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Domestic Surveillance Drones Could Spur Tougher Privacy Laws
An anonymous reader writes "Have you ever been spied on by a surveillance drone? No? Are you sure? Maybe it looked like a hummingbird. Or an insect. Or maybe it was just really high up. Maybe there's one looking in your window right now, and if so, there's no law that says it shouldn't. In a recent article in the Stanford Law Review, Ryan Calo discusses how domestic surveillance drones would fit into the current legal definitions of privacy (and violations thereof), and how these issues could inform the future of privacy policy. The nutshell? Surveillance robots have the potential to fundamentally degrade privacy to such an extent that they could serve as a catalyst for reform."
Only laws I would expect to be passed regarding such things is that it would be legal for them to be used on us, but illegal for us to use them. But perhaps I'm just a cynical bastard.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
You still need a warrant if the surveillance is directed at an individual. And if it's just patrolling, how is that any different than a cop walking his beat?
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More likely the frog-in-boiling-water metaphor will apply, as the gradual decline in privacy (up to the present and going forward) prevents most people from noticing just how hot things are getting.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
If Iran's military can neutralize this threat, I'm sure our more curious engineering student could do so as well.
It's nice to talk about laws protecting us from the government, but in truth the only thing holding them back is fear of us.
In these parts, just before harvest, they fly around with army helicopters and peak in our windows looking for pot plants. The whole freaking house shakes!
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More government abuse.
There is something absolutely wrong with the people, when they allow the government workers any more entitlements and rights than the citizens have. Since when is it OK for a private individual to stalk another private individual in their own house, setting up bugs and cameras and recording devices, etc?
Realize this: if it's not OK for a private individual, then it's not OK for a government either. Government is just a bunch of individuals that have been given enormous amounts of power over other individuals.
If you don't see a problem with some individuals having huge amounts of power over other individuals, then you have no imagination.
You can't handle the truth.
As of late, I have been feeling as though Afghanistan and Iraq where really just proving grounds for our new Drone Overlords. The wars more meant as a way to test using drones against a civilian population without people at home realizing it. I also don't see Drones as the future of combat more then against non-technologically developed countries. Counter Drone tech is already proven in Iran. It will take a bit of time to develop but I think even North Korea is going to be taking down any errant drones. Plus, you can shoot them down if worst comes to to worst because nobody dies.
The only good thing about drones is that we could use them to provide cheap internet service.
In his interview, Moxie suggested building your own flying device to "engage" theirs. As far as aerial engagement goes, I can only interpret that to mean he suggests we take the fight to the air.
Actually if you recognize the converging trends of a police-state mentality, a major political party increasingly dominated by religious fundamentalists, the unprecedented technology to enable surveillance, and the recent extra-judicial assassination of U.S citizens on foreign soil, you might start to think "TRUST NOBODY ZOMG" is an appropriate response.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
Allows law enforcement to record citizens but beats citizens for recording them.
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I'm sure people will come up with all of the ways in which the 4th Amendment couldn't possibly apply here (ZOMG, you're out of your house, how could you possibly expect privacy), but really I've always assumed that this is exactly where it should be applied.
This whole "oh well, this technology bypasses the strict wording of that" is just moving the goalposts to sat that if it wasn't specifically prohibited, it must be OK.
No warrant, no probably cause ... no dragnet and broad automated surveillance. The US isn't supposed to allow domestic spying without probable cause and judicial oversight. This record everybody and figure it out later is pretty much the opposite of a free society.
Sadly, terrorism, protecting the children, and copyright all seem to more or less allow one to circumvent these things.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
How far above my property do I own? Because, as of right now, any "Flying machinery" within reach of my 12 gauge is fair game imo. I suspect DIY auto-turrents for under $100 will become more common additions to rooftops as well.
Here is my answer to the inevitable "it's public, and you have no expectation of privacy."
Suppose that the mayor or governor where you live doesn't like you, and arranged so that whenever you left your house, there was a squad car (or foot patrol) waiting on the street, and they followed you where-ever you went. If you go in a store, they're just down the aisle. If you go to church, they sit in the next pew. If you go to a bar, they are there a few feet away. At no time do they invade your house, or touch you, but they are always there, watching and listening.
You have just described the life of a dissident in Eastern Europe, circa 1975-1985. If you think this is OK, or normal, or part of a civilized society, you are crazy.
If you think that it is OK to do all of this with machinery instead of people, you are also crazy. It's no different if it is a goon or a robotic gnat.
Of which the purchasing of the components for will end you up on a dozen government watch lists.
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Just replace "frog" with "lobster" - that way it is accurate and everyone's happy.
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A hummingbird or an insect? A pellet gun and a fly swatter should do just nicely.
No? How about the laws used to restrain peeping toms? The placement of surveillance cameras by unauthorized personelle in places like bathrooms has been upheld as a privacy violation in many nations, and is illegal.
Or the (victorious!) claims against Google's street view "surveillance" of homes that violated their right to privacy by mounting their cameras higher than "normal" pedestrian or vehicle traffic views the street from?
Just because the US FBI likes to place GPS trackers on people without warrants doesn't mean that behaviour has been found legal, either.
