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LulzSec Leader Sabu Unmasked, Arrested and Caught Collaborating
Velcroman1 writes "Law enforcement agents on two continents swooped in on top members of the infamous computer hacking group LulzSec early this morning, and acting largely on evidence gathered by the organization's brazen leader — who sources say has been secretly working for the government for months — arrested three and charged two more with conspiracy. Charges against four of the five were based on a conspiracy case filed in New York federal court, FoxNews.com has exclusively learned. An indictment charging the suspects, who include two men from Great Britain, two from Ireland and an American in Chicago is expected to be unsealed Tuesday morning in the Southern District of New York. 'This is devastating to the organization,' said an FBI official involved with the investigation. 'We're chopping off the head of LulzSec.'"
...For the lulz
mole mole mole mole! (read it like Austin Powers)
Seriously... they scored the head of the organization as a mole? Either blatant luck, or someone knew what they were doing.
Or option C, said head has little scruples.
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
Only 6 months too late to prevent the Lulzpocalipse.
Only people on the dole and school kids have time to do this shit, the rest of us have to earn an honest living.
Also I suspect he'll remain unemployed for a long time now whether he goes to jail or not. No sane employer will want him within a mile of their systems. There are plenty enough white hat hackers who can go on the payroll first.
This is why any kind of Hacking intent should never be combined with monetary interests. It should be left alone as a Hobby. Getting involved in Politics is dangerous, especially if you are doing something illegal. And this might as well be a set up.
They're chopping off the head of an organization that's hasn't operated as a discrete entity for around 9 months?
Or have I missed something? Has Lulzsec operated as Lulzsec (and not part of the overarching Anonymous movement) recently?
WAIT! It's a story from Fox News. Wait until a more reputable news source reports the details. All every other reputable source is saying is that some dude got arrested and the feds think he's part of lulzsec. The rest is probably exaggeration if not complete fabrication and speculation on the part of that news organization. Do not assume anything in the article is true.
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
I pretty much knew that that was the case. But I am surprised that the US government is admitting it in national news. Talk about brazen arrogance of power...
I think you're getting LulzSec mixed up with Anonymous. Although there's some crossover between the two, they're generally regarded as separate entities.
Charges against four of the five were based on a conspiracy case filed in New York federal court
Hey, that's a double standard!
... we all know people with money and power are happy people with good feelings who'd never do that...
Whenever you have reason to think there are conspiracies within government, why you're paranoid and that's absurd, no I won't look at your evidence because that just can't be so, *plugs ears* nana nana nana I can't hear you
But when government says they found a conspiracy among private individuals, why that's just law enforcement.
We can queue up the "If you strike me down..." quote anytime now.
Seeing as Anonymous is simply the name given to anyone who posts on 4chan, it doesn't really identify anyone. Indeed, Lulzsec recruits skiddies on /b/, and the idea of mass-DDOS was made famous by *chan style invasions, but other than that there is no correlation.
This should be interesting to follow. They may have cut off the head of LulzSec but is this going to be like a hydra?
Certainly there are already other "LulzSec wannabes" out-there following in Sabu's wake.
I have split feelings about this. Lulzsec didn't do anything to directly harm my interests- although, theoretically they could have at any time- yet having rogue groups like LS was a threat to all people in one way or another. On the other hand- a world with no LulzSec would be a threat to us too. When governments can quickly lock down groups like this- government has too much power.
It is probably just and right that Sabu go to jail- but it's also good they couldn't catch him too quickly... if you understand what I mean.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
Enjoy your stay at one of America's fine, overseas secret prisons.
A pound-me-in-the-ass prison, I hope.
If it's the same Jeremy Hammond, he's a known item in Chicago for some time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Hammond
The talk page is interesting as well.
this guys info was outed by an internet detective not an FBI agent
Entrapment 2012: The Hack Trap
with exclusive inside footage never before seen using computers with excessively oversized fonts!
I pretty much knew that that was the case. But I am surprised that the US government is admitting it in national news. Talk about brazen arrogance of power...
Arrogance of power, what the heck are you talking about?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I find it endlessly hilarious that you're posting as an Anonymous Coward.
I pretty much knew that that was the case. But I am surprised that the US government is admitting it in national news. Talk about brazen arrogance of power...
What might actually get slightly interesting is the case of any of the lulzsec victims during the period when the feds had some degree of control... I remember there being a bunch of litigation surrounding victims of various mob groups that the FBI had significantly infiltrated/compromised; but allowed to continue 'business as usual' for a period of time in order to gather evidence or similar. The relatives of those killed were less than pleased to learn that the FBI had sacrificed them for the case. It would be interesting to see if any of the entities knocked over by lulzsec feel like having a swing at the feds for damages...
It will also be interesting to see if the case against lulzsec itself is actually as strong as claimed, or if it quietly drags on for several years and then dissolves into a sticky mess of plea-bargains for relatively minor offenses; but that won't be knowable for a good while to come.
'This is devastating to the organization,' said an FBI official involved with the investigation. 'We're chopping off the head of LulzSec.'
Once again, showing that the morons in power don't understand how the internet works.
If you really want to call this guy a head, call him a head of a hydra.
Chop off this so called head, and two more grow in it's place.
What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
Why?
Seriously, why?
I could care less. What major harm has this organization did that has affected me personally. Sure, they may have caused some political embarrassment and maybe some minor financial loss. Didn't affect me. And how much law enforcement money and people went into the operation to catch them? Probably lots.
All the white crime acts performed by the banks that caused our financial downfall and destroyed countless lives still goes mainly unpunished. I don't support hacker groups like this, but when the government doesn't go after the real criminals then I will start rooting for the hackers.
Screw you FBI! You're just a tool for the man.
I wonder if they'll have as much success as Hercules.
Sadly, it really comes down to who you work for rather then what you are doing. If lulzsec was doing illegal work for politicians or government they would be fine. For that matter if they were doing it for profit to help a company that contracted them they would probably just get a slap on the wrist since many seem to feel that activism is less ethical then profit.. or more accurately, the more money you make the more acceptable it is.
Apart from the question who has really been caught, it is quite amazing how much effort, money and time some governments invest to catch a bunch of people who find vulnerabilities in their badly secured networks and leak questionable or private information.
I wish they would focus as much on people who are responsible for war crimes, abuses of civil rights and the financial crisis. But these hackers probably lack the resources to defend themselves making them an easier target for government agencies to brag about the success against hackers.
The original link to the Fox News website is a little thin on details, but there's a bit more flesh here
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/03/06/exclusive-inside-lulzsec-mastermind-turns-on-his-minions/?intcmp=related
I have to wonder if more arrests will be coming soon. A mole is only as good as long as the group the mole is infiltrating doesn't know the mole is a mole. While Lulzsec is generally thought of as distinct from Anonymous, there is overlap and this guy might have passed information about that overlap.
Because Americans are both passionate (a good and bad thing) and pretty bloodthirsty when it comes to punishment. Many people get a thrill out of the idea of someone getting tortured and/or raped, but we have a nice social 'out' that if the person is a 'bad guy' then it is ethically OK and there is nothing wrong with the person salivating at the idea. The whole 'it is not evil if your victim is evil!' is very convient.
One of his last tweet before the arrest:
"They read your mails. Listen to your calls. Break into your wireless routers+sniff your traffic. GPS cars. I'm not talking about terrorists." https://twitter.com/#!/anonymouSabu/status/176683665919721472
I guess he really knew what he was talking about.
I *still* get spam from real accounts of my friends. I believe the spammers got ahold of the password lists from all of this and have been using it to spam from legitimate accounts by actually logging into them?
Now that the world is safe from LulzSec, how about some cuffs for the real criminals and their official enablers who have free reign still to this day.
Banksters and officials who enabled them
Fast and Furious
Oath breakers of the US Constitution
Ought to be a full time job right there, no time to screw with medical cannabis, milk farmers, or guitar manufacturer's.,
if only i had mod points for you sir
Way to mix up two completely different meanings of the word "conspiracy",
You're making the assumption their activities have been interrupted.... hell this may just piss them off and increase their aggressiveness.
Like kicking a beehive.
Really? You would mod up someone who has absolutely no proof, has formed a jaded opinion off of various reports, nitpicking what they need to form their opinion, and then post it on slashdot on a news report that may kinda sorta support their crazy ass conspiracy?
Hmm.... I think I just came up with the internet conspiracy formula.... patent pending!!!
This is why any kind of Hacking intent should never be combined with monetary interests.
That is true, but since the source is Fox News (Rupert Mudoch), as another poster pointed out we need to take this with a huge dose of salt.
