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US Defunds UNESCO After Palestine Vote
gzipped_tar writes "The U.S. withdrew funding after the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization's Palestine membership vote yesterday. The decision was triggered by a 1994 US law that requires financial ties to be cut with any UN agency that accords the Palestinians full membership. As Palestine actively pursues entrance to other UN agencies, the defunding list could grow. Interestingly, World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO) could also be among Palestine's next target, and U.S. is the big supporter of WIPO. A much more disturbing scenario is Palestine joining the International Atomic Energy Agency, cutting American funding to the organization that monitors nuclear proliferation in states like Iran."
UNESCO is one of the most highly regarded and wide-spread agencies for cultural preservation in the World. There is a fundamental flaw in a law predicating U.S. contributions to the United Nations and U.N. affiliates on their members voting a certain way. UNESCO does not control its members and how they vote.
The fact that a majority of UNESCO members want to grant admission to a Palestinian state is no reason for the U.S. to "pick up its marbles and go home." UNESCO would be better with U.S. participation. The U.S. would be better off by participating in UNESCO.
This law should be repealed before the US has removed itself from every UN organization in the world.
Any organization that does then should obviously not be funded by us. Pretty simple.
Yes, please!
Yes, of course, the U.S.'s discrimination against Palestine in all matters is very helpful. The U.S. said the peace process benefits from pulling out of UNESCO, so of course it does. Just as funding Israel's military and violations of International Law helps the peace process.
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And now the power has shifted, and the other side is showing what they've learned. (Hint: Nothing about how to be good people, lots about how to sell oppression.)
I fail to see progress.
'Sensible' is a curse word.
True. Note that Hitler was a good customer of Ford. Did Hitler buy only black cars ?
aaaaaaa
This is an excellent news for Unesco, It did leave it alone from 1984 till 2002/3 and this was mutch better than the years between 2003 and Now.
First it will remove a large cadre of US employees from Unesco staff, and since there is a total disconnect between the US point of view on education and culture and the rest of the world it will enable the Unesco to work more efficiently without having to focus on making large american corporations and large US private universities happy.
It also shows how spitefull the current administration is (well the other party would probably do the same), influence at the unesco is largelly dependent on the size of each state contribution, so the US with 22% would have buried the palestinian, in practice maybe one or two managers and at most half a dozen palestinian employees will be hired, and probably mostly active in some cultural history preservation task in the middle east.
The US could have said publicly that the vote of Unesco is not binding for them, and that the officially "protest" the cooptation of a non state as a full member, but that they would go on working with Unesco to further cultural, etc....
But no, they have to "punish" the UN, well certainly there are a lot of undemocratic and unsavory regime who have influence there, but remember many are "allies" of the US, and there is no easy way to get people of the world represented.
To those who think that the US should "remove itself from the UN", just remember that this would in practice mean that "big countries" would unilaterally govern by "divide and conquer", so in the "best (from US point of view) case" you would have an "imperial republic" leading the world by having a small minority (only about 5% of the world population are US citizens) vote for everybody else, in the more likely case you would have the Communist Party of China ruling the world... (US waste of money in the financial system created the crisis which now pushes the European to borrow money from the PRC, how long do you think it will take till you have to pay the interests ?).
So meanwhile thank you very much leaving the Unesco alone...
How many of the people who did that are still alive?
What happened then has nothing to do with what is happening now.
Its funny how there is so much concern for the lack of funding that may result from this. But there is 0 concern that the Palestinian organization/ terrorist groups (aka Hamas) that make up their government are not forced to comply with the standards established by the organization. It supposed to support peace, freedom right and understanding. I didn't know supporting suicide bombings was a plus on the application. The bottom line is just a couple of weeks ago the Palestinians cheered many returned from jail for committing unspeakable acts of murder on civilians and the UN member countries (most of which are run by thuggish dictators) looked the other way. The UN has a long history of antisemitism, from the Durban conference to multiple other examples. The US foots far too much of the bill for these organizations as it is. If they want to continue in their racist ways, it shouldn't be on our dime. PS this isn't just for new projects, UNSECO won't get another dime going forward. Other agencies should keep this in mind before supporting a group on multiple terrorist list (Hamas) with a full membership in a international body.
Please grant Palestine full membership in WIPO, preferably yesterday.
Because they fight Isreal.
"I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
When did we go from "America the Beautiful" to "America the Butthurt"?
That is beside the point that we didn't need to be funding UNESCO in the first place, but to leave over something like this is just stupid. If you are going to leave, leave on principle, and leave all these unconstitutional organizations while you are at it. Withdraw from all the countries where we are not bound by treaty to be, and renegotiate the treaties binding our forces to those remaining nations as soon as possible. We can trade with anyone and everyone, but we don't need to wave guns in their faces while we do it. It is time the US stopped being a world paramilitary (no longer just police) force, and started being a world citizen again.