Why do so many privacy advocates go around screaming like Chicken Little about the falling sky of government intrusion and oppression, instead of creatively explaining how current law can be used to leash the hounds!
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
The Paparazzi will save us by abusing this in every way possible. The rich and famous have no choice but to tell the politicians to change the laws.
tomorrow who's gonna fuss
Yeah anyone remember when they promised they would *never* use drones on Americans?
You remember that? When we all flipped out years ago and they said this technology was only for the battlefield and would *never* be used domestically?
Yeah no one else remembers either. They WERE build to spy upon us and us tin-foil-hat wearers WERE RIGHT when said this would be used to spy on Americans.
Enjoy your spies in the skies.... fucking retards.
Once the total, financial ruin of the US renders it functionally inoperable, and its laws unenforceable.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
On the other hand, if you want complete privacy, conduct your private acts in a sealed soundproof room. :P
Unfortunately, if you have a room sealed to visible light and sound egress, you've still got other factors, such as ventilation ducts (unless you bring your own air supply), EM radiation outside the visible spectrum, power supply variation, etc.
Right now, it's really easy to say "Some people walked into that sealed room and have been in there for 2 hours. My scanner indicates that there are now 2 cell phones registered to X and Y that made their way to that room from locations A and B, and one WiFi client currently broadcasting SSID ABC and transmitting this data stream over "secure" WPA2. Of course, the laptop also has a RAT installed, and we've been able to turn on the video camera and microphone; here's the feed...."
They used to do this for quite a few targets of interest -- CPUSA, black militants, labor organizers, KKK members.
Except they went further -- bugs, phone taps, mail interception.
All in the name of freedom.
soon we will all have a personal flying intelligent companion that acts as like a superpowered smartphone. Such a device will including a vast array of sophisticated sensors, monitors, and jammers that can be utilized for a "stealth" mode.
For every benefit you receive a tax is levied. - Ralph Waldo Emerson
Wow. As an American who's been trying to move to Canada that makes me sad. Is it not a bastion of sanity and forward-thinking? Let's see, no stupid wars, prostitution mostly legal, top freedom in all of Ontario, sane cannabis position, public health care.... sounds like a utopia to me. It's crushing to hear there may be down sides... really? All I've heard about is this French Canada place...
I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. - Hunter S. Thompson
Who cares about drones? I already get nightly flyby's of the San Diego police helicopter. Worse yet, my house seems to resonate around 45Hz, which means that if the copter is in the air within a few miles of my house, I experience a low rumble. At least if they used drones I could sleep at night.
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Actually if you recognize...a major political party increasingly dominated by religious fundamentalists...
I know /. isn't exactly the best place to go for intellectually honest debate, but seriously people, THIS IS NEITHER AN ISSUE OF POLITICAL PARTIES NOR RELIGION!!! Granted, many of the things that we have been discussing lately were started during G. W. Bush's (R) presidency. But Obama (D) has continued G.W.B.'s legacy, and even added to it. Throwing religion and partisan politics into the debate only serves to divide those who should be allied against this crap. Can we PLEASE stop pretending that it's the evil "(Republicans|Democrats)" who are doing this? It's BOTH.
MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
You'll notice a sentence or two later I mentioned Obama's precedent of assassinating U.S. citizens by presidential decree. I fully expect such killings to continue regardless of who holds office. So while the Republicans are in fact evil and their religious rhetoric worries me, the Democrats are also evil and it was a Democratic president who was first to cross the line into ordering a hit on a U.S. citizen.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
Ahhh...yeah, I did miss that. Looks like our opinions aren't as widely separated as I first thought. Sorry about that.
MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
Expect the government to pass laws banning these devices... and exempting themselves from any such ban.
Liberty in your lifetime
Do not use visible lasers; they are too easy to track to the house they shoot from.
For blinding the drones (and not blinding live pilots) an infrared laser could be good.
Taken to higher power, a CO2 laser for a laser engraver can reach couple dozen watts fairly easily. With good focus and dwell time, perhaps could even cause structural failure of some plastic parts on the drone.
Yet another possibility is in the realm of microwaves. A sufficiently focused (perhaps from several houses, networked in an aerial defense grid) microwave beam could confuse the drone's electronics or perhaps even force internal overheat.
A guided model rocket with a suitable payload (or even just as a dumb kinetic projectile) could also do a good job. Such devices can even be unmanned and placed out as "mines", ready to be triggered by an overpassing drone. Suitable sizing of the rocket can ensure that only light, non-fatal damage will be inflicted to large manned aircraft (if hit by a mistake) while the damage to a lightweight drone will be much more extensive.
I don't think an apology was really needed but I do respect you for offering one. :-) No problem.
I do think there may still come a time for America to turn around; democracy has looked ready to fail before (1786, 1860) and our ancestors muddled through.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
Maybe we could if someone could provide linkage to it. Don't misunderstand...I'm not for it, but you're claims of these statements ("never" use drones on Americans...and we all flipped out....and "never" be used domestically) seem to be lacking. Maybe that's why "no one else remembers either".
Just another day in Paradise