If, however, this should turn out to be true, I find it disturbing on so many levels. Is anyone reminded of 1984 at all? The government running an underground resistence organization, to attract and arrest "revolutionaries." I'm not a fan of lulzsec at all, but this story, if at all true, is one of the more overtly Orwellian things I've seen, and living in an age of Orwellian behavior, with western democracies perched on the precipice of right-wing fascism, the middle east largely given over to their brand of sectarian fascism, and authoritarianism on the rise in Russia, China, and elsewhere, that is saying a lot.
What is even more telling, is how blase people are about the idea of a countercultural "leader" inciting criminality and then handing those he's managed to influence over to the authorities for "processing." Too many of us don't even seem to know enough to be ashamed, or appalled, by this kind of thing, so few in fact, that the GOP mouthpiece is essentially bragging about using such methods to take down a group they've found so easy to demonize. A process made easier no doubt, if the story is true, by the very behavior their mole incited and coordinated in the first place. Agent provocateur on steriods.
If this turns out to be at all true, and if we were a healthy democracy, the "leader" and his handlers would be facing serious jailtime, while those incited into this behavior would see a blackmark on their record and probation, hopefully scared straight. But those days died out sometime in the early naughties, and things have only gone downhill from there.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Really? You would mod up someone who has absolutely no proof, has formed a jaded opinion off of various reports, nitpicking what they need to form their opinion, and then post it on slashdot on a news report that may kinda sorta support their crazy ass conspiracy? Hmm.... I think I just came up with the internet conspiracy formula.... patent pending!!!
some people just won't believe what's happening until the storm troopers kick down their door making it as undeniably obvious as they seem to want.
you, sir, are one of those.
if only i had mod points for you sir
"And if that overhead whooshing sound doesn't stop, I will have to terminate this press conference."
Really? You would mod up someone who has absolutely no proof, has formed a jaded opinion off of various reports, nitpicking what they need to form their opinion, and then post it on slashdot on a news report that may kinda sorta support their crazy ass conspiracy? Hmm.... I think I just came up with the internet conspiracy formula.... patent pending!!!
So, do you disagree that the dynamic he illustrates exists?
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
Criminal activity is criminal activity whether you dress it up as some boo hoo sob story of some poor ickle struggling hacker trying to improve his sk177s and get noticed or not.
"That benefit is usually pretty basic too: Food, shelter, clothing, sex, etc"
Oh puh-lease! If you seriously think the sort of people sitting in a basement breaking into some companies webserver are short of food or shelter then your delusional. People who are really short of lifes basics have more important things to do than sit in front of a PC. As for sex - well , perhaps in the fantasy land in your head or some hollywood movies (and we know how realistic they are) you can get laid for a hack , but in the real world sonny women are impressed by other sorts of things - maturity being one of them. If you're gay however then who knows, I'm sure there are other gay hackers you could meet.
Please sir, pray tell...how blatantly obvious do the powers that be have to make it to you that they are hardcore criminals before you will remove your head from the sand?
I am in no way defending LulzSec or anyone who commits crime for any reason. But if you honestly haven't learned yet that crime for corporate profit or expansion of government power is completely ignored while anyone who challenges the status quo is given life in Federal PMITA prison, you are naive and blissfully childish, and I only wish I could enjoy your blasé sense of morality.
Sadly, it really comes down to who you work for rather then what you are doing. If lulzsec was doing illegal work for politicians or government they would be fine. For that matter if they were doing it for profit to help a company that contracted them they would probably just get a slap on the wrist since many seem to feel that activism is less ethical then profit.. or more accurately, the more money you make the more acceptable it is.
I hate to break it to you, because you seem to be really enjoying wallowing in your cynicism, but if it were illegal, they'd be punished regardless of the circumstances. Now is it legal for the United States to conduct Cyber Warfare against another country? I am not sure.
Reading comprehension should be the next thing you learn about. They identified and arrested the guy and flipped him. The article even says that - he plead out and he became a confidential informant.
He turned his guys over to the feds in exchange for the lulz. No wait, not for the lulz, but for lesser punishment. As previously stated, anyone simply in it for the lulz is not to be trusted. We should expect them not to be trusted, and they should have expected themselves not to be trusted.
Bubba - "Come to mama."
Conservative, mod down for violating
Wow, you don't wanna be that guy. Think of all the pizza that's going to be sent to his house!
I8-D
What makes a good conspiracy is that it is plausible.
What makes a false statement good, is it plays on insecurities and fears, Fox News knows how to do this.
Ironically Fox News is a company that has made a living off of Tabloid literature.
That being said, there is no proof of this.
depending on which facts you choose to follow, the GP can be very correct. I wouldnt disparage someone for believing crazy ass conspiracies when we can watch bankers and wall street knowingly manipulate a system that causes massive harm, and the firms they work for get very minor punishments, while at the same time the FBI finds it enormously important to destroy a group because they embarrassed SONY.
from cnet.com, an alternate link:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-20072906-17/lulzsec-suspect-arrested%20-in-u.k-reports-say
LulzSec suspect arrested in U.K., reports say
by Don Reisinger June 21, 2011 6:28 AM PDT
A 19-year-old U.K. man has been arrested on suspicion of hacking and online attacks, the U.K.'s Metropolitan Police announced this morning.
Last night's arrest was part of "a pre-planned intelligence-led operation" that also involved cooperation with the FBI, according to the Metropolitan Police. Following the arrest, the man was brought to a London police station where he is currently in custody for questioning.
Sky News reported early on that the teenager is the mastermind behind LulzSec, a prominent hacking group that has wreaked havoc on several companies and government organizations of late. However, the Metropolitan Police's e-Crime Unit stopped short of saying whether the man in custody might be connected to LulzSec.
"The arrest follows an investigation into network intrusions and Distributed Denial of Service (DDoS) attacks against a number of international business and intelligence agencies by what is believed to be the same hacking group," the Metropolitan Police said. "The teenager was arrested on suspicion of Computer Misuse Act, and Fraud Act offences."
For its part, LulzSec seemed bemused by the arrest, with a cheeky post to its Twitter account that it's still in operation.
"Seems the glorious leader of LulzSec got arrested," the group wrote on its Twitter account. "It all over now. Wait, we're all still here! Which poor bastard did they take down?"
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
The most interesting and worrying thing about this story:
My point is figuring out and getting to him, to even flip him, was good work. My "option C" was there just in case the guy is a scumbag and made it easy, so he could rat on the rest for the lulz.
Usually you flip someone at the bottom and worm your way in - this was the reverse of that.
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
the universe is conspiring to keep us stuck to this planet using an insidious technique we call "gravity." we have no proof of this. gravitons are still theoretical. relativity is still theoretical. but it's my opinion that we'll continue to be stuck to this planet for the foreseeable future. because there's a conspiracy. i hear a whoosh
insensitive clod overlords obligatory xkcd car analogy russian reversals whoosh pedant fanbois ftfy in 3...2...1..PROFIT
Can't we cite a more respectable source for chrissakes?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17270822
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/03/06/hector-xavier-monsegur-fbi-lulzsec-arrests_n_1323638.html?ref=uk
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
Anonymous has a core of really skilled leaders - since this guy was flipped by the FBI, I wonder if they "have eyes" on some of Anonymous' more influential / adept members.
/me sips his coffee and ponders a new sig...
Fox News has it's brain washed followers.
CNN has it's brain washed followers.
Truly free and open minded people have the ability to watch both (and admit it), put the various pieces together and come up with their own opinion.
I myself like and hate both Fox and CNN. You on the other hand, if I had to guess, you're in with the CNN followers, but that's just my guess.
I agree, not a victim, then not a problem, mentality is morally wrong.
Can I parse your first sentence out a bit more?
"Because many people in large numbers can be overly emotional, less than rational, under educated and spiteful. "
....... Thus ends my attempt at wit or whatever
We should expect them not to be trusted, and they should have expected themselves not to be trusted.
But they knew I wouldn't trust them - they expected that - so clearly I cannot drink from the cup in front of me.
Disclaimer: Evolution comes with NO WARRANTY, except for the IMPLIED WARRANTY of FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
Finally another self-deluded anarchist is taken down. It's a great day for the entire world.
LulzSec 2.0 FTW!
"The whole 'it is not evil if your victim is evil!' is very convient."
Surprise! Thats how punishment works. Incarcerating or executing a known innocent person for life would be evil, yet its not for murderers. If said crims also get a surprise in the shower while in prison then I sure as hell won't be crying any tears.
Prison is SUPPOSED to be unpleasent. What do you want , a holiday camp like in some "liberal progressive" (read: stupidly naive) european countries like sweden?
