Dell Designing Developer Oriented Laptop

jones_supa writes "Barton George, director of marketing for Dell's Web vertical reveals information about 'Project Sputnik', a laptop tailored for developer needs in web companies. 'We want to find ways to make the developer experience as powerful and simple as possible. And what better way to do that than beginning with a laptop that is both highly mobile and extremely stylish, running the 12.04 LTS release of Ubuntu Linux,' George ponders. He also gives a quick list of packages that the default installation could include. The machine will base on the XPS13, assessing a couple of its main hardware deficiencies along the way." According to the article, this is a "6 month project to investigate an Ubuntu laptop. If successful, we have big plans for the effort." It's unclear how closely they are working with upstream, but there's mention of Canonical as a commercial partner so this may mean Dell is working to ensure some of their hardware Just Works (tm) with Ubuntu. The software side is so far just a customized install with developer tools preinstalled. Ars remains skeptical about Dell's strategy for GNU/Linux support, which may be warranted given their track record.

Comments

Resolution

[Nerdfest]

The one thing that they (Dell) and pretty much everyone else are missing is a decent screen resolution. 1366x768 and 1440x900 just don't cut it for development. They're barely useable for browsing.

Re:Resolution

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok, let's see 8 cores 3Ghz or better, 16GB ram dual 1920x1080 screens, 500GB of RAID-1 SSD storage and a 12-hour battery life. Weight under 20 lbs. Price - $3000. Can it be done?

Re:Resolution

[wonkey_monkey]

Maybe not on a 13" XPS, but my 15" 1920x1080 Latitude does me just fine.

Re:Resolution

[Harold Halloway]

Eh? I regularly browse on a 1024x768 netbook without difficulty. Seems to me that the web pages you are browsing don't scale too well.

Re:Resolution

[CastrTroy]

I agree with this. Also, most of the other important developer friendly things would be in the hardware, not the software. Many developers are likely to wipe the thing and start over from scratch anyway. Important things for developers are good screen resolution. Standard keyboard layout. this includes ensuring that function keys (F1-F12) always act as function keys, and also that pgup ins and the like are located in an easy to reach place Depending on the developer, you might be better off dropping the numeric pad so that you can fit the pgup/arrow keys in the correct arrangement. Also of importance is plenty of USB ports to hook up additional hardware without a hub, as well as outputs for a couple different kinds of monitors HDMI/DVI and possibly VGA. Developers don't care about what packages are included by default, because they can install whatever they want after the fact. The things they can't change later, like hardware, are the things to focus on.

Re:Resolution

[MyLongNickName]

There is a huge difference between reading a web page and developing.

Re:Resolution

[azalin]

Let's get through the list what I need from a development laptop: screen size, high resolution, good color representation and the option to hook up at least a secondary monitor.
Other than that? Speed? Mostly irrelevant though being quiet would be nice. Mobility? Must not be to big or to heavy to carry around in a normal messenger bag or backpack. Disk size and ram? Standard issue. OS? Whatever suits your fancy and provides the tools for the job. Style? Of course we like to have cool machines, but is it needed - No. Battery life? Somewhat but for serious work one needs a desk anyway.

Re:Resolution

[nedlohs]

Sure but the claim was: " They're barely useable for browsing".

Re:Resolution

[Anonymous Coward]

1024x600 here... browsing is not a problem. Eye strain is!

Re:Resolution

[azalin]

Oups forgot one: Non reflective screen surface, just in case your office has a window.

Re:Resolution

[Abalamahalamatandra]

Me as well. I just got a "new" laptop, a Latitude e6510, from the Dell Outlet. It has a 15" 1920x1080 screen and I'm very happy indeed. I would have bought a new e6520, but some idiot at Dell decided people want 15" laptops with a numeric keypad, which made it nearly two inches wider than the e6510 with the same screen size.

I think this system would be much more suited to developers than the XPS 13 - it's very rugged and not very heavy, not all THAT much bigger than the XPS, and has a modular bay that you can put a second hard drive in if you want.

Battery life is somewhat of a con, though - mine has a quad-core i7 and gets maybe 2.5 hours running Ubuntu 12.04 with the standard six-cell battery. But I run on power 95% of the time and it's a small price to pay for all this power, the thing is a speed demon to me after using my XPS M1330 for four years.

Re:Resolution

[19thNervousBreakdown]

The expression "If you call that living..." comes to mind.

Re:Resolution

[ranton]

Absolutely true. I cannot believe that Apple is the only company still making a 1200 vertical resolution screen. It's annoying having to spend $2700 on the only decent laptop that still exists.

Re:Resolution

[Nerdfest]

I'm of the opinion that the vertical space is quite lacking for browsing.

Re:Resolution

[serviscope_minor]

366x768 and 1440x900 just don't cut it for development.

Sure they do.

If you're on a 13" screen, then pushing much beyond 1440x900 starts to give awfully tiny text at the smallest decently readable font size. Of course I'd jump at the chance of such a panel, but I find 1920x1080 to be comfortable on a 17" laptop, and would probably be OK on a 15" one.

If you're constrained by screen space, get a good quality folding editor and a decent window manager which can switch quickly and efficiently between a lot of virtual screens.

Developing on a small screen is always going to be harder than on a desktop with lots of space, but pumping up the DPI isn't necessarily the solution.

That said...

If I had the option of paying a few hundred extra bucks to get a 1920x1080 (since this seems to be the standard now) panel on a 13" or even 11" laptop, of course I'd jump at the chance!

Re:Resolution

[mepperpint]

Agreed! The display is very important. I do not understand why the other commenters seems to be asking for a 1920x1080 display. This wide screen is good for watching movies, but crap for development work. I need more verticle screen real estate so that I can see a larger block of code at once. Verticle space is far more valuable than horizontal. I would gladly take a 1600x1200 display over a 1920x1080. If they really want to be innovative, they'll put a 1920x1200 display on the laptop along with a feature where it can be rotated vertical to give me 1200x1920. That's what I do on my desktop and it works great. Duplicate it on my laptop and I'll finally be able to use it for work purposes.

Re:Resolution

[smittyoneeach]

I'm in an Emacs terminal session with 80 columns and 30 lines.
When I'm feeling foppish, I turn on syntax highlighting.
It's about keeping the pimp hand strong, man.

Re:Resolution

[ThePhilips]

In particular for development, I personally find the 4:3 screens better than the widescreen ones. And that is one of mine biggest complains with the modern laptops as development goes. I want to see more lines of the source code on the screen. In the end one buys 24" external display - sufficiently tall to fit more lines of code - only to waste 20-30% of the screen space on the sides.

They should introduce something like "tall screen." And if keyboard is OK, I might even consider buying it.

Re:Resolution

[ByOhTek]

I wouldn't say that's the only thing, but I remember having laptops with better than 900 vertical resolution, and I'd love to see that again.

Aside from that
* Options for both low power (energy) and high power (performance) processors - obviously you won't get either at the same time, but an option for whichever would fit your needs best, would be nice.
* Options for either a simple-low-power-integrated GPU, or a high performance (ATI/nVidia) card. Many developers won't need the latter, many will.
* Space for lots of memory (usually not an issue these days)
* Space for at least two drives (useful for performance, data safety, etc.)
* Lots of battery life - maybe a dual battery system. Done force lightest-weight-possible on everyone - some of us only need portable, not mobile, computing, and see an 8-12lb notebook as only mildly annoying, well worth the extra battery life that can be put into that weight.

I guess it comes down to - the most important thing for notebooks, is flexibility in what your models offer - there's a wide variety of dev work to be done out there.

Re:Resolution

[hobarrera]

Honestly, I can't tell the diference between those resolutions on such a tiny screen (suposing DPI is properly configure so that font size remains constant). I can't really tell if graphics are smoother or not.
The same would not hold true on a >26" screen, but on a 13" screen, I guess most people don't have such a good eyesight.

Re:Resolution

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a Latitude E6510 with a 1920x1080 screen.... what's the issue? Do they not say they will offer this screen with the new "developer" laptops?

Re:Resolution

[KiloByte]

Resolution isn't a problem as any decent browser can seamlessly scale stuff. It's mostly about screen proportions, and you just happen to have the best (barely) available one for about any kind of work other than watching cinema movies. I'd take a 4x3 (or 3x4!) screen of a shitty resolution over something 16x10 or worse.

Certain extensions, and a good deal of programs other than browsers fail to obey size scaling settings, though, so resolution is still nice to have (besides less eyestrain). It's almost always about vertical resolution though, again.

Re:Resolution

[Anonymous Coward]

What does resolution have to do with font size? The new iPad has a 9" screen at 2048x1536, nobody complains that it's hard to read. The fact that we don't have panels like this in laptops is shameful.

Re:Resolution

[rthille]

As a developer, I'd prefer 1080x1920 myself.

Re:Resolution

[mrops]

I would like to see a xeon based laptop to be honest. and give me cores, there is no such thing as too many cores when compiling code. i would love to cut my build time from 20 min to 2 min if possible.

Re:Resolution

[Anonymous Coward]

Absolutely! The two things that would make a great development laptop in my opinion are a 15"+ 16x10 (resolution less important than aspect ratio) screen and a standard keyboard layout with arrow and home/end group instead of a numpad. The fact that nobody seems to be able to supply that should be embarrassing.

Re:Resolution

[tlhIngan]

Absolutely true. I cannot believe that Apple is the only company still making a 1200 vertical resolution screen. It's annoying having to spend $2700 on the only decent laptop that still exists.

I'm pretty sure Dell sells laptops that do 1920x1200 as well, it may not be as a standard feature like Apple, but definitely available as an option.

Anyhow, there must be some way to cobble something together with say, an iPad. iPad runs an app that just turns it into a screen (2048x1536), while the keyboard part has the standard PC bits.

Re:Resolution

[pmontra]

6 years ago HP was able to make the nc8430. It weighted 2.7 kg (6 lbs?) had 2 GB RAM (expandable to 4), 80 GB disk (I replaced it with a 500 GB one two years ago), 1600x1050 15", 2 cores 2 GHz (the T7200), 3 hours battery life for about 1200-1300 Euro. After six years a 4 cores processor (I'm not up to date with the GHz race), 4 GB RAM, 500 GB disk, HD resolution, 3-4 hours of battery life for the same price and a little less weight (not that I care) should be fair.

My biggest complaint with modern laptops is that they have either a tiny screen (reduced height) or they are so large you could mistake them for skateboards if it were not for the number pad at the right end ;-)

Re:Resolution

[pmontra]

I try to rephrase: 13" just don't cut it for development no matter what editor you are using. I sometimes have to develop on a 9" netbook but it's only for emergencies.

Re:Resolution

[serviscope_minor]

What does resolution have to do with font size?

It affects the smallest legible font size. More resolution equals smaller legible font. For developing, you want as much space as you can use. Once the smallest legible font drops below the minimum readable size, erxtra screen resolution won't give you more screen space. So having super high res panels won't make a machine better for developing.

It will make things smoother and nicer looking, which is why I would like a high res panel, but the difference for developing is suitably nonexistent that I won't pay the eye watering prices currently required to get a 1080p panel on a small laptop.

But yes, I am hoping that the trend of everyone followinf Apple will finally make high res panels common---something which quite a lot of the /. community has been wanting for years.

Re:Resolution

[nine-times]

Also, most of the other important developer friendly things would be in the hardware, not the software. Many developers are likely to wipe the thing and start over from scratch anyway.

Still, I think the idea of having the computer ship with Linux is important. Even if you want to wipe the computer and start over, the fact that it shipped with Linux means that Dell is truly supporting Linux. That means that they're going to have to choose Linux-friendly hardware, and have stable/optimized drivers for all the hardware they're using.

There are also probably sensible choices that they can make for packages for developers, depending on what kind of developers they're targeting. For example, if you're a serious developer, there's a good chance you're going to want some kind of compiler. Picking a particular set of packages may not make all developers happy, but you could possibly start with a normal set of "lowest common denominator" packages and save the user a little bit of setup time.

Aside from that, the summary mentions that this is targeted for developers for "web companies". If you're talking about "web developers", I could definitely see them selecting a set of packages that an HTML/PHP monkey would be happy with and not want to wipe and start from scratch.

Re:Resolution

[serviscope_minor]

You'd need that drop in build time, since that's about how long your battery would last.

Re:Resolution

[jo_ham]

Absolutely true. I cannot believe that Apple is the only company still making a 1200 vertical resolution screen. It's annoying having to spend $2700 on the only decent laptop that still exists.

I'm pretty sure Dell sells laptops that do 1920x1200 as well, it may not be as a standard feature like Apple, but definitely available as an option.

Anyhow, there must be some way to cobble something together with say, an iPad. iPad runs an app that just turns it into a screen (2048x1536), while the keyboard part has the standard PC bits.

That already sort of exists - there are apps that are designed specifically to make your iPad act as a second screen for a computer. There's an update in the works at the moment given the release of the new iPad to support high-dpi settings. I don't think there's anything stopping you running it on a headless machine, but then you run into portability issues.

Re:Resolution

[Anonymous Coward]

I use 1280x800 for development and have no problems. Two years ago I had a giant monitor at my internship and found that, while nice, it just wasn't super crucial to my workflow. They key is using a decent tiling window manager, the idea that windows can overlap is extremely wasteful of screen real estate.

Re:Resolution

[Cajun Hell]

Once you start picking nits like that, you may as well open up the whole idea that all laptops will always relatively suck for development. Even the largest or best laptops are going to be downright awful in terms of both its screen and keyboard(!), compared to even a mediocre desktop.

Thing is, that desktop isn't portable, even if it's otherwise better in countless ways. (I'm surprised your going after its smaller screen, rather than the fact that every laptop in history has a shitty keyboard, but hey, whatever. We all have our own peeves.)

So the small or lower-res screen is all just part of the tradeoff. I don't particularly like the idea of 1366x768 but I don't know where you get the idea that it doesn't "cut it." That's especially true if you're mostly just testing your output in a web browser, since it doesn't seem like you can count on your users having stuff that large anyway.

One thing Ars is spot-on with, though, is that it sounds like this machine's drivers aren't in the mainline, and that's a liability. Having drivers exist is a good start, sure, but the year 1996 was a time for good starts. Dell, in 2012 you're deploying hardware without sending it to the kernel guys a few month in advance? Catch up.

Re:Resolution

[mhajicek]

And for most anything else other than watching movies. Why do all new screens need to be wide format?

Re:Resolution

[serviscope_minor]

In the end one buys 24" external display - sufficiently tall to fit more lines of code - only to waste 20-30% of the screen space on the sides.

I find on a 1080p screen (of course I would prefer 1200), I can comfortably fit three editor colums side by side, each of which is about 100 columns wide. That doesn't waste any space at all, and is very comfortable to work with.

Re:Resolution

[Anonymous Coward]

16:9 tends to work better for me, as I often have VIM open two files side-by-side in a vsplit. But it's probably a poor man's second monitor...

Re:Resolution

[w_dragon]

Personally I want a laptop with the ability to drop in 2 monitors. When I'm at my desk having side-by-side monitors is much nicer than the laptop screen.

Re:Resolution

[gambino21]

As a developer, I'd prefer 1080x1920 myself.

Just turn your laptop on it's side.

Re:Resolution

[akeeneye]

The vertical resoultion is a big issue for this developer too. I'm used to 1920x1200 on my 24" desktop display. My old Inspiron 6400 with its WSXGA+ (1680x1050) was usable, but barely so, for exteneded serious hacking sessions. When I somehow mashed the screen and damaged it recently, I started looking for a replacement and there were very few 1920x1200 laptops to be found anywhere. I don't know why, because the panels are readily available it seems. I got a new 1920x1200 panel off fleaBay and it turned out, happily, to be a drop-in replacement for the old.

Re:Resolution

[ColdWetDog]

Edge case, not worth worrying about ...

Re:Resolution

[Anonymous Coward]

If its a dev oriented laptop, id love to see them play with the form factor. What if the just turned the scree on edge so you had 768x1366, for example? The laptop would open sideways compared to current laptop formats. Give it the trackright keyboard from ibm to keep a full sized typing surface. Etc....

