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Has the Console Arms Race Stalled?

An article at Eurogamer argues that even with a successor to the Wii on the horizon, the console arms race we've watched over the past few decades is in the process of changing dramatically, with base hardware taking a back seat to software and peripherals. "Even the most basic yardstick for console improvements has become a little hard to read. It used to seem like a reliable idea that every five years or so, consoles would catch up to the PC — a platform which sees advancements every few weeks — and remain competitive for a while, before the PC's cutting-edge accelerated away. ... However, the upgrade cycle appears to have slowed considerably — with games that actually demand cutting-edge systems being few and far between, and core gamers far more likely to continue happily playing on two-, three- or even four-year-old PCs than they were in the past. ... If not a halt to progress, this is certainly a slowing — and probably one which is welcomed in most quarters. Consumers love improvements in graphical quality, but most would probably prefer to see any major increase in development budget being spent elsewhere — more detailed content, more expansive storytelling, more progress in areas that have been neglected in the former headlong rush to cram more polygons and effects onto every screen."

231 comments

  1. Yes. by Vegeta99 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Yes it has.

    1. Re:Yes. by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Despite how much the Slashdot and Gamer community decries DLC... it's kind of to 'blame' in my opinion.

      I still play TF2 more than anything else. It was released in October 2007 and it still feels fresh.

      We're not only stagnating on the engines our games run on... we're not even necessarily playing new games.

      Hardware manufacturers aren't the only ones who are realizing that it's more profitable to hold onto what you've already made and just make more of it.

      Sticking to the current Source Engine has probably saved Valve a boatload of money. Epic Games has continued to improve Unreal Engine 3. But it's mostly be evolutionary add-ons and optimizations for multiple platforms. They're able to ship more copies of UE3 without having to re-invent the wheel.

      We're also going to hit a bottleneck. With rasterization every little effect and feature is a unique hack. In order to have those hacks work together is a nightmare. And then artists have to spend a significant portion of their time optimizing their assets for a rasterized pipeline.

      I think we're hitting the limits of what people can manage to keep straight with rasterization. The future is raytracing in my opinion--it's just too slow at this very second. But it's fundamentally far simpler and easy to create content for. You want a reflective material. Great. Create a ray. Shoot it in the reflection vector. Once it hits something it'll follow that shader's properties. And so on and so forth.

      Lighting, shading, rendering, effects.... it's all easy and straightforward to write. It's just kind of slow. Maybe Caustic's OpenRL and Optix will fix that in the future. Time will tell. But the status quo is an unfortunate dead weight hanging around the advancement of image fidelity.

    2. Re:Yes. by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      A longer explanation would be that each generation of gaming consoles effectively are a dead end. There is no upgrade path for the hardware, the operating system on a new generation isn't really designed with backwards compatibility in mind and the consoles are locked down to a level making it only possible for the most extreme hackers of each generation to really do something outside the ordinary with them. Gaming consoles are there for consumption, not creativity.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    3. Re:Yes. by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      TF2 sort of jumped the shark with the engineer update. Valve hasn't released hardly any new "official" maps since launch (besides the Arena maps), and opinion varies wildly on the quality of the included "community" maps. While it's been a financial success and is probably a keystone to their development process as a whole for the source engine, it feels played out to me. I finally lost interest in early 2010. I will log in from time to time, but the same 10 maps by no means "feels fresh".

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    4. Re:Yes. by JMJimmy · · Score: 0

      I would whole heartedly disagree.

      GameCube->Wii
      PS1->PS2->PS3 (well, should have been PS3)
      50% of Xbox titles -> Xbox 360

      They're offering a limited upgrade path it seems but I see Microsoft's move with Kinect to be the biggest move in offering an upgrade path. While not the same as a PC upgrade path they want you to upgrade your current system with Kinect. While it's technically a peripheral, it adds substantively to the console's capabilities. Further, it's USB which means it will be able to be used with the next generation of Microsoft console. In addition Microsoft has already stated that gamertags and achievements will carry over to the new console, this effectively means that the hardware is being replaced with no substantive change to the user.

      The real problem as I see it is that software simply can't keep up with hardware. By the time companies have vetted a technology, trained their staff to use it, those staff becoming effective at using it, working out the bugs, etc you're usually several years into the life of a console. Those are usually just the major dev houses that can afford to do that - the rest must wait on the tools to catch up to the hardware. When I think about it of the 1,506 titles with achievements (those without are indie/xbox originals) currently on the 360 I would say fewer than 50 games show a significant ability to take advantage of the underlying hardware.

      I think a perfect example of what I'm talking about can be seen in the Prince of Persia series on PS2 - the same hardware underneath but the 3rd game is so much more advanced than the first (and not just in terms of graphics). Assassn's Creed series (PoP code underneath) continues this, each game is technically more and more impressive for the 360/PS3 and I doubt they have tapped the potential of either console.

    5. Re:Yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, come on! While I agree this isn't enough to be modded informative.

    6. Re:Yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course. And there's only one thing you can blame... economics.

      The xbox360 and wii have dominated in the market, where the higher spec'd, expensive, late-to-market PS3 lost the company marketshare. In the meantime, the most popular games on earth work great on older hardware. The CoD titles and WoW alone constitute a large percentage of all dollars spent on gaming worldwide every year, and neither require a new, cutting-edge gaming rig. The customers don't want it because they don't want to buy new stuff and the console makers don't want it because production, marketing, etc are horribly expensive... while only a miniscule population of uber-gamers with too much money do want it. So nobody is going to be duking it out over highest specs when there's lots more money to be made keeping the same old hardware around and extending it with widgets, just as the customer would prefer.

      Frequent, expensive replacements are bad for everyone. This was the natural conclusion of any "console arms race".

    7. Re:Yes. by FlyingCheese · · Score: 1

      Ever hear of the "new" game type called Payload? There's plenty of official maps. Nevermind the loads of high quality community made maps out there. Play on better servers if you don't want to play the same 10 maps.

    8. Re:Yes. by bonch · · Score: 1

      DLC makes up for the cost of software development. Videogames are the only entertainment industry that hasn't adjusted its prices in response to inflation and other factors because customers won't let go of the $50-60 sweet spot in their minds.

    9. Re:Yes. by VGPowerlord · · Score: 1

      Valve hasn't released hardly any new "official" maps since launch (besides the Arena maps), and opinion varies wildly on the quality of the included "community" maps.

      TF2 started with 6 maps.

      It now has 48 game maps (51 total maps counting 2xTraining maps and 1xItem Test).

      Of those, 18 are Community maps; 2 of the community maps were only textured by the community (Valve did the map layout and geometry).

      Valve has added 26 (of 32 total) Valve maps on the following dates, from most to least recent:
      2011-04-14 (1): koth_badlands
      2011-01-19 (1): cp_5gorge
      2010-12-17 (1): cp_degrootkeep
      2010-10-27 (2): cp_manor_event, cp_mountainlab (these are textured by the community, though)
      2010-07-08 (3): pl_thundermountain, pl_upward, plr_hightower
      2009-12-17 (2): cp_gorge, ctf_doublecross
      2009-08-13 (4): ctf_sawmill, koth_nucleus, koth_sawmill, koth_viaduct
      2009-05-21 (3): arena_nucleus, arena_sawmill, plr_pipeline
      2008-08-19 (6): arena_badlands, arena_granary, arena_lumberyard, arena_ravine, arena_well, pl_badwater
      2008-04-29 (1): pl_goldrush
      2008-02-14 (1): cp_badlands
      2008-01-25 (1): ctf_well

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    10. Re:Yes. by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      It is really down to biology rather than technology, once games look just good enough and sound just good enough, compared to reality, you are stalled until you get a virtual substitute for reality.

      Until virtual reality glasses are here, with high resolution images, consoles can at this point only really chase lower price rather than higher power.

      The big convergence between what consumer PC's are capable of doing at a price and what consoles can do is coming closer and that console licence fee for software is a problem.

      Good virtual reality is guaranteed to be expensive, the question is whether it will get here before consumer PC's kill the console (simply by being built into your next big screen TV).

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    11. Re:Yes. by DDLKermit007 · · Score: 1

      And when developers MAKE a game worth 50-60 I'll happily pay it. Problem is, most make a game worth 30-40, and then release the DLC a month later that makes it worth 50-60. I end up waiting until it's on some stupid Steam sale usually for 10-15 because of this.

    12. Re:Yes. by Squiddie · · Score: 1

      That's ridiculous. Games bring in tons of profit even at that price. Even when games drop the the $20-$30 level, they still make a profit. Games have always had inflated prices.

    13. Re:Yes. by hairyfeet · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I wouldn't say it is just that, it is also that there is only so much eye candy you can look at while getting shot at, and too many turned gamers off by putting out completely shitty console ports, with just a little bling added if that.

      In the 90s and early 00s I was the type that had a new PC every two years and was constantly upgrading in between, all trying to get the good framerate. But now with so damned many games being designed for crappy 5 year old consoles first you know what? kinda pointless ATM. I'm quite happy with my Phenom II 925 quad (picked up nearly 2 years go) and the HD4850 my GF picked up for me (those were released in what? 07?) and even on newer games like Batman AA and Just Cause 2 frankly I get all the eye candy I can look at and it runs just fine at my native 1600x900, so why bother upgrading?

      I think the problem is too many focused on the bling bling and not the overall gaming experience. I have a couple of gaming customers that bought Crysis for the benchmarking, but do they actually play it? Not really. Sitting here playing in the shop I have folks come in and go "ooooh wow, what is that?" when I'm playing Brothers in Arms, even though that game is going on 8 years old. The reason they oooh and ahhh is because they focused on the experience with decent acting and a story that flows, so you feel like you are in the middle of Band of Brothers on HBO.

      Frankly, and I doubt I'm alone, I'd be happy to play a game with Far Cry 1 level graphics if it has a decent story and great controls. Too many of the newer games feel like nobody even bothered to test it with a keyboard to see if it was playable, or it has show stopping bugs that make it so you end up having to wait, sometimes months, just to get a game stable enough to play through.

      Bling bling is nice, but give me story, give me some decent AI, I'm so sick of devs bolting on MP and expecting that to be the "fix" for their shoddy AI. If I wanted to run around like a chicken with my head cut off while someone screams nigger and faggot I'd be playing halo. Thanks but no thanks devs. Give us atmosphere and a believable world, give us AI that will put up a good fight instead of the cheap "rubber band AI" that EA uses, where on hard you have a private that can snipe from 1000 yards behind cover while taking more rounds than the Terminator. We have multicore now, why aren't you using them for pathfinding and AI?

      And finally do something about your shitty DRM devs! I'd list all the times it has bit me in the ass but I think this guy says it best. So in the end I end up playing older games, games where all the patches are out, where I can download the crack so DRM don't bite me in the ass, games where I've seen enough reviews to know it is actually worth my time. In the end I'd say the consoles are just a symptom of a larger disease, the Activision "Lets milk that IP!" disease, where everything is just another copy of another copy and is frankly boring as hell. Why should I bother upgrading, when the new bling bling games the only thing they offer is bling?

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    14. Re:Yes. by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      For most people, $60 isn't a sweet spot, It's an overly expensive amount. Of all the entertainment options out there, games cost the most. More than movies, more than music, more than books. And don't tell me that games cost more to make, because movies cost much more than games, and are still able to keep the costs down for the end user. The problem is games is that the prices haven't come down since they were shipped on expensive cartridges that actually required the game cost a lot of money. Not games come on DVD, and most don't even have much of a manual. The barrage of people buying 99 cent games on their phone, and $5 to $15 games directly on their console shows that people really do want to pay less for games, but that for some reason the game development companies haven't started to bring prices down as much as they should.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    15. Re:Yes. by Bensam123 · · Score: 1

      I don't believe this is entirely true. While I agree with a lot of what you wrote, in terms of gameplay over graphics, eye candy, and other revolutionary technical changes to games, it is now becoming an EXCUSE to NOT make something better. I recently read a article that stated that developers don't believe graphics even need to be improved and they're happy if they don't(!).

      This is leading to laziness in the industry as the big wigs sit on top and get old and fat without really wanting to innovate and simply copy the latest CoD clone that sold well.

      Take physics for instance. IMO it was one of the biggest, if not they very biggest change to video games in this decade. You know what happened? It fell flat right around the time consolization took hold and you have to struggle to find ANY games with any sort of meaningful physics in it besides some harmless debris that people can't even interact with. The best use of it so far I've seen is BF: BC2. That, however, was not even real physics. It's just pre-rendered destruction sequences for buildings once a certain number of walls are blown out. Men of War / Faces of War (which is a relatively unknown game) has very nice physic interactions between projectiles and whatever decides to make a nasty hole in a building (like driving through it with a tank).

      Physics IS NOT just eye candy, it can completely change and reshape gameplay and you know what? It was thrown on the side like it never even existed.

      It's not just devs concentrating on eye candy, it's the shitty industry in itself and monetization of it's workforce into a small easily disposable source of income. They simply milk all their talent dry till they don't even want to do anything anymore and then discard them when they're past their usefulness. Almost no developers or publishers encourage innovation and most of them just want to spit out the latest iteration to get their monies worth. Only a handful of developers/publishers are doing things right such as Valve and Arena-net. However, they have their own problems, but those are quite outweighed by what they're accomplishing.

    16. Re:Yes. by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      For most people, $60 isn't a sweet spot, It's an overly expensive amount. Of all the entertainment options out there, games cost the most. More than movies, more than music, more than books.

      A movie is $15 and offers me two hours of entertainment maybe three times. A book is $20+ (I buy hardcovers) and as I am a speed reader, the fastest I know but probably not the fastest around by any means, even a particularly fat novel lasts maybe 12 hours. A short RPG costs $60 and lasts 20 hours. It's all in the same ballpark and often I get the best mileage out of a game; there's games I've played for days and days when you add it all up. A number of the games I have came on DVD.

      for some reason the game development companies haven't started to bring prices down as much as they should.

      In a capitalist society, they should bring them down only enough to make maximum profit. Or, indeed, they can raise them if that is applicable.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    17. Re:Yes. by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      Maps that aren't complete junk

      2008-04-29 (1): pl_goldrush

      2008-02-14 (1): cp_badlands

      2009-05-21 (2): arena_sawmill, pl_badwater

      2009-08-13 (1): koth_viaduct

      The rest of those are rehashes of other maps, gimmick/holiday maps, or just Bad Maps. Hell, Badlands is a remake of a TFC map. Goldrush is a remake of Dustbowl.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    18. Re:Yes. by atomicbutterfly · · Score: 1

      Physics IS NOT just eye candy, it can completely change and reshape gameplay and you know what? It was thrown on the side like it never even existed.

      There are games which use physics as the basis for their gameplay, but a lot of them are actually indie/casual games. Angry Birds and World of Goo are two that come to mind. The Penumbra/Amnesia games also use physics in a more elementary way, with regards to the player manipulating doors, draws, objects and whatnot in a lifelike manner.

      If your issue is with FPS games and their use of physics however, then sure. Half Life 2 was the last FPS which impressed me with its use in physics, but at this stage is been done enough not to be that amazing anymore (though killing enemies by throwing an explosive barrel at them is always fun).

    19. Re:Yes. by Narcogen · · Score: 1

      The shared costs are a much higher proportion of the total cost than the per unit costs on something like a video game, so it's very difficult to make such assertions with any meaning.

      A $30 sale assuredly covers all of its per-unit costs, and a portion of total costs.

      That's a far cry from saying that a game that sells a million copies at $30 would be profitable if it was profitable selling a million copies at $60. You're suggesting there that gross margins on games are higher than 100% if you can cut gross revenues to 50% of what they are and still have margin. That doesn't even include the risk that developers and publishers take when they invest in games that don't turn out to be hits, whose cost have to be absorbed by margins on the hits.

      The people who pay full price at launch are subsidizing those who buy at discount later, and retail outlets are subsidizing those who buy even later, by getting them off the shelves even at a loss in order to clear old inventory and give shelf space over to newer titles selling for full price.

      If there weren't a significant difference in the margin, games wouldn't be priced $60. If there weren't a significant portion of the market willing to pay $60, they wouldn't be priced $60.

      Given that there's no inherent value to an arbitrary creation like a video game, the market prices them at $60 at launch and less later and people pay it, I don't think there's any basis for your assertion that games have "inflated prices".

    20. Re:Yes. by Eraesr · · Score: 1

      Well no, it didn't. It's just that the focus is shifting.

