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Macbook Owner With Defective GPU Beats Apple In Court
New submitter RockoW writes "A few years ago, Apple sold defective computers of the MacBook Pro line. They had the defective Nvidia 8600M GT GPU. In this case Apple refused to take the computer back and issue me a refund. Instead, they promised to replace the 8600M GT boards when they failed, up to four years from the date of purchase. Three years later, the MacBook Pro failed and they refused to replace it. This guy took them to the court and won by their own means."
If Apple promised to replace parts they knew to be defective for up to four years then they'd better step up. The court costs far outweighed the costs of replacing the GPU in his MacBook (and probably 100's of others). The cost of the bad press? It seems Apple has always been willing to test the patience of their customers' loyalties.
Apple charges top dollar for their hardware.
You would feel bad about "picking on them" for why?
Apple is responsible for the products it supplies. It is up to Apple to seek damages from Nvidia, not the consumers.
I remember that slogan. Not too long ago even. Before that it was "Think different" and buy the most common mp3 player on the planet. I dislike apple because I dislike marketing, and Apple is like an avatar of marketing; the essence of style over substance given form.
Apple got slammed in court for one simple reason: they guaranteed replacement for 4 years. 3 years in, they reneged on their promise. Simple, blatant double talk.
The customer had the documentation to prove his case, and he won.
A) I don't see how this is "picking on Apple" and I especially fail to see how we're picking on Apple since yours is the first post.
B) If HP had made a public statement that they would replace all DV laptops if the graphics card failed, and then refused to replace a laptop when the card died, and the owner then sued HP and won, I'm pretty sure that would also be pretty likely to make it to the Slashdot front page.
Yep, page is already down.
Official Heretic from the "Church of Global Warming". Proven right thanks to whistle blowers. AGW = Flat Earth Theory
You mean nVidia. AMD/ATI did not have this problem.
Because Apple is the company which promised to replace his laptop up to 4 years after the date of purchase if it failed but then refused to replace it 3 years later?
Sure, the problem is with the GPU, but since Apple itself *promised* to do something for a customer, they should respect their own words.
This is a huge problem for almost every manufacturer. Take a look at the HP DV series of laptops for example. Why are we picking on Apple and not the GPU manufacturers here?
maybe because Apple reneged on their promise. That's reason enough.
because it was their duty to replace and they tried to get out of it
it's up to apple to take it to the component manufacturer if they believe they're failing more than an acceptable amount of the time
Nvidia settled a class action lawsuit about these GPUs.
(link: http://www.techspot.com/news/43614-customers-get-shafted-in-nvidia-class-action-suit.html)
cool story bro but apple sold it to consumer and the boards were only replaceable by apple and only available through apple..
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
I did in warrantied repairs for an Apple authorized service provider for two years. I can't tell you how many of these repairs apple picked up the tab on. I have never seen another computer company take as much responsibility as they have on this issue. The repair to replace the logic board that contained the defective GPU was a $1700 repair from a third-party authorized repair center and I did an average of 2 to 3 a week for 2 years.
Try stacking up those numbers against any other computer companies defective products in what they did to fix them
Because they knowingly used bad parts and then refused to correct the mistake, when they promised they would. Plus on other laptops its not as impossible to replace parts as it is on a Macbook, so he couln't very well complain to NVIDIA and have them send him a new GPU.
Because they admitted in court that it would not cost them anything to fix it, nVidia was paying the bill, but they still refused and they didn't even have an argument on why they were refusing. They just wanted to make it hard for their customer. RTFA, the description of how the trial went is comedy gold.
I've had enough horror stories with with Apple products around me to not be surprised, it seems that for every iphone they replace no-questions-asked they void the warranty on a few iMacs just to balance it out. Since the average apple customer thinks Apple can do no wrong, these incidents usually don't generate any fuss.
Good for the OP!
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
Well, easy-to-understand terms: I buy a car from GM. This car uses an electrothermic flange belt also used by Ford and Chrysler. The part is found to be defective across all manufacturers. Ford, Chrysler, and GM all take steps to replace this part for their owners. GM then decides not to honor their obligation to a consumer such as yourself who has bought the car, and is taken to court.
In the situation above, is GM being "picked on"?
In the situation above, should I as a consumer in any way give a shit who made the part for my car? If I buy a hamburger from McDonald's and the beef gives me anal cancer, do I take action against the meat distributor?
Because Apple designed, tested, picked the parts for and finally sold this device. And if a component turns out to be of poor quality, Apple can to work it out with the GPU manufacturer while the person buying Apple's stuff can work it out with Apple. What's so wrong about that?
This is a huge problem for almost every manufacturer.
And Apple is one of the few who gets apologists jumping in to defend them by pointing this out.
So when the engine Lotus used in their car blows up, we should let Lotus off and complain at Toyota right? Your sig is very fitting here.
Because Apple makes and in many cases retails the end user product. In most countries, either the manufacturer or the retailer is responsible for consumer complaints and warranties. It's the car manufacturer who is responsible for the faulty floor mat, even if it is made by a subcontractor.
When asked why, the answer is almost always: "It's 2014".
Because it's up to Apple to replace the Apple hardware. They are then free to seek damages from the GPU manufacturer.
As anecdotal examples go...
My MBPro was affected by the problem. I knew about it, and a little over 3 years after purchase (extended warranty had expired) the telltale symptoms started appearing (horizontal stripes on the screen). I scheduled an appointment, took my machine in to the Apple Store, and Apple replaced the video card, no questions asked. Took about 2 days because they didn't have the part on hand in-store.
I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
Don't be so blind. The customer purchased the computer AND an extended warranty from Apple. The GPU manufacturer said to all parties they will foot the bill for the defective hardware. The repair was free for Apple, but they decided to take this customer to court just because. Then, in court, they lied to the judge, saying that the hardware was different, etc. Apple is usually good with warranties, but notoriously for forcing their way on everybody, be it for good or bad. In this case, they were wrong, and behave like morons, and drag one of their customers to court. It is infuriating.
Shouldn't there be a "holdingitwrong" tag or something?
Simple, follow the money. In the case of a laptop (e.g. from Apple) you buy it from Apple. You do not pay the GPU manufacturer, Apple does that.
Apple is responsible to the buyer because they took the buyer's money.
The GPU manufacturer is responsible to Apple as they took Apple's money.
http://www.dubjah.org/ShameOnApple
Damn Slashdot effect! What do you mean, 404?!?!?!?!?!?!
This is a huge problem for almost every manufacturer. Take a look at the HP DV series of laptops for example. Why are we picking on Apple and not the GPU manufacturers here?
Because this story is about Apple, not HP or Nvidia. RTFA.
dunno, but if I bought a lotus from lotus and it blew up I'd complain to lotus - not to the company that was contracted to do the piece that broke. it's not like brembo(or whatever) is responsible to consumers for toyotas brake problems..
toyotas brakes fail and people don't go complaining to brembo..
