Best Buy Scans Drivers License For Returns — No More Allowed For 90 Days

rullywowr writes "A customer with a defective Blu-Ray disc returns to the Best Buy store where he purchased it. After having his driver's license scanned into the system, he is now banned from returning/exchanging goods for 90 days. This is becoming one of the latest practices big-box stores are using to limit fraud and abuse of the return system — for example, the people who buy a giant TV before the big game and then return it on Monday. Opponents feel this return-limiting concept has this gone too far, including the harvesting of your personal data."

Comments

When people abuse prices go up

[CoderExpert]

It's quite obvious that people are abusing the system and that results in increased prices for everyone. As someone who doesn't abuse that, I welcome the move so we honest people get things cheaper. Screw those who ruin things for everyone else.

Re:When people abuse prices go up

[Soporific]

I can see this as a good thing if it's for similar or big ticket items, but a bad thing if it's for DVD's, etc. -DNRTFA

~S

Re:When people abuse prices go up

[Ferzerp]

You assume that the store has the right to refuse a return if you refuse to provide this information or if you're a frequent shopper that has more than one purchase of faulty goods. The agreement with the store is to exchange your money for a working product. If the product doesn't work, and the store refuses to refund or exchange it, they may have issues.

They may have a leg to stand on if it were refunds only, but the summary specifically includes exchanges in to this mix.

Re:When people abuse prices go up

[kidgenius]

And do you have a copy of your receipt that shows that the store and you made the agreement to which you refer? No? Then too bad. Otherwise, they don't need your info, and they aren't saying they need it. For instance, Target only uses your DL when you don't have receipts.

Re:When people abuse prices go up

[Githaron]

It's quite obvious that people are abusing the system and that results in increased prices for everyone. As someone who doesn't abuse that, I welcome the move so we honest people get things cheaper. Screw those who ruin things for everyone else.

The policy is unnecessarily invasive and it will easily hurt legitimate customers. While it might be rare, it is completely possible that a legitimate customer will purchase at least two items in a 90 day window and more than one of them ends up being defective.

They need to find a better way to prevent fraud.

Re:When people abuse prices go up

[Anonymous Coward]

So if your second TV is also defective, you can't return it because this 90 day delay outlasts the defective product return time.

There are situations where this is a bad idea, but I have nothing against trying to crack down on the 'free rental' or 'free replacement' scams that drive up prices for honest buyers. The proeblem is, I don't know if there is any solution that won't have a greater detrimental effect on honest buyers than on scammers. Repeat scammers should be relatively easy to recognize in some data mining, so you can give them restricted return rights, maybe that would be the best way to handle it.

I'm also curious just how much product is stolen through swapped return scams, I've heard it discussed, but nothing resembling an official dollar value.

Re:When people abuse prices go up

[magarity]

As someone who doesn't abuse that, I welcome the move so we honest people get things cheaper

Are you someone who might honestly need to return two items at two different times in the course of three months?

A number of less draconian methods come to mind: A) restocking fee for opened items that are not defective. B) Issuing a second (...nth) refund via check mailed from the refund processing center in Mongolia.

But returns are only allowed for 30 days, so buy a second item within 59 days of your first return and you're stuck with it and that sounds rather nasty for a business in the US. Of course, it's all relative. I lived a couple of years in China and once purchased there, it's yours. Nobody takes returns in the first place.

Re:When people abuse prices go up

[cpu6502]

Well said.

If the item is genuinely defective, stores have credit card agreements that REQUIRE them to accept the item for return or exchange. No exceptions.

Even if the store still refuses, you can just mail the item back to the store, use delivery confirmation, and then provide the DC number to your credit card. You will get refunded the money. And the store will lose the money regardless of any 90 day or 3-strike policy.

BTW this is why I like amazon and ebay/paypal - no hassles. Though I've received a lot of junk over the years from dishonest sellers, so far I've not lost any money (except for return postage). Just recently I bought a used Wii that was never delivered and amazon gave me a $105 gift card only two days later. I already spent that cash on another item (kindle w/ web browser).

Re:When people abuse prices go up

[mcavic]

The store may not have to take a return, but then I can go to my news station and report my experience with the store. Honoring the return would be cheaper than negative publicity.

It's true that the manufacturer is responsible for their products. But then again, I'm not doing business with the manufacturer. I'm doing business with the store.

Re:When people abuse prices go up

[Anonymous Coward]

The guy did A LOT OF RETURN ACTIVITY:

Peel said he had several returns after Christmas, then a few other returns and exchanges — all with a receipt. That, apparently, was enough to put him on The Retail Equation's most-wanted list and Best Buy's no-returns-or-exchanges-for-90-days list.

