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FBI Says American Universities Infiltrated by Spies
An anonymous reader writes, using various bits of the article: "While most international students, researchers and professors come to the U.S. for legitimate reasons, universities are an 'ideal place' for foreign intelligence services 'to find recruits, propose and nurture ideas, learn and even steal research data, or place trainees,' according to a 2011 FBI report. Tretyakov was quoted as saying, 'We often targeted academics because their job was to share knowledge and information by teaching it to others, and this made them less guarded than, say, UN diplomats.' China has 'lots of students who either are forced to or volunteer to collect information,' he said. 'I've heard it said, "If it wanted to steal a beach, Russia would send a forklift. China would send a thousand people who would pick up a grain of sand at a time."' China also has more than 3,000 front companies in the U.S. 'for the sole purpose of acquiring our technology,' said former CIA officer S. Eugene Poteat."
The war on the academic sector. One more nail in our coffin.
This was a headline for the 1960's. Today its much, much worse - and sadly only now noticed. 3,000 companies? Only? And how many tens of thousands of grain-pickers? China, Iran, you name it - the US and the West are over-run....
The first russian spy is Sergey Brin for sure!
Virtually all of us are infested with CIA. What's the problem?
Meanwhile the Japanese would study the beach, then copy it, in miniature.
The Brits would copy it but get all the good bits wrong and make the bad bits worse.
The Australians would make a copy that is just better but they would never stop feeling inferior about it.
The greeks would expect the rest of the world to pay for it.
The saudies would just buy it and see nothing wrong with paying a fortune for sand.
The Germans would dig a hole in it.
The dutch wouldn't feel happy on it until they build a sand castle to protect against the tide.
Apple would put it in a pretty box and sell it for a premium but you could only use it as Jobs intended.
Have I insulted everyone yet? Not on topic? Oh come on, universities have always been a haven for spies and the recruitment of spies. Duh, where else to find information, underpaid people with lots of info and impressionable young minds looking for a cause?
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Foreigners are at an university to "nurture ideas" and to "learn"!! CALL THE FBI!!!
Seriously, knowledge is supposed to be shared.
As for technology, one could argue that the current patent system is broken. Besides, I personally find it hard to believe that it's necessary for the Chinese to spy a lot on US universities when all the latest gizmos are produced in China anyway.
The purpose of universities is to share knowledge. That's why research gets published - for the whole world to see.
Information can not get stolen. Not when it's about copyright and not when it's about research. It can only get copied and doing that generally leads to more knowledge.
I don't trust anything the FBI says. Any more than I would trust an announcement from the NKVD (The People's Commissariat for Internal Affairs). What is the purpose of this announcement supposed to be? To induce paranoia and racism against any student whose genetics cannot be traced from Western Europe? Is it something along the lines of "If you see something, say something."? And look where that got us. The persecution of innocent people who look middle eastern or Indian or Pakistani. I think it's clear that our government's vision of an ideal society is to that of East Germany except more racially pure.
The school's campus in Dubai needed a bailout and an unlikely savior had stepped forward: a Dubai-based company that offered to provide money and students.
Simon was tempted. She also worried that the company, which had investors from Iran and wanted to recruit students from there, might be a front for the Iranian government, she said. If so, an agreement could violate federal trade sanctions and invite enemy spies.
The CIA couldnâ(TM)t confirm that the company wasnâ(TM)t an arm of Iranâ(TM)s government. Simon rejected the offer and shut down undergraduate programs in Dubai, at a loss of $3.7 million.
Un-fucking-believable. Paranoia, distrust, racism. It's truly a shameful time to be an American. Yes. College students are a threat. All Iranians and people from Dubai are a threat. Everyone and everything except lily white Americans of pure European descent are threats to our 'national security'. Trust no one. There are conspiracies everywhere you look and only the FBI and CIA can save us. Better increase their funding or we're all gonna die!
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
Xenophobic, much?
I'm pretty sure that if China was intent on sending a superspy to steal your celestial mechanics precious bodily fluids, they wouldn't send someone with a space military related publication record, and have him write an article on it available over the internet: http://en.cnki.com.cn/Article_en/CJFDTOTAL-XYZH200901020.htm
Maybe people should just realise that academics are interested in all sorts of different stuff, that all research publications are gonna be read by someone combing over it in search of military applications, and that if you are actually doing military significant research, you should do it under Darpa or something and security check your staff?
Just close all universities and turn them into LDS churches.
Stealing ideas? So that they can create competing outfits that create the same product more cheaply? Causing consumers to "vote with their wallets?"
Isn't this, like, exactly the sort of thing Adam Smith was dreaming about?
I don't trust anything the FBI says. Any more than I would trust an announcement from the NKVD (The People's Commissariat for Internal Affairs). What is the purpose of this announcement supposed to be? To induce paranoia and racism against any student whose genetics cannot be traced from Western Europe?