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Haters breed apologists. Think about that next time you support a double standard.
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
Because this is Slashdot. Apple is that evil bad nasty walled-garden company that makes products those filthy commoners like...
No. I'm a Mac user, and Apple has always done the right thing if something went wrong with the hardware on my computer, but in this case they were wrong. They went back on a promise, they should be held responsible.
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
they arent terrible, i guess... they replace 6 year old products..
they just replaced my 2005 1gig iPod Nano with a new 6th generation 8gig iPod nano... for free, only took a little over a week.
Apple has determined that, in very rare cases, the battery in the iPod nano (1st generation) may overheat and pose a safety risk. Affected iPod nanos were sold between September 2005 and December 2006...Apple recommends that you stop using your iPod nano (1st gen) and follow the process noted below to order a replacement unit, free of charge
That's strange... I had this exact same problem and Apple replaced my motherboard for free when the time came. I wonder why they denied it for him?
They probably ran out of mainboards with that chip given the failure rate...
If I buy a hamburger from McDonald's and the beef gives me anal cancer, do I take action against the meat distributor?
Obviously not, don't be ridiculous. You take it up with the cow.
My 2007 MacBook Pro had its motherboard replaced for free out of warrantee because of this issue, and I didn't have to push hard at all. I eventually replaced that model with a mid-2010 MacBook Pro only to find the nVidia chip there fails with great regularity when paired with Lion. After another free post-warantee motherboard swap failed to solve the problem they actually replaced the entire system for free with a newer model. I'll be leery of future nVidia-powered laptops but my experience with Apple support was extremely positive in the long run.
As anecdotal examples go...
My MBPro was affected by the problem. I knew about it, and a little over 3 years after purchase (extended warranty had expired) the telltale symptoms started appearing (horizontal stripes on the screen). I scheduled an appointment, took my machine in to the Apple Store, and Apple replaced the video card, no questions asked. Took about 2 days because they didn't have the part on hand in-store.
I had two of them, identical units with the same Nvidia GPU. One never exhibited the problem and works beautifully to this day. The other had its logic board replaced within three days by an authorized Apple shop.
I have no idea why Apple decided to be a dick about this guy's computer; goodness knows they've replaced thousands of others.
Not an excuse. They are a "premium luxury" brand. If they couldn't do right by the customer with the parts they had on hand then they should have given the customer a better replacement.
THIS is what separates the real "quality" brands from the ones that are just over hyped by mindless consipicous consumers.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Same thing happened to me. My Macbook Pro motherboard fried about 4 yrs out. Apple replaced the motherboard for free; no questions asked. The bill was $1,200 b/f Apple waived it.
They also replaced my iPhone screen when 1 pixel went bad for free...no questions asked...2 months after my 1 yr warranty had expired.
My God can beat up your God. Just kidding...don't take offense. I know there's no God.
You've got it backwards.
It's the shills and apologists that breed haters.
If there were less mindless hype surrounding Apple, there would simply be less of a story here. Although if Apple just lived up to their supposed reputation there wouldn't have been any story at all.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
It's an iGPU - not just a regular GPU. It's welded to a lot of other things. All of those things have to be replaced.
Thats the problem. The lawyers made millions and all Apple got was a $10 coupon off thier next nvidia purchase.
Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
We'd love to RTFA, but the website is still slashdotted and does not load.
In my case, the GPU wasn't at fault, it was Apple's faulty application of heat sink compound that caused the chip to fail.
What double standard? There's plenty of hate on other companies. Google, MS, Facebook, Sony, you name it. Those don't see the level of apologists as Apple gets
Haters don't breed apologists. Fanboys do.
Okay, fine, I'll concede to it being a cycle. You're still not going to shut up any apologists even if they are, like in this story, clearly in the wrong. They'll try harder the next time around.
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
What double standard? There's plenty of hate on other companies. Google, MS, Facebook, Sony, you name it.
Yeah, they all have equal hate, that's why Microsoft has never been mentioned here as working with Foxconn, right?
Haters don't breed apologists. Fanboys do.
Heh. Yeah, people just kept coming out of the woodwork and started apologizing for no reason. Haters, sick of the apologies coming from out of nowhere, decided to combat them by finding stories that made the fanboys' company look bad.
Yeah, you really thought that one through, didn't you?
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
Apple's rapacious greed knows no bounds.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
They didn't 'knowingly use bad parts'. As far I know none of the manufacturers knew ahead of time they would have a problem. I have a Dell laptop that was part of this whole mess.
I don't hate Apple.
I hate their fans, because they seem to believe Apple is god (i.e. flawless). There was a time I would have said Amiga was better than Apple, and Apple was better than Microsoft (90s).
For that reason I used Amigas and Macs frequently, but with the stability of the Windows NT OS (specficially XP and 7), there's very little difference. Yes MS has flaws but so too does Apple; to pretend apple is flawless seems ridiculous. THAT is why her fans annoy me.
My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
Actually, they did... it just wasn't a very good argument.
Their argument basically amounted to the company simply adhering to its own policies... although admittedly the article was sketchy on what policies those were that would actually deny the repair.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Several years ago I had a Compaq laptop with a GPU that failed. As far as I know, the fault was not Nvidia's, it was HP's. The motherboard wasn't well designed and would flex an unreasonable amount due to thermal stress. This had the effect of eventually causing the solder on the BGA to separate and lose contact. I probably could have reflowed it, but it would have only been a temporary fix until the motherboard flexed enough for the problem to happen again.
Apple breeds haters by being evil. The haters hate evil, see? Apple is just a high concentration of evil, that is why it attracts haters.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
posting as AC because i don't want any attention from HR:
I work as an apple genius at the genius bar.
If the Macbook Pro doesn't but up at all it's not the nvidia defect.
If the GPU fails the device will still boot, capslock leds are going to light and the genius is supposed to run a software check from a external hdd, where the result is written in a text file.
There you can check if the macbook is eligible for repair.
The judge and everyone else wondered "why, Apple, if it cost you nothing to accept the repair, did you have to pay two employees to take time off work in order to defend an indefensible case?" The answer, which they couldn't state, is that most people accept what they are told by Apple as the truth... and most people STILL DO. That once-in-a-while a customer with a valid complaint actually brought them to court and won does not break their winning business model. Most people will take it up the butt when it comes from Apple... and they will do it happily.
The terms of the class action suit were not favorable for the consumers, as your link states. For replacements from HP, everyone got the same Compaq budget 15" notebook, which retailed at around $270 at the time that the notebook owners received their replacements. Many of the consumers, including myself, had purchased notebooks which cost well over $1000. It is argued by some, that since prices have lowered since the initial purchase, the replacement notebook was comparable to the one initially purchased. This was untrue in my case. It also doesn't take into account that many of these notebooks were unusable during the years it took for a class action lawsuit to take place, and replacement notebooks awarded.
