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Fake Antivirus Scams Spread To Android

SharkLaser writes "Fake antivirus scams have plagued Windows and Mac OS X during the last couple of years. Now it seems like such scams have spread to Android. Fake antivirus scams on Android work the same as they do on PC's — a user with an Android phone downloads an application or visits a website that says that the user's device is infected with malware. It will then show a fake scan of the system and return hard-coded 'positives' and gives the option the option to buy antivirus software that will 'remove' the malware on the affected system. Android, which is based on Linux, has been plagued with malware earlier too. According to McAfee, almost all new mobile malware now targets Android. Android app stores, including the official one from Google, has also been hosting hundreds of trojan applications that send premium rate SMSes on behalf of unsuspecting users."

236 comments

  1. Antivirus as a sign of failure by bonch · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I always believed that the day antivirus software becomes a universally accepted requirement the way it is on Windows is the day the platform has failed and missed the whole point of mobile operating systems. The point is to get away from the big mess of the desktop--the constant maintenance, driver updates, antivirus updates, defragmenters, and other utilities. Mobile operating systems are an opportunity to use a computer just to get things done, not to maintain the computer. That's what was so refreshing about the experience of the using the iPad and why it was such a surprise success to everyone including me.

    1. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by tqk · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Mobile operating systems are an opportunity to use a computer just to get things done, not to maintain the computer. That's what was so refreshing about the experience of the using the iPad ...

      Why the !@#$ does it always have to come down to Apple iBaubles save the world?!?

      Damn, man, if you'd bothered to run Linux/FLOSS all this time, you could have just fscking ignored the whole malware situation entirely, as I've been able to FOR THE LAST TWO DECADES!

      Jeebus.

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
    2. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Damn, man, if you'd bothered to run Linux/FLOSS all this time, you could have just fscking ignored the whole malware situation entirely.

      You mean like Android? No matter what the adoption rate of Linux or even OpenBSD, you're still going to have dumb users. When you need 'sudo' to install a new app. That same command can be used to install anything.

    3. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by buchner.johannes · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Which is why sudo is being replaced by a policy-based system (some users may have package install rights, network configure rights etc.).

      --
      NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
    4. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by chrb · · Score: 3, Informative

      When you need 'sudo' to install a new app.

      You don't. There have been GUI application installers on Linux for over a decade.

    5. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by bonch · · Score: 0

      Damn, man, if you'd bothered to run Linux/FLOSS all this time, you could have just fscking ignored the whole malware situation entirely, as I've been able to FOR THE LAST TWO DECADES!

      What operating system do you think Android is running on?

    6. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by Overly+Critical+Guy · · Score: 5, Funny

      "Apple iBaulbes"...check.
      "fscking"...check.
      "Linux/FLOSS"...check.
      "Jeebus"...check.
      Ayn Rand quote in sig...check.

      Are you some kind of Linux stereotype character actor?

      --
      "Sufferin' succotash."
    7. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by Overly+Critical+Guy · · Score: 0

      This is about Android.

      --
      "Sufferin' succotash."
    8. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Damn, man, if you'd bothered to run Linux/FLOSS all this time, you could have just fscking ignored the whole malware situation entirely, as I've been able to FOR THE LAST TWO DECADES!

      Two decades ago, you had to edit XF86Config just to get your scroll wheel working, and you could fry your monitor if you entered the wrong clock rats. Linux on the desktop has been a disaster up until just a few years ago, and it still has yet to catch up to the big boys. It's a server/embedded OS. There's nothing wrong with that!

      Also, /facepalm at the downmods of the OP.

    9. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 1, Insightful

      >Can't wait until after work to check Facebook
      >Need to show others my "apps" to define my personality for me

      Stay Classy, smartphone users.

    10. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ayn Rand quote in sig...check.

      Are you some kind of Linux stereotype character actor?

      Those wacky, hyper-collectivist, free as in beer and in speech, one-for-the-many, we hate personal ownership of any kind, capitalism is killing us... Ayn Rand fans?

      Does not compute.

    11. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by Goaway · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Which does absolutely nothing when computers on average have one user.

    12. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's why you define rights for each application instead of giving applications all the rights of the user.

    13. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by froggymana · · Score: 1

      Damn, man, if you'd bothered to run Linux/FLOSS all this time, you could have just fscking ignored the whole malware situation entirely, as I've been able to FOR THE LAST TWO DECADES!

      What operating system do you think Android is running on?

      My guess would be Android. If you mean what kernel do you think Android is running on, I would say the Linux kernel.

      --
      "To prevent this day from getting any worse, I'll just read ERROR as GOOD THING" 1GJU8xLuDKDxEs4KLf8fAGyptoDsqvEsBT
    14. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes. Why didn't Android devs put full thought into having ACLs and the such? I think something like solaris's pfexec! Perfect. I mean the average android phone has probably what, 100, 1,000, 10,000 concurrent users?

    15. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      Are you some kind of Linux stereotype character actor?

      I'm pretty sure you won't find a lot of Ayn Rand fans among Linux users who have graduated.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    16. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by deathguppie · · Score: 1

      Those installers all need root privileges, so sudo is there one way or the other. The thing about android isn't the privileges issue. In order to install something off the web you need to allow it in the settings. No the issue is that people trust android market place. Hell if you can't trust it what is the point of using it. Google needs to do a better job of vetting apps. That coming from me.. a loyal googlite.. all praise be to the mystic goog who knows all and is all...

      --
      once more into the breach
    17. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by deathguppie · · Score: 1

      I try as a rule never to enter clock rats, regardless of whether they are the right ones or the wrong ones..

      --
      once more into the breach
    18. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      and it still has yet to catch up to the big boys

      Why does Linux need to "catch up to the big boys"?

      I'm surprised to see this point of view infect so many Slashdot users: The only thing that can possibly validate any tool you use is that a large percentage of the world has to use the exact same tool. Gibson and Fender are the two of the largest, best-known guitar manufacturers on the planet. If I have guitar hand-built by the finest luthier in East of the Mississippi, should I feel bad because my guitar was not made by one of the "big boys"?

      Last time I checked, there wasn't a lot that can be done with OSX or Windows that cannot be done on Linux. Except maybe get the Vista 2012 Antivirus hostage-ware or spend $3500 on a medium-powered desktop.

      You just don't have to judge yourself based upon whether or not you do what the rest of the world does. Even in technology.

      Especially in technology.

      Android works great if you're not an idiot. iOS works great if you are an idiot. Quick: which do you choose?

      I'll stop back later for your answer. Please show your work.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    19. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by Luckyo · · Score: 2

      You can give person freedom, and he may kill himself by being stupid.
      You can put the person in a straightacket into a padded room and not be as worried.

      Or you can find middle ground rather then painting everything black and white.

    20. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by stephanruby · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I always believed that the day antivirus software becomes a universally accepted requirement the way it is on Windows...

      That day occurred when Outlook would run malicious scripts by default found in received email messages, that had access to the entire OS/hard drive, without any needed user intervention.

      For Android, I'm not sure that day has arrived yet, the article is derived from the press release of an antivirus company. Of course, it's going to imply that you absolutely need to buy *their* product (instead of using a little bit of street sense).

      Now never mind that Google already has the capability of uninstalling malware from Android that was previously downloaded from their Market (or that you can already download a "Kid Mode" launcher to prevent your kids from installing anything, or just press a button to reset your phone to wipe everything and restore it to its factory settings). Does McAfee think it can act much faster than google in identifying and removing malware? Personally, I doubt that. And never mind that an Android user actually has to locate and tick the checkbox for installing apps from unknown sources (which AT&T doesn't let you do anyway), and then has to accept the permissions to install the application in the first place.

      It's not like on the iPhone/iPad where you just need to go to a web page with some jpeg image on it and then your iDevice is magically rooted, and then the iPhone user is free to install any type of malware he wants (McAfee or no McAfee). That's one of the reasons that the McAfee anti-virus software on iOS is even more useless on iOS than on Android, since it can't run in the background and it can't even be scheduled to run at different times. On iOS, it couldn't prevent you from going to a malicious site even if it wanted to.

    21. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1

      Rats? Why do you think I let my cat use the keyboard - it is not just to accept EULA's, you know!

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    22. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by bonch · · Score: 0

      Operating system is a vague term that necessarily changes over time as the default software distributions that ship with computers change in scope. Even Wikipedia defines Linux to be a "UNIX-like computer operating system," and even if you disagree with that, the FLOSS qualifier in the post you're replying to refers to the rest of the software suite that most would consider to be the operating system, in the same way the term GNU/Linux does.

    23. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by Psicopatico · · Score: 2

      I have guitar hand-built by the finest luthier in East of the Mississippi

      But... does that run Linux?

      --
      Mastering the English language is fucking easy: all you have to do is to put an f* word in every fucking sentence.
    24. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by bonch · · Score: 1, Insightful

      For non-techies, a curated software store is the middle-ground. It's third-party software you are free to choose from but vetted by the vendor, which filters a lot of potential problems. The mass deregulation represented by the Android third-party software platform is itself a black-and-white position, often argued for from a freedom perspective. Going back to your post, what if the person you give the freedom to is maliciously tricked into killing themselves? Just as we have an FDA to regulate food, and we have regulatory agencies for other industries, there is value in standards and quality control for software applications. We even have comment moderation on Slashdot to prevent the inevitable degeneration of discussions into a cesspool.

    25. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by chrb · · Score: 1

      You don't need sudo to install apps on Android.

    26. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Yes, called, if I remember correctly, "gkSUDO".

    27. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by chrb · · Score: 1

      As far as I know, the vast majority of these "malware apps" are found on random external sites, most of which are supposedly based in China (or at least targeting Chinese users). Certainly, if McAfee is reporting that they have found tens of thousands of these malware apps, then these aren't apps which were available on the official Android Market. The malware that has been found on the official Android Market is in the scale of tens of apps, not thousands.

    28. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by Rhodri+Mawr · · Score: 1

      Oblig xkcd reference: Voting Machines

      http://xkcd.com/463/

    29. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hm?
      Graduated from what?
      Does a BSc in CS count?

    30. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What operating system do you think Android is running on?

      The OS is called Android. Try not to confuse the Linux kernel for an OS.

    31. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by tqk · · Score: 2

      Speaking of classy ... how do you feel about niggers?

      I'm sorry, but your version of reality hasn't been supported since about half way through the 19th century. You need to upgrade to civilized-stable to expect continued support.

      So, what do you think about goldfish?

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
    32. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You've polled both of them have you?

    33. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by tqk · · Score: 1

      "Apple iBaulbes"...check.
      "fscking"...check.
      "Linux/FLOSS"...check.
      "Jeebus"...check.
      Ayn Rand quote in sig...check.

      Are you some kind of Linux stereotype character actor?

      I wish.

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
    34. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by tqk · · Score: 0

      Linux on the desktop has been a disaster up until just a few years ago ...

      Yet, I've managed quite well with it for more than two decades. How is that?

      Perhaps, if you'd take the time to read a few manpages, search a few on-line knowledge bases, read a bit of the supplied documentation (regardless of how well written it may be), or ask someone who uses it to help, you too could get it to work for you?

      Nah, takes too long. Where's the DWIM[*] key, FFS?!?

      I don't give a rat's ass if you can't/won't use it. As long as I can, I'm happy. "Linux on the desktop", ha, haa ha, hahahaha ...

      "lusers" can be pretty funny some times.

      [*] Do what I mean!

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
    35. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      But... does that run Linux?

      It's a handheld guitar, it runs Android.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    36. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Graduated from what?
      Does a BSc in CS count?

      No, a BSc in CS does not count.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    37. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but will it blend?

    38. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by perryizgr8 · · Score: 1

      The point is to get away from the big mess of the desktop--the constant maintenance, driver updates, antivirus updates, defragmenters, and other utilities.

      i don't get it. hardly anyone does any of those things today. there's no maintenance needed unless its a hardware failure. driver updates happen automatically, antivirus updates happen automatically, defragger runs automatically. this is true for both windows and osx. personally, i find that ios dumbs it down too much, restricting the usefulness of my device. for example, you simply can't use the swype keyboard on an iphone.

