Text Messages To Replace Stamps In Sweden

99luftballon writes "Sweden and Denmark are running tests on replacing stamps with text messages. The writer sends a text message to a central server, which bills for the stamp and returns a code to be written on the letter. It's an interesting system but it better have very good security. Could this be the end of stamp collections and philately?"

Comments

Nice to get this from slashdot

[emj]

Kinda makes me wonder if I should read more newspapers here in Sweden.

Re:Nice to get this from slashdot

[qmaqdk]

I'm wondering the same thing here in Denmark.

Re:Nice to get this from slashdot

[Ahhrg]

Why not start with some of the most well known ones? All published a couple of days before ./ Not sure about the printed versions, but DN definitely had the it. DN, Aftonbladet, SvD, Expressen.

Re:Nice to get this from slashdot

[emj]

Your links makes me sad they are just short telegram notices, so I guess I shouldn't feel that bad for missing it even though I get the paper every morning. :-/ Paying so much just to beable to discuss and keep current while getting so little content feels bad, maybe I should spend that money on flattr.com instead.

Re:Nice to get this from slashdot

[ggy]

Why? Everything important will sooner or later appear on /. anyway.

Re:Nice to get this from slashdot

[Menkhaf]

Det blev faktisk dækket af Ing.dk i går aftes: http://ing.dk/artikel/117178-post-danmark-klar-med-sms-frimaerker

Re:Nice to get this from slashdot

[Menkhaf]

I guess it could be considered rude to speak something other than English here, so I'll provide a translation before I get lynched:

"It was actually covered by Ing.dk (online newspaper driven by a big Engineering Association in Denmark) last evening: http://translate.google.com/translate?tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fing.dk%2Fartikel%2F117178-post-danmark-klar-med-sms-frimaerker&act=url "

Re:Nice to get this from slashdot

[AlamedaStone]

I came as fast as I heard, am I too late to make a 'philately on Slashdot' joke?

Okay, here goes:

Philately, on Slashdot? The best you nerds ever get is a Wankel rotary engine.

Re:Nice to get this from slashdot

[rajanala83]

A system like this, operated by the Deutsche Post in Germany, is working since over a year. Works like a charm. Fast & Reliable. Almost, but not entirely, unlike Slasdot editors.

Re:Nice to get this from slashdot

[PopeRatzo]

I guess it could be considered rude to speak something other than English here

It's considered rude to speak something other than English anywhere.

Re:Nice to get this from slashdot

[Menkhaf]

Det siger du jo bare fordi du ikke selv kan forstå andet end engelsk... :)

Re:Nice to get this from slashdot

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, your spelling sucks.

Re:Nice to get this from slashdot

[omglolbah]

Komisk nok kan jo mye av det som står skrevet her knapt nok kategoriseres som "engelsk" og mer "bokstavrører skrevet av fulle lemmen".

(Norwegian :p)

Re:Nice to get this from slashdot

[nospam007]

It's just for the casual user who never knows where he put his stamps, since he sends only a letter every couple of years nowadays.
For business it's old news.

"In 1999 Stamps.com became the first organization to be licensed by the United States Postal Service to print valid postage from a traditional PC printer. Their system allows the user to automatically download and print postage directly onto an envelope or "Netstamp""

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Postage_meter#Internet-_and_stamp_based_meters

Re:Nice to get this from slashdot

[cowboy76Spain]

Se callen, coño :-P

Re:Nice to get this from slashdot

[dominious]

It's considered rude to speak something other than English anywhere.

Umm... We disagree.

Signed
Rest of the World (minus UK, US, AU) !

Re:Nice to get this from slashdot

[tehcyder]

Who sends actual letters ;-)

People who use stamps.

Re:Nice to get this from slashdot

[Jake Griffin]

Doesn't "almost" imply "not entirely"? Just sayin... :-P

Re:Nice to get this from slashdot

[davester666]

This will have no affect on Phil continuing to be late...

Re:Nice to get this from slashdot

[VJ42]

minus UK, US, AU

I take it you've never been to Wales, Scotland, other parts of Scotland, Northern Ireland or Even parts of England.

The whole country doesn't speak English, so it's not rude here either. Hell, even when speaking English in England; you get a choice of dialects. And it's not just those three countries where English is an official language; Of course those other places also speak English in their own way

Re:Nice to get this from slashdot

[dominious]

sorry, I meant EN.

Re:Nice to get this from slashdot

[Creepy]

Well if they try it in the US, I lynch someone at the post office.

Why? Because Verizon wants to leech $20/Month ($30 for family) for text messaging, and I choose to pay by the message ($1 each for sending OR receiving). I need to use text messaging about 3-5x a year at most (I have people send text messages to my email, and my phone bings when I get email, so having SMS/MMS is pointless - especially since most phone SMS/MMS can use an email addy instead of the phone #).

I would suddenly be paying $2.44 instead of $.44 per postage stamp ($1 to send a text, $1 to receive one), which is silly talk. The people that would lose the most from this? Charities. Why? Because I got my credit card number stolen not once, but twice by charitable donations and will only give them money by check now. I actually found this out myself from the credit card companies sending me proof-of-purchase and recognizing things that were amiss - for instance, one used a credit card I'd only used for that charity and nothing else (a rarely used card), and another used a credit card without the CCV and verification ID was email and phone, and they used my cell phone, and a fake gmail account... but only my university knows that combo, and I had recently donated.

Speaking of gmail, they now require an SMS/MMS message and won't do a phone call anymore for registration. Since they don't support SMS to an email address, it now costs me a buck if I want a new gmail address (I wanted to register one for sites I don't trust to not sell the address to spammers - $1 was too lame though, so I set up a private email server on my own site).

Re:Nice to get this from slashdot

[PopeRatzo]

Umm... We disagree.

Signed
Rest of the World

Since when did Americans care if you "disagreed"?

Re:Nice to get this from slashdot

[protactin]

True, although it costs 40 cents more - plus the cost of an SMS - than buying a regular stamp.

Re:Nice to get this from slashdot

[icebraining]

The phrase is actually "almost, but not quite, entirely unlike X" (an yes, it's slightly redundant, but that's just a device to emphasize). "Almost unlike Slashdot editors" makes no sense, since it means that it's in fact like Slashdot editors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrases_from_The_Hitchhiker's_Guide_to_the_Galaxy#Not_entirely_unlike

Re:Nice to get this from slashdot

[Jake Griffin]

Ah, I see. I missed the reference. Thanks for that. I still think that "almost entirely unlike X" makes more sense, because "almost" and "entirely" are both necessary here, but "almost" and "not quite" are redundant. However, now that I know it's a reference to Hitchhikers, that point is moot :-P

Good luck with that

[mwvdlee]

The code has to be a certain length in order to be unique, it has to be complex enough to take a while to crack, but write down one digit wrong (or slighly unreadable) and the code is invalid.

Re:Good luck with that

[rastilin]

Yeah, there are a few downsides. On the other hand it's more efficient than possibly losing stamps or not being able to send a letter in time because you have to detour to get more stamps. Personally my biggest problem is that it requires yet another centralized server and the phone system. When we lose power; the local stores can still accept cash, unless they keep printing stamps, there won't be a fallback like that here.

