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Is Apple Pushing Away Professionals?

Barence writes "Is Apple turning its back on professional users to focus on consumers? That's the argument in this article, which claims Apple is alienating the creative professionals who have supported the company for 20 years or more. Fury over the dumbing down of Final Cut Pro, Apple's refusal to sell non-glossy screens and poor value hardware is fueling anger from professional Mac users. 'People will get hacked off. I'm only Apple because I want the OS, but if I could come up with a 'Hackintosh' with OS X, I'd be so happy,' claims one audio professional."

556 comments

  1. Define professionals? by Keruo · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I dont think engineers and such have ever been target customers for Apple.
    But if you mean image/video field workers as professionals, then you probably are right.
    Apple product lines are just following the industry trend of consumerism and becoming more targeted for home users, rather than enterprises(for which they never were targetting to begin with).

    --
    There are no atheists when recovering from tape backup.
    1. Re:Define professionals? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

      I dont think engineers and such have ever been target customers for Apple.

      But if you mean image/video field workers as professionals, then you probably are right.

      Apple product lines are just following the industry trend of consumerism and becoming more targeted for home users, rather than enterprises(for which they never were targetting to begin with).

      Read the whole post... It even says "creative professionals"

    2. Re:Define professionals? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In the world of Apple the apparent definition of professional is someone who "liked Apple before it was cool." Now they are just ticked off by the whole "consumer" and "enthusiastic" aspects of using Apple products.

    3. Re:Define professionals? by Richard_at_work · · Score: 0

      Agreed with the "define professionals" - its a hugely broad group to be tarring with the same brush stroke.

      I'm a professional, I love my MBP with its glossy screen - I'm a developer - and I have no issues with it. I sit in front of it for most of the day, in either Windows 7 for .Net, or in OSX for IOS development and its a great bit of kit to use.

      Yesterday, while picking up my iPhone4S, the Apple bloke dealing with me asked me some chatty questions and realised I was a professional - so he took me straight over to their Business Development peeps to talk a load of things over with an eye to improving my business relationship with Apple.

      So it really depends on what you mean by "professionals" - people buying Apple kit to make money on the Apple platform, or people buying Apple kit to make money through the Apple platform? Because for one of those two options, they seem to be quite willing to help.

    4. Re:Define professionals? by telekon · · Score: 0

      I'm a software developer, and I primarily use OS X. RailsConf this year was virtually a sea of identical 15" MacBook Pros. I also use Linux, of course, and primarily deploy on Linux servers, but OS X (pre-Lion) has been a great dev environment. When you add in the fact that mobile development generally requires targeting iOS, which absolutely requires XCode....

      My boss upgraded to Lion, and I used it for about two minutes before deciding to stick with Snow Leopard for the foreseeable future. Lion feels like a toy. It's almost like the OS needs to go in two directions, if they want to pursue this iOS-on-the-desktop feel, and do something (but better) like when they offered A/UX as a marginally-compatible alternative to Mac OS.

      --

      To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion.

    5. Re:Define professionals? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As for video professionals, it's true, there's a tendency to prefer Macs (I do too!), but as long as Mac allows other people to write good software, I don't see the big issue -- there is an alternative to Final Cut Pro, it's called Avid. Available for both PC and Mac and the files and data can move between the two platforms almost seamlessly. Stil, it was a strange decision to gut all the Pro out of FCP. Hardly seems believable that they couldn't keep some key features, or at least continue to support the older, pro, version.

      Of course, one does worry -- as I do -- that Mac will change or lock-down their OS to a degree for which professional software can no longer be developed for it. If Lion evolves into a big iPhone I suppose I will start working on Windows.

    6. Re:Define professionals? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      My boss upgraded to Lion, and I used it for about two minutes before deciding to stick with Snow Leopard for the foreseeable future. Lion feels like a toy.

      Care you elaborate? Lion still has all of the same stuff as Snow Leopard. It also improves things like Time Machine and File Vault. The POSIX stuff is still there. If you do Objective-C development, then automatic reference counting with weak references is a huge improvement. The gesture interfaces are nicer, and the full-screen mode is great when you want to work in a terminal without distractions. The sandboxing stuff in the kernel is also massively improved, and a lot of the standard programs use it out of the box, so from a security standpoint 10.7 is a lot better (although I prefer the Capsicum stuff in FreeBSD 9).

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    7. Re:Define professionals? by countertrolling · · Score: 1

      "Following" the industry? They took the Sony Walkman and portable phones to the next level. The profits from the pro market don't even compare. They're figuring, ' why bother?' The pros can use Cubase, Avid, and Autocad on their PCs. Apple is making billions on electronic trinkets.

      --
      For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    8. Re:Define professionals? by scubamage · · Score: 1

      Well, to be honest the sole argument for using macs in the first place was that their processors tended to be extremely well suited towards handling graphics intensive operations, wasn't it? That benefit would have disappeared when they moved from their power- and g- series processors over to the intel based systems. Or am I wrong? Not really an apple fanboi, I prefer using actual BSD.

    9. Re:Define professionals? by MrCrassic · · Score: 2

      I don't think Apple has been "turning away" from them. They had a definite and seemingly infallible edge when Photoshop and Illustrator were created and released for MacOS years ago; the PC was long behind them in this department, so those weren't really an option.

      Today, aesthetic quirks aside, the only difference between a Macbook and a PC laptop is the Macbook's ability to natively run OS X. Both of the aforementioned titles are available (and widely used) on Windows without limitations. Worse, Windows has many more titles and options available than the Mac does because there are many more Windows developers out there than OS X developers. (I wouldn't say that Windows is any easier to develop for than OS X, but Visual Studio is really, really nice.) On the other hand, many people find Macbooks to be extremely pretty (because they are) and OS X to be easier to use and more secure, though we all know the "bad guys" are slowly chipping away at the latter advantage. We all know that Macbook, iPhone, iPad and a Starbucks Grande-size Latte are the holy trinity in being "cool;" the PC is not a good substitute for this.

      Apple has, and hopefully always be, about making profit by catering to the consumer. Let's not get deluded about that.

    10. Re:Define professionals? by Osgeld · · Score: 0

      You have to keep in mind Apple today is only about the cult like following and making the other person want that product for reasons unknown, if people start looking at alternatives their mind might open and you erode that marketing.

    11. Re:Define professionals? by Cryacin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Apple used to be cool when they were creative, and encouraged creativity. It was you and Apple fighting the battle against entropy.

      Ever since the iLine, and Steve Jobs turning from a benevolent genius to a narcissistic, goose stepping lunatic, the scene has changed to apple being creative, and you can too, just as long as you're creative in the "Apple" sanctioned way.

      When it comes to the iSheep, (read as the great unwashed, non-technological masses), taht's exactly what they want. They want to be "creative" by proxy. They get to taste genius, and all they ahve to do is spend daddy's money.

      Unfotunately, the creative types don't need restrictions. Yeah sure, being creative with IBM used to be like trudging through the mud, and at the time comparatively, using MacOS would feel like ice skating in comparison. But now, you MUST do what Apple says, or you're toast. Dumbing down of interfaces to conform to the masses is merely one facet of it. The uberban of Flash is another. And by the way, think what you like about flash, but the bottom line is that you're having your technology choices dictated to by a company.

      For all these reasons, I have left apple. I refuse to buy an Apple product anymore because I am smart enough to make my own choices, and unfortunately, the solid brick that is Apple is *almost* what I want, but since I can't customise it at all, it is *entirely* not what I need.

      Good luck with the mass market Apple, but I am not the only professional who's sick and tired of being corralled into your line. The bitten apple used to be a sign of the rebels; A homage to the greatest rebel Computer Scientist in history, Alan Turing, who had cracked the enigma codes through the sheer might of his intellect, who was then crushed by the same English government he had saved, as unfortunately he was gay. Being faced with the choice of imprisonment or chemical castration, he chose the third route of committing suicide. As he adored the fable of Snow White, he dipped an apple in poison, and took a bite.

      THIS was once the spirit of Apple Inc. Shame on you for losing your way.

      --
      Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
    12. Re:Define professionals? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Exactly. Pros are a tiny minority of their customers.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    13. Re:Define professionals? by binary+paladin · · Score: 1

      He has no reason. Anyone who has read the Ars Technica overview of the OS or isn't just trying to be a hipster knows that. I can see some people not liking the interface changes but he's a snob that thinks that because the OS has inherited some visual features from iOS that it feels like a toy. Making the decision after "two minutes" is a joke.

      Although I will say, in my experience, Snow Leopard was the most stable version of OS X I have ever used and I installed it the day it came out. It was rock solid out of the gate and on top of that Mail was FINALLY stable. Lion? Not so much on either count. Although, being used to some of the changes I wouldn't go back.

    14. Re:Define professionals? by Truekaiser · · Score: 1

      correct, the power chips they used before had extensions that did tend to give it a slight edge over x86 in encoding and photoshop tasks. they could not lean on this though when jobs on high dictated the move to intel, from then on the marketing point was not to favor content creation but the user experience, 'our machines provide a better top down user experience from the other laptops and desktops'. but that argument has always been rather flimsy to non-existent to those with at least a decent amount of technical knowledge. since those people know that the 1k mac book and that 300-500 dollar intel based acer, or hp, or e-machine share the same intel cpu, foxconn motherboard, ram brand and hard drive. all your paying for is casing, logo, and os, even then your looking at paying the highest vendor markup cost in the computer industry next to monster cables.

    15. Re:Define professionals? by mspohr · · Score: 1

      I recently switched to Mac from Linux (primarily for the nice hardware) but am having trouble getting used to OS X and the odd keyboard. How do you program on it? I find the keyboard lacks a few crucial keys (a real delete key, pgup/pgdn) and odd use of other keys (the command - flower power key - seems to do most of what the ctrl key does on Linux but there are oddities). Also, on dual monitors, having the menu at the top of the primary monitor only is driving me crazy. I've looked at various patches to "fix" this problem but most seem to have problems of flakiness and inconsistent operation. This UI is straight from 1984 and badly needs updating. It really does make sense with large multiple monitor setups to attach the menu to the window and not have to go searching for it across acres of screen real estate.

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    16. Re:Define professionals? by timeOday · · Score: 1

      Whoo, I haven't heard the AltiVec vs MMX argument in a long time. I'm sure AltiVec was better, but that was swamped by numerous other factors years ago. Today GPUs are a similar idea on a much bigger scale.

    17. Re:Define professionals? by John_Booty · · Score: 1

      that argument has always been rather flimsy to non-existent to those with at least a decent amount of technical knowledge.

      That argument is not flimsy for professionals that have "a decent amount of technical knowledge" but value their time. I have assembled, tweaked, and overclocked many PCs but for the last few years I've grown to prefer Macs more and more.

      The "Apple premium" is pretty affordable when you compare it to the cost of several days of downtime over the course of 3 years of computer ownership, and it shrinks even further when you consider that Macs fetch a premium price on the used market and you are able to recoup some of the "Apple premium" when it's time to sell.

      --

      OtakuBooty.com: Smart, funny, sexy nerds.
    18. Re:Define professionals? by BoRegardless · · Score: 1

      I am a design engineer/innovator who uses Apple hardware & I attempt to "do it all".

      I don't limit myself, so I run XP, Win7 in VM and Boot Camp (W7) along with Mac OSX, so I can take on whatever tasks, like my W7 only 3D CAD, whenever and for whatever work reason I need to operate in at the moment.

    19. Re:Define professionals? by AngryDeuce · · Score: 4, Insightful

      THIS was once the spirit of Apple Inc. Shame on you for losing your way.

      Reminds me what Jason Newsted said, when asked for his response to people saying Metallica had sold out: "Yeah we sold out. We sold out every arena we played for the last five years."

      Until the general public stops eating up every single thing they produce, it will never change. They make far too much money to give half a crap about the loyal customers that kept them viable before the iCrap era. They'd rather you just shut up and keep buying those iPhones/iPads. It's sad, but true.

    20. Re:Define professionals? by mbkennel · · Score: 2

      "1k mac book and that 300-500 dollar intel based acer, or hp, or e-machine share the same intel cpu, foxconn motherboard, ram brand and hard drive. all your paying for is casing, logo, and os, "

      and greater testing and hardware integration and better heat and power management and the magnetic cable attachment and walk-up service centers in most major cities. And nobody else really has something as good as the Air --- because it requires expensive physical mechanical and thermal design and custom parts. As you move from the 1990's technology of interchangable taiwanese parts with little integration costs, the value of Apple's more expensive engineering can be more apparent.

      In audiophile equipment, it's well known that a large cost is the fancy machined aluminium case. It's actually worth something.

    21. Re:Define professionals? by Belial6 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That is the funny thing about Apple. I got a Mac to try out some iOS development, and was truly suprised at just how bad the UI was. Macs were supposed to be good at UI, and it turns out that they are pretty darn bad at it. Yet the Apple fans keep instisting that "I'm holding it wrong". I agree, and have stated myself many times, that the single menu at the top made perfectly fine sense when we were running on a single 640 x480 screen. Back then, pixels were precious. Today it is just bad UI.

      The fact that the X button sometimes closes the application, and sometimes leaves the application running without a UI is also bad. The green + shrinking the screen is a poor UI choice. The list goes on and on.

      It is just strange that the UI gets held up as Apples triumph, when the UI is sub par and the good parts of a OSX are under the hood.

    22. Re:Define professionals? by Drencrom · · Score: 1

      We all know that Macbook, iPhone, iPad and a Starbucks Grande-size Latte are the holy trinity in being "cool

      I guess there is something unholy on that trinity of four :)

    23. Re:Define professionals? by theedgeofoblivious · · Score: 1

      You can use a "Windows" keyboard with a Mac. Your old keyboard would work just fine. If you're using a MacBook or wireless keyboard you can hit fn delete. The wired keyboards also come with a forward delete button, page up and page down.

      As for the menus being tied to the window, having them against the edge of the screen means that they're an infinite target that can't be overshot; to aim for something along the edge of the screen you only have to aim in one dimension(horizontally). With Windows, KDE or GNOME, users have to aim both vertically and horizontally to hit any menu. It takes less time to shoot the mouse to the top of the screen and aim left-right than it does to 1. Find the menus(since their position on the screen isn't static you actually have to locate the menu bar every time), 2. Find the proper menu, 3, move your mouse to it(especially without overshooting it). It's also easy to look at the top left corner of the screen and immediately identify the active program. And having only one menu bar saves screen real estate by saving the pixels that would have been used in a menu bar for every open window. As I'm arguing for the menus at the top I am looking at the 27" screen and the 26" screen sitting next to it on my desk.

    24. Re:Define professionals? by flappinbooger · · Score: 2

      I dont think engineers and such have ever been target customers for Apple. But if you mean image/video field workers as professionals, then you probably are right. Apple product lines are just following the industry trend of consumerism and becoming more targeted for home users, rather than enterprises(for which they never were targetting to begin with).

      The only "professional" I've ever associated with Apple products was in the image/video arena. Used to be, if you were "serious" about making a living doing graphical and video work you had an apple workstation and used photoshop and final cut.

      So, is Apple pushing them away? Maybe. I think TFA might be a little flamebait-ish tho. Apple has made some decisions that might be pushing away the pros, but I don't think their decision was to push away the pros. Follow what I'm sayin?

      --
      Flappinbooger isn't my real name
    25. Re:Define professionals? by Weedhopper · · Score: 1

      Why was this marked as troll?

    26. Re:Define professionals? by Dupple · · Score: 1

      It's a distinction made by apple about applications that use a single window interface. It is wholly counter intuitive and doesn't even follow their own HIG. Pretty good (albeit 6 years old) article here if you're interested. It's the only one I could find easily. http://www.betalogue.com/2005/02/25/garageband-2-and-other-iapps-single-window-interface-problems-still-not-solved/

      --
      Watch those corners
    27. Re:Define professionals? by TheCouchPotatoFamine · · Score: 2

      I program extremely well on it. i'm a professional python developer who's used OSX+TextMate for the last 6 years, and would not switch away unless under duress. I REALLY like the key binding to moving the cursor around and have built up a great reflex memory for it. Perhaps that your problem, simply reflex memory. Understandable. I have a really hard time with windows based keyboards when I use a "real" pc - but no such issues in a VM because the VM keyboard is mapped to the apple one. Just an opposing view.

      --
      CS majors know the time/space tradeoff, but they never get taught the 3rd, crucial, tradeoff of the set: comprehension!
    28. Re:Define professionals? by Space+cowboy · · Score: 1

      There's a cult-like following, here, but it isn't Apple.

      Hint: if you're selling millions upon millions of things to people, it's too large to be a 'cult' ...

      Simon.

      --
      Physicists get Hadrons!
    29. Re:Define professionals? by TheCouchPotatoFamine · · Score: 2

      I think, when people say the UI is triumph, they are referring to two things. One is that the UI is OpenGL composited and thus feels very solid. Two is the lack of really, really mind numbing stupidity like un-re-sizeable dialogs (as in the control panel or connect-network-drive UI in windows) and dumb-ass button choices like "yes-no" not "verb-cancel". Honestly, OSX IS a triumph... only when you compare it to windows. That may be damning with faint praise, but it's still praise :)

      --
      CS majors know the time/space tradeoff, but they never get taught the 3rd, crucial, tradeoff of the set: comprehension!
    30. Re:Define professionals? by indymike · · Score: 1

      The issue is that Apple designs for the market that will exist when the product is released instead of the current market. IT for example is becoming less and less relevant in context of what kind of device you use to access business systems. For many companies, browser based software is quickly replacing old thick client apps. So, now the expectation is that you work from home, use your own laptop, and log in to company web services to get things done. That means the buyer is an individual. Apple recognized this three years ago, and the competition is still seeking easy 1990's style "laptop standard IV" style corporate deals.

      --
      -- Mike
    31. Re:Define professionals? by theedgeofoblivious · · Score: 4, Insightful

      With Windows or common Linux desktop environments when you maximize a window the window takes up the full screen, regardless of whether there's enough content in the window to fill the whole screen. This often leaves vast areas of white space on the sides and bottom of the window.

      On the Mac, the green button zooms the window to be big enough to see everything that's inside the window, and if you click it again it just returns to the size it was before. The maximize button to exit full screen in Windows behaves *identically* to the green button in OS X when exiting full screen. It returns the window to a user-determined size that doesn't necessarily show the full content of the window. Your lack of understanding of it doesn't make it bad design.

      In the same way, having the icons on the right side makes more sense, because normally the windows cover up the space on the left. When I hit the green button, I can see 1. All of the content of the window, 2. the icons on my desktop, and 3. the windows behind my front window. How exactly is having vast areas of white space within the front window better than being able to still see the full content of the front window but also being able to use your much-valued screen real estate to see other things in the unused space around and behind it?

      The x button closes the application if the application is only capable of having one window(like utility programs) and closes just the window if the application is capable of having multiple windows. This makes it so you don't have to wait for a whole application to relaunch if you accidentally close the last window. But most Mac users know that you can hit command q to completely close a program(which is the functionality you're claiming that OS X doesn't have) or command w to close just the window. It's interesting that you'd deride OS X for the fact that Windows lacks that granularity of function.

    32. Re:Define professionals? by findoutmoretoday · · Score: 1

      In my world specialised  professional software doesn't sell at 299$

    33. Re:Define professionals? by mspohr · · Score: 1

      I used to really like an editor called BRIEF back in my bad old days of programming (20+ years ago). I'll have to look at TextMate.

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    34. Re:Define professionals? by boristhespider · · Score: 1

      You try claiming that it's quicker to get to, say, File->Open when it's attached to the screen on the far left and the program you're working with is on the far right. The difference could be anything like 10 pixels compared to more than 3,000. Your argument doesn't make much sense on a multiple screen setup, even if it's fine on a single screen. I like OSX's UI, myself, but only having a menu on one screen when I'm working multiscreen drives me bonkers as well.

    35. Re:Define professionals? by BasilBrush · · Score: 2

      It's a culture shock that all switchers go through. I had it myself, and I've seen it umpteen times in others. It just tales a little time to get used to what's different from your previous platform.

      If you were switching from Mac to PC you'd be wondering where the eject, volume up/down, brightness up/down, media control, and Expose/Spaces/Dashboard buttons were on your new keyboard.

      You make a good point about the menu. But you don't have to have the menu on your primary monitor. You can put it on any monitor, it's an option in System Preferences. But after a while you'll find you're rarely using the menu in apps that you're familiar with. You get used to keyboard shortcuts. And most actions tend to be on toolbars that are attached to application windows, and these are generally customisable.

      But there's no point me or anyone else trying to persuade you. If you are using the Mac as you primary computer, then as I say you'll get used to it. You'll develop a whole new muscle memory different to your Linux muscle memory. And you'll discover a whole bundle of things you prefer abut the Mac UI from what was on your old OS.

    36. Re:Define professionals? by milkmage · · Score: 1

      i'll believe it when they kill off the MacPro.

      BTO RAID, dual 6 core Westmere @3GHz, Fiber networking, 64GB RAM and 4x512GB SSDs...for the consumer.

      yeah.. $17,000 for ichat and facetime - monitor extra

    37. Re:Define professionals? by mspohr · · Score: 1
      I am using a MacBook so pretty much stuck with the limited keyboard. I know that I can use various key combinations to emulate the missing keys but find it a PITA.

      I just don't buy your argument about the superiority of having only one menu at the top of the primary screen. I can easily find the top of the window I'm working on and it's always a lot closer and easier to find than moving the cursor to the top of the screen of the other monitor. Really, Apple needs to update this bit of the UI to move away from the last century.

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    38. Re:Define professionals? by epine · · Score: 2, Informative

      jobs on high dictated the move to intel

      Any narrow advantage held by the Power architecture was quickly disappearing by 2003 when the first Operton chips with AMD64/SSE2 hit the market (for users able to jump to 64-bits), and pretty much obliterated with the introduction of the Core Duo in January 2006.

      x86 had an ugly childhood, but it turns out there wasn't anything desperately wrong with its performance potential. Jobs made such a big deal of x86 being somehow deeply inferior. The x86 is deeply inferior when you try to build efficient devices under a watt. The little tricks used in x86 to achieve high performance are expensive in power consumption and nearly impossible to fix without an instruction set overhaul. ARM was the true victor.

      You really have the edict entirely backward. It was Jobs' edict that Apple would slug it out on a platform with a small market share, and for which IBM could not afford to develop to market-leading performance on an indefinite basis. Finally Jobs lifted the anti-Intel edict because he had no choice. Not just in performance, but also available production quantity.

      When you get right down to it, I'm sure Jobs regarded PowerPC as a convenient walled garden. He didn't want his miracle machine to become too compatible. But it was probably also a huge burden to carry your own ISA for 10% market share. Look how they've done since.

      The money made by Microsoft, Apple and Google, 1985 until today

      The decade of PowerPC pretty much corresponds with the Apple doldrums. Imagine that.

      I'm curious whether his reality distortion field penetrates from the after life, or whether Gandalf the White will arrive to perform an exorcism at long last.

    39. Re:Define professionals? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The A/V professions that are pissed about things like the new FCP aren't really "professionals". They are amateurs that want to pretend like they are talented professionals. If Final Cut Pro 7 is working great for you, if that's how you manage your professional video workflowthen just keep on using it. It should work well for YEARS to come. The new FCP is optimized for speed. It's optimized for doing things quickly. They are taking the product line in a slightly different direction. It will take a few iterations before it matures. When Final Cut first came out it was missing a lot of "standard features" too. Most of the creative professionals I know, who are actually talented, don't cry and complain. Apple hasn't abandoned them. They don't need the absolute latest software. In fact, they are usually a generation or two behind because they've mastered that particular version. Sure, there might be a feature or two in CS5 that isn't in CS3, but pretending like you can't use CS3 anymore because CS5 is out is ridiculous.

    40. Re:Define professionals? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      fanboys justifying fanboys. nice.

      that would cost about $5k without the picture of the fruit on the side.

      "lol look we're professional! it has FIBER NETWORKING!" hahahhahhahahha jesus, you seriously need to check into apple rehab.

    41. Re:Define professionals? by Truekaiser · · Score: 1

      sorry but professional and audiophile mean opposite things.
      professional's know they can get the same product with cheaper non-apple hardware because it's the same thing. audiophiles buy over priced monster cables with gold or platinum thinking it 'reduces' noise when all tests show a cable 1/10th the cost produces the same result.

    42. Re:Define professionals? by Truekaiser · · Score: 0

      just because it's in a case with the apple logo doesn't make the hardware magically better. the parts are exactly the same as the other laptop's granted some laptop models have heat dispersion issues and mac's are not immune. a simple google search would show many mac book both pro and non have had over heating problems.
      http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=overheating+mac+books

      really do your homework.

    43. Re:Define professionals? by bonch · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      How does a generic Apple-bashing post using terminology like "iSheep" get modded up as insightful? No examples are given of how you must be creative in the "Apple sanctioned way."

      I refuse to buy an Apple product anymore because I am smart enough to make my own choices

      This is the driving motivator behind Apple bashing. It's an attempt to convince yourself that you are so damn smart for not using something that's popular. You are the guy standing in the corner at the party, arms crossed and grumbling about how much smarter you are than the "sheep" while everyone else has fun.

    44. Re:Define professionals? by bonch · · Score: 0

      You're another one of these terrified PC users who's afraid of losing the PC nerd playground to the rise of appliance devices. You use dumb terminology like "iCrap" because you're afraid of change.

    45. Re:Define professionals? by xouumalperxe · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You seem to have gotten the whole point of the menu-on-top thing wrong. It's not a matter of maximizing usable space in a low-res environment, it's a consequence of Fitts's Law: The acquisition time for a target on screen is something like log(distance/size). If the menus were on the windows, the distance would be smaller, but by having the menus against an edge of the screen, you can't overshoot towards the edge, so the target size is effectively infinite. No bad UI about that.

      Also, leaving an application running without a UI is a perfectly reasonable idea, once you dissociate applications and windows -- in fact, there are many, many programs that practically demand it (mail, bittorrent, IM in general). If you look at the windows world, this distinction also exists, except that windows handled this in a completely hackish way until Windows 7, which was via the system tray icons. Windows 7 finally supports windowless applications properly, though that's a recent advance and many applications still don't support it. I can't honestly think of any non-X11 applications that actually close completely when you close the last window.

      All in all, though, I agree: the best part of modern Macs is what's underneath the hood. They're effectively the only consumer-grade machines in the market that are purpose-made to run Unix.

    46. Re:Define professionals? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Professionals are those the use a platform because it has the best application(s) for their job. Apple zealots will buy Apple gear because of the badge. They are not professionals. Those using FCP for their job are pros. Dumbing it down is a kick in the teeth. But it won't matter, they'll move over to a better platform in due course. Ergo, Apple is turning its back on pros. Maybe Apple shouldn't have bought FCP in the first place, they probably only did it because they were running scared they'd end up with another Adobe situation, and end up with no serious Apple only software. But that doesn't matter now, Apple are consumer based, and very successfully turned their badge into a fashion statement. In 5 years time, that won't be the case and they'll have to compete on merit, while another pretender to the throne rises. Same shit happened to Sony. Darlings one decade, complete cunts, and screwed two later.

    47. Re:Define professionals? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      THIS post is rated Score:5 Insightful? You've got to be kidding me. It really is true - Slashdot has descended into mindless group-think and silly fanboi wars. I come here for INTELLIGENT comments, not something that looks like up was whipped up by a 15-year old kid in his bedroom with cut and paste from some wikipedia articles and a dose of hate. Seriously. The moderation system is BROKEN.

    48. Re:Define professionals? by David_Hart · · Score: 1

      Something else to remember is that much of the video processing used to be handled by the CPU, which gave Apple an advantage even though it was more expensive. Over the last 5 years this has shifted to the GPU. GPU processing was evening the playing field between the Mac and the PC and may have been one of the factors that influenced the switchover to the intel platform.

    49. Re:Define professionals? by BasilBrush · · Score: 3, Informative

      The fact that the X button sometimes closes the application, and sometimes leaves the application running without a UI is also bad.

      Why is it bad? It's a developer choice do do whichever is more appropriate for the app. On Windows an app MUST close when its last window closes, unless the developer puts it into the system tray.

      The reasoning for leaving the app open when a multiple document app has it's last window closed is straight forward. It's a common usage pattern to finish working on one document and then start working on another. If apps quit when the last window closes, then this happens:
      The user closes the first document, and the UI to open the next document (File/Open) disappears. They then have to restart the app, which involves waiting, before they ca open their next document.

      But for apps which are not document based, that argument doesn't apply. Closing the window on a single window app really does mean you've finished working with that app for the time being.

      Then there are other reasons for choosing one behaviour or another. If an app does useful work even when there are no Windows, then of course it makes sense to keep it open. iTunes is an obvious example.

      There's a reason why Mac developers have this choice and Windows developers don't get it (apart from the system tray utility option). Because with Windows, the disappearance of the last window means that access to the menu has also disappeared. That's not the case with Mac.

    50. Re:Define professionals? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The consistent heat management problem in Apple's laptops has resulted in quite a lot of premature hardware death issues. Nothing that warrants insane media attention; but enough so that even the likes of Dell's (Business) line can commonly be more relied on. That overheating issue co-incidentally was a particularly big problem this year. And lets not mention the recall Apple did with some of this year's iMac either. The latter is user fixable, but not exactly the most friendly one.

    51. Re:Define professionals? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I thought you were trolling, until I checked that configuration on the apple store and found that it was even more expensive at 16.6k Euro (about 22k USD). For instance, they charge 1400 euro for a 512 GB ssd and 3400 euro for 64 GB RAM.

    52. Re:Define professionals? by ceoyoyo · · Score: 2

      That's an interesting trinity you've got there. Although if christianity can worship a trinity and still be monotheistic, I guess a trinity with four members isn't do big a stretch.

    53. Re:Define professionals? by AngryDeuce · · Score: 2

      You use dumb terminology like "iCrap" because you're afraid of change.

      No, I'm afraid of a future where all of our tech goods are so locked down we can't even change the fucking battery without voiding a warranty. If you were able to see the forest for the trees you would be afraid, too.

    54. Re:Define professionals? by Lord_Jeremy · · Score: 1

      They undoubtedly killed of the Xserve because the cost of developing and supporting it was higher than the returns from relatively weak sales. If the professional Mac line starts to falter, they'd probably give the expensive-to-engineer Mac Pro line the axe too.

    55. Re:Define professionals? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      It's true. But the advantages of a single menu apply to most users. The disadvantage only applies to the minority that are using multiple monitors.

      I do both. Most of the time I'm roaming with a MacBook. But in certain development situations I hook up to a separate larger monitor. I can't say that the single menu thing causes me that must bother. I tend to put the windows I don't need a menu for on the monitor with no menu. (Documentation, web browser, iOS Simulator) The app I'm interacting with lives on the monitor with the menu.

      But it'd certainly be a nice option if Apple allowed you to mirror the menu on multiple monitors.

    56. Re:Define professionals? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Reasons unknown? How very ignorant of you. The internet is a wonderful invention - with it you can discover the reasons people have for making different decisions from yours. To pretend they don't have reasons is nothing but ignorance.

      And since you mention cults, refusing to accept that people who make different decisions have good reasons for doing so is very much the action of a cultist. I suggest you take a long hard look at yourself in the mirror.

    57. Re:Define professionals? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, I bet the sales of those must be in the tens of tens...

      They probably sell 1,000 iMacs for every Mac Pro out there. That line will be gone within 5 years, I guarantee it.

    58. Re:Define professionals? by Lord_Jeremy · · Score: 2

      Indeed. The UI hack that things like Photoshop and Word have used on Windows, making a huge window with a menu bar and a gigantic empty space in the middle for where your documents show up is just awful. With the global menubar and applications persisting after last window closed means that the user is mentally separating "close" from "quit". On Windows, closing a window could do one of a few things (close window and put in tray, close and quit, close and go back to empty space MDI) but for most applications on a Mac, closing a window is just closing a window and quitting the Application is an entirely different action.

    59. Re:Define professionals? by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 2

      This is the driving motivator behind Apple bashing. It's an attempt to convince yourself that you are so damn smart for not using something that's popular.

      Since when has 5% of the market meant "popular"? Only when there's an "i" in front of it...

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    60. Re:Define professionals? by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      We all know that Macbook, iPhone, iPad and a Starbucks Grande-size Latte are the holy trinity in being "cool;" the PC is not a good substitute for this.

      Who's we? I don't consider them "cool".

    61. Re:Define professionals? by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Two is the lack of really, really mind numbing stupidity like un-re-sizeable dialogs (as in the control panel or connect-network-drive UI in windows) and dumb-ass button choices like "yes-no" not "verb-cancel".

      Control Panel and the network drive UI dialogs are fully resizable in Windows 7. As far as the dumb-ass button choices, that's almost always the developer, since the verbiage/buttons available are completely under control of the dev. Get mad at the poor program design, rather than the OS. Windows 7 is VERY consistent in dialog button verbiage.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    62. Re:Define professionals? by colinrichardday · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If change is good, then what about the ability to change a battery, or a software configuration? If I weary of SuSE 11.4, I can change distros. How does one do this on an iPad?

