Slashdot Mirror


Toronto School Bans Hard Balls

In an attempt to finally "think of the children," Earl Beatty Public school has prohibited students from playing with balls after a "few serious incidents" in which students and staff were hit or almost hit by balls. From the article: "The happy days of kicking a ball around at recess ended Monday after students took home a letter advising that henceforth, no child could bring a soccer ball, football, volleyball or even tennis ball to the junior and senior school in the area of Coxwell and Danforth Aves." I assume all lunches will soon be taken via feeding tube to minimize choking hazards.

67 of 319 comments (clear)

  1. No ball jokes in the comments. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'm watching you.

    1. Re:No ball jokes in the comments. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      "No ball jokes in the comments."

      Can we at least make jokes about Coxwell Ave.?

    2. Re:No ball jokes in the comments. by mug+funky · · Score: 2

      i had to eat my words.

    3. Re:No ball jokes in the comments. by c++0xFF · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'm watching you.

      Whoops, I didn't realize anybody was watching.

      (/me puts down his balls)

    4. Re:No ball jokes in the comments. by sgt+scrub · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No way. Last time I got yelled at.

      --
      Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
    5. Re:No ball jokes in the comments. by hairyfeet · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Fine, although I'd say that's a pretty ballsy move for you to just cancel them like that. You sir must have....balls of steel! Which of course means you're not allowed within 500 yards of the school in TFA.

      Now for something serious...who the fuck decided we have to babyproof the world? Did I miss a memo? Hell when I was 5 I had my own minibike, most of the other kids had minibikes or go-carts as well. Did we get hurt? fuck yeah we got hurt, but you know what? We went home, put a band-aid on that shit and went back out again!

      Hell its no wonder kids are coming out so fucked up nowadays, parents treating kids like they are made out of glass! Can't play outside, can't trick or treat, I had one bump into me at a grocery store and when I simply said "excuse me young lady" I had her mother whisper "stranger danger", needless to say I went off on her ass at how teaching basic manners instead of acting like everyone was gonna snatch her kid would make the world a hell of a lot better place.

      Frankly I'm so damned sick of idiot parenting that it ain't even funny. i'm just glad that the parents in my building are actually teaching their children to behave instead of acting nuts. I had to knock on one of their doors the other day just to compliment her on raising such a polite child, who actually held the door open when I was loaded down and said "good morning sir" when I approached. How damned sad is it when simple common everyday courtesy has to be treated like some rare and precious accomplishment.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    6. Re:No ball jokes in the comments. by Phoghat · · Score: 2

      Well I guess I can't attend school in Toronto, because my balls....oh, never mind.

      --
      Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    7. Re:No ball jokes in the comments. by dtmancom · · Score: 2

      Seems to me that when a generation of children is raised with an overly strong sense of entitlement and no manners (which causes a basic lack of empathy and respect for others), you end up with "Occupy" demonstrations. I CAN HAS UR STUFF?

  2. What next? by ksd1337 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Will they ban pencils, because they can be sharpened into "stabbing weapons?"

    1. Re:What next? by baelgren · · Score: 5, Funny

      Don't forget the grave danger posed by paper cuts - they should ban paper too. Computers can cause eyestrain, those should probably go. Many text books are heavy and could cause injury if dropped or thrown, so those are gone. I guess the kids should all just go to individual padded cells where they listen to instructional reading piped over speakers....wait, speakers can be turned up too loud causing hearing loss......

    2. Re:What next? by pmgarvey · · Score: 5, Funny

      Paper cuts are the worst kind of injury because they hurt like hell but no one gives you any sympathy.There should really be a movement to recognise the seriousness of the paper cut.

    3. Re:What next? by Pharmboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So you are agreeing that banning pencils is a good idea? I hope not. Once we eliminate all risks in life, we eliminate all rewards as well.

      --
      Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
    4. Re:What next? by mug+funky · · Score: 2

      mods!

