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Skilled Readers Recognize Words By Shape

hessian writes "Skilled readers can recognize words at lightning fast speed when they read because the word has been placed in a visual dictionary of sorts, say Georgetown University Medical Center (GUMC) neuroscientists. The visual dictionary idea rebuts the theory that our brain 'sounds out' words each time we see them."

420 comments

  1. first pnst!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Pop quiz! who read it correctly? who read it "first post"?

    1. Re:first pnst!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      skipped it. titles are usually useless...

    2. Re:first pnst!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More like "first pest"

    3. Re:first pnst!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Okay, I'll admit it: I read "first pornstar".

    4. Re:first pnst!! by scorp1us · · Score: 1

      I read "first pants"

      --
      Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
    5. Re:first pnst!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not remotely news.....anyone in special ed. should know this and is probably using materials which capitalize on this, and has been for at least 15 yrs..proly more.....

    6. Re:first pnst!! by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      When the first motorways opened in Britain they did some research on the readability of signs and they came to the same conclusion.

      The fresh graduate from art college who designed the typeface is now an old lady - she appeared on Top Gear recently.

      So, hardly news.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    7. Re:first pnst!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This news story is stupid! This isn't a discovery by some university researchers. If anyone has taken a speed reading course, they teach you to do this! This is their known process! This is another case of a pseudoscience professor getting credit for a discovery he didn't make and for research he obviously didn't do!

    8. Re:first pnst!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think this is a different mechanic at work. I read as the article describes. However when I see faux words like this, I know they're wrong but still normally know what they should have been.

  2. Yes by tsa · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I always suspected that I read like that. I only have to spell words I don't know, or chop them up into syllables.

    --

    -- Cheers!

    1. Re:Yes by steelfood · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It also explains why we can just as easily read mispelt words where only some of the letters have been switched around. It's not which letters that get switched, but the resulting shape, that determines whether the word is easily readable or not.

      It's also why certain words are constantly spelt incorrectly or mistaken for one another. Not only are the sounds of the variations similar, and sometimes the meaning, but so are the shapes. E.g., you don't see people mistake "they're" for "their", but you see people mistake "there" for "their" and vice versa all the time. Or for that matter, "then" and "than", "effect" and "affect". And at least for myself, the first few times I saw the word "prefect" in Harry Potter, I thought it said "perfect" and kept wondering why they were so arrogant.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    2. Re:Yes by tsa · · Score: 5, Interesting

      And another thing: English is not my native language and I know a lot of English words I have never heard. Yet I can read them no problem. Another fact in favor of the theory in the article.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    3. Re:Yes by vlm · · Score: 4, Funny

      And at least for myself, the first few times I saw the word "prefect" in Harry Potter, I thought it said "perfect" and kept wondering why they were so arrogant.

      In ye olden days of 5 digit /. UIDs, that was "Ford Prefect" from HHGTTG.

      This also begs the question, of like, um, why completely inappropriately used phrases drive some people bonkers and others don't care. My visual cortex knows that "begs the question" is almost certainly meaningless filler and its application 99.9% of the time has no relation to its actual meaning, so I do not process/see it. Ditto uh, um, like. Perhaps like people in the under 30 crowd process spoken language like in a similar way, explaining why they like have this absolutely desperate like need to fill all pauses with the word "like" whenever they speak, like especially in like public.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    4. Re:Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      My god. I went the entire series reading it perfect and not prefect and didn't realize it until reading your post...

    5. Re:Yes by CaptainPatent · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Easy Proof
      Which is harder to read:

      This first sentence which is typed correctly and is correctly formatted...

      oR thIS SeConD seNTeNcE wHiCh yOU PrObaBLy doNT reCOgNiZe thE ShaPe oF?

      Thanks to annoying people on facebook, I'm sure we all already knew this.

      --
      Well, back to rejecting software patent applications.
    6. Re:Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      My experience has been that placeholder words like 'um' and 'like' mostly indicate that the speaker isn't done yet and a 'meaningful pause' invites interruption.

    7. Re:Yes by ackthpt · · Score: 1

      I always suspected that I read like that. I only have to spell words I don't know, or chop them up into syllables.

      Tougher for me, I have to recognise by a few shapes for each word, with my dyslexia.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    8. Re:Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know where you live or what sites you visit or the people you interact with, but a great many people cannot properly use 'then' and 'than', 'effect' and 'affect', and many people do confuse "they're", "their" and "there" because they do not understand how to correctly determine which of the words to use. Even journalists cannot correctly determine whether to use 'effect' vs. 'affect' or 'then' vs. 'than'. Spend some time on a news site other than slashdot and you'll see this crap all over the place.

      Personally, I think people pay more attention to the length of a word and its context (in reverse order of importance) than to the 'shape' of a word. For example, I love lvier nda onions - and you just read the first part of this sentence as 'liver and onions' in spite of the spelling mistakes because of the context and length of the words *and* in spite of the fact that if you change the context, then 'nda' becomes a valid 'word' of sorts. The fact is we are all more interested in the message being delivered, which means we care more about the context of the words (and their lengths when context alone cannot supply their meanings) than their actual spelling.

    9. Re:Yes by ackthpt · · Score: 3

      My experience has been that placeholder words like 'um' and 'like' mostly indicate that the speaker isn't done yet and a 'meaningful pause' invites interruption.

      Skilled speakers practice pauses, but not filled with umms or errrs. Example of harnessing a stammer into pauses in The King's Speech is a fair example.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    10. Re:Yes by idontgno · · Score: 4, Interesting

      that was "Ford Prefect" from HHGTTG.

      Well, to be fair, if you knew what a Ford Prefect actually was, you'd never confuse it with "perfect." XD

      As to the use (misuse?) of "stock phrases" like "beg the question", I assume that some people use those phrases idiomatically (i.e., no literal meaning intended) because they heard someone else they thought worthy of emulating doing so. Because of this, they don't consider if the literal phrase makes sense ("How do I do... what?").

      In the specific (and hilariously controversial*) case of "beg the question", it's possible to torture a nearly-sensible literal meaning out of the phrase ("This begs the question" == "This begs someone to ask the question"), so the correct use derived from the original Latin phrase (and only sensible in light of Latin's vocabulary and grammar) will die out within a couple of generations, except in philosophical specialist material.

      *Case in point

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    11. Re:Yes by alanebro · · Score: 1

      "Begs the question" isn't meaningless filler, it's used incorrectly. http://begthequestion.info/

    12. Re:Yes by PCM2 · · Score: 4, Funny

      In ye olden days of 5 digit /. UIDs, that was "Ford Prefect" from HHGTTG.

      And in ye olden dayes of 4 digit /. UIDs, it was the captain of your local Praetorian guard unit.

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    13. Re:Yes by RMingin · · Score: 1

      I was right there with you for the Prefect thing. The like, paragraph, with all the like, likes? Drove me nuts. Had to skim it.

      --
      The preceding comment is my own, and in no way construes an opinon of the Emperor of Mankind.
    14. Re:Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Always ?

      I doubt you always did. Actually, I took some skills practice courses at sylvan when I was a kid, and I remember them well enough to know that I didnt always read like I do now.

      Actually I was bad enought that I was still sounding words out with my throat muscles. Not audible, but once you realize you are doing it, and practoice stopping... that is...if you are... it can really speed up reading.

      Now, I definitely read by word shape. In fact, I only recently realized that I dont focus sharply enough on terminal text, which I keep very small, to make out individual letters. I still can, but it takes half a second to do it.

    15. Re:Yes by ScottyLad · · Score: 1

      In ye olden days of 5 digit /. UIDs, that was "Ford Prefect" from HHGTTG.

      And in ye olden dayes of 4 digit /. UIDs, it was the captain of your local Praetorian guard unit.

      In ye days of antiquity, before even single digit /. UIDs, my parents actually used to drive a Ford Prefect. Well sometimes they drove it - the rest of the time they had someone tow it.

      --
      Philosopher (n) - a wise person who is calm and rational; someone who lives a life of reason with equanimity
    16. Re:Yes by Myria · · Score: 4, Interesting

      And another thing: English is not my native language and I know a lot of English words I have never heard. Yet I can read them no problem. Another fact in favor of the theory in the article.

      I am a native speaker and I've learned many words in writing before I learned them in speech. As a result, some of my pronunciations are nonstandard. I pronounce "comparable" as if it were "compare" + "able", even though the standard way is irregular, "comp" + "arable". I tried to pronounce these words from how they were written before I'd heard them.

      --
      "Screw Sun, cross-platform will never work. Let's move on and steal the Java language." - Visual J++ Product Manager
    17. Re:Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I always suspected that I read like that. I only have to spell words I don't know, ..."

      That's why I hate the Grammar-challenged morons so deeply, all their mistakes are hurting my reading flow and interrupt the input process. They don't care because they read letter by letter and wouldn't recognize a complete word even if their life depended on it.

    18. Re:Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Easy Proof

      Which is harder to read:

      This first sentence which is typed correctly and is correctly formatted...

      oR thIS SeConD seNTeNcE wHiCh yOU PrObaBLy doNT reCOgNiZe thE ShaPe oF?

      Thanks to annoying people on facebook, I'm sure we all already knew this.

      How about the different fonts? Would that impact speed of reading?

    19. Re:Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ouch -- please don't do that again. It hurts a lot.

    20. Re:Yes by airfoobar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's not a very good proof, I don't think. By reading the first and last couple of characters of each word and measuring their relative lengths, I seem to read that without any trouble at all. A better test would be to remove the whitespace:

      oRthISSeConDseNTeNcEwHiChyOUPrObaBLydoNTreCOgNiZethEShaPeoF?

      Or even to insert wrong spacing:
      oRth ISSe ConDseNTeNc Ew HiChy OUP rObaBL ydoNTreCO gNiZe thEShaP eoF?

    21. Re:Yes by Baloroth · · Score: 1

      I didn't have any trouble with his sentence either. Even your first one didn't give me too much trouble (although it wasn't exactly fair since I'd just seen it, and it was still problematic). Your second sentence, on the other hand, is completely unreadable to me. I literally have to go letter by letter.

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    22. Re:Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I can read your second sentence as quickly as the first. L3375P34| 7R1P5 /\/\'/ bR41|\| UP |-|0\/\/3\/3R 4|\|D 1 r34LL'/ |-|4\/3 70 \/\/0R| |-|4RD 70 d3(1P|-|3R 17

    23. Re:Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Case and point"
      By the way.

    24. Re:Yes by Zaphod+The+42nd · · Score: 1

      I feel like this is almost a counterargument, actually. If you can re-arrange the letters in a word other than the first and last, and still read it fine (as has been demonstrated), then doesn't that imply the shape ISN'T the key factor? The shape would be changing, but its still just as recognizable. So its something more than just the shape, no?

      --
      GCS/MU/P d- s:- a-- C++++$ UL++ P+ L++ E+ W++ N o K- w--- O M+ V- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5- X R++ tv+ b++ DI++ D++ G+ e++ h-
    25. Re:Yes by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      In the specific (and hilariously controversial*) case of "beg the question", it's possible to torture a nearly-sensible literal meaning out of the phrase ("This begs the question" == "This begs someone to ask the question"), so the correct use derived from the original Latin phrase (and only sensible in light of Latin's vocabulary and grammar) will die out within a couple of generations, except in philosophical specialist material.

      The "correct" version in intransitive and the "incorrect" version is transitive, and since not only can the "incorrect" version be rationalized in terms of the ordinary English meaning of the component words, but also the "correct" version can also be rationalized as a special case of the "incorrect" version. (Essentially, the "correct" version can be looked at as the case of the "incorrect" version where the "question" in issue is the question already under discussion, not some other question.)

      As a result, I doubt the "correct" version will die out, it will survive as the intransitive form along with the "incorrect" version as the transitive form, and both will continue to be clear and unambiguous in use, and the whole hilarious etymology will be obscure to most people.

    26. Re:Yes by arcsimm · · Score: 5, Funny

      I am ashamed of how quickly I read that.

    27. Re:Yes by misosoup7 · · Score: 4, Informative

      And another thing: English is not my native language and I know a lot of English words I have never heard. Yet I can read them no problem. Another fact in favor of the theory in the article.

      I am a native speaker and I've learned many words in writing before I learned them in speech. As a result, some of my pronunciations are nonstandard. I pronounce "comparable" as if it were "compare" + "able", even though the standard way is irregular, "comp" + "arable". I tried to pronounce these words from how they were written before I'd heard them.

      I don't know why this is even up for debate. If you look at any ideogram languages, you can't just sound out each word. Especially Chinese, where there are character that sound the same but have different characters. Or even the same character can be read differently depending on context. You definitely memorized the shape. The article is definitely right that we must be storing a visual dictionary of sorts. If we had to sound out each word, then ideogram languages would have never been invented, too inefficient.

      But this also doesn't mean that you don't also associate shapes to sounds. The reason you pronounce it like "compare" + "able" is because you associated the shape "compare" to its sound and "able" to its sound. When put together, it would come out as "compare" + "able". This doesn't prove that you sound out the words as you see them. However, English is a language that runs on syllables, and "compare" is a multiple syllable word, so it gets broken up in the official pronunciation of the word comparable.

    28. Re:Yes by Old+Wolf · · Score: 1

      Same here. It's embarrassing in a way, but it really shows that you read a lot more than you talk, which is commendable.
      I said "panache" as "pan" + "ache" for years

    29. Re:Yes by Old+Wolf · · Score: 1

      you seem to be using '|' for 'k' , what's that about? Or is slashdot's genius editor stripping something out.

    30. Re:Yes by LWATCDR · · Score: 2

      Funny but I could have told them this decades ago. I have a learning disability but can read very well as long as I don't have to read out loud. I also have a terrible time reading anything in all upper case.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    31. Re:Yes by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Yup, when I learned to read, I skipped the "sound out" phase. The problem with that is spelling is impossible when you spell "cat" as "cat" not "c", "a", "t". I can't find the "cat" key on my keyboard. Maybe I'd have been better off being born in China. One sound per word, one image per word, and no spelling tests, just vocabulary tests, and my vocabulary is good, even if I can't sound out words well.

    32. Re:Yes by AK+Marc · · Score: 0

      It also means you don't know or care about etymology.

    33. Re:Yes by PCM2 · · Score: 1

      You may not be aware that the Prefect was a British Ford car, and we never really had 'em in the States. (They apparently sold a few, but not many. More in Canada.) Thus, most American HHGTTG fans had to have that joke explained to them. "Oh, it's a type of car? OK." But we've never seen one and we don't intuitively know what type of car it might be. I always assumed it was some kind of big boat, like a Ford Galaxie. (I know now that it's not. Thanks, Internet!)

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    34. Re:Yes by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      If you look at any ideogram languages, you can't just sound out each word. Especially Chinese, where there are character that sound the same but have different characters. Or even the same character can be read differently depending on context.

      Bai is different meanings based on context (white, old, in vain), but I've not heard of the characters changing sound based on context (even if the meaning changes based on context). You can sound out every word in an ideogrammatic language. They map to pronunciations that are unambiguous, even if the pronunciations don't map back to unique characters.

    35. Re:Yes by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      E.g., you don't see people mistake "they're" for "their",

      You aren't looking hard enough. People make that mistake all the time.

      (I don't "look for it" either, but these types of mistakes just jump out at me when reading.)

    36. Re:Yes by Thing+1 · · Score: 2

      You seem pleasant to be around.

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    37. Re:Yes by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      I am a native speaker and I've learned many words in writing before I learned them in speech. As a result, some of my pronunciations are nonstandard. I pronounce "comparable" as if it were "compare" + "able", even though the standard way is irregular, "comp" + "arable". I tried to pronounce these words from how they were written before I'd heard them.

      Native speaker here, as well. I recall when I was 5 or 6, I had this box of crayons, with one color Magenta. I pronounced it "magneto" (perhaps I had been exposed to the X-Men at this early age? I don't think so, but it's possible I heard something in school etc), and I distinctly recall my father's excellent advice: "Son, you can call it that if you like, but nobody is going to understand you."

      Even more amusing is he called me out, a few months ago, for pronouncing "detritus" wrong (det'-ri-tus; he said it is de-'try-tus, which the dictionary agrees with).

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    38. Re:Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... How this is supposed a discovery of any sort, that's a mystery for me. Almost any model of orthography recognition from the 80' is based on numerous studies and evidences that demonstrate that word recognition goes two ways (and even speech perception, which is far more important): if you have the visual memory of the string you immediately match it and recognize it, if not you parse each word one at the time. No need to say that with the development and the explosion in popularity of data driven models, the two steps are thought of as being concurrent and computed in parallel.
      The problem then became how to abstract a single instance of the string (or of the speech event) to reinforce the either recognize or reinforce the representation of that word. Also, is each word represented as one entry or maybe some word pairs (such as high frequency collocations) are stored altogether? And what about morphemes? In English (or Chinese) this might be a trivial question, but in morphologically rich languages such as those of the Ugro-Finnic family it is unlikely (although possible) that any single root morpheme (say a word) is stored with every possible morphological affix it may occur with (with the exception of morphological derivation, that may be regarded as a different process.)

    39. Re:Yes by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      Not so much, actually.

    40. Re:Yes by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      Got it in one. I'm sure he was actually using "|<"

    41. Re:Yes by mdf356 · · Score: 1

      I saw a Star Trek classic VHS tape as a kid (when VCRs will still kinda new) and puzzled over the word "annihilate" for a while before deciding it must be pronounced "annie-hi-late".

      --
      Terrorist, bomb, al Qaeda, nuclear, yellowcake, kill, assassinate. Carnivore is dead... long live Echelon.
    42. Re:Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm a programmer - the second is easier to read ;)

    43. Re:Yes by Livius · · Score: 1

      The old meaning of 'beg' is ask - what's so idiomatic about it?

      "Beg the question" has two perfectly legitimate meanings: something with no explanatory merit that simply re-asks the same question, or something with no explanatory merit that immediately implies asking a new question.

    44. Re:Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All it shows is that you used your existing knowledge of phonemes to predict what words would sound like phonetically, but that doesn't really contribute to either hypothesis AAICT.

    45. Re:Yes by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 1

      "Case and point" By the way.

      That's some kind of tennis-based legal term?

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
    46. Re:Yes by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      No, that just implies our visual pattern-matchers don't require a perfect match. (Or possibly a prefect match.)

      However, I'm a little baffled as to how this was news. Of course we recognized words by shape. (Or possibly by snape. Strangely, that doesn't work, probably because of the top of the h.) How else would we recognize them?

      The question is really 'How much do we recognize each individual letter' vs 'How much do we recognize the entire word', and I thought it was somewhat already accepted that the faster you read, the more you 'grouped'.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    47. Re:Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Bao2" for "thin" can be pronounced "Bo2" for a slightly different meaning, and in Cantonese there is even an other "Bik1" as opposed to "Bok6" (thin) for the meaning "approaching closely", mostly used in classical Chinese. A number of characters sound different when used in names.

    48. Re:Yes by itsdapead · · Score: 1

      In ye olden days of 5 digit /. UIDs, that was "Ford Prefect" from HHGTTG.

      Thinking that transistors were made of either silicon or geranium didn't stop me reading science books as a kid.

      --
      In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
    49. Re:Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Correcting people's usage is the epitamy of hoodspa.

    50. Re:Yes by MisterSquid · · Score: 1

      Why do so many nerd readers not consult dictionaries (and their included pronunciation keys) when reading and encountering new words? Dictionaries are the Google of hard copy books (or at least dictionaries were before Google existed).

      I never understood the phenomenon of poorly spoken literates. A few pronunciation errors are understandable and to be expected, but more than two or three percent of your spoken vocabulary is mispronounced, you reveal a disregard for accuracy and precision regarding language, especially given how widely available reasonably good dictionaries have been in the last 100 years.

      --
      blog
    51. Re:Yes by tgv · · Score: 1

      You've just given the argument for the opposite case. People do mistake "their" for "they're" and "too", "two" and "to" as well. That's not because they look alike. Hell, people mistake accept and except, where even the initial two characters differ.

    52. Re:Yes by inhuman_4 · · Score: 1

      I have a similar problem. I know lots of words I cannot pronounce correctly. Recently I had a problem with "caveat" (kA-vat? kav-eat? kAv-at? kav-E-at?). English is especially silly since we steal so many foreign words, I often wonder if German/French/Spanish is more logical.

    53. Re:Yes by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      Bai is different meanings based on context (white, old, in vain), but I've not heard of the characters changing sound based on context

      How much Chinese have you studied? There are some very common characters that have multiple pronunciations. For instance the character pronounced "de" in "Wo shuo zhongwen shuo de bu cuo" is the same as the character pronounced "dei" which means "need to". Then there is the "jiao" in "shui jiao" is the same character as "jue" in "jue de" and "yue" in "yin yue" is the same characters as "le" in "kuai le". There are more, but those are just the common ones off the top of my head.