      I dislike such appliances not because they represent change, but because they prevent it.

    63. Re:Define professionals? by SmurfButcher+Bob · · Score: 2

      You've never heard of a vertical market, have you. You have no clue what it is, nor what depends on it. Worse, you have no clue how it doesn't work under the Apple scheme.

      --

      help me i've cloned myself and can't remember which one I am

    64. Re:Define professionals? by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 2

      Also, leaving an application running without a UI is a perfectly reasonable idea, once you dissociate applications and windows -- in fact, there are many, many programs that practically demand it (mail, bittorrent, IM in general). If you look at the windows world, this distinction also exists, except that windows handled this in a completely hackish way until Windows 7, which was via the system tray icons. Windows 7 finally supports windowless applications properly, though that's a recent advance and many applications still don't support it.

      Programs that still have user interface demands (even if transitory, like IM) should have some means of accessing them - and in Windows 7, they still exist in the system tray (usually bunched up in the sys tray popup). A program that does not need user interface should be a service - not a program.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    65. Re:Define professionals? by cynyr · · Score: 1

      so industrial designers are not creative professionals? how about manufacturing engineers that have to figure out how to actually make what the industrial designer thought up. Architects? Programmers/software engineers?

      --
      All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
    66. Re:Define professionals? by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 2

      and walk-up service centers in most major cities.

      I've always wondered about this... Why do people consider this better? If my HP breaks, I call HP - and someone is out the very next day to where I am, to fix/repair/replace what is needed. No need for me to find and trek down to an Apple store (if there is one). I've used the Dell and HP on-site service rarely, but it's invaluable. Even had a tech guy show up the next day at Ice Harbor dam in Eastern Washington when working out in the middle of nowhere (and 4 hours from an Apple store).

      Having the company come to me and service my laptop is infinitely better than my having to go to the company...

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    67. Re:Define professionals? by theedgeofoblivious · · Score: 1

      I'll amend my post above by saying that each screen should have its own menu bar, but other than that, I do use multiple monitors(as I said in my post above), and having the menu bar at the top of the screen is easier than having it at the top of the window.

    68. Re:Define professionals? by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      I recently switched to Mac from Linux (primarily for the nice hardware) but am having trouble getting used to OS X and the odd keyboard. How do you program on it?

      With microEMACS (just as I do on Solaris and Linux and FreeBSD and...).

      I find the keyboard lacks a few crucial keys (a real delete key,

      Presumably meaning "delete the character under the cursor" rather than "delete the character to the left of the cursor". Control-D should work in a lot of cases (hint: there's a sequence of five capital letters in my previous reply paragraph that describes where a lot of keystrokes supported by a lot of Mac OS X come from :-)).

      pgup/pgdn)

      At least on my MacBook Pro, {fn}+the cursor up and down keys do the job there.

      and odd use of other keys (the command - flower power key - seems to do most of what the ctrl key does on Linux

      Yes, for menu accelerators, it's the Command key in Mac OS and Control in Windows/KDE/GNOME/etc.. It does have the advantage that copy and paste in a terminal window can use the same sequence as in other windows, rather than having to use Control+Shift rather than Control; given how much time I spend in Terminal, that's a win for me, at least.

    69. Re:Define professionals? by mspohr · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the tips. I'm slowly coming to terms with the UI and keyboard. I love the MacBook Air hardware... just need to get used to the OS.

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    70. Re:Define professionals? by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      Also, leaving an application running without a UI is a perfectly reasonable idea, once you dissociate applications and windows -- in fact, there are many, many programs that practically demand it (mail, bittorrent, IM in general).

      Or, rather, disassociate processes and windows. In Mac OS X, all documents opened by a given app are normally handled by the same process (which might be a bit of a pain if you have many documents that chew up a lot of application address space open and the app is 32-bit, but 64-bit is the future); that's a lot less common on other desktop environments, as far as I know - are Web browsers the main exception there?

      Windows 7 finally supports windowless applications properly, though that's a recent advance and many applications still don't support it. I can't honestly think of any non-X11 applications that actually close completely when you close the last window.

      So if you have, say, four Word documents open, are there four processes running Word, or just one?

      All in all, though, I agree: the best part of modern Macs is what's underneath the hood. They're effectively the only consumer-grade machines in the market that are purpose-made to run Unix.

      Not that this makes the hardware particularly different from other consumer-grade machines. It's perhaps better stated as "the only consumer-grade machines in the market that ship with a flavor of Unix as the native OS". (Well, except for netbooks running Linux; I assume the market in question doesn't include tablets, say.)

    71. Re:Define professionals? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Beh. Numbers are for MBAs and other kinds of closed-minded square old daddies.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    72. Re:Define professionals? by SteveW928 · · Score: 1

      I'd actually say it is the other way around. Consumer products have become more professional. This is especially true with the hardware (software is a bit more arguable). There was once a time when most professionals needed to buy the 'Pro' line of Apple equipment. These days, very few people need the Pro models anymore, as expandability (given the abilities for external expansion) is mostly a thing of the past. For example, an iMac will suffice for most professionals today.

      re: Engineering software - 1) There are some incredibly good CAD and Rendering and Animation apps for the Mac. (I'd argue, even better in some cases) 2) One can always dual-boot (or possibly use VMWare Fusion or Parallels) to run any needed Windows apps, if one has to be compatible with some 'industry app.'

    73. Re:Define professionals? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I dont think engineers and such have ever been target customers for Apple."

      If you can sell 8-10 million iPhones in a weekend, fuck the engineers.

    74. Re:Define professionals? by optimism · · Score: 2

      Today, aesthetic quirks aside, the only difference between a Macbook and a PC laptop is the Macbook's ability to natively run OS X.

      Also...the PC laptops are cheaper, easier to maintain, and offer a broader range of features and quality components than the MBs.

      For example: I'm writing this on a Thinkpad X60t, which has a tablet-convertible display, Wacom digitizer (active, pressure-sensitve stylus), touchscreen, 3-button mouse, IBM trackpoint, BOE-Hydis AFFS+ LCD (better than IPS)...and it weighs about 3½ pounds.

      Apple has never made any machine that comes remotely close to that level of functionality and quality.

      And then there is maintenance to consider. Ever have a keyboard key stick or fail on a MBP keyboard? Apple Store wants $200+ to fix it. And with good reason. The MacBooks are built to be disposable devices. Replacing a keyboard requires not only a heap of screws/fasteners, and removal of various subcomponents, but also some adhesives, and some bend & break tabs.

      On our Thinkpads, I've replaced keyboards in less than 1 minute, 4 screws. On Dell laptops, 30 seconds, 2 screws. Hard drive, 1 screw. Memory, 2 screws. Etc. IBM and Dell designed their computers to be maintained. Apple did not.

      Apple has, and hopefully always be, about making profit by catering to the consumer. Let's not get deluded about that.

      As long as you mean the "highest-end" consumer.

      From it's very beginning, Apple has charged a heavy premium for their products, and targeted them at the top 5% of consumers. The iPod and iPhone are radical changes from Apple's historical market. But...they still have that "high end" residue.

      Historically:

      The Apple IIe was the longest-lived Apple computer. Released 1983 for $1400, competing against the equally-capable Commodore 64 which was released 1982 for $595. The Apple IIe was produced for 10 years. I don't have sales numbers for the IIe only, but all Apple II models combined sold only 5-6 million units. By contrast, the single model C64 sold around 15 million units.

      The Apple Lisa cost $10,000 in 1983. That's $22,000 in 2011 dollars. Not exactly a "consumer" product, unless the average consumer thinks a computer should cost as much as their car.

      The first Macintosh, in 1984, cost $2500. Somewhat more than $5000 in today's dollars. But by then they had competition in the PC space, which cost much much less.

      Over the years I have owned & used many Apple computers...Apple II series, Mac Plus/SE, Mac II models, PowerBooks (including that nifty dockable PowerBook Duo 230, etc. Since the mid-1990s, they have ALWAYS cost more and delivered less functionality than high-end PCs. So I went from being a mostly Apple user, to a mixed Apple/PC user, to a mostly PC user.

      Portable devices are a brave new world. Apple has a very clear lead in design & technology & marketing & retail clout right now. I love my iPhone, much as I loved my first Mac and first PowerBook. But I totally expect that it will be replaced by a cheaper, more flexible system in about 5 years.

    75. Re:Define professionals? by RatherBeAnonymous · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The fact that the X button sometimes closes the application, and sometimes leaves the application running without a UI is also bad.

      Why is it bad? It's a developer choice do do whichever is more appropriate for the app. On Windows an app MUST close when its last window closes, unless the developer puts it into the system tray.

      The reasoning for leaving the app open when a multiple document app has it's last window closed is straight forward. It's a common usage pattern to finish working on one document and then start working on another. If apps quit when the last window closes, then this happens: The user closes the first document, and the UI to open the next document (File/Open) disappears. They then have to restart the app, which involves waiting, before they ca open their next document.

      But for apps which are not document based, that argument doesn't apply. Closing the window on a single window app really does mean you've finished working with that app for the time being.

      Then there are other reasons for choosing one behaviour or another. If an app does useful work even when there are no Windows, then of course it makes sense to keep it open. iTunes is an obvious example.

      There's a reason why Mac developers have this choice and Windows developers don't get it (apart from the system tray utility option). Because with Windows, the disappearance of the last window means that access to the menu has also disappeared. That's not the case with Mac.

      Mac applications act this way due to legacy decisions made for the original circa 1984 Mac, not because it's the right way to do things. At the time, it took the Mac a long time to start applications. Apple decided on this behavior to make the computer more responsive when opening new documents. Now days, document open much more quickly and this behavior is no longer required. Personally, the behavior drives me nuts because when I click on a running app in the doc that has no open windows, the program doesn't do anything. It should, at that point, actually respond; open a new project, give me a file-open dialog box, anything but sit there looking pretty. Programs that do something useful in the background with no open files are few and far between. If a program has something useful to do in the background than it should be implemented as a light-weight daemon, rather than a full blown app like iTunes.

      The other issue with this behavior is that it is not easy to tell at a glance to tell what programs are running. The strength of the Windows Task Bar is that it clearly separates running programs from application launch icons. Certainly, this is a matter of what people are accustomed to, but for myself and I think many people who are accustomed to windows, this is infuriating.

    76. Re:Define professionals? by zzatz · · Score: 1

      Yes, professionals is too broad a category. But the article does have a point; Apple is moving away from software that scales. They are very good at delivering products that meet the needs of single users. If you have one copy of FCP, you'll probably be happy to switch to the new version. If you have 20 copies, you not only won't be happy, you probably can't switch. The new version isn't designed for multiple people working on the same project. Multiple independent projects? Try it and see.

      It's not just the software. Apple does a great job of providing service and support to one user at a time. Home user or business user, you can take your MacBook into an Apple store and get it fixed. Need some training? Same deal - works great for one or two users at a time, if you are near a store, and during business hours. But Apple doesn't scale to enterprises. I'm talking about 24/7 on-site repairs, on-site training for large groups, and so on. That's OK, it may be better for Apple to elect to stay out of certain markets rather than do it poorly.

      Apple is focused on consumers. There are professionals whose needs match those of consumers, so Apple serves them. Other than tools, developer's needs overlap home users, so you shouldn't worry. Other professionals are finding that Apple no longer serves them. The more your professional workflow differs from that of home users, the more you should worry.

    77. Re:Define professionals? by The+Dawn+Of+Time · · Score: 1

      The single menu bar is, to me, garbage, and I say this as a Mac user. Love on the idea of an infinite target till the end of time, but the modern mouse is a precision tool and it doesn't require significantly more effort or time to hit an in-window menu.

    78. Re:Define professionals? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Mac applications act this way due to legacy decisions made for the original circa 1984 Mac, not because it's the right way to do things. At the time, it took the Mac a long time to start applications. Apple decided on this behavior to make the computer more responsive when opening new documents. Now days, document open much more quickly and this behavior is no longer required.

      Fine if you have a brand new high spec Mac. But I've got a 2008 MacBook, upgraded to Lion. I've just timed reopening xcode (with a single project and the organizer open). It took 9 seconds. Pages took 7 seconds.

      And of course if you don't have it in the dock, you need to add the time taken to find the app in to apps folder or Launchpad.

      And what't the benefit to closing when the last window closes? You potentially save a a space in the dock. and... No, that's it. Vitual memory means that memory consumption isn't really an issue.

      Mac OS does it be right way.

      Note that new OS designs on phones and tablets tend to not close apps either. They only get closed when lack of resources demand it. And then the OS does it's best to hide the fact that it was closed by restarting in the exact same state.

      Windows (and the way Linux GUIs copy it) are a suboptimal way. It always was, and it still is. It's just that because of market share most people are used to that way and consider it normal.

    79. Re:Define professionals? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Fit's law still applies whether you want to accept it or not. It's not about inaccurate mice.

      And Fit's law isn't the only reason. Conserving screen space and removing clutter are other reasons.

      Appart from the multi-monitor issue, there's no benefit to having a menu per window.

    80. Re:Define professionals? by dfghjk · · Score: 1

      You give the original mac too much credit. "The final product's screen was a 9-inch, 512x342 pixel monochrome display..." from Wikipedia...

      Yes, the mac UI is full of idiosyncrasies that are passed off as intuitive brilliance. "Fitts's law" is among the most ridiculous, having not been relevant since machines got real displays. That, of course, occurred in macs long after everywhere else. ;)

      Yes, the good parts of OS X are under the hood, the UI is just a different stink you grow accustomed to.

    81. Re:Define professionals? by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      correct, the power chips they used before had extensions that did tend to give it a slight edge over x86 in encoding and photoshop tasks.

      Did that still apply with the generation of x86 processors Apple started shipping with (much less what they ship with now)?

    82. Re:Define professionals? by dfghjk · · Score: 0

      Fitts's Law is irrelevant to devices with modern display sizes and resolutions. It was more about Apple arrogance all along, but it ceased being a compelling argument once multiple programs were simultaneously displayed on a screen bigger than a postage stamp. On today's screens, one is far more likely to be slowed down spanning the huge distance to the screen top, especially if doing so slightly wrong causes defocusing of the window as occurs frequently with me. That never occurs on tiny screens with full-screen apps for which Fitts's Law originally applied. The top menu bar is a UI dog.

      It wasn't about optimizing screen real estate, though, you got that right. The top menu bar doesn't save screen real estate though it does create a handy area for software to plug into.

    83. Re:Define professionals? by vux984 · · Score: 4, Funny

      so the target size is effectively infinite. No bad UI about that.

      That would be true if the menu bar were the target. But typically we target menu ITEMS.

      It also fails to account for the fact that AFTER we use a menu item, we tend to want to put the cursor somewhere in the application window we were using... which if on a different monitor in a 2 large monitor system is a small target a VERY long way away. And we wouldn't have to make that trip if we hadn't had to go up to the menu bar.

      Trying to suggest suggest the OSX menu bar is a good application of interface design using fitte's law in a multi-monitor setup is like concluding the best place to put the ketchup on a large picnic table would be at the bottom of a steep slide attached to the picnic table that ends in a brick wall.

      Anyone who wants the ketchup can just run down the slid at full tilt into the brick wall... its pure genius.

    84. Re:Define professionals? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since when has 5% of the market meant "popular"?

      Apple’s share of the US personal computer market hasn’t been as low as 5% in over four years. As of January 2011, Apple was third for US personal computer market share, behind HP and Dell, and HP is now getting out of the PC business (unless they change their mind again).

      Go away troll.

    85. Re:Define professionals? by laffer1 · · Score: 2

      I would completely agree that the non-visible changes to Lion are mostly good. It's very stable. However, I think many people have genuine complaints about the user interface. Apple changed things for no good reason, just to do it. When Microsoft does that, people complain like mad yet when Apple does it, it's an attack on users.

      For example, why can't i click away from a widget to get out of dashboard now. I have to click a button in the corner or hit escape. It made it much less efficient to use. Why did they invert the mouse? I had to find a command line hack to fix that because the mouse preferences don't show it for a Microsoft mouse with the proper driver installed. What's the point of launchpad? I think I've used it once. Why did they make address book and ical look like "real" items. It's ugly and requires extra clicks to add calendar entries from different calendars. The list goes on and on.

      The problem is that all the good apple and next people retired. We've got younger programmers who grew up with web pages that all look different designing the user interface. They don't care about HCI guidelines or consistency anymore. Windows is more consistent and polished. That's just sad. I hate Windows 7's 5+ clicks to do anything UI, but at least it's predicable.

      This isn't just it's different.. it's different in a bad way. That is a legitimate complaint.

      I don't hate everything about lion. Safari, iTunes, Time Machine, and Terminal all work well. iCloud is nice (except for the lack of merging accounts). GCD (libdispatch) is awesome.

      I suspect the next OS X release will be much better. They'll probably flush out how crazy they want to get duplicating the iOS UI by then and finish what they started.

    86. Re:Define professionals? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      As an engineer who works with dozens of Macs and PCs in a creative environment (broadcast television production and post), the differences in the platforms are not the ugly/pretty hardware or the Starbucks Latte.

      The difference is OS X kicks WIndows' ass for navigation and integration with software. That's very important when you're just trying to get something done. Windows is full of "WTF were they thinking?" moments. OS X has them too, but not nearly so much.

      Some artists switch back and forth on the platforms because of whatever they're working on today and what's available. Knowing the difference, they're all enormously frustrated with Windows.

      For "turning away" from professionals, the latest Apple tools will create a whole new range of professionals - a lot more than we have now. The people who have been using Final Cut Pro for the last 10 years hate FCP X, even after trying it for a whole five minutes. The people touching FCP X with no opinion think it absolutely rocks. You can get a lot more done without as many mouse clicks and keystrokes. Granted, there are some gaping holes, but those will get filled or obviated. It's just a shame how it was thrust into the mainstream without being finished.

    87. Re:Define professionals? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, you said it. I'm sick to death of Slashdot anymore. It used to have intelligent commentary, but it's just like you say. Completely juvenile.

    88. Re:Define professionals? by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      I'm a professional, I love my MBP with its glossy screen - I'm a developer - and I have no issues with it. I sit in front of it for most of the day, in either Windows 7 for .Net, or in OSX for IOS development and its a great bit of kit to use.

      I think you're missing the point. It's good that you like your screen, but what if you worked in an environment where glare is an issue? The point is that the glossy screen is your only option, you have no other options with Apple. Now you need a third-party product to remove the gloss from the glossy screen. Again, it's great that it works for you, but the point is that there is no choice in the matter.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    89. Re:Define professionals? by Boronx · · Score: 2

      What happened to Rosetta Stone?

    90. Re:Define professionals? by arth1 · · Score: 0

      I've got a 2008 MacBook, upgraded to Lion. I've just timed reopening xcode (with a single project and the organizer open). It took 9 seconds. Pages took 7 seconds.

      ...

      Mac OS does it be right way.

      Obviously.

      It doesn't take me 7 seconds to fork an editor on my Linux dev box, no matter how big the source file. Even remotely through VPN. I must do it be wrong way.

    91. Re:Define professionals? by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Apple’s share of the US personal computer market hasn’t been as low as 5% in over four years.

      I'm sorry, I didn't realize we were talking US only - I guess you need to do that, otherwise the facts would show that Apple is about 6.8% of the worldwide market. In North America, you'll find it's less than 14%. Is that "popular"? Only with fanbois who respond and are too cowardly to use their name...

      Sorry to burst your bubble... Facts are inconvenient things to fanbois, aren't they?

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    92. Re:Define professionals? by swalve · · Score: 2

      When an Apple breaks, do they send someone to your office to fix it?

    93. Re:Define professionals? by intheshelter · · Score: 0

      Wow, seems like you just wanted to be cool so you joined the Apple bashing crowd. I saw no goose-stepping Steve Jobs, just someone who obviously had a different vision than you. I think your BS rant makes you look a bit transparent and foolish.

    94. Re:Define professionals? by Malc · · Score: 1

      The point of the menu at the top is that it is faster with the mouse. You only need to be accurate in the left-right direction, not up-down. You just push the mouse hard (the edge of the screen prevents over-shooting) and then fine-tune in one dimension.

    95. Re:Define professionals? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      Xcode isn't an editor, dumbass. Source file? Singular? When you've progressed to developing software with many source files, then you can comment, not before.

    96. Re:Define professionals? by sonicmerlin · · Score: 0

      "If the menus were on the windows, the distance would be smaller, but by having the menus against an edge of the screen, you can't overshoot towards the edge, so the target size is effectively infinite. No bad UI about that."

      I'd also like to point out that one of the most frustrating thing for new users of computers (such as the elderly) is the difficulty of manipulating a cursor on the screen with a secondary device to press tiny virtual buttons. It's extremely unintuitive for them. Every time they overshoot a button- and as you point out it happens quite easily on Windows- it adds to their frustration. It's one of the reason the iPad has been so successful, despite running a mere "phone OS". See an application? Press on it. Voila you're done! Want to see more apps? Flick to the left like turning a page. Voila! People often complained about the lack of folders in early versions of iOS. But the problem with folders is they're not exactly intuitive for someone's who has never used a computer before. Apple only added folders to iOS when it had determined the usability to confusion ratio (where confusion was caused by clutter) was high enough to warrant its introduction. There's also a sort of "training" that goes on, where users were taught the basics of iOS, and learned more as Apple gradually- and very carefully- introduced new features in later versions.

      Contrast this to Android or Windows XP, where features come first and usability and accessibility come second (still no GPU acceleration for UI and browsing?!). It's why newcomers and casual users find it "cluttered" or "confusing".

    97. Re:Define professionals? by sonicmerlin · · Score: 1

      You're projecting. Seriously, stop regurgitating the same anti-Apple talking points you hear around the web.

    98. Re:Define professionals? by sonicmerlin · · Score: 1

      Do you understand how much easier it is to program compatibility in an OS when the number of hardware configurations is limited?

    99. Re:Define professionals? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      If a program has something useful to do in the background than it should be implemented as a light-weight daemon, rather than a full blown app like iTunes.

      A demon, by definition, is a background task with no UI. Yet a music player needs a UI. That isn't the same thing as having a window. OSX makes that distinction at the fundamental level. Windows doesn't, and Linux UIs typically follow Windows even when it's broken.

    100. Re:Define professionals? by sonicmerlin · · Score: 1

      Ha the chart only goes to 2009 but that yellow Apple line just keeps on growing exponentially. Pretty amazing. Also Apple's growing market cap has more to do with its dominance in portable electronics than the desktop arena.

    101. Re:Define professionals? by msobkow · · Score: 1

      On Windows an app MUST close when its last window closes, unless the developer puts it into the system tray.

      I guess all these windowless services running in the background on my box are figments of my imagination.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    102. Re:Define professionals? by xouumalperxe · · Score: 1

      Or, rather, disassociate processes and windows. (...) So if you have, say, four Word documents open, are there four processes running Word, or just one?

      I think you just jumped from UI design to internal software architecture. There's absolutely no reason whatsoever the two should even be related.

      Not that this makes the hardware particularly different from other consumer-grade machines. It's perhaps better stated as "the only consumer-grade machines in the market that ship with a flavor of Unix as the native OS". (Well, except for netbooks running Linux; I assume the market in question doesn't include tablets, say.)

      You can call the unix box thing whatever you like. What I care about is that I get a unix box where I know for a fact that all the hardware inside will work. And no, tablets don't count. I like the Unix toolchain, I'm not making some philosophical statement over the underpinnings of the OS.

    103. Re:Define professionals? by arth1 · · Score: 1

      Are you really this bad of a programmer?
      Xcode is an IDE, which is basically an editor environment with hooks for calling build related functions, whether it be dependency checking, debugger parsing, or building.

      So is a shell, except that you're not limited to what a pointy-clicky IDE is geared for doing, it's far more flexible.
      I have projects with several thousand source files, and dozens of editor instances that all interoperate. Without it taking more than a fraction of a second to open any file - shorter than scrolling and clicking in an IDE, for sure. And unlike the average IDE, I can actually look at an unlimited number of source files simultaneously without having to flip back and forth and lose context, and I can run multiple builds and multiple projects simultaneously too.
      Without it ever taking 7-9 seconds to start anything. That kind of UI slowness would drive me bonkers. I'd call that broken by design.

    104. Re:Define professionals? by Yaztromo · · Score: 1

      I think you're missing the point. It's good that you like your screen, but what if you worked in an environment where glare is an issue? The point is that the glossy screen is your only option, you have no other options with Apple.

      Really? Because the last time I checked (about 10 seconds ago), a non-glossy, high-resolution screen is still an option on the 15" and 17" MacBook Pro's (you know, the ones Apple actually targets at professionals). Admittedly, they do charge $150 (CDN) extra for the option, but that's a far cry from "no other options with Apple". It's not only an option, but it's one they offer you right up-front on their online store.

      Now admit it -- you're new here, and took the summary as being accurate, right? ;)

      Yaz

    105. Re:Define professionals? by xouumalperxe · · Score: 1

      On today's screens, a fairly large section of the population is on a 15" laptop display (If it's that large). And the resolution should be more or less irrelevant. Also, you'll find that Fitts's law is pretty universal, tiny screens don't come into it. Whether the size of desktop displays (and, especially, multi-display setups -- you do have a point there!) have enough of an effect that the factors change weight, now that is a discussion worth having.

    106. Re:Define professionals? by mehemiah · · Score: 1

      really? it even says "Creative Professionals" in the post. the jist of it is that Final Cut pro is apparently dumbed down. some of the commenters can point at features loss but many aren't. Now the article says that there's no CAD on the mac and I beg to differ when AutoCAD just rolled out a new version specifically for the mac. They overhauled the software just to do it.

    107. Re:Define professionals? by mehemiah · · Score: 1

      try emacs keybinding. you'll notice thats also bash's default. use escape for meta. You may have noticed the tremendous acceleration curve on the mouse, thats so you can flick you mouse up to the top when you need. Otherwise, simply learn the keyboard shortcuts, they go faster than menue hopping anyway.

    108. Re:Define professionals? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      You misunderstand. Services are the very opposite of what's being talked about. They, like daemons on Unix, are programs without a UI. Every modern OS has those under one name or another.

    109. Re:Define professionals? by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Look, Jobs was a brilliant guy but he WAS an asshole, this is pretty much common knowledge. For a good example look on YouTube for the follow up video by the guy that did the History of Apple piece. you know the one, where he did the calls "they have NO taste" bit? The producer comes on and is laughing about watching the premiere with Jobs and Jobs decides to call up gates to apologize, so what does he do? He continues to insult Gates all through the apology by saying things like "But its true Bill, you know that right? You really have NO taste whatsoever".

      Now by your argument gates just had a "different vision" which one could argue was based on an engineer's perspective. Gates wanted controls to do everything, hence everything in gates' OS was menu-tastic. But Jobs hated it because that wasn't how he would do it therefor it was crap.

      As for TFA? Pro guys? You need to be moving to Windows and Adobe and Avid NOW, right now, this minute. Because it is pretty damned obvious the writing is on the wall for the pro line, its toast. you simply aren't the demographic that makes them iMoney and as another pointed out they probably sell a thousand or more iMacs for every mac pro unit they move. They NEEDED you before because the whole "Movies and TV are created on Apple computers" was a selling point. it simply isn't anymore, as nobody cares. Now it is all iStuff and they can simply make a hell of a lot more money by making FCP into a high end iMovie. Nothing personal, just business.

      But don't worry as I'm sure that Adobe and Avid and a bazillion other little startups will be happy to take your money and give you a product that will do what you want....on Windows. The ONLY thing Ballmer got right was his "developers developers developers" and pushing Visual Studio. That makes programs easier to write on Windows, so that is where the programs will be. I'm sure you'll adapt. hell look at it THIS way, at least you'll be able to get more hardware for your money. Final call? Pro line dead in less than 3, if it lasts THAT long.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    110. Re:Define professionals? by jbolden · · Score: 1

      You can use flash fine on OSX. The flash issue is on the iphone, who does creative work on any cell phone?

      As for dumbing down the OS interfaces.... you can alter you .xinitrc and replace quartz-wm with whatever window manager you like. On the Aqua side there are always hacks to make the system more sophisticated that come out. I'll admit Lion doesn't have many yet, but Snow Leopard got plenty.

      Quite simply if you've been using Apple for years you should be easily able to customize past these problems.

    111. Re:Define professionals? by optimism · · Score: 1

      My post above contains a great deal of verifiable factual information, but it was irrationally down-modded by some Apple zealot who did not want to hear the truth.

      If you have points, please mod it back up.

      Thanks.

    112. Re:Define professionals? by mehemiah · · Score: 1

      thanks for giving me a place to put this. This exemplifies your argument. professional-video-editors-weigh-in-on-final-cut-pro-x

    113. Re:Define professionals? by jbolden · · Score: 1

      The issue isn't total sales its percentage of profits. Even when apple was about 8% of US sales it represented about 90% of the profits in the market. Quite simply Apple is one of the few vendors that isn't competing mostly on price and selling systems for approximately cost so as to get other business (like servers).

    114. Re:Define professionals? by jbolden · · Score: 2

      Programmers and SE's? Apple early on pretty much stole the Linux development crowd around the OSX 10.2 days. Seems to me DarwinPorts, Fink, Terminal and Quartz-wm still exist and offer a very good environment. As far as OSX development, Developer tools are more popular than ever, approaching visual studio levels of use (though this is driven mostly by iPhone apps).

    115. Re:Define professionals? by jbolden · · Score: 1

      They took it out. The same way they dropped classic after a few years. It is part of apple culture to make developers keep up and not have 20 year old software running around.

    116. Re:Define professionals? by jbolden · · Score: 1

      OSX supports keyboards with more keys, that's a hardware choice.

      As for the only menu being on top.... Yeah that's a switch. The advantage is you can see what application is tied to your window manager as active with a glance. As an aside in Display item of system preference you can change behavior.

    117. Re:Define professionals? by drharris · · Score: 2

      The gesture interfaces are nicer, and the full-screen mode is great when you want to work in a terminal without distractions

      Yeah, even if that "distraction" happens to be a web browser on your second monitor so you can code web apps on a dual monitor setup. That "distraction" is gone now, and your second monitor now goes dark..gee how thoughtful of them. #1 reason I am not upgrading to Lion.

    118. Re:Define professionals? by jbolden · · Score: 1

      Huh? Many of my applications still take a long time to start while starting new windows in them is much faster.

      The problem isn't fixed.

    119. Re:Define professionals? by Jaxoreth · · Score: 2

      Reminds me what Jason Newsted said, when asked for his response to people saying Metallica had sold out: "Yeah we sold out. We sold out every arena we played for the last five years."

      It's sad, but true.

      Apple was the hero of the day, but now they only care about the ecstasy of gold and bleeding me dry, and nothing else matters.

      Oh well, at least the memory remains.

      --
      In general, it is safe and legal to kill your children. -- POSIX Programmer's Guide
    120. Re:Define professionals? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude you earned it. Your post is nothing but flamebait

      Replacing Keyboards... what is this the 90s? Warranty your crap. Frankenstein laptops are not cool.

      PCs are cheaper depends on your perspective. Studies exist to show that Mac users are less of a burden on IT Support departments. Less of a burden means that you can be laid off or outsourced. Sorry... its true

      Lenovo had never made a PC like that until recently. Apple goes for functional features as opposed to novel features. I don't want a laptop with tons of shady features. Nobody uses the tablet mode and the stylus because the laptop/tablet form-factor is just dumb.

      All your history crap? To prove what? Apple from 1980 is not the Apple of today.

    121. Re:Define professionals? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are a fat piece of shit mouth-breather. That is common knowledge.

    122. Re:Define professionals? by catmistake · · Score: 2

      if I could come up with a 'Hackintosh' with OS X, I'd be so happy,' claims one audio professional."

      Why the Hell would an audio professional complain? He has no valid grievance against Apple. Video pros, I understand their angst. But what did Apple ever do to wrong the audio pro? Mac OS X and the Mac it runs on is the least expensive and most versitile and essential tool in the audio pro's studio! Now... the audio pro might be pissy at Digidesign for one reason or another. But if they're upset about something in Logic... I suggest they try Ardour.

    123. Re:Define professionals? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It wrecked Samba for me. Half the time when saving files the end gets corrupted. It never happened prior to Lion.

    124. Re:Define professionals? by MaskedSlacker · · Score: 1

      I come here for INTELLIGENT comments

      That's your first mistake.

    125. Re:Define professionals? by toddestan · · Score: 1

      If the Mac really was about Fitt's Law, the windows would have a goddamn proper maximize button so I can make Fitt's Law apple to the scrollbars on the side and bottom of the screen. However, Apple doesn't do this. Granted, it's not as big deal nowadays with scroll wheels, but if I had a nickel for every time I under or overshot the scrollbars and clicked on something else on a Mac I'd be rich by now.