The Retail Equation says its consumer profiles use frequency of returns, dollar amounts, whether a return-receipt was involved and purchase history. It does not use information on age, race, gender, nationality, marital status or whether the consumer is a Yankees or Red Sox fan.

Re:When people abuse prices go up

[Anonymous Coward]

That depends on the jurisdiction. My province has consumer laws that specifically require goods be sold in merchantable quality, and that defects be corrected by the seller within X days. If I buy a defective TV from Best Buy, they are 100% responsible for correcting the situation. This may be an exchange though, IIRC supporting refunds isn't mandatory.

Re:When people abuse prices go up

[dgatwood]

Actually, stores aren't required to take returns...

At least in California, that's not true. Under sections 1792-1795.8 of California Civil Code, unless the seller explicitly disclaims a warranty by attaching something to the product itself that explicitly states that the product is being sold as-is with no warranty. Otherwise, as a general rule, the seller must accept the product back for a minimum of 30 days, by law.

Re:When people abuse prices go up

[Galestar]

Actually, stores aren't required to take returns

Not according to the laws where I live - any probably any contract law where you live. Buying a product from a merchant is a contract, and said contract includes an implicit understanding that the product is of merchantable quality. If the product is defective, the contract is void and the price you paid for it must be returned.

Re:When people abuse prices go up

[slack_justyb]

but a bad thing if it's for DVD's

I think the problem is that people forget consumer protection laws. If something does not work out of box it fails merchantability (see UCC Article 2 subsection 2-314 paragraph 2 for a clearer picture.)

DVDs can and do have manufactoring flaws, I reject the notion that exercising the right to merchantability requires the party to enter into agreements with third party services. I can see where this kind of monitoring service would be great for items that are still in working condition, but if it is broke, the person who sold it to you, unless stated "as-is", has the implied duty to repair and if it cannot be repaired, replace the item in question.

Consumers should reject this whole notion on bad-out-of-box items, especially Blu-Rays and DVDs.

Re:When people abuse prices go up

[InvisiBill]

And do you have a copy of your receipt that shows that the store and you made the agreement to which you refer? No? Then too bad. Otherwise, they don't need your info, and they aren't saying they need it. For instance, Target only uses your DL when you don't have receipts.

Except that they are indeed saying that. Return & Exchange Policy

1. Include all original packing materials, manuals and accessories
2. Bring your receipt or packing slip and a valid photo ID.

When you return or exchange an item in store, we require a valid photo ID.

Re:When people abuse prices go up

[Keith Mickunas]

Amazon provides you a return label. You seal up the box, put on the label, drop it at a UPS Store or some other such place. No lines, less fuss.

Granted for me there's a UPS Store on my way to work, so it's easier than most other stores, but even if that wasn't the case, the lack of waiting in line is a plus. Particularly at Fry's, where every return has to be approved by multiple people, and sometimes you have to take a form back to the register to get your actual money or credit back. While Fry's is good about taking just about anything back for any reason, the process is a nuisance.

Re:When people abuse prices go up

[Matheus]

I'm glad AC's comment got modded into visibility. He's apparently the only one who RTFA. This is not an across the board policy for all purchased merchandise. This is a "probation" of sorts that people who fail the analytics get put into to reduce at least the frequency of fraud.

As stated in the article they accept over 99% of all returns. Only people who show a pattern of potentially illegitimate returns get put on this limitation.

A lot of people are crying foul for a variety of reasons... maybe this isn't the best method but it's about all they have and they are literally losing Billions to a pretty damn widespread abuse of their extremely friendly return policy... so give them a little credit for trying. Other policies such as well advertised prohibitions on returning Big Screen TVs around super bowl time have been in place for years. (Yes sir... you can purchase a TV right now but we're just saying that we will charge you an automatic restocking fee if you return it no matter the condition or reason.) those methods were not sufficient.

Best Buy has a lot of problems to fix not the least of which is the decimation of their business model by internet retailers. That being said there are a lot of people who are going to legitimately miss them if they do go out of business. (There goes your free "demo room" and "rental shop" or just place I can grab something that I need "right now" not shipping time.) Something to consider in the midst of all this Best Buy bashing.

Re:When people abuse prices go up

[bvimo]

>Bring your receipt or packing slip and a valid photo ID.
How is that requirement interpreted?

Bring your (receipt OR packing slip) AND (a valid photo ID).
or
Bring your (receipt) OR (packing slip AND a valid photo ID).

Re:When people abuse prices go up

[uncqual]

While Fry's is good about taking just about anything back for any reason, the process is a nuisance.

Although always read the return policy carefully. Unfortunately the guy in front of me a couple years ago apparently hadn't done so before "renting" a portable air conditioner from Fry's for a couple days during a heat wave. He wasn't at all happy when Fry's refused to take it back.