Re:Good luck with that

[Anonymous Coward]

It's already proven technology here. The facts speak for themselves. You can buy subway, train, and bus tickets via SMS here, and it works pretty well. I don't see how applying the same concept to mail could go wrong. No one is going to be writing the numbers down, instead people will just show their cell phone screen to the post office agent, who will then type in the code in their system and validate it. Think of it as a unique barcode, like the ones you get on e-tickets when you fly, or when you buy tickets for a concert.

It has to be complex enough to crack? I'm not following you on this, though. The only possible thing that migh thappen is having someone looking at your cell phone screen and using your code, but I suppose that's unlikely.

I welcome this change. It's going to make things much more practical.

Re:Good luck with that

[i-linux123]

Also, who sends letters?

People that can't affort sending signed documents with UPS each time. You also send other things through the post office, such as Internet purchases etc. so they're already doing delivery of items, it's just of varying sizes from mail to packages.
So I don't see the post office going away anytime soon.

Re:Good luck with that

[physicsphairy]

Write down one number of the address wrong and your letter is also "invalid" in the sense of going to someone else. If anything I would imagine less error for copying down numbers (which you will presumably double-check) rather than sloppily dumping something out of your personal memory. The code doesn't need to be any more "complex" than a credit card number, which is basically the function it's serving (except more secure since it is one-time use). I am not sure how much effort the criminal industry is going to expend in sniffing out postal codes at $0.50 value... they might be better off jumping kids' for their lunch money.

Re:Good luck with that

[seifried]

Uhmm. Unless the power/phones are out for over a day the inherent delays in sending physical mail will vastly outweigh the time you spend waiting to get a "stamp". Personally I like what we have in Canada, "permanent" stamps, they're good forever. http://www.canadapost.ca/cpo/mc/personal/productsservices/atoz/permanentstamp.jsf. So no worry about needing to buy those one penny or whatever stamps the next time rates go up.

Re:Good luck with that

[the_olo]

"take a while to crack"? How do you exactly imagine performing cracking in this context? Cracking a code in the way you imply (brute force?) involves lots of attempts.

When faced with interactive network login, this is feasible - the attempts are cheap, you can automatically perform millions of login attempts at practically no cost.

In this context, you'd have to send millions of identical physical letters until one gets through. How do you imagine going that? Getting a truck of blank letters, using an army of printers and robots to fill them in and pack and throw into mail boxes? You'd have to distribute your attack among thousands of geographically distributed post offices, otherwise you'd overwhelm the one, the mailbox would immediately overflow.

We're talking of physical reality. Brute force cracking attacks are mostly tied to the domain of virtual stuff unless you're talking about really short codes (like 2 digit code, or, in the case of e.g. suitcase locks, 3/4 digits). I doubt they make the codes so short here.

About getting one digit wrong - you can always make the code somewhat redundant, making use of error correction codes.

Re:Good luck with that

[Anonymous Coward]

Pre-printing envelopes with individual QR codes that you scan with your phone and then send to the central server to activate that QR code as postage would seem to be an easier solution for the consumer.

Re:Good luck with that

[aliquis]

Except you used to leave letters in a box, not at a post office.

Not that I see much purpose for sending letters at all nowadays. Regardless we kinda don't have any post offices longer either, just "service offices" at random stores and what not but I guess you could leave the letters there.

But if you have to go there with the letter and show the SMS it's not that much different from buying a stamp. Somewhat more convenient but not as convenient as dropping in the box I guess.

Re:Good luck with that

[aliquis]

Also, who sends letters?

The government.

Re:Good luck with that

[AlecC]

But then you have to stock different sizes of envelope. How about pre-printing a small sticky label representing the amount paid which you attach to the envelope of your choice? Can I patent that idea?

Re:Good luck with that

[rolfwind]

Certified Mail is highly useful for legal matters.

My parent's ebay business is only viable because of USPS.

Re:Good luck with that

[PhilHibbs]

They could use a subset of the alphabet containing characters that are hard to confuse with each other, e.g. if they use C then they should not use G, same for B and D, O and Q. So even if you only have, say, a 16 letter alphabet, a 5 character code has a million possibilities. Make it a 10 character code and you could even include redundancy to cope with a single character being illegible.

Re:Good luck with that

[narcc]

Pre-printing envelopes with individual QR codes that you scan with your phone and then send to the central server to activate that QR code as postage would seem to be an easier solution for the consumer.

How is that an easier solution for the consumer? Rather than needing a common dumb-phone, the user would need a smartphone with a camera, QR code software, and the knowledge to put it all together.

It seems like your pre-printed QR code system would only benefit the automated machinery at the post-office.

Besides, if you were planning to go through all the trouble to pre-print codes on the envelopes, why not just add the cost of postage to the cost of the envelopes and skip the whole 'activation' bit?

Better yet, since we're printing things, why not print a whole bunch of codes on a large sheet instead of on individual envelopes? Just Image: If you perforate the sheet and add an adhesive backing, the customer need only tear off one of the "tokens" and stamp it to an inexpensive envelope.

To save some extra cash, instead of unique codes (and a monstrous computer system to keep track of them all), we could make all the "tokens" uniform. Like a picture -- We could even have more than one. For security, we could add some luminescent ink or micro-printing.

If your token pictures are interesting enough, I'll bet you'll have people buying whole sheets every time you issue a new image just to collect them. That's basically free money.

Yes, I think that's a much better idea.

Re:Good luck with that

[AC-x]

The code has to be a certain length in order to be unique, it has to be complex enough to take a while to crack, but write down one digit wrong (or slighly unreadable) and the code is invalid.

Do you actually have a source for any of that?

Code length - it doesn't have to be a GUID, they could easily recycle codes after a year or so once used. The public cycle hire here in London makes do with daily 5 digit codes made up of just 1, 2 or 3.

Complexity - has to take a while to crack? What's to crack, some super secret code?? You may as well just create a random text string and store that in a database along with the payment information.

Invalid codes - or maybe they could just come up with a fault tolerant code.

All in all I think this is a great idea and I hope they introduce it to England some time (you can already buy postage online but you've got to print out a barcode to tape to your package)

Re:Good luck with that

[Seumas]

I have no faith in the USPS and would never use them to send an important document. Especially one that I needed signed, guaranteed to be delivered by a certain date, or even proven that it was delivered. I know that USPS does offer some or all of these services (for a price), but I simply don't find them reliable enough. With UPS or FEDEX, I never have any concern about whether my delivery will be made when I want it and with a signature. Also, it's not all that expensive (unless you're sending it over night). It's maybe 20% more to ship by UPS than USPS, but in my experience, it's definitely worth it.

The USPS is still an incredible deal if you are sending a letter, for certain. You can't really beat 40 or 50 cents to get a letter across the entire country within only a few days. On the other hand, you can't beat email, so that's becoming an outdated service. Even at 50 cents. I'm not in Sweden, so I can only speak for this from the perspective of the USPS and it may be an entirely different situation over there (though, apparently, a more advanced one, if only a bit).

