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Steve Jobs' Idea For an Ad-Supported OS
milbournosphere writes "It looks like Steve drew up an idea for an ad-supported OS. A patent was filed back in 2009 detailing how it was done. From the article: 'Rather than charge the normal upgrade price, which in those days was $99, he was thinking of shipping a second version of Mac OS 9 that would be given away for free — but would be supported instead by advertising. The theory was that this would pull in a ton of people who didn't normally upgrade because of the price, but Apple would still generate income through the advertising. And any time an owner of the free version wanted to get rid of the advertising, he or she could simply pay for the ad-free version. Steve's team had worked out the preliminary numbers the concept seemed financially sound.'"
Forum post says Mac OS X. I don't think he'd get many takers for Mac OS 9, even if he was giving it away without ads.
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
Steve Jobs came up with the idea of ad supported software, that you can pay for to remove the ads! Awesome! The man truely was a genius.
That's a classic bait n' switch. How usable would an OS that pops ads all the time be? What if, after installing, they upped the ad frequency etc? Would the ads be embedded or fetched over the network? Could you downgrade to your previously legally obtained, ad-free, OS without losing all your work?
This isn't an Apple bash or even a Steve Jobs bash. That idea is pure, unadulterated, marketing evilness.
Nothing cheapens a product like plastering it with ads even if you can get rid of them by paying.
Part of the patent is replacing ads in applications with ads that send money to Apple instead.
The summary is confusing and inaccurate. The patent was filed in 2008 (not 2009), and the reference to MacOS 9 was referring to a piece in a book ("Insanely Simple: The Obsession That Drives Apple's Success" by Ken Segall, according to the linked article) that suggests that the idea for the patent originated in 1999 (not 2008 or 2009) with Steve Jobs -- back when OS9 was heading towards release, making the reference to OS9 actually make sense.
All this gleamed from clicking the sole link in the /. post, spending 15 seconds skimming it, and having a very basic knowledge of recent OS history. Proofreading, please?
Who would have thought of such a thing but Steve Jobs. Even from the grave he is still amazing us. Provide stuff for free using advertising - I can't get over it.
It's come to this? Advertising permeating everything we do because it in some way makes what we're doing more affordable?
We all pay the cost of advertising. The fact that the majority of the Web is ad-supported is depressing.
Please wait.. I can't load your text editor yet because I'm trying to load the ads up that you must view as part of the overall "user experience"
cat patent.txt | sed -e 's/ad-supported/Chineese Water Torture/g' > /dev/null
could pull such an idea off, they originally tried it with Android and got nowhere, albeit in the mobile industry they had carriers to deal with too. They will probably try it again in a couple of years with Chrome OS, I remain sceptical it can work. Apple didn't and still doesn't have the muscle in the advertisement business to do such a thing.
There were companies in the late 90's and early 2000 that were doing this with PC's and free internet. How soon we forget. Eudora or Opera anyone?
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
1. Put adverts in OS
.
.
.
.
2. Call it an "upgrade", not adware
3. Patent it
4. Threaten all add supported software makers with lawsuits (planned)
5. Make unfathomable wealth by not actually inventing or even implementing anything (goal)
How do you know for sure it's his idea?
It's been my experience that in any company of over 30 people, the top guy's idea really wasn't his. That he just got to call it his, because of being where he is in the company.
"Steve Jobs came up with the idea of ad supported software, that you can pay for to remove the ads! Awesome! The man truely was a genius."
No, he only took it to a new level, and in a traditional Steve Jobs style - a lower level.
He was cheap.
Back in 1999, there was freepc.com. They didn't just give away the OS - they gave you a whole computer. Applications could only use a 640 x 480 area of the screen, which was a common monitor size back then. But FreePC shipped with a bigger monitor and display card. The rest of the screen was devoted to ads.
Like most web sites today. And phones. And tablets...
They were just ahead of their time.
Or how about an ad-supported free computer?
Also, note the date on that article. Steve Jobs was way behind on this one.
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
Everytime I turn on my Mac, I get that picture of an apple.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
If rollback is simple I don't see this as a bad thing. Who wouldn't have killed for an ad-supported Vista or ME trial before buying the upgrade?
Basically, Apple would have been paid to let you trial their new OS. I think this is a good happy medium.
No longer are their options to remove Ad's from your OS. Doing so is actually against the Law. This is one step towards that direction.
Man Jobs was worse than I thought. Not even M$ would do this.
To offset political mods, replace Flamebait with Insightful.
It would only be a matter of time before we have to pay AND see ads in the OS.
