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Ask Slashdot: My Company Wants Me To Astroturf, Should I?
An anonymous reader writes "Posting as AC for obvious reasons. The company I work for put an app in an app store. The marketing people think it isn't selling very well, so they sent out an email asking people to get on all their social media sites and friend or like the app to build up traffic. The thing is, most of the employees have not used the app, but we are being asked to say that we like it. We just saw stories about companies not being allowed to ask employees or interview candidates for access to social sites, but what does it mean when a company asks employees to astroturf? Will the marketing or HR people look at who has astroturfed, and who has not at raise time? How would you deal with this?"
Things are that bad at RIM and AppWorld, eh?
Look, if Thorsten wants you to astroturf, he should at least offer some examples.
Trolling is a art,
liars are liars.
there is only one answer ...
We are building a fighting force of extraordinary magnitude. We forge our tradition in the spirit of our ancestors. You have our gratitude
Putting the obvious moral issues aside, how loyal to this company are you? If the answer is "not very" then I think you already know what you should be doing (i.e, looking for another place of employment). If, however, you are a loyal employee, then suck it up & just do what they ask...finding a place to work that you actually enjoy is tough, especially in this economy.
Whatever happened to advertising a product? Spend money to make money and all that jazz.
Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
Can't say that I would do it.
As a fellow anonymous, representing the big E and the A, we get it in our inboxes daily to astroturf our products.
This seems to be a common practice nowadays, and I guess it shows you have some faith in your product. I have nothing against it as long as you like what you are doing. If you don't like astroturfing for your stuff, then don't.
What concerns me though is that you seem to be not very keen on this app. Care to elaborate why?
And therefore you can set whatever terms you want. They are in effect asking you to store company materials at your house. You cannot be required to provide the company storage. And if you do, you are able to be compensated. Your online property is no different.
If they want marketing, let them hire a marketing company.
Note that the site's terms of use may prohibit some or all actions as well.
Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
I worked at a company where we were actively told to astroturf. It was a bad sign because the product sucked and instead doing something about the criticism, they buried their head in the sand. The criticism was completely well founded. My advice is to not worry about astroturfing and start looking for a new job. Your management isn't looking to fix problems, just cover over them.
Well, people should be a bit more committed, and see the app, since it seems to be a big deal. This is probably also the fault of management for not engaging the employees more. Other than that, there's nothing wrong for putting out a good word for your employer. I'm sure every company does something similar, even if just by giving out shirts with the company logo. There's a fine line, and I'm sure plenty of companies cross over to the "wrong" side, but at least for me, it's not terrible, and to be expected actually.
please excuse my apathy
The idea is that you appear anonymous, but that appearance of annonimity is actually what keeps anyone from knowing if anyone in the company is contributing. Your safety is guaranteed thanks to the thumb trap.
^ Probably Sarcasm...
It sounds like you're probably misinterpreting what they said. Try the app and if you like it, post about it, and disclose your relationship as "working for the company, but not developing the product". No harm no foul. They have no way to track this.
Go with the flow until you get a new job. Be able to pay your bills, but plan your exit strategy now. Take lower pay to switch if you can get by for a while on a lower salary (mortgages etc.).
Get copies of the emails asking for the dirty deeds and hide them at home in case.
I've worked for slimeballs also before, so I feel for you.
Good luck.
Table-ized A.I.
A few startups ago, the marketing teams entire plan was "lean on your personal social networks". They'd have been better off standing outside handing out flyers.
If you like the app and think it's useful then it doesn't hurt to promote it a little. If it's just some crap, then don't bother - you'll just desensitize your friends and contacts.
Just saying "I'm working on app X, it's going pretty well!" is subtle and non-annoying, curious people will check it out.
Anyway, a company asking employees to lean heavily on friends/family for promotion is a sure-fire sign of a failed marketing vision in my book, a problem in the business side of the house.
No. Shilling is worse than trolling in my mind. If you must hype your product, at least be honest enough to let people know you're an employee.
Free Martian Whores!
...should I do what Group A tells me to do or what Group B tells me to do.
Celebs do it all the time on public TV. (promote products they probably don't use let alone like).
Tell your friends you're astroturfing outside of the social networking sites and move on with your life.
I do not respond to cowards. Especially anonymous ones.
When marketing asks the employees to 'like' something to push up it's numbers you know they're doing a bad job of things... or it's a lousy app. If you get fired for not 'liking' an app you know this isn't a company that values it's employees, it's just a people factory.
Do they have a catalog of all the employees social media links? How would they know who did advertise and who didn't?
Try the app. See if it's really worth saying good things about. If so, I'd go ahead and praise it as deserved. If not, send a message to the sales/QA/service department as appropriate saying why you can't promote the app. Keep a copy of that message just in case you have to show that you were fired for raising an ethical concern.
Of course, encourage others to do the same, and mention your plan to superiors. They might just admire your behavior, and suggest it to more of the company. Few managers really want to be the guy to let a bad PR situation loose, so they might jump at the chance to prove they're more ethical than that nasty sales department - especially if the app is actually decent, and there's a good chance it'll get astroturfed anyway.
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
You could always try the app yourself then give it an honest review. If you genuinely like it, it's not astroturfing.
If you don't like it, you could consider feeding that back to the developers as that may reveal more fundamentally why it's not selling well.
So are we just talking about clicking the "Like" button on Facebook? That doesn't sound terrifically evil. It's not unusual for people to "like" something they don't like, and so I wouldn't even really consider it dishonest. Like I "like" one of my friend's websites, but... you know, it's just because it's my friend's site. My work has asked me to make use my LinkedIn Profile shows that I work where I do, in case the company gets looked up.
Also, are they simply asking you to do it, or are they somehow monitoring everyone's accounts to make sure they do it, and then threatening some kind of response if you don't "like" their product? If they're just asking, and you don't want to do it, then don't do it.
This doesn't seem like a serious problem.
If you like it, tell your friends. If you don't, tell your coworkers why their app sucks.
