Slashdot Mirror
George RR Martin Finishes A Dance With Dragons
Lil'wombat writes "George RR Martin has completed his long awaited conclusion to the A Song of Ice and Fire series. A Dance with Dragons will be published on July 12, 2011. Let the celebrations begin! And everyone was worried that he was going to pull a Jordan."
I don't believe that this is the end... More books in the series are anticipated.
Dance with Dragons is the 4th of 7 planned books. It is not the conclusion to the series.
Too soon?
There are still two more books left.
A Jordan/Bus incident is still VERY possible.
And while the man might be a brilliant writer have you seen his girth? Heart attack is an option too.
A Dance with Dragons is not a conclusion - it's book 5 in a series that is currently expected to run at least 7 books. But then considering that this started out as a trilogy, the final book count is not exactly set in stone.
Uhm, there's one more book, not a conclusion.
First Duke Nukem Forever and now this.
I love this, to be able to dance with the dragon. We need more of this, to be able to dance with the dragon. Dance with dragon, available now so buy, Buy, BUY !! Dance with dragon.
I'll echo someone I read a couple of days ago and say this is the longest wait for half of a book I've ever encountered.
Uh, "if it looks roughly mouse-shaped according to my infra-red sensitive pit, eat it"? --Chris Burke 09-08-10
1) The link says specifically that the book isn't done but it's close enough to done to give it a publication date
2) It's not the series conclusion. It's the 5th of 7 planned books that was originally supposed to be 3 books total :)
I believe it is obvious that Mr. Martin actually had an overall story arc in mind when he first set pen to page in this series. It does not read as though he is just making it up as he goes along, copying and pasting previous story segments while slightly changing the names and circumstances as a shortcut. NO, I do not believe that Mr. Martin had any intention of creating an interminable, never ending cash cow, and then kicking the bucket before penning a finale he never really intended to write.
Was anyone actually worried he would "pull a Jordan?"
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
1. He's not actually done yet, Only a release date has been set. He's not announced he's done.
2. It's not the conclusion to the series.
This is book 5 (originally part of 4, but split out) out of at least 7. He can still pull a Jordan, and at his age and writing pace he probably will.
In other news, Lil'Wombat is a fucking moron.
One can assume the summary writer believes that mortality will necessarily intervene before Martin is able to write the two final books of the series.
According to his own website, GRRM hasn't even finished it yet. I'm not believing anything about this book until I can buy it.
That it's not as disappointing as the last one..
Maybe it's just me, but it seemed like a great departure from his normal style (the bad guys actually think about what they're doing, which makes them interesting), and had the "bad guys" acting like they'd never encountered politics before in their lives.. Just had a few "belief no longer suspended" moments in it..
Hope this one goes back to the old "dark and gritty".. Victories are great and all, but in the earlier volumes, they were earned..
Do you mean not drawing the story to completion in a small number of books, or leaving a series unfinished by PASSING AWAY? I don't know in what sense you meant that phrase but that's kind of offensive, isn't it?
Brian Fundakowski Feldman
I loved the series until the whole Caitlyn-returns-from-the-dead-and-becomes-a-witch-queen incident. That was just ridiculous and smacked of one of his TV scripts. I will still read DWD though ...
Woot. Now I can start to read the others. Been burned too many times with long series. I wait now. :)
The first LINE of TFA says " No. Sorry. Not done yet."
How the hell do you go from that to "hey it's done!"?
I mean come on. Even for Slashdot this is retarded.
-- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
I remember back in the day, as a young man full of optimism and energy, eagerly anticipating the second half of this marvelous novel.
Now at last I might take it in my wrinkled, trembling hands and gaze in wonder through rheumy eyes, ever so slightly before the reaper takes my withered husk from this world!
This program was made possible by a grant from the Ultra-Humanite, and viewers like you.
"No. Sorry. Not done yet.
I'm close, though. Watch this space. When the book is done, you will read it here. "
Last time I checked that statement was pretty definitive, he isn't done yet, but he's close enough to set a release date. At least read the site you link to...
This book has had so many ridiculous setbacks and delays that it's become comical. How many times was book 4 rewritten, only to have become split (and disappointing)? And then it's another six years before book 5, which is simply the other half of book 4? According to him, he's already written some chapters from the next two books. Why? I understand the value of having notes for what's going to happen, but to take the time to write full chapters when your current work isn't finished, and fans are chomping at the bit?
