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EVE Online Ponzi Scheme Nets $50k Worth of In-Game Currency
Calidreth writes "EVE Online is famous for its stories of theft, underhanded dealings, criminal empires and general unscrupulous play. For EVE players, this is generally an accepted part of the game and part of the risk players run. The type of scheme might be old, but the profits were big in the latest EVE Online scam, which has broken records and is now being called the biggest scam in the game's history."
regardless of how much real-world money the fraud was supposedly worth, it was all fictional money people basically invested for fun. Anyone treating a game as a serious investment has problems that the FEC can't fix.
I see this as a positive thing for EVE, because it underlies how the game is a kind of organized crime simulator all-the-more.
You'd think a bunch of accountants wouldn't fall for a Ponzi scheme.
"None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
BITCOIN!1one!11
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
I'm not a luddite by any means but I still don't understand people's will spend money on virtual property. I understand buying a game outright to play it. I understand renting one. I don't understand the willingness to pay real money for fictional in game articles. I think it's a form of insanity. In fact after contributing in game content for free in my younger days and watching games fade out of existence - even games with a rock solid user base like Microsoft Flight Simulator - I'm less willing to spend my limited time creating free content. Gaming is suppose to be fun. It shouldn't require substantial spends in time and effort. Same goes for simulation, unless you're training for a real world job.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
How is spending substantial sums of money on in-game items of no practical real-world value any different from spending substantial sums of money on real-world items of no practical real-world value?
Some people get as much enjoyment out of EVE as you might out of a month in the Bahamas. What makes them insane and you perfectly normal?
It makes as much sense as someone paying thousands of dollars for a single club instead of buying a $100 set of clubs off ebay. They're playing the same game as everyone else either way, but some people are very competitive and willing to pay for an advantage.
Just FYI, the dollar figure quoted is how much it'd cost to buy that much ISK if you were converting Eve Game Time Cards at today's prices.
It's entirely possible, with a little skill and effort, to play Eve essentially for free. Spending money upfront to turn a GTC into ISK is actually pretty sensible. I did it to generate some operating capital and now I'm the situation of having a trade / industry alt that I log into every few days to update orders, move stock around and whatnot (pretty much the trading part of Elite) and a main PvP / PvE.
Eve is actually really casual friendly if you're a little smart about it!
Nick
Social signaling.
Why do you buy $30 t-shirts with hilarious geeky in-jokes, when the 3-for-$5 pack of t-shirts are, functionally, identical?
Social signaling.
Those who fail to understand communication protocols, are doomed to repeat them over port 80.
The fact that EVE players enjoy making themselves vulnerable to theft in the same way others would enjoy getting some sun and a nap?
Banks only work when there are laws and enforcement of said laws. What rube would give his money to someone who isn't obligated to hand it back -- and there is no recourse? In the real world you could confiscate the bank's holdings, but in the logic of a computer game, you cannot obtain assets of another player unless they give it to you.
The story is awesome but I hate gamergaia.com, they just re-post crap from forms and put it on their site.
You get isk by selling these tokens. You buy a token using your credit card and the token represents one month of playtime. Then you can sell this token to another player for ISK. (At-least that's how it was a few years ago. Id figure they have a more direct method by now.)
In the article "The amount of ISK stolen was enough to buy 2,953 30-day time codes which is worth a whopping $51,577.50" This is 246 YEARS of play time here. There is no way of ever recouping this money either so it even makes that 50k worthless as any kind of measure.
1.8 trillion isk? Now thats much more scary number. Even if it did get to 1.0 trillion, that could supply pirates for a long time to come:P
Is Microsoft Office "real" or not? People pay a fee to use code. Whether that code produces a word processing application or the sword of 1,000 truths doesn't really make much difference at the end of the day, does it? You can argue that the word processor is more "useful" than the sword, but then you're basically arguing against anyone spending their money on things that are fun instead of useful.
Every money making venture in Eve is scam. If it doesn't start out as one it turns into one when the pile of cash crosses a certain threshold.
There is no safe investment in Eve. We are all crooks.
I think the only reason these things continue to work is player churn.
I find being offended by me offensive.
I don't get it either. I was unconvinced by MMORPGs[1] like World of Warcraft where you have to pay to keep playing. Paying to get even more virtual goods which you don't even get to keep if you leave the game is just a bit dumb IMHO.
[1] I object to computer games being called Role Playing Games: I've never seen an MMORPG, or indeed any computer based 'RPG' work as well as a real table top RPG. Computers lack the imagination to create plot twists that a human games master can create. If your players want to wander off the dedicated path the computer has been set, I've not yet seen computer compensate for it. Not yet anyway.
