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Ivy Bridge Running Hotter Than Intel's Last-gen CPU
crookedvulture writes "The launch of Intel's Ivy Bridge CPUs made headlines earlier this week, but the next-gen processor's story is still being told. When overclocked, Ivy Bridge runs as much as 20C hotter than its Sandy Bridge predecessor at the same speed, despite the fact that the two chips have comparable power consumption. There are several reasons for these toasty tendencies. The new 22-nm process used to fabricate the CPU produces a smaller die with less surface area to dissipate heat. Intel has changed the thermal interface material between the CPU die and its heat spreader. Ivy also requires a much bigger step up in voltage to hit the same speeds as Sandy Bridge."
... a processor without a on die gpu, if I'm going to have more heat I want more performance.
After switching all my lights to LED bulbs, its a bit cold in my office. A new, hotter CPU could be just what I need.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
It's clear in the article, but the headline here sort of implies that the chips run hotter in general, whereas this test is only saying the new chips run hotter when overclocked. From what I can find, when run at the rated voltages/speeds, Ivy Bridge CPUs run at about the same temperature as last gen's CPUs.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Ivy also requires a much bigger step up in voltage to hit the same speeds as Sandy Bridge.
I get the feeling that they have very weird notions about what constitutes CPU Speed...
Go back in time to the introduction of 32nm and you'll see stories about how the 32nm chips don't overclock as well as chips the mature 45 nm process.
Intel's 22nm process is currently tuned for the lower-clocks used in mobile devices where the early reviews are very favorable to IB. It will take some time for the process to mature and for us to see more overclocking headroom.
Even in its current state, Ivy bridge does overclock fine up to about 4.5Ghz. Where you see issues are at the very highest ends of the OC spectrum where the power density of the 160 mm^2 die becomes an issue compared to the larger 216 mm^2 die of Sandy Bridge. Ivy Bridge does use less power than Sandy... the problem is with sucking the heat out of an increasingly tiny area. Especially for overclockers who usually use discrete graphics and disable the GPU, the activated die area on Ivy Bridge is likely only about 100 - 120 mm^2, which is very hard to keep cool.
Remember a year ago Intel was bragging about their new 3d tri-gate process would be 50% more power efficient: http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/silicon-innovations/standards-22nm-3d-tri-gate-transistors-presentation.html.
Comparing the i7 3770K against the 2600K, which is clocked at the same frequency it's only 17% more power efficient: http://www.anandtech.com/show/5771/the-intel-ivy-bridge-core-i7-3770k-review/20
Also you have to bare in mind some of the power saving is due to the DDR controller power gating
Not all of us do overclocking. Subject is misleading.
>wouldn't have it been possible for the engineers to figure out some sort of solution
They did. The solution is "Don't overclock your processor".
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
So lemme see here...Intel's new CPU dies are now smaller (good), which makes them less dissipative of heat (bad), so they decide to use worse thermal paste stuff?
Seems legit.
You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
no colder, it uses even less than (almost halves electricity used/TDP)
only problem is it is not real I7 (LGA 2011 socket) but just renamed I5 (LGA 1155 socket)
Emphasis on sample
If the retail releases also have this issue, then its newsworthy
So, the "new" processor burns more electricity, runs hotter, and most reviews have it doing marginally better than Sandy Bridge...all for what will be a higher price. Never buy a new framework when it first comes out.
“Gov. Mitt Romney of Massachusetts and two of his sons helped rescue a New Jersey family from a sinking boat over the weekend, a New Hampshire official said today.
''The Romneys took two of the passengers and brought them back to shore,'' Sergeant Robertson said...
“Mr. Fehrnstrom, who spoke to Governor Romney on Sunday about the incident, said the governor's two sons hopped on a motorized water scooter, while the governor got on another. They went to the sinking boat, and Governor Romney brought people to shore while his sons stood by at the scene. The Romneys also saved the family's dog, he said... McKenzie, a Scotty, the family dog.”
The majority of people do not overclock their CPUs so this is not an issue for the majority.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
And I am guessing you eat other meat. Your point?