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    54. Re:Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Holy hell!
      Up until now (I'm currently reading the series!)

      I was certain it was Ford Perfect, damn!

    55. Re:Yes by JosKarith · · Score: 1

      I can add some evidence to this. A few years ago I suffered some brain damage - not horrific but enough to shave about 20 points off my IQ. Before that I could read at about 2-3 times the speed i can now - I was able to flash into my mind's eye an image of a page and then parse it while I was turning the page. Since the injury I have to scan the text. Numbers are the same - I could pretty much instantly memorise a 12 digit number and recite it back. Now if I want it to stay more than a few moments I have to sub-vocallise it - something about running it through my speech centers helps my brain keep the information.
      OTOH I'm a lot more socially functional since - I can actually enjoy people's company rather than constantly analysing everything they do.

      --
      'Don't worry' said the trees when they saw the axe coming, 'The handle is one of us.'
    56. Re:Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I do that with programming terms, since I read them long before hearing people talk about them: I pronounce "Goto" more like grotto without the r, than as "go to". Also, I'd never seen a dollar sign when I first saw code, so I pronounce "$" as "s" --- a habit I've been trying to break for years :D

    57. Re:Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'm still doing pretty great at these, if I do say so myself.

      Methinks readers evolve a much more complex neural net than just one that does syllable and shape recognition. Probably, there are lots of parallel recognition engines involved: letters, word shape, syllables, syllable combinations/patterns, grammar patterns between words, higher level logic looking for actual meaning (explaining why you can entirely misread a sentence to mean something else), and so on.

    58. Re:Yes by Random+Walk · · Score: 1

      Try Czech. Where words are written in phonetic spelling, but no foreigner will ever manage to learn the pronounciation :)

    59. Re:Yes by Man+Eating+Duck · · Score: 1

      Easy Proof

      Which is harder to read:

      This first sentence which is typed correctly and is correctly formatted...

      oR thIS SeConD seNTeNcE wHiCh yOU PrObaBLy doNT reCOgNiZe thE ShaPe oF?

      Also, try to read well-formed text upside-down. I read a lot, and find that individual word recognition works almost as well. What slows me down is mainly that I can no longer take in several words at a glance, but also that reading right-to-left is... unfamiliar, to say the least :)

      The brain/vision system is fascinating indeed.

      --
      Are you a grammar Nazi? I'm trying to improve my English; please correct my errors! :)
    60. Re:Yes by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Half words redundant, especially particles. Omit them still understandable. Japanese more compact.

      I have a theory about this. In English people only half listen, they are basically just waiting for their turn to speak. As such we add lots of filler to give our minds more time to think up what to say next without any gaps in speech that would allow the other person to jump in. I first noticed this talking to Japanese people who wait for you to finish rather than starting to talk the moment your lips stop moving, which makes it a lot easier for non-native speakers like me. I could be way off but of course.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    61. Re:Yes by goarilla · · Score: 1

      You forget the book that teaches you phonetic symbols and how to pronounce them based on common words in your native tongue.
      That can go very wrong if you're living in a very strong dialect region.

    62. Re:Yes by _0xd0ad · · Score: 1

      By his second sentence I knew what it said already and that undoubtedly influenced my ability to read it.

    63. Re:Yes by goarilla · · Score: 1

      Is it In-tie-ger or in-te-ger ?
      Is it Die-caid or De-cad?
      I've heard both of them by prominent native speakers.

    64. Re:Yes by ballpoint · · Score: 1

      No, it's a lawyer firm looking for more partners.

      --
      Flourescent (adj): smelling like ground wheat.
    65. Re:Yes by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      It's also why certain words are constantly spelt incorrectly or mistaken for one another. Not only are the sounds of the variations similar, and sometimes the meaning, but so are the shapes. E.g., you don't see people mistake "they're" for "their", but you see people mistake "there" for "their" and vice versa all the time. Or for that matter, "then" and "than", "effect" and "affect". And at least for myself, the first few times I saw the word "prefect" in Harry Potter, I thought it said "perfect" and kept wondering why they were so arrogant.

      No, a lot of people (if slashdot is anything to go by) just don't really know the difference between there and their or then and than or affect and effect.

      Besides, the shapes of these words aren't that similar anyway, especially ones like affect and effect that begin with different letters.

      Finally, it would actually be very difficult to mistake prefect and perfect in context, as one is a noun and the other an adjective. The phrase "a perfect appeared from behind the door and nabbed me" doesn't make any sense.

      I am not convinced by this idea at all.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    66. Re:Yes by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I don't know why this is even up for debate. If you look at any ideogram languages, you can't just sound out each word.

      So how does that tell us anything about English then?

      But this also doesn't mean that you don't also associate shapes to sounds. The reason you pronounce it like "compare" + "able" is because you associated the shape "compare" to its sound and "able" to its sound. When put together, it would come out as "compare" + "able". This doesn't prove that you sound out the words as you see them. However, English is a language that runs on syllables, and "compare" is a multiple syllable word, so it gets broken up in the official pronunciation of the word comparable.

      If you have never seen the word comparable before, and have never heard it spoken, obviously you have to make an attempt at guessing what it sounds like. As there are few hanrd and fast rules in English, the only answer is to look it up in a phonetic dictionary and/or ask a fluent English speaker.

      If you don't check it, every time in future you see the word comparable you will recognise it and what it means but will just sound odd if you read it out loud that way to someone.

      None of this proves that you recognise the word as a unique little picture the same way you would an ideogram.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    67. Re:Yes by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      And this especially applies to a language like English. Most other European languages are pretty much speak as you spell, certainly once you know the basic letter sounds, French, German, Spanish, Latin and so on are almost impossible to mispronounce. I'm not a linguist so don't know about other language groups.

      But English is often impossible to read out loud accurately unless you can look up the accepted pronunciation of a new word. The notorious bough/rough/through/trough/ought minefield for non native speakers is proof of that.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    68. Re:Yes by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I have a similar problem. I know lots of words I cannot pronounce correctly. Recently I had a problem with "caveat" (kA-vat? kav-eat? kAv-at? kav-E-at?). English is especially silly since we steal so many foreign words, I often wonder if German/French/Spanish is more logical.

      Er, "caveat" is directly from Latin. It is pronounced KA-vee-at with the stress on the first syllable. But any dictionary would tell you that, so as someone said above, why not use one if you're learning a language? I certainly had to.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    69. Re:Yes by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      As to the use (misuse?) of "stock phrases" like "beg the question", I assume that some people use those phrases idiomatically (i.e., no literal meaning intended)

      That is not what "idomatic" means.

      The idiomatic phrases "he bought the farm" or "he kicked the bucket" mean very specifically that someone died. To use "beg the question" to mean "makes you ask another question in further explanation" is just an error.

      To try to defend misuse of "begs the question" on the grounds that it sort of means something similar to how people intend reminds me of all the slashdot retards who won't admit that "I could care less" is simply wrong and meaningless compared with "I couldn't care less"..

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    70. Re:Yes by inhuman_4 · · Score: 1

      Er, "caveat" is directly from Latin. It is pronounced KA-vee-at with the stress on the first syllable. But any dictionary would tell you that, so as someone said above, why not use one if you're learning a language? I certainly had to.

      The thing is I am a native speaker. I know what caveat means, and when writing I have used it many times, but the first time I tried to use it when speaking I stumbled.

      People who do lots of reading, especially older texts, are exposed to words that are never spoken in everyday use. The meaning of the word is obvious from the context so you never have to look it up. So you end up knowing words without ever having heard them spoken, and so you don't know the correct pronunciation. I eventually did look it up in a dictionary but at the time I felt like I had a seg fault.

    71. Re:Yes by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      The question is really 'How much do we recognize each individual letter' vs 'How much do we recognize the entire word', and I thought it was somewhat already accepted that the faster you read, the more you 'grouped'.

      There is a huge difference between being able to recognise a word without having to spell out each letter (which is certainly essential for speed reading), and recognising it in the same way we recognize a photograph of someone we know.

      Take a tongue twister like "She sells seashells by the seashore: the shells she sells are surely seashells,so if she sells shells by the seashore, I'm sure she sells seashore shells" It's hard even to read to yourself quickly (ignoring reading out loud)., But shouldn't it be as easy to read as a normal looking sentence if it's just a series of pictures?

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    72. Re:Yes by cyberchondriac · · Score: 1

      "Begs the question" doesn't really bother me, if used sparingly, I think in the right circumstance it makes sense to say, but what does bug me (besides ubiquitous "likes") are statements that are always prefaced with, "..in terms of - ". People (ab)use that to sound more authoritative.

      --

      Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
    73. Re:Yes by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I was able to flash into my mind's eye an image of a page and then parse it while I was turning the page.

      But that's not how "normal" fast readers actually read. I'm a fairly quick reader and can read a page in a few seconds but my eyes are definitely travelling across and down the page, not just taking an instantaneous snapshot. You are getting into Derren Brown territory there.

      PS I'm glad to hear that you ended up with something positive out of the damage.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    74. Re:Yes by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      It is certainly slower reading the second sentence, but surely if we read by processing pictures it would in fact be impossible to read?

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    75. Re:Yes by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1

      My visual cortex knows that "begs the question" is almost certainly meaningless filler and its application 99.9% of the time has no relation to its actual meaning, so I do not process/see it.

      Begs the question is one of the most misused, abused and misunderstood phrases in English today. This phrase is a literal translation of the Latin phrase "petitio principii". It literally means the "answer" is begging the "question" to be let off the hook. The answer is admitting that it is insufficient to prove what has to be proved. For example if the question is "Why is there overpopulation?" and the answer is "Because there are too many people", it is a circular argument, a syllogism, and the answer has to come begging the question to be excused so that it can go away and hide its face in shame.

      But so many English speakers now a days use the phrase to really mean, "raises the question".

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    76. Re:Yes by The+Askylist · · Score: 1

      Since they forced me to learn Latin at school back in the 1970s, may I just point out that "Ka-vay-at" is the more usual pronunciation? Just sayin', like...

    77. Re:Yes by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

      The thing is I am a native speaker. I know what caveat means

      You're a native Latin speaker? My complements on being so ... alive.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    78. Re:Yes by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      One, a syllogism isn't a circular argument. Two, perhaps nowadays some people do indeed write 'now a days' as three words - but they're wrong.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    79. Re:Yes by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      A few years ago I suffered some brain damage - not horrific but enough to shave about 20 points off my IQ. [...] OTOH I'm a lot more socially functional since - I can actually enjoy people's company rather than constantly analysing everything they do.

      Are you sure you didn't just discover beer?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    80. Re:Yes by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      I read quite fast, not through any of those speed-reading courses or anything, I just always have. I can read upside down faster than most people can the right way up.

      But it doesn't work for numbers, or when the orientation of the letters is different to the orientation of the word, e.g. like you see on a

      H
      o
      t
      e
      l

      s
      i
      g
      n

      Another odd thing - my boss years back was dyslexic, and she could read equally well (i.e. no worse) upside down.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    81. Re:Yes by Reapy · · Score: 1

      I actually read lvier nda onions as though lvier nda was some weird brand of onion I had never heard of before. I think also I mistook the l as an I, and yes, this font makes the two letters i and L look the same, nice. Iveir nda onions, from idaho ;)

    82. Re:Yes by _0xd0ad · · Score: 1

      Wow, that was weird. As soon as I came to "lvier nda" I completely restarted under the assumption that you'd intentionally scrambled the letters of the words around. I didn't notice that "lvier" and "nda" were the only misspelled words in the whole thing until I'd read the entire comment. And strangely enough, it made the entire thing somewhat difficult to read.

    83. Re:Yes by NitroWolf · · Score: 1

      I am a native speaker and I've learned many words in writing before I learned them in speech. As a result, some of my pronunciations are nonstandard. I pronounce "comparable" as if it were "compare" + "able", even though the standard way is irregular, "comp" + "arable". I tried to pronounce these words from how they were written before I'd heard them.

      Where are you getting your "standard" pronunciation definition? I've heard both ways equally... though I am assuming you really mean by "comp" + "arable" as "comp" + "rable" with the emphasis on the second syllable instead of the first. The two common pronunciations of that word are as you describe the first, and the second pronunciation completely or nearly so drop the first "a" sound by extending out the "r" sound or it being covered up by the emphasis on the second syllable instead of the first. The "ar" in "arable" being overshadowed by the emphasis on "a" extending out the "r."

    84. Re:Yes by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1

      I was under the (mistaken) impression that syllogism is a generic term for a flawed argument, and the circular argument is a specific variety of it. Also did not know nowadays is a single word. Thanks for the corrections.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    85. Re:Yes by misosoup7 · · Score: 1

      You're missing the point.

      The fact that the non-native reader tries to read it as compare+able shows that sounds are associated with the entire word as opposed to individual letters the same way as an ideogram would.

    86. Re:Yes by misosoup7 · · Score: 1

      If you don't check it, every time in future you see the word comparable you will recognise it and what it means but will just sound odd if you read it out loud that way to someone.

      This just proves my point, there is an additional mapping from the entire word "compare" to the sound for it and "able" to the sound for it. When you see it together you'll pronounce it as it were two separate words, which is odd. And this doesn't contradict the fact that you have a visual storage for initially recognizing the words. I guess I'm just saying you don't go letter by letter and sound out the word. Because if people did they'd pronounce comparable correctly every time. Comparable has no special tricks, and follows all the rules of English pronunciation (at least in American English).

  3. spelling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is why we are bugged by bad spelling.

    1. Re:spelling by ackthpt · · Score: 1

      This is why we are bugged by bad spelling.

      And why breaking up your writing into paragraphs is a good idea, as a wall of text is immediately daunting by the shape recognition of 10+ lines of words without a gap.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  4. Interesting... by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Interesting- I read about two or three times as fast as my wife and we've talked abou this before.
    (frustrating when trying to read an e-mail together on the same PC at the same time).

    She does sound out words in her head- I don't- I just tend to zip over them. There again- speed has its consequences- she tends to remember what she read better than I do.

    I'll be reading a book and then realise I've been on auto-pilot for the last 3 pages and actually have no recollection of what I just read.

    --
    "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    1. Re:Interesting... by pairo · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'll be reading a book and then realise I've been on auto-pilot for the last 3 pages and actually have no recollection of what I just read.

      That happens to me too, but what makes it especially annoying is that when I re-read, I recognize it and slowly start remembering what I read.

    2. Re:Interesting... by Ichijo · · Score: 2

      I read about two or three times as fast as my wife... She does sound out words in her head- I don't- I just tend to zip over them.

      Does she convert a written word into sounds, letter by letter and syllable by syllable, or does her brain have a direct word-shape-to-sound lookup table?

      --
      Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
    3. Re:Interesting... by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      I don't know exactly how it sounds in her head or how her brain works- but, yes, she says she sounds out words in her head as she reads.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    4. Re:Interesting... by Talderas · · Score: 1

      This is how I read things. My biggest problems is when I see a shape of a word I misinterpret it as another word because the two words are similarly shaped.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    5. Re:Interesting... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have a direct word-shape-to-sound lookup table.

    6. Re:Interesting... by vlm · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'll be reading a book and then realise I've been on auto-pilot for the last 3 pages and actually have no recollection of what I just read.

      That happens to me too, but what makes it especially annoying is that when I re-read, I recognize it and slowly start remembering what I read.

      This happens all the time when my wife is talking at me, the buffer space fills up and lag starts hitting, especially if what I'm hearing is boring or repetitive or uninteresting "Why are you wasting all that time on /. blah blah and the garbage needs to be taken out and blah blah blah" and two minutes later I notice she mentioned taking the trash out so I stand up to do it, and she knows why there was a two minute tape delay and she gets more annoyed. Oh well.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    7. Re:Interesting... by Binestar · · Score: 2

      I'll be reading a book and then realise I've been on auto-pilot for the last 3 pages and actually have no recollection of what I just read.

      I find I only do this when I'm tired. It is a good indication that I should put the book down and fall asleep. It actually works rather well, because often my brain isn't ready for sleep when I get in bed, but having this happen while reading I'll know I can fall asleep within a few minutes.

      --
      Do you Gentoo!?
    8. Re:Interesting... by Baloroth · · Score: 2

      I'll be reading a book and then realise I've been on auto-pilot for the last 3 pages and actually have no recollection of what I just read.

      I've done this too, which is why I often tend to read by sounding things out. I'm pretty sure this helps with writing and grammar skills too, since you get not only the meaning but the way the sentence flows and sounds (as anyone who has tried to figure out an improperly written sentence should have noticed). I always sound out sentences when writing.

      On the other hand, I'm pretty sure I'm also mildly dyslexic (not enough to impact me significantly: I think reading a lot when I was young helped overcome any problems I may have had), so this may just be my subconscious way of adjusting for that. Worst was actually playing written music: I'd find myself (quite often) displacing the notes. Spent a good 4-5 weeks playing a song before I realized the first note was a third higher than I had thought.

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    9. Re:Interesting... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      better that it goes into a buffer, at least, and not straight to /dev/null ...

    10. Re:Interesting... by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      Yes, this happens all the time to me too...

      We'll be driving down the road- and I'll start laughing- my wife will ask "what are you laughing at" - and I'll tell her that a sign I just read I initially misread as something dirty.

      It's odd how misread words usually turn out to be something dirty.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    11. Re:Interesting... by Eponymous+Hero · · Score: 0

      this only happens to me when i'm reading while stoned

      --
      insensitive clod overlords obligatory xkcd car analogy russian reversals whoosh pedant fanbois ftfy in 3...2...1..PROFIT
    12. Re:Interesting... by martin-boundary · · Score: 2
      That's because she has twice the input bandwidth you do. Think about it, you just see/recognize the words, but she sees/recognizes them, and also hears them being spoken to her. That's reinforcement using two senses, sight and hearing, against your single sense of sight.

      Her slowness is due to the need to synchronize the simultaneous inputs.

      But she's better off than you, because she can speed up if she decides to read "intelligently". Most sentences and phrases in paragraphs are not essential, and can be skipped with little loss. She can train herself to recognize what's inessential, and deliberately not read it to speed up, or slow down as necessary.

      You however are in a bad position. If you try to sound words out, you'll slow down so much you'll need strong incentives to stick with it. So you're probably stuck in a local optimum whereas she's in reach of a better one.

    13. Re:Interesting... by Ambvai · · Score: 1

      I just drove cross-country and had that same experience, though I blame it on random crud getting stuck on my glasses having not cleaned them after being stuck in a car all day. My favorite? "KY SLIPPERY" next to a bridge. (ICY)

    14. Re:Interesting... by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Fiction does weird things. If I read an epic that spans several months, in fifteen minutes' time I'm snapping out of an altered state of consciousness where several months have passed. My memory is an interpret-and-rewrite model, where the consequences of an instruction are the permanent storage--so if I read something, my memory is of what the thing is rather than of reading it. I don't recall ever reading several of the Thomas Covenant books, but I recall being there...

      Things like The Gap Cycle more stand out because of how they're told: you're immersed in character thought rather than third person perspective. Rather than a rather challenging linguistic rendition of events, each chapter is told from the perspective of a certain character--often overlapping events, or backtracking to fill details of what just happened (because something happened over there, and it ended in what just ended the last chapter, but let's find out why this guy is suddenly in control of this weapon and using it against us!). Things like Morn Hyland, "Jesus, was he [...]? ... Yes. Angus was capable of that." It's not presented as character thought, but rather just written as part of the text--but the text is from the character's POV, it carries the character's sentiment, and sometimes odd character thoughts are written in without bothering to note that this is a thought the character is having.

      Of course, even that kind of sentiment belies a reason for textual memorization: you're being steeped in the character's thoughts and feelings; these happen to be thoughts that you had, you remember thinking that. I have no idea what happened before that passage--there was [...] and [...] and some stuff got [...] and then [...] but Angus [...], sure, but I don't recall how much text was devoted to any of that, much less what it may have consisted of. I just remember shit got real.

      I have to recommend The Gap Cycle, by the way. Don't ask on genre, or subject. It is an amazing book, period; it fails to please in its genre if that's what you care about, because it's too busy delivering a competently-written story. Also the first book-and-a-half (book one is short, because it inflicts mental damage--it has to or your suspension of disbelief wouldn't suffice to accept the main character's thoughts and actions as realistic) is a challenge in patience, as the stage must be set before the actors can play. A lot of banal actions, meeting the cast, boring day to day activities.