And this is different from the current mobile app model/ad-supported shareware model how?
My problem is the tray apps and services that are unavoidable that turn my machine into an advertising platform.
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
except for the "patented" part.
expandfairuse.org
How about an OS that doesn't cost money AND it doesn't have ads either. That would be pretty cool. Surprised no one has thought of this.
Chrome OS -- it's designed to integrate with the Google ecosystem, whose purpose is advertising in exchange for services. It's a step removed, but it's the moral equivalent.
I'm hoping that Apple applied for the patent just to block Google from ever doing it. Jobs might have conceived of it, but he had the wisdom not to do it and now the idea sounds like something much more likely to get deployed by Google than Apple.
EXACTLY
Let's just *always* give the OS away for free...!!! .... reminds me, what was that Linux thing again?
Man Jobs was worse than I thought. Not even M$ would do this.
Yes, Microsoft would never foist ad-supported software on its users
On the other hand, Apple has been foisting this on...well, nobody, since they decided not to go ahead with it.
It seems to me that an improvement to this model would be to have the OS upgrade be ad supported until your ad views paid for the $99 price tag of the upgrade. That way, the OS company gets their money, you work off your OS cost by viewing ads, and you don't have to view ads for an infinite duration.
As in, there is no prior art for giving software away for free (or for a reduced price) based on forcing the user to view the occasional advertisement?
I am surprised Apple isn't using this "patent" to go after the ad-supported Kindle in an effort to get the upper hand in content (especially after Apple's smack-down on price fixing for e-books)....
Fuck that shit.
Couldn't you just block the ad server at the router/firewall level?
Would the OS fail to work if it could not download ads?
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
Well, it's like an app that launches apps. Cue "yo dawg i herd you like ad-supported apps so we put ad-supported apps in you ad-supported app so u can be bothered while u're being bothered".
If i remember right, some obscure company tried something like this with a Linux laptop where you got the middle of the screen to yourself, and the border was filled with ads
It was a bad idea and it failed.
However, if you look at the average persons 'browser' these days with all the tool bars and popups, its almost like we are doing it now anyway..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Excuse your English (épais !) but the whole World doesn't Need" google. I'd go back to Alta Vista and 1995 in two seconds, back then we didn't have the web infested with crap. Google is a phishing scam intended on selling your use and private info to marketers and using it for their own goals as well. So go ahead, mock the other poster, some of us were on here before all this started and did fine.
End of Line.
Assuming that all security updates hit both versions at the same time I love this...
I wish MS had that option, it was annoying and frightening to see how many people I knew back in 09-10 that refused to upgrade from XP to 7 because they didn't want to invest in their 2-4 year old PCs that were due for replacement when or IF they got a bonus, tax refund or whatever a few months or even a year later. I would rather see a 5 year old PC running ad supported win 7 with all updates than AD Free XP.
Maybe there would have been some pre-defined ads that shipped on the install media with new ones downloaded when possible ? Anyway this is very much an idea of its time, I remember there were Internet providers at the time too that gave you "free" access and injected a banner-ad at the top of your browser screen.
If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
As we all know, an ad-supported OS is soooooooooooooo much different than an ad-supported application. It's Revolutionary!
I have a machine at home that I'd like to bring back to life. If Microsoft offered an ad-supported version of 7 that didn't cost any money, I'd be very happy with that. And seeing as how that doesn't exist right now....
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
MS *did* do this with their office suite.
There's an edition of Vista that doesn't let you change the background (that's a premium feature!), or run more than 5 tasks at a time. It usually comes bundles with the ad-supported version of office, which takes about 50% of your screen real-estate on the netbooks that actully had it pre-installed.
Well their goal isn't to advertise to you at any cost, it's to make money off of the advertising. I don't know how much they're going to get off of install media advertisements compared to Internet advertisements. I guess it sort of works for Dell / HP / etc. for Windows installs ("craplets"), but that's not quite the same thing as this proposal.
I suppose the goal could be to irritate you into paying full price, but they would have an easier time just not creating the ad-supported version than creating it and then trying to get people not to use it (that said, they didn't make it).
As in, there is no prior art for giving software away for free (or for a reduced price) based on forcing the user to view the occasional advertisement?
I am surprised Apple isn't using this "patent" to go after the ad-supported Kindle in an effort to get the upper hand in content (especially after Apple's smack-down on price fixing for e-books)....
It's just an application, and is still in examination . The claims have also changed significantly from as originally filed.
Google already did it. They don't advertise on the OS, they just take all your information and sell it to advertisers. Same family of stupidity, I suppose.