In my case, it is basically as if I purchased two $1200 notebooks, and didn't have them shipped to me until 3 years later. By the time I got them, I found out they weren't even the correct specs. Since it was 3 years later, I could have gotten much more for $1200.
The suit pitted the consumers against nvidia themselves, bypassing the computer manufacturers. I don't think this was an appropriate action. The manufacturers share some blame. They took the payoffs from nvidia to replace the GPUs under warranty, until the warranties ran out and it was all swept under the rug. At the time, the manufacturers knew the replacement parts were a time-bomb waiting to fail. They didn't care, because nvidia was funding them to do the repairs anyway. So, the manufacturers were making money by *not* replacing the GPU with a non-defective GPU.
In the case of HP, they lied about replacing the GPU with another defective GPU, and slapped a 90 day warranty on the service work. When I complained to them, and the BBB, they lied and said they replaced it with a different model GPU. My own eyes and lspci spoke a different story.
I agree. A few years ago I bought an EVGA brand Geforce 7600GT which failed after a year (a number of the capacitors on the board had blown). When I contacted EVGA about it, I told them that I was just beyond my one year warranty (as stated in the documentation that came with the card) but they told me that I had a "1+1 year warranty", basically extending the warranty period on the spot. After they issued an RMA, I sent the card back and received a Geforce 8600GTS as a replacement. I was shocked, since the new card was significantly better than the 7600.
After checking their forum, I found that this was fairly standard procedure for EVGA. Many other people reported getting much better cards as replacements. Ever since then, I have recommended the brand to others, despite the cost usually being a bit higher. My experience with their customer service was fantastic.
that hamburger....i think you are using it wrong
Pedantic much?
They didn't have an argument that made sense or could stand in court. Which is usually what we usually mean when we say "didn't have an argument", sorry to confuse you.
Anyway, why don't you simply RTFA? There is a lengthy and satisfying description of the proceedings. I guess the policy you are looking for is "it won’t boot so we won’t repair it" (which is exactly what the flaw that needs to be repaired causes) - a policy similar to the one Yossarian was up against
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
First, I'm glad he won. It shouldn't have gotten to that point, but he did what he had to do.
I am typing on one of the affected machines now. The 8600M GT in this one failed in January of this year, 4 yrs & 4 months after purchase. Apple refused to replace it under warranty because it was beyond 4 years. I was not happy about that.
Contrary to some previous posts, repair cost for these machines isn't $1000+. In store repair quote was around $450. However, Apple also offers "depot service", flat rate repair on this machine is $310. I couldn't afford that at the time, but in March, I had the money and took it in for repair. It came back less than a week later, repaired, NO CHARGE. No explanation of why it was free, but it was free.
So, Apple certainly could have handled it better up front, but in the end, they did take care of me. I was without the use of my machine for about 10 weeks because I didn't have money to authorize the repair. Granted, it still has a GPU that can fail at any time, and make the machine useless. But the reality is that I have a 4.5 yr old machine that is still working, still very usable, and is likely to continue for a few more years. I say I got my money's worth, even with the GPU defect.
make imaginary.friends COUNT=100 VISIBLE=false
In TFA, the author noted that one of the ironies was that Apple said in court that Nvidia would pay for the replacement. However, the thing that struck me was his revelation that he had received lots of contacts from people who have also had the same kind of failure and have paid Apple or trashed their machines. It seems pretty obvious that the reason Apple probably spent more than the cost of satisfying this guy's claim was to prevent a precedent's being set in a large class-action suit against them.
"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." -- George Orwell
Three of us at the company got 17" MBPs at the same time. Sequential serial numbers even. Every one of them had the graphics card suddenly fail. Mine lasted longest but I believe that is because I took more care to keep my laptop cool.
To my surprise, Apple covered the repair as a "known issue" even though the machine was long out of warranty and I did not have an AppleCare policy. Not only that, the part was overnighted to the shop and it was done in under 24 hrs.
I have no reason to be anything but impressed by Apple's handing of the situation. Saved my bacon... at the time I had no backup machine to do my work on.
So I am left with the impression that the matter at hand was a situation that somehow fell through the cracks.
If they couldn't do right by the customer with the parts they had on hand then they should have given the customer a better replacement.
And that's just what HP did for me when it was determined that my Compaq laptop was a lemon. They didn't just give me an equivelant Compaq, they gave me a near top of the line HP.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
You remember the faulty PSU unit in iMac G5 some years ago? Well, my gf had one these fashion computer. About a week before the issued the recall compain on G5, her PSU broke. While breaking, it also damage the motherboard. When I brought her computer to Apple Store, they kindly accepted to replace for free the PSU, but asked over 1000$ for the MB. I paid the 1000$ and bring Apple to small claim court. I won my case in 2007, they had to refund the full 1000$ + interest and to pay me 750$ for damage.
Yeah, they all have equal hate, that's why Microsoft has never been mentioned here as working with Foxconn, right?
Because hate is only gauged by whether they're mentioned with Foxconn?
All the stories about Windows 8, the Windows phone, all the patent wars (which Google, Apple, and other companies are also a part of). None of contained hate or hateful comments, right?
The old slashdot icon for MS wasn't Bill Gates of Borg, right?
Heh. Yeah, people just kept coming out of the woodwork and started apologizing for no reason.
What you might say with irony and sarcasm, I say with conviction: people ARE coming out of the woodwork and started apologizing for no reason.
What is Apple to them? They're just another company. Do you defend any and all companies that have hate thrown at them? Why?
Of course, of all the places to defend them, they do so on the Internet, against other random (anonymous) strangers. Yes, Apple is just so pitiful, that people must come out to defend them against those evil strangers on the Internet *waves hands and fingers as if telling a scary story to children*
Haters, sick of the apologies coming from out of nowhere, decided to combat them by finding stories that made the fanboys' company look bad.
Look around at other responses to this thread. Look at your own admission that the apologists are clearly in the wrong. There is nothing hateful about this story, nor me pointing out that apologists would jump out to defend, even if they are (again, as you admitted) clearly in the wrong.
So no, haters do not breed apologists. If they did, there wouldn't be apologists in this thread, and we wouldn't be having this conversation.
That's funny, because while everyone was bitching about nVidia chips failing in laptops, I saw just as many HP DV laptops with ATI chips that had the same problem. I'm not so sure nVidia was at fault.
"Prediction: within 10 years, Windows will be a Linux distribution." Me, 7-6-2016
Agreed. After probably spending $50k on apple products over the years this makes me not want to another thing from them.
They have become too big and profitable for their own good and as a result don't seem to care about the customers who made them that way. Classic biting the hand that feeds them.
Because hate is only gauged by whether they're mentioned with Foxconn?
That's what you got from my post? Really?
