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Scientists Work To Grow Meat In a Lab

codeman07 writes "In a small laboratory on an upper floor of the basic science building at the Medical University of South Carolina, Vladimir Mironov, M.D., Ph.D., has been working for a decade to grow meat. A developmental biologist and tissue engineer, Dr. Mironov, 56, is one of only a few scientists worldwide involved in bioengineering 'cultured' meat. It's a product he believes could help solve future global food crises resulting from shrinking amounts of land available for growing meat the old-fashioned way... on the hoof. Growth of 'in-vitro' or cultured meat is also underway in the Netherlands, Mironov told Reuters in an interview, but in the United States, it is science in search of funding and demand."

376 comments

  1. Damn academics by QuantumG · · Score: 2

    Make higher quality meat than most of the current producers (that's not hard, we're not talking wagyu here) and do it cheaper than them (and that *really* shouldn't be hard, you're basically making beer here).

    Economics will do the rest.

    --
    How we know is more important than what we know.
    1. Re:Damn academics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      do it cheaper than them (and that *really* shouldn't be hard, you're basically making beer here)

      Can you really imagine all those industries involved in producing "traditional" meat to just watch and do nothing about it? All those multi-trillion dollar industries? Livestock/crops/feedingstuff/etc. corporations (especially notoriously corrupt ones like Monsanto) will not sit idly by. They will lobby for so many regulations, restrictions, bogus studies and whatnot, so that "grown" meat won't be competitive.

    2. Re:Damn academics by QuantumG · · Score: 1

      More likely they'll just perfect the techniques and patent them.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    3. Re:Damn academics by georgesdev · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'll be 100 in 2060. May I ask that this "invention" waits until then to hit the shops. Seriously, people pretend to do this for the sake of ecology. But I see this as the opposite of ecology. Plus it reminds me of the ersatz people made during the second world war (sugar from tissue, etc ...)

    4. Re:Damn academics by c0lo · · Score: 1

      Make higher quality meat than most of the current producers (that's not hard, we're not talking wagyu here) and do it cheaper than them (and that *really* shouldn't be hard, you're basically making beer here).

      Economics will do the rest.

      You've got it wrong, buddy, the "economy doing the rest" I mean. Here's my take on the "faith in the economy at work" (I dare you to prove me wrong, with real-world examples in the last 10 years):

      1. set up the process to produce meant and do it at a good enough quality (don;t care even to do it at "higher than most of the producers", the trick is: you don't need to. Don't believe me? Continue reading)

      2. outsource the production plants to India/China. This is how they'll become cheaper (and the associated env impact NIMBY, who cares that some people the other side of the globe commit suicide or are poisoned in the process?)

      3. create the MeatMart chain of stores to distribute the product to US. Macas and BurgerKing will be quite happy to have a slice of it (better said "a mince of it")... after all, their most stable consumers don't care if it can be made to taste reasonable (read: "deep fried and/or full of saturated fats, MSG and other flavor enhancers"), it's dirt cheap and comes in supersized serves (now they'll be able to have it HYPERSIZED for the same price).

      4. drive into the ground the US farmers, by I-don't-know-what-miracle (hormones and mexican workforce in slaughter-houses?) they still manage somehow to produce excess of beef carcases for the export (7.2 percent in 2009).. That's simply unacceptable, better drive them 9 feet under, they'll be quiet and won't get to use their shotguns the X-th amendment allows them to bear for just-in-case

      5. ... profit... (what else).

      As extension, whine hard about taxes and use some of your (untaxed, in a Cayman Island bank) profit to sponsor the Tea Party, lobby the Congress and fuel another bubble (at your choice, but don't try another house bubble as yet: the "economics" isn't now quite on the "build and they'll come" side)

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    5. Re:Damn academics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Make higher quality meat than most of the current producers (that's not hard, we're not talking wagyu here) and do it cheaper than them (and that *really* shouldn't be hard, you're basically making beer here).

      The problem isn't that we don't have enough farm/ranch land, the problem is that we're building cities on top of it. Hell, when the US put in the Interstate Highway system we ruined multiple millions of acres of prime farm land. The reason why our roads used to be so twisty and winding is that we used to build our roads around the good crop land.... now we just plow it all under and built the straightest road so people can drive faster, which ruins most of the land. The fragments which are left over usually aren't large enough to warrant growing crops or use as grazing land.

      Economics will do the rest.

      Well they already are. We value that land more highly for building homes and shopping malls than for food, and until the price of the food reaches a point where it's more profitable to farm than sell off for development people are just going to keep selling their land.

    6. Re:Damn academics by c0lo · · Score: 1

      Economics will do the rest.

      Well they already are. We value that land more highly for building homes and shopping malls than for food, and until the price of the food reaches a point where it's more profitable to farm than sell off for development people are just going to keep selling their land.

      Gotta be kidding, right? I mean, what is there to build with so many foreclosures? Shantytowns?

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    7. Re:Damn academics by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Economics will do the rest.

      "Economics" is closer to astrology than it is to physics.

      If you think you can count on "economics" to do anything you are a silly rabbit.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    8. Re:Damn academics by commodore6502 · · Score: 0, Troll

      You're strange. I'd sooner eat cloned muscle from a lab, then from an animal that's been abused, bled to death, and chopped up.

      --
      Information wants to be expensive AND wants to be free. So you have Value vs. Cheap distribution fighting each other.
    9. Re:Damn academics by commodore6502 · · Score: 1

      (whispers)

      Hey - most US farmers were already put out of business by megacorps like Monsanto and Archer-Daniels Midland..... similar to what happened with the tinkers, tailors, and candlestick makers. Corporations are more efficient and harvest corn/cows/other products cheaper than a bunch of single farmers. So the farmers were driven-out a long time ago, and only a few souls remain.

      --
      Information wants to be expensive AND wants to be free. So you have Value vs. Cheap distribution fighting each other.
    10. Re:Damn academics by Lord+Byron+II · · Score: 1

      Amen. Yummy food, environmentally friendly, and guilt free? Sign me up!

    11. Re:Damn academics by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 1

      Yummy food, environmentally friendly, and guilt free?

      Soylent Green is made out of PEOPLE!

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    12. Re:Damn academics by c0lo · · Score: 1

      (whispers)

      Hey - most US farmers were already put out of business by megacorps like Monsanto and Archer-Daniels Midland..... similar to what happened with the tinkers, tailors, and candlestick makers. Corporations are more efficient and harvest corn/cows/other products cheaper than a bunch of single farmers. So the farmers were driven-out a long time ago, and only a few souls remain.

      Ok. Simply ignore point 4, tick it as "already done".

      So, let the govt chip in for Mironov's research and then let Monsanto take care of the whole caboodle once it's done, they know how to do it.

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    13. Re:Damn academics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yummy food, environmentally friendly, and guilt free?

      Soylent Green is made out of PEOPLE!

      Nah, not so catchy. How about:

      Soylent Green: Of the people, by the people, for the people.

    14. Re:Damn academics by ShadoHawk · · Score: 1

      Yummy food, environmentally friendly, and guilt free?

      Soylent Green is made out of PEOPLE!

      Wonderful, delicious people. I mean it can't be THAT bad. It gives us the nutrients we need to survive.

    15. Re:Damn academics by fractoid · · Score: 2

      More likely they'll just perfect the techniques and patent them.

      Pretty much. Look at all the companies who, 20 years ago, sold film and photo processing. What do they sell now? Digital cameras, memory sticks and glossy colour printers. Growing meat in a lab may well require so much in the way of artificial stomachs, intestines, muscle-exercise machinery, nutrient fluid pumping and other apparatus that you may as well wrap it in leather and call it a "cow". If it turns out to be more profitable than traditional farming, then the meat producing and processing industries will adapt by adopting it.

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    16. Re:Damn academics by rjstanford · · Score: 1

      Wonderful, delicious people. I mean it can't be THAT bad. It gives us the nutrients we need to survive.

      Soylent Green is Brawndo?

      --
      You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
    17. Re:Damn academics by Vernes · · Score: 1

      You said it!
      There is so much more money to be made growing the soybeans for the livestock.
      Just a little investment paying corrupt foreign governments to chop down some rain forests to grow acres of the stuff adds so many more opportunities to make a nice profit.
      And the livestock itself? Just claim it's all stalled in green free pastures and is costly, while in fact we have to shoehorn them out of their boxes for slaughter.
      You point me one meat eater who can taste the bruises and I'll show you a lair!

      Labmeat.. pfff. You can't make a profit with that stuff. It's too clean. No room to swindle a profit out of it.
      No need for expensive pastures, chemicals instead of food. That shit fits inside a skyscraper!

      But don't you worry Sir, the meat industry has deep, DEEP pockets. We will make sure you'll never have to see lab-meat as long as you live.

      sarcasm? pff, THAT's original...

    18. Re:Damn academics by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Food isn't a luxury item though, and most people in the world they need meat in their diet to be healthy. A better comparison is medicine and how it first becomes available to people in the first world who can afford it, then filters down to the third world where people really need it just to live.

      Some countries already ignore patents on drugs and if anyone ever perfected this technique I can see a lot of justification for doing the same thing.

      As for the technical side it would probably be a case of having an "animal" which grows a lot of meat that you can cut away without killing it. Effectively limbs that can be amputated and grow back.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    19. Re:Damn academics by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      The difference between astrology and economics is that astrologers have accurate measurements on which to build their BS theories.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    20. Re:Damn academics by fractoid · · Score: 1

      Food isn't a luxury item. Meat is, though (to an extent). Sure, unless you put some effort into eating a balanced diet, your nutrient intake will be a little less than awesome - but it's perfectly possible to live without. I agree with your comparison with medicine, though. And as with medicine, for a while it'll be the big brands making all the dough but after a few years the generic manufacturers will be churning out exactly the same product for 1/5th the price.

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    21. Re:Damn academics by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      I don't dispute that you can live without meat, but for many people in the world the kind of balanced diet that compensates for not eating meat isn't available.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    22. Re:Damn academics by ibsteve2u · · Score: 1

      "Economics" is closer to astrology than it is to physics.

      Particularly here in the U.S., where a tragic consequence of "flood-up/trickle-down" economics is sufficient liquidity to enable those individuals whose drive to attain yet more liquidity overwhelms any qualms they might once have had about intentionally distorting commodities markets....whether the commodity in question be corn, hog bellies, or oil.

      Using mathematical formulas to predict economic trends and outcomes always did run into problems handling "fads" (although you could attack that with chaos theory). But predicting the whims of the greedy HNWI?

      That's like predicting what an evil Harry Potter would do - except their magic wand is cash, both in bulk and further leveraged.

      --
      Orwell: "In a Time of Universal Deceit, telling the Truth is a Revolutionary Act"
    23. Re:Damn academics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pretty much. Look at all the companies who, 20 years ago, sold film and photo processing. What do they sell now?

      Not every industry is willing to adapt. If they are influential enough, they might just decide to simply force everybody else to stick to their business model. Look at the music industry for example.

    24. Re:Damn academics by nharmon · · Score: 1

      It's what meat craves.

    25. Re:Damn academics by ElectricTurtle · · Score: 0

      So, the short summary of that agenda-driven polemic appears to be that you agree it will happen, you just want to whine about how it will be economically viable as opposed to supporting a romanticized utopia? Yeah, that was real helpful. Can I have my five minutes back?

      --
      I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
    26. Re:Damn academics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As for the technical side it would probably be a case of having an "animal" which grows a lot of meat that you can cut away without killing it. Effectively limbs that can be amputated and grow back.

      No, it will just be meat, the whole point of this is there would be no animal. The flesh would be artificially given nutrients until it grows to size, but there would be no organs, just some sort of pump to push the necessary nutrients through. The ASPCA and about a billion other groups would have just a little bit of an issue with a genetically engineered animal that we hack limbs off of.

    27. Re:Damn academics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So go ahead. We're waiting.

    28. Re:Damn academics by ikkonoishi · · Score: 1

      The FDA will see that it never gets off the ground. It doesn't have rich enough lobbyists for their taste.

    29. Re:Damn academics by AmaDaden · · Score: 2

      I don't dispute that you can live without meat

      I do. http://voraciouseats.com/2010/11/19/a-vegan-no-more/ It's long and anecdotal but worth a read. The general gist of it is that she was a vegan for many years but get horribly sick because no matter what she tried she could not put together a diet that did not leave her in a state of malnutrition. Once she (very very reluctantly) started eating meat again she was back to healthy in no time.

      As a species we have eaten meat for too long. Yes, Americans eat far to much meat and some people might be able to do with out it but to say that it's possible for everyone to do with out it is wrong.

      An important point in that link is that she clams to have contacted other vegan bloggers and they said in private that they cheat and have meat on occasion to keep healthy. To me this is a sign that while many people brag about having not eaten meat in X years most of them are likely lying to preserve their hard earned and (in their social circles) highly respected vegan status. They put so much effort in to something they believed in only to have it thrown back in their face as impossible must be a horrible experience that they refuse to come to terms with.

    30. Re:Damn academics by khallow · · Score: 1

      "Economics" is closer to astrology than it is to physics.

      The problem with economics is conflicts of interest not that it somehow isn't a science. Sure, you can't run alternate versions of the world in some lab, but you can test microeconomies in the lab and this has been done.

      The problem isn't that economic theories are in some way inherently untestable, but rather that trillions of dollars ride on the outcome of economic decisions.

      In comparison, the only place that physics intersects with that kind of money is in climatology. In this area, we see precisely the same sort of problems that appear in economics.

    31. Re:Damn academics by psm321 · · Score: 1

      And I'm sure in the societies where a large portion of society is vegetarian they're all lying and secretly sneak in meat, right?

    32. Re:Damn academics by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 1

      But what if we engineered the animal to *want* its limbs hacked off for food?

    33. Re:Damn academics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I think scientists should do something about the current state of meat which is insufficiently delicious. People think current meat is good and even irreplaceable but truly delicious meat could exceed the tastiness of current meat by six or seven orders of magnitude.

    34. Re:Damn academics by AmaDaden · · Score: 1

      Name one. I could be wrong about this but I bet any society that you have in mind does have a source of meat or at least animal product. In some they are hunters so the meat is rare, in others they have fish or eggs in their diet. Like I said the American diet has WAY to much meat in it but a diet with no meat at all is not something I think most people can live on.

    35. Re:Damn academics by DrXym · · Score: 1
      You're strange. I'd sooner eat cloned muscle from a lab, then from an animal that's been abused, bled to death, and chopped up.

      That should really depend on whether it is edible and tasty and cheap to produce. If it's the meat equivalent of tofu being some nondescript slab of substance you can expect it to go down as well as tofu with the general public. It would probably end competing with mechanically separated meats as the filler sludge in cheap canned food and hotdogs where it's not really saving any animal's life.

      If they can produce something which is textured, tastes of what it's supposed to taste of, doesn't involve some horrific chemical process during it's manufacture then yes it could do well. I suppose to continue the tofu analogy, it should be closer to quorn than it is to tofu.

    36. Re:Damn academics by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Vegan != vegitarian

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    37. Re:Damn academics by TheLink · · Score: 1

      There are many in India who are vegetarian but they consume milk and milk products. It's not the healthiest of diets though.

      There's plenty of scientific research showing that having some sea fish regularly (but not too often - due mercury and other pollutants) is good for most humans.

      --
    38. Re:Damn academics by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      Well, screw that.

      They can try to grow all the 'meat' they want in a petri dish, but fuck that...I'll buy real dead animal meat.

      Hell, even today...for GOOD meat, I'll pay the premium. We have a few stores around now...that sell prime grade beef...and they dry age it too. Sure, that big 1.5 inch thick tbone was just over (about $22/lb) $50....but it was worth every penny of it!!

      No, I don't do that level of beef very often, but it is a treat from time to time.

      I'm more into quality over quantity these days....I don't eat cheap ass beef. I'll get something good....

      I can't see my ass ever buying artificial, lab grown 'meat'. Why would I ever want such a thing?

      Hell, at this point in my life..I"m trying to avoid as many artificial, man made foods as I can...I shop on th edges of the grocery store, and avoid as much of the processed shit as I can...I cook from scratch.

      This does not sounds like a food source for me.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    39. Re:Damn academics by AmaDaden · · Score: 1

      True and I should have been clearer on this. Part of my point is that any vegitarian must have some animal product if they want to be healthy. Maintaining animals you don't plan to eat is not much easier then maintaining animals you do plan to eat. Clearly synthetic eggs would be similar to lab grown meat. But I also think that synthetic meat is similar to the kind of synthetic milk you would need to support a healthy vegitarian diet.

    40. Re:Damn academics by AmaDaden · · Score: 2

      I have a friend who has grown up on this diet. He eats eggs and drinks milk. I've talked to him about vegans vs vegetarians and he agrees that people can't be healthy on a vegan diet. An interesting note is that he also thinks how important dairy is to this diet may be why cows are considered sacred in India.

    41. Re:Damn academics by rbooth100 · · Score: 1

      ...such as the Ameglian Major Cow?

    42. Re:Damn academics by Doctor+Faustus · · Score: 1

      I like meat, but the fact that it came out of a corpse is far more distasteful to me than growing in a lab ever could be.

    43. Re:Damn academics by ThePromenader · · Score: 1

      ...true, but in the sense that economists and astrologists have one thing in common: the will to exploit human ignorance to greedy ends. Physicists (those who remain uncorrupted, at least) share no such goal.

      --

      No, no sig. Really.

      ThePromenader
    44. Re:Damn academics by elsJake · · Score: 1

      I'm a strict "meat is meat and i will take no substitutes" kind of guy , however I have on occasion tasted so called "soy schintels" or TVP and found them to be acceptable when it comes to taste and texture. It does actually taste like meat, what does betray it's nature is the lack of fat ,mostly.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textured_vegetable_protein As the article says you could mix it 1:3 with ground meat and not tell the difference.
      Again , i like my meat , however if you're into replacing part of your meat intake with anything vegetable that's the most "meat like" product i've found. Tofu's just horrible.

    45. Re:Damn academics by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      And yet, no problem with the same behavior to plants?