Do that, and terrorism against America will evaporate like a bad dream almost overnight.
Most peoples in the world do not hate Americans on a personal level, they mostly hate your government and his vulgar display of power.
Jehovah be praised, Oracle was not selected
Thinking Israel is no better than all the other fuckers over there in the armpit of the world is hardly antisemitism.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Evelyn Beatrice Hall, re Voltaire
As an American, I think we should be much less involved in world affairs, we have our own problems to deal with. Let the rest of the world police itself. That being said, I get sick and tired of assholes (like parent AC) that criticize and bash the U.S. while living in a country that most likely takes aid from us and/or has been protected by our military at their Governments request.
If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
For definitions of 'Good customer' that mean 'eventually steal (expropriate) your plants and equipment'.
Not that Henry Ford, Joe Kennedy and Prescott Bush didn't agree with Hitler regarding the Hebrews. But that is another discussion.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
The one thing that pisses me off more than Jew haters are the people who consistently play the antisemitism card.
If I don't agree with one bonehead decision from Israel, it's because it's a bonehead decision.
If I think Avigdor Lieberman is an asshole, it really is because he's an asshole.
I couldn't care less about religion.
You've clearly never been to Israel, nor to the West Bank or Gaza. Where are the concentration camps? Where are the mass graves? Why are there no Arabs in the Knesset? Why do Arabs have to wear funny armbands or get tattooed?
Fine and thank you (I guess). I wish we would pull out of most if not all countries and scale back our military significantly, but a good portion of the rest of the world expects us to be there when there is war or the threat of it. A lot of Countries have very little military, because they know we are here (or there) to protect them. We are swimming in debt because the world wants us to be the worlds police, and not only do they not pay us for it, we usually pay them in the form of aid. It is royally screwed up.
If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
Most peoples in the world do not hate Americans on a personal level, they mostly hate your government and his [sic] vulgar display of power.
So most people in the world have a lot in common with most Americans.
I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
How about 8,000 rockets launched into Israel in the last 10 years?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel
Or blowing up a school bus full of kids:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avivim_school_bus_massacre
Or hundreds of other attacks on unarmed civilians.
I'm not trying to establish moral equivalence or paint them as the sole bad guys or any other kind of oversimplification. I'm just trying to point out that if you're not aware of why the Palestinians are regarded with deep suspicion, then you really don't know anything at all about the nature of the conflict.
Unfortunately, Islam has been hijacked by radicals who believe the only good non-Muslim is a dead one. What you say is true, but that's history. No ME country tolerates Jews, accept for Israel.
(Not that Jews are not allowed, but they must practice in secret, if at all.)
The Palestinians are hoisting the U.S by it's own petard. The U.S. government passed the 1994 law as a "do what we say or else" measure, under the false belief that this would force the UN to follow U.S. policy. Instead, the Palestinians are being admitted to UN agencies anway, and we're cutting our own throat automatically.
It's not the Palestinians who should be worried.
All about me
What is Palestinian land, exactly? The West Bank was captured from Jordan in the '67 War. Jordan hasn't asked for it back, so who else should it belong to?
The question no asks is why is UNESCO voting to allow membership to the Palestinian Authority? Typically one has to be a state in order to qualify for membership in a UN state organization. The Palestinian Authority has submitted an application applying for state status in the UN General Assembly and the UN Security Council, but it hasn't yet come up for debate, so it seems to me that this is putting the cart before the wagon. My guess is that this just politics, and since typically what used to be called the non-aligned nations basically have an automatic majority except on the Security Council they can pretty much do whatever they want, even if it violates UN rules. My question is this: if Palestine can be a member of UNESCO, should we in the future expect Puerto Rico to be a member of UNICEF? Or the Kurdistan Regional Government of Iraq a member of the UN Human Rights Council. This action may open the door to all kinds of unforeseen trouble.
That's because every Muslim country votes for any anti-Israel measure, then so do Russia and China just to take a jab at the US by opposing Israel.
Tell that to the prominent Muslims whose policy is that Israel should be wiped from the Earth. This is Iran's policy, this is the policy of Hamas. The only way the Jews will be allowed to live there is under Muslim rule as second-class citizens.
Yes, I know the Muslim definition of hate speech -- anything that exposes their violent history and their genocidal goals. That's why they've been trying to get a ban on "defamation of religion" passed in the UN. And unlike US defamation law, the truth will not be a defense.
Because they're terrorists and sponsors of terrorism. At least historically (the law is from 1994, remember). Seriously. Children suicide bombers, using kindergartens and hospitals as armories and staging grounds for armed assaults, that sort of thing. So a law preventing funding to an organization which they are members of (which would likely result in them receiving funding from said organization which they would quite likely use to make bombs, or at least hide them underneath medical supplies) made sense. Again, made, I don't know if it still does.
"None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
Because they fight Isreal.
