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Phoronix Confirms GNU/Linux Steam and Source Engine Clients

nukem996 writes "After initially reporting in 2010 that Valve was working on a native GNU/Linux client, one has finally been confirmed. Michael Larabel recently visited Valve's Bellvue, WA based office and has been able to see it himself. Included in the article are screenshots of the client running and speculation of a release." Valve has yet to officially comment, but you'd hope they wouldn't invite someone up to their offices and send them home to spew lies.

324 comments

  1. Good luck by crazyjj · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I know this isn't going to be a popular sentiment on /., but a Steam Linux client is going to please the Linux community for all of about 5 minutes. The applause won't even have died down before they're bitching that there aren't enough games, it's not open source, it doesn't look right in their obscure distro of choice, etc.

    The Linux community *should* embrace and celebrate this, but my experience has been that a large (or at least largely vocal) part of that community is made up of idealists and professional bitchers who think everything should be open source and free. Introducing a closed source client that charges for games into that group isn't going to please them. Nothing is going to please them.

    Okay, now everyone mod me troll for pointing out something you know is true.

    --
    What political party do you join when you don't like Bible-thumpers *or* hippies?
    1. Re:Good luck by schitso · · Score: 5, Insightful

      While it's true that some people are like that, it's unfortunate that your experience with the Linux community left you with the impression that most are like that.
      That hasn't been my impression, at least. Maybe I'm too much of an idealist.

    2. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not true that nothing will please them. In fact you have already written yourself what will...

    3. Re:Good luck by ledow · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't think so.

      With Steam on the platform (closed or not), it provides an easy and viable source of customers for companies that produce games. Now there's no excuse not to make Windows, Mac & Linux versions when you already push out Windows & Mac versions.

      Sure there'll be a lot of die-hards but they can waddle off into their gameless PC's if they want. But the gamers who currently have Windows and Linux PC's - this gives them incentive to game on Linux, which gives others incentive to make games for Linux.

      A lot of the big indie titles already work on Linux, it's just a matter of there not being enough and Steam revolutionised Windows gaming when it arrived, why not Linux gaming now? There are any number of app-stores out there for Linux but a gaming-centric, game-developer-supported one is a big plus.

      Linux-native versions of quite a lot of games, and support for cross-platform programming being rife even if under-used, this could really boost the casual/indie game market and also mean that maybe some of the big developers that we've been telling people for YEARS should just be pushing out a Linux binary too might actually follow suit. There's no reason that gaming on Linux can't be as popular and successful as gaming on Windows.

      And having a few hundred indie games shoved onto the platform with a "one-click download" install that users are familiar with and might even get "free" games for (if they own the Mac/Windows version, for example) can't be a bad thing, even if it never really takes off.

    4. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      In any other arena I would agree with you, but in the arena of games I think they have a shot. In my experience, gamers (even Linux gamers) tend to be forgiving of closed-source software. To some extent, they're even forgiving of light-handed DRM (and as DRM goes, Valve's is about as light-handed as it gets). If even half a dozen A+ titles make it to Linux, I suspect a lot of people will purchase them just so that they can dump their dual-boot. I would.

      Yes, there will still be the cries of the "DRM is evil, keep it out of our holy land" zealots, but I think those voices will pale compared to the game nerds (like me) who want to play nice looking video games without compatibility libs or dual-booting. For my own selfish reasons, I hope I'm right.

    5. Re:Good luck by lattyware · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't think that's really true. There are some people out there who think closed software is a crime against humanity, but to be frank, those people are generally not gamers. Gamers are used to a system where you are lucky not to be forced to play on closed hardware, let alone just on closed software on an open OS.

      I think the reality is Steam is a good idea (if not implemented perfectly) and Valve are a company that are almost universally doing things right. They make some of the best games ever created, and do it pretty ethically. It's not really surprising they'd be the folks to look at Linux first.

      Valve care about the consumer, and that is more important, I think, that whether or not it's open or closed. If a product is good, I'll use it. I mostly use open source software as, for what I need, I find it's generally best, but there are exceptions (I'm a big fan of PyCharm, the python IDE which is closed source).

      Most people will love this, and for good reason. Good games on a good platform can only be a good thing, and it means we might start to see the barrier breaking down, and people producing for Linux because suddenly there is a way to do it more easily.

      --
      -- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
    6. Re:Good luck by RoboJ1M · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I won't.
      I'll be dancing in the goddamn street with a crowbar.
      I've been watching with interest the burgeoning Linux games industry and it's about to go critical with this, that's for sure.
      It's not just Steam, it's Source.
      So that's the back library taken care of.
      And now I can play keyboard/mouse games again for the first time since I abandoned the Windows world! YAY!

    7. Re:Good luck by Quazion · · Score: 1

      Maybe its not to please the die hard linux community, but its great for the average linux Joe.
      I would love to play the steam games (LFD2 for example) I own under Linux.

      Personally I think crossplatform game developement should be the norm and bringing steam to every platform might help.

    8. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's not that most are like that, it's that most of the really vocal people are.

    9. Re:Good luck by lattyware · · Score: 2

      Exactly - if there was one game engine to see under Linux, it's Source. I mean, you have a lot of the best games ever made under one banner right there.

      --
      -- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
    10. Re:Good luck by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 4, Insightful

      part of that community is made up of idealists and professional bitchers who think everything should be open source and free

      This may come as a shock, but GNU is maintained by the Free Software Foundation, so in some sense the entire point of GNU/Linux is to be free/libre.

      Really though, there are more than just philosophical reasons for proprietary software in GNU/Linux being a bad thing. If I compile my program in Ubuntu, will you be able to run it in Gentoo? There are an enormous number of incompatible distributions out there, and I doubt that Steam will be available on all of them. In practical terms, proprietary software for GNU/Linux is difficult to push for this very reason, so there are two outcomes:

      1. Whatever distros popular proprietary software is available for become the distros that people use, thus allowing proprietary software vendors to exert control over the community. This already happens with some packages; we really do not need more.
      2. Steam becomes irrelevant on GNU/Linux because it does not work everywhere, and then the short-lived experiment dies. This has also happened with other software in the past.
      --
      Palm trees and 8
    11. Re:Good luck by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1, Funny

      it's unfortunate that your experience with the Linux community left you with the impression that most are like that.

      Indeed! I would prefer if Microsoft astroturfers' experience with the Linux community entirely consisted of being punched in the face.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    12. Re:Good luck by sl4shd0rk · · Score: 2

      going to please the Linux community for all of about 5 minutes.

      Your comment fit better 10 years ago. The Linux crowd has grown considerably away from the Stallman-esque era. There are regular people using it now who would never get the difference between free and "free". I think Steam has a good chance, but there had better be some good ports of popular titles or the whole thing is pointless.

      There are a many,many Linux users who will gladly pay the $50.00 for the latest title on Linux before dealing with the Mac or Win empires.

      --
      Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
    13. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know this isn't going to be a popular sentiment on /., but a Steam Linux client is going to please the Linux community for all of about 5 minutes. The applause won't even have died down before they're bitching that there aren't enough games, it's not open source, it doesn't look right in their obscure distro of choice, etc.

      The Linux community *should* embrace and celebrate this, but my experience has been that a large (or at least largely vocal) part of that community is made up of idealists and professional bitchers who think everything should be open source and free. Introducing a closed source client that charges for games into that group isn't going to please them. Nothing is going to please them.

      Okay, now everyone mod me troll for pointing out something you know is true.

      I think it might be about as useful as the IOS and Android versions, a chat client and store interface. You'd know when your friends are all on to boot into Windows for actual gaming. I don't see how that affects Valve's bottom line though.

      And... Yah then there's the purists who talk the loudest you mentioned.

    14. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You are stuck in the slashdot of 10 years ago. Today, attacking Linux users gets you easy karma.

    15. Re:Good luck by at_slashdot · · Score: 1

      Why do you care about the feelings of the "community"?

      A thing is good or bad in itself (make your own opinion), it doesn't matter what is the opinion of some vocal people, especially that they don't get to contribute code to the client, it would be more relevant if the client were open source but is not.

      --
      "It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." -- Prof. Dumbledore
    16. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Whatever distros popular proprietary software is available for become the distros that people use, thus allowing proprietary software vendors to exert control over the community. This already happens with some packages; we really do not need more.

      Your logic fails here. If you, as a libre proponent, don't want to use proprietary software then just don't use it. How could proprietary vendors exert any control over you if they aren't offering anything you care to use? If there are people in the Linux community who want to use proprietary software, then let them, and if they are "controlled" by those vendors then so be it, as long as they are happy. Their choice of software does not limit your libre software selection, and as such you shouldn't be trying to limit others' choices (regardless of your philosophical stance).

    17. Re:Good luck by causality · · Score: 3, Informative

      I won't. I'll be dancing in the goddamn street with a crowbar. I've been watching with interest the burgeoning Linux games industry and it's about to go critical with this, that's for sure. It's not just Steam, it's Source. So that's the back library taken care of. And now I can play keyboard/mouse games again for the first time since I abandoned the Windows world! YAY!

      Don't know about you, but I have always had good luck playing Windows games via Wine. That includes Steam games. I'm currently playing Skyrim this way.

      The number of games that don't work via Wine is an ever-shrinking list, though you may have to acquaint yourself with Winetricks and the AppDB. While a native Steam/Source client is only going to improve things for you, to speak as though there were no way at all to play keyboard/mouse games without Windows is simply not true. I've been doing it for years now.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    18. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Hate to break it to you, but for the reasons you mentioned, gamers are typically not Linux-users. So the people that do use Linux will typically care less about games, so as much as I hope Valve succeeds in making Steam for Linux a viable product, I'm afraid the target audience will be pretty small.

      Realistically, I think we should just hope that Valve won't kill the port after its first year if sales are disappointing and the product (and its Linux-supporting catalog) is allowed to mature and grow as Linux becomes attractive to more and more people (including gamers) over time.

    19. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think most of us justs wants to have competing choices. No matter open or closed. At this point, linux-based are the only options.
      I would like to use more any linux distro, but the lack of applications (open or closed) is forcing me to the monopolys lap.

    20. Re:Good luck by h4rr4r · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They should mod you down for being wrong. Those you speak of are the loudest voices only. In reality lots of linux users are already running these games in wine, and would welcome official support. I am one of those users.

    21. Re:Good luck by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I know this isn't going to be a popular sentiment on /., but a Steam Linux client is going to please the Linux community for all of about 5 minutes. The applause won't even have died down before they're bitching that there aren't enough games, it's not open source, it doesn't look right in their obscure distro of choice, etc.

      The Linux community *should* embrace and celebrate this, but my experience has been that a large (or at least largely vocal) part of that community is made up of idealists and professional bitchers who think everything should be open source and free. Introducing a closed source client that charges for games into that group isn't going to please them. Nothing is going to please them.

      Okay, now everyone mod me troll for pointing out something you know is true.

      I suspect that it won't be a major issue: Obviously, Free Software Only people aren't going to bite; but that is to be expected. Non-gamers won't care, also expected, and pretty much anybody gaming on Linux is already probably resigned to closed source binaries: their graphics drivers if nothing else(and presumably most of the games that they've coaxed into working under WINE(maybe there are a few OSS games with such strong Windows ties that WINE is easier than a port; but I'm having a hard time thinking of any). Intel OSS drivers are OK; but intel GPUs are not really gaming material. AMD is on the right trajectory; but the latest more-or-less-fully-ironed-out FOSS 3D support is for R200 parts, which aren't exactly screamers, and Nvidia's position on OSS drivers is "Well, it needs to be good enough so that the customer can see what they are doing as they download and install our binary driver."

      I don't know how the numbers break down between purist users and nonpurist users; but the ratio of 'do-unto-others' purists to everybody else is tiny. Even the big, bad, Godfather of GNU himself merely advises that using closed software is not a good idea, and requests that you comply with the license of GPL software you use. Not terribly scary.

      On a somewhat different topic, this linux release of theirs might have some ties to the persistent rumors of some sort of Valve-blessed hardware configuration providing a console-like package. If they suspect that they can even break even on Steam/Source for Linux, that might improve their prospects of being able to release a valvebox spec that leaves buyers with the extra $100 to spend on games, rather than on Windows. Even people who don't care about freedom care about free, after all.

    22. Re:Good luck by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      > This may come as a shock, but GNU is maintained by the Free Software Foundation, so in some sense the entire point of GNU/Linux is to be free/libre.

      It may come as a shock to you but the commercial games industry has been using libre tools to build their games since before Linux emerged as a potential alternate gaming platform.

      Contrary to the statements of some fear mongers, the Free Software is not incompatible with proprietary commercial enterprises.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    23. Re:Good luck by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      This is ultimately about everyone's ability to make choices in the future without being beholden to what they may have bought in the past.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    24. Re:Good luck by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Ok ok, lets lay off the "best games ever made" rhetoric. There are at least 2 posts on this thread where you are claiming this. I agree with what you are saying, but lets stay away from the absurdly subjective topic of "best game ever". It adds nothing but flame and controversy.

      That being said, porting Source to Linux is almost a bigger deal than Steam. I think this will usher a new era of well produced indy games and cross-platform compatibility. (Presuming people can get their video drivers working.)

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    25. Re:Good luck by rtkluttz · · Score: 4, Interesting

      As long as Steam for linux is what it should be... a portal to purchase games and nothing but that I am all over it packaged in an unannoying executable that I run when and only when ** I ** want it to run on my machine, then I am all over it. If it departs from that, sends any data back home without my approval, tries to add or remove software from my machine, etc. Then I'll burn it with fire. People have a right to protect their software.. but their agreement is with ME, not my hardware. If they use my hardware or software against me they are out. That is the whole reason I am on linux. I control my machine, not someone else.

      --
      Digital is, by definition, imperfect. Analog is the way to go.
    26. Re:Good luck by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      Agreed. I was considering switching my netbook back to Windows so I could play some monkey-island style games on there, but now it looks like I might not have to. Right now I have steam running under Wine, which is a bit of a crutch, but it at least gives me chat functionality.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    27. Re:Good luck by causality · · Score: 1

      Whatever distros popular proprietary software is available for become the distros that people use, thus allowing proprietary software vendors to exert control over the community.

      They might influence things like whether a given file is in /opt instead of /usr/local but these are not major changes and could be remedied with a few symlinks. All free Linux distros use the same broad (upstream) codebase of Open Source software. The differences between them amount to little more than where certain things are located in the filesystem and what is installed by default. Any dependency this native client requires is either exotic (meaning Valve should provide it themselves) or something you could find in any decent distro repository.

      For example, I use Gentoo. I love it, but it's one of the least likely distros for a proprietary software company to standardize on. I'm not worried about this at all, and that's not because I would never consider trying this client.

      For that matter, the Valve installer could locate critical dependencies itself instead of assuming they can only be in a single location. This would have to be done one time and from then on it would work until uninstalled. This just isn't a big deal, but tell me if you think I have it all wrong.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    28. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In turn, sorry to break it to you, but all the Linux users I know are gamers, and would welcome a native Linux version of Steam. The more games we can play without having to reboot the better.

    29. Re:Good luck by Robert+Zenz · · Score: 1

      ...but my experience has been that a large (or at least largely vocal) part of that community is made up of idealists and professional bitchers who think everything should be open source and free.

      Well, yes. But as with every community, FLOSS also has trolls, suckers, whiners and bitches...but everyone else has them too. And those are the loudest of the community. While *some* people will whine all over the internet how bad this is, everyone else will be busy playing games on Steam.

    30. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Could you add a bit of context with the name of the app? Thank you.

    31. Re:Good luck by erroneus · · Score: 1

      I suspect the primary target for such clients will not be for use on the desktop but for set-top-boxes. In those console environments, the configuration is a lot easier to maintain so issues of "not working on my distro" will not be the thing.

      But it is an interesting trend to make things for Linux more and more. I don't think Linux on the desktop will ever be "mainstream" but it will always be there. More and more, people use their computers for the applications and functions they provide and the OS is increasingly less relevant. This fits in nicely with the predictions made about the death and doom of the general purpose home desktop PC in favor of special purpose appliance oriented systems. Apple seems to have bought into that notion to be sure. It would make sense that any party wishing to push their online services would create a Linux based console from which users can access their services. While previous attempts at this have failed (the iOpener and the MSN version of the same) it was simply because the market and the focus were wrong for the time. (They tried to make an "internet appliance" rather than an application specific appliance.)

      So, a set-top-box could conceivably download and install a "steam plugin" and move right along. Anyone ever play with the Samsung bluray players with download app functionality? Care to guess what OS is beneath the sleek user interface?