OMFG the little yellow people with the funny eyes want to steal everything we own! They are a threat to the AMURICAN WAY OF LIFE, and they would steal that too! They aren't even real commies, they are yellow instead of red!
I too tire of this constant barrage of borderline racist propaganda from the media. While I distrust the motives of the alphabet soup agents, the real culprit is the media. Say the FBI does a study about corporate espionage in China, at the request of a senator or some other asshole in Washington that has hear there is a 'Yellow menace', and wants to know more. They do a report, and find 3k companies that are stealing shit from us. (Aside: 3k companies in a country of 1.5 BILLION people that are illicit, really? BTW, how many companies are in all of China? How do you know they are stealing stuff? How many companies are there in the US that are conducting corporate espionage?) They write the report and that would be the end of it, except some jerk editor throws a story on the wire about how China is stacked 10 people deep with thieves which causes everybody else to believe it too, because the media always tells the truth.
Lets be real here, China has a problem with corruption, and there are some people there stealing stuff and committing IP violations. Guess what, so does every other country in the world. Enough with the propaganda.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
A better headline might have been, "right-wing blowhard says just what you'd expect a right-wing blowhard to say."
Do you notice how the ideas that there are all these threats from everywhere are invading the public discourse?
There are all these 'stories' about spies, these have been coming out fairly consistently. Anybody remembers Anna Chapman? AFAIC it was a story about a Russian prostitute mistaken for a super-secret spy.
But there are all these other stories, everything, from spies to the idea that there is more racism or sexism than ever, to supposed nuclear threats from Iran and such, take your pick.
In reality of-course there are various political forces that are gaining power from proliferation of ideas that there is this huge division: us vs. them, them vs. us, divide you into international camps, then into race camps and into gender camps, again, choose your poison.
This is a very old trick - divide and conquer, use every bit of negative news and blow it way out of proportion, use any anecdotal evidence to create various false movements, whatever.
It's all done in order to be able to take your attention away from the real problems. How about the fact that Obama was basically an agent of the banks and the ruling elite, very skilfully disguised as a populous movement with ideology of CHANGE - changing what? Changing the way that the government works!
All the while Ron Paul is marginalised, the guy who is building real momentum, a real movement of change - this is scary, this has to be stopped and you know it's being actively fought against by the media and the government and every dollar that is coming from the corporate ruling elite.
Your government and your corporate monopolistic elite are one and the same. Ask yourself: exactly what is fascism? How is it possible that a Republic descends into fascism? Through the little trick of 'democracy' of-course. Democracy is a gateway drug to fascism, democracy comes after republic creates enough freedoms that the economy booms and allows a few to feed the many, allows the many to ask the few to give them more and more without bothering themselves to produce. This is 'bread and circuses' and the politicians are using it very effectively to destroy the very concept of individual freedoms on daily basis.
Notice how they even destroyed the concept of INDIVIDUAL freedoms by introducing the false flags of so called 'civil rights' and 'women rights' and 'minority rights' and whatever else rights. Why am I saying those are false flags? Because all of those people should have the same exact rights, and all of those rights are individual rights, but creating these separate concepts of 'rights' what really is done is that some are given not rights, but privileges, while others are forced into obligations.
And you can't have individual freedoms when some are given something at the expense of others. You NEED a powerful state to ensure that these entitlements are given to some at the expense of others, and that's just another way to 'divide and conquer'.
--
Closer to TFA: the universities are supposed to be these bastions of free expression of ideas, where non-mainstream ideas can be expressed and looked at without bias, but are they?
Who will it help if the universities end up being 'secured' the way airports are with TSA agents, for example, looking for signs of 'infiltration'?
How about FBI raiding universities with (or without) search warrants, turning papers and files over, breaking hands and throwing charges around? How about military doing it? (don't forget NDAA). What if they find a TERRORIST SYMPATHISER?! Will you ever see or hear from that person again, after all, they are terrorists, otherwise they wouldn't have been taken into the custody in the first place, right?
You think it's too far? Where do you think this is going?
You can't handle the truth.
I am not an american but anything remotely important is off-limits for Chinese exchange students.
China also has more than 3,000 front companies in the U.S.
See? That's what you call a job creator. Outsourcing works both ways.
Apple's i-everything devices are manufactured in China (e.g. Foxconn). Not only do they have the final products in their hands, they also have the individual components and the instructions to assemble them. Otherwise, Foxconn's assembly lines wouldn't work. Ditto for smartphones/laptops/computers/routers.
I'm not repeating myself
I'm an X window user; I'm an ex-Windows user
I think this is an interesting post, because i have been thinking that a lot of countries with spy agencies are going to be stumbling across all sorts of valuable information, and in a nutshell, some of it can easily help an economy or help a country technologically advance. I have no doubt, that the spy agencies do some industrial espionage, and some companies get the benefit of that information.