    46. Re:Damn academics by Z1NG · · Score: 1

      Well, the Jains of India don't use animal products. Heck, I think they even avoid root vegetables because they want fewer insects harmed.
      I've been mostly* a vegan for about 8 years - and I'm not remotely careful with balancing my diet. I'm not saying that's a good thing - maybe it's just lucky I haven't developed rickets or something, but my anecdotal evidence is just as good as yours.
      I'm not going to argue that being vegan is the healthiest way to live, I don't think it is. It is interesting to note though that both Dr. Mcdougall and Dr. Ornish both encourage diets with reduced or eliminated animal content for the reduction and reversal of heart disease. I think veganism/vegetarianism is typically more a political choice based on moral or ethical values.

      * I say mostly because I have had some eggs (less than a couple of dozen) from one of my wife's relatives who has chickens and I don't have a problem with honey, plus when I eat out I can't check the ingredients on everything so I don't worry to much about the possibility of eggs or dairy.

    47. Re:Damn academics by Graff · · Score: 1

      I'll be 100 in 2060. May I ask that this "invention" waits until then to hit the shops.

      I really don't see the problem. As the article talks about, there are tons of manufactured foods that can be high-quality and tasty: beer, wine, bread, cheese, tofu, soy milk, almond milk, gelatin, and many more. All of these can be found in high-quality versions that taste great, at least to those people who enjoy that particular food item! ;-)

      Sure these technologies can be used to make bad quality food as well as good quality food but that doesn't mean that it won't be worthwhile. The same thing can be said about "natural" food production methods such as farming. You can get some pretty awful meat from a farm, as well as some of the tastiest steaks.

      I welcome the development of manufactured meat. I'm sure there will be some amazingly tasty and inexpensive products since it provides solutions to many of the more difficult problems in food production: climate, transportation, disease, animal rights, genetics, and so on.

      Most importantly, even if it becomes a viable method of producing food it will be years before it becomes a sizable fraction of our food supply. I expect there will always be "natural" sources of food even after that point so you'll be able to make your own choices of "natural" vs manufactured meat.

    48. Re:Damn academics by Belial6 · · Score: 0

      You use emotionally charged language to describe the eating of food that you don't like. Do you use equally charged language to discuss the eating of plants? You don't think that plants naturally line up in those neat little rows on their own do you? No, they are forced to grow in cramped spaces, lined up in strict rows. The ones that stray too far are killed in their youth. Any plant's that don't fit the genetic profile that the farmer is looking for is ripped from it's food source. Often people do these things to plants, just because they like the way it looks. They rip them from their homes and stick them in their yards where they proceed to hack off limbs for their own pleasure.

      Cows are food. Oranges are food. Neither is treated like a human. That's OK.

    49. Re:Damn academics by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      "I like meat, but the fact that it came out of a corpse is far more distasteful to me than growing in a lab ever could be."

      Well, I think the way you feel is becoming more and more common...and I think that is due in large part to how abstracted food has become to people. Between processed foods...and well, the state you buy even more raw ingredients.

      The other day I was cooking with this chick, I like to cook...and was going to have her mix up some ground beef or something....and she was almost horrified to have to *touch* raw meat. I was thinking....geez..when did this become a problem.

      Heck...good thing it wasn't like the old days when you sent a kid out into the yard to grab a live chicken, and snap its neck and bring it in to clean..etc. Today, I guess people don't realize that that chicken wasn't born and raised in that cellophane wrapped carton.

      I've actually been amazed in the past decade or so..on how many people (men and women) that are squeamish about handling raw meat...hell, these days I amaze people in being able to cut up a whole chicken into parts cleanly, safely and quickly...

      People need to remember, we are just animals with a broader vocabulary. But just like the things we eat....we sleep, shit, fuck...and kill and eat other living things in order to survive.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    50. Re:Damn academics by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      The irony in your post is thick.

    51. Re:Damn academics by eldepeche · · Score: 1

      I don't know about selling labmeat to fast food chains. Didn't you hear people freaking out about Taco Bell "meat" not containing things other than meat? And that is the chain with food that least resembles its ingredients.

    52. Re:Damn academics by AmaDaden · · Score: 1

      Interesting group. I think they are as close as any group can get but they still drink milk. I'm not sure what's in milk exactly but I would think it's closer to meat then to soy milk. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jain_vegetarianism

      This might surprise you but I agree with you on just about all points. Some people can do it and if you can, I'm happy for you. The people that bother me are the militant vegans who claim that if you can't do it's YOUR fault and that not eating animals solves all your health issues.

      Personally I've been waiting for lab meat ever since I found out where meat comes from as a kid. I don't want to kill some other creature to eat but not doing so not reasonable until lab meat is a reality.

    53. Re:Damn academics by Graff · · Score: 1

      And I'm sure in the societies where a large portion of society is vegetarian they're all lying and secretly sneak in meat, right?

      There's a big difference here.

      First of all, your body adapts somewhat to your diet but a lot of it is fixed in your youth. A lot of your enzymatic processes are adapted to how you eat when you are developing, even back in the womb. Your body configures itself to best extract the nutrition that you are given as you grow up. Now you can develop some of this as an adult but it's slower, takes longer, not as efficient, and you may not even reach the same level as someone brought up on this sort of diet.

      Secondly, these cultures have, generally, been living on these diets for generations. They grow certain foods, process them in certain ways, have microorganisms with which they have formed symbiotic relationships, and so on. We can duplicate these to some extent but it's very difficult to get to the same level of symbiosis in our lives that these cultures have over generations.

      Thirdly, a lot of these populations have evolved to better handle this sort of diet. Yes, there hasn't been an extreme amount of specialization to the point where they are a different species or anything but there are still huge differences in how certain populations handle foods. Take a look at lactose intolerance, generally northern europeans handle milk easily but large parts of the world can barely tolerate it due to the the genetics of the production of the enzyme lactase.

      The same thing happens with many different food types. Some people are genetically more able to handle a high-vegetable, low-meat diet than others. There are tons of interactions between enzymes, nutrient extraction, internal vitamin production, glucose tolerance, stomach acidity, and other factors.

      That's why some people can do pretty well on a vegan diet and others are practically killing themselves. As in most things, moderation is the key. Nearly everyone can thrive on a diet which is mostly vegetables and which includes a modicum of animal products. It's when we swing wildly in the direction of too much or too little of one or the other that we are engaging in a crapshoot. Maybe the conditions are right for you to be a herbivore or carnivore but chances are you really need to be an omnivore.

      The key to any diet is to periodically evaluate how you are doing on it. Occasionally try some changes for a while and see how it works out. Keep a record of stuff like energy levels, weight, any unusual sicknesses or conditions, amount of exercise. Once in a while do a high-level review and see if any major swings jump out at you. Most of all, try to distance yourself emotionally from the data, maybe have your doctor do the review for you.

    54. Re:Damn academics by mobby_6kl · · Score: 1

      Ok, so what's the downside to your scenario?

    55. Re:Damn academics by Z1NG · · Score: 1

      I actually thought Jains didn't consume dairy - but apparently many do. Thanks for pointing that out. I agree about militant vegans, that kind of attitude is why many people are uncomfortable around vegetarians/vegans and partially why I don't typically make a big deal about my own eating habits to other people. Some people are just standing up for what they believe in, which is a good thing, but I don't think the aggressive "militant" stance is very helpful. Other people just want to point out how different they are and get attention.

    56. Re:Damn academics by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      The problem isn't that economic theories are in some way inherently untestable, but rather that trillions of dollars ride on the outcome of economic decisions.

      You have just described why there is no such thing as a "free market" or "free market economics".

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    57. Re:Damn academics by camperdave · · Score: 1

      You can't pasture feed your animals anymore. It violates interstate commerce.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    58. Re:Damn academics by shawb · · Score: 1

      PETA would have an issue with it. PETA doesn't even want you to have pets.

      --
      I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
    59. Re:Damn academics by TheSync · · Score: 1

      I don't dispute that you can live without meat

      I do.

      You are may want to talk to the >300 million strict vegetarians in India...

    60. Re:Damn academics by AmaDaden · · Score: 1

      If you are referring to the Jains they have been discussed elsewhere in this thread. The conclusion was that most of them depend on milk for their diet. While not meat it's close enough to prove that humans need animals for food.

    61. Re:Damn academics by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 1

      OK... what if we engineered the animal to attack and kill PETA members, and *then* want to be eaten?

      Or am I expecting too much precision from my mutagenic horrors?

    62. Re:Damn academics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      GP probably meant "economy of scale" or "supply and demand" or something.

      I agree with his general premise that if you can grow higher quality meat for cheaper than existing producers, then the market would quickly embrace that.

    63. Re:Damn academics by khallow · · Score: 1

      You have just described why there is no such thing as a "free market" or "free market economics".

      I disagree. Even if no market can possibly meet the pure definition (for a variety of reasons, including the inability to collectively resist temptation), it's still very useful as an approximation. For example, I'd consider it an adequate first order approximation to US stock markets.

    64. Re:Damn academics by Walt+Dismal · · Score: 1

      For all intents and purposes, mechanically separated chicken is exactly like lab-grown cells. It's been pretty much homogenized and nearly emulsified. And the consumer masses already eat it and do not notice the difference. In the 1950s Fred Pohl and Cyril Kornbluth wrote The Space Merchants, a novel, wherein industry grew synthetic protein meatstuffs in vats. "Skum-skimming wasn't hard to learn. You got up at dawn. You gulped a breakfast sliced not long ago from Chicken Little and washed it down with Coffiest. You put on your coveralls and took the cargo net up to your tier. In blazing noon from sunrise to sunset you walked your acres of shallow tanks crusted with algae. If you walked slowly, every thirty seconds or so you spotted a patch at maturity, bursting with yummy carbohydrates. You skimmed the patch with your skimmer and slung it down the well, where it would be baled, or processed into glucose to feed Chicken Little, who would be sliced and packed to feed people from Baffinland to Little America. "

    65. Re:Damn academics by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1

      You've got it wrong, buddy, the "economy doing the rest" I mean. Here's my take...

      My god, that's breathtaking. You've leapt the chasm from one man's vision to an unpleasant long term result in one cynical bound.

      Grats!

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
    66. Re:Damn academics by Wandering+Idiot · · Score: 1

      Plants don't have nervous systems, brains, consciousness, the ability to feel pain, etc. your argument fails pathetically. You do realize humans are mammals as well, right?

    67. Re:Damn academics by c0lo · · Score: 1

      You've got it wrong, buddy, the "economy doing the rest" I mean. Here's my take...

      My god, that's breathtaking. You've leapt the chasm from one man's vision to an unpleasant long term result in one cynical bound.

      Can't help... life's too short to waste with same old stories: tell them, be done with them and, if possible, do something meaningful.

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    68. Re:Damn academics by c0lo · · Score: 1

      Boredom. We've seen it already and there are too little chances for something new and better.
      (is that sand comfy for your head?)

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    69. Re:Damn academics by c0lo · · Score: 1

      So, the short summary of that agenda-driven polemic appears to be that you agree it will happen, you just want to whine about how it will be economically viable as opposed to supporting a romanticized utopia? Yeah, that was real helpful. Can I have my five minutes back?

      Nope... the moment you started to read my post you implicitly agreed with the EULA, Terms of Service, warranty conditions, disclaimer, waiver of rights and the whole legalese kit.

      What is even worse for you: you did all the above when you were born. Get over it and go back in line, your future is already cast.

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    70. Re:Damn academics by Unkyjar · · Score: 1
    71. Re:Damn academics by geekoid · · Score: 1

      No. Economics can explain and predict certain events and responses. No, it's not as solid as physics, but astrogie offers nothing.

      For example:
      People know the market bubble was going to pop. A few people made billions. A lot of other people didn't listen to them.

      If you put to object of equal value, the cheaper onje will prevail. Remember, Value doesn't have to be real, just perceived.

      Yes, economics is complex, but that doesn't make it unknowable or worthless.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    72. Re:Damn academics by geekoid · · Score: 1

      No, they don't have accurate measurements at all.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    73. Re:Damn academics by commodore6502 · · Score: 1

      >>>But I see this as the opposite of ecology

      You're strange. I'd sooner eat cloned muscle from a lab, then from an animal that's been abused, bled to death, and chopped up.

      --
      Information wants to be expensive AND wants to be free. So you have Value vs. Cheap distribution fighting each other.
    74. Re:Damn academics by Belial6 · · Score: 0

      Plants are one shade of gray on the wide range of complexity that is life. You have drawn a arbitrary line and declared it the point of morality. A plant isn't a mammal, a cow isn't a primate. Humans are omnivores. If you want to discuss the natural order of life, it is perfectly natural for us to eat cows. If you want to speak to the our 'enlightened' intellect, then your arbitrary line of what organs the other life has is no better than hand waving. Plants absolutely respond to external stimuli. While the structures for this response is not the same as in animals, it is there all the same. Your argument falls into the common trap of only thinking it though far enough to come up with the answer you want, and then ignoring everything else.

      Drawing the line at multi-cellular life makes just as much sense as mammal. So, when you think about how absurd you fell my argument is, you should understand that your argument is just as absurd to anyone who has picked a different arbitrary line to draw in the gray scale of life's complexity.

    75. Re:Damn academics by psm321 · · Score: 1

      Parts of India in particular is what I was thinking of, but yeah it's not vegan (lots of dairy)

    76. Re:Damn academics by Meski · · Score: 1

      If you wait til you're 100 til you eat test-tube meat, likely it'll be getting minced up for you...

    77. Re:Damn academics by Vernes · · Score: 1

      You seem to ignore my jabs at the ecological impact of the meat industry as well as the financial and political ones.
      I wonder why.
      Although I must agree that the emotional (oh poor Bessie21 is slaughtered) argument is easily discarded, which might offer the sense of a quick victory.
      That is, if you ignore the other arguments.
      The 'shoehorning the brushed heifer' was a mere cosmetic additive to add some color to the whole argument and I feel that the argument can still stand without it.

      The negative impact the meat industry has on the environment goes beyond just the product itself (something I was hoping to relay but failed with you).
      Labmeat might offer a way to shrink the sphere of influence the meat industry holds, the moral involved is just a nice additive.

      But perhaps you don't care, like 90% of the world, in which case you don't have to counter ANY of my arguments.

    78. Re:Damn academics by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Yes, economics is complex, but that doesn't make it unknowable or worthless.

      I didn't say it was "unknowable". I said it was not a science. At best it is approximately like psychology.

      Economists record of "prediction" is about as good as your average psychic.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    79. Re:Damn academics by Phoghat · · Score: 1

      I can tell you how ersatz people were made, but then I'd have to kill you

      --
      Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    80. Re:Damn academics by Phoghat · · Score: 1

      "“Did you ever think that making a speech on economics is a lot like pissing down your leg? It seems hot to you, but it never does to anyone else.” LBJ

      --
      Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    81. Re:Damn academics by DrXym · · Score: 1

      I like textured soy and I like quorn. I don't know if the latter is sold in other countries but you get it in the UK & Ireland. It has a texture and taste similar to chicken. It's made from a fungus (probably in huge revolting vats of sludge) which is strained and bound together with egg white. So strictly speaking chickens are still involved but not committed to its production. I'm sure I would puke my guts up if I saw it being made but it tastes quite nice. Soy is best as a beef substitute and works pretty well but sometimes I find it has quite a sharp taste. I do keep a couple of packets of soy mince handy since they're a standby for making chilli / spag in emergencies. I'm not a vegetarian but I enjoy the odd vegetarian meal simply for the variety. I really can't stand tofu though which is like a cube of white snot.

  2. "Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by intellitech · · Score: 1

    It's got a nice ring to it, doesn't it? That would look great on the front of any packaged meat. In fact, sales will probably skyrocket. End sarcasm. I would really like to see how they would manage to market that, though.

    --
    vos nescitis quicquam, nec cogitatis quia expedit nobis ut unus moriatur homo pro populo et non tota gens pereat.
    1. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by Tukz · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If it contains all the minerals, proteins, aminoacids and generally all the qualities of regular meat, I don't give a damn what's on the label.
      Though, I'd think they give it some catchy name or catch phrase.

      "I can't believe it's not meat!"

      --
      - Don't do what I do, it's probably not healthy nor safe. -
    2. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Drop the bio-engineered part.
      Just call it cultured meat.
      Or invent some new label like they did with biological produce.
      Or best of all just sell it as cheap meat.

    3. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by somersault · · Score: 1

      Likewise. If they started putting this in fast food, people wouldn't care any more than they care that their current chicken nuggets are only 10% chicken or whatever. In fact this would probably make fast food slightly more appealing.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    4. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by Vlobulle · · Score: 2

      Easy: make it cheaper than the cheapest meat you can currently find in your average supermarket.

    5. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by benjamindees · · Score: 1

      roast beast sandwich

      --
      "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
    6. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sarcasm aside, if it will give starving people a chance at a meal, good for them. I doubt it would be cost effective though. Something about growing meat in a lab doesn't sound cheap.

    7. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe it's not for you. There are over 6 billion people on earth - most of whom would benefit from this.

    8. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by ledow · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Please, then, stick with your steroid-injected, BSE-ridden, hormone-packed, coloured, flavoured, seasoned, salted, vitamin-fortified, water-engorged joints of meat that are currently on the shelf.

      The problem with people who *won't* buy "genetically modified", non-organic etc. foods is that they have no idea what they are *currently* eating anyway.

      Growing "clean" meat in a lab sounds a good way to produce cheap meat for actually *feeding* people, e.g. developing countries, without needing to have acres of perfectly-good farmland dedicated to producing enough feed to sustain a whole herd of animals for years in order to slaughter one at a later date.

      It would also work well for "essentials" meat, such as superstore value ranges for people who can only just afford it. I think I'd rather eat a generic, clean meat than the cheap offcuts of the cheapest animal, packaged in the cheapest possible way - especially if there are no possible BSE, etc. problems with it.

      And meat production currently causes 18% of the world's greenhouse-gas emissions, and for various meats we push somewhere between 4 and 54 times the amount of energy into producing meat than we get in useful protein from the meat.