      Still, after the setup, the story continues to grow more and more interesting. This never ends; the final pages leading out are conclusive, yet they continue to be epic right into the final moments, with tension hanging on every word of every sentence right to the end. The situations get immensely complex, and Donaldson makes no move to allow small but crucial mistakes--every breath is important, every fraction of a second spent thinking, every delay, every reaction. We will not accept that a rational person in such situation may decide to question or to not accept these slight missteps; these slight missteps have an impact, and saving throws are very, very lucky and leave those who have been irritated still unimpressed and now more impatient. This is not a plot element; it is reality, it is a lasting result of cause and effect, and not forgotten the moment we move into another scene.

    15. Re:Interesting... by almitydave · · Score: 1

      That's hilarious - when I was younger, my mother was well aware of a similar effect. I'd be focused on some task when she'd ask me a question. Naturally I hadn't payed attention, so I'd immediately reply "huh?", at which point she'd say "replay the tape..." and wait 5 seconds for me to process what she had said and then respond.

      Re the topic, I've been telling people for a long time that I read by word shape. I can scan sentences with long words quite fast, but many small words together really slow me down.

      --
      my, your, his/her/its, our, your, their
      I'm, you're, he's/she's/it's, we're, you're, they're
    16. Re:Interesting... by B1oodAnge1 · · Score: 1

      I was going to post and then I realized you'd literally posted everything I was going to say.
      so...

      same here!

      --
      RUGBYRUGBYRUGBY
    17. Re:Interesting... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I sound out words in my head most of the time. I still recognize the words at a glance, I just can't comprehend what I'm reading without saying the word in my head. Of course, that slows me down. Even with sounding out a word, I still find myself going on auto-pilot as you've described and having to backtrack several pages to figure out what I missed.

      That said, this reminds me of an anecdote from my childhood. We were trained to visualize what we needed to do while sparring/performing a kata. So instead of thinking "parry, step back, cat stance" you'd picture yourself making those motions. I never quite mastered this, I always just went with the feeling I get with each action, sort of like a phantom movement of my limbs.

    18. Re:Interesting... by Braino420 · · Score: 1

      She does sound out words in her head- I don't- I just tend to zip over them. There again- speed has its consequences- she tends to remember what she read better than I do.

      I first realized I did this when in highschool and was forced to read Things Fall Apart. When taking the test I couldn't even spell/pronounce the main character's name. Luckily, I was able to recognize it later on in the test where the name was typed out.

      --
      They call me the wookie man, I guess that's what I am
    19. Re:Interesting... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

      "I'll be reading a book and then realise I've been on auto-pilot for the last 3 pages and actually have no recollection of what I just read."

      I hate to break it to you but if this is the case then you're not actually reading....

    20. Re:Interesting... by Kral_Blbec · · Score: 2

      But is that conscious recollection or subconscious understanding?
      I am also a very fast reader, but often when reading new material I skim through it quickly and later will go back and reference if needed. Those times I do need to reference for more details, I know exactly where it is on the page, but I can't remember exactly what it said. Similarly, I couldn't tell you what I just read, but if you ask a question that was answered in it, I will just *know* the answer without being able to tell you exactly where I read it.
      Example. Long email that says Sallys birthday party will be at 5pm on Saturday. A while after reading if you asked what it was about all i would be able to tell you was that it was about Sally's bithday, and it would take a moment to remember the exact date/time. However, if you asked when Sally's birthday was without mentioning the email, I could tell you without hesitation.
      It makes intellectual debates a pain because I remember everything, but can't remember where from so I can't cite a source. Sorry about the formating. I think the mobile app I'm viewing this through stripped the tags.

    21. Re:Interesting... by SamuraiHoedown · · Score: 1

      I have this problem too, and it was diagnosed as a specific form of dyslexia. I can read very very quickly, but I have an extremely hard time editing my work(and others) because I tend to read things as the correct way rather than the way things are actually written.

    22. Re:Interesting... by almitydave · · Score: 2

      Spent a good 4-5 weeks playing a song before I realized the first note was a third higher than I had thought.

      I've had this happen. Even worse is when I re-learn a piece that I had originally learned years previously, only to discover that for years I had been playing the wrong note, and now the right note sounds wrong!

      It would be interesting to see a study comparing sight-reading in musicians to reading words, because I'm at the point now in music where I see larger shapes (chords, short melodic sequences) at once rather than reading every individual note, and I bet it's the same brain function that processes the glyphs. Furthermore, I use the same part of the brain for speaking as well as playing music: for me it's tightly related to vocal expression, evidenced by the fact that I physically can't speak while playing the piano.

      --
      my, your, his/her/its, our, your, their
      I'm, you're, he's/she's/it's, we're, you're, they're
    23. Re:Interesting... by GNious · · Score: 1

      I was reading mails/posts from friends, that would spell poorly or have bad grammar, and my mind would auto-correct so I could read at near full-speed - problem is that it would "auto-correct" words/sentences that are correct, but less-common.

      Side-note: a decade ago, in high-school, we were taught that we were recognizing shapes of words, not reading letters, and a few decades ago the same argument was used for changing road signs from all-capital to mixed-case signs for faster reading.

    24. Re:Interesting... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sounds retarded bro

    25. Re:Interesting... by Bysshe · · Score: 1

      Very true. I've already forgotten what you just said.

      --
      Read what I mean, not what I wrote.
    26. Re:Interesting... by martin-boundary · · Score: 2

      sounds retarded bro

      Good! You're making an effort to use more than just your eyes...

    27. Re:Interesting... by MachDelta · · Score: 5, Funny

      One thing my girlfriend does that annoys the absolute piss out of me is ask me questions when i'm deep in thought writing an essay or coding. I swear this is my brain at those moments:

      Active process: writeProgram("Project.cpp")
      HARDWARE INTERRUPT: "Honey do you think I should curl my hair or straighten it for tomorrow?"
      caching audio file...
      Abort module(writeProgram);
      exiting to OS...
      exiting...
      loading Awareness.bat
      paging filesystem
      loading recognition:speech(5849932 bytes)
      loading calendar->tomorrow (4355 bytes)
      loading, hair (34382 bytes)
      loading, woman (0? bytes)
      accessing speech drivers
      Speak: "Ah..bu..wha..."
      IRQ conflict detected!
      resolving conflict
      emptying audio cache
      reloading speech driver...
      Ready.
      WARNING: audio recording length: 0 bytes
      Speak: "Um... yes?" ...
      "Why do you never listen to what I say!??"

    28. Re:Interesting... by griffo · · Score: 1

      If I try to sound out the words my reading speed drops dramatically. Full-speed, I'm watching the movie. Which tends to make watching a movie based upon a book I've read hairraising. Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings turned out OK, as did Bladerunner. If you've already seen the movie as the writer intended it, it's a hell of a job to reinterpret that.

      Re: remembering: that's because you are trying to remember the word. Try remembering what you just saw/heard/felt/experienced with your minds eye, I think you will recall a lot more!

    29. Re:Interesting... by nickersonm · · Score: 1

      I thought this was common knowledge: fast readers don't recognize words by phonemes, but whole, and don't process them verbally. The one time I mentioned it to another fast reader, he agreed.

      One downside of this is that I often don't know the correct pronunciation, or possibly even the correct spelling, of words which I've only encountered while reading - I only recognize the word entire when I read it. Most common with names in fiction: I'll have no idea what a name is, but merely recognize it as a consistent label.

    30. Re:Interesting... by Xiver · · Score: 2

      I have similar problems when someone comes into my office and starts asking me questions when I'm in a deep coding session. I see their lips moving and I hear sounds coming out, but it is as if they are speaking a foreign language. I usually have to push my chair back, shake my head, and ask them to repeat themselves.

      --
      10: PRINT "Everything old is new again."
      20: GOTO 10
    31. Re:Interesting... by 6Yankee · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Colleague came into my office the other day, just as I was disappearing up the arses of two databases at once (one Postgres, one SQL Server). She asked me if I wanted to go for coffee. Apparently, it took well over a minute to get anything approaching a coherent answer, and the answer was "You'd better go. If you wait until I can answer that question your break will be over." I barely even remember it, other than the unpleasant sensation of trying to drag myself out of there one layer of mess at a time. First time that's ever happened, hope it's the last.

    32. Re:Interesting... by Baloroth · · Score: 1

      Out of curiosity, have you tried singing while playing? Seems like many musicians can do that just fine, and I know the singing part of the brain is actually wired separately from the speaking part (some people who can't speak due to a brain problem can still sing or speak in poetry).

      I certainly can't speak while playing, but then I play trombone and violin, so that probably is unrelated to brain usage patterns.

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    33. Re:Interesting... by hedwards · · Score: 1

      I'm not really sure why this is news, it's been known for many years that speed readers were recognizing words visually without having to sound them out.

      As for your reading, that's precisely the problem that speed readers have, they might be taking it in quickly, but they aren't necessarily going to retain any of it. I personally make a point of mentally vocalizing the words so that I retain most of the materia.

    34. Re:Interesting... by gknoy · · Score: 1

      Might it help if you were to interrogate databases through alternate means than their arses? :D

    35. Re:Interesting... by Verteiron · · Score: 1

      I read this way as well, and I've noticed I frequently miss homophonic puns. F'rinstance, Kingdom of Loathing has an area known as the Orc Chasm. I mean, they don't get any more obvious, but it wasn't until I was actually halfway through telling someone else about it that I realized what I had just said.

      You can imagine my amusement when I started reading Terry Pratchett books to an audience and stumbled over dozens of puns I'd missed entirely on my own read-throughs precisely because I don't have a "reading voice" in my head.

      --
      End of lesson. You may press the button.
    36. Re:Interesting... by bughunter · · Score: 1

      That was just fscking awesome. I'm canceling mods done on this page just to reply and give you a (Score:6, Funny) since you're already maxed.

      Your post needs to be preserved for posterity.

      And forwarded to my wife.

      (Who will just ask, "Do I sound like that to you?")

      --
      I can see the fnords!
    37. Re:Interesting... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's also why you can't proof-read your own copy. You have to get someone else to read if for you, or it will contain mistakes. Your copy is made up of things you thought about before you wrote it, as well as things you think up while you're writing it. The final output is a combination of both, which is actually neither. When you try to proof it yourself, you see what you think you wrote, not what you actually wrote. The pattern-recognition thing makes you 'see' what isn't quite there. More revisions make the problem worse. Nevertheless, it's quite amazing the number of people who don't understand how their own brain works, and who think they can proof-read their own work.

    38. Re:Interesting... by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      My memory is an interpret-and-rewrite model, where the consequences of an instruction are the permanent storage--so if I read something, my memory is of what the thing is rather than of reading it.

      Most people's memories work that way, the problem being they believe their memories such that humans are horrible witnesses. The least reliable testimony allowed in court is eye witness testimony. The sad part is that the testimony is so completely believed by the speaker that it will sway juries based on a false memory. And no one wants to admit that their memory is horribly flawed, so there isn't now and will never be a move to officially recognize the limitations of humans as witnesses.

    39. Re:Interesting... by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      The 'misreading things as saying what you intended them to say' isn't dyslexia. Everyone does that. If you wrote a 'the', you'll often read it as a 'the', even if it's actually a 'teh'. That's because our brain over-optimizes and doesn't bother reading things when it already knows what they say.

      Perhaps you do it more than others...but that's not dyslexia, which is an inability to convert words into meanings. (If anything, you're converting them a bit too easy.)

      And ease of reading, and poor writing, isn't dyslexia, which is a reading disorder. Actually, some forms of dyslexia can include hearing, but all forms of it are an inability to translate words to meanings.

      What you have sounds like dysgraphia, which is the inverse of dyslexia and is an inability to turn meanings into words. (And is a lot poorer understood and diagnosed.)

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    40. Re:Interesting... by donscarletti · · Score: 1

      My girlfriend reads English almost as quickly as I do, which is incredible since I am a fast reader by native standards and have been reading English for hours a day since I was 4 and she did it pretty much during highschool English lessons and researching accademic foreign papers for her masters.

      I would it put it down to her going to school in China and never having a chance to have her brain addled by phonics. Phonics, as we all know, is a plot to make sure students can not reach a functional level of literacy before they are old enough to have become an intergrated part of the status quo. I conjecture that the man worked out that it was easier and just as effective as the old system of just writing everything important in Latin.

      --
      When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
    41. Re:Interesting... by 6Yankee · · Score: 2

      It might... Maybe that way, I wouldn't get crap out of them :)

    42. Re:Interesting... by mjwx · · Score: 1

      loading, woman (0? bytes)

      There's your problem.

      The file lacks any kind of header information, doesn't know if it's Arthur or Martha. It should at least contain references AlwaysRight.h, ShortTempered.h and OccasionalSex.h.

      Replace that file with this line:
      PRINTF "whatever you like dear, I'm sure it will look lovely."

      My last GF was Thai, so I could load LBFM.h but had to remember not to load call any of the functions on any entity but the GF to early or a conflict with Knife.h would cause serious damage to my hardware.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    43. Re:Interesting... by bunnytech · · Score: 1

      I suspect we have more than one way of making sense of words: sound/verbal; picture/visual and I would add a third dimension - idea/conceptual. We probably develop a dominant way - the same way we develop dominant ways of learning (through listening, seeing and reading/writing).

      --
      I like to press buttons
    44. Re:Interesting... by Man+Eating+Duck · · Score: 1

      Out of curiosity, have you tried singing while playing? Seems like many musicians can do that just fine, and I know the singing part of the brain is actually wired separately from the speaking part (some people who can't speak due to a brain problem can still sing or speak in poetry).

      From my experience that seems like an innate ability, more or less. I'm not a very accomplished musician. I can sing along while playing (guitar) to a certain extent, but for some songs it's impossible for me due to rhythm or whatever. Nirvana - Come as You Are is one example, Lindsay Buckingham - Big Love (acoustic) is another. The latter relies heavily on muscle memory, so it's kind of strange that I can't do it. A friend of mine can sing along with whatever he can play, lead a conversation while playing, or even sing words and melody from another song (he demonstrated all three one time I brought it up). He is not a very experienced musician either.

      Yet another acquaintance is a professional church organ player who has no problem playing four different melody lines with his hands and feet, but he tends to cock up the vocals if he tries to sing along when he plays the piano.

      I have no idea how this works, for my own part I'm fairly good at multitasking in other respects.

      --
      Are you a grammar Nazi? I'm trying to improve my English; please correct my errors! :)
    45. Re:Interesting... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More like UI event registered with long delay, hardware interrupt sounds serious. Only when stuff starts to fly it becomes a hardware interrupt.

    46. Re:Interesting... by tixxit · · Score: 1

      People pattern match and, moreover, we build higher level abstractions of things we pattern match often, and push the more routine parts into the subconscious parts of our brain. You probably not only read a word's shape, but probably match phrases as well and read in chunks of 3-7 words, rather than a word at a time. Even then, when was the last time you thought of how to spell a word you were typing? I'd guess you probably do it for 1 in 10 or 1 in 20 words at worst. When writing, we think in higher level abstractions of sentences and words, and our motor system is the one that does the spelling.

      Read out loud to your wife (or whoever) and have them note every time you say something different than what is written in the book. You'd be surprised at how often you ad lib; your brain "filling in the gaps" while you read.

    47. Re:Interesting... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I'll be reading a book and then realise I've been on auto-pilot for the last 3 pages and actually have no recollection of what I just read.

      As a rule, the faster you read, the more you have to concentrate. You can get into what is almost a trance state when you're reading really quickly, you literally do not hear what people are saying to you as your brain is focussed on what yu ar reading.

      Needless to say, this canbecome anti-social if you're not reading alone.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    48. Re:Interesting... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I'm not really sure why this is news, it's been known for many years that speed readers were recognizing words visually without having to sound them out.

      Fast or speed readers don't literally pronounce each word in their heads, but that's not the same thing as saying they see words (or whole phrases?) as individual pictures. Mostly it's a question of practice at running words together

      And there's a big difference between reading fiction for pleasure and ploughing through a technical manual for information.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    49. Re:Interesting... by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      Well, I am the definition of anti-social.

      I'd join facebook if it wern't for the fact other people can read what you post.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    50. Re:Interesting... by hedwards · · Score: 1

      You're not going to speed read any of those things as the retention period is about 20 minutes tops.

  5. This is news? by Lispy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Interesting. I was under the impression that this is common sense. Maybe I should have spoken it out aloud in order to get all the praise. ;) Pretty interesting still to know that this is scientifically proven now. I wonder if this could be used for learning another language.

    1. Re:This is news? by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I've been reading since age 3 and read at 1500 wpm with 100% comprehension. I could have told them long ago that this is how I do it.

      It's part of my autism.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    2. Re:This is news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, seriously. How would anyone think that a skilled reader pieces together words letter by letter? This is why known words are quick to read and novel ones take time, only they need the letter by letter process.

    3. Re:This is news? by CaptainPatent · · Score: 2

      Agreed - seems about as obvious as some of the patents microsoft pushes. *BOOM*

      --
      Well, back to rejecting software patent applications.
    4. Re:This is news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spell this: HINDSIGHT.

    5. Re:This is news? by vlm · · Score: 1

      Interesting. I was under the impression that this is common sense.

      Some people read by shape and thats why they can be provoked into a killing rage by bad typography, horrible fonts, and awful visual noise like shiny computer/PDA/tablet screens. It stresses them out, like how peering into a fog or concentrating on radio static can be fatiguing.

      Some people read by sounding it out, and they are incapable of noticing bad typography, fonts are lost in the noise of phonics or whatever goes on in there, and visual noise is artsy and cute and to be encouraged.

      I have wondered if high speed reading would be a valid way to test precognition or some other ESP type ability, or maybe test for insanity? Just flashing my eyes across the screen shouldn't push enough bandwidth to actually OCR the page, so maybe unconsciously the brain runs on its own using ESP or pure mental craziness and the paper is just periodically keeping the brains made up story sorta on track?

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    6. Re:This is news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It kind of happens automatically. I am currently learning Russian by osmosis (just picking it up as my wife and her friends and family speak it). While I can read Cyrillic, when I encounter a word I don't know I read it very slowly, and have to sound out each syllable. When I see a familiar word though, I instantaneously recognize it.

    7. Re:This is news? by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 2

      The fact that all but the slowest readers read by recognizing the pattern of the written word rather than sounding it out in their head has been known for decades. It's what led to the academic de-emphasis on phonics for learning reading. Unfortunately, the education experts didn't stop to consider that sounding out the word in your head over and over is how you *learn* to recognize it by sight.

    8. Re:This is news? by Thelasko · · Score: 1
      --
      One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
    9. Re:This is news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunately, all the people who read in this fashion think like you do, and never mentioned it because they thought it was widespread knowledge. Those who don't do it probably never even considered the possibility of it happening because they'd never heard anyone talk about it and assumed everyone did it the way they did.

    10. Re:This is news? by gujo-odori · · Score: 1

      I know. Anyone with any background in linguistics or education, or even just anyone with kids who have reached school age, knows this is true. Unless there is something novel that they've done and TFA doesn't go into, it sounds like they're really late to the party.

    11. Re:This is news? by Binestar · · Score: 1

      so your reading ability goes way down if you use another font? I find that my reading ability is unaffected by fonts (within reason -- I can't read wingdings for example =)

      --
      Do you Gentoo!?
    12. Re:This is news? by Keith111 · · Score: 1

      Modern science has become the art of proving common sense to be true/false. Interesting thing is though is that if only skilled readers do this it would explain why some people don't get pissed off at "you're" / "your" mixups. I see them and they are completely different and wrong and make no sense to me when I read it until I stop and translate it in my brain to the right word then continue on. Apparently illiterate people still sound out words and thus words which sound the same have the same meaning to them.

    13. Re:This is news? by Zedrick · · Score: 1

      It's not news, I remember my teacher telling us about this (how you recognize the shape of words, not letters) back in 1982. It has probably been known for much longer than that.

      Oh well, this is Slashdot "news"...

      (can I take that back? It IS old news, but OTOH it's a cool thing that kind of fits here)

    14. Re:This is news? by ScottyLad · · Score: 1

      I fully agree - I notice this acutely at the moment, as I've been learning Russian for the past few months.

      When I'm reading a book or an article, I skim over the common words, and slow down to sound out the unfamiliar ones. I noticed as my learning was progressing, that I would sometimes slow down to read every letter of a word in print, then realise it's actually a word I'm familiar with once I'd sounded it out in my head

      Also, I noticed as I was becoming better at reading in Russian, that once I had started recognising common syllables, my reading started to speed up almost exponentially - for example, imaging learning English from scratch - it starts off as a load of jumbled letters on the page, then you start noticing recurring patterns - ~ing ~ate ~eral int~ ext~ ~ated etc

      Since making this observation, I've also noticed that I'm able to quickly take in unfamiliar words in English, largely because I'm only actually processing a couple of syllables rather than a whole word.