Re:Resolution

[Tyler Eaves]

So, buy a Mac Book Pro?

Quad Core i7
500GB HD
4GB RAM
1680x1050 screen

$1850 = 1420EUR

Re:Resolution

[synaptik]

wide screen is good for watching movies, but crap for development work.

I'm going to go out on a limb here, and guess that you are one of those devs who insist that everyone keep their code less than 80 columns?

Re:Resolution

[s73v3r]

Options for either a simple-low-power-integrated GPU, or a high performance (ATI/nVidia) card. Many developers won't need the latter, many will.

I like the trend of having both, and switching back and forth depending on what's actually being done at the moment. My laptop does this, and even though I generally lock it to the integrated graphics, it's very nice when I need the dedicated ones.

Re:Resolution

[Tough Love]

Speed? Mostly irrelevant though being quiet would be nice.

I take it you don't compile much?

Re:Resolution

[ThePhilips]

I find on a 1080p screen (of course I would prefer 1200), I can comfortably fit three editor colums side by side, each of which is about 100 columns wide.

I tried two columns. No, I do not like it: I prefer to have only one editor window open (per virtual screen). If I need two files side by side, horizontal split works for me better, since then I do not have problems with the long lines.

Now that I mentioned side-by-side, the only thing which to me actually gained usability from wide screen is the side-by-side diff. No need to resort to tiny font sizes anymore.

That doesn't waste any space at all, and is very comfortable to work with.

I can't imagine that to be ever comfortable to me.

You must use (very) small font size. To me Courrier New or Andale Mono @14pt is the "normal" working font size. Anything less makes my eyes ache during prolonged coding sessions.

Re:Resolution

[rhsanborn]

The conspiracy theorist in me would say because they pay for less screen area with the same marketing number. A 15 inch widescreen having less area than a 4:3 style display. More likely is that widescreen LCDs are so much cheaper because they make them for TVs and other media uses.

Re:Resolution

[Kielistic]

Wide screen doesn't mean it isn't high. You say 1920x1080 is unsuitable for development and what you propose to make it acceptable is add 120 pixels more. So like 3 lines of text? Technically better but not nearly as big of a jump as from 768 to 1080.

Re:Resolution

[Anonymous Coward]

Check out the Samsung SyncMaster 2243. It's a 16:10 widescreen monitor, but hinges on it's base to allow you to rotate the screen into portrait orientation. "Tall Screen" has indeed been nice for coding.

Re:Resolution

[MobyDisk]

Agreed.

People often give me odd looks when I open my 17" Macbook Pro and boot to Windows, there is a reason it was rated "Best Windows laptop" a few years ago. It is usually high-end, lightweight, with a 1920x1200 display. The manufacturer supports OS X and Windows on it. Last time I looked I did not see a comparable offering from Dell, even at the same price.

My only complaint is that it isn't quite good enough for gaming.

Re:Resolution

[rhsanborn]

Dell sells higher resolution screens on their E series laptops. It's an option though.

Re:Resolution

[Rinikusu]

If you still want an external solution, pick up one of the rotating LCD displays out there that go from landscape to portrait mode to solve this. It would be very interesting to see a laptop with a "portrait" layout, as well (768x1366, for example). The old IBM trackright technology could come in handy to keep keyboard sizes normal.

Re:Resolution

[Nerdfest]

Here in Canada, and I would assume the US as well, even the bottom end 15" (at 1440x900) starts at $1800. The 17" does have that resolution, but starts at $2500 and goes up from there. I actually did consider getting an Apple notebook, as I love the hardware, but the price makes it prohibitive, and the corporate behaviour ruled it out completely.

Re:Resolution

[Billly Gates]

You have to consider cost.

Not to you, but to everyone else. There is a reason all the laptop manufacturers downgraded to 1366 x 768. CHEAP!!

Dell does not have the economies of scale required to make a decent screen in a laptop just for you. HP, Toshiba, and others love cheap and use the same parts etc. By using all the same parts they get even cheaper for everyone and is not integrated into the supply chain.

Using what 95% of people use is what you have to deal with. Most screen resolutions are still 1024 x 768 with 1366 x 768 just starting to approach it last time I checked at g.statcounter.com. So the web is highly optimized for those low settings as people hate upgrading monitors.

Re:Resolution

[Tyler Eaves]

You can upgrade to 1680x1050 on the 15", $50 for a glossy, $150 for matte

Re:Resolution

[anonymousNR]

I dont know , I am given a Mac book Pro 17" with resolution 1920x1200. but most of my windows are resized to 1344x840, may be something wrong with my eyes but if I maximize windows I cant even the stuff beyond 1344x840,it feels like watching a tennis game.

Re:Resolution

[Anonymous Coward]

Dev office with a window? Why isn't that marked as Funny?

Re:Resolution

[Sprinkels]

Works with every laptop.

Re:Resolution

[Anonymous Coward]

You'd need that drop in build time, since that's about how long your battery would last.

Which is precisely why I'm waiting for a multi-core ARM laptop.

Re:Resolution

[Anonymous Coward]

One of my screens is a wide screen but in a vertical layout.

Re:Resolution

[allo]

1050 pixels in height is too little.

Re:Resolution

[serviscope_minor]

I tried two columns. No, I do not like it: I prefer to have only one editor window open (per virtual screen). If I need two files side by side, horizontal split works for me better, since then I do not have problems with the long lines.

Well, I'm not much a fan of long lines. I'm not strictly limited to 80 columns, but it's very rare for them to go over 100 chars. The side by side diff is good, but mostly I can just have different parts of the file visible side by side.

I also like working with multiple monitors, which is very much a side-by-side thing. I find vertical splitting to just be a smaller scale version of that.

You must use (very) small font size. To me Courrier New or Andale Mono @14pt is the "normal" working font size. Anything less makes my eyes ache during prolonged coding sessions.

I use "fixed", whatever that is. It's the old fashioned X11 default and its the smallest bitmap font that looks OK. Firefox has a marginally larger anti-aliased font, but I prefer "fixed" for coding.

Re:Resolution

[PCM2]

I'm of the opinion that the vertical space is quite lacking for browsing.

I agree, it's the vertical space that's the problem. I use a couple of Web applications that aren't really all that complicated, but that have forms with one or two long drop-down selection boxes that can be really difficult to navigate on the short screen.

Then again, hitting F11 to hide the browser chrome helps...

Re:Resolution

[ranton]

Nope, the E6520 tops out at 1080 vertical, just like every other single laptop on the market other than the Macbook Pro. Kind of sad since my very first laptop (a Dell) had 1600x1200 resolution back in 2002.

Re:Resolution

[kiite]

There is a huge difference between reading a web page and developing.

Is there? I read web pages constantly while developing. Much downloadable API documentation even comes in HTML format.

Re:Resolution

[ranton]

You say 1920x1080 is unsuitable for development and what you propose to make it acceptable is add 120 pixels more. So like 3 lines of text?

Each line of text in your editor takes 40 pixels?

Re:Resolution

[AliasMarlowe]

I'm pretty sure Dell sells laptops that do 1920x1200 as well, it may not be as a standard feature like Apple, but definitely available as an option.

This was true, until a few months ago. There were some business only models with 1920x1200 screens. They were not available to personal or SOHO customers. Then they were discontinued, and the highest resolution Dell sells now is 1920x1080, even for business customers.

Re:Resolution

[Anonymous Coward]

You are forgetting the Apple Tax. A 1850 USD Mac Book Pro will cost at least 1849 EUR.

Re:Resolution

[Anonymous Coward]

They make quad-core i7 laptops, which are basically Xeons (you just can't have two of them). And I'm sure somewhere, there's some company making dual CPU laptops.

Re:Resolution

[Anonymous Coward]

"vertical" for bob's sake.

Re:Resolution

[x1r8a3k]

We used to have a solution to that-- the docking station. What happened to them?

Re:Resolution

[Patch86]

How the hell is that insightful? I still use 1280x1024 as standard (you insensitive clod). In what way is that "barely usable for browsing"? Games are the only place where I notice a difference, as any game designed with higher resolutions in mind can make individual elements (icons, characters etc.) overly large.

Re:Resolution

[Anonymous Coward]

Get a 24" wide screen monitor, rotate it 90 degrees and viola! you have many many lines of code.

Re:Resolution

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd look beyond dell, Asus/MSI/Acer all make decent laptops. But if you want something decent for gaming it seems you end up with a monster this guy
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834152304
Has a crazy good video card but at 8.6lbs at 2 inches thick...

Re:Resolution

[jalefkowit]

Because it's simpler and cheaper for the small number of factories that actually make the displays that end up in everybody's devices to make them all 16:9 than it is for them to make some 16:9 and others 16:10.

Re:Resolution

[pLnCrZy]

there must be some way to cobble something together with say, an iPad. iPad runs an app that just turns it into a screen (2048x1536), while the keyboard part has the standard PC bits.

Something like this?

I'm not sold on the idea that 2048x1536 on a 9.7" screen is going to solve any real world lack-of-screen-real-estate-for-developing problems, unless you have magic eyesight, though.

Resolution is great, but there's a limit to where it is useful.

Re:Resolution

[pLnCrZy]

... or perhaps (as I reread your post) you meant just using the iPad as simply a dumb monitor, in which case I misinterpreted originally.

In that case, I would simply offer an emphatic "why?" Why limit yourself to a 9.7" display area (regardless of the marketing uberjuice of pixel density!)? I see no real functional benefit to a 9.7" screen @ 2048x1536 over a 13" screen @ 1440x900, and with the 13" notebook the aforementioned requirements are met - the screen is just a screen and all the important bits are inside the keyboard. Hey, for convenience, they're even hinged together for easy carrying!

Re:Resolution

[Anonymous Coward]

$1850 = 1420EUR

I think you mean $1850 = 1950 EUR. Sad but true =(

Re:Resolution

[Darinbob]

Plug in an external monitor. The reason for a laptop would typically be for those times away from the desk, which for a developer should not consume most of the day (as opposed to management). Also "stylish" in the article implies to me that it's not for developers.

For me I want another laptop again that has a real serial port instead of some FTDI adapter, a second ethernet port. Actually forget that, I'd be satisfied if someone just made one with a decent docking station instead of "port expander".

Re:Resolution

[Anonymous Coward]

I've never tried running vi at higher resolutions!

Re:Resolution

[ThePhilips]

I have old 20" which could be rotated. Yet. Widescreen monitors in vertical orientation are often not very stable and/or are heavy enough rock the table. At home my table isn't stable enough to support that and starts swaying when I type. In office I have better table, but the monitor there doesn't have VESA(?) mount. (And Iiyama (appear to be crappiest cheapest office 24"s our purchase could find) doesn't sell proper rotating stands for the line of monitors.)

Anyway, this is off-topic: I was complaining about laptops. I know my options with desktops and had chance to explore most of them. But. But one can NOT rotate laptop's screen.

Re:Resolution

[Dog-Cow]

I've been using a 13" Macbook since 2005. I've been using it since 2008 (first release of the iPhoneOS SDK) to do iPhoneOS (now iOS) development. I love larger screens, but I find my Macbook perfectly usable.

Re:Resolution

[Anonymous Coward]

Not to nit pick. But the prices in Euro are about the same as in Dollar, just with a different symbol.

http://store.apple.com/de

The MacBook Pro you mention is 1749 Euro and $1799 in the US. Its a crime that they screw those of us living in Europe!

Re:Resolution

[frisket]

Not just the resolution: it needs to be a 4:3 aspect ratio. Document developers need a lot of vertical pixels, and those pixels need to be big enough that a full page fits readably on the screen.

Re:Resolution

[shutdown -p now]

Better yet, buy a W model Thinkpad - these ones can be had in 1920x1080, which, for a 15" screen, is plenty. Price is about the same, too.

Re:Resolution

[shutdown -p now]

The best use of that 20-30% of screen space is docking toolwindows in your IDE-of-choice. Filesystem (tree) browser is one that's virtually always handy to have about. Symbol search is another useful one. In Qt Creator, you can also put the documentation viewer there, and see docs for the symbol under cursor side-by-side with your code.

Re:Resolution

[Kielistic]

Roughly 20 more accurately. So approximately 6 lines, maybe 7; still nothing to write home about. And still doesn't negate the fact that aspect ratio has no effect on pixel height and 312 is larger than 120.

Re:Resolution

[jonadab]

Indeed. The practical minimum screen resolution for development is at least 1600x1200 on the primary display, with the ability to plug in at least one additional monitor (of similar size) when you're at your desk.

Also, a full-sized keyboard with decent key switches (ideally, the kind that provide actual tactile feedback) is essential.

The quality of the pointing device matters a lot less, because in practice these days everyone's going to plug in a USB pointing device anyway (unless you're using the laptop while rock climbing or riding a unicycle or something), so as long as the built-in pointing device doesn't get in the way of the keyboard I guess it doesn't matter much.

The ability to run additional operating system setups in a virtual machine would be kind of nice, so you can test on any platform you're supposed to support.

Other than that, I can install whatever software I need.

Re:Resolution

[Anonymous Coward]

This thread is a revelation to me. Thought I was alone in my preference for UXGA. If Dell want to get me excited, build a modern replica of the Thinkpad T42p.
Price is not an object. I can take care of the OS myself.

Re:Resolution

[Anonymous Coward]

Resolution is a must but what about a backlit keyboard? I do a lot of work at night and I can't stress enough how useful a backlit keyboard is.

Re:Resolution

[Stompehh]

I have a 24" Dell (1920x1200), which has the rotation built into the stand it's supplied with. Certainly no problem with stability here, even on a crappy IKEA table! The base has a decent weight and footprint which probably helps, and I seem to remember from putting it together that the base weighed more than the monitor itself.

Re:Resolution

[Anonymous Coward]

Bad desktop environment, but I'm sure i could install something else on that hw. Do they reimburse me the unused osx copy?

Re:Resolution

[steelfood]

In general, for people actually doing real work on their computers instead of browsing the web or watching TV or movies, the lower the aspect ratio and the higher the dot pitch, the better. Actually, browsing the web benefits with a lower aspect ratio too, so it's really only watching TV and movies where the high aspect ratio screens are relevant.

It has already been mentioned below, but bears mentioning again that the keyboard mechanics and the key layout are fairly important for developers too. Chiclet keyboards absolutely suck for heavy touch typing. Having a backlight on the keyboard is useful.

Developers are extremely text I/O heavy, unlike regular users who tend to be more output-oriented. For a developer, there is both a need to be able to input text efficiently and effectively, and process text output quickly and precisely.

On the other hand, things that are not as important to developers are refresh rates, color accuracy, and viewing angles. Optical drives, card readers, these can all be replaced by an extra USB port. Having the fastest CPU also is not a must, though it's a bonus. Size is also not nearly as important, though too big is not good, and too small is probably a bit difficult to achieve cost-effectively. But screen size is a non-factor if the dot pitch is small enough.

Re:Resolution

[captjc]

In college, a friend of mine used to use a tablet with a docking station (a real tablet, not an iPad or knockoff, but an Intel processor running Windows) The docking station allowed it to be used either horizontal or vertical and he used a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse. The best part was that he could take it and hand-write notes and stuff in while not coding.

Then again, I don't know about your coding style (assuming you code), but I like to write out pages of copious notes and diagrams before I even write a single line, so I was kind of jealous.

Re:Resolution

[LDAPMAN]

The 17" MacBook Pro will drive two 27" Thunderbolt monitors at 2560x1440 while still using the internal display. It's pretty amazing.

Re:Resolution

[funny_smell]

I'm pretty sure Dell sells laptops that do 1920x1200 as well, it may not be as a standard feature like Apple, but definitely available as an option.

Currently you are pretty wrong, then. I still have a D830 with 1920x1200 in a 15.4" LCD, and it is awesome. I am not replacing it until something equivalent becomes available.

Now the best you can find is a too-wide-for-plane (15.6") 1920x1080. This resolution would still be fine, though, if in a little smaller screen.