It should be no surprise that he who pays the piper calls the tunes.
As long as we have the best government money can buy, we have to accept that they're bought and paid for. They are not corrupt as long as they stay bought.
Don't like it? Don't vote for a politician who is bought. Or buy your own politician.
I seem to recall American politicians telling us how they will implement a cost beneficial health care system which the Europeans are now having difficulty with because....
WE WILL DO IT RIGHT.
If anything American journalists simply parrot Washington DC. I don't care which news agency they are part of, they want to be inside and will report as needed to keep that position.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
You are absolutely right. These members of this actual LulzSec conspiracy have all been spirited away from their homes just before dawn by jackbooted thugs at gunpoint and are even now being tortured prior to execution in the basement dungeons of...oh, no, wait...that's total bollocks isn't it?
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Copyright trolls have to jump in on torrents in order to mine the IP addresses, yet no prosecution of them. Proof enough?
Would you characterize an atheist as one who denies the existence of god outright, or someone who, in the absence of proof, does not allow himself to accept the positive claims of others?
your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
I hate to break it to you, because you seem to be really enjoying wallowing in your cynicism, but if it were illegal, they'd be punished regardless of the circumstances. Now is it legal for the United States to conduct Cyber Warfare against another country? I am not sure.
The only powers of war lies with congress. The constitution tells us so.
So to get around this, don't call it a war. Vietnam started as a "police action". Similar with Iraq.
"Because many people in large numbers can be overly emotional, less than rational, under educated and spiteful. "
Dear oh dear, the standard issue liberal "anyone who doesn't agree with us must be a neanderthal" stance.
Well, I'm educated to degree level, hold a responsible job, don't generally get over emotional, have to be rational for my work and I don't think I'm spiteful. OTOH I have no problem with the death penalty or prisons being pretty unpleasent so where does that leave your cliched ad hominem argument?
If you can't do the time , don't do the crime. Simple. If prisoners don't like prison then good - thats the whole fsking point of them.
Really? You would mod up someone who has absolutely no proof, has formed a jaded opinion off of various reports, nitpicking what they need to form their opinion, and then post it on slashdot on a news report that may kinda sorta support their crazy ass conspiracy?
Yep. Welcome to Slashdot! Around these parts, we call that "a reserved response on a slow Tuesday".
I can see things like bitcoin "challenging the status quo." Could you explain how defacing websites, breaking into systems, and releasing private information challenges the status quo?
your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
... for the lulz
+50 Insightful.
you had me at #!
http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2012/03/06/sabu-lulzsec-betrayed-anonymous-hackers/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=status+message&utm_campaign=naked+security
“Sabu could be making millions of bucks heading the IT security department of a major company,” a law enforcement official said. “But look at him, he’s impoverished, living off public assistance and was forced between turning on his friends and spending a lifetime in jail.
Millions of bucks... IT security department
Millions of bucks
Millions
lol
Note: he didn't say "pound HIM in the ass", he was talking about himself, using "me", the personal pronoun.
... or more accurately, the more money you make the more acceptable it is.
Doesn't matter how poor or rich you are, it's a question of power not money. Having money tends to imply power, but the two aren't truly link, for example: A billionaire can fold to congress which is filled with millionaires. And at the same time, those with power tend to like getting there toys, so they sell off a portion of there power in trade for money.
WTF Slashdot, why do I have to login 50 times to post?
Fox News has it's brain washed followers.
CNN has it's brain washed followers.
Truly free and open minded people have the ability to watch both (and admit it), put the various pieces together and come up with their own opinion.
I myself like and hate both Fox and CNN. You on the other hand, if I had to guess, you're in with the CNN followers, but that's just my guess.
Is this your coming out of the closet and declaring yourself a conservative?
Adrian Lamo must be happy about this...
So does this mean you can't hack without getting caught? Unless you're Chinese state sanctioned hackers?
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
Someone didn't learn enough from the X-Files here. "Trust No One." Esp other Hackers. Sure everyone likes to get together at one Con or another and brag about whatever. But in the end, it's how you're going to be taken down. Not by what you do, but by whom you do it with, or who you bragged about it to.
yes, but according to who I was replying to , your statements would be "absolutely no proof, has formed a jaded opinion off of various reports, nitpicking what they need to form their opinion, and then post it on slashdot on a news report that may kinda sorta support their crazy ass conspiracy" .
Just look at the policies and the laws and you will understand why crime is increasing among smart educated types.
Having skills will not produce a job. The problem is people who decide to go criminal would be better off trying to run a legit business but where are they going to get the money to start a business?
Ultimately unemployed geek types will have to start legit businesses. It's the only way. The illegal route leads to prison and even greater difficulty starting a legit business.
The more difficult it is for smart people to start legit businesses the more criminals and the smarter criminals are produced. If a person cannot ever land a legit job and wont ever be given the money to start a legit business what else can they do?
If they are smart they'll live on food stamps and move to a state with healthcare and figure out a way to make money without breaking the law but if they live in Texas or some backwards Republican town where people are being cut off unemployment I can't really blame them for what they do.
If that means being a criminal then don't get caught.
If you can survive without hurting people then do that. If you can survive without being a criminal then do that. But survive by any and all means. The law either benefits your ability to survive or it doesn't apply to you.
Jeremy Hammond is known to hate the RNC, with the convention coming up I think they wanted to keep away for a while.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Hammond scroll down and watch his DEF CON presentation.
I never said it did.
But if the person in question happened to be working *for* a private corporate interest with an unlimited bank account or a government with unlimited bombs, his actions would have been summarily ignored by any and all relevant authorities. If he had happened to challenge the status quo in the process, it would just bring a harsher punishment.
As I said before, and will say again, I am in no way defending ANYONE who commits crime for ANY reason, but if someone hasn't learned by now that "some animals are more equal than others", they are naive and have their heads in the sand, and really need to start paying attention.
LulzSec was never more than a bunch of script kiddies with more ego than brains. I always figured they would crumble when they saw members being carried off in handcuffs. Betrayed by your leaders? Welcome to the real world, punks.
So this is what it feels like to hear that Robin Hood has been caught by the Sheriff of Nottingham. The really scary/sad part is the suspicion that Robin might have sold out his buddies to save his children.
Bin Laden 2.0
Would you characterize an atheist as one who denies the existence of god outright, or someone who, in the absence of proof, does not allow himself to accept the positive claims of others?
The former is an atheist. The latter is an agnostic. How, exactly, is this relevant though?
"None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
He flipped and turned in his buddies for the lulz.
Seriously, I am staring to think we need to bludgeon people with a copy of 1984 every time they make a stupid statement about something normal being "Orwellian."
This right here? How they do criminal investigations for criminal organizations. They locate someone involved, catch them committing a crime, arrest them, and then try to get them to turn state's evidence. They use that person to attempt to shut down the entire organization.
This is how they run mob cases and all that kind of shit. If you aren't aware of it, your ignorance is the problem. It is not "Orwellian".
Seriously I think some people on Slashdot are anarchists, they don't think the government should be allowed to enforce ANY laws. Of course then something will come up with a company doing something and they go all communist and demand that the government not so much enforce the law and just get extremely punitive on the company. To me that speaks of a very poor understanding of the concepts of justice and fairness.
Hmmm I guess the higher you spy the most prone to incidents you become.
Translate this
I would characterize an atheist as one who claims the latter but practices the former.
If you haven't got the list then you're probably a felon and are too stupid to know it.
Everybody is a criminal but the smart people don't commit crimes which bring long prison sentences or for which they are likely to get caught or which hurt so many people that the authorities will spare no expense and stop at nothing to catch them.
But everybody is a criminal. Everybody has committed a felony. And if you think you haven't them look at the list of thousands of federal crimes and check back.
No reason to feel any sympathy for their behavior. They aren't the good guys. They aren't grey hats or white hats, they are the blackest of the black hat with no conscience. Remember when they release those credit card and personal information on all those people?
Frankly when we ALREADY have a government that has...1.-admitted to taking suspects on 'rendition rides" so they can torture them, 2.-waterboards, 3.-attempted to set up a false flag to take away your second amendment rights with "Fast & Furious" which led to dozens being murdered by guns provided by the US government to terrorists. 4.- Covered up child sex trafficking by a PMC that was trading 9 year old boys as party favors to seal deals and who had done the same trick in Kosovo a decade earlier with 11 year old girls.
Frankly I wouldn't trust the fucking United Snakes government to tell me its raining outside. If their own admitted actions aren't enough for you? Then I'm sorry but you are just too ignorant. Just the things they have admitted to should have caused several officials to be shot for treason if the laws of this country actually meant a damned thing anymore.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Anonymous has a core of really skilled leaders - since this guy was flipped by the FBI, I wonder if they "have eyes" on some of Anonymous' more influential / adept members.