By the way, the best way to make sure I won't buy an item from your store or your auction? Tell me I can only get it by USPS. One of the most aggravating things is when I buy something, say, from Amazon. Only to find that the item was actually fulfilled from an Amazon *partner*... and that they sent it by USPS, instead of a courier service. Seriously pisses me off.

Re:Good luck with that

[Seumas]

In town? A messenger service (taxi companies also provide this, too). To another city, state, or country? UPS/FedEx. If I had twenty blueprints to send somewhere, I'd say it's safe to assume I'm doing it for some form of business and that it was needed in a timely fashion and with both guaranteed delivery and confirmed delivery. It wouldn't even be a question, for me, as a business organization.

It seems that the USPS is having a real hard time finding special niches where it can still fit in and provide a service that isn't already provided by private industry without government subsidies or oversight.

By the way, why don't I find the USPS reliable? Well, they use a measuring system for reliability that scores them at 90%, but they won't actually publically release any information on what is delivered, lost, or stolen. I do recall some watchdog (CATO, maybe?) accused them of losing over a billion items per year. I've also never heard of stories about UPS or FedEx as I have the USPS. You know, stealing Netflix CDs. Finding tens of thousands of letters and packages in a postal carrier's home. Finding mail thrown away rather than delivered, etc.

Re:Good luck with that

[_Stryker]

And in the US we have the Forever Stamp.

Re:Good luck with that

[indeterminator]

The code can be just a totally random shared secret (the server generates it and remembers it until it's been used). You would need to send a letter for each cracking attempt, but not get any closer to crack it. You would just have some probabilistic chance to get your letter delivered free. The code just needs to be a long enough number, so that guessers have low enough chance of success not to ruin the mail services's finances. My guess is, anything under 1/100 would be tolerable.

Code errors can be helped to some extent by use of error-correcting code. Or if the codes are just random, accept it if someone gets close enough.

Re:Good luck with that

[M8e]

Besides, if you were planning to go through all the trouble to pre-print codes on the envelopes, why not just add the cost of postage to the cost of the envelopes and skip the whole 'activation' bit?

We already have those in Sweden.
Padded envelopes for max 2kg, and normal envelopes for max 100g.
http://www.posten.se/m/kuvert

Re:Good luck with that

[Kjella]

You have no idea how often people would get their credit card number wrong if there wasn't a) a check digit and b) if it fails, you get an instant response. Mail typically gets there even if you typo the zip code as the postal office will typically work it out as long as the street and city is correct. Or if you misspell the street. Obviously they don't know what house number you live in, but the mail service is pretty forgiving.

Typo the payment code? You'll never know until the recipient gets it with an "invalid postage code, please pay up or return this letter/package unopened to the post office". That's pretty inconvienient all around.

Re:Good luck with that

[Another, completely]

No one is going to be writing the numbers down, instead people will just show their cell phone screen to the post office agent, who will then type in the code in their system and validate it.

I do send letters from time to time, and I practically always put them in a postbox on the street, having bought packs of stamps previously. If I were going to go into a post office, why wouldn't I just give the post office agent cash? Where is the advantage in a purchase over the phone? For a train ticket, you might be concerned about the time (arriving at the station with just enough time to make the train, and not wanting to fiddle with a ticket machine). At the post office, whether you deal with a person or a machine, why would it be easier to use the interface on your phone than the human agent or the special-purpose interface provided by the post office machine?

Re:Good luck with that

[Candid88]

Of course, because you don't use snail mail much, why would anyone else in the world ever want to?

Re:Good luck with that

[Candid88]

Convenience and usability is key, and SMS currently wins by many miles.

SMS is going to be around for a long time yet.

Re:Good luck with that

[Svippy]

Except you used to leave letters in a box, not at a post office.

Not that I see much purpose for sending letters at all nowadays. Regardless we kinda don't have any post offices longer either, just "service offices" at random stores and what not but I guess you could leave the letters there.

But if you have to go there with the letter and show the SMS it's not that much different from buying a stamp. Somewhat more convenient but not as convenient as dropping in the box I guess.

Who said anything about not being able to use postboxes? I mean, wouldn't it be the same issue if you posted a letter without stamps or correct amount of stamps as posting a letter without or with an incorrect code? Your letter will either just get returned or trashed.

Re:Good luck with that

[aliquis]

Who said anything about not being able to use postboxes?

No one is going to be writing the numbers down, instead people will just show their cell phone screen to the post office agent, who will then type in the code in their system and validate it.

For bus tickets they don't even validate anything. You just get a message more or less saying "oh you've purchased a ticket this date and this time", so you can easily forge it yourself if you wanted to.

Re:Good luck with that

[physicsphairy]

Credit card numbers are kind of terrible to begin with, though. Assuming these postal codes codes use both letters and numbers (not case sensitive) we have already eliminated 6 characters from the total number that have to be typed in to generate the same size namespace,* and greatly reduced the probability of confusing repeated characters.

The postman could just as easily check your code when he picks up the mail (thank you portable electronics) as at the post office.. In any case he should attempt to return it to the sender rather than the recipient if there is an invalid code as writing a code at all should indicate that the sender intended to pay the postage his or her self.

I admit, of course, that self-printed barcodes would be better, both for readability and efficiency. However, printers are notoriously unreliable and not everyone has one. If all the post office wants to do is force a seemless migration from everyone using stamps to everyone using something simple and 'digital', I think this fulfills the purpose.

My biggest complaint is the loss of the ability to send things anonymously.

*this is wholly unnecessary: you only need the name space to be an order of magnitude larger than the expected number of outbound parcels at a given moment, and you'll be golden by an order of magnitude. reusing numbers is fine. it doesn't even matter if you have multiple of the same number in circulation as long as you are aware of it and it is not so frequent that it becomes easy to count on. (keep in mind, too, that the sender incurs a certain cost to send a physical piece of mail and also has to physically transfer it at some point--can they get away with dropping off a hundred envelopes every day hoping one of them is correctly coded? even for high number of collisions... probably not. \)

Re:Good luck with that

[mwvdlee]

I meant "cracking" as in "cracking the algorithm".
If the codes were generated by an algorithm, it would be possible to discover the algorithm and generate valid codes.
Brute force is obviously not a reasonable option, so why you would jump to that conclusion instead of the far more obvious and usable alternative is beyond me.

Re:Good luck with that

[chrb]

write down one digit wrong (or slighly unreadable) and the code is invalid.

Not necessarily true. I would assume that they built some redundancy in to the actual code. Also, who says that the code is numeric? I would assume it is alphanumeric, as the OCR systems are already capable of reading alphanumeric addresses etc.

Re:Good luck with that

[0100010001010011]

Swedes also use SMS to do their taxes too.
http://www.protexting.com/The_Swedes_use_SMS_to_file_taxes_in_Sweden-faq-133.htm

Now. Where are my picket signs so I can go announce how much socialism sucks.