      --
      Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
    39. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by chrb · · Score: 1

      Security policies can be configured by file paths and processes as well as user id. See Security-Enhanced Linux, AppArmor, etc.

    40. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by chrb · · Score: 1
      They did. Android implements security policies for each app. Requested permissions are defined in a manifest file. Every app runs with a different uid. See Android Security and Permissions:

      Android is a privilege-separated operating system, in which each application runs with a distinct system identity (Linux user ID and group ID). Parts of the system are also separated into distinct identities. Linux thereby isolates applications from each other and from the system.

      Additional finer-grained security features are provided through a "permission" mechanism that enforces restrictions on the specific operations that a particular process can perform, and per-URI permissions for granting ad-hoc access to specific pieces of data. Security Architecture

      A central design point of the Android security architecture is that no application, by default, has permission to perform any operations that would adversely impact other applications, the operating system, or the user. This includes reading or writing the user's private data (such as contacts or e-mails), reading or writing another application's files, performing network access, keeping the device awake, etc.

      Because Android sandboxes applications from each other, applications must explicitly share resources and data. They do this by declaring the permissions they need for additional capabilities not provided by the basic sandbox. Applications statically declare the permissions they require, and the Android system prompts the user for consent at the time the application is installed. Android has no mechanism for granting permissions dynamically (at run-time) because it complicates the user experience to the detriment of security.

      ...

      At install time, Android gives each package a distinct Linux user ID. The identity remains constant for the duration of the package's life on that device. On a different device, the same package may have a different UID; what matters is that each package has a distinct UID on a given device.

    41. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by w0mprat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Before anyone claims iOS is "secure" and free from malware, Chris Miller, a security researcher managed to get a malicious app APPROVED by Apple, then go on to demonstrate it taking over a phone. IMHO Apples process helps but, actually lulls users into a false sense of security, which undoes some of the benefits. Security has always been 90% a user education problem. Apples actually made some of that worse.

      (Nevermind that objective-C is an obscure language and Apple just could feasibly review every single line of code. It's not logistically possible.)

      Android has a pretty sophisticated security model, compared to anything running the desktop space. Actual root never needs to be given up for a huge range of modifications to the system. There's policy based access so users can see and restricted what apps will have access to. Apps also run in their own userid and can be restricted from accessing the users data. Brilliant stuff.

      So if the platform has malware on it, and it's the most secure thing out there in the mainstream... then what is wrong?

      Due to it's popularity Android is a juicy target for the malware ecosystem, and like natural ecosystems, it'll adapt to any hardened defenses if there's nourishment to be had. Google was silly to not fully anticipate this.

      For now there is no actual need for anti-virus anti-malware tools on Android for most users. But as always, the problem is a user education problem.

      --
      After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
    42. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice straw man.

      Linux is a kernel. People also call it an operating system, but technically a distro is the OS (because it bundles the userland stuff.)

      You *might* get away with calling Android a Linux distro, but that would be stretching it. The userland space is set up quite differently.

      On a higher level, you can look at the attacks on Android versus Linux. They are almost all "dancing bunny" attacks, where the user is the one who causes the problem. No OS can prevent this unless it yanks control from the user.

      iOS does this well. Extremely well. So, if someone wants to lose control of stuff they own to a party that might be hostile to their interests, sure, go for it. At least most Android devices, root is obtainable, and a good portion of Android devices can get CyanogenMod installed which provides top notch security, and allows the user full access to the device they paid for. Yes, the user paid for the phone... either directly, or as part of a contract.

    43. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by JayAEU · · Score: 1

      Two decades ago? I vividly remember having to do that as recently as 10 years ago!

    44. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      iOS. Because there has never been a single failure in its security system that has been maliciously exploited in the wild. Oh, JBs != malicious exploits.

    45. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by NiceGeek · · Score: 0

      "It's not like on the iPhone/iPad where you just need to go to a web page with some jpeg image on it and then your iDevice is magically rooted"

      1. It was a PDF
      2. Apple patched that hole weeks (maybe months) ago.

      Try to keep up, ol' chum.

    46. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wonder if the best solution to this problem would be a vetted repo and a free-for-all repo. The vetted one would have apps and their updates that would be run through a number of black box checks, including checks for obfuscation before being accepted. The free-for-all would be the present day Android Market. The top tier would be similar to Amazon's market. By default, devices would only allow buying from the vetted repo/market. A user would have to go through a dialog of being warned that they are in relatively dangerous 0.0 space if they decide to go to the free-for-all market, and a flag can be set with the Google account to prevent access to that market as well.

      Presto: Walled garden with the padded rooms, but users can always leave if they are clued enough to remember the safeword.

    47. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by CAIMLAS · · Score: 1

      You realize that sudo can be set up to give granular permissions to different things, right?

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    48. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by tqk · · Score: 1

      So, what do you think about goldfish?

      I think they're smarter than niggers.

      Stupid, stupid, stupid, ...

      What is your major malfunction? How may we help?

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
    49. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by hairyfeet · · Score: 1, Interesting

      And this will work on a personal cell phone....how exactly? Are you gonna take away people's right to own their machines and instead have to get approval from a Google "Genius" or whatever you want to call them before they are allowed to modify their own devices? i think that is pretty much 180 degrees in opposition to the stated purpose of FOSS which was to give the USERS and not the manufacturers control of the system, going all the way back to that first printer RMS wasn't allowed to have the code for.

      Lets face it folks it really does come down to only TWO choices, one you let the user decide and then just like real life dumb users will do dumb things and smart users smart things, just like on Windows now, or you let the corporations have COMPLETE control which as we've seen time and time again turns into "its for your own good" which always ends up translating to "its in corporate interests".

      Sorry but Linux isn't a magical woobie that keeps nasty old viruses away, its an OS just like any other and TFA proves that given enough users it WILL get pwned just like any other OS. We are talking millions of lines of code folks, and guys that make serious bank when they find a flaw in that code, this really shouldn't be surprising to anyone but the same type that thought because Apple "thought different" they were immune to all bugs too. We have a term for that, its called "magical thinking" and while its made several companies rich with sales pitches like "Just use (insert product) and never have to worry about security again!" IRL it simply doesn't work. there is no magical OS, no magical pill, that will make all flaws disappear and give all users degrees in Internet Security.

      Personally I'd rather deal with dumb users than have to give up the right to choose what to run on my systems, wouldn't you?

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    50. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "An operating system (OS) is a set of programs that manage computer hardware resources and provide common services for application software."

      "Linux (i/lnks/ lin-ks or /lnks/ lin-uuks) is a Unix-like computer operating system assembled under the model of free and open source software development and distribution."

      Linux is absolutely, 100% an operating system.

    51. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      Android is Linux and Linux's first foray into the mainstream has proven to be insecure. It still has the weakpoint that any other OS can have and that's a stupid owner sitting behind the keyboard.

    52. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by buchner.johannes · · Score: 1

      You misunderstood. When a PolicyKit authorization dialog pops up, you give an application the right to configure the network (but no other root rights). So even if there is a virus embedded, it may not be able to do anything because it is locked in according to what it will need for the expected functionality.

      --
      NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
    53. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      I'm surprised to see this point of view infect so many Slashdot users: The only thing that can possibly validate any tool you use is that a large percentage of the world has to use the exact same tool. Gibson and Fender are the two of the largest, best-known guitar manufacturers on the planet. If I have guitar hand-built by the finest luthier in East of the Mississippi, should I feel bad because my guitar was not made by one of the "big boys"?

      In case you haven't noticed video gamers and PC enthusiasts are some of the biggest brand whores in the world. They're also the most ignorant and see everything in black and white.

    54. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by BasilBrush · · Score: 2

      only TWO choices

      Only two huh?

      COMPLETE control

      Must be complete huh? Partial control isn't possible?

      I'm afraid you're is the fallacious argument of "false dilemma"

      Sorry but Linux isn't a magical woobie that keeps nasty old viruses away, its an OS just like any other and TFA proves that given enough users it WILL get pwned just like any other OS. We are talking millions of lines of code folks, and guys that make serious bank when they find a flaw in that code, this really shouldn't be surprising to anyone but the same type that thought because Apple "thought different" they were immune to all bugs too. We have a term for that, its called "magical thinking" and while its made several companies rich with sales pitches like "Just use (insert product) and never have to worry about security again!" IRL it simply doesn't work. there is no magical OS, no magical pill, that will make all flaws disappear and give all users degrees in Internet Security.

      Strange then that OSX has less viruses after 11 years than Android has after 3. And iOS doesn't have any.

    55. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by BasilBrush · · Score: 0

      If Windows doesn't need maintenance any more, how come friends running Windows still complain to me that their PCs have ground to a halt and ask if I can help them?

      (I don't even try to help them any more. I just tell them I switched to Mac 10 years ago and can't remember how to fix Windows. Which isn't true. The truth is I switched in part because I didn't want to waste time maintaining Windows any more, so I'm certainly not going to end up maintaining their machines for them.)

      Actually all these "happens automatically" things you mention are half the problem. All these apps running services trying to phone home at boot up means it's a long time after boot up before a Windows machine becomes responsive.

      On the final issue, the rock solid reliability of iOS is worth more than any number of "swype keyboard" customisations.

    56. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by BasilBrush · · Score: 0

      Charlie Miller's app was removed from the app store as soon as it was discovered to be other than what it claimed, and Miller's developer rights were forfeited.

      Which is another circle of security Android doesn't have. Once malware becomes known of, Apple can stop it in it's tracks, such that no-one else suffers.

      Google could do the same with it's own Android store, but not all the other Android stores out there.

    57. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by sgt+scrub · · Score: 1

      IMHO that is where the went wrong. UID and GID separation sucks. They need true sandbox separation, chroot.

      --
      Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
    58. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by PieceOfShitAndroid · · Score: 0

      Android works great if you're not an idiot. iOS works great if you are an idiot. Quick: which do you choose?

      Android is great if you're an idiot developer. You don't know what you're missing. iOS is great if you are not an idiot developer. Quick: Which do you choose?

    59. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by TheLink · · Score: 1

      And which user is going to set up those policies?

      The default AppArmor config on Ubuntu for Firefox was rather lax when I last checked it - it was more of a blacklist approach than whitelist approach- a pwned browser process could access everything the user could except a few directories.

      --
    60. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Android is great if you're an idiot developer. You don't know what you're missing. iOS is great if you are not an idiot developer. Quick: Which do you choose?

      Well, what kind of developer doesn't know how to close a blockquote html tag?

      So, you must be an Android developer, huh?

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    61. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by RobertLTux · · Score: 1

      I would like to take this opportunity to state that

      PEOPLE ARE CATTLE and whatever name given to the lower range intelligence members of each "race" should not be applied to ALL members of each race.

      I would put odds that someone that is that hung up on "nigger" is a hayseed redneck (or is trying to upgrade to HR status).

      But The real fight is making sure that the Cattle are protected enough but we Dogs/Wolves can get things done.

      --
      Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
    62. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by perryizgr8 · · Score: 1

      rock solid reliability my ass. my friend's iphone 3g got upgraded to ios4. sucked so much that he went and bought an htc within twenty days. and the problem with ios is you can either go and buy a new overpriced device every year or you can't download any apps. at least my 5800 still functions excellently and i can still find apps that you still can't install on an iphone. like swype, or a bittorrent client.

      On the final issue, the rock solid reliability of iOS is worth more than any number of "swype keyboard" customisations.

      maybe *you* don't need a smartphone, but i do! i've been saying this forever: iphones are not smartphones. they are just overpriced, overhyped, shiny toys with *very* basic features. anyone who actually needs a general purpose computer in their pocket can't stay satisfied with an iphone. ask yourself: what features do you actually use on your iphone that were not available in a sony ericsson feature phone at the time the first (horribly limited) iphone was launched?