Re:Resolution

[Anonymous Coward]

I think what happened with docking stations is that eventually everyone realized that for the price of a docking station, you could buy a whole desktop computer which happens to kick your laptop's ass.

Re:Resolution

[rtb61]

Looking at this different article on the same story http://www.tgdaily.com/software-features/63252-dell-touts-linux-laptop-for-android-js-devs, it seems more about Dell becoming Android friendly. Also targeted at Linux, Android, Ruby and JavaScript developers.

So Dells 'Project Sputnik' looks like another exploratory plunge into Linux specifically with an sharp eye out for Android.

So is this another solid indication that Android is going to be making a run at the desktop. A very subtle grab for developers and as they use the devices they will inadvertently tweak them for regular users, create that whole OS ecosphere, that Dell is obviously working to be a part of.

Every time Linux has gotten to this stage M$ has crippled it by dramatically reducing prices and, strong arming suppliers. Of course Linux now has the server market and Android has the mobile market, all that's left is the gap in-between, the desktop, 'CRUNCH'.

Re:Resolution

[chromeronin]

And the next thing is screen real eastate on multiple big monitors, a comfy seating position, proper keyboard and a great mouse, none of these available on a laptop. For my code cutting, Mac mini server with SSD harddrive, 16Gb RAM, 2x24" displays. I've got VMs for windows and Linux I can fire up when needed. My windows VM is actually an image of the shitty dell pc they gave me to start with so i still get the office supplied corporate apps. I bought the Mac with my first overtime paycheck. For mobility, iPad and a bluetooth keyboard. This is just for mail, corporate intranet access and taking notes

Re:Resolution

[Craig Ringer]

While I'm a huge fan of portrait work and use a 1200x1920 portrait 24" display at home, I'll still take 1920x1200 over 1366x768 any day, and that's the choice I currently have.

Alas, Dell's Latitude models are one of the few laptops that have non-crap resolutions and decent touchpads instead of that horrible Alps crap everyone's using now. Pity Dell are marginally more evil than the other vendors at the moment (see, eg, the Optiplex affair).

Re:Resolution

[hxnwix]

I find that
320x200 is
more than
adequate
for all my
modern
internet
purposes!!

Re:Resolution

[Anonymous Coward]

And the next thing is screen real eastate on multiple big monitors, a comfy seating position, proper keyboard and a great mouse, none of these available on a laptop.
For my code cutting, Mac mini server with SSD harddrive, 16Gb RAM, 2x24" displays. I've got VMs for windows and Linux I can fire up when needed. My windows VM is actually an image of the shitty dell pc they gave me to start with so i still get the office supplied corporate apps. I bought the Mac with my first overtime paycheck.
For mobility, iPad and a bluetooth keyboard. This is just for mail, corporate intranet access and taking notes

Cool story, bro.

Re:Resolution

[ADRA]

Um, how about an XPS 15? I bought my pre-sandbridge fully loaded last Feb 2011

Core I7
8GB ram
500MB (non-sata)
2GB unshared discrete Nvidia video (dual external tuners) -- 1980x1080 native panel screen (gloss, but oh well)
Price: $1600cad Price now is probably closer to $1000
Running Fedora 15/16 (17 soon) and besides a small niggle with the video (doesn't boot two external heads, so I need to turn one of them on when I'm in X)

I've since upgraded to a 160 SATA, but the rest is great.

The thing works very well, and is quite comparable to my co-worker's $3000 (new) sandybridge enabled Macbook Pro.

Re:Resolution

[ADRA]

Really, almost all of those pre-requisites are mitigated with a system with a good dock and a healthy set of peripherals. If I want a portable laptop (not really much a concern for most developers who work in a cube 99% of the time) I'd at least like a dock so that I can easily leave the crap behind. My big MUST in a computer is at least decent dual monitor support and enough RAM / horsepower so that I don't feel bogged down doing day to day work.

Re:Resolution

[RedWizzard]

The conspiracy theorist in me would say because they pay for less screen area with the same marketing number. A 15 inch widescreen having less area than a 4:3 style display. More likely is that widescreen LCDs are so much cheaper because they make them for TVs and other media uses.

I don't think the market for 15-17" LCD TVs is that big. So that's not the reason. It's just that most consumers want HD because they naively think that's the gold standard. And HD means widescreen and shitty resolutions. But widescreen doesn't bother me so much for laptops, it's the lack of choice for desktops that pisses me off. High resolution 4:3 monitors are still around, but far fewer than their used to be and they're not cheap.

Re:Resolution

[musicmaker]

Blame your crappy tools not the laptop. Plenty of folks around here got development done on an 80x25 terminal. Why do you think it's called screen? Heck, I run a full IDE on my MacBook Air, 13 inches of supreme development awesomeness. If browsing is "barely usable", how come the vast majority of the web is at that resolution or lower (http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_resolution_higher.asp shows around 67% of web users are 1440x900 or below).

You statement is clearly so full of holes and elitist hubris, I think the score must be mostly from amusement, or maybe from other chest-thumpers.

Re:Resolution

[Anonymous Coward]

Your are so cute thinking Apple converts its US $ prices to euros following any logic or the echange rates...

  If it costs 1850 $ in the US, it will cost 1850 euros in europe.

  As an example : cheapest MBP 15 inches is $1799 on the US Apple website and 1750 euros on the french Apple store.

Re:Resolution

[ByOhTek]

It's nice, but if you don't need the high power, why bother?

Also, my notebook doesn't seem to be switching like it should :-(

Re:Resolution

[cthulhu11]

Standard keyboard layout? I gave up on that years ago. IBM fscked it all up in the mid 1980's when they swapped the capslock and control keys on the RT's keyboard, and it's been downhill from there.

Re:Resolution

[cthulhu11]

Agreed. If one needs more oomph than that, the answer is to either get a desktop, or become friends with SSH.

Re:Resolution

[DaVince21]

I have approximately the specs you mentioned (but with a 1 TB HDD, 6 GB RAM, USB 3 port and 2.5 hours of battery life) for 1250 euros total. It's about half a year old. So your figures do seem to scale rather well.

1080p on a laptop monitor just doesn't work, though. The thing's an 18.4" beast and the pixels are STILL rather small. You really need an external monitor for a good full HD experience.

Re:Resolution

[DaVince21]

Asus K93S?

Quad Core i7
1TB HD
6GB RAM
1920x1080 screen

1250EUR = $1620

Re:Resolution

[DaVince21]

Let's not forget that good IDEs also make use of their horizontal space rather well.

Re:Resolution

[pmontra]

18.4" means it's a very wide skateboard-class laptop :-) so I'm probably not interested in it, but what model is it?

I'm not afraid by small pixels: Ubuntu has a setting for the monitor's DPI and it scales the fonts accordingly. The last Windows I used regularly was XP three years ago and I remember it had something similar even if it didn't work well all the times (some programs had their opinions on the size of fonts) but I bet it has been solved since then.

Anyway, I'd be happy to get a laptop with the same 1680x1050 screen I'm using now but I know I can't because the 16:10 form factor has been replaced by 16:9.

Re:Resolution

[DaVince21]

The model is Asus K93S (or K93SV). It's also the most well-cooled laptop I've ever owned (seriously, it simply doesn't get hot at all). Comes with Win7 as a sort of bonus.

One catch for Linux with this laptop, though: you need to install and use bumblebee in order to be able to use the discrete graphics card (NVidia GT540M). This is also recommended because bumblebee can disable the discrete graphics card for you when it's not being used, which is good for battery life.

The laptop is indeed quite huge, but that's what you get for good specs, I suppose! Especially since it's about half a year old by now. With my next lappy I'll try to keep the size in account. :)

Re:Resolution

[drew_eckhardt]

1920x1080 on a 15" screen is good for a pair of 80 column x 60 line text areas at a nice size and three 80 column x 70 line text areas at a legible size with space left over at the top of the screen for icons + useless window title bar.

Opened on the same source file that's 120 lines and 210 lines respectively.

If that's still too limiting your code needs to be refactored into smaller more abstract pieces.

Re:Resolution

[Anonymous Coward]

OMG Seriously?

I just bought a Refurbished Dell Precision M4600 direct from Dell outlet. 1920x1080 screen, real keyboard. Even a numeric pad. I love this laptop.

Everything (I repeat, everything) is working perfectly with a 3.2 series kernel. I love this laptop, and I highly recommend it.

Oh, Yeah. specs.

Quad Core i5 (i7's available)
750GB 7200RPM HD
8GB RAM
1920x1080 -matte- screen

$980 after tax in Indiana.

Suck it, Apple. For a solid development machine (I don't need to dev for iOS), this can't be beat.

(FWIW - I am a devout mac user for more than 20 years now, and I'm typing this on my laptop perched on my desk in front of my 24" iMac)

Re:Resolution

[John_Booty]

Yes. I did a lot of shopping and bought a 17" MBP as well, because I wanted that 1920x1200 display. In the world of "higher end" laptops like this, it was actually quite price-competitive with Thinkpads and Dells. I could have matched the MBP's specs and price (mostly) by going with a 10-pound luggable monster from Alienware, but I'm 35 at this point and I don't need clients laughing at me when I bust out my laptop at a meeting and the glowing alien eyes and HR Giger-lite styling light up.

I've found the latest (early 2011) model pretty decent for gaming! ATI 6750M 1GB isn't too bad at all. Portal 2 ran great even under OSX.

Heat was more of an issue than framerate (the machine never overheated or anything) but even Visual Studio + Resharper makes the fans spin, so the fans are really cranking when I play games.

Linux support

[Ignacio]

They've supported it just fine for a long time. It's their hardware offerings that have been spotty.

Re:Linux support

[jedidiah]

Yes. This is why the new announcement is such a joke.

You're probably much better off buying from a Linux speciality vendor. Why be treated like an ugly redheaded stepchild by Dell?

6 months to install Linux?

[Kenja]

That's not encouraging. I jest of course, that's a reasonable time to ensure a support line for the platform. We'll see how it works out, would be nice to have an OEM doing a Linux system that's more then just installing it and forgetting about it.

Re:6 months to install Linux?

[weepinganus]

6 months to install Linux?

Maybe it's Gentoo.

Re:6 months to install Linux?

[Neil_Brown]

Reply to undo accidental mod.

Re:6 months to install Linux?

[socceroos]

Statement regarding the puzzling importance parent put on accidental mod.

ubuntu eh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Real developers won't be keeping that installed. Debian, CentOS, Fedora.... anything but Ubuntu would have been a smart choice.

Re:ubuntu eh?

[Blaskowicz]

debian is too much outdated for a brand new laptop, and for the other distros : .rpm? are we stuck in the 90s?

Re:ubuntu eh?

[pmontra]

Ubuntu 12.04 minus Unity plus Mate should be ok. I'm using Unity on my netbook but I won't upgrade (wrong word) my notebook to it.

Re:ubuntu eh?

[CubicleZombie]

Doesn't matter. By the time I get it, it will have the corporate Windows XP image installed with the admin account locked out, all the wrong drivers, and an antivirus running full disk scans 24 hours a day. Oh how I wish I could disconnect from the company "IT" department.

Re:ubuntu eh?

[allo]

> Mate
no real developer wants something gnomeish.

Re:ubuntu eh?

[Patch86]

kubuntu-desktop is always just an apt-get away. Or xubuntu-desktop. Or lubuntu-desktop.

That's the forgotten joy of Ubuntu- even compared with other Linux distros, window managers are fantastically easy. There are so many pre-built ones for the distro which you can guarantee will play nice with all the other default software. It's one of those little benefits which Unity has really managed to focus in my mind...

Re:ubuntu eh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Real developers won't be keeping that installed. Debian, CentOS, Fedora.... anything but Ubuntu would have been a smart choice.

Okay, we get it. Your dick is bigger than ours.

Year of the linux laptop?

[Anonymous Coward]

Could 2012 be the year of the linux laptop? And I might not be completely joking here.

Re:Year of the linux laptop?

[Moheeheeko]

Not if Dell is behind it. You saw what they did to Alienware.

Re:Year of the linux laptop?

[Anonymous Coward]

From the summary it's obviously the Summer of George on the desktop.

Re:Year of the linux laptop?

[networkBoy]

ignoring the troll part, and also with a response to a comment in a parallel thread.
No this won't be linux on the desktop, mostly because the market segment is still too small. (this is targeting devs, thus a small market).

Someone else said anything but Ubuntu, and I disagree.
I think if Dell goes through with this , it is a good thing. A notebook with all know Linux compatible HW (with working sound even?) would be great. Doesn't matter what distro you put on there, at least the HW is not going to give you fits. Ubuntu is just as good as any other, and I'd argue that it's better for this application. If a Linux newbie buys this at least they won't be dead in the water because they don't know how to use apt or yum.
-nB

Re:Year of the linux laptop?

[Anonymous Coward]

IIRC in the past Alienware tried to work with Linux gaming companies, they got some interest but the companies weren't attentive enough to get a product out the door. Alienware was more than willing to ship a product with Linux on it (and did, for certain customers.)

Re:Year of the linux laptop?

[mmaniaci]

Um. Any real gamer/poweruser already knew Alienware was a joke. When Dell took over, it was just ... more obvious.

Language

[Anonymous Coward]

>Oriented

I was told here on Slashdot, by a Brit, that the actual word is orientated. Because that's how they speak it over there and we country bumpkins across the pond can't enunciate correctly.

--
BMO

Re:Language

[6031769]

Indeed. Orient is a noun, orientate is a verb. This is why, among other things, there are orientation sessions but never oriention sessions.

Re:Language

[Anonymous Coward]

Orient can also be a verb: http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/orient?region=us&q=orient

Re:Language

[aethelrick]

They're both correct (as much as a constantly evolving language can be). They were both independently derived from the same French word "orienter" which is a verb as it happens. Orient was first used in the 1700s and Orientate was first used in the 1800s. One was not derived from the other. Pedants begone!

Re:Language

[smittyoneeach]

Slash Dot on the Orient Express. Film at eleven.

Re:Language

[Anonymous Coward]

If I had moderatory points, I would voter for you.:)

Re:Language

[Anonymous Coward]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/orient

Re:Language

[Tough Love]

I think you meant votation.

Re:Language

[sootman]

Hmm...

Music orientated so when hip-hop was originated
Fitted like pieces of puzzles, complicated

Yup, sounds good to me!
http://www.angelfire.com/rock/lotsoflyrics/microphonefiend.html

Re:Language

[TeknoHog]

I occidentally the whole train.

Here's a thought...

[MikeRT]

If I am going to be using the laptop outside of a dimly lit room, give me the option of buying a quality matte display. I don't care if it's an extra $200. Just give me the damn option. My comfort and ability to work in public without feeling like I'm staring into a mirror is more important.

Re:Here's a thought...

[EnsilZah]

I don't want to sound like a shill but every time I see people complaining about laptop monitor glossiness and resolution I feel the urge to recommend a Thinkpad.
Probably not quite as solid as in the IBM days but still pretty good. (at least the T and W models)

Re:Here's a thought...

[Anonymous Coward]

I've had 8 laptops over the last 20 years. Of all them, I have three laptops left: an antique 386 Thinkpad with black and white display (running Windows 3.1), a Thinkpad with a 133 MHz processor (running Windows 95), and a 1 year old Samsung. Everything else died. Thinkpads were meant to last. My parents have a 4 year old Lenovo Thinkpad that is going strong with no repairs. I can't say that for either HP laptop I've had in the same time span, both of which had a severe phobia of being turned on after 18 months.

Re:Here's a thought...

[Bill_the_Engineer]

I don't want to sound like a shill but every time I see people complaining about laptop monitor glossiness and resolution I feel the urge to recommend a Thinkpad.

You should resist the urge.

The article mentioned the XPS13 which means the equivalent Thinkpad would be something close to a X series which is about $200 more in cost. I would get the Ubuntu based XPS13 and buy a $13 matte display filter, before I considered the thinkpad.

Re:Here's a thought...