Re:Good luck with that

[Retron]

We invented those in the UK 20 years ago, they've called Non-value Indicator stamps and they're responsible for the end of seeing different stamps on letters every month: these days it's just a generic "2nd" and the Queen's head.

Re:Good luck with that

[Chris Mattern]

In the US as well, they're called "Forever" stamps.

Re:Good luck with that

[Timmmm]

You'll have a long list of useless used codes. And junk mail generally isn't stamped.

Re:Good luck with that

[Timmmm]

Sounds like you've never heard of forward error correction. And if they implement this using completely random codes, it would be impossible to 'crack'.

Re:Good luck with that

[Electricity Likes Me]

I'm not fully up to speed here, but couldn't the returned code be made letter redundant in some fashion with Reed-Soloman coding? That's designed to deal with bursts of errors, so presumably you could align the code so 1 or several mis written letters wouldn't wipe out the code's meaning?

As to length: I'm not sure it's problem. Individuals aren't sending that many letters, and the convenience of not needing to buy stamps to do it would be pretty high. For organizations, I'd expect they'd largely print the code after requesting it electronically.

Re:Good luck with that

[tepples]

If the codes were generated by an algorithm, it would be possible to discover the algorithm and generate valid codes.

You know the algorithm. You don't know the private key.

Re:Good luck with that

[elsJake]

Something like say , i dunno , a stamp? Brilliant ideea!

Re:Good luck with that

[qc_dk]

Well, my experience is that the Danish postal service is pretty forgiving about the payment too. I'd forgotten to put a stamp on a letter, so I got a letter from the post office with a photo of the letter proving that there was no stamp on it. They reminded me to put one on in the future, but they would deliver the letter at no charge this time.

Re:Good luck with that

[shawb]

You really think someone is going to spend the effort and legal liability of cracking a government code just to save $4 on 10 letters? Especially once people start getting denied because the same person sent out 10 letters over and over. Besides... easy fix. Put the address you are sending to in the message, keep that in a database and compare once the letter actually comes in.

Re:Good luck with that

[shawb]

At that point you just pre-print the postage right on the envelope, and pay for it when buying envelopes.

Re:Good luck with that

[_0xd0ad]

Truly random numbers will cause collisions once in a great while

That's not a problem if you select a number randomly from the set of numbers not already in the database.

I.e. pick a random number and if it collides, repeat until you find one that doesn't.

there's a chance the implementation will pick a "random" number by a deterministic algorithm. Enough datapoints to determine the PRNG state, and you can predict the next ten codes that will be issued

That would require a lot of data points and a fairly high level of knowledge of the specific pseudo-random number generator that was used. Anyone with that level of access could probably just easier find a way to run a few codes off while bypassing the payment system.

Re:Good luck with that

[AndrewNeo]

Actually, while Google Voice supports SMS, it does not support shortcodes, or premium SMS services. So that wouldn't work here. :(

Re:Good luck with that

[rabtech]

The code has to be a certain length in order to be unique, it has to be complex enough to take a while to crack, but write down one digit wrong (or slighly unreadable) and the code is invalid.

It does need to be unique but you are incorrect about the other requirements.

The code can include parity such that it can be deciphered even with an incorrect digit. Just off the top of my head: I presume you would only use one of any potentially confusing character sets (eg: number 1 but not L or I (capital i); zero, not the letter O; etc). Then you'd need to figure out a distribution of bits that allowed you to reconstruct an original code if one or two characters are off... for example, let's say each character represents three bits of the original number then three bits of its inverse position in the code (so the first character has the first three bits and the last three bits of the code; if they flub the last character you can still get those bits from the first character). I'm not saying this is a really good system, I'll leave designing that to the experts... I'm just saying it is entirely possible to design.

The other thing is the code doesn't need to be uncrackable... you simply have a large space of codes and have your master database pick codes at random out of this possible space. At that point someone can certainly generate new codes all they want but they will have the same problem as generating fake credit card numbers: If that number isn't marked in the database as a valid code (tied to a valid purchase transaction) then it will not be accepted.

All of this leaves aside the main issue: Your name & address is most likely going to be in the return address portion of any letter or package! The OCR software can scan that and match it to the purchaser of the code. Too many mismatches from the same address and maybe you can flag it for further investigation. Too many letters without return addresses using suspect codes at the same post office or sorting facility and that greatly narrows your range of investigation.

Re:Good luck with that

[the_olo]

If the codes were generated by an algorithm, it would be possible to discover the algorithm and generate valid codes.

You know the algorithm. You don't know the private key.

Not even necessarily that. They may securely, randomly generate codes and store them in their database for validation. No key, no derivation, the code is a completely random value.

In such a case, the only possible attack would be against their database.

Re:Good luck with that

[DavidTC]

Why the hell would junk mailers use SMS codes?

I'm not Swedish, but I presume over there junk mail uses automated stamping machines and pay the post office in bulk, just like all businesses do in America.

Even if they don't, surely they'd just buy stamps and use them.

This system is for people who have to mail out two checks, and one letter to the single person on the planet without email, once a month and can never find any stamps on hand. No one who sends more than ten letters a week would possibly use this system instead of going to the post office and buying a roll of stamps.

Re:Good luck with that

[DavidTC]

The OCR systems aren't as good as people think. It's not reading the whole address.

They mainly read the postal code (In the US, it's called a ZIP code, don't know about Sweden.), and then sanity check the city and state against it, allowing a rather high margin of error on those. It reads 10101, looks up the name 'Cityville MN' in the DB, sees 'C1tvvllle NN', shrugs, figures close enough, and sends it along.

Once it gets to the right post office, the machines try to sort it by carrier route, but it doesn't work as well as people think unless the extended zip is there. (The extended zip is actually the carrier route) Luckily, letter carriers look at each handwritten address before going out.

Re:Good luck with that

[tehcyder]

Also, who sends letters? I communicate with colleagues, friends, and family by phone, IM, email, and video phone. I send and receive packages via UPS and FEDEX. I pay bills via my bank's bill pay. I write checks via my bank's automatic check writing/sending service. The only thing I get in the mail are tax documents and junk mail.

Birthday cards? Christmas cards? Valentine's Day cards? Also, lots of people still pay bills by posting cheques, at least here in the UK.

Re:Good luck with that

[VJ42]

Well, my experience is that the Danish postal service is pretty forgiving about the payment too. I'd forgotten to put a stamp on a letter, so I got a letter from the post office with a photo of the letter proving that there was no stamp on it. They reminded me to put one on in the future, but they would deliver the letter at no charge this time.

The UK postal service is quite forgiving now too, a shame because they used to have special stamps that they would put on the letters\parcels to charge the person who received the item if there was no return address; stamp collectors used to post unstamped mail to themselves in order to get them.

Re:Good luck with that

[shermo]

thatsthejoke.jpg

Re:Good luck with that

[Kaz Kylheku]

The code has to be a certain length in order to be unique, it has to be complex enough to take a while to crack, but write down one digit wrong (or slighly unreadable) and the code is invalid.