    5. Re:What next? by DeadDecoy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ipads for everyone!

    6. Re:What next? by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 5, Funny

      Well... maybe not ban pencils... but perhaps force people to need a license to obtain a pencil- and maybe go through a 60 day wait period to stop crimes of passion.

      Pencils are a dangerous weapon!

      - I'm just not sure what they would use to fill out the application form for the license.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    7. Re:What next? by Baloroth · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yes?

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    8. Re:What next? by wjcofkc · · Score: 2

      When I was in 1st grade Joey B. asked Devin M. if he could borrow a piece of paper. Devin responded by taking his freshly sharpened pencil and driving it clean through Joeys hand.

      It was one of the coolest things I've ever seen.

      --
      Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
    9. Re:What next? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      You should join my movement: Occupy The Woods. It's all the fucking trees' fault. On the plus side, no one gives us all that much shit about setting up tents.

    10. Re:What next? by liquidweaver · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Right after the Columbine thing happend (I was in highschool), the school I was at started banning stuff left and right. Noting the ridiculousness in a very similar fashion to waht you are doing here, me and a few buddies printed out a ream of flyers declaring that "Sharp writing utensils, including pencils and pens will be confiscated" and that you have to use "approved safe" writing instruments like markers and crayons.

      We then snuck out during an assembly and taped them up everywhere. Amazing, noone got caught - but it was effective. A few students took them home, some discussion started, and some of the bans were lifted (including dusters/long coats).

      It was the proudest moment of highschool for me :)

      --
      mov ah, 4ch
      int 21h
    11. Re:What next? by hldn · · Score: 2

      i also still have my graphite tattoo from 1997.. i gave a kid a flat tire as we were walking out of study hall and he instantly did some whirlwind ninja spin and stabbed me right in the arm with his pencil D;

      --
      http://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
    12. Re:What next? by residieu · · Score: 2

      I think you'll find Officer Bear has something a bit worse than pepper spray for you.

    13. Re:What next? by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 3, Informative

      Wikipedia to the rescue! The Romans did lots of things with lead that you generally shouldn't, it seems.

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    14. Re:What next? by 19thNervousBreakdown · · Score: 5, Funny

      Whacking someone with an iPad is against the EULA.

      Balls, lacking software, are not protected by IP laws. Ergo, iPads are safer than balls.

      --
      <xml><I><am><so><damn>Web 2.0</damn></so></am></I></xml>
    15. Re:What next? by fyngyrz · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, no, you don't understand. Schools in the US "socialize" children in such a way that they will support "team sport" both as children and later as adults, which in turn pushes revenue to the town businesses when other teams come to town for competitions. The businesses, in turn, "rah rah" like crazy, perhaps even buy some uniforms for the kids. It's entirely financial. As far as injuries go, that's ok as long as the team can still play. My ex-wife, a surgeon, dealt with spleen and bone injuries on a regular basis from the local sports programs. A couple of real bad spinal injuries as well over the course of a decade. Trashed immune system? Broken growth plates? Destroyed knee? No problem! And it's always interesting to hear a coach tell the kids to really get in there and injure the opposition (or, in one case I know of, the opposing JV team.) "Gotta practice like you play, kids!"

      If government has a legitimate role here, it is educating kids. Reading, writing, math, history, civics, science, and so on. Not "sports." Kids should be done with school early and then, if they want sport, they should go to a private club or other entity that does the sport in question. School sports -- from taxpayer funded playing fields to the huge busses that carry the teams around -- are a huge misuse of tax money, and clear-headed parents don't support them in any way.

      There's another issue as well, and that is bullying/lording; kids in sports are inevitably given leeway and options that kids not in sports do not receive, and along with the whole snotty "I'm a football player / cheerleader and you're not" comes mistreatment and isolation. And don't even get me started on "sports scholarships" -- the very idea is a contradiction in terms. There's nothing "scholarly" about school sports at all. It's about money.