I'll get this one. I've already read the other four books, so I might as well. But I think that the "pulling a Jordan" comment is too soon. I am skeptical we will ever actually see the end to this series. I'd written this one off, but apparently I was wrong. Hopefully that release date sticks, this time.
If you can't convince them, convict them.
And everyone was worried that he was going to pull a Jordan."
There's still two books to go, and Martin is 62 years old. Since it was SEVEN years between "a feast for crows" and "a dance with dragons", he would be 76 at this rate before he finishes. That's beyond the average american lifespan, so yes...a "jordan" is a very real possibility.
I'll echo someone I read a couple of days ago and say this is the longest wait for half of a book I've ever encountered.
Agreed. If you can't see a big "F-U" from Martin between the lines, you aren't paying very close attention. 100% due to Martin and Robert Jordan, I will never, EVER pick up and start reading another book series that isn't completed the day I buy the first one. Screw you guys, screw you all.
While Robert Jordan may have died before he finished the series, I think he and his wife/editor made a good decision in selecting Brandon Sanderson as co-author to complete the final 3 installments. While many people got jaded around books 4-5-6-7 (YMMV), I think Jordan picked up his original style around books 10-11; A Knife of Dreams was fantastic. 12 and 13 were co-authored, but were both excellent works. A Memory of Light is still in the process, but it is expected to be just as good, or better than, the previous two.
So even if GRRM does kick the bucket, if he "pulls a Jordan" that means that he'll have written out enough notes for a solid conclusion to his fictional world and have selected a competent co-author who can finish out strongly. Is that such a worst-case-scenario?
What else can happen when an unstoppable force collides with an immovable object?
Christ, the first line of his comment is that it isn't done.
"No. Sorry. Not done yet."
Why do I care if he wants to play baseball?
It isn't done. It's just 'done enough' that the publishers feels like they should roll out a date. The publisher has, at various times, rolled out dates in the past only to have them be missed. I will believe it when I see it.
Need a Python, C++, Unix, Linux develop
The Book isnt the conclusion of the series
The Book isn't Done yet
This shouldn't have been published.
To be fair, this comment probably sucks too
No. Sorry. Not done yet.
Yes, they've set a date for publishing. But really, let's get the summary right at least.
"Before criticizing someone, first walk a mile in his shoes. Then, you'll be a mile away... and you'll have his shoes."
Meanwhile, Steven Erikson just completed the 10 book Malazan Book of the Fallen series, which is at least the equal of ASoIaF, as of Tuesday with the release of the 10th book. He started the series 4 years after Martin started ASoIaF.
I won't believe it until it actually ships from Amazon. They had a publishing date set years ago, I think they even put it up for pre-order...everything sounded like the book was done and at the printers. Now we find out it STILL isn't really finished?
What's really a shame is I'm just wrapping up re-reading the previous four books in anticipation of the new TV series. We can probably thank that for him finally (hopefully) getting this book finished. The teaser preview for the series sounds good. Hopefully they won't completely and utterly destroy it like they did the Sword of Truth series.
May be a good time to post Neil Gaiman's blog entry on why George R.R. Martin is not your bitch.
WRONG!
This is the second half of part 4 of ASoFaI. He has 3 more books which comprise the 2nd story arc. This story should be pulled as it's just wrong.
Tell me what you believe...I'll tell you what you should see.
may i introduce you to the chtorr?
Media that can be recorded and distributed can be recorded and distributed.
-kfg
I know several people who are very happy about this news, and I admit I actually have no idea who he is or what series this is the next book of. I know, Google is my friend, etc., but what I'm really asking is, and this is the perfect place to ask, "Why should I read this series, especially given that it seems he seems takes an awful lot of time to complete a book". Sounds like he'd give Knuth a run for his money.
I'm honestly not trolling: I'm really interested and am just looking for more subjective information about what this whole series is "about", and what people like about it.
Okay, I'll turn in my geek card now.
"The dragons are coming. Prepare to dance."
may i introduce you to the chtorr?
No shit, been waiting for the Chtorr series to start again for almost FIFTEEN YEARS.
