people who can be productive in the job market, not workers who are passable human beings.

    1. Re:Using Education as an Economic Scapegoat by gmuslera · · Score: 2

      Public education shouldnt be only for children, in a changing world educating adults into the new realities should be a priority too. In fact, that should be taken into account at the moment of educating children, there are chances that what they learnt as children becomes obsolete (or not as profitable/needed/etc) when they are growns up. Makes me remember the end of the song Gun Shy, where the Army was good making soldiers, but not so good at making men.

    2. Re:Using Education as an Economic Scapegoat by avandesande · · Score: 3, Insightful

      How much can education do for the half of the population with below average intelligence? Is it cheaper to put these people on welfare than to provide them with decent labor/manufacturing jobs?

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    3. Re:Using Education as an Economic Scapegoat by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 1

      Putting the pressure, money, and focus on such a goal will be a complete waste. Focus on making them good *people* first...

      It's not clear that we're doing that bad of a job in education. Asian-American students (as a class) are scoring as well as students in Asian countries. White Americans are scoring as well as their counterparts in Europe. Yes, it's a tragedy that African-American and Hispanic students are falling behind. But lumping in their stats and comparing to other countries without adjustment for the sociological factors (familial disfunction, linguistic shortcomings, poverty, etc.) leads to mis-diagnosis of the problem. Plus, having all of these "innovative" people here still hasn't stopped the decline of our industrial base.

      --
      That is all.
    4. Re:Using Education as an Economic Scapegoat by Shotgun · · Score: 2

      That would be YOUR goal for education. And mine, also, just for the record.

      The goal of education to the Federal government is another point of control. There is no point to the Dept. of Education. This country excelled just fine until it was created in 1970. Even then, it was declared insane to take money from citizens, launder it through a Federal bureaucracy and then hand it back to the states. The local government taxes me for schools. The state taxes me for schools. The fed taxes me for schools. Each has a separate bureaucracy to handle the collection and distribution of that money. And yet, the schools are still teaching essentially the same facts they were teaching 75 years ago, just with added layers of bureaucracy to handle the mandates that change every time we elect a new President.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    5. Re:Using Education as an Economic Scapegoat by benjamindees · · Score: 1

      This is the basis of Christian socialist technocratic utopianism: we can waste all available energy and resources keeping old people alive indefinitely with free healthcare and having more kids than we can feed and opening the borders to immigrants and as long as we educate them then technology (or Jesus) will save us and failing that then we can just bomb some country full of brown people and take their resources, amen.

      --
      "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
    6. Re:Using Education as an Economic Scapegoat by fermion · · Score: 2
      Arguably education has two purposes higher than this. One is to give kids a common sets of experiences so that they have the skills to interact in the particular society in which they live. For some kids this means high end private schools in which they can be trained along with their peers to live what many would call the extremely successful life. For others this means a public school education in which many of us learn to interact with people of different genders, cultures, and economic situations. As such things are, for most of us, going to be requirements in our work life, learning these skills early and developing them probably should be a stated and funded goal.

      As second higher, though perhaps crass, purpose is to keep workers who would otherwise be low wage earners out fo the workforce. One implication of the never ended need for education is that full time employment may not begin until a person is 20 years old, even if they do not go to college. Welfare programs, which no one seems willing to cut, might mean a person is retired by 60, and perhaps only spend 30 of those years working. Through promotion of individual participating in the free market rather than being given a job by pseudo-governmental corporations we might increase the number of the persons who are unwillingly stuck at school and increase useful productivity, this would require a rethink of the educational process. One idea to graduate people at 17 instead of 18. If we had a robust market that promoted the sole proprietorship this might work.

      While I do not like competition, it is incorrect to say that education is not competitive. It has to be. Ideally education will give equal opportunity to all kids, and those with the skills and merit, not just proper parents and money, will excel. We have to do this. It is not possible to just select the white boys from the most agreeable parents and educate then to be the future leaders. We know that while this works, it has huge opportunity costs in terms of wasted potential productivity, and puts the US at an economic disadvantage. So we must have competitive in which the best rise to the top where they receive special educational opportunities. Is this process fair? Of course not. Certain students will have advantages no based on personal merit. But that is the way the world works. if an effort is made to make the process equitable, we wil have a few innovators and leaders we would not ordinarily have harnessed.

      So the pressure, money and focus is to insure that opportunities are given to all kids so that, if they have merit, they will have the opportunity to grow, innovate, and hopefully make the world a better place. In this sense the competition is not about tests or growth, but about building creative innovative minds that can be the next Lisa Meitner.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    7. Re:Using Education as an Economic Scapegoat by outsider007 · · Score: 1

      Actually it's cheaper to grind up the dumb kids and feed them to the smart kids.

      --
      If you mod me down the terrorists will have won
    8. Re:Using Education as an Economic Scapegoat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Show some fucking initiative as an adult and you won't need to go to a public school to handle the changing world.

    9. Re:Using Education as an Economic Scapegoat by jd · · Score: 1

      I disagree on a number of your points. I argue that education should first and foremost be concerned with maximizing the ability of each individual (within reason - resources are finite). Let being "better people" be a product of better understanding rather than a product of what the teaching generation thinks might be better.

      I also argue that maximal education will take care of the job market. The job market shifts, so teaching to what is needed now won't help. It takes 18-20 years to get through the educational system from start to finish (excluding PhDs and medical qualifications). Trying to optimize for where we might be 18 years from now is a joke - futurologists can't even get technology right a single decade ahead. Worse, people will remain in the job market for 30+ years and will often have very little supplemental education in that time. The world moves on, but employees generally don't. To counter this, people need transferrable skills and research skills - neither of which are particularly valuable to the market per se but which will enable people to remain valuable by staying current on their own.

      Education cannot be treated as competition, I agree, but not entirely for the reason you give. When a person learns to compete, they learn the skills to exploit the rules. A trivial example is sprinting. Why do racers lean forwards at the end? Easy - they can use their height to have some part of them cross the line before their feet do. A 6' tall athlete can then gain an advantage over a 5' tall athlete, even when their speed on the ground is absolutely identical.

      When students study, they're studying how to get the best grade, which means giving the desired answer (whether or not the answer is correct), memorizing key words that can be used to score bonus marks, learning the standard forms of exam questions, researching past papers for patterns, etc. Actually knowing the subject is worth very little.

      If you want education to be effective, grading must be on the advancement that individual has made in their knowledge relative to where they were previously, with respect to where you would expect their understanding to be given what they were taught. In a theoretical maximal education system, a student who has been taught as much as that given student could be expected to learn and understand should score 100% in respect to where they should be from where they were. Anything further shows greater understanding than had been expected and the student is therefore being under-taught.

      The syllabus should define core areas that have to be understood before anything else can be truly comprehended (in the same way the trunk of a tree is what allows you to have branches), but that is all it should define. Different people learn different concepts at different rates with different prior knowledge being required. If you want to get close to maximizing how much you learn, you can't be shoved into branches that hold no interest and provide no momentum. It will merely damage your interest in the subject and therefore hinder your ability to learn the things you do well.

      There's plenty of evidence that the brain will develop (and expand) in heavily utilized areas, which strongly suggests that not only is the brain accomodating the specific information but is also increasing the capacity to learn more.

      I argue that it is in eliminating teaching practices that damage ability and focussing on areas that enhance capacity that education can do the most good. It should not only increase the ability to learn but also increase how long you will be able to learn rapidly and increase the effective lifespan of the brain before aging causes impaired ability.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    10. Re:Using Education as an Economic Scapegoat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And right along with that comes the quality and standard of living for the average student. There IS a direct correlation between scholastic achievement and the quality of life and income sectors of society, and it has nothing to do with whether computers are in the classroom.

      Simple fact of any argument for improving education is, if you raise the lowest rung of the social-economic ladder, the lowest common denominator of society, the perception by that sector that they are fairing better than they were translates to perceived and actual wealth for an environment devoid of such things. Think trickle up effect.

      Then again, the US is built to be a class society. Unless the Corporations want to cut their profits or Executive pays, and raise the lower income bracket a bit, I don't see, or expect greed to go out of style in the 21st Century. That in turn, requires that the Government handle it

    11. Re:Using Education as an Economic Scapegoat by pseudorand · · Score: 1

      Though the original purpose of education in America may have been to have a not-too-stupid-to-vote public (since all white men were allowed to vote, a novel idea at the time), education in America for the past half-century or so simply serves to get the kids out of the house so mom can go to work, just like dad. And no, that's not a women's lib issue. It's about increasing the labor supply without increasing the number of mouths to feed, thereby keeping the cost of labor relatively lower.

      The result has been a sharp decline in the relative standard of living and distribution of wealth. It now takes two incomes for a family to get by in America, and it's getting worse every day. Supposed "home ownership" has been declining too if you subtract the portion of our homes actually owned by the bank. Government-subsidized home ownership simply drove up prices and put us all in debt (supposedly 'good' debt) to keep us working. Employer-sponsored health insurance does the same thing (better not quit or you'll lose your coverage. Unless you're really young and really healthy, you won't find any reasonably priced insurance in the market.).

      Education was simply the first step in a long-running conspiracy by very rich people who control the planet to enslave us all. You might say "but life ain't so bad here in the U.S.". And you're somewhat correct. But 200+ years ago we had an entire nation full of resources free for the taking (my apologies to Native Americans and Mother Nature) and a supposedly free country where people (well, white men, anyway) could build a life for themselves. Yet wealth didn't naturally distribute itself anywhere close to evenly. Today we have 90%+ of the wealth in the hands of the same 1% of the population that got all the wealth when it was distributed under monarchies and dictatorships.

      And it's getting worse. We were given a little to get us to develop this "great nation", but now they're in the process of taking it away. We have lots of material things, but time is so hard to come by that there's no way we could survive without out cars and dish washers and vacuum cleaners and washing machines. Some of us see our families 2/7 days a week, but we don't get to teach our kids a profession -- that have to go to college for that. Which involves more debt, just to make sure that if we happen to pay off our home loans before we die our kids still enter into the workforce with some huge monthly payment to keep 'em working.

      When Lincoln may have outlawed slavery by race, they just figured out that race was too limiting anyway. Why just enslave black people when you can have the almost entire population at your disposal? And just as black slaves were taught that they were stupid and not good enough in order to keep them in line, we're all taught that separation from our families and debt and dependence on machines and an employer-sponsored healthcare system are part of some fare system that we've all chosen to participate in.

      But it's not true. Wake Up America! Demand not just restoration of the middle class, but creation of a true middle class with both the financial and voting power to choose our own destines.

      Of course I haven't a single policy idea on what exactly we need to do to make that happen, but I'm quite certain we're all the victims of something and I'm eager to do something about it as soon as someone figures out what that is.