    32. Re:Good luck by Enderandrew · · Score: 2, Informative

      For what it is worth, ScummVM works just fine on Linux. And many classic DOS point-and-click games also work great in DOSBox on Linux.

      --
      http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
    33. Re:Good luck by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      There are a many,many Linux users who will gladly pay the $50.00 for the latest title on Linux before dealing with the Mac or Win empires.

      ... until the very first instance that Steam DRM gets in the way of them playing games (unexpected outage, for instance). Then will be the nerdrage to end all nerdrages.

      Bear in mind that many Linux users chose Linux for ideological reasons, including opposing vendor lock-in and DRM. Steam on Linux, for many, will be anathema.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    34. Re:Good luck by OliWarner · · Score: 1

      Just a note on the final dig about drivers: when HL2 first came out, there were plenty of video driver issues on Windows. It's not a phenomenon isolated to Linux.

      But yes, distros need to start turning on S3TC support for the Intel drivers. It can be done with PPAs or manually building the driver but it's such a pain in the bum for something that should "just work".

    35. Re:Good luck by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      Your post lacks so much information that it doesn't even qualify as anecdotal evidence.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    36. Re:Good luck by Danzigism · · Score: 1

      As a Linux user for the past 15 years, I will personally use the shit out of a Steam client, and I DGAF about any of the Linux Nazis out there. Most Linux users think this way, as you should too. DGAF..

      --
      *plays the Apogee theme song music*
    37. Re:Good luck by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 1

      lets lay off the "best games ever made" rhetoric.

      Half Life
      Half Life 2, etc.
      Portal
      Portal 2

      I think you can cut GP some slack. He's not totally off his rocker.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    38. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (Original AC following up)

      I know, I understand all the arguments for and against libre philosophy. For what it's worth, I'm a copyleft-ist at heart. However, one thing I cannot comprehend is the attitude that if other people use non-libre software that it could somehow affect my own freedoms. I just don't understand that reasoning. The GP, betterunixthanunix, is very much free to only use libre software, and I applaud that conviction. However, for him/her to then follow up by saying that "proprietary software in GNU/Linux [is] a bad thing" is just insane. How does the mere presence of non-libre software affect those who aren't interested in non-libre software? Yes, the people who choose to use proprietary software are then subject to the vendor's power, but that doesn't affect betterunixthanunix in any way.

    39. Re:Good luck by Kjella · · Score: 1

      The number of games that don't work via Wine is an ever-shrinking list,

      Really? My experience was that it was an ever growing list of new games that did not work. Maybe eventually, somewhat with some tweaks you could almost somehow run them eventually, but many stayed unplayable for years. Of course many games do work so you can game on Linux, but this very much depends on whether you find this a glass half full or glass half empty situation...

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    40. Re:Good luck by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      You are just wrong. I know lots of Linux folks that did not flipout when PS3 network was down for longer than steam has ever had an outage. Some people will rage on slashdot, but that will be it. Most will just do something else. Most Linux users choose it for practical reasons, a very small and vocal group choose it for ideological reasons. Those like any recent converts are the most zealous. Steam on Linux is more choice, which is really what the platform is all about.

    41. Re:Good luck by lattyware · · Score: 1

      Oh, come on, the 'I think' is implied. I love a lot of Valve games, that's all I'm saying. For me, they are some of the best games I've ever played. That's all. Don't take it too seriously.

      --
      -- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
    42. Re:Good luck by somersault · · Score: 2

      But there are a lot of people like me who waver between Windows and Linux simply because of games. I went Linux and PS3 only at home for a few years there, but gave in and got a Windows 7 gaming machine recently to play Skyrim in really high quality, and play a few PC-only games that I'd missed out on over the time.

      If people could do everything on Linux that they can on Windows, but without any license cost, guess which they're going to choose? Windows 7 is okay, but the Linux desktop has been making leaps and bounds over the last few years, and there isn't really much difference between Windows, OSX and the top Linux distros right now.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    43. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Awesome. Who do I ask about it choosing not to be shit?

    44. Re:Good luck by JDG1980 · · Score: 1

      The Half-Life and Portal series are only impressive if you're impressed by FPS. For those of us who consider FPS to be the most overdone, boring game genre ever, this is highly unimpressive.

      The only 3D games I've ever had any interest in were the Zelda series and Dragon Quest VIII. Down with the first-person perspective.

    45. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Cutting edge stuff. Look out, XBox, GNULIX has your number.

    46. Re:Good luck by gmack · · Score: 2

      Really though, there are more than just philosophical reasons for proprietary software in GNU/Linux being a bad thing. If I compile my program in Ubuntu, will you be able to run it in Gentoo? There are an enormous number of incompatible distributions out there, and I doubt that Steam will be available on all of them. In practical terms, proprietary software for GNU/Linux is difficult to push for this very reason, so there are two outcomes:

      1. Whatever distros popular proprietary software is available for become the distros that people use, thus allowing proprietary software vendors to exert control over the community. This already happens with some packages; we really do not need more.
      2. Steam becomes irrelevant on GNU/Linux because it does not work everywhere, and then the short-lived experiment dies. This has also happened with other software in the past.

      This is classic FUD. There is plenty of software that releases only a single binary for all Linux distros. Aside from Flash, there have been games such as Wolfenstein Enemy Territory that still works on my brand new 64 bit debian install with only a minor fix needed to work around a sound issue and that binary is 6 years old.

    47. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Aaaand point proven, thank you ever so much.

    48. Re:Good luck by Fri13 · · Score: 1

      I would not care about official support as much as official possibility to BUY games for Linux.

      Steam is wonderful online storage when compared to EA own Origin system or almost any other.
      What Apple did for Music and Movies, Steam did for PC gaming and is now doing it for Mac gaming as well and can do it for Linux gaming.

    49. Re:Good luck by DrXym · · Score: 1

      I suspect that most "Linux" games will simply be Windows games running against Wine or some commercial variant or Dosbox. This is how most of the games get ported to OS X. It should still please people that its happened though.

    50. Re:Good luck by realityimpaired · · Score: 2

      This may come as a shock, but GNU is maintained by the Free Software Foundation, so in some sense the entire point of GNU/Linux is to be free/libre.

      Yeah, but there's nothing in that statement which precludes running proprietary software. Your Linux *is* free. If you want that medical database application which runs on it, expect to pay. There may be a free alternative to it, which may do what you're looking for, but there is absolutely nothing in the GPL that says GPL-licensed code can't be used to provide a platform on which to run proprietary code.

      Stallman's rants about freedom aside, this is good for Linux. It will open Linux up to another potential market, one which is the biggest remaining block to Linux running full time on the desktop. And yes, Wine is an option, but with the amount of tweaking needed to run most titles, it's a pain in the butt and beyond the average desktop user.... the average desktop user just wants to be able to go to the software center, or whatever it's called on your distro of choice, install Steam, provide their login credentials, and game. Even something like PlayOnLinux isn't 100% reliable for all games, and you will run into weird performance quirks with some titles. If Valve can get it to run reliably, where I can point and click to pick which games I want to run, they'll make money on it.

    51. Re:Good luck by causality · · Score: 1

      The number of games that don't work via Wine is an ever-shrinking list,

      Really? My experience was that it was an ever growing list of new games that did not work. Maybe eventually, somewhat with some tweaks you could almost somehow run them eventually, but many stayed unplayable for years. Of course many games do work so you can game on Linux, but this very much depends on whether you find this a glass half full or glass half empty situation...

      It's definitely a glass-half-full except I'd say it's more than halfway filled. This is not an exhaustive list, but to name off the top of my head some Windows games I have played via Wine over the years: Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2, Dungeon Keeper 2, Fable, Fable 2, CoD: Black Ops, Drakensang, Dragon Age: Origins, Bioshock, Mafia, Mafia 2, Fallout 3, Fallout: New Vegas, Plants vs. Zombies, World of Warcraft, Max Payne, Max Payne 2, F.E.A.R 2, F.E.A.R. 3. I'm sure there are others I don't remember right now.

      I'm definitely not the most hardcore gamer, but I am satisfied. Perhaps that is because I tend to focus on games that are known to work and choose from those. I tend not to get my heart set and my mind attached to any particular title that I simply must have, because there are already too many great games than I would ever have time to play even if I didn't have to work for a living. Still, it's definitely a "YMMV" situation...

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    52. Re:Good luck by ZeroSumHappiness · · Score: 2

      Some agreement. I work with a fair number of Linux users who aren't gamers, but all the gamers I work with only use Windows because of games and would prefer if they could use Linux for everything.

    53. Re:Good luck by future+assassin · · Score: 1

      Sorry but no... I can finally tell my kids to fuck off when they bitch and whine that none of the computers in the house have Windows on them.

      ALSO now there is no reason for a company to not want to release a game for Linux.

      --
      by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
    54. Re:Good luck by Squiddie · · Score: 1

      I don't think the GNU/Linux community should embrace anything DRM, like Steam. We already don't like proprietary software as it is hard to work with, why tack on DRM to it too?

    55. Re:Good luck by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      That is what I meant, I was unclear. I meant officially buy for linux and have binaries that work on linux. As opposed to my current solution of using Wine.

    56. Re:Good luck by ZeroSumHappiness · · Score: 1

      Uhm, HL and Portal aren't interesting because of their FPS proclivities. In fact, the Source engine is pretty bad as an FPS engine (though it's easy to mod and well supported, so it does get some high power FPS's attached to it). HL and Portal are interesting because they have strong puzzle and design elements (Portal is practically all puzzles, HL put a lot of effort into forcing you to look around more and tease out how to beat certain enemies, but in an FPS setting) as well as a good story and a gripping setting.

    57. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm going to be happy with steam on linux regardless of the reasons it's delivered, but in a world with Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, and Apple all wanting to exert control over their devices, and platforms, is it any wonder why a valve craves an open platform in which to conduct their business? Perhaps I'm looking into this too much, but games for windows live is a direct attack on steam, and valves retort seems to be opening up and maintaining players vested interest by adding value to their platform on a whole.

      This is where linux and a cross platform play console will likely be their champions, all they really need to do is fracture the market just enough that the status quo seems to be more profitable in the short term.

    58. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      light-handed DRM

      You're joking, right? Steam is one of the most intrusive DRMs out there. You need to be online to install games. You need to be online to play games. Allegedly there is an offline mode but that only works 50% of the time if you don't plan ahead and go offfline while you actually still have a working connection.

      Let's not forget the mandatory client that wastes resources, bombards you with ads and adds minutes to the start-up time of games unless you always keep it running; and who wouldn't want to have an app running that logs what software you have installed and what/when/how long you play.

      Aside from that there is no guarantuee that Steam will let or will be able to let you play your games in the future. If the publisher has a change of heart or Steam gets sold/goes tits-up, you'll potentially lose all games you have on that platform.

    59. Re:Good luck by causality · · Score: 1

      However, one thing I cannot comprehend is the attitude that if other people use non-libre software that it could somehow affect my own freedoms. I just don't understand that reasoning.

      Honestly, I think it comes from the bitter taste left in the mouths of many former Windows users who switched to Linux. It's not so much about proprietary versus free/open, it's about the way a proprietary vendor with a huge marketshare can exert a great deal of control over said market. That scenario just wouldn't be possible with GPL'd software.

      I don't consider it likely with games myself. Game publishers actually do have competition and you can release a game without Steam. While Steam seems dominant now, you could start a competing company and get it off the ground much more easily than you could sell your own proprietary operating system and compete toe-to-toe with Microsoft. Not to mention that it's easier to have a computer and make do without some game titles than it is to have a computer and make do without an operating system. That would also make it more difficult for a monopolistic company to have a real stranglehold, because this is a luxury and not a necessity. Piss off your users badly enough and they will realize that.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    60. Re:Good luck by jedidiah · · Score: 2

      I've seen kids go gaga over old MAME games while showing a total lack of interest in the xbox or PS3.

      Sometimes even youngsters can recognize a classic.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    61. Re:Good luck by Anomalyst · · Score: 2

      Isn't an iidealist a bucketlist of Eureka moments you want to have before going senile?

      --
      There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.
    62. Re:Good luck by AngryDeuce · · Score: 1

      I know people that fucking think Farmville is the best "game" ever made. I even knew someone that honestly believed Star Wars: Galaxies was the best MMO of all time.

      This is why 'best $THING ever!' is only appropriate as a humorous interjection, not to be taken seriously.

    63. Re:Good luck by jedidiah · · Score: 2

      I will take that one step further.

      Gentoo has excellent community documentation. Because this whole "linux fragmentation" thing is mostly FUD and nonsense, I can use that Gentoo documentation to help sort out things on Ubuntu.

      So if there is an Ubuntu-centric Steam client, chances are that I will be able to use the Gentoo community docs to troubleshoot it should that need ever arise.

      Most stuff isn't distro specific. H*LL. A lot of stuff isn't even specific to Linux.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    64. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's no reason that gaming on Linux can't be as popular and successful as gaming on Windows.

      You failed to account for the Linux users.

    65. Re:Good luck by Yobgod+Ababua · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah, totally. I'm probably the target market for this kind of thing. Incidently, I do exist.
      I don't run Windows at all, ever. My Linux box single boots to Linux.
      Also, I love games, in several genres, and have disposable income.

      Better Linux support makes me happy, and when I'm happy I spread my cash around more than when I'm unhappy.
      My current major source of unhappy is the growing number of .NET 3.5+ games on Steam that I'd really like to try (WINE seems to have some serious heartburn with .NET 3.5+ that hasn't been going away.) Yes, I know in theory this should spur me to go out and help fix things, but it's some pretty specific code in an area I'm not familiar with, which makes the entry cost really damn high.

      To be honest, while I don't think DRM helps the publisher as much as they think it does (ie: It's useless), I really don't care if it's there as long as the game **WORKS**. If the game works, I'm happy, and companies will profit just a little bit more. If the game doesn't work, or even worse, doesn't work just because of DRM, then they should DIEDIEDIE. Steam's move here is good for me. They are trying to make sure that THEY are not what prevents me from playing (and buying games). That's good, since there are a lot of good games coming through steam.

      I am pleased.

    66. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      here's the other thing though, IF they start actually getting good -full featured- video card drivers ported over (even the binaries miss tons of features) and decent game support. Games are the last big thing tying a ton of people to windows.

    67. Re:Good luck by Sloppy · · Score: 1

      my experience has been that a large (or at least largely vocal) part of that community is made up of idealists and professional bitchers who think everything should be open source and free

      This involves a little bit of projection, but I disagree. I'm normally pretty rabid about things needing to stay open and maintainable, simply because I have my own personal history of constant disappointment with proprietary dependencies which landed me in the orphanage. I've used and loved proprietary OSes (goodbye, Amiga and OS/2) which were owned, owned by self-defeating companies that didn't allow them to keep up with hardware advances and other expectations. I made many years of paychecks writing and maintaining software in proprietary languages using proprietary compilers and proprietary runtime libraries (Clipper and VO, both of which sucked, by the way, but it was a living), sometimes going many years without some necessary bugfixes -- that one wasn't my decision (I knew it was wrong and constantly urged us to get out of it) but I still lived with it and had awkward moments with customers. All of these experiences made me decide: never again. I do everything I can to avoid relying on unmaintainable code.

      Games are different.

      You never rely on a game. If a few years after buying a game, you can no longer play that game, you may be unhappy but you still had those few years. Even as bad of a value as that seems, you have nothing going forward which requires that game. Now, that does mean I would never consider doing any sort of add-on work for a proprietary game (levels, plugins, whatever) but playing it as-is or with other suckers' add-ons, that's just no problem. I can give up any game at a moment's notice, unlike the investment in the sole compiler for code I sell (god damn that was awful) or a whole OS. I have some old Loki games I can't play anymore on my newer computers. I'm a little unhappy about it, but that's just not in same league as not being able to run a modernized Amiga OS on modern hardware, or having to tell a customer (yay, that was a job for the boss) that I can't (both practically or legally) fix an index locking bug.

      Dwarf Fortress' closedness isn't a problem for me. iOS' closedness is. Those two situations are like night and day, with almost nothing in common at all. Don't get me wrong, I still prefer maintainable games so they'll tend to be worth more (i.e you could probably charge more for them) but proprietary isn't a total deal-killer that way it is for an OS or library.

      There is one catch, though, where the relative "unimportantness" of games doesn't matter, so there is a way you could be right. Proprietary usually just means unmaintainable and unable to keep up with users' expectations, but does have a secondary meaning: potentially hostile. Proprietary systems do sometimes actively work against the interests of the owner/user (e.g. DRM) and can be a security threat (e.g. that fact that it's relatively unaudited, or only audited by parties who have conflict of interest, means it has more potential for exploitable bugs (yeah, I know that's controversial, but nevertheless that's my opinion and I think history supports it)). That's true, though, even for users who normally allow proprietary dependencies throughout all parts of their life. A Windows user has just as much to worry about with malware exploits and DRM as a Linux user, they're just less conscientious about it.