LulzSec was mostly script kiddies hacking from their parents basements. If they had covered their tracks they wouldn't be getting arrested. That being said the government is upping the amount of resources to catch them and is also putting much more skilled and experienced people on the job of catching them so it's a much different story now.
http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2012/03/06/sabu-lulzsec-betrayed-anonymous-hackers/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=status+message&utm_campaign=naked+security
“Sabu could be making millions of bucks heading the IT security department of a major company,” a law enforcement official said. “But look at him, he’s impoverished, living off public assistance and was forced between turning on his friends and spending a lifetime in jail.
Millions of bucks... IT security department
Millions of bucks
Millions
lol
Yeah right. That is disinformation and propaganda. If there were millions of bucks to be made doing that, many people have more skills than him and aren't ever going to make millions of bucks. That FBI guy who said that probably isn't making millions of bucks as FBI agents and law enforcement officers don't make millions of bucks. Someone who doesn't have a clue about how the industry works is talking about something they don't know anything about.
Sabu had some skill, enough skill to run an IT dept but that would only pay $80,000-100,000 and chances are they'd look at his resume and never even give him an interview. It wouldn't matter if he had skill or not since he probably doesn't have name recognition, a strong resume, or social networking to leverage.
He stopped, collaborated, and listened!
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
I'm surprised its taken so long but not surprised if it has happened. If you belong to a group which attacks major institutions to DDOS, vandalise or steal email or other data from them then the law will catch up with you eventually. Either you'll make a mistake which leads investigators to your door or you'll be turned in by one of your buddies.
'Lulzsec hackers' arrested in international swoop
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17270822
thegodmovie.com - watch it
Of course. Profit taking is inherently evil, and any kind of activism, from peaceful demonstrations to outright acts of terrorism, are inherently good as long as it is sticking it to the Man (and profit is not a factor).
Funny how the US is eager to call shooting wars "police actions" (as if a country can engage in police actions uninvited in another sovereign nation) AND to label industrial espionage and pranks "war" whenever they involve computers. Maybe that ties in with things like the war on drugs, war on terrorism, etc. Maybe in the US war means the opposite of what it does to everyone else!
Hahahahaha!
It doesn't matter who you work for. All that matters is which attorneys you hire.
Fox News busted for hacking: "Speak to my attorney"
Random Joe Blow busted for hacking: "I'll never cooperate with the feds!"
Guess which one gets arrested, charged, and actually convicted?
Both are atheists. "Agnostic" was a term coined by a man who admitted that the term "atheist" applied to him but didn't want to be lumped in with other people the term also applied to.
Your mistake is in assuming (suggesting?) that CNN is an equal distance from the center as is Fox News. By any credible metric, such a comparison is laughable. Thanks for playing.
The problem with your comment is that you overlook important details.
Bankers have accountants and lawyers that provide cover for them in terms of actual criminal wrongdoing. That's why the bankers aren't being prosecuted yet, because it's hard to prove criminality rather than incompetence. It's not like people haven't been trying and the AG of NYS is still trying and will probably get them *for something* the same way we got Al Capone *for something* (, in his case, income tax evasion.
LULSEC is just outright breaking the law, no chaser. That's called "mooning the giant" in the business world. The giant is going to notice you and do something about you.
Do well connected companies do blackhat things for large contractors businesses and politicians? We all have the feeling that they do, but there has to be specific allegations and specific cases, not just a general feeling of corruption.
The child sex slavery incidents are usually a reference to Dyncorp, details on Wikipedia and here:
Cari Lynn titled The Whistleblower: Sex Trafficking, Military Contractors And One Woman's Fight For Justice.
In Bosnia, they had immunity from prosecution- itself a ridiculous notion but there it was.
In Afghanistan they were investigated but you have to pin crimes on individuals doing specific acts and this is not so easy.
But to your point, the greater reality seems to be this: not many companies do why Dyncorp and Xe do. When push comes to shove, the government feels it needs these companies to do things. Thus the immunity from prosecution clauses and thus the invigorous investigation (what no hidden cameras and months of undercover work???? ).
Don't like this state of affairs? Then do what I do and stop voting Republican. It was Rumsfeld under Bush who wanted to downsize the military to save costs (and upsize private contracting by a cost equal to , oh, ten times that amount or more) .
No one is starting a competitor to Xe or Dyncorp. For this reason alone, they should not exist- monopoly power on necessary services to the government on the government dime should never be permitted to exist. Government should perform the services that fit anything like that description.
You cry about the end results, but do you vote? Do you express anything like the concerns I expressed to your congresscritter? Once the gun is loaded and trigger is pulled, the bullet IS going to fly to its target. You have to stop the action before it gets to the point of inevitability. Permitting Xe and Dyncorp to exist in the capacity they do was ABSOLUTELY going to lead to just what we see here, along with the lackluster prosecution in the name of "the greater good" .
LULZSEC on the other hand were just a bunch of lawbreaking joyriders shoving their bare asses out their car window as they drove by the chief of police's house.
Just because there's an unsolved armed robbery in a town doesn't mean vandals aren't prosecuted anymore.
How about "chopping off the heads" of the MPAA and RIAA, the real criminals of the Internet?
Nonsense. The jack-booted thugs divisions are a part of the MPAA / RIAA organs, respectively.
I am John Hurt.
Maybe not Lulzsec, but Megaupload's Kim Dotcom was arrested in the conditions you described (helicopters and all) in the first half. As for the second half, look at what happens in Gitmo and other secret CIA prisons. Unless you're one of those people who think waterboarding is not torture.
Yes, one happend in Australia and the other in the States (Cuba technically). But Megaupload was done at the behest of the U.S. government and their industry cronies. Don't think that it couldn't happen here, in the land of the free and home of the brave.
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
It would be interesting to see if any of the entities knocked over by lulzsec feel like having a swing at the feds for damages...
The president would just role over and give them a pass and promise they won't do it again.
One of the very funny things about language is how you can take underlying situations of great complexity and put these labels onto them.
In fact, that's what language in general is. You take situations of great complexity and label them with words. The funny part is the extreme flexibility there is in which words you can use. Not only that, since sentences are just combinations of words, the flexibility of individual terms spills over into the flexibility of sentences.
Take for example the word: " "processing" " (with quotation marks). This term has strong negative connotations, including of an oppressive state, a form of brainwashing ('alteration') and machine-like treatment. So one of the things you can do with language is, when someone you like is arrested you can say "they are taking him away for "processing"". When someone you don't like is arrested you can say "finally the police has made us safe from that bastard". After all, 'made us safe' is another way to refer to the underlying act of arresting. Hence all terms are up for grabs! The double-plus-funny thing is that the particular words chosen by any person say more about the person using them than the situation itself.
And certainly, you are free to put the label 'the police are running the resistance movement' on the situation here. That clearly has connotations to 1984, and pretty terrible ones at that, creating bad feelings about all the nasty parallel-to-1984 entities.
Another possible way to label what happened is that the police made a plea deal with the leader in order to gather evidence against all the other members, and therefore waited with arresting them until they had that evidence.
That is typically the phrasing used in other similar situations. For example, if police arrests the head of a drug smuggling ring and offers him a plea deal if he walks around with a recording device, then few people would use the phrasing that "the police is running the drug smuggling ring" and "the police is inciting drug use" by doing so. Orwellian is another label that would rarely be used in that situation. Not saying that you _cannot use_ those labels, of course. You are completely free to.
Lastly, I disagree about the postulates you make about punishment. In a democracy, it is fully legitimate to enter deals with members of a criminal enterprise that they help expose the rest of the organisation in return for a lower punishment. It is also fully legitimate to wait with busting the ring until you have gathered evidence.
Of course, to avoid even the _appearance_ of 'Orwellian situations', it would be natural for any criminal acts committed _after_ the sting operation has started that are also _incited_ by the member under police control not to be used as a basis in a trial. That still leaves all the situations _before_ the sting operation and those situations where other members of the gang took the initiative.
Of course, this is making life easier for criminals because the person doing the inciting would often have incited the same acts in the first place (for example, the leader of a drug smuggling gang would obviously continue to 'incite' drug smuggling), but that's one of the sacrifices law enforcement and society has to make to keep the legal system whiter than white.
Because Anonymous is NOT anonymous.
They chickened out of their drug cartel outing plan after receiving death threats (i.e. they are not anonymous). Now the Lulzsec leader is caught (i.e. he is not anonymous).