Terrorist attacks is not "fighting" it is terrorism. The land in which they are "fighting" over isn't even their land. It is a disputed territory between Jordan and Israel ... not Israel and this non-country of "Palestine". I feel for the people of that land, but they elected something they didn't fully understand when they brought in Hamas the same way Germany turned to the Nazi movement. I have a feeling that this isn't going to end well for "Palestine" which may be lucky to resemble post-war Germany before this is over.
It takes a special kind of fool to equate what Israel does to the execution of six million Jews. The Palestinians are in no risk of becoming extinct. One does not have to approve of everything Israel does, but when you frame things the way you do, well, it just makes look either like an evil fucking bastard or a plain worthless brainless moron.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Small army terror attacks from Palestine have still done little in comparison to big army oppression attacks from Israel.
You didn't mention that every time borders and peace is agreed upon, that Israel moves in with bulldozers and tanks in under a year, disrupting and encroaching upon the palestinian underdog.
Or we can keep pretending what you said happened for no reason at all...
The "self-hating Jew" card is even better.
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I doubt they care at least not the ones that have a say about this.
Palestinians did hijack Pan Am Flight 73 and did kill several American citizens during the standoff. I'm fairly certain that's not the only case, but I'm not sufficiently motivated to dig them all up to pander to your disingenuous feigned ignorance.
I support the Slashcott and will not be reading or commenting from 2/10/14 to 2/17/14. Beta is steaming pile of dog shit
The local Muslims have wanted the Jews dead or out of the area since the Ottomans stopped enforcing that everybody get along. In the 20s and 30s their efforts to murder or expel the local Jews hadn't been very effective with the British in charge.
They saw that the Nazis were becoming powerful, and that they wanted all Jews dead, so they hitched their wagon to that cause in the hopes that their Jewish problem could be solved.
Their Jew hatred didn't start with the Nazis, they were just natural allies. Those people aren't still alive, but their ideology is still running strong in Palestine.
Ah frame things the way you do = tell the truth. There is nothing Israels supporters hate more than the truth about
the situation. Calling people names who dont beleive the lies is pathetic.
It isn't at all surprising that UNESCO was the first part of the UN to recognize the Palestinian state. UNESCO has long been the most anti-Israel of any part of the UN I don't like the terms "pro-Palestinian" and "pro-Israel" as counterparts, one can be in favor of both. Focusing on that sort of approach creates way too much of a dichotomy. But, UNESCO is just anti-Israel. This is an organization which kicked Israel out temporarily once before, and at one point tried in an amazing example of historical revisionism apparently tried to claim that Maimonides was a Muslim. (See http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4097506,00.html). Maimonides was for those who are not aware a premier Jewish philosopher and doctor in the Middle Ages who wrote the 13 principles of faith that Orthodox Jews generally as their founding beliefs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maimonides. UNESCO has also accused Israel of damaging archaeological sites even as the archaeological community has praised Israel for its preservation work. The bottom line is that UNESCO has a long history of not doing its actual job of promoting peace in the region and cultural/scientific cooperation but instead pushing an anti-Israel agenda. The Maimonides example is probably one of the worse, but it is the sort of nonsense that some people are talking about when they say that some forms of anti-Israel behavior really are just motivated by anti-Semitism.
All of that said, defunding UNESCO is a bad idea. They do some good work in the Middle East. And they do very good work on the rest of the globe. Moreover, recognizing a Palestinian state isn't that big a deal. This isn't like UNESCO's attempt 35 years ago to just kick Israel out.
The people most likely to be harmed by this are the Palestinians. Which is sad. The UN could for example have used this as an opportunity to push for better protections for minorities in the Palestinian territories, especially gays and Christians. UNESCO itself could have used this as an opportunity to get better protection of non-Islamic historical sites by the Palestinian governments. The people who are really hurt by this sort of thing are the Palestinian refugees in areas like Jordan who aren't being given citizenship in this new state, which means even if all of this goes through they will still be stateless people without a government to genuinely represent them.
Not quite.
It is certainly true that many Middle Eastern countries are actively hostile both to jews and to the state of Israel, but not every country, or it's citizenry is actively hostile to both. The brush with which you paint is a little too broad.
Only if your definition of "fight" is like the one in bullfighting.
Under international law, capture and occupation does not confer ownership. It belongs to its original owners.
Tell that to the terrorist jews that used the same tactics on that land before the UN gave it to them.
Like the way you ignore that Israel has killed 10X more pals than their have been killed an mostly civilians.
Palestinian statehood is only a temporary situation until they can destroy Israel. They admit this. It is a solution only if your end goal is a world without Israel.
The only obvious real solution is for the world to let Israel defend itself, for the Palestinians to know that attacks on Israel will be met with extreme retaliation, for Muslims to give up their third most holy site and allow Israel to have their one, and for all the other Muslim countries residing within the historical area of Palestine (present-day Syria, Lebanon and Jordan) to absorb their Palestinian populations instead of talking about "right of return" since those people are still in Palestine.