As a customer who doesn't do such things, I was happy to see them enforce their policy as every time a customer "rents" via buy/return, it raises prices for everyone else. (I think they would have exchanged it if it was defective which seems fair enough).

Re:When people abuse prices go up

[kagaku]

I'm sorry, but this is abuse. I wish there was an easy way to try before you buy on many products (there isn't), and I understand the logic behind what you're doing - but it's still abuse of the returns system that many stores have in place. You're buying an item at full price, trying it out and returning it. Great, but even if you return it with all parts and in like-new condition the store cannot sell it as new any longer. They'll either need to send it back to the manufacturer or resell it as an open box item (I see Best Buy do this all the time). Sure, you bought another headset from them - but the $50 headset you bought and returned can now only be sold open box for $30.

People really wonder why stores are getting more strict on returns?

Re:When people abuse prices go up

[Xeno man]

Actually they don't say. "send to us for replacement", they say, "call us for support." Do you know why they do that? The reason is because most of the there is nothing wrong with the product. People can't be bothered to read set up guides or manuals and just figure that it must be broken. People expect to open a box and start using something not realizing that there may be some packing tape or plastic over a battery terminal that need to be removed.

A phone call to the company that MAKES THE PRODUCT will give people more information than some sales guy that only maybe know a little about every product. Maybe the sales guys favors another brand and his fix is to return the device and sell another brand that he does know. Calling the manufacture helps keep the sale instead of loosing it.

Re:When people abuse prices go up

[bmo]

and they are literally losing Billions to a pretty damn widespread abuse of their extremely friendly return policy

Citation needed. Citation needed to prove that bad management practices are not the real cause of the 1.7 billion dollar loss.

That being said there are a lot of people who are going to legitimately miss them if they do go out of business

They earned the epithet "Worst Buy" through customer abuse and stupid sales practices. So much of what has happened is self inflicted. Do you remember when they fired all their knowledgeable long-term floor sales staff because they were "too expensive?" Go ahead, walk into any Best Buy and try to find a sales clerk that actually knows what he/she is selling and isn't trying to be a bullshit artist. They are few and far between.

Return customers (not customers that return things) are a business' bread and butter. Best Buy went on the "quick cash now" binge to "satisfy investors" while ignoring the long term implications of pissing off the customers. Sure, people are using online retailers. They wouldn't if the brick&mortar service didn't outright suck.

There are electronics retailers that don't suck. One is MicroCenter. You can walk in, talk to knowledgeable sales people, get what you want for a decent price (sometimes cheaper than Newegg), and not hard sold on hundred-dollar HDMI cables and extended warrantees. And I find myself continuing to go back there. Repeatedly.

Best Buy *can* turn the ship around, but they have to abandon the practices that got them to this point to do so. Most businesses in this situation can't or won't because few in upper management are willing to accept the fact they fucked up.

--
BMO

Re:When people abuse prices go up

[TheRealGrogan]

Most of the manufacturers that sell to big box retailers take the returns back from the retailers no questions asked, too. It's just the price of doing business with big retailers. It works out in the wash.

I first learned this when I was younger... I had a job at a factory owned by a popular carpet cleaner/vacuum/sweeper manufacturer. My job was to manage the returns from Canadian retailers. At first I was doing what I thought was right. They entrusted me to do a job. I had places on the forms I was given to reject the returns, and give a reason. Most of the time the units were just used and jam packed full of dirt, and the reason for the return was "doesn't work". Obviously, it did work. Anyway, the head office got on my ass (yes, the suit talked to me himself on the phone) and basically I wasn't reeaaallly supposed to do that unless they were just some joe blow appliance store. When it was a big retailer I was to just process the returns no questions asked and salvage what I could. Once I received them, they were mine to deal with... clean them up for sale as "seconds" or "reconditioned" or keep any useful parts. It was a big "whatever" to the company.

These big box retailers have a lot of clout and get treated differently than smaller stores. They don't need to give people a hard time about returns.

Re:When people abuse prices go up

[Jiro]

What if the people at the store don't understand the customer's complaint about the item?

I once returned a CD/MP3 player (back when people still used such things instead of digital MP3 players) to Fry's because resuming an MP3 at greater than 256 seconds would resume it at (time mod 256). Anyone with even the slightest bit of computer training should have been able to figure out that the firmware was saving only one byte of resume data and that therefore every one of that model on the shelf would have the same problem. The customer service droids did not comprehend this and made me exchange it with another one anyway, which I had to then return (I did get a refund then).

If that had been Best Buy, I'd have been out a restocking fee. And I can think of lots of other cases. (I've never tried asking a customer service droid which HDTVs accept 240P signals and therefore can show Playstation 1 games. But I doubt that if I returned a TV for being unable to do this they would do anything but hook it up to the store TV feed and say "see, it works fine".)