My advice is, don't lie. Try out the app and, if you like it, promote it, but don't lie about it.
If the company's employees aren't familiar with the Ap (which seems strange as it is something they are all getting at least some of their salary on) shouldn't this be indication one for the marketeers that it isn't very good? Maybe it's for an obscure market or target customer, but I would still think that people had opinions on it if it was useful in any way.
When I think back to the various companies at which I have worked, *everybody* had an opinion of the company's products and generally used them.
If the majority of employees have no experience with it, I would think the most positive action the company could take would be to fire the Ap's product manager because if the Ap can't generate any interest in the company, then clearly it's NFG.
myke
Mimetics Inc. Twitter
Why do you work for a company who's products you don't use? Is the app too expensive, or just not something that is suited to your life? Frankly if neither you nor your colleagues use a product your company created, why does the company think anyone will use it? If the product is good, but you just don't have a use for it, I don't see any ethical issues in promoting it. But if it's simply not a good product then I would probably not promote it, after all it's your personal reputation that is at stake. I'd also start looking for another job.
How would you deal with this?
This really depends on your approach. You could go the Apple route and say you love your product. The problem is people can spot this really easily and they may out you as a shill. You might instead try the Google approach and say you hate the lead competitor's product. Your followers won't realize they're shilling for you because they'll feel righteous. The best part is the ensuing flame war will fuel itself!
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
If they were truely black hat, they'd be creating spoof accounts and autoposting from a quiet room where no one can see it. Asking people to, you know, use your product and, maybe, talk about it isn't even that shady.
Asking, sure. Enforcing, that's something else. But I suspect they won't do much. The employer doesn't have all that much leverage there, because it's all happening out in the public. Not hard to blow the whistle on this, and the various marketplaces can nuke a product without recourse, which is something that should keep marketing people awake at night.
Get used to it. Everybody does it and much of what you think of as news (especially tech news) is networked people astro turfing for each other.
If you think some of your friends will find it interesting, why not? Just serve your friends well. Use the app and be honest about what you like about it. If you can't stand it, just mention the app without saying you like it.
It is somewhat self serving and it may feel dirty but you are helping your company and yourself and informing your friends who may be interested and so everyone benefits. This is how the world works.
How about you actually TRY the app? If it's good, go ahead an give it a favorable review, but include full disclosure that you're an employee. That way there is no question of whether you're astroturfing or not.
--
www.nitemarecafe.com
most of the employees have not used the app
Why not? What kind of app is it? How can you expect others to use it if you can't/don't/won't use it yourselves? Eat your own dog food.
How about this? Rate it one star, with the comment:
"My HR/Marketing Rep, [insert HR/Marketing Rep's name] told me to rate this application." See if public embarrassment is enough to dial back the pressure to astroturf.
I would, of course, make sure that you can anonymously rate the application.
Give the app an honest try. If you have good things to say about it, then you can honestly say good things about it ("another division at my company made [application], I found it quite useful for [honest evaluation of hype]"). If it's useless or irrelevant to your life, tell marketting that you cannot find anything good to say about the software, but that if they [improve it/make something you'd find useful] you would inform your friends.
If marketting does not like your answer, tell HR that another division is harrassing you, and if they do not cease, you will take appropriate measures.
Also, keep every e-mail about this in case you do get in trouble for taking an honest stand.
1. "Most of the employees have not used the app." This is a sign that the app probably isn't very good, so you probably shouldn't evangelize it.
2. " Will the marketing or HR people look at who has astroturfed, and who has not at raise time?" Do the marketing and HR people determine the pay raises of the engineering staff at your company? If so, run, because you have bigger problems.
If you do a review of the product, do a review of the product.
If it sucks, call it out, if it's great then point out it's qualities.
If the product sucks your job is on the line anyway, the only way that your job will still be there is if the product is actually good so you might as well tell the truth, and if the truth sucks get going on that resume.
Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
One thing I've never understood is when a company asks its employees to act unethically -- much less does it in a very open way like this -- why would you think the company won't act unethically towards its non-management employees?
For example: When the Zynga brouhaha about them considering ditching old employee's stock options came up, it was only the specifics of it that were news; of course Zynga, who are obviously scumbags, would think about doing something along those lines. The people who worked for Zynga didn't do it out of desperation, they chose to work for a company like Zynga because they thought they'd get rich and didn't care about things like having the offical policy to rip off other games or distribute spyware to users. Then the scum they work for considers turning their sights on them and they're surprised?
If you aren't desperate for money, start shopping for a new job. If you are pretty desperate for this job, then yes, you're going to have to astroturf because they likely will check up on you.
It seems that companies think of social media in two ways only: 1) Can we use this to our advantage? 2) Can this be used against us? They don't seem to understand that YOUR social media account actually REPRESENTS YOU on the internet, as in your ONLINE IDENTITY. So what they are asking you to do is analogous to making you stand on the sidewalk in front of a supermarket with a bullhorn, in a yellow chicken-suit, and then making you shout "Fred Freddson's Eggs are the BEST EGGS in the market. Buy today! You'll LOOOOVE these eggs!" at anyone who passes by? Would you do this in real life if your employer asked you to? Its up to you to decide whether "Astroturfing" on social media is as bad as that. How much do you like your job? If you depend on it financially, then yes, by all means, do some Astroturfing. If the job sucks on the other hand, and you think you can find a better one, by all means, tell your employer "You know, I shouldn't be FORCED to use my social media accounts for the good of the company... There are better ways of marketing a product." Good luck with your job...
Why did the chicken cross the road? Because Elon Musk put an AI chip in its head.
She was on Fox and Friends this morning. She goes on about how great the Nokia 900 that she has is. You know for a fact that she is getting paid to talk about that device. Expecially since she said she had it for a while and the phone just came out. It had pictures of her baby as the wall paper on it and so on. Note all though she never said she was being paid to talk about it she was "slipping" it in the conversation. Makes me sick I can't get paid to say things.