      The article is basically about the influence of the reception of Nintendo's Project Café on Sony and Microsoft's plans for the future. The interesting thing about Project Café is that it uses hardware that, in terms of CPU/GPU power, is similar to XBox 360 and PS3. It doesn't push that envelope any further. And with the success of Wii and handhelds such as the DS and mobile gaming, the question should be asked: is improved graphics still a driving force behind console sales. The answer to that is most likely "no, it doesn't". A success story for Project Café will confirm this.

      What I find most interesting though is if Project Café had any chance of success, or if Nintendo would even go ahead with this strategy if MS and Sony wouldn't have come with Kinect and Move. Both companies are aiming for two, three, maybe even four more years for their current consoles. Kinect and Move should be the main driving forces behind their consoles for those coming years. It's easy for Nintendo to slot a new console into this time frame that's equally powerful (= cheap to produce) with some new and interesting peripherals tied to it. During Kinect/Move's lifetime, Nintendo could build a user base and possibly disrupt Kinect and Move's sales, forcing the two companies to jump the gun on new consoles at which time Nintendo already has a comfortable user base with Project Café and MS/Sony have to start from scratch. But if MS/Sony would release completely new consoles next year instead of going for Kinect/Move, would a gimicky, under-powered console work for Nintendo a second time around?

    21. Re:Yes. by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Your post brings up something that frankly has been bugging the living shit out of me. Now we have all this processing power, yes? Multicore CPUs, GPUs with dozens if not hundreds of stream processors, right? So why in the fuck can't I knock that damned door down no matter what I am packing! Seriously WTF?

      If I have a fricking shotgun and I run into a damned wooden door I ought to be able to use a standard SWAT breach maneuver and get through the damned door! All their talk about physics bullshit and I still can't even blow down the damned door with an RPG? WTF people?

      And it sounds like basically we are 100% in agreement, we are just looking at it from different angles. you think it is laziness, whereas I think it is nothing but Kotik style "milk that IP!" bullshit. They have learned how to crank out the bling bling almost to the point they can do it by assembly line, no thought required, therefor they can give it to the grunts to do and kick back and cash the checks. It doesn't help that we have so many clueless (I'm sorry, but running around like a chicken with your head cut off stabbing somebody with a knife until you get shot is NOT in any way innovative) that treat the MP in CoD as some sort of second coming, giving them an easy way to milk the shit out of the IP without having to do anything but add a little more bling and a new number.

      You will notice that damned near every. single. game. now has MP bolted onto it, even when it makes no damned sense whatsoever, just trying to milk that IP, and I would argue it also gives them an excuse to make a piss poor cookie cutter SP experience by giving the excuse that SP is more of a "training level" (yeah, cause you need lots of training for running around like a madman shooting everything in sight) for the MP bullshit. Mark my words it is gonna be another dreary Q3:Arena style drought where shitty game after shitty game is cranked out with its sole excuse for being is MP, only now it will be WORSE than the shittastic Q3:Arena period because they have now found out how to "monetize the IP long term" by screwing the shit out of you if you don't shell out another $100 or more on DLC. And then as soon as they can't milk it anymore? "Oh its time to abandon that game, no dedicated servers for you! Nope it is time to jump onto our next $100+ DLC shitfest "Medal of Dookie 6: Super chickens with their heads cut of with a vengeance!"

      So it is any wonder so many of us are hanging onto our hardware and not buying as much as the fratboy consolers? Unlike the consolers we had plenty of games in the past that are still playable without needing a separate machine for them and frankly they were better than the cookie cutter bullshit I see today. For every decent game you have to wade through ass deep shit, with reviewers so blatantly paid off it ain't even funny, oh and look how quick that one got fired for daring to say Kane&Lynch was MOR (in actuality it sucked assholes, but the poor bastard wasn't allowed to tell the truth) so you have to wade through ass deep shit or wait until a game has been out several months so actual gamers can speak the truth. Meanwhile we are buried alive in cookie cutter bling bling bullshit fests, with the gameplay being either mediocre at best, or at worst unplayable without an X360 controller, and Ai that either lines up to die or has X-Ray vision that lets them snipe you from behind ANY cover while taking more rounds than the T-800 did in the Cyberdyne scene in Judgement Day.

      And sorry about the length of the rant, I'm just so damned tired of every 9 out of 10 games being SSDD. I've gone back to playing games like No One Lives Forever, simply because i'm so damned tired of quick time events, my guy carrying only 2 weapons, not being able to blast open a shitty wooden door even with a bazooka, lame ass AI that sucks no matter what setting you play on, broken controls, hell I could go on all day. They talk about how PC gamers bring in less money? Well maybe if you didn't put out broke ass console ports we might actually be excited and buy your game!

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    22. Re:Yes. by Uhhhh+oh+ya! · · Score: 1

      In words it sounds like exactly what the gaming market needs but in reality it would only be bad news for gamers. It would only lead to games being of over all lower quality but the companies justifying higher prices by saying that they spend more time building on the engine or something like that. Steam is doing a great job of fixing this, when a game sucks within a month or two the price will drop closer to what its actually worth. Yet on consoles a game that took 3 years to produce is the same price as the game that took 1 year and thousands of dollars less to produce, and this stays true even after the game has been out for a year.

      You can see the companies that understand the idea of releasing quality content before they ask for an entire days pay. Ones that release a full body game, and then when the players ask for more they make extensive DLC for a very reasonable price. Yet now tons of other companies see the money to be made in DLC, release a half finished game, and then release DLC that adds an hour or two of gameplay and cost roughly 1/5 the original games price.

    23. Re:Yes. by VGPowerlord · · Score: 1

      Maps that aren't complete junk

      2008-04-29 (1): pl_goldrush

      2008-02-14 (1): cp_badlands

      2009-05-21 (2): arena_sawmill, pl_badwater

      2009-08-13 (1): koth_viaduct

      The rest of those are rehashes of other maps, gimmick/holiday maps, or just Bad Maps. Hell, Badlands is a remake of a TFC map. Goldrush is a remake of Dustbowl.

      The thing about opinions is that everyone's opinion is different.

      For example, I think arena_sawmill (and ctf_sawmill) is a complete piece of crap; ravine and lumberyard are the only decent arena maps.

      Some other Valve maps that I like weren't shipped with the game: ctf_well, koth_nucleus, ctf_doublecross (IMO, easily the game's best and most balanced ctf map), pl_upward (IMO the game's best pl map), plr_hightower, and cp_degrootkeep.

      Then again, maybe you haven't even played the last 3 of those maps, as they were added after you stopped playing regularly (see my previous point about you being wrong about Valve not adding new maps).

      There are also some passable maps that I'll vote for if none of the above are present in a map vote: cp_mountainlab, cp_gorge, cp_5gorge, plr_pipeline, and pl_thundermountain.

      Even some of the community maps are really good, such as cp_steel, koth_harvest, cp_freight_final, cp_coldfront_final, and pl_frontier_final.

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
  2. Is this a bad thing? by Pricetx · · Score: 2

    I for one have never really seen the point behind spending thousands of (pounds/dollars) on a gaming pc capable of playing the latest games, only to be surpassed within a few months. As things currently stand, it's actually opening PC gaming to a far wider audience as the price of an adequate gaming rig is quite reasonable. Also, i'd rather have longer and better games than I would slightly better looking ones. And even still, games with modding support can often receive graphical boosts down the line anyway.

    1. Re:Is this a bad thing? by feedayeen · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I for one have never really seen the point behind spending thousands of (pounds/dollars) on a gaming pc capable of playing the latest games, only to be surpassed within a few months.

      As things currently stand, it's actually opening PC gaming to a far wider audience as the price of an adequate gaming rig is quite reasonable.

      Also, i'd rather have longer and better games than I would slightly better looking ones. And even still, games with modding support can often receive graphical boosts down the line anyway.

      Since when have you ever spent a thousand bucks on a PC and then faced a situation where you where not able to play a game that comes out just months later? If you're going to the Gray Box Store and buying the cheapest thing you see with a mouse, keyboard, and LCD, sure, you can't play everything at even decent visual levels, but you're looking at $400 pre-built computers at this point but even that thing should be able to run Crisis with decent settings*.

      Would I like to see games improve in quality? Absolutely! But how? Developers are working on that, they have things like motion capture trying to attract a more communal experience that we lost with online play. We have achievements to add to the since of competitions that used to be covered by the guy who got high scores and filled up pack man arcade with his initials 'BUT'. If you want a longer game, you can do the side quests of hunting 200 chickens. These are all fat though, actual quality comes from story lines and the writing, but this is easier said than done. Mods and DLC's are the easiest way to accomplish this problem, but they are not everyone's cup of tea for obvious reasons.

      *HP Pavilion Slimline s5710f PC - $410 on Amazon, pre-built with mouse and keyboard

    2. Re:Is this a bad thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      spending thousands of (pounds/dollars) on a gaming pc capable of playing the latest games

      Honestly, I keep hearing people say this, but this is simply not true.

      I'm fairly certain I can define myself as a hardcore gamer. And whenever I buy a new pc, I buy high-range but not ultra-range parts, keeping the total price below ~750 Euros (monitor not included).
      And my current pc has already lasted 3 years, being able to play ALL the latest games. And my previous pc lasted about 5 years, also all the while able to play all the then-latest games.
      Both pc's I've upgraded in their lifetime only once: adding some memory (which costs maybe 40).

      Sure, at first all the settings go at high and everything plays fine, and when it gets older you can't crank all the settings to the highest anymore, but NEVER below medium.
      A pc easily lasts 4 years capable of properly playing the latest games.

      ps. Screw graphics, this is the age of the indies!

    3. Re:Is this a bad thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You could say that gaming PCs replace the console treadmill, which has stagnated. Game consoles used to be released quite regularly.

    4. Re:Is this a bad thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since when have you ever spent a thousand bucks on a PC and then faced a situation where you where not able to play a game that comes out just months later?

      October 2007

    5. Re:Is this a bad thing? by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      But that was just proof of a developer 'future proofing' their work so that even on computers that hadn't been created yet people would continue to get advances without re-releasing a new game/engine.

      Crysis has grown and evolved along with the hardware over the last 4 years. Now we can play Crysis as it *could have looked* 4 years ago. So we're still getting an evolving product without the developer having to do anything.

    6. Re:Is this a bad thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Computers no longer cost that much to play the best of a game. You can buy computer parts for less than $400 that will run every single game at full setting, even in 3D assuming you have a case "tower", power supply, monitor, keyboard and mouse already. A simple video-card upgrade which can be less than $200 will give you enough juice to play the latest games and you can always SLi and even overclock your system. I spent about $280 in upgrades 2-years ago by purchasing parts online and can play games like Crysis 2 on full setting. Heck, I can play it in 3D on high-settings (a level before highest). That's with 2-year old parts

      Games are barely getting better visually and this is mainly due to the cost of improving graphics. You can make a pong clone inside 15-minutes and it used to sell for like $50. Today, games that aren't made by indie-devs starts at 3million+ and can enter hundreds of millions like a movie. Until there's enough profit being generated to create these intense looking games, don't expect them to see yourself in the shine because it's becoming a business arena. Fortunately the gaming industry is booming but it's not the -right- audience for graphical improvements. Less and less games are being tailored for hardcore gamers and a massive increase is targeted towards the general "kid or adult/old people" audience like the kind of games on the DS/Wii.

  3. It's about ROI by Anubis+IV · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's not really saying that the console arms race has stalled, but is instead saying that the graphics arms race has stalled, which is probably true, and that efforts are shifting, which is also probably true.

    After all, just as dpi in printers stopped being a selling point once they all got "good enough", and just as megapixels are becoming increasingly irrelevant as a differentiating factor between cameras, so too are the graphics in today's games reaching a point where the return isn't worth the investment for the developers. Graphics are already "realistic enough" for most people, and trying to move things closer to photorealistic gameplay is probably not worth it, since the return they get is minimal, while the effort required is exorbitant. Instead, spending it on improved gameplay or other elements is a better return on their investment.

    Games like Minecraft doing so well just hammers that point home.

    1. Re:It's about ROI by Zumbs · · Score: 2

      Graphics are already "realistic enough" for most people, and trying to move things closer to photorealistic gameplay is probably not worth it, since the return they get is minimal, while the effort required is exorbitant. Instead, spending it on improved gameplay or other elements is a better return on their investment.

      Indeed. Let the movies go for photo realism. When the tech gets cheaper and more mature, it can be used in games. Meanwhile, I look forward to an increased focus on gameplay and storytelling. Who would have thought that consoles would bring about such advancements ... ?

      --
      The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head
    2. Re:It's about ROI by aix+tom · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Exactly. I also still remember soundcard "arms race" where they trumped each other with the midi channels and sample quality every few months. That also has reached a "good enough" level so that nobody really cares about that any more. The same thing is or will be happening to graphics.

    3. Re:It's about ROI by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      yes, so many many games seem to invest everything in making things look pretty and somewhere along the way... they forget it's supposed to be a game they're making rather than some kind of interactive movie.

      Somewhere around Oblivion or perhaps slightly beyond that is where I stop caring about how pretty a game is and being able to see every follicle on a characters beard really doesn't add much for me.

      On the other hand being able to interact with the world in more interesting ways, have the game surprise me with unexpected events or just having a good story adds massively to a game no matter if it looks like crysis or dwarf fortress.

    4. Re:It's about ROI by DarkOx · · Score: 4, Interesting

      In fact the graphics might be as realistic as some people want them to be. I like FPS and sandbox type games, but I am not sure I would want to play one that is photo real. Part of the fun of these games is that its cartoon violence. If they reminded me more of the terrible things I have seen, or the really terrible things I have seen on the news I think it would remove the joy of play.

      Do you really want to drive down a street in GTA past some meth-head twitching with withdraw showing their missing teeth and jaw swollen infection? Do you really want see the guy you just shot go pale and grab at the wound in despair? These games are about escapism to some degree and while up to a point making them more and more realistic made them more emmersive, we are near the place where if we carry it much farther we are going to start feeling bad for the fates of the characters. If that is what you want perhaps you'd find a John Stienbeck novel more satisfying than a game.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    5. Re:It's about ROI by boristhespider · · Score: 1

      This is a very good point. When I play GTA3, for example, I find myself not caring about the game and just stalking the streets at 3AM finding old ladies to kick to death. I'm not sure I'd enjoy that very much if it looked real.

    6. Re:It's about ROI by Charcharodon · · Score: 2
      The tech has gotten cheaper and more mature. ATI has eyefinity cards that can run games at 5700x1200 or 5700x2400 resolution, for under $250-500 (using multiple monitors) people have just stopped updating their machines.

      We had this problem a long time ago about the time the Quake game engine ruled the roost. Everyone was playing Half-Life, Counter Strike, and Team Fortress. They would run on a sub $100 graphics card. These days its about the same.

      It's not even really a developement cost that is at issue. Companies are so scared to challenging their customer base and are happy to just print money. Look at WOW, Valve, etc. I used to play EVE online and they more or less just rolled over with upgrade plans when large portions of their users screamed about a Dx9 card being the minimum to play the game.

      Everyone goes on and on about improving content and gameplay and screw graphics, but I hate to tell you graphics IS CONTENT AND GAMEPLAY!

      Remeber way back when playing a game walking through a forrest ment a half dozen trees and big open areas were completely devoid of all vegetation. Ask any FPS gamer how much they enjoyed trying to run and gun against snipers in that! Now you can not only walk through a forrest, but have streams, rocks, undergrowth, and destructable objects, you can do it for miles! If that doesn't sound like fertile ground for both gameplay and content. Give Bad Company 2 a try to see what a forrest full of trees does for gameplay. Give Fallout 3 a look to see what it does for story telling.

      I would like to see games push the boundards a little more, but in defense of the cheap/broke gamers, maybe the rollout can go a little slower. On the other hand people hanging on to 5 year machines that could be upgraded for the price of a couple of dinners and trip to the movies I loose all sympathy.

      Until games are to the point where I can walk into a room of my house marked "holo deck" graphics are not yet good enough.

    7. Re:It's about ROI by Medevilae · · Score: 0

      Just Cause 2 looks pretty damn good on a PC, and the enemies DO grab at their wounds and scream and cry when you kill them. I try not to pay attention to it, or I start feeling really bad. :(

    8. Re:It's about ROI by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      That's rubbish, graphics cards are still advancing at a ferocious pace.

