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Windows 8 Features With Linux Antecedents
itwbennett writes "As details about new features in Windows 8 started to be discussed in the Building 8 blog and bandied about in Linux/Windows forums, Linux users were quick to chime in with a hearty 'Linux had that first' — even for things that were just a natural evolution, like native support for USB 3.0. So ask not 'did Linux have this first', but 'does Windows 8 do it better?'"
The Microsoft twist: No Linux distro does ISO mounting as easily as Windows 8, as it requires some command line trickery (or, again, third-party tools).
Here's your "command line trickery" (once you've gotten superuser):
Did you see that trickery? Someone call the pope, I'm well on my way to sainthood after that "miracle." Hahah that's funny though, this guy should see some of the command line paragraphs I've typed out for stuff like ffmpeg back in the day. I think the author doesn't understand that there are many linux machines that are servers or headless and many distros that love to leave you the option of not having to run a window manager. As a result, it's almost always up to you if you want to run a heavy GUI to execute two whole commands.
My work here is dung.
That goes for anything, but a more mature implementation will be more robust and so will the applications that support that implementation.
Twinstiq, game news
As details about new features in Windows 8 started to be discussed in the Building 8 blog and bandied about in Linux/Windows forums, Linux users were quick to chime in with a hearty 'Linux had that first' — even for things that were just a natural evolution, like native support for USB 3.0.
Perhaps they're not jeering Windows for "copying" Linux so much as they are happy to show that the flexibility and community involvement in open source is starting to surpass those closed source equivalents? Isn't that what Windows used to gain so much marketshare? Supporting everything before everyone else?
My work here is dung.
Does it really matter?
I don't really see anything here worth the attention -- this really just looks like an attempt to generate traffic.
Move along, nothing to see here.
...No, really. It's quite dull and profoundly uncontroversial.
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
It boggled my mind that even Windows 7 didn't have that. At my job, I'm the Mac tech and there are a couple of PC techs. When they're overbusy, I take some of their workload... had to do an install of Office on someone's machine, so I found a folder of ISOs on a network share, downloaded it, and...? Hmm. "I may be an idiot," I said to my colleagues, "but I can't figure out how to mount this ISO file." "Burn it," they said. "Why, how do you open it on a Mac?" "Uh... you double-click it."
Talk about your long times coming.
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Just look at the author's bio. Free advertising/advocacy has been going on in the computer magazines for as long as I can remember.
"things that were just a natural evolution"
Try to tell that to the patent jerks at Apple, and Microsoft...
Maybe someone like SCO will sue Microsoft for using the the USB protocol, even if Microsoft and Apple may have paid for using USB, and SCO doesn't even own the patents. This business is so litigious.
And what will Linux do that Windows 8 doesn't when Win8 finally gets on the market?
Or maybe:
When will people start to care about paying for low quality products when hight quality ones are free?
Rethinking email
It's noticeably better at generating profit for Microsoft.
ZFS is a fantastic filesystem, most people who have used it are aware of it--but it has little widespread adoption outside of the Solaris and BSD communities due to licensing.
BTRFS has yet to become the defacto file system in any linux distro today that I'm aware of, but it's well under way. That said, BTRFS will be a complete replacement for ext4, while ReFS is being phased in with a cautious approach (no system drives on ReFS).
The filesystem thing is definitely a natural evolution, it's like saying features of ZFS were copied into BTRFS--of course they were--ZFS isn't widely adopted in the Linux world. Just like BTRFS won't be adopted in the Microsoft World.
I'd love to see some performance numbers between the two, but I suspect ReFS will be a "try it and see how it works" thing first. I suspect it will do wonders for Home Servers, and I can't wait!
I would have thought Linux users would be happy if MS borrowed their ideas- it makes the "mainstream" operating system more like the one they have chosen to use for themselves.
Surely MS copying Linux can only be a good thing? No?
I've heard MS is going to even start using a penguin as their logo too. ;)
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
Things you mount aren't located in /mount, no it is /mnt. Ahh well that is so easy, I can't believe it didn't know that right off the top of my head!
That's what makes the *NIX command line even worse as a tool (not saying the Windows command line is better, but you needn't use it) is that commands are all kinds of random abbreviations. You can't make the argument with a straight face that it is "intuitive" or people can "use commands that seem natural." You don't list directories, you ls them, you don't put user programs in "Programs" you put them in /usr and it isn't short for "user" it is short for "unix system resource" of course that isn't what it originally meant since it used to be where user stuff is that is a backronym.