There is nothing hateful about this story, nor me pointing out that apologists would jump out to defend, even if they are (again, as you admitted) clearly in the wrong.. So no, haters do not breed apologists. If they did, there wouldn't be apologists in this thread, and we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Right, they have a chip on their shoulders. Look at the verbage the original poster used. He was obviously (and brainlessly) recycling an argument from the Foxconn stories. What would motivate him to do that? Fanboyism? Partially. Wanting to get a dig in for hypocrisy? Oh yes.
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
Last year I had my 15" Macbook Pro fail, about 3 months out of AppleCare. The GPU died, and the computer wouldn't boot. I called and took it to three different authorized Apple repair facilities and was told the same thing: they wouldn't replace it because it wouldn't boot.
Now I read this story, but my dead computer has crossed four years old in the meantime. It's still sitting in my office as I haven't gotten around to doing anything with it.
I felt screwed over at the time, and I feel even more screwed over now. I guess I should have gone to court. Instead, I ponied up for the new model as I had an international trip to make in 4 days and no laptop.
www.clarke.ca
Wow, a top of the line lemon. Good job!
Shutting them up is not the point. Keeping them from being unchallenged is.
to pretend apple is flawless seems ridiculous
Which is probably the main reason there are over 600,000 Macs part of a botnet in the US alone. Turns out security through obscurity running on magic beans isn't the best model...
And then if several other cars' engines from the same supplier also blew up, would you still complain that it's purely Lotus' problem? Would you make a big deal about it being a problem with Lotus, and, if you're a journalism outfit like Slashdot, only follow up on stories involving Lotus' exploding engines?
I'm just pointing out that Slashdot often has an anti-corporate bias, and it applies most heavily to companies that make technology accessible to the public at large. Consider the number of posts that boil down to "I could do that with an Arduino and an afternoon" in articles about computerized appliances.
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
I've been accused of that before. Sorry, I can be a bit literal-minded.
I would have thought it obvious that I did... the above summary certainly didn't mention anything about Apple's policies.
Yep... but as the machine not booting seemed the actual problem that necessitated repair in the first place, it had not occurred to me that this was actually all there was to it... I had instead figured that the article was missing some details on the policy.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Actually from Apple's point of view it probably does make sense. If they push the envelope of anti-consumer behaviour to dissuade people like this guy it's probably more profitable than honoring warranties. They acted the same way with european minimum warranties, refusing to honor them and forcing it all the way to court despite obviously being in the wrong. But the fine is trivial compared to what the cost of living up to legal obligations in the meantime.
And this case is unlikely to change anything; they'll still make more money by making sure that each customer knows that they will not get anything unless they take it to a lawsuit where they might not have the know-how of this guy and could lose. It'll dissuade nine out of ten or more who will just take it and move on with their lives.
I find it sad that I actually want to applaud you on here for managing to distinguish your personal anecdotal experience from the given situation and make clear, sound judgements based on available information. Did you RTFA too??
I actually had the opposite experience. About a year ago, my HP laptop was part of a class-action lawsuit because of a defective motherboard, as I recall. So, I had the option to return the laptop to HP for a replacement. I was pretty excited, since that old laptop had been extremely unreliable, and it had been a couple of years, so the equivalent laptop in price would be more powerful now. Unfortunately for me, HP's idea of a replacement was a bottom of the line Compaq. So, I ended up with a down-grade! Since then, I try to avoid HP products.
I also, was bit by this hardware failure, My HP Pavilion laptop constantly froze and would refuse to wake from sleep. I discovered this hardware issue on my own, and found a telephone number for HP.
I called the telephone number, HP ran my serial number, and then said that a box would be waiting for me at home tomorrow, and to send my laptop back (after backing up all my data) and I would receive it back with a replaced MoBo.
Well, I got my laptop back one week later. As specified, it had a brand new Mobo in it, with a different serial # ( I peeked at the original before sending it back)
I still have the laptop, and it still freezes. , just about ALL Nvidia GPUs of this run were bad, although that didn't become common knowledge 'till the Register I beleive, told everyone, and that was months after I'd already had mine replaced
But, HP did not try to stonewall me, they tried to fix the problem.
I've already sworn off any apple product for life, due to other issues, (Itunes is eeevil) but this is ridiculous.
Who could guess twenty years ago, that Bill Gates would become the Largest Philanthropist in the world, and Steve Jobs would become .. .'Evil'?
as the original article says, apple has become exactly what they said they were railing against with that infamous commercial.
jaz
Life is what happens to you while you are busy making other plans. No-one sees motorcycles
original article, sorry for the fucked formatting.
[quote]
A few years ago, Apple sold me a $4,000 computer with a defective graphics chip/logic board. The defective part was the Nvidia 8600M GT GPU, and when it was discovered that the machine was defective, Apple refused to take it back and issue me a refund. Instead, they promised to replace the 8600M GT boards when they failed, up to 4 years from the date of purchase.
Three years later, the board failed, and predictably, Apple refused to replace it. Instead, they used the fact that the machine wouldnâ(TM)t boot (due to the failed logic board) to deny the repair. Not only that, but in addition, they tried to charge me a hefty sum of money to have it replaced, knowing full well that Nvidia pays for the full repair cost.
Three and a half months ago, after having my repair denied, I announced on this very site that I was going to sue Apple. Reading these lawsuit threats often, many people assumed that I was bluffing or blowing off steam, but true to my word, I did exactly what I said I was going to do. I sued Apple.
I did not take this step lightly, however. In the months following the announcement, I did everything in my power to keep my dispute with Apple out of the court system.
First, I filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau. In their rebuttal to the BBB, Apple blatantly lied about the diagnostics they had run on my computer, and the BBB promptly closed the case, leaving Appleâ(TM)s âoeA+â rating intact.
Next, I spoke with Apple Executive Services ⦠three separate times. Each time, I was told that âoeWe value each customer and hope that they have a positive experience with Apple, and are sorry that you did not have this experience, but you will get nothing.â ⦠or something to this effect.
After that, I sent a demand letter to Apple via certified mail. I informed them that if I did not have my issue resolved within 10 days, I would sue.
Only then, after Apple failed to reply, did I file a Small Claims lawsuit.
Last week, the trial was held.
I arrived at the King County Courthouse shortly after 8am, and about forty five minutes later, the clerk performed roll call. Imagine my surprise when I learned that Apple had sent not one, but two people to represent the company. When Apple told me that I would get nothing, they really meant it.
After calling roll, and before calling the docket, the clerk went down the case list and asked each litigant if they would be willing to try mediation. Mediation keeps cases out of the court system, and keeps the outcomes confidential. This is especially beneficial to companies, as having judgements issued against them by customers is bad PR.
Always one to exhaust all good-faith remedies before resorting to more drastic measures (really, nobody can say I didnâ(TM)t try my hardest to stay out of court), I agreed to try mediation, and to my surprise, so did Apple.
