Canadian Music Industry Wants Subscriber Disclosure Without Court Oversight

An anonymous reader writes "The incredible demands of the Canadian music industry as it seeks a massive overhaul of Canadian copyright law continues. It is seeking increased liability for social networking sites, search engines, blogging platforms, video sites, and many other websites featuring third party contributions, plus a new iPod tax, and an extension in the term of copyright. Last week, it went further, demanding a requirement for Internet providers to disclose customer name and address information to copyright owners without court oversight as well as takedowns with no due process and unlimited statutory damages."

Comments

You used to be cool, Canada

[elrous0]

What happened to that Canada I remember, huh? The country to took in draft dodgers during Vietnam? The country that instituted universal healthcare? The country where "liberal" wasn't an insult? The country that wasn't afraid to zig when the U.S. zagged?

You've changed, man.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

I think next they are going to demand a moon base, gees.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

Stephen Harper happened.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[the_other_one]

We are now a Harptatorship.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Cabriel]

What the Labels want, and what they will get are two different things.

For example, just because I want a new car and a pony doesn't mean I'll get the pony.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[EdIII]

What happened to that Canada I remember, eh?

FTFY

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[eternaldoctorwho]

For example, just because I want a new car and a pony doesn't mean I'll get the pony.

What does this mean? I don't even

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

This hasn't passed yet. We massively protested the Lawful Access act(C30) and it's on hold now. Some of their demands are exactly why C30 didn't pass yet. I wouldn't be surprised if this doesn't pass too. What they are asking isn't in the bill yet, it's their wish list, a very naughty wish list.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[RicoX9]

Yes, but when your representatives are approached by the Music Industry and say "I want MOAR", and the representatives say "I want a beach house", and get it, the Music Industry gets what they want.

Corporatocracy - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatocracy

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Ironhandx]

Corporatocracy, ah ye hellish beast.

Also known in Canada as Harperatocracy.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Mordok-DestroyerOfWo]

What happened to that Canada I remember, huh? The country to took in draft dodgers during Vietnam? The country that instituted universal healthcare? The country where "liberal" wasn't an insult? The country that wasn't afraid to zig when the U.S. zagged?

You've changed, man.

Amen. Although, in a certain light this may be a good thing. As a United Statsian, I've observed that my own clinically insane government tends to want to distance itself from our northern cousins, maybe (albeit not bloody likely) we'll start to pare back copyright to a more reasonable level. On the other hand, we may simply up the ante and make copyright eleventy billion years. But even that may not be a bad thing, the more ridiculous copyright is, the more people will ignore it. Even right now the average person on the street doesn't see a ethical problem with consuming media that was illegally distributed. Not everything that is immoral is illegal, and not everything that is illegal is immoral.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[compro01]

What the Labels want, and what they will get are two different things.

Not with the Corpservatives in power.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[SuricouRaven]

That's how politics is done. If you want A, you demand A, B, C, D, E and F... knowing that your opponents will argue strongly, and not give up until they have something of a victory. So they defeat you on B, C, D, E and F, and declare themselves successful - but you get away with A, which is what you wanted all along. Everything else was just to play the game.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

Basically, history repeating itself. The radical right snuck in.

Once upon a time, the Republican party in the US were decent and respectable. Case in point, Abe Lincoln. Then Nixon and the rest of his radical right invaded the party and made a dramatic "course correction".

In Canada, the conservative party used to be a pretty decent set of people. Boring, but trustworthy. Then Brian Mulroney came along, introduced a number of measures that generated so much great deal of dislike ("free trade" and a federal sales tax) for the party that they shrank to a tiny fraction of their former size. The radical right, calling themselves "the Reform Party", were generally regarded as a bunch of dangerous kooks and hence didn't have a chance of getting into power. However, they brokered a merger with the now pitiful Conservative party, gaining a few seats, but more importantly, getting the right to use the "Conservative Party" name. People might have been embarrassed to vote for the Reform Party, but the voting for "Conservative Party" was a family tradition. The new "Conservative Party" eventually managed a few minority governments because the center and left wing votes were split among too many other parties before eventually winning a majority government.

And yes, most of us are embarrassed by being represented by Stephen Harper as you were when George Bush Jr was in power.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Hamsterdan]

Harper gained a majority government

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Lucky75]

As a Canadian, I can confirm that the above post is an accurate depiction of what happened.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

We should make a strong counter proposal:

1) Shorten copyright to 10 years
2) Remove the levy on blank media
3) Quit whining about "profits" - you aren't "entitled" to them; you have to go earn them. Yes, this means you don't get any more laws to prop up legacy methods of distribution.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[DarwinSurvivor]

Actually, I believe it started earlier than that. Harper may have started the "privacy" stuff, but we've been bending over to the Americans since NAFTA and the softwood lumber issue started.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

I am perfectly willing to give them all of these enforcement tools.
I return I want a flat 14 year non-extendable unchangable term
for copyright!
Deal??

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[DarwinSurvivor]

I don't think that's a fair comparison. C30 was initially pushed by around a half-dozen politicians looking for a power grab and we are STILL fighting it (and probably will be for a quite a while). This proposed bill is being pushed by multi-BILLION dollar corporations who buy politicians just so they can borrow their yacht for the weekend.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[eddy the lip]

This is true, but the rate that things have accelerated at since last spring scares the living bejeezus out of me.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Beardo the Bearded]

That's up for debate.

If the Liberals or NDP are behind the robocalls and election tampering, a judicial inquiry would destroy those two leaderless parties.

For some reason, the most politically astute opportunist in Canadian history (Harper) is choosing not to call for an inquiry and letting the opponent he's sworn to destroy at any cost (The LPC) recuperate.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[stealth_finger]

What the Labels want, and what they will get are two different things.

For example, just because I want a new car and a pony doesn't mean I'll get the pony.

If you had the clout they had you might get a van and a horse.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Beardo the Bearded]

2 years. That's enough time to get the cash from a top-40 hit, have any game be relegated to a "classic" / "greatest hits", and get a movie released onto DVD.

After that, it's all public domain.

You would still require judicial oversight and a warrant.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[hairyfeet]

Simple the USSA let the corps become so damned powerful that they spread like a cancer across the land, that's what. When you can have congressman stand there with a straight face and say there is nothing wrong with copyright terms even though most of Walt Disney's FIRST works, made when planes were made of cloth and antibiotics were just a dream, is STILL under copyright and will be long after anyone reading this is dead? Well you can just give it up chuck.

Frankly there is only one thing we can do now, and that is complete ignore the unjust laws and do everything we can to help our geek brethren to create the darknet, so that we can abandon the web to the giant corporate home shopping network they have every intention of turning it into. Mark my words they'll go after the indie labels and artists next, they'll use SLAPPs to bury them alive in lawsuits. That is because its all about CONTROL and not any kind of theft, they want the ability to control everything you see and hear and lock the world behind a paywall. With their endless copyrights I'm sure they have every combination of the 12 note western scale already copyrighted somewhere. as soon as the new album is done with my band I intend to put it everywhere i possibly can but frankly i wouldn't be surprised if we get SLAPPed, even though its just three guys with real instruments and no sampling.

And don't think boycotts or not helping yourselves will do ANY good, as they'll just use PPT math against you. They'll show the politicians a PPT that says "Our figures indicate that since we made X last year we should have made X + Y this year and we didn't! It must be those pirates!" and they'll get more power and control. Its a great "heads i win tails you lose' scam and sadly there is nothing we can do about it. so help yourselves friends, if you like an artist go see their show, that's probably the ONLY money they'll be seeing anyway.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

Harper is doing very well and I don't understand how you can relate his party with what the music industry wants to do. The music industry can rally any bill they wish just as you or me. The difference is that they are more influential and by influential I mean bribe-worthy. The music industry has been corrupt for a long time and the only way to get rid of this corruption is to stop paying into it and ignoring it completely. Once it no longer becomes a union, music can be music again.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[forkfail]

This.