    12. Re:Using Education as an Economic Scapegoat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Half of the population is going to be below average intelligence no matter what, as long as average intelligence is somewhat close to median intelligence.

    13. Re:Using Education as an Economic Scapegoat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He focused on this in the speech because of the report that came out last week that only 21% of 12th graders are proficient in science and only about 1-2% would qualify in the advanced section. It was mearly tailoring the speech to a recent news item.

      That being said, I think that schools can do very little to actually affect a child's character and their time would be better spent dealing with information and leaving the character building to the kid's parents.

    14. Re:Using Education as an Economic Scapegoat by guanxi · · Score: 1

      Putting the pressure, money, and focus on such a goal will be a complete waste. Focus on making them good *people* first and foremost (education in *real* history, philosophy [including religion], sociology) while also educating them in the various ways they can earn sufficient money to live their happy lives and the rest takes care of itself.

      And for the sake of cutting off some argument at the pass, I'm not advocating the cutting of STEM funding-- I'm saying that STEM subjects should not be over-invested... particularly at the cost of the education that is there to create a better society. Maybe one that doesn't allow itself to get into the mess we're in right now.

      Wow. I agree, but I'm surprised to see it on Slashdot. I agree completely: STEM is necessary for our economy and wonderful to learn, but critical thinking and an understanding of the world is essential to our society and civilization. I know too many STEM graduates who embarrass themselves in those areas (and many are too arrogant about their abilities to even consider that they might be missing something).

      One point I'd nitpick about:

      Education has two functions:

      (1) Give children sufficient information to make them better (as people and citizens of communities, cities, states, nations, and the world) than the prior generation.

      (2) Give children the information required to enter the job market.

      IMHO, the primary function of education, at least through an undergraduate degree, is to learn these skills: Learning, critical thinking, and creating (new knowledge, art, etc.). Most of the info we learn over those 16 years is forgotten, but those skills stay with us. You know the old 'give a man a fish / teach a man to fish' saying ...

    15. Re:Using Education as an Economic Scapegoat by laddiebuck · · Score: 1

      Somehow that post is terribly, tragically ironic in light of your sig.

    16. Re:Using Education as an Economic Scapegoat by k6mfw · · Score: 0
      >How much can education do for the half of the population with below average intelligence?

      uhmmm, whatever the intelligence level is for The Population, half will be below average. That's simply statistics.

      --
      mfwright@batnet.com
    17. Re:Using Education as an Economic Scapegoat by DCFusor · · Score: 1
      You've just asked a question I and some other smart people have been thinking long and hard about for a long time, but every time someone comes up with what they think is a good answer to it -- someone else easily shoots it full of holes. It's quite frustrating, given human nature and all, and the nature of evolving tech that means that even many of the smarter people at some point won't really have much to do that's worth paying them for as automation takes over more and more. I've even brought it up here, but it seems there's not many in the audience who even understand the question.

      I don't think this is a conservative/liberal issue. I don't think it's a religious issue. Human nature figures in hard, as does capitalism. We're farting around the edges of this problem, but in the limit, there's no motivation for someone to build this giant, fully automated factory that turns out all the world needs (well the stuff to survive, not arts and culture), because at that point, the capitalist system has no way to reward that guy -- no one has a paying job!

      My own leanings are conservative (not republican!), non-welfare, and Christian, but I don't think that matters to intelligent discussion of this question, actually, and comparisons between this and that belief system just bring noise to it, not answers.

      I don't see how you fix the human nature problem. Create a way for those who are mostly a waste of time to get paid to stay out of the way of the rest, and many who could contribute will find ways to get on the dole when the system can't yet support that -- after all, they are smart. You can see that now with SS disability, a lot of smart people know how to "fail" the tests for psychological issues and I know about 3 who did that -- who are some of the smartest and potentially productive people I know.

      Capitalism is the only system that ever worked, ever -- even in communist countries. But this whole concept breaks it, or more accurately, can't happen under capitalism naturally. Unless I'm missing something here.

      You raise a very difficult issue which has completely stumped many of the best minds I know, and they have diverse backgrounds and belief systems. We do share the idea that the star trek world, where no one really has to work would be nice to have happen, and would like to promote it -- but how to get there from here? That's the big one.

      --
      Why guess when you can know? Measure!
    18. Re:Using Education as an Economic Scapegoat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      particularly at the cost of the education that is there to create a better society. Maybe one that doesn't allow itself to get into the mess we're in right now.

      All right, I will bite: What subjects should have been taught in school to avoid "the mess we're in"? (quoted because I can think of more than one mess, and don't know which one you mean...)

      The goal of education is make good people who can be productive in the job market, not workers who are passable human beings.

      Everyone can agree on your platitudes. Try giving a specific suggestion that more than 30% of people agree is a good idea. It is far harder than you think.

    19. Re:Using Education as an Economic Scapegoat by NunyoBidnez · · Score: 1
      From an article I read some years ago about the 6 real societal functions of modern education:
      1. 1) The adjustive or adaptive function. Schools are to establish fixed habits of reaction to authority. This, of course, precludes critical judgment completely. It also pretty much destroys the idea that useful or interesting material should be taught, because you can't test for reflexive obedience until you know whether you can make kids learn, and do, foolish and boring things.
      2. 2) The integrating function. This might well be called "the conformity function," because its intention is to make children as alike as possible. People who conform are predictable, and this is of great use to those who wish to harness and manipulate a large labor force.
      3. 3) The diagnostic and directive function. School is meant to determine each student's proper social role. This is done by logging evidence mathematically and anecdotally on cumulative records. As in "your permanent record." Yes, you do have one.
      4. 4) The differentiating function. Once their social role has been "diagnosed," children are to be sorted by role and trained only so far as their destination in the social machine merits - and not one step further. So much for making kids their personal best.
      5. 5) The selective function. This refers not to human choice at all but to Darwin's theory of natural selection as applied to what he called "the favored races." In short, the idea is to help things along by consciously attempting to improve the breeding stock. Schools are meant to tag the unfit - with poor grades, remedial placement, and other punishments - clearly enough that their peers will accept them as inferior and effectively bar them from the reproductive sweepstakes. That's what all those little humiliations from first grade onward were intended to do: wash the dirt down the drain.
      6. 6) The propaedeutic function. The societal system implied by these rules will require an elite group of caretakers. To that end, a small fraction of the kids will quietly be taught how to manage this continuing project, how to watch over and control a population deliberately dumbed down and declawed in order that government might proceed unchallenged and corporations might never want for obedient labor.
    20. Re:Using Education as an Economic Scapegoat by realperseus · · Score: 1

      Show some fucking initiative as an adult and you won't need to go to a public school to handle the changing world.

      You'll be eating this post in 20 years.. .

      --
      "Trusting every aspect of our lives to a giant computer was the smartest thing we ever did.." Homer Simpson
    21. Re:Using Education as an Economic Scapegoat by penguinchris · · Score: 1

      I really like your ideas for better education - when I was a TA in grad school I taught like that (to the extent that my limited time and other resources allowed). The reason I was able to do so is that I had no direct supervision and no specific syllabus for the class (it was geology 101 lab but included short lectures and other things not typical of a lab class), and I could be as flexible as I wanted with the grading and so on. Some students responded very well, and some didn't - many students came expecting a class where you could do all the tricks you mention that don't involve actual learning but which result in a good grade in a typical class.

      There are several barriers to this working in the "real world" of teaching, though, by which I mean below the university level. First is that schools have all sorts of standards and mandates they have to meet, meaning ultimately teaching to the standardized tests. Second is that most teachers are given very little freedom, no matter how idealistic they are, and can't take any sort of risk.

      Third is that teachers do a ton of work for very little pay. Assignments are designed around being easy to grade, and it can still take hours a day - grading things properly as you suggest will take too much time, even if the number of assignments is greatly reduced (as it should be). The solution, I think, is to hire more teachers - and pay them more so that better people are attracted to teaching - and build more schools, so that class sizes are smaller. And no one will be willing to pay for that.

    22. Re:Using Education as an Economic Scapegoat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem with your argument is that you could use it at any point in history, including during the dark ages or before the advent of near-universal literacy. Universal education improves the lives of almost everyone even if the major results are a couple generations down the road.

    23. Re:Using Education as an Economic Scapegoat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While some people have learning disabilities, intelligence is like a muscle, the more it's used the stronger it gets. Also, the national average intelligence isn't some fixed value. If you educate everyone, then the average intelligence WILL got up. Also, welfare currently doesn't have 1/2 the population sucking on it. Why do you assume that if people were smarter we'd have more of them on welfare? I can't even begin to fathom how that would work. I CAN tell you how it wouldn't work: educated people have better chances to succeed and better chances to break out of the space society has slotted them into. An educated citizen is LESS likely to need welfare, not more, even if they're below average.

      Education, unlike any other resource, is not finite. Just because we educate one person doesn't mean we can't educate someone else. We should be giving it away for free. If nothing else it would give our street people somewhere to be warm in the winter.

    24. Re:Using Education as an Economic Scapegoat by jd · · Score: 1

      I agree it would require more teachers - I'd reckon a ratio of 1:10 would be about right - and that it would require far better pay. And I also agree that almost nobody would be willing to accept the cost, even though it would produce a far superior workforce and therefore a far superior economy. It'd be tough to push an idea like this through even if you could prove beyond doubt that the extra money made would offset the entire additional cost -- and I'm not completely sure it would.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    25. Re:Using Education as an Economic Scapegoat by avandesande · · Score: 1

      That's cute, but what is the more tyrannical, welfare or maintaining a manufacturing base in the US?

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    26. Re:Using Education as an Economic Scapegoat by avandesande · · Score: 1

      Of course I believe all people should have the opportunity to be educated to their capability, but diluting secondary schools and universities with degrees that anyone can get (and go into non dischargeable debt) is counterproductive.

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
  29. The other demolished man by Bieeanda · · Score: 1

    Looser, said the Loser.

  30. real change: less pay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    for all of you subcontractors and government workers, in the end, this boils down to less pay for you and more pay for people in emerging technologies.
     
    most non DHS offices live on a very tight budget as is (hence the constant subcontracting), and this move is only going to tighten the belts of the average worker, not those at the top.
     
    government agencies that actually provide a service/product are going to lose funding so that it can be given away for social services; given to people who have no product to provide.
     
    the hiring and salary freeze from 2 months ago already hit our office, as people are declining gov't jobs to stay as contractors. in the end, this is bad for the nation, as the gov't is now not getting the best people. contractors will come and go, and those with the best/most experience are turning down jobs because they can still get a small raise through their contractor.

    1. Re:real change: less pay by benjamindees · · Score: 1

      government agencies that actually provide a service/product

      lol

      --
      "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
  31. OMG! Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    OMG, you mean a politician might not be living up to his promises?!?!! Holy shit!

