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Vatican Bans IOS Confession App
An anonymous reader writes "Despite all the hype that a lowly priest had approved the new confessional app hitting the app store, the truth has now revealed itself. According to today's Daily Mail, a spokesman for the Vatican, Federico Lombardi said: 'It is essential to understand that the rites of penance require a personal dialogue between penitents and their confessor. It cannot be replaced by a computer application. I must stress to avoid all ambiguity, under no circumstance is it possible to confess by iPhone."
Confessions probably shouldn't be communicated over cellular data connections, anyway..
vos nescitis quicquam, nec cogitatis quia expedit nobis ut unus moriatur homo pro populo et non tota gens pereat.
FTA: The Vatican has warned that an app can never replace visiting a priest.
Oh, I don't know. An app is much easier on the ass.
Trolling is a art,
Stopped reading there.
To pay the 30% Apple tax on selling indulgences through IAP either - is it a consumable or a subscription?
To be more specific the app is not banned, but it's purpose has been clarified.
It is an app designed to help prepare people for confession, they only say no to the idea of this replacing the act of confessing to a priest.
The app wasn't to make confessions anyway, but to assist Catholics in the confession process. From the original article: "So, how does the app work? It leads you through an 'Examination of Conscience' to help you figure out what your real sins are -- and not just by retreading your run of the mill 10 Commandments. The sinful suggestions the app offers are inventive and even age appropriate."
I've read elsewhere that one of the priests who designed it, had a parishioner show up in the confession box with it, and used the app during confession to help remind him of his transgressions.
So this is just grandstanding by the Papacy. The app was never meant to replace "personal dialogue between penitents and their confessor." This is like saying Google Maps is bad because it somehow replaces the actual travel you're intending to take. Uh, no.
Liberal? Conservative? Compare perspectives at Left-Right
I didn't know that Viacom was running the church now
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
Don't you mean excommunicates?
The iPhone app was never meant to replace the Sacrament. It is a tool to help people prepare, do it, and pray. I don't agree with using a digital device while in confession or saving information even temporarily on devices when it comes to my sins.
There is a free application for Android devices that is similar called PenanceProject. It helps users do an examination of conscience before the Sacrament and to pray afterwards.
You can get the application here: https://market.android.com/details?id=appinventor.ai_jamorrow.PenanceProject
To find out more about The Penance Project and why Catholics confess please visit: http://www.thepenanceproject.
The app in question was created to help people through the process of Confession. It's a little daunting if you haven't done it in a while. Trust me, as a chronic on-again-off-again Catholic, I know. I have he app. It just takes the place of old catechism books I would use to brush up on Confession before going.
The article says that no app can ever replace going to a priest. That's not what this app attempts to do. The conclusion that the app is banned is drawn from faulty logic. There is no ban. Who ever wrote the article has absolutely no idea what either side of this is talking about.
"under no circumstance is it possible to confess by iPhone"
What about a burning bush????? I suppose that's an approved holy communication device?
Hope is the currency of fools
This app doesn't do confession. It never did. That was some creation by an incredibly simplistic media headline which was always wrong.
The app helps you figure out what your sins are, and can keep track of what you've previously confessed.
So all they're saying now is that the app can't do something that it never did in the first place. Umm, goodie?
-- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
The Vatican didn't BAN anything! A spokesperson for the Vatican said it wasn't supposed to be used for call-in confessions — which it was never DESIGNED to do in the first place; it's not even possible to do that!
RTFA!
a spokesman for the Vacitan, Federico Lombardi said: ‘It is essential to understand that the rites of penance require a personal dialogue between penitents and their confessor.’It cannot be replaced by a computer application’. ‘I must stress to avoid all ambiguity, under no circumstance is it possible to "confess by iPhone".’
The guy is STATING THE OBVIOUS because the app has been sensationalized, hello! /. is better than this!