      If Windows doesn't need maintenance any more, how come friends running Windows still complain to me that their PCs have ground to a halt and ask if I can help them?

      because maybe all those guys are idiots or something. my laptop is working fine. my brother's laptop is working fine. most of my friends' laptops are working fine. the last virus my pc had was ~9 years ago. and it wasn't much of a hassle to remove it either. 90% of the world's pcs are working fine, if they weren't they would have switched by now.

      Actually all these "happens automatically" things you mention are half the problem. All these apps running services trying to phone home at boot up means it's a long time after boot up before a Windows machine becomes responsive.

      now i have never used osx for an extended period of time, but i'm sure it has as many background auto tasks as windows has, if not more. and i suspect apple sneaks on you much more than microsoft does. if defragging and driver updates are not happening in the background on osx, then its a very shitty os. i'm sure it does these things and a lot more. also, what version of windows did you last use?? are you sure it was not win 98? because vista onwards the system is responsive the moment the desktop is visible.

      --
      Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
    63. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      You know about as much of what you are talking about as your lack of grammar skills suggests.

      Slashdot needs an entry exam.

    64. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by perryizgr8 · · Score: 1

      english is not my first language. but i'm sure i did not make such a big error in my post that the reader would not be able to understand the meaning behind my words.
      ps- i probably score higher than you in SAT.

      --
      Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
    65. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by BasilBrush · · Score: 0

      English doesn't have to be your first language for you to know you start sentences with a capital letter.

      Are SATs multiple choice? Because if they are written you wouldn't get very far.

    66. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Last time I checked, there wasn't a lot that can be done with OSX or Windows that cannot be done on Linux.

      How about playing modern games, listening to HD audio (without having to write Bash scripts and mess with audio servers).

    67. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by perryizgr8 · · Score: 1

      O_o o_O
      we seem to have a troll at hand! i simply must stop replying to scum like this!

      --
      Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
    68. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by tepples · · Score: 1

      Just as we have an FDA to regulate food, and we have regulatory agencies for other industries, there is value in standards and quality control for software applications.

      In the FDA regulated environment, one needs a doctorate from one of the schools in the AMA-endorsed cabal to even get started. If you were to apply the FDA regulatory model to software, should one be forced to sit on one's hands all through high school and then pay tens of thousands of dollars for software engineer school just to be able to make a simple little app?

    69. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by Galestar · · Score: 1

      This just in: Antivirus apps exist for Mac and iPhone as well. Sorry to shoot down your arguments.

      --
      AccountKiller
    70. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I always believed that the day you could not easily install and run anything that you want on your operating system is the day the platform has failed and missed the whole point of being an operating system.

    71. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL, is that why a iP4 decided to black screen of death in the middle of a call with me (he didn't know how to reset it)? Or icons vanish from your homescreen? Or Facebook stopped working for one friend for a time (wouldn't connect at all, though her sister was fine) and another friend had FB crash while I was watching (he was trying to demonstrate the overscroll refresh)? And this is me, not caring talking specifically about crashes or issues; they've either come to me or I've witnessed them. This is just two people over the course of 6-8 months.

      All the stable applications on my phones are stable. Just like any other device with stable applications on those devices. I've been through a few SE flip phones since about 8 years ago, and games and applications even back then didn't crash.

      Also, are you saying that programs that start at boot are an issue? Wouldn't that apply to all computers? As far as I know, every OS out there is capable of customizing which applications start at boot -- not just Windows.

    72. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Numbers please? And preferably not from a site that's a fanboy from either side.

      Or are you going to nitpick between viruses that do bad stuff and "malware" that do the same bad stuff (but aren't viruses because they don't require / use root/admin privileges (i.e. user clicks yes to install)?

      You might not have heard about the malware, but they exist. They might not be common (as with Android, not very common), but there's quite a number of them out there.

    73. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by SiChemist · · Score: 1

      I think the real problems is that users ignore the security permissions that apps request. Nobody seems to read any warnings that come with technology. I can't tell you the number of times I've watched users on Windows systems blindly clicking "ok" to any dialog box that pops up without bothering to read it.

    74. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      You DO realize that they could pop up a message that has buried in the EULA "FYI we are gonna come by and bang your wife and sell your kids into slavery" and people would pick "Yes please give me the funny screensaver LOL!" don't you? ALL you are doing is adding an extra step, the same extra step that Windows has been adding since 07, the same extra step Linux has been adding for ages, and it still doesn't work because in the end you have to have a user that 1.-actually gives a shit, and 2.- has taken the time to actually understand what is being asked of him/her which we have seen is MAYBE 3% of the population, the rest will click on whatever pops up and be pissed AT YOU for making them have to click.

      But please read this article as Atwood at coding horror lays out the problem better than I ever could. if you don't believe this is real and applies to the VAST MAJORITY you really should stop in your local mom & pop shop and ask them to tell you about stupid and or dangerous users, we have stories that would turn your hair white! For the first time in my history I had to be rude to a customer last year and tell him to take his business elsewhere because after I explicitly spelled out that the program he wanted had been shut down by court order and that anything calling itself "the new limewire" was a virus he promptly took his machine home, searched for "the new limewire" and when the AV wouldn't let him install it uninstalled the AV and promptly got infected to the tune of over 100 pieces of malware than had the gall to get pissy because i couldn't magically make this non existent software work!

      Why did that happen? Because he LIKED Limewire, he WANTED Limewire, and every single thing that didn't involve him getting it went in one ear and out the other. Now I'm lucky in that I've "trained" for lack of a better word, my customers to "When it doubt call my guy and see what he says" and unlike some of the more scummy guys in the biz I do my damnedest to steer them away from the nasties. But if you think you can permission your way out of this again it all boils down to TWO choices, 1.- The user has the right to elevate permissions which means no matter how many roadblocks and passwords you put if the user wants to see the bunny they WILL install it, or 2.-You give the rights ONLY to the corporates which quickly turn it into "That against corporate interests" and then you get the horror stories like you read here constantly of being trapped having to do something back asswards because some BOFH decided that having common sense is against policy.

      I really wish there was a door number three, i really do, but after doing this line of work since the days of Win 3.x and looking my ass off I sure as hell haven't found it.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    75. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by dudpixel · · Score: 1

      why cant we have both?

      ie. a curated software store and the ability to side-load apps after pressing a button which pops up a big fat warning message.

      I think Google should at the very least install automated checking of apps, and preferably start manually testing apps and "approving" them.
      Maybe another option would be to have all apps available, but those that have been tested have an icon next to them to show they are 'approved'.

      --
      This seemed like a reasonable sig at the time.
    76. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by dudpixel · · Score: 1

      It may still be relevant. My wife has an iphone and it only gets updated when I do it. I dont keep up to date with apple news and it doesn't get plugged into the pc for any reason other than to charge it, or update it, and even when charging, we dont use itunes except to specifically update the phone...

      so basically there are probably many apple devices that are only patched when the user initiates it, and there are a lot of users that wouldn't know they were supposed to even check for updates. If they use itunes, then they'll see the update notifications (but at a couple hundred MB, many wont download it). It took a few goes for my pc to download it last time, since apple's servers are often slow (or at least its slow for me to download from them, on a 12Mbps link).

      None of this is meant to be a criticism - since the problem is often worse for other platforms anyway. I'm just giving examples for why the iOS security holes may not disappear from the wild immediately after apple issues a patch.

      --
      This seemed like a reasonable sig at the time.
    77. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by dudpixel · · Score: 1

      Charlie Miller's app was removed from the app store as soon as it was discovered to be other than what it claimed, and Miller's developer rights were forfeited.

      Which is another circle of security Android doesn't have. Once malware becomes known of, Apple can stop it in it's tracks, such that no-one else suffers.

      Google could do the same with it's own Android store, but not all the other Android stores out there.

      But in the second case, the problem is not the fault of android nor Google. Unless you see freedom of choice as a disadvantage...

      You either have freedom with all the pros and cons, or you have no freedom (with all the pros and cons).

      In the case of Android and iOS, neither is best or worst, just different. They will each appeal to different people.

      To revisit your example: If I install a dodgy app from a store outside of Google, then its likely my own fault. I cannot blame Google any more than fat people can legitimately blame mcdonalds. But then I guess this is why people will blame Google for it...because apparently not banning something is the same as supporting and encouraging it.

      --
      This seemed like a reasonable sig at the time.
    78. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by dudpixel · · Score: 1

      oops, I misread the overall view of the above post - you're talking about the platform, not apple and google.

      my apologies...and you are correct...and my reply was offtopic for this particular thread.

      --
      This seemed like a reasonable sig at the time.
    79. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by Vegemeister · · Score: 1

      HD audio

      AHAHAHAHAhahahaha!

    80. Re:Antivirus as a sign of failure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      linux is the best, whatever any of u say or will have to say, and that,s a fact ! i never going to use any windowa app,s total waist, antivirus just one other money spinner ? god bless u all. wolf

  2. So, use only WiFi-connected Android tablets... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One reason has earlier been: To preclude the need to keep up 2 SIMs & their associated mobile accounts (1 for phone, 1 for Android tablet)

    Now, there's another reason for a WiFi-only Android tablet: To preclude the worry about malware spending user's money with SMS's, etc.

    That's a Feature... not a malware-related "bug" :-)

  3. Couple of years? by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 1
    Summary:

    ...last couple of years.

    Extortionware has been around for a decade, at least.

    1. Re:Couple of years? by stephanruby · · Score: 5, Informative

      McAfee should know, it's one of them too.

      Their free trial virus scanner does the same thing, it's just slightly more subtle about it. I appreciate the fact that it helps clean up cookies, and I hate ad-network cookies as much as the next guy, but labeling each ad-network cookie as a separate infection is only designed to oversell what it does, and alarm non-technical users into ponying up more money for their over-priced software.

      And eventually, their software behaves just like most malware anyway. It nags you every year for you to pay to resubscribe. It continually runs in the background slowing down your computer in everything it tries to do. And it ends up stealing a good portion of screen real estate away from a non-sophisticated user, who usually doesn't know how to remove it from his/her internet browser.

      Not to mention that on a mobile device, it will also suck the battery dry.
           

    2. Re:Couple of years? by causality · · Score: 2

      I appreciate the fact that it helps clean up cookies, and I hate ad-network cookies as much as the next guy

      That's a job better performed by tools like Adblock Plus, a comprehensive /etc/hosts (or equiv.) file, various cookie management add-ons (or your browser's blocklist), session cookies only, and other measures that target the actual issue. That is much more effective and makes a great deal more sense than using a virus scanner for something that is not a virus.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
  4. Walled gardens.. by wbr1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I hate a fucking walled garden as much as the next guy, but this type of shit is why users will stay with one. Not that a walled garden can't be hijacked, hacked, or otherwise messed with, but by and large it is a cleaner place to be. It is a win-win, both or users who can't, won't, or are too dumb to be bothered with learning a little software/hardware safety, and with corporations who thrive on control and stifling competition.

    --
    Silence is a state of mime.
    1. Re:Walled gardens.. by Threni · · Score: 1

      Why would you want to avoid Android just because other Android users might make bad choices? Why would you care how easily a clueless user can click on `yes, install some random crap which claims to be a virus-checker`? I don't.

    2. Re:Walled gardens.. by buchner.johannes · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I hate a fucking walled garden as much as the next guy, but this type of shit is why users will stay with one. Not that a walled garden can't be hijacked, hacked, or otherwise messed with, but by and large it is a cleaner place to be. It is a win-win, both or users who can't, won't, or are too dumb to be bothered with learning a little software/hardware safety, and with corporations who thrive on control and stifling competition.

      You can have a "walled garden" for users (some Android companies have their Appstores), yet still allow people to leave on their own risk. It's not mutually exclusive.
      For instance you can install packages from repos in Linux, yet you can also download and install source packages with {./configure&&make&&make install;} if you don't mind the risk of screwing up your system. There is no need to lock out users from their phones.

      Maybe you didn't mean "walled gardens" but cared-for repos anyway.

      --
      NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
    3. Re:Walled gardens.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So how does one know? All of this pontificating about dumb or lazy users doesn't really help. How do I distinguish a download of Uno, for example, that has embedded malware from one that doesn't?