Is there a limit to paranoia? I fear there isn't.
Anyone can make up stuff and get themselves paranoid over it. It'll be funny, but then one of these paranoid schizophrenics might eventually get their finger on the nuke trigger. I dont see the point of making enemies with the whole world. I mean, do we really want a war with the Russians and Chinese? Unlike some other countries, they can actually fight back some. Is it worth losing a few million lives over .. still don't care? ... well .. imagine those lives lost were you .. over what .. paranoia and economic issues? If you think the economy sucks now, let's not see how it performs during a nuclear war.
They are already getting our technology, their building it. If they want more of it offer free shipping their already making it for us cheap.
Even my Kershaw knife is made in china, but designed in the USA. Says so right on the box, it's actually quite high quality too I may add. The only things I have off hand that aren't made in china is some of my airsoft guns which are made in Taiwan and Japan. And I think my craftsman tools are still made in the US, I think I have to double check. That is about it.
"If it wanted to steal a beach, Russia would send a forklift."
i attended a security briefing whilst working in a secure environment where i was, rather unusually, going to be going on holiday to china (hence the concern of the company i was working for, and the reason why they gave me the security briefing).
according to that briefing, the description of china's intelligence strategy is correct: yes, china intelligence operatives will simply approach absolutely any chinese citizen and grill them. tourists who happened to be on holiday who took photos of a U.S. naval ship, which contains pictures of the antenna arrays on the top of the ship and so on. and, because of the chinese culture of rote-learning, chinese citizens memorisation abilities are legendary.
russia on the other hand, i was told, would send in sleeper-agents, specially-trained, and activate them as needed, decades later. if you've seen the film "Red", although that's highly specialist area (assassins), it's pretty accurate as to the strategy that's deployed by russian intelligence, generally.
from a different source, i've heard rumour of someone who found out that russia has sleeper agents in british schools. sounds far-fetched, and like all sleeper-agent intelligence operations is easily deniable as "insane conspiracy theory" ha ha ha look what he's smoking. except this guy who found out is - was - an MP - and was getting death threats. he'd come home and find that all the pictures of his family had been turned to face the wall. real comforting stuff.
Incidentally, Kim Philby maintained that he did not spy on Britain for the Soviet Union; he spied on the USA on behalf of both. Perhaps bizarrely to American ideas, the Cambridge group seem to have seen themselves as patriots, helping to protect Britain against American domination. Their motivation was completely different from the Chinese spies in the USA, and the two cases are in no way comparable.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
These days, I'm more afraid of the law enforcement on campus. I'm not aware of spies braining anyone with a nightstick (and stealing their phone) for recording them, or pepper-spraying someone for sitting on the sidewalk.
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
'for the sole purpose of acquiring our technology,' said former CIA officer S. Eugene Poteat."
Why would they want to go through all that trouble to "Acquire" our technology when we let them build it at the foxconn factories...
You will be six feet deep in horse shit. I admire the Amish and respect their principles greatly, but their way of life would not support the current US population (and much of the current Western population don't have the intelligence, skills or motivation to follow it.)
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
Its too bad they havent stolen the "indoor voice" from us, the Chinese apparently dont realize that if you are sitting next to someone you dont have to shout to be able to convey information.
to the Fifth Columnists infesting our federal government
Given the story about the inability for important cancer research results to be duplicated from a few days ago, those foreigners may just want to check all those research results they've been stealing...
The Russians and Chinese are after our sand. Clearly, we must institute screening procedures at all of the entrances and exits of our beaches, deserts, and playgrounds. We must have more TSA to safeguard our National Sand!
The Brits would copy it but get all the good bits wrong and make the bad bits worse.
Watch any history on the the Aircraft carrier and then post about the Brits. HINT: The US' Naval power has a huge debt to the British.
Also, the things I've been hearing about the F-35; well, the Brits did a bang up job designing the Harrier years before we got to the F-35
It's some FUD! I love you Americans, you're so excitable.
by grifters and traitors.
Are we back at the "hippie communist students" stage again, yes? Someone has taken their regression therapy too far.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
I'm 90% certain this 3000 front companies figure is going to appear in a ton of places now. But where the hell does it come from?
Because S. Eugene Poteat is no longer a CIA agent. He's been out of the CIA for over 10 years. So how does he have access to privileged intel on Chinese intelligence activities? How on earth could he, a man whose intel career ended well before the start of this nonsense, know?
The answer is, by my reckoning, he doesn't. It's just a made up statistic. And there's a pattern behind this guy's statements too: he's long been a proponent of the removal of accountability from the intel services.
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0316-27.htm
There's a certain wing of the US who is pushing the intel agenda. By reproducing the cold war, they get more funding and the unlimited powers they always coveted. S. Eugene Poteat's proper title is 'Intellaine security company employee, and lobbyist for greater surveillance powers without civilian oversight'. Don't buy into their bullshit, unless they show their working.