So first you refuse to thumbs-up our app on facebook, and now you are killing time on Slashdot complaining about how we just asked for a little teamwork on the new release? Come on, jerk, either you like it or you don't. And get back to work.
Sincerely,
Your boss (posting AC for obvious reasons)
...and have your handle be "LoyalEmployeeofCompany", where company is the company you're shilling for.
Battlemaster--Game with friends in medival realms
Do the same thing you do to an acquaintance who is like "Dude, tell your friends about my band bro". Smile, nod, ignore.
You work for evil cocksuckers, but need money. Astroturf on expendable accounts, while systematically and __untraceably__ documenting all the astroturfing you can find.
Leak the info at your convenience. You get paid, they get fucked, life is good. There is no moral obligation to companies which astroturf.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
I'd hire a lawyer and have them fire off a terse letter reminding them that my political views are my private business and they can go fuck themselves. Oh, and by the way, my refusal to participate in their bogus political scheme had better not affect my prospects for a raise or advancement or there will be hell to pay. Have a nice day.
I would assume if they are selling it, the company will be more profitable. This is in your interest. Therefor, I say astroturf away.. However, try it first, cause if you promote it and its crap, it could damage the company.
Obviously selling the product is a concern for your employer. This means it is a concern for you. If your employer cannot make money, how do you expect them to pay you? I'm not telling you to lie, or make anything up, but why aren't you being proactive about this and asking for the app to use for your own? Unless you hate your company, then expect to be let go for some other reason.
Well, I'd say, do this:
Is the app actually any good? Does it do what it's supposed to? Does it have a target audience that would like it, but might not be aware of it?
If so, promote it honestly. Tell the truth:"I work for this company, and I'm proud of the product we make. If you want an app that does blah, you should try this one out. It's nifty, and I stand behind the work my company and my co-workers have done on it."
If not... just look for a new job. If you think your company is making crap, you're probably right, and it's better to get out before they kick you out.
That would be if you were expected to fake a bunch of actual reviews. Of course you "like" it. It buys you food. Employees have always been expected to stand behind their company's work in at least a "well, it's ours" kind of way.
When marketing (or most anyone else) sends an email to the entire company, ignore it. Duh.
If you have moral difficulties with something outside the scope of your employment agreement and/or job responsibilities, then don't do it.
Normally someone doesn't have to ask me to astroturf a project I'm working on. I want my company to be a viable source of employment so their bottom line is my bottom line. The more money I make them, the more money there is around raise time, whether they're keeping a naughty or nice list or not. Keeping that in mind, I'm usually very eager to promote things I'm working on. Even if I haven't tried it, I probably know what advantages it offers over competing products.
I'm perplexed at how developers can make something and not use it. Or marketers can sell something they don't use. Or administrators can manage people working on something they don't use. It strikes me that this is what Marx was talking about with regard to alienation. And it smells like a management failure, either to hire people who care enough about the work they do, or to instill enough of a sense of shared involvement, to casually mention it to some friends.
"Hey guys I'm working on this thing, check it out and let me know what you think!" is subtle, effective and not pushy. If you don't feel right doing that? look for another job.
This comment is fully compliant with RFC 527.
Sell your story to news, sue when you get fired for telling the truth.
Obligatory Idiocracy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svJXd9xxhv8
I see a lot of "If the employees don't use it, it must be crap!" comments here, which makes me wonder a little about what kinds of jobs people hold. Most of my professional career has been spent writing code for products I would never personally use -- vertical market software for large financial institutions, for example, or custom databases for people with very specific needs. To pick something at random, an app which helps people layout and plan gardens is not necessarily an app most of the programmers who work on it will be using themselves, unless you happened to have hired only programmers who are also gardeners. Replace "gardening" with "birdwatching", "tracking blood sugar levels", "scanning postage stamps for your online stamp collection", or a zillion other things which there might be a market for, but which might not be a passion for the people actually developing it. It's really not at all uncommon for the employees of a company to not also be the target market of that company, and not just in software.
When asking slashdot, use the company name. Backlash will stop this nonsense.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
And don't do it. Not like anyone will check, if they do check then lie again and say you did your "like" must have been "lost in the system".
http://www.amazon.com/Dilbert-Way-Weasel-Outwitting-Pants-Wearing/dp/006052149X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334175670&sr=8-1
read that book and learn from it, remember the mantra of modern line "integrity is for suckers"
We are going to need your Facebook password.
If it's good, I'd say so. If it sucks, well, then I'd have some thinking to do. Of course, if a company is relying on ME to do their PR, it's probably near bankruptcy anyway. :-P
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
I once worked at a company that fired their sales staff, then essentially asked us (the developers) to rake in clients for them, after working hours, for a 20% commission. Strangely enough, this brilliant management style didn't quite work out and the company went belly-up.
Point being, counter-intuitively, if your company actually need you to astroturf for them, you probably shouldn't. Instead, run.
So let me get this straight...You are not part of the marketing department but the marketing folks are asking you and the rest of the company to do their jobs for them??? That's what it sounds like to me.
Yes | No. Choose one.
My employer does this. Every new iPhone release, we're asked to give glowing reviews. They say that our competition will post a bunch of negative reviews, so we have to post good reviews just to balance them out and make the reviews fair. They even sent out instructions on how to download and review the app even if you don't have an iPhone.
While it may be true that this is a necessary business activity, frankly it's not my job. I even said that if it's necesary, why can't the marketers create a bunch of accounts and do their job themselves. Oh, no, that would be unethical. Better them than me, I uttered under my breath, and besides, being unethical is not in my job description, even if it is in theirs.
What's next, the toilets need to be scrubbed and it's better to ask the engineers to voluteer their time than it is to pay a janitor?
If I were paid an hourly wage, then yes I would probably do it, but I would give an honest review, not just an automatic: "OMG This is Terrific! Ignore all those naysayers, they don't know what they're talking about!" But volunteer my time so that the marketers, who are also salaried, can save some of theirs? No way Jose!