You really have to already know how to do what you want before you can do it. You can't stumble through things by looking through a list of menu options and finding the one that says what you want.
The name ISO is taken from the ISO 9660 file system used with CD-ROM media, but what is known as an ISO image might also contain a UDF (ISO/IEC 13346) file system or a DVD or Blu-ray Disc (BD) image.
blog
Most of the people who react to MS's "borrowing" of ideas have no issue whatsoever with MS using the ideas ... it's the way that MS portrays itself as the epitome of innovation, as if it invented the ideas. The level of hubris it takes to create the various MS marketing campaigns inflicted on us over the years is ... staggering.
... well, repulsive, and arguably unethical.
In my experience, on a one-on-one basis, most of the technical staff at MS don't display this attitude (most - i've met a couple of exceptions). But as a corporate whole, the level of disingenuousness is
"Ahh! I see you're in that indeterminate Schrodinger state where - oh, uh
There's no question that companies like Microsoft borrow good ideas from F/OSS, and often improve upon them. This is not a bad thing in and of itself: borrowing good ideas is a central tenant of F/OSS. The important question is, how much of the improved idea does Microsoft let F/OSS borrow back? For example, will the Gnome project get sued if they incorporated elements of Windows 8's file copy dialog into Nautilus?
If my info is correct, this is the first major OS for Microsoft that isn't tied down by the DOJ. This being the case, things like an ISO mounter may have been restricted. I have the feeling this isn't the end of MS stuffing the OS with more goodies it feels would be nice rather than stuffing it with goodies that it feels it can get away with without the DOJ breathing down it's neck.
For those who seek perfection there can be no rest on this side of the grave.
Could this be the year of Windows 8 on the desktop??
you had me at #!
nope, unix kernel panic
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Evelyn Beatrice Hall, re Voltaire
HTC and Samsung are known to be paying Microsoft royalties for the devices they sell with Android.
AC is pointing out that something similar could happen if Microsoft patented ideas it gleaned from the open source community. An "Embrace, Extend, Patent, Profit" modus, if you will.
Ribbon? a context sensitive Toolbox stuck below the menubar? I don't see anything new or original about a Toolbox, either linear or not. Just another reason to run Windoze apps in full screen mode all of the time.
There was an unknown error in the submission.
yea but those royalties are for (some stupid patents I will grant you that) things that have existed on windows mobile platforms in the past, the ac is worried that they are going to grandfather it in which I doubt
... and vice versa.
Quite a few features on the Mac OS X UI are directly lifted from Enlightenment and similar projects. Enlightenment was the first UI emphasizing beauty and, for instance, had first spikes into OpenGL support about 10 years ago. They also were the the first to introduce the 'brushed metal' look throughout an entire UI. That all was back in the day when Mac OS 9 still looked like a souped up Windows 3.1 in a few places.
The new system settings tray introduced in Windows XP is a direct copy of the KDE settings layout of the time - which at the time also was a first. As where the Frog Design UI element designs.
All this is quite natural though, and can be taken for granted.
To be honest, I wouldn't take a professional UI designer serious, if he *weren't* intimately familiar with the various alternatives outside of mainstream OSes and UIs.
My 2 cents.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
It's not like Microsoft said, "hey, we invented an easy way to mount ISO's. Take THAT Linux! wait, you already have that? Oh well, our way is superior!"
It's more like Microsoft said, "Hey, we made ISO's easy to mount."
The rest of the crap comes from those who make a living trying to instigate fights between users in both camps.
This sequence of events is the very definition of arcane, might as well be in place of the definition. Originally, it meant requiring secret information, such as incantations where you need to know someone who knows it in order to learn it. More typically, it is used to mean something hidden or mysterious, or not immediately available. Roughly speaking, of course.
Regardless of whether it's man pages or something on an internet page, you have to find the command, understand which command line flags are right for you, and possibly replace parts of the command with things specific to your distribution. That can get complicated, depending on whether you found a website for your distro.
You would be much better off making the point that these things are not required in modern distributions, or that people who use the command line a lot are probably going to be able to cope. And if it's something you already know then it's not suddenly "non-arcane" knowledge - you have just been initiated to the group that knows it.
The article seem to only indicate borrowed stuff. But where's the images from Ubuntu and other OSes that proves similarity? For me, as a Windows user, I cannot relate to a lot of what this article try to prove.
And because it's very rarely used, most apps aren't written to expect it to be there and can cause all manner of compatibility problems.