[Eponymous Coward]

Last year, I bought a T520 with the 15" 1080p matte screen. It's the first Thinkpad I've bought and I have to say, it's a bit of a dog. Battery life sucks, the fans are too noisy, the machine is too flexy, the trackpad has a weird texture on it, and it comes pre-bloated with too much crapware. I think about reformatting it every time I use it. The screen is fantastic, but I don't have many other positive things to say about it.

I wouldn't recommend Thinkpad.

Re:Here's a thought...

[Anonymous Coward]

"Pobably not quite as solid as in the IBM"

Umm. Yeah. The first thing Lenovo did was drop the flexview panels (admittedly an issues with the supplier going belly up). Good bye IPS UXGA. Then they had WUXGA TN panels. They have a vertical viewing angle measured in arc-seconds. Of course now no one sells anything above 1680x1050. God forbid you want 1080p, your're going to a 17" "laptop". Fuck me.

Re:Here's a thought...

[Anonymous Coward]

I second your thoughts, maybe when Dell/anyone is aware of these:

Better than iPad 3 Displays: Next Generation Pixel Qi screens
http://pixelqi.com/blog1/2012/04/21/next-generation-pixel-qi-screen-improves-over-ipad3-display/

"We have a new architecture that matches the resolution of the ipad3 screen, and its full image quality including matching or exceeding contrast, color saturation, the viewing angle and so forth with massive power savings. We even added a very low power mode that runs at a full 100X power reduction from the peak power consumed by the iPad3 screen."

Re:Here's a thought...

[Anonymous Coward]

I purchased an SL410 and only didn't find it disappointing even when I reminded myself it cost only $300; I can't recommend the SL series with my personal experience unless you need something that looks more reliable than it is. I ended up covering the entire laptop with metal foil duct tape and told everyone it was my "new macbook pro." That made it good for a laugh.

Re:Here's a thought...

[Craig Ringer]

Do Lenovo still follow IBM's tradition of having the BIOS check for unauthorized 3G and WiFi cards and refusing to boot? I'm seeing mixed reports and Lenovo themselves don't seem to have a clue.

Re:Why Ubuntu?

[knuthin]

vim.

Shovelware

[vlm]

I'm worried about the shovelware. Will ten antiviruses and junk like that be in a removable ubuntu package or will it be too deeply embedded into the OS to remove?

Re:Shovelware

[mspohr]

I don't think you understand Linux.
No antivirus.
Everything is configurable.
Not like Windows and Mac at all.

Re:Shovelware

[Anonymous Coward]

There is an extremely small collection of Malware for Ubuntu. It would take an almost deliberate application of stupidity to allow the malware permission to do any damage, but I don't think that's where this laptop's target market is.

Re:Shovelware

[BanHammor]

Well, prove me wrong, but you can shovel whatever you want on Linux, provided that it is written for Linux. So, shovelware is possible.

Re:Shovelware

[mspohr]

You are right... and Dell is not above installing shovelware on its machines.
However, on Linux its very easy to get rid of all of that stuff with a few clicks unlike other OSs where the shovelware can be hidden in multiple obscure places and can be as difficult to remove as some malware.

Re:Shovelware

[CastrTroy]

You're assuming the shovelware was installed using the standard package manager, and not installed by just copying the files into some arcane directory, plus a bunch of stuff inserted into random start-up scripts to ensure it always runs.Windows is actually nice in this respect because mostly all you have to do is wipe out "c:/program files/shovelware" clean out the registry, and remove any start items my using msconfig. With Linux, it's not uncommon for programs to have files located in many different directories, such as binaries, libraries, configuration files, and various other things.. And even if they did install using the standard package manager, what happens when they made X Server dependant on said shovelware, and the only way the package manager wants to uninstall the shovel ware is to also uninstall the GUI.

Re:Shovelware

[hal2814]

That's assuming the Linux shovelware is installed via package management. If Dell is not above shovelware, they may also not be above an install process that bypasses APT. That would make removing the software problematic unless you knew exactly what you're looking for.

Re:Shovelware

[mspohr]

I never install anything not in the package manager and I'm not aware of any reputable software which doesn't use the package manager.
If Dell started the nonsense you describe, it would be a non-starter with any developer (and developers are the target of this machine).
You are describing an alternate Linux universe which does not exist and which would doom this project to failure if your hypothetical scenario was implemented.
Dell is not that stupid.

Re:Shovelware

[mspohr]

Dell is not that stupid.
If they tried this tactic, the project would fail with developers (their target audience) or developers would just wipe the machine and install real Linux, not your hypothetical bastardized Linux.
No developer would stand for a "Tivoized" Linux.

Re:Shovelware

[vlm]

Dell is not that stupid.

LOL !

Re:Shovelware

[jimicus]

You assume Dell would have the good manners to install shovelware through the existing packaging system.

That is one hell of an assumption right there.

Re:Shovelware

[mspohr]

If you would have read the other posts in this thread, you would have read that if Dell did do something stupid outside the package system that either a) no one would buy the system, or b) they would immediately wipe it and install standard Ubuntu.
That is the advantage of having a free open OS. Unlike Windows and MacOS, you always have the option of installing the free standard system. Dell may be venal and clumsy but I think they understand the basic situation and they know that if they tried to install some special magic crapware that they would just be shooting themselves in their collective feet. You just can't get away with this the same way you can with Windows and MacOS.

Re:Shovelware

[jedidiah]

Dell IS that stupid.

You're assuming that Dell actually cares about this thing succeeding. All of their previous attempts with desktop Linux clearly demonstrate this to not be the case.

Re:Shovelware

[vandamme]

That would take me an hour to remedy, and that includes 15 minutes to drink a coffee and 20 minutes to find my Ubuntu disk.

Laugh

[koan]

Developing on a 13 inch screen...

Re:Laugh

[MyLongNickName]

I don't know about you, but I like using a laptop and plugging into an external monitor when I need it.

Re:Laugh

[serviscope_minor]

Developing on a 13 inch screen...

Developing on dual 30" screens is certainly nicer, but it you can't develop on a 13" screen, then you're not terribly effective. I developed good software on a netbook (1024x600), since I was travelling a lot and I valued the light weight (940g for a 20G EEE 900, with the lightest PSU I've ever used) and decent battery life over a big screen.

Once you're all set up with a decent folding editor and plenty of virtual screens, it's a surprisingly good environment.

And don't forget that unless you're flogging the CPU, the backlight is the biggest power draw, which scales with the square of the diagonal length. You simply cannot have a lightweight large screen laptop with a long battery life.

Remember, no matter how awesomely huge your screen space is, development is a bit of a drag if you have to write the code on paper when the battery runs out.

Re:Laugh

[owlman17]

Using Unity...

Re:Laugh

[Scarred Intellect]

Caution: Anecdotal evidence follows. I had a Dell Inspiron (forget the exact model number) back in 2004 with a 17.5" WUXGA monitor (1920x1200). Developing code in Visual Studio, playing music, the occasional websurfing (over wifi) on battery would last well over 5 hours. The only thing I tweaked was that since I was in a fluorescent lighted building, I turned my monitor brightness down a bit, and I used inverted colors in my IDE (black background). I don't know if the inverted colors made a difference in power consumption directly, but the contrast with the text was clear enough that I could turn down the overall brightness without sacrificing visual quality.

Re:Laugh

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not the size that counts, it's the number of pixels... and how you use them.

Re:Laugh

[Anonymous Coward]

That's why the make additional batteries and external batteries for run times into the 20 hour area.

Re:Laugh

[serviscope_minor]

Caution: Anecdotal evidence follows. I had a Dell Inspiron (forget the exact model number) back in 2004 with a 17.5" WUXGA monitor (1920x1200). Developing code in Visual Studio, playing music, the occasional websurfing (over wifi) on battery would last well over 5 hours.

How much did it weigh? That also seems a long itme for such a large laptop, especially in 2004, though I guess backlight tech for that size of panel hasn't changed much in the mean time.

Re:Laugh

[Anonymous Coward]

I like using a laptop too, 17inch screen, I can go to cafe's where for some reason i feel more productive (I have coffee at home so that's not it) I also have an external battery and the laptop runs for ~20 hours.

But a 13 inch screen? No thank you.

Re:Laugh

[koan]

It is size that matters no matter what your girlfriend said.

Re:Laugh

[Scarred Intellect]

I think about 7 pounds. To me, weight of a laptop has never been an issue, so I don't even consider it, and often forget that most people care about this a lot.

It was a good time, but I kept hard drive activity down, I had firefox open usually with several tabs, some documentation, my IDE of course (Visual Studio), winamp streaming from my home computer, all over wifi. If I turned my monitor brightness back up, I'd still get over 3 hours.

Re:Laugh

[s73v3r]

It's not a matter of being able to. Development can be done on a 9" netbook screen; I've done it. However, I would never choose to do such a thing if I had an alternative.

Re:Laugh

[somenickname]

I've used 12.5"-13.3" laptops for my development machines for years and you are exactly right. The key is setting up your environment to make the most of your screen realestate. By default most OS installs and applications are designed to be familiar/pretty with little thought to maximizing viewing space on a small screen. There are plenty of things you can do to maximize your working area: Effective and heavy use of virtual desktops, get rid of unused menu/tool bars, remove window decorations for maximized windows (devilspie), moving tab bars to the side instead of on top, put the task bar in a vertical orientation, learn your keyboard shortcuts, etc.

720 vertical pixels seems very limiting but, if you take some time to setup your environment, you can actually use all 720 of them to as a work area.

Re:Laugh

[Vegemeister]

13 inches is perfect... at 2560x1600.

Re:Laugh

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah and a microscope.

Re:Laugh

[Anonymous Coward]

And don't forget that unless you're flogging the CPU, the backlight is the biggest power draw, which scales with the square of the diagonal length. You simply cannot have a lightweight large screen laptop with a long battery life.

Uhh... what?

Battery capacity also scales with the "square of the diagonal length". The bigger the screen is, the bigger the laptop chassis is... and the more battery you can pack in.

Apple advertises the same "up to 7 hours" for each MacBook Pro model at 13", 15" and 17".

Re:Laugh

[Unknown Lamer]

I think you're underestimating how pleasant it is to kick back on a deck chair and churn out some code for a few hours. I have one of those old core2 whatever low voltage laptops with a 13" screen (eh, every 15" had the same resolution... and I made the mistake of buying a 17" monstrosity before), and it really is nice not being tethered to a desk (for 6+ hours of heavy use even).

Of course, in small screen editing mode I'll have a full screen Emacs frame (~270x96 characters isn't too shabby and can house 3 or 4 windows comfortably) with a tiny font and spread things out onto more desktops so it's only a bit less convenient.

But then I have a 24" monitor, clickety keyboard, and trackball sitting on my desk.

Re:Why Ubuntu?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ever tried Cygwin? vim also runs on Windows.

Aw bloody hell... it's based on the XPS series

[Anonymous Coward]

That means the fookin' USB3 ports will never work and Dell will continue to blame the customer for the defect as usual.

Re:Aw bloody hell... it's based on the XPS series

[tom17]

Wait, what? What is this about?

I have an XPS with USB3 ports. I thought they worked OK. I recently got a USB3 disk enclosure and had problems formatting a drive. Ended up doing it in Linux on another machine and put it down to Windows.

I also plugged in someone's stupid USB cigarette (to charge it) and I think it 'blew' my USB port. I keep getting these 'power surge' alerts in Win7 ever since. I am planning on restoring windows soon and then running it through the warranty process.

From what you said, it sounds like I may be in for a shock. Are they generally being arsey about failed hardware now?

Scared...

Tom...

Re:Aw bloody hell... it's based on the XPS series

[qbast]

Really? I got Dell with broken USB3 port (Vostro instead of XPS though) - controller would stop working about 3 minutes of heavy use. I called Dell, next day repair guy came and replaced the controller - it took 15 minutes. Dell's warranty service is actually very, they replace broken part without any stupid 'it is probably a virus' games. On the other hand this was the first laptop that was faulty on first day.

Re:Aw bloody hell... it's based on the XPS series

[ADRA]

A co-worker and I both bought XPS-15's at the same time. Mine was an I7 and his an I5. His comp took a dive after two days and mine has been fine. Anyways, for warantee, they made him pay for shipping to them (not sure if this is standard or not) and he'd have to wait until it was all repaired before getting it back. Since he was actually using the laptop for real work and all, he just returned it and decided to buy something local.

Re:Aw bloody hell... it's based on the XPS series

[tom17]

*gulp*. Wish me luck!

I have my old Dell 640m to fall back on (C2D), but the battery is, well, battery?

Corporate Reverse Engineering

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe Dell can succeed where legions of open-source developers have failed: to twist the arm of hardware developers to release the source of their drivers so we can FINALLY use our computers with Linux without ages of pointless driver and configuration file tweaking!

Re:Corporate Reverse Engineering

[hobarrera]

Why is this downvoted? It's pretty insightful, if dell starts shipping Ubuntu with success, we might start getting documentation or open source drivers for hardware that is currently supported with reverse engineering in the long run!

developer tools preinstalled

[Anonymous Coward]

You lost me at:

The software side is so far just a customized install with developer tools preinstalled.

They dropped it from their website?

[realityimpaired]

http://www.dell.com/ca/business/p/laptops?~ck=mn#!facets=16260~0~195640&p=1

Could have surprised me. My laptop is the predecessor to that model, the Vostro V130n, which came with Ubuntu LTS installed on it. They're still selling them, you just have to look for it. The V130n features a Celeron U3600, 2GB of RAM, 13.3" screen (1366x768), and came originally with a 250GB hard drive. The battery life isn't that great (about 2.5h with the factory configuration), but that's because the battery is very small (slightly less than the volume of a CD jewel case). I was able to increase the battery life to 4h by swapping the hard drive with an Intel 320-series SSD. 3.2lbs with the stock configuration, and slightly lighter than that with the hard drive swapped. Total cost (including the hard drive replacement) was under $500. If they can price this ultraportable under $1000 like they're doing with the XPS 13, I would seriously consider it when it comes time to replace my current laptop. (though that'll probably be a few years, it's plenty powerful enough for everything I throw at it).

It's nice that they're doing this, and more power to them, but it's misleading to claim that they aren't supporting Linux, when you can, today, buy a reasonably nice system with Ubuntu preinstalled on it.

Re:They dropped it from their website?

[Patch86]

That will depend on where you are in the world. They no-longer sell Ubuntu machines in the UK, infuriatingly, and haven't for quite a while. Depending on where the summary writer is from, they may not have realised that Dell still sells Ubuntu boxes in some parts of the world (I certainly didn't).

Re:They dropped it from their website?

[Ceriel Nosforit]

You could buy the machine from a different country and do a tag transfership. - Or call Dell sales and tell them you want an n-series machine.

IAADCSE. If you get a hold of me during business hours I will google your Ubuntu problems for you.

Re:They dropped it from their website?

[Patch86]

All duly noted, but I'd prefer not to have to go fishing in the dark for my laptops. How would I have known to contact Dell's sales team to ask for a computer I didn't know was for sale, and which isn't mentioned on their website? How would I even know whether it'd be best to call Dell or HP or Lenovo- they all have equally little on their websites on Ubuntu-loaded computers for sale.

If Dell wants to sell me an Ubuntu-loaded computer, all they need to do is put it on their website and the rest would fall into place. It doesn't even have to be obvious- just a search result with the keyword "linux" or "ubuntu" would do.

Probably just as much market positioning

[Kjella]

The software side is so far just a customized install with developer tools preinstalled. Ars remains skeptical about Dell's strategy for GNU/Linux support, which may be warranted given their track record.

Call it a "developer laptop" and you've probably scared away 99% of the market, the 99% Dell doesn't want. The ones who think it'll be like Windows or run Windows software or work with all accessories they have on their old PC. The people interested in Linux will know hey it's just an Ubuntu install with a few preloads, the important thing is the hardware is supported under Linux. To me it sounds good, to make it profitable it's just as much about not selling to the wrong people as selling to the right people. Support and returns will very quickly kill your margins.