Since everything said in the mediation room is confidential, I cannot go into details about what happened there, but I will tell you that it failed (for the same reason that everything else failed), and the case was sent back to the courtroom.
In retrospect, I am glad that mediation did fail. After seeing that Apple sent two guys ⦠two guys who were in continuous contact with Apple legal via text and cell ⦠I knew that I was outgunned, outspent, and out-everything elsed. $500,000,000,000 vs. $37 and a pack of chewing gum is not a fair fight. Because of this, I offered settlements that were ridiculously favorable to Apple and unfavorable to myself, but even these were rejected. Thank goodness that they were.
After failing mediation, shortly after 11am, we were called before the judge, sworn in, and I read my opening statement. I said basically everything Iâ(TM)ve been saying on this blog for the last several months. I stuck to the facts, handed my exhibits to the clerk (several printed pages), an
Life is what happens to you while you are busy making other plans. No-one sees motorcycles
Apple has got away with too many defects for which it does not take responsibility. The worst was the useless replacement program for their 17 inch AV monitors in the 1990s. Others include poorly designed adapters and defective CD drives.
Keeping them from being unchallenged is.
Right, you're keeping it going, then bitching that the apologists are coming out of the woodwork. It reminds me of an email I got from a friend once, 3 pages of whining that her RSI was acting up.
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
"wouldn't boot" is pretty general... Apple's Repair Extension Programs cover specific models, for a limited additional duration, that are demonstrating specific symptoms which are being caused by a very specific problem.
We get people in from time to time with a computer that has an REP on that model, and they're expecting Apple to cover something else out of warranty. And we get people demanding we "fix" the computer simply because there is an REP on that model even though it's working fine. That's not how REPs work. (we had a school show up with a panel van FULL of emacs that were listed on an REP, we tested ALL of them and repaired TWO)
If it powered on, and chimed (possibly after clearing pram to turn the volume back up) but showed no video, and could be heard to boot up (hdd access) and possibly even get interaction from it (turning volume up and down and hearing the reply) and external video was also dead, THAT should be covered and I would be surprised if they didn't cover it. All AASPs were given a special tool to test the computer and verify the problem also, and this test could be run after the video was out, OR before it was out, and could identify a computer that was beginning to fail, even if the symptoms were very minor or infrequent. If it was demonstrating symptoms, this test should have been run on your computer. Users tend to put off taking computers in for service, so only about 3% of the machines I saw with this problem still had usable video by the time they checked them in.
However, if it failed to turn on, or failed to post at all, no, that's not the issue the REP was for, that's not a video problem, and you were not entitled to coverage by this REP. I also ran into a couple that were having "no video" problems but that didn't fail the special test app, those users had to pay for their repair because it was the same part, but not the same cause.
I won't say that every AASP and Apple Store does the right thing. I'm just sayin' how it's supposed to work, and how I make it work here. If you still think they didn't react correctly, call applecare (even now) and talk with them about it. I've seen them make things right for people outwards of 5 years after purchase, with a discount on a new machine for example.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
Yep... but as the machine not booting seemed the actual problem that necessitated repair in the first place, it had not occurred to me that this was actually all there was to it... I had instead figured that the article was missing some details on the policy.
mark-t meet Apple. ;)
Apple is responsible for the products it supplies. It is up to Apple to seek damages from Nvidia, not the consumers.
If you had bothered to read the article, you would have learned that it doesn't cost Apple a dime for the repair:
So, it costs Apple nothing for the repair, Apple promised to do the repair, and then Apple refuses the repair and sends two people to contest the lawsuit.
Apple is just being their usual asshole selves, but this time it is clearly obvious.
If I knew that video card 123abc had a record of failing I would avoid that video card in any product no matter who it was from. Then again I try to be an informed customer. Not everyone is. As others have stated, people go to the company they bought the item from when it fails.
Apple is a pain in the ass when it come to their stuff breaking. They have their own tools and tests that they run. For example: we have an iMac with bad memory. Memtest shows errors every time. We bring the under warrantee iMac to Apple to replace the memory. The Imac is fired up at teh Apple store. It fails to boot and only beeps. It is the memory beep according to the 4 Apple store people. A few more boot attempts, the iMac boots but has trouble booting from their USB drive. They take the Imac to run their memory tests on the iMac. A few days later they tell us the Imac is repaired. What was done? Nothing. They found nothing wrong. We take the Imac back. It has the same errors as before. Again, memtest shows errors. This time we just replace the memory ourselves. Now there is no issue. If Apple had used memtest they would have seen the errors. They have to use Apple approved tests. There are free tests for memory and other things that can be used. We can prove that the memory has bad sectors. According to Apple, that doesn't matter since their tests says otherwise. I did ask for a printout, screen shot, something of the test. They could not provide that. They also said that we could not run the test ourselves. When the other Imacs showed signs of the same problem (all bought at the same time). We ran memtest, again bad memory. We just replaced it rather then going to Apple. No need for the longer down time and the headache from the Apple repair people.
Vertu, Lamborghini, Gucci etc. are premium luxury brands, Apple is not even close to them in terms of quality, even if some people blinded by Apple PR believe they are. I used to be a mac user for over 15 years (until I completely switched to Windows 7 a couple of years ago) and the amount of defective hardware I saw from Apple, both my own and the others' close to me, was staggering. I agree with the rest of your post completely. Apple only cares about money, and the blind followers, who think they are special for using exactly the same kind of Apple hardware with millions and millions of people, just eat everything up thinking they are part of something better. Branding really is everything. And I'm not saying Apple doesn't make good hardware or hasn't been a great influence in GUI development, but the halo attached to Apple is just disturbing. It's just a tech company with a generally better attention to detail, nothing more, nothing less.
The one thing I don't understand is his comment that it might be difficult to collect the award. In the UK, you can get bailiffs in to seize goods to the value of the court award, or if you are feeling really evil, for amounts over £750 (about $1300) you can apply to have the company made bankrupt unless they immediately pay up.
It has been known for people with awards against major supermarkets to get the bailiffs to turn up at a large store one day, and either empty all the tills, or remove bottles of alcohol sufficient to cover the debt - usually much to the amusement of watching customers.
Is this not possible in his part of the USA?
Yes, Charlie is a known nVidia basher, but he backed up his findings in bumpgate. http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1049921/inquirer-confirms-apple-macbook-pros-nvidia-bad-bump-material Google bumpgate and you will find many articles about Nvidia paying OEMs hundreds of millions for their faulty graphics chips.
Thing is, Apple does live up to it. I had a MBP with a defective GPU and Apple replaced it for me.
I don't know the back story about this issue, but it's hard to reconcile what I read on the Internet with what I personally experienced without believing that the entire story hasn't been divulged.
My personal experience trumps your ... anything.
- real hackers don't have sigs -
I asked this on reddit, and got no answer. All this hoopla is based on an anonymous blog. I've googled around and I can't find anyone reporting this story who isn't just pasting details from the blog. No one knows the guys name. No one knows the court docket #, the date the case was heard or even what court heard the case. Do we have any evidence that this incident actually occurred?