      It's bad enough that kids naturally aren't on an equal footing intelligence wise; that's something we have to deal with because they have to be educated anyway. There's no need to add an entirely superfluous level of ostracizing to the kid's lives.

      The small town I live in is saturated to the gills with child sports-related nonsense. It's a crying shame.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    16. Re:What next? by Hatta · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A pen?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    17. Re:What next? by SeaFox · · Score: 5, Funny

      Good God man! Haven't you heard the pen is mightier than the sword!
      We can't have children carrying an item more deadly than a claymore.

    18. Re:What next? by mcgrew · · Score: 2

      Trust me, you will want the government funding physical education unless you want to choke on the health costs later

      Considering how damned fat the younger generations are, I think you're going to have to come up with a little proof there, fellow, because I don't see how PE has done anything for anybody. The jocks on the football team? Obese before age 35. Damned lot of good PE did them. They would have been far better off learning that you don't use an apostrophe with plural's,* and their "they're" is there. The internet shows me that they're playing FAR too many sports and doing FAR too little reading (or any other kind of learning).

      When I was a kid, we actually went outside and played -- getting exercise -- without any damned adults at all. Play and exercise come natural to children. Baseball, football (in the street, no less), riding our bikes... we got plenty of exercise. But back then we didn't have every goddamned newspaper and TV and radio station warning us that there was a pedohile behind every bush just waiting to rape and kill all the children. We were actually allowed outside, unsupervised!

      Odd, the world has become far less risky now than then. We had no ABS, air bags, seat belts, bicycle helmets, child seats, hazard warnings on everything imaginable... and we didn't cower in fear every damned day like the kids do now.

      Balls? Grow a pair and let your kids outside!

      * caught that, did you?

  3. Re:This is why socialism doesn't work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I call bullshit, you are a passive aggressive American who wants to paint socialism in a shitty light. This has nothing to do with Canada's economy.

  4. Hard Balls? by Culture20 · · Score: 4, Funny
    I envisioned a baseball or a softball (a large baseball that isn't really soft).

    soccer ball, football, volleyball or even tennis ball

    None of those listed are even hard! What do they consider soft, Nerf?

    1. Re:Hard Balls? by Trogre · · Score: 4, Funny

      In fact that is the school's new slogan: Nerf or nothing.

      --
      "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
    2. Re:Hard Balls? by Zaphod+The+42nd · · Score: 3, Informative

      TFA says nerf and sponge balls only. Its pretty sad. :(

      --
      GCS/MU/P d- s:- a-- C++++$ UL++ P+ L++ E+ W++ N o K- w--- O M+ V- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5- X R++ tv+ b++ DI++ D++ G+ e++ h-
    3. Re:Hard Balls? by evil_aaronm · · Score: 2

      How the fuck are they supposed to play lacrosse? Try playing that with a Nerf ball.
      Or are they banning lacrosse, too, because you might hit someone?
      Getting beaned with a speeding lacrosse ball teaches you to pay attention to your surroundings. Good lesson to learn. Why do they want their kids to be dumb? (Rhetorical, folks - don't need an answer...)

    4. Re:Hard Balls? by Culture20 · · Score: 3, Informative

      If you get a football in the face, I think you'll agree with the classification of it being hard.

      I have (both soccer and pigskin), and I don't agree. I've also been hit in the face with a baseball, so I know what's hard (pain lasting weeks), and what isn't (a bloodied nose for a few minutes).

  5. Are you from penn state? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Stop thinking of the children and their balls.. That's not what we ment when we said 'think of the children'.

  6. Slashdot, what is up today? by Baloroth · · Score: 5, Funny

    First, a story about a Boeing "Penetrator". Now, a summary about balls. "In an attempt to finally "think of the children" Earl Beatty Publid school has prohibited students from playing with balls" practically shoves it in your face. Dick jokes... actually, are still pretty funny. Nevermind go right ahead.