    126. Re:Define professionals? by Catnaps · · Score: 1

      Exactly. The RDF kicked into overdrive because that's what he did- he was a salesman. I'm so sick and tired of this "visionary" talk- he sold computers. He was really damned good at it, but at the end of the day, his job was to convince people to part with money. If that means making a U-turn on how good Intel CPUs are, then that's what'll be done while shifting the focus from "it's a supercomputer!" (lol) to "a better experience".

    127. Re:Define professionals? by Graff · · Score: 1

      when I click on a running app in the doc that has no open windows, the program doesn't do anything. It should, at that point, actually respond; open a new project, give me a file-open dialog box, anything but sit there looking pretty.

      Many applications do just what you're asking. Click on the Finder and if there aren't any open windows it will pop one open with your default directory. Click on Mail and if you don't have a mail browser window open then it will open one.

      It's an application-defined behavior and most of Apple's applications do something when they don't have an open window and their dock icon is clicked. Some 3rd party applications don't follow this UI principle and, yes, it's a shame when they don't.

      The other issue with this behavior is that it is not easy to tell at a glance to tell what programs are running.

      It is? All you have to do is glance over at the dock, everything that's running has a dot next to its icon. If that's not clear enough for you then you can always just clear out the non-running apps in your dock and only let the running apps show. Now EVERY app in the dock is a running app.

      If we're talking about applications with open windows (which is what would show up in the Windows' Taskbar) then just use Apple's Mission Control. Every running application will have its own group of windows, grouped with the icon for the application. It's quick and easy to see what's running and pick a window.

      Also remember that under Mac OS a running program that doesn't have any open windows doesn't need to use that many resources. It will stay in memory and possibly do some processing but if its resources are needed they can be reclaimed by the system and the application will be put in a suspended state, its memory will be paged out to disk, its running threads will be suspended or given a lower run priority, etc. Thus you can keep a lot of applications running in the background without windows and not worry that they'll slow you down much.

    128. Re:Define professionals? by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      I think you just jumped from UI design to internal software architecture.

      You'd already taken it there when you said "Also, leaving an application running without a UI is a perfectly reasonable idea". The notion of an application "running" in a way that it can be "quit" is an issue of internal software architecture. Consider a hypothetical system in which all threads of control run in the same address space and in which particular user-facing functions (simple text editing, source code editing, word processing, spreadsheet editing, Web browsing, viewing system settings, etc.) are implemented by subroutines/methods called in one of those threads of control. If, for example, a package of those subroutines/methods are assigned a virtual address at the time they're installed, and live there until they're uninstalled, what would it mean to "quit", say, a text editor? It wouldn't mean un-mapping the code that implemented the simple text editor, as that would only happen if you uninstalled it; it might mean "close all the windows for that text editor", but if you have compound documents and, for example, the text editor code is used in spreadsheet cells and text-entry fields and..., there might be a lot of "windows for that text editor" that didn't open as a result of opening a simple text document.

      There's absolutely no reason whatsoever the two should even be related.

      Arguably, no, there is no such reason - and whether an application is "running" or not should be completely transparent to the user, so that they should neither know nor care whether the system uses a Mac OS X-style model, a Windows/{most UN*X desktops other than the OS X one} model, the model I described above, etc.. In that world, you might not even have Task Manager/Activity Monitor/{whatever it's called in GNOME}/{whatever it's called in KDE}/etc. view showing running applications or processes, nothing in the Dock/system tray/whatever to indicate what's running, etc., although there might be some special "geek tool" to show whatever the appropriate information is.

      You can call the unix box thing whatever you like. What I care about is that I get a unix box where I know for a fact that all the hardware inside will work.

      Which has as much, if not more, to do with "Mac OS X being purpose-made to run on the machine" as "the machine being purpose-made for Mac OS X", much less "the machine being purpose-made to run Unix" (whatever that means, given the number of Un*xes out there; it's more "purpose-made to run Mac OS X" than "to run Unix", given the one-button trackpads and Command keys and so on). All the hardware inside will work because Apple will either write, or have the vendor write, or will co-develop with the vendor, Mac OS X drivers for it; it's not as if they choose hardware that "works with Unix", they choose hardware and then make it work with their Unix.

    129. Re:Define professionals? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      I have to click a button in the corner or hit escape. It made it much less efficient to use

      You can now swipe with four fingers on the trackpad to get in and out of dashboard, which I find means that I actually use dashboard regularly, for the first time since it was introduced.

      Why did they invert the mouse?

      Invert the mouse? They inverted the default scroll direction, but it's trivial to change it back by going in to system preferences.

      What's the point of launchpad?

      No idea. Dragged it from the dock, don't care about it. The dock or spotlight (only a command-space away) are faster ways of launching applications.

      Why did they make address book and ical look like "real" items. It's ugly and requires extra clicks to add calendar entries from different calendars

      I can't disagree there, but making iCal suck more isn't a new feature. With 10.5 they removed the tentative / confirmed flag in appointments, for example.

      The problem is that all the good apple and next people retired

      That's very true. Most of the people I respected at Apple are no longer there.

      GCD (libdispatch) is awesome

      It is, but it was introduced with 10.6 and is now fully supported on FreeBSD and mostly supported on Linux / Solaris. I didn't see any changes in the 10.7 documentation, but maybe they just forgot to update them.

      They have added some shiny things to the Objective-C runtime (now reimplemented in GNUstep libobjc, should be in the upcoming 1.6 release), but they didn't bother documenting any of them. imp_implementationFromBlock() is great, but not mentioned anywhere in the documentation.

      Another poster had a legitimate complaint about SMB support. They removed Samba, but their replacement sucks. For example, my printer can write to an SMB share - Windows or Samba - but it won't write to one that 10.7 exports, because 10.7 doesn't support the authentication mechanism that it wants to use.

      The lack of Rosetta is a bit irritating too, although about the only thing I used it for was to run some old games (no more Diablo II! I bought that game for Windows and the same CD worked on MacOS 9, Mac OS X all the way from 10.0 to 10.6).

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    130. Re:Define professionals? by boristhespider · · Score: 1

      :) That's exactly what I'd like. I'm fine with a menu bar at the top of the screen - it doesn't bother me much one way or the other so long as it's consistent. I just wish Apple would mirror it across the screens.

    131. Re:Define professionals? by Vegemeister · · Score: 1

      And to anyone who has multiple windows open at the same time instead of a single maximized window.
      And to anyone who has a large monitor. (Apple, in fact, sells a 2560x1440 all-in-one.)

      Mac users might not have so much difficulty getting their mouse pointer over the menus if OSX had a sensible mouse acceleration curve, instead of that godawful nonlinear monstrosity.

    132. Re:Define professionals? by Kamien · · Score: 1

      A small correction... It were actually Polish mathematicians - Marian Rejewski and Henryk Zygalski who broke the Enigma code in 1932. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marian_Rejewski Alan Turing based his Bombe design on the results of their work. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombe

    133. Re:Define professionals? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      I've never heard a Mac user complain about either one before. Personally I've been using mice since the Atari ST in 1987. Many computers, countless mice. And I've never noticed anything wrong with the mouse movement on OS X. Are you sure the problem isn't you?

      Oh sure, now you mention it, googling OS X mouse acceleration finds other people complaining. But that's the nature of the internet, whatever you look for you'll find. I mean, some people complain that overhead power lines give them headaches. But most people don't have that problem.

      For sane people, there's not a problem with the menu being at the top of a single window. Fit's Law makes it easy to hit, and mouse/trackpad acceleration means it's not far away.

    134. Re:Define professionals? by Rufty · · Score: 1

      On the Mac, the green button zooms the window to be big enough to see everything that's inside the window, and if you click it again it just returns to the size it was before.

      No, it doesn't. Open finder in a directory with lots of files, click the button, the window gets *smaller*. W.T.F???

      --
      Red to red, black to black. Switch it on, but stand well back.
    135. Re:Define professionals? by Maximum+Prophet · · Score: 1

      What does it sell for?

      Remember, most of your audience on slashdot does not do what you do. Where I work, some software is freeware, and some is licensed over $1,000,000 per year.

      --
      All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
    136. Re:Define professionals? by garethw · · Score: 1

      Apple and the guy who designed the logo have stated that it was not a tribute to Turing.

      --
      garethw
    137. Re:Define professionals? by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Really? Apple makes 90% of the profits in the computer world? That fact is about as solid as them being "popular" with single-digit market share. Redefining terms really doesn't help the case at all.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    138. Re:Define professionals? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Clearly he isn't referring to glorified tradesmen. He means proper creative people. You know, the kind who sit at Starbucks all day scratching their scraggy little beards and trying to overcome their writers' block by empathizing with lesbian dolphins.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    139. Re:Define professionals? by RatherBeAnonymous · · Score: 1

      when I click on a running app in the doc that has no open windows, the program doesn't do anything. It should, at that point, actually respond; open a new project, give me a file-open dialog box, anything but sit there looking pretty.

      Many applications do just what you're asking. Click on the Finder and if there aren't any open windows it will pop one open with your default directory. Click on Mail and if you don't have a mail browser window open then it will open one.

      It's an application-defined behavior and most of Apple's applications do something when they don't have an open window and their dock icon is clicked. Some 3rd party applications don't follow this UI principle and, yes, it's a shame when they don't.

      The other issue with this behavior is that it is not easy to tell at a glance to tell what programs are running.

      It is? All you have to do is glance over at the dock, everything that's running has a dot next to its icon. If that's not clear enough for you then you can always just clear out the non-running apps in your dock and only let the running apps show. Now EVERY app in the dock is a running app.

      If we're talking about applications with open windows (which is what would show up in the Windows' Taskbar) then just use Apple's Mission Control. Every running application will have its own group of windows, grouped with the icon for the application. It's quick and easy to see what's running and pick a window.

      Also remember that under Mac OS a running program that doesn't have any open windows doesn't need to use that many resources. It will stay in memory and possibly do some processing but if its resources are needed they can be reclaimed by the system and the application will be put in a suspended state, its memory will be paged out to disk, its running threads will be suspended or given a lower run priority, etc. Thus you can keep a lot of applications running in the background without windows and not worry that they'll slow you down much.

      Yes, the dots are a challenge for me. I have to scan the bar and count dots. I find that annoying. I much prefer an OS that clearly groups icons. I tend to hyper-focus on what I'm doing and get annoyed by distractions like having to examine icons for dots when I realize I have too many apps open and have to shut them down. There is also that fact that as I get older and more nearsighted I am finding it harder and harder to pick out these details quickly on a computer screen.

    140. Re:Define professionals? by RatherBeAnonymous · · Score: 1

      Fixed, no, but did you every use an original mac? They were woefully underpowered for the graphical UI. Amazing machines for their day, but they were slow.

    141. Re:Define professionals? by RatherBeAnonymous · · Score: 1

      If a program has something useful to do in the background than it should be implemented as a light-weight daemon, rather than a full blown app like iTunes.

      A demon, by definition, is a background task with no UI. Yet a music player needs a UI. That isn't the same thing as having a window. OSX makes that distinction at the fundamental level. Windows doesn't, and Linux UIs typically follow Windows even when it's broken.

      OK, you are right about Daemons not having UI's. But windows does make a distinction. There are services that run in the background. There are apps that run in the system tray and provide a light-weight UI. You can always just minimize your music player when you are listening to music. Also, windows apps can be programmed to not shut down when the last window is closed and instead take residence in the system tray. My question is, why does a music player have to run all the time even when y aren't playing music? Is it to watch for system events or to download updates in the background? Those tasks are better suited for a daemon or a scheduled event.

    142. Re:Define professionals? by RatherBeAnonymous · · Score: 1

      Mac applications act this way due to legacy decisions made for the original circa 1984 Mac, not because it's the right way to do things. At the time, it took the Mac a long time to start applications. Apple decided on this behavior to make the computer more responsive when opening new documents. Now days, document open much more quickly and this behavior is no longer required.

      Fine if you have a brand new high spec Mac. But I've got a 2008 MacBook, upgraded to Lion. I've just timed reopening xcode (with a single project and the organizer open). It took 9 seconds. Pages took 7 seconds.

      And of course if you don't have it in the dock, you need to add the time taken to find the app in to apps folder or Launchpad.

      And what't the benefit to closing when the last window closes? You potentially save a a space in the dock. and... No, that's it. Vitual memory means that memory consumption isn't really an issue.

      Mac OS does it be right way.

      Note that new OS designs on phones and tablets tend to not close apps either. They only get closed when lack of resources demand it. And then the OS does it's best to hide the fact that it was closed by restarting in the exact same state.

      Windows (and the way Linux GUIs copy it) are a suboptimal way. It always was, and it still is. It's just that because of market share most people are used to that way and consider it normal.

      9 and 7 seconds are not a long time to start a program and load a file. I remember apps on old Mac System taking upwards of 30 seconds to start and load a file.

      And since you brought up phones, I have a Nexus One. When I got it it would go about 1.5 days on a charge. Then I installed an application to kill background apps. Now the phone goes easily 2.5 days and is generally more responsive.

    143. Re:Define professionals? by telekon · · Score: 1

      The interface changes were the 'in two minutes' gut-level issues that made me hesitate before upgrading. The reason I'm glad I waited is that shortly thereafter a number of incompatibility issues came up online with libraries I have to use day to day, most notably Oracle client drivers.

      --

      To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion.

    144. Re:Define professionals? by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1
      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    145. Re:Define professionals? by laffer1 · · Score: 1

      The system preference for changing the mouse does not appear with the Microsoft mouse driver installed. If I were to use an apple mouse, I would not have that problem but i'd also not be able to play first person shooters. (you can't right click and left click at the same time on a mighty mouse or similar)

      I wish they would have kept rosetta for people stuck on a 32bit kernel. I have a first generation Mac Pro and it doesn't boot the 64bit kernel because the EFI setup only works with 32bit from what i've read. I've got a stack of games that no longer work including Starcraft, Diablo II and Age of Empires II. Luckily, with the recent steam port to OS X and starcraft II I still have something to do on my Mac.

      The libdispatch mailing list is rather interesting. I've been on it for a few months and they've been discussing some of the new features and progress on ports to Linux, Solaris and Windows. The Apple employees on that list are very helpful. As for FreeBSD, I think they missed a nice opportunity to ship llvm + clang with libobjc2 and libdispatch. They recently pulled objective c from base. All of this is available in ports, but it's not the same. Robert Watson did a good job with the original libdispatch port though.

    146. Re:Define professionals? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      As for FreeBSD, I think they missed a nice opportunity to ship llvm + clang with libobjc2 and libdispatch. They recently pulled objective c from base

      I discussed including libobjc2 in base some people in the FreeBSD team, but there isn't much point of it by itself - it really needs a Foundation implementation to be useful. GCC libobjc was pulled because it is GPL'd. The 4.2.1 version is GPLv2 and the exemption only applies to code compiled with GCC. More recent versions are GPLv3, but the exemption applies to any compiler. Since 4.2.1 can't be used with clang and newer ones can't go in the base system, it got kicked out. If you want to use Objective-C with FreeBSD, then you need some stuff from ports anyway, but now you don't need to install a compiler because the clang in FreeBSD 9 can handle pretty much anything that OS X 10.7 / iOS 5 can in terms of the language. I know someone who's working on a permissively licensed Foundation implementation, using FreeBSD-specific features at the expense of portability, so it may end up in the base system at some point...

      Having libdispatch in the base system would be nice, but it's the kind of thing that will probably stay in ports unless it's added as a base system as a dependency.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    147. Re:Define professionals? by Vegemeister · · Score: 1

      The last time I used a Mac, the only way to increase the mouse sensitivity was to change the acceleration. By the time you had it turned up high enough to cross the screen without picking up your elbow, pointer_velocity(mouse_velocity) was basically a step function. The result is that once you move the mouse faster than some threshold velocity the pointer leaps into motion.

      Your Fitts' law argument ignores the critical step of shifting mental focus from the application window to the desktop. In the case of multiple windows open at the same time, it also ignores the step of clicking inside the window you intend to address to shift the window manager's focus.

    148. Re:Define professionals? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      "The last time I used a Mac"

      In other words you're not a Mac user. So what the fuck do you know? The acceleration was different from what you're used to that's all. Not wrong but different.

      Your description of what the Mac mouse acceleration is simply isn't true. At least mot with an Apple mouse. Perhaps the person who's Mac you used had a non-Mac mouse with it's own acceleration tuned to something freaky. Or perhaps the mouse acceleration you are used to on your Linux setup is the freaky one.

      "Your Fitts' law argument ignores the critical step of shifting mental focus from the application window to the desktop"

      What the fuck has the desktop got to do with it? Focus shifts from the window client area to the menu, whatever OS you're on. If anything that's easier on the Mac because the Menu is always in the same position.

      You're whining about something you don't even use. And that's the only reason it seems odd to you. You're just used to something different. You're used to a GUI that is a bad copy of Windows.

    149. Re:Define professionals? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      9 and 7 seconds are not a long time to start a program and load a file.

      It's better than 30 seconds. It's a whole lot worse than zero seconds.

      And since you brought up phones, I have a Nexus One. When I got it it would go about 1.5 days on a charge. Then I installed an application to kill background apps. Now the phone goes easily 2.5 days and is generally more responsive.

      Which is why the iPhone doesn't multi-task. It keeps a background app in memory, if there is space, so that going back to it wastes no no time on loading. But background apps do not do any processing of their own. Best of both worlds.

    150. Re:Define professionals? by laffer1 · · Score: 1

      Is the Foundation implementation under development hosted publicly yet? I'd be interested in looking at that.

      Thanks for the information about libobjc licensing.

    151. Re:Define professionals? by jbolden · · Score: 1

      Yeah about 90% of the profits from system sales. That's not the same as computer world.

      And share can be looked at lots of ways. Share by units, share by dollars, share by profits are standards.

    152. Re:Define professionals? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Drop me a mail - I think it's public but I don't have the address on hand. I'll put you in touch with the guy who's working on it.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    153. Re:Define professionals? by jbolden · · Score: 1

      Yes I did actually. Though that's not what grandparent was talking about. They were loading data off a floppy and they ran one application at a time mostly.

    154. Re:Define professionals? by Stupendoussteve · · Score: 1

      There are numerous third party authorized service centers who will come to you. Because they are authorized they have the factory parts and tools, and the warranty is respected, just like if you sent it in to Apple. Going to the Apple Store or calling the number is not the only option.

    155. Re:Define professionals? by smash · · Score: 1

      64gb of ECC RAM would cost more than 5k by itself.

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
    156. Re:Define professionals? by smash · · Score: 1

      If you buy the full sized apple keyboard (wired) it has all the keys, and more besides. Or plug in a third party keyboard, or get a wireless third party keyboard. Only the laptop and wireless keyboards are missing the keys and thats due to the small size - the wireless keyboard is the same as a laptop keyboard.

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
    157. Re:Define professionals? by smash · · Score: 1

      Agreed, on a multi-monitor setup, it sucks. But, after a while of going back from multi-monitor setups to the ability to use multiple desktops so easily, i'm not so sure of the value of multi monitor setups anymore, for what i do (and i've been a multi monitor user since 1999).

      One big monitor with enough real estate works out better.

      I have a multi monitor setup with my macbook pro at home, and find myself using one screen constantly.

      So, plan is to just buy a big 27" thunderbolt display and be done with it.

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
    158. Re:Define professionals? by smash · · Score: 1

      You've got really no idea what sort of stuff xcode does, do you?

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
    159. Re:Define professionals? by smash · · Score: 1

      Its the apple mice. The sensititvity doesn't go very high. Plug in a logitech and the situation changes. Also, lion appears to accelerate the apple mice more.

      Don't care myself anymore anyway, i'm addicted to the trackpad and guestures.

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
    160. Re:Define professionals? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      I mentioned the system tray in the first post to which you answered. It's fine for the purpose for which it's intended - background services which need a limited UI. But it's not suitable for somewhere to put normal applications once the last window is closed. Take my example of closing one document, then going to File|Open to open the next. If that File|Open is on a pop-up menu from a small icon in the system tray, then that's completely non-standard and non-intuitive for the user. Are there really any mainstream document applications that do that kludge? I suspect or at least hope not.

      If you really need further convincing, consider this: Microsoft only does it the way they do because they feared following the Mac UI too closely for fear of being sued. Thats the reason menus are attached to Windows, not because it's better. And the automatic quitting when the last window closes is a symptom of that decision.

      Remember when Microsoft came up with the Multiple Document Interface (MDI) concept? They were keen on the idea for a while, then dropped it. It's intended purpose was to fix this very problem I've described. To keep the application open, with a standard interface, even when the last document was closed. And also to save space by having a single menu for all the documents. MDI was an attempt to be more Mac like. Microsoft knew the Mac way was better. But they had to abandon it because it made things MORE complicated for users. It wasn't the simple and elegant method the Mac uses afterall. It only applied to a single application, ordinary users didn't understand the concept of nested windows, and it didn't work well with the taskbar.

      Incidentally theres a similar story on the operation of menus. Mac has pull down menus. Windows, just to be different from the Mac has drop down menus. Drop down menus are a nuisance when you are wanting to do something somewhere near a menu and you overshoot, and the thing you wanted to click on is covered up. It then involves moving away from the area again and retrying.

      A lot of the interface elements people think of as being normal/natural they are just used to because Windows does them that way. And very often they are not that way because it's the best way, but for legal reasons or follow on's from earlier bad decisions.

    161. Re:Define professionals? by atlasdropperofworlds · · Score: 1

      Actually his post was quite reasonable. Yours, on the otherhand, reeks of troll.

      BTW, I've supported mixed mac/pc departments, and when it really came down to it, no one really needed much support. Mind you, that's probably what you get when you have a group of software developers. Lately there are a ton of Win7 PC and Macs, and the only time I've spent on support is ordering new systems for new hires, or other equipment we need.

    162. Re:Define professionals? by atlasdropperofworlds · · Score: 1

      > The difference is OS X kicks WIndows' ass for navigation and integration with software.

      What does this mean?

    163. Re:Define professionals? by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      They removed Samba, but their replacement sucks. For example, my printer can write to an SMB share - Windows or Samba - but it won't write to one that 10.7 exports, because 10.7 doesn't support the authentication mechanism that it wants to use.

      So why would a printer (in the sense of "a device with a toner cartridge, a paper path, and a laser that writes to a selenium-coated roller") need to write to an SMB share? Or are you talking about an SMB client talking to your printer?

      If it's really writing to an SMB share, hopefully Apple's new SMB server gets open-sourced at some point, so the people who actually want LM or other crufty old easily-crackable authentication mechanism, or can't be bothered implementing NTLMSSP, can go backport them and work with crappy old SMB implementations (and so that vendors of printers and NAS boxes who don't want GPLed code in their devices can use a server over which Apple and the rest of the community have at least some influence, rather than some random lump of software whose interaction with {pick your client} ends up needing an additional pile of debugging).

      If it's talking to an SMB client, the client's been open-source for a while, so if you need to enable crufty old authentication mechanisms, you can.

    164. Re:Define professionals? by arth1 · · Score: 1

      Last I checked, Xcode was a single-window IDE that limits the user to doing one thing at a time, and small enough that a start-up time of 7-9 seconds can only be due to extremely bad design.
      Or are you talking about a different program with the same name?

    165. Re:Define professionals? by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      And since you brought up phones, I have a Nexus One. When I got it it would go about 1.5 days on a charge. Then I installed an application to kill background apps. Now the phone goes easily 2.5 days and is generally more responsive.

      So what exactly is it that a background app needs to do when it's not presenting a UI that causes it to consume any system resources whatsoever?

    166. Re:Define professionals? by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      ...had a...curve...instead of that...nonlinear monstrosity

      You might want to look up "linear". (Yes, I know, a line is a special case of a curve....)

    167. Re:Define professionals? by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      If that means making a U-turn on how good Intel CPUs are, then that's what'll be done while shifting the focus from "it's a supercomputer!" (lol) to "a better experience".

      For better or worse, what most users see is probably "the experience", not "the instruction set". One advantage of the switch to Intel is that Apple can't use "ZOMG WE'RE POWERPC RISC SO WE RULE AND X86 CISC DROOLS LOL" as a marketing point.

    168. Re:Define professionals? by goarilla · · Score: 1

      Huh, when i google memory ecc prices i'm getting convinced of the opposite.

    169. Re:Define professionals? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      So why would a printer (in the sense of "a device with a toner cartridge, a paper path, and a laser that writes to a selenium-coated roller") need to write to an SMB share?

      Because it can read PDFs from the SMB share and print them and can scan documents and save them as PDFs on SMB (and FTP) shares.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    170. Re:Define professionals? by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      Nothing's any good if other people like it!

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    171. Re:Define professionals? by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      I had the same comment to make, thank you for making it so well. Also, what do they mean no non glossy screens? The 30" is still sold and is definitely not glossy. Perhaps the creative professionals need to spend the money on professional hardware, instead of iMacs?

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    172. Re:Define professionals? by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      Now admit it -- you're new here, and took the summary as being accurate, right? ;)

      Half of that is correct.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    173. Re:Define professionals? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, and Apple is still failing to do it.

    174. Re:Define professionals? by Vegemeister · · Score: 1

      Nonlinear as opposed to sensible, rather than curve.

    175. Re:Define professionals? by gullevek · · Score: 1

      no, it does not?

      It fits the window to the size of the contents.

      --
      "Freiheit ist immer auch die Freiheit des Andersdenkenden" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1871 - 1919
    176. Re:Define professionals? by optimism · · Score: 1

      Replacing Keyboards... what is this the 90s? Warranty your crap. Frankenstein laptops are not cool.

      If you think it's "cool" to own a disposable laptop, and take it to the Apple store where a "genius" will take several days to "fix" it for you under warranty, and then you can throw it away when your warranty expires, that is your consumer prerogative.

      Keyboard errors are the most common laptop failure. This is not surprising when you consider that there are about 100 precision switches in your keyboard.

      Failures aside, sometimes you want a brand-new keyboard for aesthetic reasons. There is nothing "Frankenstein" about replacing a laptop keyboard with a new OEM keyboard. For our Latitudes and Thinkpads, I keep spare keyboards on the shelf in case a key starts sticking (this has happened several times over the years), or the trackpoint or mouse buttons wear out (hasn't happened, but the buttons can get noisier/squeakier with age), or the keys just get too shiny. New keyboards cost about $30 for a Latitude, and $50 for a Thinkpad, on ebay.

      Our household also has a MacBook that we use for Final Cut. Based on my experience with the MBP, I am not looking forward to the day when I have to replace the keyboard.

      Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the impression that you are a "1 laptop" or "1 laptop + 1 desktop" kind of consumer, probably with no family/kids, so you don't have much experience maintaining a small fleet of computers. Believe me, the Macs are a PITA to maintain compared to the others.

      Studies exist to show that Mac users are less of a burden on IT Support departments. Less of a burden means that you can be laid off or outsourced. Sorry... its true

      I've never worked in an IT department. Have you? I have, however, managed several dozen Macs and PCs for my own use over the years. My comments are based on personal experience with those machines.

      Lenovo had never made a PC like that until recently. Apple goes for functional features as opposed to novel features. I don't want a laptop with tons of shady features. Nobody uses the tablet mode and the stylus because the laptop/tablet form-factor is just dumb.

      My X60t is a 5-year old design, not exactly "recent".

      The 3-button trackpoint dates back the first Thinkpads about 20 years ago...around the same time that Apple was releasing the first PowerBooks (which btw were my choice of laptops for most of the 1990s).

      Mobile graphic designers/illustrators are among the many folks who would disagree with your irrational judgement that a high-precision, pressure-sensitive, active stylus tablet is "dumb".

      You have obviously never owned one of these machines.

      All your history crap? To prove what?

      If you can stretch your attention span back more than one post...I was replying to a post that said Apple had always catered to the consumer.

      This is simply not true. For most of Apple's history, they catered to the technophile, or the high-level executive, or higher education, or the creative professional (the point of this article). The consumer focus only started with the iMac and iBook in 1998/1999, i.e., less than 1/3 of Apple's lifetime.

      Now, get off my lawn. :)

    177. Re:Define professionals? by jclarke · · Score: 1

      Bzzt. Try again.

      http://www.crucial.com/store/mpartspecs.aspx?mtbpoid=60826169A5CA7304

      That's, as of this posting, $339.99 for two 8GB DDR3 ECC DIMMS for the current-generation Mac Pro. To get to your precious 64G goal, you'd buy four of those two-dimm bundles which would total $1359.96 before taxes and shipping. And that's prices a well-known seller, without whatever coupons might be offered. I'm sure there's a newegg deal or something that'd make it even less. But that's "retail" right there. A far cry from your claimed "more than 5k by itself."

    178. Re:Define professionals? by RatherBeAnonymous · · Score: 1

      I don't recall Microsoft's MDI, so I can't comment on it. Look, you aren't going to convince me, and I'm not going to convince you of which interface is better. And I don't want to. Truthfully, both have major issues and we could both go on all day about bad UI design in any platform. The interface you see as elegant and simple I see as over simplified and over reliant on cutesy icons. I need readable text and a program menu, dammit!

      I agree with you that so many things in modern interfaces is based on earlier bad decisions. Which is why I can't use KDE. Every time I look at it I get depressed. I much preferred Gnome 2. I also like Mac System's interface a better than early versions of windows. But as much as it is a mistake to continually recommit the same bad decisions, it's worse to change things for the sake of change, breaking all the learned behaviors that users have been trained to expect for the past 20+ years. If you are going to do that, it had better be a significant improvement, and not some inconsequential improvement. I don't see OS X as a big enough improvement. It is an improvement over it's predecessors in many respects, but it also has some regressions, which are inevitable when you try to reinvent the wheel.

    179. Re:Define professionals? by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      This is MDI: http://learn.uparea.tk/mfcfundamentals/lessons/images/MDI1.gif
      Ot continued all the way to Vista: http://www.syncfusion.com/content/en-US/products/feature/user-interface-edition/windows-forms/grid/img/windows-forms-grid-MDI.jpg

      Is it still ongoing? I don't know.

      The application is a virtual desktop for multiple document windows. And that means just one menu, near the top of the screen in the common case of maximising. One menu for several document windows, rather then one menu per Window. A halfway house towards the Mac way. Microsoft shipped their apps like this for years, and encouraged other Windows developers to do so too.

      As to "cutsey icons", I think that says more about your misconceptions than anything about OS X. Here's a typical screen show showing Apple's iWork office suite in action. The only "cutsey" icons are app icons. The in app icons are work-a-day.
      http://macamour.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/iworklove.png
      For sure Apple apps have pretty app icons. But that's hardly a negative.

    180. Re:Define professionals? by gumbi+west · · Score: 1

      Your not talking about change but about customization. Customization is the enemy of tight design. Every modular bit needs a holder and a receiver, each of which add weight and bulk. Solder it in and put it in the case and you get lots of option as to shape, location, ...

  2. Creators, as opposed to Consumers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The people PRODUCING content.

  3. Only glossy screens? by mosb1000 · · Score: 5, Informative

    You can buy a macbook pro with an "antiglare" screen.

    1. Re:Only glossy screens? by Osgeld · · Score: 1

      ok where are you going to plug your 40 channel sound card in?

    2. Re:Only glossy screens? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Expresscard slot, firewire 800 port.

      I'm sitting here on a MBP with a non-glossy screen that has a 36 channel sound card hooked up.

      I see no issue here.

    3. Re:Only glossy screens? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wish facebook had a like button. Macbooks are great for audio work.

    4. Re:Only glossy screens? by beelsebob · · Score: 1

      More importantly – thunderbolt port.

    5. Re:Only glossy screens? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought Facebook invented that button..

    6. Re:Only glossy screens? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why do you need an "antiglare" screen for audio work?

    7. Re:Only glossy screens? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      right you gonna work all day on a 15" or 17" monitor? good luck

    8. Re:Only glossy screens? by mosb1000 · · Score: 2

      But if you're going to buy an external monitor, there are plenty of matte screens available. You don't need to buy it from apple.

    9. Re:Only glossy screens? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You fail it. Facebook has that button, Slashdot doesn't, this is Slashdot.

    10. Re:Only glossy screens? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They're referring to desktops. They no longer offer a 27-30" that's not glossy. RTFA.

    11. Re:Only glossy screens? by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 0

      For the same reason they don't wear a helmut with the blast shield down, doofus,

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    12. Re:Only glossy screens? by CheerfulMacFanboy · · Score: 1

      Why do you need an "antiglare" screen for audio work?

      In case you work with a star?

      --
      Fandroids hate facts.
    13. Re:Only glossy screens? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunately the antiglare screens are both overpriced and of poor quality (various image defects, dust particles stuck behind the glass, etc)

    14. Re:Only glossy screens? by mosb1000 · · Score: 0

      They do, however, make desktops without a built in display. It seems more like they are complaining that not everything they build is available with a matte screen. That seems a little whiny to me.

    15. Re:Only glossy screens? by bonch · · Score: 1

      The Firewire/ExpressCard port. Duh?

    16. Re:Only glossy screens? by Zadaz · · Score: 1

      There are also people who will sell you hackintoshes built to spec.

      So, you know, nothing to see here.