      Interestingly, I am almost completely unable to read Russian transliterated in to Latin characters, but can quickly read unfamiliar words in Cyrillic.

      --
      Philosopher (n) - a wise person who is calm and rational; someone who lives a life of reason with equanimity
    15. Re:This is news? by hoggoth · · Score: 1

      > Just flashing my eyes across the screen shouldn't push enough bandwidth to actually OCR the page

      I often have the experience that my eyes glance across some papers on a desk and I notice an interesting word or phrase is in there somewhere but I have no idea *which* paper it is on. I would have to read through everything looking for it.

      --
      - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
    16. Re:This is news? by Cyberax · · Score: 1

      "Interestingly, I am almost completely unable to read Russian transliterated in to Latin characters"

      Even native speakers hate transliterated Russian. It's just ugly.

    17. Re:This is news? by oldmac31310 · · Score: 2

      Yes. If I see anything set in Comic Sans I am completely unable to read it!

      --
      http://www.acetonestudio.com
    18. Re:This is news? by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      No, the brain is rather good at filtering out trivial information ... hence why you can ready letters regardless of which font they are in.

      Do you have a problem reading a letter in different fonts? No? Why would you assume its any different?

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    19. Re:This is news? by dward90 · · Score: 1

      Most fonts are about the same shape, except for fonts which mimic cursive (at least in English). The style and feel are different, but the shapes stay largely unchanged.

      For me, it explains why it takes me longer to read actual text in fixed width fonts, and why I often forget that variable names in my programs also happen to be English words.

      And it's not reading ability, it's reading speed, which I'd be hesitant to trust self-assessment on with metrics.

      --
      My other sig is clever.
    20. Re:This is news? by poppopret · · Score: 1

      Yes, of course. The default xterm font, known as "7x13" or "fixed", is the fastest. Next best would be whatever Firefox uses for Slashdot...

    21. Re:This is news? by arielCo · · Score: 1

      It's also the final explanation for grammar cops like me. I rely on sentence structure to extract meaning faster, so when I encounter unexpected punctuation or syntax I have to re-read. In the worst cases I have to "sound it out".

      About speed-reading, the whole resolution + from your eyes *is* available with a few ms of exposure to allow for saccades and other neat tricks. I posit that speed-readers take an accurate snapshot and hold it long enough for a fast, highly efficient recognition of whole words.

      --
      This post contains no rudeness or derision of any kind. All arguments are friendly. Terms and exclusions may apply.
    22. Re:This is news? by kqs · · Score: 2

      Very unusual fonts slow me down for a bit until my brain learns to map them. Fonts where all the letters are the same height always suck.

    23. Re:This is news? by jdege · · Score: 1

      Actually, skilled readers generally recognize patterns of words and phrases, not just of individual words. That's why the "the the" brain teasers work. Folks don't even look at the individual words when the phrase is familiar.

      Still, folks slow down and spell out, when reading unfamiliar words. And when you're just starting, all words are unfamiliar. That's why whole-word fails as a teaching method.

      --
      When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.
    24. Re:This is news? by omnichad · · Score: 1

      My problem that keeps me from reading any faster is that although I read patterns, I can't stop myself from saying it out loud in my head. If I start reading too fast, I start to feel like my tongue is tied. I don't really know how to read without hearing sounds in my head, nor even where to start.

    25. Re:This is news? by ygslash · · Score: 1

      Interesting. I was under the impression that this is common sense. Maybe I should have spoken it out aloud in order to get all the praise. ;)

      Of course, this has been well known for at least 30 years, and it has been the foundation of all reading methods for about that long. Everyone studying for a degree in education learns about it in their first-year reading methods course, and everyone studying special education spends months or even years studying the fine details.

      But don't forget - this is a press release. It is written by marketing writers, not by scientists or educators.

      If you read these marketing blurbs very carefully, sometimes you can get lucky and find a scrap of actual information somewhere. And in fact, buried in the middle, we can find some quotes of the scientists, from which we infer the actual purpose of the research. They're trying to get a better understanding of the neurological mechanisms behind these well-known phenomena.

      My, my, what a surprise, considering that the researchers are neurologists.

    26. Re:This is news? by DriedClexler · · Score: 1

      Then how did you end up as a Marxist?

      --
      Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
    27. Re:This is news? by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      Depends on the font. Wingdings is a problem, yes, as is Algerian, Bauhaus 93, BlackadderITC....and those are just the first three picks off the font list in MS Word. Any font that thinks an s and an f are the same character also causes me problems.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    28. Re:This is news? by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      As a phase on my way through puberty- when I read all of Marx's books in a single summer. I'm currently really a Chestertonian Distributist. The difference is in who owns the property- Marxism is for nobody owning anything and the State owning everything, distributism is about everybody starting out with the same amount of property ownership and being unable to sell your initial stake, which is enough for you to live on in an emergency.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    29. Re:This is news? by izomiac · · Score: 1

      I remember being taught this as a sophomore in highschool. In 2003 there seems to have been a chain e-mail and Slashdot article that talked about it as well, . I'm not sure who could possibly think we subvocalize every word, that's obviously not what happens unless you're very inexperienced with a language.

    30. Re:This is news? by epine · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I've been reading since age 3 and read at 1500 wpm with 100% comprehension. I could have told them long ago that this is how I do it.

      If you ask a group of people to self-assess for leadership skill, eighty percent report above average leadership skills. What seems to be happening is that each person defines leadership as heaps of whichever skill component he/she happens to possess, and not so much of the skill components he/she lacks. They are all telling the truth with respect to variable criteria.

      So I'm wondering, does autism define "comprehend" the same way a non-autistic person does? I read about half that speed, and I don't feel limited by word recognition, but more by the multiple processes of figuring out where the author is coming from (or not, if the agenda is to apply lipstick to a mental vacuum). There are so many layers to discourse analysis it's hard to list them all.

      "Comprehend" could mean retaining information points presented as fact. Or it could mean assigning the dribble of factoids into mental categories "pulled from ass", "brandishing urban legend", "regurgitated from recent popular news story", "manufactured in a pique of convenience", "seduced by right-thinking glean", "outright deception", etc. It's a lot of work when reading to man the airport scanner of psychological bogosity.

      Furthermore, these assessments are fluid and tentative and require a large working reserve of rewritable storage. A model of the author as a reliable or unreliable human being is formed, if the assessment is to care enough to do the work.

      This last effect is most obvious watching movies. I give weak passing grades to diverting films I couldn't care less about. If the movie gets just enough better that I start to care about what it might have been, that's when my harshest judgments are unleashed: I've entered into the punative "made me look" valley where I actually turn on the critical machinery--often to discover not entirely quickly enough that it was a false start. The subset of the movies that make me care and then reward the bother is where I start giving out decent scores.

      Sometime when reading I turn the page, and go "ugh" inside and then feel the overwhelming urge to skip forward half a page or a whole page, or both pages. Then I go "how can you _know_ all this text is worthless in a tiny fraction of a second after the page flip?" So I go back and slog through it and sure enough, in the vast majority of cases, my instant assessment was right on the money.

      Many of the long-winded essays linked from aldaily.com are particularly challenging in this regard. Some of those writers are talented enough to go on for page after page saying hardly anything at all, while defeating the immediate "this is vacuous crap" quick page-turn self defense. It appears that there is a high art to saying nothing in such an elaborate and convoluted way that busting the vacuity of the prose reduces me to my real-time reading speed.

      I once read a piece, Kirkegaard I think, about chasing a bug around a desk with a pin while enduring immense boredom in the classroom. The humanities is where you learn to wield the pin, and make your reader perform as the bug. Not always, but fairly often. What to these people does the word "comprehend" actually mean?

    31. Re:This is news? by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      No. The you're / your mix-up happens because the apostrophe is normally used to indicate a possessive word. This is a usage conflict with the use of apostrophes to indicate writing words as if they are poorly pronounced. "You're" is writing the same way you would write "S'up" for poorly spoken "What is up?", or " 'cept " might be writing to indicate someone using poor grammar for saying "except". In English, we have a small list of slurred exceptions that we have declared to be "proper" English.

      While our language is what it is, "You're" is a case of bad grammar being introduced and accepted into the language, and it having a punctuation that indicates it is possessive.

      I tend to recommend to people that they not behave as grammar Nazi's for two reasons. The first is because it is the internet equivalent of saying "You are completely right. Since I don't want to admit it, and have nothing rational to add, I will attack the spelling/grammar."

      The second is that EVERYONE makes spelling and grammar mistakes sometimes when writing. In years gone by, I would engage the spelling/grammer Nazi's for sport. If I could keep them typing long enough, they would always end up making some kind of written error. Thus being a spelling/grammar Nazi is inherently being a hypocrite.

    32. Re:This is news? by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

      Some people read by shape and thats why they can be provoked into a killing rage by bad typography, horrible fonts

      Now, now, let's not discount a strong sense of aesthetics.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    33. Re:This is news? by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      Hmm. So once the country's land is owned, what do the distributists do when the next baby is born?

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    34. Re:This is news? by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      Some of those writers are talented enough to go on for page after page saying hardly anything at all, while defeating the immediate "this is vacuous crap" quick page-turn self defense.

      Reminds me of both Frank Herbert's paid-by-the-word writing in "The White Plague" (excellent book, but should have been 1/3 the size); and also the old quote, "diplomacy is the art of saying nice doggy until you find a rock", which would be transformed into something like, "successful vacuous writing is the art of saying something the reader will find interesting, while you fill your bank account" -- or something similar, I'm tired. :)

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    35. Re:This is news? by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      If I could keep them typing long enough, they would always end up making some kind of written error. Thus being a spelling/grammar Nazi is inherently being a hypocrite.

      To an extent; however, consider their feedback similar to a RAID array: every drive you own will die some day, but by setting your system up properly, you hopefully will not experience dataloss when a drive dies. Similarly, all grammar Nazi's (heh) will fail at some point -- however, that does not negate the benefits of their feedback in terms of teaching, training, and learning (regardless of how harsh they were).

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    36. Re:This is news? by Livius · · Score: 1

      I don't think real scientists in linguists thought that people, or all people anyway, read by recognizing individual letter, assembling them into sounds, and figuring out the words that went with the sounds.

      Reading words will certainly activate the sound patterns stored in the brain, but there are many possible correlations.

    37. Re:This is news? by garaged · · Score: 1

      What kind of fonts do web adds use? I pretty much can't read adds without a real effort while wanting to do it

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    38. Re:This is news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course it is not news, but it might well be the first time somebody has managed to provide physical evidence of what is going on. I went on a speed-reading course over twenty years ago that taught various techniques. The most important of these is 'do not subvocalise' - i.e. do not read each word 'aloud' silently in your head. We were also taught that although the eye can move very fast - try looking as far to one side as you can, then look the other way: it doesn't take long - it can only make about 4 stops per second. This means that to read faster than 240 words per minute you need to be looking at more than one word at once. Hence I suspect the real 'word recognition' process is to capture a block of several words, then process each word from that cache.
      My normal leisure reading speed is about 1000wpm. If I need to gather information quickly I can go up to 3000wpm, and if I need to skim a previously read book looking for a particular passage that I know is in there somewhere, it is about 1-2 seconds per page. There is no way that can be anything other than pure pattern matching.

    39. Re:This is news? by Neil+Boekend · · Score: 1

      It seems fonts have different lookup tables for me. I have to slow down when the font changes, usually the "read buffer" is already full when I notice the font change, so I have to re-read the text (when reading at max speed).
      For this cursive, buld and caps are definately different fonts, and I hate people who use them to much.
      Caps are terrible anyways. They mess up the shape of the word. People who use all caps shoud be castrated with a blunt chainsaw.

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    40. Re:This is news? by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      ""Comprehend" could mean retaining information points presented as fact." I was using that definition. Due to my version of autism, the others didn't occur to me. At all. But then again, I'm pretty bad at non-factual information, whether in reading or in real life.

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    41. Re:This is news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly!! As someone who spent over a decade participating in emergent reading and early reading research, it is clear that individuals require phonological awareness and the ability to sound out words to learn to read efficiently. As you encounter words multiple times and in a variety or contexts those words become encoded in this visual dictionary. The fact that the sentence in mixed caps and lower case takes longer to read is an example of the visual dictionary. The fact that you can read it at all is an example of using decoding for words that don't fit with what's in the visual dictionary.

  6. Seklild Rderaes by erilane · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a total mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh?

    1. Re:Seklild Rderaes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Having seen that about 10 billion times helps too.

    2. Re:Seklild Rderaes by broken_chaos · · Score: 1

      Yup. And I can raed taht etrine tnihg mselyf, brleay soinlwg dwon.

    3. Re:Seklild Rderaes by Tr3vin · · Score: 1

      But you haven't seen that exact text, so the point still stands.

    4. Re:Seklild Rderaes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Strange thing, I actually had a bit of a problem reading your title, but no problem with the actual content of the post.

      So, color and/or size may also play a part of this remembering process.

    5. Re:Seklild Rderaes by tverbeek · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Except that the human mind can read it faster and more reliably when the letters are in the correct order. (And simply correct.)

      Lazy and barely-literate types will mewl "o u new wut i ment", and it's true that a reasonably intelligent person can figure it out, but communication is easier and less stressful when everyone uses standard spelling. The fact that an experienced reader can go beyond deciphering individual phonemes and recognize the patterns is one part of that.

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    6. Re:Seklild Rderaes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pcocyppok. Slpmiy rnisreveg the ianretnl lrettes of ecah wrod rtluses in a mcuh lses rlbadaee gelbrad mses.

    7. Re:Seklild Rderaes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      1. If you reverse all the internal characters of a word keeping the first and last in the same position, as you did, it becomes _very_ hard to read.
      2. You didn't keep the shape of the words: "Aoccdrnig" -> "According" -> "Aroccdnig", "rscheearch" -> "research" -> you even spelled it wrong, maybe that's why it was so hard for me -> "rsecerah; "Cmabrigde" -> "Cambridge" -> you did it right; "Uinervtisy" -> "University" -> Uvisevrity"...

      But I don't think this person is correct about the shape of the word, unless the space under the "n" and the space around and inside the "v" come into significant play. Also a rather hollow "c" vs a rather solid "a". More research must be done to determine exactly which aspects of the shape go into how we identify words, because I do believe that is the right track. Perhaps they could vary the sizes of letters, or the font to get different effects and see if they can "trick" their readers.

      I'm convinced Asians do it much the same way. If you see kanji on the computer, a lot of it can be so complex that certain parts of each just become a solid black box with a couple pixels sticking out of each side. Nevertheless, they seem to have no delay in identifying the kanji.

    8. Re:Seklild Rderaes by mark-t · · Score: 1

      In your comment, I found myself tripping over 'etrine', 'brleay', and 'soinlwn', parsing them as mostly nonsense without rereading the enitre sentence more slowly (actually, I had initially parsed 'brleay' as 'barley'). I didn't slow down even slightly for any of the other words. Not sure what that says about me...

    9. Re:Seklild Rderaes by JWSmythe · · Score: 1

          That's probably not what you were encountering.

          We can understand misspellings and other small errors. You can even miss whole words, because we comprehend what we read by evaluating the context of it. The title "Skulled Riders" made no sense to me, because it had no context around it. Knowing what the post was saying allowed it to be clarified that it really said "Skilled Readers".

          This is also why you can solve puzzles, like Wheel of Fortune type games, or crossword puzzles. You have some sort of clue for context.

          Try this...

          U _ _

          Completely useless without contest. . Give it a little context though. "A country". Voila, you immediately guessed "UAE". Oh.. you didn't. Because in your context (you are always part of the context), assuming you are in North America, you would have thought of countries close to you, which would presumably be the USA.

         

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    10. Re:Seklild Rderaes by Broolucks · · Score: 1

      I know I have

    11. Re:Seklild Rderaes by nathan+s · · Score: 1

      What's interesting is that when you take those words out of context, as you just did, I could no longer easily recognize them, which implies that the shape-matching has a contextual aspect to it, at least for me. It seems my mind predicts what words are likely to come next, which makes the letter-jumble less important.

    12. Re:Seklild Rderaes by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      While I can read that just fine, that doesn't make it any less obnoxious when people do it thinking they are cute.

      --
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    13. Re:Seklild Rderaes by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Kanji is pieces, parts and overlays. There are rules for how to interpret it. It's effectively reading multiple shapes at once.

    14. Re:Seklild Rderaes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except it's not actually true.

      A nice explanation from an actual researcher at Cambridge can be found here (about halfway down the page).

      http://www.mrc-cbu.cam.ac.uk/people/matt.davis/Cmabrigde/

    15. Re:Seklild Rderaes by omnichad · · Score: 1

      too big of a transposition of the tall letters, which probably serve as spatial anchors in the word picture.

    16. Re:Seklild Rderaes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then you have those who take it to the other extreme and just want to belittle those around them. Many just want to show they are smarter than others. Even if it has 0 effect on the conversation than make you look like an ass...

      Also you managed to do without even correcting someone! I thought you needed to actually correct someone to be a spelling/grammar nazi. I stand corrected...

      Here is a piece of advice a wise man once gave me. "You may be smarter than everyone else in the room, but keep your mouth shut or you might end up just looking like a showoff jerk."

      Also do you have proof of the human mind can read it faster and more reliably ? Or is it just something you think is true?

    17. Re:Seklild Rderaes by DontBlameCanada · · Score: 1

      I think particularly bad transpositions can trigger the phonetic interpreter.

      > I had initially parsed 'brleay' as 'barley'

      I did that *exact* parsing as well. Makes some sense "br" "leay" could be read phonetically as "brr-lee" or "brr-lay" which sound like a Southern US (first) or British Isles (second) pronunciation.

    18. Re:Seklild Rderaes by jsrjsr · · Score: 1

      I normally read at 1500 wpm. When I read your paragraph, I hesitated at half of the words you scrambled. So much for the theory that you can scramble the spelling without causing problems. Maybe there is a signal to noise threshold involved here?

    19. Re:Seklild Rderaes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And then there those whose methods of communication are irrelevant, because they have nothing constructive to contribute.

    20. Re:Seklild Rderaes by neonKow · · Score: 1

      Except that the human mind can read it faster and more reliably when the letters are in the correct order. (And simply correct.)

      Lazy and barely-literate types will mewl "o u new wut i ment", and it's true that a reasonably intelligent person can figure it out, but communication is easier and less stressful when everyone uses standard spelling. The fact that an experienced reader can go beyond deciphering individual phonemes and recognize the patterns is one part of that.

      I would actually like to contradict this. I read by the shape of the word too, so as long as the length and general shape of the word is right, I oftentimes won't notice a mispelling, and I'll sometime even fill in missing words because the overall shape of a phrase is correct.

      This leads to two different issues: I'll misread phrases because of that, and "o u new wut i ment" is extraordinarily difficult for me to read because it's spelled out phonetically, and when I read, I don't hear the sound. I go straight from shape>word>meaning. However, the parent's famous quote doesn't make me even pause, so I don't think the order of letters matters to me.

      This also makes me a poor speller, unless I'm paying a lot of attention to the words (say because I'm sounding out the word because I'm learning a new language).

    21. Re:Seklild Rderaes by godrik · · Score: 1

      I should distribute printout of that post in my son's school...

    22. Re:Seklild Rderaes by 6Yankee · · Score: 2

      A Spanish-speaker once asked me what "mocho" meant. I had no idea. I asked him for the context: "innit m8".

      The way I see it, it's basic courtesy at least to try and write in complete words, instead of bashing out whatever 1337 lolspeak gibberish hits my fingertips just to save a few seconds - seconds that others will have to spend deciphering my drivel. A post here could be read by two million registered users; is my time really worth two million times as much as anyone else's? If it were, I wouldn't waste it by posting here :D And no, a mobile device isn't an excuse - say less, well.

      As for spelling mistakes, they tend to jump out at me from about three lines away. Unless, of course, they appear in my own posts...

    23. Re:Seklild Rderaes by MartinSchou · · Score: 1

      Lazy and barely-literate types will mewl "o u new wut i ment", and it's true that a reasonably intelligent person can figure it out

      Suppose you have a 150+ IQ and you're very dyslexic. You might train yourself to recognize the words, if they're spelled exactly correct, but "o u new wut i ment" will not make any sense at all.

      And I do have to wonder about deaf people. How do you know that "oh" and "o" are homophones, if you can't hear them being spoken? Same of "you" and "u", "knew" and "new", "what" and "wut" and of course "meant" and "ment".