    When will people learn to stop believing politicians from the beginning instead of pretending like it is some sort of surprise that they let you down after you bend over and vote for them?

    There is exactly one qualification for becoming an elected politician: a deep, all-consuming lust for power. That's it.

    Politicians (of any party or none, it makes absolutely no difference) make promises for exactly one reason: to help them get into and maintain power. The only incentive they ever have to keep a promise is if for some reason their propaganda machine isn't working properly and they feel a need to impress a few voters.

    If you want a politician that isn't going to fail you, then the only recourse is open source governance. Your other alternative is to keep voting for politicians and wondering why they keep screwing you over.

    1. Re:OMG! Really? by theaveng · · Score: 1

      Already have "open source governance". All laws are freely available to anyone who wants to read them.

      --
      FOX NEWS.com should be BANNED from television and internet. Have the Congress take it over and give us Truespeak.
    2. Re:OMG! Really? by tragedy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Disturbingly, that's not as 100% true as you think. There are some cases of local laws in various places also being privately held copyrighted material and/or "trade secrets" of various organizations. The most common example of this are laws covering zoning and construction written by local engineering forms which then charge money for copies. The bigger concern isn't petty local corruption like that, however, it's actually things like case law and various binding legal interpretations by the legislative and executive branch. Case law has traditionally largely only been accessible by contracting with private firms with virtual monopolies on republishing them. Aside from that, we're increasingly seeing (or not seeing) more and more binding decisions being made by secret courts and various executive offices which in some cases aren't even accessible by Congress. We're also more and more seeing what amounts to superuser permissions to create binding policy equivalent to laws being handed off to more and more agencies.

      Consider no fly lists. We know that certain people aren't allowed on airplanes. We don't know which people, and we don't know why, and we don't know which things we might do that might get us put on the list, or on other lists which we don't even know about. The rationale in that particular example is that flying is a privilege, not a right, and therefore having it taken away is not a punishment. Clearly that's a load of nonsense. Traveling about the country is certainly a right, and removing of the more convenient ways to do that is a curtailment of that right. If that argument is faulty, that means that it's acceptable to refuse registered voters entrance to polling places because it only inconveniences them and they can find another way to vote. Even if being able to board planes is a privilege and not a right, removal of privileges that everyone enjoys by default still qualifies as a punishment by any sane definition.

    3. Re:OMG! Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While that matches the letter of the definition of open source, generally it is understood that open source also means that anyone can contribute to the code and either incorporate their contribution into the trunk or start a fork.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source_governance

      That does not appear to be an option in current governance.

    4. Re:OMG! Really? by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

      I wish. The law concerning what state my home is required to be in to be sold is not available for free. I must buy a number of copyrighted works from private companies (many non-profits, but then the MPAA and RIAA are non-profits as well and we see how much they look after the general interests of the people). The electrical code is an example of one you have to pay for. The law says you have to be NEC compliant, but doesn't define that. It essentially gives force of law to a private company and requires the public pay the private company to find out what the law is.

      A number of executive organizations are the same. Regulations have the force of law, so what the EPA says, or the FCC, or the FAA has the force of law (assuming that what they say follows the general laws giving them the power to regulate). And those regulations are more accessible than the private ones, but much harder to get and parse than if all laws were in one place.

      Add that to "case law" where it would take either great time or some expense to be able to see the law how those who enforce it see it. Personally, I'd like to abandon case law. Either the finding gets mentioned directly in the law, overturns the law completely, or we shouldn't have it. The law isn't "freely available" until it is one place, not scattered in judicial findings, private papers, countless regulatory bodies, oh, and the law itself, if anyone reads that anymore.

    5. Re:OMG! Really? by Americano · · Score: 1

      Anybody *can* contribute to our current system of governance.

      In fact, I'd suggest that, for the average person, there are far lower requirements for getting your input incorporated into your government's laws than it would be for the average person to sit down and submit a patch to the Linux kernel.

      The former requires persistence and persuasiveness. The latter requires persistence and persuasiveness AND a lot of expertise, experience, and skill. I'm not so certain that "open source software" would benefit from the "anybody can submit anything they like" model you suggest is the norm.

      There's a reason why the term "benevolent dictator" has been applied to the leads of many open source projects. It's not because of their permissive policies regarding commits to the main trunk.

    6. Re:OMG! Really? by cmarkn · · Score: 1

      This is why we have the Second Amendment: to protect the right of every citizen to have the tools and training they need in order to contribute to the base or create a fork.

      --
      People should not fear their government. Governments should fear their people.
    7. Re:OMG! Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The former requires money and influence.

      FTFY

    8. Re:OMG! Really? by PyroMosh · · Score: 1

      Surely you must realize the reason for this? It may not apply in every case, but it makes sense for an congress to set up a loose framework law that establishes an organization like the FAA, FCC, FDA, or FTC, then give that body the power to regulate with force of law.

      When you have an area that is technical, or highly specialized, it makes sense to have our legislators, who are (mostly) not experts in these fields delegate the fine points to an agency staffed with genuine experts.

      Also, regulations are much easier to implement and change than laws are. If the FAA wants to change something like the requirements for storage of aviation gas, it has a process it follows, but basically it just does it. It doesn't require a period of debate, and an up or down vote of people that probably doesn't even understand the underlying issues.

      It makes sense to have different levels of rules. You put your more important rules at the top and have a higher bar to pass / change or repeal them. Your more technical, specialized, or less critical rules, you put at a lower level, and they're administered by specialists.

      I do agree with your point about standards set by private companies having defacto force of law. It seems like a bad idea on the surface. But it still makes sense that if a credible group like NEC has done the work, and it's acknowledged to make sense, and be the gold standard for the area, to just cite it rather than re-inventing the wheel.

    9. Re:OMG! Really? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      I thought my point when I talked about case law made my position a little more clear, but I didn't explicitly state it about the regulations as well. All they'd have to do to please me is link to a free version. I think all the laws should be online so the link would be a literal hyperlink, but if the laws are offline, a properly cited work available wherever that person is sitting down reading the law would be sufficient as well. But that's not how it works. In fact, I have even asked city inspectors about the regulations they work under and how I could see them, and they said they are not allowed by the NEC to share the books with constituents.

      I have no problem with regulations per se. I have a problem with regulations as implemented today. The law should be accessible. It should be written so that the average high school graduate would be able to read and understand them. Yes, even the technical ones. If not, then we are no longer a democracy.

    10. Re:OMG! Really? by PyroMosh · · Score: 1

      That's all reasonable, and I can agree with all of it, except the end.

      We have regulations that regulate nuclear facilities, biological weapons research, and all manner of deeply technical and dangerous stuff. They can't all be "high school graduate" level.

  32. meh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't have much time for fiction these days. I've come to the realization over the past month that politicians and news services don't care about truth. If they can't select facts to support their views, they will bend facts. If they can't bend facts, they will make up new ones. I don't know if this is an immutable human problem, or just a symptom of the current sad state of our world.

    I would get involved, but I'm an engineer. If you don't give a damn about truth there's nothing I can do for you.

    1. Re:meh by oldmac31310 · · Score: 1

      Sadly it this is not confined to only politicians and news services. I come across fact benders too often in both my professional and personal life. But I think it has always been the sad state of the world, just nowadays it is easier to catch people lying - and - now they don't care if they are caught. There has been an erosion of that old fashioned concept of the conscience. Meh indeed!

      --
      http://www.acetonestudio.com
  33. More like WTF? by TerraByte13 · · Score: 1

    Yeah, read it an concluded WTF? I am traumatized by this outrageous title!

  34. Outrage? by oldmac31310 · · Score: 1

    I RTFA and apart from the fact that it was pretty much a waste of time, I urge Mr. Gewirtz to consult a thesaurus and find some other words to use in place of 'outrage'.

    --
    http://www.acetonestudio.com
  35. Four meaningless rants to draw attention by damn_registrars · · Score: 5, Informative
    In summary, his four complaints in order were:
    • Manufacturing - and the possibility that much of it might go away for good from the US
    • TSA pat-downs at the airports and Obama not promising to make them go away for good
    • High speed wireless internet initiatives that do not explicitly include net neutrality promises from the POTUS himself
    • An energy policy with benchmarks over 20 years in the future

    Now exactly why much of that matters to most "techies" is beyond me. Really most of it doesn't mattter to most techies.

    However it does draw eyes to the website. And I noticed there was a Michele Bachmann ad here on slashdot last night, and this seems to go well with her sales pitch as well. Since president lawnchair has already caved to everything that the GOP has asked for to date, they need to find something to get excited about for the future.

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    1. Re:Four meaningless rants to draw attention by srmalloy · · Score: 1

      It's interesting to note, though, that Obama talked about how high-speed rail would allow you to travel "without the pat-downs". I would have expected that he would be in the loop about the TSA's desire to extend airport-style screening to both rail and bus terminals, or that they've already carried out pilot tests doing just that. It makes the President look as if he's losing control when he doesn't appear to be aware what his own administration is doing.

    2. Re:Four meaningless rants to draw attention by cfulmer · · Score: 1

      And, he's wrong on (1). Absent the current economic downturn, US manufacturing output is at an all-time high. But, just like automation has hugely decreased the number of people involved in agriculture (in the 1700's, it was about 95% of the population; today, it's about 2%), it's also hugely decreased the number of people involved in manufacturing. Sure, we reach full employment by forcing GM, Ford and Chrysler to hand-manufacture all their cars and by prohibiting the use of combines and tractors on farms. But, somehow, I don't think that would make us better off.

  36. I'll make my own political decisions thanks ... by BitZtream · · Score: 2

    Last night's State of the Union Address contained ten things (and four outrages) technical professionals need to know about the President's plans, and how his policies might affect you, your employer, and your family well into the future.

    Thanks for telling me how I should feel about political issues, but go fuck yourself.

    So far I've thought Obama has been a tool for most things, but useful for some. The irony of it all is, theres always someone telling me he's a bad guy for it, the only factor that determines which things are bad is the political orientation of the source.

    I, nor does anyone else, need zdnet to tell me what to get pissed off about. If you weren't already upset about this things, don't be. You were ignorant before a zdnet manipulated you by carefully feeding you portions of a speech in order to promote their view point, you should stay that way. Get the truth if you can find it, but that often means you have to keep an open mind and carefully consider the source and their political agenda, but we'll all end up a whole lot better off if we start voting for politicians who actually DO what we WANT them to do, rather than telling us they'll do one thing or someone else telling us they'll be the right guy for the job.

    If you want to be pissed off about what you think he's doing, fine, listen to the address and make your own decisions, but for the love of god don't go read some manipulative spew from some (especially in this case) opinion article publication presented as if its a public service announcement for the dangers coming at us from the president.