Jeez, this is just like a pyramid scheme, except you don't get a percentage of the sales.
Lots of companies make requests like this, or more benign looking stuff like asking that you donate to particular causes and telling someone so the company can effectively claim credit for your donation. The request is cheap and might give the company something it values.
But if it values you as an employee, the companies' request will be polite and ignoring it, or refusing politely, will have little or no impact on your pay or retention. Making a big stink about it, tho, will hurt your future unless it was already controversial in the executive suite.
It is all about fitting in with the culture, and few companies have a consistent one across engineering, marketing, and finance. If they did, Dilbert could never have succeeded.
fraud.
"Crude and slow, clansman. Your attack was no better than that of a clumsy child."
Sorry to see you are running short of P's here are some spares...
Ppppppppp pppppp pppppp pppp p ppp ppppp ppp pppppp Pppp ppp pppp pppppppp ppppp pppppp pppp ppppp ppppp pppp ppppppppp ppppppppp
Just try out the app and if you like it, then go on Facebook and "Like" it.
If you don't like it, then start looking for a job, why would you want to keep working at a company that produces apps that even its own employees don't like?
How about you try the app, then post a review if you like it?
Repeat: I am not a person, I am a corporate asset.
Then do what must be done.
Seriously though, you wouldn't be asking about this if you thought it was okay.
Maybe ask those in charge to let you test drive the app, so you can give a more thorough review.
Saying something is good when it's not, is likely worse. People will buy it, hate it, and accuse you of astro turfing.
Is it possible for the employees to use the app? Is the app an important part of the business development plan?
I ask, OP, because the app is important enough to marketing that they asked, by email, for employees to astroturf. Yet you are observing that few employees have used the app. Why is there this disconnect in the perceived importance of the app?
Obviously this is not an individual who is looking for a new job. Bluntly, it's not good out there. The folks who are hiring are cherry-picking hard, and hiring cheap. Get real.
The app may not be part of the core business. Some people seem to imply that since he doesn't know or like the app then he must be ignorant about his company. However, he never said he worked for a software focused company. The app could just be some small side project meant to drum up business or serve some small function.
Is this a product that you are proud to be a part of? If yes then just be honest when you post. If not then I would ignore the email.
...and say we did.
Never say never. Ah!! I did it again!
Other ethical concerns aside (and there are a few), I do social networking on my own time, not company time. If they wanted me to "like" or blog about something, away from work, they can damned well pay me for it. Otherwise (even without other ethical concerns) the answer would be "no". Not maybe: no.
I'd just ignore it. If they are a real pain in the ass, time to create a fake work profile. :)
My company is asking me to lie to customers. Okay, so it's all on your morals. Personally, I don't lie and I probably wouldn't work for a company that tells me to do so, but there are a lot of companies out there that do, so it's all on you since whistleblowing is just going to say so what.
/* TODO: Spawn child process, interest child in technology, have child write a new sig */
We don't know what the company or the app does. I work on a product that I have absolutely no use for, I can't imagine that's a strange situation. Plus, we're not even that large a company and I'm sure many of the employees have no more than a vague idea of what my product does, if they've even seen it at all (It's not our only product).
I could imagine some group in our company could create an "app", and I would not feel comfortable saying I "liked" it. If it was demonstrated I could maybe say whether it looked like it ran smoothly, but that's all.
Astroturfing is intentionally spreading a lie. You may not have authority to speak directly about the product in question, but you have authority to speak about the quality of the company that makes it. You are an employee, so you have a legitimate connection and interest in your companies products. Even if you've never used a specific product, you have an interest is putting your company in a good public light. Would you hesitate to say something good about your company and its products to a friend at a coffee shop? Neither do you have reason to hesitate about saying good things about your company and its products in social media.
Astroturing is intentionally spreading a lie. If you know that saying good things about your company and its products are not a lie, then this is not astroturfing. If saying good things about your company and its products is a lie, then start looking for a different job!
You must be working for Amway.
Seriously. Unless you are part of the Sales Department, tell them to stuff it.
I don't buy the new Corporate paradigm shift for IT personnel to also become social media sales whores. YES it is occurring, and I will not be sucked into a sales-pitch job for Internet passerbys.
If not, stop doing their job for them. Or ask them to help you with the coding.
If you aren't willing to astroturf the company you put 8 hours of your life everyday towards why are you there? Sounds like you don't exactly feel like a part of the company and it's more of a "just a job". If that is the case don't astroturf and go back to your daily tasks. Also, when raise time comes around I'd be highly surprised if your manager gives a crap about this...he\she will looking at many many other aspects like independence to reliability.
Didn't newegg and other online stores crack down on stuff like this?
Why do they even know what your social media site monikers are to check?
Ask HR for a copy of the app so you can try it out. Just say it is so you are better able to extol its virtue(s) and they will oblige.
More seriously, though, I believe you are within your rights to decline to "like" the app. The social media account is your personal account created on your own time, yes? The business can politely encourage employees who use the app AND like it to help spread the word, but they have absolutely no right to make a blanket request for employees to increase its favor in the public regardless of qualification or inclination to do so. If you are concerned about repercussions, document everything. Trail of proof is important.
Chances are, if you are proud of the company you work for, and are happy to be there, nobody in that company needs to ask you to astroturf, or do any kind of promotion.
If you are here asking the question as to what you should do... then I think you already know that answer.
And that answer is to get a better job, with someone you enjoy working for. Or at least, someone who won't make you want to shower every time you come home at night to wash the slime off. Yes, it's a tough economy -- but it got that way by the immoral actions of the minority. They way out of it, is not by further immoral actions.
And at risk of Godwinning the thread, the "only obeying orders" is an excuse, never a defense. You are responsible for your own moral actions. Internally, for your own peace of mind -- and in the eyes of the law.
Give the app a try. Perhaps you'll actually like it and ease your dilemma.
they should turn to the SEO monkeys. Not that i approve of all business methods they use.....
Honestly. If the toilet needs to be cleaned, will it be done by the employees taking turns? If the office needs to be painted, will everybody get an brush?