It's also a pretty crude hack, it minimises all your apps when you switch desktop and on a slow machine or under load you can see it doing so.
Similarly, because its not installed by default chances are on a random machine your expected to use and on which your not allowed to install apps (eg the average corporate workstation) you cant use it.
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I'm sure I read somewhere that the Microsoft's first TCP/IP stack that they included as an upgrade for Windows For Workgroups 3.11 was essentially the Open Source BSD TCP/IP stack - not an issue because that's what it's there for, as long as licensing restrictions are adhered to.
Windows 10 is great - I used it to download Linux.
It seems like some thing that any OS has useing divers and don't you still need chipset / vender drivers on some systems anyways?
Definitely. "Oh noes, operating systems attempt to implement feature parity." Yawn.
Brian Fundakowski Feldman
Quite a few features on the Mac OS X UI are directly lifted from Enlightenment and similar projects.
Actually, I think you'll find that Enlightenment "lifted" features from NeXTSTEP, which significantly predates E. OSX is really just the latest and greatest flavor of NeXTSTEP.
XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
M$ has deep pockets and can pay an army of devs to actually do a better job at implementing and testing features that Linux has had for years. Whoop Tee Doo, look at them with their fancy QA staff.
Wake me when they add tabs to explorer.
Hard for me to judge which platform gets this right. However having run various flavors of Ubuntu over the past few years, and nothing more recent in Windows than Windows 7, I can't tell you whether Windows 8 does a better job of things or not.
Some time _after_ I can pick up a copy of Windows 8, or get a PC with Windows 8 on it, can I judge.
As a point of comparison, Microsoft was giving a reasonably large number of indications that Windows 7 was going to come with a wonderful new file system available to either replace or run along side of NTFS, but by the time they went gold had decided that the file system wasn't ready for production. I'm not suggesting that Linux gets every file system it deploys right first time. Just noting that until Microsoft has released, rather than the 'pre-beta' edition that can be downloaded by developers, you can't rely on what you see in the 'pre-beta' showing up in final release. If you think you can, ask WordPerfect about that.
You never know...
Yeah.. Linux. Microsoft totally ripped off Linux..before Linux existed. You people crack me up.
Yeah, only Windows Server is technical awesome on almost every level. It's not perfect for every scenario, but neither is Linux. 'course I'm spoiled and work in a corporation with easy/cheap access to it.
OS X has had hardware accelerated Quartz, "Quartz Extreme" since 10.2 Jaguar, available August 2002, so close enough to 10 years.
And yeah, as another replier notes, NEXTSTEP had hardware accelerated blitting in the 1980s. The window manager on a NeXT Cube is not noticeably less snappy moving windows around than a Mac of today.
you had me at #!
A keyboard, how quaint.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Microsoft has been chasing Linux Kernel features for years and is not getting any closer to catching up. The latest wannabe project is "me too" ReFS, an obvious imitation of Btrfs. Even the name is similar (at least Redmond came up with an equivalently forgettable one). And by the way, watch for patent troll Netapp to take an interest.
Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
Why does an app need to "expect" multiple desktops? What compatibility problems?
Even if it is a crude hack, is it worse than not having it?
I can't use LaTeX on the computers at work, either, but you'll get my laptop copy when you pry my cold, dead hands off it.
and mount in /mnt/volumename
Do all file systems necessarily include a volume name? If the filename, what should the system do if the user mounts two different images with the same file name in different folders
do you know how many customers I have who don't know how to install software in Windows? This is simple, Computer Literacy 101 stuff.
Having learned Windows on a user account with no administrative privileges will do that to you.
As long as the courts keep them from forcing you to pay the MS tax on a new system that you don't even want Windows on I'm fine with them being dominant.
In the past year, I haven't seen a single store in Fort Wayne, Indiana, selling computers with GNU/Linux that I can walk up to and try. All I see are Windows and Mac OS X. There used to be a couple GNU/Linux netbooks, but the only Linux computers one can find in stores anymore are Android tablets, and even those are licensed by Microsoft. Does System76 even have a showroom?
Linux of course being the paragon of originality, starting life as a clone of Unix with its GNU reimplementation of the userland.
If you freetards are so butthurt about evil Microsoft "stealing" your ideas why don't you patent it all. We all know how much you like patents, right?