Under the Symington Amendment, we're not allowed to give aide to nuclear nations who won't sign onto the NTP. They get around the legality of it, with a don't ask, don't tell policy. But everyone knows Israel has nukes, so it really is a flagrant violation of US law.
"The law was passed in 1994. It sounds like the administration of George H W Bush was the cause."
?
Clinton was elected in 1992 and sworn in in early 1993.
At first I thought maybe you were meaning the changeover in congressional majority. But the Republican majority in the house was elected in Novemeber 1994, but didn't take office until early 1995.
... and exactly who is pointing a gun at your goverment head to make it waste all those billions in defense? The american military industry, that is who; now you know, and knowing is half the battle.
Its the region now called Israle stolen form its owners in 1948, as most people with a scrap of knowledge of history would know.
"Less american influence, the better the world will be."
Agreed, and the less Americans will be blamed for outcomes.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Atomic_Energy_Agency#Membership
Any state can join.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
What part of "I'm not trying to establish moral equivalence" turned out to be too difficult to understand?
with representatives directly elected by the people of the world, divided into roughly equal population chunks.
This United Nations crap is so half-measures. I'm sick of it. I'd pay taxes to a real and democratic world government
capable of addressing global environmental issues effectively, and capable of reigning in the current power of
multi-national corporations to trample over local laws or to buy US congresspeople.
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
What part of "I'm not trying to establish moral equivalent" is proving beyond your grasp?
"How about 8,000 rockets launched into Israel in the last 10 years?"
Israel, Palestine, they are both as bad as each other. For every Palestinian atrocity you can name, I can name an Israeli one. That game will lead you nowhere.
https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=israeli+atrocites+against+Palatine&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gl=uk#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&client=ubuntu&hs=sXN&channel=fs&gl=uk&source=hp&q=israeli+atrocities+against+Palastine&pbx=1&oq=israeli+atrocities+against+Palastine&aq=f&aqi=&aql=1&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=4447l6253l0l6880l9l6l0l2l2l0l413l1438l0.3.2.0.1l8l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&fp=3dd5bec6e38bb980&biw=1901&bih=854
Sigh.
What's less pointless is looking at whether continued US support for Israel has contributed in large part to the growth of radical Islam and instability of the Middle East in general. Of course, the British started it, but that's no excuse.
"And the meaning of words; when they cease to function; when will it start worrying you?"
I actually spent several summers working in Israel, and regularly visited the West Bank. Couldn't get access to Gaza though.
As for your questions: The West Bank and (especially) Gaza are effectively light-duty concentration camps. (Not dedicated, but high-density with low access to food, water, sanitation, or jobs.) Mass graves tend to draw attention. (And direct killing isn't the system being used here.) The ~10% of the Knesset (none of whom are Palestinian: they have to be Israeli) aren't a major political force of their own. And the random police checks, and the requirement that every Palestinian who wants to enter Israel (which means any of them who want to leave their home town for any reason...) register for travel papers, in person, every year, would be similar in effect.
Of course, a closer parallel would be with aparthied-era South Africa.
'Sensible' is a curse word.
you should remember from your childhood the "good will" generated when the owner of tha ball picked it up and went home, unless of course you were the owner of the ball back then.
As Samuel Huntington mentioned in "The Clash of Civilizations," our 222-year flirtation with internationalist liberal democracy is coming to an end and nationalism is rising.
http://www.pan-nationalism.org/
Futurist Traditionalism
"Also - can someone post a link to this supposed 1994 law?
It was part of a spending bill covering foreing relations for 1994 and 1995:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h103-2333
Section 410 is the part in question. It's described in the legislative summary at:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h103-2333&tab=summary
Text:
Section 410 -
Prohibits U.S. contributions to any affiliated organization of the United Nations or to the United Nations if they grant full membership as a state to a group that does not have internationally recognized attributes of statehood.
The final law is actually P.L. 103-246 Title IV US Code.
Digging down into convoluted listings of the US Code is best left to someone with more legal-researcher-fu than I. But that should help someone else get started.
That is good, but it doesn't address Brad's question. It is our government and its vulgar display of power that is being complained about and that Brad is pointing out the world wants when it benefits them. I am with Brad in wishing our government would get out of most of the countries and scale back our military significantly, but he is right that a good portion of the rest of the world criticizes our government from their face, while asking for handouts (cash and military services) from the other side of it.
Spain also became quite hostile to non-catholics after a fashion. Further, that "Golden age" was not only in Spain, but in northern Africa as well. Jews had to pay a special tax to muslim rulers, and in some parts of the middle east were slaves to muslims. While both cultures flourished, one clearly saw itself as superior to the other. Further, it wasn't all that great for the jews:
My heart is in the east, and I in the uttermost west--
How can I find savour in food? How shall it be sweet to me?