Classified research doesn't belong in universities. They aren't equipped to handle information controls. It's that simple.
But the FBI, of course, needs more money to investigate this issue. When the deficit is sky high and government budgets are likely to be cut, it is very important to shout loudly about the importance of your agency.
-- Support a free market in the field of government
Compared to Ira*, what is the biggest threat to the American lifestyle? My guess that no *stan or Ira* country is even close to the threat from the 1 bn headed country.
Some people go to universities to learn things, rather than, for example, to get drunk every night of the week.
Sadly, it's true: if you're the superpower, you become the police power, and all wrongdoers in the world hate you.
Russia and China have been fighting us via proxy wars for six decades and it's not going to stop until one party wins.
Futurist Traditionalism
Wow. Lots of people here with their heads up their arses, ranting and raving and foaming at the mouth about "RACIST" this, "RACIST" that, without even the slightest appreciation about how the worlds works.
In your fine, shiny, squeaky clean middle class utopia. people of different races, colours and creeds DO rub along nicely. I see it at work ever day, and saw it at college. Middle class people everywhere have so much in common, a lot of sheltered, privileged middle class kids think that anybody who breaks this mould has something wrong with them. They're usually the same kids out protesting against "racism" and whatnot, not realizing that underclass/working class people of colour despise them, their culture and everything they stand for because they're rich, privileged etc and in their eyes, holding the brown man down. It's the same in Britain, America, France, wherever you go, with large communities of foreign, brown, dirt-poor and very angry people.
The further down the social hierarchy you go, the more sharply divided people are, the more hateful they are, and the more resentful they are, regardless of who they are. Racism, bigotry, mutual suspicion and hatred is a fact of life -- even more so when you're growing up in a bad area or going to a "failing" school. Racism cuts both ways too -- most of the most disgusting bigotry I've seen has been brown-on-brown.
I dislike right-wing skinheads and anti-Semites as much as the next guy, but "anti-racists" and antifas are almost as bad, because they are naiive, and are out "protecting" people who hate them, and would mug them and stove their heads in given half a chance.
Left-wingers, the world is a hateful, unfair place, and crying and jumping down and crying "racist racist RACIST lalaLALALALA" every time somebody says something you disagree with, is not going to change anything. If anything, it drives the hatred into the shadows.
In the latter half of the last century Russia and East Germany had extensive spy networks, probably the biggest in the world. Look what happened to them.
Information acts like just about everything else in the universe. Without constantly applied effort and energy it flows from high concentration to lower concentrations.
We as a society need to recognize that its not possible to have it both ways. We are going to be open, and with that comes acceptance, our ideas, invention, imaginary property, etc will be making their way out in to the world; or we can close down and with concerted effort and expenditure we can keep our secrets.
I think history shows us open *is* better. If for no other reason than closed is actually really hard. We'd have to limit what you can buy/sell/manufacture abroad in ways that would probably be the undoing of many of our biggest business when they suddenly lose their foreign plant investments over night. Locking down our boards will push American wages up but it will also push prices of things like agricultural products typically produced with lots of immigrant and alien labor high enough to stave today's poor and impoverish today's middle class.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
"China also has more than 3,000 front companies in the U.S. 'for the sole purpose of acquiring our technology,' said former CIA officer S. Eugene Poteat"
Does anyone else get the feeling that Mr. Poteat has placed *every* Chinese company in that category?
The TSA says that everyone that has a carry on with more than 3oz of liquid is a terrorist.
So how are we to believe these departments that make crap up to keep the fear machine going?:
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
They know the Chinese are the best students at American tech schools and they probably think if they can ban Chinese from their schools it'll give lil' Whitey jr. a better chance at admissions. Sure, that'll work, it'll also make your schools suck.
If the Chicoms get their hands on the latest cutting edge research into dialectical gender interpretations of the crypto patriarchy we're all f*%#ed!
To spy on hot Asian chicks.
The government will chase you around the world because you might have a copy of a song off the radio but not only will they not investigate industrial spies - they'll charge you with discrimination if you refuse hire aliens.
We all are just misreading the FBI jargon -- s/spies/students/g and we'll be on the same page.
OMG facts!
If the FBI told me the sky was blue i would go out and check it.
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
Any person who says that you could steal a beach with a fork-lift is not qualified to comment on public events.
(A big grain of sand is maybe 0.5 mm in diameter, so 1000 grains of sand is maybe 1/2 a milligram, which isn't much of a beach, but I will give him that as a metaphor.)
Don't forget Rakim from Oakland... :)
http://www.bannedinhollywood.com/computers-are-racist/
You mustn't do school too difficult!