The dark side is always the one controlling the fight.

The only way there will be any justice for the consumer is if it is us that name the terms of the fight, not them.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[sconeu]

Not Nixon. Reagan. Nixon would be lambasted as a RINO these days.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[girlintraining]

The country to took in draft dodgers during Vietnam?

False. They only took people before they were drafted. Once the person here received a actual draft order by the military, Canada did not help them (not officially, anyway).

The country where "liberal" wasn't an insult?

It's an insult from anyone who's conservative. It just happens to be that, unlike here in the US, politics is not a professional sponsored sport, but a serious civil matter where citizens and politicians both give measured and well-reasoned responses to questions posed to them. But then, that's true almost anywhere in the first world, excepting the US and greece.

The country that wasn't afraid to zig when the U.S. zagged?

Canada has no real military power and relies heavily on the United States for its economic stability and well-being. Until recently, the United States was happy to let its neighbor do its own thing... but like in the past, they wanted them to keep an eye out for nazis, and after that communists, and after that terrorists, and after that.... music downloaders. The US has always influenced canadian government... but it's usually been over matters of actual national security or mutually-beneficial economic arrangements. But as I'm sure people have noticed... the US is no longer distinguishing between national security and corporate profit. Canada isn't exactly thrilled with the prospect of having an idiot cousin living next door that chews on the couch ends and goes frothing at the mouth whenever it sees a gay person walk by... but you know, still family. What can ya do, eh?

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[kermidge]

4. Mandatory drug tests for all members, agents, employees of CIMA

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

1) Shorten copyright to 10 years, 5 years max if the copyright is not the creator.
2) No contract with artist for more than 5 years.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Oxford_Comma_Lover]

What is the softwood lumber issue, and why would bending over be problematic if wood is soft?

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[JeanCroix]

The ones most likely to dodge the draft during Vietnam were also the ones most likely to become record company executives when they reached middle age. Unintended consequences, eh?

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[slick7]

We are now a Harptatorship.

ZIEG Harp...ZIEG Harp...ZIEG Harp!!!

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Yvan256]

1) Shorten copyright to 5 years (to be able to "concede" to 10 years).
2) Remove levy on all blank media AND all devices (portable or not)
3) (same as you wrote)

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[gmhowell]

The citizenry cannot escape blame for Harper any more than an American can escape blame for Bush (and his wars of choice).

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[quacking duck]

It's not scaring enough Canadians, even after they've kept doing what they do best since betraying the Progressive Conservatives when the Reform/Canadian Alliance takeover happened. Despite betraying seniors (pension reform), slandering veterans (Conservative MP called card-carrying Conservative veterans communists and Putin lovers after they complained he'd nodded off during a veterans affairs committee meeting), calling half their conservative base pedophiles for opposing massive privacy intrusions, evidence of significant election fraud scandal that forms the basis for our entire damn democracy... and yet Conservative approval ratings are still high.

Seriously, are those on the right THAT blinded by ideology that anything other than the so-called Conservatives are evil?

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

What happened? They got all soft and squishy from a mix of England and France, add cowardly hippies and socialism, the corporations, bureaucrats, and politicians walk right in, erect and ready.

        The trees are all kept equal, hatchet, ax and saw....

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[quacking duck]

Forget Nixon, REAGAN would be lambasted as a RINO if he went into the Republican race today. Like all hero worship, the actions that don't conform to current ideology are conveniently ignored.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[quacking duck]

Damn, I used up all my mod points this morning. Parent deserves a +5 Insightful

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[flyneye]

We're a Canadian band
We're a Canadian band
We're comin' to your town
We'll take your website down
We're a Canadian band

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[msobkow]

The robocall scandal happened.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[wiedzmin]

That's arguable. While the failure of any democracy is in the fact that citizenry tends to vote only for leaders they're smart enough to understand, there are also other factors in them coming to power. For example, I think there are many similarities in leaders like Bush, Harper and Putin coming to power in how the votes are obtained/counted. Google, for example, "conservative robocall scandal" or "russian carousel voting"...

Canadian elections are even worse, because of the "riding" system - where Harper can receive the majority with 54% seats by riding, and proceed to pass whatever legislation he feels like, while by actual vote count conservatives only got 39% votes. How's that for a democratic process?

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

since NAFTA and the softwood lumber issue started.

Canada won against the Americans in NAFTA court repeatedly. The most recent ruling on softwood lumber had the American government paying damages.

Then Stephen Harper happened and he just let the whole thing go.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[dryeo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada%E2%80%93United_States_softwood_lumber_dispute

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[dryeo]

We'll even compromise. They can keep the levy on cassette tapes and 8 tracks. Then we can concede CDRoms. DVDs are much more useful nowadays anyways.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[eddy the lip]

I live in rural Alberta, so I'm dead in the Conservative heartland. I'm an hours drive from Stockwell Day's old stomping ground.

Talking to people during the last election, I heard two things: oil sands and economy. A lot of people in Alberta think that anyone other than the Conservatives will kill the oil sands and cost jobs, and that the only party that's strong on the economy is the Conservatives. They could prorogue parliament, insult vets, cut any program they felt like, and those two items would still trump it.

I was actually surprised how little ideology I ran into. It's the first election I've gone out and really engaged people to find out why they were voting Tory. People here like their big trucks, and they don't want to lose their big trucks, and everything else is secondary.

I have no idea what GTAs excuse was.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[bubkus_jones]

As much as Stephen Harper has been a pain, and how much people may dislike that he was elected, the point is, every election he's lead the Conservatives, they've increased the number of seats they controlled, while Stephane Dion and Michael Ignatief couldn't even get elected in their home ridings. That's the biggest thing about Liberal supporters that irritates me, these days. They're all "Harper's evil and is ruining this country" and "No one wants Harper" and crap like that, while ignoring the fact that he's getting the votes. As far as the election system goes, the people who voice their opinion (in the only way that counts) want Harper.

They go on to complain about the ever decreasing voter turnout, but don't think about how it seems to coincide with the ever decreasing of people voting for the Liberals. They want change, an alternative to Harper, but can't offer any viable candidate. The candidates they did find (the aformentioned Dion and Ignatief) were wooden, subpar speakers (from what I saw in various interviews and debates) and seemed rather airheaded. They reminded me of characters I created in middle and high school (grades 6-12) for "creative writing" assignments in English. Harper, to me, seems to have an actual personality, like you could actually converse with him in a normal fashion if you were two people who just happen to pass each other on the street.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Demolition]

False. They only took people before they were drafted. Once the person here received a actual draft order by the military, Canada did not help them (not officially, anyway).

Not true. Canada turned a blind eye to draft dodgers because draft evasion is not a crime here. Official records show that as many as 30,000 draft evaders came up here, but unofficially many more slipped across the border without declaring themselves because Customs and Immigration officials were instructed not to question people about their draft status. After the amnesty was declared in 1977, about half of them returned to the U.S., but the other half stayed here and most became Canadian citizens.

Deserters were another matter because desertion is a crime here. Our military condemned the practice, but ended up looking the other way, despite pressure from the U.S. military. Subsequently, our government only paid minimal attention to it (i.e. nobody was charged with an offence and/or deported). The only times that deserters were charged were when they voluntarily returned to the U.S.

On a personal note, I know many draft evaders and a few deserters because my family is originally from a town in southeastern B.C. where we welcomed them with open arms. We already had an interesting mix of First Nations, hippies, Doukhobors, descendants of WW2 Japanese-Canadian internees, Mennonites, loggers, and farmers, and were known as a haven for pacifists, so an influx of hundreds of people resisting a war was considered fairly normal. As a result, we all got along and it wasn't surprising when many of these men (and their families) also became Canadian citizens.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[gmhowell]

Then perhaps the other 61% need to protest. Loudly. Unpleasantly. Constantly.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[alaffin]

Harper is just copying what Martin tried many, many moons ago when the Liberals were still relevant. The current bill is not that different from C-60 which was introduced in 2005 by the Liberals. That failed when government fell, as did C-61 and C-32 (which were introduced by the Conservatives). Harper's not any more evil - he's just better at it because he can lead his party to a majority...