    The ban on hard balls being brought to school is a “proactive measure. It’s also a preventative measure,”

    Yes. That would work as a preventative too. Most schools take a slightly... different approach, but I suppose banning balls period works too. To prevent head injuries.

    --
    "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
  7. Ah Pocket Billiards on a cold day... by TooTechy · · Score: 2

    How can they ban this?

  8. Re:pencils can be sharpened into "stabbing weapons by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 2
    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  9. Re:So I should stop by Surt · · Score: 4, Funny

    No, I think anyone who has started that practice should probably never stop ... best for the gene pool really.

    --
    "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
  10. Title Should Be by arthurpaliden · · Score: 3, Funny

    Distinct possibility of frivolous lawsuits cause ban on hard balls at Toronto school.

  11. Re:Well... by chispito · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In the days where there are lawsuit trolls roaming the earth trying to turn any mishap into $$$, I can't really blame them.

    Of course, take it out on the kids instead of the lawyers or politicians that allow the lawyers to conduct business as they do.

    --
    The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
  12. Vote out the school board!! by ShavedOrangutan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    November 7, the entire school board for my county of 60,000 residents went up for election. Only 2000 people voted. Several of the board members ran uncontested. The rest were reelected.

    If you don't like crap like this, get yourself or someone you trust on the school board. It can't be that hard!

    The general voting public ignores local politics, which is much more important for day to day life.

    --
    Godaddy is a scam and a ripoff.
    1. Re:Vote out the school board!! by tepples · · Score: 2

      get yourself or someone you trust on the school board

      Does serving on the school board require experience as a licensed teacher?

    2. Re:Vote out the school board!! by WiiVault · · Score: 2

      You mean we should just ignore the multitude of shitty lazy parents and instead blame the people who bothered to get educated just to work low paying thankless jobs and have to put up with said shitty parents when Junior doesn't get the grade they think he deserves? I'm not a teacher, and I can't think of any that I know personally, but I don't think teachers have changed much in the last 50 years, its students and by extension the parents who are increasingly overworked or just lazy, disinterested in their kids, and wholly unwilling to hold up their end of the bargain by reading to their kids, limiting TV/gaming time, and monitoring their academic progress. I remember lots of crappy teachers in my medium sized city schools, but compared with the kind of "parenting" I see today in public almost daily, the teachers seem quite competent by and large. You have to be licensed to be a teach in most locals, too bad its impossible to do the same with parents who act like parenting is some horrible burden imposed on them, and the little monsters they raised from birth, and live with 15 hours a day must be due to somebody else. Check out the stats comparing the success of kids who parents give two craps about their kids with the parents who treat their kids like baggage.

    3. Re:Vote out the school board!! by swalve · · Score: 2

      Yes. Teaching and schools were invented because "shitty lazy parents" were no good at educating their own kids. Blaming the parents is a complete cop out. Kids whose parents care will do better, but kids whose parents don't care still have to get educated.

  13. More trash on /. by rish87 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Why is this on here?! This is not at all tech or nerd related and it is completely overblown. If your RTFA you'll see it is ONE SCHOOL enacting a temporary measure because they have 350 kids on a playground that is too small which also includes a day care with toddlers. I don't even know why the "toronto news" thought this was newsworthy let alone slashdot.

    1. Re:More trash on /. by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 3, Funny

      Because chubby tech-geeks in their big chairs like to feel smug about how the Nanny State is taking away their time-travel-based rights to return to elementary school and get hit by a baseball, like God intended?

  14. This is Getting Out of Hand by Casper0082 · · Score: 2

    This whole "think of the children" is getting out of hand. I remember growing up climbing trees, using a tall spiral slide, and playing on monkey bars. Could I have gotten hurt? Sure, but scrapes, bruises, and learning how to fall is a part of growing up. If you remove all possible ways for a child to develop his motor skills and learn how to deal with an occasional "oops" when they get hurt, we are going to grow up with a bunch of kids who prefer to sit out of sports and other social events.