An offtopic sockpuppet using troll -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2773441&cid=39620303
"We need a program of psychosurgery and political control of our society. The purpose is physical control of the mind. Everyone who deviates from the given norm can be surgically mutilated.
The individual may think that the most important reality is his own existence, but this is only his personal point of view. This lacks historical perspective.
Man does not have the right to develop his own mind. This kind of liberal orientation has great appeal. We must electrically control the brain. Some day armies and generals will be controlled by electrical stimulation of the brain."
Dr. Jose Delgado
Director of Neuropsychiatry
Yale University Medical School
Congressional Record No. 26, Vol. 118, February 24, 1974
We don't listen 2 offtopic sockpuppet usin trolls like u -> http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2773441&cid=39620303
Well, duh! That's what tenure is for.
Listen, foreigners should not be permitted to attend U.S. universities at U.S. taxpayer expense.
But, the universities like the colour of their money, so it happens. Those slots should be filled
with Americans. When I attended, at least half (from speaking with them) were foreign nationals.
People mistake these comments as racist, etc., but it's not about the people, it's about our poor
educational standards that allow foreign nationals to replace equally qualified potential
American students from attending. Foreign nations would be crazy to not take advantage of
a handout like this. This is an entitlement that should not exist, an entitlement everyone
should understand is hurting our country and should be, by legislation, ended.
and any other education related things.
we need a mass of dumb people paying the tax.
I heard u say u wrote some books - what's their title & publisher then? Watch him run.
maybe they'll take home values like:
- freedom of the press
- freedom of speech
- the importance of one-citizen, one-vote
- the rights of the individual and the minority to be safe from oppression
and we can see communism in China go away as well.
How could anyone be surprised by hearing that spies have "infiltrated" the U.S. education system? I guess that's what we get for opening our doors to foreigners...
If I had it my way, I'd export every one of them back to their country (i.e. - the Chinese, Russian, etc. students.) Our entire country is falling apart. We can't provide for others of foreign lands when we can't even provide for ourselves.
Send them all home. Open the doors to our citizens. Get back on track with things between now and the next 10 to 20 years, and then we could re-allow foreign students using modified systems and programs to ensure better safeguards.
(I know, I know--too narrow-minded or prejudice or whatever else you can come up with--but that's okay. You're entitled to your opinion.)
FBI infiltrated by psychotic paranoid delusional disorder...
Ron Paul voted against Pi Day. If we simply give up all interest in science and technology, the Chinese will have noting to steal. Just close the universities. Stop inventing stuff. Stop teaching math. That'll do the trick.
That's true. And wealth is inexorably moving from the West to the East for a variety of reasons.
But it doesn't have to be a zero-sum game, as China and us believe it to be.
There. Fixed that for'cha. Not to say there isn't aggressive competition from China, our greatest competitor/adversary for the rest of the 21st century, but it is not like us and the USSR during the Cuban Missile Crisis as many chicken haws in our political establishment want to pander to our ignorant masses (who are more than happy to believe it.)
You are right. It is not a zero-sum game. It does not have to be. And we must not let it be.
But you are wrong (or at least your sentence as constructed gives the wrong impression). Badly formulated perceptions are being made on both sides of the Pacific.
That's why it is important to protect our borders. It's just a little to late now.
Paranoia, the Destroyer.
Stop letting the students in.. problem solved
Universities seem to be full of people who prefer other nations over the USA, for sure, and full of people who idolize dictators, etc. That doesn't necessarily make them spies, and if I was after technology, the universities are often some of the worst places to look for it. Still, China could be happy to waste its money on this, who knows what they think?
In other news today the FBI said that other nations are using our academic institutions to recruit spies. Thank you and have a good night.
Alias, Covert Affairs and several other TV shows have multiple in-school academics working for the CIA. Though I can't pick out any titles, I have read at least three books where the spy was a student or professor at a university.
Clearly this isn't anything new in spy lore, and I would wager there are far less spies in schools now than during the height of the cold war.
If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits
The Chinese don't have to steal our technology, we give it to them, gratis, so that they can build our little electronic gew-gaws that we can't live without. They come over here, learn at our educational institutions, and take what they learn back home. How is that stealing?
Proverbs 21:19
Publish, perish, or pilfer for the Motherland.
And the answer is some humans are more than others scaled by this abstract structure we call business.
Now, THAT will turn anyone who was just beginning to think of doing counter-espionage for US off. Sad. Very sad.
I am a scientist in academia. These people can take whatever they want. Most of it can be found on Google scholar anyway.
when these countries stop believing in evolution.
Ive lived and worked in and around the Big 3 Automotive Companies in Detroit for 20 years. When I started, the majority of the workers were white and black American employees with various race contractors, primarily WASA but an increasing number of middle-eastern decent immigrants, growing with the middle eastern population of the Detroit area. Suddenly, about 2004-2005, Asian, primarily of Chinese decent, contractors began to appear on the scene. Itr has astounded me how many Chinese contractors are at GM, Chrysler and Ford.