      I don't give a shit what it says on the packet - and a bit of honesty would go a long way with me, in fact, rather than misleading and inaccurate statements like "organic" or "diet" or "reduced sugar" etc. - as long as it's edible. That doesn't mean I'd eat it for every meal but as a cheap way to get the energy I need to survive when I don't have much money? Bring it on.

    9. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by Chrisq · · Score: 2

      Easy: make it cheaper than the cheapest meat you can currently find in your average supermarket.

      It would probably have to be as cheap as the "meat substitutes" to sell, as it would be seen by consumers as fake in the same way as the soya-based alternatives.

    10. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by Chrisq · · Score: 2

      Maybe it's not for you. There are over 6 billion people on earth - most of whom would benefit from this.

      Would they really? I would think the only people to benefit would be the people who can almost afford meat.For the rest, soya, lentils, chana, and other high-protein crops will still be the cheapest way to maintain a balanced diet.

    11. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by WinstonWolfIT · · Score: 1

      Can't be any harder than "Processed Cheese Food"

    12. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by Captain+Hook · · Score: 2, Informative

      Something about growing meat in a lab doesn't sound cheap.

      The problem with killing an animal for meat is that a hell of a lot of resources go into growing bits you can't eat just to get a single harvest, although those bits are not without their uses; and requires a lot of land to raise them, even more so if you are looking for ethical farming methods because you have to consider psychological wellbeing rather than just physical wellbeing.

      Growing meat in a factory rather than in a field means you can provide just the nutrients needed to grow the bits you actually want to eat, don't require much space and even that space which is needed (however big the VATs and supporting machinery is) can be used more efficently because you can stack the machines into a multistorey building making for a tiny footprint of land use.

      --
      These comments are my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the other voices in my head.
    13. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by dwarfsoft · · Score: 2

      Taco Filling?

      --
      Cheers, Chris
    14. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by Eskarel · · Score: 1

      My personal guess would be low fat, cruelty free.

    15. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > It would also work well for "essentials" meat

      No meat is essential... there are plenty of alternative sources of protein that are more practical to produce and do not require refrigerated storage.

    16. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by pspahn · · Score: 2

      It's an ethically interesting question. If the solution is as simple as building multi-story meat growing labs to save space, what happens if it is found out that eating this stuff gives you some kind of nano-enhanced synthetic cancer or something?

      By that point, the world population is going to be quite a bit larger and even more difficult to feed through contemporary methods, meaning people will have to choose between dying of malnutrition or dying from mega-disease. And for what? Because it's responsible of us to treat our food animals ethically?

      We could just forget the whole ethical treatment thing and figure out how to make giant multi-story real animal farms instead. Hell, plug them into the Matrix or something so they at least think they're just chillin' in some serene mountain meadow.

      That said, this last part isn't for any of you, but for some person finding this post in a random search for "nano-enhanced synthetic cancer" decades or centuries from now. I warned them, don't blame me.

      --
      Someone flopped a steamer in the gene pool.
    17. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by QuantumG · · Score: 1

      .. cause what passes for farming these days will really survive the ability to make food the same way we currently make beer.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    18. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by ProbablyJoe · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's the thing, people go crazy about genetically modified food, think it's wrong and evil, and refuse to eat it. And yet, the same people will gladly eat fast food that has far worse stuff in it. Clearly, McDonalds is far more trustworthy than science. Sigh.

    19. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by QuantumLeaper · · Score: 4, Insightful

      People in the world are starving not because of a lack of world food production, but political situations most of the time.

    20. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by Chrisq · · Score: 1

      .. cause what passes for farming these days will really survive the ability to make food the same way we currently make beer.

      And look at the inputs into beer - barley, hops, yeast. I find it very unlikely that all the input nutrients will be synthesised from inorganic sources.

    21. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by Pinky's+Brain · · Score: 1

      Your multistory cow and vat grown meat are both genetically engineered animals, no real fundamental differences in the methods necessary to create them or their potential side effects.

    22. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by Kilrah_il · · Score: 2

      You are talking about a hypothetical disease from a not quite ready product and use it as an argument as to why it shouldn't be used. Great logic.
      By the same logic, let's assume the synthetic meat not only is cheaper to produce, it also tastes better and since it has less fat in it, is healthier. Now you get something that is both healthy and reduces the need to kill cows. Now people need to choose between dying of malnutrition or living a life without hunger. And you get ethical treatment of cows as a by-product.
      Sounds great!

      The fact of the matter is , there is no finished product yet, but since we are talking about taking meat from cows, culturing it and getting much more meat, I don't see why it should harbor some mystical cancer in it. Guess we should just wait-and-see.

      --
      Whenever in an argument, remember this.
    23. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by QuantumG · · Score: 1

      Your imagination.. try using it sometime.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    24. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It would probably have to be as cheap as the "meat substitutes" to sell, as it would be seen by consumers as fake in the same way as the soya-based alternatives.

      Sounds like a win-win situation to me. Let the average consumer stick to his "tofu is only for hippies, real men eat meat" bullshit if it means cheaper stuff for me. I love to cook (meat, tofu, babies, whatever). The more options I have the better. If it's less expensive because of negative marketing I don't give a damn about, all the better :)

    25. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by peragrin · · Score: 1

      SPAM

      simple enough isn't it?

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    26. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by msauve · · Score: 1

      It's Animal 57.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    27. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by lordholm · · Score: 1

      Not really, unlike soya-based alternatives, in-vitro meat is actually really meat.

      --
      "Civis Europaeus sum!"
    28. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 1

      It would probably have to be as cheap as the "meat substitutes" to sell, as it would be seen by consumers as fake in the same way as the soya-based alternatives.

      Which in most cases is more expensive than meat. My wife wanted to do the vegetarian thing for a while, so when I went to buy soyburger, it was about $4 for a 20 oz. package vs. $2.50 for a lb. of 80/20 hamburger. Not a big deal for a family of 4, but it could be if your family is larger. Thankfully the appeal wore off after a month. Now we only eat one or two vegetarian meals a week.

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    29. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by lordholm · · Score: 1

      Something has to be done about all the cows though. If cows become redundant we need to get rid of the cows. I doubt someone will let them out loose in the nature.

      --
      "Civis Europaeus sum!"
    30. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>what happens if it is found out that eating this stuff gives you some kind of nano-enhanced synthetic cancer or something?

      "Prions" is the word you're looking for. Random bits of protein that get into your brain and slowly destroy it (aka mad cow disease). I can easily imagine that being a side effect of cloned lab meat.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    31. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>In fact, sales will probably skyrocket.

      Why not? Fish raised in giant pools sell like mad. People don't care as long as it tastes good.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    32. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by toppavak · · Score: 1

      The only catch in this particular case is that the cell culture methodology used requires the addition of animal serum to the media, otherwise the myoblasts (which are not pluripotent stem cells and cannot divide indefinitely, therefore needing to be freshly generated somehow) would not have the growth factors necessary to drive cell division (since they're not cancer cells, they don't produce enough growth factors on their own to be able to grow spontaneously). Developing a completely synthetic or plant-derived route to culturing these cells would also not be a trivial task since the reason sera are used in culturing mammalian cells is that we don't fully understand all of the growth factors present and what purpose they serve.

    33. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by Kilrah_il · · Score: 1

      I know a good repository.

      --
      Whenever in an argument, remember this.
    34. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by hedwards · · Score: 0

      I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to call bullshit. Genetically modification is bad, and I mean possible world ending bad. The problem is that up until now none of the corporations working on it have bothered with any sort of containment strategy, the research itself should be kept in a facility like they use for the CDC down in Atlanta for obvious reasons.

      Sure, it hasn't been a problem up until now, but the genes don't stay in the plants you're modifying and there's any number of unforeseen consequences from genes mixing in non-obvious ways.

    35. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by h4rm0ny · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you look at anti-GM arguments more closely, you'll find that many (most?) people are opposed to them because there are environmental risks, because one of the most common uses of GM is to allow vastly stronger herbicides / pesticides, because it enables patenting of the food supply, because terminator crops reduce farmer's negotiating power with the companies that make them, because it is unlikely that the modifications can be prevented from entering the general biosphere meaning companies are taking it upon themselves to alter plantlife for everyone without consent and because there are few if any compelling arguments in their favour. At best, they tend to be a patch on a symptom, rather than an actual solution. For example the superbly marketed "golden rice" which contains additonal vitamin A, touted as a great benefit to people in India where deficiency is not uncommon. The thing is, it didn't used to be uncommon when farmers grew a variety of crops. But now due to the pressures of the international market, famers tend to focus on a few money crops (i.e. rice) and thus people don't get the balanced diet that they used to. Slapping some vitamin A into the rice (in exchange for selling your new pesticides and crop licences) is not redress for the damage done to world farming.

      You'll notice that none of this has anything to do with whether or not people eat at McDonalds (which I don't).

      --

      Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
    36. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you look at anti-GM arguments more closely, you'll find that many (most?) people are opposed to them because there are environmental risks, because one of the most common uses of GM is to allow vastly stronger herbicides / pesticides, because it enables patenting of the food supply, because terminator crops reduce farmer's negotiating power with the companies that make them, because it is unlikely that the modifications can be prevented from entering the general biosphere meaning companies are taking it upon themselves to alter plantlife for everyone without consent and because there are few if any compelling arguments in their favour.

      Sounds more like an argument against corporate corruption than GM itself.

    37. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by the+grace+of+R'hllor · · Score: 1

      Well, they managed to make margarine ("Now with cancer-causing transfats!") the de-facto butter for most people.

    38. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by vegiVamp · · Score: 1

      Just label it "Perfectly Normal Beast" and people will buy it.

      --
      What a depressingly stupid machine.
    39. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by RicktheBrick · · Score: 1

      I quote the article "Genetically modified food is already normal practice and nobody dies". I did not know that one could get immortality from eating genetically modified foods. I must be eating the wrong ones. Please advise me on which ones I should eat in order to gain immortality.

    40. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by h4rm0ny · · Score: 1

      People keep eating cows. They're not a permanent feature that must be dealt with somehow. You just have to replace them more slowly until you have reached equalibrium.

      --

      Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
    41. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by ledow · · Score: 1

      Would you like to explain how that's any different to the ordinary evolutionary process where ANY gene can have unforeseen consequences, propagate, do so on a whim, intermix with other "normal" organisms, etc. in a completely unregulated manner? Where every single generation contains many "mutations" (scary word, don't panic!) with virtually absolute certainty, almost all of which will not be beneficial and some of which can be detrimental?

      Genes are highly structured, easily changed (otherwise they wouldn't exist), self-modifying, deliberately mutating, replicating machines. What GE does is to lock down a particular, known, well-tested variant of the species from which we can "clone" (scary word, don't panic!) other, identical specimens. It actually *stops* the process of random mutations and interactions occurring and replaces it with a well-defined one. And if something's going to interact badly with other crops, you will be WISHING it had a well-defined, singular genetic origin that you can study, analyse and counteract.

      That's actually the real problem associated with GE - that we might have a very shallow gene pool in the future from which to extract things and have trouble should something attack a weakness in its genetic structure - but that's *always* been the case, whether GM existed or not. Chances are that without modern vaccines, quarantine, breeding from "known good" specimens, etc. things like BSE, foot-and-mouth, and thousands of other diseases that animals *aren't* naturally immune to would be rampant in the entire food chain.

      It's extraordinarily hard to breed livestock or grow crops without using something along the way that "cheats" nature by providing immunity to things that the animal isn't naturally immune to, or adjusting the yield of the crop. You can do it. And a family can live off it. But if you want to get *anywhere* near the sheer volume of food required for a developed country, (putting aside issues like battery-farming, etc. and concentrating on even a mostly-"organic" farming method) you cannot possibly do so without immunising your animals (sometimes by law), feeding them only regulated foodstuffs (sometimes by law) and deliberately "forcing" crops to grow faster than nature intended.

      So if you want to be "GE-free", you have to stop immunising your animals and "breeding" ones that are immune to a particular disease by picking off the survivors and breeding from them - sounds like GE to me, and also you better hope that the random gene mutation that saves that particular animal doesn't negatively affect its food yield at the same time - if there even IS a random mutation that can provide that immunity and/or that mutation happens by a billion-to-one chance on your particular farm.

      Now, let's be honest, how many thoroughbred racehorses can't trace their ancestry back to a particular single set of genes? Virtually all of them. How much genetic variation do you see in cows bred for even organic meat (i.e. I bet you they got those cows from a a breeder who also used one particularly fine bull's sperm to fertilise thousands of cows who all were bred from a handful of unique "fathers")? Instant genetic mono-culture. How many distinct crops of mushrooms do you think we are using to put on your plate even if we grow them on an organic farm? Probably the ONE that works the best.

      I'm English and therefore eat a lot of potatoes - given that the potato is *not* of European origin, just how do you think they get such numbers of them over here and how do they have them of such even consistency? They choose the "best" (e.g. tastiest, longest-lasting, best-looking, most-resistant, etc.) and use those AND ONLY THOSE to develop the next crops.

      The genetic mono-culture is already there, and we're already playing with it and have been for several thousand years.

      And even avoiding the mono-culture problem, why do you think there are so many breeds of dogs suited to their particular tasks - because we took wolves, deliberately changed their natur

    42. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by h4rm0ny · · Score: 1

      Sounds more like an argument against corporate corruption than GM itself.

      Complicated answer: It can be considered partially such an argument, as some of those reasons given are diminished in an ideal world without such behaviour by corporations. However, these GM crops are developed precisely because these corporations can use them in this manner. The problems that GM crops are claimed to solve, also vanish in a world without these market pressures. Also, note that I referred to market pressures rather than "corporate corruption" as you did. What Monsanto does in trying to get people hooked (for want of a better word) on their patented crops is not 'corruption'. It is merely a socially destructive business practice. Trying to shift the resistance from 'GM crops' to, 'misused GM crops', doesn't improve things, because we're unlikely to see non-misused GM crops. A market where they wouldn't be used in a socially destructive manner is a market where they wouldn't be nearly as much desired by those that make them. It would have to be a very non-free market indeed. Also, not that only a few of the reasons given against GM crops were to do with business practices. Others stand regardless - e.g. environmental damage.

      --

      Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
    43. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by andrewagill · · Score: 1

      Does that make Dr. Mironov, animal, 56?

    44. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by grassy_knoll · · Score: 1

      Along those lines, I'd like an aquarium sized tank for growing my own. Culture up some filet mignon, perhaps.

    45. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      I have been assured by a very knowing American of my acquaintance in London, that a young healthy child well nursed is at a year old a most delicious, nourishing, and wholesome food, whether stewed, roasted, baked, or boiled ...

    46. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by Belial6 · · Score: 0

      I want it with MORE fat. My genes require me to eat high quantities of fat. If I don't get enough fat in my diet, I start packing on weight. The problem with fat right now, is that like salt, it adds really good flavor to food, but if you put too much in your food, it becomes over powering. Particularly when it is in a big ball in the middle of your bite. You don't want to bite into a chunk of fat in the same way that you don't want to bite into a chunk of salt. Vat grown meat could in theory allow them to grow meat that had the fat so pervasively marbled that you wouldn't even call it marbling anymore.

      Mmmmm......

    47. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by eldepeche · · Score: 1

      You get prions into animal muscle by feeding them brain and other nervous tissue. If you're just growing the muscle, and you're controlling what goes into it, there's no way to get prions in there.

    48. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      Please, then, stick with your steroid-injected, BSE-ridden, hormone-packed, coloured, flavoured, seasoned, salted, vitamin-fortified, water-engorged joints of meat that are currently on the shelf.

      The funny part of that statement is that other than BSE-ridden, all the same things could be said about the plant foods we eat as well. Of course, our meat isn't BSE ridden, as that is one disease that is taken VERY seriously. The diseases that taint our plant supplies on the other hand are generally not so closely watched. The fact is that our entire food supply is tainted. This is a direct result of over population. We have all heard the old saying "Don't shit where you eat.". Unfortunately, the worlds population is just too large to avoid it now.

      I agree that truth in labeling would be nice. The most comical packaging I have seen was for orange gummy slices. Because they were basically sugar with the common flavoring of vitamin C, the package of candy had blazoned across the front "Low in Fat! High in Vitamin C!". They were literally trying to sell candy as health food.

    49. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by Graff · · Score: 1

      It's an ethically interesting question. If the solution is as simple as building multi-story meat growing labs to save space, what happens if it is found out that eating this stuff gives you some kind of nano-enhanced synthetic cancer or something?

      This is a textbook red herring argument, the appeal to fear.

      You could say this sort of thing about nearly everything. What if sneezing might cause you to have a embolism that can kill you? What if farm-grown organic vegetables might contain deadly parasites? What if God might get angry at you for not eating what he has commanded you to eat and so he smites you down?

      Of course we should make sure that any new food source is as safe as we can reasonably make it, that's a given. Let's debate on real, known, present issues rather than introducing horror scenarios just to try to sway opinion through fear-mongering.

    50. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Easy, Chicken McNuggets.

    51. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by ohiovr · · Score: 1

      I only eat organic bio engineered cultured meat!

    52. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      without needing to have acres of perfectly-good farmland dedicated to producing enough feed to sustain a whole herd of animals for years

      That somewhat depends on what the traditionalists use to raise their herd vs what the vat meat makers use to feed the vats. You can raise cattle on land that's otherwise not viable for farmland (rocky, not-well-watered, not-very-fertile, but it grows wild grasses fine), in which case it's basically free meat as far as we're concerned. (I'm told most cattle raising is still somewhat done that way; the corn feedlots are only for fattening them up at the last few months before slaughter). The US, for example, has a lot of land that's tough/impractical/unwise to apply mass industrial farming techniques to. There are "right" and "wrong" ways to raise cattle, like anything else.