If you want to hear it from the people who created the Ponzi Scam
http://www.evenews24.com/2011/08/14/the-1-trillion-isk-ponzi-phaser-inc-speaks/
They did a write up for this eve centric news site.
My thousand dollar club was worth every penny. With it I shattered the skulls of my foes and defended the realm against the white walkers. Or were you talking about some other type of club?
"Once in Hawaii I had sex with a 102 year old male turtle. It is difficult to argue that it was consensual." - Steve Ma
People pay for game hacks. It's all about delivery of a service. Paying someone to read to you for an hour a day doesn't produce a tangible product either.
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
Someone pilfered a bastard sword, golden dwarven ring, and 150,000 gold coins from another player on my DikuMUD yesterday.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
I read the same stories over and over again about EVE it really shouldn't be considered news anymore. It's Monday: babies were born, people died, people got scammed in EVE - business as usual.
The people who are serious about that game are there precisely to play with exactly those sorts of behavior. I feel a little sorry for new players who don't know that yet, but even the most basic research about the game would clue you in. What other games would call griefing and fraud are the real game of EVE - all that crap about spaceships is just to keep the marks distracted while the sharks nibble away at them.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
If you send that ISK to me, I promise I will send you back three times as much!
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
I don't know anything about EVE, but it sounds like life and Wall street.
Everybody gets fucked and and robbed by a few bad guys and after 2 weeks we continue playing...
Privacy is terrorism.
Why is that dumb? Most subscription-based MMOs charge $15 / €12 or so a month. That is less than one visit to the cinema. For that price you get a hell of a lot of entertainment out of an MMO, if you're into that sort of thing. Even if you sometimes buy a few gewgaws for real money from other players or an in-game store, it's still one of the cheaper pastimes in €/hour.
By the way, some MMOs are great vehicles for player-run RP scenarios, and you'll find plenty of roleplaying going on in there. You're still bound to certain conditions set by the game, but on the other hand, an MMO gives you access to a vast pool of potential roleplayers to adventure with. It is different from tabletop RPGs but not necessarily a poorer experience.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
I and many EVE players will agree 100% with what you said. However, the reason there is an in-game to real life money conversion in EVE is because you can buy game time with real money, convert that game time into an in-game item which can then be sold for in-game money to another player, who can then convert that item back to game time on his account (or a few other services such as character transfers/portrait changes, etc). But the overall idea is simply that some people will have real money but not time, and others have time but no real money. This allows both those groups to enjoy EVE as many people will happily buy game time for the current rate of in-game money since they have good in-game income sources and/or play time dedicated to earning it.
There was recently (end of July) a pretty large revolt in the game based on leaked emails and internal communications from the developers/management at CCP (the makers/runners of EVE) about allowing other items to be purchased with "micro-transactions". That was all about what you are talking about. Most a perfectly fine about the current system of simply trading items which can be redeemed for game time. It is when you can start buying ships, equipment, stat boosts, etc., ( and in this case "gold ammo") that everyone has a problem. CCP is in a bad spot financially right now because they have bitten off more than they can chew. They are developing 2 other games at the moment in conjunction with continuing to run EVE, with their only income stream being EVE. And they took out a lot of loans to develop these 2 other games which are due up in September/October, but those games are not out yet, and are not generating income. Thus their only income stream is EVE, so they were trying to find ways to take advantage of the whole free-2-play model that some new games are using by introducing micro-transactions. The problem is the game isn't free-2-play and the player base didn't like the fact that they were seeing a their in-game market possibly get destroyed by having CCP add an additional way to buy items (i.e. direct purchase and not thru the current in-game systems which are controlled by the players themselves, who mine the minerals, refine the minerals, research the blue-prints, manufacturer the components, manufacture the item, haul the items to market hubs, and sell the items on the market, all of which takes time, required significant investment in both skills and assets to perform. And now CCP was just going to update the database and "poof" add magic items into the game). This would destroy the game market as there multiple prices for the same item would not be tolerated, and would get correct via market forces, but the only market force that is able to change is the one run by players, as CCP's prices would be whatever they decide worked best for their quarterly statements, which means that it would drive a lot of players out of the market, people who have invested billions and even trillions of in game money to make the items they are selling and have certain fixed in-game costs in creating the item, while CCP just updates a database.... Thus the revolt.
We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
Traveling to tourist destinations makes you vulnerable to theft, too.
$50K is like ... what real scammers make in a day, or in an hour. The actual tragedy is that ingame currency actually has an OOG value because like most MMO's, EVE has succumbed to the temptation of RMT.