      Valve will need to either allow their stuff to run sufficiently sandboxed if it's deemed unsafe (but ultimately, any user can implement that strategy by saying "this is my dedicated gaming machine and it's on the DMZ subnet"), and they'll really want to provide assurances that they'll try hard to keep their system from being an infection vector. I don't really want to have to put a games-only machine on

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    68. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In this case I feel the loudest part of the community is a minute fraction of the community.

    69. Re:Good luck by phorm · · Score: 1

      In my experience, the windows Steam doesn't do that. Why would the linux version?

    70. Re:Good luck by Yobgod+Ababua · · Score: 2

      My experience is both, actually.

      Every few months there are *more* awesomes games that just work (tm) under WINE.
      Lately there are also more games *I want to play* that don't (.NET 3.5, I HATE YOU!).
      Zeboyd, in particular, seems to find a way to make games I'd love to play that send WINE into an epileptic fixme fit.

      The Humble Indie Bundles have been an absolute blessing in raising awareness that we exist and want to pay people for games.

    71. Re:Good luck by slydder · · Score: 5, Insightful

      light-handed DRM

      You're joking, right? Steam is one of the most intrusive DRMs out there. You need to be online to install games.

      which means you can install your game on ANY PC you are on and in case your PC should die, get shot, involved in a car wreck or what have you and all your originals are gone; you still have access to your game and do not need to buy another CD/DVD/BR because the Publisher doesn't want to give you a replacement.

      You need to be online to play games. Allegedly there is an offline mode but that only works 50% of the time if you don't plan ahead and go offfline while you actually still have a working connection.

      Offline mode works just fine. and some games you don't even have to activate it. Now, of course there are some games that don't work offline. But most of those are multiplayer games anyway and are useless without the connection.

      Let's not forget the mandatory client that wastes resources, bombards you with ads and adds minutes to the start-up time of games unless you always keep it running; and who wouldn't want to have an app running that logs what software you have installed and what/when/how long you play.

      Yeah. A whopping 13 MB of memory used. If you have memory crunch because of that then you have other issues to address and once you do you won't be missing those 13 MB. As far as the ads go. Well, I would personally like to not have them. But it helps support the platform because the games I buy I only pay for once. Running costs do need to be covered and this is about the least painful of the options available to them. The rest of the comment I won't even bother to address. Just not worth my time explaining debugging and such.

      Aside from that there is no guarantuee that Steam will let or will be able to let you play your games in the future. If the publisher has a change of heart or Steam gets sold/goes tits-up, you'll potentially lose all games you have on that platform.

      Other than the fact that Steam has one of the best business models in the industry and that they would be completly off thier collective rocker to cut and run. Nope, no guarantee. But then again all you get from the others is a CD. And I personally make backups of my CD/DVD and Steam games. So even if they do go to the be hunting ground in the sky I will still be able to play my games in offline mode and also have backups for the future.

      Think I'll stick with Steam. Thanks a bunch.

    72. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doesn't Linux control your machine? Or do you keep an audit of everything it does at the CPU level, and trace it back to the Linux code and the person responsible for it?
      Seems like you've just drawn an arbitrary line in the sand and cherry picking your ideals.
      You remind of the nutters who claim their property as sovereign land and want the government to treat it as such. But then still expect emergency services, gas, electricity, water, internet, welfare and free travel from the same countries they shun.

    73. Re:Good luck by Yobgod+Ababua · · Score: 2

      I think you highly overestimate our ideology.
      The fact that Steam is at least giving us a chance of being treated like first-rate citizens gives them SIGNIFICANT slack for any glitches. I do think DRM is overrated (by publishers) and ultimately useless as a tech, but it makes them feel better, so whatever. The whole point of this announcement is that Valve wants to make sure their system (DRM included) works properly on Linux. That's a total win.

      Oh, and FYI the -usual- response of proper Linux geeks to something not working isn't "nerd rage", it's an offer to help fix the problem. That's how we built this thing, remember?

    74. Re:Good luck by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      I use Steam under WINE. I can tell you that not only do I not complain about it, I'm delighted about the amount of stuff that works under it.

      So suck on that, quit your bitchin', and whatever else it is you young people say!

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    75. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      odd.. "windows sucks" is enough to get modded up.

      no context.. no way to confirm baseless speculation usually works for slashdot.. when bashing companies they dont like.. ah.. that was the key.

    76. Re:Good luck by Jamu · · Score: 1

      Another benefit is access to games like Portal 2 without needing to spend at least $100 on an OS. I'm wondering how many people this would benefit though, as a lot of people will either already have Windows, or require it for other software. I'd guess that people with second machines they'd like to play games on would be the biggest beneficiaries.

      --
      Who ordered that?
    77. Re:Good luck by millhouse513 · · Score: 1

      I know this isn't going to be a popular sentiment on /., but a Steam Linux client is going to please the Linux community for all of about 5 minutes. The applause won't even have died down before they're bitching that there aren't enough games, it's not open source, it doesn't look right in their obscure distro of choice, etc.

      The Linux community *should* embrace and celebrate this, but my experience has been that a large (or at least largely vocal) part of that community is made up of idealists and professional bitchers who think everything should be open source and free. Introducing a closed source client that charges for games into that group isn't going to please them. Nothing is going to please them.

      Okay, now everyone mod me troll for pointing out something you know is true.

      I think a lot of people in the Linux community these days are people who believe in open source, but really are people who want a Unix-style system, with a slick interface, running on hardware _they_ choose and not hardware pushed on them by a company. For those people, while Open Source is always good, paying for (commercial) software is something you do to support the people who wrote said software. As for the others...I usually don't worry too much about them...they're usually the ones running the latest Ubuntu on some old 400mhz Pentium II and are complaining about how its too slow but refuse to upgrade their hardware... :)

    78. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If the current trend of gaming continues, it'll be all rentals disguised as purchases, online connections required constantly, no resales, and nickle-and-diming DLC packs.

      No thanks. If that's what we're looking at, then the future of gaming IS the past for me. I'll be going back to the thousands of games I missed on various platforms for the past 30 years. There's more than a lifetime of entertainment already out there.

    79. Re:Good luck by lister+king+of+smeg · · Score: 2

      awesome. and you are so right the only reason i have my windows partition still is for games that need direct3D and hardware acceleration. if this turn out to be true, i will be able to whack the windows partition for good.

      i also know why they are doing this windows 8 is becoming more locked down with their windows marketplace, and my in the future try to kill off steam because it competes with their own products. apple is headed to where everything is distributed through the mac apps store and will try to block steam. steam is also planning a console of there own which will be made of standard x86_64 parts. my bet is that they are going to make it Linux based. i hope it works for them.

      i have a number of friends who are interested in switching to linux but are held back by games. if steam comes they will probably switch over to. this could actually make desktop Linux a going concern like the netbooks almost did.

      --
      ---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
    80. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And none of those even hold a candle to Wasteland, Unreal Tournament, Ultima IV, Dungeon Master, or Doom 2.

    81. Re:Good luck by seepho · · Score: 5, Funny

      I, for one, am pleased that this is only true with the Linux community. I don't know what I'd do if politics and religion had similar problems.

    82. Re:Good luck by koll64 · · Score: 1

      And we're all sailing fine,
      coffin, nails, fifteen seaman and
      and a bottle of fine Jamaica rum!
      To the hell with that!

    83. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yup I don't care. I only keep windows around for games that won't run with wine or run poorly and those that make enough use of .net to be a pain.

    84. Re:Good luck by mcneely.mike · · Score: 0

      Or even other operating systems, even.

      --
      soylentnews.org Go there to enjoy the people!
    85. Re:Good luck by mcneely.mike · · Score: 1

      it's unfortunate that your experience with the Linux community left you with the impression that most are like that

      I was once part of a team that tried to do the right thing and port a closed source app to Linux. Let's just say the reaction from Linux users was pretty much the opposite of what we expected--and made me vow to NEVER port to Linux again.

      citation needed! please! which app that you are so proud of protecting?

      --
      soylentnews.org Go there to enjoy the people!
    86. Re:Good luck by causality · · Score: 1

      So if there is an Ubuntu-centric Steam client, chances are that I will be able to use the Gentoo community docs to troubleshoot it should that need ever arise.

      Yes; further still, once you figure that out you could write a little script or create an ebuild so that others need not duplicate your work. That would be trivial or nearly so. I think the original poster in this thread is propagating FUD, though I doubt it's deliberate.

      Most stuff isn't distro specific. H*LL. A lot of stuff isn't even specific to Linux.

      Right. Many Open Source programs I use are not just for Linux but for any Unix-like OS. This is a solved problem.

      Incidentally, you can say hell, shit, fuck, etc. There's no censorship here, which is one thing I like about Slashdot.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    87. Re:Good luck by arth1 · · Score: 1

      I really don't see the market here.
      I have a Windows box for gaming. No need to reboot.

      And if, as it seems, the small number of games you can run, are really Windows games that will only run on certain distributions under Wine with 32-bit compatibility libraries installed, your user base is way down there.

      Now if there were actual bona fide Linux games provided, I would see a market. Cause you can't play those under Windows.

    88. Re:Good luck by causality · · Score: 1

      And yes, Wine is an option, but with the amount of tweaking needed to run most titles, it's a pain in the butt and beyond the average desktop user

      Have you heard of PlayOnLinux? For games it supports, it will take care of installing DLLS and tweaking configs for you. It's basically a substitute for manually using Winetricks and regedit.

      I don't use it myself but it does mitigate your complaint. It's frequently mentioned in the comments on the Wine AppDB.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    89. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As far as the ads go.

      These "ads" you are both whining about only cover steam sales, upcoming releases, etc. nothing outside of the steam store is advertised. Do you both whine about in-store displays when walking through brick and mortars?

    90. Re:Good luck by ifiwereasculptor · · Score: 3, Insightful

      While I also use Steam and find it to be mostly ok, the GP does raise a valid point: offline mode doesn't always work. If your connection fails during an attempt to connect, for example, offline mode will be broken until you can connect again, which on my case can take a full weekend. Also, on my admittedly crappy connection (512kbps and very flaky at that), the client takes at least one minute (at peak hours about seven or eight) to start. And some games take two or three extra minutes to even start loading, which is kind of a drag. But those are mostly faults with my connection, and while I'd appreciate a little more consideration with us rural folks, I'm sure they are non-issues for anyone with a 1mbps+ stable connection.

      Oh, and yes, I did download a bunch of 6 or so Gb games with my POS connection. It usually takes about a week of almost constant babysitting for each. Feel free to build a statue of me anywhere you like.

    91. Re:Good luck by schitso · · Score: 1

      I see what you did there. What I meant (should have said) was "optimist", though.

    92. Re:Good luck by zero0ne · · Score: 2

      This right here.

      This is how Valve will play this out.

      1) Release Linux version of STEAM + Source games working from day 1
      2) Release new Console version based on Linux (no MS licensing overlord). Console comes with all source games
      3) Release STEAM client for mobile ...
      Profit?

      If they now have a linux client, doesn't that mean that if I make a game using their source engine, it will work on Windows, Mac & Linux right off the bat? If so they would basically be able to say "Use STEAM & Source engine to make your game and it will work on our console (#2 above), and PC from day one."

      Bonus points if they release a brand new Source v2 engine or something along with a console.

    93. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't tell you how many hours i've spent playing and replaying Master of Orion in dosbox.

    94. Re:Good luck by causality · · Score: 2

      Most Linux users choose it for practical reasons, a very small and vocal group choose it for ideological reasons. Those like any recent converts are the most zealous.

      You know, I have never met a zealot I liked. I appreciate and adore the philosophical foundation of Open Source and the GPL, and if asked about it I can certainly articulate why. But I just don't believe in shoving anything down anyone's throat. Even if successful, it is not genuine. I don't care for people who will change their beliefs and their philosophy simply because some vocal, or charismatic, or strong personality told them it was a good idea. I don't think people like that really understand what it means to believe in anything. They're lemmings, sheep, myrmidons, whatever you want to call them.

      I would rather people discover on their own and for themselves what freedom means and why it's important. If I were zealous about it, I would actually deprive them of the meaningful process of obtaining their own understanding. I would rob them of true heartfelt appreciation and gratitude. There is a big, big difference between providing good information to someone who asked for it versus shoving it down the throat of someone who didn't and treating them as some kind of adversary if they don't instantly agree.

      I have always viewed it this way because I am a free-thinker and an individual. There was no "conversation" process for me. I embrace GPL and Linux because I think it's a good idea with a noble foundation, because it is a joy to participate in some small way, not because I have some kind of unhealthy emotional attachment to it.

      Zealots, read that and tell me I'm wrong. Go ahead; I'd like to see you try. Any twinge of guilt you feel comes from the damage you are doing to something you claim to celebrate. We need less zeal and more reason and it's just that simple.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    95. Re:Good luck by causality · · Score: 1

      Oh, and FYI the -usual- response of proper Linux geeks to something not working isn't "nerd rage", it's an offer to help fix the problem. That's how we built this thing, remember?

      I don't usually like "me too" posts. Having said that, when I read the above I have only one response: Fuck yeah.

      Seriously, that's the real spirit of it.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    96. Re:Good luck by SighKoPath · · Score: 1

      Hold up... your Steam only uses 13MB of RAM? How the fuck? After mine finishes loading, it's using 150MB of RAM. And I've seen it get as high as 250MB used. Granted, I have 8GB of RAM, so it doesn't hurt performance at all... but 13MB? I find that very hard to believe.

    97. Re:Good luck by filthpickle · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I have a rock solid 2mbps connection and I never have any of the issues you describe with steam. (I am not gloating, just confirming your suspicions)

      Don't worry though, time warner just bought my cable company, so I am sure my days of excellent internet service are numbered.

    98. Re:Good luck by filthpickle · · Score: 1

      Just checked mine at home. I never close steam, so no idea how long it has been running....but it is using 197MB right now.

    99. Re:Good luck by Blue+Stone · · Score: 1

      Don't worry about it, Valve have plenty of experience in filtering the whiny bitchfest that is the Team Fortress 2 Steam-Powered User Forums (SPUF).

      --
      Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
    100. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      which means you can install your game on ANY PC you are on and in case your PC should die, get shot, involved in a car wreck or what have you and all your originals are gone; you still have access to your game and do not need to buy another CD/DVD/BR because the Publisher doesn't want to give you a replacement.

      I've been gaming for 2 decades now and never had issues with physical media. I did however lose access to several games that use online DRM and Steam had been offline several times too, keeping me from playing games.

      Offline mode works just fine. and some games you don't even have to activate it. Now, of course there are some games that don't work offline. But most of those are multiplayer games anyway and are useless without the connection.

      The recent outage in central Europe (up to 2 days in some parts) showed many that offline mode is only reliable if you enable it while you are online and Steam is working properly.

      Yeah. A whopping 13 MB of memory used.

      Nice, because mine easily uses 100-150 MB in-game if you consider the various processes it runs.

      Other than the fact that Steam has one of the best business models in the industry and that they would be completly off thier collective rocker to cut and run.

      Remember these fateful words: too big to fail? Plus, Valve is a tiny garage operation compared to the likes of EA. They could easily get bought by one of the major publishers and they wouldn't be required to maintain your precious games.

      And I personally make backups of my CD/DVD and Steam games. So even if they do go to the be hunting ground in the sky I will still be able to play my games in offline mode and also have backups for the future.

      Uh ... no? As far as I know you cannot keep offline mode running for longer periods of time, even if it works. You have to check back every month or so I've read. Plus, you probably still have to be online to restore backups. So yea, your backups are worthless except for saving bandwidth while steam is still up and running.

    101. Re:Good luck by jarkus4 · · Score: 1

      Interesting... Mine is 13 MB while in tray, 20 - 25MB in library. Entering shop I get ~60MB. Seems like switching between html tabs (shop, community, news) wastes some memory (steam uses more after each switch). But after putting steam back in tray all that memory is released and it goes back to 13MB.

    102. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree that this is going to please the Linux community for all of about five minutes. Then we'll realise that we never really cared that much for games anyway, so we'll forget about the whole thing and continue doing whatever interesting stuff it interrupted us from.

    103. Re:Good luck by x1r8a3k · · Score: 1

      Steam on Windows will phone home with information about what kind of hardware you have, but thats it AFAIK.

    104. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "There are an enormous number of incompatible distributions out there..."

