Slashdot Mirror
EU Debates Installing a Black Box On Your Computer
bs0d3 writes "EU MEP Tiziano Motti (Italy), wants everything you do online to be logged and saved, for the sake of the children. Like a black box installed on every computer. He proposes an early warning system of criminal activity, specifically whenever an image of sexually abused children is detected, an alarm, goes to the authorities to be able to see who uploaded it. Tiziano Motti was a politician who just over a year ago managed to get a majority of European Members of Parliament to support the proposal to expand the data storage directive to Google searches. The purpose was to protect children from pedophiles — the same excuse he is using now. His proposal involves a technology called Logbox. And just as with an aircraft's black box, Logbox is installed on computers, laptops, smartphones, and e-readers because yes, all that can be connected to the internet."
Me? Ha-ha-ha!
Fuck. That. Shit.
Fuck you!
Would someone from Italy like to explain why you voted this authoritarian cunt into the EU. Go on! I'd love to hear it!
"Welcome to our world. We are the wasted youth. And we are the future too." Yes, I know these are stupid lyrics.
It has a bunga bunda override switch.
then Motti and the rest of the politicos
Studies have shown a negative correlation between the availability of porn and rape cases. IIRC this is also the case specifically with CP and child rape. If anything, this will make it worse for the children.
Not to mention the problems with a software based solution. The software will, of course, only run on certain operating systems, who is the government to mandate I purchase a particular operating system/or agree to a contract (e.g. the GPL)? Anyone who knows what they are doing can get around this anyway. Even if it calls home, it could be faked by using a VM.
I dream of a nation where a man is not judged by his skin color but by an number assigned by a credit rating agency.
They'll try to get it in "for the children", but would rather use it to preempt people that want to release unsavory information about a politician.
It'd be a black box that precedes a black-out or disappearance.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
LOLWTFBBQ ???
As if there weren't more pressing issues at the moment for Italy and all of Europe.
Vaffanculo, Signore Motti.
FTFA:
If it were China, North Korea or Saudi Arabia who had proposed this, what would we say then? It's scary in a democratic Europe to even hear a politician suggest such a thing. It is so absurd that I really hope we never have to discuss it seriously in Parliament.
-MEP Lars Christian Engstrom (Sweden)
The proposal claims to be based on users' rights and claims they are protected, that they should feel safe. He writes at the beginning that he did not want to create a new Big Brother Society. But then the whole document is about just that.
-Former Piratbyran founder and current telecomix hactivist Marcin de Kaminski
Like Members of Congress in the USA, EU MEPs come in all shapes, sizes, and states of sanity. This guy's just flying a kite, but any such law would apply the the MEPs too, and you can assume some of them have skeletons in their hard drives. Fuhgeddabouttit.
(this is not a
... EU MEP Tiziano Motti (Italy) can't tell the difference between desktop PCs, laptops, smartphones and e-readers. Like most of the politicians anyway. Six or seven years ago in Greece some morons (a.k.a. the parliament majority) voted for a law to prohibit electronic gambling - On their way, they made Internet Cafés illegal as well as coin-up arcade games. It was fun to watch the police bust into Internet Cafés and arrest their owners just because they had 5-6 desktops PCs connected to the Internet.
Someone really has to tell these guys about live CDs and Tor. It's impossible to monitor absolutely everything on the internet.
Society needs witches to hunt. First case I can think of was the Christians, then the pagans, then Jews, then Muslims, then "witches", then anarchists, then gays, then communists, then terrorists, now pedophiles. Sadly, it probably won't ever end. Humans have a tendency to want to kill the one who is "different" which often leads them to counter-productive activities, which quite often do nothing to harm the group they intend to. And it seems we can always find someone irreconcilably different, no matter how many greater differences have in the past been overcome, when we are at a loss for one.
Great Intellect...
Even if this were not grossly misused(which would surely happen), with this in place the child molesters will figure out that actually molesting children is less likely to get them caught than child porn. Making an incentive to do it for real instead of looking at it...
OK, this is Slashdot but 1 MEP suggests something, and it becomes "EU Debates Installing a Black Box On Your Computer". No one is debating anything !! (Unless TFA says more: it is currently Slashdotted.)
What do you think the chances are that EU MEP Tiziano Motti has some sort of a connection to a company or person which hopes to make money from Logbox?
Weirdly the Logbox technology seems to be a ColdFusion logging libary... good luck with that on a kindle
"specifically whenever an image of sexually abused children is detected"
First, I'm pretty sure we haven't got software that can do that reliably.