    This is life, shit happens. People can get hurt and or killed at any point in their life. Banning sports balls is not the answer.

  15. When I was a kid... by IpSo_ · · Score: 2

    We used to use these so called "hard" balls explicitly to throw at people with the intent to hit them. I believe they called it a "game"... Ball tag?

    Schools will attempt to ban any and everything that could possibly be fun even if there is no chance of someone getting hurt (trading hockey cards was banned from my elementary school), its ridiculous.

    --
    Open Source Time and Attendance, Job Costing a
  16. What about rocks? by wisnoskij · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Rocks are not balls and you can still play catch, baseball, hockey, etc. with them.

    --
    Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
  17. Re:Absurd of course, but... by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 5, Informative

    Granted, I am probably the first person to RTFA, but of course, despite the play to the aesthetics of outrage, the true story is less absurd, less dramatic:

    1. the "ban" is temporary until they can find a better solution to the problem

    2. the problem is not that the precious little angels might get hit by balls, it's that the play area is much too small, making accidents too likely.

    But don't let me stop the hand-wringing. Carry on, carry on.

  18. Solution: Helmets for wimpy parents by superdave80 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ..the most serious injury at the school to date involved a parent, who was hit in the head by a soccer ball and suffered a concussion.

    If that parent can suffer a concussion from a soccer ball kicked by a kid then they need to wear a helmet whenever they leave the house. Don't punish everybody else for having a skull made out of jello.

  19. Beyond reasonable by failedlogic · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Many kids today are inactive and do everything to play sports. School is an environment to grow, learn, play and socialize. Sports seems to fit this very well.

    A colleague of mine at work said their 8 yr old son was sent home from school on Halloween, because their outfit was 'too scary'. The parents got a letter and other kids were apparently dismissed. He had a mummy or vampire costume mom had made him.

    I don't have kids yet. It seems odd that the generation that grew out of having hippie pot smoking, acid dropping, heavy metal parents to their kids who, like myself, grew up listening to and enjoying even crazier music and exposed to more sex, drugs and alcohol are the same that are deeply offended by 'scary' Halloween costumes or kids playing sports at school.

    I live in Toronto and compared to what goes on in the rest of the city, playing with your (or other people's) balls should be the least of parents' concerns. (pun intended),

  20. The Canadians will be OK with this... by BenSchuarmer · · Score: 2

    as long as they're still allowed to play hockey.

  21. Hit or almost hit by residieu · · Score: 2

    This wasn't brought on by a series of injuries, but a series on "incidents". People were getting hit or almost hit. Oh No! One of those people hit got a concussion! Yes, concussions can be serious, but if you let your kids get any kinds of exercise at all they run the risk of a concussion. I got a concussion falling off a jungle gym. No balls involved at all.

    One concussion and some bruises or abrasions is no reason to ban a fun form of exercise. No one ever suggested I stop climbing on things after I hurt myself. (I know that since I've left school, people have made that demand of today's kids, but that's just as unreasonable.

  22. Re:Was it a specific letter? by Shotgun · · Score: 4, Funny

    I don't think they banned balls with arms.

    --
    Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
    Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
  23. Re:Aliens, the time to invade is now! by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 2

    Ick. No thank you! We like ours spicy, a little chewy and with a bit of fight left in them. After all, half the fun is chasing 'em down and catching them. Weren't you paying attention when we got Hollywood to make our "Predator" movies?

    --
    Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
  24. oyfg... by Tastecicles · · Score: 2

    ... is this the same school that first stopped keeping scores in soccer because they didn't want to "emotionally harm" the losing side?

    I weep for the species.

    --
    Operation Guillotine is in effect.
  25. Where is the story here? by westlake · · Score: 5, Informative

    Google maps shows a urban JK-8 school with a tiny green space and playground.

    The street level view is crowded.
    There is a small area set aside with a handful of shade trees, a slide, climbers, etc., for the youngest kids.
    A running track frames the play area for the older ones.
    There is a batting cage at the far end of the field, but no other permanent structures.