      With the vats, it depends on whether they make good choices for their chemical sources or whether they merely go with whatever is expedient. IMO they could probably do some really efficient feed if they can use algae or something for it. But I think it's more likely that they'd use the 'waste' from current plant and animal practices (chicken parts, fish guts, dropped or bug-nibbled fruits, excess corn growth) or chemical processes (crude oil can be made into fertilizer, which implies it could be made into vat syrup), and whatever country in the world can do this cheaper will do so to make meat for themselves and for export. (Maybe I'm paranoid. In particular, I'm thinking about those pressurized sawdust wood pellet stoves, that were a great use for worthless wood industry byproduct... until they got so popular they required more fuel than available waste wood, and manufacturers started grinding good wood into powder to make more. Somehow, someone will end up just growing more subsidized corn to throw into the meat vats...). I'd hope for the algae kind of solution though, since it'd be a huge net win all around.

      Probably there'd still be a lot of cattle raising anyway, even if the vat meat is great stuff, because much of the rest of the cow is used for other things too - leather, for example, and bone meal. At least until we figure out how to grow that stuff in vats too. Whoever figures out how to grow white meat (like chicken breasts) cheaply will get rich too. There'd certainly be a huge market for egg-substitute too - eggs are used in a lot of stuff, and the shells are just a nuisance. Hmm, fish (since they're being fished to extinction, like the tuna) and shellfish (shells are a PITA, harvesting is too). My fork is ready and waiting for the technology.

    53. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      Would you like to explain how that's any different to the ordinary evolutionary process where ANY gene can have unforeseen consequences, propagate, do so on a whim, intermix with other "normal" organisms, etc. in a completely unregulated manner?

      One happens over the course of a few years, in isolation. The other happens over the course of centuries to millennia, in a complex and interwoven environment.

      I'm far from being on the anti-GE bandwagon, but the argument that "evolution" - even "manipulated evolution" like selective breeding - and genetic engineering are identical, is specious to the point of utter bullshit.

    54. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by Unkyjar · · Score: 1

      They'll call it "SPAM II: The search for more meat"

    55. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by Unkyjar · · Score: 1

      Actually insects are a major source of protein for a large portion of the world. Over 80% of the world eats insects intentionally and 100% eat them unintentionally.

      http://www.indiaenvironmentportal.org.in/files/Traditional%20insect%20bioprospecting.pdf

    56. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by geekoid · · Score: 1

      2 billion peoplea re alive becasue og genetic engineering of food.

      SO, are YOU willing to starve to death in order to stop using genetically enginnered food?

      I didn't think so.

      "and I mean possible world ending bad. .."

      No, it's not. Stop being stupid.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    57. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm against 99% of genetically modified food for ethical reasons. I have very little problem with actually eating it (although I do think some of the nanoshit they do is greatly undertested), but take a look at the companies driving genetically modified foods (Monsanto), all the patent and legal issues, etc. It's pretty much pure evil, and will destroy the future of humanity. Not to be too dramatic or anything.

    58. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by bingoUV · · Score: 1

      because one of the most common uses of GM is to allow vastly stronger herbicides / pesticides

      Many times it is the reverse. In fact, in India, the reverse kind is much more popular. That is to say, the GM advertisement says that expensive seed is more than offset by lower pesticide expense. And surprisingly, this part of the advertisement is true too.

      So in India, for many crops, there is a choice between GM and poisoning water supply by indiscriminate use of (subsidized) pesticide.

      Source and some other concerns http://www.biotech-info.net/bt_cotton_economics.html

      --
      Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
    59. Re:"Bio-engineered 'cultured' meat" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the other hand, if you price it at the low end of the market, it will be perceived as being at the low end of the market.

      If you price it at the higher end of the market, while it won't automatically be perceived as high-end, it won't automatically be perceived as low-end either.

  3. Old news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Nice to see that Mironov is still getting some attention, but this story is at least five years old. I wrote a feature story about lab-grown meat almost six years ago for the Village Voice, which goes into much more detail than the Reuters piece: http://www.villagevoice.com/2005-07-26/art/brave-new-hamburger/

    1. Re:Old news by pspahn · · Score: 1

      OT: but I wonder how much time gets wasted every day by people who don't link their... uh... links. I mean, I know it only takes a few clicks to copy+paste+go in the address bar of a new tab, but a few seconds extra times however many people do that every day... it's gotta be something. Not trying to rude or anything, just genuinely curious.

      Oh, and http://www.villagevoice.com/2005-07-26/art/brave-new-hamburger/

      --
      Someone flopped a steamer in the gene pool.
    2. Re:Old news by PrimordialSoup · · Score: 0

      not so anonymous now, are you ? Geeta Dayal! *gasp* a women on slashdot !!!

    3. Re:Old news by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      Highlight, context-click, "goto address" from context menu is the preferred action now. But I agree that it's better to just link stuff.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    4. Re:Old news by realityimpaired · · Score: 3, Informative

      Slashdot will automatically turn a URL into a link. The problem is that GGP posted as AC, and AC can't post links.

      Weighing the options, I'd rather it remain that way.

    5. Re:Old news by Faw · · Score: 1

      Five years ago? Lies! Veridian Dynamics is the pioneer in cow-less meat.

    6. Re:Old news by LMacG · · Score: 1

      Yep, I was disappointed that there was absolutely no mention of Phil and Lem in this story.

      --
      Slightly disreputable, albeit gregarious
  4. Genetically engineer plants to grow it as fruit.. by autonomouse · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...then we can call it "Bo-vine"

  5. Ethically Delicious by JudgeSlash · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It would be nice to say, one day, that the steak you are eating came from the last cow to die (be sequenced?) for human consumption. I for one welcome our cultured bovine over-done-lords.

    1. Re:Ethically Delicious by KiloByte · · Score: 0

      Sadly, this might happen quite soon, before this technology matures. Just look at terrorists from PETA being tax-exempt and receiving tax money instead of being banned.

      --
      The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
    2. Re:Ethically Delicious by JudgeSlash · · Score: 1

      I find it incredibly difficult to see how people concerned for the welfare of animals could possibly be against this technology. Besides this opens up other exciting culinary possibilities... like long pork! ;)

    3. Re:Ethically Delicious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Uh, sorry to burst your bubble of cows dancing free in the surf but I doubt people are going to keep cows for pets after we eliminate their need as a food source.

      All that will be left of cows is dairy herds...until we learn how to replace that too, and then I doubt there will be many cows at all except in zoos. Modern breeds will hardly thrive in the 'wild'.

      Also, what ethical problem is there is eating meat ?!?

    4. Re:Ethically Delicious by JudgeSlash · · Score: 1

      Also, what ethical problem is there is eating meat ?!?

      There's not a problem per se, more of an ethical gradient. Given the choice between meat that has been grown in a vat and meat that has been obtained by the death of an animal, I would choose the vat meat.

    5. Re:Ethically Delicious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'm perfectly OK with cows dying to be in my plate. And I don't think they live a bad life where I live, most of them are grass fed, in mild weather, they get a couple of good years before serving their purpose in life: to be barbecued with wood, like the FSM wanted it.

      After all, cows are domestic, so the only natural thing to happen to them, besides consumption, is extinction. Do you want cows to just disappear?

    6. Re:Ethically Delicious by sayfawa · · Score: 1

      Better that an animal never be born than spend a miserable, tortuous life trapped in a cage hardly bigger than itself, only to finally be slaughtered for food.

      --
      Free the Quark 3 from asymptotic confinement! Bring your charm! Don't get down! All colours and flavours welcome!
    7. Re:Ethically Delicious by Jarnin · · Score: 1

      Yes, yes, feeling good about yourself is nice! But frankly I'd be more interested in kosher/halal pork products. What do you suppose the Jewish/Muslim take on lab-grown pork products would be?

    8. Re:Ethically Delicious by delt0r · · Score: 1

      Modern breeds do quite well in the wild. At least in NZ.

      --
      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
    9. Re:Ethically Delicious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, what ethical problem is there is eating meat ?!?

      Depending on your ethical values, there could be a number on problems. I think the most common ones are 1) you need to kill the animal, 2) production animals often live miserable lives (not enough space, etc.) 3) ecological impact.

      Personally I don't have a strong opinion about number 1. I simply don't have enough knowledge about the mental capabilities of production animals to conclude that there is/isn't some fundamental difference between them and us that makes killing us wrong and killing them totally ok.

      2 and 3 are IMHO very good reasons to avoid factory farmed meat.

    10. Re:Ethically Delicious by vegiVamp · · Score: 1

      For me, personally, the ethics issue is not around the meat-eating itself, but rather involves the way that meat is produced - especially the way the animals get treated in the bioindustry. I'm a strong proponent of a return to smalltime farming and local produce as opposed to government-sponsored animal cruelty in the name of economics and more money for the rich.

      --
      What a depressingly stupid machine.
    11. Re:Ethically Delicious by Chowderbags · · Score: 1

      There will probably still be plenty of cows and steers around for those purists who want the good old fashioned "off the bone" taste. Heck, I really doubt that even if lab grown meat becomes common in homes and fast food joints that it would ever become mainstream even in places as low on the restaurant chain as Olive Garden or Applebees, let alone your Michelin Star level fine dining.

    12. Re:Ethically Delicious by orasio · · Score: 1

      Ok. and what if I told you that all the cow I eat spends it life grazing and watching the sun rise and set, in beautiful landscapes?
      After two or three years, they are sent in trucks to a slaughterhouse, but I hardly believe it's worse than no life at all, for a cow.

  6. Marketable to Vegetarians? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wonder what the general stance would be.

    1. Re:Marketable to Vegetarians? by sixthousand · · Score: 0

      Vegetarianism isn't a bool.

    2. Re:Marketable to Vegetarians? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Depends if they don't eat meat for humane reasons or because they don't like the taste.

    3. Re:Marketable to Vegetarians? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      Or for health reasons, or for sustainability reasons. If it's purely for ethical reasons, they'll probably welcome this. If it's for the taste, then this will be no use. For health reasons, it depends. Vat-grown meat may well be lower in fat, and if it's grown in a properly controlled environment should be completely free of diseases[1]. Sustainability is difficult to judge. It's hard to tell what the energy and environmental costs of mass-produced factory food will be, relative to other options. Finally, some people just aren't good ate metabolising meat. A significant fraction of the population stops producing the enzymes required to break down animal proteins after a few weeks of not eating meat. A (much) smaller fraction don't produce these enzymes at all.

      Most vegetarians are vegetarian for some combination of two or more of these factors, with different weighting. Exactly what the combination is depends on the individual.

      [1] There's a reason Judaism and Islam prohibit the eating of pig - the genetic similarity between pigs and humans makes it very easy for diseases to jump the species barrier, so the religions that prohibited eating pork had followers who were more likely to survive and breed.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    4. Re:Marketable to Vegetarians? by Kilrah_il · · Score: 1

      True

      --
      Whenever in an argument, remember this.
    5. Re:Marketable to Vegetarians? by Kilrah_il · · Score: 1

      But it would be nice to see the excuses they come up with to resolve the cognitive dissonance. I mean, will they be honest and say "there is no ethical problem with eating vat meat, but I personally don't like the taste," or will they find some stupid excuse why it is also not ethical to eat vat meat. Could be an interesting social experiment.

      --
      Whenever in an argument, remember this.
    6. Re:Marketable to Vegetarians? by c0lo · · Score: 1

      Vegetarianism isn't a bull.

      FTFY

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    7. Re:Marketable to Vegetarians? by th3rmite · · Score: 1

      I just love how all vegetarians get lumped together as some whack jobs who feel so bad for the wee little animals. Just yesterday a clerk at the Walmart made a remark to my wife about how "God intended for us to eat animals." Like he was judging her when it was him who asked about the lack of meat in the grocery cart. Who the hell knows what God wants? Obviously the 300 lb man who can't even stand up to swipe some groceries knows exactly what God wants us to eat.

      Personally I would never eat this lab grown meat. I'll continue to be fit and live a perfectly healthy life without any meat.

    8. Re:Marketable to Vegetarians? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'm vegan for primarily ethical and environmental reasons. If this avoids both, then I would have no problem with the idea of it, and I'm sure others like me would be the same.

      Having said that, I've been meat-free for so long now (17 years), that the very idea of eating it is rather repulsive to me, so I wouldn't touch the stuff. Not to mention I'd be wary of eating anything created in a lab.

  7. Treat the disease not the symptom... by sixthousand · · Score: 2

    Hunger and starvation isn't a production issue, its a distribution issue. If we're facing an inevitable meat scarcity resulting from land shortages perhaps the first solution to consider would be constructing fewer hamburger bioengineering laboratories.

    1. Re:Treat the disease not the symptom... by antifoidulus · · Score: 1

      No matter how you slice(ha!) it, creating meat consumes more food than it provides. Something like a ratio of 20:1 in the case of beef, not to mention all the greenhouse gases emitted by raising animals for slaughter.

    2. Re:Treat the disease not the symptom... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's worth it. Not that I don't support the idea of lab-grown meat, though.

    3. Re:Treat the disease not the symptom... by c0lo · · Score: 1

      Hunger and starvation isn't a production issue, its a distribution issue. If we're facing an inevitable meat scarcity resulting from land shortages...

      Somehow, land shortages in US doesn't ring true... 7.2% beef carcass exported in 2009... doesn't seem Mironov has a case with this argument... unless something changed from 2009...

      Hang on! the McDonalds stock price doubled in the last 5 years... maybe there IS actually a need for low-quality/very-low price mince... use enough fat, flavors and enhancers and, if it is supersized and at the same price, it doesn't matter anymore.

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    4. Re:Treat the disease not the symptom... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So? You say that as if it's something we should give a shit about. Please keep your religious beliefs to yourself. We already have a religion based on bogus history, bogus science, and behavior control. It's called Scientology.

      Happy "We're Sorry For Slavery" month, folks. Why is it that America is far from the only country to ever practice slavery (it still goes on today in parts of the world), yet we are the only country full of rich, effette, self-loathing, angst-ridden white liberals who think that by bootstrapping a black political agitator into the Presidency they have somehow purged themselves of their racism? I guarantee you these would be the first people to complain if too many black people started showing up at their yacht clubs and country clubs!

    5. Re:Treat the disease not the symptom... by Jarnin · · Score: 1

      Starvation is a production issue! When people can't produce enough food to feed themselves they are forced to import it from those who produce more than they use.

    6. Re:Treat the disease not the symptom... by sixthousand · · Score: 1

      There is more than enough food in the world to feed every human being on earth and then some. Production of food is at a surplus. Your point might ring true if the business of agriculture had any interest in feeding people, but the only sustenance of importance is financial. They will produce as much food as is most economically beneficial to them, despite who or how many people actually eat it. The supermarkets aren't stocked with the philanthropy of the worlds green thumbs.

    7. Re:Treat the disease not the symptom... by dkleinsc · · Score: 3, Informative

      I'm going to slice it differently. And I'm even a mostly-vegetarian.

      The reason that humans have been domesticating animals for food for millenia has a lot to do with animals being able to take advantage of food sources that humans couldn't or wouldn't eat. For instance, pigs were raised in large part on table scraps. Cattle, sheep, and goats were raised on grasses, typically in places where growing plants wasn't viable. Chickens and ducks were expected to forage quite a bit. All this made perfect sense, and can increase overall food supply.

      What doesn't make sense (in terms of increasing the food supply) is using perfectly good arable land to grow feed corn that humans really don't want to eat, then turn around and feed that corn to animals who aren't built to eat corn, and then pump those animals full of drugs to ensure that they don't get sick eating the corn that they aren't really supposed to be eating. From a purely engineering standpoint, feedlot beef is probably the least efficient food on the planet, and the only reason that it's economically viable at all is because of artificially low prices for feed corn created by a combination of US government policy and massive overproduction.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    8. Re:Treat the disease not the symptom... by ebuck · · Score: 1

      No matter how you slice(ha!) it, creating meat consumes more food than it provides. Something like a ratio of 20:1 in the case of beef, not to mention all the greenhouse gases emitted by raising animals for slaughter.

      True, but I can't eat twenty times the grass and obtain the same nutrition. Come to think of it, i also can't eat 400 times the soil and survive.

      To compare items numerically, they should be qualitatively similar.

    9. Re:Treat the disease not the symptom... by geekoid · · Score: 1

      right now, true. When we have 10 billion people?

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  8. Won't someone think of the Vegitarians!? by Rinnon · · Score: 3, Funny

    What are Vegetarians going to do when this comes out? It'll throw the WHOLE damn system out of whack! "Sorry, is that a Vegetarian Friendly Steak? Great! Medium-Rare."

    1. Re:Won't someone think of the Vegitarians!? by Chrisq · · Score: 1

      What are Vegetarians going to do when this comes out? It'll throw the WHOLE damn system out of whack! "Sorry, is that a Vegetarian Friendly Steak? Great! Medium-Rare."

      I can see people going both ways. Ethical vegetarians would probably decide based on whether there was an ongoing need for real animals, the testing needed, etc. Environmental vegetarians would look at the impact compared to crop growing and make a rational decision. Those who just don't like meat (my mum is in this category) won't bother trying it.

    2. Re:Won't someone think of the Vegitarians!? by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      That question tells me more about you than about vegetarians.

    3. Re:Won't someone think of the Vegitarians!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What are Vegetarians going to do when this comes out?

      Why should we do anything at all?

      Look, there's at least four kinds of vegetarians: those who don't eat meat for ethical reasons, those who don't eat meat because they feel that the energy investment isn't justified in light of the sheer number of people living (and starving) on the planet, those that don't eat meat for health reasons (real or imagined), and, last not least, those that don't eat meat because they don't like the taste.

      The first kind will arguably be happy with this. Lab-grown meat means no suffering and no killing, so yay, everything's great.

      The second kind will probably take a long hard look at the energy investment needed to grow this stuff, but I imagine that when they do, they'll find that it's OK - after all, all the energy is used on actually growing usable meat here, rather than supporting the whole animal that comes with it otherwise, for years. So again, no problem in principle.

      The third kind may or may not eat this stuff. Those that think that meat is unhealthy in principle will continue to do so; those that are worried about, say, salmonella may or may not continue to worry; and those that have actual conditions that keep them from eating meat, well, they're still going to have those conditions (although maybe it would also be possible to lab-grow meat that doesn't trigger them, kinda like you have lactose-free milk etc. now). Either way, they, too, wouldn't have a problem with it in principle,.