I don't really think the Vatican cares much about what the app really does. I think they are more concerned by the hype that came around it. I just heard about this from friends and coworkers and they all were lead to think (from their own sources I suppose) that the app was actually used for confessing and getting absolved through it.
So put the blame about this misunderstanding on whoever you want, the Vatican just wanted to make clear they have not and will never allow such a thing.
I actually agree with this, to an extent. Religion aside, my understanding (as an atheist) is that confession is supposed to be an admission of guilt, and reflects an internal acceptance of the church's morality. I'm not saying that morality is particularly right, but I digress. I think the actual visit with another person is a vital part of that admission and acceptance. With a quick look through any online forum, it's quite clear that people are inclined to be aggressive and dishonest if they think they are anonymous.
Remove the personal contact, and sincerity vanishes as well.
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
You can't confess to an App is right, but confessing to another human is still not the right way.
They couldn't get past the l33tspeak and SMS language
for9!ve m3 fath3r f0r I h@ve s!nn3d,OMG LOL
!'ve l00k3d 4t pr0n and OMG th!s ch!ck w@s hawt!!
l8r noob
Maybe the FBI would be more interested...
'It is essential to understand that the rites of penance require a personal dialogue between penitents and their maker. It cannot be replaced by a priest. I must stress to avoid all ambiguity, under no circumstance is it possible to confess through a mere mortal, regardless of what drivel they profess."
I disliked this idea from the start. I'm no catholic, but I can see well enough what confession is for, and a big part of it is the symbolist action of going to a church...
It's so wrong it's wrong about being wrong. The app was never intended to replace confession to begin with. It was to assist people in doing an examination of conscience so they could be better prepared for their real confession with the priest. At no point was this app ever intended to *replace* confession. It's like a study guide to help you prepare for an exam, not an exam itself. However, much of the news media saw "Confession App" and often did zero research on the subject and was just like "LOL ROBOTS REPLACING PRIESTS". I will say that NPR at least got the story correct, but I saw a lot of other news outlets that did not at all.
In fact, the Vatican saying that an iPhone app cannot replace confession with a priest is exactly the same as the app's creator's belief. The Vatican is not banning the app at all, and their statement is likely more a reaction to the aforementioned news media and idiotic public who didn't even try to figure out what the app's purpose was rather than an indictment of the app itself.
I was confessing with my iPhone app, and suddenly, I felt God's "Grip of Death". My connection was dropped, and I dropped my iPhone, as well. I guess I'll have to convert to another religion. Are Protestantism, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, or Buddhism locked, or unlocked? How long are the minimum contracts with the carrier?
That piss-poor joke aside, I'm not religious myself. But I could imagine that religious folks wouldn't mind religious learning apps on their iPhones. Like quotes of the day from the Holy books?
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
From what I gather the app does nothing more than act as a "confession for dummies" in that it guides you through the process, among other things suggesting potentially confessable sins.
The Bible actually clearly states you are to confess sin directly to God, not to man. But the Catholic Church wants you dependent on the Church, and this app removes part of that dependence.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
I believe they tried that before, using indulgences. It didn't end well. In fact, it led to the splintering of Christianity.
yeah, Protestants seem to have missed the whole "If you forgive them, they shall be forgiven. If you hold them bound, they shall be held bound." thing that Jesus said to Peter.
... because if it isn't this app it will be one of the 200 other ones that iOS developers are busily writing now that they know there's money in it. People are already willing to have intimate relationship with digital entities, avatars of real persons, and people who exist completely in their own imaginations. Why wouldn't they also be willing to confess to some app that talks soothingly to them on their cellphone? The Church is correct to be afraid and I'm interested to see what happens next.
Part of the point of confessing is that it keeps you from doing crazy shit because you know u have to tell the priest that crap eventually. It can help keep you on the straight and narrow.
An iOS app however would feel more like you're announcing stuff to the world and getting attention from an anonymous fan or fans. It's totally different and has the opposite effect.
The Catholic church, though they may be wrong about the existence of a sky God, is correct on this one.