      Well who's dumb fucking fault is that? If you freetards insist on making rods for your own backs then that's your problem.

    105. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can disable the pop-up adverts. In one of the tabs in the preferences window, there's a checkbox that's labeled something like "Notify me with Instant Messages when...". Uncheck that checkbox and the adverts go away!

    106. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Plus, Valve is a tiny garage operation compared to the likes of EA.

      ID was similarly sized and ran without interference for fifteen years. I know of a great many tiny, high-revenue tech companies that won't sell out, that'd reduce their per-employee margins!

    107. Re:Good luck by s0nicfreak · · Score: 1

      I love steam. As someone that uses multiple computers, it's great to have an easy way to move games around. I do keep the client open all the time, and use it as an IM program. Also, it makes it easier to find and start my games, since I have too many to put shortcuts on the desktop. It doesn't add minutes to start-up time, even when I didn't always keep it open. I like the logging of what and how long I play, and in fact I still use xfire to do that, and have hopes that steam update that feature to work more like xfire. It also lets me know what games my friends are playing, making it easy to join. And steam makes it easy to take screenshots, where in the past I was running a separate program to do that. The ads are always relevant to me.

      The few times in the past few years I have been without a working internet connection on my computer, it was either because the power went out - in which case, internet or no, I'm not playing PC games - or I was busy getting the internet fixed. Anyone that is without the internet frequently is probably going to plan ahead, or at the very least has some non-steam games to play.

      There's never any guarantee that you'll still be able to play your games in the future. There are games I have the disks or discs of that don't work anymore because I no longer have a compatible OS. There's a fuckton of games that I purchased in the past, which require a disc to play, where I lost the disc. There's plenty of games that require online cd-key authentication where the authentication servers aren't up anymore, or offline cd-key authentication where I lost the cd-key. But there are ways around that, emulators, cracks, etc. and there will be the same for steam games (and there already is) if anything ever happens to steam. Nevermind the fact that when you buy a game you are not buying the actual game, to do with as you wish; you're buying a license to play the game on the publisher's terms.

      Show me a more light-handed method of DRM than Steam. Yes, it's DRM, and that is inherently bad in some ways. But Steam is DRM that makes many things more convenient, and personally, that's part of what gets me to purchase things (wanting to support the creators being the main factor, but this is part); purchasing being more convenient than pirating.

    108. Re:Good luck by Requiem18th · · Score: 1

      Yes, there will still be the cries of the "DRM is evil, keep it out of our holy land" zealots

      Oh please, you yourself have admitted that there are degrees of DRM. The complaints about DRM are because of the problems it creates. Some DRM lock people out of their rightfully owned books music or movies as soon as the DRM goes offline, the company closes shop, or because of hardware hiccups. Some DRM is so aggressive as to overtake the system entirely, many of them are outright rootkits and render the system insecure with huge back doors, or conversely, completely block systems rendering your hard earned hardware into silicon bricks.

      And this is no theory, it has already happened, multiple times. You can't complain about people who reject DRM and dismiss them as zealots when these problems are real.

      --
      But... the future refused to change.
    109. Re:Good luck by gman003 · · Score: 1

      Pretty sure even that is opt-in, or at least it was several years ago when I opted in. It'll nag you every few months, I think, but that's about it.

    110. Re:Good luck by phorm · · Score: 1

      Yeah. Unless it's changed, I remember it asking me whether I would allow it to do so.

      That sort of things seems fairly safe to share, and useful as it'll give game devs an idea of what the average system used by gamers is and help them optimize.
      No worse than debian's "package popularity-content" etc

    111. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some of us just wants to click install and play. Many years ago, I messed with Wine, Cedega, various emulators, etc. Some rare game works, but they were not perfect.

      I fix computer for a living, and to me, this means that I don't want to spend hours at home fixing my computer just so I can finally do something else.

    112. Re:Good luck by gangien · · Score: 1

      could be wrong, but i thought they only did that with your permission.

    113. Re:Good luck by oakgrove · · Score: 1

      The Linux freetards are definitely not whiny assholes, as you've so eloquently demonstrated in your profound post.

      Yeah, you're really setting the example here, AC.

      --
      The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
    114. Re:Good luck by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Why should they embrace and celebrate? Steam is DRM. Just a few stories back we had one about why DRM is bad in books and yet we're supposed to just accept it in games?

      The point of linux is not to be popular, so if the big games aren't there it is not a major drawback.

    115. Re:Good luck by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      I still run the original CivCTP on my 64bit Ubuntu install. Alpha Centuari runs fine too. While it would be nice if I could utilize Steam to replace them with something newer (namely Civ5). It's by no means a requirement.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    116. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      most of the really vocal people are (like that)

      That's true of any community.

    117. Re:Good luck by jvkjvk · · Score: 1

      Yes.

      The nerd rage comes in when you are told that you can't, shouldn't or that it is illegal to do so -- and the Masters won't.

      As with most closed source proprietary software.

      To pretend that the same ethos can even apply to a commercial closed source business is absurd.

    118. Re:Good luck by Confusador · · Score: 1

      On a somewhat different topic, this linux release of theirs might have some ties to the persistent rumors of some sort of Valve-blessed hardware configuration providing a console-like package. If they suspect that they can even break even on Steam/Source for Linux, that might improve their prospects of being able to release a valvebox spec that leaves buyers with the extra $100 to spend on games, rather than on Windows. Even people who don't care about freedom care about free, after all.

      You said a lot of good things, but I think this deserves to be called out. If there's one thing that makes me think this may happen sooner than later, it's precisely that they are thinking about a console. That console will need an OS, and they'd be braindead to write one from scratch or eat the cost of licensing from MS (who presumably wouldn't be happy about the competition) when there's a perfectly viable alternative readily available. Their only problem with that is that folks would be upset to purchase the console and find out most of their games won't run. If they get the Linux client out first and all of their games ported, there will be some incentive for other developers to do the same. And of course, many of the indies already have a Linux client that they would just have to upload. This could very easily be their solution for smoothing that transition.

    119. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, totally. I'm probably the target market for this kind of thing. Incidently, I do exist.
      I don't run Windows at all, ever. My Linux box single boots to Linux.
      Also, I love games, in several genres, and have disposable income.

      Better Linux support makes me happy, and when I'm happy I spread my cash around more than when I'm unhappy.

      Same here. No Windows box, and don't plan to change that. Right now I just game on the console (yes, a 360 -- so that's technically a windows box). But I'd love to play some strategy games but only if they come out on a platform I already have: Xbox or Linux.

      I had a Mac for a while, but keeping a Mac that's up to par for gaming is expensive and not worth the investment to me.

    120. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I dont think that will be the issue at all. Just because people use Linux is not because they dont want to pay for anything or everything has to be open source...

      Maybe they, like myself, do not like to pay for an OS that they only use to play games. Paying for games is not an issue, its having to buy an OS to play a game that was bought

      I think you are hanging out with the wrong part of the Linux community

    121. Re:Good luck by gmack · · Score: 1

      Tried FreeCiv?

    122. Re:Good luck by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Steam definitely used to have Offline mode broken for a long time, but in the last two years or so, the issues with it seem to have been resolved - or at least I didn't ran into any on my vacations.

    123. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know of a great many tiny, high-revenue tech companies that won't sell out

      True, but at the same time there are at least just as many companies who - as far as the customer is concerned - go to hell after the founding CEOs get replaced with the next generation of unattached money-squeezers who put short-term profit over customer satisfaction.

    124. Re:Good luck by crafty.munchkin · · Score: 1

      Point 3 should be point 1 - since it already exists: http://itunes.apple.com/au/app/steam-mobile/id495369748?mt=8

      --
      ... wait, what?
    125. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Flash is just about the worst example of this you could have picked. Pretty much every other binary software for Linux works better.

    126. Re:Good luck by SCPRedMage · · Score: 1

      Steam actually seems to be pretty good about freeing up resources; after I read your post, I took a look, and Steam was sitting at about 130MB. Once I closed the open windows (Store, Friends list, and a chat window), it dropped to about 14MB.

      So yeah, Steam seems to take up a fairly small amount of RAM when running in the background.

      --
      My sig can beat up your sig.
    127. Re:Good luck by AaronLawrence · · Score: 2

      Perhaps I'm being naive, but Steam only solves one part of the "problem" of games on Linux. Many other difficult technical problems remain, such as the fragmentation of distros, poor 3D video drivers/performance, fragmented APIs such as audio.
      And then there all the "marketing" problems, such as that many Linux users are not interested in paying for games, or want open source, or also run Windows for games.

      --
      For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Arthur C. Clarke
    128. Re:Good luck by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      Seriously? Windows Sucks needs a context? That is like saying water is wet on plane Earth at STP is a meaningless statement without putting it in context.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    129. Re:Good luck by Zan+Lynx · · Score: 1

      S3TC is covered by a patent. It may or may not be a good patent, but there is one.

    130. Re:Good luck by bjorniac · · Score: 1

      Do yourself a huge favor and go with Civ IV not V. Civ V is really dumbed down, and I found IV (or even III) to be the best version, especially if you get the Beyond the Sword + Warlords extensions.

    131. Re:Good luck by tibman · · Score: 1

      I'll vomit some imagination on you..

      What if valve makes a "console" which is really just a set a target APIs and required file structure on linux. This would allow any company to manufacture a "Steam Console". It would run linux, have the proper libraries to run games, and have access to all Valve titles and other linux games on steam.

      I think that would solve all your questions except for the marketing thing you brought up. I can only answer it with: Gamers want to play good games. There are plenty of Free-2-Play games too.

      --
      http://soylentnews.org/~tibman
    132. Re:Good luck by BeShaMo · · Score: 1

      Would be funny if Xbox was cutting edge. The console is frigging 7 years old!

    133. Re:Good luck by marcello_dl · · Score: 1

      > a large (or at least largely vocal) part of that community is made up of idealists and professional bitchers who think everything should be open source and free.

      Here we go again.

      Who was the idealist in the bitkeeper issue? The one who said "it just works it will always do", and did not foresee problems. OSS people were the problem? Possibly but what if MS had later bought bitkeeper through intermediaries and making it slowly bloated and unreliable? The kernel project would have lost much more time deciding what to do.

      An idealist is a guy who thinks some ideal situation and tries to implement it. Stallman started working in the ideal situation, that is being able to hack the source he used, and then the money junkies implemented THEIR ideal, powerless users depending on the publisher.
      He is an idealist when he wants ALL software to be FOSS. But most FOSS people seem to be content when they can use FOSS to do ALL, which is quite a different concept and completely pragmatic if you have been bitten by planned obsolescence and all other problems with proprietary and closed stuff. Saying that it's better to base one's infrastructure on published and freely modifiable codebases is not idealism, it is pragmatism.

      Idealism is: "it is paid software from a commercial company. They have all the incentive to make it work the best possible way". (which indeed is true, once you properly define 'best', it is just wrong to assume it's best for the buyer)

      --
      ---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
    134. Re:Good luck by AaronLawrence · · Score: 1

      Yes, indeed that does answer the questions, but that's not really what Linux users probably have in mind :)

      Then it's a matter of "launching a new console", which is an extremely difficult problem (mostly - getting big game houses on board and marketing $$$ to be visible to consumers).

      --
      For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert. - Arthur C. Clarke
    135. Re:Good luck by Anguirel · · Score: 1

      Let's not forget the mandatory client that wastes resources, bombards you with ads and adds minutes to the start-up time of games unless you always keep it running; and who wouldn't want to have an app running that logs what software you have installed and what/when/how long you play.

      Optional, optional, and necessary. Unless a game has additional DRM that requires a Steam connection, you can launch it directly, skipping the steam process entirely. Not all games are set up for that, but it isn't inherent with Steam. I haven't used them in a while, but I believe the installed shortcuts are usually of this type. Ads that you might be "bombarded" (where "bombard" means one box that shows up only once after you have played a game and has multiple ads in it which are not shown again after being viewed) are in the Settings menu under "Interface" - bottom check box for "Notify me".

      I'm guessing your "adds minutes to start time" is for required run-once updates that actually do matter, mostly with how various Side-by-Side libraries work. If you have DirectX 9.0c August 2011 edition (for example), you might still be unable to run a game that requires DirectX 9.0c July 2011 edition. Visual C++, .Net, and similar shared libraries that need to be installed also tend to have the same system -- a given version doesn't necessarily include all of the variants prior, and the differences between versions can be enough to cause games to break, so they only allow the specific version they were built with to run. Skipping that "minutes added" is like skipping any installer. Your game won't work at all. Occasionally the scripting on them breaks and it will run these multiple times instead of only on the first launch. That's a bug, and there are partial remedies for when it happens (like changing the config file appropriately to say "already did that").

      If you mean something else, you'll have to describe it. I've never had any problem launching a game which was downloaded from Steam where it caused the game to take much longer than a non-Steam install to launch.

      --
      ~Anguirel (lit. Living Star-Iron)
      QA: The art of telling someone that their baby is ugly without getting punched.
    136. Re:Good luck by tibman · · Score: 1

      It's not a new console though, it's a computer in a console shape.

      --
      http://soylentnews.org/~tibman
    137. Re:Good luck by smash · · Score: 1

      This is a big thing. Previously to publish for linux you either needed to set up your own store or ship physical boxes (and end up with inventory issues).

      This will enable publishers to get their feet wet in a relatively low risk manner. Porting to linux, if they already port to mac shouldn't be hard. it is the supply logistics that are risky, and this will help with that.

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
    138. Re:Good luck by smash · · Score: 1

      16gb of ram is about 100 bucks...

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
    139. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      which means you can install your game on ANY PC you are on and in case your PC should die, get shot, involved in a car wreck or what have you and all your originals are gone; you still have access to your game and do not need to buy another CD/DVD/BR because the Publisher doesn't want to give you a replacement.

      Lol, ya right! Look at the EULA of many games from, oh, EA. Limited # of times game can be installed/activated. PC dies? there goes an install. Upgrade to a new PC? There goes another. Want to run it on your lappy? There goes your last install. Poof. SOL. Just because it uses Steam doesn't mean it won't have its own DRM.

    140. Re:Good luck by filthpickle · · Score: 1

      yep. Have 12 gigs. I was answering the person that said their steam used 13mb. Never said I had a problem with it using 190+ megs.

    141. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I beg to differ. I found none of those particularly interesting or entertaining. Half life (all of them) were very overrated and quite "meh". Portal was ok, that's about the most I can say of it.

      Ie, perhaps GP's advise of 'lets stay away from the absurdly subjective topic of "best game ever"' isn't such a bad idea after all.

    142. Re:Good luck by RubberMallet · · Score: 1

      I guess you missed out on Desura?

    143. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do yourself a huge favor and go with Civ IV not V. Civ V is really dumbed down, and I found IV (or even III) to be the best version, especially if you get the Beyond the Sword + Warlords extensions.

      Seconded. If they would only backport the ability for units to sail themselves (no more transports) and ranged attacks, Civ 4 would be the perfect game.

    144. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I tried running games without the Steam client. That only worked for one out of a dozen games. All others just started Steam first or quit complaining about Steam not running.

      "adds minutes to start time" isn't about run-once installation operations. It's routine things like starting Steam. For some reason it takes about 30 seconds to start. Most of which is spent looking at that "connecting Steam account" dialog. The only times it's "faster" is if I quit Steam and immediately restart it.

      Then there's the "starting game" dialog which takes totally arbitrary values anywhere from 5 seconds to a minute. That is not the loading time of the game. That is the time Steam takes before it actually starts the game itself. Especially love the "this game is currently not available" message after waiting for some time. Makes checked for online games in multiple games so much fun ... Basically I open a browser first so I can at least read the news while Steam throws its hissy fits.

    145. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That sounds believable.

    146. Re:Good luck by Yunzil · · Score: 1

      Now there's no excuse not to make Windows, Mac & Linux versions when you already push out Windows & Mac versions.

      Sure there is. If it costs an additional $X to make your game work under Linux, but you project that you will only make $X/5 in return, then you won't do it.

    147. Re:Good luck by NotBorg · · Score: 1

      If I compile my program in Ubuntu, will you be able to run it in Gentoo?

      It's possible to build software that might not work on another distribution, yes. It's also possible to build software that will work on many distributions. I have lots of closed source applications that work on every distribution I've tried them on. Get over it.

      Mostly, the reason that binaries built for one distribution might not work on another distribution is that because they don't have to. If I'm packaging GIMP for Ubuntu it doesn't need to be binary compatible with some other distribution. I can enable build features that might only make sense for the distribution I'm targeting. If on the other hand I wanted to build a GIMP binary that worked on many different distributions I could do that (even if, as in GIMP's case, it's pointless).