There's only so many tricks that Intel can pull off to keep the power dissipation down. Intelligent power gating, process improvements, optimized circuits, etc... and still, we have WAY more transistors on die that we can actually switch due to power constraints. Think about that for a second. Even ignoring the fact that 90% of the chip is very low activity cache, we cannot utilize all our transistors and get under 100 W/cm^2 (the limit of conventional fan + heatsink cooling). A lot of your chip is going to waste because of power constraints.
And it's just going to get worse. Imagine what the power density will be like when 3D monolithically stacked ICs go into serious production? Multiply your power density times the number of vertical layers!
There's only so much you can do when you're cooling your chip by essentially blowing on it. One of the big innovations is going to have to be improved cooling. Microfluidic channels, which were developed almost THIRTY YEARS ago, might be a good option.
Traditional scaling has been over for a couple generations now (ask any Intel process engineer). Power and process variation are what matter now. And both of them are very, very difficult problems to solve that will get much worse with each generation.
The CPU is 20C hotter, but does the upper limit it can reach safely is also 20C hotter or stay the same?
I too run a little hot when overclocked.
With Sandy Bridge Intel basically said it was normal and wanted to overclock the K series. I have a Corei5 3.3ghz and increased it to 4.4ghz with a single BIOS parameter change with no additional tweaking and no disadvantage at all. Paying for this CPU and not doing it would be stupid.
I think that something that people need to keep in mind is this chip is ~31% smaller. Even with that it's using the same amount of power. I'm not surprised that a byproduct of compressing an area like that is more heat. Also, the chip uses Turbo Boost 2.0. This is automatic overclocking.
Power consumption varies with the square of the voltage (p=v^2/r) while the power consumption varies linearly with the frequency, if it takes signicantly more voltage to over clock then it's no wonder the power usage is so high.
Ivy Bridge is smaller in area than Sandy Bridge. Assuming I got the right numbers from Wikipedia, 160 mm^2 vs 216. That's 74% the area for heat transfer.
Or "Overclock it less, since Sandy Bridge spoiled everyone."
My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells by the seashore.
You think that's bad?
He was born in Hawaii. Odds are, at some point, he has actually eaten Spam.
*shudder*
uses less power, and is comparable fast. That way, i can save literally hundreds of euro's each year. My PC is fast enough. I'm not even remotely interested in overclocking. All i want is a gaming-PC that uses only 25W power. Ty.
its actually a bit cooler, intel does not give a shit about thermal performance outside of its defined operating parameters, and I dont blame them
After switching all my lights to LED bulbs, its a bit cold in my office. A new, hotter CPU could be just what I need.
You're confusing temperature and heat. A candle burns hotter than a person, but a person puts out more heat (100W) than a candle (80W). Likewise, Ivy Bridge puts out less heat than Sandy Bridge, even though it's hotter.
(T>t && O(n)--) == sqrt(666)
Looking at the pictures in the Overclockers.com link, you'd probably get better thermal dissipation if had Intel left the heat spreader off, with nothing expect the protective overcoat on the back of the chip.
Actually, I bet modders are going to start cracking the IHS off for that very purpose, in order to directly contact their heatsinks.
When I last overclocked my cpu, a decade ago, programs started crashing. Why do they only mention overheating problems, can it be done reliably now?
Dog is tasty. I just can't vote for someone who puts pineapple on his pizza.
If you mod me down the terrorists will have won
Why, was he visiting Korea?
so let me get that right. The summary states that they have the same power consumption and a smaller area?
i am a physicist. If you have the same heat flow trough a smaller area then i expect that the higher thermal resistance causes a higher temperature difference.
\Delta T \lambda A t = P
where \Delta T is the temperature difference to ambience, \lambda the thermal conductivity A the are an t the thickness of whatever coupled you to outside, and P the power dissipated.
I am still looking for the mystery. The most interesting question is if the performance is higher.
Dog is tasty. I just can't vote for someone who puts pineapple on his pizza.
Practically nobody in Hawaii puts pineapple on pizza. Hardly anyone in Hawaii even cooks pineapple, we eat it fresh or at worst canned. I never even heard of "hawaiian pizza" until I moved to the mainland. Wikipedia says it was first created in Canada.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Dogs and man are the primary cursorial hunters on this planet, and we have formed a partnership. It is no surprise that Obama devours his partners, something no honorable man would do.