      What's happened is that:

      a) Content production has plateaued so those graphics cards are just being used for higher frame rates and higher resolutions, not new effects (are there any effects left to do?). Upping the level of content would be massively expensive - you'll need twice as many people working on it.

      b) The spread of graphics card ability is wider then ever so the difference between a high-end card and what they're aiming at is quite wide (which introduces a vicious circle because less people see the need to upgrade their graphics)

      So...the advances in graphics cards is mostly for benchmark bragging rights. People read a magazine and see which company is faster this week and buy that brand when in reality there's not much difference between the two. These days you're not going to be disappointed because you made the wrong choice between AMD/NVIDIA.

      --
      No sig today...
    9. Re:It's about ROI by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      Good analogy...the sound card is now a moot point in choosing a computer (in fact the "sound card" ceased to exist in Windows 7)

      I think graphics still have a way to go until they reach that point though...integrated graphics still leave a lot to be desired.

      --
      No sig today...
    10. Re:It's about ROI by hedwards · · Score: 1

      Graphics are good enough, I would prefer they spent the extra resources on better writing and designing an aesthetic to wrap the whole game in. Or perhaps even QA, when a console game can't be released without significant bugs, you know that there's serious issues.

    11. Re:It's about ROI by hedwards · · Score: 1

      I don't know about that. PC game graphics for some genres are still increasing dramatically. I think a part of the problem is that you can't typically upgrade a console in ways which would make this happen. With PC games you typically have the luxury of throwing in a couple detail settings above what typical computers can handle to give a bit more life and to satisfy the people willing to spend huge sums of money on their rigs. That typically doesn't happen with consoles for obvious reasons.

      A $100 video card upgrade can do wonders for performance and the experience, but with consoles you're largely stuck buying the next generation. And good luck if they don't make one. I'm shocked at how bad the graphics on my PS3 games look compared to some of the better PC games. Sure the PS3 games like FO:NV don't exactly look bad, but they're definitely not as good too look at as higher quality PC versions.

      Which admittedly isn't that big of a deal, I tend to get sucked into a game far enough that I don't spend much time noticing that, but still.

    12. Re:It's about ROI by SomePgmr · · Score: 1

      Games like Minecraft doing so well just hammers that point home.

      Or in big company speak, "Make a Portal, not another CoD. It works out best for everyone."? :)

    13. Re:It's about ROI by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      On topic of ATI vs nVIDIA, as it currently stands and has been for a couple of years, nvidia offers CUDA, but costs about 10% more per FPS you get out of the card at the same level of quality.
      Two years ago nvidia used to also have better drivers, but nowadays it's been in reverse (example: DA2) with nvidia actually having game breaking bugs at AAA game's release - something that used to happen to ATI before but hasn't lately.

      So in the end you need decide if you need CUDA or not. That's the real choice. Speed per money is definitely on ATI's side, and driver quality is pretty much equal. That said, their advancement is really pretty limited in terms of quality, we're still limited by both DX9 and DX11, of which latter's new features remain largely unused as many titles want to have a multi-platform release meaning main design being for DX9 quality with all its limitations.

    14. Re:It's about ROI by fermion · · Score: 1
      I would say three things have happened to hurt ROI. FIrst, PC gaming became comparable with hurt the console and left two players, Nintendo catering to youth and Sony catering to the older crowd. The MS got in the game with xbox, and through agressive pricing, at this point free with a qualifying computer, set an unattainable maximum price for a high end console. This does not hurt Nintendo, but killed the launch of Sony PS3 which would have set the highest standard for the console. Who is going to invest in making the ultimate console if there is no market for it? Third is the iPad. People who might have spent money on a console for casual gaming are buying an iPad and plying angry birds or simple physics or space station or flight controller.

      Another reason has to be included. The game manufacturers themselves. It seems they are actively trying to kill the resale and rental market. Yet this is how kids get the games and get hooked. If the kids can't get the game, and therefore play the free or cheap online games, they will never buy a console.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    15. Re:It's about ROI by VGPowerlord · · Score: 1

      Two years ago nvidia used to also have better drivers, but nowadays it's been in reverse (example: DA2) with nvidia actually having game breaking bugs at AAA game's release - something that used to happen to ATI before but hasn't lately.

      ATI had that happen with Brink's release less than two weeks ago.

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    16. Re:It's about ROI by moogaloonie · · Score: 1

      Maybe more realism would snap us out of feeling the need to engage in such violent activities in depressing locales. I still play Just Cause 2 frequently, because I think they did an excellent job of making Panau a beautiful place to escape to. I would like to see rain that formed reflecting puddles, snow that accumulates, just generally more realism in all of the parts of the game I find pleasant. I would not particularly care to see more gruesome deaths or depictions of the dead.

    17. Re:It's about ROI by Beardydog · · Score: 1

      Testify! Also, people don't seem to have much imagination when it comes to computing power. Minecraft proves that people are interested in deep, different game mechanics, but aspects of it are severely Iimited by processing power (water, in particular, stands out). As proceesing power continues to march along, physics libraries advance and settle, and companies invest in exploring the possibilities they provide, we won't just see destructible walls that scatter a few physics objects. We'll see games in which planned destruction of a building aids you in your goal, and different components of the building (beams, wood, plaster) break at arbitrary points determined by the physics of the situation.

      Realistic liquids, gasses, and complex objects provide amazing opportunities for gameplay that's simple and intuitive to humans, but ridiculously fun.

      Extra storage, memory, and cycles can also allow something like a GTA whose thousands of citizens survive when they're beyond rendering distance, with goals and connections, who can be helped or exploited, with relatime ripple effects. An L.A. Noir in which witnesses occur naturally, and pass on physically determined information. A Black and White where thousands of subjects can be told to actively deform the terrain...

      Once you have throw-away quantities of power, the possibilities for fun balloon.

    18. Re:It's about ROI by moogaloonie · · Score: 0

      Oh, I know! The worst is when they scream "get it out!" when you snag one with the grappling hook. I have to tell myself that they are the same bastards holding citizens at gunpoint at traffic stops...

    19. Re:It's about ROI by lennier · · Score: 1

      we are near the place where if we carry it much farther we are going to start feeling bad for the fates of the characters. If that is what you want perhaps you'd find a John Stienbeck novel more satisfying than a game.

      American McGee's John Steinbeck's The Grapes of Mice and Doom IV does for Depression-era America what Dante's Inferno did for Renaissance Italy! Exiled by the Dust Bowl (voiced by Stephen Merchant) from your Midwest farm, you must fight a succession of Works Progress Administration bosses culminating in FDR himself! After which, in the DLC, you travel to Berlin by airship to punch Hitler.

      --
      You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
    20. Re:It's about ROI by moogaloonie · · Score: 1

      Interactive movies are actually what I want. I don't play games for the challenge, I play them for the escape. I don't enjoy open ended multi-player games because I am simply not that competitive. Resident Evil 4, for me, was a high point in game design because I could not wait to see what kind of strange place I might end up in or what abomination I would face next. I liked my character, and I thought the NPCs were well done also (and I feel similarly about Just Cause 2 which I am still playing). I just want to explore while advancing a story to completion at my own pace.

    21. Re:It's about ROI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Somewhere around Oblivion or perhaps slightly beyond that is where I stop caring about how pretty a game is

      Heh, you don't know what you're missing :)
      http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=30054

    22. Re:It's about ROI by drsquare · · Score: 1

      I think the main problem with realistic graphics is that past a certain point, it just amplifies the flaws. Let's say you're playing a game with basic cartoonish graphics, if your character's sword, for example, clips through his cloak, you don't really notice or mind it. In a photorealistic game, it's incredibly jarring.

      If the water effects are stunning DX11 with ripple effects and everything, then the blurry ground textures on the shore really piss you off in a way they wouldn't in a game with more basic graphics.

      A bush that looks like a photograph is laughable when it pops into existence ten yards in front of you. You wouldn't care if it was a pixelly bush in an old game.

      A crisp character with every pore rendered in high definition looks ridiculous when you see it go through clunky animations, and hitting an opponent despite the swing of its sword being five yards short.

      Realistic graphics are a dead end because they're awkward and disturbing unless absolutely perfect in every way. You're better off going for stylised graphics and spending the processing power on draw depth, particle affects, more complicated environments etc. at a lower resolution.

    23. Re:It's about ROI by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Extra storage, memory, and cycles can also allow something like a GTA whose thousands of citizens survive when they're beyond rendering distance, with goals and connections, who can be helped or exploited, with relatime ripple effects. An L.A. Noir in which witnesses occur naturally, and pass on physically determined information. A Black and White where thousands of subjects can be told to actively deform the terrain...

      Of course, all of this is going to substantially increase the cost of game development again, because now you have to do a whole lot more work. Eve Online had to hire someone full time to manage their economy, for example, and they had to be someone you'd pay a lot because they know a lot and are a public face now. (I don't play the game, I just found it fascinating.) Having even a functional economy in a game is very difficult. I sure would like to be able to eventually take over every business in GTA, though, if that's what I wanted, and so on.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    24. Re:It's about ROI by dakameleon · · Score: 1

      The thrust of this article is that we don't have the next generation of consoles to upgrade to, where once-upon-a-time-a-decade-ago we would expect an upgrade to come through around 5 years after the launch of the "previous" generation. Other than the Wii2^H^H^H^H Project Cafe from Nintendo which is more like catching up to the PS3/X360, there's no hint of an upgrade from Sony & Microsoft.

      --
      Man who leaps off cliff jumps to conclusion.
    25. Re:It's about ROI by dakameleon · · Score: 1

      The term you're looking for there is the uncanny valley, which usually applies to human characters in graphics but can equally be applied to environments too. When you approach realism, everything seems to get better up until a point, at which the flaws spring out a whole lot more because the baseline is much higher.

      --
      Man who leaps off cliff jumps to conclusion.
    26. Re:It's about ROI by mikkelm · · Score: 1

      You're pointing to some fairly invalid analogies. Printer and camera resolutions deal exclusively in image definition. Video cards don't just deal in image resolution, or image quality. They also deal in framerates, view distances, level of detail scaling, and all manner of other concerns, half of which absolutely are not at "good enough" levels. Particularly when dealing with game consoles.

    27. Re:It's about ROI by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      Except that I wasn't talking about video cards at all. I was talking about the allocation of resources by game developers and how they've allocated their time to graphics in the past. After all, my comment about spending the money on improved gameplay instead of graphics doesn't make sense if we're talking about video card manufacturers.

    28. Re:It's about ROI by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      Couldn't agree more, and the smart developers figured this out ages ago. Take a look at any Blizzard games from the last decade or two and you'll see that they chose to go with an over-exaggerated, somewhat cartoonish art style. WoW is coming up on 7 years old, yet it's still insanely popular. The same goes for the original StarCraft, which had a loyal following for over a decade. People can pick those games up and enjoy them today, despite the fact that the technology is so far behind the times.

      In contrast, sports games, FPS, and other MMOs that strive to look realistic fail to hold up just a year or two after they come out because of their attempt to do so. It's the same reason why CG and special effects stand out so much in older movies, but seemed okay when we first saw them. Also, for another example of non-realistic graphics winning out, who still plays MILITARY_FPS_X from 4 years ago? Now, who still plays Team Fortress 2? TF2 will be 4 years old in a few months, and it's still popular as well. With the exception of Counter-Strike, I can't think of a single realistic-styled FPS that has held onto its popularity to the same degree that TF2 has done.

    29. Re:It's about ROI by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      I'd buy it. The DLC, that is.

    30. Re:It's about ROI by aXis100 · · Score: 1

      Borderlands did an awesome job of that, using rotoscoped stylalised graphics. The visual differences between low and high details levels were alot less pronounced. Yes you could still turn candy on, but you sould still have a reasonable experience on low end hardware.

      Personally I like stylised graphics a bit more - I think it's the imagination and escapism it brings with it. Together with good gameplay, I racked up over 100 hours on it, awesome value for a $40 GOTY edition.

    31. Re:It's about ROI by mikkelm · · Score: 1

      You're talking about devices and their output in your analogies. The output that you're addressing video, and the device outputting that is a video card. You argue that "graphics" in video games today are "good enough," and I'm telling you that you're neglecting a lot of parameters that most certainly aren't up to "good enough" standards yet.

      There are plenty of visual elements in many games that could be vastly improved, and significantly contribute to gameplay and immersion. To argue that developers just don't care about those features despite trying their best to squeeze out every last drop of performance from outdated console hardware is hardly insightful.

    32. Re:It's about ROI by timftbf · · Score: 1

      Graphics are already "realistic enough" for most people, and trying to move things closer to photorealistic gameplay is probably not worth it, since the return they get is minimal, while the effort required is exorbitant. Instead, spending it on improved gameplay or other elements is a better return on their investment.

      Why do they even *have* to be "realistic", at least for every game?

      I'm replaying Oddworld: Abe's Oddesey at the moment. It's a 1998 PS1 title, and while the graphics are somewhat blocky, there is a definite artistic style to them that means it's still a joy to play.

      Compare that to something that was *trying* to be realistic a year or two (or three) ago, which is just going to look like crap against current technology.

      What could someone with actual artistic vision do with a modern console?

  4. Graphics lure them in.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Graphics and shiny things lure people into a game but it is the storytelling and immersion that keeps them playing. Maybe for AAA shooter titles that doesnt matter, because they have your money. For other games with more DLC or say MMO's with subscriptions, thats important.

    1. Re:Graphics lure them in.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I suspect it is more due to the cost of producing a game with high end graphics. It's very expensive and gets more so the more pixels/polygons you add.

    2. Re:Graphics lure them in.... by FiloEleven · · Score: 1

      This is very true, and is one reason I think a lot more interesting stuff is coming out in places like XBLA than anywhere else. People seem to forget that 2D is still a viable medium for good gameplay and interesting new ideas. I don't even own an XBox, but the amount of cool stuff on Live Arcade is steadily pulling me towards buying one. I'm sure there will be the occasional disc-based game worth playing, but most of them look like "Just Another FPS IV: Multiplayer Rehashed" to me.

      It makes a sad sort of sense though: when you're spending millions of dollars to create a game with high-end graphics and lots of realism, you want to be pretty sure it will make money so it ends up being very formulaic with maybe one or two things that differentiate it from the other "AAA" titles. There is no room for a spectacularly odd game that thousands will rave about but tens of thousands will ridicule when your break-even point is $30 million. When it's only $30,000 (and many XBLA games cost much less than that) you can take those chances. They don't always pan out, but when they do the gaming universe is more greatly enriched than by the $30 million title.

  5. Down to Software...For Now by softWare3ngineer · · Score: 2

    They need give software a chance to catch up. Hardware is not the limiting factor anymore. It doesn’t take much crappy programming to trip you up when you are trying to render billions of pixels consistently within a small window of time, throwing in some network latency for good measure.

    1. Re:Down to Software...For Now by lucian1900 · · Score: 1, Informative

      Actually, that's not really true. Consoles are extremely underpowered (yes, even PS3 and Xbox) and they're often the quality bottleneck for crossplatform games (PC and consoles).

    2. Re:Down to Software...For Now by softWare3ngineer · · Score: 1

      While hardware updates can and will have an positive impact on performance, i think that gains in software efficiency can have impacts that are magnitudes higher. for instance if you cpu is running at a higher clock speed then that will result in more instructions per time period. but if an algorithm goes from O(n^2) to O( log n) then the number commands executed will result in a speed increase that is a whole lot more than your 10 % hardware boost helped. note that this is only really beneficial for large commands set. it also has a benefit of being instantly available to everyone with an update and doesn’t require me to buy more stuff.

    3. Re:Down to Software...For Now by luke923 · · Score: 0

      Please tell that to Electronic Arts. Have you played any of the Madden series on XBox360? There's certain instances where the thing just lags. I understand there will be lag if we're dynamically adding more polygons, but how taxing can having 22 players, the referees, the stadium, and a football be -- esp. when that's always static?

      --
      "Good, Fast, Cheap: Pick any two" -- RFC 1925
  6. Demographic Shock by Ensayia · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The Nintendo Wii and various versions of the handheld DS have outsold everything else so powerfully that companies are now forced to rethink their previous strategy of better hardware = better console. Given those factors and that the casual and 'family' gaming market has vastly overshadowed every other demographic and It's easy to see how the entire gaming landscape has changed since the PS2/XBOX/Gamecube generation. One rather bad downside to this trend is that shovelware is surging in this current generation, and has caused me to even stop buying games for my Wii. It's all obscure JRPG nonsense or movie games / shovelware. I haven't played my Wii in several months and do not plan to anytime soon, if I can smuggle it away from the GF I will probably sell it off cheap to a family who eats that crap right up. In case you couldn't tell I'm a PC gamer, which seems to be the only remaining platform for deep and intricate games. Even this is slowly withered by everything now having to be tailored for both the PC and consoles which usually leaves the PC port with the short end of the stick.