    4. Re:Walled gardens.. by vlm · · Score: 2

      I'm a total noob to android (happily on Republic Wireless for like 8 days now) but even I know that on the market page, the requested permissions will be whacked out (like why would Uno need access to send SMS messages?). The other thing on the market page, unless you're the lucky first user, is you'll have low reviews and comments complaining about how the app is a SMS spam sender etc etc.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    5. Re:Walled gardens.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here's an analogy for you:

      If you somebody can't be trusted with reality enough, to survive outside of a cage of rubber walls ... then maybe that's where he belongs.

      I say let's take the warning labels, rubber padding and "it's for your own security" off of everything, and let the problem solve itself.

    6. Re:Walled gardens.. by wbr1 · · Score: 1

      Why would you want to avoid Android just because other Android users might make bad choices? Why would you care how easily a clueless user can click on `yes, install some random crap which claims to be a virus-checker`? I don't.

      Because the next time that user is going to go to a corporate big brother that filter feeds him what he wants, and in the process that big brother gains more money and power over the free and open solution.

      --
      Silence is a state of mime.
    7. Re:Walled gardens.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You aren't putting your data at risk, unless you are sharing your android phone with some idiot. The user that is smart enough to download from sources he trusts, check the reviews, watch for unnecessary permissions etc... is not at risk from these scams.

    8. Re:Walled gardens.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The other thing on the market page, unless you're the lucky first user, is you'll have low reviews and comments complaining about how the app is a SMS spam sender etc etc.

      Only a greedy idiot would write a trojan app that immediately started misbehaving.
      Anyone with an ounce of sense would add in a 'grace period' so the app appears normal to the user. That way, the app has a chance to build up a decent reviews, thus luring in even more users.

    9. Re:Walled gardens.. by Threni · · Score: 1

      I don't.

    10. Re:Walled gardens.. by macs4all · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You aren't putting your data at risk, unless you are sharing your android phone with some idiot. The user that is smart enough to download from sources he trusts, check the reviews, watch for unnecessary permissions etc... is not at risk from these scams.

      So, I can either just click a link on the iOS App Store and KNOW all that stuff has already been done for me, or waste two hours scouring the internet just to figure out whether some stupid egg timer app is going to sell my soul to the Ukraine right?

      I don't know about you; but my time is worth a lot more than that.

      The curated collection approach is not perfect; but it sure seems to work out quite well in the real world, where the rest of us live...

      Which I believe anyone who is not completely delusional would agree has not been the case so much for the Android "Wild West" approach. Note, for example, that Apple has never had to exercise its "Kill Switch" option for an App already in the Wild; whereas Google has had to do so on several occasions.

    11. Re:Walled gardens.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Posting AC so I don't undo my mods.

      However, a good chunk of the userbase is going to be dumb, but very vocal. They will install an app without reading reviews, give a blanket "OK" on permissions, then whine to all and sundry how Android is so insecure because it let them shoot themselves in their own foot.

      If you know what you are doing with Android, the phone can be a pretty secure platform. Droidwall ensures that unless you give an app the ability to communicate out, it won't (and apps that are bandwidth hogs, you can force only onto Wi-Fi connections). Ad-Free Android blocks by hosts file, and there are some utilities that will block by IP.

      However, what is attractive to the iPhone is that the environment is so restricted, so in theory people can't download anything that can hurt them.

      Wrong. Run iFirewall on a jailbroken iPhone, and your eyes will be opened. You will see tons of sites that are communicated with constantly by apps, and none of them have anything to do with what you are doing. If one of the apps decided to copy your contact list and upload it, nobody would be the wiser because there is no way to monitor/protect your device unless you JB it, and with 5.x, JB-ing is a pain in the ass.

      So, Apple wins here because apps can run wild without damage, while Android, rogue apps are found and one-starred immediately. Different ecosystems.

    12. Re:Walled gardens.. by macs4all · · Score: 1

      I don't.

      Oh, so you DO use iOS after all? ;-)

    13. Re:Walled gardens.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. Apple curates their garden, Android instead lets you self-curate by filling your screen with a manifest of what the app will have access to when you tap install. The latter looks like a EULA and 99% of users are going to click install no matter what it says.

    14. Re:Walled gardens.. by shellbeach · · Score: 4, Informative

      So how does one know? All of this pontificating about dumb or lazy users doesn't really help. How do I distinguish a download of Uno, for example, that has embedded malware from one that doesn't?

      One word: permissions. When you install an app on Android, you will be prompted with the permissions the app is requesting, and asked if you want to install it. You, the user, have a very good breakdown of exactly what an app can do before it gets installed. And for sending SMSes, it's extremely clear -- the permission is described first as "Services that cost you money" and will then list that it can send SMS messages. It should be obvious that Uno has no need to be sending SMSes on your behalf.

      So anyone who gets burnt by these schemes would have to (a) search for a dodgy "free" version of a popular paid app and (b) install it even when there was a warning that it was going to potentially send costly SMSes. I know there are suckers born every minute, but you'd have to be a really, really cheap and stupid one to get hit by this.

      Of course, potentially Google should have predicted this and included an "Allow always/allow once/reject" prompt the first time a third-party app attempts to make a phone call or send an SMS. It's probably not a bad idea ...

    15. Re:Walled gardens.. by VMSBIGOT · · Score: 1

      One problem I have read about on Android is that some 3rd party apps and even shovel-ware put on the phone by vendors is weak. Basically I could install a totally legit text messaging app and another app could invoke it to send messages on its behalf. So from a user standpoint, I approve the text messaging app to send SMS (legit) and later I install Uno. It could wait some random period of time and then start sending messages. This is actually preferred for the malware creators because then it also has another variable as when it would work (say its dependent on a carrier branded dialer, or some other 3rd party app).

      http://www.ei.rub.de/media/trust/veroeffentlichungen/2010/11/13/DDSW2010_Privilege_Escalation_Attacks_on_Android.pdf
      (Sorry, PDF)
      This has a pretty good explanation of the problem, and honestly I'm not sure if this could also work on an iOS device. (Can apps on iOS invoke another app?)

    16. Re:Walled gardens.. by IrrepressibleMonkey · · Score: 1

      I hate a ... walled garden as much as the next guy...

      I really wish that the "walled garden" metaphor would die.
      A walled garden, in the horticultural sense, provides no restriction to the freedoms of those wishing to enjoy it. It merely protects the garden from the elements. Is that really what you had in mind?
      I know that the phrase is being widely misused in technology circles, but we can rise above that, can't we?

    17. Re:Walled gardens.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't find a version of DroidWall that doesn't require root permissions, which on Android devices is the equivalent to jail-breaking; the same applies to modifying the hosts file on Android with or without an app.

    18. Re:Walled gardens.. by chrb · · Score: 5, Informative

      the iOS App Store and KNOW all that stuff has already been done for me

      Malicious app penetrates iTunes store to test security Miller's malware was on the Apple app store for over 2 months, so clearly the Apple store is vulnerable to the same sort of shenanigans as the Android market.

      Apple has never had to exercise its "Kill Switch" option for an App already in the Wild

      From the BBC article: "Apple declined to comment. It also removed the app and barred the developer from its store."

    19. Re:Walled gardens.. by shellbeach · · Score: 1

      So, I can either just click a link on the iOS App Store and KNOW all that stuff has already been done for me, or waste two hours scouring the internet just to figure out whether some stupid egg timer app is going to sell my soul to the Ukraine right?

      No, you spend two seconds looking at the permissions requested by the app you're installing. If you're installing something that sends SMSes to the Ukraine, then you'll be clearly warned about it before you install it. If you are truly unable to assess whether an app is requesting appropriate permissions, then you're probably better off with a curated/walled-garden approach; but most of us are more sensible than this.

    20. Re:Walled gardens.. by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Why would you put your private data at risk every day just to satisfy some childish ideological paranoia?

      So, you believe it's better to just give your private data away to a company with a walled garden than risking having it stolen due to your own stupidity?

      You can be safely enveloped in the hands of a walled garden. Just don't don't insist that the majority of us who want to make our own decisions be forced to do be part of that gated community.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    21. Re:Walled gardens.. by shellbeach · · Score: 1

      If one of the apps decided to copy your contact list and upload it, nobody would be the wiser because there is no way to monitor/protect your device unless you JB it, and with 5.x, JB-ing is a pain in the ass.

      The argument is that with curation from Apple, any app that seeks to do this will be found out and not allowed on the App Store. I'd still feel a lot safer if I could see what permissions each app was requesting, though -- there may be things that Apple feels OK with that I don't feel OK with. At least Android will tell you if a device wants to access your contacts.

    22. Re:Walled gardens.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Removing an app from the store is not the "kill switch." But no doubt you already knew that but needed to somehow make the poster be "wrong."

    23. Re:Walled gardens.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're installing something that sends SMSes to the Ukraine, then you'll be clearly warned about it before you install it. If you are truly unable to assess whether an app is requesting appropriate permissions, then you're probably better off with a curated/walled-garden approach; but most of us are more sensible than this.

      All the developer has to do to get around this is to add "The app is also able to sync with other phones using SMS" to the description. Then the careful user compares the permission list with the description and accepts it.

      This is why I really dislike coarse-grained sandboxes and broad questions with boolean answers (whether you accept all permissions without restrictions/modifications or none).

      This also shows that Apple's and Google's approaches to security are flawed. They trust the app developer, which is naive at best. They also trust their own developers, but I guess that EAL6-7 is too much to ask...

    24. Re:Walled gardens.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can download any app I want from the App Store and not worry. Until there are malicious apps in the wild, maybe things will change, but until then, realistically, iOS has proven to be 100% secure from malware. Heard of a compromised iPhone? They don't exist.

    25. Re:Walled gardens.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Rooting and jailbreaking are nowhere near the same thing.

      Rooting an Android device does nothing to weaken the security on the device. Permissions are still enforced, and the only thing a malicious app can do is request su access.

      Jailbreaking trashes the complete iOS security model completely. All apps run under the same UID, so if one app can climb out of its vacuum bed, it can wreak a lot of havoc, even without getting root. So, a JB-ed iPhone is fundamentally insecure in this regard. In theory, an app can try to write outside its directory, and if so, then go download a malicious payload to execute, even though both actions are verboten by Apple's approval guidelines, I'm sure Apple wouldn't be shedding any tears if jailbroken phones got trashed.

    26. Re:Walled gardens.. by danbob999 · · Score: 1

      You can have a walled garden in Android too, if you choose too. Just don't check the option to allow the installation of APKs from the outside of the Android market. It is also off by default.

    27. Re:Walled gardens.. by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      Apple has never had to exercise its "Kill Switch" option for an App already in the Wild

      From the BBC article: "Apple declined to comment. It also removed the app and barred the developer from its store."

      No "kill switch". You know, when Amazon decided to remove 1984 from everyone's devices. Or when Google force-uninstalled all those malware apps 2 or 3 times now.

      All Apple's done is removed an app from the App Store. If you bought the app, you can still use it and it's probably still in your iTunes library so you can reinstall it.

      In fact, we don't know if Apple can force-uninstall an app, or prevent you from using an app because Apple has never done it yet. We know the ability exists in CoreLocation, but does it require an app use CoreLocation or apply to any app?

    28. Re:Walled gardens.. by quacking+duck · · Score: 1

      The kilo, mega, giga etc terms have been misused for decades by the tech industry to (usually) mean 2^10, 2^20 etc instead of 10^3, 10^6, etc. Marketing only recently started reversing this to "correct" base-10 usage, as a means of delivering less capacity than technical people expect from hard drives and other storage systems.

      Good luck getting tech people to use "walled garden" correctly.

    29. Re:Walled gardens.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who has insisted that you must be forced to be part of our gated community? Who even invited you to be? His only point is that all this talk about Big Brother evidences a deep paranoia that makes the wall garden seem far more nefarious than it really is.

    30. Re:Walled gardens.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course, potentially Google should have predicted this and included an "Allow always/allow once/reject" prompt the first time a third-party app attempts to make a phone call or send an SMS. It's probably not a bad idea ...