How shall I render my vows and my bonds, while yet
Zion lieth beneath the fetter of Edom, and I in Arab chains?
A light thing would it seem to me to leave all the good things of Spain --
Seeing how precious in mine eyes to behold the dust of the desolate sanctuary.
- by Yehuda Halevi, My Heart Is In the East, 1141, Translated from the Hebrew by Nina Salaman, 1924
Yes, jews were producing good works, and sometimes had positions of authority, but equality was well beyond their reach in Christian or Moorish Spain.
It's always easy to tell when someone is uneducated on the subject of Israeli and Palestinian relations because they blame one side or the other when there is equal fault on both sides.
Small army terror attacks? You need to learn a little history.
The reality is BOTH SIDES of done some awful shit. Anyone who tries to blame one side or the other is just ignorant to the entirety of the situation.
It's sort of like the Berlin wall, very few western leaders wanted it to come down and pressured the East to prevent it, as soon as it fell they furiously back peddled in an attempt to take the credit (or at least try to make it look as if that's what they had wanted all along).
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
The ODA only focuses on official government aid in calculating it's results. The main problem with that it the US, in general, places a very high value on independence and as such they prefer to donate on an individual front and not through federal committee.
The Index of Global Philanthropy (warning, this is a PDF) gives a much more accurate view of international giving.
To be fair, Sweden is still in the #1 spot as a percentage of GNI, but the numbers are much closer. You'll can also notice most of the top countries on the ODA graph have exceptionally small values for personal donations and the US appears to be the only country where personal donations exceed governmental.
Of course that's just my opinion...... you could be wrong!
I dont support those who think that shooting people or blowing people up is acceptable but I do believe that the Palestinians have as much right to a state/homeland as the Israelis or anyone else.
If the Israelis had stuck to the borders set by the UN in the the late 1940s (and if Palestine had done likewise) this whole mess wouldn't have been such a big problem.
I didn't intend it to lead anywhere. I'm as frustrated about this as you are.
I'm just also frustrated by people who come into this with "Oh, those poor sweet Palestinians, they never did anything, never hurt a fly." We're not going to find easy answers, and we can at least stop pretending that it's simple.
We all know that the US is going to do whatever Israel asks for, because they are scared of what Israel can do to the economy if they don't. As for the peace process, neither the US nor Israel are being truthful about it. They both believe that peace means Israel is the only country in the middle east. They are both supporting Israel genocidal expansionist policy.
Hah Hah! You dumped the English King for some Zionist Death Cult!
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Inanimate objects are neuter in english. "its" would be the word you're looking for.
Sent from my PDP-11
Its the region now called Israle stolen form its owners in 1948, as most people with a scrap of knowledge of history would know.
Yeah, as if that part of the planet sprang into existence in 1947 owned by whomever it was and those awful Jews just walked in and took over.
Ummm, wait. An awful lot of people who are defending the UN and UNESCO here seem to be forgetting that Israel was created by the UN in 1948. And that the land was occupied by the Jews for many centuries prior to the existence of the UN, them being thrown out during the years following about 0 BCE. That the Muslims didn't come in until 620 or so, so they are relative newcomers to the property. That almost as soon as the UN created the place, the neighbors decided to try to wipe them off the map.
Of course, you can discount this Zionist propaganda fluff piece.
The only truth of the matter is, that part of the world has been through so many changes of hands and has so much religious significance to so many people that there will never be peace there. It is simply impossible for two sides to come to terms, especially when one of them has made it clear their only acceptable solution is to remove not only the country but the people from the earth.
Don't assume your skewed views of the world have anything to do with reality. A Leftie distortion field is in effect.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
Considering that UNESCO doesn't actually do anything in Israel, if they kicked Israel out the reaction would be a big yawn.
-- Support a free market in the field of government
Not that government is an inanimate object, oops. Conceptual things too. Anything that isn't alive and capable of having a (physical) gender.
so people, animals, pretty much, get his and her (and its, but people don't like using it on people for some unknown reason*), everything else gets its.
* This is why you see retarded shit like 'he/she' instead of it.
Sent from my PDP-11
lol. Right.
America involved: "Stupid interventionist Americans!"
America not involved: "Stupid selfish Americans, why didn't they get involved before this came to a head?!"
I'm with the rednecks, even though I don't believe in god: Fuck 'em, let god sort 'em out.
Maybe this will be the first step in getting the UN (useless nations) OUT of the United States. Move them to Switzerland or some other "neutral" country, and take your stupid staff's with you.
Polling suggests Americans as a whole could give a rip about Palestinian issues, and support Israel if they think about it at all. Thus, the tune is increasingly called by Christian Zionists, to the point where Jewish Zionists have become the tail wagged by the dog. So it goes in Congress.