    1. Re:Demographic Shock by QuantumLeaper · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The real problem is whoever is in the lead gets a truck load of shovelware, and that been happening since the Atari 2600...

    2. Re:Demographic Shock by Ensayia · · Score: 1

      Somewhat true, but I would say whichever is the easiest platform to develop for gets the shovelware. This is the reason we see My Little Pony and ZhuZhu Pets on the Wii instead of the notoriously hard to develop for PS3. We get movie games even on the beefier consoles because large movie companies can pay the extra dollar to make it happen.

    3. Re:Demographic Shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The real problem is that you don't have a girlfriend.

    4. Re:Demographic Shock by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1

      He might be in the market for Photo-realistic porn then!

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    5. Re:Demographic Shock by Lehk228 · · Score: 2

      if you think shovelware is surging you must not have been paying attention in the past, shovelware has been a problem always, you remember all the greats from the NES/SNES/Genesis era, but there were many not-so-greats and a fair share of omg-why-am-i-playing-this titles

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    6. Re:Demographic Shock by FiloEleven · · Score: 1

      I like to think that reduction of shovelware is one of the upsides to the (inevitable, IMO) trend towards a download-only model for games. If you have an integrated, online shop for games, you'd be stupid not to incorporate a rich rating system--something that takes taste into account like the Netflix system. Shovelware will naturally sink to the bottom, and even if it means no less is produced, it will take less effort to seek out the good games.

    7. Re:Demographic Shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you kidding? Every download-only game retailer I've looked at has tons of shovelware.

      Check this shit out

      It costs almost nothing for a download-only retailer to add it to an existing catalog because there's no physical product that has to be bought, stored and possibly sold at a loss (or never sold and written off). There is no incentive for them not to carry shovelware titles since even a small number of sales will make it profitable to have done so.

    8. Re:Demographic Shock by Beardydog · · Score: 1

      The Wii and DS sold well, true... but there's so much shovelware out there that it's difficult to turn a profit on anything unless you're Nintendo. You can make a fantastic, innovative shooter and get it into stores, but it winds up on the shelf next to a knock off shooter, a pet sim, a boxing game, and a sport compilation, each at one fifth the price.

      Peoe in the Wii space are hurting.

    9. Re:Demographic Shock by FiloEleven · · Score: 1

      Okay, but when I click "Advanced Search" and search for everything with a "metascore" of 80 or above, guess what doesn't appear? And that's a pretty naive filter that doesn't take into account my preference for certain kinds of game over others--something which did (again, like Netflix) would show me games I'm actually interested in more quickly.

      Read the last sentence in my previous post again. Even if it's still being produced, I will not be exposed to it, so what do I care?

    10. Re:Demographic Shock by exomondo · · Score: 1

      I haven't played my Wii in several months and do not plan to anytime soon, if I can smuggle it away from the GF I will probably sell it off cheap to a family who eats that crap right up.

      sounds like you have a pretty hip grandfather if he's into Wii gaming

      In case you couldn't tell I'm a PC gamer, which seems to be the only remaining platform for deep and intricate games.

      Like what?

  7. RTRT is the next hurdle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In terms of the graphics race, I think the next big thing to hit consoles(or gaming in general) would be Real-Time RayTracing. Consoles typically have specialized hardware(although they seem to be heading towards general-purpose these days), so a specialized RTRT chip wouldn't be out of the question if it were cheap enough and fast enough. Things like Caustic Graphics OpenRL come to mind.

    1. Re:RTRT is the next hurdle by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      Real-Time RayTracing simply isn't going to happen.

      a) It's not desirable. It looks cool for scenes with shiny spheres in them but it doesn't match the way light works in the real world.

      b) The amount of transistors needed to do make it happen would produce WAY BETTER results if used for other rendering methods (real time radiosity...?)

      --
      No sig today...
    2. Re:RTRT is the next hurdle by hedwards · · Score: 1

      In the long run, that's the way I imagine things going. A large part of the problem right now is that it really needs an accelerator, but at this point I don't know of any companies that make them. But in the long run, most of the complaints I have about graphics would be solved with a move to ray tracing. It's surprisingly jarring to have shadows misbehave and yet it's also very difficult to get right.

    3. Re:RTRT is the next hurdle by Firehed · · Score: 1

      What do you mean raytracing doesn't match the way light works in the real world? It's an exact reproduction of the real world. Light is emitted from things and enters your retina, and interacts with whatever's in between you and the light source. The only difference is that computers are working from your eye going forward, instead of the light source working back to your eye. It's still straight lines, reflection, refraction, and changes that occur along the way.

      Your second point is valid (for now), but that's a technology problem that WILL be solved with time. Chips will still get faster.

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
    4. Re:RTRT is the next hurdle by moogaloonie · · Score: 1

      The terms graphics race seems to be used around here to refer to little more than number of pixels pushed and the complexity of the lighting model used. There are countless ways that graphics could be improved that have nothing to do with either. I think physics, when it's not part of the game mechanic, is largely graphical. I am looking forward to a generation of consoles that can render hair that doesn't clip into a figure's body, clothing that actually covers a figure rather than being modeled onto it, body masses that jiggle subtly and believably, object damage that isn't canned, buildings with visible interiors... None of those things require more pixels or a radically different shading pipeline.

    5. Re:RTRT is the next hurdle by HuguesT · · Score: 1

      Ray tracing is not an exact reproduction of the real world (very far from it, it does not reproduce quantum effects for instance), it is just a better, but still very crude model.

      What the parent means is that except for rare cases involving lots of transparency, ray tracing images are not worth it.

    6. Re:RTRT is the next hurdle by Lord+Crc · · Score: 1

      Real-Time RayTracing simply isn't going to happen.

      a) It's not desirable. It looks cool for scenes with shiny spheres in them but it doesn't match the way light works in the real world.

      Ray tracing is much faster for very detailed geometry (very high triangle count) compared to scanline rendering.

      Shading can be decoupled using deferred rendering, which a lot (if not most) of modern games use.

      Thus one could envision having specialized raytracing hardware filling a G-buffer which is then shaded using deferred shading techniques.

    7. Re:RTRT is the next hurdle by Savantissimo · · Score: 2

      Take a look at Geomerics. Most of the visual quality that raytracing is supposed to provide is really better handled by radiosity, and Geomerics real-time radiosity and dynamic lighting is the best I have seen. It is being used in the new version of EVE Online and Battlefield 3. CUDA acceleration was just released for the SDK, which should bring radiosity lighting calculations down to less than 3ms/frame.

        It is based on "geometric algebra" (GA,real-valued Clifford algebra) which without any exaggeration is the most general and elegant form of math that can be used to describe physics and geometry. It works in any dimension of any signature, (5D "conformal" with two null-square dimensions being common for graphics) and allows operations and primitives which aren't effectively possible in conventional computer geometry. About half the top people in the GA field founded Geomerics.

      One of the rare experts in GA in the UK who didn't join Geomerics is Ian G.C. Bell who co-wrote Elite, the seminal 3-D and space trading game from which Eve is descended. Ian has a free book, "Maths for (Games) Programmers" online, but the encoding of the HTML math requires using something like Netscape 4.79.

      A far more usable introduction is Leo Dorst's free, small GA Viewer program and its associated pdf tutorials, which include the conformal model. This allows playing with the math visually (and it is fun), while also having rigorous but comprehensible instruction.

      --
      "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" - Patrick Henry
    8. Re:RTRT is the next hurdle by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Thus one could envision having specialized raytracing hardware filling a G-buffer which is then shaded using deferred shading techniques.

      Deferred shading increases bandwidth use which is already a problem and does not handle transparency thus requiring additional processing stages.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    9. Re:RTRT is the next hurdle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wouldn't be so sure. Amongst others, John Carmack and id Software have been claiming for a while that ray casting with sparse voxel octrees will be the next generation leap in graphics, when hardware catches up.

      If that holds true, around the time when SVOs become viable on commodity hardware would be a sweet spot for releasing a new console, in terms of graphics.

    10. Re:RTRT is the next hurdle by grumbel · · Score: 1

      It's an exact reproduction of the real world.

      Raytracing is based on a particles of light, while in real world you have the particle/wave duality. Anyway, you are not going to set up double slit experiments in your games anytime soon, so that is a non-issue in practical terms.

      The only difference is that computers are working from your eye going forward,

      Yeah, but that is exactly what makes computer graphics look so computer generated. You say it like its a small thing, but by shooting rays from the eyes you ignore all indirect lighting and indirect lighting is the very thing that makes things look realistic, without it everything looks like a really shitty computer generated picture. That you get good refraction and reflection doesn't really help you a bit, as neither of these effects really matters much, real world simply isn't build out of shiny glass spheres. Those bits of reflection and refraction that you can get in reallife can easily be faked with environment maps and a bit of displacement mapping, the errors that you get that way are completely negligible.

      And anyway, essentially computer game graphics have already long moved past past direct lighting and all the hip stuff these days are things like subsurface scattering, photon mapping, ambient occlusion, god rays, depths of field and a bunch of other stuff that mostly happens as post-processing step. So if you do the rendering via raytracing or by painting triangles doesn't really matter a lot, as what makes the graphics look the way they do happens afterwards.

      Thats not to say that it wouldn't be nice to have fast hardware raytracing, but we don't, rendering triangles still gives you much better results as it is simply much faster.

    11. Re:RTRT is the next hurdle by grumbel · · Score: 1

      Ray tracing is much faster for very detailed geometry (very high triangle count) compared to scanline rendering.

      Yes, but the issue is that modern hardware can already render as much polygons as there are pixels on the screen (i.e. Uncharted 2 has 1.2 million triangles per frame and only 1280*720 = 921'600 pixel). So that is really more of a theoretical benefit of ray tracing then one that matters in practice and geometry shader will make that even less of an issue in the future, as they can insert triangles on the fly to smooth out round objects.

  8. Quality v. Content by JJJJust · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Graphics aside, it's no secret that there's been a big change from a mantra of "quality, quality, quality" to "content, content, content"... and non-related content at that. A PlayStation did one thing - it played video games. The PS3 can do nearly everything... even function as a computer if you don't upgrade the firmware.

    In prior years, it would take you at LEAST a week to finish a campaign on any respectable video game. These days, you can finish a video game completely in two days. Then spend five more days fiddling with the "bonus content". If they spent more time developing a good story as opposed to unlockables, that race may accelerate again. Developers aren't struggling to use the processing power they have at their disposal. There's no reason for innovation at this particular time.

    We need to get back to a time where developing solid and expansive CORE content -- not extras -- was what mattered.

    1. Re:Quality v. Content by Ruke · · Score: 2

      Why? People seem to enjoy the extras more than they enjoyed the old "monolithic" style of games.

      I'd love to come up with a more nuanced discussion of game design than "no u," but your post contains noting but sweeping generalizations, without citing any specific examples. What PS1 games were so much better than anything that we've got nowadays? What exactly do you mean by "core content" as opposed to "extras" - can you name any historic or current games that exemplify your point?

      From where I'm sitting, I'm having a hard time imagining anything other than you simply being nostalgic for the games that you played as a child. I'm more than willing to believe that this isn't the case; however I'm apparently having a failure of imagination.

    2. Re:Quality v. Content by Superdarion · · Score: 1

      A few weeks ago there was this story on slashdot about how most people don't finish the game's main story anymore. I don't think adding more would do anything to help the perception of quality.

    3. Re:Quality v. Content by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You try play Star Control II without a tutorial, that kind of game would have taken you more than two days to complete because you had to piece everything together. I'm so bad at C&C games that the missions take me ages! That's how I like it.

      With the industry moving toward multiplayer, DLC and 'achievements', I feel like I am being manipulated into playing. I'm not playing for enjoyment, it's for an artificial goal that has been imposed from outside the game, like breaking the forth wall. I just want to play the storyline and enjoy it! I don't give a crap about achivements which they seem to put such a massive empathis nowadays. I like upgrading my character and working my way up, like in Baldurs gate. That's fun.

    4. Re:Quality v. Content by SolemnLord · · Score: 1

      In prior years, it would take you at LEAST a week to finish a campaign on any respectable video game. These days, you can finish a video game completely in two days.

      I've watched people beat Super Mario Brothers in under ten minutes. I guess it's no longer respectable? The time it takes to complete games hasn't changed. Action games (once platformers and top-down shooters, and now FPSes and 3rd person shooters) take a handful of hours to complete. RPGs take tens or hundreds of hours. Casual and arcade games take minutes to play and end up eating hours or even days of your life. I enjoy the Mass Effect series as much as I enjoy Super Mario World. I've also grown up and gained a great number of responsibilities and obligations that cut into the hours I used to spend playing video games. Sure, it "only" took me six hours, over three nights, to play through Portal 2's single player once. I had fun, and didn't feel ripped off. And when I'm playing video games, that's all that matters to me.

    5. Re:Quality v. Content by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      Do people really enjoy them? A lot of the companies still making 'monolithic' games are doing better than the ones pumping out short games with DLC or that rely on achievements to extend the game. Sure there are achievement addicts that buy / rent loads of games to have loads of achievements but can you call that enjoying a game?

      The games people hold in the highest regard are the Super Mario games, the Zeldas, the Starcraft series, etc. They're games that are more 'old school' than new school and they make tons of money. Hell even Pokemon does better than most games and it's virtually the same grind that you played since Pokemon Red/Blue.

      People just don't don't get a choice in most instances because companies refuse to put time and effort to make a long quality game so you're stuck picking the best amongst what you get. As a result a lot of games don't do that well and now publishers finding it harder to make money and everyone's happy to stay on old hardware as long as possible to keep costs down.

    6. Re:Quality v. Content by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1

      It took several weeks to complete each of the Commander Keene games - partly cos it took so long to load from a floppy disk!

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    7. Re:Quality v. Content by boristhespider · · Score: 1

      Try playing Hero Quest on a Sinclair Spectrum or C64. About eight minutes to load from tape... and then another five minutes per level, and another five minutes to save your progress.

    8. Re:Quality v. Content by captjc · · Score: 3, Interesting

      A PlayStation did one thing - it played video games. The PS3 can do nearly everything... even function as a computer if you don't upgrade the firmware.

      The Playstation is a bad example. It was always the Media Center of consoles. The first one gave users a CD player (some say a pretty damn good one too) when most people were just beginning to buy CDs. The PS2 brought DVDs into many people's homes. Lastly, the PS3 is all about Blu-Ray and video streaming.

      If you want an example of only playing games, that is Nintendo. The Wii is their first console that did anything other than play games and even that isn't that much compared to the PS3 or 360.

      In prior years, it would take you at LEAST a week to finish a campaign on any respectable video game. These days, you can finish a video game completely in two days.

      As for single player campaign length, I think there is also the rose-colored glasses of nostalgia in play. I believe that game design has improved much over the last 10 years, length included. On average, games have become shorter, but IMO it is not necessarily a bad thing. I believe that plenty of older games have about the same amount of content (give or take) but seemed to stretch the length out with tricks like too much repetition, back tracking, and difficulty spikes that kept you replaying over and over until you got it right. It only had the perception of length. Go back and play some of those old school classics and see for yourself. Many modern games (the good ones anyway) eschew this (or at least try to keep it to a minimum) in favor of a 8-12 hour campaign.

      For myself, I prefer a game that is 8-12 hours over one that is 40+ hours. Besides the repetition of "kill hoard, reload, repeat" and wading through 20-40 hours of backtracking and kind of crappy story lines it is easy to get either bored and lose interest or say "screw it" and put it into god mode and finish in a few hours. Whereas I can beat a 10 hour game in a day if I really wanted to or a couple hours a day for a few days. If anything, I find myself finishing more games now than when I was a kid.

      What I am saying is the quality is the issue and not length. I have rarely concerned myself with bonus content. Once I finish the game (being the end boss), I am done. I don't care about finding the hidden coins or getting the skulls or every achievement or what-have-you. It is extra content for the "true believers." Don't concern yourself with it if you don't want to but don't fool yourself into thinking that it would be a better game without it. It would be the same game just minus the filler. The big difference is that filler used to be in the campaign, now it is more of an optional extra.

      --
      Slow Down Cowboy! It's been 1 hour, 47 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment
    9. Re:Quality v. Content by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but learning how to complete Super Mario Brothers in under ten minutes takes weeks.