I wouldn't say it's "grandstanding by the Papacy". There was a lot of misinformation going around about the app - a lot of news stories that were flat wrong - and setting the record straight officially and unambiguously makes sense. (I'm hardly a fan of the Catholic Church, but they're not guilty of quite everything they're accused of. :) )
PHEM - party like it's 1997-2003!
Many years ago, I new woman, who was raise Catholic, sorta, but never went to Church as an adult -- except to go to confession. Instead of confessing, she made up stories to get the priest hot. She claimed that some of them would get off listening to her.
yeah, they're different now, but that's one of the reasons the Protestants even exist.
You better watch out, there may be dogs about . .
This is called, "Writing The Rules As You Go". For that matter, why, if you are sincere about repenting of a "Sin" should you need an intermediary in the first place? App or otherwise? That sort of went away with the Old Testament.
Forgive me father, for iHave sinned.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
No, but you've hit the problem on the head. The RC church needs to maintain its "lock in". Instead of having a personal relationship with the Father through the Son, we have various middlemen. Catholics are trained to confess their sins to a priest, who then instructs them to mostly repeat canned prayers to Mary. I'm actually not that opposed to having priest continue the use of the confessional: if some people need to confide their wrongdoing with a trusted role model, that's excellent. But redemption still comes from God, and repentance comes from real works and change, not from repeating canned prayers or praying to deceased humans.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
You could just have a number to text to and have the indulgence added onto your bill. Soon we will have cyberprotestants.
Religious Dogma...
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
This makes me wonder, since the police can take your phone and peruse through it all they want if it is on your person, could "Keeping track of what you have confessed about" be used as an admittance of guilt by Law Enforcement? I know nothing about the specifics the app has, but IE police take your phone and see an entry Confessed about ..."Murder" on 01/18/2011 and raise an eyebrow. Or even that you went to confession shortly after a crime took place you were suspected about, and use it against you.
"I must stress to avoid all ambiguity, under no circumstance is it possible to confess by iPhone."
So doing it with an Android is OK then?
You're right.
I guess this squashes my idea for a "My Virtual Pope" app. At least we can still buy Pope on a Rope... oh wait, it's no longer available.
Liberal? Conservative? Compare perspectives at Left-Right
You are right. I should not have included the "grandstanding" remark. My apologies. I initially interpreted the official statement as attacking this specific app, but that's not what is going on here.
Liberal? Conservative? Compare perspectives at Left-Right
to make iPhone owners repent!
That would require them to use in-app purchasing, and give Apple 30% of each indulgence.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
Or the unrelated, My Virtual Pap Test app - sigh.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
While it could indeed be subject to search and discovery since there is nothing protecting your phone in the same way that a priest cannot be compelled to report everything that is reported to them, there are a lot of rules involved what should be confessed (i.e. how long it's been since your last confession, how many times you cussed, etc) that such an application could be useful for if one was really concerned about that level of detail. However, that's also the sort of information that wouldn't be interesting for any one in law enforcement as such things are usually not illegal.
You do... but only on the Pentecostal version. you admit your sins to it and then slap your self in the forehead with the phone as it says "in the name of jeee....sus..." loudly...
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
hello! /. is better than this!
This is demonstrably false. Slashdot is exactly as bad as this, the proof is that this news article is, in fact, posted on Slashdot.
So this is just grandstanding by the Papacy
This is probably less grandstanding and more of just ignorance. It's clear by the statement that Mr. Lombardi didn't understand the intention of the app. If the Vatican understood that the intention is not to confess to the device but to use it as a tool to aid "real" confessions, then maybe their opinion would be different.
On the other hand, it is probably difficult for anyone to come to that conclusion with news headlines reading, "Can the iPhone forgive your sins?" and "Make confessions through your iPhone" etc...
Fact: Everything I say is fiction.
This is one of those cases where everyone read a headline, misinterpreted this, and then went on to make false statements regarding the story.
1. The app was meant to be an AID to confession. It was never meant to replace confession itself. The app NEVER MADE THAT CLAIM.