      Personally I get pissed off when people write like that, because their laziness is creating extra work for me. And no, dyslectic people do not write like that. I've never had the same kind of guttural reaction of hatred when reading a text from someone I don't know who's dyslectic - somehow (and I don't know how) my brain can tell the difference.

      Now, if it was a small decrease in reading speed and comprehension, I might not be as upset as I become, but when I run into writing like that, it gives me the same aftershock to my brain, as hitting a speedbump at 80 km/h - it's very very uncomfortable, and it takes a bit for my brain to gather itself again.

    24. Re:Seklild Rderaes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This video (warning: annoying guy) debunks it though.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNStNUizxhE

      tl;dw The order of the letters matters a lot. Truly randomizing the (non leading or trailing) letters would mess it up.

    25. Re:Seklild Rderaes by gknoy · · Score: 1

      With the T9 text completion on my phone, it's almost always faster and easier for me to write out a whole word than to get it to recognize an abbreviation.

    26. Re:Seklild Rderaes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think that to be able to understand unordered letters is a nice indicator of foreign language skills

    27. Re:Seklild Rderaes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but, in the immortal words of Francis Ford Coppola to Dennis Hopper during the making of 'Apocalypse Now':

      "Dennis, first you have to learn the script, then you can forget the script!"

      You won't recognise words you haven't first learned. The real debate is not how do you read them, but what is the best way to learn them in the first place, one that prepares you to figure out the meaning of words you've never encountered before.

    28. Re:Seklild Rderaes by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      (I'm going for Informative.)

      A Spanish-speaker once asked me what "mocho" meant. I had no idea. I asked him for the context: "innit m8".

      In English, we have the abbreviation "K9" for "canine". In Brazilian Portuguese (and perhaps continental), they have the abbreviation "K7" for "cassette". (A Portuguese 7 is pronounced (in English phonemes) like "set'-she", and their word for "cassette" is pronounced "ca-set'-she", so it works just as well -- but I thought the store had something to do with dogs, the first time I saw it. :)

      --
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    29. Re:Seklild Rderaes by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Oh.. you didn't. Because in your context (you are always part of the context), assuming you are in North America, you would have thought of countries close to you, which would presumably be the USA.

      Actually, I was considering Uruguay, and mostly missed the underscores. I don't like underscores, and can't do crossword puzzles for that reason as well.

    30. Re:Seklild Rderaes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Debunked

      "Anidroccg to crad–cniyrrag lcitsiugnis planoissefors at an uemannd utisreviny in Bsitirh Cibmuloa, and crartnoy to the duoibus cmials of the ueticnd rcraeseh, a slpmie, macinahcel ioisrevnn of ianretnl cretcarahs araepps sneiciffut to csufnoe the eadyrevy oekoolnr."

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typoglycemia

    31. Re:Seklild Rderaes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mocho is a owl in Portuguese.
      I remember having to ask the same question when I first saw gr8

    32. Re:Seklild Rderaes by siouxgeonz · · Score: 1

      Duly note taht there never was any such research, and that actually, it does matter what the order is (there are some you can get away with switching, and some that you can't), and that actually, a whole lot of people *do* struggle with reading this stuff (as evidenced by actually measuring their speed & comprehension, as opposed to whether they post "it is easy."

    33. Re:Seklild Rderaes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think that heavier anagramming to disrupt the words' shapes and substructure more would make it more difficult than that example suggests. Clearly, words like "that" can't be anagrammed well, and "are" and "the" can't be changed at all. But in the example below, you can't immediately read "adrncoicg" as "according" or "itnarompt" as "important".

      Adrncoicg to rashcereh at Cgdirmbae Utivseniry, it dseon't metatr in waht oderr the lrteets in a wrod are, the olny itnarompt tnihg is taht the fsirt and lsat lteetr be at the rghit pacle.

    34. Re:Seklild Rderaes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And yet I have no problem identifying the shape of 'lol wut' or 'u mad bro?' due to a sufficient number of recognition opportunities.

  7. I have a weird disorder by udachny · · Score: 0

    I have a strange disorder, where I can't recognize words by shape, I have to read the words specifically, very carefully before I know what they are. It's unfortunate.

    1. Re:I have a weird disorder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dyslexia.

  8. Old news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've seen this before. Just last week I was talking to my wife about how it's easier reading lowercase letters than uppercase because the word shapes are more distinct.

  9. 2nd Grade by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 5, Funny

    My daughter come home from 2nd Grade every week with a list of 'sight-words' to focus on - that is, words that were intended to be immediately recognized, not sounded out.

    Glad modern science has caught up with elementary school.

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    1. Re:2nd Grade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think it's more than what your second-grade daughter is being taught to do. As I see it, there are at least two different types of recognization. One is by the order of letters in the word, which is possibly what your daughter is doing at the initial stages. Another is by the shape/outline of the word, with the internal details of the visual representation of the word being ignored. Or, just as likely, the recognition is at the level of phrases, rather than at the word level.

      Of course, this is probably all well known. Forty some odd years ago, as a junior high student, I took a speed reading course in summer school, which emphasized fast sight recognition of words and phrases.

    2. Re:2nd Grade by Crudely_Indecent · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't understand how they can latch onto the "sounding out" theory when there are so many examples of ancient cultures using hieroglyphs. There aren't any letters to sound-out in these ancient languages, yet the cultures that used them extensively didn't have problems understanding them.

      Catching up with elementary school, what about catching up to the ancient Egyptians?

      --


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    3. Re:2nd Grade by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 0

      How the fuck can you not read in second grade? I could read before kindergarten.

    4. Re:2nd Grade by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      My 5 year old daughter reads this way already. She has a tough time sounding out words if confronted with something new (we're working on that) but she can read entire books just based off words that she's memorized. And I'm not talking about simple toddler books either. She has a huge vocabulary of words she just recognizes by sight alone.

      --

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    5. Re:2nd Grade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only people who understood hieroglyphs were a tiny, tiny elite class of people in the culture. There's no reason to believe that hieroglyphs were optimized for comprehension. There are people among us who can read binary computer code like a book. Just because they can do this doesn't mean it reflects an innate capacity among the general population.

    6. Re:2nd Grade by HornWumpus · · Score: 2

      Do you realize how long Chinese students spend memorizing characters and practicing their calligraphy?

      I'm not so sure the catching up isn't going the other way.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    7. Re:2nd Grade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are aware that Egyptian hieroglyphs are not pictograms, right? The hieroglyphs actually represent sounds. That's why the Rosetta stone actually made translating Egyptian hieroglyphs possible.

    8. Re:2nd Grade by b4dc0d3r · · Score: 2

      The research was there, but it was never solid enough to explain everything, so it was an accepted theory while they looked for something better.

      Sounding out is, I believe, more of a teaching method, and one of those theories where if it works to teach it that way, that must be the way it works to learn. Kinda the same way the sun revolves around the earth, because that's the simplest explanation given what we knew.

      Science is a gold digging slut, giving you what you want or need until something better comes along. Especially given the anecdotes here - some people do apparently sound words out, and they may do it because they were taught that way and never developed fluidity (fluency?) in reading to take it to the symbolic step. Maybe pictograph learning will be the "new math" of language teaching.

    9. Re:2nd Grade by RatherBeAnonymous · · Score: 1

      And the Whole Language Theory roars back to life. I hope that in your daughter's elementary school they are not rigidly fixated on kids reading by 'sight-words". In a nutshell, researchers discovered decades ago that proficient readers recognize thousands of words by shape. So the idea came about to skip all the messy phonetics and just teach kids how to read by intuitively recognizing word shapes. This was an extremely popular theory in the 70's and 80's. The Dick and Jane readers are an example of whole language theory used to teach reading. The problem is that it doesn't work for a lot of kids. The theory was generally discredited in the 90's as a teaching methodology. I believe the whole language theory is to blame for functionally illiterate adults who can not read words they were not taught in elementary school. My wife learned to read from dick and jane and is totally incapable of sounding a word out that she has not seen before. There is a lot of truth in Whole Language theory. But if you never teach kids to sound out words, they will never know how to read a word they didn't learn from an adult. It's far better to teach kids to phonetics and let them progress naturally.

    10. Re:2nd Grade by inviolet · · Score: 4, Informative

      My daughter come home from 2nd Grade every week with a list of 'sight-words' to focus on - that is, words that were intended to be immediately recognized, not sounded out.

      Glad modern science has caught up with elementary school.

      That teaching method was originally introduced in the 1960s as "Look Say". It was part of the general ideological overhaul of public education, of which the "New Math" was also a part. It all sprang from Russel et. al.'s philosophy of Behaviorism, which pointed away from man-the-rational and towards man-the-animal. Hence reading by memorization rather than by rational system (phonics).

      Since then it has been discredited and so it had to change its name, I think it's called "Whole Language" now. It still competes with Phonics. This new research suggests the reason why Look Say is not the total failure that I and others predicted. However, it has a bit of difficulty explaining why (as others in this thread have pointed out) we can so easily read words whose internal letters are jumbled, so long as the first and last letters are correct.

      --
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    11. Re:2nd Grade by swillden · · Score: 1

      And the Whole Language Theory roars back to life. I hope that in your daughter's elementary school they are not rigidly fixated on kids reading by 'sight-words".

      I've had kids in elementary for the last 15 years or so (my oldest is a senior in HS, youngest is in 4th grade), and it seems that reading instruction has settled into a comfortable mix of phonics and sight reading that maps pretty well to the way most kids learn. The approach basically seems to be to teach phonics, but teach common words with non-phonetic spellings as sight words. Then once kids have a basic level of proficiency they stop teaching "reading" at all and just focus on vocabulary and spelling while doing various things to encourage kids to read plenty of fiction.

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    12. Re:2nd Grade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or modern-day Cantonese, Mandarin, Japanese, Korean, to name a few...

    13. Re:2nd Grade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most early writing systems are either phonetic or syllabic - aside from some of the really ancient ones which are almost entirely word-based (one symbol, one word - limited the dictionary somewhat) or idea-based (one symbol, one concept). These extremely ancient alphabets certainly don't have any fixed sounds, which makes them extremely portable. You can produce texts in such a writing system to multiple societies with no common language and have the texts totally understandable.

      (Indeed, this is why modern versions of such writing systems are in use today for international communication. They're wonderful for it.)

      Joined-up writing also goes with the concept of form rather than sounding-out. You can read such scripts just as fast and just as reliably as isolated characters, maybe even faster if it's writing you know well. This makes sense if you're looking at an entire shape. A word written in cursive is a single shape, not multiple shapes. Because it's a single shape, you essentially have one character representing the entire word, an ideogram. So long as there's only a very limited range of styles and you only memorize a specialized dictionary, your brain will have no problems with handling it.

      The move away from cursive to printed characters is therefore likely to be a mistake. Those who remember only the individual characters will remember less but be able to process only much more slowly as they WILL have to sound out everything. Those who remember whole words won't save on anything but WILL have to train themselves on what gaps are important and what ones aren't - training cursive people never have to go through.

    14. Re:2nd Grade by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

      Wait, you mean that the extremely frequent bird hieroglyphs don't mean that the Egyptians talked about birds all the time?

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    15. Re:2nd Grade by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      Dick and Jane got a bad rap. "Whole Language" will mean different thing based on who you talk to, so I will try to take with the definition that your context seems to indicate. That is, you seem to be defining "Whole Language as reading as "rote memorization". If I understand you correctly, you have developed a false dichotomy. Phonetics is insufficient on it's own to teach someone to be functionally literate. Our language has WAY to many exceptions. Much of our language has spellings that can (barring university level etymology) pretty much only be explained by "That is an exception, and we just spell it that way."

      Phonetics is a hinting system. It is a REALLY GOOD hinting system, but it cannot be relied on for functional literacy. Learning words by rote is absolutely necessary. Dick and Jane are great because it starts out with one word a page, and builds to the point that kids are reading real stories. Very simple stories, sure. But real stories none the less. There is nothing about Dick and Jane that precludes teaching phonetics other than it uses some very common words that are not spelled phonetically.

      It wasn't phonetics that killed Dick and Jane. It was Doctor Suess. That is a real shame too, since much of Doctor Suess'es works are terrible for teach children. They are made up of nonsense and mispronounced words. They were heralded as great for kids because they were fun, and the thinking of the time was that if it was fun, kids would read them, and this would inherently translate into better reading. I don't believe this to have panned out.

    16. Re:2nd Grade by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      A person who reads exclusively through phonetics is functionally illiterate. While it is technically possible to be literate by strictly reading by rote memorization, it is unlikely to be successful. Phonetics is a hinting system. It is a REALLY GOOD hinting system, but much of our language is simply not phonetic.

    17. Re:2nd Grade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's really funny, because I was thinking the same thing. My boy has about 15 or so sight words in kindergarten.

      riffraff (894), not currently signed in.

    18. Re:2nd Grade by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but they don't ever work on sounding out the letters. You learn some basics, and it's all vocabulary and calligraphy from there.

    19. Re:2nd Grade by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      I still haven't figured out what the hell "phonics" is. If you bought hooked on phonics and did the lessons, what do they teach? "look say" at the syllabic, not whole word level?

    20. Re:2nd Grade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Early on, maybe, but heiroglyphs evolved into a phonetic language. Check wikipedia. Same with alot of other written languages.

    21. Re:2nd Grade by Thugthrasher · · Score: 1

      One of the reasons, I believe, why phonics works better than the visual method when TEACHING reading is because with phonics, you can sound out words you've never seen before. Whereas, with the 'sight-words' method, you can only read words that you've seen before.

      You learn a word by sounding it out. Once you've learned the word and seen it a few times, you can then read it whole-word. If you didn't learn the "sounding out" method, then how would you recognize a word when you were reading it for the first time? You might have to consult a dictionary every time you SEE a word you've never seen before, even if you've HEARD it before.

      It's not that complicated. Like many other things, one method is better when learning, another is better for regular use, once you've learned.

    22. Re:2nd Grade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I taught my kids to read using phonics before they entered the 1st grade. I think Rudolf Flesch made a pretty good case for learning this way in his books, "Why Johnny [Still] Can't Read". It's true that experienced readers read by recognizing whole words, but that doesn't mean it's the best way to learn to read English. Many words with quite different meanings and pronunciations look very similar on the page.

    23. Re:2nd Grade by Thugthrasher · · Score: 1

      Not quite. It's memorization, kind of like the "look say" method, but instead of memorizing words, you memorize what sounds are usually associated with certain letters and what sounds MIGHT be associated with the letter combinations. So you will learn that c can be the sound /k/ or /s/ and sometimes might learn situations in which is is more often one or the other. It has it's faults, because not every word is spelled phonetically in English, but it is a great starting point for words you don't know. With phonics, if you see the word "inexplicable" you'd take some guesses because "in" is usually not the long "eye" sound, and "ca" is usually "ka" and an e on the end of the word is often silent and com up with the correct pronunciation or something very close (maybe the long "e" sound or the long "i" sound in the middle syllables). You'd at least be close enough that if you KNEW the word (if you'd heard it spoken before), you'd figure it out. But if you saw that word and didn't know how to sound it out ("look say" method), you'd just have to look it up. That's why phonics works better at first and then you learn to recognize words that it doesn't work on. I mean, it's not all quite as blatant when they are teaching it as I spelled out above, but that's what it comes down to.

    24. Re:2nd Grade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A minute point of spelling correctness. The Latin word et is a complete word, hence needs no period after it.

      I make this remark because I recognize that you are literate, and like to know things.

  10. I've kind of noticed this myself by Nidi62 · · Score: 1

    Often when I am reading, especially if I am tired or kind of zoned out, I will find myself almost skimming over words and reading them, but not really seeing them. I'll be at one spot on the page, then the next thing I know I will find myself several lines, if not a paragraph or 2, away from where I last remember reading, but I will have read the words without realizing it, and can remember what I read.

    --
    The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
  11. We do both by AlienSexist · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Yes it is a visual dictionary and if it is a cache-miss, then the fallback behavior is to re-parse the word slowly and sound it out. After a few encounters with a strange word it becomes visually cached as well. Parsing a word is far slower, of course, and is not the default behavior.

    1. Re:We do both by Broolucks · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I actually often skip even the fallback behavior. This happens especially often when I read novels that take place in foreign locations and the characters have names that I am not accustomed to reading. I read the book from cover to cover and then realize I have not the slightest clue what the main character is named. I recognize the overall shape of the name and the letter it starts with, but the rest is a jumbled mental mess, because I never took the time to read it and sound it out. For instance, while reading Crime and Punishment, to me, the main character's name was always R***********kov, and it would have been R********** if not for the character named R***********khin I had to tell him apart from.

      Visual caching does not require re-parsing and sounding the word. You can just cache an unparsed blob. In general, I only bother parsing and sounding out a word if I expect to hear it, say it or write it later on. For this reason, when I read a name, a neologism or an unknown word that I can guess from the context, I rarely ever bother parsing it. Maybe it's just me, though.

    2. Re:We do both by kqs · · Score: 1

      I do the exact same thing. This was hell in english class way back in school; we'd have quizzes about names and places where I'd score 2/10 despite having read the book.

    3. Re:We do both by pz · · Score: 1

      Yes it is a visual dictionary and if it is a cache-miss, then the fallback behavior is to re-parse the word slowly and sound it out. After a few encounters with a strange word it becomes visually cached as well. Parsing a word is far slower, of course, and is not the default behavior.

      I have had the opportunity to go from an illiterate but fluent speaker in a language (Greek) to a literate one recently. I had been raised speaking the language, but was never taught to read it. With the advent of children whom I wish to also speak my first language, I've had to teach myself to read. This has been an interesting experience, and I can, from personal experience, 100% confirm the above quoted behavior. There is an additional layer, however, that of context. If you are familiar with the words you are about to read in any way, even if it's because you've read the first word in a commonly used phrase that has appeared in an expected context, memorization of the familiar trumps whole-word recognition.

      --

      Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
    4. Re:We do both by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      I did the oposite a few times... that is... I aced the quiz but never read the book. Mostly it was from picking up a few facts about the reading from hallway chatter, then guessing the rest based on context and questions asked... worked quite well.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    5. Re:We do both by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I suspect there's a third mechanism in there. When speed-reading, I'll digest entire chunks of a sentence in one go. This means I'll miss out unexpected words, but it gives me x4 or x5 normal speed for text that is very well-written and well-structured. Text that is badly-structured forces me to go word-at-a-time, which I find painfully tedious.

      A well-written text in a new field, where I can speed-read and simply look up new terms when I feel like it, is wonderful. It's bliss to be able to expand my knowledge painlessly.

      Badly-written texts in new fields (where I'm encountering lots of new words and horrible sentence structure all at the same time) give me migraines. I refuse to read them unless I absolutely have to. It's a good thing I've never been on any board that decides on school textbooks, I doubt most States would be willing to hang, draw and quarter the entire publishing industry.

    6. Re:We do both by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think this is why i am not able to verbally communicate proper names from a fantasy or sci book. I don't ever do the parsing. I just assign the unknown word to a visual cache, and move on. If I ever talk about it, my pronounciation is often not even close, missing entire sounds and even syllables. When I first heard someone say "Aragorn" I had no idea who they meant, even though I'd read the books 6 times in 6 years.

    7. Re:We do both by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like the way my brain reads too, it's lazy with names or new details, I often find if I look closely at names in the books I read they're not quite what i thought.

      I'm also a pretty fast reader, and I think that's a big part of it.

    8. Re:We do both by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not just you. I too do this, especially when the names are non-standard English names. This counts both for foreign names (as you indicate) and SF/fantasy names. Actually though, one thing I try and do now is sound out Japanese (and probably French now) names, as these are languages that I'm 'learning'.

      It is a problem, as you note, if there are two similar names, and I'm not keeping track properly. I suddenly don't know whether Xarchon or Xarshin is mean to be the main character in a story...

    9. Re:We do both by inhuman_4 · · Score: 1

      I find it especially hard with Russian names. They are often long and have a lot of A,V,K in them. I remember reading Tom Clancy's Red Storm Rising as a kid, I got halfway through the book before I realized that what I thought was one guy was actually two. The names where shaped almost identically and I just read them as the same. I wonder if in Cyrillic they are different enough that this is not a problem.

    10. Re:We do both by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      expect to hear it, say it or write it later on. For this reason, when I read a name, a neologism or an unknown word that I can guess from the context, I rarely ever bother parsing it. Maybe it's just me, though.

      I do exactly this. Especially with names in books that are not generic.

      I also read by sighting words, but they get spoken in my mind instantly (or so it seems to me). so Im not sure what method my subconsious is using to translate the image into the sound in my head. Ive been trying this morning, but i cannot read without a voice in my head saying the words. but i guess thats normall, because then your not reading? whoi knows

    11. Re:We do both by Veggiesama · · Score: 1

      I found myself doing the same thing, so whenever I come across a strange-sounding place or name, I take a few moments to read over it and say the word out loud until I decide on a pronunciation. Then when I encounter the word again, I use the opportunity to practice my mental pronunciation.