It's even more telling that despite implementing many of these technologies first, Linux is still perceived as the underdog because the FOSS software community was so self-absorbed it never managed to get its shit together to make its technical advantages useful to real people in the real world (where the sun shines). It always takes MS or Apple to make all these great ideas relevant and accessible to people for whom computing is not a hobby/religion/job.
Windows can do some of this: dragging a file into an open Command Prompt window pastes its path. The feature worked in Windows 2000 and XP and was removed from Windows Vista for unspecified "security reasons" but (thankfully) restored in Windows 7.
'People', like me, will start to care when the software we run (for me it's games) run *natively* under the freely available operating systems.
use the open source equivalent
A lot of popular games for Windows or game consoles don't have a close substitute distributed as free software. What's the Free counterpart to Animal Crossing, Call of Duty, Portal, or Street Fighter? Or any of these?
It's not like Microsoft said, "hey, we invented an easy way to mount ISO's. Take THAT Linux! wait, you already have that? Oh well, our way is superior!"
It's more like Microsoft said, "Hey, we made ISO's easy to mount."
The rest of the crap comes from those who make a living trying to instigate fights between users in both camps.
More importantly, why are people arguing for the advantages of Windows over Linux when comparing desktop features? Last I check, MS's desktop competitor is OSX. We who uses Linux desktop daily knows that much of the "Linux desktop is too hard to use" is utter crap, but why is MS fanboy trying to raise this FUD? It is not like when their desktop users finally become fed up, they will switch to Linux en mass. At this point it is more likely OSX.
Where Windows is competing with Linux, on the servers, high-performance, etc, if you can't effing fire up a terminal to do simple task like this, get your hand off my expensive hardware!!!
The only possible interpretation of any research whatever in the 'social sciences' is: some do, some don't
"In Windows 8, Microsoft finally introduces mount ISO files .. No Linux distro does ISO mounting as easily as Windows 8, as it requires some command line trickery (or, again, third-party tools)".
/media, just like it always has, like every other ISO I've ever plugged in.
LIke, the local Ubuntu ISO shows in
"Windows To Go allows (enterprise) users to create a bootable Windows 8 environment on a USB 2.0/3.0 flash drive".
I've had this for over the past year. I wonder when Microsoft is going to come after me looking for licensing revenue for their 'innovation`?
AccountKiller
Because linux does not have to cater to retards.
When Average windows users start writing a bash script to thwart a DoS attack.
Let me know.
Props to this guy in a pinch.
Why give props to "this guy", if he's just doing what an average Linux user would do? ;)
By your logic, any user (Linux or otherwise) that hasn't already done this himself is a retard.
Considering you posted his code and not your own, I wonder which of the two you are
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COM
WMI
Reading slashdot one-liner: (irm http://rss.slashdot.org/Slashdot/slashdot).rdf.item | fl title,desc*
sad, that slashdot reposts such a stupid blog-entry.
Same thing is with Microsoft (or new Linux fans) when Apple release new version of OS X or iOS. Apple does say that new feature is a new thing for _their_ users. But when they specifically mock Microsoft, they really mentions it, like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-2C2gb6ws8
There are group of amateurs and fans who check both sides (Microsoft and Apple) and build up a war between them without even understanding what and how Microsoft and Apple say things.
But, there is a point, if world largest companies comes up and say "We invented this" and such "invention" is known and in wide use in Open Source world, it is not wise to say so. Better thing is to say where the idea came, or at least check what others are doing and say "We added same feature what those users have enjoyed".
Read the TFA:
Once mounted, a new drive letter appears in Windows Explorer that represents the virtual CD/DVD ROM
Your command line won't do that... and Aunty May isn't going to want to do su; cd /; mkdir A: B: C: D: ...etc. and then write a script to find the next free letter (and fail gracefully if they all got used when she connected to the company network). Even though lots of Linux distros have a click-n-drool mechanism for mounting ISOs I bet none of them will create a new drive letter for the volume!
Linux will never take off until all the godless commie nerds writing it forget about the temptations of the Unix file system and implement proper drive letters like every professional operating system since CP/M. Honest god-fearin' People need to know the difference between a device and a directory - or we'll all be doomed. I mean, look at the disgusting terminology: "mount point" for pity's sake! Its the work of the Devil!!!
In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
I came in and expected World War 3. I left after receiving world war 3.
So I'd say that if using Gentoo or Fedora those are believable outcomes. I'd also say if doing 'major' updates to Ubuntu I believe it. If you are running strictly Debian stable, Ubuntu LTS, RHEL/CentOS, or SuSE Enterprise, I've never heard of that going on there. Given Microsoft's technology cycle, the 'enterprise' editions are more comparable in terms of how long they have to get it right. The every-six-month releases do not provide an ample opportunity to get it as polished as the much longer release cycles.