      Linux distributions are a lot more alike than what most fans of any particular distribution would lead you to believe. I have lots of binaries that work across distributions, despite that they should have randomly stopped working many years a go when I originally ignored this same FUD.

      --
      I want this account deleted.
    148. Re:Good luck by NotBorg · · Score: 1

      What do you mean? Flash runs the same everywhere. Flash for Windows: Runs like crap. Flash for Mac: Runs like crap. Flash Linux: Runs like crap.

      Even though Flash is total crap, it works just fine to demonstrate that binaries can be made compatible across distribution lines. The fact that it's crap doesn't change the fact that it's compatible crap. If Adobe can make a binary which is compatible across distributions, it can't be that hard can it?

      --
      I want this account deleted.
    149. Re:Good luck by madhi19 · · Score: 1

      When the last time you been offline? Seriously always on connection what a drag! I tell you a story about Steam after a few years of not playing CS and not having Steam running on any computer I installed it last Monday logged on my account and all my games were there. That the edge Valve got over other service with Steam. You buy something on Steam and if your account is still in good standing you can play it again half a decade later on some totally different hardware.

    150. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      3) Release STEAM client for mobile ...

      Except there's already Steam for Android...

    151. Re:Good luck by pxc · · Score: 1

      (Almost) everything should be open source and (eventually) free; freely accessible and readily dissectable contributions to society put society in a better position than it had before. That doesn't mean that non-free software can't also constitute a contribution to the society, especially when it comes in the form of inessential software or art (i.e. video games) which serves (even incidentally) to support the general viability of a free platform.

      And I think it's possible to express a preference for an open-source methodology to a company who sells or provides you with closed-source software without being a dick about it. The Desura Linux client was eventually open-sourced, after the Linux Desura community had been suggesting it for some time. Most of those suggestions came in the form of ‘an open-sourced client would be awesome; thanks for all you've done so far’. I hope and expect that in the Steam case, us F/OSS people who request or suggest that they open-source the Steam client do it with an air of gratitude, as was done in the Desura case. As customers, we have a reasonable right to tell the companies who've chosen or might choose to serve us what we would like from them. So long as those demands are expressed civilly, with an attempt toward persuasion rather than insults or tantrum-throwing, I don't think we ever owe it to Valve (or anyone) to sit back down and say that forevermore ‘we are pleased’. Saying that you'd be even happier if things were a little different isn't really biting the hand that feeds.

    152. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It might be easier to get rid of Steam by cooling it rather than trying to "burn it with fire"

    153. Re:Good luck by DaVince21 · · Score: 1

      There are any number of app-stores out there for Linux but a gaming-centric, game-developer-supported one is a big plus.

      Like Desura! But I'd like Steam on Linux, too. ;)

      --
      I am not devoid of humor.
  2. cool story. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Lol, Phoronix.

  3. Dammit Valve! by InvisibleClergy · · Score: 4, Funny

    The entire reason I *have* an Ubuntu partition is so that I *can't* play all the modern games I'm used to having. With this and how well WoW runs under Wine, I guess that programming Skynet will have to wait.

    1. Re:Dammit Valve! by kiwix · · Score: 1

      Just get a non-x86 machine (e.g. a Raspberry Pi), it will take some time before you can play any commercial games on it...

  4. Here by ledow · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Thought this might be handy for those who wonder what else they might be able to get on Linux Steam:

    http://steamlinux.flibitijibibo.com/index.php?title=Native_Games

    1. Re:Here by Man+Eating+Duck · · Score: 1

      Thanks!

      I notice that it's not uncommon for indie developers to maintain Windows, Linux and MacOS versions (see the Humble Bundles for examples). Several open source games do the same, for instance Pingus [google.com] will build for all three from the exact same source tree, albeit with some different library dependencies. Building it for Linux, at least, is completely painless. This leads me to believe that portability is not very difficult if you keep it in mind from the start. I realise that you will need more testing for different platforms, but only for a limited subset of the code that might break with different APIs for different platforms, as game logic, for instance, remains the same.

      I'm not a coder, but I'd love to hear from someone with experience doing cross-platform development: how much harder is it to target additional platforms nowadays if you plan for it from the start of development?

      --
      Are you a grammar Nazi? I'm trying to improve my English; please correct my errors! :)
  5. What games? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The client is going to make the Win32 games work. What's the point if you only have a few games?

    What Linux user is going to pay money to play the small number of games available?

    1. Re:What games? by lattyware · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, if you bothered to read even the title, you'd see that says Source, which is Valve's game engine. That's a lot of games and mods, not to mention that they are all very good games. There are also a fair number of titles on Steam with Linux versions anyway, and this opens the way for more to happen. You can't expect it to be instant, but this gives devs a reason to release Linux versions, and a way to reach Linux users.

      --
      -- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
    2. Re:What games? by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 1

      The Source engine games make up a minscule fraction of the games on Steam. And just because a game uses Source doesn't mean it'll run on Linux OOB. Basically, a steam client will mean they'll get a hugely tiny fraction of the entire library since most of the games on Steam will never have Linux clients.

    3. Re:What games? by lattyware · · Score: 2

      Yes. And? No one is ever going to make wine perfect or port every game to Linux. At some point if gaming is going to happen under Linux, someone needs to make a move like this. No, there will not be a massive library to begin with, that doesn't make it wortheless. People might still want to play the games they can, and it makes it easier to release stuff in future. If I want to play Portal 2 on my Linux PC and it's availible, why wouldn't I? There is a point to it, even if it isn't every game. For some people, every game they want might have a Linux version. More likely, some won't, but that doesn't mean it's a no-go.

      --
      -- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
    4. Re:What games? by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 1

      It means you are cheering because you'll get a handful of games that have been on Windows for years. Woo....hoo?

    5. Re:What games? by lattyware · · Score: 1

      Well, yeah, but that's understating it. I'll also get a platform that gives developers more reason to release for Linux, I get future Valve games (which I care about a lot more than most companies), and I get it for free in a way that's convinient to me. Where is the downside?

      --
      -- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
    6. Re:What games? by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      You missed the point. This (a major online store and content distribution system adding linux support) has never happened before, and it will open doors. We're already getting more and more games from indies (witness the humble bundles, for example).

      Take a look at Mac support on steam. Sure they don't have everything, but they certainly have a lot.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    7. Re:What games? by nautsch · · Score: 1

      What Linux user is going to pay money to play the small number of games available?

      The Steam client is free.

      You would only pay per game.
      And the client will probably warn you, if you are about to buy a game, which won't run on your platform.

      --
      If you find a typo, you may keep it.
    8. Re:What games? by Desler · · Score: 1

      The Mac version has only 7% of the games for Windows.

    9. Re:What games? by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Me?
      I already own all the Valve games other than the L4D series. The minute they work on linux I will buy them. I would be glad to play the games I already own without wine.

    10. Re:What games? by nautsch · · Score: 1

      Why would you buy them? As you said, you already own them.

      As far as I understand it, it is just another platform you can access your Steam profile from. Any game that runs on that platform and you own, would already be there. Am I missing something here?

      --
      If you find a typo, you may keep it.
    11. Re:What games? by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      > It means you are cheering because you'll get a handful of games that have been on Windows for years. Woo....hoo?

      Sounds a lot like the Mac version of Steam.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    12. Re:What games? by Baloroth · · Score: 1

      It's a small fraction now. But once it starts working on Windows, Mac, and Linux, a lot more developers might take a look at it. Plus, Valve's development of Dota 2 means that the tools to make an RTS will be in the engine, in addition to the FPS support it already has. That might make it attractive to quite a few developers who don't have their own engine.

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    13. Re:What games? by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      Having a central starting point will be helpful. People have an obvious place to look for new stuff.

      A lot of stuff gets neglected for lack of exposure. That's true now and it was true back in the days of Loki. The whole centralized app store approach takes a lot of burden off of the developers to make sure that people know about the product.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    14. Re:What games? by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      Which is still a lot. 331 games another poster claimed. One valve Source game ported to linux would be big news, 30 would be huge, over 300 would be a miracle.

    15. Re:What games? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No one is ever going to make wine perfect

      Source please.

      Wine isn't trying to do something new or something that no-one has ever done before. It is only trying to provide a windows environment, something that Microsoft already have done.

      The statement that no one is ever going to make wine perfect seems a bit taken out of the blue. Can you give any motivation to why not?

    16. Re:What games? by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      I meant I would buy the L4D games that I do not currently own.

    17. Re:What games? by lattyware · · Score: 1

      Who ever said it would cause mass exodus? Stop putting words in people's mouths then arguing against it. This is good news for me because I use Linux, and I want to play my games under Linux. That's it.

      --
      -- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
    18. Re:What games? by lattyware · · Score: 1

      There is a lot to do, and not enough people doing it, all while new versions of Windows come out every x years. I'm not saying that it's impossible, just that it's not going to happen. What is more likely is just that the engines and toolkits people use become cross platform to the point wine isn't needed. (Hopefully).

      --
      -- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
    19. Re:What games? by KlomDark · · Score: 1

      Oh boo hoo ya big whiner. Just because it's not perfected to your standards the first day you think they shouldn't do it? You are teh dumb.

      It's an awesome first step that opens the door to a lot of future games being made for Linux once the studios get slapped in the head with data proving that there actually are Linux users who will buy games.

    20. Re:What games? by realityimpaired · · Score: 1

      And the client will probably warn you, if you are about to buy a game, which won't run on your platform.

      That's what it does on Mac... assuming you can even see the title on a Mac. The website shows all platforms and lists what platforms each game runs on, but IIRC the Mac native client simply doesn't show the titles that don't run on Mac.

    21. Re:What games? by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      > Why would you buy them?

      Windows avoidance.

      Believe it or not, some people just don't like Microsoft's products. It's not some sort of "ideological" thing. They just want to use SOMETHING ELSE.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    22. Re:What games? by CAPSLOCK2000 · · Score: 1

      There is a significant number of games on Steam that have an official Linux version. Obviously that's only a fraction of the total, but it's a lot more than just the Source-games. Having all these games available through a single interface and through a single payment-processor might be enough to reach a critical mass.

      Whatever way you look at it, the days of Wintel as the only platform that matters are over. It will be the most important platform for years to come, but it will end at some point. Any company that is tightly coupled to Windows should at least consider a future without it. Having a Linux-port may be a huge advantage in the future. As any company can hire a linux-hacker, the number of OS-developers working on Linux far outweighs the other platforms combined (especially if you count Android as Linux). Even if the OS of the future is not Linux-as-we-know-it, chances are that it will be heavily influenced by the current crop of Linux-developers.

      When Steam was ported to the Mac the (absolute) number of mac-users was probably lower than the current Linux-userbase. Besides, Linux is what the more, ehm, fanatical users are using. Mac OS/ iOS users on the other hand tend to be more casual about gaming. Having the extreme gamers on you side could be a great advantage.

      Personally I think Valve cannot afford not to do this, even if it turns out te be failure. Desura has been offering their product on Linux for month. If Valve doesn't step up they will loose the Linux market to Desura before the fight even started. If Desura becomes a hit on Linux it might challenge Steam on other platforms.
      The entire demonstration seems to be too good to be true. I think it's FUD to keep Linux-users away from Desura. If they can keep up this sherade for a few month Desura will go out of bussiness.

      Some further remarks. We know that Valve employs a number of Linux programmers for the server-part of the games. It has also been suggested that the Steam-backend runs on Linux. We also know that Left4dead has contained Linux-bits right from the start. It might be the case that one of the backend-programmers continued the Linux port as a hobby, just like Doom was ported to Linux by a single guy with some free time.

      I generally like Valve and I really hope that they are serious, but a few years of waiting has made me a bit sceptical.

    23. Re:What games? by DrGamez · · Score: 1

      Mass exodus? I just want to play Portal 2 and TF2 without having to install an OS that costs an additional $100.

    24. Re:What games? by Confusador · · Score: 1

      Yes, exactly! I'll get to play a bunch of games that I couldn't before because I had made other decisions that are more important to me than which games I get to play. Is that not enough to be excited about? I hear some of their titles are really good, too.

  6. Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hey, I've got a fun new idea! How about I start with one cry of "Wolf!" in this post, and every time Phoronix "confirms" a Linux Steam client is being worked on and/or its release is "imminent" in some way, we add another! It'll be great! I'd suggest we start counting from when Phoronix first started "reporting" this, but I figure hey, they need some way to drive people to their site for the advertising dollars, so we won't have to wait long to get that number up!

    So here we go: "Wolf!"

  7. I WANT TO BELIEVE by bersl2 · · Score: 1

    Oh Great Penguin In The Sky, I want to believe.

    But this is Phoronix, so I won't actually believe until I'm playing Portal without Wine.

    1. Re:I WANT TO BELIEVE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The guy has photos from Valve headquearters - from the CEO of Valve's desk, of Steam/Source games running on a computer running Ubuntu. Why would Michael lie about this and fake the pictures?

      Maybe, just maybe, the whole thing actually might be true. At this point we have a lot more evidence that it is true than evidence that it isn't true, so the rational thing is to start thinking that it might be true.

  8. Steam console? by brenddie · · Score: 5, Interesting

    What if their rumored steamBoxStation console is a "PC" running linux?

    --
    The best test environment is production. - Me
    chrome://browser/content/browser.xul
    1. Re:Steam console? by lattyware · · Score: 2

      I think that would be a good reason for them to do this. At the moment, it wouldn't really work as it'd mean the majority of their library wouldn't work, but if they can get stuff ported over, and get people releasing for all platforms, it puts them in a much stronger position to release a console, as they don't have to be under Microsoft's thumb, and they have a stronger position to negotiate for windows licences. I don't think that a steam box is something we'll see soon, but this is probably a move that helps them, just in case they do decide to do it in the future. It's a bit of a Google move in that it's designed to make the ecosystem better suited to support what they want to do.

      --
      -- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
    2. Re:Steam console? by Robert+Zenz · · Score: 1

      ...and they have a stronger position to negotiate for windows licences.

      Yeah, I can see that talk already coming: "Hello, this is Valve, give us a discount or we'll develop even more stuff for Linux." - "Yeah...did you know that we own Linux because of out patents? How about you giving up that little Linux idea of yours before we sue you into oblivion?" - "You don't Linux in any way, proof it!" - "Yeah, let's sign this NDA first." - "Never, why should we?" - "See you in court."

      You know what really good about this is? I can imagine Valve beating up Microsoft hard time.

    3. Re:Steam console? by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 1

      Pretty sure this has been called. I did, at least, though I surely wasn't the first. Though it would make more sense to run Windows due to the increased compatibility, if they can get enough games running on Linux (even if they use Wine or something to do it) they can save a significant chunk of change and pass that savings on.

    4. Re:Steam console? by lattyware · · Score: 1

      Valve have a pretty good track record in the coutroom, and they are known for doing the right thing wherever possible. We'll see.

      --
      -- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
    5. Re:Steam console? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it's a Steam console of some sort, not only do they need to port Steam, Source, and a bunch of games to Linux, they also need to give them 10-foot interfaces and gamepad control schemes. That's a lot of redevelopment work.

    6. Re:Steam console? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This would make sense on a number of levels, not the least of which are:

      - Zero OS licensing costs: No need to pay Microsoft anything.

      - More customization: They can easily roll their own heavily customized Linux distro that does only what they want; you don't get that as easily with Windows.

      - Hardware compatibility is moot: Valve will be controlling exactly what hardware goes into the SteamBox (assuming it's a console-like device), so they can pick 100% Linux compatible hardware right off the bat.

      That just leaves game selection, but if you're a game dev who already does Windows and OSX ports, chances are whatever library you're using also compiles on Linux, so why not put X hours into making your game available to yet another audience (Linux users and SteamBox owners)? Throw in some potential Valve incentives (they will want their new console to succeed, after all) and boom, problem solved.

    7. Re:Steam console? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Then they're fools, because there's no need for them to actually do anything whatsoever themselves. Everything they need already exists and can be purchased off the shelf. They'd just need to contract a case or two (a half-life themed case and a portal themed case, perhaps) as well as a motherboard (with some of the ports removed) and a controller, and perhaps standardize on a single bluetooth interface. Done and done.

      I'm still hoping that their upcoming hardware device, if it turns out to be more than the research they claim it is, is for AR.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    8. Re:Steam console? by DanZ23 · · Score: 1

      I think it'll be sooner rather than later, especially in light of the fact they have been hiring hardware developers. I have had a feeling a valve console would run linux so I figured there'd be a desktop linux client soon

    9. Re:Steam console? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If the windows store takes off like the apple store, steam will get hedged out. They need alternate methods of selling games. An inexpensive console would be another.