    I'm not saying he didn't make some douchebag statements, but you need to make the determination about what makes him a good guy or a douche bag yourself, not because ZDNet told you too. People voting because of what someone else told us to do because of a newspaper, magazine, or TV endorsement because they are lazy and ignorant are part of the problem that put us in the mess to begin with.

    --
    Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
  37. A few thoughts on the matter by plopez · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Here are my thoughts on the matter.

    First off, the biggest obstacle to American success is China and their unfair trade practices. By keeping their currency pegged to the US dollar at artificially low rate they are creating trade barriers to real free trade. One argument to let them get away with it is that they are a developing nation. This is false, even before they opened up to western trade China had a huge infrastructure developed. They had railroads, canals, heavy industry, chemical plants, and universities producing large numbers of well trained engineers and scientists. They had advantages many nations in Africa would envy. They need to be treated as a first rate economic nation. Another side effect that China's policies have is that it can drive down wages and development in true developing countries by under bidding them on products. I don't think this is what anyone intends. China must be forced to change.

    Another obstacle is NAFTA. The theory behind NAFTA was that Mexico would provide low end goods to the US and Canada at wages better than the Mexicans had had before NAFTA. The US and Canada would sell expertise and high end manufacturing equipment to help US manufacturing. One provision Mexico had to meet before signing NAFTA was "land reform". This land reform threw some 1/3 of the Mexican farm labor force off the land, who then headed to the border cities such as Juarez to work in the factories or the US as illegal immigrants. The brutally drove down the cost of labor in MEXICO and the US. Mexican factories merely substituted cheap labor for more efficient manufacturing. And since this "land reform" occurred before NAFTA was signed the disingenuous argument is that NAFTA had nothing to do with this effect. NAFTA must go, all it did was enrich corporations and not people. NAFTA is a poster child for globalization's failure.

    I have been questioning now is the conventional economic wisdom that the tight coupling of economies since this latest financial crisis. We are in a situation now where a crisis in one country can affect a host of others. Much like mountain climbers roped together, if one climber falls the entire string of climbers may plunge to their deaths. There needs to be "firewalls" between nations to prevent, slow, or buffer the effects of a crisis. Some may argue that this may be inefficient, I will argue that destroying the global economy is even worse.

    Overall I think that Capitalism and conventional economic theory has failed. We need to revisit the basic assumptions of how economies must be run. Two things I think we should do are
    1) have economies and financial systems that serve people, not vice versa

    2) With my respects to Mr. Dubcek, develop Capitalism with a human face. Corporations are not people and should not be treated as such, and the people running the corporations should not be allowed to hide behind the corporation. There must be accountability.

    --
    putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    1. Re:A few thoughts on the matter by benjamindees · · Score: 1

      So, your argument is that NAFTA worked as designed therefore it needs to go? I'm not saying you're wrong, but maybe you could develop this a bit more.

      have economies and financial systems that serve people, not vice versa

      This is what I'd call "naive socialism". It's what liberals have been pushing for in one way or another ever since the rise of fascism in Europe -- merging the magic of the free market with the magic of socialism. It only works as long as the Morlocks are sufficiently segregated from the Eloi. And, these days, that means "on the other side of the planet and speaking a completely different language".

      The problem is that rational actors don't participate in the free market in order to "serve people". They work in order to profit. And socialism is not profitable; it subsidizes consumers who offset the work done by producers.

      "Capitalism with a human face" could certainly exist, but it has been brutally repressed in every functional empire since the Romans. And fascism requires empire, in order to provide resources to create jobs to provide for all of the excess worthless eaters created by having an economic system that "serves people".

      --
      "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
    2. Re:A few thoughts on the matter by plopez · · Score: 1

      To clarify the NAFTA point a bit. NAFTA has worked as intended in some areas, but not in others. I has provided cheap labor for some (not all) businesses, that was intended. Allowed companies to flood the US with cheaper products, but failed to provide the business others were counting on. It opened Mexican markets to cheap (due to subsidies) American agricultural which was intended. That the price of corn, a staple in Mexico, would go "through the roof" when ethanol fuel was being pushed by the US as an alternative fuel was unintended. As was the inability of the Mexicans to increase production due to the destruction of their agricultural sector. The food riots which followed in Mexico (as an aside also in other nations which opened up their agricultural sector to the US) were never supposed to happen. The impact on immigration is to me an obvious consequence of NAFTA, but unintended.

      In the aggregate, it hurt more people than it helped. Mostly those working for large companies in upper management. It followed the conventional economic theory of "free trade" and "free market" (while IMO being neither) and shows how wrong those theories are (I hesitate to call them theories as many of them in economics are untested).

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    3. Re:A few thoughts on the matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The economic system we have now is not capitalism.

    4. Re:A few thoughts on the matter by benjamindees · · Score: 1

      Saying that "free trade" is untested because subsidies exist is like saying gravity is untested because the electric force exists. It's not that complicated to those who understand it. Unfortunately in economics, unlike most sciences, politics tends to have undue influence.

      But I agree that we don't really live in a free market. There are many large, unaccounted-for externalities that still exist, and would need to be eliminated, before that could be the case. Regardless, even in the ideal sense, the idea of "free markets" doesn't mean that everyone always benefits regardless of what they do. It means that assets are transferred from those who squander them to those who manage them responsibly.

      It opened Mexican markets to cheap (due to subsidies) American agricultural which was intended. That the price of corn, a staple in Mexico, would go "through the roof" when ethanol fuel was being pushed by the US as an alternative fuel was unintended. As was the inability of the Mexicans to increase production due to the destruction of their agricultural sector.

      But this is just nonsensical. Between 1997-2005, US corn was sold to Mexico at 19% less than the cost to produce it. The price (in Pesos) rose for a few years, between 1994-1996, but fell afterwards by nearly 50%. Recent food riots are more the result of notorious corruption in Mexico's own subsidy handouts, and importantly the rising consumption of Asia, than US ethanol subsidies. Food cost and ethanol demand have risen recently with rising oil prices, but those are global phenomena. The US has been subsidizing ethanol at nearly the same rates since the 70s and, if anything, this has only offset a tiny fraction of the massive oil imports that benefit oil-producing countries like Mexico. So there is plenty of wealth in Mexico (now home to the world's richest man), and those who have escaped it's horrible government by immigrating to the US have done very well. But of course free trade doesn't work in a corrupt oligarchy, and it's stupid to believe that this could possibly be the fault of the US or of free trade.

      http://articles.latimes.com/2010/mar/07/world/la-fg-mexico-farm-subsidies7-2010mar07
      http://richardbrenneman.wordpress.com/2010/12/21/nafta-and-the-destruction-of-mexican-farming/

      --
      "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
    5. Re:A few thoughts on the matter by chrb · · Score: 1

      First off, the biggest obstacle to American success is China and their unfair trade practices. By keeping their currency pegged to the US dollar at artificially low rate they are creating trade barriers to real free trade.

      When were the international trade interests of either the Chinese or U.S. ever "fair"? As a sovereign nation, the Chinese are free to do whatever they want with their own currency. Americans would be outraged if the Chinese (or Europeans) demanded that the financial policy of the U.S. and the dollar should be determined by the interests of foreigners. The government of the United States is free to devalue its own currency, and so is the government of China. But if a government weakens their currency, then imports will cost more. Hence wages are lower, and people have to work much harder to be competitive. It appears the Chinese are willing to accept this, but Americans (or, at least, Republicans?) are not. And if the U.S. restricts the money supply to manipulate the value, then the dollar may fall out of favour as the world's reserve currency, and the petrodollar may be replaced by the petroeuro, which might hurt the United States much more in the long term than the current trade imbalance with China.

    6. Re:A few thoughts on the matter by plopez · · Score: 1

      Unfair in the sense that they are not following assumed practices under which the trade agreements were signed.

      Also you stated:
      "Americans would be outraged if the Chinese (or Europeans) demanded that the financial policy of the U.S. and the dollar should be determined by the interests of foreigners."
        Then state:
      "And if the U.S. restricts the money supply to manipulate the value, then the dollar may fall out of favour as the world's reserve currency, and the petrodollar may be replaced by the petroeuro, which might hurt the United States much more in the long term than the current trade imbalance with China."

      This almost seems contradictory in the sense that the US *is* allowing potential actions of foreigners dictate financial and economic policies.
      Note that the US Fed is printing money which is devaluing the dollar, leading to complaints from other trade partners, and threats of action.

      What would hurt the US more is not really known, but I do think China should not be treated as a developing nation and allowed to hurt other nations via currency manipulation. I also agree the US should not be allowed to do so by currency manipulation or by dumping cheap subsidized agricultural products on developing nation around the world. I would prefer fair trade instead of so called "free trade" which we now have.

        I think that the best thing to do may be to move away from the petrodollar. If it causes a spike in oil prices in the US perhaps it will spur development of alt. energy sources. Which is not bad.

      Nice discussion BTW.

      Thanks

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    7. Re:A few thoughts on the matter by maraist · · Score: 1

      Now I'm going to have to look this up, but from memory, I'm pretty sure that 'printing' money has little to do with the devaluation of the Chinese Yuan to the US dollar. If they were printing, then yes, this would be the effect, but this ONLY affects past holdings. But the US isn't holding Chinese assets, it's the other way around. China holds trillions of dollars of US cash (in the form of government ($0.8T) and private bonds). These assets do not rise with inflation and thus are devalued by the printing of US money (but are actually aided by the printing of Chinese Yuan). Cross Currency valuation is purely a function of Trade balance, which is affected by relative changes in the money supply, relative changes in interest rates, relative changes in stock / asset values, and of course ultimately net export/import (of which the purchase of stocks/bonds/assets are included). In other words, the US buys lots of chinese products that require paying Chinese companies with Yuans, thus the US has to buy Yuans with USD. Since few people are ever buying USD's with Yuans, it SHOULD be the case that the price of Yuans rises. But the Chinese government monitors this and purchases corresponding amounts of USD's for the purpose of buying US bonds (private and public). Now they may or many not need to print money in order to make those purchases - being Communistic, I'm not exactly sure how their cash flow works.

      China has signed to the WTO, and this practice is at least in part in violation of their rules, thus US is seeking punative damages - which is pretty much all that the US can do.. We're not crazy enough to have our government print $1T and try to buy Chinese assets to devalue our own currency. Especially since they'd just print $2T that year and counter-balance us. It's a lose lose situation.. We'd foster inflation (since most of our goods purchased from China would necessarily go up in price, and in the short term the purchase volumes won't decrease proportionately - there's simply no alternative providers), and more importantly China would block or nationalize any assets we purchased anyway. We COULD tax purchases from China - this is classic protectionism, but this has much greater consequences in the WTO than currency devaluation (since on it's face currency devaluation helps the US more than China, at least in the short term).