Now on to the punch bowl for refreshments.
You can pre-order it at amazon.com. That's a good sign. However, we've been down that road before, too, with this same book.
None-the-less, I hope it's the real deal this time.
Hi,
i consider the reference to Jordan as bad taste and offensive toward Jordans family. Do you think he intended to die? As a comment, i would have expected such a missstep, but as story this is a very, very low level.
Furthermore: the story belongs to the author and only him. If he decides to take 17 years for the next book (as Tokien did after The Hobbit), one has to wait. I would rather wait in vain, than pushing for a book the author feels not happy with.
Disappointed, Martin
I'm starting to hope that Brandon Sanderson (who is also not my bitch) would finish the series, as he is doing with WoT. Lets hope that GRRM leaves plenty of notes behind.
Sorry for the all caps, but yes, Malazan Book of the Fallen is far superior to Song of Ice and Fire. It's dark, it's gritty, and yet it's redeeming, portrays all the characters as more than one dimensional stock, and manages to include philosophical critiques of the world, religion, philosophy, economics, emotion, and fanaticism of all stripes without breaking stride or tone. It's the only series that has made me care about a couple of villains as well as the heroes. It is simply amazing. Just be warned: to start the series you're going to have to slog through approximately half of "Gardens of the Moon" before you start getting it. Once you do though, you'll be hooked.
Here's to hot beer, cold women, and Glaswegian kisses for all.
The surface comparisons to Jordan are obvious. Both are authors with long histories in the genre before their most famous series; both, currently best known for epic stories set in worlds with a large number of relevant competing factions; both have taken their good, sweet time moving things along in their respective stories. But the stories themselves (so far) evidence a wide gulf in storytelling skill.
I read nine of the Wheel of Time books, though after book five it was sheer momentum. The Wheel of Time series focuses on characters who are painfully stupid, are incapable of learning the most basic lessons about relating to each other, wouldn't know an insightful observation (whether about human motivation or the nature and methodology of the powers they use on a daily basis) if it slapped them in the face, and are constantly tossed about by deus ex machina. Plot threads are created and dropped willy-nilly, and major events, technical magical knowledge, mysterious relics, and prophecies are developed and then dropped entirely for books at a time (or entirely). This was true from the very beginning of the series (mind you, I recall enjoying the first three books quite a bit), but worsened drastically as Jordan wrote himself into a corner. Jordan's strength was in creating a world with an interesting history and political landscape, and he did that rather well. He was somewhat weaker at telling a coherent story.
So far, Martin has told a humdinger of a story. His characters have well-developed motivations, and he's not afraid of killing off major (frequently sympathetic) POV characters when other characters, acting consistently, have outsmarted them, been driven past their limits, given a chance to act selfishly far too good too pass up, or otherwise earned a break. The Song of Ice and Fire world is vast and complex - arguably more so than the Wheel of Time world - yet everything has a payoff. I'm obviously looking forward to the book, and when the series starts airing on HBO, it'll be the necessary and sufficient reason for me to newly subscribe.
Yeah, I'd put the odds at 50/50 that this series will ever be completed and I'm starting to think about the same policy in terms of epic series. I'll wait for the second book - if it comes out within 1.5 years of the first, I'll read it. Otherwise I might not - why read something that might not ever be finished?
And this might be the longest half of a book ever clocking in at 1008 pages!
Reviewing just the first hour of video games.
The vast and sprawling Malazan Book of the Fallen just had its final volume released this week. Say what you will about Erikson - he gets shit done.
He's been upstaged, thank you. I'll avoid picking that one up if I find it on the rack before I'm fifty.
Uh, "if it looks roughly mouse-shaped according to my infra-red sensitive pit, eat it"? --Chris Burke 09-08-10
No, The plan is to have 2 more books after this one:
The Winds of Winter
A Dream of Spring
The whole piece is wrong. It's not finished yet, he just set a publication date.
Please, delete this or edit the news.
I'm a paying customer and I have the right to bitch, complain and moan all I want. I spent money, not to mention time and mental energy, on Martin's books and I certainly wouldn't have done so if I didn't feel that there was at least an implicit promise that he would make a reasonable effort to finish the series and not leave me hanging out to dry with a thousand cliffhangers.