Second, if we do, I certainly hope it's not sick enough to accept the job of scouring everyone's screen for kiddy porn. And if it is sick enough, somebody call John Connor quick.
Along with installing cameras in every home and spying on phone calls, we need to let the government log everyone's online activity, too. That'll stop those factually evil terrorists!
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
60 some odd years later, what Hitler wanted comes back to life -- a chance to spy on the people for the sake of "saving Christianity", "saving Germany", "saving Europe", "saving children", and soon, themselves.
No, thank you. This world doesn't need this kind of technology to help the modern equivalent of the KGB or the Stassi.
1984 is not a manual for politicians.
Hitler is back, in Brussels,. But don't worry. What could possibly go wrong ?
aaaaaaa
then Motti and the rest of the scumbags
So if someone wants to research on the subject of child porn (not search for it, but search for information about it), and therefore enters that term into Google, he will cause an alarm at the police. Yeah, that makes perfectly sense. And of course they have the perfect algorithm to detect whether a photo shows an abused child. So it will never trigger if you e.g. send a holiday photo of your child at the beach to a friend.
And of course, that box will never be used for any other purpose. Well, OK, they'll probably will soon add terrorist triggers, because terrorists are very bad, too. Don't complain about the police knocking on your door, you just shouldn't have used the word "terror" when you referred to the experience with your ex. Oh, and copyright violations for sure are also a target to be added soon. Oh, and since it is installed everywhere anyway, why not use it also for criminal investigations? And of course the secret service should have access to it. And it would surely come in handy for finding whistleblowers ...
Ah, and if it's already there, why not add more functionality? Maybe not just report, but also block unwanted content? After all, it's bad stuff you want to be blocked. And of course it will never block legitimate but unwanted stuff ...
And of course pedophiles, terrorists, copyright violators etc. won't ever find a way around it. Sure.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
Italy will solve it's unemployment problem. The governmnent decided to pay half the population to spy on the other half.
"It's totaly not like the Stasi, we value freedom and privacy." commented one Italian MEP.
He surely must be taking back-handers from Murdoch. The only half-sane reason to suggest these "black boxes" would be so The Sun can run the headline "Barmy Brussels Big Brother Bill".
-- Using the preview button since 2005
The LogBox link leads to a logging subsystem for a web framework. How is that connected to something running on one's computer?
isn't this a feature of Metro already? I'm sure Apple is up for it.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
...but clearly this isn't possible. Assuming this is software based, they'd have to prevent anyone installing 'unapproved' O/Ss, Also, live boots would be out. Also, all devices without said software would have to be 'dealt with'.
Also - the LogBox linked to in the article appears to be for a ColdFusion logging library - I suspect this is either lazy journalism or politician luditism.
Windows in 6 Bytes (IA-32) : 90 90 90 90 CD 19
Is that the sound of big brother I hear approaching?
Chris Sheppard
Children are sure going to hate life when they become adults and these black boxes were installed "for their protection" during a brief phase of their lives.
that Berlusconi's men are worrying about pedophiles.
Both this Slashdot story and TFA have a very misleading title. ONE MEP is thinking about this insane idea. It is not even in Parliament for discussion. Another MEP already vehemently spoke against it.
Come on, ideas like these pop up and fizz out all the time. I bet there are other MEPs thinking about imprisoning gay people, reinstating a theocracy, establishing re-education centers, idolizing Hitler and Stalin, and so on and so forth. That doesn't mean any of these wacky ideas come through. There are no indications that this one will.
Plus, it is not technically feasible, even with deep packet inspection. To connect the dots, to know who uploaded what where, is far from trivial, especially if the bad scary pedophile uses non-standard ways of transmitting this data. For example, what if he uses zip files? Also, there is encryption, which totally defeats this "logbox".
This sig does not contain any SCO code.
TFA links to "a technology called LogBox", a logging library for ColdFusion. That doesn't make sense. IMHO log4j would be much better.
Say out loud: I'm an Aspie and I'm somewhat proud, I guess. Uh. Can I write an email in all caps instead? Hm...
One MP having a crazy idea does not mean the law will get changed over the whole of the EU. There are many examples of MPs who have changed one law but failed to change other laws. Every country has their radical MPs who make grand statements to capture media attention, it doesn't mean that their ideas will become law (we have to be thankful that the craziest ideas of the craziest US representatives haven't become law in the USA over the last 50 years).
in german it's called "totschlagargument" ;)
I'm more than happy to let them have this, just as long as we also have a black box on our politicians. All addresses, telephone numbers, email addresses, financial information and physical location for all the politicians, publically available, all the time.