One approach - just point out that spamming social media with ilikes from a single source will very likely backfire and
get the company *bad* publicity (...and hint that marketroids might lose *their* jobs) .
Might even scare them a bit (wipes crocodile tear from eye....)
Andy
(Yes it is *personal* accounts, but a big batch in one go is a dead giveaway)
Why do you work for a company that makes a product you think sucks? It must suck, otherwise you wouldn't have a problem.
So you work for EA?
If you can't get behind the products the company you work for puts out, quit and find a job at a place you can, or start your own company.. Stop wasting time/life.
Celebs do it all the time on public TV. (promote products they probably don't use let alone like).
Uh huh, and they get paid to do just that. If I were asked to do this, I'd ask if I have permission to use company resources to do so - including time, bandwidth and online reputation. If the answer's no, I'd ask for compensation for using my personal resources to do this work for them. I'd also consider asking to have my job description altered.
Tell your friends you're astroturfing outside of the social networking sites and move on with your life.
That's not necessary if his glowing endorsement of "Acme Widgets' stunning new app ParaWidget-X" comes from employee@acme.com
My advice to the OP? Face facts. Your employers are asking you to do unpaid work for them. Change the deal to a paid one by conducting this advertising campaign on their time. Protect your personal online reputation by creating a twitter/facebook/whatever account under your employee email address. Then spam away, my friend.
Ahh - My eye!
The doctor said I'm not supposed to get Slashdot in it!
If you actually like the app and think it's a good product then I'd say promote it. If you don't, then there's nothing wrong with just keeping your mouth shut. I used to work for a company that was constantly urging its employees to astroturf the government, vote a certain way, request our government representatives support or oppose certain bills... I just ignored it. Lots of companies do it, that doesn't mean you have to play along if it goes against your own opinion.
I guess I don't think that clicking a "Like" button is that big of an infraction, and wouldn't compare it to astroturfing. When I'm looking at buying a product, the number of "Likes" I see is meaningless because all likes tells me is percentage of people who like a product times the number of people who have seen a product. If a product has only been seen 100 times but 100% of them truely like it, then it has 100 likes, but if a product has been seen a million times and only 10% of them truely like it, then it has 100,000 likes. The number of likes is meaningless because there's no "downvote" and no "rate 1 to 5" option.
The situation where astroturfing gets on my nerves is when it's manipulating the information I'm using to decide whether or not to buy a product -- fake reviews, or fake Amazon ratings (which ranges from 1 to 5, not a single "upvote" button with no way to downvote it) get on my nerves because I use it to help me make an informed decision. I think you need to chill out if you think clicking "Like" is a serious astroturfing problem.
1. Deactivate all your social media accounts. You won't miss them.
2. a Report them - it's consumer fraud
b. Get fired
c. Whistleblower lawsuit - PROFIT!
3. Create a new account called "$nameofapp.sux" and post stuff like
Really, just report them (#2). There's nothing they can do in retaliation without it costing them $$$.
Let's call it what it is, Anti-Social Media.
The thing is, most of the employees have not used the app, but we are being asked to say that we like it. ... How would you deal with this?"
I'd tell them I cannot comment on the product as I haven't used it. If I do use it and am asked to comment, it will be my honest opinion. It's okay if they want to pay me for my opinion, but I'll note that in my review...
Will the marketing or HR people look at who has astroturfed, and who has not at raise time?
I personally don't care about stuff like that - and it has actually served me quite well. My goal is to be trusted, not liked. Especially fun when people who don't like me - usually because they wanted me to do something questionable for them and I said "no" - ask me to solve a problem because they begrudgingly know I'm the only one who can in the time allotted. It's fun having integrity, skills and experience.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Just bill mocketing for plenty of your working hours you allegedly 'spent astroturfing' - and use the time to find a better job. That will serve them right. If your company can't find a better way to increase their revenues (writing better apps for example) they are on their way down anyway.
Oh, the beautiful gloss of greality!
That's just simple promotion - asking employees to mention to friends, family and other acquaintances the products or services the company offers.
Astroturfing would be if you were pretending to be someone who DIDN'T work at the company. So long as it's a social network where your affiliation with the company is clearly visible and/or all your friends/family already know you work there, there's no ethical problem.
You don't have to BS or anything like writing a glowing review of a product you haven't used/don't like, but simply liking or +1ing something is just a way to spread its visibility to more users.
How would you deal with this?
Morally? Try out the app. Write what you really think. If you don't like it, either don't say anything, or tell the company what you didn't like. Maybe they can use your input to improve the thing. Worse comes to worst, tell them that at least now they know you're truthful when you tell them something.
~Loyal
I aim to misbehave.
Are you people for real? OP is asked to make a harmless little white lie, and people advocate quitting the job and "reporting" the company?
What do you do when your girlfriend asks if she looks fat in a pair of jeans? Do you wrestle with whether you should tell the truth? Do you quit your girlfriend and try to find a new one rather than facing the tremendous moral dilemma of whether to answer truthfully?
You guys take life, and yourselves, way too seriously, and you don't understand how the world works.
"Posting as AC for obvious reasons. The company I work for put an app in an app store. The marketing people think it isn't selling very well, so they sent out an email asking people to get on all their social media sites and friend or like the app to build up traffic. The thing is, most of the employees have not used the app, but we are being asked to say that we like it. We just saw stories about companies not being allowed to ask employees or interview candidates for access to social sites, but what does it mean when a company asks employees to astroturf? Will the marketing or HR people look at who has astroturfed, and who has not at raise time? How would you deal with this?"
Why don't you start by actually USING your company's software, then either share constructive criticism internally, or sincerely give it props online.
Your credibility will go straight down the toilet, as will that of your company.
Certain sites and communities will ban your sorry ass for abusing their trust.
Fuck the marketing department. If they want people to astroturf, they can do it themselves (hilariously badly) or they can hire people to do it (which will also go over hilariously badly).