      Which is why I'm still tied to my dinosaur Blackberry.
      When an app installs (or runs) on BB, the prompt says "Here's what the application wants" and I get to override the permissions requested by the app just as you outlined.

    31. Re:Walled gardens.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No the phrase is not being "misused". It has simply taken in a new meaning.

      You should be used to that by now. Geeks love inventing new words for stuff.

    32. Re:Walled gardens.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To go along with that, it's not possible for a group of people to miss-use a phrase/word as it takes on the meaning of what they're conveying. Language is a living thing, keep up or get left behind.

    33. Re:Walled gardens.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I bought a new Android phone last week. It came with some pre-installed games which have the "Services that cost you money" permission, and I had to root it to delete them. (And even then I believe they'll come right back if I have to reset to factory settings). It could be that I'm a cheap stupid sucker, but in this case I think it's more that the British telecom company 3 saw a chance to make a penny or two in some licensing deal and either didn't check the permissions or didn't care because it makes them more money.

    34. Re:Walled gardens.. by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      In fact, we don't know if Apple can force-uninstall an app, or prevent you from using an app because Apple has never done it yet. We know the ability exists in CoreLocation, but does it require an app use CoreLocation or apply to any app?

      Even if they didn't, they could of course do a false update for a malicious app, replacing it with an app that does nothing but say "This app has been disabled".

    35. Re:Walled gardens.. by vlm · · Score: 1

      Assuming its a long-used app like "G+" or ... what do people download and use forever... Maybe dedicated website addons like the ancestry.com app, but thats closely tied to a legit site not a bot farmer (It seems very reasonable to assume ancestry.com, my hometown bank, etc are not bot farmers).

      Imagine if the example Uno app is entertaining for 10 hours so I never play again after two weeks, making the zombie go off in two months isn't going to work well when I'm already long gone.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    36. Re:Walled gardens.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't forget Storm8 was harvesting personal information before someone caught them red handed, then then brought to the attention of big red.

      There's no telling what these applications will do. Sure you get a warning for your GPS (well, assuming they use the APIs and hadn't just simply read the publicly available GPS history file that was available to everyone) What about your contacts? Your login credentials? Browser cookies?

      Remember this: As long as you see even one legit application using said information, EVERY APP can (assuming there's no permission system like in Android or Blackberry) -- malicious or not.

    37. Re:Walled gardens.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not even true. Only the high profile applications will be seeked out and discovered. If it uses a common or similar malware library, then AV / google / whoever will most likely scan their library for that signature... just like all the other AVs out there now.

      Nobody is looking at the i store for malware. Sure it's "reviewed", but all you have to do is delay the payload for a little while until after the review is finished (just like the most recent case).

    38. Re:Walled gardens.. by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1

      Why would you care how easily a clueless user can click on `yes, install some random crap which claims to be a virus-checker`? I don't.

      Indeed. After all, I still use a keyboard, even though some clueless idiot may confuse quote and backtick...

    39. Re:Walled gardens.. by shellbeach · · Score: 1

      There's a lot of ifs and buts in that paper -- the need for ASE to be installed is primary, the exploit still needs a buffer overflow to work and I trust that the specifc Tcl scripting vulnerability has been fixed now in any case. It's a very specific example using software that is unlikely to be on an Android phone, and it doesn't seem like an example of installing an SMS app, then installing UNO, to me.

      Interesting example of bypassing sandboxed permissions, though.

    40. Re:Walled gardens.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When you install an app on Android, you will be prompted with the permissions the app is requesting, and asked if you want to install it.

      They could have done better than this. I should have the option: "Install this app, but deny it permission to do X and Y."

    41. Re:Walled gardens.. by shellbeach · · Score: 2

      All the developer has to do to get around this is to add "The app is also able to sync with other phones using SMS" to the description. Then the careful user compares the permission list with the description and accepts it.

      No, the careful user asks him/herself, "why on earth does an app need SMS capability to sync? I don't want to install software that sends out SMSes!" and doesn't install the app.

      The stupid user, OTOH, goes right ahead and installs it. The question is, how much should we be protecting people from themselves?

  5. Too open for its own good by LostCluster · · Score: 1

    The reason iOS devices don't need anti-malware solutions is because all of the programs that run on that platform are from a secure and curated Apple App Store. Google's "anybody can open an app store" policy means Google can't killbit programs it doesn't like, while Apple can killbit anything it wants even after the fact. Bait-and-switch programs only exist on platforms where there's no control in what can be published.

    1. Re:Too open for its own good by Megane · · Score: 0

      The reason iOS devices don't need anti-malware solutions is because Android is a much easier target.

      FTFY.

      Steve Jobs is laughing from beyond the grave.

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    2. Re:Too open for its own good by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      You could certainly do this with iOS - just have a webpage with the fake scanner and the false positives and then an offer to clean it off - from the web, no app to download! What could be simpler?

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    3. Re:Too open for its own good by VortexCortex · · Score: 0

      So, wait... If my "scam" website uses referrer headers to target iOS instead of Android browsers, then all of a sudden Android is the secure one right? Oh, by the way, my AntiVirus detector for $YOUR_OS shows that $YOUR_OS is infected with { random(100) + 20 } Viruses! I'll post the instructions for how to remove them all. But, to make it worth my while, post your credit card number, expiration date and security code (on the back), and I'll just take $25.00 out... or we can do this securely via pay-palls.com...

      (Oh Noes! Now AntiVirus Scams have spread to Slashdot too! -- Unless, if I get your gist, you're browsing with iOS, then you won't see the above?)

      Also, Apple's App Store has had Trojans slip thru their "screening process". My favorite one was when some teenager made a "Torch" app that also enabled teathering. Apple pulled the app after they found out about the extra trojan feature. By your logic: This was a good thing for them to do?

      Walled Gardens are the TSA Security Theater of the mobile space (coming soon to a PC near you!) I prefer my gardens (software distribution channels) to be gated and have keys that I control.

      Also: You can't make idiot proof security, the Universe will create smarter idiots.
      "Those who trade convenience for security deserve neither, and will have none."
      -Benjamin Franklin

    4. Re:Too open for its own good by Andraax · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The reason iOS devices don't need anti-malware solutions is because all of the programs that run on that platform are from a secure and curated Apple App Store.

      You know, we can make all computer systems secure by forcing people to only get software that has been screened by the government. And we can eliminate all sources of terrorist communication by forcing all telephone calls, email, letters, etc, to go through government "approval" censors. And we can eliminate fraud in the banking system by only allowing transactions that are pre-approved by the government. And we can improve car safety by only allowing people to buy cars supplied by the government.

      And I wouldn't want to live in that world.

    5. Re:Too open for its own good by LostCluster · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah, but where would the fake webpage buy its traffic from? Apple controls in-app ads, and Google censors its search ads all the time. A fake antivirus website that nobody visits is not a problem at all.

    6. Re:Too open for its own good by macs4all · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Walled Gardens are the TSA Security Theater of the mobile space (coming soon to a PC near you!)

      Not hardly.

      When you talk about the TSA, there are literally hundreds of examples of the TSA not catching "banned items". WIth the iOS App Store, there have been what, one or two completely benign "breaches" in three years?

      Hardly a fair comparison.

      And, when compared with the track record of Android, even in the supposed "official" Android App Store, you would be bat-shit crazy to seriously suggest that Apple's curating of the App Store is "theater".

  6. Oh great by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

    I am currently helping a family friend who's windows 7 laptop is loaded with cruft. He used my wifi a few months ago and I noticed it was exchanging UDP packets with various ADSL lines around the world. I advised him to reinstall it then but he pointed to all the shields on IE and insisted that they meant it was secure. So now his web browsers refuse to work at all. He doesn't have his installation disk here. It has to be sent from Malaysia. I hope his family are sending him the actual disk which came with the laptop and not one they got for ten RM in a market. In the mean time he is up and running with an ubuntu live CD.

    The implication of this article is that the same mess is going to start happening with phones and tablets,

    1. Re:Oh great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      Why wouldn't you just download a pirated copy of the Windows 7 for the guy? You don't sound like a very good friend...

    2. Re:Oh great by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1

      He doesn't have his installation disk here. It has to be sent from Malaysia. I hope his family are sending him the actual disk which came with the laptop and not one they got for ten RM in a market. In the mean time he is up and running with an ubuntu live CD.

      Why wouldn't you just ask his family to send you the necessary paperwork to have him committed instead. You don't sound like a very good friend... a person that deficient in brain power may just as well hurt himself physically on sharp objects if not locked up in a padded facility.

      The implication of this article is that the same mess is going to start happening with phones and tablets,

      Don't worry. I know a guy like that, and so far he has managed to brick (or have bricked) every single phone he got (6 of them...), so none of them if going to make any expensive calls on his behalf...

    3. Re:Oh great by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      You don't sound like a very good friend

      Can't stand the guy to be honest. I didn't suggest he install ubuntu to the laptop because I just know it will be a support nightmare for years to come. I helped him back up his own files when his system started to fail and I will help him with the win 7 reinstall. Hopefully that will be the end of my involvement.

  7. McAfee by symbolset · · Score: 2

    I had hoped being owned by Intel would class up their act. Apparently not. Doubtless they sell a cure for this "threat".

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
    1. Re:McAfee by Smurf · · Score: 2

      The only reference to McAfee in TFS is this: "According to McAfee, almost all new mobile malware now targets Android." It also contains the only link o a FA that mentions McAfee.

      Thus I deduce that in you opinion, the fact that McAfee made such an assertion is a classless act. That means that you think that McAfee is either lying or bending the truth to suit them best. Or, in other words, you have data than contradicts the last graph of TFA (i.e., the bar plot showing the distribution of malware among mobile platforms).

      I will give you the benefit of the doubt, so please feel free to link to that data. Because it's not classy at all to claim that other people are lying unless you have reason to believe that's the case.

    2. Re:McAfee by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      That means that you think that McAfee is either lying or bending the truth to suit them best.

      I dont know what he thinks, but after 30 years in the business, I'd be astonished if Make-A-Fee had not written BOTH the mobile trojans themselves.

    3. Re:McAfee by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      News @ 11: AV companies bending reality and selling FUD in order to keep their SCAM alive.

  8. According to McAfee.... by Kenja · · Score: 1

    According to McAfee, Apple hasn't yet let us sell our "anti virus" app for iOS so we're saying you should buy the Android one.

    --

    "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
  9. I suspect it's because it's still "legal". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or is there any risk for the makers of that stuff?

    No? Then even if you have "laws", they aren't worth the paper they are written on.

    Then again, it's probably a good thing, with helping natural selection prevent the Idiocracy which humanity works so hard to become.

  10. Wonder what next week's spin... by ibsteve2u · · Score: 1
    --
    Orwell: "In a Time of Universal Deceit, telling the Truth is a Revolutionary Act"
  11. Still going on by Pop69 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The weekly/monthly stories that try to implant into peoples minds.

    Android = Linux = Malware

    Users are stupid whatever OS/Hardware they use, they will click on shit like this just because it pops up and they've never bothered to educate themselves about what it really means.

    1. Re:Still going on by gstrickler · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And that's why "walled gardens" are safer for the vast majority of users.

      --
      make imaginary.friends COUNT=100 VISIBLE=false
    2. Re:Still going on by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ... they will click on shit like this just because it pops up and they've never bothered to educate themselves...

      We have decades of observed behavior showing that users will not "educate themselves". As such, any consumer-facing system that requires users to "educate themselves" is de facto broken and, frankly, poorly designed.

      --
      That is all.
    3. Re:Still going on by martin-boundary · · Score: 1

      Except that "walled gardens" are the infection vector in this case. It would be safer if people didn't download software from those weed infested cesspits and used Free software instead.

    4. Re:Still going on by Telvin_3d · · Score: 1

      And where would they get the free software? I know... how about a central repository that contains a large searchable selection of software?

      Any application platform where the users are expected to audit the software has failed on a fundamental level. It's like a car company that expects their customers to mill their own replacement parts. Yes, technically possible and some people have the skills, but it has missed the point so completely that it's not even wrong.