2. The Vatican isn't Banning the app, it's saying that the app was never meant to replace confession, see #1.
So, to summarize. The premise that the app was intended to replace confession is false and the other premise that the Vatican banned the app is false.
This Slashdot story, therefore, is a noop.
It doesn't mention priests but James 5:16 is quite explicit about confessing to another person:
"Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective."
I'd say that confession in general is a slowly rising trend among Protestants. The Lutheran church has always believed in it, although it's not as emphasized as it is in Catholic, Orthodox and Anglican/Episcopal churches. It's beginning to be supported among more typically Evangelical churches as well, although the most common suggestion there is to confess to your spouse or a church Elder. Most Evangelical ministers aren't too comfortable with it yet, but many are making a point of getting training (often from Catholics or Lutherans) in that, and agree that it really does require that training to be effective.
Here's one!.
And yes, I do consider Wikipedia to be more reliable than the Catholics. One of these organizations keeps claiming an invisible man is telling me what to do, and coincidentally enough it involves a tithe to the Church!
You better watch out, there may be dogs about . .
Not that it matters to me, but this would suggest that if you were in a location with no priests you would be damned with nothing you could do about it. Sounds like a very loving god.
Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
If you want to take a colder view of the issue, you have to see that there's no donation box outside the iphone. I'd imagine anything that stops people from coming to church physically would be discouraged.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
Ahh but they denounced him within his lifetime. This is sort of their MO isn't it? Quick to denounce, glacially slow at admitting that they shouldn't have. Actually amusing epitaph on this... I looked up this issue, and, not too long before the church admitted its mistake in Galileo, Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict) was actually defending the churches original position!
From Wikipedia:
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
Where does it say in the Bible to confess to the priest? Oh yah it doesn't
Where does it say in the doctrines of the Catholic Church that the faith is based on the Bible alone. "Oh yah", as you say, it doesn't: sola scriptura is a pillar of the Protestant Reformation not held by any of the ancient Christian Churches (the Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Non-Chalcedonian Churches), all of whom hold that Scripture and Tradition are pillars of faith.
Being surprised that people who aren't Protestants don't adhere to key doctrines of the Protestant reformation is, well, somewhat silly.
"... under no circumstance is it possible to confess by iPhone."
Oh?
http://www.cathnewsindia.com/2011/02/08/us-bishop-sanctions-cell-phone-in-confession/
I guess they'll have to go before the Supreme Court to resolve the issue ...
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
Makes sense...iPhones made for texting young boys, not confessing "sins".
Uh, no. That quote bears no resemblance to the scenario you described. I am curious how you got from A to B though.
Forgive me father, for I have sinned, I'm still running 12.1 on my 7206. And my ACL's look like a massacre.
I've seen the light, the lord told me to switch to procurve. Hallelujah
There's no donation box by the confessional in the church either.
But their is guilt telling you to come in Sunday and give during service.
Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
In neither this story nor the previous one announcing the app has anyone mentioned Father Guido Sarducci.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
This sounds great. I have been looking for some new sins. This might give me some ideas. It sounds like a wonderful source of original sins.
When did it become the twenty firth century? Are there going to be 19 clones of Colin Firth also running about making mediocre films and inexplicably moistening ladies' undergarments or something?
Aside from that, your blind prejudice is no better than any other. Sadly, I can't think of any good quips to the effect of "don't be a hypocrite" that aren't derived from some religious text from the top of my head, but I think you get the idea.
Try not to take me more seriously than I take myself.
Amen.
Who knew the church who murdered free thinkers as heretics and forced Galelio to recant when he was demonstrably correct had a soft spot? Oh, right, I remember. No one. Religion is an anachronism. The sooner the poor benighted souls either accept they have nothing to do with scientific advancement and get with the programme, or simply die, the better for all. Religion is a disease. The quest for understanding is the cure.