      --
      No sig today...
    10. Re:Quality v. Content by grumbel · · Score: 2

      The time it takes to complete games hasn't changed.

      Yep, some numbers of games I played over the last year:

      Outlaws(1997) ~11h (main story + extra missions)
      Tie Fighter CD-Edition(1994) ~40h (main story + add-on content)
      Mass Effect 2(2010) ~36h (main story + all side quests)
      Dead Space(2008) ~12h (main story)
      Dark Void(2008) ~7h (main story)
      Phantasmagoria(1996) ~6h (main story)
      The Void(2008) ~28h (main story)
      Zelda:OOT (1998) ~30h (main story, no sidequests)
      Batman: Arkham (2009) ~10 + ~7h collecting items
      Metroid Prime (2002) ~16h (main story)
      Metroid Prime 2 (2005) ~24h (main story)
      Metroid Prime 3 (2007) ~14h (main story)
      Metroid 2 (1991) ~4h (main story, but played with map)
      Super Metroid ~6h (main story)
      Random modern European Adventure Games ~8-12h
      Infinite Space DS (2010) ~50h

      It is not exactly a perfect random selection, but contains a bit of everything and it shows that there have been 8-12h games in the past and that there are 30h+ games today and of course vice versa. That's not even counting the console 2D platformers and arcade games that are generally 1h or 2h long and stretch their playtime with lots of retries.

      That said, many games today feel short. I think sometimes it is due to obnoxious cliffhanger endings that leave you unsatisfied and sometimes it is due to games being just to simple and easy to require any kind of effort or thinking, thus 10h of running through a game without ever encountering any problems can feel a lot less then 3h of actual challenge.

      I think a large part is also the fault of main stream press and perception. When games like Modern Warfare get hyped to an extreme and come with a 4h campaign that is going to leave some people wanting more. Same with games like Kayne&Lynch, Homefront or whatever. The issue with those games is that while they are short, they aren't all of todays games, they are a very tiny portion of it, but you very rarely hear as much marketing hype for a 30h+ hour game as you hear for a 5h game. Its the short and consumer friendly games that get the hype, not the hardcore stuff that requires reading a manual and takes 30h, it still exist, it just flies under the radar for most people.

      And for me personally a big issue is also that games today just don't hold up to my past expectations. I mean I played Elite in 1991, X-Wing in 1993, EF2000 in 1994 and Operation Flashpoint in 2000, those where all amazing games in their times and some 10 or 15 years later I simply expect games that far surpass those, yet I far to often see the opposite, games that don't even try to do anything close to what those games accomplished. Instead of building large scale dynamical worlds far to much games limit themselves to simplistic "cinematic" experiences, that feel fake, forced and just aren't much fun.

    11. Re:Quality v. Content by hedwards · · Score: 1

      I finish more games now than I used to. A large part of that is that the games I'm playing tend to have a more realistic learning curve. Also typically if I'm getting frustrated playing it usually gives me something else to do in the mean time. Old school FPS games like Doom and Quake were a real bitch if you couldn't handle a particular part of a level and lacked the determination to load time after time after time for however many tries it took. Granted that's not much of an issue for a hardcore gamer, but for those that aren't so dedicated it can kill the chance at finishing a game.

      Also, bugs that eat saves definitely kill any interest I have in finishing a game.

    12. Re:Quality v. Content by hedwards · · Score: 1

      I got my PS3 primarily for blurays, I also play a few games on it, but it was mostly about blu ray. In retrospect I don't think I would've bothered because by the time the format wars finished the ability to stream more or less replaced my interest in owning.

    13. Re:Quality v. Content by RobDude · · Score: 1

      Maybe it's just me - but I'm really sick of every game having an in-game story-line based tutorial.

      You have to, essentially, 'click next' through 20 minutes of story line crap before you can begin to actually play the game. I miss spending two minutes looking at the controls in the manual while I install and patch the game (which can take a significant amount of time in itself) and figuring it out. Now, you can't skip the tutorial - and if you can - it also requires skipping through some very important/key aspects of the plot.

      I was recently house-sitting and they had an Xbox 360 with a stack of games. I put one in (I think it was Dead Space two) at the same time my wife left to go shopping. When she returned she asked me how the game was and I said, 'I still don't know'

    14. Re:Quality v. Content by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The PS3 can do nearly everything...

      Including giving away credit card number.

    15. Re:Quality v. Content by flimflammer · · Score: 1

      Sure there are achievement addicts that buy / rent loads of games to have loads of achievements but can you call that enjoying a game?

      It's not a chore for everyone. Some people genuinely enjoy the idea of achievements and are actually entertained by completing them. So I would say yes.

    16. Re:Quality v. Content by xhrit · · Score: 1

      I beat the first Half-life in under 2 days. I finished the first Fallout in under a week. I was done with Fallout so fast I was able to return it to Babbages. If I recall correctly I traded it in for X-COM: Apocalypse.

      X-COM: Apocalypse took me a month just to figure out how to avoid getting my team blown up by those little blue poppers.

      On an unrelated note, one of these series is no longer being made. Anyone care to guess what one?

    17. Re:Quality v. Content by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      If you want an example of only playing games, that is Nintendo. The Wii is their first console that did anything other than play games and even that isn't that much compared to the PS3 or 360.

      That's only true in the USA, in Japan the original NES (the Famicom) did a whole bunch of stuff and even the SNES did some other things.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    18. Re:Quality v. Content by flibbidyfloo · · Score: 1

      "We need to get back to a time where developing solid and expansive CORE content -- not extras -- was what mattered."

      I hate to tell you, but those days are gone. With piracy so easy and used-game sales so prevalent, publishers have decided the only way to make enough money to support their bloated budgets is to develop lots of extras that you have to pay for in addition to the CORE content, including DLC, charging for online access, single-user registration for each copy, and in-game payments.

  9. Console creators don't have the motivation by mentil · · Score: 2

    The Wii's successor is rumored to have more horsepower than the Xbox 360/PS3, so it's not like the arm's race is over. Sony and MS simply realized that hardware improvements that have been made possible in the past 6 years don't translate to drastically better graphics sufficient to get people to buy a new console yet. Also, Sony isn't looking forward to selling another $800 machine priced at $599.
    It's easy to forget that 2 console generations ago, consoles output at 320x240 resolution. Now, console games can run at higher resolutions than many computer monitors. The obvious quality improvements that come with increased resolution aren't going to come again in the near future.

    --
    Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
    1. Re:Console creators don't have the motivation by Superdarion · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It also doesn't help that monitors' resolution race has completely halted at 1080p.

    2. Re:Console creators don't have the motivation by Charcharodon · · Score: 2
      It's back on, at least in little spurts. Go over to Dell's website. They have a 27" 2560x1450 monitor for under $1000 now. Which is better than the 2560x1600 which has been sitting at $1500 plus for several years now.

      I think that once the thin is in race is over, should be soon I'm seeing 50" TVs now that less than 3cm thick, they'll get back to ramping up the graphics.

      Personally I'm wanting three of those 27" monitors run off one of ATI's high end offering. Would be very sweet.

    3. Re:Console creators don't have the motivation by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      i used 1024x768 for more than ten years of my life, then i upgraded to 1440x900 I am not a programmer by trade and i'm not as young as i used to be, unfortunately windows handles high resolutions very poorly and as such i would be squinting most of the time to read menus and text on screen..

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    4. Re:Console creators don't have the motivation by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      That's a question of dot pitch, not the number of pixels on the screen.

      eg. For ages the 'standard' resolution was 1280x1024 and you could choose 17" or 19" monitors. The 19" monitors obviously have bigger pixels.

      The same thing still happens...if your eyes aren't as good as they used to be then look for a screen with bigger pixels.

      --
      No sig today...
    5. Re:Console creators don't have the motivation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, but Windows handles high resolutions perfectly, you just handle windows poorly. You need to increase you monitor's DPI setting.

    6. Re:Console creators don't have the motivation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've been waiting for TVs (You know, what you play consoles on) To increase their resolution. They have been stuck at 1080p for a long time now. And i don't seem them raising that anytime soon.

    7. Re:Console creators don't have the motivation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's back on, at least in little spurts. Go over to Dell's website. They have a 27" 2560x1450 monitor for under $1000 now. Which is better than the 2560x1600 which has been sitting at $1500 plus for several years now.

      I think that once the thin is in race is over, should be soon I'm seeing 50" TVs now that less than 3cm thick, they'll get back to ramping up the graphics.

      Personally I'm wanting three of those 27" monitors run off one of ATI's high end offering. Would be very sweet.

      The monitor resolution race is over.
      Right now I'm using a Viewsonic VP2290b with a resolution of 3840 x 2400, and a Mfg. date of November 2001.

    8. Re:Console creators don't have the motivation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's easy to forget that 2 console generations ago, consoles output at 320x240 resolution. Now, console games can run at higher resolutions than many computer monitors. The obvious quality improvements that come with increased resolution aren't going to come again in the near future.

      That's iffy, even if we lean heavily on "many". Though the 360 and PS3 can output 1080, they're rendering something lower and upscaling it. Many of their games aren't even rendered at a full 720. It just turned out to be harder than promised to get high def at reliable framerates on that hardware. Meanwhile, my 2008-era midrange desktop GPU does new PC games fine at 1680x1050 with antialiasing, though depending on the game I now have to turn some features down a little).

      I wouldn't expect the Wii successor to be natively rendering all games at 1080 either, to be honest. I expect it to aim for 1080, with a guarantee of at least 720, and reality to be somewhere in between. Desktop monitor prices for 2560x1400 (or 1600) will drop during that console generation, though. And the next high end TV resolution will be 4K (3840x2160)...

    9. Re:Console creators don't have the motivation by Osgeld · · Score: 1

      not true, most consoles struggle with 720 and there are games today that run at 640, and consoles seem to not know what AA does

    10. Re:Console creators don't have the motivation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Assuming you're not lying about having it, your $8,000 monitor has a 4 Hz refresh rate, dude. That's un-fucking-usable in any real world application beyond word processing and examining medical images.

      Of course, I'm pretty sure you just googled for the higest resolution monitor ever made so you could claim that you had one and feel all bad-ass for a few moments. If you'd been a little more clueful, you might have thought to look at what tradeoffs were made to make that resolution work back in 2001.

    11. Re:Console creators don't have the motivation by moogaloonie · · Score: 1

      Why is resolution still the measure of realism? I remember the FUD during the transition from 16 to 32 bit consoles that would have had people believe graphic quality was limited by the NTSC television standard. Isn't it apparent that any old live action television show still looks far more realistic than any modern game? Compare "L.A. Noire" in HD to an episode of, say, the "Rockford Files" running in 320x240 and tell me the latter isn't far more realistic. Clarity does not equal quality.

    12. Re:Console creators don't have the motivation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the display settings, you can crank up the DPI which will increase the size of everything on the screen to compensate for that.

    13. Re:Console creators don't have the motivation by Spacejock · · Score: 1

      My current screen is a 24" at 1920x1200. I upgraded to Windows 7 from XP just to get the improved desktop & font scaling but it's still not enough. I don't really want to drop to a lower rez, since I am a programmer, but I'm thinking a 32" 1920xwhatever screen might be the go ...

    14. Re:Console creators don't have the motivation by Charcharodon · · Score: 1

      You can't raise resolution of games until the monitor itself can display it, which means consoles will be out in the cold for a long time to come, but games on the PC have already sped on past 1080p. Nothing like playing a game at 5700x1200. Which you can do right now with three 24" 1900x1200 monitors.

    15. Re:Console creators don't have the motivation by atomicbutterfly · · Score: 1

      Nothing like playing a game at 5700x1200.

      So long as you have a graphics card with enough power to drive it at a reasonable frame rate. For something like that you'd need a top-of-the-line graphics card, and they can get bloody expensive. I suppose if you really want to game at this res, you would already have resigned yourself to the cost, but damn if that money couldn't be put towards a new camera or something. :)

    16. Re:Console creators don't have the motivation by Novus · · Score: 1

      Have you tried moving the monitor closer? I use a 24" at 1920x1080, placed about 50-60 cm from my eyes. This is at the lower end of what OSHA suggests, but looks much the same as a 32" display at 70-80 cm. The only difference is whether your eyes can comfortably focus at that distance. I'm myopic enough to need glasses to see anything beyond 30 cm properly, so the decreased viewing distance is not a problem, but if you have even mild hyperopia, I'd advise against this.

    17. Re:Console creators don't have the motivation by Osgeld · · Score: 1

      who said anything about realism? you can see the bandsaw edges and pixels the size of grapes on a console, try this run a game thats available both on console and PC, like fallout 3 side by side, you will punch your mother

  10. Game quality has lagged... by blahplusplus · · Score: 4, Informative

    ... one of the real issues is risk aversion and title stagnation. Every modern game has to cater to the lowest common denominator due to game budgets, in a way the lust for pretty graphics has caused game developers to reduce the game aspect of games and simplify games to such an extent they become little more then stale worlds of aesthetically pleasing art. It's been a long time since I've seen game (not a movie or movie game as I like to call them) based on _just_ the idea of the game rather then going for the special fx and bling. Take the latest L.A. Noire, the more graphical horsepower has increased the less the focus is traditional games and more on cinematic experiences and IMHO that is a negative thing since the more passive games become the less interested I am.

    It's one of the reason I can't stand modern "RPG's" there is barely any participation left because the action gaming mechanics have been ripped out of them to make sure people who don't like participating in their games can watch and run through the content. This is bad because it alienates what many of us got into gaming for in the first place - to participate rather then be pushed through content on a conveyor belt of automated-combat. FF12 takes the cake in what I consider the devolution of games where all you have to do is navigate once you set your auto-battle. At that point why even bother "gaming"? Why not just a walkthrough on youtube of someone else playing and get the same experience for $0 money down?

    1. Re:Game quality has lagged... by hitmark · · Score: 1

      Thankfully it seems we are getting a resurgence of the "shareware" era, this time via steam and the download channels of the xbox360 and ps3. There seems to be a massive number of experimental games coming out via those channels that are made by small teams or individuals, much like how ID Software got started by allowing the first chapter of Wolfenstein 3D and Doom to be shared.

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    2. Re:Game quality has lagged... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullshit, all the innovation continue to happen in indie games just as it always has. The only difference is the companies are different. Back then it was id with Doom, now it's Mojang with Minecraft.

    3. Re:Game quality has lagged... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's one of the reason I can't stand modern "RPG's" there is barely any participation left because the action gaming mechanics have been ripped out of them to make sure people who don't like participating in their games can watch and run through the content.

      Yeah, JRPGs like Final Fantasy are really awful in that regard.

        It's okay, though. Skyrim is coming out in November.

    4. Re:Game quality has lagged... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oblivion might be the worst game I've ever played.

      Arena and Daggerfall might be some of the best, with Morrowind coming in slightly behind. Just because Skyrim is coming out, doesn't mean anything really.

    5. Re:Game quality has lagged... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, he's complaining of action gaming mechanics being ripped out. Skyrim and Oblivion are the opposite of that.

      And what was so bad about Oblivion, especially when compared to Morrowind? They added a pesky layer of fun to the combat? NPCs weren't rigidly planted to the ground enough? They made stealth work half-ass? The guards were slightly less psychic when you stole things? The game wasn't buggy/crashy enough? Dungeons too large and well-made? Guild quests too entertaining? They increased the number of wilderness environment types by 2?

        Or are you of the "giant mushrooms = immersion" school of thought? 'Cause they fixed that issue with Shivering Isles. Heh!

        Alright, I'll grant that the level scaling was borked, but I fixed that the week it came out with the No Levelled Loot and Enemies plugin, and couldn't get why so many people were still bitching about it a year later. (Or for that matter, why all those giant overhaul mods were supposedly necessary. All it took was to stop removing low-level monsters and items when you levelled up and the game's balance became fine.) Hell, Daggerfall had massive game-destroying bugs that required patches, the level scaling in Oblivion was a annoyance for high-level characters in comparison.

        Okay, sure, I can see Oblivion's got some problems compared to say, the Gothic series. (Which has its own problems, but is miles ahead in NPC AI, for example) But it's really a trollerrific stretch to call it the "worst game"... I am forced to assume you've never played any games that were really bad, since that's the only way to make your sentence work.
        I've been playing games since the 80's, and would have to reach pretty fucking hard to place Oblivion below the 80% mark.