    5. Re:Still going on by gstrickler · · Score: 1

      Wrong, these sites aren't "walled" in any way. Get an account, upload software. No validation of the account owner or the software.

      --
      make imaginary.friends COUNT=100 VISIBLE=false
    6. Re:Still going on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The weekly/monthly stories that try to implant into peoples minds.

      Android = Linux = Malware

      Well it's only been said what, millions of times over the last decade that if Linux were as popular as Windows it would suffer most of the same problems.

      Voila.

    7. Re:Still going on by martin-boundary · · Score: 1
      The point being that open source allows experts to audit the software for the users as well as the users or contractors who are paid by the users or....

      That's always a substantial improvement over closed software that can't be audited by experts, or users, or contractors paid by the users or...

      Moreover, in the case of malware, having the source of the virus/trojan already available in the repository helps response time and sending out fixes in case it hasn't been caught earlier and lets users self-assess if they have the malware easily, and fix it in a variety of ways if they need or want to.

      All of this isn't an option with closed software containing malware, but nice try.

  12. Bad Statistics by chrb · · Score: 2

    "Number of new fake malware" is not that same as "number of malware infections". With the right tool you can generate an infinite number of malware variants. The statistic from McAfee includes every single individual file that contains some malware - this is like saying that, for an old school virus that infects .exe files on Windows, that every single infection counts as a different "unique malware instance". And if one of these is uploaded to an app store - even an app store that nobody uses, even for a "unique malware instance" that nobody ever installs - then it gets counted by McAfee. The equivalent in the iPhone world would be counting all malware in every random Cydia repository on the web. Obviously there is a big difference between a random repository on the web, and something being distributed by the official repository.

    What would actually be useful is to know the number of malware instances that have made it on to app stores that people actually use (eg the official one), how many people installed them, and how long it was before the app was removed. But obviously this number would be much lower, and so generate far fewer page hits.

    1. Re:Bad Statistics by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      What would actually be useful is to know the number of malware instances that have made it on to app stores that people actually use (eg the official one), how many people installed them, and how long it was before the app was removed. But obviously this number would be much lower, and so generate far fewer page hits.

      So, wait... the supposed major benefit of Android over iOS, that you can go outside the main app store, is something that no one actually uses?

      Or is this just true when its negative features are brought into the spotlight?

    2. Re:Bad Statistics by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      The installed point is a good one.

      All Android phones I've heard of has the "Unknown Sources" option disabled by default which will block people from using their non-official app store or simply installing the apk. There are good reasons to uncheck this option, but I'm willing to bet that most commonly the people who do uncheck these are also the kind of power users who don't fall for malware which relies on the stupidity of users.

      I don't see this malware spreading too quickly unless it finds its way into an official app store.

    3. Re:Bad Statistics by oakgrove · · Score: 1

      The major benefit of Android over iphone is there is an Android phone on your carrier at the price you want to pay. But don't let something like the truth get in the way of a gois okd fashion platform bash...oh, you didn't!

      --
      The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
    4. Re:Bad Statistics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From what understand even the official android app store has had malware on it. I might be wrong tho, does anyone else know?

    5. Re:Bad Statistics by chrb · · Score: 1

      the supposed major benefit of Android over iOS, that you can go outside the main app store, is something that no one actually uses?

      Power users (read "geeks") use it. Most of them will be using internal corporate repository, development repo, or some other trusted source like the Amazon app store. As far as I can see, the majority of "normal" users have no desire for any of those things, they mostly just want to run Facebook, Ebay, and Angry Birds, so all they need is the official app store. There may be some significant exceptions though: apps which aren't allowed on the official app store (like N64 emulators), and pirated apps; both of these might be quite popular (reliable figures are difficult to get), and are only available from external sources.

      Or is this just true when its negative features are brought into the spotlight?

      The negative feature of being free to choose to install whatever software I choose on a device that I own? Yes, with freedom comes risk, but I would rather be free to make a mistake than not.

      I prefer "He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither" to "you shouldn't be allowed to have a choice because you might make the wrong decision"

    6. Re:Bad Statistics by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      What if I don't want to pay for shit?

      There are Android phones on all the carriers here too, along with iPhones - the ones that are as good as iPhones (and don;t get me wrong, there are some excellent Android handsets) cost about the same, but if you want to tout the really horrible Android handsets that cost a lot less because they're just shoddy and awful (and I've seen a fair few of them - my housemate owns one and curses it daily), then go right ahead. I personally think those really shitty Android handsets do more to promote the iPhone than any amount of Apple marketing, which is a serious shame since it need not be perceived as bad when it's the fault of crappy hardware.

      I don't hate Android. Far from it - I think it's great. I personally use an iPhone, but that should be beside the point. I'm merely pointing out logical inconsistencies in arguments about Android on slashdot.

    7. Re:Bad Statistics by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      The negative feature of being free to choose to install whatever software I choose on a device that I own? Yes, with freedom comes risk, but I would rather be free to make a mistake than not.

      Og absolutely - I have no issue with that position, my point was that this freedom is touted as a major benefit of Android (it is), but then as soon as any negative aspect of it is brought up - like this malware situation - suddenly the argument is "oh, well no one uses the non-official marketplace stores" - you can't have your cake and eat it, either people use them to great effect, or they're hardly a major benefit of the platform. If it's only a niche benefit in use by a tiny minority of users, then why promote it so heavily?

      Don't read this wrong - I think it's a great feature (and something that would be good to have on iOS as an optional thing with a warning that says "beyond here be dragons" or something), but the way you argued the point in your original post it downplayed it to the point of uselessness (ie, if no one uses it and it's a security risk, why is it there?)

    8. Re:Bad Statistics by oakgrove · · Score: 1

      What if I don't want to pay for shit?

      Pay more get more. Duh. Works with practically everything under the sun. Look around you right now and ask how many of the things you see have cheaper (or more expensive) alternative. Why didn't you get those alternatives instead? Many people have a price point. Your argument seems to be let's just take all the inexpensive Android phones off the shelves because...because...you said so. Ha. You are not special enough to dictate what people buy.

      I personally think those really shitty Android handsets do more to promote the iPhone than any amount of Apple marketing,

      You can think what you want. I personally think that the cheap Android handsets give people an entry into the smartphone market that they otherwise would not enjoy. There is a carrier in my country called MetroPCS and they have some really budget Android phones. I have rooted a few for people and installed wi-fi tether and what not. The phones aren't the greatest. 480x320 screens 512 MB RAM, 600 MHz procs etc. but I have yet to see a single user say "Android sucks". These people are entry level. They have sense enough to know they cheaped out and when they want a better experience they'll spend more money. That money might go on an iPhone or it may go on a Galaxy S2. But they aren't as dumb as you so arrogantly and condescendingly seem to think they are.

      I'm merely pointing out logical inconsistencies in arguments about Android on slashdot.

      With that, in light of your comments preceding it, you are actually adding to the net "irony" in the universe but whatever makes you happy.

      P.S., in the time it took us both to compose our messages another 50,000 android phones were bought and activated. I don't think Google needs your help in marketing their operating system.

      --
      The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
    9. Re:Bad Statistics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just because nobody uses it doesn't mean it's not useful. Even if nobody used it, more money goes to app developers in Android because they're only paying standard rates instead of an extortionate 30% "service charge". Google has to worry about other appstores taking sales and ad revenue from them.

      Plus people are using Amazon and Getjar -- which are both legitimate stores, of which GetJar has dated back 10 years... and with these two stores (which are much more curated then the Android market, if you prefer curated) *AND* offer full paid apps for free (as a user benefit)

      I use it, and I'm sure a bunch of people use it too.

    10. Re:Bad Statistics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But that's the thing. None of these malware applications are in any of the major application stores. They're in random downloads placed sporadically throughout the internet on some random page. To answer your why-it's-there question, it's there so that no one company can monopolize Android. Taking it to an extreme, why would a bomb have a proper (i.e. no random wire cutting) shutdown code when it's designed to blow shit up? Or the ever popular (at least in Hollywood) self-destruct button. It's there just-in-case. God forbid people actually need to use it.

      People *DO* use unofficial marketplaces (mostly for free stuff like Amazon's free app of the day or GetJar Gold. The original poster misspoke (possibly a fanboy posting blindly, or maybe just an innocent mistake).

      HOWEVER, his original point still stands. I can go and create any malicious application on any platform and submit it to the major AV vendors and have it count.

    11. Re:Bad Statistics by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      Where did I say the cheaper Android handsets should not be sold? Where did I say people who bought the cheaper handsets were dumb?

      I'm under no illusion that I'm "special" in any way. I think you're projecting your frothing android fanboy rage onto me.

    12. Re:Bad Statistics by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      "extortionate" service charge. Ha.

      Your ignorance is showing.

    13. Re:Bad Statistics by Tim+C · · Score: 1

      Well for me, the major benefit of my HTC Desire over an iPhone is not having to use iTunes - or indeed any other third party application. It presents as a mass storage device, so I just copy files over with the method of my choice.

  13. sudo, gksudo, what is difference? by tepples · · Score: 1

    What's the difference between needing sudo and needing gksudo?

    1. Re:sudo, gksudo, what is difference? by chrb · · Score: 1

      The difference is that you don't type anything on the command line. The post I was responding to was basically claiming that Linux is more vulnerable because you need to type "sudo apt-get blah" to install a package, so then dumb users can be tricked into typing something like "sudo apt-add-repository http://malware.com/ && sudo apt-get install secret-malware". As (supposedly) opposed to OS X and Windows, where the GUI limits the actions of dumb users to only choosing preapproved software from a predefined repository. At least, that is how I interpreted it. The point I was making is that exactly the same package manager GUIs also exist under Linux, and have done for a very long time. Hence dumb users don't have to (and probably won't) use "sudo apt-get ...", they will use the GUI instead, so whatever vulnerabilities exist in this context are exactly the same as on the other operating systems. In fact, I'd go further and say it's worse on the other platforms, as the barrier for installing external software is lower - a "dumb" Linux user has to add an external repository and navigate a package manager, whereas a "dumb" Windows user just has to visit any random web site which will prompt them to download and run an executable file. (Obviously, I am speaking in generalisations, I understand there are PPAs, and that not all Windows users install software from random web sites etc.)

    2. Re:sudo, gksudo, what is difference? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe GP was referring to the GUIs of package managers.

  14. Any good anti virus software fpr Android? by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

    I browse the web a lot with it. But I feel eventually there will be buffer overflow, flash, various vector attacks, that will compromise my phone.

    It seems Andriod's java api is very very limited to internals which is bad as you can't make a shield like you can in Windows. Anyone have a suggestion?

    1. Re:Any good anti virus software fpr Android? by Celexi · · Score: 1

      There is no good antivirus for android, maybe you could mod a linux one. But still it would take long way until it could be used. Big Problem here is the android Market being open, it should at the very least search in applications for malware patterns on the applications uploaded and put them to manual review or something.

    2. Re:Any good anti virus software fpr Android? by macs4all · · Score: 1

      I browse the web a lot with it. But I feel eventually there will be buffer overflow, flash, various vector attacks, that will compromise my phone.

      It seems Andriod's java api is very very limited to internals which is bad as you can't make a shield like you can in Windows. Anyone have a suggestion?

      Buy an iPhone.

      There. I said it. But I doubt you'll listen...

    3. Re:Any good anti virus software fpr Android? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you gonna buy it for me, bitch? Can I get my tmobile 3G data with it? Thought not. STFU, faggot.

    4. Re:Any good anti virus software fpr Android? by dissy · · Score: 1

      Obvious troll, but for anyone else: yes it will work just fine on tmobile g3, as mine was for the first year before switching to at&t.

      PS if you are not willing to pay for a phone, you won't be able to get an android for $0 or less either.

    5. Re:Any good anti virus software fpr Android? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Go fuck yourself.

      There I said it. But I doubt you'll listen...

    6. Re:Any good anti virus software fpr Android? by Skapare · · Score: 1

      Are you sure you want anti-virus when the issue is about trojans? Maybe just be smart about what apps you download by making sure the place you get them from checks them first to be sure they are not Malware?