      --
      -Michael
  38. Layout fail by calderra · · Score: 1

    Can't read this story due to problems with the new layout, I wonder if this will even post?

  39. We don't need manufacturing jobs.. by atticus9 · · Score: 1

    "...it feels like we’re conceding manufacturing prowess to other nations. Since manufacturing fuels jobs, that’s a serious problem."

    I disagree, the old manufacturing jobs were people manually assemble things just aren't going to be worth what the US expects as a good salary nowadays. We need high value jobs like engineering, IT, and medicine where training and education can shine through.

    1. Re:We don't need manufacturing jobs.. by Fujisawa+Sensei · · Score: 1

      "...it feels like we’re conceding manufacturing prowess to other nations. Since manufacturing fuels jobs, that’s a serious problem." I disagree, the old manufacturing jobs were people manually assemble things just aren't going to be worth what the US expects as a good salary nowadays. We need high value jobs like engineering, IT, and medicine where training and education can shine through.

      Not everybody has the brain power to be an engineer. What do you propose those double digit IQ people do? Go on welfare paid for by us highly trained engineers?

      If you don't bring the bottom up, they will drag the middle down, and that includes the engineers.

      --
      If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
    2. Re:We don't need manufacturing jobs.. by atticus9 · · Score: 1

      There's still going to be lots of jobs in things like infrastructure, retail, the service industry, maintenance (bridges for example constantly need people working on them), and construction. Things that you can't outsource to other countries, and need a person to do.

      But there's lots and lots of talented unemployed people out there, and I'd much rather see our leaders bring them jobs that let them use their full potential, then taking back jobs like assembling ipods.

      Also in the big picture if the cafe down the street is surrounding by tech companies it's going to be way better off, then being surrounding by factories. If I'm a doctor I can afford to pay way more when remodeling my house. The whole system is able to benefit, and I don't think anyone is particularly left out.

    3. Re:We don't need manufacturing jobs.. by JSBiff · · Score: 1

      I think there is a place for manufacturing, and jobs in manufacturing plants could still be good jobs - they're just different than in the past - more about maintaining the machines that make the stuff, than making it yourself. It also means a much smaller workforce per factory.

      I actually think that a lot of Obama's proposals generally speak to issues that can help us have a revival of manufacturing, despite the ZDNet author's "outrage" that Obama has ceded manufacturing. . .

      1) Getting more competitive tax rates: as much as people like to complain that corporations don't pay their 'fair share of taxes', the truth is corporations don't pay taxes - their customers do. Also, in a world of globalization, it becomes pretty easy for companies in a lot of industries to pack up and move to other countries with lower tax rates (of course, there are always types of businesses which *can't* move, because they are location-dependent - health care, energy, shipping, retail in-store sales, etc).

      From a fundamental point of realism, the only way we can be attractive to businesses which are able to locate anywhere, is to have competitive tax rates. If we're the highest in the world, lots of businesses will move (or have already).

      2) Taxes is only a part of the competitiveness picture - Obama also proposed simplifying government bureaucracy and regulations, to make businesses simpler. If the government can actually do that, that should make us a more attractive place to do business.

      3) Lawsuit reform - I think Obama just talked about this in regards to medical malpractice lawsuits - which would be a good start by helping to reduce costs of healthcare back down to sane levels. But, let's extend this idea everywhere - reasonable lawsuits, are of course, necessary, but there's way too many lawsuits, with awards for way too many dollars, in the U.S.

      Patent Trolls make it so any innovative company is almost guaranteed to be sued for patent infringement. Liability suits make it so any company is constantly living at the risk of big personal injury lawsuits, etc.

      Try to build almost any sort of large industrial business in the U.S. and you'll get delayed for years by lawsuits by environmental activists groups, etc. That's part of the reason it's very hard and very expensive to build nuclear plants in the U.S. It's my understanding that's why no new petroleum refineries have been built in the U.S. for something like 20 or 30 years - they can't find a site to build a new refinery because of NIMBY lawsuits making it impossible. You can't build LNG transport terminals anywhere to import/export Natural Gas on ocean tankers.

      If we want more jobs, particularly industry/manufacturing jobs in the U.S. we need to make it *possible* for companies to site and build facilities without decades of lawsuits and regulatory compliance issues making it impossible.

      4) Obama talked about reducing the number of agencies that have overlapping control over various aspects of business (that whole Salmon example he gave) - that sure sounds like a reasonable, good proposal, and HEY, it might even reduce government spending by increasing efficiency, if you can do that, as well as making it easier to do business here.

      5) Energy: Access to as much reliable, affordable electrical power as they need, is vital for any industry. After looking at this issue for about 2 years now, I currently think our best option right now to actually achieve that, while minimizing environmental hard, is Nuclear Power. The democrats are still a bit too enamored, I think, of wind and solar, and may squander a lot of money and opportunities by spending too much on the so-called "alternatives", and not enough on Nuclear, which is already proven to be safe, reliable, and able to produce abundant amounts of power.

      We have a relatively small amount of nuclear plants in the U.S. - about 100 right now. For various reasons, we haven't built a single new reactor in about 15 or 20 years (I think the last new reacto

    4. Re:We don't need manufacturing jobs.. by mnemotronic · · Score: 1

      If you think about it, this is the biggest outrage of the speech, because America used to make our living by manufacturing. I liked how this sounds, but on further consideration, it feels like we’re conceding manufacturing prowess to other nations. Since manufacturing fuels jobs, that’s a serious problem.

      Americans used to make their living by hunting for wild animals with pointed sticks. Things change. The age of American manufacturing is being replaced by a knowledge-based, service-oriented economy. Even now that paradigm, like the assembly line before it, is being outsourced to regions with lower cost of production. Some jobs, like on-site physical construction, food delivery, and some health care, cannot be sent to South Korea, Hyderabad, or Shinzen. It's hard for someone located in a different time zone to repair my roof, flop my whopper, or jam a needle in my arm. The outsourcing of those jobs involves the labor pool moving to the job, not the job moving to the labor pool. I don't see manufacturing as the future of American jobs. The unions had their day in the sun.

      --
      The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
  40. We aren't going to manufacture our way out... by divisionbyzero · · Score: 1

    of joblessness. The only way we can compete for manufacturing jobs that currently go to other countries is to do them more efficiently by automating them. In other words productivity must increase by an appropriate amount or we aren't going to win the job. So a job that at one time required 1000 people in the US is now being done by 1000 people in China for 50% of the cost to do it in the US. In order to win it back we're going to have to do the job with 100 people. That's still a net loss of 900 but it's better than nothing. We are going to have to create brand-new highly profitable work-intensive industries in which the US has a competitive advantage (education, infrastructure, etc) in order to get the jobless rates down.

    1. Re:We aren't going to manufacture our way out... by dublin · · Score: 2

      As someone who is hesitating to found a new manufacturing company here in the US, I can tell you the problem with mfg. here is NOT labor rates (at least not in right-to-work states where you can get better workers for far less than the rapacious union scales that have killed the auto, steel, and other US mfg industries) - the real problem, and the ONLY things keeping the US from competing globally in the manufacturing market, are: 1) the world's highest corporate tax rates, and 2) the outrageous and almost unpredictable cost of regulatory compliance. (Obamacare's 1099 reporting requirement is a new form of anti-small business evil, aimed at forcing every small business in America to move all transactions to credit/debit cards (for Obama's bailed-out bank cronies) or face literally crippling new paperwork, accounting, and reporting costs.

      The US can be a manufacturing powerhouse again tomorrow - All we have to do is just roll back all the ridiculous regulations and the ever-increasing cost of trying to comply with the the myriad dictates of ever increasing armies of "bureaucrats armed and clerical" ("trying", because it's impossible to actually fully comply, by design.) We could start by completely eliminating several Federal departments or agencies that have NO backing or support in the US constitution. (Energy, Education, Commerce, Agriculture, OSHA, EPA, FDA, and Commerce would be a good start... That doesn't mean no one should do those functions, but that the Feds have NO business doing them - the 10th amendment makes that quite clear.)

      If we eliminate punitive regulation and tax policies towards business, we'll see an entrepreneurial boom the like of which we haven't seen since the late industrial revolution - there's huge pent-up desire and will to build things here - we just need to get our government and its regulations the hell out of the way! (Has the number of pages of Federal regulations gone down *any* year in the last century? I highly doubt it, and Obama's "regulatory czar" Cass Sunstein is certainly working in the opposite direction.)

      We should be willing to vote in a heartbeat for anyone who today would echo Barry Goldwater's famous words:

      I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution, or that have failed their purpose, or that impose on the people an unwarranted financial burden. I will not attempt to discover whether legislation is "needed" before I have first determined whether it is constitutionally permissible. And if I should later be attacked for neglecting my constituents' "interests," I shall reply that I was informed that their main interest is liberty and that in that cause I am doing the very best I can.
                          - The Conscience of A Conservative (1960)

      --
      "The future's good and the present is nothing to sneeze at." - Roblimo's last ./ post
    2. Re:We aren't going to manufacture our way out... by TheSync · · Score: 1

      The US can be a manufacturing powerhouse again tomorrow - All we have to do is just roll back all the ridiculous regulations

      I agree that if we 1) lifted the minimum wage and 2) lifted limitations on immigration that we could have the same kind of low-productivity/low-pay factories we find in developing countries.

      However I really doubt we will ever increase the number of workers in high-productivity/high-pay manufacturing positions simply because automation and machinery mean you need very few workers to achieve this.

      Physical stuff can be built by robots. Ideas still need people to build them. For now.

    3. Re:We aren't going to manufacture our way out... by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      The US can be a manufacturing powerhouse again tomorrow - All we have to do is just roll back all the ridiculous regulations and the ever-increasing cost of trying to comply with the the myriad dictates of ever increasing armies of "bureaucrats armed and clerical" ("trying", because it's impossible to actually fully comply, by design.)

      Just out of curiosity, do you happen to know how the regulatory burden in the US compares with, say, the regulatory burden in seems-to-be-doing-OK-in-manufacturing Germany?

  41. Such an angry young man by MpVpRb · · Score: 3, Interesting

    You need to realize that grouping all people of a certain age into a "generation", and accusing all of them is silly.

    I have disagreed with a lot of the stuff done by the government for over 40 years. It's not my fault.

  42. Fox News rebroadcast by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When did /. turn party political? Don't you normally put some sort of crap warning when you're promoting your political or business aims? I assume you've had a back hander from the republican party and fox news for this one?

    1. Re:Fox News rebroadcast by bball99 · · Score: 0

      it all about fare and load-balancing

  43. Vizzini: Did you hear the SOTU? Outrageous! by RevWaldo · · Score: 1

    Montoya: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

    .

  44. please work on headline writing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It took me a while to decide that the techies at a company called "Four Outrages" doesn't know about the thing.