      I know dozens of people who use Apples professionally for audio, video, photography, development, whatever. None of them are thinking about jumping ship in the near future. The only legitimate complaint is the Final Cut Pro upgrade, but at least Apple even has allowed purchasers to go back to the previous version.

    17. Re:Only glossy screens? by shadowsurfr1 · · Score: 1

      Not to mention that you can hook it up to just about any external screen.

    18. Re:Only glossy screens? by Osgeld · · Score: 1

      yea thats what I want, a nice slim laptop with a bunch of fragile dongles to drag around with me

    19. Re:Only glossy screens? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My Dell Inspiron laptop came with a 40 channel sound card, 32 USB ports, 16 Firewire ports, a 16 channel RAID card, and redundant power supplies built-in. And it's not that heavy, either (only 23 lbs). It's a small price to pay for not having to carry around a bunch of dongles.

    20. Re:Only glossy screens? by makomk · · Score: 1

      Only if you're willing to either get laptop-grade performance or pay for workstation-grade hardware, and pretty much no-one actually needs workstation-grade hardware. High-end consumer/gaming gear is more than good enough performance-wise.

    21. Re:Only glossy screens? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is an article about professional computer users. Why wouldn't professional users use work station class hardware?

    22. Re:Only glossy screens? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yea because having a glossy screen is totally the equivalent of making you blind.

    23. Re:Only glossy screens? by dontmakemethink · · Score: 1

      Where would I plug in my other two monitors? I don't even do video and I use three for audio. Apparently I could install OS X on my i7 but it's about the last thing I would ever do. iTunes takes an 85% cut of music sales unless you're signed to an RIAA label, fucking indie vultures that they are, and they expect me to buy their software? I wouldn't be caught dead with an iPod, much less a Mac.

      Yes they're driving pros away, their entry-level tower starts at $2500 and gets its ass handed to it by $700 i7 2600K based PC, which can run OS X too, and completely disgraces your MBP.

      --

      War as we knew it was obsolete
      Nothing could beat complete denial
      - Emily Haines
    24. Re:Only glossy screens? by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      Apparently I could install OS X on my i7 but it's about the last thing I would ever do. iTunes takes an 85% cut of music sales unless you're signed to an RIAA label, fucking indie vultures that they are, and they expect me to buy their software? I wouldn't be caught dead with an iPod, much less a Mac.

      Apple takes a 30% cut. The rest of the 70% goes to the music industry. The 30/70 split has been around forever, and it's why Apple pretty much incorporates it everywhere.

      If you're only getting 15 cents from every 99 cent song sold, you should talk to your label to find out where that extra 55 cents are going. In fact, 15 cents is pretty good from what I've seen after all the hands are stuffed - your RIAA label gives less than that (9 cents or less).

      Though I think there were the likes of CDBaby and such that give back like 50 cents or more.

    25. Re:Only glossy screens? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, the article mentions this. They say the following:

      Detailed editing work is made more difficult, experts say, when there are multiple reflections onscreen, with editors complaining they want to focus on the work, not their own image. Oddly, only the 15in and 17in versions of the MacBook Pro come with options for an anti-glare screen – at a £120 premium. Even the images on Apple’s store show distracting glare across the screens of its glossy iMac displays.

      I don't see any iMacs with anti-glare screen. Or a monitor for that matter.
      It might not have been in the summary here, but it was definitely in the article.

    26. Re:Only glossy screens? by thetinguy · · Score: 1

      I am using one right now, ands it's great.

    27. Re:Only glossy screens? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You cannot buy an iMac with an "antiglare" screen.

    28. Re:Only glossy screens? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but only starting at 15" :(

      I did buy this model, but I would have preferred buying a 13" model.

      I think with the loss of Steve Jobs apple is facing the normal problems of change in leadership and I doubt apple will ever be anything similar it once was. I think apple passed its peak.

    29. Re:Only glossy screens? by cbope · · Score: 1

      Hardly. Please check the specs, you have to go for the $1799 15-inch "upgrade" model before anti-glare becomes an option. In the base 15" model it's not available and it's completely off the table for the 13" MBP's. The Airs are also missing the anti-glare option.

      It's kind of ironic, on the MBP specs page it says the 13" MBP is "the high performance notebook for everyone"... well, it's certainly NOT for me since I can't stand glossy screens on a notebook. Apple pushed me away from the 11.6" Air because of a lack of an anti-glare screen, I bought an 11.6" Lenovo instead which was available with anti-glare.

      The lack of anti-glare is particularly harsh for small notebooks and netbooks, which by their design are more likely to be carried everywhere and even, shockingly.... used outdoors! This is where a glossy screen is the worst possible option. It's also why I will not buy a laptop with a glossy screen, nor will I buy glossy desktop screens. It was actually challenging to find a couple decent sized non-glossy screens for home use when I went shopping for them last fall. In the end I found 2 very good screens, but the vast majority were glossy. Let's not even get started on the whole 16:9 aspect thing... in fact we could just pile all the glossy and 16:9 screens together and have a huge environmentally-unfriendly bonfire and I would be happy!

    30. Re:Only glossy screens? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but professionals hardly sit around in front of a laptop. We are talking about individuals who spend 3-4 hours a day trying to fix a small blemish under the eyebrow of a model while ensuring that the adjusted skin tones are perfectly in sync with the other photographs going out in a set to production.

      Is there a non glossy option on any of the imacs ? - NO.
      Is there non glossy apple cinema display ? NO

      The dell ultrasharps are way better for this.

    31. Re:Only glossy screens? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This doesn't apply to the 13" though, which is the best one, of course!

  4. Don't get it by bryan1945 · · Score: 1

    Apple has always been more of a consumer company, but it did provide some top notch Pro tools in the A/V field. From TFA, it seems they are abandoning that top-tier niche with lesser tools. Can't Apple have a division that works only on top-notch pro tools? I'm an Apple guy (I like it, I have no special needs for Windows only software), but if Apple doesn't reverse a trend of alienating a group (albeit a small group) of previously staunch supporters, could this be a first step to Apple losing what professional footprint it does have?

    --
    Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
    1. Re:Don't get it by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      Apple has always been more of a consumer company, but it did provide some top notch Pro tools in the A/V field. From TFA, it seems they are abandoning that top-tier niche with lesser tools. Can't Apple have a division that works only on top-notch pro tools? I'm an Apple guy (I like it, I have no special needs for Windows only software), but if Apple doesn't reverse a trend of alienating a group (albeit a small group) of previously staunch supporters, could this be a first step to Apple losing what professional footprint it does have?

      I think it comes down to how much money each group makes - does a selection of lesser-featured apps that covers usage from the mid-range amateur to the mid-range professional bring in more profit than two different selections of apps (and two development teams) each targeted to the amateur/consumer and the professional?

      Does having two different products on the market make sense when the high end one is significant amounts of money and not bought in huge quantities?

      I don't know Apples sales figures for Final Cut, so I couldn't speculate more - but to me thats what the thinking boils down to.

    2. Re:Don't get it by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I suspect that certain characteristics of the "Professional" market(notably the ones where it overlaps most strongly with the "IT" market) are a poor fit for Apple, so they will, indeed, be very temped to ditch them as time goes on.

      The high end of the "Pro" market is touchy because they tend to depend on fairly large tangles of interconnected products: If asked "what do you use?" they might say "Final Cut"; but they actually mean "Final cut, two dozen specialized plugins, one or more boutique hardware components for capture or output, some sort of storage backend, possibly some in-house custom tools...".

      One of Apple's strengths, particularly of late, has bee their ability(and willingness) to just pick up and say "fuck everybody who thinks some legacy feature/interface/API is good enough. As of today, it is the new shiny or nothing!"(see ADB, Adobe/64-bit Carbon, Final Cut Pro, etc.). Combined with some good taste, this has worked very well in the consumer and low-end "prosumer" markets. By largely ignoring legacy issues and expecting people to keep up or suck it up, they've been able to maintain a pretty aggressive release schedule for new and interesting features with a comparatively small engineering team. However, that is absolutely incompatible with the requirements of more esoteric professional environments(along with institutional IT, their less colorful but considerably larger counterparts). You just can't keep a spaghetti ecosystem of critical 3rd party hardware and software moving that fast, at least not at a price anybody is willing to pay.(Even fairly basic things, like supporting pro-level video cards, can be pretty dire, despite the fact that Mac Pro is more PC-like than it has ever been. The default options suck to an almost comical degree, and driver support for anything else is atrocious.)

      For consumer and prosumer requirements, where it is much more likely that the integrated hardware and a small number of common software packages are enough, Apple's approach works just fine. It seems unlikely, though, that they can reconcile that with the requirements of the more specialized users. And, now that they have a big, lucrative, consumer market, their incentive to try isn't what it once might have been.

    3. Re:Don't get it by RoFLKOPTr · · Score: 2

      I'm an Apple guy (I like it, I have no special needs for Windows only software), but if Apple doesn't reverse a trend of alienating a group (albeit a small group) of previously staunch supporters, could this be a first step to Apple losing what professional footprint it does have?

      I'm a Windows guy, and I've always hated most Apple things I've come into contact with. But I'm also a professional in the video production and broadcast industry... and Final Cut Studio has always been the best A/V production suite in existence. I've used Adobe CS, Vegas, EDIUS, and several I can't remember the names of... Adobe takes second place, but it was still nowhere near as good as Final Cut. Now that Final Cut has been ruined, Apple and I are breaking up for good.

    4. Re:Don't get it by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      Your analysis seems pretty reasonable. The big problem I see with this approach is that Apple has always been a boom and bust company. Their popularity goes in waves. With their old system, they had a group of people that had invested huge amounts of money in their infrastructure, and would have had a huge problem moving away from their Macs. Consumers are more fickle. If Apple goes out of style again, they won't have a locked in user base to get them through the lean times. Given the size of their current profits, it seem short sighted for them to kick their safety net to the curb.

    5. Re:Don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Can't Apple have a division that works only on top-notch pro tools?"
      They DO

    6. Re:Don't get it by foniksonik · · Score: 1

      Why are drivers such an issue? If its worth the while why not band together and hire a developer or two to write the code you need?

      --
      A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
    7. Re:Don't get it by Rich0 · · Score: 2

      Isn't Apple's whole marketing strategy to make a platform that "just works" - as soon as you start talking about having people code their own drivers you might as well go with either windows (where EVERYTHING has a driver from the vendor), or linux (which is FOSS). Especially if you couple it with the software missing features you need in the first place.

    8. Re:Don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With the new thunderbolt, you could take internal video/audio capture or engine processing external, multi-platform. You wouldn't really need a 80lb aircraft / space shuttle grade aluminium computer tower. Besides those using analog video input and REALLY need to do it should have the budget and customer base to afford it. Otherwise they are capturing digital. Importing VHS/hi8 home movies is not a valid concern, those videos will be as unwatched on a hard drive as they are on tape.

    9. Re:Don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its very simple it is a matter of 'done' or not. A business that buys a computer. Will want to use it for a minimum of 5-30 years (yes that long). Just depends on how fast they depreciate the capital expense.

      So a turn over of hardware every 2-3 years would mean a 100% turnover of capital expense. Eventually some bean counter will go 'why the hell are we replacing perfectly good working hardware'. Other managers will go 'this system works what do i get out of the new one that I do not have now and will not eat into my budget to get new stuff done?'. For both of those questions you get crickets sounds out of Apple.

      Apple has done this for as long as it has been around. The wintel solution you actually have a semi decent shot of running software that was bought back int he 80s. That software still works. It does exactly the job it was written to do. You do not have that as much in the Apple world.

      Businesses do not think in terms of 1-3 years with their physical assets. They think in decades.

    10. Re:Don't get it by jbolden · · Score: 1

      Well written post. It is absolutely true that Apple doesn't allow for layering on their advanced stuff. Being a developer for Apple requires constant upgrading and for a chain of products that is impossible.

      Ironically since Chen left Microsoft they've gotten less interested in legacy support as well. They are becoming more like Apple (though the difference is still fast). No question Windows is going to become the main platform for that sort of layering but it might end up being impossible in Windows as well. Interesting possible niche for Linux which is excellent on the complex layering and about maintaining old APIs.

    11. Re:Don't get it by jbolden · · Score: 1

      The pro multimedia market isn't a safety net for a company the size of Apple. Especially with Apple's margins. If Apple goes out of style they find new markets or they end up in dozens of niches not just 10- and have to rethink the business entirely to fit those niches.

    12. Re:Don't get it by jonwil · · Score: 1

      Even if you have the specs (as is the case for some of the ATI GPUs), writing a video card driver on OSX seems very hard.
      Its probably even harder than doing it for Windows (where you cant support OpenGL in your driver without special crap that Microsoft wont give to just anyone and/or charges lots of money for.

  5. I have never understood by Osgeld · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Why "professionals" love this moving target apple presents, its nothing new and it seems like every time apple farts you have to reinvest in all new software and sometimes hardware. Just doesn't seem "professional" to me ...

    1. Re:I have never understood by Paul+Slocum · · Score: 2

      It's because they infiltrate and dominate all of the colleges that produce creative professionals. Any art/design school basically requires you to have a Mac, and as a result, almost every art/design job requires a Mac.

    2. Re:I have never understood by ColdWetDog · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's because they infiltrate and dominate all of the colleges that produce creative professionals. Any art/design school basically requires you to have a Mac, and as a result, almost every art/design job requires a Mac.

      BS. I recently financed my stepson's education at Vancouver Institute of Media Arts, a fairly well known "art/design" school. We went up to the campus, looked around. Lots and lots of Windows. A couple of Macs in the corner, sitting unused.

      Talking to the faculty (who to a person started out on Macs) one finds two major issues: Graphics cards for the MacPros suck hard compared to Windows offering and Apple's random walk as far as long term strategies make it hard for a company to invest a couple of million dollars in Apple gear. Nobody suggests using Macs for anything other than cool laptops.

      There were a bunch of MacBooks running around - all running Bootcamp.

      So, you're view of the Mac centric artistic universe was probably true a decade ago, but it certainly isn't true now. Windows 7 really is a pretty good, quite stable applications platform. Same for the Windows toolchain. And, as TFA points out, SolidWorks and 3DS Max, two very important 3D programs are Windows only.

      Apple has lost this battle and really isn't even fighting a credible rearguard action.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    3. Re:I have never understood by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And this has even spread to nations that run on 90%+ MS products...

    4. Re:I have never understood by bonch · · Score: 1

      It's because they infiltrate and dominate all of the colleges that produce creative professionals.

      I love how you throw this out there without any explanation or examples of how they "infiltrate" and "dominate" colleges. Colleges can use whatever they want.

    5. Re:I have never understood by whisper_jeff · · Score: 1

      I've never understood why professionals think that targets shouldn't move. I absolutely understand disliking it when your favourite software suite loses or changes a feature you love but if you think that the world must remain exactly as it is today so that you can be a creative professional then you aren't as creative as you think. Sorry - the world is evolving and companies are going to adapt. Some companies adapt faster than others but any creative professional who complains about it is not going to be employed in their creative efforts for long.

      Insert buggy-whip analogy, should you desire.

    6. Re:I have never understood by zzatz · · Score: 1

      Of course people complain about change. But there's more, and you've dismissed it.

      There are tasks which can be done with the old version which cannot be done with the new version. It's not a question of learning a new way to do it, it's that there simply is NO way to do it.

      Sure, people complained about the ribbon interface in the new version of Word. That's what you are talking about. What if it couldn't open old documents? That's what I'm talking about. What if the new version couldn't print? Those are the type of issues some users are complaining about. If all you ever did was business letters, maybe you wouldn't miss opening old documents. If all you ever did was email documents, maybe you would never miss printing. Those people are happy with the new version, which is better in other ways. But the new version is not usable by businesses which must provide printed documents, or revise old documents, and so on.

    7. Re:I have never understood by Osgeld · · Score: 1

      I am talking more along the lines of "we just spent a million dollars on all these nice new G5 mac pros and software to run on them" and the next year the stupid OS cant even be upgraded

    8. Re:I have never understood by michael_cain · · Score: 1

      It doesn't match exactly with "professional", but Apple has always shied away from "enterprise".

      When I worked for a giant corporation, Microsoft was "officially" notified that because we had 30,000 seats, mostly people who were not computer people and who would have to repeat training if the way the desktop worked changed, we would not buy a new version of Windows unless they guaranteed a backwards-compatible UI. MS, who is enterprise first and individual consumers second, has been willing to do this across multiple releases. Apple does not want to be constrained in this fashion; it's one of the reasons they ignore the "enterprise" market.

  6. business users ignored too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For the business and professional users who use Macs on the road, Lion can't do fullscreen apps on a secondary monitor anymore. This is a pain for presentations or videos on a projector.

    1. Re:business users ignored too by beelsebob · · Score: 1

      Uhhh can't it? That's funny, I just fullscreened an app on a second monitor... I just dragged it there and pressed the full screen button.

  7. Apple is going where the money is... by mlts · · Score: 3, Interesting

    In the past, Apple catered to pros because they were the ones who would spend $10,000 on a Quadra or //fx model. However, since their pricing model has changed, they are best served at catering to Joe/Jane Consumer.

    The only gripe I have is that Apple needs consider the IT market as well, and not just focus on consumers. Right now, Apple is doing well, but the enterprise is not just a huge market, but also is very hungry for Apple products. (As an IT person, oftentimes the top brass of companies will be using Macs as their own laptops. It makes me glad Lion has complete hard disk encryption, although having a TPM chip and BitLocker-like access would be ideal.) Apple could easily get some offerings into the IT sector. A redesigned Mac Pro that could work horizontally and fit on a drawer with attachable rack ears would be a start. A standalone disk array with redundant drive controllers and FCoE would bring them up to date for SMBs needing storage.

    IT is definitely a market that Apple might do well in, although Apple's main success is with consumers.

    1. Re:Apple is going where the money is... by robus · · Score: 1

      Apple goes where the market is heading and they like to think that their toughest competitor is themselves which is why they regularly subvert the established market (including their own products). They're constantly trying to be the outsider carving out a new niche. They've seen what happens when you become complacent: your products stagnate, your users oppose any change (Adobe?, Microsoft?) - this makes you vulnerable to hungry entrants who have nothing to lose (Apple?)

      IT is the worst market for Apple because they hate surprises. They want slow, steady increments in functionality - with road maps they can budget for. And they're going to beat you down in price because IT is a commodity market.

      Apple's always on the hunt for something new and they're willing to piss people off to find it.

    2. Re:Apple is going where the money is... by jclarke · · Score: 1

      ... having a TPM chip and BitLocker-like access would be ideal...

      Fun fact: Apple had a TPM chip in their laptops, but they removed it in a recent product revision.

      http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=248858

      Good luck getting it back!

    3. Re:Apple is going where the money is... by werepants · · Score: 1

      A redesigned Mac Pro that could work horizontally and fit on a drawer with attachable rack ears would be a start.

      You mean like the Xserve? They were really slick servers IMO, but apparently Apple didn't think they were worth the time, because they canceled the entire line a year or two ago. The Mac Pro is nice, but I think they really put the nail in the coffin of their enterprise relationships when they killed their servers.

    4. Re:Apple is going where the money is... by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      They'll have a hard time getting back in the server room. Canceling your server line sounds like defaulting on a mortgage - good luck getting a bank to give you another loan.

      IT pays extra for workstations just for the guarantee that the vendor will make the same identical model with the same components for n years, and not just drop it in six months because it is obsolete. For servers the need for long-term support is that much greater - who wants to spend $10M getting some system up and running only to find out that two years later you can't buy replacement hardware? In the PC world the hardware is one of the cheapest components of the whole system, and in the Apple world it is potentially one of the riskiest.

    5. Re:Apple is going where the money is... by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      They'll have a hard time getting back in the server room.

      To what extent was Apple in the enterprise server room in the first place? (Not a purely-rhetorical question; if there are cases where the Xserve was used significantly in an enterprise whose name doesn't match "Apple (Computer|Inc)", the details would be interesting.)

    6. Re:Apple is going where the money is... by werepants · · Score: 1

      I worked IT in a school district that ran a few of them - 8 or so. Not terribly significant, but the ones there were nice, and XGrid was slick. I have a friend who's working on building a cluster with a bunch of used ones, and so far he's getting pretty good bang for his buck, but that is probably substantially influenced by all the businesses that are dumping them after Apple cancelled the line.

    7. Re:Apple is going where the money is... by jbolden · · Score: 1

      IT is a market that Apple is doing well in. Huge numbers of programmers use Apple and have since the 10.2 days.

      Now if you mean enterprise... Apple has little interest in meeting the criteria for enterprise. They might make some minor concessions but really to satisfy enterprise requires a separate product line and then that product line drives your business. All their competitors are focused primarily on enterprise.

    8. Re:Apple is going where the money is... by jbolden · · Score: 1

      When Apple got in the server room it was with the G4/G5. XServers were way way cheaper than IBM p-series machines. Once they switched to Intel it is hard to see what specific advantages Apple has.

    9. Re:Apple is going where the money is... by jbolden · · Score: 1

      They didn't get into enterprise server rooms very much. They had niches:

      1) People who wanted the g4/g5 for supercomputing applications. Xserve were much cheaper than IBM p-series. Those people bought tons of XServes. When they switched to Intel though...

      2) Small business or schools with a small number of racks.

      3) Rendering farms for certain specialized applications that had crossed over.

    10. Re:Apple is going where the money is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait till competition drives the profit margins for the iPhone and the iPad down to single-digit percentages. If Apple's desktop market is dead by then, they will seriously rue the day they decided to kill it.

    11. Re:Apple is going where the money is... by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      IT is definitely a market that Apple might do well in, although Apple's main success is with consumers.

      What does "IT" mean in this context? I'm skeptical that Apple will do well in the marketplace for big honking 64+-processor enterprise servers running Oracle, say. Do you mean "departmental servers" or "workgroup servers", for example? Or do you mean "corporate end-user machines", in which case I think Apple's strategy is "corporations are moving towards a 'fuck it, buy your own damn machines, as long as they're not too hard to manage' strategy, and maybe people will start buying MacBook *'s".

    12. Re:Apple is going where the money is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fun fact: Apple had a TPM chip in their laptops, but they removed it in a recent product revision.

      Check the date on that post. That's not a recent product revision, it's an ancient one!

      PowerPC Macs never had TPMs, and the only Intel Macs with them were a handful of pre-Core2 models produced in the first year of Intel Macs. If your Mac has a Core 2 or newer processor, it doesn't have a TPM. (Oh, and even if it does have one, it's inert because Apple never shipped any software which actually used it for anything.)

      Good luck getting it back!

      Heh, yep.

    13. Re:Apple is going where the money is... by jclarke · · Score: 1

      Sorry, forgot we're talking about Apple where their products go EOL after 6 months.

  8. Research by lennier1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Looks like the author has only done some superficial research on some aspects.

    For example, 3ds Max is a Windows-only application, but it's far from the only major application in this sector. For example, LightWave licenses are less expensive, there's a Mac client as well and right now the features it has to offer are running circles around Max. And that's coming from a long-time Max user.
    It's one of the major applications in the business, but far from dominating.

    CAD is mostly done on Windows and *nix, but that's partly for historical reasons (code bas which has grown over decades in some cases).

    Part of the problem is also the specialized hardware support on the Mac platform. You just can't expect an overpriced two year old entertainment graphics card to beat the results professional graphics software will achieve on a Quadro/Fire with optimized drivers and certified compatibility. That's like expecting an AMC Gremlin to beat a well-tuned Formula 1 racer.

    1. Re:Research by ducomputergeek · · Score: 2

      Thing is 3D Studio Max did have a macintosh OS 9 version back before they were purchased by Autodesk. (I believe the last version of 3D studio max for Mac was 3.5 iirc). Lightwave still has an OSX version as does Maya (which is owned by Autodesk as well now). But there's been some rumblings that Maya's support for Mac maybe discontinued in the near future. (Which I think would have more to do with Autodesk)

      Maya has really eclipsed Lightwave in recent years, especially for Film work. Lightwave has always been used more in television, probably due to Newtek's products going back to Toaster for Amiga.

      However, Apple's been moving away from the Video production market for a few years. Shake used to be a defacto standard compositing application for a lot of small and mid sized shops, but then apple discontinued the software. That market is now being filled by Nuke, Fusion, and After Effects.

      --
      "The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
    2. Re:Research by Jackie_Chan_Fan · · Score: 1

      Lightwave is also piece of shit.

      3dsmax is far more advanced, but its still old and shitty. I know, I was there from beta 1, and 3ds dos.

      Maya and Softimage are far better programs. Especially Softimage. Which are both available on a Mac, but as a professional 3D user since the late 90s... I would NEVER do 3D on a mac ever. It's just fucking dumb.

    3. Re:Research by Jackie_Chan_Fan · · Score: 1

      huh? 3d Studio max has ALWAYS been an autodesk program. I think you have things confused. It was developed by the Yost group for Windows NT, during the transition from DOS to windows, after 4 versions of 3dstudio for dos, made by autodesk and the yost group.

      It was never on the mac.

    4. Re:Research by Jackie_Chan_Fan · · Score: 1

      BTW, Maya eclipsed lightwave at version 1. Lightwave is practically useless in todays industry. It just hasnt kept up, it never could, it never did. Its not the old amiga days. Lightwave is pretty much dead.

    5. Re:Research by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thing is 3D Studio Max did have a macintosh OS 9 version back before they were purchased by Autodesk. (I believe the last version of 3D studio max for Mac was 3.5 iirc).

      That's bull. 3ds max never had a native Mac version. Max has always been Windows only, and before that, 3d Studio (the predecessor) was DOS only.
      However, since version 2010, I believe, Autodesk offers limited licensing support for users running Max under Windows under Bootcamp.

    6. Re:Research by lennier1 · · Score: 1

      He's probably thinking of the whole Yost/Kinetix/Discreet thing, which looks different on the outside.

      As for Max on different platforms, the only thing I remember is someone claiming to have been at a closed-circle presentation of an experimental (partially working) Linux port. But that was back in the days when it was sold under the Kinetix/Discreet label.

    7. Re:Research by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      BTW, Maya eclipsed lightwave at version 1

      Oh, please, you couldn't even model in Maya 1 and historically Maya always had a shitty renderer in comparison to Lightwave. That's why Mental Ray was shoe-horned into Maya.

      Lightwave is practically useless in todays industry. It just hasnt kept up, it never could, it never did. Its not the old amiga days. Lightwave is pretty much dead.

      Lightwave has stagnated in the last few years. Only a fool would try to argue that. However, Lightwave has always given Maya a really hard time. Maya has gone the "we make everything really difficult, but at least it's all scriptable!" route which makes it great for longer term projects like movies. Lightwave went the "Oh, you just want to put a texture on a model? Hit this button!" route which meant that it wasn't as powerful in the long haul, but it could get results quickly. This is exactly why Lightwave was able to hold its ground despite slowing development and Maya's recent improvements.

      There's plenty of life left in Lightwave.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    8. Re:Research by jbengt · · Score: 1
      From TFA:

      Any sort of CAD software is all Windows-based, pretty much across the board, . . There’s nothing suitable out there that really runs on the Mac.

      From AutoDesk:

      AutoCAD for Mac CAD software delivers powerhouse 3D design tools and timesaving drafting tools.

    9. Re:Research by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mac os doesn't even have a control panel for the video card settings (LOL) or a .DDS plugin for Photoshop (must run Windows to even use that NEEDED plugin)...

      And what new 3d games ever get developed for Mac os?

      There is hardly anything to entice 3D designers on a Mac....

    10. Re:Research by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 1

      Looks like the author has only done some superficial research on some aspects.

      Is Apple abandoning the professional user ?
      Are they dumbing down their products ?
      Does Pc"Pro" desperately need your clicks ?

      Find out inside !

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    11. Re:Research by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      3D Studio was created by Autodesk, maybe you are thinking of Maya, of which there still is a mac version

    12. Re:Research by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Eh? There was never a Mac OS version of 3DS MAX, and MAX was created by Kinetix (the multimedia division of Autodesk, so they were never "bought"). You must be thinking of Maya (or possibly Softimage) which I believe had, and still has a Mac OS X version.

    13. Re:Research by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      3DS Max for the mac? You're just making shit up. Windows API dependancies are deeply rooted into Max's source code and design. Max is the Win32 re-write of 3DStudio.

      but you don`t have to take my words for it, talk to the creators http://www.maxunderground.com/the_history_of_3d_studio/3

    14. Re:Research by ulricr · · Score: 1

      there has never been mac version of 3ds max. it was written directly for Window NT and its core and plug-ins have deep dependencies on Win32.

    15. Re:Research by ulricr · · Score: 1

      autocad for the mac was released only a few month ago, after stopping the support for the mac in 1994!

  9. Re:Penis vagina by Truekaiser · · Score: 1

    no, most are built into the machine except for the mac pro and the price tag that could get you 2x the machine elsewhere and the mac mini which you could use the same amount of money to make a much better mini-itx system.

  10. worse than microsoft by StripedCow · · Score: 2, Insightful

    At least microsoft targets business users as well.

    However, if this trend continues, and other companies follow Apple in targeting the average Joe, then I foresee a sad future, where devices are locked down, professionals pay big bucks to get the tools they need, and universities and open source developers can't get hardware they can freely develop on.

    --
    If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
    1. Re:worse than microsoft by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      I don't, really. The tools we have today are good enough most professionals. If the latest version of your OS of choice doesn't work with your tools... why the hell would you upgrade?

      Photo editing, drawing, video editing... has anything really revolutionary come up in software for these things in the last few years? Can you envision any improvement that would cause people to switch over to a locked-down system?

      Basically, there's almost nothing we'd need to do now that we can't already do on stuff like Windows XP. Hell, take a look at corporations - there's still loads of places out there running Windows XP and IE6, or older Windows versions still like 2000. Upgrades will only happen if they're really worth it and truly necessary.

    2. Re:worse than microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "why the hell would you upgrade?"

      Well, for every person that stays with tried and true technology, there will be 5+ persons telling that first person how close-minded and afraid of change they are.

    3. Re:worse than microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure, and all software made today could be written in asm.

    4. Re:worse than microsoft by sensationull · · Score: 1

      I share the same concerns.

    5. Re:worse than microsoft by sensationull · · Score: 1

      Why upgrade, things break and con't be repaired and then new gear has no support for the old stuff you used to use. I dont thing the parent posters concern was for the standard primary school level image editing and audio work done by most constumers and the polished varient made by some pros. The real issue is when doing things that are not covered by the tools provided. If you need a new bit of code to process an image in a special way or process a more interesting type of data, multispectral images or the like.

      This is where the problems arise, when your creativity is limited to what is handed to you by some updtream manufacturer who's sole aim is to push the most shiney gee-gaws to market. That is where progress slows or stops and the only people making progress are those who control the tools and the masses.

    6. Re:worse than microsoft by Eponymous+Coward · · Score: 1

      At least microsoft targets business users as well.

      I see you haven't tried the Windows 8 beta yet.

    7. Re:worse than microsoft by bonch · · Score: 0

      Oh, the horror of targeting mere mortals! May we never lose our nerd playground PCs, made by nerds for the enjoyment of other nerds, for which the peons have the privilege of struggling with!

      We're already seeing what a security and fragmentation disaster Android has become in not being locked down. And game consoles have been locked down since their inception. In fact, one of the weirdest contradictions of Slashdot is that it adores Nintendo yet bashes Apple for being a walled garden.

    8. Re:worse than microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      loads of places out there running Windows XP and IE6,

      Who the fuck is still using IE6? I consult for over 200 different companies (some of them major ones) and I've yet to run into one fucking instance of IE6 in the last, idk 4 or 5 years.

      Get with the fucking times!!!

    9. Re:worse than microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Looks great actually. Memory management features are a significant improvement to the NT6.1 systems; and the 'Metro' interface could simplify things for the office drones since its just a matter of shoving all the standard 'apps' into Metro, being extremely clearly visible and easy to find there (probably will not happen). They don't need access to the desktop normally - and thus far if they do; there is a user setting to remove it, so Bob can keep Metro, Alice will use the classic, and its remembered from session to session, machine to machine.

    10. Re:worse than microsoft by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      Would people expect a game console to be configurable?

    11. Re:worse than microsoft by PhunkySchtuff · · Score: 1

      There's nothing locked down about any non-iOS hardware that Apple makes.

      Apple have given up trying to compete with with Microsoft and are going after an entirely different market altogether.

      Microsoft work their way into the enterprise from corporate policy. Apple work their way into the enterprise through personal choice.

    12. Re:worse than microsoft by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Why should everyone be targeting business users, creative professionals, or IT geeks?

      I don't much like Apple, but they are clearly doing what they're best at. I don't get this notion that some people seem to be having that Apple owes it to them to provide a platform with such-and-such traits. They are a for-profit corporation, and they follow the market - and the market is predominantly not professionals and not geeks, so it makes perfect sense that the latter are marginalized, and commodity hardware does not target them anymore - and therefore they have to pay premium for what they want.

