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Ask Slashdot: What OS For a Donated Computer?
chefwear writes "I am thinking of donating retired computers to a local charity for kids. What OS do you think would be best for this? From reading tips regarding the donation of computers, it's widely recommended to keep with the currently installed OS (which is Windows XP in this case). Since XP will be unsupported in about two years, I'm not sure I would be setting the little ones up for success. Would anyone suggest donating a computer with a Linux distro like Ubuntu to a local charity for kids?"
In which context and for what should it be donated?
My primary concern is how easily the kids would be able to crash the system, and in my experience, it's significantly harder to crash Ubuntu than XP when certain controls are in place.
it depends on what the purpose of the PC is going to be, are the kids going to be playing games, is it for web browsing, is it for educational purposes, is it to teach programming or business skills? All of these possibilities may affect the choice of OS. Overall though, if the tips that you've read suggest staying with the installed OS, why not follow the tips? XP being unsupported shouldn't affect them in any real manner, and if it does become a problem then the OS can be changed at that time.
of course not xp. or anything with MS.
Ubuntu FOR SURE. I mean think about it. easily detectable hardware.. you can download software and start using them from the ubuntu software center.. it's beautifully structured. It's pretty. and It's linux at the end of the day!
So yes, please, ubuntu! spread the open source world. please. that questino shouldn't have even crossed your mind!! that's why i'm the only one posting a reply.
I'd suggest installing Xubuntu. The interface is going to be familiar to some extent to anyone who's used Mac OS, Linux or Windows. Unity or Gnome 3 won't.
It might also be worth putting a couple of shortcuts on the desktop to a web browser, mail client, word processor and any other commonly used applications.
Give 'em Debian and let the brats learn apt-get for when they could be thinking of Harry Potter or some crap like that.
Keep the old xp's lying around and install Ubuntu dualboot.
How are we supposed to make a judgment about what OS is the best when we don't even know the specs of the desktops in question?
Though what "easy" entails is maybe a bit fuzzy, and not something you'd let your local penguinhead decide. As a habitual FreeBSD user-and-admin, I'd suggest, say, some LTS ubuntu maybe, because it sounds like the sort of userbase they aim for matches your target audience reasonably well. Something along those lines anyway. PCBSD might be an option too. Perhaps organise introductory classes, especially for the adults running the show?
Any OS will do, as long as the manufacturer is not affiliated with the BSA
With lotts of experience in the charitable sector, I can say that these types of donations are a disservice.
Old monitors are fine, but old computers are huge time wasters for people, and if anyone who uses these machines is actually paid, it doesn't take very long to accumulate the cost of new Dell @ $349.00.
As for software, if the charity is registered in the US or Canada, use techsoup.org, Office 2011 Pro Plus + Win 7 Enterprise costs about $30.
If a box will run XP it will run Win 7.
If they have the proper license key CoA stickers - go with whatever it is licensed for - charities can usually get good deals on S/W so I wouldn't worry too much - although you can always upgrade them to Linux later if it is a major issue.
If there is no CoA (or one for something like Windows ME!) - Linux is the best way to go - if they choose to replace it themselves, that is their concern.
I would install Ubuntu or some other free operating system. Main reason being licensing, with Ubuntu they'll get a current operating system and future updates and I don't have to worry about whether the XP license was part of a family pack and I can't even give it away, or whether it's an OEM license that prevents them from modifying the hardware, etc.
Even the newer ubuntu version will be unsupported in a couple of years.
I'm going to ask Slashdot for an OS recommendation DURRRRR
XP is still very much relevant - much to Microsoft's chagrin - regardless of its expiration date. The machine comes with a (OEM) license, presumably, so why waste it?
At the same time, might as well expose them to a Linux distribution that at least has scores of layman support, such as Ubuntu.
So why not set up a dual-boot system?
Leaving a clean copy of XP would be my suggestion since you already have the licenses and I reckon the Hardware itself will not likely survive another 2 years (They are Kids after all). But then again that would be too easy so here is another suggestion: Install OpenBSD to provide a solid foundation On top of that install Ubuntu (for an easy to use Linux distro) in VirtualBox, On top of that copy of Ubuntu install Windows XP if the kids need it to run their games In that virtual instance of XP get Firefox to point to jslinux so the kids have something to tinker with if the hardware is not enough spend some money for some more RAM
Windows XP needs expert maintenance to keep it running properly. You need to install antivirus and keep it updated, you need to run Windows Update, you need to keep various software packages up to date (and they all have their own ways to update). Printers and such all support XP, but you have to figure out where to get the driver and which one to use; whereas with Ubuntu the driver support isn't 100%, but the stuff that does work will really Just Work with no fussing. (Where I work, there is a networked printer that Ubuntu talks to perfectly, and it took well over an hour to get it working under Windows 7. And I had to install some wacky HP software that I really hate, to get it to go.) And even if you do everything right, after a few years the system will get kind of slow and bogged down, at which time you should really do a bare-metal reinstall to speed things up again.
Ubuntu should run well on any computer from the "Designed for XP" era. It has one unified package manager. The Ubuntu Software Center is a place where kids can get stuff for free, and it's legal and it won't be malware.
When I give away computers, I put Ubuntu on them. (Sometimes I also put Windows on them, if the person getting them has a need for Windows. But kids have no actual need for Windows, and Ubuntu works great.)
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
I would dual boot it with Ubuntu and XP, even if XP support is going to be stopped by Microsoft that doesn't mean the reams of troubleshooting data online will be taken down. It will be much easier to source software, games, etc for windows.
Adding Ubuntu in there may give a few of them with the interest to investigate the OS further
Of course Slashdotters will tell you Ubuntu just like they want you to encode your music in ogg, but the answer is XP, clearly. It's still the standard, for better and (mostly) worse, so if the machine can run it, run it. If it's a donated machine, there are low/no expectations for future support other than scrub-and-reinstall, so XP makes the most sense. But also, what they said re: what's the machine's target use, maybe Ubuntu is a good route... but XP is unfortunately the best bet.
Depending on the age of the kids involved I recommend QIMO
http://www.qimo4kids.com/
Witty Comment Here
Lol lets give kids Ubuntu, mind as well give them the fucking large hadron collider, they'd be able to use that just as well as ubuntu, and the staff, or lord the fucking staff would flip a major bitch...... If the charity workers cant use ubuntu what are you going to expect children to do with it?
Do them a favor and put FreeBSD on it. Configure it beforehand so everything works; they won't even be able to figure out how to break it, and if they can even manage to do that, then they'll have learned enough to fix it.
Be ready to do some real support. You may not find it very different form Windows but they will. That is just life, they aren't computer people. Be ready to have plenty of training to do. If you aren't willing to do that, then consider just leaving XP on them. You aren't doing them favours if you give them systems they can't handle and say "Too bad, your problem now!"