Then there are the Chinese Auto companies http://www.chinacarforums.com/chinese_car_manufacturers.html. One look at their logos tell you that they are copying another company. Whether it is Chery (Say Chevy with an "asian" accent") and their "purchase" of the QQ designs through Korea/Daewoo http://www.motorindustry.org/2011/12/15/chery-qq-vs-chevy-spark-copy-theft-the-true-story/ or JAC copying the Ford F-150 http://jalopnik.com/5880837/chinese-automaker-builds-picture-perfect-copy-of-ford-f+150-pickup or Greenwheel copying Renault http://www.leftlanenews.com/chinese-automaker-copies-recently-launched-renault-zoe.html , etc.
How much of this is cooperation? How much is corporate espionage? How much is the Chinese government demanding all third shift production in a "government co-owned production facility" http://www.just-auto.com/news/general-motors-eyes-possible-pirating-of-second-model-paper_id68089.aspx or some other method of the Chinese Government forcing "partner" companies into allowing their sponsored manufacturing companies to leverage shared production lines for both an American and a Chinese model vehicle.
Personally, the infection is systemic and lethal. It isn't a discussion of whether or not it will kill the patient. It is a discussion of when.
I know someone who works in a manufacturing sector for highly specialized parts, China is a customer. It was VERY interesting that they sent a team of 10 to visit their plant to "inspect" and were quite pissed when they weren't given free reign to look around and were only allowed to inspect product in a sanitary room....
Moron "small thinkers"... I would've set up an elaborate ruse of a faked "manufacturing facility", and showed them *everything* inside it but that if they simply copied what they saw, it would only result in disastrously flawed products. And if the Chinese asked for an answer, tell them it's not the manufacturing facility, but instead is the manufacturer's know-how, that resulted in quality products.
Truly, we are now living in the End Times.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
But I was not an academic so I did nothing. Then the ecomony dun broke and them thar plants started dying becuz we used Brawndo instead of toilet water in our sprayers.
And there was nobody to fix any of it.
Europe is going through what the US went through 200 years ago, only European governments have histories going back a millennium so it's harder to create a new federalist government that governs all the states (of Europe). In the U.S., the absence of strong federal government under the articles of confederation made them realize early on that they were doing it wrong, so they drafted the Constitution. They were able to do that because they had just formed the weaker large government a few years ago, so there was less political resistance than there would have been otherwise. And they had the impetus to form a common government because they had just allied against the King, so they were used to functioning together when they first became governments.
Europe was more of a mish-mash that evolved through feudalism and the gunpowder revolution and the infantry revolution, the rise of nationalism and religious wars, etc..., so it took it longer. WW2 provided a common enemy that led to a desire to create stronger international institutions after the failure of the League of Nations to prevent the war. This led to more international cooperation, over time, which--together with a better understanding of economic theory--led to opening markets and opening borders, and the European Union.
-- IANAL, this isn't legal advice, and definitely isn't legal advice for you. Also, Squee!
That's true. And wealth is inexorably moving from the West to the East for a variety of reasons.
But it doesn't have to be a zero-sum game, as China and we believe it to be.
There. Fixed that for'cha. Not to say there isn't aggressive competition from China ...
And I fixed it for you!
Capitalism generally espouses the view that wealth can be created.
Communism generally espouses the view that wealth can only be transferred.
Some may say, "But Communism is not an economic system!" or "Capitalism is not a political system!" But Communism absolutely informs the economic system and governmental philosophies, and that is the difference.
That's not to say some in the West also don't view it as zero-sum, or that those in China who support the notion of "Capitalism with Chinese characteristics", as it's called, don't believe wealth can be created, or that wealth isn't indeed being transferred in part from West to East.
But still, this dichotomy in philosophies between the political and/or economic systems associated with each is the fundamental difference.
That said, Schrodinger's Cat: Wanted Dead AND Alive. :-)
Who wants to LAN party! It's BYOLC (Bring Your Own Launch Codes).
But not against China. Do you know why? China would teach US a lesson that's for sure.
shows that communism was right: wealth is only being transferred. Upward.
No, the Romans conquered Greece and stole all their academics wholesale. But Greece had the last laugh because all these academics captured by the Romans became tutors who raised the next generation of Roman elite to in the image of Greece. Roman mythology and culture became Greek in all but name only.
Apert from the fact that the Romans conquered Greece that is just plain wrong. By the time the Roman legions conquered Greece the Romans were already thoroughly hellenized. The nations and tribes of Italy tribes became hellenized during the Homeric age through contact with Greek colonies. This happened way before the Romans even existed as anything more than a small tribal group and certainly before they built their empire. The Romans became hellenized primarily through the Etruscans (a hellenized Italian people) and later through their naval allies which were mostly Greek city states. Sending your children to be educated in Greece or hiring a Greek tutor was fashionable among the Roman patrician class centuries before the legions ever marched off to conquer Greece.