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[ScrewMaster]

We are now a Harptatorship.

Or is it a Dickharpership?

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

When I was living in the states I constantly had to hold back my laughter every time someone said "huh", which was too often. It always sounded like someone just shoved something up their ass.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[ILongForDarkness]

That is just it the other parties have had weak candidates with the exception (at least in comparison to how they normally do) the NDP (sadly they lost their charismatic leader so who knows how they'll do next time). Harper better than the alternatives != Harper good. That said living in Ontario I blame more of the problems on McGuinty than Harper but still Harper was a bit to much of Bush's best friend/clone for my taste back in the day.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

I was one of over 85000 people who protested Bill C30. It deserves to be killed, and needs to be killed. Who are these idiots in the Canadian Music Industry, and how attached are they to their American handlers? They seem bent on killing civil liberties! How much crap do the rest of us have to put up with "To Save The Children" or "To protect us from terrorists" or some other such rubbish? Copyright should be 20 years MAXIMUM! I'm getting tired of these kinds of bills 'nearly passing'. We need to end the stupidity. Things have gone way too far.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[drussell]

Actually, I believe it started earlier than that. Harper may have started the "privacy" stuff

It wasn't the Harper government... The Liberals tabled far wider reaching anti-privacy and oversight legislation!! It was the conservatives that avoided that only to now bring their own only-slightly-less-ridiculous bills...

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Isaac Remuant]

For those who might not know it, this is referred to as the Door in the face technique.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

It's the age problem. Too many older Canadians compared to younger. We'll be better-off once the Boomers are gone, but that's a good while from now.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

May I suggest an alternative?

Shortening copyright to 10 years will run afoul of various international treaties, and so will never get passed. But...how about we allow a 100% exemption for non-commercial use after 10 years? I.e. copyright is maintained per all the various agreements, but if you want to make a mix tape, or a YouTube video, or send a copy to your friend, as long as you don't charge for it, it's OK. That is something that can be reasonably accomplished domestically without (AFAIK) running afoul of any treaty obligations.

Please spread this meme...

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[green1]

The problem is that every other party had points in their platform that stated that they WOULD kill the oil sands.

The biggest problem in Canadian politics isn't that the Conservatives are popular (they actually aren't) the problem is that the other parties are managing to be even less popular than the Conservatives. If any party manages to come up with a good leader they will win the next election by a landslide, but as long as we keep seeing the likes of Ignatief or Dion the Conservatives don't exactly have much to worry about.

I'm Albertan too, and there is no way I could bring myself to vote conservative, but it's no mystery to me why others do, or why the liberals can't get any seats. (I actually voted for an independent last election (knowing full well that in my riding the Conservative would win, but refusing to vote for them))

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[anubi]

I'd like to see them pass the tax, cause the only reason one buys an Ipod is to listen to music.......

But....

In the same stroke of the pen, completely eliminate ALL copyright infringement for any music played on the Ipod, cause the tax is considered payment.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Toze]

Perhaps you have forgotten what happened to Alberta the last time a PM decided to kill Albertan oil production and what effect it had on Alberta's economy. He was called Trudeau, and his name's still a curse word in the province. Albertans are one-issue voters because that one issue is the difference between big trucks and *years of grinding poverty* for many families, and that one issue has come up before in the worst possible way.

That said, I'm disgusted beyond words with the Tories and wouldn't shed a tear if a meteor hit Parliament. /shrug

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Toze]

Loudly. Unpleasantly. Constantly.

I think you may have missed the part where he said "Canadian." We protest politely, or we start lighting up car bombs and assassinating people. We don't really have an in-between state like you Americans.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

You'd laugh and nod at the "big trucks" if you lived here, although they've gotten more conservative in recent years

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[gmhowell]

Loudly. Unpleasantly. Constantly.

I think you may have missed the part where he said "Canadian." We protest politely, or we start lighting up car bombs and assassinating people. We don't really have an in-between state like you Americans.

I suggest you go with the polite protest, but with a slight modification: Instead of saying "pretty please, could you listen to us" switch it to "please, could you listen to us?" Just a thought.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[eddy the lip]

I do understand the other parties didn't do themselves any favours. One thing that no one seems to be talking about is how poorly the Conservatives (federal and provincial) are managing the oil sands. Right now Ft. McMurray is a keg at a frat party, and we'll pay for every pint you drink. You *can* keep from being bled dry by multi-nationals, address environmental concerns and not crash the Alberta economy all at the same time. But we're dealing with sound bite politics, and Harper has hired some people that are very, very good at that.

I think Ignatief and Dion would both have been good Prime Ministers, but, no, they weren't electable. See other story today. And neither of them were capable of countering the campaign the Conservatives put forward.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[eddy the lip]

No, not forgotten. That Trudeau's name is mud here has nothing to do with whether or not his policies were good, though, and everything to do with how they were portrayed. You can get beat on the street for saying that the National Energy Policy was a good thing, but it was the only thing that kept our economy from crashing in the late seventies. That's a long conversation, though, and it's late. (I was a dyed in the wool Conservative at the time, wouldn't fuel up at a Petro Can. I think I was wrong.)

I miss the days we could have an honest disagreement about policy - cut corporate taxes? two-tiered health care? - rather than worrying about whether the governing party has any respect for parliament, the people or the constitution. God help me, I miss Mulroney.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[eddy the lip]

Bah,sorry - eighties, not seventies. After a while all the decades start to blur together.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[silentcoder]

>like you could actually converse with him in a normal fashion if you were two people who just happen to pass each other on the street.

This metaphor will make absolutely no sense to American readers. He means: "If you were a cute girl he was trying to pick up in a bar."

*Tries to think of any other occasion where Americans are friendly to strangers... nah, drawing a blank here.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Forty Two Tenfold]

No, they just want more money. Now they want the Internet money. Or the strike shall continue.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[jenningsthecat]

...while ignoring the fact that he's getting the votes.

Not really "getting the votes", rather "getting the seats". The Conservatives got less than 40% of the votes cast in the last election. That means that more than 60% of the people who voted DIDN'T want Harper as PM.

Harper, to me, seems to have an actual personality, like you could actually converse with him in a normal fashion if you were two people who just happen to pass each other on the street.

Really? The first time I ever saw the man, before I knew anything about him, he positively gave me the creeps. There are plenty of other politicians whose policies and attitudes I've despised to the point of hatred, (former PM Brain Mulroney and former Premier Mike Harris come to mind), whom I could nevertheless imagine sitting down and having a beer with. Whereas I'd feel uncomfortable being in the same room with Harper.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[jenningsthecat]

People here like their big trucks, and they don't want to lose their big trucks, and everything else is secondary.

Seriously, that sounds like an ideology to me. Not sophisticated, not well thought out, but an ideology nonetheless.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Painted]

Radical. What do you think we are, barbarians?

I hope my post has in no way offended you, and if it did, I offer my sincere apologies.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

That's a brilliant idea since you need to use CD-R's to make audio CDs!

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[lonecrow]

Please refer to this slashdot article for the answer
http://politics.slashdot.org/story/12/03/05/1348203/scientists-say-people-arent-smart-enough-for-democracy-to-flourish

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[eddy the lip]

Yeah, that's fair. Guess I was just unreasonably happy that it wasn't "the gays are ruining our marriages!" Or at least that it wasn't voiced.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[gmhowell]

The CIA factbook is just never going to change Canada's entry from 'harmless' to 'mostly harmless', are they?

Unlimited statutory damages?

[viperidaenz]

Since there isn't an unlimited amount of money in the world, the safest option is to set it to zero.