Also make sure Linux supports everything they want to do. If it is just web surfing and e-mail, no problem. However if they want to run special educational software, it may be Windows only. If that's the case, XP may be what is needed. Remember that "You don't need that," or "Well there might be OSS that is kinda like it," is never an acceptable phrase. Unless you can find something that they are happy with as a replacement, it isn't a replacement.
Just make sure that if you give them a Linux system, it will be workable for them. While a supported OS is always the best way to go, an unsupported OS won't necessarily be horrible. If the firewall is enabled and people don't use it as an administrator, it could be a long time before there is a real security issue.
Also keep in mind how long the hardware will last or is going to be used. XP will have patches for another 2.5 years (April 8, 2014 is when it stops). Will the systems still likely be running much after that?
There isn't a right way to do this, depends on the situation. So decide if you are willing to support it (or if they have a support guy that handles Linux, which is unlikely), and if so then find out if you can meet their needs with Linux. If not, put XPSP3 on them, patch it, harden it to the extent possible, install security software like MSE, and call it good.
Kids want puzzles. Give them an OS as a puzzle.
I would go with Ubuntu, linuxmint or some such desktop distro today. Not so much because it's a better OS or will be supported longer than XP but because when you're donating computers you have to expect that they will end up in the hands of people who can't necessarily afford to buy software to do a lot of things and by default XP comes with 0 extras and won't necessarily know how/where to fine open source options for windows. In this light your typical linux distribution comes with software that will do a little bit of everything from office/word processing/whatever to editing graphics and even a few fun games for kids with plenty more for free in the repositories. I did this for several years in central Nebraska. In all I gathered up several hundred PC's from local businesses that were going to discard them and refurbished them and installed a user friendly linux distribution (at the time I was using Lindows/Linspire) and never had a complaint or even a call back with anything other than a thank you. Most distros like ubuntu, mint, fedora etc today are just as easy to use as windows out of the box even for a new user poking around trying to figure things out.
Considering there are some things that you just cannot do under wine, you should leave XP installed. After all, you don't want to prevent the kinds from completing there school work because of some windows-only technology (or similar).
That being said, exposing them to free software operating systems is a good idea, and may allow them to learn many useful things about computers, etc.
So, set up a dual boot environment. Probably have XP boot by default, but put a 5(ish) second countdown on grub, and make sure the option for the Linux distribution you choose has a very curiosity peaking label.
Quote in subject is what, in my experience, the ones looking after the charity will say. "Microsoft is the standard" and no talk of how wonderful Ubuntu is will persuade them. Therefore a machine without a Windows license is pretty much dead weight with the ones who are like that.
If they're not like that though, then Ubuntu seems like the obvious choice to me or possibly one of its Edu spinoffs (Edubuntu?)
Businesses are almost totally Windows based. It is only when you get into the server room that you'll find Linux. So if you're setting someone up to work with Windows in later life that would be the choice. But there may be a lot more tablet use in 10 years.
But I used an Amiga up until about 1998 and on that I learned how to program C and other things. It's not held back my knowledge of Windows.
For children nothing is better than edubuntu, has a lot of neat educational games installed.
If the computers are only to be used for web browsing then any OS will do of course, but I'm assuming that the people you donate the computers to will buy printer X or webcam Y tomorrow and expect it to work after inserting the cd that comes in the box. Linux is excellent until you pop in a windows driver cd...
So I recommend leaving XP on there, just make sure security settings are ok, MSE is installed, use chrome for browsing, make a recovery partition and a simple bare-metal restore procedure etc. etc.
Moe info is needed. I had to do something similar when my employer got rid of a lot of old machines. they went to different places, and for each, I evaluated certain criteria.
Who will be administering these machines? This might make the decision easy for you, it might not BE your decision if there's a competent admin in the organization there who will of course have their own ideas. They may use the product keys the machines came with, they may have their own distro they want to standardize on, or they may even qualify for one of the cheap or free site licenses that Microsoft offers to NPOs.
As others have asked, what will the machines be used for? If it's 100% for the web, any OS will do, and it's a question of what will be easiest to maintain. Install the OS, lock it down good, install Firefox or Chrome in terminal mode and you're golden.
If you have any expectation that the staff or kids will want to install their own applications, you're almost certainly better off with XP - end of life or not. WINE is probably not something you want to get into with folks who don't understand computers well enough to administer them on their own.
Remember, just because it's a charity for local kids doesn't necessarily mean anything. Kids might not ever get anywhere near these machines. They could go to an admin who does the finances. One of the PCs we donated went to a charity for Cerebral Palsy where it's being used for fund raising. It's running Razor's Edge on XP.
The best thing to do is ask how they expect to use the machines. Then figure out how to set them up based on that (If they don't have their own people).
Touch everywhere, even when inappropriate.
Install whatever OS is OEM'ed to the box - if its Windows XP then great, people are familiar with it and it costs nothing extra to put on. If no OEM sticker, put Kubuntu linux on it since you don't have to pay for it and will keep costs down. I'd recommend against Gnome because it has annoying default panels that seem to be nothing more than a waste of space.
Ignore Linux bias from slashdotters for a quick moment and think about what they are used for? If the kids are just browsing the web going to PBS kids or coolmath games then the OS should not matter. Ubuntu or whatever distro you want as long as the hardware works. If they want to run something like Meavis Beacon Teaches Typing, Oregon Trail, Math Blaster, MS Word/Works, and other kid software then you should choose Windows.
If you need or want the kid software for win32 then the donated computers must have the OEM license on them and you have to have the media restore cd's then you are good. You can order the restore CDs as well from the OEM. then I would keep Windows XP on them. If not and the computers have a volume licence from some organization then you legally can not donate them without wiping them.
If it is a non profit charity MS has an incentive program listed here with great discounts. I do not know how much ram this machines have but I think Windows 7 Starter Edition with the volume license might be very affordable as it works well with machines with just 1 gig of ram. I am thinking if you get donated old software then Windows XP might be a better.
Mathblaster and Lexia Lab really do work and children love them and I think would give them more value than just a machine to browse the web.
http://saveie6.com/
Ask yourself 3 questions:
1) Will the kids want to play computer games? Of course, they are kids, what else are computers for at that age? That means XP.
2) Who will help them with the computer? Answer: other kids, parents and teachers. I bet your bottom dollar kids will get much better teaching from others with XP compared to Ubuntu, purely because of the install base and general familiarity.
3) Is the 2 year limit on XP relevant? Of course not, in 2 years as an XP machine it'll be due for a re-install anyway (if not before).
It might be worth taking a look at the Helios Project, (Website: http://www.heliosinitiative.org/ , Blog of bloke running it: http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/ ), as this is exactly what they do, collect together donated PCs and stuff, and provide refurbished PCs with Linux on to people on a charitable basis (predominantly disadvantaged kids I believe). (And they do some training etc as well I think).
Anyway, a lot of the postings on their have been quite interesting over the years, and I think they currently use either Ubuntu or Linux Mint.
puppy linux.