Re:Probably just as much market positioning

[gbjbaanb]

well, maybe they should call it a 'professional' laptop and sell it to businesses - like the majority of their sales.

if it comes installed with everything you'd want, I doubt anyone would wipe it and start over, there comes a point where you just don't want to play with these things, you want to get work done. If they get a Linux install working (and that really means sorting all the driver issues like power management, and all the cheapest components Dell has a tendency to put in there from version to version) then it might well be a very good idea.

Besides, knowing Dell, it'll still have Windows as an option.

Re:Probably just as much market positioning

[Anonymous Coward]

Call it a "developer laptop" and you've probably scared away 99% of the market, the 99% Dell doesn't want. The ones who think it'll be like Windows or run Windows software...

You mean like - oh, I don't know - Windows developers?

Re:Probably just as much market positioning

[tepples]

Developers of Windows applications still need a machine on which to test their products in Wine. Granted, Wine is an edge case, but one I'd like to see supported better.

Re:Probably just as much market positioning

[Billly Gates]

I can't think who else would use Linux but developers? The 2 markets are servers and developers who write server software and computer science students. Seems accurate for Dell to target that market as your mother wouldn't use Ubuntu for serious use.

Re:Probably just as much market positioning

[jimicus]

What Wine needs above all else is support from a major application vendor.

Right now, if I recommend running a commercial Windows app under Wine and it doesn't work properly, queries to the app vendor will result in a brief "That's not supported" at best.

As long as this is the norm, Wine is fighting a losing battle in any business environment.

Re:Probably just as much market positioning

[Anonymous Coward]

No, they don't. They really don't. At all.

Re:Probably just as much market positioning

[Patch86]

Category three- and the one I'm imagining they're aiming for- is Android developers. Android is the top mobile platform by market share, and it plays nice with Linux (being Linux itself at heart). Mobile developers also strike me as the group most likely to care about stylishness and mobility.

Not to mention the fact that, barring an obscene price tag, they can always expect some interest from the hobbyist/enthusiast market, who are always desperate for Linux-ready premium hardware. Not a huge market, obviously, but sales are sales.

Sounds cool, but

[Danzigism]

It's almost as if they're just throwing the word "developer" in there just to make it seem like a different machine. I will admit it definitely peaks my interest and I'd certainly contemplate buying one. But every time I try to code on a laptop, especially web development, I get very frustrated with the lack of a good keyboard and mouse. Not to mention the INSERT key is probably the most important key for me to use and they're always in awkward places unlike your standard desktop keyboard. What also concerns me is the simple longevity problem with laptops. Hard drive crashes (maybe not so much nowadays thanks to SSD) and dead batteries seem to be all too common. Therefore relying on such a machine to get your work done is hard to do. I know people make due just fine, but for me personally it will take a lot convincing.

Re:Sounds cool, but

[jo_ham]

This is not a flame, but the phrase is "piques my interest". I don't disagree with the rest of your post.

Re:Sounds cool, but

[Danzigism]

thanks ;-) I learned something new today!

Re:Sounds cool, but

[Anonymous Coward]

It's also 'make do' (as in 'make do and mend'), not 'make due'.

Please don't mod this FUNNY

[MyLongNickName]

Keyboard must be easy to clean and resist spills. Test against Cheetos and Mountain Dew.

Re:Please don't mod this FUNNY

[MyLongNickName]

Why did I know that was going to happen... sigh.

Re:Please don't mod this FUNNY

[Anonymous Coward]

...and be identical to an old-style ThinkPad keyboard, with perhaps a swapped left ctrl and Fn keys.

Re:Please don't mod this FUNNY

[Anonymous Coward]

I was very disappointed when I opened my Thinkpad to find the Fn key where Ctrl should have been. A couple of minutes later I was ecstatic after finding the "swap Fn and Ctrl" option in the BIOS. And it even got better after coming to the conclusion that Fn is not a deadkey, it produces XF86WakeUp (on an x201).

Re:Please don't mod this FUNNY

[Anonymous Coward]

While I have seen things that might be called exceptions if you squint enough and don't consider IQ, I'd say no REAL developer wants to use a laptop all day. Sure, they're nice and it's nice to have a variety of things to make sure your stuff looks and works well in more than one place.

.

But I type way over 120 wpm on a real keyboard (wear them out in a few months), and really do like my twin 23" non-wide screens when I'm developing. I need real estate both places to do my best and quickest work.

The metrosexual web designer cliche'

[Overzeetop]

I find significant dissonance with their two statements:

"ways to make the developer experience as powerful and simple as possible" and
"what better way to do that than beginning with a laptop that is both highly mobile and extremely stylish"

I was unaware that web designers did most of their work "in the field" away from modern conveniences like desks and dual monitors. I am also surprised that "stylish" is equated with "powerful and simple".

By the look of their press release, I'd say they are trying to convert all of the metrosexual Apple users to Dell brand users with shiny and an OSX-esque GUI. Function and capability don't appear to play into the equation much.

Re:The metrosexual web designer cliche'

[mcmonkey]

By the look of their press release, I'd say they are trying to convert all of the metrosexual Apple users to Dell brand users with shiny and an OSX-esque GUI. Function and capability don't appear to play into the equation much.

Bingo.

Re:The metrosexual web designer cliche'

[shawn(at)fsu]

But ... But it's going to be stylish!

I'd just be happy if the laptop didn't need a power converter that's bigger than a hardback novel. Seriously Dell it's getting out of hand,

Re:The metrosexual web designer cliche'

[Anonymous Coward]

I was unaware that web designers did most of their work "in the field" away from modern conveniences like desks and dual monitors.

Ah, okay, I see your confusion. You're using reality as your basis, not Reality(tm), the convenient-to-purchase, off-the-shelf basis managers and shareholders got a free trial subscription to after they bought their MBAs. Allow me to demonstrate:

In reality: "Effectively all web designers do most of their work at a desk with at least one sizable monitor. This is just how it's done. It's far more comfortable and productive that way."

In Reality(tm): "I just heard of these two guys who developed a whole video game on laptops in coffeeshops! ZOMG TEH FUTURES SO TRENDY AND PROFITS!!1!"

See the difference? One is based on the present day with a wide variety of data points from the field (not to mention experience in said field), the other is based on something that was hot and popular a couple years ago, not related to the topic at hand apart from "being on those computer televisions those goddamned four-eyes in my engineering department keep whining about", a narrow one-track minded profit-driven view of the world, and an isolated incident regardless.

I hope this clears up any confusion.

Re:The metrosexual web designer cliche'

[gbjbaanb]

and why not - Apple has sold well with their kit, Dell wants a piece of that and is initially targetting Android development.

From an article of the register:

Dell is crafting a tool with coders that connects to a GitHub repository and pulls down âoedeveloper profilesâ â" a toolchain configuration built to suit a particular type of work - the first of which are targeting Android, Ruby and JavaScript development. After these Dell wants the community to build profiles of their own and it's inviting feedback at the Ubuntu Developer Summit in Oakland, California, this week

So, that's the benefit - preinstalled developer toolchains for web devs who (presumably) can't figure out how to install all that complicated stuff for themselves :)

Re:The metrosexual web designer cliche'

[s73v3r]

Just because something is powerful doesn't mean it can't look good.

Re:The metrosexual web designer cliche'

[WalkingBear]

They're aiming at the right market, ie.. Macbook pro using IT and design professionals, developers, etc.. However, their marketing is a bit skewed in that they still equate mac purchasers as those interested in 'style' over function.

I won't go into all the reasons I use a macbook pro for my day-to-day work computer, and have for the last 5+ years. Suffice it to say, though, that it has nothing whatsoever to do with 'stylish' and everything to do with power and flexibility and appropriateness to the environments I work in.

Re:The metrosexual web designer cliche'

[PuZZleDucK]

As someone who uses AIDE (Android IDE) sometimes partially because it is just a million times easier to deal with than eclipse. I use it (on a hobbiest level albeit) to develop on the go "away from [any kind of] modern conveniences like [chairs, powerpoints, lights, pens] desks and [any] monitors" such as while camping and visiting friends. I'm looking forward to this, I have been for a long time.

developers! developers! developers.

[Blaskowicz]

developers. developers. developers. (developers developers developers)

Re:developers! developers! developers.

[rock_climbing_guy]

void Ballmer (Developers devlopers) { throw Chair; }

Re:developers! developers! developers.

[rrohbeck]

Each stanza had 4 "developers." Jeez, you don't even know your Ballmer, the greatest poet evar.

Bring back 4x3 screen ratio: more vertical screen

[billmil]

As a developer, I need more vertical screen space: looking at code, looking at debuggers, editing long files.

I have two monitors at work: an ld 19" and 23". The 23" has less vertical screen space than the 19".

More vetical screen real estate would make a laptop more dev friendly

Ubuntu as a development platform.

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, I'm glad to hear they are at least waiting 6 months before putting anything into the market. It'll take that time for any and all bugs pertaining to Ubuntu 12.04 to be cleared up, I'm sure.

I want to say Ubuntu would be a terrible platform for development, but I've found that despite its rapidly changing environment its often been the easiest to configure solely from the repositories. I'd be interested if they don't preinstall tons of unnecessary crap and the drivers it comes with are solid.

Re:Bring back 4x3 screen ratio: more vertical scre

[Partaolas]

Turn it to the side...

Kidding of course, hard to do it with a laptop anyways, but while I was working on a long report recently I decided to rotate my 19" monitor and it was great.

My laptop has a 12" 4x3 screen and I find it much better than the 13-14" wide screen ones.

Question

[Murdoch5]

How is this any different then selling a normal notebook and letting the developer run one apt-get to install all the developer tools?

Re:Question

[Anonymous Coward]

They charge more. That's how.

Re:proof Linux is not ready yet

[Anonymous Coward]

The same can be said for Windows--ever install it on a machine where the NIC driver wasn't included? Pretty awesome when you get to spend hours tracking down drivers on another machine.

Is OSX ready for main stream? Apple makes it so the only way you can legally run it is on a box built so that "it just works." Hackintosh machines need a lot of hacking to get them running right, and forget about updates.

6 Months...

[ratboy666]

Is not long enough. We use our laptops for 3 (or more) years. Every 3 (2 if I beg) I can have a new one.

I expect that I can have one of these in 2 years (having just gone through a replacement). Been pushing for an Apple laptop, anyway...

Re:6 Months...

[Anonymous Coward]

Not pushing for a ThinkPad rollout? For shame...

It's not the software, it's the hardware

[rjlouro]

Developers have no problems hacking their favorite environment, linux, windows, whatever. It's the hardware that counts. Personally I'd like a development laptop that would be:

• - Very high resolution
• - 4:3 format
• - mate screen, enough of that bright crap
• - Powerfull CPU and RAM
• - No internal DVD drive, swap that for an additional HD or Battery
• - present that in several options, from 12 to 17 inch. Developers do travel sometimes, and they love to take their gear with them.
• - a very good keyboard, with decent feedback. IBM M-Type would be great
• - Button to disable trackpad.
• - A good docking station to hook up external monitors, keyboard+mouse, etc.
• - Easily removable everything, battery, ram, HD, etc.

Do that and I buy one.

Re:It's not the software, it's the hardware

[Anonymous Coward]

4:3 format

They can all do that. Unless the display has a resolution lower than 4 x 3 pixels.

Re:It's not the software, it's the hardware

[MMC Monster]

Everyone (well, every dev at least) wants more vertical real estate.

Can't someone make up a laptop with a screen that can rotate 90 degrees?

Imagine a 9:16 screen to write on. Screw devs, that would sell to anyone that has to write on the road.

Re:It's not the software, it's the hardware

[MMC Monster]

LOL.

Can imagine someone getting the screen and seeing black bars on the two sides to fix the aspect ratio.

Re:It's not the software, it's the hardware

[Anonymous Coward]

Buy a previous model Lenovo W or T-series.

Re:It's not the software, it's the hardware

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

Then all the smilies would come out wrong. You would not have to tilt your head to make sense of the smilies. That is why they dont let you rotate the screen.

Re:It's not the software, it's the hardware

[Anonymous Coward]

Aside from the 4:3 ratio, you're talking about Thinkpads.

Re:It's not the software, it's the hardware

[Anonymous Coward]

You forgot:

* SSD option or no fixed storage unit at all so we can insert our own (not a bad idea because the spacier ones are quite pricey)

(I have never bought a laptop with an HDD in it in my life and probably never will. All my computers currently run on SSDs, just saying because there are still wary people out there. Not to brag because they're all the cheapest models available. Cheap works, though. Just don't use the cheapest hooker and you're good.)

Re:It's not the software, it's the hardware

[WalkingBear]

We had a discussion at work about a tech refresh coming down the pipe. Rumor mill was pointing toward all the admins/engs/archs/devs getting shiny new dell ultrabooks.. 13 inch, super light, super thin, "sexy".

The unanimous and loud "Noooooooo!!!!" would have made Lucas proud.

I specced a Dell "portable workstation" with 1920x1080, 15inch matte screen, quad core, 8gb ram, ssd, professional discreet graphics card for about the same price as the 1366x768 13inch, 4gb (max), dual core wafer thin model. Yeah, it's 7lbs vs. 2lb, but it has a usably fast cpu, decent screen real estate, etc.

It's not "stylish" unless you define style as "doing your job on time with a kick ass powerful machine that doesnt' get in your way" as being stylish.

Re:Why Ubuntu?

[19thNervousBreakdown]

Visual Studio vs VIM is like an aircraft carrier vs the world's greatest compound bow. I'll grant you, it is the best goddamned bow the world has ever seen. A good bowman can take shots a sniper would be hard-pressed to make, and there is a simple joy to using such a powerful and versatile tool. And if you want, you can call it the rustiest piece of shit aircraft carrier that's ever wallowed the seas. But come on. Be real. They're hardly even the same thing.

Re:Bring back 4x3 screen ratio: more vertical scre

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, when I read "developer laptop" I immediately imagined a portrait-oriented laptop wide enough for insert/delete cluster and the numpad. It would be quite a behemoth. Alas, nothing that radical is offered.

Re:Why Ubuntu?

[19thNervousBreakdown]

GVIM runs natively on Windows, and it does so fantastically. If you're ever stuck on Windows I highly recommend it.

Dell, if you're listening,

[Hermanas]

This is a great idea, and I'd definitely support it if it materializes, even though I bought a new laptop just last week. Just make sure it has a *matt* display, decent screen-size (so I can do both development and design) and decent resolution. And at least 4GB of memory, but preferably 8GB (having tons of tabs and browsers open tends to eat memory). The rest, like graphics card and battery life, I'm not extremely bothered about. But give me this laptop, without the need to pay for Windows and keep it on in order to not void the warranty, and you'll have more than enough customers lining up.

Know your customers

[CaseyB]

We want to find ways to make the developer experience as powerful and simple as possible [...] extremely stylish

Failed, right out of the gate.

Re:Know your customers

[jo_ham]

Why? Style and function need not be mutually exclusive, and the prevailing "wisdom" on /. of late to equate anything that aims to have style as some insignificant toy that automatically means function is compromised is really missing the point.

Can't a developer aspire to both, or must you relegate them to always having an ugly, clunky machine that is unpleasant to look at and work on?

Re:Know your customers

[An ominous Cow art]

On that topic, I joked last week that I was going to construct my ideal laptop out of a Mac mini, 24" LCD, Model M keyboard, car battery, and duct tape. :-)

developer laptop?

[Anonymous Coward]

Laptops suck for development. The only thing that makes them suck less is a top notch keyboard.

Keyboard and screen

[mario_grgic]

I want standard US keyboard layout with only one thing written on each key, I want high resolution screen (130 DPI and over). I can't buy a PC laptop because none of them have good keyboard and every key has 5 things written on it and for some reason in Canada ALL keyboards have stupid layout where left shift key is split and \ placed next to z. All keys programmers use all the time like brackets, semicolon etc keys are at non-standard locations. Enter key is split and weirdly shaped. I pretty much have to buy Mac and then install whatever OS I want on it just because PC hardware is getting hideously unusable.