"I love my job, but I hate talking to people like you" (Freddie Mercury)
What's that in Monocles?
How many Monocles per Library of Congress, even?
Your somewhat vulnerable to theft anywhere. Whether going on vacation makes you more vulnerable depends where you are travelling FROM ;) and how much brought with you to lose.
It wasn't theft. It's not like the scammers broke into their account and transferred ISK to another account. It was a scam, and scams are part of the game.
It's entertainment. If you're getting your entertainment value for the money it's worth it. Otherwise not.
You can buy two months worth of EVE game time for the price of taking someone to the movies, so we're not talking a lot of money here.
Didn't the last 'big' scam in EVE go well past the 100,000 USD mark? This is not the biggest...
a) play the Elder Scrolls games. b) the inability to do what the fuck you want at any given time does not make it less of an RPG.
"16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
Counter-strike players also make themselves vulnerable to death.. Come on, it's a fucking game.
Google+ vs. Facebook, and why Google+ will fail
Well, as others have pointed out, most EVE players sink some cash upfront, then by participating in and profiting from the in-game economy, play for "free" (i.e. paying for their subscription with in-game currency) indefinitely. So if you understand buying a game, or renting one (ala WoW), that should make sense, too -- you're paying money to have fun.
As far as how the exact mechanics of "paying to have fun" skews into "buying virtual property" vs. "renting game time", that aspect's part of the particular appeal of EVE, a big chunk of it is that it _is_ a real virtual economy, with real virtual money and virtual goods acting practically like their real-world equivalents (including real stakes of losing your property in combat or your money in investments) -- for people with a high economic geek factor, that's a fantastic experiment that (as long as TPTB don't fuck it up) is a lot of fun just to be a part of. People who don't go that nuts for economics are less likely to play it vs. a strict fee per month game, because the whole economic layer is not fun for them, but work. Nothing wrong with either set of people...
Some players are not going to be able to compete against CCP, but there is no game without CCP.
Wow. This must be really big news for people who play video games (otherwise known as FAGGOTS).
You don't spend real-world money on in-game items. The only thing you have to pay for is the monthly subscription.
This is talking about someone who accrued a shitload of in-game currency, completely in-game. There was no real-world currency involved, except the article's comparison to $50,000 in subscription fees(because you can trade in-game currency for game time).
If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits
Paying someone to read to you for an hour a day doesn't produce a tangible product either.
That rather depends on what you have them read; pick the right text and you may learn something. (or, even better, do what I did and learn how to read for yourself)
Not everything that can be measured matters; Not everything that matters can be measured.
Interestingly enough these considerations apply precisely to EVE as well.
PVP: a slugflest the outcome of which is basically predetermined from the beginning of the engagement.
No Captain Kirk ramming the crippled ship down the giant evil reefer's maw, no Adama jumping the battlestar into the atmosphere underneath the Cylon over watch, no hiding behind an asteroid, no jamming their comms, no collision damage... no skill or cunning at all. Once someone with a better fit scrams you, you can take your hands of the keyboard and the outcome will be the same.
I should be able to punch a hole in a faction BS in my Velator when entering warp. At 3 AU/sec that BS should vaporize.
So instead of addressing this complete lack of playability, what does CCP do? On no, not fixing the game mechanics. We get walking in stations.
Bearparts
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
I'd like to invest in your newsletter.
It also depends on whom you've told, and how much you didn't bring with you, but left behind to be pillaged.
Sure, reply with a character name for me to Eve mail. I'll be happy to give you a few hints upon receipt of 100m ISK :)
Nick
My thousand dollar club was worth every penny. With it I shattered the skulls of my foes and defended the realm against the white walkers. Or were you talking about some other type of club?
I call shenanigans. Everyone knows you need to use obsidian to kill white walkers.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
You can't make another Bahamas just by hitting a button on your keyboard.
I guess then that the best defense to being robbed is to have nothing worth stealing?
It's conspicuous consumption.
You expend resources to prove that you have them.
And more importantly, because *other people* will judge you based on your tastes. Even though you might (and with good reason) not personally value a high cost brand over a cheap one, you have to accept the fact that other people will be watching your price tags, and it will control whose shoulders and elbows you'll get to rub with.
"stories of theft, underhanded dealings, criminal empires and general unscrupulous play." That's Bitcoin. The Bitcoin world has a story like that about once a week. The entire Bitcoin economy does about the volume of one supermarket.
I used to spend all my free time in EVE, and I was especially active in the financial aspect of the game. I made a lot of money dealing with the materials market, buying low, selling high, that sort of thing.