If they've nothing to hide, they've nothing to worry about.
The people who actually molest kids are those with easy access to them. most cases of abuse are from moms, dads, stepmoms, aunts and uncles, sometimes even a teacher. They don't care if you monitor their computer because they don't need one to get what they're after. No amount of computer monitoring or demonizing things that are even tangentially related to kiddie porn will prevent or even slow down actual cases of actual abuse.
These laws are about removing people from society who don't have a "healthy" sexual attitude. That's why drawings are illegal in many places. Because it's not about reducing abuse, it's about people making themselves feel less uncomfortable about their own sexuality. In my own country, the people here are absolutely bat shit crazy when it comes to sexuality. They fear it, and they hate people who have a different attitude about it than they do. My generation is the first where simply being gay is not a crime. Hell at this point I can see things at the beach that would be illegal on my computer. There have even been people investigated for looking at porn of adults who are young looking. And if you let yourself get wrapped up in this paranoia you are helping no one and hurting everyone, including yourself.
And this needs to be said:
I would rather live in a world where occasional child abuse happens, than one where it never happens because we're all under constant surveillance.
> They'll try to get it in "for the children"
You have no idea how literally that is being (ab)used by those people.
TFS mentions a "proposal to expand the data storage directive to Google searches", i.e.
"written declaration 29".
Take a look at the "Sign the written declaration No. 29 today!" site:
http://smile29.eu/
The Onion could not have done it better.
or is the DC of Italy not trustworthy for Wintel?NSA to tell them that this comes already with every computer running a majority Operating System 7?
Mr Motti, if you manage to have such logging capabilities installed on all European systems by default, I promise I will hack it. I will hack it and use the one on your computer to find all your dirty laundry related to political and financial affairs, and I will make all of them public. It will stink so fucking much you'll praise the Lord such a logging system would never have existed. Beware...
Video of some good progressive thrash music
Where is mafia when one needs it? Wait, this guy must be one of them.
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
That Tiziano Motti is an idiot and his suggestion will be laughed out of parliament.
Mr. Motti official email address at the European Parliament: tiziano.motti@europarl.europa.eu
Mr. Motti homepage: www.motti.eu
The last 3 accepted stories have had clearly misleading titles or summaries. I don't normally complain about editing on /. but christ guys, get it together.
Murphey's fighting Occam, and we're in the stands.
Forgive me for being a bit rude, but I woke up to this article. Mr. Motti, considering the reputation your PM has been gathering I must say screw you.
I am at the point I am no longer phased by the phrase "think of the children". All of this to protect kids? Dear god, at this point you might as well just take all the kids away from their parents in the hospital and raise them completely isolated from adults. Maybe even other kids so they don't even know what kids look like to be turned on by them.
An image of a child being abused? I mean, obviously this guy has no clue about technology. Still, he did not research prior censorship attempts first? The whole Green Dam (or was it River) of China's blocking a website for showing too much skin was horribly broken. Should Europeans expect their equivalent of SWAT Teams to start charging in if they look up pig farming?
And... and... *double face palms and sighs* Why the hell are politicians so apt to look at 1984 and like books as guides rather than warnings?
by Anonymous Coward: I, for one, welcome the shift from car analogies to pizza analogies. um.. overlords?
Unfortunately clueless politicians proposing illegal and amoral things are just as present in the EU everywhere else.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
I don't think any of these politicians or lobbyists have ever read Orwell's masterpiece...
Before you begin asking "why we voted for Motti" you must dig a bit deeper.
Motti is talking specifically about a proprietary solution by an Italian enterpreneur, so they can sell it: by taking this proposal to the European Parliament they will be laughed by everyone, but still this is an excuse to have enough media coverage to sell the products to companies, hey, if the gubmint can log the kittydiddlers you can also log your disgruntles employees at your call center.
You might want to pass these links to your google translate:
http://www.fabioghioni.net/blog/2011/10/20/internet-e-l%E2%80%99arbitrio-assoluto-sui-dati-dei-service-provider-presentata-al-parlamento-l%E2%80%99iniziativa-per-un-sistema-di-controllo-sotto-garante/
http://www.famigliacristiana.it/costume-e-societa/scienza-e-Tech/tech-news/dossier/inter_191011150826.aspx
As long as they keep Berlusconi as PM, they are not credible at all.
Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.
I just mailed this to tiziano.motti@europarl.europa.eu:
And I mean it!
How about you?
http://ismaeleblog.blogspot.com/2009/04/il-curioso-caso-di-tiziano-motti.html use Google to translate it
Shove it up their ass.
Suddenly old computers will become valuable, and if that is illegal, I'll gladly be a part of the criminal world.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Great idea. Let's kick off this great scheme with Berlusconi's computer.
I agree that childpr0n is horrible but this is worse.
Not only are those children raped and have video's and pictures taken and posted on the internet now they are being screwed by their politicians as well?
Childpr0n is bad but Nation / European / Worldwide censorship is 100x worse. They should invest their money in actually finding and hanging the makers of this crap instead of turning everyone into an criminal.
But I highly doubt the idea will stand for long probably will get shot down the next meeting... They should jail the person/people who came up with this idea.. have they done something against the law? I don't think so but better safe then sorry, right? They might commit a crime at some point. Better jail them for the rest of their lives and make sure that doesn't happen. Lets call it precrime prevention!
Minority Report, anyone?
just sayin'
Is "the EU debating it", or is it just this one loon who has suggested it to the media? Has this suggestion made it to any committee, showed up in any directive proposal from the commission, been discussed in any meeting of the council of ministers?
If one single parliamentarian doing a mouth-fart is the same as the entire institution he's in "debating it" then the EU is also debating reinstating the death penalty, banning the building of mosques, abandoning the inner market, patenting business methods, etc etc etc.
Yeah ive seen the B/W videos of life in the 40s, with some 35yo geezer married to some 14yo with the blessing of her parents.
Does this make every single old fart over 80 a pedo because that was the norm before?
Dont invent new morals, unless you want to retro actively charge 100s of millions of people as pedos in their graves.
Bottom line, govts and leos should all stop destroying lives.
Be fair, and DONT follow the book.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
There seem always to be some brute force policy which affects the privacy of all citizens, because a few criminals. Let them first solve their problems with their president who is a pedophile. I suggest that they put a logbox in his computer and publish all logs for everyone to see!
I also suggest governments should first solve their own ICT problems before exporting those to their citizens by shoving a hardware version of a bundestrojan in everyones throat.
This would have a lot more weight if you cited exactly which laws you think he has broken...
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
EU sounds like they are taking a cue from the republicans here in the states. They want similar things for those that do not belong to the republican party.
Yep, and stuff like "BACK DOWN NOW OR WE WILL BRING YOU DOWN" and making treats doesn't help at all. If anything, inane emails like that just hurt the cause.
What a noble goal to save our children. But it doesn't go far enough! Our children are most often victims of abuse by members of their own family. We MUST put a stop to that! Lets give all of our children immediately from birth to catholic monasteries.
Oh, yeah, right: </sarcasm>
Email Motti with your polite suggestions: tiziano.motti@europarl.europa.eu :)
How convenient that this latest expansion of government power and revenue can be applied to an entire continent, rather than isolated to a single country. Am I implying that power and revenue grabs like this were the entire goal behind the EU? You're damn right I am.
And this won't be the last power grab, not by any stretch of the imagination. Breadth and depth of power grabs were carefully built into the design.
It might also be related to the word frank/franc that means something like free or sincere.
"Excuse my French" could be translated to "Excuse my free speech" or "Excuse me for being sincere"
What do you wanna bet he's doing half the campaign staff
http://www.ciroandreapiccinini.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/tiziano-motti.jpg
M$: vaffanculo
I'm interested in their thoughts for implementing this.. It's easiest to implement in software, but they can't force everyone to use a specific version of Windows or Linux or OS X (I sure hope!!). I doubt they would develop proxy software for FreeBSD, for example. If it's in hardware, then I'm afraid you will get a big slow-down: most computers are connected to the LAN with the same interface as the WAN, so does it have to check and log all the files you transfer to your NAS? If they do destination-based filtering, then people with multiple public IPs are SOL, and anyone can use a local proxy anyway.. Well, unless that also has this tracking HW of course. This just isn't going to happen, because it screws up too much of IT.
We need this so we can monitor all of our politicians' online activity.
You didn't send him a link to click on? Shame.
Governments want one thing, and that is full control over the people. Here in the Netherlands, some minister suggested placing cameras in all daycare institutions. Apart from the fact that this is absolutely infeasible (costs, who has to watch all the camera's so that nothing goes unnoticed?) is this a severe violation of privacy. Furthermore, the people working at daycare institutions won't behave normally when they are under surveillance, which won't benefit the normal development of the children.