I was taught at Sunday school that the only intercessor needed between man and God was Christ - it was a personal relationship without the interference of Mary, Rome, Pope or priest.
I wonder if anyone in your church at that time ever asked a friend to pray for them. If so, were they banished from the church for presuming to usurp the role of intercessor?
The essence of confession is not "stating your sins", it's all about regretting them deeply and truthfully. How can you say you truly regret a sin if you can't recall it without help of an app?
45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
Your friends are morons.
The app never made that claim.
Instead of having a personal relationship with the Father through the Son, we have various middlemen. Catholics are trained to confess their sins to a priest, who then instructs them to mostly repeat canned prayers to Mary.
In Catholic theology, the true minister of confession is Jesus Christ. When you confess to a priest, you confess to Christ through the priest. The priest is empowered by Christ to give absolution as He said to His apostles "Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained."
The penances given are a token, to show contrition and the desire to be reconciled.
Redemption still comes from God, and repentance comes from real works and change
This is Catholic theology.
not from repeating canned prayers or praying to deceased humans.
Prayers to the dead are not a source of redemption. Catholics do not ask the saints to forgive their sins. They ask the saints to pray for them.
Really? Because that quote suggests one can only be forgiven by someone ordained with the power to forgive. If no such person exists in your location, how would you be forgiven?
Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
What no Holy Ghost in the Machine?
Are you speaking of some sort of inner feeling of guilt for not having given money? Because the priest in the confessional certainly isn't going to tell you to be sure to bring your wallet to Mass.
The only real sin is still believing in god in the 21th century.
No the real sin is that racism and bigotry still exists in the 21st century. How about you grow up already and live you own damn life? Nobody is holding a gun to your head to believe in god. Your "freedoms" end at the end of your nose.
Or to put it in terms that you might understand, your rights are not superior to the rights of another. Just as I cannot force you to shut up or change your mind about god, in the same way, you cannot force another person to shut up about god or stop believing. You could live a much happier life if you let other people live in peace.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
Anybody who's been paying any attention to this already knows that the app was *never* meant to replace a priest; it was always meant as an aid to the traditional confessional. The Vatican is simply repeating this for the tl;dr folks who skipped over that part.
Ahh but there's a box by each and every door to the building I bet.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
Talking to a smartphone? .. the vatican won't have it .. if it's not telepathic, and it's not done to an invisible 2000 year old zombie Jewish carpenter it just isn't religion.
Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.
- John 20:21-23 (NIV)
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%2020:21-23&version=NIV
Biblical passage conferring the power to forgive or retain sins to the apostles.
And can you imagine my surprise when I found out a CPAP machine had nothing to do with that?
Picture this, I was at a friends house. He his mother (all 80 year old of her) came over and started talking about a CPAP table she needed moved. I was curious to why they had a one (a Pap-smear table) at their house. She said it was little machine and offered to show me how it worked. They talked like it was nothing and I started getting weird'd out. In fact, I was downright disturbed until they told me it was for sleep apnea and asked me what I thought it was. In case you haven't figured it out, I thought it was a gynecologist table for giving pap smears.
Talk about awkward.
Exactly where did he suggest you stop believing in god? You could read his statement many ways. Maybe he thinks such belief is stupid. More likely he believes that such beliefs are harmful to humanity as a whole. I've certainly seen nothing that would convince me otherwise. But that doesn't mean that I think it would be a good idea to prohibit religion or perform forced deprogramming of the religious. If a cure for religion were available in pill form, I would try to make it widely available, but like any treatment for mental illness, it shouldn't be forced unless the believer is a danger to himself or to others.
And I don't know where you're living, but in this country I see a lot of believers that would force belief at gunpoint if they were allowed to do so. That would include about half of the House of Representatives.
Support SETI@home
as a chronic on-again-off-again Catholic
I understand. I have the same problem with smoking.
I've been out of the religion scene for a long long time. However, I do seem to recall that there was only person to whom your sins were to be confessed to, that Christ fellow that the entire religion is allegedly centered around.