If/when the Palestinian Authority is admitted to the WIPO and WTO, it'll get really interesting. P.L. 101-246, Title IV (1990) and P.L. 103-236, Title IV (1994) can be amended, and a wide range of large contributors to Congressional races are probably already drafting suitable language, JIC. But, when push comes to shove, who will want it more: big money, or big religion?
Luke, help me take this mask off
So, are they Semites, or Jews, or Israelis, or Zionists, or what are they calling themselves this month?
I'm not anti-Semitic, but I am sure anti- towards Israel government acting like a "spoiled child" and just starting shit for no moral reason.
And of course one also has to look at Arafat's extremely poor decision to back Saddam Hussein when he invaded Kuwait, pissing off his Saudi backers no end and paving the way for that river of money to shift in Hamas's direction. Of course, without that shift there probably would have been no 1993 peace talks, and so back to square one.
It is commonly said that the Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
Meanwhile Israelis keep electing loony-right governments that build more and more illegal settlements filled with trigger-happy immigrants from Brooklyn for reasons that I frankly can't fathom.
after Palestine vote.
I thought I'd been living in a bad dream and woken up to a rational and just world.
But no....
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
Put simply that part of the world was already lived in by its owners, when the Un who did not own the land decided to give it to the descendants of people who left a long time ago. Land was stolen form its owners, who unsuprisingly dont think they should lose their land because of a guilt trip about their treatment of jewish refugees in WW2. Let me be clear I was once a strong supporter of Israel, but their own actions have led to me reversing my opinion in the last 10 years.
99% of people outside the US have a lot in common with 99% of the people inside it. It's both our 1% running the governments as their own playground that are the main problem. The whole issue about Palestine is a non-issue. All of the UNESCO funding over the last decade isn't even a drop in the bucket compared to the money given to banks and other companies. 80 million dollar per year? It's not even as much as the bonus for a moderately well-paid banker.
Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
What you said was absolutely one-sided, and pays no regard to the assumed acceptability of Israeli involvement in the same circles, despite being equal offenders. Will you admit that there ought be equal skepticism to including Israel? From the way you backpedaled, I would expect you to agree.
Well it took USA only 10 years to recognize Kosovo as a state, after bomb-bomb "liberation". Somehow 60 years is premature for Palestine. Land of the free (lies). Home of the brave (firefighters?). Stop invading other countries, and use that money to fix your own house. And don't give money to Israel or to anyone else. Then a Middle East peace treaty will be signed immediately.
Imagine if Israel and all their neighbors (inc. the Arabs) became great allies. They'd be a very powerful force: Israel would have the technology and know-how, everyone else with the land, the human capital, and the energy. This sort of alliance is supposed to happen in the future world of Ender's Game (specifically mentioned as a historical fact in the sequel Shadow Puppets). They are too busy bombing each other and showing how great they are instead of realizing they are simply long-lost cousins of different branches of the Abrahamic Religions with a Lot in common (just realized after editing that's a pretty horrible pun...). It's a shame, really.
I can hold out hope that with the Arab Spring, something is changing, but I fear it will revert back to same old, same old. I can easily see the Arab Spring being used as a weapon against peace, but they do say that democracies do not wage war against each other or only very, VERY rarely... So IF democracy gains a foothold in the Arab world through the "Arab Spring," there may be hope for progress towards peace and a Middle East regarded not as a flee-bitten backwater but as a cultural and economic powerhouse rivaling Europe and America. I'm not holding my breath, though (prove my cynicism wrong, Middle East!).
Want the US to have respect and influence in the free world ? .. not to our displeasure at all ! :)
Internationalism is the key you so brilliantly flush
If the USA can finally be put in it's place we will be all the better for it.
Let guys like you pave the path to the total international irrelevance of the USA
And God bless America
They may not be Jews, but they are Semites (just like the Jews).
What's less pointless is looking at whether continued US support for Israel has contributed in large part to the growth of radical Islam and instability of the Middle East in general. Of course, the British started it, but that's no excuse.
I wonder how things would be different today if Guy Fawkes had been successful.
I expect people not to hijack planes if they want to keep off our "I don't care if you die like a diseased dog in a ditch" list. That's pretty much what I expect.
Maxim: People cannot follow directions.
Increases in truth directly with the length of time spent explaining them
I didn't expect someone in the comments to this story to refer to the Spanish Inquisition.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
For every Palestinian atrocity you can name, I can name an Israeli one. That game will lead you nowhere.
That's the past, how about the future?
Which side do you think is more willing to resort to violence first?
I mean if today the slate is wiped clean, who will be the first to say "screw the status quo I'm launching a rocket/airstrike/kidnapping/invasion?"
You know the issue is about principle, not the amount of money right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_charitable_countries (US = 19th).
Breakdown of US foreign aid by country (Warning this makes for confronting reading):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_foreign_aid
The top three recipients of US foreign aid: Afghanistan, Iraq, Israel. Remove the aid for these countries, and total US foreign aid contributions are easily outstripped by any number of OECD countries.