The minister could have thought of this. He is either stupid or has to hide something.
They also want to prohibit the use of face covering clothing, of course, this is in order to find anyone and identify anyone. It won't help preventing terrorism, because you still don't know who the terrorists are, whether you can see their faces or not!
They wanted to introduce "kilometer tax" (roughly translated) to make you pay per kilometer. A system should be installed in your car which keeps track of the places you can visit. For obvious reasons, this violates privacy and civil rights.
Concluding, we can say that governments are by nature totalitarian and HAVE TO BE CONTROLLED. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Many people think the above mentioned proposals are normal and accept them. Slowly, we can see our rights and privacy vanish and Orwell's predictions come true.
muckracer wrote:
>You could say, he (God/Jesus) were elected to their currently held positions in A.D. 325
>at the First Council of Nicaea, where Jesus got promoted from just being a human to
>exclusive God privileges by a, albeit tight, vote by those present at the council.
>y extension, his now official Father (sorry, Joseph!) got simultaneously a vote of confidence
>(of existence and supreme rule).
You do realize that Dan Brown's a _fiction_ author? And that he created an alternate history to make his story work?
``The council decided against the Arians overwhelmingly (of the estimated 250–318 attendees, all but two voted against Arius''
--- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea
William
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
As a father I am all about saving the children. The cure here would open up pandora's box and would put a lot of people's privacy at risk with some real life implications. If your laptop is stolen the thiefs would have a complete record of everything you have ever done on it. Including passwords to your emails, bank accounts, etc. Not every good intention leads to a good solution.
I understand why they constantly use the issue about pedophiles when making these kinds of proposals; no one would argue against a measure to protect children from monsters. However, I think that is all an attempt to divert the attention from what really is going on. That they want to have access to what people are doing on the internet. With every similar proposal I feel Big Brother getting bigger.
Yeah, except that the story I read right after this one is one about how they're forcing ISPs to censor peoplewebsites posting recordings of alleged police misconduct. YOU need to be watched at home. THEY cannot be recorded in the performance of their paid duties.
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/10/20/0311234/eu-debates-installing-a-black-box-on-your-computer
This is complete bullshit; there are entire child prostitution rings in operation. Over 1,000 young girls are involved in the UK alone. Maybe it helps you sleep at night to think this doesn't happen, but I'm afraid it does.
I actually find it quite offensive that you can blame parents for the problem of child abuse - even amongst the cases that do occur within close family or at school or church (you missed church) it is almost never the natural parents doing the abuse. Usually it's a step-parent or uncle.
And this needs to be said:
Surveillance alone isn't harmful. There may be potentially harmful consequences, but the act of surveilling is completely neutral. Child abuse is actually harmful. I would rather live in a world where paranoid people whine about being watched than one in which increased levels of child abuse is an accepted collateral damage from our supposed right to do things on a worldwide network in absolute secrecy. And look, I smoke illegal drugs, I have a vested interest in keeping some privacy, because I have something to hide. It's just that the privacy we require in our lives has nothing to do with the internet.
(All this doesn't change the fact that the MEP proposing this is a fucking idiot, by the way.)
Among European conservatives, a virus was spread. They want to control the Internet, because it has to be controlled. Uncontrolled things are bad. And they all try to argument that with child pornography. They did that with web blockades. We have/had a law to enforce such blockades. However, they do not execute the law and want to abolish it. They had also a law so they can log all your traffic. However, the law was abolished by the Bundesverfassungsgericht (BVerfG = Supreme Court). And they had this state Trojan horse. However, that is illegal. As they all want it so desperate even when it is illegal and stupid and unethical, it must be a virus or it is a new drug which converts normal humans in control freaks.
What do they all want on my computer? There is nothing on it beside recorded TV series, music, and all my scientific and not so scientific publications. Oh I forgot the collection of recipes. I guess they are after the very old dope-brownie recipe.
Ah yes and Mr. Motti can be found here [http://www.europarl.europa.eu/members/expert/committees/view.do?language=EN&id=96760]
It's just some company donating to his campaign trying to get a win on the Government slot machine for spending by using a politically corrupt politician to push their snake oil as a miracle cure for something. People aren't thinking of the children by any stretch of the imagination. They are either only thinking of their campaign donations or investors depending on what part of this you look at. The general public be damned since they'll be footing the bill for this if it were to go through.
~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
After the beta test period, where Motti has a camera in his home to prevent the much more serious crimes that officials have the power to perpetrate, we will see how much of the kiddie porn problem can be solved by jailing Motti.