Re:Keyboard and screen

[pmontra]

For reference: http://www.theblog.ca/bilingual-canadian-keyboard

Re:Keyboard and screen

[vgerclover]

That's odd... you have the same key in two different places of the keyboard? I'm no stranger to weird keyboard layouts, having a Spanish and a Latam keyboards at home.

Re:Keyboard and screen

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

And here I thought that fighting a war to hold onto the south was a bad idea... I'm surprised that Quebec hasn't been expelled forcibly for foisting that abomination on everyone...

A developer oriented laptop with a user-friendly O

[hobarrera]

Really, why does having a user-friendly OS make a laptop developer-friendly?
I think both things are generally mutually exclusive.

No VGA out, no dock, no multi-head support

[sl4shd0rk]

I almost purchased an XPS a couple months ago but wanted to run multiple monitors. Dell said they don't have a docking station for it so all you get is HDMI. Yeah.... no. I opted instead to build a micro-atx system. Not as portable but I've got dual heads, tons of ram, SSD, 8 cores, 4 VGA Outs, and a water cooled CPU. All for about the same price. If Dell would have offered dual head support through a docking station I probably would have been sold but kind of glad they don't now.

Re:No VGA out, no dock, no multi-head support

[loufoque]

Why didn't you just get a thinkpad?

Re:No VGA out, no dock, no multi-head support

[Anonymous Coward]

If you want a docking station, you need to get one of the Dell Precision machines: http://www.dell.com/us/enterprise/p/precision-m4600/pd

Re:No VGA out, no dock, no multi-head support

[ADRA]

I picked up an XPS 15 which supports mini-display port (which I dongled to DVI) and HDMI. At least with my video chip and Linux, I can run both external heads at the same time (not all three though, so I suppose only 2 internal DAC's). I think there's some inspirons that have dual headed docks, but I really haven't looked into it since getting mine. I'm pretty sure that Mini-display port can be dongled to VGA, but at least on linux it was always flaky for me.

Dell has supported Linux for over a Decade

[Matt_Bennett]

Dell has been supporting Linux on servers for well over 10 years. You've always been free to install Linux on your laptop- just don't expect to get (consumer level/any) support.

The hardware cost is just a fraction of what you pay. In a previous life, when I worked at a little company in Round Rock, TX that rhymes with hell, testing took up the vast majority of development effort, and every additional OS added to that test effort/cost. If/when the analysis says it can make a profit that is similar to the other lines of business, that path is taken.

Sorry to break the bad news

[bickerdyke]

...but a developer machine is a desktop.

External keyboard, individual to the devs taste of ergonomical. Two monitors, one for IDE/debugger, one for running/reference lookup.
Preloading any developper tools is pointless, as you will need the ones in use in your company.

Re:Sorry to break the bad news

[tepples]

a developer machine is a desktop.

In your opinion, what should developers do while commuting on public transit?

Two monitors, one for IDE/debugger, one for running/reference lookup.

I thought that's what the "snap" feature was for, so that IDE/debugger could fill the left half and running/reference lookup the right half.

Re:Sorry to break the bad news

[Anonymous Coward]

a developer machine is a desktop.

There are so many reasons why I agree with this.

Most of all - on every consumer laptop build I encounter - the insert/home/pgup key block and other favourites are invariably rearranged and smooshed into a corner somewhere; keypads are a rarity; crazy key layout ideas abound.

I had to work with a few satellites last year which had launcher buttons down the left hand side of the keyboard. Launch Power DVD was right beside escape, and felt like a key to the fingertip.
That wasn't annoying at all!

My current vostro is almost nice to code on, but trips and falls flat due to dells reinterpretation of a standard keyboard:
* No context menu key
* No sysreq/pause key (!!!!)
* Dedicated mute key beside the (kinda)shared 12 function keys. F6 & F7 have no alternate function...
* Three dedicated buttons with to instantly launch dell bloatware. Blugh.

Hey hardware goons! Could you swap my dusty tilde key for something more handy?
Maybe a quick CD tray eject?

Re:Sorry to break the bad news

[bickerdyke]

I was talking about your workspace, not commute. You usually spend much more time there and don't want to compromise there.

a) a laptop/netbook is a good addition, but you don't want to type 8hrs+ on a laptop keyboard. Say hi to carpal tunnel syndrome. It's ok during commute, but you shouldn't need to commute that long.

b) fine with at least a widescreen. but again, screen space is not replaceable. except by even more of it.

Re:Sorry to break the bad news

[loufoque]

Or you could use a dock.

It depends whether you're a full engineer, a manager, or a consultant.

Excellent idea, but why did it have to be Dell?

[Anonymous Coward]

Over the years I participated in purchase of a few laptops from Dell -- all of them had defects. Starting from m600 a few years back, where internal mic did not work, through the last one , which was bought from Dell against my advice, came DOA, got returned, and Dell refused to refund purchase tax.

So, good product idea, but I am not lining up with my wallet.

Re:Bring back 4x3 screen ratio: more vertical scre

[gbjbaanb]

16x10 is the best resolution, especially now the docks of your window managers are finding their way to the side (where they used to be, decades ago).

Emperor Linux

[smittyoneeach]

EL gives good Dell: http://emperorlinux.com/

No touchpad

[Anonymous Coward]

Replace the touchpad with a trackball (or at least let me disable the touchpad entirely when I plug in a USB trackball).

Widescreen IPS display

[sprior]

Widescreen IPS display with at least 1200 pixel vertical resolution or it didn't happen...

Re:Widescreen IPS display

[ADRA]

My coworker picked up:
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&cs=19&sku=224-9949&baynote_bnrank=7&baynote_irrank=0&~ck=baynoteSearch
This monitor looks rediculously crazy large, but absolutely awesome every time I walk by his desk.

Re:A developer oriented laptop with a user-friendl

[chris.alex.thomas]

because for the most part, worrying about the desktop leads to you wasting time from your primary activity, developing, instead you end up fixing the graphics, installing nvidia drivers, message around with config files wondering why your x desktop is broken, can't play music, uninstall pulseaudio, etc, etc.

having a desktop which is out of the box preconfigured and running means you can do your job and not waste time on stuff you shouldn't normally care about, or should I dare to say it, bother thinking about.

And Windows devs can go suck eggs.

[gestalt_n_pepper]

That appears to be the underlying message, but wait, what's that on Monster.com? Aren't most well paying developer jobs for, dare I say it, "Windows?"

FYI, I made my Window laptop adequate for development. I put in 16GB of DDR3 RAM and run two or three dedicated virtual machines to which I can quickly switch via the magic of "Alt-TAB." It's reasonably fast and the VMs act as different desktops. The new laptop and memory came in under $600.

Thanks Dell, but I'll keep my HP.

Re:And Windows devs can go suck eggs.

[jones_supa]

It's reasonably fast and the VMs act as different desktops.

Heh, that's pretty cool idea. I have never thought of using a bunch of VMs as virtual desktops. With a guest addition I suppose one could share some files between them too.

Re:And Windows devs can go suck eggs.

[loufoque]

Aren't most well paying developer jobs for, dare I say it, "Windows?"

People are usually paid more in more demanding jobs, such as those that require sustained performance and scalability, or integration in embedded systems. That kind of job is not done on Windows.

For those of you flaming the style comment

[GodfatherofSoul]

Is that marketing hype, an actual "must look like an Apple clone" requirement, or just to make it more appealing to developers in appearance. Personally, I'd love to have an Alienware m18 largely for it's looks (and performance). Stylish doesn't mean we're going to get commercials with graphics designers and bike messengers talking about how much they dig Sputnik and what it does for their hip lifestyles.

One thing missing

[Bazman]

Yeah, every web developer runs Ubuntu up until that moment when they realise they have to make sure the site works with Internet Explorer. So the first thing you'll have to do with this is install Virtual Box and do a Windows Install. You do have a Windows license, right?

Re:One thing missing

[Billly Gates]

Or have employers that demand experience with Dreamweaver and Photoshop

Re:One thing missing

[Anonymous Coward]

Who said it's for web development?

Re:One thing missing

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't need a Windows license to test IE in Linux anymore:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=11575

With a little finessing, these official microsoft images of Windows+IE can be installed and activated in Virtualbox. Create a snapshot before activation and before installing Guest Additions, and you can rollback whenever the evaluation expires (90 days or so.)

Re:One thing missing

[jedidiah]

What kind of idiot runs Windows on the bare metal just for IE?

The nice thing about a VM is that you can minimize your exposure from running Windows. It can be a locked down minimal install that will present a much smaller malware infection target.

You might even want different VMs for different test conditions.

If you are a "web developer" targeting IE then the Windows license is a non problem.

Re:One thing missing

[ChunderDownunder]

There's the dual boot option.

With virtualization accessing a physical disk, run Linux as a guest on Windows or reboot and run that same Windows as a guest inside Linux!

If Dell configured this out of the box...

Re:One thing missing

[Anonymous Coward]

No, I dont. No one known to myself, who needs to check for IE compatibility has one. We just pirate IE in Wine :D

Precision

[HideyoshiJP]

I thought that's what they marketed the mobile Precision line for (with optional 1920x1080 IPS display). With the exception of having a 16:9 instead of 16:10 display, it looks perfect on paper. I'm sure they could make an extremely thin version for web developers...

Re:Precision

[WalkingBear]

Why would web developers need an 'extremely thin' version? What's this obsession with super thin laptops? Has the fashion industry invaded our IT departments or something?

Re:Precision

[HideyoshiJP]

Frankly, I'm stereotyping.

Remember the Dell Mini 10 and Mini 10v?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's hard to trust Dell after what they did with the Mini 10 and Mini 10v.

Preloaded with Ubuntu, but still had loads of proprietary hardware. It worked great for six months until Dell decided to kill support and leave everyone stranded. Horrible experience.

Just because Dell pre-loads it with Linux doesn't mean that the hardware is supported in Linux. I made that assumption once and am still frustrated.

My demands for a dev. laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

I just bought a custom Clevo for these factors:
* Full HD High Quality Matte Display
* Best processor outside of stupidly expensive Extreme tier
* 32gb of RAM
* SSD as primary hard-drive for fast-as-possible compile time
* Large 7200rpm HDD as secondary hard-drive

What I don't really like on my Clevo is design and the fact that I can't buy it without an expensive and (for me) useless gaming graphics card.

Lots of RAM

[Nkwe]

Must support lots of RAM. "lots" as in 16-32 GB. This is necessary to support the multiple virtual machines necessary to represent a complex distributed infrastructures (directory server, database server, email server, web server, application server, firewall, client workstations, etc..) While you can combine roles for some testing, other testing can only be properly be tested / developed with your distributed functions actually distributed.

Granted that a lot of application development stuff can be done in smaller memory footprints, but when you get into building infrastructure labs, you need lots of memory.

Re:Lots of RAM

[jeffb (2.718)]

So, basically, what you're asking for is a lap cluster, right?

Re:Lots of RAM

[Nkwe]

So, basically, what you're asking for is a lap cluster, right?

Depends on how you define cluster, but in some cases, yes.

You would not get the CPU or IO necessary in a laptop environment to do any practical testing of clusters in the performance sense. You might however, want to lab up clustered failover scenarios and make sure that your Kerberos, naming, and certificate designs work in the event of a node failure. It is really more about topology simulation.

This is especially important if you are building infrastructure tools in a corporate Microsoft environment. It takes a lot of memory to stand up Active Directory, Exchange, SQL Server, SharePoint, UAG, ADFS, ADLDS, RMS, FIM, Certificate Services, etc.

Dockable! Dockable! Dockable!

[Thoguth]

I develop on a Dell laptop now and I run windows on it. I run Ubuntu 12 LTS in a virtualbox rather than as the main OS because I really like hot-dock capability, and it has never worked right in Linux. With Windows (7) I can hit that button and go to a meeting, snap it back in and have my dual-big-screen developer workstation. Devs aren't going to work on a single screen, so why bother with a high-res one?

The screen is so you can take notes, and check a server or DB from a meeting when you're away from your desk. The dock and the 2 roomy monitors that accompany it are for the real task of development.

If they can't support smooth docking and undocking (hopefully better than Win7--I would love for it to put my window positions back where they were last time I was docked) then this product will be a flop with me. Am I the only dev who thinks in terms of docking?

Re:Dockable! Dockable! Dockable!

[pls2917]

Wish I could mod you up for this. I've been trying Ubuntu on Dell laptop for development and this was the biggest roadblock I ran into.

Any developer worth hiring ...

[Skapare]

... can install her own OS to be exactly the way she wants it to be. But at least it's nice to know they might have picked hardware that actually works in Linux.

Re:Any developer worth hiring ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Wrong, she can't install anything, she does not have the brain cells for it. But He can install whatever is needed.

Re:Any developer worth hiring ...

[SteveFoerster]

Trollin'... trollin'... trollin' down the river....

Don't tell me what I want.

[Anonymous Coward]

"'We want to find ways to make the developer experience as powerful and simple as possible. And what better way to do that than beginning with a laptop that is both highly mobile and extremely stylish, "

Ummm. What developers are you referring to? Give me a nice dense 4:3 aspect ratio display (I know - this is a distant dream), lots of I/O, CPU power and RAM. I couldn't care less if my dev laptop watches movies or looks prettier than me and I really don't care how heavy it is.

And I don't care what OS you preinstall. I'm going to put my own one on anyway.

Applications that break at DPI over 96

[tepples]

What does resolution have to do with font size?

As the pixel density increases, the font size in physical pixels has to increase proportionally . But a lot of Windows applications (and, I assume, Linux applications) have broken layout if you run them at any DPI other than 96.

The new iPad has a 9" screen at 2048x1536

As with the iPhone 4 compared to the 3GS, the new iPad's screen is exactly twice as dense in each direction as the iPad 2's. This allows the operating system to more easily compensate for DPI-unaware applications. The Windows platform hasn't had such a jump.

Re:Applications that break at DPI over 96

[jones_supa]

As the pixel density increases, the font size in physical pixels has to increase proportionally . But a lot of Windows applications (and, I assume, Linux applications) have broken layout if you run them at any DPI other than 96.

This would be a good moment for some smart guys to start developing a beautiful fully-scalable windowing system for Linux!

Re:Applications that break at DPI over 96

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux stuff works fine at different DPIs. Most legacy software still in use runs in a terminal and therefore doesn't give a single fuck about DPI.

Re:Applications that break at DPI over 96

[drinkypoo]

This would be a good moment for some smart guys to start developing a beautiful fully-scalable windowing system for Linux!

It would also be a good moment for Apple to unfuck OSX and go back to resolution independence ala NeXTStep. I have read some rumors about that but nothing concrete.

Re:Applications that break at DPI over 96

[shutdown -p now]

This would be a good moment for some smart guys to start developing a beautiful fully-scalable windowing system for Linux!

A windowing system would scale windows - that's not the problem. The problem is scaling things inside those windows. That's the job of a widget toolkit.

And the two most popular widget toolkits for Linux - Gtk and Qt - both fully support resolution independence, and will scale with DPI if desired. Gnome actually enforces this out of the box, if I remember correctly, though of course that requires that it can obtain the real DPI value from the monitor.

Re:Applications that break at DPI over 96

[tepples]

Gnome actually enforces this out of the box, if I remember correctly

How do GTK and GNOME enforce resolution independence when image editing controls (e.g. in GIMP) aren't forced to be "not dot-for-dot"?

though of course that requires that it can obtain the real DPI value from the monitor.

Even if a widget toolkit can obtain the real DPI by querying the monitor's firmware, that won't help it query the distance to the eye, which is the other side of DPI. An "inch" when setting effective DPI for window systems isn't 0.0254 m; it's 1/28 of the viewing distance. This reference inch can be larger for a device placed far away from the eye (such as a TV) or smaller for one held closer to the eye (such as a tablet or phone). See the "nominal arm's length" in the definition of the CSS reference pixel.