Clear, Dark Skies
That was blamed, but Apple was hardly the only manufacturer with this problem - my ASUS laptop had its GPU blow twice, once well after the problem was revealed and that chip actually lasted about a year longer than its replacement (unfortunately, the laptop was out of warranty by the second failure), so I personally feel the 8600M line was defective and prone to overheating and that nVidia was covering it up. The die shrink that was the same architecture but reduced heat had a MUCH lower failure rate (the 9xxx line) - in fact, the laptop I replaced my ASUS with (an HP) had a 9800M GT, and the GPU never was a problem (the laptop itself was a nightmare of problems, especially after the 1 year warranty ended - display failed, disk failed, fan sounds like a banshee [probably ball bearings], touch sensor went wonky and randomly disconnects the wireless and changes sound levels, etc).
Anyhow, nVidia can blame whoever they want, but I won't believe it. I know they wanted to save face and I certainly don't blame them for it, but everyone has a lemon once in a while, and the 8xxx line was nVidias. If it's any consolation, I've had more problems with ATI cards, though there it tends to be driver issues that are eventually resolved.
I'm amazed at how nVidia tried pawning this one on the OEMs, insisting nothing is wrong when thousands of HP, Dell, Lenovo, and Apple Laptops were having GPU blowouts.
The 8800 also gets lots of attention, but the Geforce Go 6150 and 7200 chips delaminate in huge quantities as well. My HP laptop was sent away once on warranty work when the wireless card dropped out (first sign of a failure). It's now dissapeared again and out of warranty. Surprising the lazy-man reflow actually works:
-Remove battery and HDD
-Turn machine on and wrap in blankets
-Allow to cook for a couple hours.
-Replace battery and HDD.
I don't detect any fear, uncertainty or doubt about the facts of this particular case. Apple had its day in court. The facts seem quite clear.
There is nothing, including the negative reaction of practically everyone other than Apple Kool-Aid (tm) drinkers, that they should not have seen coming.
It's a terrifically interesting and newsworthy story. The only thing missing is Tim Cook's answer to the question, "Why?"
F0ck Apple... and Facebook.
After nVidia caused thousands of users to pay to repair their laptops or replace the computer, I'm happy that they're pretty much pushed out of the mainstream market with AMD/ATI and Intel offering solutions integrated in the CPU.
My EVGA Geforce 7600GT still works (driving my wife's non gaming computer). Too bad Sapphire was about the opposite - the ATI Sapphire card I bought never worked properly, and I kept sending it back to them as defective and they kept sending me back the same card and told me it was not, even after I told them that they needed to run the card with accelerated graphics on for about 3-5 minutes to see the problem (it BSoD'd, and it did not with the old card or the one I later replaced it with). I never got a working card - I got sick of paying shipping and arguing with them and just bought a different card for that box (after paying $100 for the card and over $50 in shipping fees). That was also the last ATI card I ever bought, but I've only bought two cards since - the one that replaced the Sapphire and one I put in a new box.
Your replacement wwas a bottom of the line Compaq because that was what was stipulated in the court-ordered settlement agreed to by the attorneys representing you and the attorneys representing NVidia. That NVidia bargained for the cheapest way out and was only ordered to pay for the cheapest replacement possible from each of the respective manufacturers to whom they supplied the defective parts is in now way HP's fault.
To be clear, the HP laptop that they replaced my Compaq with was one of the affected models, as well, so I did follow the class action. Of course, by the time I knew there even was a class action, that laptop was 2 months out of warranty, had died (bad GPU), and had been sold on eBay as a parts-or-repair system, so I didn't recieve a replacement.
NVidia was the one being sued, not HP. The settlement put a minimum value on the replacement equipment to be provided. NVidia arranged with HP to reimburse them for any replacements provided as a result of the settlement and dictated that the replacement equipment must be the least expensive equipment available that met the minimum value requirement, in order for them to be reimbursed by NVidia. What was HP supposed to do? Take a loss to fix NVidia's screwup?
I, too, avoid HP products, and have for the last 4 years or so, but not because of NVidia's screw up. HP has always stepped up to take care of me when I've asked them to; the problem is that their quality is so poor, I found myself asking a lot.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
I had the same failure arise with the Nvidia Geforce Go 7900 GS chipset in a Toshiba Satellite P105-S9337 model laptop. The laptop was out of warranty. In this instance, though, the graphics were a separate discrete board. After being fully ignored by Toshiba, I began looking for used, refurbished, or 'pre-owned' replacements. I had also modded the laptop to force the GPU fan to draw power from a nearby USB port, thus forcing it to run continuously in the hope of preventing symptoms. (It didn't, really.) I knew the chipset itself was essentially defective, but it's not a guarantee that every chip will fail, so I was hoping to get lucky. I found an eBay seller, a liquidation business, that was selling a whole batch of allegedly refurbished ones, and for much less than I had seen them previously. I purchased two. One of the two boards was still faulty, and the seller replaced it; the other one wasn't actually what I had ordered: in fact it was a Geforce Go 7900 GTX, a slightly upscale version and with more onboard VRAM. I discovered that it was compatible with my system, though I was concerned about the potential heat generation. I wound up keeping both, installing the replaced 7900 GS and keeping the 7900 GTX as a spare. Thus far the laptop has continued working, but I certainly suffered a substantial net loss over the whole affair, in actual material cost and labor and time. I wish I'd had the opportunity and courage to do what this fellow did, but since I has a system out of warranty it would have been more difficult.
I also had a similar problem with a cherished 21-inch Nokia CRT monitor years ago. Six years after I bought it, it failed. I wanted very much to get it repaired. I discovered that in the meantime Nokia had abandoned the display market, selling its brand name to Viewsonic and the manufacturing to another Finnish company. When I contacted Viewsonic, they told me there were no spare parts for it, and refused to replace it with an equivalent Viewsonic model (which I really didn't want). That Finnish company had apparently stopped making Nokia display parts, and Viewsonic refused to otherwise honor its obligations from acquiring the brand name. I even contacted Nokia and tried to persuade them to pressure Viewsonic, but nothing came of it. I didn't create enough of a public relations fiasco. I finally contacted numerous third-party repair services, but each one also told me nothing could be done as parts were not available.
You might be thinking to yourself, "Dude, it's six years old, what do you expect?" I happen to live in California, and this state has a so-called "lemon law" that attempts to force manufacturers to not... well, sell lemons! It stipulates that any product - not just the automobiles with which it's usually associated - with a manufactured cost over $100 should be repairable for a period of no less than 7 years from the date of manufacture. That means the manufacture is obligated to make available the parts and service materials necessary for repairs for those 7 years, and if not to otherwise make amends for failure to do so.