    6. Re:Game quality has lagged... by Lanteran · · Score: 1

      I've heard a lot of people say that. I could really never get into daggerfall, what makes you say it's better than morrowind? (Which I think was probably the best game I've ever played)

      --
      "People don't want to learn linux" hasn't been a valid excuse since '03.
    7. Re:Game quality has lagged... by JonySuede · · Score: 1

      go try an old school shooter from http://www.charliesgames.com/ .
      or a rpg from http://basiliskgames.com/

      --
      Jehovah be praised, Oracle was not selected
  11. Consoles never catch up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Consoles never catch up with the PC ... Especially the xbox .. Its made up of sub par components barely adequate for a low powered server. the Sony gizmo is a little better, but its so hard to program, even Prof BrainBox starts to cry. And dont get me started on the Wii , outdated two years BEFORE it went on sale. Wii 2 will be a bit better.

  12. Not prettier, but realer by Leo+Sasquatch · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Graphics look amazing. Crysis on high-res looks like you could open the TV screen and pick a leaf off a tree. But the immersion factor of the gorgeous graphics breaks down when you try to play with them. When you shoot a car windscreen, and it doesn't break. Or shoot the tyres, and they don't pop. Or the gas tank and it doesn't explode.

    Even sillier - shoot your AI squadmates in the head, and they just go "Ow, quit it!". Worse, you have a magic gun that won't let you pull the trigger if you're pointing it at a non-enemy. I played the opening level on Halo Reach, and was so bored when I got to the first farmer, that I just shot him in the head to shut him up so I could get on with alien-killing. Well, the gun went bang, and a blood-spatter hit the wall behind him, but he never missed a word of exposition. I shot him 10 times - the same thing happened. On the 11th shot, I just died. Up until then, my teammates hadn't seemed concerned about my actions, and they didn't actually take offence, just some mighty vengeful god struck me down until I agreed to play nice.

    Or the world looks open and inviting, but you're just as much on rails as if you were playing some arcade light-gun game. Like Bad Company 2, where any deviation from the set path gets you a 5-second countdown to insta-death. Or Gears of War, where you're a grotesquely-muscled space marine who can be forced from his chosen path by three chairs piled on a table.

    The thing is, many games have got bits of it right. Just Cause 2 gives you an enormous world, and near-total freedom within that world. Heavy Rain changes the gameplay based on your actions. The Witcher makes every choice have a consequence you might not like, but at least you get to make the choice. Modern hardware has the power to create incredible, immersive game experiences, but a lot of studios would rather make Big Guns, Shiny Metal 5 using a well-established engine because that's easier, cheaper, and practically guaranteed to sell to their target demographic.

    Maybe the next arms race will be environment engines that come a little closer to replicating the properties of objects, so that glass always breaks, wood and cloth always burn, and you don't need the red key if you've got the rocket launcher.

    1. Re:Not prettier, but realer by Superdarion · · Score: 2

      Or the gas tank and it doesn't explode.

      I know, completely off topic, but I want to mention that the mythbusters busted that myth. Gas tanks don't explode when you shoot them.

    2. Re:Not prettier, but realer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Quite insightful there with the object destruction. Something that's bugged me about the Arma series is that there isn't realistic penetration. It seems like there was some if you shoot a .50 cal through a tiny wooden fence, but it was hardly consistent or predictable.

      It might take a while before it happens in a game, but to me it's a very important thing in a tactical fps -- model ballistics as well as you can. For example, not every tree will stop a 5.56. Some are rotted internally, some have different levels of hardness. That same rifle round may not stay intact through a windshield to strike the target on the first shot while a slower pistol round will. And so forth.

    3. Re:Not prettier, but realer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but a lot of studios would rather make Big Guns, Shiny Metal 5 using a well-established engine because that's easier, cheaper, and practically guaranteed to sell to their target demographic.

      Shut up! The plebs might catch on!

    4. Re:Not prettier, but realer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Depends on what you shoot them with ;-)

    5. Re:Not prettier, but realer by zippthorne · · Score: 2

      We want our games to have movie physics, not real physics. Gas tanks should explode. Walls should be demolished. Explosions should cause only minimal personal injury (nothing more than a little clothing damage and soot on your face) as long as your feet are not on the ground. All bullets should be potentially dodge-able, except for NPCs who have delivered all of their exposition.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    6. Re:Not prettier, but realer by not-my-real-name · · Score: 3, Funny

      Gas tanks don't explode when you shoot them.

      But they should. I say that we all write our representatives and ask for legislation asking that the auto manufacturers add something to cars to make the gas tanks explode when shot. It would be something like what they did with the Pinto, so it shouldn't be too difficult.

      --
      un-ALTERED reproduction and dissimination of this IMPORTANT information is ENCOURAGED
    7. Re:Not prettier, but realer by syousef · · Score: 1

      I played the opening level on Halo Reach, and was so bored when I got to the first farmer, that I just shot him in the head to shut him up so I could get on with alien-killing. Well, the gun went bang, and a blood-spatter hit the wall behind him, but he never missed a word of exposition. I shot him 10 times - the same thing happened. On the 11th shot, I just died. Up until then, my teammates hadn't seemed concerned about my actions, and they didn't actually take offence, just some mighty vengeful god struck me down until I agreed to play nice.

      Fuck me! if there's ever an apocalypse remind me to leave you the fuck behind!!! Not only do you shoot your friends, but you don't learn even after repeating the same thing 10 times!!!

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    8. Re:Not prettier, but realer by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1

      So, you want a gaming experience as realistic as the movies?

    9. Re:Not prettier, but realer by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1

      When "Mythbusters: the Game" is produced, I hope the designers make a note of it.

      Would you prefer to play as James Bond or as an anonymous CIA desk jockey?

    10. Re:Not prettier, but realer by luke923 · · Score: 0

      For some reason, this is reminding me of Michael Moore getting into it with Milton Friedman.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cD0dmRJ0oWg

      --
      "Good, Fast, Cheap: Pick any two" -- RFC 1925
    11. Re:Not prettier, but realer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh HELL NO!

      The reason games are so shitty nowadays, is BECAUSE they strive for "realism" instead of for *fun* and *inspiration*.

      Reality is not something you try to reach. It is something you try to SURPASS!

      Game rules should in no way be required to reflect reality, except for when you want to create a scene in reality.
      Crysis, for example, is not reality at all! And Meatboy definitely isn't!

      I studied the psychology behind how we perceive and process the world very hard. And there is no such thing as facts. Let alone a "one true reality". All you can tell is what you observe through your heavily filtering and processing senses. And all that is required for that to be accepted by you pattern-detector-and-event-predictor called "brain", is consistency.
      Like with films: They break down, as soon as the in-film world becomes inconsistent with itself or with your model of what you thought would be the in-film world.
      So as long as the in-game world is consistent, you can do whatever the fuck you want.

      And for the sake of fun and inspiration, that's what you should do.

    12. Re:Not prettier, but realer by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      While true, it's definitely more fun if you can affect your environment than if you can't. A game that lets you turn a house into a cool explosion, and afterward, there is a crater where the house is, is probably going to be more fun than one where you can throw all kinds of ordnance around without any effect whatsoever.

      Although we don't want to see precisely realistic games, we do want games with the fun parts of realism. And we want games that are games. As in, things you do in the game have an affect on the outcome, and being clever is rewarded. Constrain the actions too much, and you have less of a game and more of a movie.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    13. Re:Not prettier, but realer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not worth playing the Halo series after 2, in the first game if you started shooting an ally everyone in that level would try kill you.

    14. Re:Not prettier, but realer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but that's because of the excitement (way out of default daily life) and the ability to do a apparently big chunk of work with little to no effort (=success at a impressive price).

      So on can generalize it to the logical conclusion, that in a game, there should be a lot of dynamic stuff going on, and you should get a feeling of great success and excitement. :)

      All that still doesn't require realism. It's indifferent to it. :)

  13. It's because hardware has stalled by Gordo_1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Beyond increasing core counts (which appears mostly useless for most gaming engines beyond a couple), nothing much is doing in the world of CPUs these days.

    I remember choosing between a 486 @ 25MHz versus 50MHz for an extra several hundred bucks. That's twice the clock speed within a single CPU generation for those who are keeping track.

    A generation later I purchased a Pentium 75MHz, and 18 months after that upgraded it to 233MHz. That's triple the clock speed.

    I even remember having a 400MHz Pentium (II I believe) and about a year later upgraded to a 1GHz P3. That's 2.5 times, not to mention the greater efficiency per clock of a P3 vs a P2.

    I now sit with a nearly *5 year old* dual core 2.4GHz CPU (overclocked to 3.3GHz mind you) and I can't find even a $1000 CPU that will give me anywhere near a worthwhile performance bump for anything other than super specific parallelizable applications like scientific computations or workstation-style 3D rendering.

    This transistor efficiency stall has also hit the GPU market in the past few years. Have a look at how much Nvidia or AMD have pushed top end GPU performance in the past couple years. They're making incremental 15-20% bumps per generation -- that's nothing like back in the TNT/3dfx days when you could count on a 50-100% framerate jump with each successive generation.

    Consoles are stalled because GPU/CPU technology is stalled. If CPUs and GPUs were were keeping up with the previous pace from the 90s, we'd have software/games that pushed those limits.

    1. Re:It's because hardware has stalled by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      facts aside, hardware has lagged and stalled.

      + insightful imo

    2. Re:It's because hardware has stalled by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Clock speed is not an accurate measure of overall performance. PC graphics are already far beyond what consoles can hope to do even with tricks like upscaling and interpolation.

    3. Re:It's because hardware has stalled by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry but it doesn't seem like you have any clue of the gaming world. It's the one field in consumer computing where you still could use every bit of power provided by the hardware.

      If you compare the latest generation of consoles with an up to date PC you'll see that the consoles don't even come close in terms of performance anymore (we aren't talking about 1 or 2 generations passing since their release. Those things are from the stone-age. They could barely keep up with the computers of their time). There is no "stalling" yet (it might come but we aren't there yet).

      What is stalling however is the capability of the software to use the extra power. Since it's the common perception is that money is made on consoles, games are written for the legacy hardware found in those. PC ports are becoming an afterthought you do to get a bit of additional payoff from your console game.

      Consoles aren't stalled because of technology. They are stalled because they are, at this point, cashcows that print money. Updating to new technology would mean raising prices or starting to subsidize the new generation (again). Then there's platform fragmentation (why doesn't this xbox (480) game run on my xbox 360?) and a whole lot of inertia (how many consoles are already out there?).

      In short: It's not hardware

    4. Re:It's because hardware has stalled by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most of today's games are more GPU- than CPU-heavy. I don't even think most games have that much of a use for a 4Ghz CPU, let alone 10 cores clocked at that. As far as GPU tech is concerned, core count is much more important than clock speed, so the efficiency of transistors isn't the bottleneck (apart from power drain, that is).

      So, I don't think we've hit the ceiling hardware-wise. We are certainly stalling on the software side, however. Just look at WinXP still having >50% market share, even though it doesn't support new versions of DirectX. It simply doesn't make business sense to release a game on PC that requires the latest hardware when the vast majority of users can't even use new hardware they might have. You are forced to develop for the lowest common denominator, which is DirectX 9, unless you are targeting enthusiasts.

      Consoles suffer from similar problems. They could develop native games for each platform that push the hardware to its limits, like they were doing in the PS2 era. Instead, devs aim to get their games on all platforms, so again they develop stuff that can be ported everywhere with minimal effort/cost. So, you get games that run exactly the same on both XBOX and PS3, but look worse than they would had they been created specifically for either platform.

      Today's mentality is the reverse of what it used to be: once upon a time, devs would develop for the most powerful platform and cut stuff out to optimise for the lesser configs; today, they develop for the lowest platform and add a couple of things in when porting to more powerful platforms. It's just more economical that way.

      At the end of the day, the arms race is stalling because of a mix of bad business decisions, a bad economy, no unified APIs/toolkits/whatever for porting and optimising code and graphics, and the fact that games have been turned into a faceless, cutthroat industry that only cares to push out 'good-enough(TM)' product and take your money.

    5. Re:It's because hardware has stalled by lucian1900 · · Score: 1

      That's largely because most of the low-hanging fruit has been picked, and also because of the stronger focus on efficiency there is now. I think it's good, we don't need more powerful machines. My 800mhz ARM netbook is fast enough for most things, and a 2.4ghz dual-core CPU is good enough for anything.

    6. Re:It's because hardware has stalled by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But 3D rendering (rasterised or raytraced) is one of those super specific parallelizable applications. Compare the trailer for Skyrim with videos of Morrowind. We've come a long way in the last 10 years.

    7. Re:It's because hardware has stalled by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This transistor efficiency stall has also hit the GPU market in the past few years. Have a look at how much Nvidia or AMD have pushed top end GPU performance in the past couple years. They're making incremental 15-20% bumps per generation -- that's nothing like back in the TNT/3dfx days when you could count on a 50-100% framerate jump with each successive generation.

      Consoles are stalled because GPU/CPU technology is stalled. If CPUs and GPUs were were keeping up with the previous pace from the 90s, we'd have software/games that pushed those limits.

      Expect more of the same as Intel moves from desktop centric thinking to laptops/mobile. For the average person, the extra $50 or so for a laptop or $5 extra a month for a smartphone is worth it. I hate to say it, but the sun is setting on desktops.

    8. Re:It's because hardware has stalled by locketine · · Score: 1

      The PS3 has 7 cores and game developers are making good use of them. The 360 has 3 and the game developers are making even better use of them. I have a quad core and even Portal 2 makes use of all of my cores. What you say was true back in 2007 when the first quad-core came out and the Cell was just starting to get used but multi-threaded applications are the norm now, at least in the computation and gaming markets.

      Also, hz is not all that matters when it comes to CPU's. Heck, it's barely relevant unless comparing within the exact same production run of CPU's but this is all pretty obvious by looking at game benchmarks for PC. Check out this one for Farcry 2 which was released what, 3 years ago?.

      I don't know where you're getting these performance percentages but as far as I know there hasn't been any slowdown in performance improvements when measured against time.

      --
      Think globally but act within local variable scope.
    9. Re:It's because hardware has stalled by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Expect more of the same as Intel moves from desktop centric thinking to laptops/mobile. For the average person, the extra $50 or so for a laptop or $5 extra a month for a smartphone is worth it. I hate to say it, but the sun is setting on desktops.

      THANK YOU, I'm glad someone gets it, even if they don't log in. As quad-core notebooks, tablets and phones with HDMI output roll out the last reasons for the average user to buy a desktop will vanish. Microsoft has already managed to sabotage PC gaming such that most people won't bother.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    10. Re:It's because hardware has stalled by RzUpAnmsCwrds · · Score: 1

      I now sit with a nearly *5 year old* dual core 2.4GHz CPU (overclocked to 3.3GHz mind you) and I can't find even a $1000 CPU that will give me anywhere near a worthwhile performance bump for anything other than super specific parallelizable applications like scientific computations or workstation-style 3D rendering.

      You're not looking hard enough.

      I have a laptop with a 2.53GHz Core 2 Duo Penryn (which is actually a better architecture than your Conroe or Athlon 64). It's a fine machine.

      I also have a desktop with an i7-2600, a $300 CPU.

      It's night and day when you push the machine. Even in single-threaded code the i7 is about twice as fast, and in multi-threaded code it's 3x, 4x, or even more in many cases.

      Clock for clock, Sandy Bridge chews up the first-generation Core 2 CPUs and spits them out. And then my i7 is clocked higher - much higher.

    11. Re:It's because hardware has stalled by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're quite right. The hardware has stalled because the device physics has stalled. In the good old days, making a device smaller made the chip cheaper (less die area) and the circuits faster (less capacitance, less resistance) and the power consumption less (lower voltages, less dynamic power). But the problem came in that the horizontal dimensions were shrinking faster than the vertical ones. So, the transistor gates's thicknesses (vertical) couldn't shrink as fast as the area dimensions (horizontal) of the transistors. And if they could, the leakage would be huge because they pretty much reached the physical vertical limit before the horizontal limit. There's only so many angstroms thick you can make a silicon dioxide transistor gate before any voltage at all just causes all the electrons to tunnel through. Scaling devices for performance improvements is about done. The device improvements now are coming from either new materials (ie: hi-K metal gates) or entirely new techniques (ie: fin fets) and none of that is cheap.
      You may not realize this, but the next ~20nm generation is so small, we can no longer even describe it in the sizes of human hairs - those are in 40-120 microns, over a thousand times bigger. 20 nanometer transistors are as small as the smallest viruses. That astounds me, but what astounds me more is that these tiny devices are being imaged from light sources that are huge by comparison, around 200nm wavelengths or 10 times bigger. Which is why nobody could ever see viruses under microscopes, no matter how much magnification you had, you could never get visible light to resolve anything that small.