They should just wipe the drive and install a fresh OS anyway, could you imagine if they didn't and the kids found the porn folder the previous owner forgot to delete? Or the number of viruses these systems would have? Heck, I could barely use a browser on my father-in-law's computer because there were so many toolbars installed.
As others noted, it depends on what those computers will be for. If it's just games and other software they can buy @ Walmart, leave XP on them. Do you have the original copy? If so, do a complete re-format and re-install, and donate that XP copy as well. Donating Linux would be a bad idea, b'cos at some stage, an admin or someone will have to know how to fix that if it goes wrong. Kids aren't going to know to edit /etc/resolve.conf, or do a 'system-config-network' when the ISP is changed, or open a separate terminal and do a 'service network restart' and for these OSs (Linux, BSD, Hurd...), one has to fix them via CLI despite those graphic interface tools being available.
After 2 years, if they are unusable, either they may get newer donated PCs that have Windows 8 on them, or they may decide to try out Ubuntu or some other Linux distro. But that will be their decision.
I doubt any charity would (if they had sense) use a computer with the software that was on it when it was donated. Who knows what is on there - viruses, trojans, porn collections, bank details etc. They'd wipe it and install from scratch. Given that, they would have their own ideas of what to install but as a courtesy you could supply the original install discs if you had them. You could also offer to help them choose an OS if you wanted to volunteer to set it up, in which case their requirements would dictate what OS to use.
Taking into account that it's for kids in a charity, I'd go with Ubuntu. I already set up Ubuntu machines for kids and excluding one or two bumps along the way (which Windows XP isn't imune to) it works just fine.
These are my reasons:
1) Windows XP at this point is too vulnerable to malware. I've seen networks in businesses based on XP that were basically breeding grounds for all sorts of viruses, even with paid AV software up to date, and I assume you'll have only free AV protection in them. Also note that you can't use the latest browser from MS so to be up to date on that you should use another one. If I had to bet, I'd say those computers in the hands of kids will be full of malware in a very short time.
2) Ubuntu is easy to use. I'd go as far as to say that it's more intuitive than Windows. Of course, this won't apply to people that lived their whole lives using Windows but since we're talking about kids here, I don't think that should be much of a problem. I'd stick with Ubuntu classic desktop instead of Unity though, since it's just easier to understand.
3) With a centralized repository of software, kids can install new games and other apps without looking in the wild west of the internet and dealing with installers and potentially harmful stuff.
4) In terms of content and applications, a new installation of Ubuntu is much superior than a new installation of Windows. Of course, this is not a problem if you intend to put some work setting up your Windows with more software before donating, like an office suite, etc.
5) No licensing issues whatsoever, no matter how many people use it, how they use it, how they access it, etc. This may not be a problem in your case.
Whilst I'm sure it's a cynical move to make the Free software option less attractive, it might be worth considering updating to Windows 7 via the Microsoft Donation Program if the charity in question is eligible. (See http://www.techsoup.org/stock/microsoft/guidelines.asp)
From what I can gather it costs $12 per seat, which sounds a reasonable price to pay to not be tethered to the sinking Windows XP.
I'd suggest Edubuntu
https://edubuntu.org/about
I never used it myself although there's a 'try it now' which lets you run it over the internet and get a look at it.
I comes stable so its less likely updates breaking something and then no one being around to fix it. The issue i see with Ubuntu is if no one knows how to maintain it it could get stuck with some buggy package or unity if someone mucks it up.
Just if you did use Debian be nice and get Ice Weasel tracking the current version of Firefox having anyone still using 3.5 is cruel.
I have volunteered in a program called "Linux Against Poverty" in the past which traces back to this man's organization: http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/. The premise is simple: older computers are refurbished and repaired, and then Linux was loaded on them and given to the area's financially less fortunate kids. Linux was chosen simply to the sheer price of buying Windows licenses.
The "bloke" goes into quite a bit of detail (despairingly at times) as to the problems he has faced and situations he has come across in running a charity involving computers.
As long as the PCs have 40GB or more of disk space, just install Ubuntu side by side with XP, with the latter as the first choice in GRUB.
This gives them a familiar environment (XP), but lets curious kids explore Linux if they're interested.
Dilbert RSS feed
Your argument against Windows XP is that it's end-of-life and not supported, and that you don't want kids to learn out dated OS? Good points; and as much as I like Linux. The average end-user is too stupid to use it; and 95-100% of these kids ~WILL be average end-users. At the very least Windows XP still resembles Windows 7, and whatever Windows operating system that they'll be using in their mind-numbing boring and mundane jobs as adults. Prepare kids for what is really going to be used in the real business world, not the IT world, not the developers world but the unidentifiable pointless jobs that the mass majority of them will be working for the rest of their lives. They might as well start getting mad at their computers crashing, getting viruses and working slow now so they'll be used it it as adults. :p
Next; if you go the Linux route, who's going to support their systems? Is the donated TCO really worth installing an updated Linux VS a outdated Windows?
Clean up the OS, install a freeware firewall, anti-virus, internet monitoring system. The system will at least be able to play the games and educational programs that they need to use.
Because you should only be donating high quality iPads to kids, anything else just isn't fair on them. You don't want to restrict their intellectual and socio-economic growth
And with the vast number of apps available for any possible purpose, whether for business, education or pleasure, there really is no better platform for choice.
So, all in all, it has to be Apple iOS for freedom, choice and thinking of the children who are our future.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Only one OS (Linux, Win...) experience/admin indicates a dangerous user. Crashes happen. Easy Recovery? (Linux-GNU...).
For learning, extensibility, forward-compatibility, flexibility, copyrights/law, cost, interoperability, infrastructure, hardware lifecycle, games ....
IMO: Linux-GNU is best for schools.
Donating retired computers to a local charity for kids all the above needs to be considered. Most Microsoft/closed-source products will (initially and over time) be to costly for the charity and limit kids curiosity, investigation, innovation, upgrades over many years.
Turn the kids loose and on, then let them achieve at their pace and interest for life.
Unaccountable leaders are masters, and unrepresented people are slaves. How do US and EU fare?
I wouldn't give anyone a system with an existing OS. You should scrub the drive and install fresh. Particularly with XP or other strains of Windows, there's no telling what might be crawling around in an old system. Even with Linux, are you certain you've found every trace of your old pr0n collection and deleted it?
Have gnu, will travel.
Just stick to Windows XP, and install Deep Freeze. (Software) damage caused from toying around or from virus infection will instantly be "healed" when the computer is powered off at the end of the day. This is a practical solution that would save you tons of headache.
with WinFS of course
All used computers destined for use by children in any official manner will be wiped and a new OS installed (likely windows) anyway, to protect them from any nasties the previous owner may have conciously or unconciously left behind. Unless you are the IT tech working with this children's organisation or charity the question is redundant.
well, Microsoft is out of the loop, as you may not recycle the software together wiht the computer...and may not be transferred or whatsoever....you need to buy new copies
Famous last words:"but...."