    10. Re:Steam console? by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      I suspect it will because why run Windows as a games console OS and why would you port Steam / Source to Linux when no one else will likely support it? Of course if they console is running on linux they can probably guarantee more games.

    11. Re:Steam console? by DrGamez · · Score: 1

      Let's not get too ahead of ourselves. Lets just get Portal on Linux first, then we'll talk about an entire console with hardware and licensing deals to strike out, let alone distribution.

  9. I'll put my money where my mouth is by javilon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There are a number of users that will be happy to buy from steam if it is available for Linux. I am one of them and here is the description

    I have grown used to buying apps for my Androis phone. The reason are:
    - It is convenient
    - prices are not outrigeous, so I can do impusle buying

    Now, I don't use Windows and I don't feel like rebooting into it just for playing. I don't feel like maintaining the Windows OS, so I don't play games except the few Free/free Linux games coming in my distro. But I will purchase and play some of the classic games if they are available in Steam for Linux.

    --


    When his defense asked, "Which computer has Jon Johansen trespassed upon?" the answer was: "His own."
    1. Re:I'll put my money where my mouth is by ledow · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't necessarily pay for a Linux-only title. I'm not sure it would get the use on its own.

      But I would add, say, 10% to get a "TriplePlay" Windows/Linux/Mac entitlement on Steam to a game that I'm buying, so that I can play on any platform for just a little extra.

      Hell, I'd happily pay to upgrade games I *already* have on my Steam account to triple-play like that, but only a reasonable price.

      And if HL3/Ep3 comes out and it's available on both - hell, yes, I'd pay a bit extra to have it on Linux like a shot.

      Already, quite a few of the indie titles I have are Windows/Linux and some are Windows/Mac/Linux. Some of what pushed this is, I'm sure, the indie bundles which make a big show when they are cross-platform (and we've even had a Windows/Android one already too). If Steam-Linux would give me a Linux copy of those, as well as my Windows copy, in retrospect or for a small price that would be perfect.

    2. Re:I'll put my money where my mouth is by lattyware · · Score: 1

      Just as a note, when Steam was released for OS X, existing accounts could play all the games they had already purchased on a Mac without re-buying them (aka: Steam sells you a licence to play the game on any platform it is availible for, not a particular one) - so there is no reason to presume they wouldn't do that with Linux to. Hence the price would be the same, and you could play it where you want.

      --
      -- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
    3. Re:I'll put my money where my mouth is by H0p313ss · · Score: 2

      Just as a note, when Steam was released for OS X, existing accounts could play all the games they had already purchased on a Mac without re-buying them (aka: Steam sells you a licence to play the game on any platform it is availible for, not a particular one) - so there is no reason to presume they wouldn't do that with Linux to. Hence the price would be the same, and you could play it where you want.

      This is true for some games, but not for all. I have Steam installed on my primary gaming machine running Win7 and my personal laptop, a Macbook Pro. While my Civ IV and V licenses work on both machines Bioshock and Bioshock 2 only work on Windows despite there being a Mac port of both. As far as I can tell in this case Steam thinks they are a different SKU and therefore separate products.

      It would seem that it will only work on both if it is initially released to Steam as such.

      --
      XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
    4. Re:I'll put my money where my mouth is by gman003 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Well, as a guy whose wallet is frequently raped by Steam Sales, and as one whose used the Mac version of Steam, I can say a few things:

      1) Steam does make it convenient to buy games - arguably *too* easy. I can buy a game in about thirty seconds and have it downloaded within at worst two hours (for a 20GB epic), often as little as two minutes (for the 100MB indier-than-thou titles). Seriously, it's not uncommon to hear Steam fans complaining about how they get hooked into impulse-buying games on sale that they never play (I've actually played perhaps half the games I own on Steam, and that's considered "doing pretty well").

      2) Prices for some games are definitely in the impulse-buy range. There's an entire section for "under $5", mainly containing extremely old titles (Doom, Half-Life) or low-budget indie games. And they literally *always* have some sale going on, and at least twice a year they have massive sales.

      3) The initial lineup of Linux games will primarily be Valve's own recent titles, as well as whatever indie games already have Linux versions. Roughly one in four titles I own are Mac-compatible (fifty or so out of two hundred); I would anticipate seeing less than that for Linux, perhaps one in eight.

      * For some reason, Valve's only ported Half-Life 2 and later to Mac, and I would expect the same on Linux. So no Half-Life 1 (there *is* Half-Life: Source, the port to the HL2 engine), no Opposing Force, no Counter-Strike 1.6, no Ricochet.

      4) There *is* DRM. The DRM is normally pretty benign and limited - as long as Steam is running in online mode (on only one computer at a time - someone else signing in to the same account elsewhere will boot you out), you'll have zero problems. Offline mode exists, but it does have oddities (it's perfectly usable, but you'll actually have to think DRM, at least while setting everything up). Note also that some third-party games have their own layer of DRM, so if you're a militant anti-DRM fanatic, check the game details (it *does* say "this game uses additional DRM" or something to that effect).

    5. Re:I'll put my money where my mouth is by lattyware · · Score: 1

      Yeah, well, I guess that's a licensing issue - I'm talking Valve here, other publishers may not be so generous. Hopefully it'll become the standard, however.

      --
      -- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
    6. Re:I'll put my money where my mouth is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not quite correct I think. The problem with some games like Civ and Bioshock is that they were ported (I think they're Wine 'ports' actually) by a 3rd party porting house who want to get paid. The game's inititial developer doesn't want to pay them in this instance. Valve's titles though, were not initially released to Steam as multi-platform but they put their money where there mouth is and did the port themselves.

    7. Re:I'll put my money where my mouth is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      - It is convenient

      Prepare for a surprise. Steam is anything but convenient. I don't mind closed-source but I do mind the annoyances Steam brings. It's the most intrusive DRM out there (online, buggy, bloated client, waste of resources, down every other month during prime-time so you cannot play). It takes control from the user and puts it into the publishers' hands. Plus it's basically spyware and ad-ware on top of that.

      All in all I fear this will make gaming on Linux WORSE. Right now, games on Linux are largely DRM-free. If Steam becomes available, we'll be stuck with the same horrible, rent-only nonsense that already has way too much market-share on Windows.

    8. Re:I'll put my money where my mouth is by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Offline mode exists, but it does have oddities (it's perfectly usable,

      I only very rarely launch steam, but about half the time when I do it's reset itself to online mode.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    9. Re:I'll put my money where my mouth is by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      The initial lineup of Linux games will primarily be Valve's own recent titles, as well as whatever indie games already have Linux versions. Roughly one in four titles I own are Mac-compatible (fifty or so out of two hundred); I would anticipate seeing less than that for Linux, perhaps one in eight.

      * For some reason, Valve's only ported Half-Life 2 and later to Mac, and I would expect the same on Linux. So no Half-Life 1 (there *is* Half-Life: Source, the port to the HL2 engine), no Opposing Force, no Counter-Strike 1.6, no Ricochet.

      That's easy. The Mac version only has games for Mac - the indie devs who do a Mac port, the AAA games with a Mac port, etc. For Valve, anything that uess the Source engine (ported to Mac) automatically has a Mac port.

      Half-Life 1 was done with a modified Quake engine. Half-Life 2 was done with Source, and Source is cross-platform. So not unusual at all.

      Linux support will be the same - anything that supports Source (HL2+, including HL:S), plus whatever devs do a specific Linux port. There's no magic in Steam that magically makes games work cross platform, after all.

    10. Re:I'll put my money where my mouth is by H0p313ss · · Score: 1

      As others have pointed out, all of Valve's games that I've tried on Steam work great on OSX.

      --
      XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
    11. Re:I'll put my money where my mouth is by H0p313ss · · Score: 1

      As I said "in this case Steam thinks they are a different SKU and therefore separate products"

      --
      XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
    12. Re:I'll put my money where my mouth is by isorox · · Score: 1

      Mainly containing extremely old titles (Doom, Half-Life)

      Oh thanks, now I feel really old.

  10. Re:Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! by lattyware · · Score: 1

    As much as normally Phronix trumpets nothing, this time it's legit. He visited Valve and saw it, and Gabe has talked about how he, personally, has been working on Linux-related stuff recently in a podcast. We don't know when it'll happen, but Valve are pretty well known for keeping stuff under wraps until they have it close to delivery.

    --
    -- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
  11. The problem stay the same by Milharis · · Score: 2

    Regardless of the open-sourceness of Steam, the problem is still the same as it as always been with Linux : the marketshare is way too small for major companies to do Linux port, and most people who use desktop linux have Windows somewhere too.
    Apart from Valve and indie games, I highly doubt we will see AAA games for Linux in the next few years.

    And then there is the issues of video drivers.
    Even if there have been good progress done recently, compatibility and performance are still way below Windows drivers.

    Still, it's a good news, and it might be the first step that is needed to start.

    1. Re:The problem stay the same by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 0

      The funny part is that somehow people actually think that this will cause some mass exodus to Linux despite the fact that PC gaming is a niche market and that the Linux clients available will be extremely tiny in number. Currently the Mac version of Steam has only 331 vs the 4641 for Windows. The amount of Linux games is going to only be tinier.

    2. Re:The problem stay the same by ledow · · Score: 1

      And still it was worth them producing Mac versions, continuing to produce Mac versions, other people producing Mac versions and still selling and supporting Mac versions.

      I think they're just thinking of Linux as the next logical step, given that. The more people on Steam, on whatever platform they choose, the more buying games.

      And think "indie bundle". All of them have had cross-platform games in most of their offerings and all of them have been hugely profitable (Humble bundles typically make millions of dollars each, for instances).

    3. Re:The problem stay the same by Spad · · Score: 1

      The Mac version of Steam has been out since 2010, the PC version since 2003, so it's not exactly fair to compare them directly.

      Besides, your numbers are *way* off, it's actually closer to 1579 vs 245 for PC and Mac respectively - I suspect you included all the demos, videos, mods and DLC in your totals.

    4. Re:The problem stay the same by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      So what?
      Even if they only ported Portal that would be a big first step.

      I know you are an anti-linux troll, but try to at least construct a rational argument. Linux users would have every right to be excited about just one vavle game being ported, 331 would be considered a miracle.

    5. Re:The problem stay the same by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 0

      Wait, so because I don't buy into the loony claims of mass Windows exodus over a product that has a niche market at best then I'm a troll? Haha, ok...

    6. Re:The problem stay the same by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      No, look at your own handle. Look at your posting history. You have always been an anti-linux troll.

      There will be no mass windows exodus. If we are very lucky in 20 years there will be three major desktop operating systems. Nice strawman there though.

    7. Re:The problem stay the same by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      "Even if there have been good progress done recently, compatibility and performance are still way below Windows drivers."

      That might be true had you said "slightly" rather than "way", but it doesn't matter either way since the Windows drivers run on ... wait for it ... Windows, so any better performance in the driver is lost to the much slower non-realtime-capable OS.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    8. Re:The problem stay the same by Dr.+Manhattan · · Score: 1
      Doesn't have to start a mass exodus. It's just one more step, but a nice one. Games are literally the only reason I ever boot into Windows anymore; every other use is handily managed by Linux. With the current malware flood, there's pressure away from Windows. Lowering the 'potential barrier' will mean more flow to Linux.

      People don't have to 'mass convert'. Windows just has to not grow, while the alternatives grow. Eventually the malware types will have to shift their focus, sure, but by then Windows will be a shadow of its former self.

      --
      PHEM - party like it's 1997-2003!
    9. Re:The problem stay the same by DrGamez · · Score: 1

      Not everyone here is an idiot, when you come sporting a handle like that it only takes a click or three to see every one of your posts is just trollbait. I wish you weren't afraid to have a real discussion on the topic - it's pretty interesting!

    10. Re:The problem stay the same by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're a troll because of your strawman argument. The GP didn't claim any mass exodus, and I've yet to see that many Linux users claiming it in this story. But it's definitely good news for desktop linux.

  12. so we're by nimbius · · Score: 0

    ballparking randomly on october/november for the release, tied in with this guys trip to oktoberfest. makes perfect sense.
    valve is working hard to develop a linux steam client, phoronix is working tirelessly and self-referentially to insist it was the first to break this glorious rumour turned screen-shot in the hopes of selling more click-through advertising. Its a win for everyone if Valve pulls this off, (ill certainly be purchasing a new computer) but this phoronix crap is barely an article...mostly gushing about relationships with gabe newell. by the time i reached the end of it we'd said phoronix so much id forgotten what the word was.

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
  13. I hope they'll have WindowsLinux offers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I already bought lots of Valve's games for Windows, among them every single game from the HL universe. I guess they won't just give the linux versions away and I don't want to spend 200-300 bucks only to be able to play on linux. Hopefully they'll make some offer like "pay 20$/€/.. once and get the linux version of every source engine game you already have"

    1. Re:I hope they'll have WindowsLinux offers by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

      When they added mac support they did not charge extra. Any games you already owned for Windows were just also available for Mac. I doubt they will do anything different.

  14. Re:Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 1

    How is it legit? The article was nothing but regurgitation of his previous rumors, there wasn't a single quote from Gabe Newell and Valve has not officially confirmed anything. Oh right, he posted an internal screenshot of a game supposedly running on Ubuntu!! OMG CONFIRMED!!!!

  15. Re:Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Until I'm playing a native Team Fortress 2 client on my Linux box, the answer, my friend, is "Wolf!".

  16. They should really partner with... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Since a lot of games are windows based. They should partner with http://transgaming.com/ and make a good crossover platform better.

    1. Re:They should really partner with... by PhrstBrn · · Score: 1

      Transgaming's product is garbage. They fell so far behind Wine that they discontinued their Linux product (Cedega) 3 years ago. At the moment, they don't even have a Linux product anymore, it's gone into maintainance as "GameTree Linux". Since Wine switched to LGPL 10 years ago (in reaction to Transgaming and their refusal to send back patches), Cedega (then called WineX) their product has fallen further, and further behind, now to the point where it's less compatible than normal Wine.

      If you want a commercial Windows compatibility product, look at Codeweavers. It's based on vanilla Wine, they backport their fixes, and they test for compatibility on their builds.

  17. Re:lol overhyped shit by lattyware · · Score: 1

    Uh... Portal 2 is under a year old. Counter Strike: Global Offensive comes out this year and uses the Source engine. Virtually every game Valve has made is a masterpiece and worth playing no matter the age. Beyond that, PC gaming isn't a niche market, and who cares about people switching to Linux, I just like the idea I can play my games under my normal OS.

    --
    -- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
  18. Re:lol overhyped shit by ledow · · Score: 1

    Hello troll.

    Did you miss the bit about the source engine coming across too? That would mean *all* Valve games, basically.

    And there's a suspiciously large couple of games waiting in the wings with people DYING to get their hands on them - Half Life 2 Ep3, DOTA 2, etc. - not to mention there's been major new releases in the last, what, April - Portal 2.

    That's hardly a "decade old". Niche market or not, Source engine and Steam on Linux could CREATE its own new gaming market in a matter of days after release. And at worst, we have a shed-load of games come across and a native client to install already-ported indie titles that seem to be VERY popular at the moment (has a large indie bundle taken less than a few million in pure profit recently?).

    Just because all the big name publishers ignored Linux gamers and missed the boat for the last ten years doesn't mean that you should join them.

    Big business decision (though I still class it as rumour) that I've seen from a tech company in a long-time.

    Would you rather Steam-on-Linux or Instagram-on-Facebook in your daily news?

  19. Case in point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    While a smaller percentage of the whole Linux users historically donate a larger dollar amount per donation than Windows user do for Humble bundle releases.

    1. Re:Case in point by Desler · · Score: 1

      Yeah only because the mean is skewed by people using a purchase for Linux as a donation.

    2. Re:Case in point by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      Those Bundles have a set asking price. I just pay the asking price. The fact that it is "charity" doesn't enter into it for me unless I am trying to get myself into the top 10 for awhile.

      I suspect there's just more Linux users willing to pay the price being asked.

      Most people are cheap bastards with Windows users in general being the biggest "freetards".

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  20. A Steam client doesn't guarantee platform support by drdaz · · Score: 1

    Steam for OS X, a big step forward though it was, hasn't delivered a massive amount of content.

    I haven't got numbers to back that up, but often when I hear about a game being released on Steam (usually from a developer / publisher which isn't Valve) that I would like, I open the client and find out it's Windows-only. Which is a shame. Publishers still clearly think that Mac is a niche market. The situation with a Linux client is unlikely to be much better.

    That said, having Valve's own stuff available is no bad thing. They have produced plenty of good content.