Firstly, note that stamps are not particularly secure against duplication (compared to, say, paper money). The benefit from counterfeiting stamps is small.

It's not hard to think of a scheme which uses relatively short codes which are hard to forge, especially if you have the luxury of maintaining a database.

When you receive the txt message, you create a database record out of various bits of information, including the date and some random ID. Digest the info by applying a digital signature, and take some bits from the signature to produce the code to be put on the letter.

The code is long enough that the space of valid codes is significantly smaller than the space of possible codes.

Give the user a month to use the code, after which it expires (the database object is destroyed). Expiring the codes keeps the space of valid codes small. Furthermore, when mail is processed, the object is also destroyed, or marked as invalid. (Analogous to stamping across a stamp).

Guessing a valid code is impractical. If the space of valid codes is 100X smaller than the space of possible codes, then you would have to send 100 pieces of correspondence with a guessed code just to get one piece through. If you think this is cheaper than just paying for postage and sending one copy, knock yourself out!

There is no scheme to crack because nothing you can do, short of breaking into the server, will cause a given code to exist in the database. The challenge is not of cracking the generation method, but of guessing, with a high probability, valid codes (that someone else paid for).

Furthermore, codes could be tied to location. To produce a code, you might have to enter your postal code, and the code might only be usable from drop-off locations in that postal code. So you have to not only guess a code that is valid *somewhere* in Sweden, but one that is valid for nearby post boxes.

Come to think of it, why is this a text message based scheme? So it can be mobile. What's the advantage of that? Well, look. You could go to a particular post office box where you want to drop off the mail. That post office box could have a special code. You would have to enter that code into your texted request to the server. The server would send you back a code which is tied to that post office box: you must write that on your letter and put the letter into that box only.

How big does a code have to be that is valid for one box only? That is valid only for a single collection round from that box? Four digits maybe? Five at most?

Re:Good luck with that

[Svippy]

Forging the SMS-tickets can get you 1 year in prison for document forgery. And bus drivers never validate regular tickets anyway, it is not really their job, but they can of course deny you if they suspect you of not having a ticket or correct one. But conductors on trains (and sometimes on busses) can validate the tickets, since they contain a validation code.

Re:Good luck with that

[aliquis]

But it isn't a document? =P

You don't even need to send the actual SMS. I've always wondered "how hard can it be to create an application for whatever smartphone/the iPhone which looks exactly the same like the SMS and with current date and around-now time?"

We don't have any regular tickets. It's pre-paid month card, x travels card or x cash card or SMS tickets.

Or well, I think you can buy tickets outside the buses actual, didn't thought of that, I don't know if anyone really does.

So either you get to this machine, pay say 20 SEK and get a ticket. Or you send an SMS and get a "text based ticket" in return, or you use your bank card (no cash allowed on the buses thanks to our thankful immigrant robbery youth) to fill a bus card with whatever value.

Yeah, I don't know how it would work if you get checked. But I guess they would just like to see the info to make sure you haven't walked in using the back door so I doubt they would notice a forge.

Re:Written?

[emj]

All mail is already sorted automatically in Sweden, every postofficer gets a bundle with the mail he is to deliver that day. Sure there are lots of mail that can't be sorted automatically, but not really that much of an issue.

The end of anonymous snail mail

[Anonymous Coward]

is what it is. There are a few US organizations that are doing good work for the country but that I'd rather not be entangled with in terms of tracking databases (I'm not particularly thinking of wikileaks, but that general idea). So I'm not going to respond to their requests to donate to them by paypal or send them a check. Instead I occasionally put a carefully wrapped ten dollar bill in an envelope, stick on a postage stamp, and send it to them with no return address. That's what Sweden (which is still trying to extradite Assange on very dubious charges) is trying to eliminate. It creeps me out.

Fraud

[StripedCow]

Just wait until a postman copies the code to a package of his own, and just destroys the original package.

Re:Fraud

[benjamindees]

If Kevin Costner has taught us anything, it's that postmen are weasely bastards who cannot be trusted.

Re:Fraud

[91degrees]

That's quite a high risk for few krona worth of postage.

Re:Fraud

[seifried]

or he just cuts the stamps off and glues them to his package. Exact same problem we have now potentially. I can't imagine it's a real issue (postmen thieving stamps off of packages and then destroying them to send their own packages for free.... uh yah).

Re:Fraud

[robinvanleeuwen]

Just wait until the postman strips the stamps of your mail and glues them on his own package and destroys yours!!!

Re:Fraud

[nickruiz]

Just wait until a postman copies the code to a package of his own, and just destroys the original package.

If I were designing such as system, I would encode the string with information about the end address, the timestamp of the text message, the identity of the sender (based on text messaging registration and phone number), and the ID of the transaction. If the "stamp" is unique to the transaction and sender/recipient, then I think that it would be fairly difficult to spoof (unless you had the person's SIM card).

Overall, I think it's an interesting alternative to stamps.

Re:Fraud

[Per Wigren]

Just wait until a postman steal your stamps and kill your children! We must stop using stamps, think of the children!!!

Re:Fraud

[3.14159265]

The code could be a function of the sender's address, the receiver's address, and the date of issue, and...
That could keep the codes short, unique enough, and easy to validate.

Re:Fraud

[Tsunayoshi]

Or as the local radio station pointed out this morning...just go to someone's mailbox, pull out all of their outgoing mail and use their codes on your letters.

Re:Fraud

[Asic Eng]

If you have postmen so corrupt they destroy packages in order to get stamps ... you have a much bigger problem at your hands. Besides - any postman emptying a postbox has this possibility right now. Even without leaving a trace, unlike in your scenario where the number might be known by the person whose package was destroyed.

Re:Fraud

[maxume]

Coding the stamp to the addresses requires the user to key in the addresses, killing much of the convenience.

Re:Fraud

[nickruiz]

Coding the stamp to the addresses requires the user to key in the addresses, killing much of the convenience.

This is less of an inconvenience as more people are using smart phones with more functional address books. The right app could just export the address into an SMS or an encoding of the address that's understandable by the postal service. Alternately, a user could enter a postal code (and possibly a contact name) to isolate the range of the address. In the US, that could be a Zip+4, but Sweden does a similar thing with their 5 digit codes.

Re:Fraud

[tunabomber]

This is avoidable with a well-engineered system. To make it difficult for a scammer to generate a viable code, they could require that the user supply some information specific to the package, such as the destination zip code and the date that it is being mailed. Then, the postal service could concatenate this info with a short randomly-generated package ID and sign it with a private key to generate a code.
The post office could then verify whether the code matches the characteristics of the package of itself. If there is ambiguity in the way the code is written on the package (say, a character that could not be completely discerned) the system could come up with multiple possibilities for syntactically valid codes and then attempt to verify each one and use the first one that matches.
If the generated codes are made of a limited alphanumeric charset instead of just digits, they should be able to carry enough information that the system can both be forgiving to human error and robust against attackers.
Also, with any system it would be possible to build a phone app that would let the user verify a newly-written code just by taking a picture of it with their phonecam.