Since support will end in the foreseeable future and since linux just works sooooo well (and it does) - dual boot the machine, the next user can have the choice (at least until windows support ends). This is a total no brainer. Besides, it gives the next user at least ONE good OS (and it ain't windows).
Bitz-fer-brains
"I set my grandmother up with xubuntu 8.04 on the desktop years ago. Solid as a rock, been working ever since"
Just to be clear, we are talking of your grandma here, not the PC right?
I heard of linux working on old boxes but this is the first time I heard being installed on an old bag.
Except when some adult with minimal computing experience - which is most likely some flavor of windows, is the "administrator," then an Ubuntu box with a problem sits in a corner unused while an XP box gets a re-install or free anti-virus software or something.
The answer is quite simple: chefwear should simply ask them what they want. If that's not possible, or the people he asks simply don't know, then I think the implication is clear - they'd be more comfortable with something popular like XP. It doesn't matter if Linux is a better choice if XP is going to get more use. That's disappointing, but it's just the way it is.
Stupid sexy Flanders.
For elementary school age kids, whatever OS you install will be obsolete by the time they graduate middle school, let alone high school or college. Same for current middle school kids.
WinXP is an anomaly for it's lifespan - it retains almost 50% of the total desktop market after what, almost ten years of use?
For kids, especially young kids, it is about supporting not just web browsers, but 10+ year-old software written for WinXP and earlier OSes. Besides, you can only donate OSes you have a legal right to install - of course, that means all the FOSS OSes like *BSD, Linux, and some others, but unless you have an excess of licenses, Win7 isn't likely an option.
WinXP supports most new software, for example Office 2010, BTW.
Ken
Implying that kids are no different than beat-down, corporatized, cubicle dwellers that are told not to think for themselves. Kids are still unfettered by exposure to hide-bound companies run by dicks asking about the TPS reports, so they won't need as much hand-holding as you seem to imply. In fact; the less exposure to Windows they have, the more quickly they will excell (no pun intended) with Linux.
Why are you asking Slashdot? Are you donating them to Slashdot? Maybe you should take this up with whoever you're donating to.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I have five kids (4 daughters, 1 son) and about the same number of computers in the house. Here is what I've learned:
Windows computers, no matter what version become unusable after six months due to kids installing stuff that includes three metric tons of crapware. If you remove the ability to install, you remove the ability to learn to manage the computer, which kind of defeats the purpose of letting your kids have a computer to begin with. When things go wrong, Dad is out 4-8 hours, usually re-installing everything on the laptop.
Macs work well, but are too expensive to let a 13 year old throw in the backpack, get stolen at the school library, etc... a $400 PC is not nearly as likely to grow legs because it will sell for $200 on the street. A $1300 Mac will get $900, which buys a lot of mind altering chemicals. When things go wrong, Dad is out 10-30 minutes.
Linux works fine. The kids like Kubuntu because they can customize everything (KDE4 is good at that), can access everything (Konqueror and Dolphin are amazing) and the browsers (Chrome, FireFox, Reconq and Opera) are all fine. OpenOffice is well suited to K-12 use, and Inkscape and Gimp are fantasic. There is no IE to fsck everthing up to hell. System administration is surprisingly not that big of a deal. It's pretty cool when they tell you, "Dad, I wanted to learn 3d so I found this thing called blender and here's what I made." When things go wrong, Dad is out 10-15 minutes, tops, and can usually SSH in and fix the problem.
-- $G
Ebuntu.
None. Wipe the drives, make sure the hardware works, and let them choose, install, and maintain the OS and software.
I'm going to suggest something revolutionary. I know this is a Slashdot flame war about operating systems but here's my two suggestions:
1) Ask someone at the charity what they would like to have on the computer.
or
2) Donate whatever you would be happier giving to them.
In either case you should follow the advice above about formatting the drive. You never know if there are cached credit card numbers or something else that could get you into serious trouble, so you should always format. Depending on whether the charity is keeping the computer for their own use or donating it to the children, they may prefer it unformatted or not care what OS is installed. If the charity is going to use the computer internally they may have their own IT person (or people) who may install whatever OS they normally use, regardless of what you give them.
So I repeat: ask them what they want, if they don't care, don't know, or you can't get a hold of them, give them whatever you want to give them.
Fanatically anti-fanatical
Been there, tried it. Unless you want to give substantial support for all things Linux -- and yes, kids are going to mess with it! -- then don't bother with installing Linux. You're talking about a Kids' Home. Think about it. Understaffed, underresourced, over-stretched. They don't have time to bother with Linux, and just need something that works. And when it breaks, hopefully, someone knows enough to fit it.
With that in mind, they may call in a repair technician (local HS kid). Is he (or she) going to know much about Linux? Doubtful. Even if you wish they did, it's doubtful.
So, for donated machines, keep standard operating systems on there. Believe me -- been there, tried it!
Since XP will be unsupported in about two years, I'm not sure I would be setting the little ones up for success.
Where is this concern grounded? Is XP going to just go away in two years? Is there a Linux distribution that can better familiarize kids with how to use a PC than XP can? Will learning on XP somehow set them up for failure/trouble?
If anything, I'd be more concerned about the people (if anyone) who will be expected to support the donated PCs. A lot of these donations go to organizations rather than individuals. Considering that many of them operate on a shoestring budget, chances are their "IT support" has neither the time nor ability to learn a whole new OS and may even decide to junk the PC in favor of one that "just works".
If you want to help, then help. We have enough crusading philanthropists out there.
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
I gave both to my sister for her new laptops.
.....
The conclusion? XP needs constant attention, but none of them are critical and you can do it every 6 months and you will be OK.
Linux, just works, but she has no chance to add anything to it. Printer works, but the scanner doesn't, USB 3G no go,
There is no winner or loser, just differences.
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
Since XP will be unsupported in about two years, I'm not sure I would be setting the little ones up for success
That doesn't mean it will stop working, or erase it's disks burn out the processor and stop (though if it could, that might come in handy too). All it means is that XP will revert to the normal state for pretty much every Linux distribution out there.
I'd leave it with XP. That gives whoever gets the machines the options of wiping them and installing something they prefer, rather than having your choice imposed on them. That's assuming of course that these machines last another 2 years.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
What about Chrome OS? This will require little or no maintenance. Kids can surf, email, and use Google Docs. With XP, the children will constantly need support.
My father is 88. Last year I noticed his Ubuntu desktop had changed and I asked how. It had invited him to update to the next LTS release, he had followed the instructions. He is a retired lawyer, not a programmer.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
Every time I've had a load of PCs to dispose of or donate, my donations have been rejected by the local charities. While I understand some PCs may have been too old, others were only 5 years old and perfectly functional. But, in all cases the PCs were rejected by schools, churches, various organizations for the needed, everyone I could think to ask. They all wanted no older than two years, original software discs, no low power machines.