      The fourth kind wouldn't eat it, but obviously wouldn't have a problem with it.

      So there you have it. Of course not everyone's gonna be happy about it immediately - there's cognitive bias, and people tend to cling to beliefs they have even in the face of new developments. But give it some time, and everything will be fine.

      And in the meantime, please don't paint vegetarians with such a broad brush, eh?

    4. Re:Won't someone think of the Vegitarians!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As soon as this tech nears the market expect a massive astro-turfed movement to appear, secretly funded by the existing meat industries, screaming that vat-meat is full of "chemicals" and "hormones" and cancer and the ground-up toes of orphaned african babies and should be avoided at all costs, lest we all be transmogrified into huge pulsating cubes of wheezing synthetic tumour, moulded to our armchairs.

      Obviously this campaign will be aimed at existing carnivores (particularly the organic / ethical food types), but the veggies will pick it up and run with it and make it their own. Result: Very few vegetarians will add vat-meat to their diets.

    5. Re:Won't someone think of the Vegitarians!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ethical vegetarians ... indeed.
      Industrial production of non-animal meat and other animal products would probably mean near-extinction of remaining flocks and herds. Once they are economically unworthy, and being unable to survive in natural environment without humans, doom is up for most domesticated species. The owners will slaughter remaining animals and sell them bellow price of "factory meat" to recover part of their expenses.

    6. Re:Won't someone think of the Vegitarians!? by Chrisq · · Score: 1

      Ethical vegetarians ... indeed. Industrial production of non-animal meat and other animal products would probably mean near-extinction of remaining flocks and herds. Once they are economically unworthy, and being unable to survive in natural environment without humans, doom is up for most domesticated species. The owners will slaughter remaining animals and sell them bellow price of "factory meat" to recover part of their expenses.

      As opposed to doing this in a repeating cycle over and over again.

    7. Re:Won't someone think of the Vegitarians!? by Kilrah_il · · Score: 1

      Environmental vegetarians would look at the impact compared to crop growing and make a rational decision.

      I hope they make a rational decision. God knows many times these organisations choose an ideological path, and don't let logic and evidence stand in their way.

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    8. Re:Won't someone think of the Vegitarians!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      PETA is a big promoter of growing animal-free meat.

    9. Re:Won't someone think of the Vegitarians!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I doubt much would change. People who've been vegetarians a long time won't suddenly start eating meat. It may not be a moral/ethics issue, just plain habit.

      During the latest "dioxin in feedstuffs" scandal I decided to go vegetarian for some time to try it; mostly for shits and giggles. After two or three weeks I didn't really care about meat anymore. Imagine someone not eating meat for years. Humans are creatures of habit, once you have gotten used to something it's easier to stick with it than to change.

    10. Re:Won't someone think of the Vegitarians!? by minorproblem · · Score: 1

      Or those who are vegetarian for health reasons..

    11. Re:Won't someone think of the Vegitarians!? by xzoon · · Score: 1

      As a vegetarian since my teenage years, I have no problems with this.
      But I won't eat it to a great extent. Since I became a vegetarian I've learned to enjoy non-fabricated food. Food made from raw ingredients taste so much better than fabricated food, and most of my vegetarian friends are of the same opinion. (my meat eating friends are also of this opinion, but they still buy a lot more fabricated food than my vegetarian friends)
      This would fall in the same category as, and could be used as a replacement for, Quorn. Which I do use a couple of times a month for easy proteins.

      The happiest people will probably be vegetarians meat eating parents, who no longer needs to make a special meal just for us when they're having dinner parties :)

    12. Re:Won't someone think of the Vegitarians!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL, "ethical " vegetarians. Show me an ethical lion that wouldn't eat me if he was so inclined. Geez, humans are becoming such pussies - especially well-to-do westerners. No doubt humans will be extinct within a thousand years - or at least the portion of humanity that considers itself "civilized."

    13. Re:Won't someone think of the Vegitarians!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your comment tells me more about you than the comment you commented on. Mostly it tells me that you are a douche.

    14. Re:Won't someone think of the Vegitarians!? by th3rmite · · Score: 1

      I know a cave man looking guy who is about the farthest thing away from being a "pussy" who seems to think that only humans are bastards enough to deserve being killed.

    15. Re:Won't someone think of the Vegitarians!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Another group could ask: Would you eat human flavoured meat?

      Soylent green coming soon to a meat farm close to you.

    16. Re:Won't someone think of the Vegitarians!? by digit1001 · · Score: 1

      We'll start asking about the conditions the workers were in while growing it in the lab... "were they forced to sit in cubicles?"

    17. Re:Won't someone think of the Vegitarians!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are those vegetarians that don't eat meat simply because they don't like the taste. I am one of them. Incidentally, I also hate veggie burgers because they have a similar taste and texture to meat. I couldn't care less if you ate dolphin meat with a side order of monkey brains.

    18. Re:Won't someone think of the Vegitarians!? by ThatOtherGuy435 · · Score: 1

      Spicy black bean veggie burgers, however, are fucking awesome.

    19. Re:Won't someone think of the Vegitarians!? by Z1NG · · Score: 1

      Maybe I'm in the minority but after about 8 years, I would still love to have some bacon. Or beef jerky. I would say sausage, but the fake stuff is actually really good. Even if I didn't eat the meat product myself, I would be happy to see others eat it.

    20. Re:Won't someone think of the Vegitarians!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It all depends on why they are vegetarians. Some are for moral reason, some because they like how that diet makes them feel, and others because of health reasons.

    21. Re:Won't someone think of the Vegitarians!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Couldn't they just use human cells to grow the meat? Then the vegetarians wouldn't have to worry about any animals being harmed. Heck, humans could even voluntarily donate the cells to grow the steaks so what we'd know they were created humanely and by choice from the donors.

    22. Re:Won't someone think of the Vegitarians!? by demiurgency · · Score: 1

      People who've been vegetarians a long time won't suddenly start eating meat.

      Speak for yourself. The day this stuff comes out, I'm lining up for a bucket of faux KFC. Next, faux bacon. Third, I dunno, surprise me.

    23. Re:Won't someone think of the Vegitarians!? by monkyyy · · Score: 1

      i love fabricated food (when done right) :D

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    24. Re:Won't someone think of the Vegitarians!? by Alimony+Pakhdan · · Score: 1

      What are Vegetarians going to do when this comes out?

      Same as they do today. Complain and try to guilt others.

    25. Re:Won't someone think of the Vegitarians!? by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Well, the people who are vegetarians for diet reasons(the minority) will still be vegetarians. The people who are vegetarian to have a 'cause(the majority) will start saying vat meat(V-Meat) causes cancer, autism, vitamin deficiency and is the cause of the JFK assassination.

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    26. Re:Won't someone think of the Vegitarians!? by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1
      It would probably be the last "real" animal I'd eat. I'd be happy enough with that.

      I think I understand your other comment, as I've worked with a few Vegans who eventually became impossible to socialize with, because when they weren't grilling us meat eaters on our evil ways, they were making it difficult to ever eat out as they questioned every item and ingredient on the menu.That isn't being ethical, it's a neurosis based on extreme definitions of what you eat defining your "goodness".

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    27. Re:Won't someone think of the Vegitarians!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Much like members of the civil rights movement! They complained and tried to guilt others for what they believed in. Damn those inferior African Americans...

  9. "GM" and public acceptance by binarstu · · Score: 1

    I can imagine that some folks who are strongly opposed to "GM" crops and animals might actually be more accepting of this technology. For one thing, there wouldn't be the concern about modified organisms polluting natural populations with their engineered genes or escaping and propagating in the wild. Furthermore, I can see fewer potential ethical arguments against culturing meat-like food in a factory compared to engineering real, live animals and raising them on factory farms.

    1. Re:"GM" and public acceptance by BlackSabbath · · Score: 1

      Might there be "mono-culture" type problems arising? Presumably the source cell cultures for industrial scale production would come from a limited (maybe even a single?) genetic line. The kinds of bacteria that love meat as much as us would have a standing target to evolve against.

      Of course I have no real idea as I'm not a biologist. Anybody qualified to answer?

    2. Re:"GM" and public acceptance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You seem to be under the impression that public perceptions are governed by rational argument and evidence. Expect the following responses to vat-meat:

      - Many people will eat it without even knowing what they're eating - especially if the burger chains find worthwhile cost savings in vat meat. The response of McD's etc will probably be crucial to the success or failure of vat-meat.
      - A small number of people will eat it willingly, because it is cheaper / greener / kinder.

      - Many people will not eat it, for no reason other than they find it vaguely squicky / because it is "unnatural". (Yeah, like anything we do in the modern world is "natural")
      - Some people will not eat it because they want to support the traditional meat industry / don't want cows and piggies to go extinct.
      - Some people will not eat it because they try to buy local food for environmental reasons, and they fail to realise that the cow raised and slaughtered just down the road has a vastly higher carbon footprint than the artificial meat slab shipped in from the other side of the world.
      - Some people will not eat it because they they are the kind of obstinate, blinkered, contrarian traditionalist UKIP pricks who take sadistic delight in torturing / killing /butchering / eating animals simply because it pisses off the hippies. (I know quite a few people like this).
      - Some people will not eat it because it is costs less than regular meat, and they don't want to associate themselves with a "cheap" product.
      - Some people will not eat it because the pet food industry will make use of it, so they associate eating vat-meat with eating dogfood.
      - Many people will not eat it because they have been convinced that it is somehow unhealthy. They will imagine all kinds of chemicals in it that give you cancer / make you sterile / rape your dog / are harvested from the tears of third world AIDS orphans.
      - And of course every possible combination of the above.

      - In response to the above, expect all kinds of cleaner / healthier / artificially expensive / local / organic / carb-free / decaf / less dogfoody / now with pro-retinol-A variants of vat meat to appear in short order. All of them, of course, completely identical apart from the packaging and the price.

      So yeah... expect the reaction to vat meat to be varied, complex and almost universally unbearably fucking stupid.

      FWIW, I'm not by any means a veggie, but I do eat a lot of vegetarian food. I would happily eat vat-meat that had been OKed by my country's food standards authorities.

    3. Re:"GM" and public acceptance by hedwards · · Score: 1

      It's not an issue. They already have to take precautions about that with normal meat, this sort of lab grown meat isn't any different. On the upside because you're doing it in a lab or equivalent it's a lot easier to know and verify what strains are present and in what quantities.

    4. Re:"GM" and public acceptance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sadly, you're probably correct. Most of the population can be illogical imbeciles that cling to their pathetic ideals even when they make absolutely no sense.

  10. Say it with me people... by definate · · Score: 1

    Say it with me people, the "food crisis" is a political (and to a lesser extent, economical) problem, not a scientific problem.

    You can throw a fuck load of science behind it, and it's unlikely to help as many as you think it will.

    However, I do like this research, and would love to eat that kind of meat. Finally we could rid ourselves of the scourge that is... the cow.

    Or to put it another way... the cow belongs in a museum!

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    1. Re:Say it with me people... by jamesh · · Score: 1

      But whether the environmental crisis is a political or economical one, the solution is going to be scientific. People are just not going to stop eating meat and the way we currently grow it is a huge waste of... well everything.

      If we environmentally taxed everything properly (eg tax = the cost of fixing the damage done in making the product) then while people in the supermarket might be thinking "vat meat... ew!", they also be thinking "hmmm... steak from cow, $49.99/kg... vat meat, $9.99/kg... I guess i've eaten worse".

    2. Re:Say it with me people... by definate · · Score: 1

      Sure. But you're producing a solution for the extreme future, without resolving a solution for the current problem.

      Also, if we can't solve the political / economical problem, then we sure as hell can't solve the future problem of extreme scarcity.

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    3. Re:Say it with me people... by Kilrah_il · · Score: 1

      Say it with me people, the "food crisis" is a political (and to a lesser extent, economical) problem, not a scientific problem.

      "The 'food crisis' is a political..." Sorry, you should come up with better tag-line. Not catchy enough.

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    4. Re:Say it with me people... by definate · · Score: 1

      Hrmmm, you've got a point, but I also want to be specific.

      How's about...

      Say it with me people, the food crisis is often a geopolitical problem, which can be solved via a change in trade restrictions, a change in subsidies, or a change in general business regulation. Sometimes it can be tied to a lack of security in other areas. After this, which accounts for most of the shortage, we then of course have economic problems, where in certain regions, various types of food are too expensive, due to either resource constraints, or efficiency constraints. Both of which can, in certain circumstances, be solved with technological solutions. However, this tends to be more associated with only a few types/categories/etc of food in any one region.

      There. Fixed. I think that just rolls off the tongue.

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    5. Re:Say it with me people... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, I don't want to say things with you.

    6. Re:Say it with me people... by geekoid · · Score: 1

      SO you want to make the cow extinct? what a jackass.

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    7. Re:Say it with me people... by definate · · Score: 1

      Sorry. I just have a seething hatred of bovines.

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  11. Fast food by zrbyte · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'd definitely eat it :) I think an end product wouldn't differ much (from a taste and texture point of view) from a McDonald's chicken nugget with how highly processed that stuff is. One question though. In order to get the texture right (not a chicken nugget, but a side of steak) wouldn't you need to somehow exercise the muscle tissue? Subject it to some kind of mechanical stress? This would seem to be an important part of the development of the tissue, with the cows moving about for a large part of their life (or just standing if in a factory farm). And about the "yuck factor". Try killing, gutting and skinning your own meat :) I used to watch my grandfather skin and gut a rabbit, the smell alone was hardly tolerable.

    1. Re:Fast food by Magada · · Score: 2

      Rabbits, goats and sheep do stink up to high heaven. Other things are much more tolerable.
      Exercise is needed, indeed, for texture. So far it's been done as a combination of electroshock and (mild) mechanical stress.

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    2. Re:Fast food by jamesh · · Score: 1

      There's a genetic anomaly present in some people/animals that causes muscle mass to bulk up with little to no exercise. IIRC it was some myostatin 'flaw'. I'm sure they're hard at work to try and muck around with the genetics to literally just grow it in a vat. No exercise, no electroshock, nothing.

      Myself, I can't wait :)

    3. Re:Fast food by KiloByte · · Score: 1

      I had some farmers and gardeners in the family. Have you seen the shit and fertilizer that goes into vegetables? Now compare that to clean meat...

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    4. Re:Fast food by Magada · · Score: 1

      I'm sure it is being researched, for efficiency reasons. However, muscle mass and muscle "definition" (read:texture) aren't one and the same, as any bodybuilder will be happy to explain to you in excruciating detail.

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    5. Re:Fast food by Kilrah_il · · Score: 1

      I believe you refer to Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy, a genetic disease cause by a mutation in the gene for one of the structural proteins in the muscle. They kids having this disease do have bulky-looking muscles, but it is not really muscle tissue but actually fatty tissue and the phenomenon is called pseudohypertrophy (hypertrophy is when a tissue gains mass; pseudo- - you get the gist of it).

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    6. Re:Fast food by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now compare that to clean meat...

      You mean the "clean" meat that actually creates said shit and loves to wallow in it? Have you seen all those disgusting meat-products they have on display in supermarkets? Feet, tongues, hearts, unidentifiable bits and pieces pickled in disgusting crap, etc. I like to eat meat but some of that stuff really ruins appetite for me :D

    7. Re:Fast food by delt0r · · Score: 1

      Try killing, gutting and skinning your own meat..

      Done it, and do it. It really doesn't bother me at all. But then that was in NZ where the cows roam free and all that.

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    8. Re:Fast food by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why synthesize non-exercised meat? Exercise is not about simply moving the tissue around but getting the chemicals where they need to be in the right concentrations (growing cellular tissue). It's not like as if a lump of pork meat will become more exercised if you throw it in the washer.

    9. Re:Fast food by Ambiguous+Coward · · Score: 1

      ...pork meat will become more exercised if you throw it in the washer.

      You should still always do this, though. Also run it through the drier with some fabric softener to really get the most out of it.

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    10. Re:Fast food by jamesh · · Score: 1

      No that's the appearance of muscle growth, not actual muscle growth, and doesn't sound anything like what I was describing. Try Double Muscle Mutation which is a growth of muscle due to a change to the production of myostatin which would otherwise inhibit muscle growth.

    11. Re:Fast food by Kilrah_il · · Score: 1

      Thanks, didn't know that.

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  12. Re: Genetically engineer plants to grow it as frui by pspahn · · Score: 1

    Or even Oh-Vine!!! I'd buy that from a vending machine!

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  13. Re: Genetically engineer plants to grow it as frui by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

    Banana meat.

  14. In Soviet Russia... by martin-boundary · · Score: 1
    In Soviet Russia, Scientists Grow Meat In Lab.

    In Bubble America, Lab Meat Decays For Science.

    1. Re:In Soviet Russia... by Xserv · · Score: 1

      Good try... I'm rather partial to: "In Soviet Russia, the meat grows you."

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    2. Re:In Soviet Russia... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      -1 Loss of Appetite

  15. Reasons to vote against by maroberts · · Score: 1

    I find it incredibly difficult to see how people concerned for the welfare of animals could possibly be against this technology. Besides this opens up other exciting culinary possibilities... like long pork! ;)

    If there is no reason for human cultivation of said animals, there will be no need to keep a population of any size and the same animals will join the panda on the endangered list....

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    1. Re:Reasons to vote against by JudgeSlash · · Score: 1

      If there is no reason for human cultivation of said animals, there will be no need to keep a population of any size and the same animals will join the panda on the endangered list....

      I would hazard a guess that most animals on the endangered list aren't there because of human over-consumption but rather habitat destruction due to increased human population. So I imagine that whilst this tech allows us to continue feeding ourselves with presumably less resources, this will confound the habitat destruction due to human overpopulation. Oh well... there's always soylent green.

    2. Re:Reasons to vote against by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We engineered those meat-species into existence, I don't think it would be a terrible thing if we allowed them to slide toward the brink of extinction. But that won't happen anyway.

      Vat meat will never 100% replace hoof-meat. Of course governments might try to legislate against hoof-meat, but since when did banning anything ever stop it completely?