  21. Yay! Native DRM! Finally!! by Cid+Highwind · · Score: 1

    Valve has been a good steward with Steam, not doing nefarious things like turning off old games to sell new ones, or banning Wine users, or any other evil things they could do, but it's still funny to me to see the /. community all excited about rumors that someone is going to port a DRM platform to Linux.

    Valve has yet to officially comment, but you'd hope they wouldn't invite someone up to their offices and send them home to spew lies.

    Yeah well. I still say I'll believe it when I have a download link.

    On that subject, whatever happened to the super-duper-optimizing compiler that was going to revolutionize everything Linux that Phoronix "confirmed" a while back?

    --
    0 1 - just my two bits
    1. Re:Yay! Native DRM! Finally!! by ledow · · Score: 1

      - Most games won't come across without DRM. Some will, most won't."

      - Most games don't support Linux at the moment.

      You use logic to see what the statement:

      - Bringing across a viable, market-proven, popular DRM scheme to Linux, with the potential for some large, hugely-anticipated gaming titles too.

      does in that case. And most gamers would agree that out of all the possible DRM's out there, the one you'd choose to come across if you had to would be the Steam DRM.

      Compare and contrast with any other DRM scheme, for instance.

      I don't like DRM. I do like Steam. Because it respects me, the customer, and doesn't tell me how many machines I can install on, or have to run in the background all day long when I'm doing nothing, or slowly destroy my Windows setup, or force me to work around it all the time.

      In terms of trade-off (game availability vs burden of DRM), Steam DRM wins by MILES.

    2. Re:Yay! Native DRM! Finally!! by Robert+Zenz · · Score: 1

      ...but it's still funny to me to see the /. community all excited about rumors that someone is going to port a DRM platform to Linux.

      Baby steps my friend, baby steps. It's the first step...though, not sure where this will take us, but can't be bad, ey?

    3. Re:Yay! Native DRM! Finally!! by Truekaiser · · Score: 1

      Your title was exactly what i was thinking when the article stated they wanted kernel dev's.
      doing some research it would seem that the only way for steam to keep the same drm(compression / encryption + process monitoring etc all above the control of the user) is to have a run time kernel module inserted either upon boot or load of the client.

      IF the claim by them is true that steam is getting a linux port. and IF the only way they want to do this is to make one of the first few pieces of linux native drm. THEN i can predict what happens.

      client is released, No distro's pick it up because they can no longer contribute to the kernel as the drm module taints it thus all bugs are layed on the tainting module. a fraction of the users then they expected adopt the client, half a year or one quarter later they drop the client due to poor linux game sales being a fraction of the mac-osx sales which are a fraction of windows. the vocal part of the community bitches and moans about their commitment. osx users are quiet because they are a small percentage of users. window's users of the system act smugly saying 'i told you so' in leet along with some decade year old misconceptions on linux.

      when the fact of the matter is the platform it's self considers stuff like DRM as damage and works around it. No distro will pick it up because to do so would mean extra money, time, and effort dealing with kernel bugs by trying to reproduce them without their drm loaded. kernel and software devs will off hand refuse to listen to bug reports posted by people who have it installed. etc.

    4. Re:Yay! Native DRM! Finally!! by gman003 · · Score: 2

      Valve is what I call "nice DRM". The things it stops you from doing are generally pretty mild - can't be online in more than one place at once, can't run games you haven't bought. As long as you're in online mode, you'll never even notice it. Offline mode is about as tricky as some DRM platforms' online modes - basically, as long as you've been permitted to play the game before, you'll be allowed to do so in offline mode (although patches have an unfortunate tendency to break that, making you go back online). As far as I know, it's never been found to do any sort of secret spying on the user - even the hardware survey (checks what hardware you're running on, so Valve knows what kind of computers they should be optimizing for) is opt-in.

      It lets you do things many DRM systems would not allow - you can run on any computer you want, even simultaneously (although only one can be in "online" mode). You can play on LAN in offline mode, even against "yourself" - I regularly duel my brother in CS:S using just one copy of the game. You can copy and modify game files. Nothing is encrypted EXCEPT games that have not been released yet - many games will let you "prepurchase" them, start downloading a week or two before release, then all you need to do on release day is decrypt the files, usually takes about five minutes.

      Compared to other DRM, Steam is at worst "tolerable". If what you care about is "playing games", Steam is fine, because any minor impediments it puts up are offset by it making many games more available. Steam's competitors, like Origin, tend to cause much more headache, and even most gamers only use them for the platform-exclusive games (I'd bet 90% of all Origin accounts have Battlefield 3 and/or Mass Effect 3, and nothing else).

      tl;dr the only people butthurt about Steam's DRM are the people who don't actually like games, they just like complaining about "oppressive" DRM.

    5. Re:Yay! Native DRM! Finally!! by Requiem18th · · Score: 1

      Is Steam really a DRM solution? I mean, so far I've noticed that the Steam games I've installed carry their own brand of DRM, and I have at least met with one Steam game that didn't have any useful form of DRM. I don't think Steam does DRM itself. It is more of a sales platform unified with installers and "social" stuff bolted in.

      --
      But... the future refused to change.
    6. Re:Yay! Native DRM! Finally!! by Confusador · · Score: 1

      Thank you for this. I don't use Steam (because Linux), and regularly play games that are >10 years old. My only concern with this was that I wouldn't have offline/lan play available, so that when they kill the matchmaking servers I wouldn't be able to play without crazy hacks. Now I'm jonesing for them to just release it already!

    7. Re:Yay! Native DRM! Finally!! by PhloppyPhallus · · Score: 1

      Steamworks DRM is an option, but not a requirement, for anyone who uses Steamworks when developing their game. And it's fairly unobtrusive. Some games will use both Steamworks and more invasive DRM. But you're right, many games come through Steam totally DRM free. For instance, you can just copy many of the Paradox Interactive titles from their install folder and put them on a different computer, and they'll just run.

  22. No. by Kidbro · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Phoronix never confirms anything. Phoronix makes shit up, or possibly, at best, speculates.

    Can we get a story when this is reported by a place that's at least remotely trustworthy?

    1. Re:No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Phoronix never confirms anything.

      Of course not. That's Netcraft's job.

    2. Re:No. by theweatherelectric · · Score: 1

      Phoronix never confirms anything. Phoronix makes shit up, or possibly, at best, speculates.

      You should probably read the article. Michael Larabel went to Valve's offices in Bellevue, Washington and spoke to Gabe Newell among others. It isn't a question of confirmation. In this instance you're essentially claiming that either Michael Larabel is lying, or Gabe Newell and others at Valve are lying, or both. Do you have evidence of that or are you, at best, speculating?

    3. Re:No. by Kidbro · · Score: 1

      I am speculating, admittedly. Just as I'm speculating when I suggest that Uncyclopedia, Fred Phelps or Bagdad Bob might not be telling the truth. There comes a point when trust in a source is so deteriorated that nothing they say can be taken at face value.
      Phoronix reached this level several years ago.
      I'm not claiming that Michael Larabel is lying. I'm claiming that it's just about as likely that Michael Larabel is lying as that he isn't. And when it comes to news, that's pretty poor odds.

  23. Mirror by PhrstBrn · · Score: 1
    1. Re:Mirror by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

      /.ed? That's impossible. Nobody uses Linux on the desktop or is interested in it, right?

    2. Re:Mirror by Shoe+Puppet · · Score: 0

      Nobody reads Slashdot anymore either.

      --
      (+1, Disagree)
  24. Re: "closed source app" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Those were the key words.

  25. Re:lol overhyped shit by Desler · · Score: 1

    Wow all valve games? So that's like 7? OMG!

  26. Re:lol overhyped shit by rfdparker2002 · · Score: 1

    But then again it removes another stumbling block for users who might be interested in Linux but want to be able to play game X before they do so, and Valve have a lot of games with strong followings - Team Fortress, Counter-Strike, Half-Life, Portal, Left 4 Dead, to name a few.

    So again what'll this be?
    * Valve's own pretty damn popular Source and GoldSrc games
    * A big bunch of indie games already available for Linux (largely thanks to the Humble Bundles)
    * Valve's Steam content distribution platform

    And that last part is important - it removes another obstacle for other big (more conservative) game developers/publishers, "Is there a distribution channel I can trust?". That's not to say there aren't plenty of other obstacles to overcome, but once the ball starts rolling... It's Valve's combination of their own great titles and a trusted distribution channel that makes this more encouraging than any other large publisher/developer porting a few popular titles over.

  27. Re:A Steam client doesn't guarantee platform suppo by Spad · · Score: 2
  28. WooOOOOohooooo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just wanted to express how I do not fit your stereotype :)

  29. Re:lol overhyped shit by h4rr4r · · Score: 2

    The following are just the ones that cost money and are directly from Valve.
    This is already 14 games. Adding in the free stuff like Lost Coast and modds will greatly increase this list, but even 7 Vavle games on linux would be big news.

    Half Life
    Counter Strike
    Blue Shift
    Opposing Force

    Half Life 2
    Half Life 2: Deathmatch
    Half Life 2: Episode 1
    Half Life 2: Episode 2

    Left For Dead
    Left For Dead 2

    Portal
    Portal 2

    Team Fortress
    Team Fortress 2

  30. Perfect for me-- one fewer Windows license at home by Animal+Farm+Pig · · Score: 1

    I have a few computers at home running a variety of operating systems, but the two I use most frequently both run Windows 7. One is my work PC. I need to run Windows on that one because there are a few applications I need for work that are Windows only. The other is my gaming machine. I play a couple of Source mods on it,and I use Windows because it's much easier than trying to run the games on Linux.

    If Valve would release Steam on Linux, and make it easy and straightforward to install Source mods on Linux, I will happily switch to Linux on my gaming machine. I'd even put up with Ubuntu if that were the distro they targeted. It would save me having to use a Windows license just to do gaming.

    Perhaps Steam/Source on Linux wouldn't appeal to hardcore gamers who buy the latest AAA title every couple of months, but, for me, it's excellent.

  31. Re:lol overhyped shit by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 1

    Games like CoD, Mass Effect, the Blizzard games are more popular and will have no Linux versions. Even if all The people who play Valve games switched that wouldn't even be 1% of all PC users. It would at best be a tiny blip not the mass exodus the loony Linux people think it'll be.

  32. Re:Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! by lattyware · · Score: 1

    http://www.sevendaycooldown.com/site/episode001/ That's an interview with Gabe Newell where he specifically states he is currently working on Linux. The Phoronix article talks about him going to see Valve working on it, and Valve are hiring Linux developers. That's pretty strong confirmation.

    --
    -- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
  33. I was writing a non-DRMed, Linux-native game by Heliosphere1 · · Score: 2

    It's an Elite-like: I develop it natively on Linux, although it runs on Windows also. However, the project is pretty close to dying on the vine for lack of any discernible interest. It's just a personal project done with no budget (at all), so wouldn't compete with major studios in the graphics department, but I think it's at least semi-credible on that front for a one-man indie game. (If curious, see Part1 Part2 Part3, though be prepared for amateurish presentation. I'm genuinely curious, since I thought there'd be some in the Linux community who'd like such a game).

    It's a bit sad, but I suspect the project would have had far more interest if I *had* chosen to DRM it and sell it on Steam, but I'm about as anti-DRM as they come, even for a project I've put a year of my life into. I'll give up the whole thing before I'll allow DRM anywhere near it, even if that means it cannot succeed.

    1. Re:I was writing a non-DRMed, Linux-native game by Hatta · · Score: 1

      That's a shame. There's definitely a market for such a game. Space sims are hard to come by commercially, and Notch got a lot of interest when he announced his. I think you just haven't found the right community to promote it on, though I'm not sure where the right place would be.

      BTW, I was unable to get that video to play, even after permitting 10 different scripts to run it still complained about flash. But flash works everywhere else for me, and even on different videos on the same site.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    2. Re:I was writing a non-DRMed, Linux-native game by Heliosphere1 · · Score: 1

      I sincerely appreciate your taking the time to try - very few have even looked - and the feedback (find a better video hosting site) is very useful for me. You've my gratitude.

      I'm sorry about your video experience; I don't have a site for the game yet (it's a bit early in development). I tried to use youtube for the videos, but that didn't work when they required a cell phone number for verification, which I don't have. Dailymotion was not my first choice of video hosting sites, believe me, but I didn't have luck with Vimeo or Youtube. Eventually, if I can get this project to live (it's gasping for every breath at the moment), I'll buy real hosting and a message forum for it. I do have some direct links to the AVI files on filehosting.org, but I'm not sure I trust that site enough to post the links here, unless someone knows for certain it's safe.

    3. Re:I was writing a non-DRMed, Linux-native game by sapphire+wyvern · · Score: 2

      FYI, I've heard that Steam's DRM layer is optional and is applied at the publisher's discretion (not Valve's). Games that don't have the DRM turned on can be launched by just running the executable; the Steam client doesn't need to be running. These games are quite rare but I believe some examples do exist. (Defcon, perhaps? Try Google for examples). Although you can still only download the the game using the client, insofar as Valve offers no direct download servers.

      You might also try Desura or GOG. Neither of those use DRM. However, all three are for "merchantable" quality games, not tech demos or alphas. Steam does offer mods for Valve games but that's about its limit for amateur efforts.

    4. Re:I was writing a non-DRMed, Linux-native game by Heliosphere1 · · Score: 1

      Nod - thanks for the info; I will investigate the non-DRM Steam situation when the time comes. It will be some time before this is a playable game, although I feel it is further along and more polished than two or three other efforts in the genre that seem to be widely reported on. At the moment, I'm just trying to ascertain whether there would be any interest, and there seems to be not a shred, which is pretty discouraging - I've come close to giving up. Gaming sites like Joystiq haven't wanted to run anything about it, which makes me think either there isn't a market for this genre any more, or it's going in a direction that people don't like (e.g, lots of ship-systems modeling, a thing more at home in the 90's gaming market than today, perhaps, when more simplified experiences are preferred).

  34. Haven't use Linux in a decade? by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 0

    "(Presuming people can get their video drivers working.)"

    Ok ok, lets lay off the "Linux is hard to use" rhetorical bullshit. On every decent Linux distribution, getting Video drivers to work in 2012 is a matter of clicking on the OK button in the little dialog saying "Use Proprietary Driver" in the GUI based config tool.

    --
    Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    1. Re:Haven't use Linux in a decade? by chill · · Score: 2

      Next up, audio.

      Please help me in getting both sound and in-game VoIP running in the Linux-native ETQW. I have spent hours and hours on this and had it working once, 3 years ago.

      I've messed with Pulse Audio, ALSA, OSS-emulation, Arts, Esound and a couple of others all to no avail. I can get sound fine, but VoIP either doesn't work or causes a segfault.

      The fact that all those different audio subsystems exist at all is the issue.

      --
      Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
    2. Re:Haven't use Linux in a decade? by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      I have to agree with you that Audio can be a tricky issue, and it is a potential barrier if you set your system up yourself. However, let's compare likewise systems. Windows boxen come configured with the correct drivers, etc.. You paid someone to do so when you bought the system. So pay someone qualified to set up your Linux system. You'll be glad you did.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    3. Re:Haven't use Linux in a decade? by Lucractius · · Score: 1

      Defeating the point of linux that ... you can do it all yourself.

      --
      XML - A clever joke would be here if /. didn't mangle tag brackets.
    4. Re:Haven't use Linux in a decade? by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      Who said that was the "point" of Linux?

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    5. Re:Haven't use Linux in a decade? by Lucractius · · Score: 1

      Its the implied point. "You have the source code, if something doesnt work then you have no obstacles to fixing it yourself" and other such RMSish statements.

      Not saying you should have to do it all. Just saying that the fact you "CAN" do it yourself is a significant part of the reason Linux was created and grew in the first place.

      --
      XML - A clever joke would be here if /. didn't mangle tag brackets.
    6. Re:Haven't use Linux in a decade? by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      "Its the implied point"

      I guess someone forgot to tell that to a whole bunch of people!

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
  35. Do it well and I might finally move from Windows by JustAnotherIdiot · · Score: 2

    I've said for years and years and years, the main reason I don't use a Linux box as my main is because I can't play any games without messing with emulators or dual boot or some such, and quite frankly, I've never want to deal with it.
    However, if this goes over well, and developers/publishers start actually using it? I'll probably finally switch over to some form of Linux.
    I guess we'll just have to wait and see how this plays out.

    --
    What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
  36. Interested in the Native Client by jaminJay · · Score: 1

    I've been running Steam under CrossOver's WINE for a couple of years now, and it's been pretty good. A few games refuse to play nice (Live!, anyone?), but those that do have excellent performance. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens when a few layers of wrappers are removed.