Re:Fraud

[tunabomber]

Ok, I guess the postman (or anyone else) could just find a new package with the same destination zip code as his package in order to defeat my suggested system. Their are further measures that could be taken to prevent this, such as incorporating an account number that is associated with a specific sending address in the code and maintaining a database of all packages sent during the day to prevent a code from being used twice in the same day.

Also, what 91degrees said. Scamming the postal service is a lot of risk for little gain.

Re:Fraud

[rabtech]

Just wait until a postman copies the code to a package of his own, and just destroys the original package.

How is that any different than my current postman cutting the unmarked stamp off my envelope, throwing it away, then gluing that cutout onto his letter? (Hint: it isn't).

People generally find out when their letters don't arrive so its not like you can hide that sort of crime very easily. Risking prison to save on a postage stamp seems like the height of stupidity... I'd prefer any moron of that caliber try it immediately so we can quickly identify them and remove them from society.

Short Version: For your first felony, I highly suggest not putting your name & address on it and sending it through the mail.

Re:Fraud

[Hooya]

In some third world countries, if you're mailing anything international via the postal service, it's very advisable to stand in line and get the stamps stamped in front of you instead of dropping your envelop into the mailbox. Because of the (relatively) high cost of international postage, it is worthwhile for the postmen there to peel off the stamps, throw away your envelop, and re-sell the stamps if the stamps aren't already stamped. It took me a minute to figure that out when I saw a bunch of foreigners in a line at the post office waiting to get their stamps stamped upon when there was a line-free drop box nearby.

But then this was 10 or so years ago. Anything I would send through the post office I send in emails now. For packages, UPS, DHL or FedEx do the job well.

Re:Fraud

[akintayo]

I would prefer risking the chance that the postman would steal my stamps, rather than have someone track all of my mailings.

I think the postman would be quickly caught because the tracking system will be able to retrieve where the stolen stamps were used. If there is enough theft, it doesn't appear that hard to figure out who probably stole the stamps.

Privacy

[zokahn]

Poststamps are anonymous, sms certainly is not. I believe that, doing it like this is expensive and traceble. Then again i have not send any snailmail in a long, long time. So i should not be the one to cry about it. Zokahn

Re:Privacy

[zill]

Poststamps are anonymous, sms certainly is not.

Most telecomms have a web interface for sending sms to their customers. Using that interface through a dozen proxies is probably as anonymous as it gets.

Stamps, on the other hand, will always leave a money trail if you buy them.

Re:Privacy

[Arancaytar]

You can buy stamps with cash. It's not like they'll run a background check or enter you into a Stamp Owner Registry. :)

Re:Privacy

[badran]

You can by a stamp with Cash.

The SMS will be tied to your phone number of CC.

Re:Privacy

[robinvanleeuwen]

Yes, offcourse stamps are anonymous... the letter with an to: and a from: address are not. Even those anonymous stamps are bought, payed with plastic? traceable...

And just because snailmail is becoming more rare, sms-stamps are a good thing. When people sent snailmail more regulary they always had a supply of stamps in their home within reach. Now with the one or two snailmails you send per year you first have to either buy stamps because the old ones got misplaced over the course of a year, or spend time searching for them because you don't use them that much anymore.... happend to me with the two letters i sent last year ;-)

Re:Privacy

[robinvanleeuwen]

The letters you send can be tied to the to: and from: address you put on them...

Re:Privacy

[PhilHibbs]

Most telecomms have a web interface for sending sms to their customers. Using that interface through a dozen proxies is probably as anonymous as it gets.

Stamps, on the other hand, will always leave a money trail if you buy them.

And how, exactly, are you going to get the generated code to write on your letter if you send the SMS through an anonymous service? And I don't think it's practical to track a stamp back to the supermarket that I bought some stamps at.

Re:Privacy

[Hognoxious]

O Rly? Trace this:

Sender:
    M. Mouse esq.
    23 Pluto Drive
    Disneyland 85012

Re:Privacy

[tepples]

Using [a web to SMS gateway] through a dozen proxies is probably as anonymous as it gets.

For one thing, I don't think these gateways have a return path, as PhilHibbs pointed out. For another, you got the meme wrong: it's seven proxies.

Re:Privacy

[elewton]

If I particularly want privacy, I won't fill the from address, or will fill it with false data.

Re:Privacy

[sabt-pestnu]

> Poststamps are anonymous... ... unless you lick them...

Re:Privacy

[makomk]

The from address is entirely optional and can be omitted, or just not put on the outside packaging. Opening letters to read the contents is a crime in most countries.

I've always said it

[DrXym]

Philately will get you nowhere.

Re:I've always said it

[Anne_Nonymous]

If philately is really legal in Sweden, that would get me there.

Re:I've always said it

[dkleinsc]

"Who needs a hobby like tennis or philately?
I've got a hobby: rereading Lady Chatterley."

-Tom Lehrer

Philately

[vagabond_gr]

Could this be the end of stamp collections and philately?

Not really.

Btw I'm selling the following RARE swedish stamp:
67XX5768XX34XX4233 (digits hidden for security reasons).
Anyone interested?

Re:Philately

[narcc]

Btw I'm selling the following RARE swedish stamp:
67XX5768XX34XX4233 (digits hidden for security reasons).
Anyone interested?

Buyer Beware! vagabond_gr (aka smstampmaster_25 on ebay) is known for selling common sms stamps claiming that they're "rare" to bilk money out of newbie Swedish sms stamp collectors.

While it's true that you won't find 67XX57 issue stamps offered on slashdot very often, they can be had for under $20 at any sms stamp collecting show in Europe. Just did some checking, and there are 3 on yahoo auctions right now.

Scammers like vagabond_gr are ruining the whole market for us true sms-philatelists and causing prices to rise for everyone!

Re:Philately

[Darinbob]

Stupid slashdot with misleading summaries. They are not "replacing" stamps. It is an extra option. Sane people and luddites will use stamps still. Insane technophiles will not use the new system because they never send letters using low tech paper.

Re:Philately

[Dabido]

I have that one with the second 4 printed upside down. Worth a fortune! :-)

Making it easier for bigbrother

[pinkishpunk]

Great way to track peoples communication, you order the stamp with your mobil phone, so unless its a prepaid they can now check who you send snailmails to easy.

The Latest from the Department of Stuff No

[Compaqt]

One Asked For.

Do you think this is anything other than a way for the company contracted for this project to make their living?

Yeah, this is neato, but what was wrong with stamps?

Re:The Latest from the Department of Stuff No

[cowboy76Spain]

Well, just guessing, but probably the costs of physically producing the stamps (usually you put antifraud elements in it), distributing them and having them publicly available must be, if not huge, considerable.

As for the solution, I feel it is too early; the technology is not ready yet. You have to:

1. have a cell phone (ok, you can take as almost granted in Sweden).
2. know how to send a message (not rocket science, but can be hard for people not used to technologies).
3. remember the sms number phone
4. remember how to code the message

IMHO, a lot more complicated than the actual system (even if it is quickier than go to the shop/PO and buy the stamps). I hope they allow the old system to be run side by side with this one until they get something better.