Notably, most reliable data does not include the breakdown of 'devleopment' relief versus humanitarian relief: see here: http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/47/25/41724314.pdf
Note that 'bilateral development relief' means that the donor country attaches specific requirements to the aid, e.g. this aid is for a bridge, or power station, and it must be built by contractors from the donor country. Also not mentioned is the other purpose, which is simply to purchase influence. Which brings us to China. Why is China spending so much money in Africa?
http://www.cgdev.org/files/13953_file_Chinese_aid.pdf They are not being charitable, they are just purchasing votes from those countries in key contests. Consider what happened at the Copenhagen round of climate discussions - a major diplomatic loss for the west, and a major win for China. Why? Because China (or more accurately BRIC (Brazil/Russia/India/China) ) bought Africa.
By the relatively paucity of it's foreign aid budget, the US is effectively eating it's own young.
There is, and you used it -- it's labeled "Reply to This".
Space game using normal deck of cards: http://BattleCards.org
Hmmm let's look at the UN's history ... now let's look at the USA's history (including recent) ...
No I'm pretty sure I want the UN down, and the US standing. I Pray you never face a UN "fix" for a situation, in fact I pray I'll never do so either.
what peace treaty nonsense are you talking about, Israel (and the US) only wants that egypt and jordan that what is left of palestine and be done with it.
Thinking Israel is no better than all the other fuckers over there in the armpit of the world is hardly antisemitism.
When someone accuses you of being an antisemite for not choosing the side of Israel over the Palestinians, remind them that arabs are Semites too.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
It takes a special kind of fool to equate what Israel does to the execution of six million Jews. The Palestinians are in no risk of becoming extinct. One does not have to approve of everything Israel does, but when you frame things the way you do, well, it just makes look either like an evil fucking bastard or a plain worthless brainless moron.
To be pedantic, the Jews were never in any real danger of extinction. There were enough in the US to keep that from happening. I'm not trying to lessen the impact of what happened, just pointing out the absurdity of claiming that people aren't suffering because they're not all going to die.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Few international institutions have helped more to further US interests more than UN and UNESCO, in strictly political and economical terms. If they want to surrender one of the best tools of US soft power to the chinese, I'm sure they will happily accept that gift.
Mexico: 100% conservative's America now!
This is definitely a pivot in history, we'll look back on this time and mark it as the beginning of a new world perspective.
The amount that is being withheld is US60 million.
Another world powers (or a coalition of like-minded states) could easily fill the gap and buy more influence.
China who wants to tote itself as a Modern country might quite like the PR.
One interesting vote is going to be the one that aims to recognize Palestine as a state. I would love to see the US withhold funding to the UNSC!! Imagine the glee on the faces of the Chinese and Russians when they realise that the US is diminishing its influence, just so Israel can continue to build illegal towns and dawdle on peace talks. I'm sure China and Russia would gladly pay the funding void!
I don't think you understand what "partisan" means, even though you defined it in your first paragraph.
Not because there's any sense in those broad political views aligning with such peculiarities, but because their party allegiances require it.
First you say the system is not partisan enough, and then you say the system is broken because politicians vote by allegiance to party i.e. are partisans. I understand what you were getting at, but it has nothing to do with increasing or decreasing partisan politics. Partisan politics are still destructive when more segments of a diverse population are represented. As I said before, if anything, it would cause less to be done as the increase in different unwaivering political ideals would mean less likelihood of a majority vote succeeding on any issue.
They're not white enough.
Could be pretty interesting.
Where did those Jewish refugees come from in WW2, and in 1947 for that matter. Surely they didn't all come from Europe?
Canada also pulled out of UNESCO after Palestine was voted in, so it wasn't just the US.
But Muslim citizens can vote and are even in parliament. Can you show me reciprocation in a Muslim state?
So vote Israel.
So you're saying the US doesn't agree with the culture of the advancement of Education, Science, Justice, the Rule of Law and Human Rights? Well, alright then.
Canada also signed ACTA. We're sort of not voting or acting for or towards our own interests, ideas or ideologies up here.
First, return all of the "refugees," making the population overwhelmingly Muslim, then have elections. After that, the Jews will be permanently reduced to second-class citizen status, will have no say in their government, and have to pay the Jizya.
If the Jews have the majority, the violence will simply continue, and it will continue until the Jews are either driven out (as they were in the other Muslim Arab states) or subjugated under a Muslim (Sharia) government.
The secular democratic state sounds fine, and that's what it is now, a democratic parliamentary system with universal suffrage. But you need to realize that the Muslims will accept nothing less than the entire area falling under a Muslim religious state.
Except that corporations are considered people, and have considerably more money to influence *WHATEVER* politicians get in (usually before they get in, campaign contributions and all).