It made people realize just how shit the security at most companies is and that perhaps they shouldn't share their private information with them. It exposes a fair bit of criminality and general corporate and political evil. It gave us an insight into the inner workings of our corrupt law enforcement agencies and an idea of their true level of incompetence.
Above all it gave us hope that individuals can still fight back against the corruption and expose it. Manning is a hero but also an opportunist, Lulzsec proved that if needs be people can take the fight to them.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
* I don't have a problem with the police carrying guns and shooting people so long as they are following a reasonable set of laws regulating their use (that is, in the U.S., the police generally don't shoot people unless they are a violent threat to others; yes, I know that occasionally there are tragic exceptions to that rule like that Haitian guy in NYC a few years back, Amadou Diallo, who got shot reaching for his wallet/identification).
Accountability does matter and make a difference.
* As for people working for corporations, they do get in trouble and possibly face jail time for such actions. If one of Sony's competitor corporations were behind the PSN/SOE attacks, you can be sure Sony would use every power of the law to go after them. Corporations just tend to be careful, and have lawyers to tell them how to do things in such a way that it's really hard to prove they are guilty, that it wasn't a "rogue individual" or "rogue group" within the company. But, that doesn't mean it's considered "Ok" or "legal".
* Politicians? One word: "Watergate" - a number of folks involved with that did go to jail, the President resigned in disgrace (unfortunately, he managed to avoid jail time himself, but his most of his conspirators did not). Again, politicians are just generally more careful about their wrongdoing that LulzSec or Anonymous.
These guys underestimated the resources of the various law enforcement agencies ability to find them and vastly over estimated their own abilities to remain hidden.
We have transitioned to a digital age and a lot of our existing laws were not written for this type of environment. New laws are being formulated, old laws are being modified or held inapplicable but it doesn't happen overnight. One of the most glaring examples is the law against receiving stolen property. If I steal a car and give it to you and you take it knowing I stole it you have broken the law. If I illegaly download data from a computer system and give it to you is that still breaking the law? If it is against the law would a site like Wiki leaks be guilty of accepting stolen property? If I gave a car to someone it would have to be registered and licensed which usually requires some proof of prior ownership or transfer of ownership documentation to happen. Would a site like Wiki leaks need to obtain proof that the information given to them was not stolen by requiring some type of notarized release? I don't know the answer and it seems people are not against criminalizing illegal data theft if they approve of the content and are for criminalizing the act if they have a problem with the content. If it is government data that's good but if someone hacks into a corporate banking system and releases my personal banking information it is bad. You can't have it both ways.
I don't know why I was thinking he was Haitian. Perhaps there was another police shooting victim who was haitian, and my mind merged details about both shootings, don't remember. Anyhow, for the record, he was Guinean, not Haitian.
Atheist means the resolute belief that there is no Creator. I cannot say if there is a Creator or not, nor can any other living human being. This makes me an atheist?
Good-bye
Could you try using 'from' instead of 'off of'?
Morality is great, staying alive is better. You act like this stuff hasnt gone on for the ENTIRETY of human existence. Remove Greed, Power and Malice from the human psyche and we MIGHT be able to begin work on your utopia. Here is a tip: people in power dont like to be challenged, do so at your own peril.
Good-bye
Personally, I just watch the daily show. I probably won't be any better informed, but since it's entertaining I at least get SOMETHING out of the time. Arguably, since the DIS-information in the Daily Show is made deliberately obvious, I do end up somewhat better informed since I am at least not DIS-informed.
Actual information tends to come form various nearly random places on the web.
A computer is the most versatile toy that one could ever imagine. You can make it do practically anything you can imagine. Esp with so much source code available to start from. So why in the hell do people need to mess with "Other Peoples" computers as a hobby. Its IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to have exhausted the opportunities for learning on their own computer. Why oh why is hacking even a hobby? And if you really want to mess with comms, a second computer is dirt cheap. Or you can use a virtual machine. Or talk to your friends computers with their permission.
Your computer is a wonderful engine of discovery; what more could you possibly need?
I like how when lulsec first appeared EVERYONE on slashdot had no doubt it was an FBI operation. No joke, go look at the comment sections yourself ;)
HOW MANY times have they claimed to have beheaded these guys? At least once before this.
Election fraud and the inaccessability of the general population prevent voting from being effective. If you aren't republican or democrat you don't get to talk to Americans in an effective way. Only 5 or so companies own around 90% of all television stations, and newspapers. The voting population simply doesn't get their information from sources outside the established powers.
if you honestly haven't learned yet that crime for corporate profit or expansion of government power is completely ignored while anyone who challenges the status quo is given life in Federal PMITA prison
"Completely ignored", really? I find that this level of hyperbole detracts from one's credibility, and that's a shame because I agree with your underlying concerns. Honest question: are you aware that there have been an increasing number of successful prosecutions for fraud in the financial sector, particularly insider trading? It just doesn't make great news copy, so maybe it's been off your radar. Even the Raj Rajaratnam case, as major as it was, didn't get all that much coverage.
Is every guilty & corrupt person currently at risk of arrest? Of course not. But it is actually a rather difficult process to investigate and prosecute these kinds of crimes. It requires a lot of resources, expertise, time, and taxpayer money. I get the sense that you'd be very troubled to see the expansion of the justice department that would be necessary to obtain a higher rate of successful prosecution.
To be fair, it wasn't remotely the first time we've given weapons to terrorists (or as we call them when they're on our side, "freedom fighters").
See: Afghanistan, large portions of South America, and portions of the Caribbean.
Random Thoughts From A Diseased Mind (Not For Dummies)
According to Wikipedia, some progress has been made in this case, with over a dozen people arrested and charged. I'll grant that they have not been convicted, but most of them have only been arrested recently. We'll just have to see if anyone actually gets convicted, and, furthermore, how many of them turn out to be influential and powerful.
[Citation needed]
Both are atheists. "Agnostic" was a term coined by a man who admitted that the term "atheist" applied to him but didn't want to be lumped in with other people the term also applied to.
[citation needed]
atheist - a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.
agnostic - a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.
When I reached intellectual maturity and began to ask myself whether I was an atheist, a theist, or a pantheist; a materialist or an idealist; Christian or a freethinker; I found that the more I learned and reflected, the less ready was the answer; until, at last, I came to the conclusion that I had neither art nor part with any of these denominations, except the last. The one thing in which most of these good people were agreed was the one thing in which I differed from them. They were quite sure they had attained a certain "gnosis,"–had, more or less successfully, solved the problem of existence; while I was quite sure I had not, and had a pretty strong conviction that the problem was insoluble. So I took thought, and invented what I conceived to be the appropriate title of "agnostic." It came into my head as suggestively antithetic to the "gnostic" of Church history, who professed to know so much about the very things of which I was ignorant. To my great satisfaction the term took. - Huxley, Thomas. Collected Essays. pp. 237–239. ISBN 1-85506-922-9 (via Wikipedia).
It's totally irrelevant to this discussion.
But I have to say it...
Both are atheists, and one is agnostic. They aren't mutually exclusive. They address different questions.
Do you have a belief in a god? If not, you're an atheist. ("I don't know." = "I lack a belief in god.")
Do you think you can possibly know for sure? If not, you're agnostic.
I have never met a gnostic atheist, but they might exist.
Here's my take. An atheist is more or less a "non-theist." That is, he does not believe in the deity of others. In my mind, God (or Allah, etc.) is a creation of Man, and I don't believe that Man can know God enough to come to a complete understanding/definition. Therefore, I cannot believe in God/Allah - I am an a-theist.
But, I don't have the hubris to think that I can know the intimate workings of the Universe (at least at this point, and in the long foreseeable future). Therefore, I am an agnostic - I literally don't know.
Ceci n'est pas un sig.
Technically, guantanamo is in US, not Cuba. Generally speaking its on the Cuban island, but if you want to be technical, please specify that it is US.
`Based on information provided by the CW, and based on a transcript of Internet chats recorded by the FBI, I know that on or about August 4, 2011, the CW and an individual using the online nickname "palladium" exchanged private chat messages over the Internet. During the chat, the CW and palladium discussed the theft of Palladium's online by another individual. Palladium inquired what he could do to prove his identity to the CW and stated, "I can post some info I have from really old opps," meaning prior computer hacking activity.
Palladium continued, "I can explain something about the sun" and "I can give you some info I still have from the first fox LFI [hack]." Later in the chat, the CW asked if certain IP address (the "Palladium Address") was used by palladium, to which palladium responded that the "ip [address] looks like a wifi I connect from." The CW also asked whether palladium uses "Perfect Privacy," a virtual private network service located in Germany, to which palladium responded, "Yes I use that vpn."' scribid
"Currently looking for internships / summer work in the InfoSec industry". linkedit
I'm at a loss as to why that sentence didn't implode upon itself.