    The headline should be written as "Four outrages which techies should know ..."
    You see what I did there.

  45. All I am hearing... by the_hellspawn · · Score: 1

    All I am hearing is my butt hurts.

    --
    "The laws of science be a harsh mistress." --Bender
  46. Non-story, shock-jock-journalism with no insight by baerm · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why is this listed as news? This is entertainment at best, and pretty poor entertainment at that. If I wanted useless drivle like this, I would be watching any of the major TV channel tabloidainment shows instead of reading slashdot.

    Cmdr Taco owes me 10 minutes.

  47. Re:The Prince by Surt · · Score: 1

    If you haven't read the prince, you're missing out. People who have read it are manipulating you.

    --
    "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
  48. Re:Non-story, shock-jock-journalism with no insigh by dru · · Score: 1

    Completely agreed. This shouldn't be on Slashdot. This shouldn't even be on ZDNet.

    <Insert comment about shoddy state of journalism here.>

  49. STFU Gewirtz by davev2.0 · · Score: 2

    No one cares about your lousy opinions, especially about politics.

    This isn't news, it is blogspam.

  50. "boomers" have paid, too by MikeMo · · Score: 1
    I am a Boomer. I've paid a TON of money into the SS system. Served 8 years underwater on a submarine to protect your ass. It's not just our parents.

    If you take away medicare and SS, what do you expect will happen to us? If you don't care, then I sure as hell don't care what you think.

    1. Re:"boomers" have paid, too by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1
      The "tons" of money you paid is tiny compared to the promises made to you in return for that tax. And you elected the politicians who made that promise. Essentially you promised yourself great retirement benefits for a very tiny cut in pay. We did not make that promise, we did not elect those politicians. This is socialism of the first order.

      India and China are supposed to be the socialistic countries. But even they dont tax everybody to pay pensions to their parents. You bring up your children, make good citizens of them, love them, cherish them and they will take care of you in your retirement. That is the "contract between generations" in India and China. The contract is between people related by flesh and blood. In this Soviet America you tax all the young people and divvie it up equally among all the retirees. Where is the incentive for any American to take care of their children? If your children would not pay for your retirement why should we strangers pay for it?

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    2. Re:"boomers" have paid, too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've paid a TON of money into the SS system. Served 8 years underwater on a submarine to protect your ass.

      You got more from your gov't "job" than you paid into SS. Hold your head underwater and protect us from your stupidity.

  51. Its just logical by bjk002 · · Score: 2

    No one EVER reads TFA anyway. The new layout and changes simply filters the links to TFA out to allow for more white space.

    --
    Opinion:=TMyOpinion.Create(Me);
  52. That's odd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your outrage seems to be directed at an entire generation -- the vast majority of whom you know nothing about -- instead of the elite few at the top of the pyramid that actually made the decisions.

    Way to bark up the wrong tree!

    1. Re:That's odd by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1

      The vast majority of the generation I know nothing about insists on taxing me and taking my money to pay for their own retirement. Is it American to force people to pay for the welfare of strangers? Is it capitalism? Is it liberty?

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  53. Re:that one minute by DocSavage64109 · · Score: 1

    Also, that one minute could be just enough to make it before the red light that will add more time - possibly in a cascading manner if other hazards/blockades occur between the two times (like semis backing into driveways in front of you).

  54. The train security outrage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have to disagree with the article writer about how trains would require as severe security.

    While yes, trains can be dangerous (as that Denzel Washington movie's inspiration demonstrated) there is a fundamental difference between trains and planes: Planes have to freely maneuver in 3-D space to transition, trains are locked to rails. Yes, they can cause damage, yes, they can be hijacked, but they cannot be turned into arbitrary missiles.

    Course, that's what set Sept 11th into such a shock, turning the planes into missiles rather than just taking hostages or diverting the plane. My response for both: secure the control room, and the worst the attacker can do (barring sabotage) is destroy the cargo.

    And with trains, if there is an issue, you can stop the train. Yes, that may block traffic for the rest of the rail system, but at the very least people can evacuate providing the train has enough time to decelerate.

  55. USA and the world by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Out sourcing and fat payments to CEO's. So when do we as countries go down hill. Answer when CEO's send jobs off overseas to pump up the wages of the people who manage and don't produce.

    Money in the hand of a few does no good at all. Support the middle and working classing. Get over health care it works (look at Australia) and start pulling together instead of pulling apart.

    The crap that Government should not be in there helping is wrong, look at China they have over taken you. In Australia we have the CSIRO and you pay them each time you use wifi.

    My two cents worth may the flames begin...

  56. corporate tax cuts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    that was my biggest WTF line. obama sold the US on cutting taxes for corporations. sure, he preceded it with close tax loop holes... but i seriously doubt these corporations' tax gurus are going to relent avoiding paying as much taxes as per usual. given the mood of the country you'd think he'd continue his reigning in of big business. obama has always been on their side, but i thought this statement was egregious.

  57. It was racist, it was homophobic, it was hateful by Shivetya · · Score: 1

    DAMNIT DON'T YOU GET IT!!!!!!!!! EVEEEL REPUBLICAN WAS WEARING THAT TIE BECAUSE HE WAS A RACIST HOMOPHONE HELLBENT ON TAKING YOUR HEALTHCARE AND INTERNETS!

    Geez, the guy is partisan hack (The article author) who had nothing to write about other than slamming a Tea Party member and a the Republican House leader while tossing odd softballs across Obama's lap.

    Really, the tie was probably the only interesting thing about his article.

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
  58. [QD] likes this! Not! LOL! KTHX! by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 0

    *snore* Shouldn't you be sexting someone?

    No, *most* people face a bleak future because of people like you who view everyone as vast, monolithic blocks who think in lockstep. You are not unique. You are not original. You are tiresomely, wearingly typical.

    I'm 45, so I've been paying in to the system longer than you've been alive (first paying job at 15). If you want to pay me back (with interest) what has been sucked out of my wallet over all those years, fine, get rid of Social Security. Anyone not an innumerate ideologue realizes it's a dinosaur anyway. Sorry if I don't fit your precious little profile. I bought a house where the mortgage was easily managed and I never factor SS payments into my retirement plans. I'll probably be able to retire between 50 and 55. Don't worry, I might retire overseas so you and your ilk (of all generations) can live in your happy utopia of intellectual squalor.

  59. Sorry? by Arancaytar · · Score: 1

    All I heard was "salmon". :P

  60. Re:The Prince by spun · · Score: 1

    Why does everyone love to quote The Prince, a book about running a tyranny, but no one quotes Machiavelli's Discourses on Livy, an equally insightful book about running a Republic?

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
  61. Get edumicated. by Viewsonic · · Score: 3, Interesting

    You need to do some research. The only high speed rail the USA has is the Acela line, which is run by Amtrak. It brings in an absolute *ton* of money. It is full all the time, self sustaining, and brings major profits to the states it runs through. The cost of getting this type of line through the entire USA is negligible for the amount of money (and jobs) it would bring to each of the states. While not as fast as those in Europe and Japan, it is being upgraded to those speeds and will allow for more passengers (and profit). There is zero credibility to any claims made that high speed rail in the USA would be unprofitable, rarely used, and a money drain. The only example we have is the Amtrak Acela line, and it is huge success in every aspect.

  62. Your alternative is? by Kohath · · Score: 1

    What's the alternative to competing? Hiding? Fortress America? Invade and force your personal preferences on them? Protectionism that forces your neighbors to give up on cheaper goods and services? Pretending there's a secret Star-Trek-like utopian answer that's one more law or one more billion dollars in government grants away? Humanity all at once deciding to give up on our nature and act the way that fits your emotional needs?

    It's not "logic" that causes the need to compete. We need to compete to survive and prosper. Denial is a coping mechanism, but when you're done coping, you still have the same problems to solve.

  63. Perez Hilton for nerds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Really? This tosh on Slashdot? You've got to be kidding. This article has the feel of Perez Hilton bitching it up to get geek attention.

    This had little to do with 'nerds'. A trip to the grocery store applies as much to 'nerds' as this opinion piece.

    After reading this article, I wanted the last few minutes of my life back. What an absolute waste, both in taking the time to read it and in Slashdot wasting the electricity to pass this garbage along.

  64. Ho Hum. I expect better from the GOP spin machine. by company+suckup · · Score: 1

    C'mon boys you can do better than that.

  65. You are missing a couple of Trillion by alexander_686 · · Score: 1

    The Social Security Trust fund has a balance of 2.5 Trillion dollars. [i.e. debt that the federal goverment ows]

    That bieng said, the Federal Goverment does not count that 2.5tn as part of the 14tn debt owed.... Have to love national accounting.

  66. Re:The Prince by Surt · · Score: 1

    Because most of us spend our daily lives working in a tyranny, not a republic.

    --
    "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
  67. Re:The Prince by spun · · Score: 1

    Please do not demean the suffering of those who live under real tyranny by comparing what we've got to what they've got. It makes you appear as though you have no empathy or understanding of the suffering of others. You do not live under a tyranny. The very fact that you can freely post "Because most of us spend our daily lives working in a tyranny, not a republic." without consequences is proof you do not live under a tyranny. I know things are bad, but seriously, get a grip, you aren't helping make your case when you use such over the top hyperbole.

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
  68. lets see by luther349 · · Score: 1

    another speech where Obama tosses around more lies. sorry he got his 4 years of running the country into the ground and making healthcare worse. time to let someone else do it wrong. i dont care who you vote for as long as there in some corps back pocket things will never change. at least tea party got it right for a change and the fact manufacturing needs to be restored in the usa. same thing for oil we have plenty of are own we can get heck we do in some parts but what do we do ship it overseas to be refined. will it happen probably not at least not until the corps milk the economy dry and we go into a depression. ideas are not jobs companys like google dont employ millions. tell oboma what if ideas are jobs send me a check for a million dollers for every idea i come up with good or bad,

  69. Outages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Am I the only one that initially read that as "Four Outages Techies need to know about...."?
    I'm probably overworked. Oh look, another server is down...

  70. Re:Ho Hum. I expect better from the GOP spin machi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Amazingly the liberals are already attacking Obama themselves. It took at least three years for Bush to be regularly attacked by his own party.

  71. Too bad that... by kuzb · · Score: 2

    ...knowing won't change the outcome. They're going to do it with, or without your consent.

    --
    BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
  72. Thinking short term or facing the inevitable ? by perpenso · · Score: 1

    How can we out innovate when large corporations are selling technology to foreign countries? Think GE selling jet engine designs to China so they can get some short term profit.

    Let me start by saying that I am naturally skeptical of this sort of deal. However let me offer the logic that may be behind this decision ...