    You could probably safely practice and play some team sports here under controlled conditions. But 350 kids on break each doing their own thing?

    I don't think so.

    The Address: 55 Woodington Avenue, Toronto, ON M43 3J3, Canada

  26. Carlin got it right by Neurotrace · · Score: 2

    Obligatory wisdom from George Carlin. It's only a matter of time before idly standing around is banned.

  27. Re:Public Education at it's Best by residieu · · Score: 2

    The comment subject say "Public Education at it's Best". its is the correct word. Of course nobody reads the comment subjects, that's why you missed it.

  28. Next up.. by kytreb · · Score: 2

    Children will need to get permission from the tag-ee prior to tagging them as 'it'.

  29. Soccer and the Brain by westlake · · Score: 2

    Head injuries account for between 4% and 22% of all soccer injuries.

    In soccer, concussions make up 2-3% of all injuries. This is the same rate as for American football!

    A study involving men's and women's college soccer teams from the Atlantic Coast Conference found a total of 29 concussions in a 2-year period. The most common cause of the concussions was when one player's head struck the head of another player. This was also the most common source of concussions in a group of soccer players at the US Olympic Sport Festival in 1993. The second most common cause of concussions occurred when a ball struck a player's head. These head-to-ball concussions happened when a player was hit in the head by a ball kicked from close range. In many cases, the ball traveled so quickly the player did not have time to react. NONE of the concussions were caused by proper heading of the ball. Heading the ball, however, is not without consequences. A player may head the ball many times during practice sessions and about eight times during a game. Many players at the 1993 US Olympic Festival experienced headaches after heading the ball. These headaches lasted from a few seconds to several days.

    A Norwegian study found that 35% of 69 Division I soccer players had abnormal electroencephalogram (EEG) patterns. This is more than twice the rate of abnormal EEG patterns in control subjects. Retired soccer players had several brain abnormalities including reduced cortical tissue and increased lateral ventricle size.

    Soccer players also seem to perform more poorly than control subjects on some types of IQ tests and many former players (81%) suffer from problems with attention, concentration, and memory. Players who typically head the ball have also been found to have more neurological problems than non-headers. Compared to goalies and midfielders ("non-headers"), forwards and defenders ("headers") performed more poorly on some memory, visual perception and planning tests.

    Most of the data come from players at the elite level who have played soccer for many years. Professional soccer players head the ball thousands of times during their careers. There has not been much research on the effects of heading the soccer ball on children or recreational players. Although helmets may protect players from concussions, their usefulness has not been tested. At least one company is selling helmets to be used by children while playing soccer.

    So, how can head injuries be reduced and minimized? Here are some recommendations:

    Players should have proper instruction on the correct way to head the ball.

    The ball should be the appropriate size for the age of the players. Smaller balls are less likely to cause injury. Also, make sure the ball is inflated properly.

    Use "no heading" rules for younger players. If a player is not allowed to head the ball, the ball is less likely to hit a player's head.

    Use padded goalposts.

    Soccer and the Brain

  30. No one has quoted yet? by __aavevi421 · · Score: 2

    "The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools." Herbert Spencer

  31. Pool Safety by superdoo · · Score: 3, Funny

    I went to kindergarten at this school and almost drowned while on a class trip, I'm ok with them taking a safety-focused approach.

  32. THIS SIDE TOWARDS HIGHLANDERS by TiggertheMad · · Score: 3, Funny

    Why would you give children landmines? You probably peel the 'DO NOT EAT' stickers off of them before you hand them off, too....

    --

    HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
  33. The larger question is... by afxgrin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why is this relevant news to this site? Has /. become Fark?

    This is also an elementary school in the middle of Toronto. It has limited yard space, and hence, not much room for kids to share a relatively small space.

  34. What the puck?? by wedontneednobadges · · Score: 2

    I suppose a ban on hockey is next...