Lol. What a fabulous display of ignorance. You sound like those Taliban who said George Bush was a dishonorable man because he doesn't wear a beard.
Filipinos, Koreans, Vietnamese and Chinese are just a few of the cultures where eating dog is unremarkable. As for being a "partner" a lot of muslims consider dog to be a dirty unclean animal.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Practically nobody in Hawaii puts pineapple on pizza
I sure did when I lived there. So did other people. Called it pineapple and ham though, not 'hawaiian.' The Dominos Chicken Pestoza was good too, but I don't know if they serve it anymore over there.
And spam musubi is the best bra.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Did someone mention that Obama ate a dog?
It's hotter when overclocked. Overclockers love having to run pipes and submerge things. How are you going to justify hauling out the liquid nitrogen if it's running cool?
Meanwhile everyone else is happier that it runs cooler, takes less power, is faster, and even costs less than Sandy Bridge.
This is Win Win, people.
It's "brah." We don't call people boobslings.
You think that's bad? He was born in Hawaii. Odds are, at some point, he has actually eaten Sperm. *shudder*
FTFY.
Hitler hates pedophiles.
Depends on the CPU, but most (~90%) Sandy Bridge i5 CPU's will take 4GHz without any problem, and about 50% can hit 4.5GHz without breaking a sweat. This is for an i5 2500k, which comes with a stock clock speed of 3.2GHz. My 2500k is currently running at 4.7GHz and it doesn't have any stability problems at all, even when I run video encodes that keep the CPU at 100% occupancy 24/7... when I push it to 4.8GHz (change the multiplier from 46x to 47x, with system bus at 103MHz), it starts to crash. I suspect that if I had a better cooling setup (using a Cooler Master Hyper 212+ heatsink, which is air cooled and keeps the CPU max temperature around 65'C at 4.7GHz) I may be able to squeeze a few more clock cycles out of the processor, but it's not worth $200 for a water cooling setup.
Seriously. What kind of quantum chromodynamics calculations are you simply not getting done today?
I think these days technically ALL of us do overclocking thanks to Turbo Boost and similar such technologies which up the frequency of the processor when only some cores are loaded.
I never even heard of "hawaiian pizza" until I moved to the mainland. Wikipedia says it was first created in Canada.
It's our country's revenge for that stuff you guys call "Canadian Bacon".
It's "brah." We don't call people boobslings.
Oh I know. I would never mock Hawaiianspeak on purpose.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
I partially heat my home office with my Pentium 4.
Really. Sometimes I boot my old box just because the room is chilly.
"No fear. No envy. No meanness." Liam Clancy
Too bad I allowed 5 mod points to evaporate today.
This brings new meaning to the term "burning bridges". ;-)
Every place that serves tourists puts pineapple on everything. Hawaiian pizza is common, even if not among the locals.
Practically nobody in Hawaii puts pineapple on pizza
I sure did when I lived there. So did other people.
Why did the haole put pineapple on his pizza? Because he was a haole.
The majority of people do not run a Athlon XP without a heatsink. So bursting into flame is not an issue.
Aaaaand it was so delish.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
What's that you say, Obama is a muslim?
As for being a "partner" a lot of muslims consider dog to be a dirty unclean animal.
Yes, Muslims are hateful bigots. Your point?
Irony meter overload.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Incredible how many morons are willing to risk data integrity for a simple speed increase.
Perhaps I'll flip the fan around on the side of the case to blow outwards. Then I'll have the breeze.
I've been trying to fry that P4 for nearly a decade. But. It. Just. Won't. Die.
"No fear. No envy. No meanness." Liam Clancy
these are CPUs with unlocked multiplier, just as it was before the pentium 2 and Athlon era. only on the expensive models muiltiplier is unlocked though, and other forms of o/c have been severely limited. What does that mean? pretty much only the CPU clock moves, typicaly at default core voltage. No memory and no bus are overclocked : the biggest offenders against data integrity aren't involved in the O/C at all. so it feels pretty safe.