      There will always be a segment of the market who perceives hoof-meat as somehow superior (even if it can be proved that it isn't - see monster cables for proof of this) and will cheerfully pay a premium for it. In fact this perception will be enhanced if hoof-meat is more expensive than vat-meat. People prepared to pay extra for hoof rather than vat will happily pay extra again for organic/ethical hoof over factory-farmed hoof. So those farm animals that do remain can expect a better quality of life than the vast majority of farm animals living today.

      And that's fine. If we could free up 95% of the resources currently devoted to cattle-raising and put it to other uses, while still keeping a small number of traditional farms alive (and ensuring that all, or nearly all, of those use ethical farming practices), well that sounds like a win-win to me.

      All this makes me think of Elite 2: Frontier, where the cargo you could buy included vat meat and (more expensive) real meat, and the real stuff was illegal in some systems.

    3. Re:Reasons to vote against by maroberts · · Score: 2

      I would hazard a guess that most animals on the endangered list aren't there because of human over-consumption but rather habitat destruction due to increased human population. So I imagine that whilst this tech allows us to continue feeding ourselves with presumably less resources, this will confound the habitat destruction due to human overpopulation. Oh well... there's always soylent green.

      Habitat destruction and human consumption go hand in hand - tigers and gorillas are hunted equally for skins and meat, as well as their habitat getting smaller. As for this technology feeding ourselves with less resources, all this appears to do is allow the human population to increase with the extra food supply - witness the increase from 4bill to over 6bill in about 40 years, with the improvements in agriculture.

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  16. PETA has already given it its blessing by brokeninside · · Score: 1

    In fact, they're offering a cool million bucks for the first company to bring it to market.

    It seems to me that only those who abstain from meat for a particular type of religious and health reasons concerning the nature of animal flesh would have any desire to avoid meat grown in a lab. That's probably a very small subset of vegetarians.

    1. Re:PETA has already given it its blessing by monkyyy · · Score: 1

      hmmm how do the vegans feel about this?

      also anyone willing to go simi-vegetarian when this stuff works?
      and not a big fan of meat since i watched food inc. not morally but WHERE ITS BEEN

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  17. Ethical Dilemma,A scifi story by tanveer1979 · · Score: 1

    I forgot the authors name, probably it was an Asimov story? I am not sure.
    This story is set in the far future, where killing of animals has stopped, and you can have lab grown meat in every flavor (cow, lamb, chicken etc.,). One company with best flavors dominates the market, with many exotic animal flavor meat on sale.

    However, a new company comes in with a meat that tastes the best, and the old leader starts losing sales.
    The owner decides to do some research, and then files a suit in the parliament.

    The members of parliament want to shrug off the suit, but give him a hearing.
    He starts explaining with images of animals being killed that how their ancestors used to kill animals.
    Many MPs faint and squirm.

    Then he goes farther back to history when he shows slides of cannibalism. the entire parliament erupts, with MPs vomiting and fainting at the very thought. They want to throw him out.

    At the end of the story he reveals what he has found. the new company is producing meat which tastes like human flesh. Thats why its the tastiest meat.
    Anybody remember the story name or Author?

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    1. Re:Ethical Dilemma,A scifi story by Canazza · · Score: 3, Informative

      Arthur C Clarke, The Food of the Gods

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    2. Re:Ethical Dilemma,A scifi story by Kilrah_il · · Score: 1

      Thanks, but now I can't read it. Spoiler :)

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    3. Re:Ethical Dilemma,A scifi story by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      But.. what's the dilemma?

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    4. Re:Ethical Dilemma,A scifi story by Canazza · · Score: 1

      http://www.amazon.com/Collected-Stories-Arthur-C-Clarke/dp/0312878605 - get yourself this. It's got that story in it and practically all of Clarkes short stories and short novellas. Food of the Gods is about 3 pages long to be honest, although there's one in there thats about 3 paragraphs.

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    5. Re:Ethical Dilemma,A scifi story by Kilrah_il · · Score: 1

      Now that you mention it, I think I have this book. Probably forgot this story. And I do remember him bragging about the shortest story he wrote.

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    6. Re:Ethical Dilemma,A scifi story by mangu · · Score: 1

      At the end of the story he reveals what he has found. the new company is producing meat which tastes like human flesh. Thats why its the tastiest meat.

      If you clone it, any meat can be created from a single cell, so there should be no problem in growing human flesh when this technique is perfected, so what's the problem?

      Don't tell me you've never bitten a cuticle or something like that.

    7. Re:Ethical Dilemma,A scifi story by spitzak · · Score: 1

      There was an Arthur C Clarke short story like that. It was done quicker, basically the board of directors meets and some presenter has to spend a good deal of time explaining the word "carnivores" because most everybody forgot that their favorite foods are actually simulations of dead animals.

      Then he says their scientists have finally figured out what animal the competitor's very successful product is. And they say "well we explained the word 'carnivore', but now we have to explain a new word: 'cannibal'"

      The end.

    8. Re:Ethical Dilemma,A scifi story by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Should you east meat that taste like human...yeah, not much of a dilemma.

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  18. Electric Meat by jamesh · · Score: 1

    They can save a heap on advertising with existing Kenny Everett footage

  19. shrinking amounts of land available by dilvish_the_damned · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Interesting, however it still smells of a solution looking for a problem. Though the reflex might be to believe that there is no land to grow beef ( or any other meat ), due to factors such as urban sprawl, we have yet to conquer major portions of this earth with city as yet. There is still plenty of land from which to graze. It should not be a surprise, in this day and age of "everything is a potential catastrophe and you should really watch this documentary" has anyone yet mentioned that we might run out of grazing land? Have you seen the desolation which is Idaho which is mostly grazing land?

    To get back to the point; We have decommissioned much of the land due to economic factors and increases in efficiency ( really the same ). I believe this kind of solution may be profitable at some point, we are at least 50 years from it, and related technology will have morphed a bit by then - so its really just speculative.

    The business side of me suspects they may find it easier to say something like "zero emission pork". Funding will start to flow their way. If they can get to the point where they can claim this, the market will be ready made to the point of charging 3 - 4 times as much as organic meat. People are silly that way. At least those that are middle-middle class to upper-middle class will pay for it. The rest wont care and will buy the 'classic' type.

    Wait, I am just brainstorming here... Do you think they can knock off Kobe beef? There might be an angle to this.

    --
    I think you underestimate just how much I just dont care.
    1. Re:shrinking amounts of land available by mangu · · Score: 1

      Have you seen the desolation which is Idaho which is mostly grazing land?

      You don't believe in letting land free of human influence? Does the word "nature" mean anything to you?

      If they could let Idaho alone that would be justification enough to grow meat in factories.

    2. Re:shrinking amounts of land available by delt0r · · Score: 1

      Meat is grown in "factories". Thats what everyone is complaining about.

      --
      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
    3. Re:shrinking amounts of land available by Jarnin · · Score: 2

      Interesting, however it still smells of a solution looking for a problem. Though the reflex might be to believe that there is no land to grow beef ( or any other meat ), due to factors such as urban sprawl, we have yet to conquer major portions of this earth with city as yet. There is still plenty of land from which to graze. It should not be a surprise, in this day and age of "everything is a potential catastrophe and you should really watch this documentary" has anyone yet mentioned that we might run out of grazing land? Have you seen the desolation which is Idaho which is mostly grazing land?

      OK, now try looking to other countries, for example, Brazil. Upwards of 70% of the deforestation in Brazil is to make room for grazing lands, and we're talking about hundreds of thousands of square kilometers in the last 40 years. Seems like if someone can come up with lab grown meat, they might be able to ease up on their torching the rain forest.

    4. Re:shrinking amounts of land available by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We don't have enough land to make enough meat for the entire world if the entire world consumes meat like North Americans do. ( http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2008-11-14-3913750537_x.htm ) The average NA consumer consumes something about 185 lbs a year of meat. And this number keep going up. Imagine now if the whole world ate like NA. Thats 111 BILLION lbs of meat a year. Or 38.1 billion lbs of beef. From this link: http://www.kansasbeef.org/PDF/Break%20Down%20Brochure.pdf we get 568lbs of meat on average from each steer. This means 670,774,648 cows are needed just for meat each year. According to http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_pasture_does_one_cow_need we need 2.5 acres per cow for grazing. This means we need 1,676,936,620 acres of land for all these cows to graze on. Earth has http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_acres_of_land_does_Earth_have 36,794,240,000 acres. So just for all this beef, we'd need 1/22nd of the available land surface of the earth. Just for cattle. Theres secondary concerns like being able to FEED all of those cows, handling their wastes, transportation of meat, etc.

      This is why we need this lab-grown meat. It can satisfy our meat demands with significantly less space usage, at less cost.

    5. Re:shrinking amounts of land available by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ever considered that an animal has to die for you to eat meat? And that it probably had a very miserable live before it was killed?
      Growing meat is a solution to animal suffering.

      J.

    6. Re:shrinking amounts of land available by locallyunscene · · Score: 1

      Interesting, however it still smells of a solution looking for a problem.

      I don't put much stock in the phrase anymore because it's another way of saying "we shouldn't do research for research's sake". Whether or not you think this is a problem that needs solving, some of the best innovations have come about from "solutions that don't have problems yet" like lasers. Once you have the option of using a technology the practical applications will follow as long as the idea itself is practical. Off the top of my head; meat generation for cruise and Navy ships which are at sea for long periods of time is useful. Basically any time stopping for supplies is costly like a manned space missions would this technology become a solution.
      And as you said, if they can make it a desirable consumer product either through lower prices or higher quality or both then more efficient and safer prodtion of meat is an excellent bonus.

      Also there are some places where overgrazing is already a problem, along the Sahara for example. However, I doubt the infrastructure required for this process would be available in those types of places anyway.

    7. Re:shrinking amounts of land available by BJ_Covert_Action · · Score: 1

      Does the word "nature" mean anything to you?

      We're part of nature, as are all of our bad habits. All species consume to reproduce and progress. That's what they do. That's what we do. Humans aren't alone in this. It's just that humans have gotten so good at it that we pretty much out compete everything we have come into contact with so far. There is nothing wrong, or unnatural, about utilizing our planet to the fullest extent to further our species. The only trick is to make sure that we have other resources available before we use up the ones that we presently rely upon.

    8. Re:shrinking amounts of land available by ebuck · · Score: 1

      Wait, I am just brainstorming here... Do you think they can knock off Kobe beef? There might be an angle to this.

      Considering their abstract discussing the proper balance of beer and massage for the research staff, Kobe beef must be on their mind.

    9. Re:shrinking amounts of land available by randyleepublic · · Score: 0

      I like the idea because I would prefer not to murder sentient beings to stuff my maw.  Not so much that I can stand to go without fleshy satisfaction, but, if there was a real alternative, I'd be all over it.

      --
      Social Credit would solve everything...
    10. Re:shrinking amounts of land available by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Low environmental impact, no-cruelty (perfect for ethical vegetarians), no steroids or disease. I'd easily pay extra for a steak like that if it tasted close to the real thing, and I think there are plenty of other people who would too. Not to mention once a company gets up and running with the technology, it will most likely be -cheaper- than real meat... how in the world would this be impractical for at least 50 years? I think what you mean is that in 50 years, this will be the only viable alternative.

  20. Ethically unpalatable by KiloByte · · Score: 2

    I'm not concerned about welfare of animals, I am concerned about taste and my health. Plus, I am concerned about my tax money going to scum who break into research labs and assault scientists, making it less likely we'll see cures to many diseases, aging and the like in my lifetime. If you have some weird semi-religious views, follow them yourself, but if I am to suffer because of you, I object.

    --
    The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
    1. Re:Ethically unpalatable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I'm not concerned about welfare of animals,"

      That says it all. Sorry, but someone with that attitude is utter scum in my books. Why not base your ethical views on scientific principles like sentience and capacity for suffering instead of some quasi-religious species superiority?

      You can't say animal can be abused *just because they are of a different species*. There has to be some attributes of the species membership that makes this so (like inability to suffer).

    2. Re:Ethically unpalatable by JudgeSlash · · Score: 1

      If you're concerned about taste and health then which version of meat do you think would be more likely to be controlled for flavour and health giving properties: the uncontrolled environment of an animal wandering about in a field or the controlled environment of a vat?

      I don't see how this has anything to do with PETA actually.

      Also I am certainly not religious, and even take offence at the thought, but yet again I fail to see how that has anything to do with your ability to choose where your cut of animal flesh originates from.

    3. Re:Ethically unpalatable by KiloByte · · Score: 0

      So that superior morality of yours would rather have a sentient species suffer diseases just to avoid hurting something non-sentient? Then why do you hurt poor vegetables who can't defend themselves. Sorry to break it to you, but nature is a constant war, and so is life; you kill many beings with every breath you take. What about aiding a number of worm and bacteria species and letting them eat your corpse?

      --
      The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
    4. Re:Ethically unpalatable by KiloByte · · Score: 1

      Since when the words "health" and "food additives" belong in the same sentence?

      I for one refuse to eat heavily processed food. If you prefer to eat meat-like products at McDonald, it's a matter of your tastes, but I insist on being allowed to opt out of that. For example, I never buy "mincemeat" that usually includes mechanically separated substances very distantly related to actual flesh, and always grind it myself.

      --
      The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
    5. Re:Ethically unpalatable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since when the words "health" and "food additives" belong in the same sentence?

      Since they started putting Vitamin D in your milk for you?

    6. Re:Ethically unpalatable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So that superior morality of yours would rather have a sentient species suffer diseases just to avoid hurting something non-sentient?

      The problem I have stems from the fact that people state that humans are more important than every other species because of some artificial reason such as 'sentience'.

      I'm sorry, but the importance of a being is completely and utterly subjective. It is not a fact. The universe likely doesn't value humans over anything else. Humans do, however, but that's to be expected among such an arrogant species.

      Then why do you hurt poor vegetables who can't defend themselves.

      1) Vegetables do not feel pain like animals do. We can visibly see the suffering of an animal and we absolutely know that they are suffering. Between the two, I'd take the one that suffers less.
      2) Tu quoque.

      If you want to believe that humans are more important, no one can stop you. I will, however, correct someone who states their subjective opinion as a fact (or seemingly does). Or perhaps I misunderstood you.

      As for your comment about not caring about animal suffering: I'd at least think that a normal human would care enough to reduce the suffering of other living beings if at all possible. I just imagine myself in their place. But, whatever.

    7. Re:Ethically unpalatable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem I have stems from the fact that people state that humans are more important than every other species because of some artificial reason such as 'sentience'.

      I'm sorry, but the importance of a being is completely and utterly subjective. It is not a fact. The universe likely doesn't value humans over anything else. Humans do, however, but that's to be expected among such an arrogant species.

      The human species is more important to me as a human for a number of reasons:
      1) more opportunities for myself or any offspring I may have to reproduce
      2) greater support for myself/descendants due to support for humans in general
      3) my continued survival will end with the end of the human race(as a member)
      etc.

      Human are more important to humans in general than other animals. I am sure lions value lions higher than humans, and they are free to do that. I am not a lion, I am a human so that makes the well-being of humans more important for myself and my progeny.

      This is not arrogance, this is a consequence of evolution and genetics. If you like you can call it anthropocentric, but it is built into who and what we are and it helps us make value judgments to support the continuation of our genes. If you want to value other species more highly, that is your choice, but that gives my genes a competitive advantage over yours. I must admit that I am quite happy to have my competitors handicap themselves, so thanks for your sacrifice. Just don't try to enforce your views on me and mine.

      Then why do you hurt poor vegetables who can't defend themselves.

      1) Vegetables do not feel pain like animals do. We can visibly see the suffering of an animal and we absolutely know that they are suffering. Between the two, I'd take the one that suffers less.

      Many people can only detect suffering of those like themselves(culturally/ethnically/biologically).
      How can you be certain that a plant does not suffer when it is damaged or killed?
      Sure it does not have a central nervous system, but that does not preclude suffering. Just because we do not know how they suffer does not mean it does not happen, only that we do not know about it. You claim to be able to see everything, but you have a blind spot only marginally smaller than those you are comparing yourself to.

      2) Tu quoque.

      If you want to believe that humans are more important, no one can stop you. I will, however, correct someone who states their subjective opinion as a fact (or seemingly does). Or perhaps I misunderstood you.

      As for your comment about not caring about animal suffering: I'd at least think that a normal human would care enough to reduce the suffering of other living beings if at all possible. I just imagine myself in their place. But, whatever.

      If you like, you can silently append 'to humans' or 'for humans' to every statement you hear if it makes you feel better, but the rest of us will just leave it unspoken until our culture encounters another culture that is easily able to communicate with us and the distinction becomes more relevant.

    8. Re:Ethically unpalatable by trickyD1ck · · Score: 1

      Animals (and nature in general) are only as valuable as they are useful to humans. For most, animals are useful as source of food, for many as pets, and for some (such as you) as a reason to feel morally superior to other people.

    9. Re:Ethically unpalatable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The human species is more important to me as a human for a number of reasons:

      Yes. It's more important to you. That is only your opinion, however.

      This is not arrogance

      When I spoke of arrogance, I was speaking of people who state such things as a fact of life. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

      If you want to value other species more highly, that is your choice, but that gives my genes a competitive advantage over yours.

      You must have misunderstand me. I believe that every living being has the exact same value: nothing. As for your genes, well, I couldn't care less about such a thing.

      I must admit that I am quite happy to have my competitors handicap themselves

      Who's competing? I'm not.

      How can you be certain that a plant does not suffer when it is damaged or killed?

      I can't, and I didn't say that I could. I merely stated that I would rather eat a living being that might suffer rather than a living being that does suffer.

      You claim to be able to see everything

      Where?

      If you like, you can silently append 'to humans' or 'for humans' to every statement you hear if it makes you feel better, but the rest of us will just leave it unspoken until our culture encounters another culture that is easily able to communicate with us and the distinction becomes more relevant.

      I don't know what you've experienced, but I've experienced a multitude of people who state that humans are factually more important than everything else. These people are unwilling to admit that such a thing is just an opinion. Perhaps adding "to humans" or "for humans" to such statements really would be for the best.