The price is always right if someone else is paying.
Whooosh?
I think you are missing the point this idea wasn't implemented.
It was a brain storming idea, that had some merit, they did some more research on it and they finally decided to say no to the idea.
The best part is because it is patented that means other OS makers will have to buy the idea from Apple, so they probably won't go that route.
Why did they probably decided not to?
1. It would clutter the "Appearance of the OS". Apple will not even put an Intel Inside sicker on their Systems, to have someone putting ugly adds on the OS.
2. It would be used for headless servers. Ohh a free Unix OS, with Apple support that is easier to use then Linux (arguably). Well lets set it up for server stuff and let it run.
3. Week 2 after its official release the internet will be filled with tricks to disable them.
4. Apple already as a reputation of being expensive, having adds will just make it worse.
5. Increase piracy of the Add-Free version. (You get the add version you find features you really like... Next step is to pirate) vs. now is to stay with the Old OS and not really care what is new.
6. Who cares about Macs anyways by 2009 the iPhone and other iOS devices were being planned and implemented. Lets put effort into making the MacStore where you can get the OS upgrade without Media for $80 less.
7. If you have adds, where apple gets paid for you to use their OS, the Hackintosh use may rise, as people feel less guilty of hacking a PC to run OS X.
8. If your remind people that you can get an OS for free, they will try Linux.
9. Apple lucked out 2001-2010 (Windows XP Aging as an OS, Vista being junk, Linux community taking a hard shift to the left, alienating moderate users) In a world where Apple is the only OS Maker that isn't pissing off their customers, they really didn't want to shake the cage.
10. A general rise in Mac usage without it, and people buying upgrades.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
haha! That was a rhetorical question. There are many a commit in the kernel sources with my name, but, thanks for the thorough and gratuitous explanation ;^)
what a genius!
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
So many of us turn up our noses, pay for Internet access, and keep using systems that may be less powerful than Free-PC's offer (333 MHz, 4GB hard drive, and 32MB of memory).
Wow. Talk about a trip down memory lane...
no joke we did that pre dot crash free os free pc free internet all ad supported. . but then the net economy crashed ads became worthless and all the programs failed.
You overlooked the fact that it's useless for a gamer.... still.
"It'll run on that old 486 that your neighbor put next to his garbage can, and is powerful enough that a significant portion of the Internet depends on it."
Now you are stretching it. The latest versions will not run on a 486.
Can you get a version that does? certain, but I can get a MS OS that does as well. IT's not current, or usefull to 99.99% or the population.
OSX is design fro security as well. And not because some guy in a turtle neck said so, but because of it's underlying architecture.
Linux is great, but it doesn't really do what I need it to do.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Way back in in the first Internet boom of '98, a few outfits used to give away "free" Macs and PCs that put ads on the desktop in order to subsidize them.
www.chihuahuarescue.com- Help to end dog abuse, abandonment and cruelty
"my job here is done"
-- --
The parent was correct. They just didn't mention they did all of the above while riding a skateboard.
I only look human.
My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
Not a single mod point was given.
-- --
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The best way to ensure [save 15% or more, with Gecko Insurance] that never happens [Hi, I'm Mayhem. Avoid mayhem.] is to pay the upgrade [upgrade now to a premium account and get unlimited access free] fee and just be [just be yourself with interchangable mouse covers in 49 different wild colors] done with it. [Get the job done faster with MultiStep, the swiss army knife of folding ladders!]
I appreciate [Need to express your appreciation with flowers?] a little mental peace [Tie dye peace-symbol tee shirts, now 20% off!] [Excedrin, for those Excedrin moments.] and quiet. [Try Bose QuietComfort (tm) noice-canceling headphones, risk-free!]
BTW, Apple's OSes were free (as in beer) up until maybe Mac OS 7.5? You could buy a boxed version with discs and manuals too, but you could bring floppies in to a store and get a copy that way too. (Both for Mac & Apple II OSes.)
But as Devil's Advocate -- who pays for the development of that OS? People claim (often wrongly) that Apple hardware is too expensive.. So you want to make it EVEN MORE expensive by having the hardware subsidize the software?
Personally, I hate ads in most forms, but some -- e.g. most product placement in TV & movies, doesn't bother me. And the mini-ad in Words with Friends bugs me, but not enough to pay $2.99 (nor $.99, which it was near Christmas time.)
Oh, kind of like Android. Android is more an ad delivery and user profiling tool than an actual app platform. iPhone/Mac/iPad are getting there slowly but surely.
Organization? You must be joking..