--
make install -not war
When every EU child has a recording box on their computer, all the pictures of them will be easily uploaded, and indeed probably "preventively" already uploaded to some EU surveillance database. Including their home webcams and personal phones. Which can be remotely activated.
I can't think of a better way to turn every EU child (and adult) into an unwilling porno star, when someone (on the inside, probably) publishes pictures take of those people without their even knowing it was their own equipment.
--
make install -not war
Somehow I am not bothered by this, I mean other than the fact it will be prohibitively expensive and for that reason wont happen, it will also be trivial to circumvent for those who really want to.
I mean The Great Firewall of China isn't keeping anyone who really wants to see the real web from seeing it.
Admit nothing. Deny Everything. Make Counter-accusations.
Why stop here?
We could start collecting online database from every time you drink alcohol in sake of stopping you before you go driving as drunken.
There are also other steps to go, how about video cam to every home so polices can caught you if you do nasty things...
Both of those of cource to protect our children from drunken (or) pedofiles.
Where's a good Mafia hit man when we need him?
Perhaps, if he feels he can't avoid looking at CP without Big Brother over his shoulder, Mr. Motti should just cut his own dick off to solve his "urges". With any luck, he'll manage to bleed to death...
I think such law will be telling by who will be listed as exempt from monitoring.
I have to wonder which common citizens will think this is a good idea?
Thousands die each year (including many children) from drunk driving but the government doesn't force mandatory breathalyzers in cars, so why would they force black boxes for kiddie porn detection. Come on, it's just some MP making noise to get votes come next election. Move along.
~Syberz
I propose a different solution to the problem.
If everyone stops having children, there will be 100% less child abuse.
By having more than 0 children you are contributing the problem.
I'm also still hopeful that Italy will be kicked out of the EU for being poor.
And how exactly does he envision this box to work?
Will I have to bring my PC somewhere every time it fills up, so they can empty it out?
Or does it just overwrite the old data?
If that’s the case everyone should just make sure they fill up the device several times over after going online.
http://www.infowars.com/state-department-agitator-advising-occupy-movement/
Ludicrous measure that will fail epically, but will cause a stink among voters.
It's like politicians are conspiring to get online rights into the political mainstream. What's the recent membership trend for the Italian Pirate Party?
I read something like this and I think, who is funding this guy ? He is an Italian politician, and I have followed enough Italian politics to see no reason to assume he is on the level. That means that child porno is presumably just a cover, but what is it a cover for ? Is some intelligence agency bankrolling this tomfoolery ? Organized crime ?
âoe ... â
If I were him, I certainly wouldn't feel threatened by an email from someone who can't even keep their character sets straight.
I suggest Mr. Motti set an example for us all. Have him install one of these boxes on all computers he personally uses to access the Internet. Better yet, any MEP who agrees with this proposal shall voluntary install these protective devices on their systems. Obviously, the people of Europe have a right to monitor the results of a test like this, so full disclosure online of all logs would be appropriate.
Let's see how well this works for them..
To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB
Is he a pedophile? Usually the ones fighting against something are the once that have a skeleton in the closet. Is he collecting more data for his own use?
Adolf Hitler, Mien Kampf:
"The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people.
As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children,
the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation."
I've said it before (and been modded "troll") and I'll say it again.
Stuff like this is why Italy is still a third-world country.
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
Again, the ranting and ravings of someone clueless to the internet, yet in power deciding what we should and should not do with the internet.
Any pedophile in today's age knows how to encrypt data...and these are the real culprits,
the ones that upload mega jumbo collection of files to be distributed on the net.....
the ones that will never be decrypted because they know what they are doing....
this will only catch the stupid low end ones which do not care or know about encryption,
and mostly small time compared to what this bill is proposing the needs are for.
If the problem is with perverts looking at child porn then solve it by stopping the small number of perverts from being able to look at it rather than installing software or hardware in every internet capable device with a graphical display (which will then lead to homebrew devices being illegal etc). A fairly simple lo-tech way would be to stop perverts looking at porn by removing the sight of convicted paedophiles. This prevents the convicted ones reoffending and provides a significant dis-incentive for the others. You could either do this permanently ala the middle ages (with a hot poker in the eye), or with some high tech medical procedure (detach the optical nerve under general anaesthetic, possibly reversable after a sentance has been served), or ironically, by strapping black boxes over their heads.
and just what stops a real criminal from removing it
1) Failure to capitalise first word in the missive.
2) Misuse of comma in first sentence.