Obviously Viewsonic had failed to do that. Because of that lemon law I had an open and shut case, had I taken Viewsonic to court here in California. I didn't, but again I wish I had.
My point in sharing these anecdotes is that this is a consistent pattern of behavior with all manufacturers, not just one or two or a handful of them. It's endemic to the system we've allowed to take hold. It's this unfair system that makes consumers the inferior party in transactions with these manufacturers that motivated California's lemon law in the first place. It SHOULD be a Federal law applicable in every state. Better yet a globally recognized law.
Just imagine what he could have achieved with a working GPU...
I've never heard of anything of the sort in the US.
It is possible to do that in many parts of the United States. There was a story about a couple sending the Sheriff to a Bank of America branch to seize assets to pay a court-ordered judgement that Bank of America declined to pay.
The specific rules probably vary by state and possibly by municipality.
After nVidia caused thousands of users to pay to repair their laptops or replace the computer,
If you had read the furfuraceous article, you would know that nVidia would actually refund the entire cost of the repair to the manufacturer. Only problem, Apple decided it was more fun to screw the customer anyway.
this post contain no useful information, no need to mod it down
Really? Because the sheer volume of replacements that would have ensued would have damaged Apple's partner relationship with nvidia. There's your answer.
Yes. Yes, I would make it an issue with Lotus still. Considering I didn't buy a Toyota, I could care less about them. Lotus would be the one that has to go after Toyota for the issue and keep their customers happy.
Are you also implying that we should never fault Apple for any manufacturing defects in their products if they are made by a third party? Good luck pursuing a Chinese factory for replacements if anything breaks.
Personally, as an owner of an affected MBP that failed 3+ years after purchase, I feel bad picking on Apple because they replaced my entire logic board for free without any kind of AppleCare plan. Obviously this guy had a different experience, but I'm basing my feelings on my own experience, not his.
Why should the haters be the ones to stop when the apologists continue to spout nonsense and lies? Contrariwise, why should the apologists back down when the haters continue to spout nonsense and lies. It's not like either side has clean hands and deserves a default "win". The only real solution is to get the ones that spout nonsense on both sides to shut up. And...good luck with that! :)
The only real solution is to get the ones that spout nonsense on both sides to shut up. And...good luck with that! :)
Agreed.
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
I'm typing this on a MacBook that Apple gave me. You see, my previous had failed and been repaired twice. On the third failure, they gave me a brand new machine. Not identical to the old one, but a brand new one. This is Apple's "three strikes" policy. If a machine needs a third repair, in warrenty or under Apple Care, just pick out a new one with the same size, hard drive, and memory as the defective one.
That's doing right.
Yeah, that's the part that I thought was absurd. Apple was being paid the ENTIRE REPAIR COST by nVidia and they still thought it would be a good idea to screw their own customers. I hope that guy gets his money. When you win in small claims court, you have to collect your winnings yourself.
God is imaginary
although admittedly the article was sketchy on what policies those were that would actually deny the repair.
I'm sure the two people representing Apple were also sketchy as to what those policies are. Remember that courts are fairly open and Apple doesn't discuss these policies in the open.
Yet another case of someone winning just by being a big bully instead of on the merits.
What kind of flamebait is this story? I bought the very same top of the line Macbook pro from the effected years. It's maximum cost fully fleshed out was $2500 for the best of everything Apple offered, yet this story indicates it cost him some $4000 dollars.
As to the cause of the failure, the issue with the video cards created a very specific problem (black screen/flickering, or white screen). The Macbook would still boot (you could hear it do so and even see various services like iChat start via online presence). I should know, as I was also affected by this issue. Apple replaced my motherboard free of charge at 3 years and 10 months without charge, even though I had never purchased an extended warranty, or anything of the sort.
The difference? Mine matched the symptoms of the failure, not a general motherboard failure.
Why are we picking on Apple and not the GPU manufacturers here?
Gees what's next? Don't blame poor Apple if the button on your ipad is broken, blame Foxconn!
I agree with you in general, however I would argue the McDonald's bit. If you eat there, you deserve anything you get.
If you had bothered to read the article
You must be new here.
I'm going to have to disagree. The symptoms included other parts failing due to the excess heat generated by the GPU. The most common preliminary indication of the problem on HP notebooks was the wireless chip failing. The wireless chip was located in close proximity to the GPU. It would get so hot, that the solder would melt. As you stated in your other post, frequent heating and cooling would cause the connections to become faulty. Therefore, one temporary fix was to let the notebook heat up, then place something heavy on the keyboard directly above the wireless card, and keep it there until the notebook cooled back down.
In addition, when I was getting ready to file suit against HP, had a script set up in a cron job to monitor the GPU temperature and record it to a log file including the date and time. I used the nvidia-settings executable with something like:
/usr/bin/nvidia-settings -q '[gpu:0]/GPUCoreTemp' | grep Attribute
The temperature was consistently greater than 100 degrees Celsius, sometimes much higher, and the notebook was not being used for gaming or anything else that would tax the GPU.
Now, unless you are saying that the weak die/packaging material was used elsewhere throughout the board, and the entire notebook should be able to withstand these temperatures, then I cannot agree.
Insightful? Really?
in 2008 h1, the 17" macbook pro with 2.6ghz upgrade was close to $3000. if this idiot actually bought ram and hdd upgrades from Apple, it's entirely possible to shove the price into the stratosphere.
I liked the part where he even got Applecare refunded.
Apple's not close to Lamborghini in quality?
Aventador guy disagrees.
I guess I've had good luck with Apple kit. I still use an 8 yr old PowerBook, and my iPad has yet to spontaneously combust.
1984 was supposed to be a warning, not an instruction manual.
The symptoms of 'GPU Failure' are wide and varied. While 'flickering' is the most VISIBLE symptom it is by no means the only one. The effects of such a scenario can range from silent random occasional memory corruption that could go unnoticed for months and be mistaken as dodgy software or driver issues, to excessive overheating resulting in the chip exploding (RARE but I've seen it once. Keep in mind the amount of current these things draw..) and everything in between.
/validated in court).
I'm glad Apple replaced your laptop, but we're not talking about your case here are we? We're talking about this other guy's case where Apple actually refused to keep good on their pledge which had effectively become a warranty (now
This may have been Nvidia's problem, but Apple is somewhat nefarious for problems like this going back over (almost?) 10 years. I've seen 5 different models of Apple laptop have BGA issues (some of which were able to be re-flowed, others were not). I'm not familiar with the 8400 issue, but the fact remains that Apple has always been fairly shit about honoring their hardware problems, in my experience. Even the major PC manufacturers that sucked (eg. Dell, at the time) did better during the capacitor issues circa 2003-2004 manufacturing.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
2007 Macbook Pro, identification string "MacBookPro3,1". Four logic board replacements, one borderline.
When I was in college I worked two summers and sold my old Macbook to pay for this beast; I also bought AppleCare. It was an expensive laptop, but it performed admirably; it was basically top of the line in its time. Then things in Half-Life 2 started turning purple randomly. It didn't take much longer until trying to play Team Fortress caused BSoDs once the GPU had a chance to heat up. Then it got worse - I could boot up, but the screen was dead. They ordered me a new logic board, and the champ was back in business. Fast forward about three months, and the game I was playing had random horizontal lines on the screen. New logic board, no problem. Actually, there was a problem - the first replacement didn't finish booting once before the GPU failed; this one could at this point give me a text terminal, but any graphics were right out. Fortunately, the shop was booting it up on their bench to demonstrate their repair, so they had a new board overnighted in the next ten minutes, and the next afternoon I had another new board.