    10. Re:Ethically unpalatable by monkyyy · · Score: 1

      lol do u really think most meat comes from fields anymore? they've been industrialized

      --
      warning pointless sig
    11. Re:Ethically unpalatable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, because everything a human states is absolute fact. I'm not sure if that's what you were stating, but value is completely and utterly subjective. For instance, it is my belief that everything amounts to nothing. Nothing has value. Not humans, and not other animals. Even if a human says otherwise, that is only their own belief. People who try to pass on this arbitrary value as fact are merely arrogant.

      and for some (such as you) as a reason to feel morally superior to other people.

      This could be said of so many situations that it's ridiculous.

  21. Why? by Therilith · · Score: 1

    Meat would be incredibly wasteful to produce even if they do it in a lab.

    If their goal is to "feed the hungry/poor", why use meat at all? There are far cheaper/better/more ethical ways to do it.

    1. Re:Why? by mangu · · Score: 1

      Meat would be incredibly wasteful to produce even if they do it in a lab.

      Do you drink beer or wine, do you eat cheese or bread? All those depend on growing organisms "in a lab".

    2. Re:Why? by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      Lots of foods are "wasteful" to produce if you compare them to more efficient sources. However, I submit that your palate would not enjoy eating nothing but Spirulina all the time, with plain water to drink.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    3. Re:Why? by VisceralLogic · · Score: 1

      Meat would be incredibly wasteful to produce even if they do it in a lab.

      If their goal is to "feed the hungry/poor", why use meat at all? There are far cheaper/better/more ethical ways to do it.

      What's "unethical" about growing meat in a lab?

      --
      Stop! Dremel time!
  22. Not optimistic by lyinhart · · Score: 1

    I'm guessing the same fear inducing forces that makes folks shy away from food irradiation will take hold here. Stem cell research gets a lot of attention, even if governments aren't likely to fund it either. But research into synthesizing a food source is just as important as stem cell research, if not more important, considering what a huge issue world hunger is today.

    --
    Freedom is drinking a beer in the park when you're supposed to be at work.
    1. Re:Not optimistic by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      But research into synthesizing a food source is just as important as stem cell research, if not more important, considering what a huge issue world hunger is today.

      I disagree; I see more value in "advancing medical knowledge" than I do in "providing food for the religiosity gene to spread".

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
  23. Tastes like... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Despair?

    1. Re:Tastes like... by Fri13 · · Score: 1

      Spam..... Spam... spam... spam.....

    2. Re:Tastes like... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is it possible it just needs salt?

  24. Wendy Meat - Yum! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Rudy Rucker will like some credit.

  25. grow houses and buildings with meat and muscles by gargamelo · · Score: 1

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw9s0ivfn3w saw Mitchell Joachim on TED.com speak about this last year, organic space-ships on sci-fi movies maybe in not so far away as thought.

  26. if it takes millions of people to move one guy.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    just what is a fair day's pay? we're all meat products already, time to eat differently/less as well? rumour has it that everything will have to wait 'till all the hungry babies are fed/we stop killing each other. see you there?

  27. As a "mostly vegetarian"... by Twinbee · · Score: 1

    As a "mostly vegetarian", this story leaves me somewhat confused and challenges my prejudices a bit (of which I'm fully aware of the irrationality). I don't eat meat mainly because of the 'yuck' factor as well as the sometimes questionable moral issues (and also now because I enjoy the taste of Quorn-type products). Still, this breakthrough of growing meat is interesting. No blood or anything like that required?

    --
    Why OpalCalc is the best Windows calc
    1. Re:As a "mostly vegetarian"... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At the very least I should be amazed if the culture media doesn't contain BSA-Bovine Serum Albumin and/or FCS-Fetal Calf Serum. These are heavily used in culturing mamallian cells.

  28. Fish farms, smaller animals by h00manist · · Score: 1

    As far as I'm concerned this is old technology and called fish farming mainly, though I believe raising smaller animals, also may be an improvement over cattle in terms of carbon produced per-pound of meat.

    --
    Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
  29. Re: Genetically engineer plants to grow it as frui by Lennie · · Score: 1

    But we only have only a few banana plants left, their are no new banana plants anymore. We actually can not create any new species, because we can not grow any new plants anymore.

    All banana come from the same few 'plants' through the process of 'cutting' (not sure http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutting_(plant) ).

    We messed that one up already.

    If their is a banana-plant disease which spreads easily there will be no more banana's.

    --
    New things are always on the horizon
  30. Re: Genetically engineer plants to grow it as frui by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's actually a wives tale; there are loads of other edible banana species; they'll just taste different.

  31. Better this than insects by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Unless the climate warms enough for the Sahara, Antarctic and Greenland to become useful as arable land, but the warming doesn't seem to happen...

  32. Scientists not just growing meat in the lab by clickety6 · · Score: 1

    The majority of the scientists working in labs around here are just growing fat.

    --
    ----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
  33. You cannot contain a disruptive innovation by mangu · · Score: 1

    They will lobby for so many regulations, restrictions, bogus studies and whatnot, so that "grown" meat won't be competitive.

    They tried regulating they tried patenting, they failed to prevent all the industries involved in "traditional" transportation from becoming obsolete.

    1. Re:You cannot contain a disruptive innovation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They will lobby for so many regulations, restrictions, bogus studies and whatnot, so that "grown" meat won't be competitive.

      They tried regulating they tried patenting, they failed to prevent all the industries involved in "traditional" transportation from becoming obsolete.

      Those are some really old cases. Today's lobbyists are more efficient and politicians more easily corruptible. Plus patent and copyright laws are MUCH more powerful than they were back then.

  34. Simple question... by Fri13 · · Score: 1

    Why? Simply why?

    There is already enough food in the world to feed all the people. Problem is just that most of the food is harvested and sold to developed countries and not shared between all nations.

    The problem is caused by commercial and political greed... not by problems to manufacture enough food.

    1. Re:Simple question... by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      A couple simple answers: "because it's there"/"because we can"; but slightly more in depth, we can provide you food at a reduced cost. That's a pretty good reason right there: it affects your wallet beneficially. Further deepening the idea is that this is better for the environment, we'd be farming less cattle which is responsible for a percentage of greenhouse gas emissions.

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    2. Re:Simple question... by trickyD1ck · · Score: 1

      and sold to developed countries

      It is sold to the highest bidder. This is how markets work and it hardly has anything to do with greed.

  35. It tastes like... by Zilthy · · Score: 1

    despair?

    1. Re:It tastes like... by MooseDontBounce · · Score: 1

      despair?

      Len: Maybe we should give the meat blob a mouth to feed it? Ted: NO! I don't want to hear what it might have to say.

  36. Legally sodomize and gore lab-grown meat-girls! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Lab-grown meat will be used mostly to produce human-shaped but brainless meat-dolls, which are aimed at sadistic perverts interested in life-like yet legal rape-torture-murder activities. This has been predicted decades ago in William Gibson's famous Neuromancer SF-novel. The future outlook is very dark for mankind, we will be serving the Prince of Hell if so!

  37. And no funding... by upto0013 · · Score: 1

    And FTA, he's got no funding. I don't see why venture capitalists or those 99%-ers give to stuff like this. Vaccines are nice and all, but getting people enough food to live and not killing the world would be much more beneficial. I've been dreaming of these quivering walls of meat for years -- I even wrote about it in a science-fiction class -- but I don't see it happening before I die, and I'm not even 30. This kind of thing is just like genetically modified crops, it's just to strange for some people to get their heads around. I wish they would wake up and see that what they are eating is a horrific Mengelesque monstrosity borne from greed, and worse than any lab-grown chow could ever be.

  38. great idea, one problem: by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

    when it comes to our food, most of us, even the most flaming liberal, are paleolithic conservatives. look at the hoopla over GM crops: GM crops are of course, utterly harmless, and in fact do wonderful things: orange rice (vitamin A in rice), salt resistant crops, crops that can grow with less water etc. but talk to most people about GM crops, and they act like someone is trying to get them eat radioactive botulism. its completely irrational

    likewise, this meat-from-a-vat is THE answer to food crises and vegetarian ethical problems with killing animals. and yet i have a sneaky sinking feeling people will react to it the same way they act to GM food. which, again, is irrational, but i am beginning to get the idea that people, when it comes to their food, are mostly reactionary conservatives

    a lot of us have open minds, but most of us have closed stomachs

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    1. Re:great idea, one problem: by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      GM crops are of course, utterly harmless

      [citation needed] Specifically, I'd be looking for a citation not sponsored by a company who stands to profit from GM crops.

      A perfectly reasonable argument for our gastronomical conservatism: Humans, like all other animals, evolved in a way that they're healthiest when they eat certain kinds of food and nothing else. While we know a great deal about what that food's components are, we don't know everything, and so while we can manage kinda sorta on food that is kinda sorta similar to what we evolved to eat, we'd do better eating exactly what we evolved to eat.

      It's the same concept as zoos feeding their koalas eucalyptus leaves rather than some other similar food - koalas are healthiest eating eucalyptus leaves.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    2. Re:great idea, one problem: by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

      what bullshit

      of course if they made corn produce methanol it won't be good for us. of course GM can be abused. but no one is talking about what you can do in the darkest corners of your imagination with GM, we're talking about simple, plainly obvious improvements in food like shelf life, yields, vitamin A in rice, salt resistance, low water resistance, etc. there is no rational reason to resist this sort of GM food improvements

      but some people, like yourself, if you just say "GM food" its like i'm trying to put botulism in your bath water. enough with the irrational hysteria! GM food is good for the world, and if you thought about it, rather than react on emotional hysteria, you would agree with me

      --
      intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    3. Re:great idea, one problem: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but some people, like yourself, if you just say "GM food" its like i'm trying to put botulism in your bath water. enough with the irrational hysteria!

      You're a liar. GP said nothing of the sort, or anything that could honestly be mistaken for anything of the sort.

      Stop pretending that anyone who disagrees with you is a foaming-at-the-mouth lunatic. You do it all the time, you do it on purpose, and you do it because you know you're too stupid to formulate an intelligent counterargument. No other reason is possible.

    4. Re:great idea, one problem: by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Yes, but if I change the genetic of other eucalyptus plants, they could then eat that and be perfectly healthy.

      I suggest you read up on Norman Borlaug's writings.

      No, we wouldn't. In fact fortified foods have made us healthier over all then any time throughout man's history.

      You can improve on things, and GE is how we will feed people over the next 100 years.

      SO tell me genius, what did we exactly evolve to eat? I mean molecularly, where the work is done.
      What's that? you don't know the basic thincs food is broken down to? never studying the molecular action from food?

      well then Shut The Fuck Up.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  39. Leading to a philosophical question: by Arancaytar · · Score: 1

    If you eat meat, and there is no animal it belonged to, will it still upset PETA?

    1. Re:Leading to a philosophical question: by Jarnin · · Score: 1

      PETA has had a 1 million dollar reward for lab grown meat for quite a few years.

  40. Re: Genetically engineer plants to grow it as frui by starsky51 · · Score: 1

    Dilbert already called it. He invented the Tomeato. It didn't go down well!

    --
    There are 2 types of people in this world. Those who understand ternary and those who don't.
  41. Meat's good, but what about bacteria and fungus? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How about bacteria and or fungus growths. Can either of these be made to grow with all of the enzymes and essential amino acids that the body needs? Seems like that would be easier to grow than artificial meat.

  42. Cost reduce it into garbage by CityZen · · Score: 1

    Do the rest? You mean reduce costs as much as possible until what you're left with is junk? Grow the "meat" using waste by-products from other industries? Allow as much bacteria as possible as long as you can drug or irradiate it away, and add artificial colorings and flavorings to cover it up? I don't think it will be long until "garbage in, garbage out" becomes the norm, followed by a "our cultured meat is made more organically" reaction, which is then followed by major manufacturers, starting the cycle over again.

  43. The real question: by __aaelyr464 · · Score: 1

    What about vegans and vegetarians? Since this meat (if I am understanding this correctly) does not come directly from an animal, and rather is GROWN much like a vegetable/fruit (in a sense), will we now open up a new avenue to our vegan friends? Nah, probably not. More fake-meat for me!

    1. Re:The real question: by turtledawn · · Score: 1

      Requires blood serum at the moment. Eventually we'll be able to completely characterize and E. coli farm all of the relevant growth factors, but we're not there yet.

      --
      Uh, "if it looks roughly mouse-shaped according to my infra-red sensitive pit, eat it"? --Chris Burke 09-08-10
  44. Braiiiinnnnnss by aztrailerpunk · · Score: 1

    I'm pretty sure this is what starts the zombie apocalypse. Ed: Any zombies out there? Shaun: Don't say that! Ed: What? Shaun: That! Ed: What? Shaun: The zed-word. Don't say it! Ed: Why not? Shaun: Because it's ridiculous! Ed: All right... are there any out there, though? Shaun: I can't see any. Maybe it's not as bad as all that. Shaun: Oh, no, there they are.

    --
    Foot placed squarely in mouth since 1983.
  45. Re: Genetically engineer plants to grow it as frui by Thing+1 · · Score: 2

    But we only have only a few banana plants left, their are no new banana plants anymore.

    In other words: We have no new banana plants today!

    --
    I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
  46. A ridiculous pipe-dream, imho. by Biotech9 · · Score: 2

    ***Dr. Mironov has taken myoblasts -- embryonic cells that develop into muscle tissue -- from turkey and bathed them in a nutrient bath of bovine serum***

    There are several problems here. I don't grow meat in the lab, but I have grown many types of cells, human heart, FSC, CHO and currently mouse keratinocytes, fibroblasts and skin stem cells. Forget about them long enough and you get your first little layer of meat on the bottom of the tissue flask. (As an aside, growing human heart cells is amazing, you can add adrenaline and they start to beat in sync).

    The reason this will not currently work is the cost, it is in the media, which for eukaryotes requires FCS (usually) to grow. FCS is calf serum, you can read how it's made on wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_bovine_serum). FCS costs money, comes from animals and can be a disease vector.

    The answer in every article I've ever read from people growing meat is that serum free media will be designed so that eukaryotic cells will be able to live and grow without animal products. This is rubbish, if it was so easy to make a perfect 'defined' media (as a media without FCS is called), that works well with eukaryotic cells, all of us working with animal cell culturing would use it. It would be a far bigger breakthrough for the biotech and pharma industries than it would be for the meat makers. It would make the inventor rich and give them a Nobel.

    Secondly you have running costs, people see the idea of growing meat in a vat as like growing beer in a vat. This is bullshit, beer is made from tough, resilient yeast. And beer manages to have QC problems.

    Meat is made from eukaryotic cells, which are a lot more complex and a lot more sensitive than yeast. If you want to know what growing meat in a vat would be like, look at pharma, recombinant protein products. Stuff like Factor VIII. It's worth more than it's weight in gold. Contamination is a much bigger problem, media costs are higher and all hardware costs a ton.

    Economies of scale would bring down prices, but not that much, it all just COSTS a lot. And the FCS problem will never be economy-of-scaled away. It's the elephant in the room that nobody in these stupid interviews ever mentions.

    1. Re:A ridiculous pipe-dream, imho. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cost, cost, cost. Another technology that is potentially put to a halt thanks to our worthless economical system.

      The reason this will not currently work is the cost, it is in the media, which for eukaryotes requires FCS (usually) to grow. FCS is calf serum, you can read how it's made on wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_bovine_serum). FCS costs money, comes from animals and can be a disease vector.

      As far as I heard, they were working on a "plant-based medium" so that they wouldn't have to use that. Whatever that means.

    2. Re:A ridiculous pipe-dream, imho. by Raptoer · · Score: 1

      As long as it doesn't contain any cells, couldn't you take each protein and have a bacterium produce it? You would no longer have to worry about sterility issues, since no animal was involved. I know it would be by no means simple, but it would allow for completely ethical mass production.

    3. Re:A ridiculous pipe-dream, imho. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You keep mentioning "eukaryotic cells". Were you aware that yeast is eukaryotic?

  47. Good point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To be honest I believe with the situation the way it is, with the millions that are starving around the world that something like this would be a break through on so many levels. People may say that the quality of the meat is not as good, but then again if you look at the average slab of pork or beef in walmart, most come from industrialized meat farms.

    I say if it is tested enough and there are no health effects or other issues with this beef it should be produced. After all, populations are getting larger and land is getting smaller.

  48. Seriously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    His name had to be Vladimir didn't it?

  49. Carnaculture as envisioned by H. Beam Piper by WillAdams · · Score: 1

    in his Terro-Human Future (available in an omnibus edition here: http://down.4dots.com/30100/Terro-Human%20Future%20History%20Omnibus%20-%20H.%20Beam%20Piper.epub ).

    William

    --
    Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
  50. Super Meat Boy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Subject says it all.

  51. PETA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm really curious as to how organizations like PETA feel about this. Logically it would make sense to me that they should be strong and vocal supporters of met grown in labs, and very happy to pour money into supporting this kind of research. It is the most practical and sensible way to reduce the killing of animals on a large scale.
    Then again, everything that comes out of PETA and friends have always seemed to me to be completely illogical, except for that advertisement with the naked women fondling veggies.

    1. Re:PETA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Welcome to the Internet. There is no reason to remain curious about these questions. Just go find out the answer.

  52. Why? ... Protein, Fat and caloric density by clonan · · Score: 1

    Staple plants (like corn, rice, wheat and potatoes, etc) are an excellent source of fiber, vitamins some minerals and a moderate source of calories. They generally lack enough protein and fats. You must remember that a human being as essential Amino Acids AND essential fatty acids which must both be satisfied through diet.

    Vegetarians generally have a difficult time fullfilling these requierments without very carefull diets. These diets include a wide range of species which is often difficult and expensive to maintain and well outside the budget of most developing nations. A healthy vegetarian diet can be more expensive and land/resource intensive than a diet with a few (say 6) ounces of meat a day. In addition, there are vitamins which are not available from any plant source (B12 and others) and must be provided in pill form which may be an impossibility for poor nations...