If they actually keep tabs on who 'turfed for your app and who didn't, I strongly suggest looking for a new job, because your current one is only going to become increasingly filled with paranoid, unethical bullshit as time goes on.
I find it appsolutely apphorrent that you've approgated responsibility for appropriate appellation of Apps.
Sincerely,
Appalled of Appleby
Python coder | PyQt Applications | Writer
My friend's posts on Facebook immediately following his new job were wild praises of random Microsoft software (especially Bing). I'm not sure if he was being ordered to shill, but it was rather profuse either way.
Ask for money. If marketing isn't doing its job and asks you to do it, you deserve a share of their paycheck.
Basically, whenever the company asks you to do something they aren't paying you for, they ought to be paying for the extra. Be it time or work outside your assigned area.
Treat your company the way it treats its customers. Sometimes a good customer gets something complimentary - as part of keeping a good relationship or whatever. But never just out of the goodness of the companies heart (it doesn't have one). It's always a calculation.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
I've been working in interactive advertising in New York for the last 13 years (hey, when the dot-com days ended it was the only thing left in this neck of the woods). I despise advertising. Especially the indiscriminate TV kind. God, what I wouldn't give to get back all the time I've been exposed to feminine hygiene commercials.
But, when I've been online and experienced advertising that is actually geared toward me, it does not annoy me. I find it helpful. Likewise when a friend has forwarded something they thought I might be interested in, I often have been and have been grateful they thought of me.
So I'll express a contrarian opinion on this subject and say that if all advertising was done in the latter way, we'd probably see it as much more of a positive than as a negative. We should all hope that advertising in general follows this model and only routes to the people who might or could find it interesting and useful.
If not us, who? If not now, when?
Be honest - say "I like this product" but add the disclaimer "I work for the company that makes this product". Marketing can't gripe about that (can they?). I've seen disclaimers on /. so it's common practice.
Of course, if you don't like the product, why are you wasting your time working for a company that makes things you don't like?
(Disclaimer - I work for an insurance company and have my insurance with a competitor. Why? They're not that competitive in my circumstances, and I need the $$)
"The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes" - Winston Churchill
If you don't like the app you could always create a fake profile (or 2) to use to rate it poorly, then use a profile with your name and rate it positively. That way, the rating system isn't broken, but if your company is so unscrupulous as to check which employees gave positive reviews (and it sounds like it might be) then you are ok.
Do you have a freaking spine?
~Just as a thing fails if it lacks a kernel, so too it fails if it lacks a skin. ~ Rumi, Discourses
"He's not being asked to astroturf. He's being asked to like the product."
Astroturfing is astroturfing, no matter the form. Employees are being asked to falsely represent themselves as happily satisfied users of the product. That is astroturfing at its very essence. Whether you are doing it via blog posts or Facebook likes, you are still committing exactly the same ethical breach. There is no difference.
His point is that it is *not* astroturfing if your profile identifies you as an employee or otherwise being involved. Astroturfing involves hiding the involvement.
For example I have an iPhone / iPad app named Perpenso Calc. Its a calculator offering RPN, Scientific, Statistic, Business and Hex functionality. If I recommend it in a slashdot thread regarding calculator apps I am *not* astroturfing because my account name, "perpenso", indicates that I represent the publisher.
FWIW, I have not asked friends, family, colleagues, etc to rate or like my app. Asking an employee to post an announcement that their project/product has shipped may be OK, but asking for ratings and likes seems to go too far. Such ratings and likes should be real.
Should you? No. But if it's that or lose the job you're counting on to pay for little Timmy's operation, we'll understand.
I despise the idea that your employer, who has no loyalty to you, can make demands about how you live your private life, but it's a dirty, hypocritical world out there. Sometimes you have to make short term compromises. As such compromises go, this isn't exactly betraying Anne Frank to the SS.
But if you make it clear that you are uncomfortable doing this and they insist, I'd start looking for another job whether you decide to cave or not. The reason is that your employer does not respect you. It doesn't respect your privacy or value your honesty. You don't want to work for people like that, they''ll keep nibbling away at your dignity until accepting indignities becomes an ingrained habit.
If you're at all in a position to say "screw that", say it. If not, do what you must, but look for a better place to work.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
...but have you actually *TRIED* the app? Is it any good? Does your employer have any way of actually checking to see if you have liked/reviewed/+1'd the app?
/. can answer that question for you. Best of luck to you, whatever you decide!
If you've tried the app and it's decent, then why not go ahead and say so? If it sucks, however, then I probably wouldn't put my endorsement on it but then again, I'm not the one who'll be heading for the unemployment line so that's easy for me to say. If your employer doesn't really have any way of checking to see if you've "liked" or "+1'd" the app, then the choice is a lot easier. If they can verify who has and who has not endorsed the app, then you need to decide if the risk of potentially losing your job is worth violating your conscience. Unfortunately, no one here on
MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
If it's a publicly traded company, this is clearly an illegal deceptive practice.
Hasn't the FTC come out against astroturfing, and even fines some companies for doing it?
CC: boss, HR, general council
RE:request dated (date) that I link, like, and promote our applicaiton in my private social media.
Dear Marketing Person,
In accordance with our companies Due Dilligence requirement I have examined the request of (person) on (date) and determined that following the suggestions therein could cause (app name) to be removed from the (app store) service. Since this request may be against our Ethics Policy, and following it may be detrimental to the company in general, I will not be able to perfrom the actions detailed.
I strongly suggest that management bar other employees from following the request at this time, pending formal review of the contractual requirements of (app store) and the possible reprocussions should (app) be banned.
Sincerely,
(Employee Name).
=====
The lesson: if you act all furtive about your rejection you look non-compliant or threatening. If you act very publicly and give citations you are potentially heroic or at least colatterally known to be acting in the company's interests as you understand them. The bigger the company the better this works. It is -particularly- effective if your company does any government or finincial work because then "due dilligence" and "ethics" are magical words not just good ideas.