Re:When people abuse prices go up

[rolfwind]

What if the people at the store don't understand the customer's complaint about the item?

I once returned a CD/MP3 player (back when people still used such things instead of digital MP3 players) to Fry's because resuming an MP3 at greater than 256 seconds would resume it at (time mod 256). Anyone with even the slightest bit of computer training should have been able to figure out that the firmware was saving only one byte of resume data and that therefore every one of that model on the shelf would have the same problem. The customer service droids did not comprehend this and made me exchange it with another one anyway, which I had to then return (I did get a refund then).

You explain to them, in English: "This item doesn't seem to work correctly. When I pause any song a little longer than 4 minutes and start it back up again, it starts at a seemingly random place." Then demonstrate it to them.

If they insist on an exchange, insist that the new unit doesn't have this flaw as it's unacceptable. If need be, try it in the store and most of them will realize it's better to give back the money than to keep opening new packages. Never go into geek speak with muggles if you want them to understand you.

They're on their way out anyways

[rmac1813]

..just another reason to go to Frys. Until they cross the line .

License scan?

[smittyoneeach]

License scan?
Listen, man:
Call Holder, and
Say it's voting, man.
Burma Shave

Re:License scan?

[tripleevenfall]

Obviously, returning Blu Rays is more dangerous than casting a fake vote.

Re:License scan?

[Ranger96]

Way more people abusing return policies than casting fake votes in person.

Well gee..

[Tridus]

This kind of anti-customer behavior couldn't possibly have anything to do with Best Buy crashing and burning, could it?

Nah. I'm sure the MBAs must have thought the policy through carefully.

Best Buy fails again

[Golgafrinchan]

With all the problems Best Buy has been having recently, it's hard to believe that they think this will solve anything.

A customer who knows they can't return a defective item at Best Buy will simply go shopping somewhere else like Walmart, Target, or Amazon, who have more lenient return policies and/or are just more customer-friendly altogether.

I don't expect this particular decision will hurt too much, but with these kinds of stupid decisions Best Buy will be out of business within 5 years.

This only affects people flagged as abusive

[Megor1]

If you read the article it says that only people who have a history that indicates possible return abuse are given this type of ban. The service works across multiple stores to find people who use retail stores like free rental places. The article fails to mention what else the guy had been doing. If he has a history of buying and returning items then I see no problem with them cutting him off from abusing their store.

Re:fraud

[SJHillman]

If it's defective or was misrepresented on the package or by the store, then yes. If you decided you just didn't want it after all then they should have no obligation to take it back.

Gratuitous Python Reference

[Picass0]

Customer: Look! I came here to make a return.
Best Buy: Oh! I'm sorry, this is abuse.
Customer: Oh I see, that explains it.
Best Buy: No, you want room 12A next door.
Customer: I see - sorry.
Best Buy: Not at all. Stupid git.

It sucks for the honest people

[crazyjj]

for example, the people who buy a giant TV before the big game and then return it on Monday.

I used to have a roommate that would pull shit like that all the time. He treated stores like his free rental services. It really pissed me off, not just because it was dishonest (and that was bad enough), but also because I always knew it would come back on the rest of us who DIDN'T do that--either with higher prices or stricter return policies. It sucks that the decent always end up paying the price for the pricks out there. But it seems almost a given that there are always bad apples looking to spoil the barrel for everyone.

BTW, my roomate's favorite target was Walmart. They had a very liberal return policy. But eventually they caught on to him. One day he went to return something and they called the manager out, who told him that this would not only be his last return, but also his last visit to the store. He then had the audacity to come back home bitching about how it was this grave injustice (as if I hadn't noticed him repeatedly scamming them). What a guy.

Re:How is this legal?

[Frosty Piss]

A lot of people seem to operate under an ethic of "whatever I can get away with".

Yes, that seems to be Best Buy's position...

Returns policy

[hawguy]

Here's the returns policy found on their website:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Help-Topics/Returning-Online-Purchases/pcmcat260800050014.c?id=pcmcat260800050014

Returns Tracking
When you return or exchange an item in store, we require a valid photo ID. Some of the information from your ID may be stored in a secure database used to track returns and exchanges. Based on return/exchange patterns, some customers will be warned that subsequent purchases will not be eligible for returns or exchanges for 90 days. Customers who are warned or have been denied an exchange/return may request a copy of their Return Activity Report by calling 1-800-652-2331 or by mail at P.O. Box 51373, Irvine, CA 92619-1373. Please be prepared to provide your transaction ID, ID number, full name, address and phone number.

Valid forms of ID accepted are: US, Canadian or Mexican Driver's License, US State ID, Canadian Province ID, Matricula Consular, US Military ID, Passport, US Laser Visa, or US Permanent Resident Card.

It sounds like only certain customers will be subject to the 90 day policy, depending on their return history.