Could this be the end...

[91degrees]

Could this be the end of stamp collections and philately?"

I always like these simple yes/no questions. In this case, the answer is "no".

You go to into a shop and buy some stamps and stick one on your letter. In a most cases it's a lot easier than texting a number and writing it on the package. This is a convenience for some people but not a replacement.

You now pay even more

[Anonymous Coward]

Now you also get to pay the price of a text message on top of the cost of postage.

This may be cost effective

[e70838]

The article says that "risk of forged codes is no greater than it is with traditional stamps".
If this system is implemented correctly and the text message contains a unique id that can be easily associated to the destination address, the sender address and the transaction, then forged codes or reused codes can be easily detected and efficiency of the all snailmail system could be improved.
An other step to simplify address recognition would be to use QR code.

Re:This may be cost effective

[profplump]

You don't have to track anywhere near that much information. You just give the code a limited lifetime -- it is invalidated when scanned at a postal center, or after say 72 hours of inactivity (at which point it could be refunded or just lost). Immediately after the code is invalidated, return it to the pool of available codes to keep the maximum amount of entropy available in that pool. Given a limited lifetime the code can be fairly short and not require any information about the letter other than the amount of postage it needs, all without serious risk of someone guessing or re-using the code.

There's some additional risk to individuals, as codes can be copied in addition to just being stolen or lost like stamps. But that's not a problem for the postal service, and given the relatively low value of the postage and the simple security measures required to protect the code it's probably something individuals are willing to accept.

The risk of loss to the postal service is probably smaller than with regular stamps. The centralized, automatic, electronic distribution makes it difficult for employees or other brick-and-mortal thieves to steal postage except for the very small number of people with access to the system, and "forged" codes are much, much less likely to work than forged stamps if the code selection is appropriately random.

no

[phantomfive]

Could this be the end of stamp collections and philately?"

No. It's the beginning of the rise in value of my stamp collection. :)

Re:Written?

[dingen]

Addresses are written as well and they're also scanned by machines. Why would these codes be more difficult?

New vocabulary word: Philately

[MrEricSir]

Philately/Philatelism/Philatelic is your vocabulary word for the day.

Especially if you live in or around San Francisco.
http://stampsfromelsewhere.com/

Wow, that gives me lots ideas!

[famebait]

* Powertools will get your stone axe sharper, quicker! * Put your horse and carriage on a freight-train for greater speed! * Sending my telegrams would be so much quicker if I could just order them from my iPhone!

Re:Wow, that gives me lots ideas!

[nickruiz]

* Powertools will get your stone axe sharper, quicker! * Put your horse and carriage on a freight-train for greater speed! * Sending my telegrams would be so much quicker if I could just order them from my iPhone!

Until e-Cards become popular for birthdays (fat chance) and contracts are completely digitized, snail mail isn't going anywhere and thus this isn't a bad idea.

Re:Wow, that gives me lots ideas!

[uncanny]

yeah, i shoved a $20 in the CD drive and sent the e-card to my niece, she said she never got it. Psh, she's probably just trying to get another $20 out of me, NO DICE LADY!

Re:Written?

[hnangelo]

No they are not. They are sorted by humans. I know people that do that kind of work in Sweden.

BARCODE commercial postage

[bussdriver]

We already have various barcode formats for comerical postage. So the OCR is now being leveraged to let you write the code on the letter without the special software and printer.

Any issues involved would also be involved today with existing systems - a scanner could copy such codes and a printer could place them on your post... but we've not heard about that being a problem... is it rare or did they address such issues already over a decade ago?

Re:Written?

[Eudial]

Those are the letters that the machine scanning fails to process.

Denmark too

[spectrokid]

Danish post will start the same concept. The codes will be read by handwriting-capable OCR and will only be valid 8 days.
Interesting experiment...

Re:Denmark too

[Another, completely]

How much cheaper than a stamp?

How to resolve the situation ?

[analyst-cz]

Lets assume postal office will somehow write down (in database) used codes. So what will they do, if SMS went from the anonymous SIM card and the same code is used on two letters from two different senders (if even sender could be identified - in Czech it is not obligatory for standard mails).

1. 1)Refuse both letters ? Who will rely on such unreliable service?
2. 2) Deliver both ? Cry over income losses ?
3. 3) Refuse random of letters ? Just kidding :-)

No More Anonymous Posts....Literally.

[Anonymous Coward]

What a great way for your government to keep tabs on your communications.

Re:No More Anonymous Posts....Literally.

[DrXym]

What a great way for your government to keep tabs on your communications.

You mean like using a government run service to deliver a message to someone? Mail can already be tracked virtually from end to end and if government had cause they could easily intercept your mail, lift fingerprints, dna samples, read / replace the contents etc. If you're that paranoid I suggest you don't use the system at all.

Got it from american late-night television.

[eddy]

I think I can one-up you in that department. I got it from a Craig Ferguson monologue a couple of days ago. "Wait, we're doing what?"

Doesn't consider tourists

[Rob Kaper]

Shortcodes for premium text messages are assigned nationally, so foreign tourists will not be able to use this system. That seems like a big oversight, because how many local consumers really still use snail mail? There's birthdays and Christmas, but other than that I'd expect the majority of purchasers to be tourists sending postcards?

Re:Doesn't consider tourists

[snugge]

Well, the tourists probably have time to buy a stamp from the same place they buy the postcard.

And it's more fun to get a postcard with some exotic-looking foreign stamp on it than a string of digits

Re:Doesn't consider tourists

[Rob Kaper]

Sorry, but that's simply not how shortcodes work. They are not part of the international routing tables with prefixes. In fact, they are provider specific add-ons (fortunately coordinated nationally). If you use a shortcode while roaming your message is still routed to the service attached to it in your origin country.

Ok option, not as requirement

[Remloc]

Many totally tech capable people (raises hand to indicate self) may be technically adept, building their own 'puters, posting to /., etc. etc., yet don't own a cell 'phone, much less one capable of text messaging because they hate them. Every 'phone I own has a cord to the wall. Does that mean I'm no longer allowed to send mail?

Re:Ok option, not as requirement

[cbope]

In Nordic countries, landline phones at home are quite rare these days. Mobile phone penetration here in Finland is more than 2 mobile phones per person over the whole population. Landlines are really only used for home ADSL and businesses with in-house exchanges. Even home alarms typically use 3G or GPRS radios, not landlines.

I can't remember the last time I saw a landline in a residence here.

Not new - just a new way to pay.

[cheeseflan]

Come on everyone, this is just pre-paid franking. Nearly all european mail services (I have no idea about the rest of the world, sorry) offer this in various guises, usually only requiring an account with the company. Royal Mail in the UK offer their "SmartStamp" service allowing you to purchase your postage online. You don't have to be a company, and you use your home printer to print out the codes/franks on the letter. You can see it here: https://www.royalmail.com/portal/sme/content1?catId=62300709&mediaId=99400762

Re:Written?