The next time it gave out - three months and a week, like clockwork, I escalated my tech support call. I got a department Apple will deny existing, called something to the effect of "Customer Solutions". These exist above first-line tech support (who are fairly knowledgeable and very useful), and above the engineers that they turn to when first-line efforts fail. They offered me a new laptop, with "like for like" - nothing worse than my old machine, except I lost the ExpressCard|34 slot on the 2009 model they gave me; while I'd like a USB 3.0 port, I must admit the ExpressCard slot mostly held an SD card adapter.
After that, I tried to get them to take the aftermarket hard drive out of my defective machine and put it in the new unit. They wanted to charge me $150 for the privilege of doing the deed without voiding my warranty at the local Apple store, and (remember: college!) I didn't have the money. I was about to leave with a broken computer in the hopes that I could work something out with phone support, but as I was packing my computer to go, the third-line person escalated my case. Again. I gave them the name of the store manager, and they hung up. She disappeared a few moments later after taking a call on her two-way radio. Ten minutes later, she came back looking rather startlingly meek - having started this day long escapade being painfully stubborn about this "nominal" charge that was nothing of the sort in my collegiate financial condition. She also had a laptop box in her hand, and told me she would have my hard drive in my hands more or less "immediately".
My takeaways?
Apple corporate was willing to grab the manager of their flagship store (at the time) by the (metaphorical) balls, shake briefly, and tell her to sit down and shut up or else.
Apple corporate was willing to face this problem head-on, and stands behind their products.
Apple has some bad apples at the local level (and it came out that this apple store was known as the least friendly in town, when I spoke to an Apple employee).
The unibody Macbook Pro is a downright pleasure to work on, once you get past the Loctite Blue.
The 2007 Macbook Pro used Kapton "space tape" to keep some internal parts in place.
AppleCare is worth its weight in gold.
The 2009 model really should be considered to have a user serviceable battery, as it's an easier swap than the hard drive; I just think they didn't want people trying to change their batteries on an airplane, or something similarly stupid.
Carrying around an unprotected MBP battery now is something similarly stupid, as they're almost as fragile as bare cells.
While talking to the Apple rep who specced out my replacement system, it came out that only 15% of users used the ExpressCard slot, and around 90% of them used it for a memory card reader, but I still want USB 3.0 now.
Unlike other laptops, the unibody Macbook Pro has easily cleaned fans.
If Apple does not apologize publicly for the way they treated this guys as well as the other untold number of customers who bought their defective hardware, this is going to simply cost them a lot of money.
I, for one, will not buy another piece of hardware from Apple until they issue a statement. And I'm a customer from wayyy back.
Are you new here? A slashdot user has to hate Apple. It is the most popular way to look smart. We can't be like those Apple fanboys, can we?
In December 2008 I purchased a Dell XPS M1330 laptop with a Nvidia 8600m GT and experienced the same problem. I learned this year that in response to the failing GPUs, Dell extended my warranty by 1 year. However, Dell failed to convey that message to me directly so by the time I was aware of this malfunction my extended warranty had expired. Now they won't take responsibility for their defective product. What can I do?
Well I am in a similar situation.
My Macbook pro has had this issue twice before. Both times it got fixed while the program was still running. My laptop has just reached the end of that 4 year agreement and it has now just happened a 3rd time.
I rang apple and as a result i now have an unusable laptop that has been affected 3 times by the defective GPU problem, and i have to foot the bill if i decide i want to repair it.
Does Apple pay all these people to astroturf here? Given that they'd send two attorneys to a small claims court, I would imagine so!
When I worked at Apple, I saw with my own eyes employees "astroturfing" forums, sometimes during the Apple Keynotes as they were being simulcast to the lunchroom at Infinite Loop One. (It was funny because it looked like a scene from the 1984 commercial: everyone sitting around watching a giant face on a big screen.)
I had the same issue with my MBP. However, I tried to get it repaired before they even acknowledged the program. I went to the Apple store and they bascially said I abused my computer along with other nonsense. I later showed up with nvidias press release stating that the GPUs were faulty, but Apple still hadn't recognized the problem yet, and gave me a $700 something repair quote. Oh, and it happened to be about a week outside my 1 year warranty. I desperately needed a computer at the time, so I didn't wait around to play games.
Luckily I purchased it with my American Express card, which doubles the warranty. I called a rep and told them the deal (less than 5 minutes on the phone), they overnighted me a box and refunded me the purchase cost the next day. Never buying Apple again.
Funny enough, about 3 weeks later, when I already had my new non-Apple computer, I got a call from the Apple store manager saying they would now repair my MBP and give me $100 off the purchase of a new one if I wanted to go that route.
Of some person with a Macbook, holding a defective GPU in his hands and beating an apple with it.
They replaced the board a full 18 months out of warranty. They could stand to better inform the Geniuses. I did have to escalate my issue to the manager both when I brought it in and picked it up. I also had to show them their own knowledge base article and explain it to them.
And that's just what HP did for me when it was determined that my Compaq laptop was a lemon.
That's what they did for some models of HP laptops that used the shoddy 8600M that overheated and burned themselves out, but not all of them, despite there being a 96-page thread of HP dv9600 laptop owners complaining of video burnouts that HP refused to do anything about.
Not that I'm bitter or anything.
Oh, it took me having the battery and HDD replaced under warranty, then sending it in for a CPU replacement and getting it back missing half the case screws and the media keys not working, then they declared it a lemon and replaced it. No video issues on that Compaq, though.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Hey, it made some damn good lemonaid. Actually sold it for parts 14mo later for more than I originally paid for the Compaq. Not a bad deal, if you ask me; 2 years of computing and turning a profit.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Because they admitted in court that it would not cost them anything to fix it, nVidia was paying the bill, but they still refused and they didn't even have an argument on why they were refusing.
Actually, yes, they gave a reason. The machine didn't boot, so they couldn't confirm that there was something wrong with the GPU. And no, not booting was not a usual symptom of the GPU problem.
Apple breeds haters by being evil. The haters hate evil, see? Apple is just a high concentration of evil, that is why it attracts haters.
Bullshit- the haters love it when Evil tells them they don't be evil.