      This isn't 90s anymore, the computer revolution has happened, we have got a computer on every desk and in every home - and by now also in every pocket. Now you have to deal with the consequences.

    13. Re:worse than microsoft by jbolden · · Score: 1

      Open source developers are able to convert hardware pretty easily and have done so for years. Xbox to iphone to... If you have physical control of a device it is hard to prevent you from loading an open source OS.

      As far as applications. The mainstream business and consumer world is much friendlier to open source than it has ever been.

    14. Re:worse than microsoft by jbolden · · Score: 1

      Honestly iOS isn't even all that locked down. You buy the developer SDK and you can do whatever you want.

    15. Re:worse than microsoft by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      There's nothing locked down about any non-iOS hardware that Apple makes.

      There's something locked-down about non-iOS software, however. There's a reason why Hackintosh is called that.

    16. Re:worse than microsoft by Vegemeister · · Score: 1

      Railing against nerds on Slashdot. Honestly.

  11. They always have by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Apple's corporate support is weak, often consisting of "take it to the Genius Bar". If you don't deal with a VAR, there just isn't good corporate support, or at least, there wasn't 4 or 5 years ago. Driving to the Apple Store doesn't scale if you have an enterprise with dozens of hundreds of MBPs. Also, no docking stations/port replicators. The docking station thing is pretty lame for corporate people too.

    They're very focused on user experience but have never to my knowledge tried to make themselves corporate friendly. Dumbing down their software is a part of that. But I don't look forward to standing in line for half an hour with a Mac Pro watching iPod after iPod ahead of me get replaced at the Genius Bar ever again.

    1. Re:They always have by futuresheep · · Score: 1

      It's a damn shame that Apple support doesn't scale, because support from the PC side of the spectrum is absolute shit these days.

      I use MBP pro in my job as a sysadmin. I bought it for a few reasons, but one WAS the support. I've used the Genius Bar once in the three years I had my laptop. I called to setup an appointment, showed up at that time, and was out the door with a fixed laptop in about 30 minutes. OTOH, we've had repair incidents with the Dell and Lenovo laptops that most of our users use that have taken weeks. The most recently was an LCD on a Thinkpad that had died. We pay for NBD support on all our laptops. The tech WAS there the next day, but it took three weeks to get the part in and the laptop repaired.

      As far as docking stations goes, there's a nice one from Bookendz:

      http://www.bookendzdocks.com/

    2. Re:They always have by xrayspx · · Score: 1

      I had looked at those 3rd party docs a bit, but they're super expensive, like triple what a dock for a Lenovo T500 would be. And to me a lot of the point is to save the ports from breaking by unplugging/replugging a few times a day, especially the mini-DVI port, we've had a few users that have gone through them, and I think mine is starting to be a problem. I'm not sure my company would go for it, but I can hope.

      The "support not scaling" came from a friend who worked at a large, mostly Mac, multi-location company that we've all heard of and use. His problem was that if one of their laptops died, he'd have to call customer service, who'd tell him to take it to an Apple store, he'd say "no, here's what's going to happen, you're going to send me an empty box with a shipping label on it, I'm going to send the machine back to you, then later, you'll send it back fixed". They'd do it, but it was a hassle. Again this was a few years ago, and I seem to recall that they were working on Corporate Support as an initiative at some point recently. Maybe they fixed it. We usually deal with resellers, so if something breaks, send it back to the reseller and have them deal with it. Still, it's nothing like HP enterprise support, log into site, generate ticket, problem gets fixed (at least for server products, I have no experience with HP in the desktop/laptop space).

  12. Professional? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    C'mon. There are currently 16 definitions for "professional" in the Urban Dictionary. Care to clarify the ones that apply?

    1. Re:Professional? by Bill+Dimm · · Score: 1

      There are currently 16 definitions for "professional" in the Urban Dictionary. Care to clarify the ones that apply?

      How many of those 16 definitions involve prostitution, oral sex, or alcoholism? You must be able to narrow it down at least a little.

  13. color by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 1

    I thought pros like the better color accuracy of the glossy screens?

    1. Re:color by Osgeld · · Score: 1

      Dunno, color on glossy can be effected by the slightest outside source

    2. Re:color by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      a good fast read on the subject:
      http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/apple-macbook-laptop,2130-4.html

      Summery -- in controlled environments, color accuracy is the same. Otherwise the glossy screen is better except for reflections. Many professionals in the image/video editing field will use matte screens because of the lack of reflections.

    3. Re:color by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      "Summery "

      No, it's quite "fally" now.

    4. Re:color by Jackie_Chan_Fan · · Score: 3, Informative

      Glossy screens do not make color accurate.

      Working in a color managed environment with color aware applications is what does. That means using calibration devices to measure all the color output of your devices, printers monitors etc... and creating color profiles.

      Glossy screens can make blacks look deeper, but also have a lot of glare and reflection. Pros arent looking for deeper blacks, they're looking for accurate blacks and color temperature. A monitor that puts out a good wide color gamut, that fits into the adobe rgb color space.

      Most monitors are too bright actually for accurate color representation.

    5. Re:color by localman · · Score: 2

      I was skeptical of the glossy screen when I got my last MacBook Pro, so I figured I'd try a little real work at the Apple Store before buying it. Within minutes I found that I had to bob my head up, down, left, and right to see around spots of screen glare that obscured content and controls. That seems a ridiculous trade-off to me.

      I know that in your home you can set things up so that there is no screen glare. Does anyone really stay that static any more? I take my laptop all over the place and use it in different environments that I don't control - I'd have to find a "good spot" in each case or bob my head around dodging screen glare. I guess this is something you're supposed to get used to? I don't mind that

      I'll stick with anti-glare, thanks.

  14. Small Computer Domination Means... by BoRegardless · · Score: 1

    Offering it all.

    To that end I expect to see Macs continually improve in running VM and native OSs other than Mac OS X.

    The more options you offer, the more customers you drag in & ...

    1. Re:Small Computer Domination Means... by PhunkySchtuff · · Score: 1

      The latest offerings from VMware and more so Parallels are outstanding in terms of integration and functionality.
      I've never had any problems running Windows on a Mac and these days most Linux distros boot straight up.
      I'm not sure there's a huge amount of room for improvement on these things as they're already so good...

  15. server by djfake · · Score: 1

    They certainly want out of the server market.

    --
    www.itjerk.com
    1. Re:server by HogGeek · · Score: 1

      I believe appropriately so.

      While it is my preferred desktop OS, it leaves a lot to be desired as a server.

  16. Pardon my ignorance... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... and I have a lot to apologize for, but OS X being BSD-based is there such a difference between it and Linux? For audio professionals, for instance, can it do things specialized Linuxes can't (like e.g. have real zero latency or whatever)?

    1. Re:Pardon my ignorance... by Osgeld · · Score: 1

      not really but linux is a hard target for 1 average users and 2 developers

      so if your making protools are you going to waste your time on 300 different distros, or are you going to tell the musician to compile their own, when often times things like youtube confuses them?

    2. Re:Pardon my ignorance... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You need a different example.

  17. they forgot Shake. And Color. And XSan. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Shake. industry standard motion graphics/SFX programme. expensive. Apple bought it. sold it for a while and killed it.

    Color. industry standard top end color grading system, expensive. Apple bought it, put it in Final Cut Studio. After a while it almost worked reliably!. Its now been killed.

    XSAN - the specialist XSAN hardware has been killed. the software has been rolled into Lion

    and as for their premium equipment like the mac pro, its really funny that their software like FCP only used one processor of these 8 core machines. biggest waste of money ever. Only now have they got FCPX multi threading and no professional wants that crap. Even if you wanted to edit and jump out to daVinci for colour correction (now they've killed color) you couldn't as it won't export EDLs.

  18. Look up what "creative indstries" means by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The article starts with mentioning "traditional Mac loyalists in the creative industries". Wikipedia will tell you what "creative industries" means.

  19. Commoditization by Corson · · Score: 1

    Obviously Apple are taking further steps to commoditize the software on their platform in order to increase the price of their hardware. The App store was just the first step.

    1. Re:Commoditization by PhunkySchtuff · · Score: 1

      Are you for real? Apple have such tight supply chains that other manufacturers can't even come close to them in equivalent hardware.
      Who else can make a tablet the equal of an iPad at the same price point as an iPad?
      Who else can make a laptop the equal of a MacBook Air at the same price point? How come Intel is investing millions of dollars to get other OEMs up to speed in making so called ultrabooks?

      If anything, Apple are offering competitive prices on their hardware to increase usage of the App store where they make a 30% cut. Apple are dropping prices on their "pro" software to consumer prices to further adoption. Witness Mac OS X Server + Xsan. Once was over $1k for OS X Server plus another grand for Xsan. Now it's fifty bucks. The price drops in Final Cut Pro, their cutting the price of Aperture when it went from a box product to the App store etc.

    2. Re:Commoditization by fostware · · Score: 1

      They don't need to increase the price of their hardware. They've made the hardware prices so that it's just as cheap to go to the department store or to ... drumroll... the Apple Store.
      We make 3% GP on Mac hardware if we're lucky - less for education. Apple have killed any incentive to sell their kit except to get software and services into the site.
      AppStore takes software away leaving us as just a services and solution provider.
      Luckily we rock at that ^_^.

      --
      "We know what happens to people who stay in the middle of the road. They get run over." - Aneurin Bevan
  20. Re:BS by Elbart · · Score: 1

    Mention 1 poor value hardware piece on any of the latest apple product.

    "Server grade" WD Greens in the Time Capsules.

    come on... 95% of laptops are non-glossy and if you are a super pro detail designer, you will not use a laptop screen to work.

    Whereas you can get a non-glossy MBP (17") with an additional fee, you'll be hardpressed to get a non-glossy iMac or Thunderbolt Display.

  21. This is a software thing by l0ungeb0y · · Score: 4, Insightful

    First off Apple still offers anti-glare displays as an option on ALL their MacBook Pros. So the rant about not offering matte displays is completely off base. In fact, I'm writing this post on a later model Macbook Pro with an antiglare screen and a quick glance at the store shows this option still available.

    The real ire is the SOFTWARE, namely the utter fiasco that is Final Cut Pro X. But this is a well known issue and Apple has tried to smooth things over a bit by letting people DOWNGRADE to the last version. So it seems that Apple is well aware of how badly it messed things up and being that Final Cut has been a huge success until now, it only stands to reason that Apple will not make the same mistake twice and will release a new version that addresses their user's concerns. And while that is mere speculation, seeing how much money FCP has brought in and how much hardware it has ended up selling for Apple, it stands to reason that they will not idly stand by while their egg laying goose dies a painful death at the hands of an angered user base.

    Also, Apple is more reliant upon developers now than ever. Those trendy consumer gadgets such as iPhone and iPad require a strong developer base, and it requires those developers to develop within OS X and with Apple Tools, even Flash Builder and Titanium require XCode to do the compiling. So to drive away your development community would also make no sense since that would only boost rivals creating apps for other products such as Android phones and tablets.

    Apple is trying to normalize the look and feel of it's two operating systems iOS and OS X to make them not only easier to use for the consumer but easier to develop for for the developers. OS X Lion, while causing ire for it's sweeping UI changes now features a lot of the same features as iOS -- which from a UI development standpoint simplifies the development process.

    So in the end, time will heal these wounds. Give it a few more months and see what the upcoming release of FCP has to offer it's core user base as well as how iCloud and iOS5 reshape how users and developers interoperate with OS X and iOS based devices. I think then a lot of these changes will make sense and some of the shock at these changes and the handful of missteps will die off.

    1. Re:This is a software thing by hedwards · · Score: 1

      I have a hard time believing that Apple realizes how dependent it is upon developers, considering how far they've gone out of their way to piss off developers. Random rejections in the appstore, ambiguous guidelines of acceptable, locked down interfaces and an inability to install things without either going through the appstore or jailbreaking the device.

    2. Re:This is a software thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really... Just looked, and it only seems to be an option on the 17" MBP model.

    3. Re:This is a software thing by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      TFA is describing media professionals, not so much iOS developers (which Apple does need). For the latter, a Mac mini is fine. Apple just isn't competing in the higher end stuff.

      And I think Apple has pretty much lost much of the Final Cut business. Not so much today - professionals aren't looking to replace their entire tool chain every time Apple releases a new version, but when it does come time to upgrade, many FCP users will be looking long and hard at alternatives. Just the backwards compatibility debacle is deal killer for many folks.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    4. Re:This is a software thing by Roogna · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As someone who makes their living doing Mac and iOS development, I'd like to point out the flip side to the story of rejections and stuff. For every very vocal person complaining that their app was rejected, or that they can't figure out how to install an app on their phone (As a registered developer, I have no problem re-signing an ipa with my own keys and installing it on my devices, without the appstore or jail breaking. Enterprises have even less issue), there are probably a hundred of us who are making our livings at this and not running into any of these issues.

      That's not to say there's no truth to it either. But on a day-to-day basis, the irritations I'm having with Apple as a developer are not any of these things.

    5. Re:This is a software thing by solios · · Score: 1

      First off Apple still offers anti-glare displays as an option on ALL their MacBook Pros. So the rant about not offering matte displays is completely off base. In fact, I'm writing this post on a later model Macbook Pro with an antiglare screen and a quick glance at the store shows this option still available.

      Not on the 13", and not as an "option." The 15" with AG is almost a thousand dollars more expensive than the baseline 15". You can't mix and match - it's that machine or All Glare All The Time.

    6. Re:This is a software thing by Conanymous+Award · · Score: 5, Informative

      Nah, you can also get a 15-incher with a matte screen, but not a 13".

    7. Re:This is a software thing by l0ungeb0y · · Score: 1

      You mistyped -- I believe you mean to say that the 15" is more expensive than the 13". That is true -- but, the AG option is only $50 more than the Glossy HD option. So to me that says that the cost of providing the HD displays AT ALL on the 13" form factor is cost prohibitive.

      For more on this, ask yourself, "Why did Apple discontinue the MacBook (formerly iBook) line?"

      Was it because they were't selling enough of them, or was it that the consumer notebook market got so commoditized that they decided to make the 13" MacBook Pro their consumer price point notebook offering in order to retain profitability while still serving that market segment?

      If anything this shows that they care quite a bit about the Professionals since this move looks like they intend to keep their headless Mac Pros and Macbook Pro 15 and 17 inch models for the PROFESSIONALS while iMacs, MacBook Pro 13 inch will be serving the consumer market, with MacBook Air serving both higher-end consumers and pros. Else, why not kill off headless Macs entirely and why the HUGE increase in performance specs for the 15 and 17 inch form factors vs the 13"?

    8. Re:This is a software thing by robus · · Score: 1

      I agree the handling of Final Cut Pro X was a fiasco - but I don't think Apple was wrong to rebuild it. The app was creaking antique - that yes ran - but was built on a bunch of old tech foundations. Apple has a bunch of new tech that Final Cut could only leverage with a complete rebuild. Why they didn't rename it "Final Cut Pro Classic" or something and indicate that FCP X was the future path and transition over people who could now and add features for the Pros over time and gradually transition them too? I have no idea. An insurgent product wouldn't immediately end the sales of the market leader - they could have competed with themselves for a while.

      Very strange.

    9. Re:This is a software thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've noticed a trend away from the professional market for years now. The FCP debacle was an example of Apple throwing the pros under the bus in hopes of expanding their prosumer market. There's a lot more wedding photographers than there are pro film makers. I think they did get surprised by the backlash. I think you are overestimating their reaction. If they were planning to cater to the pros they would have announced a return of Final Cut Pro. FCP X is a completely different software and it's doubtful it'll be anything like FCP any time soon. Apple is stubborn and they have a history of saying if you don't like the change, tough. I like Apple hardware and I'm writing this on a Mac but I am realistic about the odds of them changing their minds. I've already switched from Final Cut Pro and I doubt I'll ever go back.

    10. Re:This is a software thing by bonch · · Score: 1

      Rejections aren't random, guidelines aren't ambiguous, interfaces aren't "locked down" (in iOS 5, there's even built-in visual customization support), and having to install apps from authorized sources is absolutely no different from every popular console platform in the world.

    11. Re:This is a software thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One size dosnt fit all -just because it works on a phone dosnt mean it's practical day in day out on a desktop? I thought Apple were supposed to be the gui gurus?

    12. Re:This is a software thing by nightfell · · Score: 1

      considering how far they've gone out of their way to piss off developers

      Cherry picking your data to fit your personal beliefs doesn't make for a compelling argument.

    13. Re:This is a software thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They did stop offering it for some time after the release of the "unibody" Macbook Pros, that's likely the cause of the confusion.

    14. Re:This is a software thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wrong. the 13" one doesnt have antiglare.

    15. Re:This is a software thing by MacDork · · Score: 1

      Until they throw the kill switch on *your* app. Then you're just part of that vocal minority... blah, blah, move along. Nothing to see here...

    16. Re:This is a software thing by jbolden · · Score: 1

      Because that isn't the Apple way. If you are an Apple user you know the process:

      1) Apple announces a direction
      2) There is a short transition period to get everyone moved
      3) Old path is cutoff

      Apple doesn't create needless diversity. They continue to offer FCP for a short period of time till all the functionality crossed over and then FCX only.

    17. Re:This is a software thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know when final cut pro first came out all the people that not use the previous version of FCP called it a toy too and not for professional use. My how history repeats itself.

    18. Re:This is a software thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > First off Apple still offers anti-glare displays as an option on ALL their MacBook Pros. So the rant about not offering matte displays is
      > completely off base. In fact, I'm writing this post on a later model Macbook Pro with an antiglare screen and a quick glance at the store
      > shows this option still available.

      Nope, not just a software problem:

      Has matte screen option:
      - MacBook 15": matte option available only with hi-res screen (which, combined with 10.7's inability to change the system font size, means my friend with poor vision can't use the matte screen).
      - MacBook 17": has matte option

      Does not have a matte screen option:
      - MacBook 13": glossy only
      - MacBook Air 11": glossy only
      - MacBook Air 13": glossy only
      - iMac 21.5": glossy only
      - iMac 27": glossy only

      Mac Pro? Let's check out Apple display options:
      - Apple Thunderbolt Display, 27": glossy only
      - Apple LED Cinema Display 27": glossy only

      I guess everyone at apple works in lighting conditions designed to minimize reflections on their screens. The rest of us, though, live in the real world.

    19. Re:This is a software thing by theolein · · Score: 1

      The guy you replied to is right. There certainly are quite a few who have had pretty bad experiences with the approval process. Friend of mine here in Switzerland removed both his apps from the appstore after Apple accused him of stealing code.... from an earlier version of his own fucking app. Yes, it is that retarded.

    20. Re:This is a software thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The rest of us, though

      also have no problems working off glossy screens.

    21. Re:This is a software thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First off Apple still offers anti-glare displays as an option on ALL their MacBook Pros. So the rant about not offering matte displays is completely off base. In fact, I'm writing this post on a later model Macbook Pro with an antiglare screen and a quick glance at the store shows this option still available.

      First, it's only available for the 15'' and 17'', not for the 13''.

      Second you should not use "still" (available). The actual word is "again", because for some time the option was only available for the 15'' and only for one specific screen resolution (and I'm not 100% sure but I think to remember that a few years ago they had completely removed the option for a few months before adding it again because of users' complaints)

    22. Re:This is a software thing by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      No one is free while others are oppressed. Your argument boils down to "I don't want to do anything that Apple doesn't want me to do, so this problem is not very serious." But it's not about you. It's about the user, and their choice.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    23. Re:This is a software thing by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Apple is trying to normalize the look and feel of it's two operating systems iOS and OS X to make them not only easier to use for the consumer but easier to develop for for the developers.

      This statement betrays a deep lack of understanding of iOS or OSX. They are the same operating system, and come from the same codebase.

      Apple IS however on the way to the same walled garden model for Macs that they have for iDevices... and you didn't even hear it here first.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    24. Re:This is a software thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The rest of us, though

      also have no problems working off glossy screens.

      I do have a problem with that, as many of my coworkers. Not all of them though.

    25. Re:This is a software thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First off Apple still offers anti-glare displays as an option on ALL their MacBook Pros. So the rant about not offering matte displays is completely off base.

      FFS, please show me where I can buy a 13" MBP with an anti-glare screen: http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/specs-compare.html .

    26. Re:This is a software thing by cbope · · Score: 1

      First off Apple still offers anti-glare displays as an option on ALL their MacBook Pros. So the rant about not offering matte displays is completely off base. In fact, I'm writing this post on a later model Macbook Pro with an antiglare screen and a quick glance at the store shows this option still available.

      Bzzzt, wrong. From one of my earlier posts on this topic:

      Please check the specs, you have to go for the $1799 15-inch "upgrade" model before anti-glare becomes an option. In the base 15" model it's not available and it's completely off the table for the 13" MBP's.

      I hardly think it's correct to say the anti-glare is an option for all MBP's, more correctly it would be at best 50% correct.

    27. Re:This is a software thing by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      Until they throw the kill switch on *your* app. Then you're just part of that vocal minority... blah, blah, move along. Nothing to see here...

      Funny thing about that. Apple's the only provider that hasn't done it yet. Google? Yes, many times for perfectly valid reasons (so far...). Amazon? Ditto. Apple? Nope. And no one really knows if they can, or if it's limited to CoreLocation apps (the killswitch code is located in CoreLocation - not the best place as many apps can avoid using location services).

      And even if Apple removes an app, if you have a local copy of the IPA file on your disk, you can easily reinstall it. Unlike say, users of the Tricorder Android app who may not have realized that they have to manually extract the APK file. (One of the reasons I like iTunes - I can have a local copy of apps automatically - none of thise "cloud backup" stuff that Google has that doesn't even list half the apps I got).

    28. Re:This is a software thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First off Apple still offers anti-glare displays as an option on ALL their MacBook Pros.

      No, they are not. You cannot buy a 13" MBP with an anti-glare display. There is no such option.

  22. Nice linkbait, PCpro by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Looks like Slashdot fell for the time-honored "OMG APPLEZ IS ABANDONING US PROZ!" linkbait garbage that pops up every couple months. Anyone who claims they'd be just fine with a Hackintosh either doesn't know what a PITA that represents or is only a "professional" in the sense that they spend 12 hours a day whinging about Apple on forums...

  23. Re:BS by Elbart · · Score: 1

    Sorry, apparently 15" MBP can have non-glare-displays too, for a markup.

  24. Certainly not focusing by Kjella · · Score: 1

    Certainly not focusing for some time now, so eventually a few things are left behind. Businesses tend to look at it more rationally, what productivity increases do we get - which translates fairly directly to dollars, compared to the costs. Consumers generally don't have any tangible productivity or revenue, it's more a matter of disposable income and what they like. It's like trying to compare the army and a regular person buying a sweater. The army will look at technical things like thermal properties, durability, washing instructions and other technical things, what brand and fashion statement you make is utterly irrelevant. Then you get into a fairly low-margin business of who can provide a piece of clothing that satisfy those requirements, and Apple doesn't want to be there. The only reason they've stayed with graphics professionals is that many of those have had very high hardware and software budgets, just like there were some ridiculously expensive SGI workstations for engineers. Apple wants to sell to the people who'll pick a $699 iPhone over a $399 Android because they want an iPhone. Not because of an rational feature-by-feature comparison, but because they have a want and the money to buy what they want. The margins are much, much nicer that way.

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  25. Not all "professionals" are graphic artists... by NetJunkie · · Score: 2

    Macs are no longer limited to graphics artists and web designers. While that market may not be what it was for Apple it's being more than made up for in other areas. I'm a Data Center Architect and use nothing but Macs. Cisco, EMC, and VMware now offer Macs as standard offerings for their SEs and field people and last I heard Cisco had gone 30% Mac in just a few months. It's rare I'm in a meeting with those guys where Mac is not the majority.

    Pushing away professionals? Hardly. Nice link bait.

    1. Re:Not all "professionals" are graphic artists... by mgscheue · · Score: 1

      The article didn't say that all professionals are graphic artists. But graphic artists, web designers, photographers, musicians, film makers, etc., are professionals and have traditionally comprised sizable portion of the market for Macs.

    2. Re:Not all "professionals" are graphic artists... by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      You're talking laptops (where MacPros seem to rule the roost currently). TFA is talking media professionals (video / film especially) using desktops and render farms.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    3. Re:Not all "professionals" are graphic artists... by SteveW928 · · Score: 1

      But, media professionals are a pretty small group of professionals. Though, I agree that in that market segment, the Mac Pros some need are overpriced. Folks in that segment often use cross-platform renderer farms (and will build a bunch of cheap CPU power for the farm) and still might use Macs for their actual workstations.

    4. Re:Not all "professionals" are graphic artists... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know I'm a bit late to the convo, but...

      I sell to quite a few graphics artist firms and small to mid-size rendering shops as well as a few large entertainment powerhouses (names you would know).

      Anyhow... most are quite pissed at Apple over the FCP changes and as a result they are being forced to move toward windows.

      So, FUD aside, there is a real effect to the poor decisions around FCP and I hope they fix it.

    5. Re:Not all "professionals" are graphic artists... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cisco had gone 30% Mac in just a few months.

      I think 60% is closer to the mark today. And as funny as it sounds, their internal IT dept still only "support" Windows, leaving the Mac users on self-support.

    6. Re:Not all "professionals" are graphic artists... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that may be the case in some enterprise solutions. but in the medium size business sector that i'm in, most of the time the computer budget for the work force is ~$1000 usd per user .. IF that. there is no way to equip a entire work force with apple machines and the software required for that.

    7. Re:Not all "professionals" are graphic artists... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The legacy of "Macs are for creative people" lives on, even if there's no reason for it. I work for a newspaper, everybody is on iMacs and Macbook Pros; general consensus always says you could switch everybody over to PCs and easily save tons of money.

      And that's more or less a lie - you can't only look at the cost of hardware. There's this little thing called support that haters never mention - HW/SW/network and especially users.

      Now Macs and OSX are not perfect and fault-free, but maintaining a Mac environment generally goes smoother than a Windows-PC one; there's a reason why generic PCs are cheaper, quality went out the window a long time ago for the sake of lowering prices and make them seem like a better deal.

    8. Re:Not all "professionals" are graphic artists... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My thoughts exactly. No professional I never knew used apple products... Products made for brainless rodents.

  26. Some "Professionals" Aren't by Webcommando · · Score: 2

    I'm not a professional at all but an amateur who has used Apple professional tools for music. I was also excited about Final Cut Pro X since I also like to create shorts and wring every last bit of power from iMovie.

    I read the message boards to see what was going on with the different tools and--personal opinion--some professionals aren't very. First, as a professional you constantly evaluate your workflows and tools to deliver your end product. I get that some people do not want to change what works, but I moved from Sonar Producer (DAW) to Logic Pro with very little issues and could leverage some of the different features quickly (of course, I did miss Sonar exclusive features too). Some posters on the boards were simply not able to understand there might be better workflows using the power of new tools. Second, some of the tools added were phenomenal which would probably save them enough time to focus on how to do work with the new tool. Third, the squeaky wheels got a lot of press while many on the boards were very happy with the changes and improvements. I personally found the enhancements fairly exciting based on the limitations I hit in iMovie every day.

    From my own experience would I be upset if Logic Pro started looking like Garageband...yes. Would I adapt to leverage what it offers..absolutely. I already find myself using Garageband for quick songs because it is far easier to get in and out quickly; there is some real value there.

    As technologist, what would we say to a professional programmer who never wanted to learn a new language, evaluate new programming tools (e.g. IDE) or leverage new build automation?

    Finally, it is fortunate there is a great ecosystem of video and audio tools that can fill any gaps in Apple's portfolio. That's a good thing

    --
    I love the sound of distortion in the morning -- webcommando
    1. Re:Some "Professionals" Aren't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      First, and foremost.. they broke backward compatibility, with no tooling to support bringing older projects into the new version. That is the single greatest sin, far more than changes to the front end interface. Name another professional software tool that has ever done that in two releases. I think you would be very hard pressed to find one, simply because it isn't done. The time it would take to re-create an existing project from an older version is far more costly to "Professionals" than the tool itself costs.

    2. Re:Some "Professionals" Aren't by dogmatixpsych · · Score: 1

      Backwards compatibility has been added back in to FCPX. They should have included it in the first place but at least Apple responded to complaints.

  27. Lion much better than you think by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Lion is really good when you get used to it. At first I was really annoyed to have my grid removed in spaces for the flat line that is Mission Control, but after some use I greatly prefer it, in part because of the integration now between Spaces and Expose.

    Mail is greatly improved, and the tokenized search is genius. It's the best way I've ever seen of exposing a more complex search to users that have no idea what "AND" means.

    If it was just the reverse scrolling then you can switch it back, though again after some use I either prefer it now or got used to it such that it doesn't matter.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Lion much better than you think by mario_grgic · · Score: 1

      Spaces and expose were always integrated. You show bird eye view of your spaces (F19 for me) and then hit expose to expose windows in all spaces. You could move windows from one space to another when in bird eye view etc.

      --
      As the island of our knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance.
    2. Re:Lion much better than you think by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

      Yes, but the way it works now is better where you can have a good view of you current space but still easily transfer stuff to a different one without having to have everything smaller still... Also the way fullscreen integrates with Spaces is really good.

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  28. They killed their IT market! by www.sorehands.com · · Score: 1

    Apple was supporting IT with their XServes, and they worked with a company called Aqua Connect in developing a terminal server which works under OS X. Then they killed the XServe, and tried to send people to Mac Pros, not really designed for racks.

    Dumbing down the UI is not always a sign that you are killing professionals, but making it lower learning curve entry.

    What has to be asked is does the new, dumber interface, make the work more difficult or is it just bitching because the interface is different. They didn't kill Final Cut Pro, just changed it.

    1. Re:They killed their IT market! by russotto · · Score: 1

      The market for the XServe just wasn't working out for Apple (and never has, though they've tried more than once in their history), so they killed it. But that's a different sort of professional than the "creative" professionals which they have historically done well with. Far as I can tell they haven't been abandoning them, they just screwed up with Final Cut.

    2. Re:They killed their IT market! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple was supporting IT with their XServes

      Uh, sure they were. In ten years, I've yet to even *see* the mythical XServe.

      I've no doubt that some miscreant out there had a rack full of them, but this is like saying Linux supports the computer gaming industry because it has XEvil.

    3. Re:They killed their IT market! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If only Apple acquired Sun instead of Oracle. The each had the part that the other could use or wanted.

    4. Re:They killed their IT market! by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Why copy MS and their graphical terminal when you do it with single applications on X or entire desktops with XDMCP, NX and a few dozen variants of VNC?
      Why follow the faded copy when you already have the full featured original?

  29. I Think This Every Day I'm Developing for iOS by Paul+Slocum · · Score: 0

    I am a Windows user who has mostly switched to Mac to developer for iOS because it's an unbeatable embedded platform for music and video software. But I'm constantly floored at how poorly the Mac is designed for power users. The window management and control is awful, keyboard setup for text editing is awful, touchpad drivers are awful, XCode is buggy and a mess, the iTunes Connect interface seems like it was made 10 years ago, documentation is unbelievably poor, and in general, it's shocking how bad some of their user interfaces are for their developer tools when they're supposed to be all about user experience. This is stuff you are supposed to learn in User Experience 101. And although some similar problems exist in Windows, you can adjust what you don't like! Apple goes out of its way to insure that you can't change things, drives me nuts.

    1. Re:I Think This Every Day I'm Developing for iOS by sandytaru · · Score: 1

      Interesting, User Experience 101 is being taught as one of the last classes of my MIT degree. So anyone who has *most* of an MIS or CS master's degree but never actually finished it... never got to that class. Explains a lot, actually.

      --
      Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
    2. Re:I Think This Every Day I'm Developing for iOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What problem are you exactly having with text editing? I think it's brilliant the way I can move around in text with OSX compared to other platforms. CMD+arrow-left jumps a whole line to the left and OPT/CTRL+arrow-left jumps just 1 word. Windows uses the HOME/END key (which is far away from your hands normally :p).
      And what documentation is poor? I find the iOS Documentation extremely well written (albeit a bit obscure from time to time)

    3. Re:I Think This Every Day I'm Developing for iOS by AdamJS · · Score: 1

      CTRL+arrow directions (including up and down) do the exact same thing on Windows. Ubuntu has a similar implementation that often acts a bit poorer. Home/End are just additional options for doing the same thing.

  30. Their stupidity. by unity100 · · Score: 1, Insightful
    Observe the below complaint and solution about glossy screens on macs making visual work hard in office environments due to glares :

    The only viable solution to the problem is to buy a screen from a third-party manufacturer. “I want to see only the images and applications I’m using, not reflections of the room around me, and I often look at the screen for up to 16 hours a day,” says photographer Bill Wisser. “Recently, I bought $7,000 of computer equipment, including a new eight-core Mac Pro and a new 30in monitor – a Dell.

    he could have just bought much better pc equipment and an even bigger monitor with a whopass budget like 7000. he chose to buy macs. and he suffers for it.

    stupidity.