  14. On the bright side ... by lennier1 · · Score: 1

    At least it's slowed down because many games are developed with consoles in mind, tacking on a port to the PC in the last minute and therefore coming nowhere near what a PC game could look like.
    Shitty controls on the PC (e.g., Dead Space, Prototype, Star Wars: Force Unleashed) are just an extra bonus because someone simply tried to map the gamepad buttons to the keyboard.

    1. Re:On the bright side ... by captjc · · Score: 1

      While I have played many a game that has been ruined by bad controls, at least many companies are now allowing the use of gamepads (usually 360 controllers only) to play them as they would be played on a console.

      What I can't stand is not giving that option (I am looking at you, "Beyond Good and Evil"). What is worse is games that don't even allow key remapping. Both are uncalled for in this day and age.

      --
      Slow Down Cowboy! It's been 1 hour, 47 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment
    2. Re:On the bright side ... by lennier1 · · Score: 1

      Maybe, but if I wanted to use a gamepad I'd be using a console in the first place.

      I won't cut my car in half just because someone only paved a road barely wide enough so a motorcycle can use it, leaving only a small empty strip on each side "just in case".

    3. Re:On the bright side ... by captjc · · Score: 1

      Not everyone want to spend the money on a console when they have a perfectly good PC.

      Beyond Good and Evil is a good example. It is a bad port with horrible controls. I bought it during a Steam sale never thinking about it. When I tried playing it, I found it practically unplayable. Had they given support for a gamepad, I would at least be able to play it like the console version. However, the mentality of "Gamepads are for consoles, Mouse / Keyboard are for PCs" render the game useless.

      The fact is that PC ports will almost always be rushed. But when a game is developed for a gamepad, there is no reason to remove gamepad support just because it is on PC.

      (Yes I know I can get software to map keys to the gamepad, but that is besides the point)

      --
      Slow Down Cowboy! It's been 1 hour, 47 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment
    4. Re:On the bright side ... by tepples · · Score: 1

      if I wanted to use a gamepad I'd be using a console in the first place.

      Even for games from indie developers too small to be eligible for PS3 or Wii development?

    5. Re:On the bright side ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why should I? Games are cheaper on the PC hit the bargain bin earlier. I probably spent way less on my PC centric gaming rig the last 3 years than I did on the console (I just bought a cheap 150 USD Graphics card)
      The gamepad is perfectly fine on the PC and third person games simply play better with a pad while first person games play better with a PC.

  15. Replayability and multiplayer are related! by Superdarion · · Score: 1

    and core gamers far more likely to continue happily playing on two-, three- or even four-year-old PCs than they were in the past....

    What? People played starcraft for ten years! What about Diablo 2? Warcraft 3? Age of Empires? All these have in common two things: First, they're from related genres, which just comes to show my ignorance on other genres. Second, they have really strong multiplayer, which adds replayability far beyond that provided by a good story.

    1. Re:Replayability and multiplayer are related! by boristhespider · · Score: 1

      To be honest I even still play Warcraft 1 a lot. That gets replay value not so much from multiplayer but from the fun of utterly annihilating the opposition by camping fifty archers on the path from their village to yours and then building an enormous city with a ludicrously large army. Warcraft had its flaws but for me it's still the most fun "strategy" game I've played.

      I'm going to go and play that now, actually.

      (Also, I want to play Thief again. I might set up a Win98 virtual machine simply to be able to play it...)

    2. Re:Replayability and multiplayer are related! by John+Saffran · · Score: 1

      and core gamers far more likely to continue happily playing on two-, three- or even four-year-old PCs than they were in the past....

      What? People played starcraft for ten years! What about Diablo 2? Warcraft 3? Age of Empires? All these have in common two things: First, they're from related genres, which just comes to show my ignorance on other genres. Second, they have really strong multiplayer, which adds replayability far beyond that provided by a good story.

      Good point, I think you can add modability to the list of characteristics of games that live for a long time .. I was just playing a Rome Total War (initially released in 2004) mod today, and frankly it stands up better 'playability' wise than the latest iteration of the series.

      The pressures of the development and release cycles mean that most games are released somewhat half to nearly finished state, with many having release day patches, so it generally takes in the order of years for a game (plus expansions) to reach where it can be considered done from a development status. Add gameplay updates by modders, eg. graphical refreshes, story extension or unit rebalancing, and that adds a few more years to the life of a game.

      There's hundreds of games released every year, yet those that have some unique characteristic seem to live for a long time. You might generalise that as a 'community', be it a multiplayer community or a modding community .. these games live a long time.

    3. Re:Replayability and multiplayer are related! by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      That some games are good and have long lifetimes is irrelevant to the point.

      Right now you can buy a new AAA game and it will run on a 3 year old PC, that wasn't cutting edge when it was bought and has had no upgrades at all, just fine. That was unheard of not that long ago.

      Obviously a 5 year old game will run on a 5 year old PC (well ignoring the odd game famous for needing super hardware).

  16. Very yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hardware is becoming more powerful than the software requires most of the time that it throws the development prices up too high.
    And in the case of PS3, the size of the disc is more than enough space for your average games. (but this has the advantage of intelligent data mirroring to improve loads)

    Not to mention this recession has been making a huge dent in everything for a while now.
    Hopefully this will wake up developers of all areas to better ways to manage project spending, better techniques to develop in their specific areas and not be as wasteful. Oh, and not cheap out too much and have to pay millions to cover the screw-up later on. (Looking at you, Microsoft)

    Many developers are waking up to the small-scale games market (finally) and throwing out some nice, simple, small games that are actually really fun to play.
    I wish more of them would do this.
    I'd give anything for some classic-style RPG games up there, it is the perfect marketplace for them.
    Come on Square Enix, you should be doing this!

    All of these factors have some contribution.
    And in my personal opinion, I think it is a good thing.
    Software is easier to update than hardware. And you don't need to deal with compatibility problems as often, either.
    Look at the different versions of hardware with 360 and PS3, that has confused the hell out of people as it is.
    3 visible versions should be the only thing people should have to care about at the most. A basic version, a standard version, and a premium version. There should be no in-betweens that people should have to care about. It should just work.

    As for the PC industry. Digital Platforms like Steam, GfW, those are keeping gaming afloat. More and more indie developers are flocking to these platforms since it is accepted as pretty fair DRM methods for the services it offers and has a decent number of users.
    As these platforms grow, the more your average PC users join it. These are people who just barely know about PC hardware as it is. They aren't going to be going out every year buying new hardware just to play the latest greatest games that don't exist.
    That "don't exist" part, too, came from the recession. The latter half of the decade slowed down considerably.
    Games Developers are trying to target as many people as possible now. This means gimping the engine to play on lower end platforms. This is a wrong approach, but it is the cheapest approach since PC industry still deals with a lot of piracy too. They can't be spending time making the game scale perfectly from a netbook to a near-super computer without losing a huge amount of money if they game bombs. It is way too risky.

  17. Yeah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My last upgrade was in '07. I intended then that I would've upgraded by now, but it hasn't been necessary. Then again, I'm a gamer who's finding more value in the classics, including emulated classics, than in "Arkham Asylum" or whatever the latest blockbuster was.

    1. Re:Yeah by boristhespider · · Score: 1

      Likewise. I'm finding myself playing games on DOSBox and emulated Megadrives/SNESs/Game Gears/Sinclair Spectrums on the infrequent occasions that I play much. The last console I bought for myself was a GameCube and it sits almost unused alongside my DreamCast and a second-hand XBox. (I do still play Perfect Dark on my N64 a lot though.)

  18. development has shifted, not stalled by dutchwhizzman · · Score: 2

    The power you have from your dual core and graphics card, can now be had for half the electricity bill, probably less. True, if they could, they'd double performance and have you choose which one you wanted, but they did find a place where they could improve.

    It may not mean much to you, but here, in Europe, we have significant taxes on electricity and it can save you US$100/month if you just turn off one of those heavy computers of yours. I used to have a few servers running in the meter closet for firewalling and fileserving. Right now, I have a WRTG for firewalling and a popcorn with a USB drive for files. This has taken my electricity bill down by over US$1000 per year.

    Although I agree that game development has stalled and hardly uses the extra RAM and cores, I do think they will do so in the future. The better the physics models of the cars you emulate are, the longer you'll want to play the game. The more variation in any form of AI, the more fun you'll have playing. Running things like physics models or AI on separate cores will eventually make game play better. It's just a matter of time before game companies figure that out. Regarding revenue, I think WoW has figured out how to keep on making money from a game that essentially isn't that special.

    --
    I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
  19. WTF? by vlm · · Score: 1

    It used to seem like a reliable idea that every five years or so, consoles would catch up to the PC

    Well, that's a mistaken idea.

    Assuming they mean meaningless specs-man-ship, I've had a 1600x1200 monitor on my desk since the late 90s or so... Not sure which console in the early 00s "caught up" to that.

    Assuming they mean variety of gameplay, where's my hex strategic wargames? My non-arcade flight sims? Assuming we start the console era around 1980, that means they're about 30 years late?

    --
    "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
  20. Stalled alongside the economy by antifoidulus · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The console arms race has stalled largely because the economy has stalled. Developing a console, investing in manufacturing facilities etc. is quite an expensive process, one that a company really doesn't want to go through unless they feel that they will be able to sell the console as well as a large number of games for it. In this economy, it's going to be very hard for people to rationalize plopping down $500 or $600 for a new console. Furthermore, since console hardware capabilities are (relatively) fixed, by the time the economy picks up again your competitor will be able to utilize the latest and greatest technology to come out with a console that is better than yours, and you will be stuck like that for the entire life cycle of the console. So there is actually a rather large disincentive to release a new console at this point. The risk to reward ratio is simply too great.

    1. Re:Stalled alongside the economy by hedwards · · Score: 1

      That's not likely, as somebody posted somewhere else, this is a really good time for Nintendo and the rest to double down on R&D so that coming out of the recession when wallets open up they've got a new set of hardware to sell. Especially since they should be doing that anyways.

    2. Re:Stalled alongside the economy by Daetrin · · Score: 1

      Except if you're Nintendo, who can come out with four year old tech (in terms of consoles) and market it as amazingly better than the Wii and marginally better than the PS3 and 360, and since the tech is four years old they can put it at a fairly reasonably price point instead of the $500 or $600 a new PS3 or 360 equivalent might be at. What you say _does_ apply to Sony and Microsoft however, who have to wait until they can produce something significantly more powerful than their previous hardware at a price the current economy can support.

      --
      This Space Intentionally Left Blank
    3. Re:Stalled alongside the economy by pckl300 · · Score: 1

      In this economy, it's going to be very hard for people to rationalize plopping down $500 or $600 for a new console.

      I know a certain company seems to be doing very well selling their iProducts around those prices.

      --
      In the beginning, there was null.
    4. Re:Stalled alongside the economy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gonna have to disagree with you on that.

      Well before the economies of the world started to go south, the Wii was looking like the omg platform. And it's really moved in that direction. New controllers, new styles of games and lower levels of graphics have been out-selling bling processors and cutting edge optical drives. There's always the potential for a new type of game engine or display to speed up the silicon development & deployment, but there's nothing really ready just yet.

      And the console manufacturers know this is the case. That's why everyone's kinda holding their breath atm. Certainly the pump-and-dump 3d 1st person shooters are ending their useful lives.. and the huge franchises with tiny yearly updates are nearly dead. So where's the next gaming boom going to come from?

      When that question has been answered, I'm perty sure that the console manufacturers will have their systems on the market sharpish.

  21. If you got steam... by Nrrqshrr · · Score: 1

    Check out the best selling game for this week... Yes, an Indie game.
    I used to be one of those kids who enjoy tuning their computers and upgrading RAM and graphic cards every year, but now I don't really have any reason to do that anymore. I spend my gaming time playing indie games like Terraria, Minecraft, or, recently, AI War
    Of course it's not really indie games' fault for the whole race slowing down, but you know there is something wrong when you are more satisfied by games made by one or two guys than by those made by big studios. (ok, nothing particularly wrong with that, actually, but whatever)

  22. It's too expensive that's why by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

    I think console gaming has been coming really shit lately mainly with Microsoft tainting it with the PC gaming mentality. It's now more acceptable to release shit in a broken state, we get less variety and more sequels. I think MS and Sony relied far too much on pushing the limits with hardware and need to keep their consoles around longer to help everyone recoupe their costs.

    I don't think it's that impressive that MS is breaking compatibility for a a new disc format. I appreciate that they will replace the console for free but why should I go without a console for days or weeks for a software update? If gaming is so expensive that they just can't afford to ship games on multiple discs then I think they're doing something wrong.

    I think they're also unsure what to do because the next generation will yet again be even more expensive and they realised they got owned by the cheap outdated Wii and I wonder if they can even afford to let that happen again.

    Nintendo's Wii may not have been as exciting technically but they did the right thing and they were right in that HD was unnecessary. Even a year or two ago the stats were saying most people did not use HD with their xbox 360.

    1. Re:It's too expensive that's why by dadelbunts · · Score: 1

      How is an HD unnecessary? I load ALL my xbox 360 games into my hdd as soon as i get them. Why would i want slower load times and increased wear on my dvd drive? Burned through like 4 PS2's like that. Not to mention i dont have to worry about disc wear. You can also purchase full titles for direct download. Honestly it seems to me like you just have an anti MS stance.

    2. Re:It's too expensive that's why by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      No, I meant HD as in HD-TV. Statistically very recently (maybe even now) the majority of 360 owners still use SD-TV. My point being that while NIntendo's hardware options are boring they were good enough and not too expensive so the risks were much lower and I think they made the right choice.

    3. Re:It's too expensive that's why by RobDude · · Score: 2

      The HD is a mixed blessing. Sure - you get faster load times and you don't have to worry about disc wear. That's good.

      But it also allows system upgrades/patches/install time/bugs and bug fixes. These were all problems PCs used to have that consoles didn't. And they suck. I hate buying a new game, coming home, being told my PS3 needs to update itself, then installing the game and being told the game needs to update itself. In the old days, when you sent your RTM build to the M, that was it. If you had a bug in the game, it would be there *forever*. If you had one bug that broke the gameplay, you had a ruined game. Testing was really important. So companies did it. Console gaming used to be a lot more user-friendly/bug free than PC gaming; because a PC game could be released *with bugs* and they'd just release a patch later.

      From what I remember, Fallout 3 (while I loved the game) crashed all the friggin time until you had six months of patches applied to it. Before your console had a hard-drive and internet connection - that was a deal breaker. Now, well, just play your $50 game, crash, curse, wait a while, download, update, play some more, etc....

      And it's not just issues with the individual games. It's the system itself. I *hate* buying a new a game, coming home, and being told I need to 'update my system'. What? I never, ever had to update my NES, SNES, SEGA, or GameCube. But now updating my PS3 is a regular occurrence. And look at all the problems that's caused - updates can actually take away functionality you already had (OtherOS). And, let's face it, at some point - you won't be able to update it anymore. Servers aren't free, and Sony has a long history of shutting down servers (without warning) when they weren't profitable. So, if you find an old PS3 in a box at some garage sale - you'd have a nightmare of a time figuring out what version firmware it has and what version is required by each game....I want to play Portal 3 - but that doesn't run unless the PS3 has Firmware 3.6 installed. And where on Earth can I find a 20 year old firmware update now that Sony has gone out of business/doesn't care?

    4. Re:It's too expensive that's why by Peil · · Score: 1

      I think the poster was referring to High Definition, rather than Hard Disk Drive.

  23. Graphics by lyinhart · · Score: 0

    I can't believe people are settling for the current generation's graphics when they could be so much better. Think about a Grand Theft Auto type of open world game with character models as good as a one-one-one fighting game, that would look amazing. It's not necessarily about photorealism - it's about pushing the boundaries of current technology.

    And the new consoles should at least render games natively in 1080p. The current generation can't even do that with the vast majority of games: http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=46241 Indeed, most games render natively at 720p, when virtually no TV available does 720p natively. So you end up with a horribly stretched out picture with most displays.

    --
    Freedom is drinking a beer in the park when you're supposed to be at work.
  24. bash vs csh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, it has stalled. Bash development seems to be at a standstill, and csh has fallen off the face of the planet. Only Microsoft has done much recently with Powershell.