    Basically GE has competition and believes that if they decline the offer then a competitor may accept it. In this scenario they lose in both the short term and the long term. To prevent the tech transfer GE and its competitors must essentially establish a cartel and coordinate their actions. The problem is that cartels almost always fail, some member almost always cheats. The "cheating" may not even be greed based, one member may be losing in the market and about to fail so it sells off its tech (or itself) to avoid going out of business. The cartel not only has to coordinate to prevent tech transfer but it would also have to coordinate to keep all members at some minimal level of health. So it is highly likely that someone is going to transfer the tech. GE's logic may be that since someone will most likely do it, they might as well be that someone.

    Essentially they may believe that the long term is already lost and that the short term is the only potential win.

    Personally I agree with the philosophy that decision makers should be thinking long term except when short term survival is in question. However what does one do when the long term options seem to all be bad? Emotionally I want to say that GE is being dumb or greedy but I can't honestly say that this is the case, a lot more info is needed.

    1. Re:Thinking short term or facing the inevitable ? by cmarkn · · Score: 1

      Besides that, by selling the engines to China, they know how to assemble those engines, but they don't necessarily have to understand the physics that goes into designing them. Thus, they can turn out plenty of copies, but what are they going to do when GE moves on to the next generation of design? They're going to have to buy those designs too.

      But if GE doesn't sell them the engines, then China has to invest in learning to design them, which I don't think is a problem for them if they have the will, and then we’re sucking hind tit. It’s a bit of a paradox, selling technology to keep from losing it.

      --
      People should not fear their government. Governments should fear their people.
  73. Easy by Digital+Vomit · · Score: 1

    Easy. Reduce patents and copyrights to 5 years or less. You'll then see an increase in innovation like you've never seen before, guaranteed.

    --
    Modern copyright is theft of culture from everyone and it retards the progress of the useful arts and sciences.
  74. Re:Non-story, shock-jock-journalism with no insigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why is this listed as news? This is entertainment at best, and pretty poor entertainment at that. If I wanted useless drivle like this, I would be watching any of the major TV channel tabloidainment shows instead of reading slashdot.

    Cmdr Taco owes me 10 minutes.

    You must be new here. He owes me at least 2 years of my life back.

  75. We owe you nothing. by MikeRT · · Score: 1

    Just pay back to me what I put in adjusted for inflation, of course.

    It doesn't work that way. This is a civil society. You pay for things from which you don't immediately benefit. I pay property taxes to support a public school system I neither support or want. Should I "get my money back" as well?

    Of course not. Even though my leanings are distinctly conservative-libertarian on most issues, I recognize a higher duty to my society here to not exact my last pound of "what's owed to me."

    Here's a simple fact. Your "entitlements" are not sustainable. They're just not. No right-thinking person who actually looks at the numbers believes they are. It sucks to know you paid into a system which needs to go away to save our economy and government. It sucks even worse being forced to pay in and become indebted for that system now that you know it is impossible for it to survive.

    1. Re:We owe you nothing. by carpefishus · · Score: 1

      Just get ur ass back to work. OK? That buzzing sound you make is irritating. ;-)

      --
      Facts take all of the premium out of arm waving - T. Reynolds
    2. Re:We owe you nothing. by Totenglocke · · Score: 1

      That's why I propose phasing out Social Security. Say anyone over a certain age (30?35? You'd have to get Economists and Actuaries to analyze all the data and come up with a specific number) still gets SS and pays in, everyone below that level is out and pays a much lower SS tax to allow them to save money but also keep from putting the full brunt of SS on the deficit, with the level of taxes going down as those who collect SS die off. Sure, it would take a good 50 years to phase it out, but it would work. Also, since many countries have mandatory savings rates, they could simply make it mandatory that the money that WOULD have gone to SS from your paycheck (13%, 6.5% from you, 6.5% from your employer) is put into some sort of savings plan (IRA, 401k, stocks, whatever). Social Security isn't sustainable without massively raising taxes (which doesn't work either). Instead of fighting to find ways to save it, we need to be working on how to get rid of it without screwing over those too old to make enough to retire on.

      --
      "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
    3. Re:We owe you nothing. by bored · · Score: 1

      Here's a simple fact. Your "entitlements" are not sustainable.

      Which it total republican bullshit. If you look at the budget, less than 1/3 is "entitlements", the rest is service on debt (mostly caused by wars), and the military itself. Cut the military by 7/8th and we still have the most expensive one in the world, convert medicare to a fully socialized system, with minimum standards of care, and poof the deficit is gone. In fact I'd wager that if we left tax rates at current levels for the next decade or two under a plan like that the debt would disappear too. The result then (and only then) would be the fact that we could actually cut federal tax rates by 2/3's and still keep all our existing social, and pet projects (clean energy, infrastructure, etc).

      But you ask what about the military? I would also venture to bet that within the next 10-20 years all this money we are currently spending on aircraft, aircraft carriers, subs, and other machines to transport fighting men around is going to look silly when a manufacturing powerhouse starts to make shittons of extremely accurate (thing really good vision recognition in multiple wavelengths) cruise missiles/unmaned vehicles. The falklands war was in the early 80's when cruise missiles had less processing power than your average phone from 5 years ago. I'm betting that anything moving slower than mach 1 is going to be toast from devices costing millions (maybe billions in the case of aircraft carriers) less. At higher speeds the devices will cost more, but the military has already admitted that manned fighter aircraft have reached the limit of what is possible with a human inside. The next generations won't have them.

  76. Pensions should be cut off and banned forever. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm a Boomer. Born 1962, and I'm a local government employee too. I also think that there should never have been any pensions in the first place. I do not have a pension waiting for me when I retire. My city government employer does not do pensions. Instead, we get to pay into a state municipal employees retirement system, very much like a 401k plan for public employees. From time to time, the city has put in matching contributions up to a small percentage when times were better, but in the past years there have been none of that. All the money that goes in, is deducted from employees' paychecks. In other words, I am paying for my own retirement by putting away a portion of my own earnings into the retirement system account. I am also in favor of ending Social Security cold-turkey. It is a ponzi scheme and is in the process of failing. I'd much rather add the money I'm forced to pay into SS, into my own retirement account instead.

  77. The real outrage that everybody needs to know by roman_mir · · Score: 0

    The real outrage that everybody needs to know is right on the surface: how can this be, it feels like a twilight zone, why are so many people not outraged MORE about what is happening in USA?

    Late last week the Federal Reserve Bank has declared that it will no longer count its losses on its balance sheet the same way, instead these losses will shown as liabilities and the losses are shifted to the US Treasury, so all those bad loans and mortgages and credit card debt 30 year US treasuries at 4% and 10 year US bonds that the Fed is holding, all of those are not going to show as losses on the Fed's balance sheet.

    Isn't THAT an outrage? The Fed is holding all the toxic assets from all the banks and financial institutions that were sold to it by all those institutions before they 'paid back' the TARP money (and the US gov't is telling you that those made money for US gov't.) Don't you understand that all of those toxic assets are still toxic?

    WHY ARE YOU NOT OUTRAGED?

    Do you not understand that the inflation causes the interest rates to rise and that those 30 year 4% treasuries and 10 year bonds will be losing money once the rate passes that threshold? And that would mean that the US Fed is insolvent, but because of this PR stunt that the losses are on US Treasury balance sheet, while US Fed is showing these as liabilities this tricks you into thinking US Fed is solvent? What do you think you can get from the US Fed if you come to their bank and ask them to redeem that Federal Reserve Note that you have in your wallet? You think you are going to get some of those Treasuries or foreign holdings, or do you perhaps think you will get the gold, that the US Fed and Treasury are still valuing at 35 dollars an ounce? THIRTY FIVE. You think they are obligated to redeem the bank notes? They are printing them every day, billions, they are counterfeiting the money, they only are allowed to mint coins and that doesn't even mean they can actually print money at all.

    WHY ARE YOU NOT OUTRAGED?

    What about the spending?

    At the end of 2006 the total debt held by the public was 4.9 Trillion dollars. According to the Treasury dep't the average interest paid on that debt was 4.9%
    So Annualized interest payment was 240Billion dollars

    At the end of 2010 the publicly traded debt was 9.3 Billion dollars (that's 87% increase in 4 years)
    The average interest rate was only 2.3%
    So Annualized interest payment fell to 213Billion dollars

    So average interest was 2.3% in 2010.

    But in 5 years the publicly traded debt will be 15Trillion dollars. if interest rate is even only 7% at that point, then 50% of all revenue will be spent only to pay the INTEREST on that debt.
    Now think about that. 7% is actually very very small amount considering the speed at which the long term interests on US gov't bonds are rising today.

    I actually think that by the end of 2011 the interest on public debt will be 5% easy.

    WHY ARE YOU NOT OUTRAGED?

    The gov't grows during the 'good years' without looking at all at the fact that the rate of its growth is unsustainable, it does not correspond to the growth of economy, so why isn't gov't CUT during the bad years much faster than the rest of the economy is cut organically?

    What about all those unfunded liabilities and all those pensions that are promised to the Federal and State and Municipal workers? What about the fact that all those pensions are "funded" with US bonds - debt?

    What about the fact that SS and EI and Medicare and all other programs are funded with US bonds - debt?

    What about the fact that USA is in wars ALL THE TIME?

    WHY ARE YOU NOT OUTRAGED?

    What about the fact that today it is MUCH MUCH easier to do business in China than in USA and that is why all the capital is leaving? The rules and regulations and taxes are destroying the production in USA. The unions and minimum wage laws distorting the market, but OK, fine, forget about those. The inflation and corporate bailouts and stimulus are destro

  78. Re:The Prince by Surt · · Score: 1

    You used tyranny first. I was just replying. The prince is about running a principality. An authoritarian regime where ultimate power resides in one individual over all others, the same mechanism used in most corporate offices today.

    --
    "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
  79. Are you math challenged? by JSBiff · · Score: 1

    "sorry he got his 4 years of running the country into the ground and making healthcare worse. time to let someone else do it wrong."

    Obama has only been in office two years (and a week).

  80. "We need to make stuff here" is a fallacy for now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The whole idea that we need to manufacture more domestically is simply not an option. We will always make some things in the US-- those items that are too prohibitive to transport.

    However, we will never be able to compete on a national scale due to the lack of true "fair trade" treaties. Fair trade, as it stands now, simply is not. Developing countries have an unfair trade advantage in that they can pay workers less, work them for more hours, fail to provide benefits, and provide unsafe working conditions. International trade will only be fair trade once all countries adopt some basic labor standards. Until that point, those that can get away with slave labor will have an unfair advantage. The US can not compete with that.

  81. Re:The Prince by spun · · Score: 1

    Oh, I get you. I thought you were saying America is a tyranny, a surprisingly popular opinion amongst the less intelligent these days. Sorry. Yes, corporations are tyrannies and I'm guessing everyone who is anyone in management has read The Prince.