Congress voted for war in Iraq so stfu until you have some facts at the table, peacenik.
Correction: There is no credible metric with which to make such a comparison. There is, however, conjecture, hearsay, anecdote, polemic pontificating, etc. In the spirit thereof, I submit that MSNBC is the opposite of FoxNews; and CNN just sucks.
Help fight poverty: Punch a poor person.
Which is why the FBI absolutely had to conscript it's leader.
Check your premises.
an FBI official involved with the investigation. 'We're chopping off the head of LulzSec.'"
the organization's brazen leader — who sources say has been secretly working for the government for months
[s]Yes, because obviously anyone who says they'd even consider comparing and assessing information from sources other than those who are biased solidly to the Left politically are obviously radical, goose-stepping, book-burning, racist neocons out to turn the USA and then the world into a White ultra-Christian Theocracy secretly controlled by the Jews.[/s]
Strat
Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
Technically, guantanamo is in US, not Cuba. Generally speaking its on the Cuban island, but if you want to be technical, please specify that it is US.
No, if you want to be technical, it's Cuban.
United States leases the Guantanamo Bay base area from Cuba. It's under US jurisdiction, but Cuban souvereignty.
That it's not on US soil is precisely what Donald Rushfeldt used as a sleazeball argument for bypassing US laws.
I disbelieve your definitions; In fact I will go further and say I believe they are incorrect. I am an atheist. I *believe* that God does not exist. Now, I could be wrong. I could be mistaken, and additional evidence could come forward to make me change my opinion, but at the present time, it is a belief that God, at least as described by the world's religions, does not exist. I was once an agnostic. I believed that I did not have enough evidence to form a rational opinion on the existence of God. I never believed that knowledge of his existence or non-existence was unknowable or unattainable, but that I did not have enough understanding of the world to form a rational belief about his existence. I do now; I am an atheist.
But all of the politicans suck. :(
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
I'm guessing that they'll find that Murdoch, a well-known micro-manager of his empire, had absolutely no knowledge of the corruption and downright cavalier cultures at his two largest UK newspapers.
The sheer arrogance of already planning on re-opening the News of The World under a new name, before making a big play of shutting it down, is breathtaking.
Do me a favor and, if you are American, don't talk for the rest of us. Stop the sweeping generalization nonsense.
Let's all start a PMC and oh call it "Bell Towers" :D Professional politicians have long since figured out how to mitigate the effects of voters. In fact, i would go a step further and say that nothing changes even if you banded together entire slashdot/reddit/arstechnica/digg user base. When it comes down to the basics, your votes really don't matter. Tell me, you honestly think people sitting in congress or on bench or in executive departments are actually the ones making real decisions? Hmmm... that's rather naive. All in all, everything can be reduced down to a numbers game. As long as you got stupid people to front your operation, you can push your agenda while switch between a number of people. And no, it's not some sinister and hidden "shadow governemnt" either, it's just the leadership of the democrat and republican parties.
Where is the "Ignorant" mod tag?
Your an idiot because dotcom was arrested in new Zealand.
Congress voted for war in Iraq so stfu until you have some facts at the table
They voted for military engagement but did not declare war. Congress has only declared war formally 5 times
Yep, watch out for Gitmo. The secret base, so secret that everyone talks about it all the time, and it gets referenced on almost every news site at least once daily (even if the story doesn't directly have anything to do with it).
You make a lot of good points. One only has to look at societies where social justice is stronger than in the US to see that you speak the truth.
Look at Japan, look at Sweden, Norway, Denmark. It is true that they are exceptions and even there, social justice is not perfect. That's because human nature is the same everywhere. I suspect something in the culture simply acts as a counterweight there. And even that counterweight can become evil because it is often grounded in national pride and chauvinism which gives us racism and so forth.
The fact of the matter is that the flawed idealists in this world who get mad when they discover the truth take drastic action always end up the villains.
Here is a scary thought for you. Guerillas in south america, the original russian socialists, today's terrorists are all romantics instead of pragmatists.
I know I'm not going to convince anyone. I just wanted to share some random thoughts.
And I know for a FACT that that's a BS argument on his part, because any military base or embassy anywhere in the world is considered US soil.
"Prediction: within 10 years, Windows will be a Linux distribution." Me, 7-6-2016
Perhaps, "ignored until it makes so much news that it can no longer be wept under the rug" is more accurate. The SEC was repeatedly warned that Madoff was not running a legitimate investment fund, but nothing was done until the stock market tanked and people started to try withdrawing their money, only to find there wasn't any there.
Even that description is too strict though. After nearly four years, there have been very few prosecutions in the fraudulent behaviour (both in creating the mortgages and in reselling the mortgage-based securities) that led to the sub-prime mortgage crash. So the real description is probably "ignored until it hurts individuals with significant political clout".
Does the constitution say what constitutes a declaration of war? Is war with another nation only permissible when congress passes a resolution with the words 'declaration of war' in it? Is the explicit allocation of funds for an armed conflict with another nation adequate? When Jefferson and Madison, both of whom knew a thing or two about the constitution, oversaw the first and second Barbary wars without explicit declarations of war, do you think they thought those war were in violation of the constitution? Was the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, any less legitimate a declaration of war than the congressional authorizations for the first and second Barbary wars?
It has become hard to win a war unless it can be characterised as a police action operating under agreed law. It is also true that things that labled as wars are still being fought under law about which there is a lot of dispute and that these are wars which are destined to fail because they are not "police actions". There was sufficient agreement under international law to grant leathal support to the popularist movement in Libya but the legal disagreements about Syria leave us standing aside whilst the appparently fractured opposition is systematically exterminated. Involvement in Libya was a police action, involvement in Syria would be a war. Wining a shooting war against Iranian nuclear weapons capability is going to be pretty difficult until we legally outlaw the nuclear fuel cycle that makes plutonium and replace it with one that does not make weapon materials. I suspect that the Chinese will give away thorium cycle nuclear power reactors to any nation that doesnt have traditional Uranium based reactors. The world is on a path all be it shaky to a more civilised future. I'll grant you that its still pretty shaky though.
Facts are history now plebs have politics for religion on social media.
I think their claims of wiping out the organization by cutting off it's head would have some more credibility if Lulzsec had not already disbanded.
gnostic athiests are those who say "I don't believe in God, but I'm very spiritual" - in other words, they're willing to accept sky wizards in the right company. It all depends who their trying to impress and/or sound smarter or more ethical than.
3.-attempted to set up a false flag to take away your second amendment rights with "Fast & Furious" which led to dozens being murdered by guns provided by the US government to terrorists.
I'm unclear as to how you arrived at infringement of second amendment rights with "fast and furious." I thought the guns were going into Mexico. You'd have to have very low esteem of gun control advocates if you're suggesting they'd try to use the agency who is supposed to be regulating firearms screwing up and arming mexican gangs as an argument against the second amendment.
Put another way, if that's what you think second amendment opponents are cooking up, then why are you so worried they're going to succeed in taking away your rights? That's a terrible plan. I don't see any politicians standing up and suggesting we need gun control. Even after Giffords was shot, I didn't hear anyone seriously talking about gun regulation. Where is this paranoia coming from? Especially while the other things you said are ACTUAL erosions of your rights.
Hey, what did Jeffrey Dahmer do that affected you? What did the Columbine shooters do that affected you.
Luckily, the law isnt based on what inconveniences you. There are other people living on this planet, you half-wit.
Trust me, there are plenty of federal agents who'd love to be the big hero who sent the CEO of Bank of America to life in prison. It's just that the CEO of Bank of America is a little more savvy than the stoner "hee hee nobody can find me I'm using a proxy" kid, and has teams of lawyers advising him on how to stay in the clear.
The constitution says that congress must approve military operations. It does not say that they must use the words "Declare War". Whether or not the bill passed uses the words "Declare War" is irrelevant. If you want to see what an actual illegal war looks like, try Libya, where Obama ordered combat operations lasting over the limits set in the War Powers Act without any congressional approval. Congress, of course, decided to do nothing about this, thus proving once again that the Republicans are worth about as little as the Democrats when it comes to respecting the Constitution.
I don't reply to ACs
I can see things like bitcoin "challenging the status quo."
Bitcoin? Not really.
Liberty Dollars? Hell yes.