It is annoying that they are such snobs. It is also time and money to strip and wipe these systems for donation. After wasting my time for the third batch, I now pay a local PC recycling company to come get them and feed them into a shredder.
And, when the charities knock on my door, asking for money etc. I give them the proverbial boot.
As much as I wish I could recommend Linux, you are probably better off with XP, if you have licensed copies. I recommend that you install SiteSafe so that normal users can only change what you want them to change, and see what you want them to see. Look at the site the same way you would look at a cybercafe - every user is a potential source of virus. If you use SiteSafe to flush changes after every user finishes, you can feel fairly confident that the computers aren't going to get so virused that you have to flatten them and start again.
If you are trying to drop these off and forget them, just train one of the administrators to login as admin from time to time so that they can do updates or whatever software changes might be needed.
Yes, it is fine to install Linux on it. Yes, you should do it. No, there is nothing wrong with it. Linux underpinnings are technologically sound, windows underpinnings are commercial. If you want to give it to children, linux is the way to go. If you want to give it to future computer users, linux is the way to go. The only exceptions are the future MBA students, they will require an intro to commercial thinking and there it does not matter what they get, as long as it is commercial.
Through the church I attend, I take old donated laptops and clean/repair/reinstall them for re-use by people that cant afford their own laptop. Practically all laptops I get already have an OEM version of Windows on them which I always replace with Ubuntu. I also provide a 5 page letter with each laptop introducing Linux and explaining how to do some common tasks.
Ubuntu has been very well received. Nobody has ever come back asking for Windows.
Apart from my personal beliefs about Linux being both better and more secure than Windows, and the benefits of supporting the opensource community, Microsoft themselves are preventing me giving out laptops with Windows by making their OEM Windows licence non-transferable. Each new owner of the same laptop is apparently supposed to buy a new Windows licence.
Neither my little mission nor the laptop recipients can afford to do that (I'm not eve sure you can buy XP licences anymore anyway), so Windows is not even an option unless I want to give out illegal installations (which I don't).
ChromeOS, put everything in the 'cloud'. They can't break ChromeOS and it gives them access to the net and all the web apps and games they want.
3) Is the 2 year limit on XP relevant? Of course not, in 2 years as an XP machine it'll be due for a re-install anyway (if not before).
So basically because an XP installation degrades over time and must be reinstalled rather frequently, you conclude XP is the recommended option?
Why not ask the people you are considering donating the pc to? Ask them what they currently use, what they might use it for, and what the current skill set will be for the people working with it (both the teachers/helpers and the children). It is possible that they would love to have an edubuntu box, because that gives them access to software they didn't have on the existing windows box. Or it is possible that they will turn their nose up at it, and relegate it to the "if nothing else is available, there's always the weird Linux computer" status.
You'll never know until you talk to the people who will be using it.
Linux Mint
As others have posted it depends what they are likely to use it for... however;
It would be nice to be able to throw various OOS onto computers and imagine that anyone could pick it up and use it for whatever they want without all the problems of windows... unfortunately there just isn't one quite there yet that brings a unified desktop together allowing the cli to be only an option. OS X whether you like it or not is very close to posix systems and as you probably know has a published open source base, derivitive of parts of FreeBSD, NeXT, Mach and so on.
it has the advantages of being relatively stable and malware / virus free, but with a desktop experience that is always going to be able to carry the less technical user. And as it takes a more significant market share much more software is being released for OS X in parrallel with windows, being viewed more as a nessecity by publishers rather than an extra.
legality does come into question when doing the "hackintosh" but honestly Apple aren't likely to complain about you potentially generating new future users of Apple hardware.
I've given some old (pentium old) notebooks away before with windows XP, not because i liked or used the system but just assumed users would feel anything else was unusable to them. Only to have them returned within a month barely operable crawling along littered with malware (yes it had AV). So i put OS X on it instead, sure it didn't run lightning fast on such old hardware, but they never had any problems again, they can still pick new software to download and it doesn't massively degrade in performance... haven't had it come back since.
Win XP, might be "more user friendly" for people only used to the windows GUI, but in my experience in the hands of those same users Win XP is too fragile and breaks easily. I can leave OS X in the hands of some of the most computer ignorant and in most cases asume they wont end up completely trashing it.
...pretty much anything you throw at it. Easy to use and support. Has some great simple games out of the box and to install more games via the software center is only a few clicks away. It's easy enough to lock down and extremely hard to break. I've actually donated 8 old p4's and a printer to a local school here in Thailand about 6 months ago and installed Debian Squeeze with Libreoffice, Chrome and some printer support and told them I'd be happy to support these PC's for a decent amount of time. I spent 1 hour showing them where everything is, how to print, open a browser window and the only time I've been called is to replace a busted power supply (smart arsed Thai kid's changing the voltage from 220-40 to 110-20!) and apart form that, they've had no problems at all. Sidenote: These kids are around 11 or 12 and have barely touched a computer in their life. Extra points - Debian has fantastic multi language support as does Libre Office. Honestly, heaps of dists will run fine using Gnome on 1gb ram or XFCE/LXDE on 512mb with a CPU made in the last 7 or 8 years. Good on you for donating! Good luck!
Ask the charity what they want if anything on the machines according to their policies on receiving donated PCs. A charity which intends to setup and maintain donated PCs for kids must have someone knowledgeable in charge of this. If they do not have anyone in charge of setup and maintenance, do not donate the PCs, sell them and give them the money.
For all sorts of reasons, not the least of which being license and security reasons, they are going to wipe the computer and put their own software on there. There's too much liability in using software transferred with the computer (are the licenses valid, are they transferrable) -- and who knows what malware or spyware may be on there (even if you tell them you wiped it, how can they trust that you didn't reinfect it by accident or intentionally put spyware on it).
Really, your only concern should be to securely wipe the hard disk to prevent recovery of your won data. At that point, they may want to an OS on there to at least demonstrate that the machine boots, and then they will (if they have any clue), wipe it again.
Windows ME
Hire me...
Any 'buntu with a GUI that isn't a total clusterfuck will do really. Lubuntu is the lightest 'buntu variant with an idiot-usable GUI.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
How often do folks really reach out to Microsoft for support anyway? Typically support calls go either to an on staff IT person or a local consultant, so the fact that the OS is no longer supported doesn't really make much of a difference.
I would stick with whatever the latest version of Windows the systems can run. If they can run Win7 then I would definitely recommend going that route, but if they can only run XP, that should be fine. Remember that most folks will have no clue what Linux is so when it won't run their Windows software they'll assume there is something wrong with the computer.
Same thing for Office - yes OpenOffice or similar may get the job done, but the folks using it probably won't understand what it is, and if the computer will be used by folks trying to learn about computers in order to get a job, or by kids trying to do school work, you'll really be doing them a disservice if they don't have access to MS Office, since that's what they'll probably use at work and/or school. Does that suck? Potentially, yes, but unfortunately that's just how it is.