      Virus != Malware (bearing Trojans)

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
    7. Re:Any good anti virus software fpr Android? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Somebody mod this dipshit down.

  15. "A sign that Android has arrived?" by erroneus · · Score: 2

    Nah, not really... but I couldn't think of a better title.

    Put something nice in the hands of the ignorant, and they will muck them up. It's what they always do. What's more, you let the greedy carriers and manufacturers decide when and how you can get updates and fixes, you'll find they won't be coming to your rescue.

    I hate to say it since I'm an Android user myself, but these things have the advantages of a PC in that you can get any software you want onto these things. But they have an incredible weakness in that users can't casually "reload" the machine to clean them up.

    I think it's time Android makers came up with a way for users to wipe and reload their devices as an alternative to processor and battery sucking anti-malware. We know they won't though... that'd open the doors to an even more fiendish group of people -- the firmware hackers!! If they leave things unlocked too much, they will lose a few bucks from people removing the bloatware from their phones and enabling features the carriers were careful to disable.

    1. Re:"A sign that Android has arrived?" by arkhan_jg · · Score: 1

      You know you can factory reset android from right in the system settings, which will leave your data on the internal sdcard, but wipe all apps and settings? Then you just re-add your google account, which pulls back in contacts, calendar and email, then reinstall your wanted apps via the market.

      There are backup apps to shorten this process if you're in the habit of flashing new custom roms, but it's still pretty quick even without them.

      If they leave things unlocked too much, they will lose a few bucks from people removing the bloatware from their phones and enabling features the carriers were careful to disable.

      Ummm. Pretty much all the android phones, bar a few outliers, have custom roms available with bloatware stripped already available. ICS is being built for a bunch of devices ahead/instead of official roms to boot. HTC just released their bootloader unlocker to make it easier to root their phones if desired.

      --
      Remember kids, it's all fun and games until someone commits wholesale galactic genocide.
  16. They're everywhere by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Heck, I'm even getting ads that say I have twenty viruses while playing Angry Birds.

  17. Can we have slashdot 2.0 back? by peppepz · · Score: 1

    Pretty please? With the borg icon and all the rest.

  18. F-Secure cannot read code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Last link in the ./ post links to a post on the F-Secure corporate blog. In the 3rd screenshot F-Secure provides a code snippet from a fake "World of Goo" which supposedly will send premium SMS to a short code number. F-Secure claims this code will do this in 18 countries.

    I beg to disagree. Although the code is certainly malicious it only affects you if you happen to use a SIM card from Azerbaijan (az). That's the first if() clause in the source. After entering the while() loop the method will return right away. Code below line #8 will never be reached.

    t-lo

  19. How would that work? by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

    So, wait... If my "scam" website uses referrer headers to target iOS instead of Android browsers, then all of a sudden Android is the secure one right?

    No, because even if you target iOS what will happen? Exactly nothing, because your virus-laden app is not in the app store.

    Android has a lot more avenues of attack, including real applications - and many users who have purposefully allowed external downloads (even the Amazon market tells you to disable that block).

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  20. PEBKAC by allo · · Score: 1

    no app can send premium SMS without consent from the user. There is a big screen listing all the permissions the app wants to have, when you install an app. When your "virus scanner" sends a premium sms, it cannot be a big surprise, because it announced it while you installed it.

  21. Actually, no. by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

    You know, we can make all computer systems secure by forcing people to only get software that has been screened by the government.

    You mean like an App TSA?

    Yeah THAT would sure be a great idea.

    No, the reason why Apple's security works is not JUST the app screening. It's defense in depth - app screening, sandboxing (prevention of hidden SMS), disallowing externally loaded apps without jailbreaking.

    Also the real reason the screening does anything at all is not because Apple is so great at screening for security issues (they are not nor can anyone be) but because you have to go through the process of making an identity Apple trusts enough to allow app submission with. That's way too much effort for way to little payout since Apple could and would quickly pull any app found to have a real virus of some kind, and again even if you can get a malicious app in the store what could it really do?

    The Apple (and Microsoft BTW) model works best for end users really because users that do not know any better are protected, while technical users who can handle the responsibility or removing layers of security can jailbreak and side load any apps they like.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  22. Wrong, not with "phones and tablets" by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

    The implication of this article is that the same mess is going to start happening with phones and tablets,

    No.

    The implication is this IS happening on Android phones and tablets. not just any "phones and tablets". WP7 and IOS both have enough controls in place that average users will not be affected much at all by viruses, for all sorts of reasons.

    Android has made it too easy for average non-technical users to download apps from anywhere, for those apps to fundamentally change the system in ways the user may not comprehend. And so they are suffering the fate of those who would bring the sins of the past forward into smaller devices.

    Technical users or those with technical friends can still easily open up iOS and WP7 but at least it's a more conscious and directed choice.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Wrong, not with "phones and tablets" by VMSBIGOT · · Score: 1

      Wait, so are you saying that a Windows derivative is more secure then a Linux derivative?
      *runs to look outside*
      HOLY F^$K THERE ARE PIGS FLYING!

    2. Re:Wrong, not with "phones and tablets" by peppepz · · Score: 1
      Android won't let you install applications coming from outside the market by default. That is, it has the same security design as iOS and WP7 out of the box.

      The only difference between Android and the others, is that Android does provide a legal, consistent, approved way for "technical users and those with technical friends" to disable this lock-down and install applications for third parties. It is a conscious and directed choice, because the option can't be enabled without the user explicitly looking for it inside the phone settings applications, and the user is presented with a dialog box explaining the responsibility required by freedom before the option is enabled. Also, the applications you install this way will not bypass Android's security model.

      iOS does /not/ provide the user with this possibility - at all. It just happens that some hackers have found a way to violate the lock-down in some of the existing models. It is not guaranteed that any phone you buy will have it (is there a jailbreak for iPhone 4S?), and it is not guaranteed that even if your phone currently has it, it won't lose it in future firmware updates. Plus, it's dangerous, it will break your warranty, and you have to trust people with l33t names that, although they're exploiting a security flaw in your phone, they won't do anything fishy behind your back.

    3. Re:Wrong, not with "phones and tablets" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't forget how the Cydia ecosystem works. One update of iOS, and it isn't the guys with the l33t names who JB, but every single app has to be recoded to deal with the changes. ASLR in iOS 4.2 for example, or all the changes that killed Mobile Substrate in iOS 5.x. When iOS 5.1 gets released, it is this all over again. To boot, if I have to restore my iPhone, I'm stuck at the latest 5.x release and wait for a JB. Luckily the iPhone 4 can always use a tethered JB, but other devices like the 4S are SOL.

      Restoring a hosed iPhone is a PITA, especially if you use JB functionality (needed for basic things like blocking bad callers.) You have to reload an IPSW blob, have your single authorized Mac or PC handy (as reloading from iCloud is painfully slow), re-JB, and reload your Cydia apps.

      My Android phone? If I hose that, I boot into ClockworkMod, select a recent nandroid backup, let it copy, boot into that, and I'm back up and running. No restoring, no re-jailbreaking, no re-downloading of apps. If the device gets completely and totally wiped, I flash it with a ROM, install ROM Manager (which can install ClockworkMod for me) and Dropbox to get my backups, copy files, and then restore.

  23. Actaully, yes by toadlife · · Score: 1

    This is indeed a sign that Android has arrived. The malware authors are just going where the money is.

    that'd open the doors to an even more fiendish group of people -- the firmware hackers!!

    This is quite plausible. With my phone, the Epic 4G, a local root exploit was available for use for at least 6 months before they finally released the phone's Gingerbread update recently. While it was useful as a one-click-root solution, it could have also been useful as a tool for malware authors to embed their crap into the ROM.

    Now, with the Gingerbread ROMS, new kernel exploits are already being discovered and put to use. I used one to root my wife's Epic 4G Touch, which was only released in November.

    Undoubtedly the kernel exploit will linger for many, many months until Samsung releases a new ROM update.

    --
    I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
    1. Re:Actaully, yes by quacking+duck · · Score: 1

      Malware authors are going after the low hanging fruit. The big money has been iPhone users for several years, but no bona fide malware has managed to monetize them successfully so far.

    2. Re:Actaully, yes by toadlife · · Score: 1

      Thank you, captain obvious.

      --
      I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
    3. Re:Actaully, yes by quacking+duck · · Score: 1

      In your rush to post a put-down, you missed my point entirely.

      You wrote "This is indeed a sign that Android has arrived. The malware authors are just going where the money is."

      The iPhone "arrived" several years ago. That's where the money was and a lot of it still is (fools and their money soon parted, etc, right?). But malware authors were unable to exploit it to the extent Android is experiencing.

    4. Re:Actaully, yes by toadlife · · Score: 1

      I didn't miss anything. I assumed everyone knew that Apple's vetted app store with a higher barrier to entry made it unfeasible for malware authors to infect iOS devices on the scale needed to make money.

      Android's open nature makes it inherently less secure. The tipping point for malware authors attacking Android was it growing marketshare - hence, Android being attacked is a sign that it has "arrived".

         

      --
      I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
  24. How to Spot the Malware by blackest_k · · Score: 1

    lucky for me three of my android devices use wifi and 3g indirectly, but it seems the premium sms trojans are wrappers for popular paid applications.

    So by applying a bit of common sense they are easy to avoid. For example Angrybirds is made and sold by Rovio so anyone selling Angrybirds who isn't Rovio is almost certainly untrustworthy and probably a good reason to flag the seller to Google.

    cut the rope is by ZeptoLab and not by Lagostrod or Miriada so it's obvious the later two stink.

    you can never be 100% safe but how do you benefit from an antivirus which identifies malware which has already been identified and outlets neutered?

  25. Walls go two ways by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

    You can have a "walled garden" for users (some Android companies have their Appstores), yet still allow people to leave on their own risk.

    If anyone can step over it, it's not a wall.

    You seem to imply that any Android app store is a walled garden. An App Store is not what makes a wall, the wall is not only what lets applications into a collection of apps but the reach they have beyond once they get in.

    Curated collections alone are not enough, you need to also have many layers of system security to bring any kind of meaning to the "wall" of the garden.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  26. That's fine, but it goes further by SuperKendall · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Why would you want to avoid Android just because other Android users might make bad choices?

    Awesome, I totally support people choosing a platform they are comfortable with managing security on.

    Now you aren't recommending Android to non-technical people right? Because I think it's wrong to tell people that CANNOT handle securing of systems, that they should buy and Android phone which I know full well they cannot manage securing properly.

    Just as I would not recommend Windows PC's to people back in the day, these days to recommend Android devices to non-technical people is irresponsible.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  27. Its called marketing by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    And is quite effective.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  28. Doubtful... by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    That's the first if() clause in the source. After entering the while() loop the method will return right away.

    That looks more like some kind of bug in the decompiler. After all, they have SMS calls set up for other countries, why would the real call return?

    I think the real code is something like the while loop with all of the country codes inside.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  29. Why not open and checked? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't understand why google can not check the apps before the go into the official store? Seems like they could check them, but not limit what goes in as long as it is not malicious.

  30. the weekly A/V scam by Fuzi719 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It seems every week there is another "Oh Nos! Android is infested with malware!" article extolling the virtues of Apple and claiming all Android phones MUST install some A/V app or else your hair is going to fall out, your dog will get pregnant and your lawn will turn brown. Every one of these articles can be traced back to one of the major A/V vendors (who just happen to have a convenient Android A/V app for sale) or Apple. It is all FUD and BULLSH*T. Are there malware out there for Android? Yes. Is it widespread in the US? No. I've worked with Android phones for years, work with several administrators in corporate environments who service hundreds of Android phones, know dozens of friends with Android phones. I have NEVER encountered a single bit of malware. Not once. The few bits of malware that have gotten into the system in the US were quickly taken care of by Google. Tell me, have any of you EVER seen this "widespread malware" out in the field?

    1. Re:the weekly A/V scam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Fake antivirus scams have plagued...Mac OSX during the last couple of years." Apparently, one == plague.