    1. Re:Their stupidity. by Osgeld · · Score: 1

      oh but photoshop works so much better with a single button mouse =)

    2. Re:Their stupidity. by aztracker1 · · Score: 2

      In terms of workstation (equivalent to some server systems), the pricing is pretty competitive.. where Apple falters is the lower end workstation offerings (sub $2000). I usually to my desktop/workstation builds in the $1200-2000 range, where a Mac Pro isn't an option.

      --
      Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
  31. They are not "lesser tools" by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    it seems they are abandoning that top-tier niche with lesser tools.

    This is not the case; Apple is a company inherently not satisfied with simply building what existed, but in trying to advance the state of the art. So they are willing at times to throw an interface under the bus for something new they consider to be better.

    Yes in FCP a few pro-specific features were left behind, but much of that has been addressed already and they also continued to sell the old FCP for those that want to keep using it until the new FCPX supports features they feel they need.

    What you are not seeing is that Apple is trying to change at times what it MEANS to be a professional, how they work...

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:They are not "lesser tools" by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2

      What you are not seeing is that Apple is trying to change at times what it MEANS to be a professional, how they work...

      'Professional'.

      That word doesn't mean what Apple thinks it means. For the purposes of this thread, professional is much closer to fuzzyfuzzyfungus' definition of someone who has "Final cut, two dozen specialized plugins, one or more boutique hardware components for capture or output, some sort of storage backend, possibly some in-house custom tools..." then Apple's view of a couple of metrosexuals hammering out some cheezy TV ad at Starbucks. People with a serious workflow that does what THEY want it to do, not what Steve Jobs thinks they should be doing.

      Room for both groups, obviously, but the writing is pretty much on the wall - Apple is going to be a smaller and smaller part of serious professional's workflow as the Windows ecosystem improves and evolves. No biggy really, if you decide to ditch OS X, most of your Apple hardware will work fine for the next couple of years. Nothing is etched in stone anyway, things change. Software changes, hardware changes.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:They are not "lesser tools" by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      CEOs change. You make a good point about nothing being etched in stone. Steve Jobs was Apple. We have no idea where the company will go now.

    3. Re:They are not "lesser tools" by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Tim Cook certainly could change the timbre of the argument by coming out and saying "hey, we're still very much interested in graphics professionals, here is what we're going to do". Even without a detailed map, a lot of people would stop and listen (for a while). Better yet, the big application vendors could get together with Apple and smile and slap each others back and make cooing noises.

      Kinda don't think it's going to go that way, but who knows?

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    4. Re:They are not "lesser tools" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What you are not seeing is that Apple is trying to change at times what it MEANS to be a professional, how they work...

      Yes, for editors it MEANS they're now going to be using Avid or Adobe for the next few years after training on FCP.

      That decision was made within a week of iMovieHD limping out the app store. No serious production company is staking their future on a "pro" editing application that lacks fundamental EDL, OMF, AAF / XML support yet manages to ship with "share to youtube" menu cheese already in place.

    5. Re:They are not "lesser tools" by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

      No serious production company is staking their future on a "pro" editing application that lacks fundamental EDL, OMF, AAF / XML support

      They had some of that supported via plugin at launch, and have added more since launch.

      Also they were trying to move the industry AWAY from an ancient interplay format and towards a more capable XML format (which was supported at launch). Apple is building the foundation for the next generation of professional video editing; it's unsurprising some people cannot see that but in ten years you'll have some really outdated skills if you don't keep up with the state of the art.

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    6. Re:They are not "lesser tools" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and have added more since launch.

      trying to move the industry AWAY from an ancient interplay format and towards a more capable XML format

      Bullshit!

      Apple is building the foundation for the next generation of professional video editing; it's unsurprising some people cannot see that but in ten years you'll have some really outdated skills if you don't keep up with the state of the art.

      Share to YouTube is not the foundation for the next generation of pro editing. Then there's the magnetic timeline... making the non-linear linear. And I'm sorry but skill in editing has nothing to do with what NLE you use!

    7. Re:They are not "lesser tools" by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      I don't actually think it will go all that well either, but no matter what direction they go Apple has some serious changes ahead.

  32. I'm hopeful... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That there'll be an upgrade to Snow Leopard for desktop users. Things like removing scrollbars and adding autosave in Lion are stupid, the latter totally incompatible with common workflows.

    Some of the ommisions in the original release of iMovieHD were addressed by a recent update. Now I'd like to see a version with a UI targeted at working editors. When AvidMC and Adobe Premiere both get 30-40% sales increases, that's a good indicator of what a huge fuckup Apple made here.

    If Apple don't respond to the needs of professional users (a term extending beyond media production), the attrition they witnessed after the iMovieHD debacle will expand and accelerate.

  33. Same goes for matt by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Matt screens also are affected by outside sources, just not as strongly - which is why professionals to whom that would matter either control the environment to eliminate them or buy a monitor hood (or both).

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Same goes for matt by Osgeld · · Score: 1

      Like I said I dunno, the majority of "professionals" chiming in on this story are singing the praises of the macbook pro, it its impossible to tell what these people are thinking

    2. Re:Same goes for matt by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      We're thinking we like to work on our artwork without staring at our reflection the entire time.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    3. Re:Same goes for matt by fostware · · Score: 1

      We're thinking we like to work on our artwork without staring at our reflection the entire time.

      Maybe most of the time... :P

      --
      "We know what happens to people who stay in the middle of the road. They get run over." - Aneurin Bevan
  34. I would pay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I would pay for a copy of OS X licensed to go on my PC. I have a 1st gen MacBook Pro that I can install Lion on. Apple is making there newer computer non-user upgradable.

  35. Only high end servers by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Apple may want out of the high end rack mounted server market, but they are very happy to sell a quite capable small server in the Mac mini (which you can order pre-configured as a server).

    For a small company that only needs a handful of servers a number of mac minis could make a lot of sense.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  36. Physics is mostly Apple by torako · · Score: 4, Informative

    I'm a research scientist at particle physics institute and my anecdotal experience is the opposite: Nowadays, it seems like at least 3/4 of the laptops I see at conferences are Apple laptops (plus a growing amount of iPads). The desktops at my institute are either Linux or OS X.

    OS X is a great environment to use LaTeX in, make presentations (Keynote + LaTeXit for equations is awesome), code scientific software or run apps like Mathematica or Matlab.

    1. Re:Physics is mostly Apple by Bill+Dimm · · Score: 1

      My, how things have changed. When I was a high energy theory grad student, we used Zenith Z-29 terminals that were rescued from the chemistry department's trash dumpster.

    2. Re:Physics is mostly Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The samething is happening in Astronomy... But this has more to do with the codebase (professional astronomy, as well as physics, has always been *nix based), that thanks to OSX can be seamlessly used on a pleasant and productive graphical environment (X wms were never really pleasant environments to work with), than with the quality of their iron.

      I use Macs for more than 15 years already (portables+desktops), and I can confidently say, that their quality standards are lower at each year.

      In fact, last year I bought a very expensive i7 MBP that just became "a toy" in august, since its Nvidia graphics card started to having issues and freezing the computer (perhaps the problem is the firmware). But the main issue is that Apple refused to acknowledge the existence of this issue until a couple of days ago... Since the MBP was out of warranty (for less than one week), I was obliged to buy another computer to work with (as well as to avoid having freezes during scientific talks)... More on that, among the 1,720 messages of this Apple forum:

      https://discussions.apple.com/message/15665312#15665312

      Thanks to the highly unprofessional behaviour of the company regarding this issue, I doubt I will ever be buying another mac again.

      Perhaps they think that now they are selling "real Apples" - those you eat in a couple of minutes and then...

    3. Re:Physics is mostly Apple by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      I love Matlab, but *my goodness* it has UI issues on the Mac - the version I have (2010b) often gets into an interface lag quagmire, sometimes taking 10 to 15 seconds to register that I've clicked on an element (whether a button or a menu etc) - I have tried using the java.opts fix etc, but nothing works.

      The frustrating thing is that sometimes it works just fine, then the wind changes direction or a cloud passes or something and the whole thing slows to a crawl.

      It *doesn't* affect the processing of the maths, only the UI, so running bench shows no problem and while you are waiting those agonising seconds for the UI to respond the CPU is just sitting idle.

      It's a shame, because it's nice to be able to fire it up and work on things without having to be in the lab, but it can be an exercise in patience.

    4. Re:Physics is mostly Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree 100%. I work at a major engineering research laboratory at a top 10 university. The high-end computational scientists are using either OSX or Linux, and we are abandoning Windows machines. Our tools include: Paraview, Pointwise, Latex, BibDesk, Keynote, Pages, LatexIt, Tower, Xcode, MacPorts + Gnutools, etc.

    5. Re:Physics is mostly Apple by dogmatixpsych · · Score: 1

      That's what I see in neuroscience (neuroimaging specifically). Mostly Apple laptops and a mixture of OS X and Linux on desktops. It's a lot easier to use Macs when most of the tools of Linux (plus those of OS X and Windows) are available on one machine.

    6. Re:Physics is mostly Apple by toQDuj · · Score: 2

      I recently switched from Matlab on the mac (I had been using it for about 8 years) to Python. I got fed up with the Matlab license annoyances (it was much easier to install a cracked version than to install the official server-authenticated version) and the artificial limitations. I would recommend Python, which is UI-wise slightly less polished, but otherwise equally or more capable than Matlab for my purposes! I even managed to get a factor of 20 speed improvement in a monte-carlo method I wrote.

      Go install the free academic version of EPD on your mac, start following the "learn Python the hard way" for a couple of chapters, and you'll be up and running in no time. Use matplotlib for plotting capabilities.

      --
      Every experiment which ends in a big bang is a good experiment.
    7. Re:Physics is mostly Apple by ajfa944 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      As another research scientist at a major US lab, I can't agree with this more. Scientists and academics adopted macs over the last 6 years for these main reasons:
      - bash unix environment
      - good user interface, better for personal use than Linux variants
      - laptops had state-of-art hardware (though, not so much anymore) and excellent battery life (still the case)
      - academic discounts

      Of these, the bash unix environment is by far the most important for scientists. This means that they can write a program or script on their personal machine, and it will more or less behave the same way on the Unix computing resource. This is enormous -- and the main reason we put up with overpriced, non-expandable hardware from Apple.

      If Microsoft wanted to sway millions of research academics away from Apple, they would need to ditch the DOS underpinnings that remain in Windows and switch to Unix conventions. I don't see this happening anytime soon, but at least Microsoft is no longer covertly trying to sue Linux into oblivion the way it was a decade ago.

  37. Yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Plain and simple. Apple products don't play nice in an enterprise network, from passive resistance (no support for domain-controllers/Group-Policys etc) to active violance like spewing ._* and .DS_Store files across the fileserver that annoy the hell out of windows users (the later can be turned of, but the user has to play nice for that, and the first can't be turned off, TheGreatSteve has decided that they are needed, no matter if you delete them...). Dumbing down their few REALLY professional Products (like Final Cut) does the rest.

  38. Collateral sucess by mseeger · · Score: 1

    Someone once explained to me, that sales in enterprise IT are considered collateral success by Apple.

  39. schools and business use as well by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1236352

    read post 6

    what a joke.

    Apple needs mac os sever for any VM

    1. Re:schools and business use as well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Curious as to where you got this information from regarding "any VM" ..

      Perhaps you are referring to the fact that apple now has a specific provision to *ALLOW* osx run as a VM as long as your using osx server as the host OS. ( Previous versions disallow running osx as a guest OS on ANY hardware.

      I run several VM's on my macs without using 'server'.

    2. Re:schools and business use as well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Post #6 is completely wrong. EDU doesn't buy their stuff from the Mac App Store. They buy their stuff from Apple volume sales and EDU channels.

    3. Re:schools and business use as well by RatherBeAnonymous · · Score: 1

      It's a joke because there is no server-grade Apple hardware. Apple has allowed OSX VM's as guests on OSX host machines for many many years

  40. Audio Pros are so silly. You dont need a Mac! by Jackie_Chan_Fan · · Score: 1

    Audio Pros are all snobs. You dont need a mac. Buy a pc, there is plenty of great hardware and software for it that rival a mac with ancient protools.

    Nuendo... learn it.

    1. Re:Audio Pros are so silly. You dont need a Mac! by Osgeld · · Score: 1

      including ... Protools for windows! OMFG

    2. Re:Audio Pros are so silly. You dont need a Mac! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the audio world it really just comes down to user preference. Hardware and software choices are abundant and the requirements are minimal. There is a wealth of DAW software for all users and vst/vsti plugins are typically cross platform. It really comes down to what you already know or what is easiest for you to learn as it's really all the same stuff just put together differently.
          Mobile software has taken leaps as well. Some really cool synths available for the iPad, such as the Korg iMS20. Play with that guy forever - all kinds of fun! Hell, you can make music on your cell phone/tablet with sequencers like ULoops and many others i forget at the moment. Don't get me wrong that's not touching the professional level but the things you can do now you just plain couldn't a few years ago. The future is going to be pretty amazing if we aren't all swept up by the apocalypse.

    3. Re:Audio Pros are so silly. You dont need a Mac! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if you think of buying a notebook destinated to audio, then what vendor would you buy from?

    4. Re:Audio Pros are so silly. You dont need a Mac! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Audio Pros are all snobs. You dont need a mac. Buy a pc, there is plenty of great hardware and software for it that rival a mac with ancient protools.

      The only time I'd ever book a room with a Microsoft Windows system is if I wanted somewhere to do my accounts. Why would I want to use an inferior OS that can "rival a Mac" when any pro room already has an Apple machine?

      I couldn't give a shit which DAW you use. PT, Reaper, Logic, Ardour (Mixbus)... print any moves and effects and STFU. The my DAW is better than your DAW arguments are pathetic, either your work is good and holds up or it isn't.

    5. Re:Audio Pros are so silly. You dont need a Mac! by elbiatcho1 · · Score: 1

      Reaper!

    6. Re:Audio Pros are so silly. You dont need a Mac! by ScrewMaster · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Audio Pros are all snobs.

      Well, that's a problem with elitism in general, and is hardly limited to Apple users, but they're guilty of it. In the real world, a dispassionate evaluation of one's own requirements generally results in better purchasing decisions, a close match between work requirements and the equipment meant to service them. That's one complaint I have with the Apple-using community: they tend to see all problem domains as having the only solution in terms of Apple. When your only tool is a hammer ... well. The world of computing is vast, the needs of users varied, and the products of one single company cannot reasonably be expected to serve the needs of everyone.

      The other aspect to that mindset is the ability to rationalize away faults and missing capabilities. Blows my mind. I've had more than a few conversations with Apple users that usually run along these lines:

      "How come your nav is still talking? You're playing an MP3 and browsing the Web."

      "Multitasking."

      "Huh. Well, mine doesn't do that ... but why would you want to?"

      "???"

      Yes yes, I know I'm talking about an early iPhone, that's not the point. I'm talking about attitudes here, not the hardware.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    7. Re:Audio Pros are so silly. You dont need a Mac! by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      Audio Pros are all snobs. You dont need a mac. Buy a pc, there is plenty of great hardware and software for it that rival a mac with ancient protools.

      The only time I'd ever book a room with a Microsoft Windows system is if I wanted somewhere to do my accounts. Why would I want to use an inferior OS that can "rival a Mac" when any pro room already has an Apple machine?

      I couldn't give a shit which DAW you use. PT, Reaper, Logic, Ardour (Mixbus)... print any moves and effects and STFU. The my DAW is better than your DAW arguments are pathetic, either your work is good and holds up or it isn't.

      Face it, OS support for such applications isn't really an issue anymore. I/O performance, memory management, stability, those are all old problems long since resolved for most environments, so calling Windows or Linux an "inferior" operating system is ridiculous. They're superior in certain regards (the user interface is not the only part of an OS, you know ... it's just the part you see.) What you may more legitimately claim is that the applications that exist on one platform or another are superior. I'm not going to argue with you there, but the "Mac is intrinsically better just because it is" position doesn't hold water anymore. Too much depends upon what a given individual does, and how they do it, to make generic claims of "better". Not today. Ten, fifteen years ago sure.

      Different strokes for different folks.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    8. Re:Audio Pros are so silly. You dont need a Mac! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Face it, OS support for such applications isn't really an issue anymore. I/O performance, memory management, stability, those are all old problems long since resolved for most environments, so calling Windows or Linux an "inferior" operating system is ridiculous.

      Linux, ffado, jackd and ardour with a lighweight desktop makes for a great audio set up, it's just too much trouble to maintain. Microsoft Windows is inferior to both.

      (the user interface is not the only part of an OS, you know ... it's just the part you see.)

      Really..?. I thought the part I couldn't see was powered by invisible midgets hiding under my desk?

      "Mac is intrinsically better just because it is" position doesn't hold water anymore.

      I never said that, I said "OSX" which (mock condescending tone) is an operating system. In terms of hardware you're still wrong because Apple hardware is properly grounded, filtered and shielded. Generic PC hardware, you're taking pot-luck. Any switched mode power supply with inadequate EMI filtering is a problem best solved by throwing the offending device in the trash.

    9. Re:Audio Pros are so silly. You dont need a Mac! by King_TJ · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but I disagree.

      Sure, you can use a generic PC to do your audio recording, but as many of my musician buddies discovered, you also open a huge can of worms revolving around such issues as latency and stability. If you don't have an expert's known good configuration to copycat when building your own setup, chances are you'll be in for MANY hours of tweaking, messing with configuration settings, and swapping different peripherals around before you get something you can really count on.

      There are companies out there specializing in selling you ready-to-go hard disk recording systems on the Windows platform, but you'll typically find they charge a lot for them (at least comparable pricing to a Mac).

      For starters, the on-board sound on most PC motherboards isn't going to be adequate. Sure, some of them now have an optical output. But the audio drivers made for most of them aren't exactly rigorously tested in environments doing a lot of recording. If anything, they're optimized for sound output from some of the more popular games, and given brief testing with programs like Skype for input. When you add your PCI "pro audio" card to it, you're immediately entering the realm of potential incompatibilities and driver issues, especially when coupled with potential hard disk issues. (Have one of those popular "green" SATA drives? Good luck ... they tend to spin down when idle, causing lag time when you hit that record button and need it to start recording NOW.) Now add in the potential need for a MIDI card so you can record what's being played from a synth or electronic drum set. Everything still keeping up ok when working in tandem?

      The Mac can suffer from some of this too, obviously -- but it's just not as common a problem. Unlike Dell or HP, a typical Mac is already designed out of the box for music recording use, at least at an amateur to "pro-sumer" level, with software like GarageBand pre-installed. The pro-audio gear for Macs has a better chance of working properly too, because they only have to test it with a limited selection of machines, and with fewer Macs sold to begin with, they either get it right and become a popular choice, or they quickly disappear.

  41. More than that... by F69631 · · Score: 1

    It's not just the "just a toy" claim. The phrases before that are even more telling

    My boss upgraded to Lion, and I used it for about two minutes before deciding to stick with Snow Leopard for the foreseeable future

    Even if the "two minutes" is an exaggeration... Practically any UI change, for example, feels difficult at first, even if it ends up being a lot better once you've gotten used to it. (It took me a month to stop hating the ribbon UI of MS Office even though I now consider it mostly positive thing) Deciding "I won't try this" about an OS in a matter of minutes is just silly.

    1. Re:More than that... by binary+paladin · · Score: 1

      Personally, I LIKED all the UI changes in Lion right away with the exception of shrinking the "stoplight" buttons and the fact that the pill button that removes the toolbar has been removed and replaced with the full screen mode button.

      But you are right, some annoyances are just annoying because they're different. I'm generally kind of excited by new stuff so long as it isn't a major hinderance (and it usually isn't).

    2. Re:More than that... by Skreems · · Score: 1

      Practically any UI change, for example, feels difficult at first

      The Ribbon on MS products feels difficult because it IS difficult. Instead of a menu where you're scanning a bunch of equally sized elements with text, you're scanning a bunch of unevenly sized buttons with text and icons (which often are irrelevant or misleading). In addition, nesting options on the ribbon are often signaled in conflicting ways, and the overall grouping us much more broad, and therefor less sensible than with regular menus. With enough practice you can work around it, but even after years with it, I've never found it easier to use than traditional menus.

      By contrast, another fairly major UI change in the MS space is the restructured start menu and task bar in Windows 7, and in that case almost everybody who's tried it has been won over immediately. They combined concepts (running apps and pinned launchers), removed data, shuffled some things around, and made it MORE clear than it used to be.

      I don't buy that a UI change necessarily has to be jarring. Yes, the bar is higher to make the concepts more clear than they used to be, but if it's done right it can be an intuitive change at the same time as an improvement.

      --
      Slashdot needs a "-1, Wrong" moderation option.
      The Urban Hippie
  42. silly by Weezul · · Score: 1

    What dumb ass "creative professional" does all their work on a laptop screen? You want either a desktop machine or a macbook plugged into a desktop monitor and keyboard.

    Apple computers are slightly overpriced, but they're built better, and the offer a nicer OS. Apple monitors otoh are insanely overpriced and offer nothing beyond what's available from other manufacturers, well slightly reduced cable clutter. Apple only sells monitors because some morons pay through the nose so their monitor's case matches their computer's case.

    --
    The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
    1. Re:silly by mikestew · · Score: 1

      only sells monitors because some morons pay through the nose so their monitor's case matches their computer's case.

      No, I paid through the nose because when I went to buy a 27" monitor to set next to my 27" iMac, I found exactly three choices that did better than 1080. The NEC, though I'm sure it's pro-level, quality kit, was insanely priced. The Dell was about the same price as Apple, maybe less with a discount, and about the same quality. So, for about the same amount of money I just bought the Apple.

      Where are these cheap, >1080 27" IPS monitors you imply everyone is making?

    2. Re:silly by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What dumb ass "creative professional" does all their work on a laptop screen?

      What dumb ass 'technical know-it-all' doesn't understand the value of having a portable workstation?

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    3. Re:silly by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      How are they "insanely overpriced"?

      Dell sells an almost identical panel to the one in the Thunderbolt and LED Cinema display and the price is almost identical, and the Apple displays even throw in a magsafe connector and a set of connectors (USB on the cinema display, USB/Firewire/Thunderbolt/gig ethernet on the Thunderbolt display).

      So, unless Dell (and a couple of other manufacturers who also sell them at the same price) are also "insanely overpriced" for their monitors too, I can't see how you can make that claim with any accuracy.

    4. Re:silly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In most areas, the LED Cinema display (now Thunderbolt) is priced 30-50% above the U2711. Sometimes more. There are some areas where I've been unable to get any meaningful difference between them - but you usually can. Considering however that the U2711 is VESA compatible, and comes with a far better stand - it still remains the arguably superior option. I'm not sure Apple has even fixed the Cinema vs. iMac alignment issues yet.

    5. Re:silly by DarkXale · · Score: 2

      Depends on location. Beats me why, but you can get the U2711 for the equivalent of 600 dollars easily in Sweden for example. Cinema display at its best is 950. And for that spare money, I'd buy a good quality Monitor Arm.

    6. Re:silly by mikestew · · Score: 1

      Considering however that the U2711 is VESA compatible, and comes with a far better stand - it still remains the arguably superior option. I'm not sure Apple has even fixed the Cinema vs. iMac alignment issues yet.

      Both the iMac and Display are VESA compatible, albeit with a $27US adapter (it is Apple, after all). I've got both on monitor arms, which is why I forgot about the stupid, stupid misalignment between the two.

      Looks like the price difference got bigger, as you point out. $170US to over $200 difference depending on where one looks. When I was looking pre-Thunderbolt (six months ago?), $100 was the biggest discount I could find.

    7. Re:silly by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 0

      What dumb ass "creative professional" does all their work on a laptop screen?

      This "dumb ass creative professional" for one. I only designed the studio monitor of the decade on a 17" HP laptop with no external screen. The recording monitor that is Alan Parson's personal choice for all recording/mixdown needs. And then I used the same laptop as a measurement platform for the Audio Precision and CLIO systems used during development and testing.

      What dumb ass slashdotter assumes that everyone needs monster screens and gee-whiz setups? Other than one named weezul that is...

      PS: No Apple products were used in the creation of the aforementioned studio monitor. All HP hardware, all Windows software. All for under $1000 (hardware and software). Why? Because OSX simply does not support the tools REQUIRED to be the creative professional who can dream up and implement the technologies and ideas needed to create the monitor of the decade.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    8. Re:silly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was thinking of buying a pair of Opals, but now I'm concerned that projects I'd mix on them wouldn't translate and would sound bitter, fearful, and insecure.

    9. Re:silly by Solandri · · Score: 1

      What dumb ass "creative professional" does all their work on a laptop screen? You want either a desktop machine or a macbook plugged into a desktop monitor and keyboard.

      That's circular reasoning. Once upon a time, you could do professional work on a laptop screen. The older Macbooks and the IBM Thinkpads had options for matte hi-res IPS panels with color rendition as good as if not better than you could get with a desktop monitor. They were great if you were at a photo shoot on location and wanted to preview, check lighting, do some quick touch-up work to see if you'd be able to correct a flaw later, etc.

      Since then, Apple has switched to mostly TN panels in their laptops, and Thinkpads now cater to the mainstream consumer, making them unsuitable for professional work. This forces professionals to stick to desktop monitors for their work. Which is the whole point of TFA.

    10. Re:silly by swalve · · Score: 1

      Who wants an IPS screen? Seems like they are more expensive and have worse response times.

    11. Re:silly by mikestew · · Score: 1

      Better viewing angle and better color reproduction are the advertised benefits. I just think they look better. Response times don't matter to me, as I rarely play games on this machine. That said, Portal 2 and Left for Dead 2 look just fine to me.

    12. Re:silly by toddestan · · Score: 1

      They have a better picture, and response times haven't mattered (in the sense that even the worst monitors are good enough) since about 2006.

    13. Re:silly by toddestan · · Score: 1

      The biggest problem with a laptop screen is the ergonomics. Being hunched over a laptop screen and keyboard for hours starts to get uncomfortable. Sure, sometimes you've got no choice, but otherwise I vastly prefer working on a monitor, keyboard and mouse. The next biggest problem with laptop screens is nowadays you can't get a decent resolution screen in a non-massive laptop, but that's another rant.

    14. Re:silly by Catnaps · · Score: 1

      Actually, quite a lot of DJs such as Armin van Buuren use a Macbook while travelling around for that specific purpose- work. I think he uses Logic on the go but I might be wrong.

    15. Re:silly by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      And that's perfectly cool - it's what you prefer. Of course, I'm not going to call you a dumb ass creative professional because you don't use the setup I use. That's my beef with the original poster - if you didn't subscribe to his vision of how things should be, then you're a dumb ass. That kind of group-think is really detrimental to any creative team - but unfortunately tends to be common, especially with Apple fans.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    16. Re:silly by Forbman · · Score: 1

      Oh, I don't know... the ones who know there's a dichotomy between their work and the rest of their lives, and are trying to keep that dichotomy in place?

    17. Re:silly by Doctor+O · · Score: 1

      To be fair, he has a point. If said professional is designing for print, there's no way he will *ever* have the colors of his notebook screen calibrated anywhere *near* the printed result. Color management is there for a reason, and it's *not* to just make the manufacturers rich. (That's a nice side effect, I'll admit.)

      --
      Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk?
    18. Re:silly by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      $1100 retail in the US.

      The other advantage is that it will seamlessly work with your OS. I have a Dell U2411, and it's always brighter than I want it to be and does not have autodim capabilities, or at least none that I've discovered as of yet.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    19. Re:silly by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      You're saying he has a point in a very small portion of a very large ... for lack of a better word, 'market'. In the mean time, when I go to work every day, I see a lot of 'creative professionals', many of whom are using their laptops. A good 3/4ths of the Mac users I encounter also have the anti-glare option. Modern laptop LCDs really aren't that bad when it comes to color reproduction and there's only a certain point where you really need that level of color accuracy you're describing. If you're taking a print design to your client and he says "Change this wording to that instead", you don't need to run back home and plug your machine into a particular monitor.

      'Creative Professional' is a very broad term. You'd be surprised how few color calibrators I actually run across given my line of work.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    20. Re:silly by Doctor+O · · Score: 1

      Maybe my definition of "professional" differs from the general understanding of the term. I've been CTO and COO of prepress and media production companies for quite some years and am now a consultant for a company providing software and consulting for media production processes. To me, somebody doing print design without color management simply is an amateur. The same goes for people dragging notebooks around just to have clients give them text changes in person. I haven't seen that (for non-freelancers) in at least a decade. Correction workflows are online nowadays, either per email, but more often through either CS Live or software like ours.

      I don't say this to invalidate your statements, just to add an obviously different point of view. What is that line of work in which you see 'creative professionals' like that?

      --
      Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk?
  43. It's all about specs by mark_reh · · Score: 1

    Not sure about Apple's lack of antiglare screens, but as I understand it, the sort of matte-finish antiglare screens always measure lower in contrast than glossy screens. Antireflective coatings that used to be fairly common on CRTs aren't routinely applied to the typically larger LCD screens because they limit viewing angle- colors start to shift when viewed from an angle because of the way AR coatings work. Apple goes to the extra expense of putting in IPS screens with extra wide viewing angles, so thy definitely won't want to screw that up with an AR coating. In the end it's all about specs for contrast and viewing angle, and what looks good in a store where the reflections can be somewhat controlled.

    I have a netbook with a glossy screen that's annoying as hell, so I applied an aftermarket AR film and it works beautifully.

  44. need a midtower and bigger mini by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 2

    The mac pro is about $1000 - $1500 over priced as it is and only 3gb ram at $2500?

    The mini is ok but it should be a little bigger for better cooling / easier to get to hdd are the 2 big things also bigger will give it room for desktop cpus / better video chips/ more ram slots.

    Base mini with 5400 RPM HDD's?

    The sever mini has quad and 2 hdd's but why do have to pay for sever and a 2th HDD just to get quad? and they it has Intel video but the mini other that has a low end ati chip but no quad (best is a Core i7 dual)

    Also a mid tower at $800-$900? $1000-$1500 with desktop cpu quad core or better with at least 2-3 pci-e slots 1 X16 dual wide for video card and maybe 1-2 x4 or x1 slots. 4 ram slots or 6 ram slots (if useing higher end i7's) 2 or more HDD bays, DVDRW or a bay for 1 also 1 or 2 TB ports.

    Maybe have have on board video with the base system having no video card.

    The mac pro can be the dual cpu (dual quad or better) 4 slot (at least all x16 or x8) system with 4 or more HDD bays. With the room for 12 or more ram slots.

    Maybe even room for dual high end video cards.

    The imac are ok but can we get a way to get to the HDD with out having to take the screen off?

    Have the Xserve come back or let mac os sever run on any hardware in a VM.

    1. Re:need a midtower and bigger mini by juosukai · · Score: 1

      No, Apple is not going to make a cheap tower. This has been quite clear for the last 5 years that people have been asking for one. You are either happy with the iMac or you are willing to shell out for the Mac Pro. A mid-tower just makes no financial sense for them, in terms of ROI, lost iMac/MacPro sales etc.

      And here is the catch: the current iMac is actually a pretty decent machine. You can get it with a nice GPU, you dont need to shell out for a screen and you get Thunderbolt, which will largely make those PCIe slots and HD bays redundant. At the moment the Mac Pro is worse than useless, a pimped out iMac gives you much more bang for your buck.

      The server software is a joke these days, no use is running it in a Virtual Machine. You are better off running Windows and the AD connectors for Mac. Apple had the window in somewhere 2007/2008 where a little push would have made OS X Server a brilliant piece of software. Instead they let it stagnate and never fixed those pesky problems with iCal, which made it a pain to administer. Never mind the selfexploding OD databases, rudimentary webmail and the hoops we needed to jum through just to allow users to set their own vacation messages. Sorry Apple, the server train passed.

      The only thing I would consider using OS X Server for is Xsan metadata-controllers, and maybe, MAYBE, OD. Everything else is easier to do with your run of the mill BSD/Linux/Illumos/your-unix-version/clone-of-choice or even Windows Server.

      Oh, and until Apple fixes their bugs with Solaris SMB implementations they are off my christmas card list. /jussi /jussi

  45. Xserve comeback or let sever run on any VM system by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    Xserve comeback or let sever run on any VM running on any hardware system.

    The mac pro sever is not a good system no lights out, no dual PSU, poor rack mounting system.

  46. What the hell are you talking about? by Brannon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Name a single thing you used to be able to do on Mac OS X that you can't do anymore on Mac OS X. They fumbled around with the new Final Cut Pro release--and they're trying to recover from that now. There is absolutely nothing else you can point to. You can still run Flash on OSX.

    The 'iLine' is a new line of products specifically targeted at the handheld/mobile market. It has different constraints and craves a different solution. In case you haven't noticed, they're doing pretty well. Millions of people who otherwise wouldn't be using smart devices now are; and it hasn't prevented anyone from doing anything they could do before on Macs or any other kind of computer. If you think there is something bad about a type of technology just because it is aimed at non-technical users; then you just flat out do not understand the point of technology. Like many other so-called nerds on this forum, you think the point of technology is to create some sort of exclusive club with a sign out front that says "you must know *this* much about tech to enter".