If you end up putting Windows on the computers, I would consider installing something like SteadyState, or give them a DVD and instructions that they can use to easily reimage the computer. If it's a PC that many people will be using, it will probably be spyware'd in no time, so you want them to have a method for getting it back to a working state.
Easier to use than Windows. Free as in beer, free as in speech. I'm moving everyone I can over to it as quickly as I can. It's the end of paid tech support though, nobody will need you!
I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
Most charities will wipe the systems out anyway and have a computer person available that works with them, particularly if they accept donations of computers. I have worked with multiple charities and in every case it was SOP to wipe and reinstall the computer when it came in. Having the original OS is nice as it implies a license is available and if the Certificate of Authenticity is still on the box or included with the machine, then that license can be used if they want. (Otherwise, charities can get ridiculously cheap licenses of MS software from Open Charity Licensing (a copy of windows is like $30 and office is like $12.) )
AJ Henderson
Would anyone suggest donating a computer with a Linux distro like Ubuntu to a local charity for kids?
No. Two years is a long time and they can make plenty of use of those computers during it. When XP is no longer supported it can still be used. Forcing these children to use Linux probably isn't going to make them like you, not to mention the fact that it's highly doubtful that the version of Ubuntu you install now will still be supported (i.e. updated) in two years' time.
This is a really stupid question, IMO.
Leave XP on there. If they want to install ubuntu, it's free, and they can do so.
If you put only ubuntu on there, they will have no way to switch back to XP without paying (unless I suppose you include a restore CD and key)
Slap Slack on it, donate some books, and let the kids figure it out. That's real educational software.
Free Geek can help you.
http://www.freegeek.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Geek#Locations
No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
There is a lot of hooey on this discussion, even for Slashdot.
Many cities now have the equivalent of Free Geek in Portland Oregon, a computer refurbishing and redistribution center. These places typically use volunteers to tear down incoming systems, test components, reassemble into outgoing systems that they can support for a couple of years, and then provide user training, user and software support, and hardware support to the end recipients of your charity.
You leave with the paperwork for the tax write off, and the comfort of knowing than none of your old data will survive the low level read/write tests that the storage devices are put through. You are not burdened with continuing support issues, user training issues, etc.
The recipients benefit from having tested machines of course, but more importantly from having a support system available on next-business-day basis that is completely familiar with the hardware and OS, even after a few years have gone by. The support typically involves training sessions and other aspects of user support (as well as hardware and software support).
These volunteer refurbishing centers typically use a Linux distro, and I believe that Ubuntu is currently the most used one. This is because of licensing of course, but it offers the end users several major benefits, such as access to the wealth of FOSS software available, easy security and maintenance patch handling, and easy upgrade paths.
Will
is obvious
Install some build of Linux on half of the machines, leave the others with XP on them. Donate them and then check back after X months and see which system the kid like best. Which system has the most issues. Might find some interesting results.
training and support for the little things like internet connections or even installing software. The Microsoft Windows ecosystem is somewhat self supporting with so many _"experts"_ all over the place willing to show the completely clueless what things to click on.
So, if the charity has a small base of volunteers and they could be trained on the basics and some were willing to learn more, something like Ubuntu would be perfect. The charity could use LTSP to set up a multi-seat training room or labs and if they were REALLY into it, all the installed systems could have their software update system set to the charities server for updates but not really needed unless there were lots of customization.
Without the basic training, the charity would get calls like "where is the D drive when I put my CD in?". But with Edubuntu and the KDE education packages along with others I think a Kubuntu installation would be a very good solution. And unlike a Windows system, they would not be taught to pirate proprietary software because they can't afford it, they would be taught to look for and try out different free solutions and can do so from the 10s of thousands of free software packages out there.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
If you give out Linux, most people will think it is an inferior product because they don't know how to use it and they won't be able to install their preferred software. Chances are that they will use the computer less and end up just wanting to get something with Windows just like their friends and school have.
The only justification for using a Linux distribution if the kids are interested in learning IT or that you are willing to provide support to teach them how to use the new OS.
The BeOS!
It was beautiful, man!
(Shakes fist)
And it will be a gift that keeps on giving.
I am also in the Linux (Ubuntu) camp as a choice. However, I would recommend the "Lubuntu" variant, which is a newer, remixed, flavor of Ubuntu designed to be lightweight, in order to accommodate "humbler" hardware. I have tried it, and it performs admirably on older (within reason) machines.
How about Windows 98 ? - why ? - because it made me want to use Linux .. - so i did. Redhat 5.1 :)
so maybe such reverse psychology could be employed here ?
if you think windows is going to radically change in 2 years, well it really hasnt since 1995 in its basic function and use, so it will be safe especially with a decade of backsoftware
really you dont need the latest and greatest for many subjects, stickybear reading and math blaster still function just fine
He's been supplying donated PCs running Linux for underprivileged kids down in Austin, Texas for several years. He has done follow up visits on a regular basis. He rarely finds any issues that the kids haven't figured out how to solve themselves. The ones he does find tend to be hardware related. Check out his blog for details.
Before investing much time, you should ask the charity whether or not they can accept computers & if they can, what specifications they have to be. You'd be surprised - a lot of non-profits have guidelines for technology donations in place.
Install it and forget it! It goes online with little effort and usually sound and networking work OTB! Great for older hardware!
It the computers are for kids then they need Internet (MSN + Yahoo messenger w/ video&audio, Facebook, YouTube w/ Flash), Microsoft Office for homework, and PC games, XP is your (their) best option, until it dies. Then they will get another Windows computer. Unfortunatelly, none of these work 100% on Linux. If the computers were for the offices of some charity then Linux would be OK.
Am I the only one who is driven mad by the use of this phrase? // Also, stop naming your kids Aidan. I swear, 20 years from now: look to your left. look to your right. one of you 3 is named Aidan :P
I set up an old laptop for my younger sister with Edubuntu 10.04. It's an LTS, and it's before the whole Unity mess came along and made everything unusable. If you do use a later version, (Next LTS is 12.04) make sure you set the default to "classic" mode.
OR are they just a way to get another Windows vs. Linux vs. Whatever conversation going? In reality, what does it matter? The schools will distribute the PCs depending on what some admin thinks is best, and they will end up on the coaches desk or in the computer lab, who knows? These questions belong on Yahoo Answers, and not /.
I think therefore I can't be ~TTNH
If you subscribe to (now government-backed, thanks Blizzard) view that software EULAs are enforceable and software copies that come with EULAs don't have their titles transferred, then your "gift" of a computer will also come with contractual obligations upon the user that they never opted into and don't have the power to opt out of (except by replacing the OS). Furthermore, they probably won't even know what those obligations are, since you will be clicking through the 52-page "I agree" screen instead of the children reading it carefully and clicking "I agree" to indicate the child's fully informed consent to the binding contract.
(If this sounds totally fucked up, don't blame me.)