A so-called "counterfeit" dollar, except as the USD continues to depreciate, liberty dollars maintained value and were worth more.
n/a
And, technically or otherwise, New Zealand is not Australia (except for Bondi, technically)
"In light of Sabu's apparent arrest, and cooperation with the government, I've reprinted a selection from my chat with him about identity, hacker vigilantes, and his fear of getting busted." link
AccountKiller
You act like this stuff hasnt gone on for the ENTIRETY of human existence.
Indeed. Indeed in fact I would say it's been going on since before we were human, many speicies of mammals are territorial and live in hieracrchical societies. Human morality reflects this inate behaviour with a prime example being the ten commandments, many of which are simply asserting God's role as the omnipresent Alpha male who cannot be understood but must be obeyed. Just look at the number of.people who are still eager to give their rulers the right to kill them via corporal punishment despite the fact is has zero practical benifit to society as a whole.
If anything, modern society has reduced the more brutal extremes of this behaviour. The Alpha members of (western) sociuety can no longer keep slaves or conscript peasants to fight their wars, they cannot murder you on whim and in most western countries they cannot murder you at all, nor can they tourtue you in the public square, or forcibly take your wife/daughter for their own entertainment. Of course someone like Murdoch can still screw up your life if they so desire, just not as effectively, permanently, or as easily as in the past. Even the recent past, as in a few decades ago.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
You're a gnostic atheist. I, who don't believe in the non-existance of god(s), am a agnostic atheist.
Here's a nice diagram and explanation: http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/09/25/8419/
Dilbert RSS feed
So was Huxley agnostic about Zeus, too?
It's a completely meaningless weasel word.
No. A gnostic atheist is someone who says "there are no god(s)".
An agnostic atheist is someone who says "I don't believe in gods, but I can't assert their non-existance either".
Then there are the ignosticists, who say "before I answer, define 'god'."
Dilbert RSS feed
Is Wikileaks leaky too?
A Murdoch company crying to the police about being hacked.
What's next? Another Murdoch company complaining about being libeled?
The real serious threats are the ones who broke into RSA and Lockheed et cetera. They aren't doing it for the Lulz, they are doing it for the treason.
But of course the FBI can't so easily get an easy win.
Truly open minded people don't watch Fox and CNN.
Can you site a case for this?
oooooh that makes it "fair"!!! Do tell, assmunch!
"United States leases the Guantanamo Bay base area from Cuba. It's under US jurisdiction, but Cuban souvereignty." No, the US always claims to be leasing it, but the US doesn't pay (they write checks to a Cuban position that no longer exists, and hasn't existed since the revolution). Plus the terms of the lease are in violation of the Vienna Laws on Treaty Conventions. What you have there is simple occupation at the point of a gun to a government that the US doesn't like.
The baby's fine -- please stop sending business cards.
If it doesn't change the status quo then how come Wikileaks is now America's most wanted?
Information is power.
DrE
I believe Obama (and Clinton with Kosovo) argued that since there were no ground troops the War Powers Act didn't apply. Since the War Powers Act says things like 'forbids armed forces from remaining for more than 60 days'. Well if you're flying in and out of the country with air strikes, armed forces are not remaining for more than 60 days at any given time. I'm not defending their position but that's what they argue. Whether it's illegal or not has never been determined. Likewise, whether the War Powers Act is constitutional or not has never been determined (since it's never been challenged).
The Constitution Article 1 Section 8 gives the Legislature the power 'To Declare War'. A Declaration of war is largely semantics (and has been in other countries as well including before the U.S. existed), yet it stands that we have only formally declared war 5 times. Pragmatically it is obvious that we have gone to war more times and that Congress has supported military actions more than 5 times.
Going by your posts strat that radical goose stepping thing is exactly your position.
Trust no one. This is rule #1 if you are doing anything shady.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
We prefer the term "humanitarian intervention." The savages don't know how to handle their resources properly. You see we're just performing a service for them educating, civilizing and giving them the chance to participate in "free trade." It's all for their own good.
Kim Dotcom was arrested in New Zealand, not Australia, and the biggest complaint he's had about his treatment is that he doesn't have enough money to pay for all his domestic staff.
So let's not get carried away here.
I have a problem with the police breaking into people's homes and shooting them because they are suspected of having drugs. In my state for example they send in the SWAT team and do just that. Todd Blair was shot from fifteen feet away when all he had was a golf club. Watch the video, the officer says get on the guh (Pow Pow Pow). Didn't give him a chance to react. They didn't find any drugs on him either. Since there's not enough crime here they need to go after innocent people to keep the funds flowing in.
The SEC lets corporations police themselves.
Anyone who thinks the politicians from both parties aren't up to their necks in graft is living in a bubble.
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/03/06/exclusive-inside-lulzsec-mastermind-turns-on-his-minions/?intcmp=obinsite
Going by your posts strat that radical goose stepping thing is exactly your position.
Sorry.
Tree.
Barking.
You're doing it up the wrong one.
I'm more small-"L" libertarian.
Just to demonstrate, I will now unilaterally impose my political will on you.
I shall FORCE you to...
Well...nothing at all.
Take THAT! Muaahahaha!
Did that make you feel...dirty? :P
As long as others respect my rights and don't infringe upon them or expect me to pay for things they want for themselves, they can do whatever they please.
And please note that having small-"L" libertarian views doesn't mean I favor lawless anarchy. Small government =/= NO government and/or anarchy.
Awfully hard to "goose step" without a big enough central government to support "goose-steppers". "Goose stepping" implies Fascism, which is "large government" (as are all authoritarian/totalitarian/communist/socialist governments) and which is anathema to libertarian views.
All totalitarian, police-state, tyrannical governments necessarily exhibit large and powerful central governments. I'm against large and powerful central governments.
[s] So yeah, other than all my posts being directly in opposition to tyranny and large central governments and in favor of the maximum amount of individual freedom possible while maintaining a functioning society, I'm a "goose-stepper" all right. [/s]
Do people like you just pull crap out of your ass like this ALL the time? Or is it just whenever politics comes up that your critical thinking ability zeroes-out?
Strat
Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
It embarrasses the powers that be. It makes them look weak and foolish, and they definitely do not like that.
Oh, of course. No need to post proof that if Lulzsec were doing this for profit to help a company they would get a slap on the wrist.
Instead, just post some pablum about "storm troopers kicking down doors" to get a knee-jerk rah-rah-rah reaction from the Slashdot crowd. Modded to +5 too! This place feels like Fox News sometimes.
Australia? Fuck off, mate.
It gripped her hand gently. 'Regret is for humans,' it said.
Because the way these guns are purchased is through a legal loophole which does not require background checks and other required checks you would need to go through normally.
In essence, you can go to a gun convention, purchase multiple guns of any type, and walk out without a problem.
What happens is that the Cartel asks people to purchase the guns for them, and people do. Then they are transported over border and lost in Mexico.
So this person feels his Second amendment rights are somehow at risk if we close this loophole, which would require limited purchases and background checks.
Maybe not Lulzsec, but Megaupload's Kim Dotcom was arrested in the conditions you described (helicopters and all) in the first half. As for the second half, look at what happens in Gitmo and other secret CIA prisons. Unless you're one of those people who think waterboarding is not torture.
Yes, one happend in Australia and the other in the States (Cuba technically). But Megaupload was done at the behest of the U.S. government and their industry cronies. Don't think that it couldn't happen here, in the land of the free and home of the brave.
It may come as a surprise to you, but New Zealand is actually a separate country, not a province/state of Australia.
According to the law they were working for the government. It has been stated as fact that the leader, the head conspirator, the person in charge of the group, the person who recruited people selected and initiated the attacks was a government agent (1. A person who acts on behalf of another, in particular).
So this could prove to become a real problem for US let's all get promotions Law abandonment (could hardly call this action upholding the law). A lot of countries will have to throw this out as blatant entrapment.
So Hector Xavier Monsegur, 28, conspired with US authorities to fabricate charges in order to minimise his punishment for the crimes he committed. He did this via entrapping others to participate in crimes that he at the behest of the US government initiated. Only a severely censored trail of evidence (hiding as much of the government conspiracy, instigation and peer coercion), will be submitted anything evidence that damages the case will have been excluded or destroyed.
So can someone arrested say, but I knew that Hector Xavier Monsegur as leader of the group was acting on behalf of US authorities and as such my activities as directed by Hector Xavier Monsegur were legal activities on behalf of the US government. If the leader of the group was not instigating the conspiracy and crimes, would the particular crimes have occurred.
It seems like US agents, have yet again gone rogue in their desperation to get promotion building convictions. In their hair brained plotting and scheming, they created the conspiracy and lead the crimes.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
I liked that just because it gave a word to describe where I fall: apatheist
I always post as anonymous coward. Of course, I do it for the lulz!