Innocent people shouldn't be forced to pay for inferior software development.
--"Code Complete" Microsoft Press
Maybe you should consider using the product your company develops? If you like it, then no harm done, you can share your honest opinion. If it sucks, jesus man, get the !@#$ out as quickly as possible. I can't believe you haven't even used it? I wouldn't want to work for someone who made a product I hated.
write out a page worth of praise for the product (e.g. 1000 words) and post that somewhere. you get to keep your job, and as nobody reads more than a paragraph online these days, nobody will read your astroturf. win win. (have you skipped the really really long comments on this slashdot page? see what i mean). oh, better stop writing now as i actually want you to read this.
then you shouldn't have any qualms about promoting it...
Or can it? I think you should tell your bosses to do it with scripts and send the bots forth! Skynet is self aware and he's a dick.
There's a European directive - the Unfair Commercial Practices Directive - that makes this illegal in Europe, http://www.out-law.com/page-10583.
My company's marketing department also asked all of the employees to facebook 'like' the company & post comments about the company. There were not any managers pushing this down on the employees. I won't touch it with a 10 foot pole. My rule is to not discuss my company on the internet that is in any what that is identifiable to my company or myself. Once you cross the line of mixing work with your personal life you are walking into a mine field. The best case scenario is that no one cares that you did it. The worst case scenario is that people start looking at your personal internet life and find something objectionable that you have said, or some strangers on the internet decide they don't like what you said and try to get you fired from your company, or you make some off hand comment about a coworker, company or work situation that lands you in hot water. It just isn't worth it.
Yea, HR and General Council are heafty blows, but the poster is already saying he's worried about reprocssions.
In a government contract related setting, however, there are apporpraite people (your ethics focal, your compliance manager, your direct report, etc.)
The quesiton is posed as "Marketing told us all", so the response has to be "I told the very-limited subset of directly interested parties".
Since the questioner is -aready- in fear, targeted and effective aggression -is- the only answer that works. Being correct is just icing.
Passive aggression with "reply-all" is far more likely to tweak a managers gnads than a managerially correct action. Not knowing the size of the company, I picked titles that would be correct in general as examples to the crowd.
The one thing managers cannot stand is weakness, if you are going to fight the issue at all, don't be a wuss about it or you will get roasted.
Innocent people shouldn't be forced to pay for inferior software development.
--"Code Complete" Microsoft Press
I get paid money to advertise your products. Not kudos, not pats on the back, not empty promises of future raises... MONEY. You pay me enough money I'll advertise anything you want. But I absolutely will not do that shit for free.
There is a big difference between liking something on Facebook and being asked to fabricate a review of a piece of software. Liking something on Facebook is basically just you spreading the word to your friends and adding to the total number of 'likes' on Facebook. You're not doing something unseemly. If they were asking you to review it or give it a 5 star rating or something, that's an entirely different story.
Portable versions of Firefox, GIMP, LibreOffice, etc
If dishonesty on an employment application or any other document is
cause for termination the answer is obvious. This is a lot like the
bit of "give me your password" compliance would be a clear and
obvious expression of a character flaw -- so ignore the request.
If necessary "unfriend" any and all company folk.
There are also risks to you and the company because a "lie" is
obvious intent to defraud should the product lack anything, anything
at all.that costs the customer money or loss of money.
This is one company memo that should go to hard copy and
then to a safe place. Hide it behind a wall, misfiled under rut-ro
or some such thing perhaps inside the company so there is no
transgression of other company policy that might kick in at the door.
However this is common, the key issue is that you never used
or owned the product and are being asked to lie.
Try it! Heck you might love it if you try it.
Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't. Mark Twain.
I'm not sure how this relates to preventing businesses from requesting facebook passwords of personal accounts, as the law Maryland has passed, because they don't need that information to necessarily see what you as an employee "like". They do, however, have to have you "friend" them, assuming that's information you keep private. And requiring that is definitely crossing the line that divides professional life from personal life. So at this point, since such a law is about passwords, my best guess is that a judicial court would interpret the intent of the law such that it would prevent a business from requiring that employee or perspective employee "friend" the business.
On those grounds, I think you could take a fairly strong case to your HR department that a requirement. However, I'm neither a lawyer or a judge, so keep that in mind. :-)
They are asking you to take on a a role as salesman in addition to your normal duties. There's nothing wrong with that. In fact, if you have any ethical objection to selling what you make, then you shouldn't be making it in the first place.
Tell them your considerations about being an ethical salesman and the proper rewards for being one.
That's extortion, which is a felony.
Space game using normal deck of cards: http://BattleCards.org
If you're proud of the application, and you think it might help some people you know, by all means tell people about it.
Until it's an order and you disagree with the text of that order, you don't have a problem.
If it is an order and you disagree with the statement, then you have to consider whether that damage to your reputation is excessive given the consequences of not complying.
My take on this? Fuck'em. If you need the job and you feel your job is on the line over this, then feel free to lie to them. Tell them you made all kinds of wonderful comments about them. If they find out you didn't, what are they going to do? Fire you for lying about telling the lies they asked you to say? I personally think that astro-turfing, since it is a published act by a paid employee of the company, to run afoul of the truth in advertising laws. As far as I know, in most of the developed world, a company cannot require you to act in an illegal manner as part of your job. (lord knows it happens anyway all too often)
Let them fire you and then sue them for it.
I need a wheelchair van for my son. Help me get the word out. https://www.gofundme.com/wheelchair-van-for-jj
I've seen lots of companies do this (including my own). Short answer is if you don't think it's right, don't do it. My opinion:
* A product should stand out on its own. It shouldn't matter if the employees like it or not. The masses will ultimately determine its fate.
* There are lots of articles about this, but viral marketing is not a strategy. Astroturfing and trying to make a product viral doesn't work. This article about it gives a good explanation: http://www.geekwire.com/2012/hey-startups-users-arent-free/
That said, I'm not saying quit your job or look for another one because of this. Lots of good companies have idiots with harebrained ideas, but follow your gut. You likely have good reasons for defecting from the collective. Even better, replace their ideas with better ones.