      It helps if you ever have to talk to people about what you read, whether it's Harry Potter or an op-ed by Fareed Zakaria.

  12. It deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers are in by SirDrinksAlot · · Score: 0

    I really like this bit of word recognition:

    "Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteers be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe."

    http://explore.georgetown.edu/news/?ID=60788&PageTemplateID=295

  13. Makes sense by Pope · · Score: 1

    Especially for non-character based writing like Chinese.

    --
    It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
    1. Re:Makes sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think this means what you think it means.

    2. Re:Makes sense by ddxexex · · Score: 2

      Especially for non-character based writing like Chinese.

      Saying it's a non-character based language doesn't seem to be the way you want to phrase it. Most kanji have a couple of main pronunciations which you can pretty consistently figure out. The big difference from the Latin writing system and the Chinese writing system is that chinese characters also have a meaning assigned to them. (And words tend to be more compact) You can still write out things fully phonetically in Chinese Characters. But with the Harry Potter books, the translators went to some lengths to not only phonetically copy the names, but to also pick the right hanji to add additional meaning to the names. Eg Voldemort's chinese name includes the character for 'evil' in it, but still sounds similar to the english name (Fudimo).

      A detail look at the name translation can be seen here.

    3. Re:Makes sense by Balthisar · · Score: 1

      In China, it's "hanzi."

      As for phonetically spelling out every word, well, not really. You can get close approximations, but there are sounds and speech patterns in other languages that can't be written or transcribed into Chinese. The best you can do with my simple name is "Jimu" for example.

      You mentioned kanji, though, which is Japanese, and in Japan, most foreign names and other words are transliterated not in kanji, but rather in katakana. My experience is with Chinese, not Japanese, so I don't know how closely transcribed the words can become. Because katakana is all syllables, I think they must have some of the same problems as hanzi.

      --
      --Jim (me)
    4. Re:Makes sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      fail harder n00b. chinese _characters_ don't represent phonemes or morae or syllables.

  14. Additional reading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    An older /. post has more to say on the topic, specifically:

    Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht frist and lsat ltteer is at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by it slef but the wrod as a wlohe. ceehiro.

  15. I recognize a few words by rim_namor · · Score: 1

    I always recognize the word boobs.

    You type boobs in any font, it's like I have super powers.

    Boobs. B00Bs. 80085. Anything you do - I recognize it immediately.

    Don't know about other word, but that one just strikes me as very recognizable.

    1. Re:I recognize a few words by XCDBFPL · · Score: 0

      Most of that word comes in pairs, as does the subject, unless you are in a rebel bar on Mars.

  16. What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The reason we learn to sound out words is so that we can figure out new words. Phonics is a horrible way to read.

  17. Sounding out is what I do... by erroneus · · Score: 1

    ...and why I am a fairly slow reader.

    Interestingly, though, my fingers on a keyboard has become yet another form of brain-to-external-world communications. So words and meanings come out through patterns of movement in my fingers. I think "word" and the movements for "word" comes out in my fingers. The "sound" for "word" doesn't necessarily go through my brain unless I am thinking that way -- when I am more relaxed and less deliberate, words go directly from my brain to my finger movements.

    Consequently, some typos come in the form of entire words where sometimes I might write "jr;;p" instead of "hello" because the placement of my hands are off.... though most often the misalignment is on the left hand only. Other typos, however, come in the form of inconvenient word choice and even word omission. Countless times I have submitted comments here in which I thought a word and failed to type it for whatever reason... other times, whole words were substituted for others... often with opposite meanings. Very embarrassing, but I have explored the causes and my conclusions are not unlike the findings in this article.

    But you know, we have all known this at some level already. We can substitute a 1 for a lower-case L almost anywhere and people can read the word and often never notice... same is true of upper-case I and lower-case L depending on the fonts being used. So I hope this study isn't considered "new knowledge" but rather an expansion or an elaboration of what we already know because, we all kind of knew this already.

    1. Re:Sounding out is what I do... by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Most of my typos actually come down to typing several letters on one hand, and then the other hand getting too anxious when it has a letter to type and it comes in too soon. Same thing for spaces.

  18. Sruloiesy? by Zarim · · Score: 1

    I dbuot scietncestis put mcuh stcok in the torehy taht our bainrs 'sunod out' ecah wrod ecah tmie we see tehm.

  19. No sounding out by roman_mir · · Score: 1

    does anybody sound the words out in their minds ever? Serious question: do any of you actually spell the words out phonetically in your mind while reading?

    1. Re:No sounding out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it's a word I don't know.

    2. Re:No sounding out by rasmusbr · · Score: 2

      There's a faint inner voice in my head that speaks words as I read them, or write them. I would imagine that my speech circuitry would light up on a brain scan, but maybe not as strongly or extensively as when I'm listening or speaking.

      I'm a fast reader, and I read upside down pretty fast too (comes in handy from time to time), so I don't think I'm compensating for a lack of visual processing.

    3. Re:No sounding out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes — it's called dyslexia.

    4. Re:No sounding out by omnichad · · Score: 1

      I have the same problem - it keeps me from being able to speed read - though I can sometimes force my eyes to glaze over and skip the verbal processing, I feel like I'm missing something.

      If I read faster than a certain speed, I almost feel my jaw jumble up the words because it can't keep up (I don't actually move my face, but I'm sure that part of my brain lights up). No problem reading upside down or mirrored, but reading faster than I can talk just is very difficult to do.

  20. Weird. by DangerOnTheRanger · · Score: 0

    I always wondered if other people read like this. Often, I read multiple paragraphs of, say, a news article before a fellow family member has read a sentence. Consequently, I seem to forget the content of what I read more often (as other ./-ers have stated), but hey, at least I read faster. :)

  21. Old News by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm pretty sure we've known this for many decades.

    from nearly 10 years ago (with research back another 20)
    http://www.eyemagazine.com/opinion.php?id=110&oid=265

  22. Stupid Article is Stupid by vux984 · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's already been well established that at least many people read this way.

    Its common knowledge that most people can read normal (lower) case text faster than upper case text. And it has long been surmised that its due to the much better word shape diversity of lower case.

    Its also common knowledge that most people can read jumbled up words with very little difficulty, as long as the first and last letters are correct, and the rest of the letters are in there in a random order.

    Such as:

    "I cnduo't bvleiee taht I culod aulaclty uesdtannrd waht I was rdnaieg. Unisg the icndeblire pweor of the hmuan mnid, aocdcrnig to rseecrah at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mttaer in waht oderr the lterets in a wrod are, the olny irpoamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rhgit pclae."

    Given the number of people who can read the above almost effortlessly, anyone clinging to the theory that fast readers are "sounding words out" needs to be clubbed over the head with a baseball bat.

    It also rebuts the premise of the article that we read by word shape. Its clearly a bit more complicated than that.

    I expect we simultaneously look at word shape, the leading and closing letters, the length, and the middle letters along with some "predictive" matching based on context cues so we can narrow down likely candidate words that "fit" the sentence.

    1. Re:Stupid Article is Stupid by MozeeToby · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What's important is that this is finally becoming established fact. Hooked on Phonics (and its sibling programs used the nation over for the past 20 years) produced a load of kids (in my generation specifically) who could barely read aloud at half their speaking pace. Phonics is an important skill for anyone who is literate but we have dedicated hundreds of hours of education time to it when at least some of that time should have been going to sight based reading. It isn't the difference between fast and slow readers, it's the difference between being able to read, and being able to read and comprehend while you do so.

      Incidentally, your scrambled words example is a great way to show that word shape is very important, more important than just "the first and last letters". Look at the believe. Scrambled as it is in your example the word shape is identical (bvleiee) but if you scramble it in a way that moves the tall 'l' around it's much harder to read (beivele). The text that went around the internet that you are quoting from is very carefully constructed to be as easy to read as possible. actually becomes aulaclty, according becomes aocdcrnig. There are other tricks used also, making sure that the trickier to decode words have lots of context, preserving multi-letter characters, preserving important syllables, etc. It's a neat piece of brain hacking, but it isn't quite what it's made out to be.
                           

    2. Re:Stupid Article is Stupid by vux984 · · Score: 2

      Incidentally, your scrambled words example is a great way to show that word shape is very important, more important than just "the first and last letters".

      Oh I agree shape is very important, and yes, that text was careful to preserve shape.

      But its clearly more than -just- shape, because if you preserve the shape but start replacing those inner letters with other similiarly shapped letters it breaks down.

      Shape is just a filter used to narrow it down to candidate words. Inner letters flters it down further. Order of inner letters pins it down... but it turns out shape and inner letters filters it down good enough that we don't actually rely on order of inner letters provided shape is right, and the inner letters are present.

    3. Re:Stupid Article is Stupid by MozeeToby · · Score: 1

      Shape is just a filter used to narrow it down to candidate words. Inner letters flters it down further. Order of inner letters pins it down...

      Not disagreeing with you in the slightest, that's exactly what I was trying to get at. I just wanted to say this: The human brain, if freaking amazing. When reading full speed, you perform that analysis 2-5 times per second, filtering and filtering and filtering further to pull meaning out of the written word. This isn't even directly a skill that our brains were evolved for, it's an extreme application of our basic pattern matching algorithms. When you stop to think about it, it's absolutely insane.

    4. Re:Stupid Article is Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its common knowledge

      Firstly it's "it's" not "its".

      Secondly, science, especially psychology and other related sciences, needs to retest hypotheses in order to confirm at a later date that it *continues to be true*. If we all sat around saying "so and so experimented and found this result so let's not test it later", then we'd all be stuck in the dark ages. *Especially* in the realm of understanding exactly how humans work.

      Yes, understandably it seems that quick readers are doing otherwise than 'sounding it out', but just because you can logically determine that something is so or not so, unless some form of experimentation takes place, you can and quite possibly will be completely and utterly wrong. In the long gone days of yore, logically, the Earth was flat since we did not fall off the world and things do not fall off flat things. Logically, the world was the center of the universe since everything revolved around us. Logically, lightning was the punishment of the gods upon monstrous sinners given how rarely it occurs. And so on and so forth.

      By snidely remarking that scientists should *not* test established hypothesis and instead saying they should be "clubbed over the head with a baseball bat" you are furthering an idea that science 'already knows' something.

      Science does not. We're *reasonably certain* about things. We don't *know* anything. The people that go through the incredibly dull work of traversing the pathways which we already have walked should be respected just as much as those who blaze new pathways in the frontier. There is always the possibility that everything we've ever found out about the universe is fundamentally wrong.

      TLDR (how humorous it is to use this in a response on an article about reading): Science could be fundamentally be wrong about everything. Everything old is new again. Re-testing old things is just as good as testing new things.

    5. Re:Stupid Article is Stupid by Kelson · · Score: 1

      Phonics is critical for being able to pick up new words, though. If you can *only* read by recognizing the shapes of words you already know, you can't learn new words on your own. You have to rely on what's taught to you.

    6. Re:Stupid Article is Stupid by genghisjahn · · Score: 1

      Bxt yxu sxxxl kxxw wxxt I'm wxxxxxg. Oxxy txe fxxxxt axd lxxt lxxxxxs mxxxxr.

      --
      Sorry about the mess.
    7. Re:Stupid Article is Stupid by ulski · · Score: 1

      A year ago or so, I read an article about a study that showed that danish people tend to speak more words per minute than swedes and norwegians do. It was a Scandinavian study, and Scandinavian languages are closely related to each other are therefore comparable. Reading this /. story I wonder if reading speed is related to the language, and to how distinct word patterns/symbols/ alphabet are in the language (similar to your upper/lower case comment). To summarize - do a native English reader read faster than say a native Chinese reader?

    8. Re:Stupid Article is Stupid by JStyle · · Score: 1

      I figured it out, but that takes a fair bit of extra time.

    9. Re:Stupid Article is Stupid by smellsofbikes · · Score: 1

      I expect we simultaneously look at word shape, the leading and closing letters, the length, and the middle letters along with some "predictive" matching based on context cues so we can narrow down likely candidate words that "fit" the sentence.

      We appear to do a lot more recognition of the first letter than the last: it's extremely easy to think of five words beginning with 'p' but significantly harder to think of five words ending in 'p'. I've seen research saying we're roughly 5 times faster at first than last (but waaaaay faster at last than at second-to-last.)

      --
      Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
    10. Re:Stupid Article is Stupid by Headw1nd · · Score: 2

      Man, if you're wxxxxxg, I don't want to hear about it.

    11. Re:Stupid Article is Stupid by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Man, if you're wxxxxxg, I don't want to hear about it.

      He's waxing?

      I dont really want to hear about it either but you know, his personal grooming techniques are no concern of mine.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    12. Re:Stupid Article is Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This isn't really true, though, because phonics isn't enough to ‘teach you’ a new word. Lots of times, a new English word I'm reading will have an irregular pronunciation (usually taken from the actual language of origin of the word). I try to infer the meaning of the word (and it's pronunciation) by guessing the language of origin, and analyzing the concept-parts (not phoneme-parts) of the word. If that doesn't work, I have to look it up – and how is that any different from what a pure by-sight reader would have to do?

      Phonics can't tell you anything except how (some) words are pronounced. In what sense does it really teach you a word? It can only teach you to make the association between some string of letters and a word whose sounds you've already heard. In that case, I would argue that you already knew the word, and just not the spelling.

    13. Re:Stupid Article is Stupid by vux984 · · Score: 1

      By snidely remarking that scientists should *not* test established hypothesis and instead saying they should be "clubbed over the head with a baseball bat" you are furthering an idea that science 'already knows' something.

      The issue I have is the article itself, not the scientific method. If scientists want to test or re-test something to validate a previous claim or to see if something thought to hold still holds that's fine.

      But don't write an article suggesting it was anything more than a validation of an already widely believed and previously tested hypothesis.

      The sarcasm and disdain comes from the "Scientists claim water is wet; this idea rebuts theory that water just looks wet but is actually scaly like a lizard" aspect of this article. Its not a new or even controversial claim, so couch it as a validation of what a lot of people already thought, rather than choosing phrasing that these scientists have boldly gone into uncharted territory; or suggesting that their results challenge a widely held theory.

      Nobody thinks water is dry and scaly so "rebutting that theory" is of no noteworthiness; just as nobody really thinks speed readers sound out all the words when they read.

  23. Hmm. No wonder All-Caps is harder to read... by arthurh3535 · · Score: 2

    ...and forces you to consider the matter more in depth. It breaks the normal shape of words and sentences.

    --
    No! It's a *SIG*. Keep the Special Interest Groups away! (Con joke!)
    1. Re:Hmm. No wonder All-Caps is harder to read... by Dan+East · · Score: 1

      I've always argued this point as well. With proper mixed-case you vastly increase the visual diversity of the words, which makes one word look less like another (all the ascenders and descenders in lower case letters, for example). But most of all, it's simply a matter of what we are used to reading most, which is NOT all caps. The visual recognition of mixed case words should be fastest because that is what our brains are most used to.

      --
      Better known as 318230.
    2. Re:Hmm. No wonder All-Caps is harder to read... by HyperQuantum · · Score: 1

      That's one of the main reasons why I detest reading EULAs. Next to the difficult (lawyer) language and the absolute boringness of the text, of course.

      --
      I am not really here right now.
  24. only first and last letter matter by stating_the_obvious · · Score: 0, Redundant

    According to a raseerch at Caibrmdge Unviersity, it deosn't mettar in waht oedrr the letetrs in a wrod are. The olny imaortpnt thnig is taht the fisrt and lsat letetr be in the rgiht plcae.

    The rset can be a ttoal mses and you can sitll raed it wiohtut peoblrm. Tihs is bucaese the hmuan mnid deos not raed erevy letter by itslef, but the wrod as a whloe.

    http://www.snopes.com/language/apocryph/cambridge.asp

    1. Re:only first and last letter matter by wzzzzrd · · Score: 1

      Only when the words are often used and thus are present.

      lohmtashupya.

      Words need to be present to the mind in a way that routes through the word written above. Spoken American English is a "do make go what is" language, which makes this style of reading work. In German this would be a problem, at least for casual readers: much bigger vocabulary, especially concerning expressions, verbs and loan terms (translated into American English: "more words"). You can counteract this by just reading more so that more vocabulary gets learned, but you also have to read more often to keep it present.

      So this method will work, if you read enough and often enough to be able to see words as Lego bricks and guess. The more you read, the better the guesses will become. It's hypothalamus by the way. Try reading one type of literature for weeks (like books about programming languages), and you will be able to tell the meaning of a sentence just from the first word and the shape of the sentence. Same technique used by the brain, just a different abstraction.

      Try talking to the same person every day, and you will be able to tell the meaning of an argument just by the first sound and the facial expression (visit hell, get married). Our mind just loves to abstract as soon as possible even at a relatively high risk of failure. Film at 11.

      --
      On second thought, let's not go to Camelot. It is a silly place.
  25. Road signs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    When the British decided to implement their current system of road direction signs, they switched from all-caps to mixed-case precisely for this reason: people remember the general shapes of words and the positioning of ascenders and descenders, thus people found it far easier to distinguish, say, "Brighton" than "BRIGHTON". This was many decades ago - how is this news?

    1. Re:Road signs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How sophisticated of them. But the Brits still haven't noticed, that they put all their new-fangled signs on the WRONG side of the road! :-P

  26. Old news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've previously been rather bemused by people complaining about old news, but now i understand.

  27. This is anything but a new theory. by coldfarnorth · · Score: 4, Informative

    Microsoft, of all places, has a pretty good webpage on this.

    Check out the "Model 1: Word Shape" section, in which this theory is described as "oldest model in the psychological literature, and is likely much older than the psychological literature"

    There's some other interesting sections there too, like the moving window study.

    --
    Lets start refering to The War Against Terror by it's initials. . .
    1. Re:This is anything but a new theory. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are actually claiming something that is readily proven false by many people in the HMI field. An example of the visual queues can be seen with the Stroop Test (http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/words.html). When a person reads one topic while listening to another, however, task overloading occurs. People can do this with practice, but usually need to read a little and then listen a little and do both more slowly than if they could concentrate on one alone (and it is not a 2x situation).

    2. Re:This is anything but a new theory. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In my "Introductory Psychology" course at Purdue in 2003, the prof placed on the overhead projector a paragraph of text with a significant amount of letters jumbled, specifically in the middle of words, if I recall correctly. I think her point was that by knowing the first letters, last letters and rough length, our brains automatically figure out the words (and, of course, we've got context within the sentence / overall body of text to work with, too).

      So, it's nearly 2012. Why is this news?

  28. Re:It deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers are by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This was proven false a number of years ago, by a college in western Canada as I recall. If the order of the internal letters are reversed, it becomes impossible to read without deciphering each word.
    Exercise for the student.

  29. I've do this...sometimes by Shotgun · · Score: 1

    I often read street signs at night, making out the word before the letters are truly readable, so obviously I'm not actually "reading" in the sense that I'm recognizing individual letters. But normally is sound out the individual words in my head. I'm a slow reader, and that is a hindrance in the computer industry (plus, I miss the enjoyment of reading a lot of books, because it just takes to long).

    Could I read faster if I could somehow train myself to do this word recognition thing?

    --
    Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
    Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
  30. Anecdote time by Colonel+Korn · · Score: 2

    I frequently don't have to read words directly because I can detect them through peripheral vision and context.

    Perhaps related to this, I frequently get distracted while reading but keep going, understanding the meaning of the language but not becoming aware of the individual words.

    --
    "I zero-index my hamsters" - Willtor (147206)
  31. People doing text layout have known this for years by Quila · · Score: 2

    For the exact same reason.

  32. Personal Experience With This by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This comes as no surprise to me. I'm an American learning Swedish, but nearly all of my learning is done at the computer. I hang out in IRC channels, read Swedish news sites, etc. I rarely watch videos or listen to radio. As a result, I can read and write Swedish quite well but am completely incapable of speaking or understanding spoken Swedish. I've been accused of abusing Google Translate to read/write because so few people believe I'm capable of understanding the written language as well as I can while struggling to comprehend even the simplest spoken phrases. I meet Swedish people on chat rooms and forums all the time, so I get plenty of practice with reading and writing. It's not so easy finding someone to practice the spoken language with while living in Kansas.

  33. Font choices... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This finding would indicate that careful font selection could make a significant difference to reading speed.

  34. The funny thing is by Quila · · Score: 4, Funny

    As I read, I read to myself in my head, not sounding out letters, but the words as I go. Whenever I see this example of transposition, that voice in my head starts to sound like it has Down syndrome.