Re:Unlimited statutory damages?

[Adriax]

But when their beancounters divide their revenue target by their average damage award to find out how many lawsuits they want to file in a year, it'll be dividing by zero! That will create a localized singularity that'll wipe their offices off the face of....

Oooooohhhhhhhhh....
Ok.

Re:Unlimited statutory damages?

[Errol backfiring]

What makes you think that?

Re:Unlimited statutory damages?

[viperidaenz]

Because too often people in my industry mistake null for 0.

Holy Handgrenades Batman

[Wild_dog!]

Talk about the apparent obliteration of citizens rights.... I thought the US was starting to turn to the darkside, but Canada is working hard eh?

Re:Holy Handgrenades Batman

[Anonymous Coward]

Canada and Australia are crazy in terms of citizen privacy and freedom laws.

Re:Holy Handgrenades Batman

[TubeSteak]

They're just following the old principle of "ask for a mile, settle for 804 meters"

Re:Holy Handgrenades Batman

[gstoddart]

Talk about the apparent obliteration of citizens rights.... I thought the US was starting to turn to the darkside, but Canada is working hard eh?

Sadly, this is likely coming from American groups applying pressure. There seems to be a lot of lobbying by foreign organizations on this front.

The copyright lobby won't be happy until they've managed to make sure that the internet can only function according to their rules. And they want everyone else to pay for it.

Fucking parasites.

Re:Holy Handgrenades Batman

[Anonymous Coward]

If you think any country in the world is going to be a haven of citizen rights, you're dreaming. The internet has made free speech and information exchange more available than ever. These are problems for just about any form of government or cartel modeled business.

Besides, we've got a world sized population to indoctrinate into the idea that every country has to give up it's individuality and citizen rights, if it had any, in order to create a world order that will be sustainable in the long run. Even the fellow that invented the Gaia theory says that our current ecological/climate problems will require the suspension of democracy and citizen rights to solve.

Re:Holy Handgrenades Batman

[seantide]

Its not coming from *AMERICAN* groups. Any group that pushes for bullshit like this is by definition un-American. This kind of mental disease is worldwide. I wish it were only America, we'd have a better chance of fighting it if it were.

iPod tax?!

[Anonymous Coward]

So does that mean that they're happy with me using any other brand of PMP?

Re:iPod tax?!

[viperidaenz]

Does it mean its legal to pirate music on iPods because the copyright lobby is getting paid for the sale of the item because it could be used for piracy? Like their blank CD tax...

Re:iPod tax?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Does it mean its legal to pirate music on iPods because the copyright lobby is getting paid for the sale of the item because it could be used for piracy? Like their blank CD tax...

Nope, you get to pay the tax and get fucked in the arse.

Re:iPod tax?!

[gstoddart]

Does it mean its legal to pirate music on iPods because the copyright lobby is getting paid for the sale of the item because it could be used for piracy? Like their blank CD tax...

Again, another case of them wanting to have their cake and eat it too.

They want the tax, er, levy ... and they want to make sure any form of copying is also illegal.

They're talking about making it a criminal offense to break any form of digital lock, for any reason. So, my old copy of DVD Decryptor is now a WMD. So much for fait use and some of our other rights.

Re:iPod tax?!

[viperidaenz]

a Weapon of Mass Decryption?

Re:iPod tax?!

[GmExtremacy]

A human could murder someone for no reason. Therefore, we need to punish everyone before that happens! Let's just throw everyone in prison! That'll show them!

Re:iPod tax?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed. You want to charge an iPod tax - fine by me*, just give the Canadian public carte blanche to download to their heart's content. Actually, I thought they already did that by taxing CDs.

* allocating funds to the deserving artists is another matter altogether.

Re:iPod tax?!

[green1]

Currently in Canada, because of the levy on blank media, it is perfectly legal, for private use, to download music that you haven't paid for (because you ARE paying for it when you buy blank media.) This has been upheld in court.

What's happening now though is that the music industry wants to change this, they want to make it illegal to download music, as well as making it extremely easy to track you down without any due process... oh, and they want more money on the blank media levy while they're at it.

If this passes, and it goes to court, I'm fairly certain it would be deemed unconstitutional. You can't apply an across the board levy that assumes every citizen is breaking the law. Either the levy, or the restriction on private copying would have to go.

Re:iPod tax?!

[AlamedaStone]

A human could murder someone for no reason. Therefore, we need to punish everyone before that happens! Let's just throw everyone in prison! That'll show them!

We're working on it. Please remain where you are.

Color me shocked

[MonsterTrimble]

The CRIA is the canadian arm of the RIAA. They just reached a settlement to pay $47.5 million to songwriters which they had been screwing for decades Why is anyone surprised they would try for this?

Re:Color me shocked

[MonsterTrimble]

My bad - it's the Canadian Independent Music Association (CIMA), not the CRIA.

Re:Color me shocked

[Anonymous Coward]

They just reached a settlement to pay $47.5 million to songwriters which they had been screwing for decades Why is anyone surprised they would try for this?

That sounds like major criminal level copyright infringement and this level of piracy is rife in the music industry. Why should artists have to go to all this trouble to get their due? Surely what we need is a system whereby artists can bypass the legal system to secure license fees for commercial usage of their works?

Re:Color me shocked

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow... this and the level of hypocrisy in the Vic Troes debacle. Is it something in the Canadian water?

Re:Color me shocked

[compro01]

No, the CIMA is a different bunch.

The group formerly known as the CRIA changed their name to "Music Canada" last year.

Re:Color me shocked

[tlhIngan]

The CRIA is the canadian arm of the RIAA

Yes, it is. In fact, most of the Canadian labels LEFT CRIA! They had serious disagreements over suing those who pirated (like the RIAA labels did) and most left. What's left are the big three, and it's not really representing Canadian music at all.

As an aside, who wants to bet that this is the REAL reason why that spy bill was introduced? Not for the police, but for the music and movie industry?

Re:Color me shocked

[jamstar7]

They were young and needed the money?

Re:Color me shocked

[realityimpaired]

Just the grape koolaid the Conservatives have been drinking. Most of us think that they're a bunch of nutjobs, but unfortunately, because of the fucked up way our electoral system is set up, and the appallingly low voter turnout, they managed to get a majority government.

There's something to be said for the Australian system, where you could lose your citizenship if you don't vote.

Re:Color me shocked

[Anonymous Coward]

the Vic Troes debacle

Well, at least you got some of the letters in Toews correct.

Re:Color me shocked

[DarwinSurvivor]

It's called the Internet, and the music industry is trying the damnest to make sure the artists never hear about it.

Re:Color me shocked

[DarwinSurvivor]

And you think it would turn out any better with 90% of the voting populace being completely uninformed about the candidates? What you'd most likely end up with would be people ether handing in blank/invalid ballots (they are anonymous after all) or simply picking the one at the top of the page. The only good that could POSSIBLY come of this would be that minority parties would get more representation. But remember, for every GOOD minority party, there are also VERY, VERY BAD ones. I'm not talking "destroy the environment" bad, I'm talking white-supremest bad (no joke, take a look at some of the parties that never get seats, it's bloody frightening what some of them push).

Re:Color me shocked

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not the artists, it is the suits. And the suits do not pass any of the gains along to the artists unless they are forced to

Re:Color me shocked

[Beardo the Bearded]

Most of us think that they're a bunch of nutjobs, but unfortunately, because of the fucked up way our electoral system is set up, and the appallingly low voter turnout, .

Well, that's because someone's been tampering with the system. That someone should, ideally, be preserved and hanged from Parliament Hill as an example to others.

I am not picky about the order in which those are done nor the methods used.

Re:Color me shocked

[Beardo the Bearded]

My brother signed a deal with Universal. They sold some records, did okay, then Universal decided that they would just do whatever they wanted and ignore the contract. "After all, we've got more lawyers..."