This space unintentionally left blank.
So put the blame about this misunderstanding on whoever you want, the Vatican just wanted to make clear they have not and will never allow such a thing.
Perhaps the Vatican was afraid they'd come out with a version 2.0 that would include a "virtual confession" between the confessor and a virtual priest in a chat room, using voice recognition and AI; OR an appointment for a videophone conversation with a priest?
Maybe by God? The actual forgiveness still comes from God. God just says that he will give his forgiveness to those who are forgiven by certain people (ordained priests who are able to validly perform the sacrament). So the only way to be certain in this lifetime that our sins are forgiven is to receive forgiveness from these people. That does not exclude the possibility of forgiveness by God if one doesn't, but you will only find out if you are forgiven after death, when it is too late to change anything.
"It is essential to understand that the rites of penance require a personal dialogue between penitents and their confessor. It cannot be replaced by a computer application. I must stress to avoid all ambiguity, under no circumstance is it possible to confess by iPhone."
What he really means is that by controlling how you interact with god they can control you. Because the clergy are of course soooo holy that only they can speak for god.BR>
Where exactly in the bible does it call for a penitent to confess to a confessor, I seem to recall Jesus going around saying that you don't need a clergy person to connect you with god...
The Catholic church has general absolution masses that substitute for the confessional. You just have to show up, think about your sins, pray, and you're done. No speaking to a priest is required, and he wipes clean everyone's sins at the same time. Is this any different than doing it by iPhone? The priest can just wave his hands once in a while and wipe out the sins of everyone using the app.
they all were lead to think (from their own sources I suppose) that the app was actually used for confessing and getting absolved through it
I could script that, and then go out and have all the fun I wanted!
Godaddy is a scam and a ripoff.
Not even using FaceTime?
I wonder what I could do to get the Vatican to ban my app?
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
Once again, as always, Catholic comments are being totally misconstrued by the media. No one ever said the app was a replacement for confession. The so called 'lowly' priest was saying the app could be an effective tool to help PREPARE for confession. The Vatican does not say anywhere the app is BANNED like the title of this story, they simply are reinterating that the app is not a replacement for confession.
Come on, this is supposed to be a site full of smart people, you can't get this right?
VASIMR to Mars!
Darn. I was really looking forward to reading some of these confessions on WikiLeaks.
I understand that the app was never intended to allow for confession over the iphone, and that the Vatican banned that possibility.
But it would indeed be possible to construct a confessional 2-way "chat room" between confessor and penitent, and there's no reason in my mind why they should not allow it - it could be written to allow the dialogue that the Vatican claims is necessary. I believe that it's inevitable, and that the Vatican will eventually create an offshore call center staffed with priests who "hear" confessions via some text system.
Bl355 me f4ther, 4 i hv 5Innd.
Are you serious? Really? His comparison was hateful. He can believe or not believe whatever he wishes but why did he go out of the way to post in a story that he does not care about? Why did you bother to post? Do you go around attacking the beliefs of other people in "real" life? No? Then why post here?
Your use of hyperbole reveals your bias.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
As if an iPhone could replace a face-to-face confession. Also: That aint Falco!
Simony would seem to be the greatest objection here. Someone is charging $1.99 for a sacrament? That's never been anywhere near acceptable in Catholic teaching.
"The sinful suggestions the app offers are inventive and even age appropriate."
Great, now there's an app to suggest which sin you should commit today!
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
Pope Leo XIII declared Mary as "mediatrix" and "co-Redemptress".
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Not grandstanding, only because the Vatican didn't ban it. This is just a complete misreading of Fr. Lombardi's words. He said it isn't possible to confess by iphone, not that this iphone app purports to allow e-confession and therefore is banned. He was only correcting misconceptions about the app. The app is still allowed, and is not approved by a mere priest but by a bishop, and is not made by priests but by 3 laymen.
Incipiamus, fratres, servire Domino Deo, quia hucusque vix vel parum in nullo profecimus.