  25. Because the manufacturers lose money on consoles. by jpapon · · Score: 1
    Manufacturers are not making new consoles simply because they lose money on each console sold. They have to recoup those losses through game sales. They clearly have very little incentive to release a new console, since the longer they can keep milking the old ones, the more profitable they become.

    The exception is the Wii, which actually was in the black for each unit. Not surprisingly, it seems that Nintendo is going to be the first to release a next-generation console. Hopefully this will force MS/Sony to release new consoles as well to keep up.

    --
    -- Let us endeavor so to live that when we pass even the undertaker shall be sorry. -- M. Twain
  26. Fun is the key by archer,+the · · Score: 1

    I'm still happy with my PS2. I have no interest in taking the chance of spending $300+ on a new console and game, when I have no confidence I'll find a game I like. After all, there are no returns once the packages are open...

    1. Re:Fun is the key by captjc · · Score: 1

      I have no interest in taking the chance of spending $300+ on a new console and game, when I have no confidence I'll find a game I like. After all, there are no returns once the packages are open...

      It is a BS excuse. A new 360, PS3 or Wii can be had for $200 and older games for like $20 new. The used game market is filled with great games for relatively cheap. As for finding a game you like, that is what friends and online reviews are for.

      --
      Slow Down Cowboy! It's been 1 hour, 47 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment
  27. Remember also.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is the first really severe economic crash we've had in the "computing age". There has been small crashes in the past, but nothing of this sort of scale. It was bound to have some effect on development cycles, and certainly it has had an effect on consumer habits.

  28. The great recession? TSMC's stall? by TurtleBay · · Score: 2

    Don't forget, we also just came out of a crazy bad recession. This would have been a bad time to release a new console and it is harder for the companies to justify console development costs when investors are demanding cost cutting. Additionally, TSMC has been stuck for over a year on the 40 nm node. The cancellation of the 32 nm process may have impacted some of the plans of the console makers. If they were planning on a chip that simply wouldn't be feasible/economical without a die shrink, then now have to wait for 28 nm to become a widely available and high yielding process, but so far this process is not ready for production silicon. TSMC won't be able to produce the quantity or yield of parts that the console makers will need on 28 nm until at least early 2012.

  29. Yeah, the IPhone won by 2bfree · · Score: 2

    With smartphones becoming the main computer for the general public (not the /. crowd of course) it's no surprise that phones will take over as the main game 'console' for consumers. Video Game companies are still coming to grip or flat out ignoring this reality and $1.99 games.

  30. Re:Because the manufacturers lose money on console by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Exactly... it is because Microsoft and Sony spent a lot of money getting their consoles to be great where as Nintendo wanted an interactive console. Microsoft and Sony are now reaping the benefits of having a next-gen console and more games that are finally coming out. They are playing the long-con(release a next-gen console, and wait for money to trickle in from game sales), where as Nintendo went with interactivity instead of graphics, reducing their hardware cost and overall cost as a result, playing the short-con (maximum sales in the shortest amount of time). This and their interactive console shot up game sales as many kids, and some adults went out to buy the interactive games. Microsoft and Sony have no need to upgrade, but Nintendo needs to upgrade their consoles because they are getting killed on the graphics front(hell the Wii doesn't even have a dvd player). Oh and others are right, there has been no real upgrades in any CPUs or GPUs for a while now. They just add more without making what we have faster which is what would really help especially on games.

    However, I do not agree that Sony and Microsoft will have to release a new console... there is no reason for them to, and even if the Wii2 or whatever they are gunna call it gets HD graphics finally, they still have nothing on either console. Think about it, the Connect and the Sony Move gave them the interactivity that the Wii had over them, what else do they need? Nintendo is just trying to keep up

  31. I'm glad by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

    more detailed content, more expansive storytelling, more progress in areas that have been neglected in the former headlong rush to cram more polygons and effects onto every screen

    And that's a good thing.

    Can we get some new RPG from LucasArt now? Something as good as Monkey Island, Day of the Tentacle and Full Throttle?

    1. Re:I'm glad by lennier · · Score: 1

      Can we get some new RPG from LucasArt now? Something as good as Monkey Island, Day of the Tentacle and Full Throttle?

      Is there even a LucasArts left?

      I miss Dark Forces.

      --
      You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
    2. Re:I'm glad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are still point&click adventures being made, even text adventures still have a good scene. They're just not that popular.

    3. Re:I'm glad by grumbel · · Score: 1

      Can we get some new RPG from LucasArt now?

      Those were point&click adventures not RPG. And while LucasArts is kind of dead in that area, the people working on those titles in the first place are still alive and doing games, namely TellTale Games and DoubleFIne, and they have put out quite a few adventure games in the last years.

  32. Game is what makes the hardware by motang · · Score: 1

    I think with enough power under the hood it really comes down to the games. But with many third party games going multi-platform then this boils down to first party titles.

  33. multi-platform titles killed it. by metalmaster · · Score: 1

    Aside from the occasional must-have exclusive title, Its the large studios that make games that everyone wants to play. They know this, so they publish for anything and everything with a controller. To do this, they'll include enough game content to satisfy the lowest common denominator. A recent title that felt this sting is Rockstar's new baby "LA Noire." According to an interview with Bondi Games developers the title fit on 6 discs at one point. It has been compressed to 3 discs, so I wonder what was left on the cutting room floor aside from things mentioned in that article.

    Im not a content developer, nor do I play one on slashdot. I'd imagine that the methods to put discs on differ between platforms, and the storage medium affects things like compression. More storage means more content, right?

  34. Apps that break at other densities by tepples · · Score: 1

    Windows handles high resolutions perfectly, you just handle windows poorly. You need to increase you monitor's DPI setting.

    Go ahead. Set your PC's density to 160 DPI to match your monitor and viewing distance. And watch applications whose developers have never thoroughly tested them at any density other than 96 DPI break.

    1. Re:Apps that break at other densities by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Windows isn't perfect at it, but Windows 7 at least does a lot better at it than XP. In particular, you can tell it that an application doesn't handle scaling right and it will instead render it at 96 DPI or whatever and then scale the resulting image. It's blurry and looks bad, but it works for the applications that have broken high-DPI support.

  35. How to sign up for PS3 dev? by tepples · · Score: 1

    Thankfully it seems we are getting a resurgence of the "shareware" era, this time via steam and the download channels of the xbox360 and ps3.

    Xbox 360 I'll grant you because it has Xbox Live Indie Games. But where is the form to sign up for SCEA's PLAYSTATION 3 developer program? http://www.tpr.scea.com, the developer relations site that this press release cites, hasn't been responding for over a month now.

  36. Acceptable break from reality by tepples · · Score: 1

    I played the opening level on Halo Reach, and was so bored when I got to the first farmer, that I just shot him in the head to shut him up so I could get on with alien-killing. Well, the gun went bang, and a blood-spatter hit the wall behind him, but he never missed a word of exposition.

    That could be considered one of the acceptable breaks from reality, designed to keep players from finding themselves in an unwinnable situation and abandoning not only the game but also other games from the same developer or publisher. Sierra's reputation for allowing the player to unknowingly create unwinnable situations soured a lot of gamers to the entire adventure game genre.

    1. Re:Acceptable break from reality by creat3d · · Score: 0

      While you're correct about Sierra adventures, I'm sure Roberta Williams' writing also had a lot to do with it...

      --
      Grammar nazis are to this community what excrements are to gold.
    2. Re:Acceptable break from reality by lennier · · Score: 1

      You bastard, you linked me to TVtropes. Now I'll be there all week. Thanks a lot!

      --
      You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
    3. Re:Acceptable break from reality by Narcogen · · Score: 1

      Missing all of the dialogue in that scene in Halo Reach would not create an unwinnable situation. Regardless of what the player does at that point, when the scene ends you get a new waypoint, and the only way to proceed in the level is the correct path to take. There is no wrong path.

      You can test this just by walking right past that area and never paying attention to those characters. You can freely advance to the next area without ever hearing any of that dialogue. Those characters also are not invulnerable. Melee them in the back and you'll find they die (and the player character is instakilled; this happens in Reach when you kill a civilian, there or in other levels as well).

      There's actually no justification for this in that scene except that once Bungie bothered to try and put the scene in Hungarian, they wanted to make sure you witnessed it.

  37. Autosave and permanent death by tepples · · Score: 1

    Also, bugs that eat saves definitely kill any interest I have in finishing a game.

    Does this include games specifically programmed to automatically save continuously, including a save after your character has died?

    1. Re:Autosave and permanent death by hedwards · · Score: 1

      I've been fortunate enough not to get bit by that yet. I have however had save points which left me too close to a really hard part after I'd lost all chances to fix whatever it was that caused the battle to be unwinnable though. Forcing me to backtrack from earlier.

  38. If they want to charge extra for multiplayer by tepples · · Score: 1

    But when a game is developed for a gamepad, there is no reason to remove gamepad support just because it is on PC.

    Other than that the publisher wants to sell one copy per person rather than one copy per household. A lot of PC games don't have any support for a shared-screen multiplayer mode (which need not be split in all genres), and a lot of console games built around shared-screen multiplayer (especially one that isn't split) don't get ported to PC at all. They don't care that you have a TV monitor and four Xbox 360 gamepads hooked up to your PC; they want to sell two to four copies of the game instead of just one.

  39. Price of games. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Games cost a lot to develop. The asset modelling alone is very laborious, and producers can't get away with reusing assets like they used to for stretching campaigns.

    Even dialogue audio is expected to be professionally acted, or reviews suffer. And games require a huge amount of testing.

    This all adds up the costs, which would be even larger when a new hardware gen comes out, but nobody wants to pay more for games. Many complain endlessly about today's prices.

    So we get what we're prepared to pay for and no more. That's business.

  40. ATI vs Nvidia by David_Hart · · Score: 1

    CUDA is nice because it is supported by a lot of video editing and encoding programs and speeds up video processing. However, you are not limited, with a desktop system, to either/or. You can install graphics cards from both vendors. In fact my desktop system has a high end Nvidia card for gaming and video processing, conneced to dual monitors, and a low end ATI video card for HDI output to my HD TV.

  41. Well stop and think about it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They weren't adding MHz and resolution for shits and giggles, they were doing it because it enabled better games. For example, the creators of Sonic might have had that idea back in the TRS-80 days, but been unable to implement it. Likewise, the creators of quake or Daytona USA may have thought about those ideas back during the Genesis time and not been able to implement it on the available hardware.

    Today, what ideas are there for game software that can't be implemented because of hardware? I mean *maybe* the frames per second will be lower than they want, or the detail will be less than they want, but basically there is nothing that can't be implemented. Now people have been adding all sorts of new controllers, which is frankly more interesting, as it allows new ideas.

    The problem in the game industry has been the opposite - lack of creativity. Every year, another stupid set of the same damn sports games from last year gets updated with new sprites and sells again for $60 a pop to gullible people. If you like sports, freaking go outside and play them yourself. Every year, 10 new first person shooters that are almost like last year's first person shooters get released. This isn't a new problem (witness the number of side-scrollers), but it has gotten worse.

    The hardware will get better when it needs to. Right now, there's not much need.

  42. Re:Because the manufacturers lose money on console by Repossessed · · Score: 1

    Estimates are that the Wii 2 should be able to beat the PS3 graphics and still stay in the black with a 200$ price tag. It won't be anything like the improvement of the theoretical PS4 over the PS3, but if they can bring in all the developers that don't want to make games for the wii because the wii has poor graphics it'll put a lot of pressure on MS and Sony to bring out a new console to steal those developers back.

    Also, the Kinnect is utter shit.

    --
    Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite (TM)
  43. Upgrade Cycle by souravzzz · · Score: 1

    The PC upgrade cycle is a myth. You can play most if not all games with moderate settings even on a 5 year old pc. My friend tried out Crysis 2 on a dual-core and 8600GT (really?) and it did not stutter. The point I am trying to make is if you don't want to run all the games on MAX resolution and settings, you don't need to upgrade your PC as they claim. With consoles, you are stuck with lower graphics capability anyway. What you are missing is the opportunity to upgrade it if/when you can manage some cash. Maybe it feels good to know that no one else has better graphics than you.

    1. Re:Upgrade Cycle by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      My friend tried out Crysis 2 on a dual-core and 8600GT (really?)

      8600GT had the price:performance ratio for months on end. I have one too. My desktop machine has a 240 GT because my priorities changed and it's in between the price:performance peak (for when I bought it) and the power consumption valley, for which I was shooting. Less than 3/4 of the price of a 250, about 3/4 of the performance, and less than half the power consumption.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Upgrade Cycle by grumbel · · Score: 1

      The PC upgrade cycle is a myth.

      It is not a myth, it was very damn real for many years. It is just that in the last five years most games have moved to consoles as their primary platform and thus you can run those games on an older PC as well, as they are just not that demanding to begin with. Real PC games with PC as primary platform are still quite a bit more demanding and you won't run something like ArmAII on a five year old computer in maximum details at any tolerable speed. With Crysis1 you couldn't even get a PC when it was released that could run the game on maximum details. Also the Crysis2 demo I tried ran rather crappy on my four year old PC (not a hardcore gamer PC, just midrange with a new HD5670).

  44. Status Quo by fragMasterFlash · · Score: 1

    Aside from the Wii, the current generation of consoles does a decent job of delivering 1080p HD content. It no longer takes a $1500 PC to game at HD resolution with playable frame rates. The question in my mind is when will display manufacturers start pushing 2K resolution as the next big thing, and how long will it take for prices to be on par with current 1080p displays. At that point there will be a compelling reason for the gaming masses to get excited and open their wallets once again.

  45. Gameplay Graphics by EoN604 · · Score: 1

    Gameplay/playability is always more important than graphics. It has ALWAYS been the playability of a game that's made the big hits. The graphics are just an extra bonus. In fact most of the games that have a short playtime are the ones with the exceptionally great graphics. It's playability > graphics. With FPS's, the older ones were just as fun if not more fun than the most cutting edge ones. It's nice to have photorealistic graphics, but I know for a fact that CoD is no more fun for me than Unreal Tournament, and I've put way more hours into UT. Think about all the big epic hits over time, Sierra Quest series, Monkey Island, Zelda, Mario Bros, Sonic, Street Fighter 2, WoW etc, in almost all cases there are alternatives with better graphics but the gameplay/playability just aren't as good which is why they fell behind.

  46. Re:Gameplay Graphics by grumbel · · Score: 1

    Gameplay/playability is always more important than graphics. It has ALWAYS been the playability of a game that's made the big hits.

    Its not an either or, both graphics and gameplay go hand in hand. Almost all big successes in gaming history have been enabled due to advances in graphics that could then be utilized for new gameplay. You couldn't have done Mario64 on a SNES or Zelda:OOT, Doom on 286 wouldn't have been much fun either, FinalFantasyVII without CD, that wouldn't have worked, and games like Monkey Island or Maniac Mansion where one of the graphically most impressive titles of their times (full bitmap background instead of tilemaps, large sprites, sprite scaling, etc.).

    And of course the fun part: CoD isn't graphical powerhouse, in fact most people by now call that engine kind of outdated, instead the engine is optimized for playability, instead of shiny graphics effects you get 60fps and super smooth controls. I still consider it a shitty game, but certainly not because they didn't spend a lot of time fine tuning the core gameplay.

  47. You mean like Casino Royale by tepples · · Score: 1

    Would you prefer to play as James Bond or as an anonymous CIA desk jockey?

    You mean Casino Royale (2006) era James Bond? Imagine a game where you start as a desk jockey and end up of the same nature as James Bond. The player creates an CIA or SIS desk jockey character who goes through various training exercises and intelligence gathering missions, with the end goal being promotion to a rank given the authority to use deadly force (the "license to kill" represented by 00 in the Bond universe).

    1. Re:You mean like Casino Royale by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1

      Interesting. I did enjoy "No one Lives Forever." The heroine is a secretary. But realism seemed beside the point.

  48. Re:Gameplay Graphics by blahplusplus · · Score: 1

    Problem is the era of gameplay is over, one can see this in MMO's where there is pracitcally zero participation (it's all automated) and you have yuck yucks signing up in the millions (For world of warcraft).

    I agree gameplay > graphics but the last generation graphics has started to overtake gameplay, you can especially see this in many JRPG's that have horrible battle systems. All the money is being sucked up by the graphics, I hated FF12 because they practically gutted the game of any 'gameplay' to speak of, when you tick on autobattle and hit "forward' to navigate, while your bot does the rest... at that point we've stopped gaming and have moved into the story/watcher era, where the vast majority prefer watching passive movie content to playing games.... FF12 is absolute proof that this is going on whether we like it or not.