They went from offering tens of thousands for each band member when signing -- to handing them a bill for $50k when they asked for the cash. "Oh, after pressing, studio time, distribution, it looks like you owe us a fortune."

My brother and his bandmates called Universal's bluff, but they ended up walking away from the contract, and they can't sign with anyone else.

Re:Color me shocked

[Maow]

As an aside, who wants to bet that this is the REAL reason why that spy bill was introduced? Not for the police, but for the music and movie industry?

In light of the robo-call fiasco, among other instances of election fraud committed by Conservatives, and the fact that the "spying bill" allowed for anyone designated by the minister to harvest records from ISPs, I'd be my money on the spying bill being to dig dirt on future opposition candidates to ensure there will never be another free & fair election again.

Imagine a bunch of conbot hacks pulling records on Liberal & NDP candidates and releasing anything remotely unsavoury about them during the next election campaign. Those attack ads worked last time; we ain't seen nothing yet.

Canada has suffered a coup, though so far I'm the only one I'm aware of that phrases it that way.

Re:Color me shocked

[dryeo]

I used to routinely vote for the Rhinos, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinoceros_Party_of_Canada_(1963%E2%80%931993) who actually came in second in a couple of elections. I see they've now been replaced by the neorhinos http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhino_party.
They had some good campaign promises starting with promising to break every one. Unluckily the Conservatives have changed the election rules so much that only rich established parties can now get on the ballot.

Re:Color me shocked

[Ltap]

But this is the Christian Heritage Party's moment to shine!

Note to people somehow unable to use internet search: the CHP is (from memory) anti-abortion, anti-contraception, all the way up to (some degree) antidivorce. Seeing one of their election signs on a front lawn is a good warning to stay away from the property owner.

Re:Color me shocked

[Anonymous Coward]

This has already happened with different laws. This will just allow more covert actions, where people can't really protest, since they will not even know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juliet_O'Neill

The above is an example where "2001 anti-terror laws" were used against a journalist because her reporting was deemed troublesome by some people in police. Basically, the Maher Arar case where a Canadian citizen was deported to Syria and tortured for a year from the US after Canadian police provided "evidence" that he had contacts with terrorists...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maher_Arar

Re:Color me shocked

[green1]

They now know that they can't hide the internet from the artists, so they've switched to a policy of trying to break the internet so the artists can't use it without paying up.

Re:Color me shocked

[Anonymous Coward]

Partisan much? By "those attack ads" you mean the ones used in Canadian politics since ads were first used? As for pulling records, apparently you have no concept of recent events - vikileaks for instance?

Canadians have kept politics a non-sporting event and at least seemed to try to focus on actual issues, but more and more it seems people are picking a team and demonizing everyone else.

Re:Color me shocked

[Maow]

By "those attack ads" you mean the ones used in Canadian politics since ads were first used?

Liar.

      As for pulling records, apparently you have no concept of recent events - vikileaks for instance?

Publicly available court documents are different than, say, your history of surfing for big-strong-daddy-porn.

[...] it seems people are picking a team and demonizing everyone else.

That you be what you con-bots are doing. Remember, a Liberal PM called the inquiry into Liberal Adscam. When's your beloved Dear Leader Harper gonna call an inquiry into his party's election fraud? Waiting... Oh, look, he's blamed a rogue operative just out of college, the Liberals, and now Elections Canada themselves. Pathetic.

Partisan much?

You keep lying if it makes you feel better, but no one but other con-bots believe it anymore. No one.

Why all this silliness?

[Securityemo]

Whenever this comes up it seems like the music industry behaves like a frightened animal in every single instance. Why doesn't it try to play it cool? Surely they must realize how these things sound to others? Or is "I want everything and the kitchen sink and I want it now" an actual, valid legal tactic that's reasonable given their circumstances?

Re:Why all this silliness?

[0123456]

Whenever this comes up it seems like the music industry behaves like a frightened animal in every single instance. Why doesn't it try to play it cool?

What do they have to lose? Without draconian copyright laws they'll be closing their doors in a few years.

Re:Why all this silliness?

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly. They simply cannot afford a free-information world, and they know it, and so they will throw in every spare penny they have trying to screw us over first.

Re:Why all this silliness?

[dryeo]

This way they can pretend to be reasonable when they compromise by letting us share the kitchen sink.

Yeah but ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Corporations are entitled to a profit. Anyone not buying product from them is guilty of the heinous crime of depriving a CEO of the rewards he is entitled to for being a CEO.

Found this...

[ilsaloving]

Hey, USA! *holds up rat traps with RIAA lawyers attached*

We found these in our garage. We left some money on a shelf the other day, figuring it would be ok, but it looks like these lil guys detected the scent and chewed their way inside. Do you want them back, or should we just take them to animal control to be euthanized?

Re:Found this...

[rotorbudd]

Just smash 'em with that shovel hanging on the garage wall.

Re:Found this...

[Anonymous Coward]

Only if you promise to make it as a painful as possible when you euthanized or wise jsut drop them out of your next 30K+ flight in said cages.

Re:Found this...

[jamstar7]

Feet first through the wood chipper work for you?

Re:Found this...

[Anonymous Coward]

feed them to the polar bears

Re:Found this...

[c]

> ...or should we just take them to animal control to be euthanized?

You mean they aren't dead? Who the hell live traps lawyers?!?

I Want Free Donuts For Life

[Anonymous Coward]

Come on. Draft a law requiring Dunkin Donuts to give me free donuts for life, Congress!

Re:I Want Free Donuts For Life

[dakohli]

Sorry Buddy, This is Canada, that would be Tim Horton's Donuts for life!

Re:I Want Free Donuts For Life

[JimCanuck]

Day old donuts that have been trucked across country from central bakeries. Sounds like good eating.

Re:I Want Free Donuts For Life

[gstoddart]

Sorry Buddy, This is Canada, that would be Tim Horton's Donuts for life!

Haven't you noticed the spread of the evil Starbucks?

It'll be biscotti and triple-foam low-fat chai latte with cinnamon sprinkles before long. :-P

Re:I Want Free Donuts For Life

[Beardo the Bearded]

That's not true. They're day old FROZEN donuts made in a huge factory in Ontario.

That's why I get my donuts at a local bakery. A dozen and a half fresh-baked donuts for $5.25. (I get them from the OEM supplier for most of the cafes in town.)

Re:I Want Free Donuts For Life

[Capt.DrumkenBum]

Yes, most Canadians have noticed the spread of Starbucks. While Tim Horton's no longer has good donuts, at least the coffee isn't burnt like Starbucks!

Re:I Want Free Donuts For Life

[JimCanuck]

They still are a day old, frozen or not. Swill that used to be sold by the bag at donut shops pre-Tim Hortons for 25 cents a dozen to the homeless, by every other coffee shop. Now the average Canadian gladly pays quite a bit more for a dozen of these donuts.

Re:I Want Free Donuts For Life

[dakohli]

To be completely honest, I prefer my coffee from Tim's and my donuts from Robin's.

Canadian law...

[wbr1]

...only slightly more obviously for sale than American law.

Re:Canadian law...

[Anonymous Coward]

...only slightly LESS obviously for sale than American law.

FTFY

Canadian Music industry wants...

[the_fat_kid]

I want a pony.
doesn't mean it will happen.

Re:Canadian Music industry wants...

[alexo]

I want a pony.
doesn't mean it will happen.

You are not the best friend of a dictator (read, a Canadian prime minister in a majority government).

Constitution?

[NoKaOi]

Does the Canadian constitution guarantee due process like the US's does? If so, does Canada ignore the constitution as readily as the US does? That said, this isn't really news, is it? They've been trying in the US, trying in the EU, etc, so of course they're gonna try in Canada. The news will be how well they succeed.

Re:Constitution?