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
  82. Re:The Prince by Surt · · Score: 1

    Ah, yes, sorry, I was not talking about America. I can see how it would be read that way.

    --
    "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
  83. "Innovation and education won't save our economy" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The truth that China's dictatorship and America's multinational corporations don't want you to know

    The overall PISA scores of American students are lowered by the poor results for blacks and Latinos, who make up 35 percent of America’s K-12 student population. Asian-American students have an average score of 541, similar to those of Shanghai, Hong Kong, Japan and South Korea. The non-Hispanic white American student average of 525 is comparable to the averages of Canada (524), New Zealand (521), and Australia (515). In contrast, the average PISA readings score of Latino students is 446 and black students is 441.

    As for college, the claim that Americans must catch up with the more advanced Chinese is absurd. Chinese students yearn to study in American universities -- not vice versa. Twenty-five percent of Americans graduate from college, compared to only 5 percent of Chinese. Yes, that’s a large number in absolute terms, given China’s population. But American CEOs who offshore production have no right to complain that too few Americans are going into science and engineering. Why should young Americans commit career suicide by entering occupations that are going to be offshored?

    http://mobile.salon.com/politics/war_room/2011/01/25/lind_myth_china/index.html

  84. Nobody is ready to face that tiger by dbIII · · Score: 1

    why not actually address privacy rights and the out-of-control TSA

    You've answered the question yourself - it's out of control. It would take somebody very brave and very well prepared to get off that homeland security tiger and put it down. There are tens of thousands of jobs that just should not exist in that organisation but condemning that many people to sudden unemployment is a hard decision to make. There is a lot of corruption and a lot of powerful people making a lot of money for effectively nothing who will make a lot of noise if there is any chance to flow of cash will be cut. Then there's the angle that anyone that attempts any form of direct control or cuts will be labelled a terrorist, unamerican, and a pile of McCarthy era insults.
    If you think the health care fuss got people angry then consider it would be nothing compared with an attempt to cut back any little corner of Homeland Security - even the TSA. There is so much money being drained from the economy to feed that beast that there will be such a huge outcry from everywhere when the money flow is cut off - jobs will be lost everywhere and people will not understand that many of those jobs are purely parasitic.
    I don't think a first term President is going to go after such a beast. They will not be ready and they will destroy their chance at a second term. Meanwhile the TSA and similar will push the envelope to see how much they can get away with before a President is prepared to destroy their career to stop them. I expect things will get worse for a long time. It's possible that after a few decades large numbers people from that uncontrolled department will be running the country in a kleptocracy similar to what you see with Russia now.

  85. Need more math by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So many people who failed 3rd grade math
    Be sure to order your word salad without any cover up dressing.

    Using the words over and for

    "1.2 trillion cuts over 10 years"..................
    that means in 100 years we get rid of 12 of the 14 trillion dollar debt or 120B per year

    1.2T cuts for 10 years means in 10 years 12 of 14T are gone.

    You people need to ask your boss for a raise......you're too poor to pay attention.

  86. Re:"Innovation and education won't save our econom by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

    The truth that China's dictatorship and America's multinational corporations don't want you to know

    The overall PISA scores of American students are lowered by the poor results for blacks and Latinos, who make up 35 percent of America’s K-12 student population. Asian-American students have an average score of 541, similar to those of Shanghai, Hong Kong, Japan and South Korea. The non-Hispanic white American student average of 525 is comparable to the averages of Canada (524), New Zealand (521), and Australia (515). In contrast, the average PISA readings score of Latino students is 446 and black students is 441.

    As for college, the claim that Americans must catch up with the more advanced Chinese is absurd. Chinese students yearn to study in American universities -- not vice versa. Twenty-five percent of Americans graduate from college, compared to only 5 percent of Chinese. Yes, that’s a large number in absolute terms, given China’s population. But American CEOs who offshore production have no right to complain that too few Americans are going into science and engineering. Why should young Americans commit career suicide by entering occupations that are going to be offshored?

    http://mobile.salon.com/politics/war_room/2011/01/25/lind_myth_china/index.html

    That item in bold right there is a fallacy. If you enter in science and/or engineering and remain with baseline, comoditizable (sp) skills, then yeah, you will be offshored. If you have talent and become specialized, you will not. Period.

    As it stands, we do have a saturation of software developers (not so much with other engineering and science fields.) We have been having it (as well as a lowering of CS standards) since the dot-com guacamole. So it is natural with declining standards and saturation that software developers will feel the brunt of offshoring more than other engineering and science disciplines.

    The risk of offshoring is permanent, but not so necessarily real if you work your skills. If you don't enter a career because you fear the Chinese or Indians will take yar jab, then you probably weren't a good candidate for that career anyways. If you are a good candidate, you'll go for it, you'll make it work for you, and you'll develop your skills into specific technical, hard-to-offshore niches... and those niches do not have to involve RF circuit design or rocket science.

    I've yet to see engineers that work for the DoD, DoE being offshored. No way no how. Same with health care. I'd like to see HIPAA-regulated jobs (including software) being offshored.

    Besides, what would the option be for science and engineering? Management? Incidentally, the number of MBA graduates from a local university was like three times more than all the graduate level science and engineering graduates combined two years ago. That's a localized picture of what's wrong with this offshore-boogie-man fearmongering. We are not going to MBA it out.

    There are other careers that are hard to offshore: medical, dentistry, nursing, pharmacy, agriculture, energy. Of course, none of those will be options for the majority who are too concerned with being offshored if they go into science or engineering. Being offshored is not a strong fear for people who really, really want to get into engineering and sciences (which is the type of people we want in those fields.)

    The article does have a point in saying that American CEO's don't have a right to complain for a lack of scientists and engineers... but it points it out for the wrong reasons. There is no shortage (at least quantitatively speaking.)

  87. So what pays the taxes? by dbIII · · Score: 1

    Hollywood isn't paying tax and service industries don't bring in any money from overseas. Engineers are there to design new stuff to build - if nothing new is built the engineers are laid off, and if nothing much is being built anyway they change careers completely. Medical tourists are not going to bring in anything because they can go to Asia and see US trained doctors there for a lower price. Some people think the US economy can be built on "IP", but the rest of the world is not buying that unless their arms are twisted very hard. The USA just is not selling much that the world wants anymore. iPads and similar are irrelevant because very little of that money actually gets into the US economy - it just vanishes into a very small number of bank accounts and the Chinese government probably gets more of it to spend on infrastructure than the US government. Without somewhere to get money for to maintain infrastructure it will be just circling the drain with increasing costs to do anything at all.

  88. Re:It was racist, it was homophobic, it was hatefu by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

    Geez, the guy is partisan hack (The article author) who had nothing to write about other than slamming a Tea Party member and a the Republican House leader while tossing odd softballs across Obama's lap.

    You're talking out of your ass.

    David Gewirtz has called out Democrats time and again for their failures (and he's done the same with Republicans).

    Obviously you feel qualified to spout your uneducated opinion of the author, but if you don't know *who* the author of a piece is, it's generally not a good idea to make assumptions without verifying them first.

    --
    "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
  89. Sir, I beg to differ by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    Have you seen what the those chaps in Jipang are doing with trains of late?

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  90. Just a cheap shot of a headline to grab attention by robcohen · · Score: 1

    I found nothing of value in the article and can't imagine any other reason for writing it but to grab eyeballs with a catchy headline. Rob

  91. Modern Monetary Theory by nhaehnle · · Score: 1

    Here are my thoughts on the matter.

    First off, the biggest obstacle to American success is China and their unfair trade practices. By keeping their currency pegged to the US dollar at artificially low rate they are creating trade barriers to real free trade.

    Try thinking about this situation in real terms, i.e. comparing the resources available to a country vs. the resources it is able to consume. Because the Chinese government keeps buying US$, the US is able to import cheap goods from China, which means that the US, as a nation, is able to consume more resources than it normally would be able to. If I were the US government, I would be happy about the Chinese policy!

    It is true that this competition causes US manufacturing jobs to disappear. However, that's not a bad thing at all, because it means that those workers are freed up for other, more advanced and useful tasks. They can help raise the living standards for US citizens even beyond what they are used to today.

    Of course, actually making use of this opportunity would require a government that isn't stuck in neo-liberal economic thinking. For example, it would require a government that realizes that idle resources can simply be employed via higher deficit spending in programs that advance public purpose. In other words, it would require a government that understands Modern Monetary Theory.

    In the meantime, those of us who do have an unobstructed view on the fundamentals on how monetary systems and the economy function are keeping up the facepalming in light of the supreme idiocy that comes out of our politicians on both sides of the Atlantic.

  92. Go to your room. by MasterOfGoingFaster · · Score: 1

    My generation and Generation X are looking at a bleak future because of what is being done by the Boomers.

    I have a simple solution: take away the Boomers' Social Security and Medicare. All of it.

    OK. We'll be taking away your computer, iPod, iPhone and the Internet, since we created those things as well.

    All jesting aside, I think you are a bit short sighted. Every generation has to clean up the sins of the previous generation, but benefits from the advancements of the previous. Believe it or not - your generation will create quite a mess for your children and be surprised when they complain about how stupid and horrible your generation is for doing that to them.

    --
    Place nail here >+
  93. We need to cooperate, not compete by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 2

    The USA had no net new jobs during the past decade, but the GDP grew 40%. What is the country going to be like after another decade of that? That's what being "competitive" has brought us already.

    How is the average worker going to compere with tireless robots with artificial retinas balancing pencils all day, or IBM supercomputers that can play Jeopardy, or voluntary social networks ont he internet, or just better design and better materials for longer lasting products that are easier to assemble? And compete at that all while demand is limited by Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs and by an emerging environmental ethic of Reduce, Resuse, Recycle? And still hope to have adequate wages with 10% or more unemployment for years leaving people desperate to take jobs that pay anything at all, even without benefits?

    In short, they can't. Obama's economic advisors are fighting the economic battles of the 1930s, but in the early part of the 21st century. His speech just completely ignores the current unique situation. To survive as a democratic society, we need a mix of a basic income, a gift economy, democtratic resource-based planning, and improved local subsistence production.

    See my post here for a summary of alternatives: http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=360&cpage=6#comment-20270

    Or see this knol I put together for more on that theme at length: http://knol.google.com/k/paul-d-fernhout/beyond-a-jobless-recovery/38e2u3s23jer/2

    Or see Marshall Brain's story "Manna".

    --
    A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
  94. So we agree - sort of by gr8_phk · · Score: 1

    I agree that innovation is not a sustainable strategy. So given that as a strategy, you must not help the competition. Once they catch up it's an even race. GE is selling engine tech to China because China does not yet have it. However they're obtaining it by making the big players compete for some short-term business. We're teaching them to fish rather than selling them a fish because we're too greedy. We're focused on tactical deals in an economic game of strategy.