I understand about missing deadlines and writers block and all that. But if you can't write, then at least shut up about it, for Ghu's sake. Don't tease me with updates about writing and the possible finish of the book and then go, "Oh well, didn't finish. Off to Spain for a month".
It's not like I've been hanging around, doing nothing, waiting for the next book to come out. In the time since Feast Of Crows came out I've managed to get married, have a daughter, buy a house and do a lot of other cool and interesting things. Still, I check in on the GRRM site every couple months and I am happy to bitch about the subject when it comes up in conversation or online.
If the HBO series is successful he will be forced to finish the series. He can't very well let the series get ahead of the books. Assuming 1 season = 1 book, I'd say that gives him ~6 years to finish the last two books.
He was going to announce Dance with Dragons over Christmas, but he was in the hospital for a week or two. Since he seems to have a lot else on his plate[ie tv series premieres in a month] this delayed him more than 2 weeks as he needed to find a new free time in his schedule instead of just pushing everything back. But no reason not to believe that this publishing date is real.
and what? Die? That's a tad insensitive even for Slashdot. I know we are all emotionless robots here but come on...
While you were writing that comment, Stephen King just finished and published 18 books. So there!
If you are referring to Cersie, I thought it was very believable. She became psychotic -- it's a real thing that happens to people, including leaders (think Gaddafi), and Martin wrote the character very well.
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
It's more than the second half of Feast of Crows. The first 1/2-2/3[of a 1000 page book] will be concurrent to Feast of Crows, but the rest of the book will be after Feast of Crows[ie stuff always planned to be in book 5]
How about pull a Harlan? Just how's that The Last Dangerous Visions thing coming anyway?
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
And the Tolkien estate sues him for writing fantasy and using two Rs as middle initials.
As several have noted, Dances with Dragons is only the 5th of the projected 7 volumes. The last two are still out there.
I plugged in the values of the publication dates of the series so far into an excel spreadsheet and used the forecast function to predict the final two release dates:
publication history, tossed it into excel, and then used the forecast function to predict the next two release dates.
note - this looked a lot better before my tags were stripped out
# Title Published Days Months Years
1 A Game of Thrones Aug-96 0 0.00 0.00
2 A Clash of Kings Nov-98 822 27.40 2.25
3 A Storm of Swords Aug-00 639 21.30 1.75
4 A Feast for Crows Oct-05 1887 62.90 5.17
5 A Dance with Dragons Jul-11 2099 69.97 5.75
6 The Winds of Winter ? 2668 88.94 7.31 (projected)
7 A Dream of Spring ? 3169 105.63 8.68 (projected)
So plugging that in... We can expect Winds of Winter on the 20th of October in 2018.... And a Dream of Spring on the 24th of July 2027.
"Waste not one watt!" - CZ
I'll see that and raise you The Years of Lyndon Johnson. First volume came out in 1982 and he's not even Vice-president yet.
Oh, come on, GRRM long ago told us "I'm not your bitch", and that he'd finish writing when he was finished writing.
And it probably really only had about half the second half done by the time he published the first, since he'd taken the advice to tie off half the main stories rather than adding half as much to all of them.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
EXACTLY why I refuse to read Stephen R. Donaldson's latest Thomas Covenant series. That jackass can release the last one before I even crack open the first one. I bugged my local SciFi bookstore for ages when I was in high school, waiting for White Gold Wielder.
I'm actually thankful to Robert Jordan for making the later books of the WoT series unreadable, thus saving me from caring about how the series would have ended had he written it.
Why are you letting these clowns ruin our country?
The last book is "The Winds of Winter" if I remember correctly. Also it ain't done yet...he indicated yesterday its close, BUT it ain;t done yet...however he and the publisher have announced a street date based on the fact its ALMOST done.
Power Corrupts,Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely, leaving one person(group)in charge is absolutely corrupt.
Sure, he's added Dragons (which always felt to me like they were just tacked on) and random religions and The Others and lots of good characterization, but a lot of it's basically the Wars of the Roses.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
So it was originally supposed to be a 4 volume set. Then he took book 4 and broke it up into two books, making it a 5 volume set. Now, wikipedia shows SEVEN books. Who does this guy think he is, Robert Jordan?