[delinear]

It's still a non-trivial task that they're now considering doubling. And for what purpose? They'd need the (expensive if it's a government service) IT infrastructure to support this, they'd prevent people without mobiles from sending letters (unless they keep both methods, in which case it's even more insane), I'm not seeing the upside. Well, I guess it would pretty much end anonymous mail, which conspiracy theorists might think is the reason, but I'm failing to see a sane reason.

Has been around for a while

[radl]

In Germany Deutsche Post started this more than two years ago http://www.deutschepost.de/mlm.nf/dpag/images/flashapps/handyporto_bin/index.htm For reasons unknown until today I never recieved a letter with the so called "Handyporto". Maybe this is because they are charging text message porto customers 72% more per letter (0.95 € Handyporto VS 0.55 € regular stamps). But this is just a wild guess...

Re:Written?

[Candid88]

A short code of capital letters and numbers is easier to automatically verify than a stamp.

Re:Written?

[Chrisq]

penis.

I don't think this applies to French Letters

Re:Umm....This is news?

[M8e]

The difference here is that you pay with SMS and you don't need to print anything. Just write the code you get in the returing sms on your envelope.

1. Send SMS with a simple code ("Inrikes"/"Utrikes" and weight) to Posten. Something like "IN100", "UT200" etc.
2. Receive SMS with code from Posten.
3. Write that code on the envelope.

No need for any computer, smartphone, printer, credit card, online identification etc. You just need any old dumbphone that can send SMS.

Re:Written?

[Hognoxious]

Ceteris paribus lowercase letters are more readable. The most useful thing to do is avoid easily confused pairs - B and 8, or 0 and O.

Re:Written?

[Candid88]

Yes, you are correct. I meant to say that non-cursive letters are the easier to understand.

The security

[Shienarier]

If the destination is associated with the code, it would be pretty secure. I'm assuming that at least eventually the address won't even be needed on the envelope any more, just the code.

Re:Written?

[dingen]

No they are not.

Yes they are.

They are sorted by humans. I know people that do that kind of work in Sweden.

Sure some letters are considered unreadable and still sorted by hand, but the vast majority of all written addresses on envelopes is scanned & sorted automatically.

Supplement, maybe...

[Chris Mattern]

But replace? You have to have text messaging to be able to send a letter? Really?

Very low priority to abuse

[Hadlock]

We've had the ability to "print our own stamps" for about 10 years now here in the US (as datamatrixes). I haven't heard of too many schemes to try and abuse this plan. The people who actually write letters these days aren't likely to try and take advantage of the system. Automating handwriting codes onto letters? What a huge waste of time. Any bulk mailing company in Sweden is already registered with the national post office; they aren't likely to risk their legitimate bulk mail discounts over paying immigrants to handwrite bogus codes.
 
Personally I'd love this sort of service here in the US. I can't recall how many bills I've phoned in with a debit card simply because I couldn't be bothered to buy more stamps and envelopes.

Gallery

[cfzirbes]

Man, have you seen the photo gallery on the original post site? http://www.thelocal.se/gallery/nightlife/ You gotta love Sweden.

Those are much more expensive

[tepples]

You can buy subway, train, and bus tickets via SMS here, and it works pretty well. I don't see how applying the same concept to mail could go wrong.

It wouldn't work in the United States, where for people without texting plans, the carrier charges as much for a round-trip text message as first-class letter postage itself. The 20 cents to send and 20 cents to receive would be far less than the price of a monthly subway, train, or bus pass.

Disney in Pahonicks?

[tepples]

Disneyland 85012

I didn't know Disney was putting up a theme park in Phoenix, Arizona.

Re:Disney in Pahonicks?

[Rowas]

Or rather, Sundsvall. Since it's not the US we're talking 'bout ;)

what fees will the carriers tack on to this?

[Joe The Dragon]

what fees will the carriers tack on to this?

$0.99 per txt + standard rate (up to $0.25 each way)

Already reality in Germany

[the_real_nugator]

This has been a reality in Germany since 2009 where it's called Handyporto (mobile postage).

http://www.deutschepost.de/mlm.nf/dpag/images/flashapps/handyporto_bin/index.htm

People with social skills? ;-)

[fantomas]

Sorry, being cheeky ;-) My dad and my nieces love postcards from interesting places when I go on holiday / work abroad. My girlfriend thinks it's much more romantic when I send her a letter than when I send her a txt msg. My friends love getting birthday cards through the post and sometimes I'll find a great book and send it as an unexpected present to a good friend. It's really nice to get some personal mail through the door as well as bills and junk mail.

Probably I am old fashioned. Also in the UK the postal system, while it has its faults, still works pretty well. Cheaper to post parcels through the mail than by a courier and they'll still get there (recently I sandblasted some door locks for my brother and posted them to him, no problem, couple of quid to do so including recorded delivery, no idea how much a courier would cost).

Really?

[Comboman]

Ceteris paribus lowercase letters are more readable.

By humans or OCR? I would have thought uppercase was more readable because they don't tend not to run together like lowercase (i.e. a "nn" or "rn" that reads as "m"). BTW, lowercase also has easily confused pairs, especially 1 & l which are difficult to distinguish even when not handwritten.

Re:Really?

[Hognoxious]

I was thinking humans, but I'd expect similar things to apply for OCR - wouldn't the features that help humans - descenders, ascenders and the like - also aid OCR?

Is there OCR that can reliably read handwriting? In the UK post office human operators initially read the address and key it in - it's then converted into a series of machine readable dots.

P.S. I never said that lower case letters cannot be confused. Clearly, your initial choice of character set influences which potentially confused pairs.exist.

Re:Written?

[AndrewNeo]

Didn't you see Men in Black 2?! Our mail is sorted by aliens, not machines!

Re:Written?

[dingen]

Of course they have postal codes. Almost every single country in the world has postal codes. The reason? Easier / better automatic sorting.

Improving a dead technology

[wye43]

Snail mail is practically dead. Just let it rest in peace.

Why pay for free text messaging?

[grikdog]

Hang the security issue. What about the "what's in it for me?" issue? Guaranteed guvmint approved Spam in my inbox? The U.S. Postal Service already treats my name and address as a commodity, and that's just snail mail.

Stamps == free cash.

[Maxo-Texas]

Stamp collecting will not stop.

Putting a little ink on paper and selling it for 50 cents is too easy.
There are many stamps sold which are never used. Just like those special quarters

I love the idea !

[BusyBeeNYC]

This is so cool, didn't that ever happened to you? you want to send something thru the mail and its late night and there is nowhere to buy the post stamp? In my life thats something that happens on regular bases, I never have time to actually put all the checks in the envelopes and pay my bills so i do it in the middle of the night since the busy schedule dont let me take care of it during the day. Hopefully it will travel to USA http://www.bbcleaningservice.com/

laser to micro etch

[schlachter]

you just need cell phones with lasers to micro etch the pattern into an envelope....no need to write it down on the letter yourself.

verification of code with cell camera...

[schlachter]

simple...after you write down the coded, you validate it with your cell's camera. If there are mistakes or (machine) unreadable characters...it highlights them in the image.