Oh boy! Posting anonymously in case I ever end up in this purgatory myself. My guerilla passive-aggressive advice:
On the other hand, if they read Slashdot, then you're really screwed, aren't you?
Fulfill the request at your earnest. Write GLOWING REVIEWS! NO bad points whatsoever! These who claim bad things are LIARS! You are ECSTATIC! This product solved ALL your problems!
(...simply make sure that anyone who reads your reviews and opinions, can tell you're astroturfing. This should create the desired effect.)
Given how flaky facebook use is, you can always claim to have liked it, especially if you use a cell or tablet client for it.
FTW! Sell the product, not yourself.
I think this is sort of like asking Slashdot whether or not you should jerk off in public to drum up business because your employer asks you.
And the answer is of-course it depends.
It depends on - in no particular order:
- Is it in line with your morals and ethics?
- Can it be construed to be part of your job description?
- Is it legal in the jurisdiction you are in?
- Does it pay well?
- Would you enjoy doing it?
- Do you need the money?
- What happens if you refuse?
- Do you have other offers?
Answer these questions to your self, and you probably know what to do.
If my comment didn't sound as good in your head as it did in mine, then I guess we all know who's to blame
There are two parts to this question:
A) Should I like the product?
Yes, unless you totally hate it. If you like it, then like it. If you haven't seen it, well it is YOUR companies product, so you like it right? I mean in some sense it is making you money, so why not like it? Obviously if you feel it is a piece of crap, then don't like it. Otherwise what is the problem?
B) Will there be repercussions if you don't like it? As in will some PR drone go through the list and see who liked it?
I guess that is a remote possibility, but if you are the paranoid, you might want to look for another job (to relieve your stress levels). Your company doesn't really care if you click the like button or not. They just want the like # to be larger.
If you feel THAT strongly about it, then don't like it. But from the sound of it, there are other issues going on at your company you need to resolve.
You are exaggerating. Astroturfing is a WAY more serious manifestation.
It looks to me that in this case they are just begging you to support the product you are working on. There is no way for them to verify you actually did, but maybe (big maybe) the company doing better will reflect on you as well, so it may be in your own interest to show a bit of support. People do this ALL the time, its both legally and morally correct, and its still just a choice for you, they are not forcing you to do this.
People are doing some really crazy fucked up shiat out there, this is nothing. Nothing. Do whatever you want, and create less drama.
External validation isn't going to ease your conscience in the long run. You should pay attention to how you genuinely feel about it, because you already know whether you are comfortable doing it or not. Asking slashdot is counter-productive attempt at rationalisation.
(1.21 gigawatts) / (88 miles per hour) = 30 757 874 newtons
my last job was astro turfing for VOIP companies that wanted to push the cloud. you do what you gotta do, to do what you wanna do. poverty sucks.
Remember kids, if you're not paying for the service, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING SOLD.
If they insist on staff writing reviews of the software, then take some company time to download and review the software, and write one up.
Personally I have no problem with a company asking for my opinions on a product, even if I'm an employee, provided they're ok with an honest opinion based on my actual experiences with it.
But I'm a harsh critic, so I can't imagine any employer ever wanting me to do so publicly rather than internally for the tech team.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
I was in a staff meeting a few weeks ago and someone (somewhat jokingly) suggested we all give thumbs up to a certain social media site. This was immediately followed by a manager saying "oh, no, don't do that". Apparently she thought it was illegal, based on some recent FTC rulings. If you are receiving compensation from a party, you can't give anonymous praise for it. I'm no lawyer, so I don't know for sure, but I have seen more rumblings recently that I suspect this might be true.
(I think it would still be legitimate if you identify your possible bias)
Why astroturf for a company without payment? They are just asking you to advertise for them, for free! If they want ads on your social media pages, they can pay for it. It's not that hard to figure this out. Go to whoever is managing this request and tell them you will advertise just like any other website, and give them a rate for a daily/weekly/monthly ad, depending on what they want to go with. If they want it to be an outright lie like "this is great, you guys should try it", they can pay you double for putting your name on the line. If they want an actual advertisement, such as a banner or text ad that's put up as such, "this is the company I work for, you guys should support us", as an example, they can pay a somewhat lower rate. Get a brain moran!
If employees are not willing to use it or find any relevant use for it then your marketing dpt had failed miserably and THAT is why it's not selling /being downloaded
let's say your company sells plungers,,,,and built an App for .99$ so people can browse their plunger inventory and find the closest store.
most apps are totally irrelevant or is for a very small number of quirky people, maybe they all work at your office?
There is never any justification for this activity. Ever.
I tell people: 95% of the time, I can appeal to someone's God-given instinct to want to do the right thing at all times. 5% of the time, this doesn't work. So I resort to putting wild-eyed fear into that person in terms of what's going to happen when (not if) they get caught.
Your employer might have heard of Reverb Communications?
I'm reading some phenomenally bad advice here that takes the form of "Why don't you just try the software and vote it up if you like it?" Fact is, the Federal Trade Commission won't see it that way. You're a paid advocate. End of story.
You can encourage friends to try it out, disclosing to them that your employer is involved.
Come on, this is an ethical issue? Like there aren't worse things in the world. They're not asking you to create fake accounts, just to hit the Like button.
I'm sure you've Liked stupider things than that app many times a day. Who cares?
Why, Slashdot? Why???????????
Boing-Boing conveniently just posted a pointer to an appropriate cartoon over at The Oatmeal called How to get More Likes on Facebook.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Are we talking about ChaCha? They did that about a year ago I believe. Somewhere, I posted the email about it and left a review of their app on the Mac Store or wtfever it is iPhones use. A more direct answer is: I exposed the bastards. Fuck them.
Get evidence of it. Ask for $50K for you to not publish evidence the company is astroturfing. Wait for them to fire you, and sue.
At least that is how it shoud work out legally.
That right there is why the world hates America.