Doing this to anyone would hardly be "charitable," and doing it to children who don't even have a chance of understanding all the risks, would be even less so. Thus, you might want to avoid that if you're thinking in terms of charities.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
The fact that you are first and foremost concerned with what particular OS to install on these machines, and treat this as if it's some kind of deep philosophical question, is a sign that you are more interested in foisting ideology upon these children than actually helping them. Put something on there that has a good variety of useful software available and that they'll be able to figure out how to use. Any sort of consideration beyond that is inappropriate philosophical masturbation. You're here to help, not impose socio-political viewpoints on people.
I recently did the same thing. I had 12 old computers laying around the house. I looked at my options with the following concerns.
Would it be usable out of the gate to an end user? (Internet, listening to Music, Watching Videos, Word Processing, etc)
Would I be violating any licensing laws?
Can I make sure old stuff is gone?
Will it run on my old hardware?
I ended up choosing Puppy Linux http://puppylinux.org/.
Normally, I don't recommend any flavor of Linux to novice computer users but Puppy really fit the bill
We all know the long-term cost of a laptop is driven by the software and its upkeep. On one platform, you've got tens of thousands of apps, all free, and -- no small thing -- all centrally distributed, installed and automatically patched. On the other you've got a mere handful of useful free apps out of the box. Everything else you have to go hunting for on websites you pray to God aren't infested, install yourself, and patch yourself.
Really, there's no comparison when looked at from a my-time-is-valuable-and-no-I-can't-help-you-speed-up-your-windows-box point of view.
"We receive as friendly that which agrees with, we resist with dislike that which opposes us" - Faraday
If you are donating to the charity, ask them what they need. Donating equipment with something they don't need or can support would be kind of useless. If this is a normal computer donation program, they should have guidelines of what they need and can accept.
Anything else would be cruel.
Thats what it was made for!
The fine folks at Free Geek give away a lot of computers. It's a work-to-own program where volunteers recycle hardware, learn how to build systems, and after a modest investment of hours walk out the door with a free machine.
Free Geek wipes all drives and install a Linux OS (Ubuntu, I believe). The local Linux user group, however, lacks enthusiasm for this user base, making comments which were characterized as "less than racially inclusive" when presented with the opportunity to hang out with these low income / high enthusiasm users.
So, there's an option for you.
http://freegeekchicago.org/
It depends on what they want to do with it, and whether they have any sort of IT support.
If they have somebody doing tech support already, just wipe the drive and give them the computer (with restore discs just in case they want to use the bundled OS.)
If they don't have support but have any sort of established standard OS, then install the same OS as they're already using.
If they have no support and no standards, it's pretty much just up to you. A Linux distro if they just want to surf the web and use a word processor. Windows if they want to be able to install software purchased in a big box store.
I gave 3 old computers (one Pentium 3 and two Pentium 4) to a charity that will distribute them to recent immigrants. They will be used for email and a bit of word processing. I installed Puppy Linux on them, and everyone was happy.
Look, I work for a certain large software company, and the volunteer group I work with still chose to install Ubuntu on computers we give to people as part of a county-sponsored social program. Even if cost were no problem (which it very much is), Win7 is a non-starter because of mem/cpu requirements vs donated hardware. After ~three years of experience, we've probably given out 200-250 Ubuntu systems, and the support requirements for Ubuntu are *excellent* compared to XP or any other Windows variant.
Initially we were afraid that the support would kill us, but these systems seem to actually be fairly long-lived without massive support calls. To be honest, the worst cases tend to be when a recipient comes back and says "My boyfriend/abuser/pimp/dealer couldn't figure out Linux so he 'upgraded' it to [XP/Vista] and now it won't work." After being burned a few times, we became pretty strict about no supported OS = no support; we offer to backup their docs/pics to a cd, then re-image the drive back to Ubuntu.
You'll need to have reasonable standards for the hardware you accept for donation (ex: min P4/512/40gb/dvd-cdr), solicit 15-17in LCDs or be choosy re CRTs (here, dead crts cost $ to dispose of), choose an Ubuntu LTS release as a base (10.04LTS is working great for us), make sure you have a maintainable customization script/jumpstart/imaging solution (script *everything* -- there are tons of scripts out there you can adapt to your needs), write a quickstart sheet for all manual/user-specific configs (show users how to create non-priv accounts for kids and guests), and configure auto-updates to match the connectivity of the users (don't turn on auto-download for dialup users...).
As long as you design your customizations to rely on existing sources (unless you run your own repository), your users should be more or less self-supporting. Now this doesn't mean we're totally carefree. The new Unity interface in Ubuntu 11.x is really too confusing for our users, which means we may have major customizations to do next year when 12.04LTS is released. (Or we may switch to Linux Mint or another Debian/Ubuntu variant). But for now, we're quite happy with the results.
I think not...(*poof*)
If you're not going to be admin/support for the thing, stick with Windows. Whoever does have to support it would otherwise have to find a way to get a familiar OS on it, and if they don't want to download Windows they'd have to buy it. Save them the trouble and possible cost by giving them yours.
Arguments that "clueless lusers can't use Linux" are bogus, I know from experience - there is NO tech support burden when you give a fully configured Linux box to a computer illiterate person - just make sure all the apps they need are already installed and show them how the menu works, and configure auto update for security patches only.
Needless to say, Ubuntu 10.04 desktop - never, never, ever nasty narwahl.
Done.
Ubuntu has a distro called "Edubuntu" which is focused at kids, and includes rudimentary programming tools and whatnot. It's what I usually install (or include a LiveCD) on machines for donation.
Nuff Said.
no anti-virus needed. Install WINE
Wouldn't Wine let a Windows virus infect a user account on GNU/Linux just as it does on Windows?
but you have to have someone at the charity who can answer questions about getting the internet connected(via modem, wireless, or wired ) and a few other basic questions. I would install an "admin" account but keep the passwd at the charity and maybe even partition it and put a block copy of the original installation on that partition just in case it's needed. You might need to help with a printer, iPod, or camera too. These kinds of things they could ask a neighbor, family or friend about if it were Windows but until GNU/Linux usage spreads more, those handing out the computer need to be the go-to people for support.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
You can also get the free Microsoft command line C++ compiler that comes with the Windows SDK.
I just looked at the Windows SDK EULA for the first time today. Apparently section 2.a.iii prohibits promoting your application as compatible with Wine: "You may not [...] distribute Distributable Code to run on a platform other than the Windows platform". The "Distributable Code" appears to include the import libraries corresponding to the C and C++ runtime DLLs, which get linked into every application.
on linux in general and ubuntu in particular : practically anything that can actually fubar your machine requires a root or sudo password.
This has been true of Windows as well since Windows Vista. Just about any time you'd get a sudo prompt in Ubuntu, you'd get a UAC prompt in Windows.