[Mashiki]

Our charter? Yeah it does. Actually a significant portion of the charter covers prosecution and protection from the law, of law, and other such sundry things. This will get no where because it has no basis in canadian law, fair dealing takes care of it. And that they've already agreed to the levy, means that they already get money. In turn the courts will toss this right out and slap them with yet another fine.

Re:Constitution?

[Beardo the Bearded]

It guarantees privacy among other things. Having your ISP record everything you do without a warrant is simply not constitutional and wouldn't get past the SCC.

The other problem, and this is where they'll fuck it up, is that the loser pays court costs. It's not like in the US where the threat of a lawsuit means you're out tens of thousands to defend against the frivolous. If they were to try and sue someone, that person could easily have the "evidence" suppressed because the search isn't lawful.

Canadian case law would also make it more likely to be thrown out if you were using encryption, since you're locking stuff up so people don't take it.

Bear in mind all I know about law is my lawyer's phone number.

Re:Constitution?

[Anonymous Coward]

It KINDA does. Read section 1 as a lawyer and section 33. Then decide if it means something.

Also first pick of virgin daughters

[19thNervousBreakdown]

Anyone found to have downloaded, listened to, performed (including whistling, humming, and spoken-word), mentioned, or remembered, whether intentionally, unintentionally, or involuntarily, any music that cannot be proven to not be covered by copyright or potentially covered by copyright in the future, or anyone in possession of any digital copies of music without a DRM spinal shunt, will be required to send their virgin daughters upon reaching age 16 for inspection to:

Royal Canadian Music Industry Headquarters
Mount Doom, Canada

Any daughters found to be desirable will be held until no longer useful. If your daughter is held, you will be responsible for a $4,000 monthly sustenance fee until such time as she is released. Anyone not in compliance with the above policies will be sued unto death or capitulation.

So whats new?

[Master Moose]

The recording industry makes unreasonable demands. . Cue 500 angry comments on Slashdot and other similar sites

Rinse, Repeat.

Is this the recording indusries plan? To beat the public and legistlators into submission with their continued and relentless demands?

To spam each country with such requests in the hope that one will be foolish enough to fall for it? I never knew that big Media emerged from Nigeria

Re:So whats new?

[Baloroth]

Who do you think gave Nigeria the idea in the first place?

Is that all?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why not just go for execution with no trail for suspicion of copyright infringement while their at it?

Re:Is that all?

[jamstar7]

They're working on that. Give it a couple more elections.

Re:Is that all?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why not just go for execution with no trail for suspicion of copyright infringement while their at it?

First the law has to be changed so that they inherit the estate of the executed tax free with any and all liens null and void.

Re:Is that all?

[freman]

Hell, even the most demanding brats have written less demanding letters to santa than these guys have written to government.

I guess it's a case of "If we ask for everything in the world, perhaps they'll give is the least scary sounding thing so we'll go away for a while" - whatever happened to not negotiating with terrorists...

Ipod Tax

[Master Moose]

Isn't that the premium you pay for anything with an apple logo on it?

Re:Ipod Tax

[roc97007]

Yes. I think they're talking about an *additional* ipod tax.

Re:Ipod Tax

[Master Moose]

..and here I was thinkign that having to deal with iTunes was taxing enough

Ban speaking, while you're at it!

[Anonymous Coward]

That's phenomenal. Jesus, I can't believe Canada even allows iTunes, walkmans, megaphones... ANYTHING... in the country.

*shakes head in disbelief*

Now we'll be beefing up the Northern Border in defense of all the music fans. Yikes.

The sheer greed of these men know no bounds.

[argee]

Apparently, draft dodgers is not the only thing we exported across our Northern Border.
We have apparently also exported limitless greed, avarice, and thirst for power.
Oh, add corruption, corporatism and entitlement to the list!

Did I forget anything?

Re:The sheer greed of these men know no bounds.

[Mordok-DestroyerOfWo]

I'd say it was less of an export and more of a trade. After all, we got the musical stylings of William Shatner, Celine Dion, Jusin Bieber, Nickelback, and Rush. If I were Canada I wouldn't want any of them in my public domain either.

Re:The sheer greed of these men know no bounds.

[Capt.DrumkenBum]

Shatner's latest album is musical genius!
As it happens I kind of like Rush.
The rest of them should be shot out of cannons, directly at a very large brick wall.

Re:The sheer greed of these men know no bounds.

[Ihmhi]

the musical stylings of William Shatner, Celine Dion, Jusin Bieber, Nickelback,

Ah, so that's what the DHS meant when they were warning us about terrorist crossing over the Canadian border.

Re:The sheer greed of these men know no bounds.

[UnknownSoldier]

Uhm, yeah, like Reginald Aubrey Fessenden or Alexander Graham Bell, etc. eh?

* Who first used the word and the method of continuous waves?
* Who was first to transmit voice over radio?
* Who devised a detector for continuous waves?
* Who first used the method, and the word heterodyne?
* Who was first to send two-way wireless telegraphy messages across the Atlantic ocean?
* Who was first to send wireless telephony (voice) across the Atlantic Ocean?
* Who made the world's first wireless broadcast (voice and music)?

http://www.ieee.ca/millennium/radio/radio_radioscientist.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Graham_Bell

Re:The sheer greed of these men know no bounds.

[gmhowell]

Celine Dion? And that bitch Anne Murray too? Blame Canada indeed...

Re:The sheer greed of these men know no bounds.

[Anonymous Coward]

To be honest, I prefer Shatner's rendition of 'lucy in the sky with diamonds' over the original.

Re:The sheer greed of these men know no bounds.

[dryeo]

Crazy Christians. The current government is the first I remember (back 40 yrs) or have heard of that made a point of bringing religion into it. I don't think religion has ever been brought up in Canadian politics until the current bunch of Hippocrates in the form of the Reform party appeared on the scene.

Re:The sheer greed of these men know no bounds.

[c]

> After all, we got the musical stylings of William Shatner,
> Celine Dion, Jusin Bieber, Nickelback, and Rush.

Unfortunately, we mostly get the same television and radio up here. It's like giving your next door neighbour a dog you don't like only to have it bark constantly every night...

Re:The sheer greed of these men know no bounds.

[Anonymous Coward]

Whoa whoa whoa! You must have had Xanadu playing in the background while typing that and accidentally included Rush in the list. It's an honest mistake, no worries. Just be more careful next time as some people may think you are serious.

Well, see the problem is

[Shivetya]

You cannot buy a politician, other people can and they do.

So they will get your pony as well.

An outlandish sense of entitlement.

[lexsird]

The music and movie industry has an outlandish sense of entitlement that I think need jammed straight up their tailpipes. I had this argument today with a friend and I told him both of these industries are failing because their time has passed, the digital age has not only toppled their tight fisted distribution systems, but it's open the doors for the masses to be creative. Hence their days, like the stage coach before cars and highways, has passed.

Neither of these archaic industries are worth sacrificing the freedoms of the Internet for. I guess we will have to put them against the wall when the times comes as well.

Re:An outlandish sense of entitlement.

[Anonymous Coward]

Indeed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9b_Uxfb8Qmk

Re:An outlandish sense of entitlement.

[Anonymous Coward]

The music and movie industry has an outlandish sense of entitlement

The music and movie distribution industry has an outlandish sense of entitlement

The distributors want us to conflate distribution and creation to ride on the kudo's the creators get. Don't let them do that.

Save Music!

[jduhls]

Let the music INDUSTRY die.

Unlikely to happen, Really bad timing

[volts]

We just had a major shit-storm in Canada over a government bill (C-30) that would allow the police the right to identifying information without a warrant. The bill has been hustled off to committee for amendment as a result of public outrage. Government politician must be rolling their eyes at the timing of CIMA's demands.

Re:Unlikely to happen, Really bad timing

[Maow]

We just had a major shit-storm in Canada over a government bill (C-30) that would allow the police the right to identifying information without a warrant.

Far worse than that. It allows anyone designated by the minister to this information.