3) Mis-statement of purpose; Mr Motti wishes to protect children from sexual abuse. The result of this is "Big Brother"-esque monitoring reminiscent of a totalitarian reigime.
4) You state that "... this will not only not help children, but in fact harm everyone, including children." This system would, in fact, potentially protect some children. If you are going to refute this point, you need to provide evidence. Pointing out that black-box recording of all actions on a computer is only useful as a reactive measure, not proactive (nobody's life was saved in an air crash by the black box recorder. It is for ascribing blame after the fact).
5) What is a criminal offence in the EU, and which law is he breaking? You need to be specific, so he can check the legality himself. More importantly, you are not a lawyer, so do not tell a politician what is legal or illegal. He has access to entire departments of lawyers, and will be damn sure that, should it get to that stage, he will shoehorn this scheme through a loophole so small you'd think it was made with an electron gun.
6) Empty threats. Nice.
In short, I think you mean well, but your execution is dire. Find more who think like you, nominate an articulate spokesperson, and have them do the talking.
Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
And I consider buying a soldering gun.
I'll also do hard time for tampering with it. I will protest the living fuck out of this.
Exceptionally disturbing. A government monitoring all network traffic to/from devices? I haven't looked at the specifications for such a device, but I imagine it would still function in a business environment as well, thus exposing proprietary company secrets in addition to other personal information. Not to mention, I'm sure such devices would easily be capable of feeding data back into computers, providing hackers with a common interface and easy monitoring system in every internet enabled device. No need to go to a coffee shop or hop on somebody's wireless to setup a MitM capture, it's already in place everywhere and you just need to figure out a way to take control of 1 to have access to millions of peoples personal information.
Congratulations you have just been registered as a Terrorist.
I say, you EU-pussies should go get the bastard and beat him to a bloody fookin' pulp just for the mere suggestion of this abomination.
Now that.... would be a treat indeed.
I'm Canadian, and I think we've already apologised enough for Celine Dion.
But certainly not enough for William Shatner.
I'm flattered. Would have thought they'd have more worthwhile things to debate, or at least limit debate to computers of EU citizens.
Posting AC for reasons that will become obvious.
I work for a company that provides storage solutions for telcos, one of the things we do with this is called LEA, Law Enforcement Auditing. It's a specific database that tracks what people upload to our storage including file, timestamp, IP, times accessed and IPs of those accessing it. This is deployed or planned to be deployed to all of our customers in the EU, US, South America and Asia, but the only ones pushing for improvements and additions are the Italians.
tl;dr everything you upload to an ISP storage solution is logged already.
The internet has been the biggest threat to the ruling class since the printing press.
Now they are trying to put the geni back in the bottle as it were.
A good video about all this can be found here....
http://www.archive.org/details/WorldSuppressionAndTheTrueFreedomMovement
The first paragraph looked good, but the rest almost start sounding like a threat.
Moral indignation - jealousy with a halo. ~ H. G. Wells.
I love how just because a company comes up with some convoluted piece of software, which likely doesn't even work as advertised due to its nature, that every technology-illiterate politician thinks this is naturally perfect to force onto everyone. For the children, you know. Let's just ignore the fact that even the most basic internet filters don't work properly and install a system onto everyone's machines which can automatically flag them for felonies. That can't possibly lead to false arrest lawsuits, or waste millions of taxpayer dollars implementing and "enforcing."
Actually, I just now looked up what LogBox is, and now I'm facepalming even more. It's just a corporate logging system, to make a developer or sysadmin's job easier. So what other part of his proposed system lets them detect child pornography or illegal acts? Where does this get reported to? How much storage do you honestly think you could get away with putting in such a device to contain all of the information? Who all has access to that information? Who's paying for it? What happens if I disable it, or simply buy a computer outside of the country which doesn't contain one? What if I tampered with somebody else's device or used their machine to browse child porn sites to intentionally get them in trouble?
I also guess nobody ever told him that it's impossible to detect if an image is actually child porn if it's an image that the pedo took themselves, so it's not exactly an early warning system of any child being abused. At best, it would let them detect known child porn images already in distribution, but how long did that child have to be abused, photographed, and transmitted around to other pedos before it was entered into a database for matching against?
Oh well. It's hard for me to imagine what it must be like for people with such a blissful ignorance of technology.
Guess where it came from? And how long a history it has...
I propose we logbox all politicians, including their Blackberrys, so we can see who they're doing favors for, and who's paying them for what they do.
mark
I thought nazism was defeated?