    1. Re:The funny thing is by hoggoth · · Score: 1

      Wloud you lkie fires wtih taht?

      --
      - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
    2. Re:The funny thing is by dward90 · · Score: 1

      While not politically correct, I find this to be an absolutely true phenomenon.

      --
      My other sig is clever.
    3. Re:The funny thing is by mjwx · · Score: 1

      As I read, I read to myself in my head, not sounding out letters, but the words as I go. Whenever I see this example of transposition, that voice in my head starts to sound like it has Down syndrome.

      You learn to recognise words by shapes, it's not prefect, but context is oslo used by your brain to tell you what the word said. We read entire sentences, not just words.

      However I stop on words I've never encountered before, normally non-english or names. Sometimes I try to sound these out in my head but often enough I have to vocalise them especially Spanish, Asian words are the worst for me as the spelling is never how it's pronounced in real life. I.E. a few Thai words (English spelling = English pronunciation), Parn = Pam, Porn = Pon, Suvarnabhumi = Sue-wan-na-poom

      that voice in my head starts to sound like it has Down syndrome.

      Mine sounds like a clown and he's very,. very angry all the time.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    4. Re:The funny thing is by inhuman_4 · · Score: 1

      I agree. When I read stuff like that the voice in my head goes funny, but Down Syndrome is probably the best description I can think of.

      I wonder if this has any relation to people who actually have Down Syndrome. Is it possible that they experience the world the way we experience jumbled sentences?

  35. 30 seconds per page, what's the big deal? by lkcl · · Score: 1

    it's called skim-reading. i read a 300-page novel in about 2 hours, but that's a leisurely pace, for me. i can do 3 lines at a time if i want, just read the first words, jump several and diagonally down, hit the end of the 3rd line, repeat. eyes spot paragraph beginnings and ends and focus on those: this is standard stuff if you've ever read tony buzan's books, what's the big deal? i don't recall - ever - my lips moving, or there being any "sounds" occurring in my bwwaiiiin. yes there's a sort-of delay between words coming in and getting through but, isn't that normal?

    6 months later i'll come back, read and enjoy the same book again, and find very occasionally that i missed something. perhaps i shouldn't ask, but how does everyone else "read"?

    1. Re:30 seconds per page, what's the big deal? by dward90 · · Score: 2

      I'm an auditory person. I mentally "hear" every word as if someone is speaking. It happens more quickly than people are generally capable of speaking, but I still run the mental auditory pathway for every word. It's simply how I'm accustomed to processing written text, and how I remember that text most easily. Coincidentally, it also means that I often can't remember if read a piece of information or heard it in an audio file or video.

      --
      My other sig is clever.
    2. Re:30 seconds per page, what's the big deal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, I read at the same page rate you do, except I actually read every word - I don't skim. If I skim-read like you did, I could probably read a 300 page novel in about 20 minutes.

    3. Re:30 seconds per page, what's the big deal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      perhaps i shouldn't ask, but how does everyone else "read"?

      By reading *all* the words. You're not reading a novel to collect facts or tidbits, you're reading for the experience. Speed-reading fiction is like taking a tour of Africa by buzzing the Serengeti in a Learjet.

    4. Re:30 seconds per page, what's the big deal? by a+whoabot · · Score: 1

      Why not ask? For me, parsing is essential to reading, and parsing is done by looking at each word individually and assigning to each a grammatical function in relation to the other words.

      I'm not entirely sure how skim-reading relates to this. I've never really noticed a difference in kind in how I read. The only thing in my experience with which I can identify skim-reading would be reading particularly fast. Reading in such a way is still basically the same as to reading not so fast, in my experience, but perhaps more error-prone.

    5. Re:30 seconds per page, what's the big deal? by godrik · · Score: 1

      It depends what I read and why I read it. If I want some high level factual description it is pretty much what I do. If I want to really read a book and immerse myself in the book, I read around 1 page per minute to .7 page per minute.
      when reading something technical, reading is not the bottleneck.

    6. Re:30 seconds per page, what's the big deal? by Neil+Boekend · · Score: 1

      My lips tend to move when speed reading. I spell out the absolute gist and some conclusions "No, no, no, yes" as in "this is not what I am looking for, this neither, nope isn't it, yes this is it"
      I never speed-read novels because it's more fun to really read them.

      --
      Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
  36. This is over simplistic... by Genda · · Score: 1

    There are multiple cognitive structures used in reading. There are all kinds of experiments where people can read perfectly well with letters removed from words and/or words with their letter order jumbled. This proves that word shape though probably necessary in speed reading is only one layer on many layers of cognitive infrastructure used in the process of reading as a whole.

  37. This result was expected, based on past studies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    FYI: This "shape recognition" mechanism had been suspected for quite a long time -- ever since it was shown years ago that people can read lowercase faster and more accurately than uppercase. (Lowercase letters have more variation in shape because of ascenders and descenders.)

    The only time I sound out words is when shape fails me. For example, I have trouble telling the difference between "marital" and "martial". The shape difference is too subtle for my eye, and I have to fall back to sounding them out.

  38. Deaf People Knew This Long Ago by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They do not "sound out" words. They allegedly read much faster as a result because the words are just symbols and aren't slowed by the corresponding auditory pace.

  39. Rebuts the theory? Not! by macraig · · Score: 1

    The visual dictionary idea rebuts the theory that our brain 'sounds out' words each time we see them.

    No, it most certainly DOES NOT rebut that theory, for two reasons:

    (1) Homo sapiens is not a homogenous species; there are mutations - including neurological ones - and divergent evolutionary paths being explored with every single new birth; and

    (2) I am living fucking proof that at least some humans have brains that do in fact sound out words, and quite literally so.

    In order to communicate with a written language, I am forced to subvocalize - literally hear the words in my head - every bit of text that I read as well as write. What's more, I am unable to listen to any other spoken words while I am involved in this subvocalization process. This was quite destructive especially during schooling, since I was unable to take notes in class, and even recording lectures for later transcription was impractical.

    My best theory, lacking the results of an fMRI experiment to prove it, is that this subvocalization is actually re-purposing the auditory processing center for written language, and in doing so makes it temporarily unavailable for its original purpose.

    So, the genius who thinks the tinkering of these neuroscientists disproves the existence of alternative language processing methods is not so bright after all. I welcome that fMRI experiment to rebut the rebuttal.

  40. Re:It deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers are by nirgle · · Score: 1

    Yeah, it has nothing to do with the fact that by the 100th time this is reposted you already know what it says and speed-read it anyway and enjoy a nice dose of coaifrnimton bais.

  41. Motorway Signs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This was known about in Britain in the late 50s, when signs were being designed for Britain's first motorways. Given the high speed cars would be travelling at, the signs had to be quick and easy to read. The designers chose to use mixed case as they knew people recognise words by shape (which was a major change from the existing practice of using all capitals on road signs).

  42. duh by amoeba1911 · · Score: 2

    We do go by pictures of the words instead of trying to read each letter of the word.

    1. Something written using the words you know but different spelling?
    dis iz nut sum tin hue kan reed faast bee coz you arr juss nut uzed to sea ying eet liek dat.

    2. How about some capitalization to make things hard to read?
    tHiS sEntEnCe iS gOiNg To bE hArdEr tO REaD bEcAuSe yOu cAN't rEcOGNiZE tHe wOrDS aS eAsILY.

    3. how about some number replacements?
    Y0U C4N R34D TH1S TEXT W1TH0UT TO0 MUCH PR0BL3M 8EC4USE 1T 1S L337-5P33K.

    I think for general population, the first example is going to be hardest to read because the words make the familiar sounds but they're not in the right shape. If you go phonetically alone, that should have been easy read. I would think the third example is going to be easiest to read for most people, the words look familiar even though they clearly have numbers instead of some of the letters.

    1. Re:duh by polymeris · · Score: 2

      To mc, it's eccn mcre iccprcccve thct pccple ccn rccd scntccccs like this one, rccccctructing mcst of the lcst infcrmcticn withcct mcch effcrt.

    2. Re:duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think for general population, the first example is going to be hardest to read because the words make the familiar sounds but they're not in the right shape. If you go phonetically alone, that should have been easy read. I would think the third example is going to be easiest to read for most people, the words look familiar even though they clearly have numbers instead of some of the letters.

      In order of hardest (slowest also) to easiest for me:
      1,2,3

    3. Re:duh by terminallyCapricious · · Score: 0

      tHiS sEntEnCe iS gOiNg To bE hArdEr tO REaD bEcAuSe yOu cAN't rEcOGNiZE tHe wOrDS aS eAsILY.

      wHaT iS uUuUuP mY iNvErTeBrOtHeR?

    4. Re:duh by gknoy · · Score: 1

      dis iz nut sum tin hue kan reed faast bee coz you arr juss nut uzed to sea ying eet liek dat.
      tHiS sEntEnCe iS gOiNg To bE hArdEr tO REaD bEcAuSe yOu cAN't rEcOGNiZE tHe wOrDS aS eAsILY.

      I found the second one much easier to read -- the former I have to actually sound them out to try and figure out what the heck the letter groups are meant to represent. Even the l33t-speak version was easier to read that the first.

  43. Straw man. by Greg+Merchan · · Score: 1

    I don't know that anyone has ever held a "theory that our brain 'sounds out' words each time we see them".

  44. Context and capitals by tepples · · Score: 1
    I can see three other reasons:
    • Some words appear with an initial capital more often than other words; "skilled" and "readers" rarely do.
    • The brain uses context from surrounding particles, which isn't as plentiful in such a short headline. The "to a" in "Aoccdrnig to a" helps the brain look up "according" more quickly.
    • If a letter moves all the way from one side of a word's interior to the other ("Seklild"), it might not get decoded as fast. In fact, my brain saw "Seklild" and thought Selkie.
  45. Forming my response by banda · · Score: 1

    The study's authors are now busy memorizing the shape of the word "Duh."

  46. Press release about a tiny study? by mwehle · · Score: 1

    The link is to a press release announcing study results. Reading the press release we learn the study was of 12 volunteers. I find it difficult to get too interested in a communications office news release about research on so small a scale.

    --
    Wir sind geboren, um frei zu sein - Rio Reiser
  47. Good job by BitZtream · · Score: 1

    Oprah had a guy on TV so long ago that I can't remember who said this very thing ... he was some super speed reader guy.

    How do I get paid to 'research' things people already know? I'm jealous

    --
    Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    1. Re:Good job by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 1

      How do I get paid to 'research' things people already know?

      Apply for grants to validate anecdotal evidence. Explain in the grant application why this work has value outside the immediate validation (harder than it looks) and be sure to put an interesting spin on things. Oh yeah... have a PhD (or be associated with one) before you go up against the big boys for the money, too (the feds like to see that work actually can be done by the people they hand it to).

      --
      That is all.
  48. This has been known for a very long time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have known this for over 30 years, it was explained to me to show why ALL CAPS was very hard to read, since the brain can not recognize the shape of the word, it has to read it letter by letter.

  49. Obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anyone who needs reading glasses because of age already knows this. As my eyes got worse I could still recognize words where I could not read all the letters just by seeing the first letter, last letter and the shape. Convenient when I forgot my glasses and tried to read a menu.

  50. The Converse: Typing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I find that the converse is true for me when it comes to typing. For example, when I type some words, my mind doesn't think of each letter separately, but instead, my fingers blast out the correct motions on the keyboard and the correct word appears.

  51. taking it further by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    we use procedures where I work, many times i'm doing something i've done a hundred times before. I recognize what the step is by the shape of the paragraph or wording on the page.....

  52. speed reading by bussdriver · · Score: 1

    anybody who trained in speed reading knows the goal is training your brain to recognize words, phrases and whole lines at an instant-- it is far more like recognizing an icon or doing huge numbers of complex flash cards --- more seeing the forest than it is bothering with the trees. (and misspellings may cause one to focus on a word because it stands out or it may go completely unnoticed because its close enough-- since image recognition of the brain is fuzzy and tolerant by nature.)

    These games with text work best if you can maintain the visual recognition level and I suspect somebody somewhere is working on the aspects of this recognition process to decide what shapes are noticed how the brain spots such shapes despite differing fonts and sizes etc. Its not a literal photo matching process as the text games illustrate because the word can look visually quite different with the letters shifted slightly. More research will happen (if we fund it.)

  53. Yep, by Quila · · Score: 1

    I can read it perfectly, but the manner of speech changed.

  54. this is cornptetely olvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    this shouid be cornptetely olvious to evenyone!

  55. Old Story by RazorSharp · · Score: 1

    I read this on a bottle of Vitamin Water where they change the order of the letters and only keep the first and last ones correct.

    --
    "From the depths of my skeptical and rationalist soul, I ask the Lord to protect me from California touchie-feeliedom."
  56. my observations about this by joshuaf · · Score: 1

    I've noticed this since about third grade. I can read faster (by a lot usually) than pretty much everybody I ever encounter. However, if I'm reading a book and two or more characters have names that "look" like each other, it seriously messes me up. That and spelling was very difficult before spell checkers came about. I can tell that something is spelled wrong because it looks off, but can't sound out how to actually spell it. Also, reading out loud was VERY painful for me all through school and even now I avoid it at all costs. So reading quickly came with a few downsides. It's still awesome to blow through pretty large books in less than a day though.

  57. There are exceptions by Quila · · Score: 1

    Maybe, I haven't extensively tested it. But I tried the upper/lower test on a friend whose first written language was Arabic, but he's been fluent in English for about 30 years, starting as a teenager. He found all upper and mixed case equally easy to read.

    It's probably how we were raised.

    1. Re:There are exceptions by vux984 · · Score: 1

      Maybe, I haven't extensively tested it.

      How did you test it?

      Try, say, 5 pages of prose. And then time it. I also find reading uppercase that long fairly exhausting compared to proper cased text.

    2. Re:There are exceptions by Quila · · Score: 1

      I explained the concept, he said it didn't make sense. I took a sentence, then turned a copy all caps and had him read both. Neither of us saw a difference in his reading speed.

  58. Hybrid Approach by Millennium · · Score: 1

    This study doesn't so much rebut phonics -long proven as an effective method of teaching literacy in most scripts- as much as it shows that phonics is only the baseline: what people fall back on when more advanced heuristics (like shape recognition) fail. And fail they do, from time to time: that's just the nature of heuristics. They work often enough to provide appreciable speed boosts -even huge ones- but fail often enough that you can't completely discard slower methods.

    What this study suggests to me is that while having a solid grasp of phonics is a major milestone in literacy training, it should not be the end of said training (as it often is). Rather, once the students can walk, it is time to teach them to run: I don't know how you'd teach shape recognition, for example, but this is something that might have use as an advanced reading technique.

    It is, however, still important not to try teaching the students to run before they can walk. The various attempts to replace phonics in the last few decades have ended in dismal failure, and they failed for a reason. That doesn't make phonics the be-all and end-all, but it remains the best foundation skill for reading yet devised.

  59. I don't by MagicM · · Score: 5, Funny

    read subjects.

    1. Re:I don't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah get that dailykosism out of here. dailykos is usually even stupider about science and technology than slashdot.

  60. This has been known for a long time by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 2

    This result seems fairly obvious to anyone who has looked at typography. It explains a lot of the rules of thumb used in font design. For example, one of the characteristics of a legible font is that ascenders and descenders are neither too-long nor too-short. Character shapes that are too-expanded or too-condensed or just weird are bad, too. These characteristics probably screw up the shape too much. Same with line spacing. Too narrow makes it hard to see the word shape on either line easily.

    --
    That is all.
  61. Re:Rebuts the theory? Not! by Twinbee · · Score: 1

    Interesting, but surely you're in the minority here? Not many people will do that.

    --
    Why OpalCalc is the best Windows calc
  62. Re:Rebuts the theory? Not! by dward90 · · Score: 1

    I subvocalize exactly like you do. However, I think the distinction made by the article may be less than what you're asserting. Even though I hear words in my head, I *don't* process letters or syllables within a given word. I read an entire word at a time, recognize that word, and then hear it. The individual letters and syllables never play a role unless the word isn't familiar. I still recognize words based on shape; I just do so one word at a time and with an internal vocalization.

    --
    My other sig is clever.
  63. Re:Rebuts the theory? Not! by wolfemi1 · · Score: 1

    Interesting. FYI, I don't think anyone can really take notes and listen at the same time, what happens for me is that I keep half-listening to a lecture while I'm writing. There is definitely some context-switching that goes on, and lots of what is said is lost, but I tend to "trigger" listening when something interesting or unusual is said.

  64. Duh? by pclminion · · Score: 2

    Reading words by sounding them out is like adding numbers by counting on your fingers. It's how a novice does it. If people read by sounding words, how would those who are born deaf ever learn to do it? I figured this was obvious, but apparently it isn't.

    1. Re:Duh? by polymeris · · Score: 1

      Yeah! I thcught this wos a prctty wcll kncwn pbcnomcncn.

  65. obviously by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That is why bad spelling is so hard to read

  66. In Related News, by idontgno · · Score: 1

    Recent press release from Georgetown University Medical Center's Laboratory for Computational Cognitive Neurosciences announces breakthrough scientific discovery: a statistically significant majority of neuroscientists have no familiarity with Hanzi, Kanji, and other ideographic written languages used by over a third of Earth's current population.

    --
    Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
  67. Z-order curve idea by Twinbee · · Score: 2

    Newspapers use thin columns so our eyes don't need to move much. Books and the web could benefit from this approach.

    I wonder if the logical conclusion of this is to format words/letters into a Hilbert or Z-order fractal curve like this:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z-order_curve

    This optimizes the locality of the words, and reduces our eye movement to a minimum. At least in theory...

    --
    Why OpalCalc is the best Windows calc
  68. Re:Rebuts the theory? Not! by macraig · · Score: 1

    What if the visual pattern recognition is actually happening all or in part in the auditory processing center? We think we're "hearing" the words, but what if that isn't what's happening? Ever hear of synesthesia?

  69. do you remember how you learned to read? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The same way. You were taught to read letter by letter, but you were jumping ahead and guessing the whole word before you've red all letters. Glad they noticed everybody is still doing it. Experts in AI can prove the order only complicates things.

  70. Wut? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The news for me is that there are people who don't read like that. How else do you recognize a street name on a faraway sign before you can actually make out the letters?

  71. Re:Rebuts the theory? Not! by macraig · · Score: 1

    I couldn't/can't even half-listen; it's so all-or-nothing it's maddening. Well, at least when I'm faced with the need to attempt it. The rest of the time I'm fine with it, even though it also guarantees I read slower than everyone else. I'm also a wicked proofreader and likely have a superior vocabulary because of it. Yin and Yang....

  72. I do this... by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

    ...although it might be because I have trouble reading at a distance unless I stay off the computers for a few days.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  73. Re:Rebuts the theory? Not! by macraig · · Score: 1

    Minority or not, I'm evidence that the rebuttal... isn't.

  74. Don't forget word shape by davidwr · · Score: 1

    The first-last shape thing works well as long as the overall "word shape" remains unchanged.

    The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog.

    Compare this:

    Tbe qaiok bnamn fax janqs ouar tbe loxy dag.

    To this:

    Tie qbdlk bhtdn fyx jglys ojbr txe lyjy dbg.

    The difference?

    The first one substitutes like-for like shaped letters - b for h and no-ascender/no-descender letters for the rest. The second line does the opposite.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  75. that does not make sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    That does not make sense. You say she's better off because "she can speed up". In reality she can only read faster by ignoring parts of the input (what you call "not essential"), which besides making the two processes not comparable, it also requires her making assumptions on the fly about those parts before getting to read them. This can - and often does - result in reading comprehension issues with all but the simplest material. These "inessential" parts are often skipped when her mind's made up and she's convinced she already "got it", for example as in a conversation where she'd have the reply on its way out way before you're done talking.

    You however are in a bad position. If you try to sound words out, you'll slow down

    To begin with, he has no need to sound words out, therefore it is not relevant how much he'd slow down had he tried to. So whether this is a "bad position" is an entirely academic issue at this point, since no real life scenario actually involves your premise.

    1. Re:that does not make sense by martin-boundary · · Score: 1

      That does not make sense. You say she's better off because "she can speed up". In reality she can only read faster by ignoring parts of the input (what you call "not essential"), which besides making the two processes not comparable, it also requires her making assumptions on the fly about those parts before getting to read them.

      On the contrary, the two processes are directly comparable. The reason is that human language is not context free. Previous sentences tend to indicate what comes next. That's the key to allowing optimization.

      In both cases, the text being read is processed linearly in a single pass. The difference is that in the first case all sentences are evenly processed, while in the second case the reader maintains a better current model of the content to optimize the processing - by skipping parts that are uninteresting or have low value.