As I posted above, and in light of robo-calls, In & Out scandel, Chuck Cadman bribery offer, etc. ad nauseam, C-30 is to allow Conservative hacks to dig dirt on opposition candidates, to be release during next campaign, ensuring no more free & fair elections and a permanent Conservative majority.

If you thought the attack ads on Ignatief were bad last election (and 2 years preceding it), prepare for it to become permanent.

Re:Unlikely to happen, Really bad timing

[DarthVain]

Yeah this is really stupid of them. I hope it really gets escalated by public opinion and outrage. Then have the media do a discourse on what is fair copyright. Maybe re-evaluate if having copyright for 150 years is in the best interests of Canadians, or if it even makes sense to begin with. With the timing of this, they may have just made a huge error in judgement.

"copyright owners"

[RichMan]

Somehow I don't think writing a blog entry 5 years ago will qualify me as a "copyright owner" able to fire undocumented takedown notices and request unlimited statutory damages. "copyright owner" as used here means very specific media distributors. It does not mean real creators.

Re:"copyright owners"

[SuricouRaven]

It does if you can afford to hire a skilled lawyer specialised in copyright law and pay any court fees.

Re:"copyright owners"

[Anonymous Coward]

Canada has been a party to the Berne Convention since 1928. (the US didn't sign until 1989)

From the treaty:

  "(1) The expression “literary and artistic works” shall include every production in the literary, scientific and artistic domain, whatever may be the mode or form of its expression, such as books, pamphlets and other writings; lectures, addresses, sermons and other works of the same nature; dramatic or dramatico-musical works; choreographic works and entertainments in dumb show; musical compositions with or without words; cinematographic works to which are assimilated works expressed by a process analogous to cinematography; works of drawing, painting, architecture, sculpture, engraving and lithography; photographic works to which are assimilated works expressed by a process analogous to photography; works of applied art; illustrations, maps, plans, sketches and three-dimensional works relative to geography, topography, architecture or science.

(2) It shall, however, be a matter for legislation in the countries of the Union to prescribe that works in general or any specified categories of works shall not be protected unless they have been fixed in some material form."

http://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/ip/berne/trtdocs_wo001.html#P82_10336

Yes. You are a copyright owner.

I foresee a time...

[roc97007]

...When the component of the conventional music industry that makes money from penalties and lawsuits exceeds the component of the conventional music industry that makes music. Eventually, they will only exist as an IP troll.

And only little girls will ride horses, man will walk on the moon, oh wait. That's already happened. And so has this, apparently.

sad but true

[snemiro]

Well ...these "intermediate" guys are close to extinction...they got as much as they could from artists, musicians, movies.....and now the consumer downloads the music or movie almost from the source. No more need of packaging, logistics, marketing, etc....(and also, they always " triple priced " everything between their own companies to wash some $, of course) So now they are begging for some change, because "the people is downloading music or movies". The real problem is when people in the Govt is "tempted", for example, with trips to Whistler or Mt Tremblant for all the family, in a fancy shmancy place, with a fireplace and 2 snowmobiles parked in the garage, free access to private hockey booth (10k/year) to watch a couple of matches, or any pseudo bribery method. ...On the other hand, teachers are on strike (BC) and the public health care system is starting to collapse.... Check how "fair" they play with the people who's feeding them! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_accounting Canada....I still have hope on us.

Of course not.

[Anonymous Coward]

The tax is to compensate copyright holders for all the pirates that got away with it. It does not implicitly legitimize said piracy, nor does it justify any reduction of penalties for piracy nor any reduction in tax dollars invested in the enforcement of anti-piracy laws nor any reduction in the extreme invasiveness needed to enforce said laws nor any re-institution of the due processes that are being bypassed in the name of said enforcement. Also, you have to pay the tax even if you aren't copying anything, because the harm thieves cause should be spread out among consumers rather than absorbed by the people from whom they steal.

You didn't expect a reasonable trade or anything did you?

Re:Of course not.

[DarwinSurvivor]

For those that are confused it's sort of like taxing bathing suits to compensate beach owners for people sneaking onto their beaches without paying admission, except that the money actually goes to the guy that made the "beach ahead" sign. Don't worry, it doesn't make much sense to us Canadians either.

Re:Of course not.

[green1]

Except that currently the "tax" (it's actually a levy, not a tax) DOES allow us to download music for personal use LEGALLY. (This has been upheld in court)

Now the copyright industry wants to change this, they want to make it illegal, they also want it to be easy to prosecute with a minimum of due process, and all without giving up the cash cow that is the blank media levy.

If this passes and goes to court, I'm fairly certain it would be deemed unconstitutional. The only way they can have the levy is because it is to compensate for legal copying. If the copying is illegal it would presume that every citizen is guilty of a crime, and the legal system just doesn't work that way. (as much as the government tries to make it so)

What I'd like to see...

[roc97007]

...is a regularly updated list of the music companies behind the worst of this legislation, prioritized by level of involvement or heinousness of the action, and the artists they represent. Then we can make a knowledgeable decision as consumers, whom to spend our money on. One could say "sucks to be those artists", but they don't get but a tiny fraction of music sales in a traditional contract anyway, and maybe the move will encourage more artists to go independent.

Web Browser Tax For Web Developers

[Ashenkase]

plus a new iPod tax

As a web developer here in Canada I am demanding a browser tax for every Canadian that views my websites via a browser. I am losing gajjillions of dollars every year because Canadians are "View Sourcing" my HTML/CSS/JS and copying it wholesale to make their own websites.

Every Canadian must pay a tax for each browser they use to me because I am too stupid to learn how to create other streams of revenue in this new digital world. I will instead sit on my pony in Hollywood and/or Hogtown and demand that my life of entitlement persist until the end of time.

Re:Web Browser Tax For Web Developers

[Anonymous Coward]

I admit that I accidentally read your comment and I appear to be using a web browser/underlying technology to post a reply. So...can I pay you in Canadian Tire money or would a Tim Horton's gift card be better?

Re:Web Browser Tax For Web Developers

[Ashenkase]

I accept the following payment types:

• Canadian Tire Money (1c bills only)
• Timmies Gift Card
• Six packs of 50
• Back Bacon
• Touques
• Snow Tires

What's next

[Shagg]

Pretty soon they'll just come right out and tell the government "Give us all your money and don't ask any questions".

Oh wait... they just did.

"without court oversight as well as takedowns with no due process and unlimited statutory damages"

Everything we need!

[Anonymous Coward]

It is seeking increased liability for social networking sites, search engines, blogging platforms, video sites, and many other websites featuring third party contributions, plus a new iPod tax, and an extension in the term of copyright. Last week, it went further, demanding a requirement for Internet providers to disclose customer name and address information to copyright owners without court oversight as well as takedowns with no due process and unlimited statutory damages.

Sure, it SOUNDS good, but what's the catch?

futile

[shentino]

You'll never completely stop copyright infringement.

I think rather this is a tactic to use liability as a weapon against the competition.

Find a website that hurts your business, go snooping for copyright infringing users, use liability to get the site shut down.

Reminds me of an old saying

[kurt555gs]

" People in Hell want ice water ".

Canuckistanis

[swschrad]

your iThingie will play English in the left earpiece, and Quebec French in the right earpiece, or you will be jailed.

The war on piracy

[SmallFurryCreature]

I predict it will have the same resounding success as the war on drugs, hunger, terror and of course REAL piracy. If after hundreds of years, we still can't get rid of real pirates when men in little boats are faced with gunships and destroyers... what the fuck hell chance does the music industry stand?

How long has to war on drugs lasted now? And the price of drugs is lower then ever, the supply richer and more varied then ever and the quality sky high. And this is a physical good that has to be moved around.

The internet and digital media ignore border controls, are near impossible to inspect and where as the means for transporting drugs haven't really changed, the speed for distribiting digital content will sky rocket, the costs will continue to plummet and the availability to the world population will explode. If the same happened to drugs runners drugs runner would be hauling cargo's in the thousands of tons at light speed to any point on the planet in the same instance.