    BTW: if you are naive enough to think that the absence of web standards leads to a better, more democratic internet, then you are a lost cause.

    Nobody cares that you are having some sort of one-sided feud with Apple. What the hell is your deal with Turing, anyway? did you just watch some documentary?

    1. Re:What the hell are you talking about? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Name a single thing you used to be able to do on Mac OS X that you can't do anymore on Mac OS X.

      If you limit yourself to Apple software:

      • optical media authoring (DVD Studio Pro and iDVD are dead)
      • tape-based video (Final Cut Pro X is tapeless-only)
      • design and build web pages (iWeb is gone, as is DashCode)
      • generate HTML from your word processor (Pages did, but not anymore)

      And the alternatives are either Adobe or Microsoft, who build products that suck

    2. Re:What the hell are you talking about? by mark_elf · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is a narrower issue. I am a professional editor and VFX artist, workflow supervisor, etc. I know our community is miniscule compared to the rest of the world. And we love iPhones, too. But from our point of view, we've been inhaling MacPro workstations and FCP licenses like crazy for years. We depend on them, but Apple's support for us has been on the downward slope for several years now. If Mac OS suddenly adopts a new document model and a bunch of other experimental stuff, and eviscerates FCP, and starts dumbing down MacPros, it creates a very serious bunch of question marks about the stability and sanity of our prime tech platform. It doesn't matter how much we loved or hated Jobs. For all the talk about how pro features are coming to FCX, that's getting old. We should not be having this conversation. Post houses are not waiting, they started jumping to Adobe CS5.5 right away. They are even going back to PCs, despite the codec issues and fear of windows. This is not actually fresh news. You are not seeing PC fanboys crapping on Apple here. You are seeing people whose livelihoods are in jeopardy.

    3. Re:What the hell are you talking about? by Brannon · · Score: 1

      Why not use the old FCP while waiting for FCX to catch up?

      Apple screwed up with the new FCX release, nobody is debating that. They deserve whatever anger that invokes--I don't think it's indicative of a broader strategy to kill all forms of creativity--which is what the post I was responding to was claiming.

      I don't know what you mean about a new document model or dumbing down of MacPros.

    4. Re:What the hell are you talking about? by Lord_Jeremy · · Score: 2

      The professional-oriented retailer I used to work at got a huge shipment of FCP boxes from Apple as soon as FCX came out, yet we're still on backorder with production houses. Apple has promised one *last* shipment of FCP before they discontinue it entirely, licensed copies of it are already starting to get rare.

    5. Re:What the hell are you talking about? by zzatz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because FCX won't ever catch up. It's a question of scale.

      The old versions of FCP are designed to allow teams to work on projects. The new software is designed to be used by a single user. If only one person at a time is editing, the new version may well be better than the old version. That workflow matches how a huge number of people work, so it makes sense for Apple to focus on that market. From amateur home user to professionals working on smaller projects, Apple is moving in the right direction.

      For the broadcast market, it's the wrong direction. If your work scales beyond one user per project, it's time to move on. Apple makes high margins on consumer electronics, lower but OK margins on home computers, and not much at all from businesses or government sales. Apple is going to focus on the market segment where they make higher profits, not the niche market with high sales and support costs.

      At one time, if it had an engine, Ford and GM made it. Ford sold tractors and airplanes. GM sold buses, locomotives, and heavy trucks. Those markets are willing to pay a higher initial price for products which last a long time and can be repaired and rebuilt over and over. The market for cars is different. People will junk cars after 10 years if they get a lower price up front. Consumers don't see cars as an investment used to make money, cars are an expense. Make it as cheap as possible and sell me a new one every couple of years, driving the latest model impresses people. Ford and GM still sell light trucks, and probably always will. But they got out of those other markets. Some of the technology may be the same, but each market demands a different set of trade-offs, a different way of doing business. It's easier to structure your business around one large market than try to do everything.

      Apple sells to consumers. They're good at it. If they sold vehicles, they'd sell cars. If you need the equivalent of a van or pickup, Apple is still in that market. But they won't, can't, scale up a pickup to a tractor trailer.

    6. Re:What the hell are you talking about? by mark_elf · · Score: 1

      The elephant is dead, it just hasn't fallen down yet. You can see why creative professionals spent about 5 minutes crying, then somberly went about trying to find solutions that didn't hold them hostage. Maybe this will be good in the long run, it might encourage Adobe to "make it pro". They've fixed a lot. And Avid is there too. There's a huge opportunity for little guys to come up with hackintoshes, and write better linux apps, and find new ways to fill the vacuum.

    7. Re:What the hell are you talking about? by optimism · · Score: 1

      Please mod parent up, for factually responding to GP's uninformed challenge. Thank you.

    8. Re:What the hell are you talking about? by ninetyninebottles · · Score: 4, Informative

      Name a single thing you used to be able to do on Mac OS X that you can't do anymore on Mac OS X.

      If you limit yourself to Apple software:

      Wait what? Why would you limit yourself to apple software? You mean to say that if Apple stops offering some feature in a product then, for people to use only Apple software those people are limited? How does that make any sense? You might as well say that for people who use only HP products you can't do any real video editing because HP doesn't make any decent video editing software. Man that's just full of crazy!

      On top of that, it's just plain factually incorrect. DVD Studio, iDVD, and Final Cut are all still available after a brief period where Apple stopped making them, then listened to users who said their needs weren't being filled and put them back up for sale until they can roll those features into the new product line. iWeb isn't gone it was updated 3 months ago and can be used to publish automatically to any site that supports FTP or publish to other sites by transferring the files in amore secure way. Dasshcode is still available although no one seems to use it. You're really trying to claim Apple is limiting users by not continuing the abysmal HTML export from their word processor? Seriously?

      And the alternatives are either Adobe or Microsoft, who build products that suck

      Or, you know, every other company on the planet. I don't even understand how wrongheaded you have to be to think that Apple not offering a few features in their own software packages limits the consumer, under the assumption that no other software vendors count. Bizarre.

    9. Re:What the hell are you talking about? by intheshelter · · Score: 0

      Just to reply to your bullshit, ignorant post.

      optical media authoring (DVD Studio Pro and iDVD are dead)
      -you can still buy the previous version of Final Cut Studio and these are included.

      tape-based video (Final Cut Pro X is tapeless-only)
      - see above reply

      design and build web pages (iWeb is gone, as is DashCode)
      -you can design and build web pages on numerous apps on OS X. Are you retarded?

      generate HTML from your word processor (Pages did, but not anymore)
      - Office for Mac

      You're either stupid or the worst liar ever

    10. Re:What the hell are you talking about? by jbolden · · Score: 1

      Well argued comment on Final Cut Pro. But of course by your own admission that is a small piece of the pro-market.

    11. Re:What the hell are you talking about? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please mod parent up, for factually responding to GP's uninformed challenge. Thank you.

    12. Re:What the hell are you talking about? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not a Mac user. Well, I have a second-hand PPC Mini running linux, but that doesn't really count. That was just to play with CHRP/PPC.

      However, these items seem suspicious:

      -you can still buy the previous version of Final Cut Studio and these are included.
      --For how long? Microsoft is always doing crap like that, and then dropping support for previous versions ASAP.

      -you can design and build web pages on numerous apps on OS X.
      --are these included? I don't think emacs/vi count for this discussion. The Wiki says that DashCode was included (up to Snow Leopard) with Mac OSX.

      - Office for Mac
      --that's totally not an OSX component.

      How about running PPC code? It seems that Lion doesn't even have that as an optional install. Would it kill them to include Rosetta? It's not like hard drive space is at a premium for OSes anymore. Besides, the Java people tell me that JIT is faster than native code.

      Maybe I'm just being picky but I'm tired of Microslop telling me that 16-bit support is no-go*, and then installing 20 gigs of Windows 7 on my hard drive. There's no room in all of that for a small 64/32/16bit thunking system? This sort of crud strikes me as more of the same.

      (* = running Windows XP under virtualization is NOT 16-bit support.)

    13. Re:What the hell are you talking about? by McD · · Score: 1

      Name a single thing you used to be able to do on Mac OS X that you can't do anymore on Mac OS X.

      Download the compiler toolchain without "registering".

      Xcode and all dev tools used to be free to all - bundled on the OS media as an optional install, or a free download. Now it's only available to "registered developers."

      Yes, it's a token bar to get over, but this more than anything is indicative of the problem with Apple's new mindset. OS X used to be an inviting place for anyone to create programs, they're now taking the first steps towards closing it off. "App Stores" are the next example of this - by creating a curated and "authorized" distribution channel, you cast suspicion on any other method of software distribution.

      This bothers me, not because I can't get over the bar, but because I don't want to live a software ecosystem where only "professionals" need apply. The end result of this is what we see in the iOS app store: trivial utilities that would have been open or gratis on any other platform are instead nickle-and-dime, or else free but invasive to your privacy trying to be ad-supported.

      --
      "Given the pace of technology, I propose we leave math to the machines and go play outside." -- Calvin
    14. Re:What the hell are you talking about? by smash · · Score: 1

      I just built a dashcode app on the weekend with the latest SDK, on my new macbook pro that has never had a pre-lion OS on it. So, uh... stop talking out of your arse.

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
    15. Re:What the hell are you talking about? by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      Name a single thing you used to be able to do on Mac OS X that you can't do anymore on Mac OS X.

      Download the compiler toolchain without "registering".

      "Download the compiler toolchain", or "download the current version of the compiler toolchain"? Yes, "I can download the latest version of the compiler toolchain without registering" is better than "I get a version of the compiler toolchain with the OS on my machine", but the latter is better than "I can't get any toolchain without registering", and, as far as I know, it was always possible. Did they ever offer the latest shiniest version without requiring an ADC account, with the requirement to register with ADC to get the latest shiniest version starting with Xcode 4.x? (BTW, I think I may have had to register to get this, but it's interesting that they've offered a free-as-in-beer version for a while now....)

  47. The short answer is yes. by cjcela · · Score: 1

    It looks to me that Apple has been focusing on revenue for the last 3 or 4 years, alienating some of their users, while polishing, simplifying, and dumbing down their product line. This is too bad. They have an incredible operating system, and an amazing level of integration between their services, hardware, and software - but as their products become more mainstream, the demographics of their user base is changing, and I would say that Apple markets itself more as 'hip' these days than 'professional'. The sad thing is that in this process, they forgot where they came from. It use to be 'think different', and now, there is hardly a more conformist crowd than the Apple customers.

  48. Most of Apples "Professional" software... by Phizzle · · Score: 1

    ...is not from Apple... Turning the "Final Cut Pro" nerfing into a broad argument for a dumbing down conspiracy is a bit much. The one thing that Apple has done consistently over the years is treat all of their software developers like competitors and all of the 3rd party hardware developers like enemies. The path of Apples success is littered with corpses of once supporters like Supermac, Radius, RasterOps and many others.

    --
    I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.
  49. Finally... by Dark+Lord+of+Ohio · · Score: 1

    Macs for the masses.

  50. They've already driven away the geeks! by Richard_J_N · · Score: 2

    Apple has already been highly successful in alienating all the geeks (I include myself in this) and pushing them over to android (and to developing for it, and recommending it to their friends). Policy decisions which drive the "love the product; hate the company" would include:
        - constant lockdown of iDevices. (yes, we understand that jailbreaking should only be for the techies, should be warranty-voiding, and should not be easy for
            "grandma" to do by accident and then get upset about the consequences, but if we really want to, we should be able to).
      - making it so hard for iPods to work on Linux - why can't they help out the libgpod devels by publishing specs.
      - support for patents in general, and litigating against the competition rather than competing fairly. Also, DRM (though they've now mostly learnt that lesson).
      - iTunes not working on Linux (or under Wine).
      - not giving back as much as they take. Yes, Darwin is BSD, so it's legal, but it's really not cool to give back so little.
      - killing off the "hacker" culture that they began with. Apple's hardware is really hard to tinker with: of course some of this is just because it's harder to experiment with a BGA A4 CPU than a DIL socketed 68k, but at least making parts available to hobbyists, and not suing them, would be a good start!

    Finally, a personal gripe: Apple have lead the industry into making sure that only shortscreen-LCDs are available on any new hardware. I want 16:12 aspect, not 16:9 (and no doubt soon to be 16:8) !
     

    1. Re:They've already driven away the geeks! by codepunk · · Score: 2

      over to android ... lol come now

      The android market is fantastic if you are wanting to distribute software. If you are wanting to get paid for writing software, well good luck with that.

      --


      Got Code?
    2. Re:They've already driven away the geeks! by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      over to android ... lol come now

      The android market is fantastic if you are wanting to distribute software. If you are wanting to get paid for writing software, well good luck with that.

      Not really. The GP is right, if nothing else because the market for Android software is substantially larger, and there are multiple markets. It's a different environment than Apple's way, but it can be profitable if you know what you're doing.

      Furthermore, Google responded to developers complaints that too many potential customers would only use a piece of software for a day and then return it for a refund. So they changed the refund window to 15 minutes. That thoroughly pissed off the customer base, but they did it to accommodate developers. So now what are they whining about? The situation is just about as bad for users as the Apple store: it's really easy to buy a piece of software and get your fingers burned. How can you evaluate an application in fifteen minutes?

      I got news for you: the guys who are writing good software are making money. I don't see any reason why yet another Arnold Schwarzenegger soundboard should make a single penny. What people are pissed about is that the bar for making money on software is higher as the market is maturing (and users are becoming more aware of what constitutes good software), and that's how it should be. Quality should be and is being rewarded: the crap isn't. And you'll note that most of the folks complaining about not being able to make money are the ones pushing crap.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    3. Re:They've already driven away the geeks! by fostware · · Score: 1

      As opposed to Apple's

      "If you are wanting to donate sales for writing software, well good luck with that."

      --
      "We know what happens to people who stay in the middle of the road. They get run over." - Aneurin Bevan
    4. Re:They've already driven away the geeks! by Stupendoussteve · · Score: 1

      Out of curiosity, what is Apple not giving back? Other than the core user interface and windowing environment which is not surprisingly quite proprietary, most of OS X is available for download on their open source page, and if you work at it you can build a working Darwin system. I always get the feeling that people saying Apple doesn't give back have never actually looked.

    5. Re:They've already driven away the geeks! by Richard_J_N · · Score: 1

      It's not really so much a failure to give back specific things (though honestly, a pretty GUI would seem a fair exchange for a stable kernel); it's the locking people out. The closed specifications are far worse than the closed-source GUI. I don't mind that Apple don't provide source for the pretty bits of OSX; what I object to is that they don't provide documentation on how to get an iPod to work with Linux, or that they don't provide instructions on how to root an iPad. They're also a really bad technical influence on the ecosystem, for instance by blocking Ogg from the iPod, or spoiling HTML5 video by getting out the patents.

      I don't expect Apple to work for me for free; what I expect is that they don't add deliberate misfeatures to reduce the utility and hackability of a product I might buy, and that they don't work to undermine the open-source community.

    6. Re:They've already driven away the geeks! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So your gripes are they don't make software for your platform and don't publish specs to make it easier for others to take their users; don't give enough back (what's Webkit? chopped liver?); and locking down devices (which I think makes devices better for most people although I jailbreak my own machines)

    7. Re:They've already driven away the geeks! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple has already been highly successful in alienating all the geeks (I include myself in this) and pushing them over to android (and to developing for it, and recommending it to their friends).

      I disagree. As a long-time geek, I love that OSX is unix based and has a real shell installed by default. (cmd.exe? really?)

      - support for patents in general, and litigating against the competition rather than competing fairly. Also, DRM (though they've now mostly learnt that lesson).

      Patents, sure, I agree. Gripe about DRM if you want, but Apple's consistent pressure on the record labels is probably the only reason there are so many DRM-free ways to buy music today. The original iTunes store was freakin' genius negotiating. If you don't think so, you have a very short memory.

      - iTunes not working on Linux (or under Wine).

      Even true geeks can't make a user-friendly Linux. I love Linux, but I won't pretend it mass market. It's a joyful, chaotic mess for those of us who want to get our hands dirty to the elbow. It's _not_ for grandma.

      - not giving back as much as they take. Yes, Darwin is BSD, so it's legal, but it's really not cool to give back so little.

      What about WebKit? There's also other stuff at http://www.macosforge.org/

      - killing off the "hacker" culture that they began with. Apple's hardware is really hard to tinker with: of course some of this is just because it's harder to experiment with a BGA A4 CPU than a DIL socketed 68k, but at least making parts available to hobbyists, and not suing them, would be a good start!

      It's hard to optimize the form factor and allow hardware tinkering. If you like to tinker with software, though, it's a great platform. Xcode is a different take on things than Visual Studio or Eclipse, but it's really well thought out once you spend time learning it. You can go from scratch to a profitable business with very little money (but some investment in learning how to write apps people actually want to use).

      Finally, a personal gripe: Apple have lead the industry into making sure that only shortscreen-LCDs are available on any new hardware. I want 16:12 aspect, not 16:9 (and no doubt soon to be 16:8) !

      Hollywood and HDTV had nothing to do with this, it's strictly on Apple.

    8. Re:They've already driven away the geeks! by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      It's not really so much a failure to give back specific things (though honestly, a pretty GUI would seem a fair exchange for a stable kernel); it's looking for an excuse to bitch because it's Apple.

      FTFY.

      what I object to is that they don't provide documentation on how to get an iPod to work with Linux

      Which would be a great point, if Apple had ever advertized the iPod as working with Linux. But that's okay, I'll just go cruise over to the Games section on Slashdot and read about all the people complaining that Nintendo hasn't provided tools to install Linux on the Wii or DS platforms...

      ...oh wait, I wont. Because this complaint is aimed at Apple. and only at Apple.

    9. Re:They've already driven away the geeks! by Richard_J_N · · Score: 1

      I don't think you are quite seeing the point. Apple have built a large amount of their success based on the hacker-culture/BSD/GCC/etc. In return, it seems fair to expect them to "play nice" with that culture from which they benefited.

      In this example, I'm not asking that they should do lots of work to make iTunes run on Linux (although as a customer, I might want that too!); what I'm asking is that Apple should release the specs and be generally helpful to the libgpod folks. This would cost them almost nothing. Instead of which, they actively invest engineering effort in making the products harder to modify.

      To summarise:

      1. Imho, it's bad karma for Apple to be so uncooperative with the hacker-community. They do give back what they are obligated to, but in a very narrowly focused, rather than principled way.

      2. As a geek and a potential apple customer, my purchases (and my time, development-effort, and recommendations) are not going to Apple because of some deliberate decisions on their part to make me not want to be a customer. This is all the more annoying because the openness-features that I want would be easy to implement, and would not negatively impact any of their existing customer-base.

    10. Re:They've already driven away the geeks! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uuhhhmmm... yeah. Apple has driven away the geeks from iPhones to some extent maybe... but even geeks, though they like hacking on stuff, also sometimes want things that work. The iPhone mostly works damned well for what it was designed to do. (And it sucks horribly for some other things, like having skype actually stay running in the background so you could get a damned incoming call)...

      Anyway, they haven't pushed people away from their computers much at all though. They came out with the Mac Mini for grandma, cheap-asses, and those of us who want something to hook up to the TV. They came out with the iMac for people who want an all-in-one desktop that's easy to set-up and use, they came out with Macbook air for people like me who want a small portable thing that can take a bit of a beating (i.e. no HDD death). They came out with the 17" MacBook pro for people with too much money... erm no I mean for people who want/need a desktop replacement that is semi-portable. They came out with the Mac Pro desktop for people doing video editing, etc. And geeks like their systems because
      1. They are unix, and are scriptable, hackable, etc.
      2. They still run Photoshop, MS office, Skype etc. - all the fancy things your friends/work/school will want you to have even if you are Mr. GNU, that don't either don't run or have old/half-supported versions on Linux.

      It's not that Mac OS X is super fantastic, it's that windows sucks so bad, and somehow it isn't year of the desktop for linux yet.

    11. Re:They've already driven away the geeks! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      These ``grips'' are just a bunch of out of touch with reality, utter bullshit. Fuck off and keep using Desktop Linux. How the *hell* does this rubbish keep getting moderated up??

    12. Re:They've already driven away the geeks! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My god you are *totally* full of shit! (I'll bite: the Mach Kernel was created in a Uni lab by Avadis Tevanian, Jobs hired him immediately when NeXT started up in 1986 and used it as the NeXSTSTEP OS kernel, Apple buys NeXT, continues to develop Mach, and also replaces the driver layer with a modern O-O C++ implementation called IOKit. All of this old and new code is open source, and frankly pisses all over the Linux driver model of copy and paste development--Linux kernel is design free zone). http://opensource.apple.com/

      2. As a geek ...

      You are simply *thick*. Fuck off and learn some history.

  51. upsetting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am so beside myself upset about apple that I just sprung for a new mac air. I mean for christ sake apple quit producing hardware that I really want to own.

  52. Yawn by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 1

    Same Apple complaints - different day.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  53. Branding by residents_parking · · Score: 1

    This is not a technology issue but one of branding. Apple needs to sell high-end pro tools to maintain brand attractiveness towards consumers - unless they're planning on total re-branding of Apple as merely a fashion label. (Some might say this has already happened.)

    For this reason the pro end cannot be sold off or left to wither. It must be kept in-house, but run with pros in mind. Digital media workflow is crystallizing, and if Apple won't provide tools, someone else will. Pros want device support, power, and innovation - in that order. That may mean sucking it up and accepting it as part of a grown-up tech business, something Apple don't seem to want to be as long as they can fleece the kids with this quarter's new shiny toy.

  54. You hit the nail on the head by jamrock · · Score: 1

    Apple is breathtakingly ruthless about killing off what it sees as legacy technologies, and I've always had the impression that they have no desire to be shackled to the backward compatibility train as Microsoft has been. Jobs was well known for being totally unsentimental, almost contemptuous, of the past, and when he became CEO of Apple in 1997, not only did he kill off a number of product lines and projects, he also donated Apple's large collection of historic products to the Computer History Museum.

    As Apple demonstrated with the then-new version of iMovie, when they decide to go in a new direction they simply make the leap, and devil take the hindmost. They infuriated untold numbers of iMovie fans when all of a sudden all their projects wouldn't work with the new version, but Apple's rationale was that the new iMovie provided the basis for an improved way of doing things, and they refused to hobble it by making it backward compatible. They gambled that it would lure enough users to their point of view that the discontent would blow over, which it eventually did.

    They took a similar gamble with Final Cut X. They were fully aware that it would probably alienate the entire professional editing community, not only because their projects wouldn't work with it, but because so many features they depend on were absent at launch, and worst of all, their years-long investment in polishing their workflow and expertise was suddenly out the window, and they'd have to start again from scratch. I'm still amazed that angry mobs of video editors didn't storm 1 Infinite Loop with torches and pitchforks.

    That being said, some professional reviewers were of the opinion that despite the fact that they couldn't and wouldn't recommend it for production because it was clearly unfinished, Final Cut X really was a huge leap forward and some of the features already present would lead to greater productivity. One reviewer (forgive me; I can't recall the link) predicted that while it would certainly alienate current professionals, it would eventually attract and give rise to a new generation of professional video editors, especially those familiar with iMovie, and that it would only be a matter of time before Final Cut X was once again the industry standard.

    To revisit the premise of this story, Apple made a conscious decision to potentially push away the current generation of professionals, because they're gambling that they can spur the rise of a new, larger generation. It's a bold, incredibly arrogant move on their part, but frankly I think they're going to pull it off.

  55. So buy elsewhere by sjbe · · Score: 1

    Apple's refusal to sell non-glossy screens and poor value hardware is fueling anger from professional Mac users

    So buy a screen from someone else. Not as if Apple even makes the LCD themselves anyway. Plenty of good screen options out there.

  56. hardware repair grief by atherophage · · Score: 1

    Apple hasn't had tech friendly desktop hardware in over a decade. School districts buy desktops in bulk. It's nice when the hardware can stack - (not counting laptops). It's cheaper if common tools can repair desktops; not suction cups and Torx drivers. Techs I work with whine if anything more than a phillips driver is needed. I feel Apple is forgetting the creative professional market and the educational.

    1. Re:hardware repair grief by PhunkySchtuff · · Score: 1

      Suction cups and sticky cleaning rollers are hardly common but I wouldn't call torx exotic...
      Personally I prefer a torx over an phillips head as it's easier to use and far less likely to cam out.

  57. I've been waiting for this by koan · · Score: 1

    The "Apple Bubble" has burst.

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
  58. Notebook Vendor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    nowadays, what notebook vendor would you choose?

  59. Troll much? by bahamat · · Score: 1

    Dumbing down of Final Cut Pro

    This is how Apple progresses. Rewrite the future generation from scratch with 80% features. Finish over the next few years.

    Refusal to sell non-glossy screens

    Anti-glare is the only option on the MBA, and MTO on the MBP.

    Poor value hardware

    You're joking, right?

  60. Anecdotal market surveys are pointless by Sebastopol · · Score: 1

    Whenever I read an article critical of how a corporation chooses to manage a market, I try to pay attention to where they glean their insight. As with this article, many use a few anecdotal interviews. Had the author backed up the assertion with an example of, say, a company with over 50 content creators switching to PC, then perhaps their claims would have merit. The very rare exception is a scientific survey (non-web-based). So without any kind of solid evidence, this is pure blog filler and naval gazing. Fun to talk about, but ultimately meaningless, which is fine. I would just rather read articles about market trends annotated with sources or reasonable proof.

    --
    https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
  61. Apple won't sell poor value hardware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Back up the train for a moment: "Apple's refusal to sell [...] poor value hardware..." Never mind the OS and hardware I'm buying, if I'm paying retail price for poor value hardware, I'd be enraged too. Why would I want to shell out retail prices for what turns out to be a 99 cent piece of @*(%? Apple has a reputation for quality precisely because Jobs refused to compromise on hardware quality. If you want cheap $)(#, then buy a PC for newbies at Walmart.

  62. Developers are going to the mac by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When my last engineering team demanded Macs they got them, but i stayed Windows. This time I jumped first.

    I have a new MacBook Pro w/matte screen and all the power you could ask for. it comes with svn, ant, java, c compiler, python, preinstalled. xcode is free. vi with tabs. pop-up man pages. no more cygwin. no more \ in dev, / in production. and a gorgeous UI. What's not to like?

    A week after starting I'm almost back to 100% productivity on the Mac. on Windows i'm having trouble not swiping. but that's Ok because it turns out that 15 years of developing on Windows isn't the limitation i thought it was. turns out you can switch pretty easily.

    Developers used to have to ask for good hardware. now getting better hardware costs less than the hourly-rate equivalent for me and the dev to have the conversation. maybe the Mac is a few hundred $ more expensive. or maybe the total cost of ownership is less. but in the grand scheme of things, who really cares?

  63. It started in the early 2000s... by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

    Apple is no longer a computer company, they're a consumer electronics company. Pros aren't the focus - the general consumer is. Computers are less than 20% of their revenues - they're now at the level of a Sony, in terms of distribution of revenue streams. Pros? Out of the way, there's general consumers to sell iPods, iPhones, and iPads to!

    --
    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  64. People are silly by FyberOptic · · Score: 1

    I'll never understand why there are people out there with some degree of technical skill who are still willing to pay such a high markup for Apple products, which are effectively low-quality Foxconn hardware in a shiny box, just to use OSX.

    Seriously, look on Google. You can have OSX running on an excellent set of PC hardware, for literally half the price or less, with a minor amount of effort required. And you'll probably learn something in the process. The hardware will be higher quality, and you can easily dual or triple boot Windows and Linux on it for compatibility with other software or games. For a person capable of doing it, you simply can't lose.

    At the end of the day, I think many of these people just don't want to admit that they buy into the whole Apple lifestyle intentionally, because they want a pretty machine which says something about them to others. And that's fine. But if that's the case, stop complaining about what you're buying and how much you're paying for it, because it certainly isn't Apple's fault that you gave them your money.

  65. Been saying this for years by CAIMLAS · · Score: 2

    Apple is not the same company it was even in the 1990s. Yes, it's more profitable. Yes, they have a wider range of products.

    No, they are not a computing company. I've made this argument here recently, and people argue the nitty points without looking at the broader picture.

    Apple does not produce a server platform (hardware + software). This right here should be telling: they make consumer products, not production products. Even their "Server" OS is quite lacking.

    Apple has been short-changing developers on their platform for some time, both with their developer programs for App Store and how they've made fairly drastic API changes without giving the bigger shops a forewarning.

    Every single one of Apple's products in the past 10 years has been a reductionism - a move towards minimalism. This is contrary to what a professional wants. Professionals need more, better tools, not fewer.

    Apple's consumer 'media players' intentionally lack features audio and video professionals would like, such as the ability to do what the Sony Discman could do 10 years ago (record high quality lossless audio). Playback quality is also significantly lacking.

    The distinction is nuanced, but there is a distinction. Apple doesn't really give half a shit to the nuanced or professional user. Many graphics professionals abandoned Apple a long time ago due to dick moves they pulled that made things difficult for eg. Adobe to continue producing software or for graphics artists to work effectively with the platform (threading, multiprocessing, etc.).

    Anyone who thinks Apple is still a "computing" company and not a "consumer electronic device" company needs to pay better attention. Apple has not done a single innovative thing in the world of computing for quite some time. Marketing, sales, and consumer products? Absolutely - they're incredible. But don't expect them to be the same company they were for professional needs in even the late 90s.

    --
    ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    1. Re:Been saying this for years by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      No, they are not a computing company. I've made this argument here recently, and people argue the nitty points without looking at the broader picture.

      It's been clear since the early success of the iPhone that Apple has been transitioning to a gadgets company (yes the iPod started it, but the iPhone cemented it). Mac OS X will go the away of iOS and eventually the Mac will be gone. They say Steve Jobs left them with a 4-year roadmap, so don't count on finding any Macintosh-branded products for sale after 2015 (expect a 2014 "it's been 30 good years" announcement).

      I'd been slowly transitioning away from Apple to Linux for desktop work since 2006, but it tool me until 2009 to finally sell my MacBook Pro (it'd been running Fedora for 6 months at that point). I still miss its refined interface pretty often, but I'm glad to not be skating to where the puck was.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    2. Re:Been saying this for years by Monoman · · Score: 1

      Agreed. We were talking about this a few weeks ago. Apple is not succeeding in the desktop (or server) computer market. However they are making a killing on portable devices. First the iPod, then iPhone, and now iPad. All devices which are much cheaper than Apple computers.

      Think about it. These devices can do everything the average clueless user wants from a PC. Browse the web, email, Facebook (I just threw up a little), play videos, etc. It is looking more like their goal is to win the war on home PCs by eliminating the need for them. Why have a PC at home and be chained to your desk when you can use one of these portable devices and use it anywhere in your home. You can even take it with you easily on trips.

      To respond to the OP. Yes it looks like Apple doesn't care much for the server market. They no longer make server hardware and the software is really cheap now. Perhaps they have abandoned it or have a long term plan. I don't know but their focus right now is clearly on the home consumer.

      --
      Keep the Classic Slashdot.
    3. Re:Been saying this for years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To draw the line under your opus: you are simply reflecting something that Apple themselves did when Apple dropped Computing from it's official name.

      Apple tried to be innovative with Newton and etc.. and they failed, that is why they bought NeXT, which paved the way for Jobs to return to Apple . I have in my professional life tried to be innovative and I failed too. In my humble opinion, it is simply not worth it.

      Think of this way — Google is a company run by engineers yet by the same measure of engineers they have done nothing innovative, aside from search. as well.

      They have redone e-mail with gmail, which by all engineering standards was unnecessary, since it wasn't fundamentally innovative. They have tried getting into the social sector by variously copying other apps and companies with buzz, wave and +1. Android was a response and a copy to iOs and the iPhone, quilty of pandering to consumers just like.

      The only place where Google is innovative is search — searching by dropping images to the search field. Search places with Google Maps, Google Earth etc..
      This underlines that companies need to focus on what they are good at for a chance of making something innovative succesful. This is exactly what Apple has done.

      Add to these factors the fact that geeks and techies are not seperate from consumers but are just a different segment of consumers that companies consciously calculate to avoid or to attract by analyzing what is beneficial to their cause of making money for shareholders.

      I think my last point is something that you guys do not get: professionals are not the antithesis of consumers, they are a subset of consumers. You still think you are special and different, well you are not — simply a category of all the consumers out there, expect to be treated just like any other group of consumers — sliced to pieces by marketing department and corporate executives on whether it is profitable to make products and services for you.

      That is what is extremely ironic — you talk of Apple's marketing powers in concending and stiff-upper-lip way — but you are the fools buying the "think different" message of needing to be treated as separate parts of humanity.

      Not true.

    4. Re:Been saying this for years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, this is exactly why the company changed its name from Apple Computer, Inc. to Apple, Inc.

  66. Hackintosh by afabbro · · Score: 1

    but if I could come up with a 'Hackintosh' with OS X

    Because that's so hard to do...