At one point, when I was still very interested in the game, I opened up my venture to investment by my corpmates, and the injection of additional capital allowed me to expand rapidly into other ventures, and my isk generation grew at a proportional rate.
The problem was I overextended myself and I started burning out. Eventually the game started to feel like a chore and I started playing less and less. During this time I also ended up going through some real life financial problems. With my interest in the game declining and real life financial issues starting to pile up, what did I decide to do?
I killed two birds with one stone. I used my in game contacts to track down an isk seller, robbed my corp mates, and liquidated my sizable in game fortune for enough cash to get me through several months.
It was easy as hell, and I feel no real regret. In fact Ive considered returning to eve and seeing if I could do it again, just to see if I could make as much as a real life carreer out of it. I still have my original characters and a few billion in cash left as seed money. Who knows.
I anyone making actual real money on these scams? (i mean they are interesting and all, and outright an obvious part of that world) but is anyone actually cashing it out into actual money.
would be interested in this i guess
>Gaming is suppose to be fun. It shouldn't require substantial spends in time and effort. Same goes for simulation, unless you're training for a real world job.
I am pretty sure no game would ever exist without a large number of people's substantial spends in time and effort.
Dungeon Tactics : Free Open Source SRPG
Technically, buying a video game is "spending money on virtual property." It's just that normally you get a whole lot of it for 20-60 bucks, but companies like Blizzard have realized that once they make that initial sale, they can sell you vastly less content for hyperinflated prices. Valve is also doing this with Team Fortress 2, where you can purchase hats and guns for real world money. Luckily you can also just make them or trade for them if you really want them.
The world you experience is only a close approximation of reality.
Honestly, when you do this in RL most of the time it isn't your shoulders and elbows you're ultimately looking to have rubbed.
That said, I could go for a back rub right now. Too bad I didn't spend enough money on her and I lost my last gf.
The world you experience is only a close approximation of reality.
Does this mean they've stopped spamming local now? Woohooo!!!!
I played eve for about a year, and these types of scams were advertised constantly.... and nearly NO ONE bought into them - mostly for the simple reason that everyone knows everything in the game is a scam.... (and there are much better scams too) so how in the world did this one become successful? only thing i can think is from the influx of newer players who don't know any better.
An MMO costs $15/mo, and has enough content to keep me busy for several months (if not years).
A single-player game costs $50, and I can exhaust their content in 2-4 weeks.
So my choices are to pay $15/mo, or $100/mo. Doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out where the better deal is.
I agree with you in the sense that people should spend time however they see fit. If they want to spend a ton of money and time on Eve, that's great. But in another sense, I have played Eve and know what a horrible game it is. I think for a lot of people it is more of an addiction then something fun. I imagine people ripped off by this scheme...many will quit and wonder why they spent so much of their life on something that ended so poorly when they could have played games designed to be fun (instead of addictive) or forged real life friendships.
Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
What a bunch of jerks... There has to be some really angry people...
I really hope someone fishes up these douche bag's private info (name, home address, phone number) and posts them in for all the scammed to see. As a matter of fact, I'm going to make it my mission to do just that.
Thats all EvE has now. Financial scams and tales of grandeur that happen in peoples heads. They have castrated the gameplay to a point of satire. 1 trillion ISK to do what? Sell it to RMT shops? Buy hangar full of faction fit Machariels? Oh wait, now its all about fashion items that cost more than real life clothes which you can festoon in front of a virtual mirror.
This game is such a stupid joke. Glorified screensaver.
Too bad I didn't spend enough money on her and I lost my last gf.
How many times must I remind you people? Hookers only continue rendering services if you keep paying them... Sheesh
Cool post bro, highfive \o
Please bear in mind that your $15 a month pays for server maintenance and the development of additional content which is provided to you at no charge. If I had the choice between paying WoW with low ping and regular content updates, versus getting it for free with shitty server reliability and content I can exhaust in a month, I'll take the pay option. As long as the product has a good quality to price ratio, I have no problem supporting it monthly.
:-)
Also, the bit about the virtual goods you can't keep if you stop playing isn't completely true. I have acquired many items in WoW that I would be saddened to lose access to, if only for posterity's sake. I fully intend to 'export' my character(s) from WoW once Blizzard announces the imminent EOL of their servers, and set up my own private server. Then I can just fire it up and log in to remember the good ol' days whenever I wish. No money required.
Cool post bro, highfive \o
In the GP's defense, knowledge isn't tangible either. Though it is an arguably more productive outcome than many other choices for spending one's time.
Cool post bro, highfive \o