  31. Get a real anti-virus app by euroq · · Score: 1

    Get a real anti-virus app for Android like Lookout, and it won't ever happen to you.

    --
    Just because the U.S. is a republic does not mean it is not a democracy. Democracy/republic are not mutually exclusive.
    1. Re:Get a real anti-virus app by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      If you truly have to run anti-virus on your phone, that is pathetic.

      Fortunately we aren't to that point yet. With Android you can still be ok if you're a little careful.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  32. Yep.. even seen the adverts on TV by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    free mcafee antivirus for your new tablet / phone when you buy from [major store here] ;-)

  33. Key is "not derivative" by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

    Wait, so are you saying that a Windows derivative is more secure then a Linux derivative?

    No. The key is that WP7 is a green-field effort (or near to it). That's why it's actually pretty secure and well designed unlike so many other Microsoft products...

    Linux is inherently pretty secure. The underlying system in Android is pretty secure, but then they built layers of services atop that that are too easily accessed by other applications (like SMS).

    You can build an insecure system on top of anything... the most solid bedrock can be a fine pedestal for a house of cards.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Key is "not derivative" by peppepz · · Score: 1

      No. The key is that WP7 is a green-field effort (or near to it). That's why it's actually pretty secure and well designed unlike so many other Microsoft products...

      Yes, it's so secure that any WP7 phone can be rebooted with a single text message (even from facebook!), and it won't be able to display, receive or send messages after that. Now that's what I call high quality code.

      http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2397572,00.asp

    2. Re:Key is "not derivative" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      MOCK YE NOT, ANDROID SUFFERED A WORSE PROBLEM:

      http://gizmodo.com/5080688/android-bug-reboots-phone-every-time-you-type-reboot

      yes thats right, in one of the original android versions it REBOOTED EVERY TIME YOU TYPED REBOOT!

    3. Re:Key is "not derivative" by peppepz · · Score: 1

      That was a HTC bug, not an Android one. And it wasn't remotely exploitable. And it didn't permanently cripple the functionality of the phone after the reboot.

  34. Please Mod me down hard right now by Hamsterdan · · Score: 0

    I own an iPhone, used to own an iPod gen 4, own several generations of Apple machines (][e, Mac 512k, Powermac G3 (Smurf), Powermac G4 (Gigabit), iMac G5 (ALS),Along PCs, a C64 and MIGs.

    I Hackintoshed snow kitty on my eeePC and never installed another OS on it, my main computer is running Leopard (4GB with SSD, XP is there just for old games). *never* used any kind of antimalware on either iOS, 9.x or OS X.

    That's one of the many reasons my next computer will have a fruity logo on it.

    Posting from an old crappy P.O.S. 2.8 P4 Dell with 4GB just because I was playing Unreal.

    --
    I've got better things to do tonight than die.
    1. Re:Please Mod me down hard right now by CAIMLAS · · Score: 1

      my main computer is running Leopard (4GB with SSD, XP is there just for old games). *never* used any kind of antimalware on either iOS, 9.x or OS X.

      That you know of.

      I run an educational network where people are allowed to bring their own laptops, and there is free wireless available to all participants. I have the occasional Windows user come in and complain about the latest Antivirus 20xx slamming his or her screen with popups, but just as frequently I see notifications of some Mac user who has a botted laptop. They're usually not aware, and aside from a slight slowness there is no perceptible effect to the user.

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    2. Re:Please Mod me down hard right now by IrrepressibleMonkey · · Score: 1

      Orly? I wasn't aware that Mac Bots were so common. Do you have any additional information on these Botnets that you have discovered? You'd get a lot of credit in the security community if you were to disclose it.

    3. Re:Please Mod me down hard right now by Hamsterdan · · Score: 1

      Like they're really widespread. I've worked security for an ISP for 12 years, and *once* had to call a customer that owned a Mac, she was dual booting Win XP.

      Guess which OS had malware?

      --
      I've got better things to do tonight than die.
    4. Re:Please Mod me down hard right now by Hamsterdan · · Score: 1

      This _^

      --
      I've got better things to do tonight than die.
  35. The Real Bitch by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Are you gonna buy it for me, bitch?

    With contract the iPhone costs no more than an Android phone.

    How much is he going to spend on AntiVirus...

    Apple Haters complaining about Apple prices are 20 2008.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  36. The exception that proves the rule by Brannon · · Score: 1

    Are you familiar with that expression?

    1. Re:The exception that proves the rule by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's one of those terrible expressions born of an irrational illogical mind. You know a rule isn't a rule if it's got exceptions, right?

  37. Re:No surprise here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're an ignorant piece of garbage.

  38. Why no Google anti measures. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Even Microsoft realized that having a built in system to remove and detect malware was a good idea.
    And Google could easily make an update that tells users when an app is trying to send a sms, and have a checkmark for allow/disallow/remember, and possiblity to revoke rights.
    Problem solved.

    My nephews phone has started spamming his contacts with advertising sms. Have no way of getting my hands on his phone to help him directly. He's only 9 y o so I hope he has the wits to help himself. I just hope I find that list with suspicious apps on the net somewhere soon.

  39. Lookout is malware by Rix · · Score: 1

    It doesn't actually do anything that reading permissions when you install apps won't do better. Except drain your battery.

  40. According to McAfee by fizzer06 · · Score: 1

    Lost me right there. McAfee blows huge chunks.

  41. No installation "just for me" by tepples · · Score: 1

    Even if so, the real problem is that Linux package managers require superuser privileges and cannot install a package to a user's home directory. Then CLI package managers wouldn't absolutely need sudo, nor would GUI package managers need gksudo.

  42. So much for permissions on ANDROID by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Android Holes Allow Secret Installation of Apps:

    (From November 2010)

    http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/10/11/14/0115255/Android-Holes-Allow-Secret-Installation-of-Apps

    ---

    PERTINENT QUOTE/EXCERPT:

    "Security researchers have demonstrated two vulnerabilities that allow attackers to install apps on Android and its vendor-specific implementations without a user's permission."

    ---

    "One word: permissions. When you install an app on Android, you will be prompted with the permissions the app is requesting, and asked if you want to install it. You, the user, have a very good breakdown of exactly what an app can do before it gets installed." - by shellbeach (610559) on Sunday January 01, @06:52PM (#38559416)

    * Not always..., See above!

    (I like your reg "lusername" - good flick it came from "Dark City"... "SHUT IT DOWN!!!", lol!)

    APK

    P.S.=> ANDROID's a "look @ the future" & in a way, the past too (how Windows was victimized/exploited/attacked due to popularity/most usage/most marketshare overall)...

    This makes TOTAL SENSE too: Simply because malware makers today are after your money, personal information, & even privacy. They are like pickpockets & don't operate on "crowds of 1" - they go where the crowds are, especially non-geek user crowds!

    (Which is WHY Linux itself never got attacked much - not much marketshare on the desktop where less technically saavy users are, & thus easier users to "sucker" too @ the same time (1.19%) that didn't justify malwares created for it, not enough "ROI" & since it was used MOSTLY on servers, the malware makers figured (at least early on, I have many server-level exploits on Linux catalogued here from last year alone, anyone wants proof of them, just ask)...

    Nowadays though?

    We finally have a LINUX VARIANT taking the 'bulk' of the usership possible out there from everyone, & what do we see? Linux being victimized, because ANDROID's a Linux variant (period) that uses a Linux core AND since it's the MOST USED mobile smartphone OS? It's "THE TARGET"... period!

    ... apk

  43. Still different by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    That is, it has the same security design as iOS and WP7 out of the box.

    And the plethora of Android viruses exist because of...

    I'll tell you why:

    1) Many "approved" android apps can and do modify the system more extensively, it's how a trojan app can send SMS without you knowing - impossible in iOS.

    2) Although Android may come locked many trusted names (like Amazon) tell you to unlock it. Poof, there goes the thin veneer of security...

    iOS does /not/ provide the user with this possibility - at all. It just happens that some hackers have found a way to violate the lock-down in some of the existing models

    That's every model, for every OS version. Obviously it is possible. Although It is not promoted by Apple the created of Cydia has said repeated Apple could shut down jailbreaking if they really wanted to - obviously they do not want to, and in fact the guy who Apple hired to do iOS5 notifications came from the jailbreaking community! Apple treats the Jailbreaking world as a sort of advanced R&D.

    is there a jailbreak for iPhone 4S

      Yes there is. Google. Have you heard of it? You probably should have thought to use it before wandering so far out of the field of fact where you started.

    Plus, it's dangerous, it will break your warranty, and you have to trust people

    My, what bullshit fear mongering you have there Grandmother!

    In reality many millions of people jailbreak phones regularly without issue (NO it does not void your warranty). The point is that the people who do so know what they are doing, and basic iPhone users are not then screwed the way basic Android users who never wanted this extra abilities, just a phone that was secure...

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Still different by peppepz · · Score: 1

      1) Many "approved" android apps can and do modify the system more extensively, it's how a trojan app can send SMS without you knowing - impossible in iOS.

      A trojan app can send SMSes only if you give it the permission to. I do recognize that many users won't read the permissions warning when they install an app, so perhaps Android had better display an additional warning dialog box each time a SMS is sent. (I also remember that in the case of Symbian, which worked that way for Java apps, people were annoyed because of the security pop-ups.) Anyway, if an app is caught doing anything in a fraudulent way, it will be yanked from the official market and from the devices that have it already installed.

      That's every model, for every OS version.

      The information I have tells me it is not the case. And what about WP7? No jailbreak at all for that.

      Apple could shut down jailbreaking if they really wanted to - obviously they do not want to

      But Apple do shut down known jailbreaking methods at almost every OS update. It's hackers that continuously find new ways to jailbreak.

      is there a jailbreak for iPhone 4S

      Yes there is. Google. Have you heard of it? You probably should have thought to use it before wandering so far out of the field of fact where you started.

      All I found by Google were scam sites that wanted me to buy shady applications that are supposed to let me jailbreak. Obviously fake, since the upstream hacker blogs tell me that jailbreaking the 4S and the iPad 2 is not currently possible. The very first Google result is even marked by Google as a "harmful site". Next slashdot article: "Fake jailbreak scams spread to iOS"?

      My, what bullshit fear mongering you have there Grandmother!

      In reality many millions of people jailbreak phones regularly without issue (NO it does not void your warranty).

      Have Apple changed their mind since they officially stated that jailbreak does void your warranty?

  44. Android needs to allow user to fine tune perms by Kurusawa · · Score: 1

    I think Android needs to provide users ways to fine tune the permissions of what an app can have access to. For example I can install a game and prevent it accessing to my contacts, location etc.. Or because I have limited mobile data allowance, I can disable mobile data for an app and force it to only work on WIFI. I have rooted my HTC Desire and installed LBE Privacy Guard. Works pretty well, don't notice much slow down. I'm no way associated with the app, just a happy user.

  45. What users cannot understand, should you allow? by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    A trojan app can send SMSes only if you give it the permission to.

    Yes, a permission that comes in s giant laundry-list of permissions that non-technical users have no capacity to understand what they are allowing.

    It's not even like Android asks you for permission when it tries to send an SMS, it's a giant list on installation that gives no context to WHEN it's going to use the abilities you grant.

    It doesn't even need to ask every time, like the annoying security pop-ups you mention. To ask simply once, the first time permission is needed, is enough to eliminate a whole class of trojans in applications that obviously should not be using SMS.

    That is my whole gripe with Android really, while they COULD make the security system better they have not - and I think they have allowed it to be too open by default, so they cannot truly shut it down as much as it should be locked down for non-technical users due to backwards compatibility.

    The information I have tells me it is not the case

    What did I say about not using google?

    Yes some of the paid apps actually work.

    But Apple do shut down known jailbreaking methods at almost every OS update.

    Some of the METHODS, yes, because they are generally security holes. But not the jailbroken systems.

    And again, if Apple really wanted they could shut down tethered jailbreaking but they have left that alone for YEARS.

    Have Apple changed their mind since they officially stated that jailbreak does void your warranty?

    Between the act you can system restore and various warranty acts, it's irrelevant what apple says. What matters is what they do.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley