Satellite Glitch Leaves Northern Canada In the (Internet) Dark

zentigger writes "At approximately 06:36 EDT Thursday, October 6, 2011, the Anik F2 satellite experienced an attitude control issue and lost earth lock, affecting C, Ku and Ka services. The satellite went into safety mode and moved from pointing to the earth to pointing to the sun. This has put most of Northern Canada in the dark as all internet and phone services come in over F2."

Comments

Don't worry, they're Canadians

[Anonymous Coward]

So they will politely and patiently wait out the problem.

Re:Don't worry, they're Canadians

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget writing polite letters to newspapers and politicians. Canadians like to write letters.

Re:Don't worry, they're Canadians

[Moheeheeko]

Most will just thank the satelite crators for the service they have had so far, and hope that they will continue such services in the future.

Re:Don't worry, they're Canadians

[na1led]

they've always been in the Dark, so it's no big deal!

Re:Don't worry, they're Canadians

[daem0n1x]

They're probably only 10 people, anyway.

Re:Don't worry, they're Canadians

[davester666]

Why is the default position for the satellite to provide internet acces to the sun?

Re:Don't worry, they're Canadians

[Anonymous Coward]

I would guess as to not interfere with other satellite signals. The antennae are design to broadcast in a certain pattern.

Re:Don't worry, they're Canadians

[Mitchell314]

Yeah, but if multiple satellites point at the sun then it still gets interference.

Re:Don't worry, they're Canadians

[Anonymous Coward]

That way a satellite gone crazy is broadcasting garbage in to space instead of in to active communication areas.

Re:Don't worry, they're Canadians

[The Archon V2.0]

Yeah, but if multiple satellites point at the sun then it still gets interference.

The Sun has yet to send us an angry letter saying we're interfering with its soaps.

Re:Don't worry, they're Canadians

[MacTO]

I've been in places like that before, and it's about all that you can do. There is no sense in getting upset over something that is beyond anyone's control.

Re:Don't worry, they're Canadians

[flablader]

I'd guess that the satellite's solar powered and in the event of a "safety mode" it's programmed to point the solar arrays fully at the sun while ground operators figure out what's going on.

Re:Don't worry, they're Canadians

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is the default position for the satellite to provide internet acces to the sun?

Solar babies need pr0n too.

Re:Don't worry, they're Canadians

[Anonymous Coward]

It points its antennas away so that if it's spewing out signals they don't play havoc with other satellites nearby.

Re:Don't worry, they're Canadians

[OffaMyLawn]

Maybe that's what the sunspot interference is but we're not intelligent enough to decipher the message?

Re:Don't worry, they're Canadians

[AdamJS]

I don't know about you, but I find kicking at the snow in fits of inconsolable rage to be quite stress relieving.

Re:Don't worry, they're Canadians

[Anonymous Coward]

WildBlue satellite internet service in the US also leases bandwidth from the Anik-F2 satellite for roughly half it's customers (the other half use another satellite, WildBlue1).

Re:Don't worry, they're Canadians

[lolcutusofbong]

satellite craters

I thought they just had one of those last week in Canada.

Re:Don't worry, they're Canadians

[grcumb]

They're probably only 10 people, anyway.

I was one of the '10' the last time this happened.

I was living in Iqaluit at the time, but was actually in flight to Pond Inlet at the northern tip of Baffin Island when the outage occurred. It was a very bizarre feeling to arrive in one of the most remote communities in the world and find I'd stepped back in time by a century.

Telephone, TV, and most other means of communications simply stopped. But people in the Arctic are adaptable. They don't last long if they aren't. Emergency communications were hopped from airport-to-pilot-to-ground from the hamlet (It's a LONG way from any other habitation). We hunkered down, and yes, politely waited for news.

As the wikipedia link indicates, we waited for days while the local telco flew technicians across the territory to reposition their dishes and get services running.

It was the experience of living in a remote location - close to the technological edge, as it were - that led me to drop what I was doing a few years later and leave for the South Pacific, where I live today. (Also: When I left Iqaluit, I promised myself I'd never be cold again.) I live in a country with only satellite service, and have worked for the last 8 years helping to improve communications here.

(Not so) amusingly, about a year and a half after I arrived, the satellite providing service to our region suffered catastrophic failure. I was able to use my experience in the Arctic to help convince people here of the dangers of relying on a single source of data communications. We should be getting a submarine cable in 2012-13, and once that happens, I just might be able to rely on Internet again.

Re:Don't worry, they're Canadians

[Anonymous Coward]

Because it's easy to find, as it's always the brightest thing in the sky (unless you get *really* off-course), so it provide an absolute point of reference. It's also the only source of energy and a significant factor in thermal regulation; the first things you want to do after your stop tumbling blindly through space are make sure you have power and get thermally balanced so that you'll have enough time to deal with other problems before you run out of power and melt/freeze.

Re:Don't worry, they're Canadians

[Anonymous Coward]

Typically the payload radios are disabled by any safe-mode operation -- only the low-bandwidth baseband/telemetry systems stay active -- to prevent such interference and to conserve power.

Re:Don't worry, they're Canadians

[riverat1]

That's only half of the year, the other half of the year they're always in the Light.

Re:Don't worry, they're Canadians

[sjames]

If the residents of the sun would care to file a complaint, I'm sure it will be given due consideration.

Re:Don't worry, they're Canadians

[EETech1]

if you BTFA (Believe The Article) that's what they say too!

Re:Don't worry, they're Canadians

[kmoser]

It needs to update its JVM.

Re:Don't worry, they're Canadians

[Pieroxy]

It's probably waiting for a good word from the Oracle.

Re:Don't worry, they're Canadians

[gx5000]

lol, thanks for that...most Business centers were not affected, we're talking NORTH north here....

Re:Don't worry, they're Canadians

[Anonymous Coward]

It's safe mode default is to point to the sun so as to remain powered.
Services have also been restored: http://www.satbeams.com/satellites/anik-f2-service-restored

Get an academic on this pronto

[Iamthecheese]

This is the perfect chance to find out the real cost of a first world nation not having internet access. We need these numbers to make better laws about internet access restriction and even to decide whether it should be a right.

Re:Get an academic on this pronto

[Anonymous Coward]

Northern Canada is not really a first-world region. It's mostly empty, frozen land and remote communities of native people living pretty basic lifestyles. Not much in common with the cities in the South.

Re:Get an academic on this pronto

[waterford0069]

That depends on whether you consider "Northern Canada" 1st world or not. I'm sure many of it's inhabitants would be happy just living in 2nd world conditions (visit most First Nations Reserves in any part of Canada and experience the 3rd world in North America).

Beside, most of Southern Canada, say bellow the 54th parallel is A.O.K. as far as internet and phone connectivity goes today. Well, except paying through the nose for a Gig of data (wired or wireless) compared to many parts of the world.

Re:Get an academic on this pronto

[Anonymous Coward]

That depends on whether you consider "Northern Canada" 1st world or not. I'm sure many of it's inhabitants would be happy just living in 2nd world conditions (visit most First Nations Reserves in any part of Canada and experience the 3rd world in North America).

Beside, most of Southern Canada, say bellow the 54th parallel is A.O.K. as far as internet and phone connectivity goes today. Well, except paying through the nose for a Gig of data (wired or wireless) compared to many parts of the world.

Northern Canada is exactly the same as everywhere else in this 1ST WORLD COUNTRY, it's just colder. Come freeze your balls off and see for yourself.

Re:Get an academic on this pronto

[Anonymous Coward]

Northern Canada is hardly a good test situation as the population density there is nearly that of the Sahara. A better test would be to knock out internet and such to Vancouver. Besides, a loss of internet isn't going to really "cost" much in areas already geographically remote enough to routinely have sub-par services and lower end infrastructure. They are already prepared for losses of services due to natural events.... such as winter.

Re:Get an academic on this pronto

[robthebloke]

What do the UK, US, germany, Japan, and Canada all have in common? That's right, they all have polar bears.
What do Ghana, Zimbabwe, and Afghanistan have in common? That's right, no polar bears at all.

So as you can see, countries with polar bears are developed, those without are less developed. Q.E.D. Canada is a developed country because it has polar bears.

Re:Get an academic on this pronto

[robthebloke]

Come freeze your balls off and see for yourself.

No thanks, I'd just spend too much time looking at the empty space where my balls used to sit.......

Re:Get an academic on this pronto

[Antisyzygy]

Gladly. I prefer cold environments. Ill just wear a few scrotum warmers made out of Moose hide.

Re:Get an academic on this pronto

[Antisyzygy]

In zoo's perhaps.

Re:Get an academic on this pronto

[Antisyzygy]

I think this person you are responding to thinks North Canada is redundant. I.e. Canada is north of the US, so it must be all of Canada!

Re:Get an academic on this pronto

[roman_mir]

A right?

I don't think you know what that word is.

There are only individual rights. The 'civil or labor rights' are actually entitlements given by government decree to some, while imposing obligations on others. Same with anything else that you have to be provided by somebody. It's an entitlement, not a right.

I had this same discussion a number of times, why do people never seem to understand basic concepts?

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2450838&cid=37575982
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2450838&cid=37554214
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2450838&cid=37558726
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2450838&cid=37558814
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2450838&cid=37558814
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2450838&cid=37556278
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2450838&cid=37553622

'Right' is a concept that is only meaningful to describe a relationship between an individual an government, because gov't is a system, not an individual.

Relationships between private individuals and businesses are covered by criminal and contract law.

Having a 'right' to Internet would require this to be an obligation upon businesses that would have to provide this entitlement, obviously this would make it into an 'essential' service and the prices, by the way, would immediately be much higher than what they are now.

See health care, insurance, education and AT&T monopoly that was given to it by government, which destroyed 4000 competitors for a good example of how that shit works.

Re:Get an academic on this pronto

[S.O.B.]

There are no polar bears in the UK, Japan or Germany.

Q.E.D. robthebloke is too lazy to do a two second internet search.

Re:Get an academic on this pronto

[floppypond]

While I agree that would be wonderful, there are very few people up there, and I would hardly call northern Canada 'first world'.

Re:Get an academic on this pronto

[Anonymous Coward]

More like this is the perfect chance to find out how many people on Slashdot need a basic geography lesson. There is nothing Insightful about the parent comment.

Re:Get an academic on this pronto

[Abstrackt]

So what you're saying is that we should start a polar bear breeding program in less developed countries?

Re:Get an academic on this pronto

[waterford0069]

I've stood on the corner of Portage and Main when it's 40 below ('F or 'C - it don't matter) with a 50km/h North wind coming down Main, and a 40km/h West wind coming down Portage enough times to say I KNOW Canada. Parts of it are 1st world, and parts of it are 3rd world - don't kid yourself.

Re:Get an academic on this pronto

[kwark]

They are in downtown Berlin:
http://www.eisbaeren.de/content/index.php
They are even being made in the UK:
http://www.polarbears.co.uk/
Japan is the number 1 importer of polar bears:
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20091002f4.html

Re:Get an academic on this pronto

[Toonol]

'Right' is a concept that is only meaningful to describe a relationship between an individual an government, because gov't is a system, not an individual.

I don't think this is accurate. You have the right to speak, and I don't have the right to stop you. I just have the right to not assist you in any way, or allow you to use my property to execute that right. This is true in individual transactions, even when there is no government involved.

In a broader sense, I completely agree with your comments. The only way somebody could think they have a right to internet access is if they have a fundamental misunderstanding of what rights are. Or, in modern terms, they're substituting "Claim Rights" for "Liberty Rights", which is a way of destroying the basis of rights.

Re:Get an academic on this pronto

[roman_mir]

You have the right to speak, and I don't have the right to stop you

- based on what do you believe such things? Now, if me 'stopping' you involves something that violates the criminal code or a private contract, then I could agree, but otherwise it's not the case.

So you are on my private property and you are doing some sort of thing, you believe is 'free speech' and I use my resources (let's say private security force), to kick you out of my private property. There is no way that I have 'violated your free speech', because it doesn't apply to a private interaction. It applies only when your right to speech is violated by the government. So for example you own a newspaper and you print something about a government agency, that the government doesn't like - for example you discover the true nature of what EPA is busy doing - violating people's right to own property and due process. The government doesn't like your article and it brings in some FBI agents or whatever cops to shut you down, in fact with a court order as well, and if you don't comply they fine you and throw you to jail or just shoot you.

THAT would be in violation of your rights. Not a private individual denying you access to private property to proclaim your messages.

Re:Get an academic on this pronto

[operagost]

FDR started that back in the Great Depression with his "freedom from want" nonsense. Because there is no free lunch, in order to get something someone must give it to you. If it's given freely, that's charity. If it's taken, it's theft. If it's taken, then 10% is given to a needy person while the rest is spent on poetry festivals and hookers, that's socialism.

Re:Get an academic on this pronto

[overlordofmu]

The polar bears have asked me to point out that the USA and Canada have set up illegal permanent settlements in sovereign polar bear lands.

The polar bears also asked me to point out that humans taste good and deserve to be eaten by said polar bears.

That is all . . . for now.

Re:Get an academic on this pronto

[jonbryce]

In the UK http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=70764
Japan http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/27/polar_bear_breeding/
Germany http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/15260029

Re:Get an academic on this pronto

[billcopc]

Do you even have two functioning brain cells to rub together ?

Northern Canada is the sparsely-populated area that's too friggin cold for most Canadians. There are only a handful of small towns up there, primarily native americans and the occasional labour town. Not only is the population very very small, but I'd wager that very few of them are technically minded. The mere fact that all of their telecomms are handled by a lone satellite should be a pretty big hint about how minimal their needs are. It's the kind of place where the local ISP is a guy with a day job, who shares his internet feed with the whole neighbourhood via Wi-Max. There is no sprawling network of underground fibre up there, it's all very frontier-town and I doubt they're all that worried about a temporary outage.

Re:Get an academic on this pronto

[sjbe]

This is the perfect chance to find out the real cost of a first world nation not having internet access.

You haven't been to northern Canada have you? It's about as sparsely populated a place as you are ever likely to find. The vast majority of the population lives within a few hours drive of the southern border.

Re:Get an academic on this pronto

[Flyerman]

That's impossible. Once you put a Polar Bear in, they'll become developed.

I thought that was obvious.

Re:Get an academic on this pronto

[geekoid]

You have no clue about 'freedom from want'. You also don't know what socialism is.

Quite frankly, people like you are why we are in such a bad place politically.

Re:Get an academic on this pronto

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do YOU not understand what is meant by an right to internet.

It doesn't mean a company is required to provide you internet. What it DOES mean is that the government is not able to ban you from the internet.

It fits your definition of a right precisely, it's a restriction on what the government can do to you. It would mean for example, that a court couldn't say, hey you commited crime X, so we will fine you and also ban you from the internet for 5 years, because that would be the government violating your right to internet. It says nothing about whether a company can choose to sell you internet or not.

Re:Get an academic on this pronto

[Anonymous Coward]

So what you're saying is that we should start a polar bear breeding program in less developed countries?

No, don't be foolish. But what do polar bears do? They float. What else floats? That's right, wood. So we need to change the atmospheric pressure of the earth until we are all the same density as wood - then everyone is a member of a first-world-nation. I'll accept a Nobel now, thank you.

Re:Get an academic on this pronto

[molukki]

Having a 'right' to Internet would require this to be an obligation upon businesses that would have to provide this entitlement, obviously this would make it into an 'essential' service and the prices, by the way, would immediately be much higher than what they are now.

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/10/14/2229231/-1Mb-Broadband-Access-Becomes-Legal-Right-In-Finland "1Mb Broadband Access Becomes Legal Right In Finland"

I don't see your comments there.

Re:Get an academic on this pronto

[roman_mir]

As I said, people misunderstand the concept of what a right is and they abuse that concept, turning what amounts to be entitlements to rights, which puts obligations on others.

Re:Get an academic on this pronto

[Anonymous Coward]

Having a 'right' to Internet would require this to be an obligation upon businesses that would have to provide this entitlement, obviously this would make it into an 'essential' service and the prices, by the way, would immediately be much higher than what they are now.

See health care, insurance, education and AT&T monopoly that was given to it by government, which destroyed 4000 competitors for a good example of how that shit works.

Yeah, because everybody could afford education back when it wasn't an entitlement... You would know, since you grew up back then and weren't entitled to education and didn't get any...

Re:Get an academic on this pronto

[jdavidb]

First I want to see a study where we find out if rights should even be decided by academics and studies, or not.

Re:Get an academic on this pronto

[gx5000]

How will the Buffalo get the hockey scores ? Think of the polar bears !!

Re:Get an academic on this pronto

[S.O.B.]

To all the "clever" people that pointed out that UK, Japan and Germany do have polar bears in zoos and other enclosures I will clarify that my meaning was that UK, Japan and Germany do not have any NATIVE polar bears.

I thought based on the thread of the conversation that that point was implied but I forgot I was on Slashdot where people don't read summaries or the context of what they are responding to.

I clearly forgot to spell everything out like I was speaking to a five year old. My bad.

Re:Get an academic on this pronto

[Geminii]

So when it comes to upgrading a country quickly, we should grin and bear it?

How 1960s

[Anonymous Coward]

It's time to get rid of these antiqued orbiting antennas and all the associated headaches. Just bring fiber to the North, damn it. Technology has changed so much (that's the usual refrain), why are we still using decades-old technology?

Re:How 1960s

[bugs2squash]

Yes, just tie it to the back of white fang, say mush, and watch the spool unreel.

Re:How 1960s

[LikwidCirkel]

Do you have any idea how sparse the population is up there, and just how much land you'd have to cover? It's like laying 500km of fiber for every person.

Not to mention that you'd have to deal with seasonal melting and freezing of muskeg and swamps and lakes.

Not going to happen any time soon.

Re:How 1960s

[Lieutenant_Dan]

Simple: economics. It costs money to support and maintain. In a country as large as Canada there's a lot of infrastructure (rail, roads, air traffic, mail, and in some cases telephone) that is paid or subsized by the federal (or provincial) government. For instance, there's a a beautifully maintained ~200km highway stretch between Barrie and Sudbury (Ontario) with very little in between. You have very limited wireless coverage as well (not even talking cell phones here, just old-fashioned radio/CB), important for things like emergency services. Who is paying for that?

In some parts of the world it's not viable to have a small community on the larger "grid". I've been to many locations in Vancouver Island, northern Ontario, Manitoba, and Alberta where your communications and even utility options are very limited.

I've also seen that in parts of New Mexico, Colorado, and Quintana Roo that are isolated. I'm sure Russia has the same challenges.

Re:How 1960s

[Hatta]

Won't work. Hikers in the Canadian wilderness have long carried a piece of fiber optic cable with them. If they get lost, they just bury the cable and hitch a ride back when the backhoe comes to dig it up.

Re:How 1960s

[Anonymous Coward]

They used to have microwave relay antennas all over Canada, you know... Given the relatively small population up North, I don't think it would take such an enormous effort to get something newer, better and faster in the North. Space is kind of old-school and resource-intensive.

Re:How 1960s

[Kozar_The_Malignant]

Just bring fiber to the North, damn it.

No need for fiber. I believe copper is a superconductor at those temperatures.

Re:How 1960s

[adonoman]

Because as soon as you get fiber to the North, you're done? Nunavut has a land area bigger than Alaska and 1/20th the population. The largest town is only 7,000 people. The rest are spread across dozens of tiny communities across the north.

Re:How 1960s

[snowraver1]

Satellite is pretty much the only option for rural areas. The Canadian north is REALLY, REALLY, big. Many of the camps up there are temporary and not worth running permanent infrastructure up there. Alot of the customers of satelite services are commercial applications. Oil companies, Loggers, other natual resources. The people that live up there are mostly in small towns or cities, but that still leaves millions of square kms that are very remote. Would you really invest in running a fiber to a camp that only services 100 people for 3 years then dissapears? Setup a wireless tower that will not be needed in a few years? Satellite is the way to go. It sure does suck, and it's definately unreliable, but it's really the only option. As I write this, 7 of my sites are affected by this outage. Believe me, if we could get them on another type of serivce, we would, but for now, this is what we get.

Re:How 1960s

[realityimpaired]

Because it doesn't make a lot of sense to run a fibre 1,000 miles through rough terrain with no road access, and where you can't bury it thanks to the permafrost layer, to serve a community of 200, which would be considered a large community in some parts of northern Canada?

I don't think anybody in the states outside of people working in the mining industry and people living in Alaska have any clue how remote Canada's high arctic actually is, nor how desolate things get once you're above the tree line.

hilarious :)

[Anonymous Coward]

"attitude control issue"

Re:hilarious :)

[bohmt]

attitude: Aeronautics . the inclination of the three principal axes of an aircraft relative to the wind, to the ground, etc. ie where it is pointing

Re:hilarious :)

[Anonymous Coward]

3. The orientation of an aircraft's axes relative to a reference line or plane, such as the horizon.
4. The orientation of a spacecraft relative to its direction of motion.

Deceptive Summary

[idontgno]

Even the editors* noticed that and added the parenthetical clarification.

"In the dark" does not mean "in the literal darkness, without the power to generate light or heat." I.e., not a power generation or distribution problem, which is the expected context of the stock phrase "in the dark".

They mean "In the INTARWEBS dark." As in, no Facebook, no Twitter, no YouTube.

You know, an actual crisis.

*Seriously. How bad do you have to be, that the world-famous Slashdot Editor Corps feels compelled to actually edit you? That's... INCONCEIVABLE.

Re:Deceptive Summary

[N!k0N]

That's... INCONCEIVABLE.

you keep saying that. I'm not sure it means what you think it means.

Re:Deceptive Summary

[Ian_Bailey]

Although you are correct in that it is not a literal power outage, it is far more than just the "INTARWEBS", because so much in the North depends on Satellite communication.

From the article:
"People in Iqaluit are reporting they are without cell phone service and long-distance calling, bank machines and debit-card machines. At least one bank in the city has not opened today as a result. Flights are also being delayed."

Re:Deceptive Summary

[Anonymous Coward]

you keep saying that. I'm not sure it means what you think it means.

It just so happens that your internet here is only MOSTLY dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive.

Re:Deceptive Summary

[geekmux]

From the article: "People in Iqaluit are reporting they are without cell phone service and long-distance calling, bank machines and debit-card machines. At least one bank in the city has not opened today as a result. Flights are also being delayed."

From the book of Common F. Sense: "Banks and other critical infrastructure services should probably consider a backup land-line. It wasn't that long ago that ATM/debit card machines were dialing up to the banks. A slow bank transaction is a hell of a lot better than NO bank transaction."

Along those same lines, don't suppose there would be any industry-wide regulation that requires that banks and other critical infrastructure services actually have a backup connection or plan to mitigate mass outages like this...just a thought.

Re:Deceptive Summary

[mhotchin]

A back-up landline? Really?
Note:it doesn't exist! The distances and terrain to northern Canada are truely immense. The cost of providing (and maintaining!) a landline to northern communities is probably more than putting up 1 or more spare satellites!

Re:Deceptive Summary

[jonbryce]

Canada is by land area larger than every other country in the world except for Russia, but has a population about half the size of the UK and most of that population lives near the border with the US on the East and West Coasts and the Great Lakes area. Elsewhere you don't have things like landlines or electricity grids because there just isn't enough people to justify it. You can easily be 2000km to 3000km from the nearest big city. Yes, the cables from London to New York are about 5500km, but they carry a lot more traffic than a cable to a little village in the Arctic Circle would.

Re:Deceptive Summary

[compro01]

Do you know where Iqaluit is?

It's about 600 miles or so to the nearest major city and on an island too.

Landlines are decidedly impractical.

Re:Deceptive Summary

[Ironhandx]

last estimate to run a fibre cable to Iqaluit(population 6000 ish) was 97 million. 5 years ago.

Re:Deceptive Summary

[geekmux]

Do you know where Iqaluit is?

It's about 600 miles or so to the nearest major city and on an island too.

Landlines are decidedly impractical.

I've lived and worked in remote locations before. Needless to say, it's called preparation. In Alaska, you would be a fool to drive around in a car in the dead of winter without some form of emergency supplies in your car(food, emergency blankets, some form of heat source, etc.) in the event your car breaks down. Your life actually depends on this type of preparation.

If an entire town sitting on an island is going to be reliant upon satellite comms for damn near every form of communication(including banks), perhaps it would be wise to have available a bit more than 27 cents, some shotgun shells, and a can of dog food.

Meanwhile

[otaku244]

Residents on the Sun say their reception has gone up 100%

Re:Meanwhile

[Anonymous Coward]

No one lives on the sun you idiot. The rent is too high.

Re:Meanwhile

[roblarky]

They're only slightly annoyed by the > 8 minute latency.

Re:Meanwhile

[Anonymous Coward]

but the 16 minute ping time is hell

Re:Meanwhile

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

As a long time AOL user and satisfied customer, it's not very often I get the chance to call anybody else a wuss....

Re:Meanwhile

[Xacid]

But I hear the chicks are HOT!

Oblig...

[DigitalSorceress]

It's as if a hundred voices cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.

Ok, sorry that was in bad taste. I love my frosty neighbors to the North (I've spent a lot of time in Canada and really do love the place and the people). I hope they get interwebz back soon.

Re:Oblig...

[Anonymous Coward]

Most of the canadian population lives within a couple hundred kilometres of the border anyway, so this inconveniences very few people relatively speaking. I wonder if there will be a population boom in 9 months as people look for an alternative entertainment :)

Re:Oblig...

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't worry, they can't read your comment anyway!

Re:Oblig...

[Anonymous Coward]

At least it wasn't during a hockey game. Then that phrase would have been 100% correct.

They can't hear us anymore...

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's say everything about Canada we were too polite to say earlier!

Re:They can't hear us anymore...

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Erm... actually, Canada's been a pretty good sport about our jokes. We don't have anything held back to say!

However, when France loses it's internet connection....

Re:They can't hear us anymore...

[HornWumpus]

Who has been holding back on French jokes?

They are not good sports, but who the fuck cares? What are they going to do?

Q: What did the mayor of Paris say to the general at the front to of the German armored columns rolling into town?

A: Table for 150,000 misuer.?

Re:They can't hear us anymore...

[Anonymous Coward]

Q: What did the mayor of Paris say to the general at the front to of the German armored columns rolling into town?

A: Table for 150,000 misuer.?

That's nonsense. Everybody knows he had his mouth full and couldn't talk.

Re:They can't hear us anymore...

[Kozar_The_Malignant]

I get really tired of this shit.

WWI deaths by number and percent of population*:

• France - 1,697,800 - 4.29%
• US - 117,465 - 0.13%

WWII deaths by number and percent of population:

• France - 567,600 - 1.35%
• US - 418,500 - 0.32%

Bear in mind that the French deaths in WWII all occurred in the European theatre, while those of the US occurred in both Europe and Asia. I think it is fair to say that the French did their fair share of fighting and dying in both wars.

*from Wikipedia

Re:They can't hear us anymore...

[Clsid]

The Soviet Union had it worse and still they preferred to endure cold, hunger and death before surrendering to the enemy. Point in question: Leningrad/St. Petersburg as well as Stalingrad/Volgograd. Read what happened there and you will realize that the French, with the clear exception of the partisans, acted like freaking cowards.

Re:They can't hear us anymore...

[HornWumpus]

The French (and Brits) had monumentally incompetent leadership in WWI. General Pershing deserves much credit for refusing to use American troops as replacement cannon fodder for the frogs and brits. Between Napoleon and WWI balls were bred out of the French population and culture.

I'm betting most of the French deaths in WWII were fighting _for_ the Axis or civilians killed in bombing raids. In ether case the fact remains they were unable to defend their own country from a similarly sized nation.

More basically, the reason to have a strong military is so your nation doesn't end up being the battlefield in the first place.

Re:They can't hear us anymore...

[operagost]

Only French people would hold up being bad at fighting as a badge of honor. Maybe US soldiers are just better at ducking.

Re:They can't hear us anymore...

[danlip]

That shows they did their fair share of dying, not their fair share of fighting.

1st Iran

[Anonymous Coward]

and now Canada... Sure, tell 'em it's a satellite (smirk) issue - how can they verify it!

BTW, just kidding

So all three ...

[NikeHerc]

So all three folks up there are without the internet?

(Just jokin', folks. Canada has been the best northern neighbor the U.S. ever had!)

Re:So all three ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Not to mention the only.

Re:So all three ...

[mr1911]

Whoosh

Re:So all three ...

[Guspaz]

Not all that far from the truth. About 90% of the population lives within 160km of the US border. The three territories make up 39% of the area of Canada, but only 0.3% of the population.

Fiber to remote communities difficult

[rwade]

From what I understand, northern Canada is somewhat remote. In fact, I understand there to be limited road access above the 75th parallel in much of the country. I would posit that it would be unfeasibly expensive to lay and maintain fiber cable out through difficult a media (permafrost) to support communities that number in the dozens.

Satellites seem to me to offer the best way to connect small settlements spread out across millions of square miles of the Canadian back country.

Re:Fiber to remote communities difficult

[Anonymous Coward]

Check your atlas. I'm pretty sure there are no roads above the 75th parallel because there is a dearth of land up there upon which to build roads. :-) I think you mean 55th parallel, which would be accurate.

Re:Fiber to remote communities difficult

[rwade]

Check your atlas. I'm pretty sure there are no roads above the 75th parallel because there is a dearth of land up there upon which to build roads. :-) I think you mean 55th parallel, which would be accurate.

Sometimes I would just kill for a way to revise my slashdot comments. About 3 minutes after I posted, I did some googling and found that the 60th parallel separates the lower Canadian provinces from NWT, Yukon, and Nunavut.

Don't know where the long-distance roads stop, though. I was just in Quebec and remember looking at a road atlas to see how far north the road from Chicoutimi reached -- for some reason, the 75th stuck in my head. Don't know why, though...

Re:Fiber to remote communities difficult

[green1]

The territory of Nunavut has no roads connecting out of the territory to the rest of Canada, and very few (if any) roads between communities in the territory.

The Northwest Territories have very few roads, you can pretty much drive from the south to their capital (Yellowknife) and not much else (it should be noted that travel to Yellowknife involves a ferry trip in the summer, an ice road in the winter, and no connection at all in the between seasons)

There is also the famous Demster highway to Inuvik Northwest Territories via the Yukon, I have driven this road, it is nearly 800km long, and is made of very rough gravel. It has one gas station about half way. there are 2 ferry crossings (ice roads in the winter, no connection in the between seasons), and no other sign of human life. The road can not be paved due to the permafrost (try paving on top of ice and see how well it lasts). The village of Tuktoyuktuk lies slightly further north and is inaccessible by road except in the winter when an ice road is in place on the river. Tuk is on the arctic ocean.

The town of Inuvik is a very interesting place in fact, with all utilities above ground because of the permafrost (this includes water and sewer which run in above ground "utilidor" banks which are kept heated to prevent freezing) houses are built on stilts as sitting directly on the ground is a recipe for disaster.

I have never been anywhere more isolated than those 2 communities, and they are actually among the best connected settlements in the "north".
According to wikipedia the territory of Nunavut has a population of 33,000 people in 1.9 million square kilometres. that's pretty spread out! (in fact their largest "city" is only 6,000 people (Iqaluit))

Is the internet in Canada 100% satellite?

[mehrotra.akash]

Dont they have undersea fiber connections to the country, and DSL and stuff? Or even dialup? Why would half the country use only Satellite as thier Internet connection?

Re:Is the internet in Canada 100% satellite?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because of the ridiculously low population density more than 100 miles from the American border.

Re:Is the internet in Canada 100% satellite?

[LikwidCirkel]

This only effects remote northern communities where fiber is unfeasible. It's around 60% of the area and much less than 1% of the population.

Re:Is the internet in Canada 100% satellite?

[Dinghy]

It generally has to do with population density. This is northern Canada.

Re:Is the internet in Canada 100% satellite?

[Anonymous Coward]

Dont they have undersea fiber connections to the country, and DSL and stuff?
Or even dialup?

Why would half the country use only Satellite as thier Internet connection?

Northern Canada does not mean the Northern half of Canada. It means the very very far north. Communities are very remote, populations are tiny.

Re:Is the internet in Canada 100% satellite?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you consider that 'half the country' resides in Northern Canada... you're sorely mistaken.

I'd hazard a guess and say that less than 15% of the Canadian population is affected by this issue.

Re:Is the internet in Canada 100% satellite?

[isorox]

Dont they have undersea fiber connections to the country, and DSL and stuff?
Or even dialup?

Why would half the country use only Satellite as thier Internet connection?

99.999999% of Candians live within 100 miles of the U.S. Border, in towns and cities, with cable and dsl.

There are 6,784 people living north of about 52N. Even some of these people may have cable and satellite in their towns, but the towns rely on satellites for their uplinks.

Re:Is the internet in Canada 100% satellite?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not sure if trolling.

Re:Is the internet in Canada 100% satellite?

[Anonymous Coward]

When they say Northern Canada, they mean the very top: Nunavut, N.W.T. and Yukon. Majority of Canada is serviced by fiber, not so "dark ages" as you think.

Re:Is the internet in Canada 100% satellite?

[waterford0069]

You're trolling, right? You know that North Dakota has no ocean view.

Re:Is the internet in Canada 100% satellite?

[Lieutenant_Dan]

In even some newer communities in south-western Ontario, you couldn't get highspeed Internet via DSL/cable/fibre/WiFi. I know of a couple rural spots around Guelph and Cambridge where folks have sat feeds (plus the old phone lines for upstream) for Internet. So even within the 100km (and less than one hour's drive from Toronto) range from the US border, sometimes your options are limited

Re:Is the internet in Canada 100% satellite?

[InsertWittyNameHere]

Too expensive to run/maintain cables to every city/town/village in the north. If you look at this map you can see the coverage you get for the cost of one satellite.

Re:Is the internet in Canada 100% satellite?

[Anonymous Coward]

Northern Canada. Were talking about nunavat, nwt, and the Yukon. It's not half of Canada. The reason is because way up there there are few cities and most of it is isolated towns and Indian reserves. It's a logistical nightmare to string fiber optics up there. The vast majority of Canadians including me have had no trouble at all

Re:Is the internet in Canada 100% satellite?

[Anonymous Coward]

The American border? That would imply the border between America and something else, which isn't actually the case.

Re:Is the internet in Canada 100% satellite?

[defiantredpill]

I'm from Windsor Ontario (Border city to Detroit), and never meet any one that had to use satellite based Internet, Most everyone has DSL, Cable, WiMax like Wireless and of course 3G etc. My guess is that 90% of Canadians affected by this live in igloos. ;)

Re:Is the internet in Canada 100% satellite?

[robthebloke]

Dont they have undersea fiber connections to the country, and DSL and stuff?

Yup, it runs under the Canadian ocean which entirely separates the continent of the USA from the continent of canada.

Or even dialup?

This is no time for pizza.

Why would half the country use only Satellite as thier Internet connection?

Because the other half are running away from man eating polar bears.

Re:Is the internet in Canada 100% satellite?

[aaarrrgggh]

Ok... I actually checked the population numbers... Canada total - 35MM. Northwestern Territories - 43,000. Nunavummiut - 33,000. Biggest cities in each are 20,000 and 6,000, respectively. So, that is a whole 0.2% without internet service if the whole territories are out.

Re:Is the internet in Canada 100% satellite?

[adonoman]

Whatever idiot moderated this informative should go look for a sale on a new hyperbole detector. There's roughly that many people above 68N, and there's a city of nearly 1,000,000 north of 52N. The general point is valid though - the parts of Canada affected by this are expansive and barely populated.

Re:Is the internet in Canada 100% satellite?

[Anonymous Coward]

Either you're stupid or trolling, maybe both.

First, Canada borders the USA at land borders, undersea cables connect the Pacific to countries across the pacific, via Oregon in the USA. The Atlantic is connected via PEI to the UK, but even that starts in Massachusetts. http://www.cablemap.info/ You'll note that there are no undersea cables between the UK, Russia, or any other country with an Arctic border to Canada's north.

The land-lines and television are connected via satellite in NWT and Nunavut, so DSL, Cable and Dial-up would be unusable without the satellite. The only other links to the are are via Iridium satellite, and AM Radio. You can't suddenly run everyone's digital services via Iridium's single-ISDN speed connection.

What this does show however is how you shouldn't keep all your eggs in one basket.

Here's a list of everything "dead" while the satellite is pointing away that is usable with consumer equipment:
http://www.lyngsat.com/anikf2.html

Of note, the service formerly known as StarChoice (Now called Shaw Direct) is effectively crippled, since half the channels are on it. The competing service BellTV uses 4 satellites, none of them are the Anik series.

There is also an internet service provider called WildBlue on it.

 

Re:Is the internet in Canada 100% satellite?

[Monkey]

I live in the Yukon. Only one of our communities, Old Crow, is on a satellite uplink. Everywhere else in the territory is linked by either fiber or a microwave shot. However, in the NWT and Nunavut they have many remote communities like Old Crow that don't even have road access, and therefore satellite is the only realistic option.

Re:Is the internet in Canada 100% satellite?

[Lieutenant_Dan]

There's rural parts up the 401 from you where some folks have Sat service (with upstream done via phone). I've seen this in Guelph, Cambridge/Galt and New Hamburg. Typically new "exclusive" neighbourhoods where the old loops exist (too crappy for DSL) or where Shaw/Rogers haven't provided cable. A relative of mine had that for 2-3 years, he got Rogers in his area only last year.

Re:Is the internet in Canada 100% satellite?

[Mashiki]

Nope. This sucker carries about 40% of all telecommunications data in Canada. Which means that ATM's, banks, the interac system(debit cards), and credit systems were intermittently down across the country until backups were online. Really though? By this afternoon, there haven't been any problems. This morning though? Yeah there were a lot of problems. Especially since a lot of people have shifted away from cash to plastic here in Canuck land.

Re:Is the internet in Canada 100% satellite?

[HFShadow]

No, there's absolutely no way this carries 40% of our telecom traffic. Maybe 40% of Northern Canada, but not 40% of Canada. Do you realize how much fiber there is near the border and how much data people push?

Re:Is the internet in Canada 100% satellite?

[Anonymous Coward]

While the general idea is true, your numbers are a little off. 0.000001% of our population (something like 32M) is 0.32 people and, as a whole person myself, I can say with a reasonable degree of certainty that there are more than that of us in the North. ;) I recall reading that something like 80% of Canada does live within 100km of the U.S. border, so the sentiment is correct.
    The division between the provinces and territories is 60N and the Northwest Territories has a population of something like 38 000. That said, that still works out to a population density of about 2.5 people per km^2, and even that's an inflated number as about half of us live in the capital, Yellowknife. Most of Yellowknife is still connected (although I'm down South at the moment, I received an e-mail from my friend there today) via wire to the nearest city, 1000 km away (Edmonton), but yeah, pretty much everyone else is screwed.

Re:Is the internet in Canada 100% satellite?

[Anonymous Coward]

Quick, somebody call them and tell them why their phones don't work. And email them to tell them why their Internet is down. Note: most of the area is South of Alaska. In Canada, they didn't think it wise for the rest of the country to so fully subsidize the far North, as the U.S. did.

As to the safety of pointing to the Sun, that's so the death rays don't reign down on the North Pole by mistake. ;-)

Re:Is the internet in Canada 100% satellite?

[Anonymous Coward]

This also carries Wildblue Satellite internet traffic for the CONUS.

Re:Is the internet in Canada 100% satellite?

[Anonymous Coward]

About 80% of Canadians live within 100 miles of the US border. Many 100,000+ cities are not near the border, including Calgary and Edmonton with a million each. 3 provinces (NS, PE, NL) are not near the US border, with about 1.5M souls collectively.

There are just over 100,000 people who live north of 60, in the 3 territories. This long distance and Internet outage affects only a portion that number, in the smaller communities.

More people in southern Canada face phone, power and Internet outages regularly after summer thunderstorms and winter snowstorms.

Re:Is the internet in Canada 100% satellite?

[P0ltergeist333]

Actually, there are thousands of Rural US consumers who get their internet through Anik F-2 (Wild Blue) I would bet there are as many (if not more) rural areas in Canada that have no access to even POTS.

Re:Is the internet in Canada 100% satellite?

[Anonymous Coward]

More than just Canda
All Wildblue customers which depend on the beam from ANIK F2 are also without service.
PS - Posting from dial-up, which all developers should try sometime...

Re:Is the internet in Canada 100% satellite?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because the other half are running away from man eating polar bears.

In conclusion, please don't bother coming here, Americans. Nothing to see here, move along...

Re:Is the internet in Canada 100% satellite?

[Anonymous Coward]

This only effects remote northern communities where fiber is unfeasible. It's around 60% of the area and much less than 1% of the population.

Those elitists!

I say: Let them go without Twitter!

Summary missed a few key words

[ColoradoAuthor]

Only those communities that are remote enough to depend solely on satellite are affected. FTA: "Northwestel said all communities across Nunavut, N.W.T. and Yukon that receive their long distance calling and data service via satellite are affected."

Re:Summary missed a few key words

[LWATCDR]

This could be really bad for some of the medical clinics. I could be wrong but I think I read somewhere that a good number of small clinics in that area depend on video conferencing so that staff can consult with doctors in larger clinics. Add in the need to call for medevac and other services and it could really cause some issues. I bet the Ham operators are busy right now.
Maybe the should keep a hot backup in orbit? Yes I know that would be expensive.

But Finally..

[Anonymous Coward]

... a decent Internet and Phone coverage for all those on vacation under the Sun. Oh wait..

Northern Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

Uhm, so that's what like 47 people?

Safety mode?

[Bucky24]

The satellite went into safety mode and moved from pointing to the earth to pointing to the sun.

Why on earth is this what it does when it goes into safety mode? How is that supposed to help the problem/prevent it from becoming worse?

Re:Safety mode?

[cdrudge]

From the article comments:
Note that the satellite is pointing in the wrong direction on purpose. This is standard procedure to prevent a malfunctioning satellite from interfering with other services.

Re:Safety mode?

[Bucky24]

Ahhh ok... Should have read TFA. Thanks.

Re:Safety mode?

[Ashenkase]

Because when a satellite is put into safe mode all non essential functions are disabled, which means no on station maneuvering. Putting the sat into a sunward facing orientation (for much of its orbit) ensures the satellite won't experience any problems due to lack of power. Having the satellite pointing sunward for long durations in its orbit ensure the batteries are juiced and comms can be ready and waiting for commands.

Re:Safety mode?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why on earth is this what it does when it goes into safety mode? How is that supposed to help the problem/prevent it from becoming worse?

I can make a few guesses. It might be that it is best to have it point in a well known direction, and the Sun is the easiest target to find. When trying to regain control over a satellite you'll need to be able to communicate with it, so you need to know where the antenna is pointing. Then I suppose you can relay the command through another satellite going between the target and the Sun. (There won't always be another satellite in that direction, but as they are all in an orbit around the Earth, occasionally there will be). Another possible reason is that they want to avoid the signal being sent to some undesired destination on Earth where it could interfere with other signals on the same frequency.

Re:Safety mode?

[kiwimate]

Safety for external functions. It isn't so much designed to help the satellite's problem as to prevent other services from being disrupted.

Re:Safety mode?

[Brett Buck]

Safety means safety for the life of the satellite, i.e. you give up on the mission and try to keep the satellite alive until someone can diagnose and fix the original problem.

If you lose attitude control (or lose track of your orientation) you need to orient the spacecraft to get power with no a priori knowledge of your orientation. At Geosyncrhonous altitude, the Earth is only 18.75 degrees wide, and it is surprisingly difficult to find by searching, and while you are searching, you likely have no power from the solar array - and are thus running down the batteries. Because the Sun is absurdly easy to find, it's fast to find it, and once you find the Sun, you can have power and thermal control. Then, you can have someone figure out what caused the original problem and fix it, and restore service.

Re:Safety mode?

[BJ_Covert_Action]

Most satellite safety modes involve pointing some primary axis at the Sun because it ensures solar power gets to at least part of the solar arrays while minimizing the liklihood that the communications fixtures would interfere with instruments on other satellite platforms. It's a good, "safe and minimally powered," mode to try to recover from.

Re:Safety mode?

[shoehornjob]

Well if it has solar panels (pretty good assumption) I'd say it's recharging.

Re:Safety mode?

[Deadplant]

blasphemy! *never* read TFA.

Re:Safety mode?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because it's a lot easier to write a failure sensor that safely points the thing to the big bright hot shiny thing (sun) than it is
the cold dark not shiny thing (earth). Then from there, you can point it back where it needs to go.

Re:Safety mode?

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you mean geostationary? I hear people get geosynchronous and geostationary confused all the time. I wrote this because I care about your performance.

Oh goodie!

[sgt scrub]

An opportunity to slander our norther neighbors without retribution. :)

Canadians can't play hockey! Canadian beer tastes like pee! Tree sap is not mothers milk!

hahahaha naner naner naner. :P

Re:Oh goodie!

[LikwidCirkel]

I'm in Canada and I received you loud and clear. Now brace yourself while I write letters to my local newspaper about how offended I am.

Re:Oh goodie!

[BenSchuarmer]

Most songs by the band Rush sound alike!

(phew, I've been wanting to get that off my chest for a long time)

Re:Oh goodie!

[Anonymous Coward]

Wait, there's more than one song by Rush?

Re:Oh goodie!

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Sticks and stones may break our bones, but our health care at least is free!

Re:Oh goodie!

[davegravy]

You see, it's the northern part of Canada (furthest from you) which has no internet. Between them and you is southern Canada, who happens to still have internet, as well as an overly-extreme pride for hockey and beer. Of course, I wouldn't expect an American to comprehend his relative geographical location :)

Re:Oh goodie!

[thatnerdguy]

Damnit, where are my mod points when I need them! Funniest comment I've read today!

Re:Oh goodie!

[spire3661]

If by free you mean paid for by every single citizen, sick or not, then yes its 'free'

Re:Oh goodie!

[Anonymous Coward]

If you listen to classic rock stations, you will learn that there is only one song by every band that ever existed.

Re:Oh goodie!

[Antisyzygy]

Don't you mean, ab-oot how offended you are?

Re:Oh goodie!

[Antisyzygy]

Because A) Canadians aren't as affected by the economic recession and B) They get immediate care. However, the US has the highest cost for health care in the entire world, and its not even the best health care in the entire world.

Re:Oh goodie!

[Antisyzygy]

Sounds fair to me considering here in the US we pay the highest premiums for healthcare in the entire world, and its not even good health care in comparison to many places. As such you better hope you don't get sick, get cancer, or any other ailment which may require medical care or the best medical care is outside your HMO. You'll be bankrupt in no time unless you happen to be wealthy.

Re:Oh goodie!

[Anonymous Coward]

At 10% the cost of the American system, for on-average superior service.

Suck it.

Re:Oh goodie!

[BJ_Covert_Action]

Meh, we yanks may die younger but we have hotter girls to fuck along the way. Suck it!

Re:Oh goodie!

[Anonymous Coward]

Stop being a hoser :P

Re:Oh goodie!

[Anonymous Coward]

Ahh, you're one of the ones who believe that only you should pay for you, and nothing else I see.

Yeah, I'd rather pay a minimal amount, automatically deducted from my paycheque. I quite enjoy being able to not have to hemorrage money if I say... step on a nail, get t-boned by some idiot blowing a stop sign or some other random thing comes up which requires me to be in a hospital.

At least I don't have to just try to survive say... an agonizingly painful abscess or something because my insurance company decided that I spontanously don't qualify for insurance.

Yeah, your system's been doing a bangup job for years now. The only thing you hear about the USA is how wonderful it is that people are paying reasonable amounts for insurance which cover everything under the sun, for anyone who's paid insurance. Nothing silly like paying $20 for a bandaid in a hospital or people dying because their insurance was declined or anything like that.

Thank you for your concern, but I think I'll stick with this clearly inferior, horrendous system we have going on here.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go to the emergency room, just for shits and giggles.

Re:Oh goodie!

[LWATCDR]

Man parts of Canada are just the beautiful but it is such a tragic county.
Canada could have had American know how, French culture, and British government.
Instead it got American culture, British know how, and French government.

Re:Oh goodie!

[Anonymous Coward]

Public health insurance is defiance of God's will when He decides to punish you with cancer for your sins!

Why do you hate Jesus?

Re:Oh goodie!

[spire3661]

I merely pointed out that it is not free and that the cost has been socialized. I made no commentary on the right or wrongness of this approach. I just wanted to make it clear that its not 'free', nothing more.

Re:Oh goodie!

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, wadyamean? Canadian strippers know how to rock the suspenders and plaid! Most (plenty) of them even shave!

Re:Oh goodie!

[Anonymous Coward]

Meh, we yanks may die younger but we have hotter girls to fuck along the way. Suck it!

You mean like these pictured here? http://freecodesource.com/people-of-walmart/Women-Of-Walmart/2/ No thanks, you can keep'em!!!

Re:Oh goodie!

[idontgno]

And by "we" you mean non-slashdotters, of course. Let's be realistic here. The only hot chicks we can get are at KFC, and those are deep-fried, and we are unfortunately smart enough to know they're lying when they talk about the number of herbs and spices they're using.

Being a geek is a sad and lonely life, and being a Yank isn't much compensation.

Re:Oh goodie!

[Anonymous Coward]

Everyone needs it sometime, it's worth the cost.

Re:Oh goodie!

[sjames]

The sad thing is it's still cheaper than in the U.S. and you never get the awkward experiance of trying to fill out insurance forms in the hallway without bleeding all over them.

Re:Oh goodie!

[Anonymous Coward]

It's only free in Alberta. The "cha-ching" province.

Re:Oh goodie!

[sgt scrub]

LOL

Re:Oh goodie!

[LWATCDR]

Oh do not get me started on fun with the Canadian government. The government of Canada stopped an update disk we where sending to a customer because it didn't have a value listed. The update was free with support so we put the value as zero. You see the wanted to be sure that the organization getting the disk paid the import tax on it. I told them that it was free and that the disk was worth maybe 5 cents. That still wasn't good enough so they refused to deliver the disk.
The thing is that the organization that was getting the disk was... The Canadian government!
This was pre internet so we set up a BBS just for them to download updates.

attitude control issue?

[Anonymous Coward]

it'll point wherever it bloody wants to point.

Northern Canada != Canada

[mclearn]

Remember, Canada is a big place. 75% of all Canadians live within 90 miles of the US border. So keep this in mind while you read all of the comments saying what a calamity this is for Canadians. Northern Canada -- and I say this as a Canadian, though some may disagree (like we disagree about what it means to be in Eastern Canada or Western Canada) -- generally are those who live above 55-60 degrees N which is an exceptionally small percentage of the total population.

Re:Northern Canada != Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

It bugs me the way that statistic is always expressed. Rather than we Canadians living near the border for some political or aspirational reason, the fact is southern Canada is closer to the equator and therefore has better climate. Same reason Linus cites for moving from Finland to the US.

Re:Northern Canada != Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

Edmonton is only one major Canadian city further north than London, UK.

Re:Northern Canada != Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

That is completely false. Edmonton is not a major city.

Re:Northern Canada != Canada

[anethema]

Ya. While it is not THAT important, all of shaw direct (old starchoice) HDTV is on this bird pretty much. Worse than that, the feed that authorizes all the cable tv boxes (Called the out of band signal) is also on this bird.

Every remote mining operation pretty much etc use this for outside communications. Even in south Canada.

Well that explains...

[kamikaze2112]

...Why I can't get any HD Channels on my Shaw Direct (used to be Star Choice) Satellite TV. According to Wikipedia, Anik F2 carries French programming and HDTV Channels. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaw_Direct.
I wonder how long something like this takes to get sorted out?

WOW bad headling and BAD summary

[BagOBones]

Should probably read....
Remote communities in Canada's far north without internet.

Any major populated area connected by land line will not be impacted... In fact I would argue that nothing larger than a "Town" is likely impacted impacted.

Re:WOW bad headling and BAD summary

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah and who gives a flying fluck about *those* ppl?!

Re:WOW bad headling and BAD summary

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget that this satellite carries more than mere consumer phone lines and Internet signal. Air Traffic Control relies heavily on that link to communicate with trans-atlantic flights who pass over canada's north and this failure will essentially close a big chunk of airspace

From Nav Canada web site :
CYHQ DUE RADAR AND COM FAILURE IN MONTREAL, EDMONTON AND
GANDER AIRSPACE, WESTBOUND FLT FLT PLANNING N OF A LINE 59N 50W
DIRECT TEALS CAN EXP REROUTING N OR S OF THE PUBLISHED NAT OTS.
1110061150 TIL APRX 1110062359

Re:WOW bad headling and BAD summary

[Anonymous Coward]

okay, if by town you mean population of 20,000 or less, like yellowknife.
otherwise you should expect a sharply worded letter to the local blogs aboot you.
and next time leave out the slurs about us being 'remote'. we're just passive.

Rogue Satellite

[davegravy]

Anik F2 satellite experienced an attitude control issue

Great, so now we have self-aware machines with personality disorders orbiting us? Who's gonna capitalize on the budding satellite anger-management industry?

Re:Rogue Satellite

[Anonymous Coward]

momma always said I need to have a good attitude.

Re:Rogue Satellite

[Anonymous Coward]

MPU sad? (read: empew)

Re:Rogue Satellite

[PPH]

Sort of like Bomb #20 in Dark Star.

A loss of communications...

[waterford0069]

OB,

A loss of communications can mean only one thing. Invasion!

Didn't know they had electricity in Canada..

[Anonymous Coward]

I didn't kn0w they had electricity in Canada let alone access to the internet!

Re:Didn't know they had electricity in Canada..

[Monchanger]

They use penguins on hamster wheels. Tell your friends- they'll be impressed by how smart you are.

Single point of failure?

[QuietLagoon]

Who designed that comm system?

Re:Single point of failure?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would you invest in more than a single point (so another satelite) when the population is arguably minimal? You would never recoup the investment.

Are you in technology per chance? ;)

Re:Single point of failure?

[Commontwist]

Given the remote locations that a lot of small aircraft pass over I'd desire a little redundancy in cases of emergency like, say, a plane crashing in the wilderness or even someone lost.

No satellite, no coordination to locate said craft or survivors. What happens in the case of a solar flare being just powerful enough to really knock it out?

Oops, sorry?

Well, maybe if Canada loses an MP or Prime Minister this way they might get the hint.

Re:Single point of failure?

[Monchanger]

A dedicated satellite isn't "a little redundancy". Reasonable levels of redundancy are already built into the satellite still up there awaiting repairs, as well as built into planes being flown across barren territory.

The possibility of it having a chance to save a single life will never justify that kind of expense. Even if you knew an MP would certainly lose their life, few wouldn't balk at the half billion dollar price tag of saving them. With that kind of money you can have a 100% certainty to save numerous lives.

Re:Single point of failure?

[Anonymous Coward]

Seems smart and efficient to me. A (relative) handful of people, you wouldn't want to put up two sats. If you are talking about how it handles malfunctions, it is so it doesn't interfere with other services since it could be pointing in ANY direction... so it points away to be sure.

Oh... and "not me" to your question. If you think you can do better though, by all means, have at.

Re:Single point of failure?

[Commontwist]

Which is why cheaper space travel really needs to be developed not to mention cleaning up the junk already up there by those who think getting rid of it is too expensive.

Well, when it starts blowing up satellites I think that will be even more expensive. Ah well.

Re:Single point of failure?

[petermgreen]

Afaict this sattelite is used for fixed services. Satphones on irridium should still work fine.

Northwestel data map

[Joe_Dragon]

http://www.nwtel.ca/media/images/operating_map_full.jpg

Re:Northwestel data map

[cdrudge]

So that's like what, 100 people or so?

Re:Northwestel data map

[Anonymous Coward]

Just keep in mind that the map shows areas that are serviced by the satellite, not area's that are exclusively covered by it.

Re:Northwestel data map

[Reservoir Penguin]

Destruction Bay, really?

Re:Northwestel data map

[Fnordulicious]

It’s a little bay on Kluane Lake. It’s named that because they lost so much equipment there while building the Alcan (Alaskan) Highway. There’s not much there. The nearby village of Burwash has a gas station, restaurant, and hotel, and that’s about it. There are a number of Athabaskans (Northern Tutchone I think, or maybe the northernmost Southern Tutchone) living around there, as well as a few white folks. It’s a beautiful place in the summer, but it’s ferociously cold and windy in the winter. Good hunting in the area, and I guess that’s why the Athabaskans stuck around.

Re:Northwestel data map

[defiantredpill]

Thousands of people affected!!! http://www.canada.com/Commercial+satellite+malfunction+leaves+thousands+offline/5513305/story.html

Re:Northwestel data map

[green1]

according to that map the entire territory of Nunavut is completely reliant on satellite, that's 33,000 people right there. looks like about half the Northwest Territories too, so that's another few thousand.

Re:Northwestel data map

[Anonymous Coward]

I use Northwestel, and I'm surprised they actually took the time to address any issues with their service. Even if it works, you're lucky to get dial-up speeds or a steady connection for more than twenty minutes with their satellite service.

All hail their glorious communications monopoly, the infrastructure purchased from the government for next to nothing.

Attitude adjustment

[Frenzied Apathy]

experienced an attitude control issue

Well, maybe if someone went up there and gave it an attitude adjustment, then they'd get their Internet back! :P

That's what radio is for.

[couchslug]

If you want reliable backup comms in the wilderness you use radio.

The reliance on phones and internet is convenient, but if you can afford those you can afford radio gear and spend some time learning how to use it.

Amateur radio operators were the original nerds long before computers existed.

http://www.rac.ca/

http://www.arrl.org/

Re:That's what radio is for.

[Antisyzygy]

How the hell can you get porn over the radio?

Re:That's what radio is for.

[BJ_Covert_Action]

I would wager that most of the folks living in rural Canada do, in fact, own and operate radios as both a hobby and as an emergency backup. I know radios are very popular in rural areas in the States. I would be surprised if any of the folks roughing it in the Canadian wilderness did not have some sort of radio gear that they know how to use.

Re:That's what radio is for.

[Clsid]

I would just use a second satellite as a backup. It is still radio you know. Besides, what better place to place an antenna in than in space?

Re:That's what radio is for.

[Anonymous Coward]

Packet radio, now get off my lawn

Re:That's what radio is for.

[geekoid]

porn isn't just pictures.

And it's a HAM, so porn means more glowing tubes.

Re:That's what radio is for.

[Anonymous Coward]

What would all those people in the area affected do without their welfare checks, TV, booze and internet, especially in the winter months, right around the corner.

Re:That's what radio is for.

[Antisyzygy]

I don't think vacuum tubes can handle a "load" being baked slowly onto their connections. The average keyboard of an internet-era male is crusted over with mass quantities of semen.

Re:That's what radio is for.

[Anonymous Coward]

This also affects homes and businesses, not just people out in the bush. There has been no internet service for the hotel I work at, and the guests couldn't give a damn as to why, they just want internet.

I do know some people with radios and sat phones that they use only when they're on the land. Hell, with a good RFS you can hit the quarry from town with line of sight, though now that we have a cell tower people don;t use them too much.

So it went from F2 to FU2?

[Ardx]

nt.

Shaw Broadcast Services uses Anik F2 so cable

[Joe_Dragon]

Shaw Broadcast Services uses Anik F2 so cable customs tv may be missing out out on channels and maybe US NHL CENTER ICE customs will not be able to get games on Canada channels.

Shaw Direct

[Anonymous Coward]

Anik F1 and Anik F2 provide television services for Shaw Direct throughout Canada on the Ku band. Might be more than just Internet and telephony interrupted in the north.

http://www.satbeams.com/footprints?beam=5619

Oh god, the inhumanity!

[Anonymous Coward]

Did they at least know Steve Jobs died?! Please tell me they found out!

Internet dies and suddenly it's back to the stone ages.

I wondered why everything seemed better today...

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess it was those damn Canadians this whole time.

Canada should use the Australian Outback solution

[bobs666]

Go read this page about how "The humble old rooftop TV aerial could bring superfast Internet to even the most remote shack in the Australian Outback and help solve the problem of how to connect isolated communities across the globe."

Rogers Sports net SD / HD / NHL HD feeds are on F2

[Joe_Dragon]

http://www.shawbroadcast.ca/docs/signal_lists/hd_signal_list_transport_oct11_e.pdf

The NHL is big in Canada so like the feeds will have to move and other channels may get kicked off air.

I know that iN DEMAND uses shaw broadcast to get the feeds for the CBC, TSN, rogers sports net games.

900,000 subscribers affected..

[Destoo]

Also note that Shaw Direct (Formerly Starchoice) uses Annik K2 for half of its channels.

As of 2010, Shaw Direct had over 900,000 subscribers.[1] It broadcasts on Ku band from two communications satellites, Anik F1R at 107.3W and Anik F2 at 111.1W

People really hope they have a solution before the first game of the season, which is tonight. They will lose many subscribers due to this, no doubt about it.

We need confirmation

[Anonymous Coward]

Can anyone in Canada who's affected let us know what's happening?

Summary is somewhat incorrect

[Anonymous Coward]

The summary says the satellite is now pointed towards the sun. According to the linked article, the satellite is pointing away from the Earth (which is not the same as pointing at the sun). "Sun pointing" seems a lot more complicated then just turning away from the Earth.

Not just the Far north of Canada.

[Anonymous Coward]

I work at a Hospital in the GTA area. All of our pagers have stopped working.

Yes. Dr's & security still use pagers.

Captha: Voices

More a boat Canadian raising

[tepples]

It's closer to "a boat" than "a boot" if the articles about Canadian raising on Wikipedia and TV Tropes are to be believed.

Took out HD channels for ShawDirect.ca as well

[Anonymous Coward]

I woke up to no TV this morning wondering if I paid the bill. You would think and event such as this would be more widely talked about.

it takes time to point to a other satelite and the

[Joe_Dragon]

it takes time to point to a other satellite and then you have reconfigure all the radios to the TP's on a differnt satellite.

Canada has lot's of hills and Mountains that get i

[Joe_Dragon]

Canada has lot's of hills and Mountains that get it the way.

Spin control

[tepples]

Rocket science: "attitude"
Plain English: "which way it's pointing"

Rocket science: "Anik F2 satellite experienced an attitude control issue"
Plain English: "Anik F2 satellite started spinning out of control"

Re:Spin control

[mandelbr0t]

I believe the response to your comment is "Whoosh!"

With...

[xded]

A packet radio network. Forget about streaming videos tho...

Google

[Anonymous Coward]

Type "received" into Google. It breaks.

US Center Ice subscribers may miss out on games

[Joe_Dragon]

From Canadian tv channels.

right now no
Sportsnet Vancouver Canucks SD
Sportsnet Senators SD
CBC Charlottetown SD
CBC Regina SD

CBC Toronto HD
WGN HD (Canadian feed same as WGN 9 OTA)

All Rogers sports NET HD but Sports net east HD.

Rogers Sports net one HD

TSN 1 HD
TSN 2 HD

other as well.

Network statistics ...

[MacTO]

If you want to see what living with satellite communications is like, KNet has some detailed statistics and news:

http://tech.knet.on.ca/

It looks like they use a different satellite, but the News section discusses the sorts of things that affect service and if you scroll down the list you'll find traffic data for communities served by satellite.

Outages are common, and can be caused by anything from the town's electrical generators going down to the nature of the satellite's orbit.

Re:Network statistics ...

[Strider-]

Outages are common, and can be caused by anything from the town's electrical generators going down to the nature of the satellite's orbit.

The one that everyone forgets about is the twice-yearly series of sun outages. For about a week, some time close to each of the equinoxes, the geometry works out such that the sun passes directly behind the satellite (from the point of view of a dish on the ground). The sun, of course, being a giant nuclear reactor in the sky, produces a hell of a lot of RF energy, and easily drowns out the satellite it's passing behind.

A few years ago, I had a maritime tracking antenna up and going, and when the sun outage happened, it decided that the sun was a much juicier target than the satellite, and merrily tracked it for several hours until someone finally reset it.

Re:Network statistics ...

[geekoid]

You going to have to provide a citation. Because why would slight off not impede transmission but 'directly behind' cause an outage?

Re:Network statistics ...

[MacTO]

Satellite dishes are very directional. So they can distinguish between two signals that appear very close, even if one is significantly stronger.

Look up antenna patterns if you're interested.

Re:Network statistics ...

[Kalriath]

There are many citations, quit being lazy. We get reminded of this event, called "Sun Fade", twice a year by our satellite TV provider in the channel guide magazine. The reason why directly behind causes an issue but slightly to the side doesn't is that the dish (or more specifically, the LNB) is pointed directly at the satellite, and has a very narrow angle from which it can pick up a signal. "Slightly off" is actually outside the targeted area of the LNB.

I predict a mini population spike in 9 months

[FlyingGuy]

Much like the ones that have occurred in major blackouts. Can't watch porn on the internet then hell lets do the real thing!

Re:I predict a mini population spike in 9 months

[dkleinsc]

No, it's not a big risk. See, as the Arrogant Worms explains when introducing the Mounted Animal Nature Trail, there's only 1 girl per 30 guys in that area (she's really popular, that's for sure). So no real risk of a baby boom.

BIG impact to a LOT of people

[Anonymous Coward]

From Nav Canada's website

CYHQ DUE RADAR AND COM FAILURE IN MONTREAL, EDMONTON AND
GANDER AIRSPACE, WESTBOUND FLT FLT PLANNING N OF A LINE 59N 50W
DIRECT TEALS CAN EXP REROUTING N OR S OF THE PUBLISHED NAT OTS.
1110061150 TIL APRX 1110062359

This will be a big impact since it effectively means a big chunk of airspace used by a lot of trans atlantic flight will be closed since that satellite link is used to link remote radio stations and radar to the controllers.

Shaw Direct is gonna be hurtin'

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm with Shaw Direct. I guess this explains why I wasn't getting CNN-HD this morning; but I was getting CNN in standard def.

This is really going to hurt Shaw this evening with the start of the NHL season and the provincial election in Ontario and channels not being available. I was looking forward to watching Sun TV News have meltdown when McGuinty gets another majority.
   

im ... l...osing... inter...net... NOT!

[Anonymous Coward]

well i still got internet, see i posted a comment. No worries. *From Montreal

Head to the light

[kfsone]

Wait - I should write that in French so we only lose the bad kind of Canadian.

Re:Don't worry, they're Canadians, eh.

[Anonymous Coward]

So they will politely and patiently wait out the problem, eh.

--Fixed that for you, eh.

Re:"Attitude Control Issue"

[Anonymous Coward]

"experienced an attitude control issue": very funny typo, I first thought the satellite said something like "I'm sick and tired of your traffic, I need a break" :)

Duhhh

[Anonymous Coward]

So they decided the best way to implement access to a network whose sole and fundamental purpose was to provide redundancy to resist the loss of network nodes was to route everything through one node? Um.

BLAME CANADA!

[Anonymous Coward]

Blame Canada, Blame Canada
with all their Hockey hallabaloo, and that bitch Anne Murray too
Blame Canada, Blame Canada
all I can say is oy Gevalt, it's Canada's Fault

Re:"Attitude Control Issue"

[Penguinisto]

It's not a typo
(see def. #3)

Re:it takes time to point to a other satelite and

[Strider-]

you also have to have people on the ground capable of doing this. I supply internet access to 17 remote communities through F2, and there's no way in hell anyone on the ground in these communities would be able to successfully repoint the satellite dish. We just have to wait for Telesat to get things back up and running. The current estimate is 1700 Pacific time.

"worlds" are about communism, not economic devel

[SuperBanana]

Northern Canada is not really a first-world region. It's mostly empty, frozen land and remote communities of native people living pretty basic lifestyles. Not much in common with the cities in the South.

Given that Canada is an ally of the United States- no, they are a first-world country. Have been since the Cold War, which is where the term came from.

See, bet you thought "third world" meant something like "really poor", and didn't know that "first world" equals "with us", second world equals "with the commies", and "third world" equals "not allied with either."

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Third_World

What about Wildeblah...er...Wildblue?

[equivocal]

Almost half of WB's Ka beams are on Anik-F2. They should also be out unless "out of control" has a some very subtle nuances. Maybe CBC doesn't report on anything south of the border.

Re:What about Wildeblah...er...Wildblue?

[dilbert627]

They are: http://wildblueworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4832

Wrong

[geekoid]

People do understand the basic concept. You, however, do not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right

Re:Wrong

[roman_mir]

yeah, dumb ass, maybe you should read that actually. It does specify that so called 'positive rights' are entitlements.

However wikipedia is a political system of its own with some above others deciding what goes there and what does not. What do I care about priests deciding what things are? There are HUNDREDS of REVISIONS on that page, multiple revisions, where people are doing politics, and the 'ruling class' there consists of local priests with moderation power.

That's not a place to get impartial information on things like rights, that the last place. The place to get information is introspection. A thought, a rational argument.

You never have that, so I understand why you want somebody else to tell you what things are. Go ask somebody else, they'll tell you everything you need to know.

Re:Wrong

[NeutronCowboy]

Oh.... now I understand why you went and quoted me a sentence from a wikipedia entry during a discussion we had. It's because you don't have a thought, a rational argument, and you need to have somebody else tell you what things are.

Re:Wrong

[roman_mir]

What would that be? I do give quotes from wikipedia of-course, especially when it concerns historic and scientific facts. Those can also be influenced somewhat, but not nearly as much as an abstract political concept. History - that's the stuff that happened. You can interpret it, but actual facts, they are there.

You wouldn't know the difference, that's because you are neutron of some sort, they don't know any better.

Re:Canada has lot's of hills and Mountains that ge

[PPH]

We can fix that little problem.

Not Just The Frozen North

[Anonymous Coward]

Despite all the cute comments about how few people were affected... the outage wiped out service for a whole class of internet users in Canada. We live in Eastern Ontario and found our service out this morning. The vendor has been nice enough to have silicone sally call us every few hours to reassure us that the technology vendor is working on the problem. Fortunately, this was our backup service to the much faster but frequently unreliable wireless from a local provider. We just use the two diverse services in a failover/loadbalancing configuration. I have been amused to note that the couple of major CMEs and geomagnetic storms we have experienced over the last week or so have been ignored by the various pundits. It has been a few years since another one of these birds got fried by a CME direct hit. Hopefully, no one will die as a result of the communications screwup. But somehow I don't expect anything to be learned from the experience.

Oil platforms affected as well

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.cnlopb.nl.ca/ib_oct062011.shtml

Oil platforms on the Grand Banks of Newfoundland were also affected.

Lucky Canucks

[Anonymous Coward]

Lucky people.

Nevermind the Inuit!

[madhi19]

This thing almost messed up the first NHL game of the season broadcast. And we got TV problem for more than a Day! I demand a Royal Commission to determine what caused this infamy! lolll