One description of the law that I saw said that the US couldn't fund organizations that accepted The PLO as full members. If that was accurate then the US action is against both their treaty obligations and the law. As far as I can tell it wasn't the PLO that was admitted, it was The Palestinian Authority -- a completely different beast.
Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
Butt-head Republican ideology trumps sanity.
It's no wonder the Middle East is still such a conflagration -- the US actively prevents any kind of normal relations there.
It's almost as if right-wing fundamentalists are trying to bring about Armageddon so they can all get Raptured up into Asshole Heaven.
I HATE right-wingers. They are so GOD-DAMN STUPID.
One day I feel I'm ahead of the wheel / the next it's rolling over me / I can get back on / I can get back on
The PLO law was from 1986 and was replaced by a 1994 law that made it about terrorist orgs in general, so that we wouldn't have to rewrite it every time the palestinians came up with a new terrorist org to be in charge.
"Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
Yeah, starting shit for no reason. Ignorant much, or just here?
Morocco's Jewish population: 1948, 250,000. Present, 3,000.
The only thing that protected Iran's Jewish community was the fact that it was not run as a Muslim state until the 1979 revolution, when most of the Jews fled. It largely missed the Muslim fervor to kill and expel the Jews in the wake of the creation of Israel.
Iran does have a Jewish member of the assembly, but that's only token. All religious minorities combined get five seats in the almost three hundred seat assembly. The all-Islamic Guardian Council gets to choose who can be in the assembly, and you can bet the number of minority seats will never rise above that token five.
The sad part is those token members have to violate their faith to enter the assembly, since they have to swear they are committed to the Iranian constitution, which, among other things, commits them to furthering the Islamic revolution.
I didn't "backpedal", and I don't have to "admit" that Israel deserves skepticism. I said as much; this isn't something you're drawing out of me.
But my point wasn't to try to claim that I had some solution that identified the bad guys. My point is that it's complex and that standing there pointing out the wrongs doesn't get us anywhere, ESPECIALLY when (as in the case of the original poster) the person seems to be ignoring all of them by one side.
All I've done is to bring the question where it could potentially be hashed out, starting with recognizing that each side has reasons to be deeply distrustful and suspicious of the other. The OP was already there for half of it, but completely ignorant of the other half. I corrected that, not that it's going to do anybody any good.
I think when the UN supports terror and terrorist groups as it regularly does, we should ask ourselves if we should be funding such an organization.
My God can beat up your God. Just kidding...don't take offense. I know there's no God.
...A national policy both practical and fun!
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
First of all, your point does not actually contradict mine. Why does the UN describe the US as non-free ? Simple: the UN is one vote per member, and the vast majority of it's members have the troublesome (for them) combo of being non-free, have a population that wants more freedom than they have, and are governments that are not capable of defending against the US for even a few weeks.
The UN council is filled with Gadhaffis, I assume you do not find it all that hard to understand that the US just lost popularity with them in the past few months ? Needless to say, state media of all these countries have reviewed their views of the US accordingly. Read Xinhua every now and then, and please remember that compared to the press of, say Iran or Bolivia they are pretty nice and fair in their coverage of the US. In Iran's national press you read about failed experiments on babies by the US military biweekly.
As for your point, the US may be corrupt, partially corrupt, or not corrupt at all. What measures it's "corruptness" is how much it goes against the interest of the people it governs. Regardless of that fact, the following holds :
People in China - see how the US is corrupted "somewhat" - versus their own government which is 100% corrupt by definition*
People in Northern African countries - see how the US is corrupted "somewhat" - versus their own government which is 100% corrupt by definition
People in most of Asia - ditto
Southern America - ditto (with a few large exceptions)
Most of Africa - ditto
Russia - ditto
* obviously this means that the government does not represent the interests of the people they're governing - at all. Also known as the democratic standard
There are 3 democratic countries with relatively large populations - the US, the EU, and India. Democracy represents about 1.5-2 billion people worldwide, depending on where your standard is (e.g. you could easily make the point that India lacks several essential freedoms that Americans have, you could even make a decent point that the EU is not a free democratic nation (because there is no separation between powers - both the legislature (which is the commission, not parliament, despite the name) and the executive powers lie in the commission. The justice has at least a modicum of independence, but not really since the same people that run the commission elect judges (who need to get re-elected every 6 years by -the same people as- the commission).
Other governments are either tiny, or are not democratic at all.
You know what that means ? At the very least 60% of people alive today do not live in a democracy. If you are being pedantic, excluding India will bring that up to 80%, excluding the EU for the really pedantic brings the number over 90%.
So "the US government has been corrupted" - you can make that argument. But it's not nearly as bad as the governments 60-90% of people live under. Americans are -at the very least- amongst the 10% most free people on this planet by the standard of participation in their own government - and that's assuming the US government has been corrupted. If it hasn't, Americans are the most free 4% of this planet.
So Israel should give the West Bank to Jordan?