Re:Applications that break at DPI over 96

[shutdown -p now]

By "enforces", I meant that it sets scale factor according to DPI, rather than just assuming 96dpi like Windows does. Stock widgets and layouts will pick it up, but, of course, custom code can always ignore it (that said, I don't know if Cairo perhaps defaults to scaling as well, so you'd need to explicitly opt out).

Re:Why Ubuntu?

[Anonymous Coward]

Obligatory.

On Regular Hardware

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux Drivers are no longer an issue. Don't reproduce the MS FUD.

Precision M6500

[flink]

If the M6500 isn't already a "developer-oriented" laptop, I'm not sure what is. Dual core i5 2.67 GHz CPU, supports up to 16GB ram, and a *matte* 1920x1200 display. The thing weighs about 15 lbs with the power adapter and gets about 45 min battery life. You'll obviously never match the power of a desktop workstation in a laptop form factor, but as a "desktop equivalent" it does a pretty good job.

Re:Precision M6500

[Lumpy]

Bump that to a quad core i7 and add in a real video card and you have a start.

It's why I carry a Toshiba Qosmio 18.5 inch. Because Dell cant deliver.

This!

[Anonymous Coward]

I cannot emphasis this point enough! Especially about the keyboard. How many times have you looked at a laptop and ruled it out because of shitty layout?

For me, there is no other laptop except Thinkpad T/X series (TrackPoint and navigation keyblock).

Linux is warranted

[tepples]

The difference between the "developer" laptops that come with Linux and the consumer laptops that come with Windows is that installing a Linux distribution on the developer laptop doesn't void the manufacturer's warranty. It isn't just that they ran sudo apt-get install build-essential before shipping.

Re:Linux is warranted

[Murdoch5]

Installing Linux doesn't void the warranty even if they say it does. I've sent back my notebook with Linux installed on it and they never said a word. In fact they didn't even format the notebook, they fixed it and returned it and I never had to deal with the fact I put Linux on it. I know they might say that installing Linux on the notebook voids the warranty but there just trying to use scare tactics, I have yet to talk with or find a person who wasn't granted technical service because Linux was installed.

Stylish?

[Lumpy]

I think they have no clue. Developers and engineers dont think the Fararri styling Toshiba laptops are cool, they think the spy looking Panasonic Toughbooks look cool.

In fact that is what I want. an affordable CF series toughbook that has a 1080p screen, nvidia video, and a quad core i7 with the ability to have 24 gig of ram.

But I dont want to pay $8900.00 for it.

Re:Bring back 4x3 screen ratio: more vertical scre

[Ndkchk]

Turn your monitor sideways?

Re:A developer oriented laptop with a user-friendl

[jo_ham]

But why?

It's not as if to be a good developer you have to "pass the test" of getting your computer to do what you want it to do. If it's user-friendly and runs everything you need surely that's a good thing, unless the point is to maintain some sort of dick-waving contest and high barrier to entry for "real" developers by dictating that they use obtuse hardware and software configurations that take ages to tweak to get to the the stage where you can do useful work.

Ease of use and developer productivity are not mutually exclusive.

Indeed

[Anonymous Coward]

Apples and Oranges etc. Did you know that there are several IDEs on Linux which can compete with VC++ ?

Here is a list:

Qt Creator

FLTK

Code::Blocks

KDevelop

Some quick googleing will get you at least 10 more Linux C++ IDEs. If you go a different route (e.g. Pascal, Smalltalk), you will have some more excellent options. VW Smalltalk is in my opionion still unbeaten when it comes to rapid application development. Think of modifying a method on a running app !
Also, MFC is more than shite, it is actually Nasty Poison wrapped up in fancy foil. You will realize being toxicated after digging deeper into your apps problems. The rest of Visual Studio might be OK, but MFC....

Re:Indeed

[19thNervousBreakdown]

Oh, I'm not going to claim that VS is the best IDE. It's my personal preference, in large part because it's the one I use at my job so I'm very comfortable with it, but I don't think I can make the claim that it's objectively better or anything, and I like other IDEs too. I was just saying VIM vs VS is a silly comparison, same as VIM vs Eclipse would be.

Re:Indeed

[knuthin]

Aptana Studio, Bluefish are pretty neat too.

Re:Indeed

[RedWizzard]

Did you know that there are several IDEs on Linux which can compete with VC++ ?

Why are there so many? It kinda makes me think they must all be deficient in one way or another. Not that I think VC is particularly good...

Re:Why Ubuntu?

[knuthin]

I know what you mean. If I were a .NET dev, there'd be no reason for me to look anywhere outside Visual Studio.

And wait. Feature X? There's a script that does just that. Now it's just a matter of time (a lot of it) you install it, and learn how to use it. :-)

If Dell Only

[Anonymous Coward]

..had a history of providing quality products&services. To put it very midly, they don't.

why only dell?

[CoderFool]

I have tried sony and hp also. The HP I had totally blew. My first personal laptop was a sony vaio 17 inch with 1920x1200 resolution and it was great. My next was an HP and it blew. It went lighter and cheaper and got one that was 1240x800 and had worsening hardware issues throughout its life (about 2 1/2 years before enough things broke and it became unusable). Never going to buy another HP. The next one I got was another sony and it was 1366x 768. It was a bit underpowered (cheap again-core 2 duo 2.2 ghz). But not a bad machine. 2 1/2 years later and it is still working fine. Sick of low power and low res laptops I went with a sony vaio z-series. customizable so I could get what I wanted instead of putting up with someone else's preselection. It's light (3 lbs w/o battery sheet and dock), has a 1920x1080 resolution (13.1 inch display), a core i7 2.8 ghz processor (turbo to 3.5). The battery sheet + internal battery gives me a total of 6-8 hours of battery life. SSD-HD, hdmi/vga out, 3 usb ports (one is usb 3), and 802.11n. The dock it came with had a graphics accelerator and an optical drive (I opted for the bluray burner). I expect this thing to last me at least 4 years and still be considered powerful enough that whole time (and working). A little pricey but worth it.

I wouldn't use ~~any~~ laptop as my primary

[gatesstillborg]

development machine, even if you put a gun to my head.

The only way I would use it would be with a docking station that gives me a normal keyboard, mouse, and a couple of desktop monitors, at which point it's basically a desktop. Laptop screens, k/b's, and mice are incomparable by default.

Re:Why Ubuntu?

[Spykk]

The summary specifically mentions web development. I'm a big fan of using visual studio for developing compiled software, but I'll take vim over visual studio any day of the week for web development.

Re:Why Ubuntu?

[s73v3r]

Not everyone develops in .NET, or on Windows. Granted, if I were a .NET guy, I'd be all over Visual Studio. But I'm not, so I use other stuff.

Re:Why Ubuntu?

[Tough Love]

If Visual Studio ever gets a functional implementation of C++11 please let me know.

Real developers install their own stuff anyways...

[Anonymous Coward]

So please, Dell... focus on the hardware. For example, fix the damn keyboards... our E6410's eat them like they're free.

13 is a bad number

[Anonymous Coward]

13 is a bad number

so they don't care if it fails.

this is such an idea.

Re:A developer oriented laptop with a user-friendl

[hobarrera]

Because users expect thing to work magically out-of-the-box and to never have to configure or install anything.
Developer expect to be able to tweak things to their liking (since they generally don't just happen to like *everything* as it is)., and to be able to set up a particular enviroment for their particular work case.

You can't serve both with the same OS, it's as simple as that.

Re:Bring back 4x3 screen ratio: more vertical scre

[aix tom]

Plus, the browser tabs. Having them at the side with TreeTab in FF is a HUGE benefit. You can have dozens of tabs open and still read all the captions.

(At least the ones I use as a developer, which are Plain-HTML-Text documentation. Dunno how the thing would crash left of right with a lot of Java Script or even Flash)

Who would pay for the IT preload?

[Anonymous Coward]

So, it's like the machine that IT is always trying to push on developers. The one where we either wipe it on day-1, or customize it beyond recognition.

The real developer box should just come with a blank hard-drive and a reasonable boot-order set in the BIOS. We'll take it from there.

"Preloaded with Developer Tools"

[Anonymous Coward]

That's a pretty shoddy and very brief list. >.>

As long as it has ...

[johnlcallaway]

... an ergonomic keyboard and dual monitors, I'm fine with it. Good luck in getting that into a small form factor for a reasonable amount of money.

Until then, I'll stick with my desktop at work and a second at home (that I use to remote desktop into work with.) I really don't want to sit at the kitchen table or on the couch and work for long periods. For short periods and support while I'm on vacation, I use my Samsung tablet and Pocket Cloud software to connect to my desktop at work.

Resolution, resolution, resolution!

[AliasMarlowe]

People often give me odd looks when I open my 17" Macbook Pro and boot to Windows, there is a reason it was rated "Best Windows laptop" a few years ago. It is usually high-end, lightweight, with a 1920x1200 display.

In fact, it's rather hard to find any laptop with a 1920x1200 screen these days. Some years ago, they were not so difficult to find; Apple appears to be one of the few left. Dell, Lenovo, Sony, Acer, Asus, Fujitsu ... none of them have a 1920x1200 laptop offering. One of the few on offer is the HP EliteBook Workstation which actually costs more than the MacBook and has a smaller disk!

The lack of decent resolution screens is the main reason I still have an 8-year-old Sony Vaio VGN-A117S laptop in service. It may only have a 1.7GHz Pentium M, 1GiB of RAM, and Radeon 9600 (sticker says 9700, diagnostics say 9600) but its 17" 1920x1200 screen is a beauty. Since we don't do any gaming, it's quite adequate as a kitchen PC with Xubuntu (email, browsing, music, movies, photos, documents, etc.). I'm not replacing it until I can get more than 1200 vertical pixels on a built-in display - even an iPad 3 type display would do. Pixels matter rather more than inches.

Re:Resolution, resolution, resolution!

[xaxa]

I use a laptop for development (I'd prefer a desktop, but apparently someone thought hi-spec laptops were a better idea). At work, it spends 99% of it's life plugged into a couple of large monitors.

AIUI, health and safety regulations in the UK effectively prohibit anyone spending lots of time hunched over a laptop screen:

Some of the design features on laptops and other portable computers can make them uncomfortable to use for long periods. Employees shouldn't routinely use laptops where full-sized equipment is available or should be provided with a laptop docking station so that they can work with a full-sized keyboard and screen.

http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?itemId=1073793590&type=RESOURCES

Re:Resolution, resolution, resolution!

[ADRA]

I've got an XPS-15 and it has a great 1980x1080 panel. If you're seriously considering a non-trivial outlay, it may be worth your time. The only thing is the laptop isn't super light, so not the best traveller.

Too Bad It's Ubuntu and not Archlinux or Debian...

[ilikenwf]

I'm not trolling here, but I'm sick of Ubuntu. I'd only install Ubuntu if I were converting my parents or grandparents to Linux.
Honestly, unless you're a n00b, Ubuntu and it's derivatives just suck by comparison to anything else. Don't comment if you haven't tried other distros.
Ubuntu is the Windows of the Linux world. It's heavyweight, full of useless daemons, and has the most awful window manager ever conceived. At the least, could they install Debian? It has some of the daemons and all, but it's not nearly as convoluted. It's also way more vanilla than Ubuntu...
Archlinux is nice because it's fast and contains only what the user wants. It takes more setup, but runs really fast and smooth...no frills unless you install, build, or add them yourself.
Then, for people who like to build the world, there's Gentoo and Slackware...
Dell could at least give users a choice here.

Old Hat

[burdickjp]

I'm typing this on a Dell Vostro V131. It came preloaded with Ubuntu. Dell has been selling Linux laptops and desktops for a LONG time. Where have you guys been?

Re:Too Bad It's Ubuntu and not Archlinux or Debian

[lahm]

Agreed. Arch or Debian would be a much better choice for anyone remotely serious about "development" - whatever that is taken to mean nowadays.

So, buy anything but the Mac for half price

[jbov]

So, buy an Acer or Toshiba notebook and save $1,000, get more RAM & a larger drive? Unless you just have more money than you know what do do with, and that 3/4" difference in width is worth an extra grand.

• Quad Core i7
• 750GB HD
• 6GB RAM
• 1600x900 resolution

$850.00

Alternately, get an ASUS, and get full 1920x1080 resolution that you won't get from the Mac Book Pro and still save.

• Quad Core i7
• 750 GB HD
• 16 GB RAM
• 1920x1080

$1529.99

Re:So, buy anything but the Mac for half price

[LDAPMAN]

Will either of them drive my two 27" 2560x1440 displays? My MacBook does.

RE: Dell Designing Developer Oriented Laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

You know, Dell never stopped selling laptops in 2010 with Ubuntu pre-installed. In fact, if you go to their site, click on small business, click on laptops, and then choose FreeDOS and Linux under Operating Systems, there are at least 3 options there at any given time. Dell has never let us down.

MS Support VPC VMs for VirtualBox

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft supported VPC VMs with various flavors of their browsers.
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=11575

Though for OSX, following steps show how to use these VPC images in Virtual Box. There, you have a full testing environment.
http://osxdaily.com/2011/09/04/internet-explorer-for-mac-ie7-ie8-ie-9-free/

Yeah... right...

[Anonymous Coward]

On the day that Dell actually make a computer that doesn't fall apart the instant the warrenty expires, I'll believe they may be able to make a decent developers laptop. Also, Ubuntu? Really?

I don't want Unity or Gnome 3 either

[msobkow]

Speaking of shovelware, are they going to default to a desktop that is actually useful for developers, or are they going to stick with the Unity or Gnome 3 "defaults" that are designed for "regular" users? The key issue I have with both Unity and Gnome 3 is the tendency to re-focus an existing window instead of launching a new one; as a developer I often need many copies of the same application running, especially terminals and editors.

Or is there some way to change the default behaviour of Unity and Gnome 3 to open new copies of applications instead of bringing the already running copies to the foreground?

Re:I don't want Unity or Gnome 3 either

[msobkow]

P.S. There probably is an easy way to get the behaviour I'd want. But I wasn't interested in spending any more time learning how to work around the interface. To me, a good interface is natural and makes the work easier; if I have to use keyboard chords and right mouse menus and such to perform common activities, it's a bad interface for my needs.

Laptops don't cut it ...

[Barbara, not Barbie]

Not unless you can tack on at least 2 separate large screens (and just use the laptop screen for things like running email in the background - even a 17" laptop screen really is crappy for developing on).

By the time you also add a fill-size external keyboard and mouse, the benefits the laptop has over a regular desktop are noise (which is not to be under-estimated) and power consumption (portability? USB keys, external hds, and let's be honest, you're an idiot begging for a mugging or a laptop-killing drop if you're programming on the subway). However, the desktop wins on storage (both # of disks and size of each disk) and ram.

Better off just to buy a smallish desktop semi-portable "cube" case and low-noise PS, stuff it with laptop hds and a motherboard capable of handling 64 or 128 gigs of ram, and load it up with VMs for the various OSes you'll be using (because Ubuntu by itself won't cut it for most people).

Re:Laptops don't cut it ...

[LDAPMAN]

Thats another great thing about the 17" MacBook Pro. It will drive two 27" Thunderbolt monitors at 2560x1440 while still using the internal display. It's pretty amazing.

Pizza Oven.... Huh!?

[Tim12s]

How the hell are they going to fit a pizza oven in a laptop?

Where are they going to fit the coke drip?

Sounds like a winner!

[bryan1945]

How can you go wrong with a simple and extremely stylish laptop? Dell, the future of retarded computing. "Huh, what's that? They're already there? My bad."

Torrent!

[Anonymous Coward]

You trust me, don't you?

magnet:?xt=urn:btih:697d87d6d978e03e32e347a0744d8e08c66e3718&dn=sputnik-iso-20120502-1.iso&tr=http%3A%2F%2Fdenis.stalker.h3q.com%3A6969%2Fannounce

Re:Torrent!

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyway, I can't get it to work in VirtualBox.

RAM

[Anonymous Coward]

Only 2GB???

And if you try to get one of the more beefed up machines it has all the "windoze" crap attached!