...the IVillan was so evil, he parked in spots reserved for the handicapped and prayed on peoples vanities. Oh...you're still using the *white* ipod? Muhaha! >:^)
Take the average Windows user. Ponder how much he knows about his machine and how much he knows about ad-blocking software.
Now think of the average Apple user and extrapolate.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I somehow think this could lead to some clashing with those that pay for ads on those pages that get replaced. Should be interesting to see whether something like this holds up in courts.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I got one of those FreePCs. It was actually a decent computer for the time. Before a year was up the company went bankrupt or something and they sent information on how to remove the ads. I was a poor student at the time and never could have afforded a computer of that quality at the time.
Did you turn off your sarcasm-o-meter today?
indeed. What an asshole. It takes a control freak of immense intensity to pull this kind of shit from beyond the grave
You overlooked the fact that it's useless for a gamer.... still.
I'm just gonna leave this right here: http://www.engadget.com/2012/04/25/steam-for-linux/
Also, you can get pretty far on WINE.
That said, I agree, the industry needs to break Windows hold as the gaming monopoly. It does NOTHING to help gaming. Games for Windows Live is HATED by everybody who has to use it, Steam and fuck, even Origin are better. GFWL is directly worse than Xbox Live, and there's no excuse for that. Windows still barely even realizes you have games installed, there's a "games" section of the control panel now, but it only picks up some of your games, gives you a really bad benchmark score, and launches those games for you. Thats IT.
I'd like to see a special mode for games which allows you to run them fullscreen-windowed automatically. Default Windows behavior for fullscreen apps is terrible. You're going to force a context switch and a cache just because I alt+tab? Ugh. And it could go so much further than that, it could integrate services for developers to patch your games into the OS, it could launch a thinner version of the OS so that you can play your game on higher settings as long as you dedicated your machine to gaming temporarily, etc. etc. etc. etc.
Sorry, but Windows being the only machine you can play PC games on is a mistake, not a feature, and won't last. We just need the ball to start rolling, and you can bet your ass if Steam is on Linux, games will be on linux.
GCS/MU/P d- s:- a-- C++++$ UL++ P+ L++ E+ W++ N o K- w--- O M+ V- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5- X R++ tv+ b++ DI++ D++ G+ e++ h-
what does it meeeean?
Well, yeeesss, strictly speaking, you're right. But that's because Apple had a stranglehold on the ROMs - the OS disks were useless without it, so giving them away was a customer service / PR boon, not a revenue-killing nightmare.
That part was the official clone program...
IIRC, (and I'm hazy on this), System 7.6 was the first one that Apple actually charged for - and that co-incided with Apple killing off the official clones (which were only licensed for System 7 anyway).
What part of "a well regulated militia" do you not understand?
That was a rhetorical question.
That's OK, I'm pretty sure that was a rhetorical answer too ;}
And I must say, one of the most nicely and politely worded rhetorical answers I have seen in some time now!
by the standard which is routinely applied to Apple on slashdot. All anyone has ever done is combine concepts that already existed.
Google? OMG no, they just made a more polished Alta-Vista, which itself was based on turbogopher, which was based on the index in the back of most books, which were based on cave drawings, blah blah blah.
slashdot is so predictably delusional it's really starting to get boring.
Excuse me, I'm French, and I find this offending.
Nique cette merde !
Now *that's* French. And I'll excuse it for you.
Thank you for noticing.
You are welcome on my lawn.
If you thought that I didn't notice his sarcasm, then you need to look a little deeper. There's sarcasm, and then there's sarcasm. Some use it like a cudgel and some like a scalpel.
You are welcome on my lawn.
as other posters have said, this is just not true:
- I wasted 2+ years of my evenings playing WoW. on Linux.
- I played Skyrim, Oblivion. on Linux.
Those are/were some of the biggest titles out there, and they have always been playable.
OSX is also not more secure - it's can only be less secure since there is no way for you to assess the security, or fix the security yourself. Ultimately, more eyes means better security, period. If there is a difference in security, it's beneath the level that you as a non-security expert would be able to describe.
And yes, you can still run windows 95 on that 486. But you can't run the latest version of Windows on it. You can however run the latest version of most Linux Distributions on it (and there are even specialized versions of those latest distributions out there for those systems).
So again, you're repeating incorrect assumptions. Perpetuating the logical fallacy. Congratulations, you prefer the way of the dodo.
Sad are the days without moderator points.
Really? That's all? Let's see... 2000 lbs, about 150 lbs/person ... some thirteen people. In my view, when only thirteen people want to corral themselves in a walled garden, with or without ads, that's real progress.