Except that's not true. Embassies and military bases are sovereign territory of the host state, but have special diplomatic immunity by treaty (the Vienna Convention). So before declaring something a FACT (in capital letters no less), you should probably verify it's not WRONG (also capital letters).
For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
shut yo mouth! how dare you say such things. we all know that IT is only 80% dudes because only 80% dudes are smart enough to click 'install windows now' and tell people 'have you tried rebooting' over the phone.
I was an apatheist, too, until I came to understand the threat to civilization posed by theism. At that point I found it necessary to stand on one side of the line or the other.
Your post is largely bull.
U.S. Naval Base
Since 1903 the United States has held an indefinite lease on the property, which it claimed as a prize at the end of the Spanish-American War. The 45 square miles of land and water were formally handed over to the United States in ceremonies aboard the USS Kearsarge, anchored in the bay, on December 10, 1903.
The Platt Amendment, which “granted” use of the base to Uncle Sam, was dropped in 1934, and a new treaty was signed. Although it confirmed Cuba’s “ultimate sovereignty,” the treaty stipulated that the lease would be indefinite and could be terminated only by agreement of both parties (or if the United States decides to pull out). In the original lease, the United States agreed to pay Cuba the sum of US$2,000 in gold per year.
In 1934, when gold coins were discontinued, the rent was upped to US$4,085, payable by U.S. Treasury check. The first rent check that Uncle Sam paid to Castro’s regime, in 1959, was cashed. Since then Fidel, who refuses to accept the legitimacy of the treaty, has refused to cash the checks.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
the matrix ... agents ...
Agent Smith: We're willing to wipe the slate clean, give you a fresh start. All that we're asking in return is your cooperation in bringing a known terrorist to justice.
we are made to believe that all these lulzsec, wikileaks and anonymous people are "terrorists". is that really so?
I use the Daily Show to keep up with what's happening in the US, which has become troublesome now since the "Sorry, this video is unavailable from your location" messages started. It's so annoying finding proxies, and the ads I get between segments have absolutely no relevance to me now because they aren't localised.
So let's get this straight:
1. Sabu was fucking dumb enough to not just get caught, he got caught pretty quickly - within about a month of Lulzsec's first attacks.
2. Sabu rolled on his team, like, almost immediately. Kind of coincidence Topiary got busted a month later? And Sabu had a story in his tweets about how Topiary got caught through a gaming connection.
What a fucken punk!
Actually YOU sir are being lied to. F&F was abandoned by Bush and then picked up when Hillary Clinton tried to claim that it was American guns supplying the cartels when the data showed the VAST majority of their guns (which is still true to this day BTW) was coming from former Soviet bloc nations through South America. Now since Hillary has been on record for years that she doesn't believe the second amendment gives American the right to own shit, just the militia AKA National Guard they then went about trying to make their facts fit the story. Several former FBI agents even called it a "false flag event" to justify pushing for more gun regulations.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Major Un Oh for sure!
So what are the fancy terms for each of these "beliefs":
1) Doesn't believe in Trolls.
2) Doesn't believe in Turtles holding the earth on top of snakes (or similar)
3) Doesn't believe in Santa
4) Doesn't believe in Demons
5) Doesn't believe in the invisible monster behind your back
Because you can not really say they're not real, nor can any other human.
"Science can amuse and fascinate us all, but it is engineering that changes the world. " - Asimov.
Comparing the centrist journalistic standards of CNN and Fox's red-meat epistemology is quite absurd. Of course, this is exactly what Murdoch wants you to do. It is interesting that the political right accuses liberals of "relativism", and it is true. But your statement is about as brain-dead as relativism can be.
/do/ watch both CNN and fox. One is good for news, and the other for studying the political mind.
btw, I
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
When you write "denies", or "disbelieves", or "holds", you are essentially expressing some sort of qualification on believe. So, to be more straight forward, and I think accurate:
Atheist - A person who believe there is no god, or supreme beings.
Agnostic - A person who believes we don't know or can't know if god or supreme beings exist.
Once confronted with the question, "Does God exist?", there are pretty much three options: Yes, No, I don't know.
Saying no, means you believe that God doesn't exist, since you can't really prove that in any rigorous, universal way. Realistically you can't know that.
"Atheism is the most daring of all dogmas, for it is the assertion of a universal negative." - G.K. Chesterton
Richard Dawkins: I can't be sure God does not exist
There was surprise when Prof Dawkins acknowledged that he was less than 100 per cent certain of his conviction that there is no creator.
The philosopher Sir Anthony Kenny, who chaired the discussion, interjected: “Why don’t you call yourself an agnostic?” Prof Dawkins answered that he did.
An incredulous Sir Anthony replied: “You are described as the world’s most famous atheist.”
Prof Dawkins said that he was “6.9 out of seven” sure of his beliefs.
“I think the probability of a supernatural creator existing is very very low,” he added.
Collins: Why this scientist believes in God - Dr. Francis Collins
THE RELATION OF SCIENCE AND RELIGION - Some fresh observations on an old problem - by RICHARD P. FEYNMAN
The Public Face of Religion in America
Matthew Parris: As an atheist, I truly believe Africa needs God
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
You forgot to copy-paste this:
Atheism - Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.
People who believe in nonexistence of god are called nihilists.
Saying that you watch CNN and Fox News is like saying you eat both McDonalds AND Burger King because you heard both are unhealthy. You've still got a problem.
Yes, one happend in Australia
Nope, no where near Bondi cuz
Not hard to guess where you were "educated" (or which channel the school was on).
Demonoid Penguin
Truly free and open minded people have the ability to watch both (and admit it), put the various pieces together and come up with their own opinion.
Self exemption is cool.
To be honest, LulSec are probably more like the Lernaean Hydra of Greek myth. You cut off one head and two more appear.
One of the reasons people hack is because it goes against the status quo. And the US government is just making martyrs out of these people.
Plus it's easier to keep that "we've never lost a war!" (except for 1812) thing intact if all you do is engage in police actions.
imagine an agent saying hte following seriously at a press conf 'We're chopping off the head of LulzSec.'". IDIFTL
My IP has submitted to dash slot in arpa fan dango, evil java script LOIC gay script kiddies, but packectstorm security is sexellent like freshmeat.net for you nix perverts and stroke my pussy as she is a meowing machine and warm an furry cat MEOW!!!
Do well connected companies do blackhat things for large contractors businesses and politicians? We all have the feeling that they do, but there has to be specific allegations and specific cases, not just a general feeling of corruption.
What about Newscorp's massive hacking/bribery conspiracy involving dozens of victims and government officials?
What about massive foreclosure fraud? (proved, payed off with bribes "settled" as usual)
What about Google's 100's millions international drug trafficking? (proved, "settled")
I wouldn't trust the fucking United Snakes government to tell me its raining outside.
I do regularly. They're quite accurate.
Actually, the FBI and US law enforcement agents have started picking up good bucks on the side following in the footsteps of congress-critters -- getting paid for 'outside work' by media companies.
Actually, the FBI and US law enforcement agents have started picking up good bucks on the side following in the footsteps of congress-critters -- getting paid for 'outside work' by media companies.
They don't make millions trust me. They make between $80,000-150,000. Thats good money but not millions.
I guess it depends on what kind of information is released. Just putting out wads of credit card data of anyone they can find is not really a tactic that would gain sympathy or can be morally justified. Putting out documents to prove corruption and abuse of taxmoney or violation of basic rights is imo entirely justified even if it need breaking into whatever. I get the impression these loosely organised collectives arent organised at all. The first rule is that you shouldn't know too many people by name or personal within the organization if you intend to do stuff like that. You can't give up what you don't know. They should have done their homework. I read about other 'crackdowns' where one of the key figures was in fact working for a government agency and had infiltrated by committing various crimes themselves. The end and the means and all that. I hope the remainders learn their lesson from this.
Free speech was meant to be free for all... how can anyone grow up in a nanny state ?
Atheist means the resolute belief that there is no Creator. I cannot say if there is a Creator or not, nor can any other living human being. This makes me an atheist?
If you think everyone who describes themselves as atheist are actually taking up the unsupportable position that 'there definitely is no god' then you're just setting up a straw man. I consider myself atheist but consider a position such as that stupid. There's no way to know if God exists, but no good reason to think there is.
In a way, it's the difference between Temporary Agnosticism in Practice and Permanent Agnosticism in Principle. For me you couldn't even really say for sure that God exists even if he showed up and started working miracles, because there's no way to tell it's not a super-powerful alien.
If you disagree regarding the definition you'll find the first paragraph of the Wikipedia article on atheism includes both definitions and is reasonably well cited.
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
"its"