Thanks, but no thank you...

Re:Bring back 4x3 screen ratio: more vertical scre

[Patch86]

Indeed, that is one of the very few things Unity did right. Putting the taskbar on the left side of the screen by default was an eye-opener for me in the post-widescreen world. I know I could have moved the taskbar over there myself at any point...but it just never occurred to me.

And you can already get it with Slackware!

[Arker]

http://emperorlinux.com/mfgr/dell/rhino/

Never had much use for Ubuntu personally, but a rhino running slack would be a very nice machine.

Another complete waste of time...

[Swift Kick]

So after you go through the bullshit in the link, what they're trying to come up with is a MacBook Air-equivalent with 'custom developer profiles'?
They already have a number of laptops that are essentially perfect for 'web development'. Some of the others here commented on the Latitude series, etc. I'd like to offer my own personal example.
I have a Dell Precision M6400. I bought it 2 years ago off the Dell outlet site for about $2k. Shortly afterwards, I bumped up the specs a little, so here are the current specs:

- 17" screen with 1920x1200 resolution
- Core 2 Due T9800 @2.93GHz
- 16GB DDR3 RAM
- Nvidia Quadro FX 2700M
- 2x Samsung 256GB SSD drives in RAID-1

I run Windows 7 Professional 64-bit on it as my main OS. It's the perfect foundation for VMware Workstation 7.1, which I use to run my virtual machines. I have one the following VMs running daily:

- Ubuntu 10.04LTS server - for testing
- Ubuntu 10.04LST desktop - my main work environment
- CentOS 5.8 - for testing
- "Unnamed storage" vendor virtual cluster with 3 virtual nodes - also for testing

I run *everything* on this one box. VMware gives me the flexibility to try new releases, test against newer packages, etc. Need to test something else? Fire up another VM.
What better self-contained development environment could you ask for? No MacBook Pro or Air could beat that, except for weight (~8lbs on the Dell vs ~6.5lbs on the Macbook, and almost nothing on the Air).

This Project Sputnik is a waste of time for Dell, and they should fire the gullible idiots that fell for the bullshit fed to them by Stephen O'Grady.
Dell would be better off by just focusing on either standardizing the hardware they use across their laptop lines, or providing updated drives for the hardware they use.

very subtle.

[retchdog]

sputnik=communist=linux. very subtle there, dell.

Close-out HP (WebOS branded) laptop rules

[Anonymous Coward]

So I was in Office Max getting ink for my printer, and they had a close-out HP laptop (WebOS branding all over it) for a netbook price. I got it just to have a Windows box to test with. But it rules the world. I can't believe how much I like it. I stuck with Win7 because I'd rather use it with Cygwin than have anything to do with Unity. This little thing runs VS2010 fine. Connects fine to my VirtualBox instance of Win 2008 Server, and my Linux Samba stuff. I put Emacs on it, and it's perfect.

So what's the advantage of the Dell laptop?

Re:Close-out HP (WebOS branded) laptop rules

[jedidiah]

Between Cygwin and Unity, Cygwin is by far has the greater level of suckage. You would be better of just running Linux in a VM if you are that irrational about Unity.

Calling Cygwin "perfect" is overselling it by quite a bit.

16:9 aspect ratio

[jbov]

Kind of sad since my very first laptop (a Dell) had 1600x1200 resolution

What is sad? A change in aspect ratio? It is a move towards the 16:9 aspect ratio. The end result is greater horizontal resolution, less vertical resolution, and a greater number of pixels overall than your 4:3 ratio 1600x1200 screen.

Re:16:9 aspect ratio

[hxnwix]

Kind of sad since my very first laptop (a Dell) had 1600x1200 resolution

What is sad? A change in aspect ratio? It is a move towards the 16:9 aspect ratio. The end result is greater horizontal resolution, less vertical resolution, and a greater number of pixels overall than your 4:3 ratio 1600x1200 screen.

IT HAS LESS VERTICAL RESOLUTION. 10 years later, less vertical resolution. That's what is sad.

Re:16:9 aspect ratio

[RedWizzard]

What is sad? A change in aspect ratio? It is a move towards the 16:9 aspect ratio. The end result is greater horizontal resolution, less vertical resolution, and a greater number of pixels overall than your 4:3 ratio 1600x1200 screen.

What is sad is that 10 years ago the top laptop screen resolution was 2 megapixels and now it's still only 2 megapixels, in a format that's worse for every application except watching video. What's sad is that the 9.7" screen in the new iPad is better than anything you can get in a laptop.

Re:16:9 aspect ratio

[jbov]

9.7" screen in the new iPad is better than anything you can get in a laptop

Except that it is 9.7" and held closely to your face in order to see anything at that resolution.

in a format that's worse for every application except watching video

So then what do you propose? Do you want a 1:1, 3:4, or 9:16 aspect ratio? If so, then which sacrifice are you willing to make?

1) Have a larger screen, and therefore a larger laptop.
2) Get rid of the numeric keypad.
3) Move the numeric keypad to above or below the keyboard or touchpad.
4) Keep the same same screen height and make the text unreadable at that resolution and the average notebook viewing distance.

If there are alternatives, I'd jump right on board with having more vertical resolution.

Re:Bring back 4x3 screen ratio: more vertical scre

[Arker]

where they used to be, decades ago

Where mine has always been. Even Windows makes that easy - grab the taskbar, drag it widdershins a quarter circle and you have the taskbar vertical on the left hand side like it should be.

Strangely enough, Gnome decided at some point in the distant past when I was still occasionally trying to use it to make that impossible. One of the several reasons I have had no desire to even look at it for ages. A free software desktop that is actually WORSE than Windows? No thank you. Windowmaker, on the other hand, rocks.

Re:A developer oriented laptop with a user-friendl

[jedidiah]

If any of that stuff causes you to waste any significant amount of time then you seriously need to reconsider the career you've chosen for yourself.

I became an Ubuntu convert because a 6.x release "just worked" on a random Dell laptop.

Re: Dell Designing Developer Oriented Laptop

[jedidiah]

Dell never stopped hiding it's pathetic selection of cheap crappy underpowered machines.

Dell let us down big time.

You're far better off seeking out a Linux vendor.

Re:Bring back 4x3 screen ratio: more vertical scre

[cpm99352]

I remember seeing Wang terminals in the early 80's that were basically 8 1/2 x 11 resolution, for secretaries.

30 years later, I'm baffled that the focus is strictly on playing movies, as opposed to replicating paper.

Naturally, Xerox's PARC developed the idea: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Alto

What makes me happy.

[CherniyVolk]

Years ago, I spent a ton of cash for essentially a Alienware OEM laptop that came pre-installed with a version of RedHat. It was from NextComputing who at the time offered portable UNIX solutions like the SPARCbook et al. Being niche market, it was pretty expensive but since it came per-installed with Linux I was on board.

The pre-installed version of linux only really served the purpose (as it would have even if it were Windows) of making sure everything "worked"; because after I felt satisfied with the hardware aspects of the machine, I installed Gentoo. I basically paid a lot of money to increment a number for one businessman to show another businessman; but it's the principle of what that number stands for right?

I really no longer care if the market has "numbers" indicating demand for Linux. Apparently Microsoft simply manoeuvres itself to where they get credit for each unit any ways diminishing the value of any alternative market evidence.

So the only thing I want is for manufacturers to give me the the option, with price reduction to reflect the fact, to purchase the machine without an Operating System. Currently anyone with a business account with Dell can do just this, my company does this all the time for any server, desktop or laptop we buy from Dell and all of our machines are Dell. However, I'm not a business and I want to be able to purchase from their consumer line with the same privilege.

Read Dell's own support forums website

[Anonymous Coward]

Go over to Dell's own support forums website and search the laptop forums for XPS USB 3 problems. You'll find tons of posts complaining about the Renesas USB 3.0 host controller and drivers. I was looking and the XPS 15 and XPS 17 and what I found in those forums chased me away from Dell and I bought an HP Envy 17 instead. It isn't perfect either, but at least my USB 3.0 external hard drive works fast and flawless with the HP.

Will Sputnik's pre-installed user be named Laika?!

[D4C5CE]

Hopefully not to meet a similar premature fate (in spite of the track record)...

Ubuntu remix

[horza]

With the number of Ubuntu varients like Mythbuntu and Mediabuntu (ignoring different DEs for now) having a Webuntu not actually a bad idea. It would be nice to drop to the command line from a fresh install and just type "pip install x". Or have a nice system settings menu where I can click and add "django" running "nginx" on port "8001" then click again to add "wordpress" running "apache/wsgi" on port "8002" etc. Have Firebug installed in Firefox by default. Double-clicking a HTML file should open it in an editor, not web browser.

Not sure if it would gain any traction unless Dell was a hands-off sponsor though.

Phillip.

Use Coreboot

[Malvineous]

Can't really call it a developer laptop if said developer is unable to customise their own BIOS code. I'm still waiting to buy a machine I can use for development work that can also run Coreboot.

Decent Wireless Card

[andrew3]

I hope Dell puts in a decent wireless card, that works in all GNU/Linux distributions. My current Dell laptop has an Intel WiFi card and it sucks. I have to use non-free firmware and even on Windows it behaves weird.

One of these would be great: Realtek, Ralink, Amtel, ADMTek, Atheros.

Manufacturer-provided Linux == FAIL

[Anonymous Coward]

In the age of the dawn of netbooks we learned the only way to get a proper Linux laptop is to install stock Linux on a machine not meant for it. When manufacturers pre-load Linux, they:

  * fork the original distribution and point you at their package servers, which, like Android phones, they fail to keep updated once they've shipped the model.

  * install retarded wallpaper and branded bloatware

  * use blob-based hardware from "partners" because, since they control the whole distribution, it's easier for them to integrate the blobs than it is for normal Linux. The blobs don't work as well as non-blob hardware---they do it because the blob hardware is cheaper. This means,

        + They change hardware and blobs without telling you. Since they control the distribution, they can.

        + When you reinstall stock Ubuntu instead of $mfgr Linux if not before, you end up with a laptop pessimized for Linux compared to average Intel reference designs, instead of the Linux-optimized hardware you might have assumed you were getting if not for this track record of netbook disasters.

In short, by trying to do better "integrated out-of-the-box UX", they will do worse. It needs to be a powerful company that's primarily a Linux company, not a hardware-for-microsoft company, that makes the Linux-optimized laptop. Otherwise we should stick with intel reference designs and keep buying thinkpads.

There may be other patterns that work, like RHEL "certification" where a Linux company can influence and veto the Dell design. But any "partnership" with Dell in the lead is something I want to stay well away from. wild-west is better than their "helping".

But I thought PCs were dead

[XahXhaX]

So you guys aren't coding on your iPads and Android phones?

Who cares about the built in screen?

[NoGenius]

When was the last time you saw a developer without 1 or 2 large external monitors? Airplanes and sleepy meetings...thats all the good any internal display is for no matter what the resolution.

WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

Obviously they have no idea how software developers work

I'll start with 17" full-hd screen, 500G SSD + 1T HDD, and a minimal of 8GB RAM.....

13 inches?! I never had a complaint with my 5"...

[VortexCortex]

Developing on dual 30" screens is certainly nicer, but it you can't develop on a 13" screen, then you're not terribly effective

Effective? What good is having all those inches if you can't use them all at once?! There are limits to human physiology, you animal! You'd have to take a step back to even use the thing. Five inches is all you need.

I developed software on a 23Lb Osborne1 'portable' with a screen 5" across having 52 columns and 24 rows of green monochrome text. And I Liked It! Didn't have to move my eyes to see a thing.

Now, excuse me while I lug my lawn away from your vicinity.

Re:Bring back 4x3 screen ratio: more vertical scre

[RedWizzard]

Turn it to the side...

Kidding of course, hard to do it with a laptop anyways, but while I was working on a long report recently I decided to rotate my 19" monitor and it was great.

That's why I run 2 19" monitors for my desktop, one landscape, one portrait. The portrait orientation is great for anything involving reading or writing. Landscape is great for games and things like spreadsheets, Photoshop, etc. Best of both worlds...

Wrong Focus

[jevring]

They are going about this all wrong. A developer laptop isn't one that comes loaded with a particular OS, it's a laptop that has *all the keys* on the keyboard that a developer might need. This means native keys for page up, page down, home, end, insert and delete. Regardless of whatever else is going on with the laptop, it *cannot* be labeled a developer laptop without these keys. It simply can't.

Ubuntu ? Urgh.

[Anonymous Coward]

Only a complete idiot would want Ubuntu on anything. Unity sucks balls. Ubuntu is a dead distro.

Peace.

Ubuntu, for web developers, not likely

[musicmaker]

Two simple questions:

Does it run Photoshop?
Does it run Word?

And two more for fun

Can it print?
Can it scan?

The answer to the first two will be no unless it's a) running Windows, b) running OS X. Given that Ubuntu is neither of the above, then it's a no.

Open Office isn't Word compatible. It's somewhat Word compatible. Gimp isn't Photoshop, it just isn't. As for the latter, last I checked, printing and scanning on Linux was pretty bad, scanning worst of all.

People will send you PDFs, Word Docs, Excel spreadsheets and Photoshop files, maybe even Illustrator. If you can't deal with them, then you can't do business with them. It's that simple. If you do most of it in a VM, it doesn't count. You might as well just run OS X and have your cake and eat it.

Most of the people who want to run Linux that badly, are already running Linux.

Re:Ubuntu, for web developers, not likely

[Anonymous Coward]

The answer to the first two will be no unless it's a) running Windows, b) running OS X.

Wrong. Photoshop CS5 and Word 2007 both run acceptably with WINE.

Re:Ubuntu, for web developers, not likely

[musicmaker]

Define "acceptable". Word 2007 in my day-to-day is not acceptable for instance. I'd be interested to see how quirky they are in this configuration too. I'd kinda believe that Photoshop might run in WINE as Adobe are notoriously bad at keeping their software abreast of the latest APIs. It's still an awful lot of faff to do it either way. You CAN do a lot of things, it's just wether it's worth the time and effort. And don't tell me how you can set up wine and photoshop in 10 minutes, for those of us who haven't done it (recently), it's probably not gonna take ten minutes.

Beyond Photoshop and Word are a whole bunch of less critical stuff too. Some of which many folks don't care about, some of which many folks do. Things like iMovie, Logic, Aperture, iTunes, Safari, IE, Lightroom, Skype (who know if this will keep working anywhere though) and others. This is outside the scope of my original point I admit, and you may have a reasonable point with WINE here. Last time I used WINE it couldn't run much of anything, at least not well.

Track Record?

[tapspace]

It seems like Dell should have a good track record. They are tried and failed with linux and now they're getting back in the saddle. I, for one, will not fault them for that.

I see what you did there

[Anonymous Coward]

This is a great marketing move by Canonical. What they are doing is establishing a distribution channel for pre-installed Linux computers under the banner of "developer" computers. What this lets them do is sell a large volume of "developer" computers to enterprises in support of their "developers" without having to do the hard sell of Linux to the enterprise. The demand is there, the supply is apparently being worked out, but what is missing is the enterprise buy-in. This move gives Canonical a way to get the enterprise pointy-hair buy-in without having to bear the cross that is overtly selling "Linux" to the pointy-hairs.

That is to say, pointy-hairs support developers doing "developer" things, but not "Linux" things. Development they can give themselves an illusion of understanding. Linux, hey cannot.

Re:A developer oriented laptop with a user-friendl

[chris.alex.thomas]

you're so very very wrong, linux on the desktop is an awful time waster, technical ability isn't a criteria in being "able to use a mouse on a graphical screen" since windows 95 was able to do that with a better success rate than the linux desktop is able to, even being 15 years later.....

just because _you_ can do something, doesn't mean other people can do it just as fast, other people have to read, learn and be involved in how to configure x.org from 10 different tutorials, one of which partially works, but isn't the entire solution. thats a programmer, can you imagine a graphic designer who doesn't really know what most of this stuff means?

Yes

[jbov]

Yes