      To compare the two methods you look at the full process after the text has been read. In the first case, all sentences were read and the mind only decides at the end what among the content is worth retaining or making use of in the future. In the second case, the choice occurs "on-line".

      To give a simple analogy with HTML/XML. In the first case, you read and parse the full DOM of a webpage, and then decide you need to extract some URLs or text nodes in some subset of the web page. In the second case, you parse the webpage on the fly skipping the bits you are sure won't be of interest, and being careful (slowing down) with nodes of potential interest. The analogy isn't great because computer languages are generally context free, but I think the gist is true.

      This can - and often does - result in reading comprehension issues with all but the simplest material. These "inessential" parts are often skipped when her mind's made up and she's convinced she already "got it", for example as in a conversation where she'd have the reply on its way out way before you're done talking.

      Comprehension issues occur in both cases, it's only whether they happen during or at the end of the read. However, my point is that by sounding out, her comprehension level is assisted during the read, so she has better available intelligence to choose what to skip, compared with the alternative of visual only recognition.

      To begin with, he has no need to sound words out, therefore it is not relevant how much he'd slow down had he tried to.

      This is only relevant if he tries the online processing trick described above. If he wants to, he can skip parts of the text on the fly with purely visual recognition, but all things being equal (assuming equal brain capacity etc) he'll make more mistakes than her. Reducing those mistakes by sounding out the words would have an immediate slowdown penalty.

    2. Re:that does not make sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I disagree.
      Communication does contain redundant elements, but those elements are not entirely functionless: they ensure the message is received properly. Skipping the redundant parts, even assuming it is done correctly, leaves the reader with no other cues about the correctness of the message, much like removing error correction from other types of data transmission would. When done incorrectly, which I argue is happening more often than not, it can result in a misinterpreted message.

      The difference is that in the first case all sentences are evenly processed, while in the second case the reader maintains a better current model of the content to optimize the processing - by skipping parts that are uninteresting or have low value.

      One, you do not know that the second reader maintains a better model. That is your assumption.
      Second, since the parts are skipped before they are read, it is impossible to know they have low value. The reader could have skipped important parts simply because she thought they're uninteresting, or because of the way the writing was organized.

      To compare the two methods you look at the full process after the text has been read. In the first case, all sentences were read and the mind only decides at the end what among the content is worth retaining or making use of in the future. In the second case, the choice occurs "on-line".

      That is another unfounded assumption. There is no reason at all why things would happen the way you describe.

      by sounding out, her comprehension level is assisted during the read, so she has better available intelligence to choose what to skip, compared with the alternative of visual only recognition.

      This is like saying that using a cane to help one's weak legs makes for better walking.

      As an aside, I am not sure why you assume that reading whole words somehow reduces one's ability to skip words, should one choose to do so.

    3. Re:that does not make sense by martin-boundary · · Score: 1

      Communication does contain redundant elements, but those elements are not entirely functionless

      I am not talking about function, but about value and purpose to the reader. Your focus on message integrity doesn't allow comparison between disparate reading methods, except trivially by measuring total retention rate in the reader.

      My point is that reading a text always a purpose. The purpose could be pure enjoyment of course, but more often it is to extract some kind of information. To compare reading methods is to compare the process that leads to the sought after information, or more abstractly the process that starts with looking at the text and ends with the completion of the reader's immediate purpose.

      The information sought is often a small part of the full message. For example, in an article about silicon valley businesses, only a small part of the article may be about Microsoft, other parts may be about Google, Facebook etc. A reader collecting information about Microsoft has a purpose which does not require the full facts about Google and Facebook, and so on.

      One, you do not know that the second reader maintains a better model. That is your assumption. Second, since the parts are skipped before they are read, it is impossible to know they have low value. The reader could have skipped important parts simply because she thought they're uninteresting, or because of the way the writing was organized.

      Of course my assumption is: visual and hearing improves understanding. However, your second point illustrates perfectly the issue: You implicitly value accuracy and completeness only. That's certainly a possible purpose for reading, but for most reading situations it isn't the full story.

      To compare the two methods you look at the full process after the text has been read. [...]

      That is another unfounded assumption. There is no reason at all why things would happen the way you describe.

      There is. The process isn't complete until the purpose for reading has been achieved (or has failed). The input can be evaluated as it is being read, or can be evaluated some time after reading, but reading without taking into account the purpose is simply Shannon communication theory.

      In communication theory, the purpose of the end points is unknowable. The communications medium could be connected to a variety of sources and sinks. That leads to your metric of accuracy and completeness (ie transmission errors), as the only viable metric.

      Here however the reader (sink) is necessarily part of the model. You can compare any reading methods provided the end-result in the reader's brain is comparable. So if the reader's purpose is knowing about Microsoft, the other facts about Google and Facebook can be discarded at any stage. And if the reader's purpose includes speed or timeliness, that can be traded off against transmission errors.

      As an aside, I am not sure why you assume that reading whole words somehow reduces one's ability to skip words, should one choose to do so.

      I don't. You can read whole words and skip parts of the text, or you can read and sound out words and skip parts of the text. In the latter case, my thesis is that the rate of comprehension is higher, thereby leading to more accurate skipping. And if you elect not to skip, that's allright too, but you're likely doing more work than necessary for your purpose.

  76. Everything old is dusted off and researched again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think it was around thirty, maybe forty years ago there was the educationalist craze du jour for "sight reading". It started out from research that was remarkably like this, apparently, and fell to pieces because it made the usual educationalist blunder of confusing results with method. True, experienced, performant readers do recognize many words on shape rather than by examination, but that doesn't mean you can skip the sound-it-out stage with early readers.

    That was one generation of semi-literate idiots. What's your excuse, Slashies?

  77. Sound out vs hear internally by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Theyre not clear what they mean by sound out. I am most comfortable at a pace where i can hear each word, but this hearing is optional and follows recognition of the whole word in most cases - i still get the gist when i run my eyes more quickly, but then it is easier to lapse into a routine of running my eyes over text without reading.

  78. This has been known since about 1990... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This has been known since the early 90s, when it had to be explained why attempts to teach literacy via whole-word recognition in the 80s had produced children with diminished reading skills. People recognize words in whole, but they must learn them phonetically.

  79. Re:Wait.. you mean reading is *complicated*? by b4dc0d3r · · Score: 1

    *Gasp* Something that apparently only humans can do is complicated? Although animals can associate symbols with concepts in a similar way, they can't actually read. Certainly they haven't been shown to be able to make sense out of written information the same way the primates can work with sign language.

    This is the first real evidence of an alternate theory. One camp has evidence, the other camp has evidence, eventually the next generation of researchers will find it's more complicated than that.

    Just like we had DNA, then Nature/Nuture, then epigenetics, epigenetic inheritance, and more to come. As always, nothing in science is absolute. In fact, a good scientist assumes everything is wrong, or at least not complete, until everything about it is completely understood and explained. Tomorrow we may learn the sun does not exist, but is instead hawking radiation from a tiny black hole, due to new measurements from some newly built observatory.

    And while you're at it, club me over the head with a bat. I can make the argument that the jumbled mess of a sentence you posted is a collection of very simple word puzzles, or "jumbles", which people can solve quickly, and then sound out in their head.

    Arranged in a higher difficulty ordering, the sentence would become difficult to un-jumble, and sounding out would be impossible. That is entirely plausible, and supported by the available research, especially the number of newspapers in circulation which feature a Jumble puzzle in or near the comics section. Ta-da, it's science!

  80. True for music as well by coldsalmon · · Score: 1

    There's an example in this article: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/06/opinion/06hallinan.html It stretches the analogy perhaps too far, but the part about the music is pretty interesting.

  81. Duh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yup, that's true.

  82. Harry Potter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't know what it says about my skill as a reader, but I totally read that as "...recognize words by Snape" and was very intrigued until I RTFS.

  83. silly reportage by wmeyer · · Score: 1

    Some idiocy here: it's not a rebuttal, but recognition that the brain uses multiple strategies. While I may surely recognize tokens (I'll pass on the issue of how that works), it is equally true that when I encounter a new symbol, having been trained early on in phonics, I do decompose the token into its elements, and resolve it in that fashion.

    We've seen in so many areas how versatile the brain is, why on earth would we accept a story which posits a single mechanism? That smacks of a belief in the "whole word" teaching theory which has produced millions of functional illiterates.

    --
    --- Bill
    1. Re:silly reportage by jedwidz · · Score: 1

      The reasoning in TFA is even worse than in the summary - the claim that 'sounding out' doesn't happen is based on MRI scans of a particular brain region that responded only to the shapes, irrespective of the sounds they represented.

      Ermm, so what if the 'sounding out' actually does happen, but in a different brain region? Oops, didn't think of that!

      I'm pretty certain the 'sounding out' does always happen, on some level. For example, if I see the word 'night', there's going to be neural activation associated with a hard 'G' sound (and a soft 'G' sound, and an 'H' sound), even though it's irrelevant to the word, and even though I'm not consciously aware of it.

  84. This has been known since the 80s by thisisauniqueid · · Score: 2

    Reading via word shape has been tested since the 80s: See "The Psychology of Reading" by Taylor & Taylor (1989), or read this: http://www.microsoft.com/typography/ctfonts/wordrecognition.aspx Apparently one part of the brain looks at global word shape, and another starts reading letters from the beginning and end of the word at the same time, and they both collectively converge on a mutually-consistent hypothesis. But word shape reading is faster and often pre-empts the local feature (letter) reading process.

  85. Numbers as shapes/textures/feel - Daniel Tammet by z0idberg · · Score: 1
    This subject reminds me of a documentary I saw on Daniel Tammet.

    A "prodigious savant" with amazing mathematical and memory abilities.

    From wikipedia:

    In his mind, he says, each positive integer up to 10,000 has its own unique shape, colour, texture and feel. He can intuitively "see" results of calculations as synaesthetic landscapes without using conscious mental effort and can "sense" whether a number is prime or composite. He has described his visual image of 289 as particularly ugly, 333 as particularly attractive, and Pi as beautiful. The number 6 apparently has no distinct image yet what he describes as an almost small nothingness, opposite to the number 9 which he calls large and towering. Tammet has described 25 as energetic and the "kind of number you would invite to a party".Tammet not only verbally describes these visions, but has also created artwork, including a watercolour painting of Pi.

  86. Yes, BUT.... by siouxgeonz · · Score: 1

    However, it needs to be noted that how good readers read is not necessarily the same as how people learn to read. (Programmers: Do you code the same way that you did when you were learning it? Or are there a few zillion shortcuts that are automatic now?) We may recognize words by shape, but the letters still represent speech sounds, and *learning* what they are is rather important for learning to read fluently. There are also different ways the brain is wired for different people (f'rinstance, when females are processing language, it tends to go to more parts of the brain than when men are processing language).

  87. Speed Reading by Gim+Tom · · Score: 1

    Back in 1965 I was given an Evelyn Wood Speed reading course as a high school graduation present. One of the main things that course taught was that you DO NOT have to hear the sound of words to understand their meaning. It is also possible to read lines backwards as well as forwards. Dot matrix printers could print that way, and I have been able to read that way for over forty years. One reason I HATED meetings and mismanagement training so much was that the data transmission rate was SO SLOW!

    After I took the course I really didn't think I had learned anything or that the techniques worked. That is, until the next year at final exam time in collage when I was WAY behind in some courses. I managed to read the entire textbook twice the night before the final and pulled my grade up by two letter grades.

    I used it at times during my career when I had to change technologies in a hurry. I could absorb enough in a weekend to at least be able to spot the sales weasels trying to pull a fast one the following week.

    Although the course was taught as a way to read more fiction faster, I almost never used it for that. It was great for absorbing a lot of information very fast, but that is not the point of reading fiction and you loose almost all the real work that the author put into the piece.

  88. Re:Road signs are written for this by sChatwin · · Score: 1

    I remember reading of research by British Ministry of Transport in the '50s or so that confirmed this and lead to the standard of writing road signs in upper/lower case and sans serif so that they could be read faster and from greater distance by drivers going quickly

  89. Morse Code by ai4px · · Score: 1

    When I learned morse code, I began to hear whole words. This is the same thing.

  90. Re:Z-order curve idea - Done in Korean hangul by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Interestingly enough this is how the Korean syllable clusters has been built up.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hangeul_New_Version.jpg
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangul#Letter_placement_within_a_block

    Maybe we should do like king sejong and assign a group of scientist the work to rebuild the latin alphabet and give them 30 years to come up with the most effective alphabet.

    The more a read about linguistics I realize how scientific the hangul alphabet is built up.
    Also tying back to the fine article, the syllable clusters makes it easier to memorize the shape of not just words, but also syllables.

  91. myopia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Any short sighted person can attest to this. Seeing the length of a street name, and knowing the ratio of the font goes a long way to knowing whether you're at the right street. The good thing about this skill, is it can be used while driving.

    I often think that our brains are simply pattern recognition engines. It might actually help in designing good computer pattern recognition - particularly for images - to progressively increase the resolution as close matches are found.

    Example: Imagine you're looking at a nut on a bolt. A pattern recognition engine could be sped up markedly by first taking a low resolution snapshot of the nut and comparing it to a small library of basic shapes. It would see what could be a hexagon with a circle in it so it narrows its next search down to small subsection of the low resolution precursor images. Then it takes a medium resolution snapshot and explores the next few hundred medium resolution images, once again narrowing the search down to a small number of possibilities. Finally, a high resolution image is compared to the short list of high resolution images and the recognition engine will finally find a 100% match.

  92. Proving the Obvious by skywire · · Score: 1

    Tomorrow we'll probably have a story about a group of cartographers who have demonstrated that the flat earth theory is not true.

    --
    Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
  93. This is a well-known fact for speed readers by rogueVirus · · Score: 1

    Those who naturally "speed read" or have learned the skill know that this is rule #1 of learning to read quickly. It's discussed in this book, and, of course, here.

  94. yes, you do have aspergers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    According to your description, you have never experienced Samuel Coleridge's "willing suspension of disbelief". I can't be sure if that is your own fault or if you simply haven't read anything really good.

  95. Not very useful for the long term by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One should refrain from stretching this too far.

    I type Chinese using an IME (Changjie) that, given some structured partial information about the appearance of any character, can produce almost uniquely the desired character. This is in contrast of replicating the character stroke by stroke as in handwriting.

    After a couple of years of not writing Chinese by hand, I started to forget how to write some characters that I could type out, and finally I even needed consult a dictionary to type some characters I used to know quite well.

    The paradox is that, if someone were to abuse their ability recognizing words in this way, where they only show themselves the shapes of words to read (as opposed to reading a properly typed/written word by recognizing its shape), in the long run they may eventually lose such ability.

  96. Not a new idea. by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

    As far as i was aware everyone already knew that the brain did not sound out words every time you read one.

    --
    Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
  97. "Business professionals" write like this too by jbov · · Score: 1

    I get pissed as well. It is bad enough in text messages and casual e-mails. I get this in correspondence from customers though. In important e-mail messages, such as them detailing changes they need made in an application or web site, it takes me forever to figure out what they actually want. I think it's rude and insulting.

    The worst is when someone supplies a write-up for a web site in this garbage format. When you give someone an estimate based on the client providing the copy, you don't have time to fix this. These jobs are priced lower than jobs where we supply the copy writing. So, for these people, I started copying and pasting the copy just like they sent it. If they want me to rewrite it in real English ( in my case ), as well as spell check, and proof-read, then it goes beyond the estimate.

  98. Total Rubbish by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The research project is total rubbish being done to push a political agenda by disproving something that was never held to be true in the first place.
    There have been decades of proper research on the issue. This is an old summary for anyone interested in proper research.

    http://www.microsoft.com/typography/ctfonts/WordRecognition.aspx

  99. That's how you sightread music by ToasterTester · · Score: 1

    It's the same with reading music you learn to recognized common rhythmic patterns, same with chords voicings. Reading same thing you look at these simple words and just know them from a glance, you don't thing the letters and put it together. Even unfamiliar words you look for letter patterns first and piece together the words.

  100. As long as I can remember by Neil+Boekend · · Score: 1

    I am a bit dyslexic, though not enough to have much troubles. I have been reading words instead of letters for as long as I can remember. I must have changed it because I mess up the letters anyways. I do remember not understanding the reading lessons, and reading as one of the fastest in the class. After 2 years reading I was 4 years ahead of my fellow kids.
    My sister is a bit more dyslexic than I am. She never learned to read words instead of letters (maybe due to being a bit more dyslexic. Dunno). She has had troubles reading for years. A couple of years back we talked about reading (and how it came to be I read so fast, while I had sort of the same troubles recognising letters). She must have tried to read in the same way, since she started reading for fun after a few months (she devoured the Harry Potter series).
    I think it would be usefull for most children to try to read words instead of letters, although I do not have any clue about how the curriculum would be. I started reading words after I learned how to read letters (wich didn't work for me but may have given me enogh of a foothold to form words and build that database), but a more dyslexic kid may have to much troubles reading letters to get to words.

    --
    Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
  101. Numbers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's the same with numbers!! Numbers, even strings of numbers are pictures and each invoke there own feelings. They stay embedded in memory that way.

  102. Re:Road signs are written for this by Aero · · Score: 1

    Precisely. My distance vision isn't great even with glasses, but when I know the name of the road I'm looking for (even if I've never driven that way before), I know what the word is supposed to look like on the sign and I can recognize the pattern of letterforms long before I can "read" them clearly.

    --
    We can believe in you for 3 minutes, but beyond that, even the King of All Cosmos can't be expected to wait.
  103. Ideograms by sweetenham · · Score: 1

    I think the same approach to reading makes reading ideogram based languages, such as Chinese and Japanese written using Kanji, particularly efficient. My (not scientifically tested) impression is that reading a simple sentence in Japanese is faster than in English (I'm a native English reader and no expert in Japanese).I guess reading Egyptian Hieroglyphs was similarly fast.

  104. These are NOT mutually exclusive guys. by Kartu · · Score: 1

    I find it amusing that we discuss it not on, say Georgian (one letter one sound) or German (a bit more complicated but still straightforwad) where I could remotely imagine someone reading it letter by letter, but on English speaking forum, how do you read word potato letter by letter? :)

    It's pretty clear that we recognize entire words. But how does it prove that we still do NOT pronounce them, pretty please?

  105. typo... by xded · · Score: 1

    "I cnduo't bvleiee taht..."

    What actually amazes me is that I immediatly recognized that there was a missing L...

  106. Wrong, I think. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's also why certain words are constantly spelt incorrectly or mistaken for one another. Not only are the sounds of the variations similar, and sometimes the meaning, but so are the shapes. E.g., you don't see people mistake "they're" for "their", but you see people mistake "there" for "their" and vice versa all the time. Or for that matter, "then" and "than", "effect" and "affect".

    And that's why nobody ever uses "your" for "you're", "loose" for "lose", or "to" for "too".

    It seems like just a couple of weeks ago that I saw a research press-release claiming to refute the word-shape hypothesis. Can't find it now, though. No matter; when you simplify the question to its most basic level, the answer is "it's not that simple".

  107. News? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This has been known since at least the early1970's, there have been plenty of scientific studies made (at least in Northern Europe). One important point is that it is not the only way to be a fast reader and not all fast readers read this way.

    As for dyslexia, there are several causes for dyslexia. The 60+ most common causes have already been studied thoroughly, the one mentioned in the article included.

    Ironically, one very common cause of dyslexia, not dissimilar to the trait of fast readers mentioned in the article, make the person very fast in recognising visual patterns, but in a manner that don't play well with text set in Roman typefaces. The dyslectic is then very fast in mirroring or rotating shapes (inside their head), which is generally a very good survival skill, e.g. if you need to recognise dangerous bugs or snakes fast, have to recognise predators or prey at a long distance or camouflaged against the background, or for finding berries, nuts and herbs, but make it hard to distinguish between letterforms like "bpdq", "un", "AV" et c. in typical Roman typefaces. These kind of dyslectics always score very well on IQ tests, since those tests include several queries where this trait is useful. People with this kind of dyslexia can often be able to learn to read very fast in typefaces with very distinctive and unregular glyphs, e.g. MS Comic Sans, or 13th-17th century Blackletter Kurrent typefaces, some also to read well in typefaces where all the glyphs in words is interconnected and form one continuous shape (i.e. typefaces that mimic handwriting like secretary hand, chancery hand et c.). But then, most of those that already are fast readers of Roman typefaces can often learn to read the those kinds of typefaces even faster, i.e. Roman typefaces isn't very easy/fast to read for anyone.

  108. My friends all do this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They just call me "Annie."