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
Or did you forget that it was a NATO operation, I.e. North Atlantic. You know, the ocean just off the USA?
There's HBGary who got caught in the act doing it:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/02/16/945768/-UPDATED:-The-HB-Gary-Email-That-Should-Concern-Us-All
PERTINENT QUOTES/EXCERPTS:
"According to an embedded MS Word document found in one of the HBGary emails, it involves creating an army of sockpuppets, with sophisticated "persona management" software that allows a small team of only a few people to appear to be many, while keeping the personas from accidentally cross-contaminating each other. Then, to top it off, the team can actually automate some functions so one persona can appear to be an entire Brooks Brothers riot online... And all of this is for the purposes of infiltration, data mining, and (here's the one that really worries me) ganging up on bloggers, commenters and otherwise "real" people to smear enemies and distort the truth... "
than dead.
Yours In Arizona,
K. Trout, Illegal Alien
Up here in Canada there is a real scandal about the F35 aircraft and the costs associated with it and Canada seemingly going ahead no matter what.
One political pundit bluntly stated (I was astonished), that the need for the F35 is just a rationalization. Likely the US went to its allies, and said we would like you help in controlling and containing China's growth and ambitions over the next 20-30 years. However they cannot actually SAY that politically, so countries that are apart of this group are just trying to come up with fake rationalizations as to why they need this state of the art next generation stealth fighter.
Because realistically looking at the conflicts we have been involved with in the last 20 years, at which point were we every facing comparable technology. Have we even had a jet shot down that wasn't attributable to just overly complex systems, maintenance, or age? I mean even the US, in all the wars they have been involved with since the 90's were they ever in a situation where the opposing force had any kind of air superiority?
Anyway I just thought it a bit scary, that someone was looking at this transaction and seeing perhaps conversations looking at the long term future.
Orbital mechanics? Old technology, no secrets there. Remote underwater vehicles? Used by oil companies from many nations.
At least China is doing useful stuff. The US is using its top brainpower in social networking and financial engineering. Who goes to a good college in the US to study production engineering, and then into industry to set up production lines in industry? That's a common career path in both Chinas, South Korea, and Japan.
The Franco-Prussian war led to Paris being taken over by communards for two months in 1871.
World War I led to Russia being taken over by communists, in addition to other worrying developments for the powers that be (Hungary established a Soviet Republic until it was invaded and defeated, naval and Spartacus uprisings in Germany, Nivelle mutinies in France, Bienno rosso in the early 1920s in Italy).
World war II led to a communist bloc eastward "from Stettin in the Baltic to Trieste in the Adriatic" as Churchill put it. It also more-or-less led to China and North Korea becoming communist. People tend to forget communist influence among the working class in Western Europe - the PCF was the largest political party in France into the mid 1950s, and the PCI came close to winning elections in Italy into the mid 1970s, the "right" included an Italian Socialist Party with a hammer and sickle in its banner. And then of course the decolonization movements from everywhere from Cuba to Indochina to Northern Ireland to Algeria and the rest of Africa.
The feudal, and later capitalist, powers in Europe deciding to go to war with one another has always strengthened the left. Liberal opinion is now war-tired and so forth primarily due to this. As the above poster said, bombing the Serbs and the like did not creep into this supposed war-weariness. Yeltsin bombing his own parliament was hailed by liberals and social democrats, and of course the right, as a triumph of democracy.
The only wisdom that has been obtained by the ruling powers, is that Mario Monti and Lucas Papademos probably both realize that if they tried to set their countries to war against one another, their populations might take up the words of that old song and shoot the generals on their own side. The ruling powers realize war might possibly put their head on the chopping block, and that's the main reason they've become peaceniks, at least amongst other Europeans in the club.
A friend of mine once told me when he was on sabbatical for furthering his education, there are many Chinese student spies in our education system and they have to be on their guard at all times. IMO, as long as we have lax immigration/resident policies in place, this will be common place so it is of the utmost importance to be aware of spies who have not only their interest in mind but whose ultimate goal is to do us harm.
For all we know our government may know who most of these pseudo students are and are conducting counter intelligence. God, I hope so.
I'd hate to see Gitmo overcrowded. Long live Gitmo!
: )
The Zen master Ryokan lived a simple life in a little hut high on a mountain. One evening while Ryokan was out walking, a thief made the arduous climb up the mountain, only to find there was nothing in the hut worth stealing.
Ryokan returned and found the thief. "You have taken great pains to come a long way to visit me," he said, "and you should not return empty-handed. Please let me give you my clothes as a gift."
The thief was confused and bewildered, but he took Ryokan's clothes and climbed back down the mountain.