Yeah, there are The Others, and the dragons, but it's really mostly about character and conflicts, not about magic or even action.
Plus if you start the series now, you have the advantage that you won't have forgotten who most of the characters are by now or which ones of them are Not Dead Yet, which is a problem I had when Volume 4 came out a long time after I'd read Volume 3.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
I see your Gerrold and raise you Tales of the Continuing Time, which I'm still hoping to see completed, dammit.
"$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
That's a series I really wish was finished.
A lot of people will lam-bast him, or defend him... whatever... here's my take on it:
I started reading his incredibly good books 11 (that's ELEVEN) years ago. They were great books! But waiting 5 years for a Feast for crows? I waited till it came out on paperback, got about half way through it and realized there was no point. I didn't remember any of the characters or the plot, and didn't feel like re-reading 4000+ pages just to catch myself up. Now, 17 years after the series started he finally writes the last book. Good for you George. Maybe my kid can read it when he gets old enough. But as for me and a lot of your audience? You lost us a decade ago. You got too involved in other projects, even politics for gods sake.
"conclusion to the A Song of Ice and Fire series"
This isn't the last book, he's planning on two more after this (The Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring).
I'll just reread them myself.
There is some magic, but it isn't so much of a strong force in the world.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
I bugged my local SciFi bookstore for ages when I was in high school, waiting for White Gold Wielder.
HAH, yes! Me too. The funny thing, is I bought "wounded land" on paperback, so it had already been out a while, and I swear I remember waiting FOREVER for "one tree" and then "white gold wielder" to finish the series. I just looked at the wikipedia and it was actually only 2 years between the first two books, then one for the last one. That's nothing these days.
He gets shit done, and he's also a far better writer than Martin.
I'm not knocking Martin, he's a world ahead of Jordan (frankly the world of literature is a better place without him spewing out more shit books) and I'll happily buy that one when it's released.
But the Malazan Book of the Fallen is just by far the best 'fantasy' series I've ever read, by quite a margin.
"Pulling a Jordan" is correct.
It's not that he died, it's that he took what was ANNOUNCED to be a long series, and then decided it was circular rambling time. He has like a 1000 page book, says there will be EIGHT of them, and can't squeeze it in?
No, he was abusing his readers. He intended to write more and more of them until he died, which, given his age, was inevitable. If he had aimed for the eight he had stated, he would have finished the series correctly long before he passed away.
Be thankful that there is a book coming. Also, have any of you complaining morons ever tried to actually write a long form novel?? Have any of you even tried to freaking EDIT a novel?? Thought not.
And now you're missing out, because the Sanderson books have been amazing.
The FIRST one was unreadable. Jordan purely sucked as a writer. And Donaldson is barely tolerable in small doses.
A classic example is the Gormenghast trilogy by Mervyn Peake. The first 2 books, "Titus Groan" and "Gormenghast," are brilliant, unique and well worth a dedicated reading.
Unfortunately the 3rd book, "Titus Alone," was only partially complete when Peake died of Parkinson's. His editor fleshed out the roughest parts and published it, but it is vastly inferior to the previous novels.
Really? I don't read GRRM, but I love WoT, and my experience with it certainly wouldn't put me off reading unfinished series. Sure it sucks if you are left hanging for a long time, but that's just another good excuse to re-read the whole thing when that next part comes out. And if you get a permanent cliff-hanger, well, you should still enjoy what you have. "Eating ramen that tastes really bad can be kind of fun, too"
Climate Progress - Hell and High Water
Two things wrong with this story.
A) he's 62. That's not exactly geriatric yet. Not even retirement age. Hell, he just got married two weeks ago!
B) According to wikipedia there's two more books in that series.
So yeah.... not so much
Same goes for Patrick Rothfuss -- with a 2+ year wait between books, he can bloody well finish the series before I buy another one.
Game of Thrones Clash of Kings Storm of Swords Feast for Crows Dance With Dragons Interminably Long Wait for Six Posthumous Hackjob for Seven. I CAN'T WAIT
You better watch out, there may be dogs about . .
You're an asshole. A big "F U"? Ok. As Neil Gaiman once wrote: George R R Martin is not your bitch.
You better watch out, there may be dogs about . .