You are encouraged to install cryptographically signed software from a known source
Same with Windows. The UAC prompts for homemade or otherwise unsigned software are scarier than those for software signed by a company, and 64-bit versions of Windows Vista and Windows 7 won't run unsigned device drivers at all.
you cannot typically install software on your user account
A lot of people who have posted in other discussions about GNU/Linux software packaging would call this a defect, not a feature. For instance, without installation of software to a user account, how else is someone other than the head-of-household supposed to run a game on a family PC?
Yes, you CAN override all safeties by dropping to command line and sudo su
The only time I've had to do that on any of the Ubuntu workstations and servers that I've used has been to cd into a folder that only root can read, not unlike gksudo nautilus.
Also, the idea of buying software at walmart is antiquated, why would anyone want to do that when they have a repository system built in?
Because not all software in existence is in the default repository, especially non-free software with no freely licensed close substitute.
The receiving organization will (or should) scrub the software from any donated machines, to prevent the spread of viruses and other malware. You should scrub the drive to prevent leaking any sensitive data. For software where the license was tied to the physical machine, there is an "authentic" sticker on the bottom of the machine, but the meaning of that sticker is not always clear. The physical copy of the software and the license to run it are two different things (unfortunately, but read the fine print in the license), so donating the install media doesn't necessarily solve this issue.
Ask them. If the people in charge of the charity have been doing this for some time, they probably have a much better understanding of the needs of those children than you. Imagine they need Windows to do homework, for whatever reasons. Or the reverse, they may be using Ubuntu at school. Maybe in the charity they routinely format an install a new OS on arrive. Who knows? Not you. Not me.
I run a computer lab that serves the public, but mostly kids. Windows is the preferred OS. On some pre-XP systems, I installed Ubuntu, which is fine for simple web surfing and some document writing. But even with a big giant icon that says "INTERNET", people would still ask how to start surfing because they were accustomed to looking for the big blue "E". Despite having low computer skills, most people (and kids) will still have a Windows machine at home and have some vague knowledge of what to look for based on that.
In addition, MS software is still desirable on a Windows machine. Right now, on our XP machines, we have Open Office (among other free software). That works well for people wanting to create documents right there. It might take a little bit getting used to, but that's just learning experience. But we also have people who come in and want to work on or print a document that they wrote at home, and if it happens to be saved in one of the latest MS Office formats, they may be out of luck.
So Microsoft products are preferred whenever available. The linux machines get used when the Windows machines are unavailable.
I did donate a computer, on which I loaded Ubuntu, to a couple of quite bright sudanese refugee kids, 8 and 10 years old. After showing them the menu, I didn't need to offer them any support.
They even found a learn to type program for their mother.
I tutor them weekly, and I can attest that they manage fine with no input from me, even though they could question me if they wanted.
Perhaps a follow up visit or two to the recipient might be part of the donation though?
Don't do anything, just donate. And now for the long answer: If you will build and maintain a lab, use GNU/Linux (it really is best for education on many levels, except for cases where the necessary software is unavailable, which is becoming less common). I prefer Fedora on newer machines and Scientific Linux on older ones, but if you're more experienced with Ubuntu it's a great choice too (I maintain an office and two small educational labs in the Philippines that only use Linux, there are drawbacks but the benefits negate them for us). If you will donate machines to someone else, unless you are also donating a 'blank check' amount of support, leave Windows on it. If they don't have the ability to manage Linux machines, you won't have caused them any difficulty, and if they do know how to manage Linux, they certainly know how to install it (lately that's the easiest part).
You ask in a Linux site, all people will tell you install some Linux distro. But remember that the charity pèople will have OLD hardware too, and linux support is terrible for that. When I wanted to use Linux I found that most of my hardware (printer and lots usb hardware) didn't work on Linux for lack of drivers. And then I only had mockey from nerds on Linux fourms: "Go get a REAL printer, go get a REAL scanner, go get a REAL internet provider (I use USB stick)" they say. I found that change my printer and devices for the ones that is supported by Liunx could cost me more than a new computer. Also if those poor people need to deal with the polite people that support Linux on forums, then they will have lots of headaches, leave it with Windows XP. Support ends in 2014.
If there is enough hard drive space, definitely keep the stock OS and reduce it's drive space with a program such as partition magic, then install Ubuntu on the space you emptied. Be sure before you resize to defrag until it defrags no more, so the space you clear for Ubuntu surely is empty and doesn't have fragments of important files from the stock OS on it. NOt sure if this is really necessary (defragging like this) but seems logical to me and that's what I did when I got a used laptop with XP on it. Works great, and if Unity won't fit on the disk, then the install defaults to Gnome 2.
My folks existing computer is no longer up to the task. When a friend helped set up a new computer for someone they donated their old XP computer. I've put a 320G HDD I had sitting around in it.
That computer is triple booting. IT defaultly boots to Windows XP as that is what my folks are used to. There is a separate data partition for photos etc. It has got the choice to boot into Lubuntu as a light weight linux install. There is also a third choice; that is to boot to a Debian stable which just goes to a menu to run scripts. The main script is to restore either the MBR or restore the Windows XP partition. I've taken an image using ntfsclone. Hopefully this gives my folks a fighting chance of staying on the net and being able to do their emails.
However with Ubuntu it's a crapshoot that anything you plug in will work, and there's really no guarantee that there's a driver for it, but in the off chance there is a driver it's going to be a good one."
I would've agreed with you around the era of Ubuntu 5, when I first tried it. However, for all the hardware I have, Linux these days does a better job of supporting it. On my laptop, Ubuntu 10 identified every device out-of-the-box and works perfectly. On Windows (admittedly, Windows 7 rather than XP) I still have devices in the Device Manager that seemingly no amount of investigation can get drivers for.
I think this says a lot about the world of device drivers: nobody can do it right. Some people will have good experiences with Windows; some will have good experiences with Linux. Bickering with anecdotal and subjective evidence does nothing to solve the problem.
If the machines have the horsepower for this run XP under virtual box and use an immutable boot image. The VM mounts user directories either off the local machine, or in a lab, off a network server.
This makes maintenance far easier. Kids will do all sorts of things unless the machines are locked down, and this is one of the easier ways to do that.
Alternately, use XP, but lock them down with DeepFreeze
Third Career: Tree Farmer Second Career: Computer Geek First Career: Teacher, Outdoor Instructor, Photographer.
For legal, technical support, and a host of other reasons, if the charity knows what it's doing, it'll be wiping all computers that get donated and installing something fresh, along with a limited suite of applications/games for the kids. For all they know, you could be a member of a pedophile ring and carelessly leave a folder full of child porn hidden somewhere on the hard drive. Or you could be a cracker who left a bunch of malware ready to crawl into their network the instant they hook the computer up to it.
This is the real signature
(Beats those shadows on the cave wall, don't it?)
Simple decision: wipe the drive. Donate. The donee will do as they wish.
Ditto: While a Linux box gets a re-install, free anti-virus, office, DB, browser, graphics (PNG, SVG...) editors, games... software or anything they want.
Unaccountable leaders are masters, and unrepresented people are slaves. How do US and EU fare?