    --
    Leela: "Is all the work done by children?" Alien: "No, not the whipping."
  37. Re:lol overhyped shit by Baloroth · · Score: 2

    Yeah, a "niche market". It isn't like Steam regularly has ~4 million users on it at any given time. By comparison. Xbox Live has peaked (peaked) at 3 million (Steam regularly breaks 4.5 and has peaked at over 5). Granted, that isn't a completely fair comparison, since a lot of steam users are likely to stay logged in 24 hours a day, but the fact that Skyrim had 350,000+ concurrent players near launch indicates that no, it isn't a "niche" market at all, by any means.

    Oh and Valve currently has 2 games in playable beta status (one has 50,000 concurrent players regularly) and just released a game last year.

    --
    "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
  38. Re:lol overhyped shit by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

    "YEAR OF THE LINUX DESKTOP IS NOW ASSURED!!!"

    What exactly is it about Valve releasing Linux software that makes you think you will travel backwards in time to the point where Linux on the desktop became vastly superior to Windows?

    --
    Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
  39. Re:lol overhyped shit by CanHasDIY · · Score: 2

    Wow all valve games? So that's like 7? OMG!

    I'll take 7 good-to-awesome games over 4000 shitty ones any day of the week.

    Quality, comrade, not quantity (lol, tity...).

    --
    An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
  40. They haven't bitched before, why would they now. by pavon · · Score: 1

    ... pretty much anybody gaming on Linux is already probably resigned to closed source binaries: their graphics drivers if nothing else(and presumably most of the games that they've coaxed into working under WINE(maybe there are a few OSS games with such strong Windows ties that WINE is easier than a port; but I'm having a hard time thinking of any)

    This. If crazyjj was right, then where was all the bitching when iD was releasing their games on Linux years ago, when an even greater percentage of Linux users were doing so for ideological reasons. If there is any bitching about Steam it will be about the DRM, and that already happens without a Linux port.

  41. Re:lol overhyped shit by rfdparker2002 · · Score: 1

    Even if all The people who play Valve games switched that wouldn't even be 1% of all PC users.

    PC users or PC gamers?

    If you're talking about all PC users then possibly, sure. But largely thanks to Steam and its ilk, PC gaming has been argued to be growing again.

    If you're talking about PC gamers then you must be pretty mistaken, particularly with Valve running Steam today, Valve's own games are a lot larger than that in the PC gaming market.

    And the other point? Well quite possibly - I'd think EA and Activision are quite conservative - but then again they can just sit back and see how well Valve does on Linux, and if it does well they'll have a trusted distribution channel via which to dip toes themselves.

    In any case having now noticed your username/nick I'm not going to continue replying to your comments, as it seems you've only registered the account to troll.

  42. Re: "closed source app" by sirlark · · Score: 1

    It's not so much "closed source app", it's more along the lines of "app that tries to spew files all over my file system without a reliable uninstall technique, coupled with the fact that it won't play nicely with the libraries I already have installed, it has to install it's own copies". I understand the libraries thing to an extent, and I am willing to forgive that, but for god's sake, make the linux port obey the FHS at least.

  43. Re:Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! by DAldredge · · Score: 1

    Isn't linux used to power a large portion of the steam servers?

  44. Re:Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! by lattyware · · Score: 1

    Yes, but OpenGL developers working on the Source engine wouldn't be much use there.

    --
    -- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
  45. New console by larppaxyz · · Score: 1

    I think this is all part of Valve releasing their own console in next few years. Yes it runs Linux.

  46. Hope it's not like the Windows experience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I tried Steam for a while on Windows and it was a terrible experience. My downloads would often hang, the client was unstable and my password kept getting reset almost every day. After a week I removed the client. I might try a Linux version, but I can only hope it's not as buggy as my experience on Windows.

  47. Re:Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! by DAldredge · · Score: 1

    They would be on the OSX side of valve.

  48. Re:Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! by ZeroSumHappiness · · Score: 1

    Yes. However, running a server instance is the /least/ interesting thing a video game client does.

  49. From Valves perspective... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe a linux port is merely the off-shoot (read: upside) of possibly developing their own hardware platform to throw out?

    Certainly worth supporting if this is also a goal.

  50. Case-Sensitive by gosuperninja · · Score: 1

    I hope a side effect of this would be added case-sensitive FS support. Running OS X with case sensitivity turned on is a hurdle for Steam.

  51. Steam Client Clarifications by hackus · · Score: 1

    Could someone explain why this is a big deal?

    This wont allow Linux to magically play direct x games.

    It wont magically make opengl attractive for game publishers.

    Finally it will not fix the 3D video issues in card drivers.

    I find it sort of puts the horse before the cart.

    Comments?

    -Hack

    --
    Got Geometrodynamics? Awe, too hard to figure out? Too bad.
    1. Re:Steam Client Clarifications by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      There's more and more games for Linux all the time and games which have Windows releases and are distributed via Steam often have a Linux release which could also be distributed via the same system. If Valve is bothering to do this they will likely produce Linux ports of future games produced within their engine. It paves the way for a future Steambox which is not running Windows.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Steam Client Clarifications by tommituura · · Score: 2

      There's also talks about Source Engine being ported to Linux.

      Now, I'm not really privy to how high-end game development works, so I can't really say how much the engine lets developers really keep their hands off of DirectX/OpenGL stuff, but I have let myself to believe that stuff really is handled mostly by the engine.

      Ergo, if the engine handles the graphics stuff and it's ported to use OpenGL on Linux, it should, in essence, make Linux & OpenGL at least a little bit less repulsive choice for game devs.

      The issue about 3D video drivers still stands, though. However... if people are able to put up with closed-source, proprietary stuff like Steam Client, Source Engine and the games themselves in the first place, they are most likely going to have proprietary binary blob drivers, too.

      Note: I don't do much current gaming, I am only in near future going to switch all-linux, and haven't really had any experience how good or bad the binary drivers are. So take my comments with a grain of salt.

    3. Re:Steam Client Clarifications by diego.viola · · Score: 2

      I believe Linux gaming will also accelerate development of Linux and drivers. Think about it, the more people stress our graphics stack with intensive 3D the more development will happen, bug reports, fixes, etc.

  52. Re:A Steam client doesn't guarantee platform suppo by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 1

    I wonder if Valve can include Wine integration; allow the Linux client to download the Windows-only games and launch them through Wine.

  53. Incentive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Valve porting means that hardware manufacturers will have to take Linux support into account and that will make other publishers feel safer about the stability of the platform and in turn that will bring more games and more games will bring more people, more people will be clamoring for better hardware support and so on and so forth...
    Again, the old chicken and egg problem, someone has to be break the cycle of Windows.

  54. Re:A Steam client doesn't guarantee platform suppo by sapphire+wyvern · · Score: 1

    I'm fairly sure some of the "Mac compatible" games use WINE, so I don't see why not.

  55. valve must be getting desperate... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    with the windows app store only a few months away steam is going to become highly irrelevant.

    1. Re:valve must be getting desperate... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Posting again to clarify my statements: I'm actually pretty dense, sorry guys.

  56. Hope and Lies by Jawnn · · Score: 1

    Valve has yet to officially comment, but you'd hope they wouldn't invite someone up to their offices and send them home to spew lies.

    Why not? A certain political party does that with Fox News every single day. OK, usually they just send out the memo with the day's lies, er... "talking points" on it, but that's the routine, and a successful one it's been.

  57. Only reason I have windows by watermark · · Score: 1

    Screw you guys, I'm excited.

    If Valve puts Steam on Linux, along with all/most of their Source games...I vow to finally, and fully, ditch Windows. Games are the only reason I have windows installed at all. Wine/PlayOnLinux/Crossover is good, but it's not that good. Once more games come to Linux, I predict more geeks will move to all Linux systems, and from there, drive commoner adoption of Linux.

    There, I said it, year of the Linux desktop.

  58. Spyware by Foresto · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The rest of the comment I won't even bother to address. Just not worth my time explaining debugging and such.

    The rest of the comment was about one of the two major problems I have with Steam, and I happen to know more than a little about software development, so I'm going to speak up about that one point: The ability to collect runtime information is both very helpful for debugging and very invasive to the host system. Give the owner of the system the ability to enable it only if & when it is needed. Problem solved. Insisting on having it running at all times makes it spyware, which is rather telling about the publisher's intentions.

    1. Re:Spyware by Emetophobe · · Score: 1

      Steam has monthly hardware surveys if that's what you're referring to, and they're completely optional (opt-in, not opt-out).

  59. Re: "closed source app" by oakgrove · · Score: 2

    Hell, if nothing else, just do what Canonical suggests third party devs do and just install your binaries/libraries to /opt, put an icon in /usr/share/icons and put a .desktop file in /usr/share/applications. Problem solved. It ain't that hard, people.

    --
    The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
  60. yah just use a self supporting tarball by RobertLTux · · Score: 1

    if you target for 32/64 bit and pack your libs in the package you should be fine for anything reasonably current.

    (not counting things like "MLPnix" which requires libs to be in a very certain format or something else stupid or some specialty distro from 6 years ago)

    --
    Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
  61. Re: Good luck .. Score 5 TROLL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You should be on the stage with this mind-reading act of yours ...

  62. Linux + Hardware = Valve's console runs linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nobody else is connecting the dots??

    http://games.slashdot.org/story/12/04/13/1723200/valve-hiring-hardware-developers

    This might mean that valve's console for which they are hiring developers might be a linux based platform.

  63. All I have to say to Valve is... by neuro88 · · Score: 1

    All I have to say to Valve is... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QfSzgV1q5g&list=FLvBRX_MN60k-n_Sd8IOuNsQ&index=8&feature=plpp_video

    Kudos to Michael Larabel (sic?) of phoronix for not only delivering this news well before anyone else, but also getting it right (even if the dates were off).

    Hopefully I get into the beta program...

  64. Re:Perfect for me-- one fewer Windows license at h by Confusador · · Score: 1

    I'd even put up with Ubuntu if that were the distro they targeted.

    Agreed, I'd put up with whatever distro is necessary, especially because I wouldn't have to deal with it except when gaming. "Reboot into gaming distro" beats the hell out of "reboot into Windows."

  65. ID Software, Epic? by DMJC · · Score: 1

    Valve need to be able to back this up with ID Software/Epic games on the linux version. If the Linux native quake 1/2/3/4, Doom 1/2/3, Wolfenstein/RTCW games are available on steam, along with UT2k3/UT2k4/UT99 that would be a much better incentive for people to join the store. Source engine games are awesome. But as a Mac gamer I was very disappointed to see that half the games that have native ports, aren't available on the store for mac. I know Aspyr were trying to launch their own terrible competing service. I hope the Linux Steam system can dodge those issues since most linux ports of games are done in-house, or by Ryan "Icculus" Gordon. Also, it'd be nice to see some of the DOSBox game releases on Steam appear on linux. It's not that hard to setup dosbox for Linux, and all those titles run fine. Ultimately Steam on Linux can only be a good thing, I hope that it will finally goad Blizzard into action on its Linux offerings.

  66. Not FPS by DrYak · · Score: 1

    Portal 1&2 aren't FPSes at all.
    For starters they doesn't even have weapons to shoot with for the "S" part of FPS.
    And not really much adversaries to shoot at (beside a few turrets and suveillance cameras scathered accross the came)

    They would be best described as First Person Puzzle or Action/Puzzle games. Lumping them into the FPS category just because they use first person perspective, would be like lumping classical point'n'clic games into RTS category, just because they also use a 2D mouse interface.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  67. Source games by DrYak · · Score: 1

    Except that HL2, Portal 1&2 and several other games waiting to be ported to Linux have all been cirically acclaimed by several rather trusted sources.

    It's one thing when one single person thinks that Atari's ET is the best game ever, it's another when dozens of magazines, even more dozens of online reviewers, and countless blogs all acclaim the quality of the Portal serie (it means either that a lot of people share this opnion and you're likely to like them too, or that Valve is rather good at paying astroturfers and corrupt reviewers).

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  68. pulse audio by DrYak · · Score: 1

    recent revrions of pulseaudio (0.9 and 1.x), as featured in modern distros are rather good.
    you need to have an ALSA configuration setting up a pulseaudio target as the default target for all ALSA based applications - but most modern distro will do that for you.

    alternatively just use a soundcard with hardware mixing (for exemple EMU10k based soundblasters: Live!, Audigy 1 & 2. X-Fi's hardware mixing not supported as of yet)

    also, whenever possible, please use the opensourced version of the game engine instead of the original binary. so use ioquake3 and the like (which are using modern technologies such as OpenAL and ALSA) instead of the original ETQW binary (running on the outdated OSS).

    As Source is being ported *now*, it will probably use modern uptodate APIs like SDL, OpenGL and OpenAL, and thus work fine in most modern distros.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  69. That's games. by DrYak · · Score: 1

    We're speaking about plain fucking games here.

    Not some complex application calling 37 different external libraries, of which 27 need to be the exact version as the software was compiled on, because of incompatible ABIs between versions.
    (That happens a lot, for exemple, with complex scientific software. They tend to be compiled and tested only against RedHat, so one has to limit the choice of distros only to Red Hat, Fedora, Cent OS, Scitentific Linux, etc.)

    But games. They need OpenGL, OpenAL, a few other basic standard libraries (SDL, glibc). Maybe OpenCL for hardware accelerated physics. And that's it. The first two and the optionnal last are industry standards, the other 2 are ubiquitous. If correctly coded to standards a game should work almost everywhere. A game doesn't even need toplay nicely with the OS GUI, as most of the time it's run fullscreen.
    The rest of the complexity is *inside* the game binary. Like middleware for physics, media decoding and the likes. And game developper tend to link those statically to their project and/or package it together with the game.

    Even Skype has more dependencies (needs Qt).

    Well, it would be nice to save some space and use the system wide libraries for some functionnality (like decoding JPEG), but up until now, commercial games tend to package their own copies. At least it could be done on the Steam level (have steam require JPeg version 6), and to take care of having security updated version of these.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  70. Re:lol overhyped shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You must be scared of Linux. The most played games on Steam are Valve games, thus if everyone switched, you'd have a majority on Linux.

    Furthermore, no one is claiming that everyone will switch. No one assumed everyone would switch to Macs. It's just a new market.

  71. Re:lol overhyped shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Virtually every game Valve has made is a masterpiece and worth playing no matter the age.

    Highly subjective, I've honestly never played a Valve game I particularly liked. Portal was OK, that's about the best I can say of any of them.

  72. Re:lol overhyped shit by lattyware · · Score: 1

    Well, then you disagree with me and a lot of other people. Everyone has different tastes, but I loved those games, and I can't really see how anyone could not love Portal and Portal 2.

    --
    -- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
  73. Re:lol overhyped shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was just pointing out that whether a game is good or not is subjective. You're certainly free to disagree (which you obviously do). I just get annoyed when people seem to assume their opinion is universal. Had you but qualified your statement with something like "In my opinion" or similar, I wouldn't have reacted.

    Anyway, Portal was novel and somewhat amusing for about an hour, then it was just more of the same. Portal 2 I've never actually tried, as I figured it'd just be even more of it (and I've yet to read or see anything to prove me wrong). But then, I'm pretty bored with games in general these days and precious few catch my interest at all.

  74. Playing on Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This will be triumph.
    I'm making note here, HUGE SUCCESS.
    It's hard to overestimate my satisfaction.
    It's Linux Gamer
    I play HIB games
    because I must
    If there would be commercial ones
    I would play them instead

    But there's no sense in crying over this thing
    Steam for Linux is coming to ring.
    And the players are happy
    And you make neat game
    For the people who play on Linux

    I'm not even angry
    I'm being so sincere right now
    Even though you ignored me now
    And didn't make games
    And force me to use WINE

    Since I knew you will change your mind!
    Now Steam for Linux is coming soon enough.
    Soon it's out of beta
    Will release on time!
    So I'm GLaD it's over
    Think of all the things we learned
    About people who play on Linux

    Go ahead download it.
    I think I'll see how it works
    Maybe you'll find some new games?
    Maybe HL Ep. 3?
    THAT WAS A JOKE
    HAHA. FAT CHANCE
    Anyway Steam is great.
    It has neat games son for you
    Look at HAPPYPENGUIN
    when Steam is released
    When I use Linux, it makes me GLaD it won't get ill
    Because of some virus
    Or another trojan horse
    That don't happen on Linux
    And believe me I play on Linux
    I am porting Portal for Linux
    I work FANTASTIC and play on Linux
    While you're waiting I'll play on Linux
    And when it's done I will play on Linux
    On Linux
    On Linux