Actually, their main competition DOES have ads built in.
Correction. Vendors reselling their competition's software put "ads" into it. Natively, there isn't much ads/crapware/bloatware in it.
On the other hand, does anybody have any statistics on how many "ad supported" Kindles sold versus full-price ones?
Bow before me, for I am root.
Let the arms race begin :-) If the OS shuts down because the adserver is unreachable, 2 weeks until the next tomato firmware comes with "fake adserver mode' that spoofs the server and serves up clear GIFs. (This oldie-but-goodie works great with a binary resource editor and crippleware that displays a watermark...) Cryptographic nuclear option? If history is any guide, there's a hack for that too.
Caveat Emptor is not a business model.
"This window was brought to you by Mr Muscle. Mr Muscle: for when your windows need to be extra shiny."
It must just be me, but the Apple users around me are routinely more knowledgable about computers than the average Windows users around me.
In fact, most Apple users around me are developers or otherwise professionals whose main tool is a computer, while most Windows users around me have had their XP box for the last decade and use it to occasionally browse the web and download a virus or two.
I know that I'm probably biased due to my work and people I meet through it, but man, do I hate the generalization that Windows users are somehow the better computer users.
Bitten Apples are still better than dirty Windows...
I mean that's what android is, an advertising supported OS.
I have often wondered why a thing like Apple is so successful - or indeed successful at all - and this only confirms my view.
I have tried using some of their products: the OSX, the iPhone, the iPad - and they constantly seem to work against what I try to achieve. This could be due to my immense stupidity, but then, how did I manage to become a very well paid SW engineer?
The only explanation I can think of (for Apple's success, that is) is that it works like X Factor: we all know it is utter crap, but for some reason people are attracted to it because it is 'cool'. Not much of an explanation, I know; hopefully somebody can offer a better one.
An Apple advocate criticising Linux for not being good as a gaming platform is...ironic.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Fuck that shit.
Couldn't you just block the ad server at the router/firewall level?
Would the OS fail to work if it could not download ads?
As we're talking about OS9 (according to TFS) this would have been before widespread always-on internet access, so I don't think they could have been thinking of disabling the OS if it couldn't download ads.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
t must just be me, but the Apple users around me are routinely more knowledgable about computers than the average Windows users around me. In fact, most Apple users around me are developers or otherwise professionals whose main tool is a computer, while most Windows users around me have had their XP box for the last decade and use it to occasionally browse the web and download a virus or two.
Similarly, everyone I know drives a Ferrari and only amateurs drive Fords or other makes. But then, I am a racing car driver for Ferrari.
Have a word with yourself.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Fuck that shit.
Grow up. The ad-supported version would have only been another option for users. More choice is a good thing.
I just shelled out a hundred bucks for a Windows 7 license several days ago. As I only use it for playing video games, I would have gladly downloaded an ad-supported copy if one was available. The less money I spend on the OS, the more money I have for new games.
> Google did not use their search engine patents as competitive weapons. Instead, they chose to make their money the old-fashioned way: By selling things that their customers find useful.
Google makes money by selling your eyes (via advertising) to corporations. Apple makes money by selling things that people want. Check the scoreboard, how much money has Google made from hardware or software sales--they aren't in the same league as Apple.
I didn't notice any ads on my OSX desktop today.
Who marked this troll? That seems a bit excessive and unnecessary. Actually, the post is almost helpful and talks up some of the boons of the Linux community.
Sometimes, interruptions to your train of [get Amtrack tickets at a discount, pre-order here] thought are just not worth [Increase your net-worth. Talk to a TruWealth financial adviser today.] the money saved. [Save money on expensive phone bills! Get MagicJack phone service for as little as $19.95 a year! ]
The best way to ensure [save 15% or more, with Gecko Insurance] that never happens [Hi, I'm Mayhem. Avoid mayhem.] is to pay the upgrade [upgrade now to a premium account and get unlimited access free] fee and just be [just be yourself with interchangable mouse covers in 49 different wild colors] done with it. [Get the job done faster with MultiStep, the swiss army knife of folding ladders!]
I appreciate [Need to express your appreciation with flowers?] a little mental peace [Tie dye peace-symbol tee shirts, now 20% off!] [Excedrin, for those Excedrin moments.] and quiet. [Try Bose QuietComfort (tm) noice-canceling headphones, risk-free!]
My last avisit to a MagicJack website had the rates bumped to $10/month
Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
while sucking down a chemtrail
The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
and some like a penis
The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
You make me yearn for my private butler Jeeves
The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
Can we have a poll on suggested words to use
The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.