And you want to stop this?

Good fucking luck. Copyright law doesn't need reform because it is immoral. It needs reform because the world has changed. These people are trying to implement laws to curb horses in the streets in the age of the transporter.

Re:The war on piracy

[snemiro]

I think the guys at the gov already know that ...but they HAVE to spent as much as they can...and complain about the lack of funds...."well...our budget for 200M wasn't approved, so we had to fight against crime with this baseball bate and a helmet...so don't expect too much from us...."... Also, the problem is the drug cartels / dealers make so much money, they can buy all the enforcement and judges they want... The "legal" winners in this are the providers of weapons, ammo and gear....they love this "pseudo war state".... every "fight against the drugs", they cash some $. So, I would like to introduce a Bill to force govt forces to buy ammo and gear ONLY from govt factories, so the money is not washed..I mean, spent on private corporations. Also, all weapons and bullets in private hands must be confiscated and destroyed, because they could be used for crime or robbery. The law enforcer could seize and arrest any weapon holder without a warrant (special cases, of course). And if you sell bullets on line using a .com web site, that web site will be shut down with a nice banner from the FBI and DHS. Maybe you could still have access using the IP instead. Oh..and every voip and skype conversation must be recorded at the ISP for at least 4 years. Just in case. Of course, the "cost" of this will be paid by the user....without any tax relief...we are in a deep economic crisis now!...so, keep working 50hs/week, no raise, less benefits....remember? we are in deep economic recession...so...I will go to play golf with my friends just for 6 hours....I finish my job here. bye.

Re:The war on piracy

[Jason Levine]

That gives me an idea. Someone "leak" to the music industry that massive piracy is happening off the coast of Somolia and that they should send wave after wave of lawyers to stop it. If the pirates (of the ship kind) are somehow stopped, hooray! If the music industry exhausts their lawyer supply... Double hooray!

Anyone else miss the Progressive Conservatives?

[seyyah]

And not just because their name was both an oxymoron, and yet somehow clever?

Seriously, the PCs and the Liberals were harmless, exactly as the Conservatives are not.

Re:Anyone else miss the Progressive Conservatives?

[dryeo]

You're forgetting Mulroney and his safety box full of $1000 bills.

Re:Anyone else miss the Progressive Conservatives?

[green1]

Not forgetting, but that was still a lot less damaging to the country as a whole than the first few months of the Harper government were, let alone the rest of his reign

When the model can't be adjusted to reality....

[snemiro]

...then we adjust the reality to the model through "the law".

and they fraudulently stole power

[Anonymous Coward]

and that internet spy bill i wanred you this was what it really was for ...glad its stuck in committee

SO instead of a kiddy pron bill the warranltess spy bill is all about suing kids....
YUP thinking of children all right....
get a warrant you cocksucker lazy greedy bastards.

Hmm

[crossmr]

I was planning on taking dual citizenship here in Korea, I may just actually go ahead and renounce my Canadian citizenship instead.
Canadians need to wake up. Harper is screwing us non-stop and Canadians don't realize how good his minority government actually was for us.

I want to win the lottery, too

[msobkow]

Apparently the Canadian music industry has never bother reading Canadian law, our Charter of Rights, or paid attention to the past 40+ years of rulings in the courts against their abusive and egregious demands.

Even the POLICE in this country don't have access to subscriber information without a warrant, and a bunch of media moguls with a track record of not doing a proper investigation before pulling out the sue-bat think the Canadian people are going to give it to THEM?

Weren't they paying attention to what happened to Toews when he tried to grant the POLICE similar powers?

But you gotta give the ankle-biters credit: they're as persistent as a chihuahua barking at the feet of the Canadian people and the Charter of Rights, and about as likely to intimidate us into submission.

Here's a few key points for you morons:

1. We have the right to listen to media before we buy it. Stores are required to have headphone kiosks for us to do so. That doesn't mean they like us browsing around the store and then going online to buy. So cut the crap and accept that downloading torrents and streaming media are how we preview nowadays. If we like it, we'll buy it; if we don't, we won't. And your sales numbers show we're still buying a LOT despite the difficulty of finding GOOD music amongst the thousands of CDs that come out every year.

2. When you signed up for the levies on blank CDs, you effectively gave your approval to people making backups of their media. We'd been granted that permission time and again over the years, but you sealed your own fate when you signed off on that one.

3. A media player is not a copy of anything. It's a player. You know, like those things you used to shove disks into? You do NOT get to charge me time and again for the media for each and every single device I choose to play my media on. Fuck off.

Perfectly reasonable...

[Jason Levine]

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me provided the trade-off is that the music execs have to publicly disclose their names, bank account information, Social Security numbers (well, Canada's equivalent if they have one), passwords to all online services (yes, including banking), complete medical histories, Internet browsing history, etc. What? That's private information which should only be revealed to police after they've obtained a court order? Well, the same holds true for subscriber information for people accused of copyright infringement. Let me emphasis that a bit more. The same holds true for subscriber information for people ACCUSED of copyright infringement. Once they've presented enough evidence to a judge, they can get the records unlocked, but not before.

The solution is obvious!

[mikeiver1]

These companies are becoming more and more out of control of them selves. How about the internet providers simply black list them off of the DNS servers. I mean all servers! They lay claim to any and all content regardless of ownership. If we hinder their ability to rape the customers and the ISPs and force them into the conventional brick and mortar stores only they will very quickly realize that the power is not in their hands but that of the consumer the pipe provider to said consumer..

Solution: Stop buying ALL music

[kheldan]

Stop feeding the trolls. Period. Don't buy any more music. Listen to the radio, or borrow from friends. Buy used music. Trade music with friends. Don't buy any new music, for at least 10 years. The music industry will literally suck your genitals to get you to buy anything from them after that.

If you don't vote with your money in a capitalist world, you're wasting your time complaining.

Re:Solution: Stop buying ALL music

[Anonymous Coward]

Or buy directly from the artists. bandcamp.com is a great site.
alternatively, support indy labels (especially true if you like more niche electronic music, not club bangers)
but yes, stop buying from the big 5 (is it still the big 5 or has more consolidation occurred?)

Re:Solution: Stop buying ALL music

[Skapare]

Isn't this what a boycott is? I'm already doing that, now, south of the border. And if anyone you encounter whines about "then I'd have to be illegal", point them at Magnatune.com. And there are new new indie artists giving away their own stuff. I do think we can make a Creative Commons music arena.

Crazy all right.

[argee]

Yes, they worship a god that tortures those that displease him.

Two rods for canada: softwood lumber

[Anonymous Coward]

Now, having read those two words, please tell me again about how "Shortening copyright to 10 years will run afoul of various international treaties" is a problem you need bother with?

surprise, surprise....

[Anonymous Coward]

... the recording industry demands happen to be exactly the same changes in law that Vic Toews introduced under the guise of protecting us all from the pedophiles... funny how that all works, eh?

It makes sense.

[Mydnight]

No, hear me out... When negotiating, it makes sense to demand the moon in your first round. If you get it, great, if you don't, you can scrap the unrealistic clauses and be seen as attempting to be reasonable. I don't agree with it (I think this copyright bill is complete BS), but I suspect that's what's happening here.

If first you cant succeed, than work around

[lsatenstein]

With the wikapaedia and google display that internet censoring is a no-no, what the industry is now trying to do is surround the USA with countries that it has convinced to do said censoring. Then the USA will have to follow to be in accordance.

Dont let the music industry dictate that the ISPs must do censoring, or that they can do a takedown, without a federal judge permit. The takedown must have the same rules as a search warrant, and no less.

OT: Your sig...

[robsku]

You sir have one of my favorite quotes, even if from a fictional character, on your sig... props for that. I have it on bottom of my blogs right sidebar menu :)