Ryokan left the hut and sat naked, watching the moon. "That poor fellow," he mused, "I wish I could have given him this beautiful moon."
People are welcome to share all my knowledge. I don't care if they are brown, yellow, or pink with polka dots. Hoarding knowledge is a practice of the weak and foolish, it's how you can easily identify them. Smart, strong minds have new thoughts every day.
I remember back in graduate school I had an officemate from China. He went on a driving vacation and came back with a several rolls of film to develop. I happened to see his photographs when they were printed: power transmission lines, bridges, dams, refineries, you get the idea. I asked where the photos were of him and his friends. There were a few, like the one with his buddies in the corner and a large construction crane dominating the image. I asked what these photos were for. "This is America" I was told. You know what else was America? He got a speeding ticket in Montana and didn't know where he'd get the money to pay it. But when he found out it couldn't be enforced in California, he culturally adapted very quickly.
...universities are an 'ideal place' for foreign intelligence services 'to find recruits...
Gosh. Who'd have thunk?
"It's..."
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Was a honey trap for a senior US politician - though doing what she did under her own name when it was blindingly obvious that dad was a KGB resident took some balls (so to speak).
You do wonder if MI5 keep an eye out for any pretty girls with eastern European accents into 40k in Cheltnham (home of GCHQ)
My first thought was "duh" my second was "so what?"
And why immigrants always seem to want to go to these schools.
Let's be realistic though, it's not difficult for the FBI or anyone else to recruit on campuses as well and counter spy.
Well, I learned something new today in English as my second language ;)
Come on to sustain double digit inflation year over year you need someone to pay the bills and spies pay full out of state tuition with a smile on their faces. Of course universities want them to enroll.
This is just way #2432 that universities are determined to destroy themselves and their reputations as a reputable societal institution.
Don't bother teaching- leave that to your TAs who are undeveloped and overly ambitious and aggressive personalities who learn to hate their unpaid teaching duties and the students which are the source of that labor.
Jack tuition up five times the rate of inflation and more for decades on end because, hey, you could be working in the private sector making TEN TIMES this much.....
Never ever evolve anything you do in terms of pedagogy and violently resist all efforts at changes to the lowest-effort sage-on-the-stage model that you've milked for , what is it now? Going on three centuries?
Harass and dominate ordinary unsophisticated students who show up to your campuses by foisting on them draconic intellectual property "agreements" for anything they invent while undergraduates "using the schools computers or network"
Keep building glass and granite monuments to yourselves and your sports teams while underfunding that "teaching thing" society expects you to do
Please . Importing spies that will in time wreck our economy? Hey man.. I'm gonna get mine while the gettin's good. Fire up those J1s baby... American students are sooo.... yesterday...
The highest levels of government have been taken over by traitors who ignore the Constitutional limits placed upon government power. This is a far greater threat than any number of spies on campus.
The 2012 Defense Authorization Act not only 'legally' removes all natural and civil rights from all humans, but declares that the US government no longer recognizes any country's sovereignty.
as another way to deal with out of control tuition
"as China and us believe it to be" vs "as China and we believe it to be"
A trick is to break it down without the "and", so you end up with "us believe it to be" or "we believe it to be".
Another slightly different example "give it to them or us" vs "give it to them or we". In this case you'd break it down to "give it to us" and that would be correct.
I'm not sure I'm explaining it well (I just woke up), so I hope this is useful and not confusing.
sr
His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
"This paper is unclassified and fulfills part of the FBI's goal of building awareness with public and private entities about counterintelligence risks and national security issues."
"...the FBI concludes that only a small percentage of foreign students or visiting professors are actively working at the behest of their government or other organizations."
IIRC, W.J.Clinton was a Rhodes Scholar, Prolly sent by C.I.A. to infiltrate British academia for exploitation by corrupt running dog capitalists.
"The FBI is mandated to protect the nation from internal and external threats."
AFAICT this is a PR release from the FBI to remind people that they used to deal with this shit, long before the DHS was cloned from some paranoid phreak's nocturnal emission. A big dose of FUD from the Department of Paranoia. Or maybe just a nice Mission Structure Outline for any under-capitalized spy organization that hadn't already thought of this stuff decades ago.
They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
...And it's so much more plausible than an invasion from Cuba.
Wow. Only in the context of the land of the free is such a consultation a safe one to answer. This question/answer would get you a sentence in North Korea, would get you censored, marginalised and fired in today's china, might get you killed in Russia ... The conditions of realpolitik are not set by anonymous wankers on slashdot. To be absolutely clear, the ends often do 'justify' the means; the idea that we should acquiesce to be impoverished in the name of 'fairness' is ridiculous and diametrically opposed to the survival of ANY entity, individual, corporate or national. We have evolved to protect and support our kin and extended kin. This means we give them preference over the other(s). Seriously, fuck the other(s) - they will return the complement given a chance.