However, amongst Linux enthusiasts (which proportionally is a lot more of the Linux world than Windows) those releases are boring and there are always new and shiny toys that are beyond your reach if you stick to the 'stable' releases. Hence more users trend toward bleeding edge and grumble when the consequences of that bite them.
I use the boring distros in a ton of places and Fedora on my laptop. My laptop does all manner of unfortunate things to me that my actual important servers never do by virtue of my choices. I recognize that as a price I pay to work with the technology.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
But the advantage of Android (and soon WOA) over Debian is that I can walk into a store and try a product that runs Android (or soon WOA).
Exactly. It's a little bit ironic also, when the topic is "Linux users were quick to chime in with a hearty 'Linux had that first'", atmittedly not very slashdot-worthy material, but guess what: 576 comments from Linux users saying "Linux had it first", "Linux does it better" and "Command lines are the best things ever."
Ironic. Please, you're better than that. Don't sound like you want to be the Amish of the digital age.
The topic is WINDOWS EIGHT.
Yes, Linux has most cool things first, because they throw new versions over the wall every six months. That's great for enthusiasts, really it is.
And meanwhile the biggest Linux distro is working very hard, as we speak, to ready a Start-button type functioanlity that doubles as search and a way to start applications by beginning to type the first couple of characters. Windows 7 had that, VISTA had that, but you all just thought 'Meh, it's just the Windows 95 Start Button'. And now you're busting your butts to get this one in before the end of April.
Reply to self, heh. :) As the topic is Windows (8) versus how things work on Linux, and how Linux is better, the following:
Looking at the Ubuntu Unity Start Button (what happens when you hit the Windows/Super key), you can now start typing a couple characters to do stuff or search for stuff. But in Windows, this feature:
- LEARNS which applications are started most often, so when you start typing 'C - A - L' it knows I'm most likely goint to start LibreOffice Calc, not the built-in calculator. ;)
- It HIGHLIGHTS the top choice so I know what will happen when I hit ENTER.
- If I want the second choice, all I need to do is hit the down-arrow to move to the next hit. In Unity, you need to go 'Down' and then 'Right'. 50% more effort!
- I can SEARCH from the same box. Facebook gets that. Google gets that. Microsoft clearly got it as far back as when they were working on Vista which is before some of you were born. And not only does it find files, it can find just about anything including e-mails, contacts, etc. In Unity I need to first select my 'lens'. And wven with the File lens selected, it STILL doesn't search when I hit enter, there's a separate search interface hidden in a menu in the Nautilus window. and when I say hidden, I really mean hidden these days, as Unitiy picks the worst of the Mac and Windows worlds by using a global application menu rusted solid in the top of the screen BUT ALSO hides it so I don't see it and don't know where I'm moving my mouse to. And get this, there's a separate lens to select/search for music files. Really? Why do I need to select this first, can't I just start typing 'bob marley' and let the GUI figure out it's not an Excel file?
- The start button (yes, I know, it'll be a page soon) serves as a SINGLE place to start. The smug jokes (since 1995) was that also 'shut down' was located there. But guess what, in Unity I need to wonder if I should go to the Unity launcher button, or the cog-wheel icon in the top-right of the screen where there are many things like system settings (the control panel; don't get me started), software updates, 'displays'. (really, can't it just turn it on when I plug in a projector like Windows does), and 'startup applications' (why is that there and not in the system settings / control panel? Why are half the appearance & behavior settings hidden either in Nautilus preferences or in some configuration tool that isn't even installed by default (Compiz Setrings Manager, which by the way manager more than just Compiz basics but also everything that can be configured about the whole Unity interface.)
Anyway, note that this is not an anti Unity rant, as clearly Gnome 2 was a prehistoric interface. It worked well and was stable and predictable, but it's time to move on. Eventually Unity (And Gnome 3) will get it right.
Windows 8 is just more of the same insecure bloatware from Microsoft. Only those with padlocked minds and no respect for their freedoms would choose an OS by this convicted monopolist.
But really, the entire topic's just a troll.
CLIs are for typists and computer experts. GUIs are for artists and computing beginners. Saying one is better than the other is like complaining that your bicycle is a terrible race car; it's pointless.
me too, but its nice to hear when things are getting tougher for the good folks at redmond