    --
    Advice: on VPS providers
  67. Thought that was obvious. by Going_Digital · · Score: 1

    Apple have for a long time now been heading down the mass market road, professional tools where people use a computer for serious work with complex applications is not what Apple is interested in any more. Such markets require a lot of investment to provide features for a relatively small market, many of the features missing from final cut pro X for example are probably only really used by a few thousand serious professionals worldwide. Apple has clearly decided that selling to a wider audience is more profitable. The more mass market tools they can get on their platforms the more hardware they will sell. So if Final Cut X is seen as an almost professional video editing system for a cheap price they could sell a million more macs, where as the perfect pro suite might net them a few thousand top end systems. A million more consumer level mac sales are far more valuable to them as their economies of scale go up, they can push the component prices down and make higher profits on every mac sold. OSX Lion has been dumbing down with features like versions and local snapshots that can't be turned off, I have stayed with snow leopard because Lion spends to much time trying to force me to do something its way rather then letting me choose how I want to work. Finally Apple stumbled across the app store model after the release of the iPhone, consumers pushed to install their own apps on the device and Apple reluctantly created the walled garden that requires you to pay to play and takes a cut from every app sold. What use is selling 1000 copies of Autocad via the app store even with a $300 commission when you can push out 5 million copies of some silly game that will get forgotten about in 6 months time and the next craze comes along and sells another 5 million copies. Apple is all about increasing market share, get as much hardware out here as possible to fuel the app store model and get as many mass market titles in the app store as they can to further extend the captive market for even more apps from the app store.

  68. Developers, by Latent+Heat · · Score: 1

    developers, developers, developers!

    1. Re:Developers, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      developers, developers, developers, developers.

      iTrinityd that for you.

  69. "Steve Jobs - Goose stepping lunatic" by DesScorp · · Score: 2

    Ever since the iLine, and Steve Jobs turning from a benevolent genius to a narcissistic, goose stepping lunatic, the scene has changed to apple being creative, and you can too, just as long as you're creative in the "Apple" sanctioned way.

    Do you know anything about Steve Jobs' history?

    He was always a "goose stepping lunatic", as you put it. He was always obsessed with his idea of perfection, to the point where many of the early software engineers on the Mac project absolutely hated his guts. If you disagreed with his ideas, you weren't just wrong, you were wrong, stupid, and bad.

    One of the reasons he was forced out at Apple the first time was that he was absolutely awful to work with (there's a bracing account in one of the biographies about him of a trip he took to Sony's floppy drive factory in Japan, and he made such an ass of himself that Mike Markkula puled him aside and reprimanded him).

    Steve Jobs was many things, but he was never, ever benevolent. He's always been a cult-of-personality dictator from his earliest days, and Jobs was always trying to push people into his vision of what genius and creativity was. This notion that he was some great supporter of freedom of computer users is nothing but marketing tripe. Jobs... and by extension, Apple... wasn't so much for freedom as they were for a world that they thought was cool, and they were going to make you pay plenty for the privilege of being part of it. You make it sound like Jobs was some kind of technical-artistic libertarian. Nothing could be further from the truth. Jobs wasn't fighting for your freedom to do things the way you wanted to. He was fighting for your dollars so you'd do things the way he wanted you to.

    The only difference between Early Jobs and Late Jobs is that Late Jobs was actually a good businessman, due to hard lessons learned from his money-losing experience at NeXT.

    --
    Life is hard, and the world is cruel
  70. Jobs donated NOTHING to CHM by Al+Kossow · · Score: 1

    "when he became CEO of Apple in 1997, not only did he kill off a number of product lines and projects, he also donated Apple's large collection of historic products to the Computer History Museum."

    He did no such thing.
    The contents of the Apple Library was given to Stanford University. The IL4 second floor was then taken over by Ive's group.
    With the exception of permission to release the MacPaint sources, CHM has never received anything from Apple, Inc.

    The small exhibit of Apple products, including the Apple II prototype, disappeared from the IL4 internal lobby one day after Jobs
    was rumored to have said "get this shit out of here".

    1. Re:Jobs donated NOTHING to CHM by jamrock · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the correction. I know he had demanded they be removed, but I don't know why I was under the impression that they had been given tot the Computer History Museum.

  71. "Pushing away" is a wrong verb here. by I'm+Not+There+(1956) · · Score: 1

    It's not a secret that professionals were a major target of Apple's marketing for a long time, and now things have changed.

    Most of Slashdot readers here might remember the time when "Pro" was among the items of apple.com's menu bar. Professionals were important to Apple then because they were the source of a considerable portion of company's revenue. Apple's main campaign then encouraged people to be different. Now it encourages people to buy an iPhone because everybody else have one. Because there's no need to focus on a niche market when you can have a major market.

    But Apple is not pushing anyone away. Why should it do that? It just doesn't put them at the top of their list anymore.

    --
    "If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it's still a foolish thing."
  72. Apple prototypes by Al+Kossow · · Score: 1

    "I was under the impression that they had been given tot the Computer History Museum."

    I've tried to find out what happened to them, without luck. Hopefully someone in facilities knew what they were and hid them somewhere.
    The prototypes in the lobby disappeared several years after the Apple Library was given away.

  73. Why do they complain ? by mAriuZ · · Score: 1

    Ubuntu app store is waiting for them

    --
    developer http://flamerobin.org
  74. market driven economy by pbjones · · Score: 1

    Apple doesn't have a virtual monopoly on the arts and graphics area that it once had, most vendors release stuff for Windoze and MacOSz, Adobe even does a number of Win only products and they used to be Mac only. Sadly it's about the market and as a HARDWARE and SOFTWARE bundling company, I would guess that in it's current business model, high end stuff must be a drag.

    --
    There was an unknown error in the submission.
  75. In a word... by PhunkySchtuff · · Score: 1

    Yes.

    Cancellation of the Xserve RAID, cancellation of the Xserve. Long product lifecycles for the Mac Pro. Abysmal support for Apple-branded Promise RAID.
    Refusal to sell a previous version of the OS, or support it on new hardware, the day a new version of the OS ships.
    Consumerisation of their pro software lines. Glossy displays on everything.

    Mac OS X Server - once was $1400 AUD in 10.5, dropped to $700 AUD for 10.6 and then dropped to $50 as an optional install in 10.7 - plus this includes a $1k license of Xsan too. I think this pricepoint shows the amount of attention it is going to receive in terms of development effort.

    1. Re:In a word... by iamacat · · Score: 1

      By your logic, Apple is not going to develop MacOSX because they only charge $29.95 for Lion. The current trend in software seems to be to go for low price and high volume. New pricing lets professionals run a Wiki server on their workgroup machine, if not individual desktops. Is it all bad?

    2. Re:In a word... by PhunkySchtuff · · Score: 1

      There's a big difference between an OS going from ~$100 to $40 to $30 and over $2k of professional software being sold now as a $50 add-on.
      I'm not complaining that I can now get OS X Server on my desktop machine, I'm just saying that there is a definite pattern in consumerising everything - there's a fair amount of stuff that has been dumbed down in the new OS X Server that makes stuff more difficult or impossible in some environments and I see this continuing.

  76. Seriously, calm down. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Final Cut Pro will be fixed by the next version, this is pretty much a given. Apple isn't stupid. As for matte screens, come on. Get an external display.

  77. Apple's refusal to sell non-glossy screens ... by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

    Any citations for that?
    I have a brand new Mac Book Pro, and if they stop selling non glossy screens, I would like to stock up 10 more before it really happens.

    --
    Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  78. Apple will drop environment from Logic X by jsepeta · · Score: 1

    I spoke with a couple of guys at Apple re: Logic, and it seems obvious that they're planning to drop the environment from Logic and make it a more consumer-friendly product. I couldn't give them a good enough reason for them to keep it, and they did not seem to care so much that I miss SoundDiver (a super-important tool in my studio which is filled with vintage synths). It might make sense to keep an older Mac running 10.4 around in the studio so I can do my fiddly-synth-programming stuff.

    --
    Remember kids, if you're not paying for the service, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING SOLD.
  79. They are talking desktop screens by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 2

    Which is where anti-glare is the most popular. Glossy makes some sense on laptops because you get better light transmission which means more brightness with less battery. Ok fine. However on a desktop screen, that's not an issue. You have more backlight than you need. Only real reason to go glossy is on cheap displays it is cheaper to do right. Well again, not an issue here, mac displays are high end. However they aren't just glossy, they are monkey-fuck retarded glossy because they have a glass cover.

    That's the issue. It isn't what professionals want either, it is what fanboys who like shiny things want. Go have a look at NEC's PA series of monitors, or Eizo's ColorEdge series, or LaCie's 300 or 500 series. All matte all the time. These are what professionals want (and use) they are designed with pro features in mind, like hardware calibration, quality IPS or VA panels, fully adjustable stands, and matte screens.

    Well Apple doesn't do that. They use good IPS panels, and charge a premium price, but they provide a simple tilt stand, no ability for calibration, and a highly glossy screen. That isn't what pros are after.

    Hence supporting the assessment of the "Apple pushing away professionals."

    1. Re:They are talking desktop screens by subreality · · Score: 2

      Actually, glossy doesn't improve the brightness at all. It improves contrast, by allowing deeper blacks. Matte gathers light from all angles and scatters it, making black areas slightly gray. Glossy screens reflect it without scattering. Most of the time that means it's reflected away from where you are, but when the light is behind you, you get a bright, sharp reflection which conceals information more than matte screens' even gray reflection.

      Glossy is actually best used on desktops where you don't have windows or other bright light sources behind you. For laptops you definitely want matte if you're ever going to use it outdoors or while traveling anywhere that might have too much light.

    2. Re:They are talking desktop screens by gilgoomesh · · Score: 1

      Glossy is also better brightness since every extra bit of coating (and matte is a coating) reduces the light permittivity. Granted though – brightness changes are not matte's primary effect.

      However with truly bright sources behind you, particularly direct sunlight, matte can reduce contrast so much that you literally can't see anything.

  80. Some consumers are not happy either.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I bought a Mac Pro when they first came out and were marketed as capable of "HD Video" editing. I already had 5+ years of SD digital home video and knew I'd upgrade to HD digital soon. Wanted a machine that would make it easy for me to make basic HD home videos - you know, the sort you insist on showing the relatives that have overstayed their welcome....

    At first I was thrilled - compared to Windows where I spent countless hours trying to restore what broke after every upgrade (of almost any bit of h/w or s/w) the Mac was trivial to administer. Had a RAID mirror up in an hour; drop into Terminal and write my own synch to get files in iTunes onto my Sansa; I had time for the fun stuff because I wasn't spending all my time fixing problems.

    Now, however, some 5 years later Apple still does a rubbish job of supporting HD video for plain old home video users:

    AVCHD - support is very limited. You can only import from an undamaged "camera archive" - you can't import AVCHD files themselves. Compared to Apple's usual standards of usability it's pathetic. Everything transcoded to 3X the size - no option to import and archive original AVCHD and only transcode clips you actually want to use in a project [I could build my own system for doing that, but then wouldn't see the archive in iMovie). There is also little or no useful documentation on AVCHD, particularly on transcoding back to AVCHD. It would be easy for Apple to help me out here - but they seem to go our of their way to make AVCHD hard/awkward.

    1080p - I can edit and save in 1080p but getting 1080p off my mac and into my living room (let alone to relative) is a nightmare. Can't use AppleTV (only 720p so far); can't burn a BluRay w/o spending a bundle on 3rd party h/w and s/w; My Oppo blu-ray player supports a variety of formats on USB, but as far as I can tell iMove can't create any of them (and 4GB FAT limit is problematic - if only I could transcode back to AVCHD....). Not going to drop $600 on a mac mini just to play home movies on my big-screen in 1080p.

    BluRay - As far as relatives are concerned it's the same as a DVD. A new player is $100 and anyone with a DVD player can upgrade easily. I know disc media is going away, but not before my daughter has grown up. In the mean time I'd like to send Grandpa HD video of his granddaughter. I'm way too private to put home videos on the Web - will never put terabytes (I'm just passing 1TB now) of personal data on servers someone else owns. Even if I did, there's no way Grandpa is going to set up something more complicated than a DVD. No help from Apple on this problem.

    HDMI - If only I could get Audio and Video over one wireless HDMI link from my Mac Pro to my TV (w/o spending a fortune). Apple seems to be allergic to HDMI - or at least resistant. Maybe it's just my old Mac Pro with DVI, but when I've looked I've not found inexpensive way to add HDMI.

    AVCHD, BluRay, HDMI - these are the consumer standards. They are now old standards. They are what everything except my Apple gear uses. Apple seems as intent on making it hard to use these standards as Microsoft seemed intent to break PalmO/S synching with every upgrade (even little patches) to Windows. As a consumer my patience is just about gone.

    So at the end of the day Apple has so isolated themselves from the rest of consumer electronics that creative individuals (and calling my birthday party videos creative is a real stretch) can't even do simple things like send a BluRay to Grandpa without having to practically become professional video editors - with a h/w and s/w budget to match.

    I'll never go back to Windows, but if I'm going to have to assemble all the parts needed to do what I want myself I might as well be using Linux. If Apple hasn't made my HD video life easy before this Mac Pro dies my next machine will probably run Linux.

    1. Re:Some consumers are not happy either.... by DMJC · · Score: 1

      HDMI IS DVI video signal-wise. However, if you have a Mac Pro, all you should need is a mini display port enabled video card and a mini display port -> HDMI adapter off of ebay. They are like $12.

  81. Re:You still use Latex?? by laffer1 · · Score: 1

    My employer still uses TeX (not even LaTeX) for everything. They're just starting to plan a migration to LaTeX. It's still highly popular in math and scientific communities. What do you suggest they use instead? MathML? LOL

  82. the mac pro must have like 1k+ proft per sale by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    based on what hardware it has vs what you can build / other systems.

  83. Well, two comments... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1) Regarding the OP, I don't know how he doesn't know that "hackintoshes" have existed for YEARS. If he wants to get one, then get one!

              2) Apple has pushed away professionals for at least 20 years. Artsy types went for Apples all along, but other than that it's been hit and miss in terms of meeting anyone else's needs either in terms of hardware or software all along. And I don't know how it's a surprise they are overpriced, they've been let's say "premium pricing" going all the way back to the Apple II. I have no idea why these complaints popped up now, because they've been a "problem" for almost 30 years. I put "problem" in quotes because these same people who complain Apple is not accomodating them keep buying Apples anyway.

  84. Re:You still use Latex?? by ettlz · · Score: 1

    Latex was a good if awkward choice when decent word processors and DTP apps couldn't handle scientific notation, but really, those days are long gone.

    As if. (La)TeX is still the best choice by a considerable distance, and "those days" are certainly not "long gone".

  85. True Tech Greats Pay Attention to the High End by dynamator · · Score: 1

    To earn a lasting place of in the pantheon of legendary technology firms, Apple should absolutely keep in the pro game.

    Toyota supports a stable of motorsport and racing teams. Eastman Kodak is still a major name in motion picture imaging. The HP of old build their business on test, measure, and medical gear. Corning is in your kitchen, and in the lab. Sony headphones are on every head in studio/production/post

    How can you claim your dogfood is really that good unless you let the top dogs take a taste?

    We're in an amazing time where the damn near the best ever computers, cameras, sound gear, and shoulder fired missiles are available to just about everyone to get their hands on. I pay attention to what pros really use for their tools of choice. (Motion - who the heck uses Motion over After Effects?) Except for shoes - I can lace on those Air Jordans and still have no hope of sinking a free throw.

  86. Apple are screwing professionals. by DMJC · · Score: 2

    I own a Mac Pro tower, Apple are definitely pushing away the professionals. Their video pipeline is top quality awesomeness. But... the Xeon based systems are WAAAAY overpriced. Apple want $1050 for 24gb of ram. I bought the same RAM from a normal vender for $300. ECC server ram 1333mhz DDR3 exactly like Apple sells. They sell 7200 RPM 2tb HDDs for $300! $300! You can buy the same high spec drives for $130 from most places. Their machine costs are insane. An ATi 5770 GPU costs $160 the apple equivalent costs $250. Which is about the only component with a reasonable price. Base dual CPU systems are starting at $4199. I can buy dual 6-core Xeons for $2200. I got my Mac Pro at a firesale deal. Apple do NOT release cpu firmware updates. A 2009 Mac Pro can be BIOS flashed into a 2010 Mac Pro and will take the ram/cpu upgrade, the motherboards are identical so for $4500 I can build a mac pro that would normally cost $8299 for any professional to buy. The professionals are getting ripped off blind. No dual CPU motherboard/1000 Watt power supply + case is worth $3800 to make up the difference in cost. Apple is screwing its professional user base. On the software side I am pretty content with how things are going, there is maya, photoshop etc. Final Cut Pro's rewrite was necessary and each new patch will add features to the cocoa rewrite. Apple has just released a new version of their tool without completing it, which is fine considering the massive price drop. Patching will solve Final Cut Pro X, and people are whining about a non-existent problem. FCPX is only bad for an entering professional who doesn't have the last Final Cut Pro copy before it came out.

    1. Re:Apple are screwing professionals. by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      But... the Xeon based systems are WAAAAY overpriced. Apple want $1050 for 24gb of ram. I bought the same RAM from a normal vender for $300.

      Uhhh....that's been the case for decades. Apple has always charged an arm, a leg, and a kidney for RAM and hard drive upgrades. If their upgrade pricing is "costing" them professionals, how did Apple get them in the first place?

  87. Final Cut Pro was never "dumbed down" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They already added back in XML exports and the other shit is getting added in upcoming free updates. It's was basically a total rewrite. I guess they weren't expecting these so-called professionals to upgrade to a x.0 version the day it's released. Get real. Final Cut Pro is fine, it's just going to take time to add in all the other shit. And just wait till Logic Pro X comes out and blows everyone's mind. The death of Apple pro gear is greatly exaggerated.

  88. Quick consumer trinkets by geekoid · · Score: 1

    make more money.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  89. Re:You still use Latex?? by mcover · · Score: 2

    LaTex == Typesetting system. If you want to use a "word processing" system, go ahead, but never compare it to typesetting! That goes hand in hand with LaTeX's philosophy of "what you write is what you mean". The one thing I hate most about writing a document (with WYSIWYG "word processors"), is making it look the way it needs to look (imagine trying to change the way headings, references, etc are displayed [all at once] in a "word processor" for a 200 page scientific document).

    Point is, word processing != typesetting.

  90. Piffle by onyxruby · · Score: 2

    Apple is absolutely clueless in all things enterprise. The fact that board members prefer and get mac's for personal desktops means nothing more than they have the power to get their personal preferences paid for by the company. The idea that Apple could easily get their offerings into the IT sector is laughable at best.

    From imaging new computers with a standard image (PXE, you know the standard everyone in the world except apple uses), to the lack of virtualization (what do you mean I can't load Lion onto a VM on the lab server?) to the dearth of packaging tools (platypus!!!) to a lack of more than bare minimal AD support (why am I paying tens of thousands of dollars for a third party product like Quest just to get basic policy support?) to just now getting full disk encyrption in 10.7 (what do you mean partial disk encryption isn't HIPAA approved?), a lack of supporting NTLMv2 by default (let's drop it in 10.7 and replace Samba!) and so on and on.

    It's not that tools are completely lacking, in some cases alternatives exist that require you to have an entirely separate infrastructure in place just to manage your macs (netboot instead of pxe etc). Apple makes absolutely no provisions for the enterprise environment. The entire enterprise mindset for managing apple computers doesn't even exist. Until I can manage an apple computer at a cost rate anywhere near what it costs me to manage a windows computer your suggestion that the enterprise is hungry for Apple is nothing more than fan boy level delusion.

    The cost of secondary infrastructure and the additional costs in cleaning up after clueless mac uses (I thought mac's couldn't get viruses!!) is something that keeps them out of the enterprise and will continue to do so until mac finally get's the enterprise culture and starts accepting industry standards widely embraced by Windows and Unix operating systems and hardware.

    I am responsible for managing an enterprise environment that's 40% mac. If you don't know what your talking about and start spewing nonsense someone who does know if going to pop in and call you in it. Consider yourself called.

    1. Re:Piffle by fostware · · Score: 1

      Netboot isn't that bad, and has improved incredibly since it's original incarnations, possibly because DeployStudio sh!ts over the Apple tools - even though it mainly uses Apple (and FOSS) tools in the background.
      Apple Certified Technical Co-Ordinator (Apple Server MCP*) training all ran DeployStudio, so they know their own offering sucks in the real world.

      We've got just shy of a half a gig worth of .plist files to emulate AD. There's a bunch of CLI tools required to implement them (eg support for a centralised netlogon script), but we're used to having to know the mechanics since we've also had to shoehorn Win7/Office2010 ADMX back into 2003-level forests. They're built up from supporting school labs, but to be fair I like the Quest tools so that I can apply the one setting to both Macs and PCs.

      And don't get me started on SAMBA's support of 2008-level forests before 4, since we've got sites stuck on NTLMv1l to suit the site admin's preference for a particular squid + dans + SAMBA NTLMv1 integrated auth setup.

      * Yes, MCP. All the OD and Deployment specialisations may get close to a MCSE...

      --
      "We know what happens to people who stay in the middle of the road. They get run over." - Aneurin Bevan
    2. Re:Piffle by theolein · · Score: 1

      I'm a sysadmin for a lare design agency that is about 70% Mac. I've grown to really hate Apple for dropping of the XServe and all the server related products, and that's not talking about the anger I feel for the increasingly erratic usability and interoperability issues that OSX is bringing lately. Apple's deliberate hostility towards anything legacy, such as its dropping of all PPC support in 10.7 (and all Mac OS 9 support back in 10.5) makes supporting Apple a much more expensive proposition than supporting windows, even though OSX needs much less in the way of support than windows does in my experience.

      In your post, you're only wrong about one point: Imaging a Mac from a standard image is a lot easier than it is in windows. You don't actually need pxe.

    3. Re:Piffle by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      a lack of supporting NTLMv2 by default (let's drop it in 10.7 and replace Samba!)

      Can your non-Mac OS X 10.7 SMB clients and servers not support NTLMSSP? That, at least, should work with 10.7's non-Samba-based server and 10.7's (never was Samba-based, all the way back to it introduction in 10.2 or so) client. If it doesn't work, file a bug.

    4. Re:Piffle by onyxruby · · Score: 1

      I had to go through and edit smb.conf to add the following line:

      'client ntlmv2 auto = Yes'

      Why oh why the clients default to NTLM v1 instead of v2 when even Microsoft made this the default server setting in 2003 I couldn't tell you. I should file a bug report because the mac client corrupts your cached password password for AD when you have a GPO that requires NTLMv2 unless you hard code your clients to use NTLMv2. The net effect is that your mac clients DOS your windows based server with a corrupted password even if your server is physically powered off.

      I don't know what will happen with 10.7 as they no longer have samba and I haven't yet had a chance to put it in the lab and find out.

  91. Missing Mac Pro by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Mac Pro hasn't been updated significantly in a VERY long while. Intel's slow roll-out of Sandy Bridge for the pro market doesn't help, but still...

  92. Conflicted by kittylu · · Score: 1

    As a 22-year pro/consumer user of Apple, I can't really complain... Infinitely more beautiful, useful, productive, and easier-to-use, more stable products than I've ever used. My MacBook Pro, iPhone, and iPad are amazing. OTH, my Quad Core tower at the office is a mess... And isolating the problems requires a close labor intensity of the plague-ridden Quadras and PowerPCs from the 90s. But this is primarily because, as the odd man out at the office, I literally have to "do it all." I put together psentations and proposals for an ad agency, which requires being fluent in multiple versions of both Adobe CS and Microsoft Office on both Apple and Windows. (And don't get me started about how equally sloppy and conflict-ridden both CS5 and Office 2011 are.) With that out of the way, I still find Apple to be more user friendly across the board. There was an interesting article in thiis week's WSJ about how more Fortune 500 companies are embracing the iPhone over other mobile devices, particularly Android, because it is so much easier to manage in terms of security... But low-end consumers opt for Android devices for the price point. My company already follows Apple strategy... While the IT department helped me set up my iPhone, I set up my laptop and new iPad all on my own. For better or worse, once I'm plugged in, I'm in.... So, while there is more from Hidden Valley than just ranch dressing, it all depends on the options the user has at the salad bar, in terms of toppings and dressings.

  93. Hacked off? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "People will get hacked off."

    That sounds very frightening.

    With machetes?

    Is this a real expression? If so, is it younger or older than ginormous?

    Answering my own question, oh, it's a British expression.

    What's wrong with "very angry" ?

  94. Re:BS by swalve · · Score: 1

    First laptop with ddr3? I find that hard to believe. Also, poor value is not equal to poor quality. Even if MacBooks are the best equipment on the market, their price makes it a bad value.

    Just as an example, the current MBP line doesn't even have 7400 rpm drives, a sub-par selection of processors, and doesn't even have a 1080p screen available. Spend the same money on a high-end Dell or HP, and you get a better computer.

  95. Final Cut Pro not a prfesional tool... never was by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No true professional is going to be using final cut pro. It is an armatures tool. Prosumer at best. This is the crowd they are abandoning. They are making angry the little guys and nothing more. I use video editing tools are other platforms and there isn't exactly a reason others can't too. There are good tools out there if you just open your eyes a little besides final cut pro.

  96. Reality distortion field by Exitar · · Score: 1

    It took only 10 days to start losing strength?

  97. contradictory article by jbolden · · Score: 1

    The article is essentially 2 contradictory points

    1) That Apple hardware is to expensive and pros are drawn towards PCs to keep costs down
    2) That Lion's move towards consumer (i.e. less expensive) devices is bad for pros.

    The reality is that 10.4-10.6 did a lot for pros. Core animation, core video, core audio, core image, Quartz Composer.... The pros have plenty of technology they need to take advantage of.

  98. Re:Penis vagina by mehemiah · · Score: 1
  99. Re:Xserve comeback or let sever run on any VM syst by King_TJ · · Score: 1

    I wouldn't really disagree with you, except for one item. I'm *really* starting to question how useful a dual redundant power supply is? In all the years I've worked with servers in corporate I.T. -- I have yet to run into a situation where a power supply failed in a server, but it kept running thanks to the secondary backup. Servers tend to have large wattage, well constructed power supplies in the first place, that outlast just about everything else on the system, especially when they spend their life in a clean, climate controlled computer room.

    If a P.S. does fail on you, in most cases, it's an item that's not too difficult to swap out and get the system back online. If it's really a mission critical server where ANY small outage can't be tolerated? You better be mirroring it in real time to a second complete system for hot failover, not worrying about it having redundant power supplies!

  100. Right-mouse menus? by msobkow · · Score: 1

    Personally I don't use the menu bars for most Windows or Linux applications, I use the right-mouse click to bring up context menus. I've been doing so for many years. It's not as obvious to the average user, but that's mainly a training issue.

    Surely the Mac has outgrown that single-button mouse nonsense by now?

    It's also one of my pet peeves with web apps -- the context menu has been stolen by the browser.

    Most of the time I've read about media editing on the Mac, it was using third-party products. Unless Apple bought out all those software companies and dumbed-down their products, it's not Apple that's to blame.

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
  101. Duh by humphrm · · Score: 1

    Apple has been a consumer electronics company for years. You're just figuring this out?

    --
    -- "In order to have power, I must be taken seriously." -Mojo Jojo
  102. Re:You still use Latex?? by jbolden · · Score: 3, Informative

    One reason is that WYSIWYG sucks up time and never quite works out while WYGIWYM is better. Plus Latex isn't that painful.

  103. MySQL on Lion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apple removed support for MySQL from Lion by deleting the mysql user that was found in previous versions. There are some workarounds that are fairly obvious to the /. crowd, however, you can't find an answer by Googling or calling Apple. (If you upgraded from an earlier version of OSX, you won't encounter issues.) You also can't use DBI in Perl because they mismatched 32-bit and 64-bit versions of Perl and MySQL libraries.

    When I called and asked for support, I was transferred twice, then when one of the "geniuses" couldn't answer my questions and I asked to speak to someone in Xserve support, they put me on hold for 45 minutes then hung up on me.

    Thanks Apple!

  104. So build a Hackintosh...duh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So stop whining and build the computer you want. Installing OS X on a home built is about the same difficulty as getting a Linux computer up and running these days. Easy and a lot cheaper. My i5 2500 with dedicated graphics, 3 hard drives and 8 GB RAM cost about $500 and is completely bulletproof.

    As for monitors....uh....so don't buy Apple. Buy a nice 1080p 32" TV for 1/3 the price. Jeez, how hard is that?

  105. Re:Xserve comeback or let sever run on any VM syst by fostware · · Score: 1

    HP ML350 G5's (and some G6's)

    Second power supply saved our bacon plenty of times, since there was faulty batches of PSUs. Rough guess of 20% of all ML350 G5 installs over two years.
    Having spares for a *known* issue with power supplies is a cost I'd rather do without - unless I can pass that to the customer.

    I do miss the ILO support of the xserves, since Mac Mini and MacPro don't.

    --
    "We know what happens to people who stay in the middle of the road. They get run over." - Aneurin Bevan
  106. I use a generic PC running virtualization software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and have several Mac VM's. as well as various Windoze, and Linux OS's which I boot up as needed. That way I didn't have to pay through the nose for a Mac, and I have all of the advantages of running what I need when I need it on a laptop I have upgraded to 256Gb SSD and 1Tb HDD as well as 16Gb of RAM for less than what a Mac Pro would have run me and it will blow all of their hardware away. Gotta love technology - the Mac is redundant and a waste, go with your own system and run a virtualized image of what you want to run on your terms and stop paying inflated prices for old technology that is in all of the Apple products.

    Steve Jobs is dead, and so is Apple - get with the times...

  107. Re:You still use Latex?? by dbIII · · Score: 1

    It's not as much pain as it looks like from the outside when you are looking at something put together by a person that knows latex backwards and has reused a lot from previous documents. It doesn't have much of a learning curve at all if you don't need to know everything about it. I know that because I had to relearn how to use it from scratch after a gap of more than ten years.
    The idea is to get plain text and just put a few lines at the top and bottom to tell tex what to do with it - just like a very simple web page. Beyond a certain point it is a lot less stuffing about than in a word processor or graphical DTP program. Formula entry still sucks just about everywhere else.

  108. Recording studios are full of Apple by ContactClean · · Score: 1

    Just about every recording studio runs some type of Digital Audio Workstation, and a lot of those are OS X machines running Avid's ProTools software.
    While ProTools is available for Windows, I don't see many Windows boxes in recording studios.
    In music production Apple products continue to dominate.

  109. Professional applications need sharing ability by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apple has never been on the forefront of shared applications. For instance, if I try to run iPhoto using the iPhoto library on my wife's computer, I don't see her photos - we don't share the library.

    That may be OK for home use, but not for professional use.

  110. Re:I use a generic PC running virtualization softw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh stop lying. Your post just screams gamer dweeb.

  111. Why is slashdot pushing anti Apple FUD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    An anti Apple story in a PC mag, whoever would have guessed. Just who is pushing this anti Apple FUD and do any of these companies have a special relationship with Microsoft or any affiliated companies?

    Addictive Media: Simon Marcus
    Agent8: Nick Pye
    Blueprint Digital: Richard Bron
    Finger Industries: Marcus Kenyon
    Independent video producer: Keith Woolford
    Kevin Cook: Institute of Videography
    Matt Wyre: Haughton Design
    Photographer: Bill Wisser
    Podcast editor: Ewen Rankin

  112. hmm by smash · · Score: 1
    • anti-glare is availble on "pro" level machines - check
    • apple has highest customer satisfaction and reliability ratings - check
    • other OEMs struggling to match pricing on ipad, macbook air... check

    Sure, final cut pro sucked, but the rest of the argument.... sorry don't see it.

    Yes, the mac pros are a very expensive machine if you load them up with RAM from apple. Don't do that. Problem solved? They aren't very much more expensive than other similarly specced PRO level machines (i.e., with workstation class boards containing xeons) from other OEMS.

    --
    I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
  113. Please! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're looking for a motive? Profit. Professionals are a small market. Deal with it.

  114. And Google's stellar Nexus One support by AdamJS · · Score: 1

    Has made me very often consider jumping ship to iOS.

    1. Re:And Google's stellar Nexus One support by Richard_J_N · · Score: 1

      Try CyanogenMod first :-)

      It's true that Android has bugs, perhaps more than iOS does. But Android doesn't have mis-features like iOS. You can fix bugs yourself (or submit an issue to the tracker), but it's nearly impossible to remove the mis-features, which were put there deliberately to make your experience of the device more restrictive.

    2. Re:And Google's stellar Nexus One support by AdamJS · · Score: 1

      Custom roms are nice but sometimes it's not just the software, it's the hardware. Google (as is logical) redirects everything to HTC, and then HTC does the same thing in the other direction. Both parties claim no responsibility and essentially stonewall any discussion of crucial design flaws or hardware problems. Google is justified in not caring at all but it really makes the company look like a corporate prick.