Why not put the black box directly on the cameras? Putting it in the computer would just prevent distribution (which would almost immediately be disabled by anyone that is actually committing a crime). We should be more proactive, we need to be more proactive. Every camera should be GPS and internet enabled and notify the authorities immediately of any questionable photographs. Also, put a camera on the back of the camera, and embed a photograph of the photographer in every photo taken. From there, we should take it a step further and insert a black box into the brain of everyone born. Please, someone think of the children.
What if the "black box", was in the cloud? One for each person on earth, eligible as having a computer or not.
I, for one, am looking forward to Blackbox on every computer - or even Fluxbox...
*badam tsh*
Andrew Jackson for atrocities committed against the natives.
Franklin Roosevelt for most damage to the future of the country by making the people dependent on government, and don't forget the Japanese internment.
Out of politics we did have Jim Jones, a communist behind a facade of religion, responsible for the Guyana deaths.
Any other ideas? I'm sure I've missed some.
Selective enforcement
... being a successful politician and a successful manipulator share many of the same traits.
No, really, I thought successful politician was a subset of successful manipulator. Really. I can't come up with any examples of successful politicians who aren't successful manipulators.
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
I thought "1984" was translated into many languages, but they must have never got around to Italian.
Really? A criminal offense to propose legislation? Are you really that stupid or just trolling?
The computers, cameras, network-switches, wires, cables. These are not the problem. Its the brains. We need to Lo-jack everyone's brain so that it explodes when it sees an illegal image. That way there are no design flaws.
Here is an even better idea.
1. cat /dev/random > DCIM0079.jpg
2. Anonymously email that file with the following message to tiziano.motti@europarl.europa.eu:
"Here is that hot 6 year old I told you about. Decrypt with the usual password."
3. Anonymously tip off the Italian police.
Obviously you shouldn't do that. But someone could.
While I concur that this is a truly atrocious, idiotic proposal for all sorts of reasons, don't make the mistake of thinking that child porn is somehow separate from child molestation. By definition children get molested in the production of child porn.
A better law would be for irreversible castration and branding of child abusers / pornographers for a first offence, natural life in prison for repeat offenders.
Yes, but if "Trusted Computing" gains its foothold, your live CD will just be a useless coaster. Wasn't there a recent story saying to get a Windows 8 certification, a computer had to turn on the TPM module on by default? Meaning it wouldn't run an "untrusted" OS unless you shut it off in the BIOS. How long until there is no option in the BIOS to turn it off at all? The day may be coming.
"One crackpot idea from an idiot who knows nothing about technology does not constitute a reasonable proposal.
How do you think we got saddled with the DMCA?
Mr. Motti, I salute you: Sieg Heil!
If all else fails, pull the plug and get out...
The Life is out there...
With that logic. A much higher percentage of priests have been involved in child abuse than computers. The day they log everything a priest does and sees, they are welcome to monitor my computer use.
The log-box could in fact be be the holy grail for those who would police the Internet. Any politician worth their salt would immediately recognize the money making potential here. Make the boxes compulsory and suddenly you have an instant market of epic proportions, just think how much money, money for nothing, a politician and his cronies in manufacturing can make from this, then you realize that this has a really good chance of flying.
We all suffer some what from "pedo-hysteria". In this pseudo-anon environment we post freely about these issues but what if this was at the dinner table with extended family? Co Workers? We would all error on the side of "hysteria" to make sure people knew we HATE pedophiles too!!!
When it's "for the children" you can be assured of two things. The facts are exaggerated (and questioning the facts makes you a child-hater) and also that someone wants more control over you (read: $$$).
When it's for-the-children and we play fast-and-loose with the facts we can't actually pin point problems and issues that might actually HELP the children, because those problems and issues are obfuscated with hyperbole and hysteria. We are too concerned with NOT appearing sympathetic to the Pedos...
Yes children get molested in the making of child porn and ideally we would want to stop all molestation, but which is better, one paedophile making CP and a thousand wanking over it, or 10% of those thousand finding children to molest because they couldn't get CP to wank over? And I'm sure a lot of CP has already been made, so it isn't like more children need to get molested so paedophiles can have some CP.
And to be clear, I am not entirely opposed to those involved in sexual abuse of children being castrated, although there are undoubtedly human rights issues with that sort of punishment.
While the stated intentions are good, this seems to be a highly invasive use of storage. Everyone should backup their data, but it seems unnecessary for the government to have it readily available at all times. Furthermore, it probably wouldn't be long before users found a clever way around it.
http://www.mosaictec.com