    A true Vegan diet is a biologic impossibility

    Finally, meat is much more calorically dense than almost any plant matter. If you have to SHIP food, it is acutally easier to ship calories as meat than almost any plant material.

  53. Lab Meat by AmberBlackCat · · Score: 1

    I'll bet Taco Bell is following this research very closely.

  54. Yes, because it's all about pain by saibot834 · · Score: 2

    Yes, of course. What makes eating meat unethical is the support for factory farming, in which animals greatly suffer. (I recommend reading Jonathan Safran Foers Eating Animals)

    If there is no animal, there is no pain, and everything is fine (except that we're already eating so much meat that it's unhealthy).

    In fact, PETA promised One Million Dollars for the first commercially viable growing of artificial meat.

  55. if it gets that bad... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it will get even worse. if we get so cramped and compacted and low on resources that we can't keep animals around for food, the great cataclysm just needs to happen, civilization needs to fall, and billions of people need to die in order to keep this planet sustainable. sometimes shit just needs to be destroyed to be rebuilt again, hopefully with a little more foresight.

    seriously, most of our problems...we use technology not as a solution, but as a way to postpone the solution. it's like borrowing money. the longer you wait to pay it off, the bigger the debt gets.

  56. Ethical problems by saibot834 · · Score: 1

    Also, what ethical problem is there is eating meat ?!?

    The basic premises most people have is:

    a) human interests have to be considered when weighting different options of actions

    b) non-human animal rights & interests do NOT to be considered in an equal way as human interests

    These premises lead to the conclusion, that there must be a fundamental difference between humans and non-human animals. Throughout history, philosophers have searched for such a distinction. Long story short, they failed.

    Take "the ability to talk" for instance. Long believed to be an uniquely human feature, we now know that at least some other animals communicate as well (using a different language of course).

    Take another example, the ability to do complex math. Fine, non-human animals can't do that, but neither do all humans, right? When we're saying that only humans can do complex math and therefor deserve to be considered, doesn't that mean we should not give rights to those, who are unable to do that? You might respond that every human (e.g. a child) being may evolve to someone who can do complex math, but that's simply not true. There are serious illnesses which disables some children to do math for all their live.
    So, what's that magical difference between humans and animals? Many modern philosophers have came to the conclusion, that there isn't such a big difference after all, and that we should consider animal interest's equally to human interests.

    It should be obvious, that factory farming greatly violates animal interests not to be tortured.

    I recommend reading Animal Rights by Peter Singer; unlike popular belief, Slashdot comments are not sufficient to give philosophical debates the space they deserve.

    1. Re:Ethical problems by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      Yes, because Peter Singer is such a great source for ethics. This is the man who thinks that bestiality is fine, that parents should be allowed to kill thier children up until some not clearly specified age (on at least one occasion he mentioned 5 years old). Peter Singer may have wonderful ethics, but he has no morals.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    2. Re:Ethical problems by mcmonkey · · Score: 1

      Gosh. What a load of gobbledegook.

      There is absolutely, undeniably, objectively a difference between humans and other animals, and such that other animals' interests are not equal to the interests of humans.

      It is, I am a human. I am a human.

      And as a human, I give greater weight to the concerns and needs of humans. I'm not saying there should be no moral or ethical restrictions on treatment of animals. I'm not saying animals don't feel pain. I'm just saying, I have a bias towards my own species, particularly in regards to the survival of my species, and no one should have any issue with this.

      Put it this way, obviously the lion is biased towards the interests of lions. The lion is not concerned with the rights of the gazelle. Now, the lion does have some interests which align with the gazelle's. If all the gazelles disappear, the lion will starve. So both the lion and gazelle have an interest in there continuing to be more gazelles.

      But the lion never puts the interests of the gazelle above--or even at the same level--as his own interests. For anyone to suggest the lion do otherwise is foolishness beyond idiocracy.

      And so, in your own words, since there is no "magical difference between humans and animals" shouldn't humans put their own interests above those of other species, the same way those other species look after their own?

      Again, I am not saying there are no rules when it comes to treatment of animals. I think Michael Vick should be rotting in a prison cell somewhere and not making millions of dollars. I think better living conditions for livestock produce healthier food to eat.

      But that does not mean by the merely being human I have some original sin robbing me of some right given to every other living thing on the planet.

      Why don't your modern philosophers try to explain to a mosquito that their interests are equal to human interests, and that they should stop spreading malaria.

      The day the mosquitoes agree is the day I become a vegan.

      Until then, praise the lord and pass the steak sauce.

    3. Re:Ethical problems by robsku · · Score: 1

      Personally I like to think that - rather than focusing on how similar we are to other species - we are in fact very different from animals like lions on one thing. We have evolved into a culture and situation where we can actually live and let live, for first time in human history this has become possible pretty much around the globe (though maybe not 100% everywhere and everyone has that possibility). Unlike the big kitten, we have ways to think further than the plate in front of us, we can make highly sophisticated choices on how/what do we want to eat based on information about how nutritious something is - and fact is that eating meat is not a question of life and death, in fact it's very far from it. So far that personally I don't find eating meat an acceptable option - but I don't start preaching about it, however when someone speaks pro-carnivore and uses survival of humans (etc) as argument, like it was something mandatory for being able to life healthy, I do open my mouth too.

      --
      In capitalist USA corporations control the government.
  57. Bob The Angry Flower references by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This article definitely needs these two Bob The Angry Flower references :-)

    http://angryflower.com/vegeta.gifThe vegetarian's dilemma
    http://www.angryflower.com/meatsh.htmlMeat sheets

  58. Did they use "MeatLab" to analyze the data? by Trip6 · · Score: 1

    Sorry.

    --
    I hate being bipolar; it's awesome!
  59. I got yer cultured meat right here. by WebManWalking · · Score: 0

    *grabs crotch*

  60. obligatory xkcd by louic · · Score: 1

    http://xkcd.com/418/ s/cook/grow/

  61. growing meat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have also been working on something similar. I tried to grow the font size of Slashdot comments.

    However, I was not as successful, the text will grow, but spill uncontrollably right out of the browser window, so you have to use the horizontal scroll bar to read every single line.

     

  62. Tube Steak now has a literal meaning by Penicillus · · Score: 1

    Yum!

  63. mad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I want mine with BSE on top.

  64. "Better Off Ted" Reference by guttentag · · Score: 1
    The Better Off Ted episode "Heroes" revolves around growing meat in a lab for the military. They market it as "Beef without Cows," but generally just refer to it as the meat blob. Phil becomes somewhat attached to it:

    Phil: "Blobby! Like Bobby, only with an L."
    Lem: "Don't name it or you won't want to eat it! Remember Chester the Carrot?"
    Phil: "Yeah, I miss him."

    Apparently the meat blob tastes terrible until they figure out it "needs exercise" like real cows and hook it up to electrodes that give it electric shocks at regular intervals overnight.

    Tester: It tastes familiar.
    Ted: Beef?
    Tester: No.
    Linda: Chicken? We'll take chicken.
    Ted: What does it taste like?
    Tester: Despair.
    Ted: Is it possible it just needs salt?

  65. Wraith hive ships! by simoncpu+was+here · · Score: 1

    He's developing the Wraith pathogen that is used for growing war ships that are capable of regeneration.

  66. Tissue culture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Has anyone here actually done tissue culture? I have. It involves several animal derived ingredients, most notably fetal bovine serum (FBS), aka dead baby cow juice. It also requires large quantities of antibiotics. And I would hazard that the energy input and carbon footprint is huge (although this would likely drop as industrial production was scaled up).

    Not exactly what PETA had in mind...

  67. This meat requires FCS to grow. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anyone thinking this will be a vegetarian alternative simply needs to wiki Fetal Calf Serum or Fetal Bovine Serum to see how this meat is "grown".

  68. Re:Meat's good, but what about bacteria and fungus by jameskojiro · · Score: 1

    Quorn.......

    They already have this and it's name is Quorn...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quorn

    --
    Tsukasa: All I really want, is to be left alone...
  69. Simpler solution: by toby · · Score: 1

    Eat less, or no, meat.

    Cattle ranching is the #1 cause of deforestation in the Amazon. Unless it is curtailed (ideally by a decline in demand for unsustainable meat, but military action should also be an option), there will be no Amazon in a few years.

    --
    you had me at #!
  70. Spam - Prior Art by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    ...the canned stuff, not the Nigerian pills.

  71. A Thought by LordGreyElf · · Score: 1

    Here is a thought... If this tech can be perfected AND proven safe then establish PERMANENT colonies on the Moon and Mars will be ONE STEP CLOSER!

  72. Overpopulation is the problem by Arawak · · Score: 1

    "It's a product he believes could help solve future global food crises resulting from shrinking amounts of land available"

    Hello? Time to wake up and face the real problem... we have waaaaay too many people. Pretty much every problem we face as a species has its roots in overpopulation. Humans are not nearly cool enough that we need 6 billion of them. Probably a couple hundred million is plenty.

    We better do something about the problem, before the problem takes care of itself in the form of pandemics, famine, etc.

    1. Re:Overpopulation is the problem by trickyD1ck · · Score: 1

      We better do something about the problem

      Let's nuke Africa! It's just not cool enough.

  73. The Truth About Land Use in the United States by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 1

    http://www.westernwatersheds.org/watmess/watmess_2002/2002html_summer/article6.htm
    "The great bulk of agricultural production goes toward forage production used primarily by livestock. A small shift in our diet away from meat could have a tremendous impact on the ground in terms of freeing up lands for restoration and wildlife habitat. It would also reduce the poisoning of our streams and groundwater with pesticides and other residue of modern agricultural practices. ... The U.S. has 2.3 billion acres of land. However, 375 million acres are in Alaska and not suitable for agricultural production. The land area of the lower 48 states is approximately 1.9 billion acres. ... About 349 million acres in the U.S. are planted for crops. This is the equivalent of about four states the size of Montana. Four crops -- feeder corn (80 million acres), soybeans (75 million acres), alfalfa hay (61 million acres) and wheat (62 million acres) -- make up 80 percent of total crop acreage. All but wheat are primarily used to feed livestock. The amount of land used to produce all vegetables in the U.S. is less than 3 million acres. ... Range and Pasture Land- Some 788 million acres, or 41.4 percent of the U. S. excluding Alaska, are grazed by livestock. This is an area the size of 8.3 states the size of Montana. Grazed lands include rangeland, pasture and cropland pasture. More than 309 million acres of federal, state and other public lands are grazed by domestic livestock. Another 140 million acres are forested lands that are grazed. ... Despite all the hand wringing over sprawl and urbanization, only 66 million acres are considered developed lands. This amounts to 3 percent of the land area in the U.S., yet this small land base is home to 75 percent of the population. ... "

    Similar to suggested above, when you include grain production for animal feed to grazing land, literally half the land in the USA is devoted to animal product production, according to the movie this is a preview of:
    http://www.ravediet.com/preview.html

    Note that, overall, people in the USA would be healthier if they ate a lot less animal products and processed foods (including sugar and refined grains) and a lot more vegetables, fruits, and beans (and some nuts, seeds, and whole grains, and a few key supplements like vitamin D, B12, iodine, etc.). But the agricultural subsidies are the opposite of what we need for good health in the USA.

    See also:
    http://www.seriouseats.com/2007/11/the-subsidized-food-pyramid.html
    http://www.drfuhrman.com/library/foodpyramid.aspx

    --
    A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
    1. Re:The Truth About Land Use in the United States by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah yes, let us free up the crappiest scrubbiest land we have, far far away from anything anyone cares about. Habitat for jackrabbits and buzzards which everyone knows are near extinction. Ranchland is not much good for anything else, which is why its ranchland vs being desert, which is not worth a damn.

      Fake meat means not having to kill another living creature. This is reason enough.

  74. Scientists should work to grow brains in a lab. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The sad fact is that the human body does not need meat. ~60% of the world is still vegetarian. What do think horses eat? That whole meat-protein-food-pyramid mentality shatters to pieces when you look at the world's top nutritionists' research on what makes the human body actually healthy, actually. So all you meat-addicts out there- The first step is admitting you have a problem. Fresh raw spirulina anyone? Maybe some fresh home grown sprouts? Oh wait you can't patent and artificially monetize that. I implore the ~80% (I'm being very generous here) of my fellow slashdotters to get a grip on their vitality and mentality.

  75. Master Plan Revealed - Emphasis on Veal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1. Grow your own meat, cows unnecessary.
    2. To stop global warming, destroy all the cows and their farts.
    3. ????
    4. Profit!

  76. Grade A PETA approved by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I suppose this is better than eating bugs but how does it taste?

  77. I can't wait. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I hope they can make lots of different types of meat. I would like to start with artificial baby seal.

  78. Population control or weird science. You choose by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We don't need cultured meat or biotech solutions. In the long term population control will become inevitable either imposed or as a natural result of this man made disaster in waiting. It would be better to introduce it now but that isn't in the interests of the people in charge because although they realise that an increasing population means less for everyone, they still believe that they can take an increasingly larger slice of what there is.

    Businessmen and politicians love population growth. It increases competition, expands markets, pushes reliance on the technologies which they want to sell you and children occupy the minds of adults who might otherwise focus their attention on the businessmen and the politicians.

    Businessmen and politicians look the other way when the effects of population growth is mentioned then throw their hands in the air exclaiming, "Oh dear, we honestly didn't really want to genetically engineer that four legged chicken - but the increasing population has forced our hand already. We had to do it. Duh!"

    Population growth is the elephant in the room. The world population has already doubled in my lifetime and is set to double again by 2040. It accounts for all of the man made disasters worldwide. Without it petrol would not run out for hundreds of years yet, there would be no problem with mountains of recycled gadgets, there would be no smog or depletion of fish stocks. By 2040 it will be too late to do anything about the growing disaster that population growth represents and western nations will experience the misery that only the populations of poor nations currently know about.

    The recent world food price fluctuations are a symptom of this. Increasingly your politicians are backing you into a corner from which there is no way out. Reliance on hi tech for your food supply will end in disaster for someone but at the same time will make the shareholders rich.

    If the world population had been kept at the level it was when I was born, the world would already have met all of the Kyoto protocols without taking any action at all.

    Every time I read or hear someone who has children express their fears about the ecology of this planet and the future of their children I shake my head in disbelief.

  79. Better Off Ted... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The tv show did this and it was a great episode... http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1402241/

  80. What a disgusting waste of time and money. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So pointless and unnecessary. We should be moving away from a meat based diet, the alternatives are far healthy and easier to produce.

  81. What's the point? by nbauman · · Score: 1

    This is like turning gold into lead.

    Dr. Mironov has taken myoblasts -- embryonic cells that develop into muscle tissue -- from turkey and bathed them in a nutrient bath of bovine serum on a scaffold made of chitosan (a common polymer found in nature) to grow animal skeletal muscle tissue.

    He's turning bovine serum http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_bovine_serum which costs about $800 per kilogram, http://products.invitrogen.com/ivgn/en/US/adirect/invitrogen?cmd=catDisplayStyle&catKey=100301&filterDispName=Mammalian+Cell+Culture&filterType=1&OP=filter&filter=ft_1701%2Ff_188301*&_bcs_=H4sIAAAAAAAAAMWQ22rDMAyGn8Y3CwlODFt6maWklMIY67Z746iJwYfgQ0LefvK6lrGV3Q6EfiRb%0A8vc7Lwmtn53towg%2BI9V9dgQ3SwH%2Bj%2F4YwkRYQ6oOY1mWQppZBmcHMIWwGpteBkCJHhMYTKPVqXHZ%0AmHPT59eNVddMk5KCB2mNL8agFb5CKpaC1sFFSDV9oCglLXFgs0G9w7IFpbI2qhAdJE6uEe0xe3Xc%0A%2BBOItDF7AY5o4Rf69EXzk581NcVjOQ%2Fmwv92xMR76XBlOroOENYJ3RO23b%2FvntDBVvpJ8bXlAQbr%0AViTC5gFWvPHJ%2FN3YiSt%2F2xlqSSk7W8R%2Fivqf2c80t%2BA%2FAApkysVCAgAA into meat, which sells for about $5-10 a kilogram.

    Bovine serum is a byproduct of the commercial meat industry. So he first has to farm the animals, and slaughter them, to get the serum, to grow a much smaller quantity of meat.

  82. Dilbert: The Tomeato by fejrskov · · Score: 1

    Dilbert already made this: It's called the tomeato (to-meat-o). Grown on a plant that really likes to live in mud (Elbonia), shaped as a brick for practical purposes (transport, storage etc.), and with the texture of a black/white cow. It was all done in good intentions to make Elbonians eat the tomeato instead of mud, but of course the result is a total collapse of the Elbonian society structure. Poor people started to build their houses using tomeatoes instead of mud because it was cheaper :-)

  83. "Chicken Little" has been around for a long time by swaha · · Score: 1
  84. Do they ever learn? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They should start doing some research on perma culture, and stop trying to solve the worlds food problems in a lab

  85. Oh..., I have seen this before!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Soylent Green

  86. Unfortunately for my family... by Alimony+Pakhdan · · Score: 1

    Since the process of production involves chitosan the resulting "meat" would be be very likely impossible to certify as kosher. Wikipedia tells me that "Commercial chitosan is derived from the shells of shrimp and other sea crustaceans" so even if the original turkey mytoblast cells and the "bovine serum" cells were sourced from animals which were slaughtered kosher, the use of ingredients derived from crustaceans in the manufacturing process fouls the resultant food product from my perspective. This is too bad because where my family lives there is no legal source of kosher meat. If this type of process could be done without crustacean derived chitosan using a coffee machine sized appliance, it might be a real boon to small Jewish communities around the world.

    Note: IANAR and there is currently no authoritative consensus on the kashrut status of any synthesized meat products.

    1. Re:Unfortunately for my family... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You realize this kosher stuff is all in your head right? As in, people talk about it like it has the same seriousness as food allergies, but it's just some religious stuff.

  87. Scientists Work To Grow Meat In a Lab by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...by stroking themselves.

  88. Human meat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now, it will be easy to eat Human meat